Re: [MBZ] OT: Servers
> > Why not a NAS? I wanted: low power time machine target easy/familiar to administer It's also running our web server, and is a mail relay now that gmail has cut off the ability of my primary 10.2.8 machine to contact it. Because it's 24x7 and running cron, it's also a candidate to take over the duties of my 27yo DNIX sprinkler and outdoor lights controller if it should ever die beyond my ability to resurrect it. I _have_ all that with the G4. I was just hoping for a nice upgrade. But so far the benefit would not offset the increased operating costs. It's been an interesting journey, though. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Servers
Why not a NAS? Maybe you are doing really cool stuff that needs massive amounts of processing… clay > On May 16, 2017, at 6:57 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes > wrote: > > I have just about exhausted all attempts to turn my $50 Mac Pro 1,1 into a > suitable replacement for the G4 Sawtooth that is our current file/web > server. Because it's 24x7 the power draw is a big issue. The G4 is > 35-40W, headless, but the best I can beat out of the MP is 97W. That's > with removing one of the two CPU's, putting in a very slow CPU (1.6GHz > L5113) for the other one, cutting the RAM to the bone, removing the video > and even the DVD drive. I even tried putting in 533MHz RAM, which made no > difference. The biggest power users are the Northbridge and the FB-DIMM > RAM. Unless I can find a way to actually underclock the thing I think the > project is a no go. Unless you can have it asleep most of the time, and > wake on service requests over Ethernet? > I hear that's theoretically possible, but maybe in practice it stinks? > > -- Jim > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Servers
Going to need knowledge on that flash to 2,1 thing soon. On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 12:38 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > We have two MP 1,1 units that I flashed to 2,1 firmware, into which I > installed 2x4-core 3GHz CPU's and HD4870 video cards and 16GB of > RAM, running El Capitan. They run hot, of course, as in up to 350W or so, > but only when somebody is doing something, which is not many hours in a > week. They are only two of the many Time Machine clients of the G4. > (There are also 3 Macbook Pro laptops aimed at it, and the old G5 quad > that my son is using. So that makes for seven total Time Machine targets > currently on the G4's RAID. There are two inactive targets that I have not > yet removed, the retired G5's.) All three of the cheese graters have 30" > monitors on them. None of this stuff is any newer than 10 years old, and > is quite affordable, and running software that's only a bit over a year > old. (Except for the G5 quad, and the G4 itself.) > > You can't predict when somebody will want some computing done, and I want > the machines to be in charge of their own backup schedules, which they > currently are. So we can't put the server on a timer. It's also our > personal web site server, so there's that too. > > Everybody always says that you have to put RAM sticks in the MP's in > pairs. Turns out you don't. The proposed server is running happily with > only one 4GB stick in it. I don't know if that slows it down, I don't > care. If I could downclock the FSB I would, just to save power. I think > it's the single biggest suck in the unit, measured with my fingers. > There's no way that it wouldn't be significantly faster than the G4, no > matter what I could do to it. > > -- Jim > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > -- "Das beste oder nichts." - *Gottlieb Daimler* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Servers
We have two MP 1,1 units that I flashed to 2,1 firmware, into which I installed 2x4-core 3GHz CPU's and HD4870 video cards and 16GB of RAM, running El Capitan. They run hot, of course, as in up to 350W or so, but only when somebody is doing something, which is not many hours in a week. They are only two of the many Time Machine clients of the G4. (There are also 3 Macbook Pro laptops aimed at it, and the old G5 quad that my son is using. So that makes for seven total Time Machine targets currently on the G4's RAID. There are two inactive targets that I have not yet removed, the retired G5's.) All three of the cheese graters have 30" monitors on them. None of this stuff is any newer than 10 years old, and is quite affordable, and running software that's only a bit over a year old. (Except for the G5 quad, and the G4 itself.) You can't predict when somebody will want some computing done, and I want the machines to be in charge of their own backup schedules, which they currently are. So we can't put the server on a timer. It's also our personal web site server, so there's that too. Everybody always says that you have to put RAM sticks in the MP's in pairs. Turns out you don't. The proposed server is running happily with only one 4GB stick in it. I don't know if that slows it down, I don't care. If I could downclock the FSB I would, just to save power. I think it's the single biggest suck in the unit, measured with my fingers. There's no way that it wouldn't be significantly faster than the G4, no matter what I could do to it. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Servers
Gross. Sucks down power, hard to configure, annoying to keep running. We replaced a lot of those. Once a customer saw what it took to keep an Xserve RAID running an Avid sale wasn't long in the future. I bet you can get old ones for cheap. -Curt From: Ed Booher via Mercedes To: Mercedes Discussion List Cc: Ed Booher Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Servers Old school XServe RAID: http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/xserve/specs/xserve_raid_sfp.html Need a fiber card, but it holds 14 drives. On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 11:37 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > Primary service is SATA RAID. For the Time Machine backups from all the > other computers. > > -- Jim > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > -- "Das beste oder nichts." - *Gottlieb Daimler* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Servers
Need to factor in the cost of the computer. If the mini drew say 45w vs 90w the difference would take a long time to pay for... -Curt From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes To: Mercedes List Cc: Dan Penoff Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Servers Best way to deal with this in my mind is get a Mac Mini and set it up as a server. If it’s just being used as a server why would you need all the other stuff like video, external drives, etc.? There are later model Minis that are designed specifically for this purpose. -D > On May 17, 2017, at 10:04 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes > wrote: > > Can a MacBook serve as a server? > Does it draw less power than the desktops? > Or does an external drive defeat the power savings? > > Mitch > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Servers
> > Best thing about using a laptop as a server? Built in UPS. But not as good a UPS as the surplus $35 2kVA unit that the computer cluster is running from, off an external 48V 75AH battery bank. (Which was somewhat more pricey!) And the laptop's battery would not run the external drives in RAID that I would require. I was aiming at 8+ hours of backup time, so that I could get home from work and power things down in an orderly fashion when the power goes out. Old school XServe RAID... it holds 14 drives. Two is sufficient! -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Servers
Hah! I used to have two XServes and an XServe RAID with a full complement of drives in a rack in my garage. Too bad I didn’t live up north, as it would have provided enough heat to keep the garage nice and toasty in the winter. Got them as surplus from a local private school that closed. Had they not been “please take them away for us” cheap I wouldn’t have bothered because they were gross overkill. -D > On May 17, 2017, at 11:53 AM, Ed Booher via Mercedes > wrote: > > Old school XServe RAID: > http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/xserve/specs/xserve_raid_sfp.html > Need a fiber card, but it holds 14 drives. > > On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 11:37 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > >> Primary service is SATA RAID. For the Time Machine backups from all the >> other computers. >> >> -- Jim >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> > > > -- > "Das beste oder nichts." - *Gottlieb Daimler* > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Servers
The G4 is doing a great job, and fills the bill. It probably draws less power than a laptop with two external drives in RAID. It's just a bit fragile and fiddly, mechanically, and slow when administering it. I was just wanting to use those drive sleds for quick swapping as I rotate the spare drives into the RAID, for off-site backup. Defense in depth! Last time I needed to rebuild the RAID I pulled them and put them in the cheese grater. The rebuild went a lot smoother and quicker that way. The G4 also has been stripped of all unnecessary peripherals, and runs headless. I have a spare unit, in case it should die. The only thing I don't have in spare is a PCI SATA card. The two I have were cheap PC units, but I had to flash them, which was a gigantic pain. They're both 2-drive cards, but if you use both connectors the HD speed drops to more like floppy disk speeds. Unusable. So I'm using two cards. The MP would be drama-free, and Just Work. But that 24x7 power penalty... -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Servers
Old school XServe RAID: http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/xserve/specs/xserve_raid_sfp.html Need a fiber card, but it holds 14 drives. On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 11:37 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > Primary service is SATA RAID. For the Time Machine backups from all the > other computers. > > -- Jim > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > -- "Das beste oder nichts." - *Gottlieb Daimler* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Servers
Best thing about using a laptop as a server? Built in UPS. EdB On Wed, May 17, 2017 at 10:04 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > Can a MacBook serve as a server? > Does it draw less power than the desktops? > Or does an external drive defeat the power savings? > > Mitch > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > -- "Das beste oder nichts." - *Gottlieb Daimler* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Servers
Primary service is SATA RAID. For the Time Machine backups from all the other computers. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Servers
Best way to deal with this in my mind is get a Mac Mini and set it up as a server. If it’s just being used as a server why would you need all the other stuff like video, external drives, etc.? There are later model Minis that are designed specifically for this purpose. -D > On May 17, 2017, at 10:04 AM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes > wrote: > > Can a MacBook serve as a server? > Does it draw less power than the desktops? > Or does an external drive defeat the power savings? > > Mitch > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Servers
Can a MacBook serve as a server? Does it draw less power than the desktops? Or does an external drive defeat the power savings? Mitch ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Servers
I was thinking this has Raspberry PI written all over it until I saw TimeMachine... Would a laptop not be a better choice power wise? -Curt From: Ed Booher via Mercedes To: Mercedes Discussion List Cc: Ed Booher Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2017 8:08 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT: Servers Just bought a 1,1 that is wheeling its way to me as we speak. (From Michigan to Indiana with an estimated arrival of Tuesday, so maybe it is walking.) I plan to go full on the other direction and strip down the system I call beast currently running 2 quad core xeons for eight cores and 16 GB of RAM. Maybe I'll even put in a second CD drive. I'll take all that power you aren't using. Seriously though, I wouldn't enable wake on LAN if you are going to use the thing as any type of server. Either it will never sleep, because it is receiving constant hellos from the rest of the network, or it will take *seconds* to fully wake each time and your initial request to the server may time out as it waits for it to wake, then you have to try reaching out again, which would be annoying in my opinion. What is the power draw of the equivalent Xeon XServe? Those were designed ground up to be headless servers. EdB On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 9:57 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > I have just about exhausted all attempts to turn my $50 Mac Pro 1,1 into a > suitable replacement for the G4 Sawtooth that is our current file/web > server. Because it's 24x7 the power draw is a big issue. The G4 is > 35-40W, headless, but the best I can beat out of the MP is 97W. That's > with removing one of the two CPU's, putting in a very slow CPU (1.6GHz > L5113) for the other one, cutting the RAM to the bone, removing the video > and even the DVD drive. I even tried putting in 533MHz RAM, which made no > difference. The biggest power users are the Northbridge and the FB-DIMM > RAM. Unless I can find a way to actually underclock the thing I think the > project is a no go. Unless you can have it asleep most of the time, and > wake on service requests over Ethernet? > I hear that's theoretically possible, but maybe in practice it stinks? > > -- Jim > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > -- "Das beste oder nichts." - *Gottlieb Daimler* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Servers
Any of the cheese graters are going to suck power while running. You’ve got a lot of hardware in there that needs the juice. It won’t be any better with an enterprise grade Windoze server unless it’s something really late model. 100W at idle is pretty typical of these machines. Dialing down the peripherals, downgrading processors, all for naught. And you can’t have it sleeping as a server. No one is going to be sending “magic packets" to wake it up. If you want to do your own hosting, you’re going to have to bite the bullet and have a machine that’s up 100% of the time. I loved my MP 1,1 and found it to be an awesome workstation. I’ve got a 3,1 now tricked out with 32GB of RAM, four 1TB hard drives, an ATI 5870, two optical drives and a 480GB SSD for the boot drive off the internal (extra) SATA port. Sure, it can suck the juice when I’m doing something like ripping video, but for the most part it’s pretty quiet and runs well below 10% utilization under most circumstances. -D > On May 17, 2017, at 8:08 AM, Ed Booher via Mercedes > wrote: > > Just bought a 1,1 that is wheeling its way to me as we speak. (From > Michigan to Indiana with an estimated arrival of Tuesday, so maybe it is > walking.) I plan to go full on the other direction and strip down the > system I call beast currently running 2 quad core xeons for eight cores and > 16 GB of RAM. Maybe I'll even put in a second CD drive. I'll take all that > power you aren't using. > > Seriously though, I wouldn't enable wake on LAN if you are going to use the > thing as any type of server. Either it will never sleep, because it is > receiving constant hellos from the rest of the network, or it will take > *seconds* to fully wake each time and your initial request to the server > may time out as it waits for it to wake, then you have to try reaching out > again, which would be annoying in my opinion. What is the power draw of the > equivalent Xeon XServe? Those were designed ground up to be headless > servers. > > EdB > > On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 9:57 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > >> I have just about exhausted all attempts to turn my $50 Mac Pro 1,1 into a >> suitable replacement for the G4 Sawtooth that is our current file/web >> server. Because it's 24x7 the power draw is a big issue. The G4 is >> 35-40W, headless, but the best I can beat out of the MP is 97W. That's >> with removing one of the two CPU's, putting in a very slow CPU (1.6GHz >> L5113) for the other one, cutting the RAM to the bone, removing the video >> and even the DVD drive. I even tried putting in 533MHz RAM, which made no >> difference. The biggest power users are the Northbridge and the FB-DIMM >> RAM. Unless I can find a way to actually underclock the thing I think the >> project is a no go. Unless you can have it asleep most of the time, and >> wake on service requests over Ethernet? >> I hear that's theoretically possible, but maybe in practice it stinks? >> >> -- Jim >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> > > > -- > "Das beste oder nichts." - *Gottlieb Daimler* > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT: Servers
Just bought a 1,1 that is wheeling its way to me as we speak. (From Michigan to Indiana with an estimated arrival of Tuesday, so maybe it is walking.) I plan to go full on the other direction and strip down the system I call beast currently running 2 quad core xeons for eight cores and 16 GB of RAM. Maybe I'll even put in a second CD drive. I'll take all that power you aren't using. Seriously though, I wouldn't enable wake on LAN if you are going to use the thing as any type of server. Either it will never sleep, because it is receiving constant hellos from the rest of the network, or it will take *seconds* to fully wake each time and your initial request to the server may time out as it waits for it to wake, then you have to try reaching out again, which would be annoying in my opinion. What is the power draw of the equivalent Xeon XServe? Those were designed ground up to be headless servers. EdB On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 9:57 PM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > I have just about exhausted all attempts to turn my $50 Mac Pro 1,1 into a > suitable replacement for the G4 Sawtooth that is our current file/web > server. Because it's 24x7 the power draw is a big issue. The G4 is > 35-40W, headless, but the best I can beat out of the MP is 97W. That's > with removing one of the two CPU's, putting in a very slow CPU (1.6GHz > L5113) for the other one, cutting the RAM to the bone, removing the video > and even the DVD drive. I even tried putting in 533MHz RAM, which made no > difference. The biggest power users are the Northbridge and the FB-DIMM > RAM. Unless I can find a way to actually underclock the thing I think the > project is a no go. Unless you can have it asleep most of the time, and > wake on service requests over Ethernet? > I hear that's theoretically possible, but maybe in practice it stinks? > > -- Jim > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > -- "Das beste oder nichts." - *Gottlieb Daimler* ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] OT: Servers
I have just about exhausted all attempts to turn my $50 Mac Pro 1,1 into a suitable replacement for the G4 Sawtooth that is our current file/web server. Because it's 24x7 the power draw is a big issue. The G4 is 35-40W, headless, but the best I can beat out of the MP is 97W. That's with removing one of the two CPU's, putting in a very slow CPU (1.6GHz L5113) for the other one, cutting the RAM to the bone, removing the video and even the DVD drive. I even tried putting in 533MHz RAM, which made no difference. The biggest power users are the Northbridge and the FB-DIMM RAM. Unless I can find a way to actually underclock the thing I think the project is a no go. Unless you can have it asleep most of the time, and wake on service requests over Ethernet? I hear that's theoretically possible, but maybe in practice it stinks? -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
