Re: [MBZ] OT - Calrod heater element
yup looks like a block heater. Mountain Man via Mercedes wrote on 4/2/19 2:57 PM: tin wrote: did image make it thru the rigorous OkieBenz review? tin ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - Calrod heater element
Compare it to a MB block heater. Is it between 450W and 750 Watt? Mountain Man via Mercedes wrote on 4/2/19 10:39 AM: tin wrote: Attached is picture of Heater Element... ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - Calrod heater element
Yes - very gratifying. On Tue, Apr 2, 2019 at 3:58 PM Mountain Man via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > tin wrote: > > tin wrote: > > > Try again... > > did image make it thru the rigorous OkieBenz review? > tin > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - Calrod heater element
tin wrote: > tin wrote: > Try again... did image make it thru the rigorous OkieBenz review? tin ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - Calrod heater element
Cut the old one open and tell us what you find --- On Mon, Apr 1, 2019 at 11:35 AM Mountain Man via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > Another question? > What do these heater elements look like inside? Is it a single > straight conductor clay-packed inside tube? Is it a spiral shape > conductor clay-packed inside tube? What is the difference in size of > the conductor between 230v and 110v? > Thanks > tin > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > -- OK Don *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - Calrod heater element
Another question? What do these heater elements look like inside? Is it a single straight conductor clay-packed inside tube? Is it a spiral shape conductor clay-packed inside tube? What is the difference in size of the conductor between 230v and 110v? Thanks tin ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - Calrod heater element
On Mon, 25 Mar 2019 13:35:44 -0500 Mountain Man via Mercedes wrote: > Craig wrote: > > So a heater rated at 4 times the desired power on 230 V will give you > > the desired power on 110 V. But it probably won't fit physically. > > Doesn't the size of the electric wire inside the tube change? i.e. > change the wire to larger diameter and the heater can remain small? Not necessarily. Rather than look on the inside, look first on the outside. If you have four times the power in the same physical package, you will have four times the power (heat) flowing out of the same surface area, thus four times the heat flux. As Jim Cathey has said, this could cause performance problems with your boiler. In addition, it could cause performance problems with the heating tube itself, causing damage to the materials of which it is made. It all depends upon how close to the "margin" the heating tube is designed. Of course, you could always use a heating tube of the desired power designed for 230 V on its design voltage (230 V). Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - Calrod heater element
There is a maximum heat flux that you can pump into water per unit area, before surface steam would be generated which would dramatically cut down the heat flux and result in overheating and melting of the element. So, he's talking about putting in a 4kW element in order to get 1kW out of it on reduced voltage. But it's going to be physically sized to deliver 4kW into unpressurized, non-flowing water, which means it will be somewhat larger than a 1kW element would need to be. I don't know how big that is. I'm just digging 40-year-old information out of my brain from Heat Transfer class back in college. Information I have _never_ used since, and no way am I going to dig into my old textbooks in order to get anything better than this off-the-cuff info. I invite anyone who cares more to do their own digging. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - Calrod heater element
Craig wrote: > So a heater rated at 4 times the desired power on 230 V will give you the > desired power on 110 V. But it probably won't fit physically. Doesn't the size of the electric wire inside the tube change? i.e. change the wire to larger diameter and the heater can remain small? tin ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - Calrod heater element
On Sun, 24 Mar 2019 21:41:31 -0500 Mountain Man via Mercedes wrote: > Curley wrote: > > The guy I used to work for would know all that. > > And he knew a lot more, no doubt. The type of guy we need a million > more today. Will 230v replacement work in 110v? > That is question for Craig, and Watlow / Calrod. Others have answered it. If you run a 230 V heater on 110 V, you will get 1/4 the power. So a heater rated at 4 times the desired power on 230 V will give you the desired power on 110 V. But it probably won't fit physically. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - Calrod heater element
> Will 230v work for 110v? In short, no. You don't specify which way, but for a resistance heater you'll either get 1/4 the power and tepid water, or else 4x the power (briefly) and wet slag. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - Calrod heater element
Cut the volts in half and you cut the watts to a quarter. Mitch > On March 24, 2019 at 10:39 PM Mountain Man via Mercedes > wrote: > Will 230v work for 110v? > Where's Craig? ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - Calrod heater element
Curley wrote: > The guy I used to work for would know all that. And he knew a lot more, no doubt. The type of guy we need a million more today. Will 230v replacement work in 110v? That is question for Craig, and Watlow / Calrod. tin ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - Calrod heater element
-- Jim wrote: > My guess is all you really need is the overall physical dimensions of the > installation (coil shape/size), voltage/wattage, and that it's for a coffee > maker? > > This is a low-tech installation, in all likelihood. Will 230v work for 110v? Where's Craig? tin ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - Calrod heater element
> Diameter of electrical carrier inside the metal tube is probably > important? Diameter of metal tube is probably important? Length of > metal tube is probably important? What else will Watlow / Calrod need > to know? My guess is all you really need is the overall physical dimensions of the installation (coil shape/size), voltage/wattage, and that it's for a coffee maker? This is a low-tech installation, in all likelihood. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - Calrod heater element
The guy I used to work for would know all that. He seemed to be on a first name basis with the engineers at both companies. He was 80 at the time, and ran like he was 20 or 25, kinda like Dax on startrek. He'd get a call at 3 am from a ship on the other side of the world having trouble lighting their boilers. We built control panels put in heaters and all sorts of crazy stuff. When nobody in the world would take on a project, Harry would. Unfortunately he's moved on. Harry was one of the most memorable characters I've met. He was on Ford Island at 8 am Sunday Dec 7, 1941. He told me that he and a couple other guys (in the Army) invented palletizing supplies and forklifts on Ford Island in the early 40s to expedite shipments to the islands. I have no reason to doubt him. His word was always good. Anyhow, those dimensions you mention are a good start. If they need more, they will tell you. Mountain Man via Mercedes wrote on 3/23/19 9:10 PM: Curley wrote: WATLOW HAS A HUGE FACILITY IN HANNIBAL, Mo. Thanks for that. Does anyone know system load calculations for calrod heat element? There is an engineer reading OkieBenz... correct? Diameter of electrical carrier inside the metal tube is probably important? Diameter of metal tube is probably important? Length of metal tube is probably important? What else will Watlow / Calrod need to know? Thanks. tin ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - Calrod heater element
Curley wrote: > WATLOW HAS A HUGE FACILITY IN HANNIBAL, Mo. Thanks for that. Does anyone know system load calculations for calrod heat element? There is an engineer reading OkieBenz... correct? Diameter of electrical carrier inside the metal tube is probably important? Diameter of metal tube is probably important? Length of metal tube is probably important? What else will Watlow / Calrod need to know? Thanks. tin ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - Calrod heater element
WATLOW HAS A HUGE FACILITY IN HANNIBAL, Mo. Think Tom Sawyer, Huck Finn, Samuel Clemons, Mark Twain. It is right on US 61. Mountain Man via Mercedes wrote on 3/23/19 12:39 PM: Device nameplate: 120v, 1000w Thanks for info about Watlow and Calrod. One manufacturer or fabricator is located nextdoor to --FT and Max, i.e. SC tin ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - Calrod heater element
Device nameplate: 120v, 1000w Thanks for info about Watlow and Calrod. One manufacturer or fabricator is located nextdoor to --FT and Max, i.e. SC tin ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - Calrod heater element
yea, but I assumed mao knew that. it is rated 220, but I'd look for one 240v rated. Mitch Haley via Mercedes wrote on 3/23/19 6:22 AM: Even more important than the watt rating is the volt rating. Mitch. On March 22, 2019 at 9:45 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes wrote: My advice: Look on the websites for both, armed with the thread dia and pitch. (after you decide if it is metric or US) Also get the watt rating off the element or from the machine nameplate. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - Calrod heater element
Even more important than the watt rating is the volt rating. Mitch. > On March 22, 2019 at 9:45 PM Curley McLain via Mercedes > wrote: > > > My advice: Look on the websites for both, armed with the thread dia and > pitch. (after you decide if it is metric or US) Also get the watt > rating off the element or from the machine nameplate. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] OT - Calrod heater element
I think there are only 2 companies who make 90% or more of all heating elements. Calrod and Watlow. My advice: Look on the websites for both, armed with the thread dia and pitch. (after you decide if it is metric or US) Also get the watt rating off the element or from the machine nameplate. If you can't find it on the websites, call the customer service for each company. They will probably refer you to a dealer/distributor, but being in the chit ca go area, you are near a big one, so that is ok. call the dealer/distributor. If that fails, call the dealer/distributors in lost angles and/or seattle. (huge coffee markets) Be aware, though, that is may be a contract with the mfgr of your coffee device in italy that prevents the elements from being sold anywhere else You can also try the bay of fleas and the ones in yurp, such as fleabay.de Mountain Man via Mercedes wrote on 3/22/19 8:26 PM: No... not CalRod, i.e. california hot rod... Is calrod the copper tube with wire and clay inside used for heating water? There should be independent repair places that can replace a busted element? The busted tube here is espresso machine boiler and element has hole in tube and clay insides are falling out of hole and measured resistance shows open circuit, infinite. About 8mm dia tube bent in spiral shape mounted on to screw plug. Has anyone replaced these heater elements? It seems there should be a supplier for this heater element tube? The machine is Brugnetti model MC1 Top made in italy. thanks tin ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] OT - Calrod heater element
No... not CalRod, i.e. california hot rod... Is calrod the copper tube with wire and clay inside used for heating water? There should be independent repair places that can replace a busted element? The busted tube here is espresso machine boiler and element has hole in tube and clay insides are falling out of hole and measured resistance shows open circuit, infinite. About 8mm dia tube bent in spiral shape mounted on to screw plug. Has anyone replaced these heater elements? It seems there should be a supplier for this heater element tube? The machine is Brugnetti model MC1 Top made in italy. thanks tin ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
