Re: [MBZ] On the Subject of Early MB Slushbox Shifters...
"Speed shifting" is how they explained it. On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 6:38 PM Mitch Haley via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > On 2021-03-07 18:15, OK Don via Mercedes wrote: > > Back when I was working in a foreign car shop in college, we frequently > > replaced transmissions in spritgets (AH Sprite, MG Midget) due to > > reverse > > being to the right of 4th gear - shifting from third to reverse and > > letting > > the clutch out threw the idler gear out the side of the case. > > How in the world do you engage a non-synchronized reverse at 30mph? > Must have been yanking that lever with all their might. > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > -- OK Don "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." Mark Twain “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.” Wernher Von Braun 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] On the Subject of Early MB Slushbox Shifters...
On 2021-03-07 18:15, OK Don via Mercedes wrote: Back when I was working in a foreign car shop in college, we frequently replaced transmissions in spritgets (AH Sprite, MG Midget) due to reverse being to the right of 4th gear - shifting from third to reverse and letting the clutch out threw the idler gear out the side of the case. How in the world do you engage a non-synchronized reverse at 30mph? Must have been yanking that lever with all their might. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] On the Subject of Early MB Slushbox Shifters...
Back when I was working in a foreign car shop in college, we frequently replaced transmissions in spritgets (AH Sprite, MG Midget) due to reverse being to the right of 4th gear - shifting from third to reverse and letting the clutch out threw the idler gear out the side of the case. On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 4:20 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > Reverse on manuals doesn't seem to be standard. I've seen it top-left, > bottom left, or bottom right at least. > > Anyone remember the Top Gear where James was driving a (I think) 190E > 2.3-16 that had the dogleg 1st gear? He kept putting it in Reverse to > start off from a stop (though I'm sure that was contrived for the show > for comedic effect). > > Allan > -- OK Don "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." Mark Twain “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.” Wernher Von Braun 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] On the Subject of Early MB Slushbox Shifters...
On 2021-03-07 17:17, Allan Streib via Mercedes wrote: Reverse on manuals doesn't seem to be standard. I've seen it top-left, bottom left, or bottom right at least. Anyone remember the Top Gear where James was driving a (I think) 190E 2.3-16 that had the dogleg 1st gear? He kept putting it in Reverse to start off from a stop (though I'm sure that was contrived for the show for comedic effect). The Getrag in the 2.3-16 is the only MBZ I know of with up for reverse. Amongst farm tractors, it's known as 'shuttle shift' when first and reverse are in a straight line. Great for barn and pasture work. On the 16V, you only need first gear for a standing start, the rest of the race you're exclusively using the other four gears. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] On the Subject of Early MB Slushbox Shifters...
Reverse on manuals doesn't seem to be standard. I've seen it top-left, bottom left, or bottom right at least. Anyone remember the Top Gear where James was driving a (I think) 190E 2.3-16 that had the dogleg 1st gear? He kept putting it in Reverse to start off from a stop (though I'm sure that was contrived for the show for comedic effect). Allan Rick Knoble via Mercedes writes: >> The shifter design was later standardized for all vehicles sold in the US to >> avoid this. > > Yep. Vehicles including motorcycles. I have a 1968 Harley Davidson XL > (Sportster) that has the shifter on the right side. IIRC, older British bikes > are similar. > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] On the Subject of Early MB Slushbox Shifters...
Dan Penoff via Mercedes writes: > At least it didn’t have the pushbutton start and shutdown at stops > like some modern cars have. Both of those make me crazy. I don't like the stop/start either. Seems to me it would put much more wear on the starter over time. I generally disable it when I drive a car that has it. Also the auto-stop of the engine seems to have the uncanny ability to cause traffic lights to turn green within a few seconds. Allan ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] On the Subject of Early MB Slushbox Shifters...
> The shifter design was later standardized for all vehicles sold in the US to > avoid this. Yep. Vehicles including motorcycles. I have a 1968 Harley Davidson XL (Sportster) that has the shifter on the right side. IIRC, older British bikes are similar. Rick ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] On the Subject of Early MB Slushbox Shifters...
The Dodge pickup truck I had as a rental last week in Flagstaff was really weird (to me.) It had a knob on the instrument panel for selecting the gears. I kept looking for the shifter (on the column) when I would get in and get ready to go. Took a bit of getting used to. At least it didn’t have the pushbutton start and shutdown at stops like some modern cars have. Both of those make me crazy. -D > On Mar 6, 2021, at 2:04 PM, Jaime Kopchinski via Mercedes > wrote: > > Before 1968 or so, there was no standard in automatic shifters. This > resulted in people getting run over because drivers were unfamiliar with > all the various types of automatic shifters, especially in situations like > valet parking where someone may drive many types of cars in a short period > of time. The shifter design was later standardized for all vehicles sold > in the US to avoid this. > > This is covered in details in Nader's Unsafe at any speed. Quite an > interesting read. > > We've gone away from this again with modern cars (2007 S class being one of > the first) but there are many mechanisms in the car to prevent them from > unexpectedly staying in gear and is regulated by FMVSS. > > Jaime > > > On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 9:57 AM M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > >> [image: image.png] >> Why were they mounted essentially upside down with Park at the bottom and >> 1st at the top? Seems to be the potential for considerable confusion... >> >> -MMM- >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> >> > > -- > Jaime Kopchinski > http://www.jaimekop.com/ > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] On the Subject of Early MB Slushbox Shifters...
Before 1968 or so, there was no standard in automatic shifters. This resulted in people getting run over because drivers were unfamiliar with all the various types of automatic shifters, especially in situations like valet parking where someone may drive many types of cars in a short period of time. The shifter design was later standardized for all vehicles sold in the US to avoid this. This is covered in details in Nader's Unsafe at any speed. Quite an interesting read. We've gone away from this again with modern cars (2007 S class being one of the first) but there are many mechanisms in the car to prevent them from unexpectedly staying in gear and is regulated by FMVSS. Jaime On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 9:57 AM M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > [image: image.png] > Why were they mounted essentially upside down with Park at the bottom and > 1st at the top? Seems to be the potential for considerable confusion... > > -MMM- > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > -- Jaime Kopchinski http://www.jaimekop.com/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] On the Subject of Early MB Slushbox Shifters...
Might have been the “Jetaway 200” that my 1962 Series 60 Cadillac Fleetwood had. I don’t recall if “R” was at the far right on that. -D > On Mar 5, 2021, at 6:40 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes > wrote: > > Do you remember that Hydramatics had the reverse on the far right? Past Low. > > One of the early Federal automotive requirements was the PRNDL pattern -- far > too many cars were jumping curbs because the sloppy linkage GM used (nearly > everyone else had quit using Hydramatics after the 1950s fire than destroyed > the Hydramatic plant) would have the transmission actually in low gear while > the display looked like it was in reverse. > > We had one on the 62 Olds, I think it was changed for the 63 model. > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] On the Subject of Early MB Slushbox Shifters...
Do you remember that Hydramatics had the reverse on the far right? Past Low. One of the early Federal automotive requirements was the PRNDL pattern -- far too many cars were jumping curbs because the sloppy linkage GM used (nearly everyone else had quit using Hydramatics after the 1950s fire than destroyed the Hydramatic plant) would have the transmission actually in low gear while the display looked like it was in reverse. We had one on the 62 Olds, I think it was changed for the 63 model. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] On the Subject of Early MB Slushbox Shifters...
On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 8:59 AM Dan Penoff via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > This is a manual, you realize. > Yeah, but the pic reminded me of the goofy LDNRP arrangement, as they used the same type of shift knob. On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 12:47 PM Frederick Moir via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > My old Mk8 jaguar (RHD in UK) was PNDLR, just to add confusion. > The trans was sourced from the US. > H'm. I now seem to vaguely remember that DB also sourced US slushboxes at first. Perhaps they needed a weird linkage setup to make 'em fit? -MMM- ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] On the Subject of Early MB Slushbox Shifters...
My old Mk8 jaguar (RHD in UK) was PNDLR, just to add confusion. The trans was sourced from the US. Fred. On Fri, Mar 5, 2021 at 9:59 AM Dan Penoff via Mercedes < mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > This is a manual, you realize. > > As for the PRNDL arrangement on the slushboxes, I have no idea, but it was > weird. > > -D > > > On Mar 5, 2021, at 9:56 AM, M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes < > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote: > > > > [image: image.png] > > Why were they mounted essentially upside down with Park at the bottom and > > 1st at the top? Seems to be the potential for considerable confusion... > > > > -MMM- > > ___ > > http://www.okiebenz.com > > > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > > > > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > > -- Fred Moir Lynn MA Diesel preferred ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] On the Subject of Early MB Slushbox Shifters...
This is a manual, you realize. As for the PRNDL arrangement on the slushboxes, I have no idea, but it was weird. -D > On Mar 5, 2021, at 9:56 AM, M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes > wrote: > > [image: image.png] > Why were they mounted essentially upside down with Park at the bottom and > 1st at the top? Seems to be the potential for considerable confusion... > > -MMM- > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com > ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
