Re: [MBZ] Our Political System
Jeff wrote:the other curiosity to the US system...term limits. \ Unless I have missed something there are no term limits except for the odd state here and there. It has been debated ad naseum, but like so much other stuff it never gets passed. Yack, yack, yackety, yack - Things that *do* get passed tend to be congressional pay raises which are voted on at 2am when no one is watching. It much be nice to decide when and how much your next raise will be! Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: Jeff Zedic [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 1:37 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Our Political System That reminds me of the other curiosity to the US system...term limits. Kind of says from the start that they won't be any good and then hobbles their final term with lame duck status. If you get a good candidate doing a good job, why not let them stay in? It doesn't do harm to other countries. Again though, it relies on a populace that's actually interested in the political process...( or at least willing to vote) And would it be possible to shorten this process?? It goes on for far too long. You guys must get awfully tired of listening to their rhetoric...especially as it changes with the wind so much(as they all seem to do round the world) Zedic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Our Political System
LarryT wrote: Unless I have missed something there are no term limits except for the odd state here and there. You can be Senator-for-life (witness Edward Kennedy) but not President-for-life. Amendment 22 (the FDR amendment) put an end to that possibility in 1951. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_amendments_to_the_United_States_Constitution ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] Our Political System
Our system of government is a Republic, not a Democracy. The Democratic Party started to push the term “Democracy” in the 30s to lend more credibility to the party name and it has stuck ever since. A more correct set of names for the two parties would be Conservative and Liberal. In a democracy, everyone votes on everything and a true democracy is mass rule or mass chaos. In a republic, you hire or “vote for” who you want to represent you and that person is charged to represent your area or district. The person will not specifically represent you but a good politician will represent the average wishes of his or her district. Also, most don’t realize that politics is all about compromise. Your elected official may agree 100% with an issue that’s dear to your heart but he has to compromise that issue to win somewhere else. This happens every day. A good politician chooses his battles carefully so as to gain as much as he can for the district. The Presidential veto is part of our three leg government and is necessary to keep Congress in check. There have been many instances where Congress has gotten out of control passed a bill that the President has refused to sign off. The president does not perform this task lightly and it would be nice if he had line item veto. Instead, the president has to use the media to help push some of the more outrageous pork off a bill before he signs. Thanks, Tom Hargrave HYPERLINK http://www.kegkits.comwww.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1299 - Release Date: 2/26/2008 9:08 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Our Political System
Tom Hargrave wrote: The Presidential veto is part of our three leg government and is necessary to keep Congress in check. There have been many instances where Congress has gotten out of control passed a bill that the President has refused to sign off. The president does not perform this task lightly and it would be nice if he had line item veto. Instead, the president has to use the media to help push some of the more outrageous pork off a bill before he signs. I'm not as up on my govt. as I should be, but doesn't congress have the ability to overrule a presidential veto if they reach a certain majority? There would have to be a corresponding check and balance for the line item veto. A line item veto makes it way to easy to manipulate a law outside of its intended purpose, IMO. John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Our Political System
Tom, I agree with your desciption and explanation. My question then becomes what is the operational, not theoretical but real, balance and heck for the president? Dave H... From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 09:52:24 -0600 Subject: [MBZ] Our Political System Our system of government is a Republic, not a Democracy. The Democratic Party started to push the term “Democracy” in the 30s to lend more credibility to the party name and it has stuck ever since. A more correct set of names for the two parties would be Conservative and Liberal. In a democracy, everyone votes on everything and a true democracy is mass rule or mass chaos.In a republic, you hire or “vote for” who you want to represent you and that person is charged to represent your area or district. The person will not specifically represent you but a good politician will represent the average wishes of his or her district.Also, most don’t realize that politics is all about compromise. Your elected official may agree 100% with an issue that’s dear to your heart but he has to compromise that issue to win somewhere else. This happens every day. A good politician chooses his battles carefully so as to gain as much as he can for the district.The Presidential veto is part of our three leg government and is necessary to keep Congress in check. There have been many instances where Congress has gotten out of control passed a bill that the President has refused to sign off. The president does not perform this task lightly and it would be nice if he had line item veto. Instead, the president has to use the media to help push some of the more outrageous pork off a bill before he signs.Thanks, Tom Hargrave HYPERLINK http://www.kegkits.comwww.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1299 - Release Date: 2/26/2008 9:08 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Our Political System
Well, it seems that lately it's the Pres that's gotten out of line. Zedic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Our Political System
Yes they do. If the President veto's a bill then it can go back to Congress for a majority vote. In a closed system, a line item veto could easily be used to manipulate the system. But in this case, I'm sure that the media would have a field day with any of the more outrageous veto'd line items. I suspect that this would have a limiting affect on some of the pork that is pushed through today. And yes, line item veto's would also have to be voted on by Congress, exposing pork even more. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Robbins Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 9:57 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Our Political System Tom Hargrave wrote: The Presidential veto is part of our three leg government and is necessary to keep Congress in check. There have been many instances where Congress has gotten out of control passed a bill that the President has refused to sign off. The president does not perform this task lightly and it would be nice if he had line item veto. Instead, the president has to use the media to help push some of the more outrageous pork off a bill before he signs. I'm not as up on my govt. as I should be, but doesn't congress have the ability to overrule a presidential veto if they reach a certain majority? There would have to be a corresponding check and balance for the line item veto. A line item veto makes it way to easy to manipulate a law outside of its intended purpose, IMO. John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1299 - Release Date: 2/26/2008 9:08 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1299 - Release Date: 2/26/2008 9:08 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Our Political System
John answered that in his email. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Hemsley Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 9:59 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Our Political System Tom, I agree with your desciption and explanation. My question then becomes what is the operational, not theoretical but real, balance and heck for the president? Dave H... From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 09:52:24 -0600 Subject: [MBZ] Our Political System Our system of government is a Republic, not a Democracy. The Democratic Party started to push the term “Democracy” in the 30s to lend more credibility to the party name and it has stuck ever since. A more correct set of names for the two parties would be Conservative and Liberal. In a democracy, everyone votes on everything and a true democracy is mass rule or mass chaos.In a republic, you hire or “vote for” who you want to represent you and that person is charged to represent your area or district. The person will not specifically represent you but a good politician will represent the average wishes of his or her district. Also, most don’t realize that politics is all about compromise. Your elected official may agree 100% with an issue that’s dear to your heart but he has to compromise that issue to win somewhere else. This happens every day. A good politician chooses his battles carefully so as to gain as much as he can for the district.The Presidential veto is part of our three leg government and is necessary to keep Congress in check. There have been many instances where Congress has gotten out of control passed a bill that the President has refused to sign off. The president does not perform this task lightly and it would be nice if he had line item veto. Instead, the president has to use the media to help push some of the more outrageous pork off a bill before he signs.Thanks, Tom Hargrave HYPERLINK http://www.kegkits.comwww.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1299 - Release Date: 2/26/2008 9:08 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1299 - Release Date: 2/26/2008 9:08 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1299 - Release Date: 2/26/2008 9:08 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Our Political System
Jeff Zedic wrote: Well, it seems that lately it's the Pres that's gotten out of line. Well, he should have been impeached, tried, convicted and hung from the neck until dead years ago. He loves to issue signing statements when he signs Congress-passed bills into law. The signing statement basically says I endorse this law, but ir really means something entirely different than it says. That should have been brought to an end the minute it started. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Our Political System
Well put Tom. Harry 2008/2/26 Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Our system of government is a Republic, not a Democracy. The Democratic Party started to push the term Democracy in the 30s to lend more credibility to the party name and it has stuck ever since. A more correct set of names for the two parties would be Conservative and Liberal. In a democracy, everyone votes on everything and a true democracy is mass rule or mass chaos. In a republic, you hire or vote for who you want to represent you and that person is charged to represent your area or district. The person will not specifically represent you but a good politician will represent the average wishes of his or her district. Also, most don't realize that politics is all about compromise. Your elected official may agree 100% with an issue that's dear to your heart but he has to compromise that issue to win somewhere else. This happens every day. A good politician chooses his battles carefully so as to gain as much as he can for the district. The Presidential veto is part of our three leg government and is necessary to keep Congress in check. There have been many instances where Congress has gotten out of control passed a bill that the President has refused to sign off. The president does not perform this task lightly and it would be nice if he had line item veto. Instead, the president has to use the media to help push some of the more outrageous pork off a bill before he signs. Thanks, Tom Hargrave HYPERLINK http://www.kegkits.comwww.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1299 - Release Date: 2/26/2008 9:08 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Our Political System
Mitch wroteThe signing statement basically says I endorse this law, but ir really means something entirely different than it says IIRC that's the logic he used when he signed McCain-Feingold - which said private organizations could not tell the public what a candidate's voting record was during the 60 day period prior to an election. Everyone thought the Supreme Court would strike it down but, Bt, wrong - they think it;s ok to stomp on the 1st Amendment when a politican needs to keep the public from knowing how they voted on important issues. McCain's name is on this legislation which is why I will not vote for him. That's why he's called a RINO -(Republican In Name Only) - none of the candidates have any conservative values. All the candidates have a strong anti 2nd Amendment record and are not committed to closing our borders so only those immigrants who have gone thru the legal process are admitted. Allowing 12-50 million poorly educated people who crossed the border without any documentaion of past legal history, medical history, etc. is meant to create 12-50 million new voters who are likely to vote the demoratic ticket. As far as finding 12 million people are sending them back - they say it;s impossible, but if there were 12 million murderers out there, there would be money to find and remove them (I hope) - and we learn more about the crimes committed by illegal aliens everyday. 2008 is *not* going to be a bright spot in the history of freedom - capping off 8 years of Bush who claims to be conservative but signs all kinds of liberal legislation into law with a wink saying, It won't matter -- this isn't what it sounds like Idiot - Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 11:15 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Our Political System Jeff Zedic wrote: Well, it seems that lately it's the Pres that's gotten out of line. Well, he should have been impeached, tried, convicted and hung from the neck until dead years ago. He loves to issue signing statements when he signs Congress-passed bills into law. The signing statement basically says I endorse this law, but ir really means something entirely different than it says. That should have been brought to an end the minute it started. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Our Political System
The signed statements are nothing more than the President's opinion and have nothing to do with the signoff process. Thanks, Tom 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: 2/26/08 10:15 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Our Political System Jeff Zedic wrote: Well, it seems that lately it's the Pres that's gotten out of line. Well, he should have been impeached, tried, convicted and hung from the neck until dead years ago. He loves to issue signing statements when he signs Congress-passed bills into law. The signing statement basically says I endorse this law, but ir really means something entirely different than it says. That should have been brought to an end the minute it started. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1299 - Release Date: 2/26/2008 9:08 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Our Political System
That reminds me of the other curiosity to the US system...term limits. Kind of says from the start that they won't be any good and then hobbles their final term with lame duck status. If you get a good candidate doing a good job, why not let them stay in? It doesn't do harm to other countries. Again though, it relies on a populace that's actually interested in the political process...( or at least willing to vote) And would it be possible to shorten this process?? It goes on for far too long. You guys must get awfully tired of listening to their rhetoric...especially as it changes with the wind so much(as they all seem to do round the world) Zedic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Our Political System
Term limits are extremely important. Without a Presidential term limit, some extremely popular presidents would have remained in power until death. Some offices do not have term limits and there are glaring examples of some of these offices being filled by Politicians who do absolutely nothing. Do some research on our US Senators and you fine that some of these lifers are in their 80's never show up or just show up drunk. Also, most don't know that George Washington was so popular that many wanted him as King. If that had happened then we would be ruled (not governed) by his decendents today. And BTW, history shows that he was a OK general and a OK President. Would his direct decendents have done any better? Tom www.kegkits.com - Original Message - From: Jeff Zedic [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: 2/26/08 1:38 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com CC: Subject: Re: [MBZ] Our Political System That reminds me of the other curiosity to the US system...term limits. Kind of says from the start that they won't be any good and then hobbles their final term with lame duck status. If you get a good candidate doing a good job, why not let them stay in? It doesn't do harm to other countries. Again though, it relies on a populace that's actually interested in the political process...( or at least willing to vote) And would it be possible to shorten this process?? It goes on for far too long. You guys must get awfully tired of listening to their rhetoric...especially as it changes with the wind so much(as they all seem to do round the world) Zedic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1299 - Release Date: 2/26/2008 9:08 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Our Political System
You must remember that the English can vote no confidence and change their leader(s) in a relative heart beat compared to us. Kind of assures that the Leaders pay attention Pete -- Original message -- From: Jeff Zedic [EMAIL PROTECTED] Washington actually begged to be let out of being Pres after two terms. In fact, he was reluctant to do the second term. I don't agree on the need for term limits. Canada's most popular Prime Minister was around for 18 years or so, although not all in a row. Look at Tony Blair, or Thatcher, or Churchill! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Our Political System
We can also impeach our leaders. Tom www.kegkits.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: 2/26/08 2:14 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com CC: Subject: Re: [MBZ] Our Political System You must remember that the English can vote no confidence and change their leader(s) in a relative heart beat compared to us. Kind of assures that the Leaders pay attention Pete -- Original message -- From: Jeff Zedic [EMAIL PROTECTED] Washington actually begged to be let out of being Pres after two terms. In fact, he was reluctant to do the second term. I don't agree on the need for term limits. Canada's most popular Prime Minister was around for 18 years or so, although not all in a row. Look at Tony Blair, or Thatcher, or Churchill! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1299 - Release Date: 2/26/2008 9:08 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Our Political System
Washington actually begged to be let out of being Pres after two terms. In fact, he was reluctant to do the second term. I don't agree on the need for term limits. Canada's most popular Prime Minister was around for 18 years or so, although not all in a row. Look at Tony Blair, or Thatcher, or Churchill! Term limits seem to be something you need when nobody bothers to pay attention to what's going on. VERY few Americans I speak to have no political opinions, which is a good thing! Zedic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Our Political System
Tom Hargrave wrote: We can also impeach our leaders. You and I can't, the leader's opposition party can. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Our Political System
Yes, But that takes a huge effort, major polical disruption and a long time. Pete -- Original message -- From: Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] We can also impeach our leaders. Tom www.kegkits.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: 2/26/08 2:14 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List CC: Subject: Re: [MBZ] Our Political System You must remember that the English can vote no confidence and change their leader(s) in a relative heart beat compared to us. Kind of assures that the Leaders pay attention Pete -- Original message -- From: Jeff Zedic Washington actually begged to be let out of being Pres after two terms. In fact, he was reluctant to do the second term. I don't agree on the need for term limits. Canada's most popular Prime Minister was around for 18 years or so, although not all in a row. Look at Tony Blair, or Thatcher, or Churchill! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1299 - Release Date: 2/26/2008 9:08 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Our Political System
Impeachment is not the deterrent, the threat of impeachment is the deterrent. Same goes for fiscal accountability through the entire system. Tom www.kegkits.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: 2/26/08 2:38 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com CC: Subject: Re: [MBZ] Our Political System Yes, But that takes a huge effort, major polical disruption and a long time. Pete -- Original message -- From: Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] We can also impeach our leaders. Tom www.kegkits.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: 2/26/08 2:14 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List CC: Subject: Re: [MBZ] Our Political System You must remember that the English can vote no confidence and change their leader(s) in a relative heart beat compared to us. Kind of assures that the Leaders pay attention Pete -- Original message -- From: Jeff Zedic Washington actually begged to be let out of being Pres after two terms. In fact, he was reluctant to do the second term. I don't agree on the need for term limits. Canada's most popular Prime Minister was around for 18 years or so, although not all in a row. Look at Tony Blair, or Thatcher, or Churchill! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1299 - Release Date: 2/26/2008 9:08 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1299 - Release Date: 2/26/2008 9:08 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Our Political System
By we I mean the system. The leaders opposition party may bring up the charges but it's the legal system that does the process. This brings up another point - why two political parties work so well. They continuously watch dog each other. Tom www.kegkits.com - Original Message - From: Mitch Haley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: 2/26/08 2:42 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com CC: Subject: Re: [MBZ] Our Political System Tom Hargrave wrote: We can also impeach our leaders. You and I can't, the leader's opposition party can. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1299 - Release Date: 2/26/2008 9:08 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Our Political System
Mitch Haley: He loves to issue signing statements when he signs Congress-passed bills into law. The signing statement basically says I endorse this law, but ir really means something entirely different than it says. That should have been brought to an end the minute it started. Before mouthing off about this stuff, maybe you should check your facts. Ddo you know who started this signing statement? James Monroe (the FIFTH President). Do you know how often it was used during the first 200 years - VERY RARELY. Do you know which president promoted these as a way to make law rather than issue the executive branch's interpretation of the law? BILL FREAKIN' CLINTON. Clinton also used these much more than President Bush. Donald H. Snook http://www.mtsqh.com/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Our Political System
Donald Snook wrote: Do you know which president promoted these as a way to make law rather than issue the executive branch's interpretation of the law? BILL FREAKIN' CLINTON. Clinton also used these much more than President Bush. So how does any of that conflict with what you quoted me saying? I never said Clinton didn't do it, I just said we currently have a problem with Bush doing it, as you admit he is doing. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Our Political System
Tom wrote fiscal accountability HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa !! It used to be the Democrats were the party of Big govt - now the Republicans seem to be in a competition to create the biggest govt ever ! And they're succeeding! IMO, If McC gets elected we'll only be in *slightly* less trouble than if Hillary Obama wins. YMMV Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 2:50 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Our Political System Impeachment is not the deterrent, the threat of impeachment is the deterrent. Same goes for fiscal accountability through the entire system. Tom www.kegkits.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: 2/26/08 2:38 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com CC: Subject: Re: [MBZ] Our Political System Yes, But that takes a huge effort, major polical disruption and a long time. Pete -- Original message -- From: Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED] We can also impeach our leaders. Tom www.kegkits.com - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Received: 2/26/08 2:14 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List CC: Subject: Re: [MBZ] Our Political System You must remember that the English can vote no confidence and change their leader(s) in a relative heart beat compared to us. Kind of assures that the Leaders pay attention Pete -- Original message -- From: Jeff Zedic Washington actually begged to be let out of being Pres after two terms. In fact, he was reluctant to do the second term. I don't agree on the need for term limits. Canada's most popular Prime Minister was around for 18 years or so, although not all in a row. Look at Tony Blair, or Thatcher, or Churchill! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1299 - Release Date: 2/26/2008 9:08 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1299 - Release Date: 2/26/2008 9:08 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Our Political System
Mitch wrote: So how does any of that conflict with what you quoted me saying? I never said Clinton didn't do it, I just said we currently have a problem with Bush doing it, as you admit he is doing. Well, here is what your original email said: Well, he should have been impeached, tried, convicted and hung from the neck until dead years ago. He loves to issue signing statements when he signs Congress-passed bills into law. The signing statement basically says I endorse this law, but ir really means something entirely different than it says. That should have been brought to an end the minute it started. You refer to these signing statements as they are out of the ordinary and that they are further evidence of President Bush's evildoing. You also say that this practice should have been stopped when it was started. My points were: 1. these are not out of the ordinary 2. Bill Clinton was a worse offender (do you advocate that he should be impeached and hung from the neck) 3. You are about 38 presidents too late to complain about ending this when it started. 4. Why do attribute such evil motives to President Bush instead of the 38 prior Presidents who issued these statements. Donald H. Snook http://www.mtsqh.com/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Our Political System
Signing Statements mean exactly nothing. The Presdent does not have the authority to pick and choose which laws he will excute, and any President who does or pretends to have that authority should be promptly impeached, convicted, and removed from office. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Our Political System
Donald Snook wrote: 4. Why do attribute such evil motives to President Bush instead of the 38 prior Presidents who issued these statements. http://www.publicintegrity.org/WarCard/ I imagine that website is pretty biased, but the end number used in their figure I've heard from multiple sources. John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Our Political System
We can also impeach our leaders. Ok, but didn't they impeach Clinton? Andrew Jackson? Thomas Jefferson? Nixon?? It seems pretty toothless and as Pete said, it takes a long time and a lot of resources.. I'd rather have a no confidence vote and get things done! MUCH more sensible to methrow the bastard in the street and bring in the next set of identical bastards with cleaner shirts. Zedic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Our Political System
Ok, so here's a loud-mouthed foreigner spouting off of your system of government. I'd like to here what the Americans on the list would like to fix in their system. No, right or left rants, but what do you guys see as a problem(s) that can be fixed with common sense? This could be a very interesting thread as long as we don't descend into politics..hahaha, you know what I mean! We're talking here about the mechanics of governingnot the politics. I've always seen political types as insecure people; always ready to read something the wrong way or really need to feel assured or assertive or controlling. I'd prefer to see some strong people who are comfortable in their own skin who don't need to lord it over others. Zedic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Our Political System
John Robbins [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm not as up on my govt. as I should be, but doesn't congress have the ability to overrule a presidential veto if they reach a certain majority? There would have to be a corresponding check and balance for the line item veto. A line item veto makes it way to easy to manipulate a law outside of its intended purpose, IMO. OTOH quite often leglislative bills are loaded up with stuff irrelevant to the main subject of the bill, often this is pork to get support of various representatives -- the line item veto would allow the President to weed these out. -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Our Political System
Allan Streib wrote: OTOH quite often leglislative bills are loaded up with stuff irrelevant to the main subject of the bill, often this is pork to get support of various representatives -- the line item veto would allow the President to weed these out. I agree that there is a lot of 'pork' in legislation... I just don't think the line item veto is the way to solve it. Unfortunately, I don't have a better solution. :( John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Our Political System
John Robbins [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Allan Streib wrote: OTOH quite often leglislative bills are loaded up with stuff irrelevant to the main subject of the bill, often this is pork to get support of various representatives -- the line item veto would allow the President to weed these out. I agree that there is a lot of 'pork' in legislation... I just don't think the line item veto is the way to solve it. Unfortunately, I don't have a better solution. :( Perhaps some kind of rule that ammendments to a bill have to be directly related to the original legislation -- though laywers would likely easily tap dance around that. Allan -- 1983 300D ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Our Political System
I don't see anything in the sysyem to fix. Thanks, Tom 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: Jeff Zedic [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: 2/26/08 5:41 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Our Political System Ok, so here's a loud-mouthed foreigner spouting off of your system of government. I'd like to here what the Americans on the list would like to fix in their system. No, right or left rants, but what do you guys see as a problem(s) that can be fixed with common sense? This could be a very interesting thread as long as we don't descend into politics..hahaha, you know what I mean! We're talking here about the mechanics of governingnot the politics. I've always seen political types as insecure people; always ready to read something the wrong way or really need to feel assured or assertive or controlling. I'd prefer to see some strong people who are comfortable in their own skin who don't need to lord it over others. Zedic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1299 - Release Date: 2/26/2008 9:08 AM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Our Political System
On Feb 26, 2008, at 3:35 PM, Jeff Zedic wrote: Ok, so here's a loud-mouthed foreigner spouting off of your system of government. I'd like to here what the Americans on the list would like to fix in their system. I'm sure all the canadians on the list would like to see the americans just get their election over with so we don't have to endure endless media focus on them out the USA sadly for the next 8-10 months.. However I guess when they spend BILLIONS on advertising you get what you wish for John 1983 300TDt 388k Kilometers (mobil 1 Delvac) 1990's 300TDt 217k Kilometers (mobil 1 Delvac) 1993 500SEL 206k Kilometers (mobil 1 Delvac) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Our Political System
Good idea Jeff. IMO, I'd like to see us return to closer adherence to the Constitution. I doubt we could ever go to pure constitutional governing after getting so deep into the social programs we have now. To turn the $$ spigot off would cause rioting and widespread death. The original forefathers thought there would be numerous parties and candidates for high public office - which is why they established the electorate college. I suspect the government might come to a complete stop if there were a 1/2 dozen parties. There wouldn't be enough consensus to get anything passed - which might not be a bad thing in most cases - but on those rare occasions where a law needs to be passed it'd be tough to get it thru. I'd like to see a better way to handle elections. As it is now, the politicians spend 99% of their time preparing for the next election. So they're making promises for who knows what to try and get bags of money and blocks of votes. And when they do get together to pass some bill there's all kinds of behind the scenes deals to do each other favors - you vote for my bill and I'll vote for yours. And who knows what the validity or need of the bill that's getting traded for another bill. Its probably the worst system possible. Maybe strict limits to 1 term and then they're out. Sure there are some we would hate to see go - there's a good one once in a while - but the bad ones would be gone and none would have to spend a minute raising money or begging for votes. Also, the benefits of being in the congress is tremendous - pay is good, benefits are good and the retirement super if you manage to stay in office for 10 or more years. Plus they exempt themselves from many laws they pass or passed in the past. Affirmative actions, etc. - none of it applies - same for all the various ways they *creatively manage their financial dealings. If the government was under the same scrutiny as every American corporation the whole bunch would go to jail. Democrats, Republicans - they're all the same. So, if I were king for a day I'd make every politician serve for 1 term and that's it. Perhaps local officials might serve more terms - it might be tough for many communities to find people to serve - that would be a lot of turnover. Sorry if I was rambling - Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs . - Original Message - From: Jeff Zedic [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Our Political System Ok, so here's a loud-mouthed foreigner spouting off of your system of government. I'd like to here what the Americans on the list would like to fix in their system. No, right or left rants, but what do you guys see as a problem(s) that can be fixed with common sense? This could be a very interesting thread as long as we don't descend into politics..hahaha, you know what I mean! We're talking here about the mechanics of governingnot the politics. I've always seen political types as insecure people; always ready to read something the wrong way or really need to feel assured or assertive or controlling. I'd prefer to see some strong people who are comfortable in their own skin who don't need to lord it over others. Zedic ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Our Political System
The signing statements, are not law, nor choosing which to execute, but they are being used to tell the executive branch how to execute it - which has been to effectively ignore or grossly distort the law under Bush, and probably Clinton, though I haven't looked into his use of them - it's too late now. On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 4:43 PM, Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Signing Statements mean exactly nothing. The Presdent does not have the authority to pick and choose which laws he will excute, and any President who does or pretends to have that authority should be promptly impeached, convicted, and removed from office. Peter -- OK Don, KD5NRO Norman, OK There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics. -Benjamin Disraeli and/or Mark Twain '90 300D, '87 300SDL, '81 240D, '78 450SLC, '97 Ply Grand Voyager ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
