Re: [MBZ] That sinking (brake) feeling
Mitch, Your email arrived last night? Did exactly that test, couple of times. No spots, the reservoir level didn't change. I've ordered a FTE master cylinder from Auto Haus AZ, $144 plus shipping, should have that by Thursday evening. Interestingly I can find rebuild kits for FTE MCs, haven't looked too hard but one price was $75. I may have to snag a good FTE MC core from the junkyard and store that away with a rebuild kit. So tempting to hoard parts... -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '87 300TD '95 E300 On August 1, 2015 12:50:32 PM EDT, Mitch Haley via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Park it over a dry spot and pump the brakes a bit. If there are no obvious leaks, MC seems likely. Leaks in lines, hoses or calipers should put fluid on the ground. Which reminds me, the e320 had that sinking feeling when I moved it last night. Need go move it again and check for spots in the dirt. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] That sinking (brake) feeling
On 05/08/2015 8:14 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes wrote: Mitch, Your email arrived last night? Did exactly that test, couple of times. No spots, the reservoir level didn't change. I've ordered a FTE master cylinder from Auto Haus AZ, $144 plus shipping, should have that by Thursday evening. Interestingly I can find rebuild kits for FTE MCs, haven't looked too hard but one price was $75. I may have to snag a good FTE MC core from the junkyard and store that away with a rebuild kit. So tempting to hoard parts... I ordered a rebuild kit for the mc in my 1976 115 300D. It took a while to show up but I got it. It is Raybestos brand and says that it was made in Australia. I am struggling to get the kit installed however. It was a bit of a bear to get apart and is also challenging me in putting it back together. No problem taking the mc out of the car. It is amazing how stretchy the rubber parts are. Even after the Lord only knows how long the existing parts had soaked in brake fluid, they were not easy to get off of the metal plunger. It took some prying to get them off. Then one has to stretch the new ones onto it. Not easy. I cut the nozzle off of a big caulking tube and used it to slide the rubber cup up on over the ridge on the metal plunger. I tried to just roll it on with my fingers but that is not easy when trying to do it to a small rubber doodad soaked in brake fluid while wearing rubber gloves. Using the nozzle from the caulking tube permitted me to stretch the rubber cup up to about the size of the metal plunger diameter so that I could slip it over the ridge into the groove. While doing so, I hoped I was not doing it any harm. I guess, time will tell. Now that I have that part together, my next challenge is to get that plunger with the rubber cups on it to slide into the bore on the mc casting. There is no way to do it with one's fingers as the smaller bore is at least 2 inches down inside the larger bore on the stepped housing. I think the answer is to find some tubing the right size and slip the plunger into it and reach the whole mess down inside and get it lined up with the bore and then push the plunger out of the tubing into the bore. I measured the plunger and it is .749 so pretty close to 3/4 and 3/4 inside diameter pipe ought not to be too hard to find. I need to poke around in my junk and see what I can come up with, or head to a hardware store with my digital calipers to see what I can find. The service manual on the CD indicates that MB likely provided a rebuild kit for these at one time that came essentially assembled with a new plunger inside a plastic tube. One shoved the tube into the mc housing and just pushed it in. At least that is what it looks like to me in the photos. I am not so lucky. I just got a small bag of loose parts in a box. The price was right and the mc looks good so it seemed to me to be a good thing to try to keep the car pretty much original. However, I have paid more in insurance for the period it has been off the road while I waited for the parts and then while it waited for me to work on it, than it would have cost to have a rebuilt one almost immediately. Such is life, live and learn hopefully. RB ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] That sinking (brake) feeling
Thanks Randy. How easy was it to inspect the bore? Something that can be done in a junk yard? Time/money trade off: don't forget the risk of an accident when the inferior cheapo master cylinder from FLAPS fails. SWMBO has decided she won't drive THE 1995 MERCEDES-BENZ E300 ANDREW until the new MC is installed. I agree with that decision, offered to let her drive the White Whale if she needed. New MC should arrive tomorrow. The pictures of the FTE kit look like the new rubber seals are installed on a new plunger, but I didn't notice a plastic tube to guide them home. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '87 300TD '95 E300 On August 5, 2015 5:41:20 PM EDT, Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I ordered a rebuild kit for the mc in my 1976 115 300D. It took a while to show up but I got it. It is Raybestos brand and says that it was made in Australia. I am struggling to get the kit installed however. It was a bit of a bear to get apart and is also challenging me in putting it back together. No problem taking the mc out of the car. It is amazing how stretchy the rubber parts are. Even after the Lord only knows how long the existing parts had soaked in brake fluid, they were not easy to get off of the metal plunger. It took some prying to get them off. Then one has to stretch the new ones onto it. Not easy. I cut the nozzle off of a big caulking tube and used it to slide the rubber cup up on over the ridge on the metal plunger. I tried to just roll it on with my fingers but that is not easy when trying to do it to a small rubber doodad soaked in brake fluid while wearing rubber gloves. Using the nozzle from the caulking tube permitted me to stretch the rubber cup up to about the size of the metal plunger diameter so that I could slip it over the ridge into the groove. While doing so, I hoped I was not doing it any harm. I guess, time will tell. Now that I have that part together, my next challenge is to get that plunger with the rubber cups on it to slide into the bore on the mc casting. There is no way to do it with one's fingers as the smaller bore is at least 2 inches down inside the larger bore on the stepped housing. I think the answer is to find some tubing the right size and slip the plunger into it and reach the whole mess down inside and get it lined up with the bore and then push the plunger out of the tubing into the bore. I measured the plunger and it is .749 so pretty close to 3/4 and 3/4 inside diameter pipe ought not to be too hard to find. I need to poke around in my junk and see what I can come up with, or head to a hardware store with my digital calipers to see what I can find. The service manual on the CD indicates that MB likely provided a rebuild kit for these at one time that came essentially assembled with a new plunger inside a plastic tube. One shoved the tube into the mc housing and just pushed it in. At least that is what it looks like to me in the photos. I am not so lucky. I just got a small bag of loose parts in a box. The price was right and the mc looks good so it seemed to me to be a good thing to try to keep the car pretty much original. However, I have paid more in insurance for the period it has been off the road while I waited for the parts and then while it waited for me to work on it, than it would have cost to have a rebuilt one almost immediately. Such is life, live and learn hopefully. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] That sinking (brake) feeling
We just looked down the bore with a light and it looked fine to me. RB On 05/08/2015 5:18 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes wrote: Thanks Randy. How easy was it to inspect the bore? Something that can be done in a junk yard? Time/money trade off: don't forget the risk of an accident when the inferior cheapo master cylinder from FLAPS fails. SWMBO has decided she won't drive THE 1995 MERCEDES-BENZ E300 ANDREW until the new MC is installed. I agree with that decision, offered to let her drive the White Whale if she needed. New MC should arrive tomorrow. The pictures of the FTE kit look like the new rubber seals are installed on a new plunger, but I didn't notice a plastic tube to guide them home. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] That sinking (brake) feeling
Park it over a dry spot and pump the brakes a bit. If there are no obvious leaks, MC seems likely. Leaks in lines, hoses or calipers should put fluid on the ground. Which reminds me, the e320 had that sinking feeling when I moved it last night. Need go move it again and check for spots in the dirt. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] That sinking (brake) feeling
Very funny. The car type should ALWAYS be in the subject line. On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 5:25 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Which car? Crosley Sport Utility! Pay attention! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] That sinking (brake) feeling
Which car? On Sat, Aug 1, 2015 at 6:51 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I will see if I have one, although he does not have to pay me. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 1, 2015, at 1:16 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Kaleb - if you get a headlight switch for Craig from one of your 123 or 114/115/116 junkers and send it to him, and I think he will send you $10 plus shipping. - Max Charleston SC On Sat, Aug 1, 2015 at 1:33 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Geez Craig give me a brake. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 1, 2015, at 12:19 PM, Craig via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: On Sat, 1 Aug 2015 10:58:32 -0600 Craig via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: The master cylinder is the usual cause of sinking break pedal. If you can pump the breaks up, that also points to the master cylinder. A fellow student recently had a sinking break pedal, Make that brake and not break! Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] That sinking (brake) feeling
Which car? Crosley Sport Utility! Pay attention! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] That sinking (brake) feeling
Geez Craig give me a brake. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 1, 2015, at 12:19 PM, Craig via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: On Sat, 1 Aug 2015 10:58:32 -0600 Craig via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: The master cylinder is the usual cause of sinking break pedal. If you can pump the breaks up, that also points to the master cylinder. A fellow student recently had a sinking break pedal, Make that brake and not break! Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] That sinking (brake) feeling
Kaleb - if you get a headlight switch for Craig from one of your 123 or 114/115/116 junkers and send it to him, and I think he will send you $10 plus shipping. - Max Charleston SC On Sat, Aug 1, 2015 at 1:33 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Geez Craig give me a brake. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 1, 2015, at 12:19 PM, Craig via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: On Sat, 1 Aug 2015 10:58:32 -0600 Craig via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: The master cylinder is the usual cause of sinking break pedal. If you can pump the breaks up, that also points to the master cylinder. A fellow student recently had a sinking break pedal, Make that brake and not break! Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] That sinking (brake) feeling
On Sat, 01 Aug 2015 09:31:53 -0400 Max Dillon via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: SWMBO says that she had to pump the brakes to stop the car on one occasion yesterday. I'm planning to check the fluid level and look for leaks, but I'm suspicious of the master cylinder. The master cylinder is the usual cause of sinking break pedal. If you can pump the breaks up, that also points to the master cylinder. A fellow student recently had a sinking break pedal, but his was due to a pinhole leak in one of the flexible brake lines. That situation will prevent pumping up much because there's no more brake fluid left. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] That sinking (brake) feeling
On Sat, 1 Aug 2015 10:58:32 -0600 Craig via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: The master cylinder is the usual cause of sinking break pedal. If you can pump the breaks up, that also points to the master cylinder. A fellow student recently had a sinking break pedal, Make that brake and not break! Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] That sinking (brake) feeling
I should add that the brake system failed the press and hold test each time. - Max Charleston SC ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
[MBZ] That sinking (brake) feeling
SWMBO says that she had to pump the brakes to stop the car on one occasion yesterday. I'm planning to check the fluid level and look for leaks, but I'm suspicious of the master cylinder. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '87 300TD '95 E300 ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] That sinking (brake) feeling
I did the press and hold brake pedal test several times, engine running, and then moved the car and looked for brake fluid (found none) and also watched the reservoir level (it didn't seem to drop). Current master cylinder is a replacement (aftermarket, no identifying marks that I can find) which I installed about 4 years / 80k miles ago. Searched around a bit today, settled on an FTE MC from Autohaus AZ, $144. Northlake dealership wants about $180 for a new part. I was considering rebuilding the MC because it is relatively young and the cylinder may be fine, but can't find a source on-line for the parts. FTE may offer a kit, but when I checked to find no identifying marks on mine and read a few forum posts on rebuilding brake MC, I've decided to get the FTE MC which may be rebuildable in the future, but probably will last the life of the car and not need rebuilding. - Max Charleston SC On Sat, Aug 1, 2015 at 1:19 PM, Craig via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: On Sat, 1 Aug 2015 10:58:32 -0600 Craig via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: The master cylinder is the usual cause of sinking break pedal. If you can pump the breaks up, that also points to the master cylinder. A fellow student recently had a sinking break pedal, Make that brake and not break! Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] That sinking (brake) feeling
On Sat, 1 Aug 2015 14:16:12 -0400 Meade Dillon via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Kaleb - if you get a headlight switch for Craig from one of your 123 or 114/115/116 junkers and send it to him, and I think he will send you $10 plus shipping. Yes, Kaleb, do you have a W123 headlight switch? Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] That sinking (brake) feeling
Max wrote: SWMBO says that she had to pump the brakes to stop the car on one occasion yesterday. I'm planning to check the fluid level and look for leaks, but I'm suspicious of the master cylinder. It depends. All you have said is had to pump the brakes to stop the car - which not specific enough. The subject line says sinking - and if that's the case, it's probably the master cylinder. If the pedal sinks when applying light pressure, there is either a hole or fluid is leaking past the master cylinder piston seals. If the fluid level isn't low, then it must be the master cylinder. Often - but not always - a fast, hard press on the brake pedal will still seal and the brakes will work fine. If the pedal is firm under light or heavy pressure, but has to be pumped a couple times before the brake pressure builds, it could be a wheel cylinder that is being retracted too far. Failing wheel bearings can cause excess wheel wobble that causes the brake pistons to be pushed back too much. A loose caliper can also cause similar symptoms. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] That sinking (brake) feeling
Meade wrote: I was considering rebuilding the MC because it is relatively young and the cylinder may be fine, but can't find a source on-line for the parts. I have 123s - and I failed to find any rebuild parts for the brake or clutch master cylinders. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] That sinking (brake) feeling
I will see if I have one, although he does not have to pay me. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 1, 2015, at 1:16 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Kaleb - if you get a headlight switch for Craig from one of your 123 or 114/115/116 junkers and send it to him, and I think he will send you $10 plus shipping. - Max Charleston SC On Sat, Aug 1, 2015 at 1:33 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Geez Craig give me a brake. Sent from my iPhone On Aug 1, 2015, at 12:19 PM, Craig via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: On Sat, 1 Aug 2015 10:58:32 -0600 Craig via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: The master cylinder is the usual cause of sinking break pedal. If you can pump the breaks up, that also points to the master cylinder. A fellow student recently had a sinking break pedal, Make that brake and not break! Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
