Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-09 Thread Hendrik Fay
I haven't, have to deal with selfish neighbour attitude but I will when 
I get a chance, so therefore reserve the right o comment on this subject 
at a later date but you all know that I am always civil.


Hendrik
who hates bureaucrazy

Allan Streib wrote:

Not to speak for Kaleb but IMO it's probably gone as far as it should on
this list.  I think everyone has said his piece and it's stayed
reasonably civil.

Could continue on the Banned list if you really want to.

  


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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-09 Thread Hendrik Fay

and altered the test results, knowing that one day that would be useful?

Hendrik
who is being cheeky to his elders

WILTON wrote:
BTW - an interesting little aside, well, to me, anyway:  I spent a 
night at the site of the Greenland ice coring project by the National 
Science Foundation in July, 1978.


Wilton




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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-09 Thread WILTON
'Actually there for 2 days and a night; no, I didn't alter anything; and, 
no, I didn't pee on a core or into the hole - ice core hoe, that is.   ;)))


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Hendrik  Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2011 12:08 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies


and altered the test results, knowing that one day that would be 
useful?


Hendrik
who is being cheeky to his elders

WILTON wrote:
BTW - an interesting little aside, well, to me, anyway:  I spent a night 
at the site of the Greenland ice coring project by the National Science 
Foundation in July, 1978.


Wilton




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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-08 Thread Curt Raymond
• In Washington D.C. it is illegal to post a notice in public which calls 
another person a 'coward' for refusing to accept a challenge to duel.

• It is unlawful for small boys to throw stones, at any time, at any place in 
the District of Columbia.

• The only acceptable sexual position in Washington D.C. is the missionary 
position. Any other sexual position is considered illegal.

• The U.S. government says it's a crime to give false weather reports.

Oh yeah, our government is known for its brilliance...

-Curt

Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 18:07:35 -0400
From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies
Message-ID: 4e162e27.4000...@voyager.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote:
 Because our  elected representatives know better than to enact something so 
 idiotic. 
   


ROTFL!



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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-08 Thread G Mann
In my very best Bill Clinton voice define missionary

Since America is already been put on it's knees it gives some measure of
thought to just what is coming next as far as government mandated sexual
positions...  BTW anyone had an IRS audit.. ???Certainly deviant
sexual behaviour by DC rule of law.

To quote some wise soul whose name I can't recall  The most dangerous thing
in America is Congress in session.



On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 6:37 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:

 • In Washington D.C. it is illegal to post a notice in public which calls
 another person a 'coward' for refusing to accept a challenge to duel.

 • It is unlawful for small boys to throw stones, at any time, at any place
 in the District of Columbia.

 • The only acceptable sexual position in Washington D.C. is the missionary
 position. Any other sexual position is considered illegal.

 • The U.S. government says it's a crime to give false weather reports.

 Oh yeah, our government is known for its brilliance...

 -Curt

 Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 18:07:35 -0400
 From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies
 Message-ID: 4e162e27.4000...@voyager.net
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

 astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote:
  Because our  elected representatives know better than to enact something
 so idiotic.
 


 ROTFL!



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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-08 Thread Jim Cathey
To quote some wise soul whose name I can't recall  The most dangerous 
thing

in America is Congress in session.


No one's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in 
session.



-- Mark Twain

(Well, maybe.  The attribution isn't as solid as some others.)

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-08 Thread andrew strasfogel
Glad we can agree on something.  This Congress is the most dangerous in the
history of the republic.  Thank God there is a measure of sanity in the
Senate to block all the crazy stuff emerging from the House.



On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 12:23 PM, Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net wrote:

  To quote some wise soul whose name I can't recall  The most dangerous
 thing
 in America is Congress in session.


 No one's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in
 session.


-- Mark Twain

 (Well, maybe.  The attribution isn't as solid as some others.)

 -- Jim




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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-08 Thread Mountain Man
andrew wrote:
 Who pays for the hospital bills of brain-damaged
 unhelmeted motorcyclists without insurance?  We all do, whether you realize
 it or not.

Sounds like death panels to me.
Too much money, let 'im die.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-08 Thread Mountain Man
Randy wrote:
 Some goofball persuaded the government that it was a good idea to promote
 them but it makes no sense to me at all.

A better design of the rate structures would accomplish much, it
seems, rather than limit to the marketplace.
It is the same with water use in western cities.  They do nothing to
discourage abuse of water.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-08 Thread Mountain Man
Dieselhead wrote:
 It is up to US to reclaim the liberty this country originally had by
 chopping gummit everywhere.  School board of corruption, county
 crookervisors, city leechers, state legiscreeps, and congressional
 slimeballs.

Oh, man...
You ruined my plan to garner some reaction from MrPrez.
I have been crafting in my mind a letter to MrPrez regarding his
manner of speaking primarily to bigbiz and congress.
He needs to speak to the citizens, not non-entities.  Non-entities do
not vote him to office.
As a citizen, I can do something in this econ but the MrPrez never
talks to me.  He assumes he can do all things for me and I reject his
offers.  I have resolved that I will die in the ditch before his
crewes come looking for me to drag me to their gov't staffed medical
care system.  Citizens can accomplish things.
Now you have ruined my plan, my 'stick it in your nose, MrPrez' since
now he knows this is merely some teaparty mantra...
Oh, well...
mao

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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-08 Thread Craig
On Fri, 8 Jul 2011 12:31:38 -0400 andrew strasfogel
astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote:

 Glad we can agree on something.  This Congress is the most dangerous in
 the history of the republic.  Thank God there is a measure of sanity in
 the Senate to block all the crazy stuff emerging from the House.

There are those of us who would phrase it, Too bad there is the liberal
element in the Senate that wants to pervert the Constitution and block
all the sensible stuff from the House.

It's past time to put this thread to bed.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-08 Thread andrew strasfogel
I agree.  Let's limit our discussion to those marvels of German automotive
engineering.

On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 1:46 PM, Craig diese...@pisquared.net wrote:

 On Fri, 8 Jul 2011 12:31:38 -0400 andrew strasfogel
 astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote:

  Glad we can agree on something.  This Congress is the most dangerous in
  the history of the republic.  Thank God there is a measure of sanity in
  the Senate to block all the crazy stuff emerging from the House.

 There are those of us who would phrase it, Too bad there is the liberal
 element in the Senate that wants to pervert the Constitution and block
 all the sensible stuff from the House.

 It's past time to put this thread to bed.


 Craig

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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-08 Thread Mitch Haley

andrew strasfogel wrote:

Glad we can agree on something.  This Congress is the most dangerous in the
history of the republic.  Thank God there is a measure of sanity in the
Senate to block all the crazy stuff emerging from the House.



You mean the White House?

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-08 Thread andrew strasfogel
I meant the US House of Representatives as currently consituted, to be
precise.

But hadn't we all agreed to a ceasefire in these political discussions?

On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 2:08 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote:

 andrew strasfogel wrote:

 Glad we can agree on something.  This Congress is the most dangerous in
 the
 history of the republic.  Thank God there is a measure of sanity in the
 Senate to block all the crazy stuff emerging from the House.



 You mean the White House?

 Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Mitch Haley

G Mann wrote:


BTW, to the original poster on this thread.  Try the latest version of LED
lights.


Do they draw a balanced current from BOTH sides of the AC waveform?
Pulling DC from an AC outlet is not a good thing, and that's what LED lights 
used to do.


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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread G Mann
Can't answer that one, it's above my pay grade.

Easy answer perhaps would be to contact the Mfg.  Easy source for the LED
direct replacement bulbs is now Home Depot. I assume there is one near you.

They perhaps have some trick electronics mounted internally to make the LED
bulbs work on AC current.  They are a little spendy for a light bulb, but
when I put them in my off the grid and solar powered  motor home I can now
run lights all night if I want, and not pull down the battery bank.  Same
for the Off the Grid  house.  I'm sold.

When they run, they remain cool to the touch.

On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 4:51 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote:

 G Mann wrote:

  BTW, to the original poster on this thread.  Try the latest version of LED
 lights.


 Do they draw a balanced current from BOTH sides of the AC waveform?
 Pulling DC from an AC outlet is not a good thing, and that's what LED
 lights used to do.

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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Max Dillon
No, AGW (anthropogenic global warming) is about religion, not science, even 
though the true believers wrap it in the cloak of science.

You can't change the terms of the discussion and actually apply reason, you 
will be labeled a denierand scorned, ridiculed, or worse (but you probably 
already know this)

Max
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote:


It is a discussion about quality, measurement of quality, and the use 
of real math to create control charts. In this case, the quality 
being measured is air temp. The truth is that recorded history of 
temps is just a blip in time. When data beyond the last 100 to 150 
years of paper recorded temp history is included, it is very clear 
that we have seen nothing but normal variation.

As I said, read Walter Shewhart's book. It is very enlightening.

Amen, now take it over to Banned, don't want to upset Andrew...

(probably too late)

Max
--
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote:

We were told that CFC's put a hole in the ozone, and caused global
warming. Then they told us that CO2, required for plants to live, is
a terrible thing, and is causing holes in the ozone.

Then facts got in the way of the blarney. Every albore global
warming event had a blizzard befall it. The earf was cooling, not
warming.

so then they told us CFC and CO2 was causing climate change not
global warming

And coal was terrbal because it caused CO2 emissions. And, coal
was terrbal because it released sulfer into the air. Bla bla

NOW, crops that normally need NPK, need NPKS. ISA and ASA has
documented that shortage of sulfur in the soil has caused crop loss.
Sulfur was ordinarily placed on the soil by sulfur from coal burning
settling out of the air onto the cropland. Now, coalburning
facilities have so much emission control that the land no longer gets
sufficient amounts of sulfur. So, sulfur has to be applied to
cropland at extra expense.

TODAY:

Michael Mann, the discredited author of the distorted facts that
were presented as Scientific Proof of global warming has a new
paper out.

Now he claims that the sulfur from coal burning has caused the global
cooling. So, the same thing that caused global warming now causes
global cooling
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/04/global-warming-china-air-pollution_n_889897.html

More lies from a proven liar.


Before anyone falls prey to the lies, be sure to read Deming's
admonition, don't confuse normal variation with special cause
variation. Actually, it is best to read Walter Shewhart's book to
understand variability.

The whole global warming climate change global cooling hoax is
an effort to deliberately make normal variation look like special
cause variation.




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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Mitch Haley

G Mann wrote:

Can't answer that one, it's above my pay grade.

Easy answer perhaps would be to contact the Mfg.  Easy source for the LED
direct replacement bulbs is now Home Depot. I assume there is one near you.

They perhaps have some trick electronics mounted internally to make the LED
bulbs work on AC current.  



I dread trying to get correct technical info from any employee who is exposed to 
consumer contact.


The very first ones (remember the blueish nightlights) consisted of one LED and 
one resistor. I'm hoping the ones with multiple LEDs run half the diodes in each 
direction, or they could power an LED or bank of LEDs from a full wave bridge.


If you've got one, and a multimeter with a diode check function, see if it 
passes current in both directions.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread G Mann
Mitch,

They are sealed units, so access to the circuits is not available to put a
meter on them.. They have 24 LED's and screw into normal light sockets.  The
light emitted is bright, clean, and softwhite.  When I went looking, I
found not all LED bulbs are soft white and in fact many / most are rather
harsh so you have to ask/look/demand the soft white feature.  You will be
glad you did if you want to use them for normal household lighting.

To me, they are so much better than the twisty little congressional mandated
bulbs, which burn out quickly, I've found.  Plus total current usage is
tiny. At $8 a bulb I can't call them cheap.

Grant...

On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 5:59 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote:

 G Mann wrote:

 Can't answer that one, it's above my pay grade.

 Easy answer perhaps would be to contact the Mfg.  Easy source for the LED
 direct replacement bulbs is now Home Depot. I assume there is one near
 you.

 They perhaps have some trick electronics mounted internally to make the
 LED
 bulbs work on AC current.



 I dread trying to get correct technical info from any employee who is
 exposed to consumer contact.

 The very first ones (remember the blueish nightlights) consisted of one LED
 and one resistor. I'm hoping the ones with multiple LEDs run half the diodes
 in each direction, or they could power an LED or bank of LEDs from a full
 wave bridge.

 If you've got one, and a multimeter with a diode check function, see if it
 passes current in both directions.

 Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Mitch Haley

G Mann wrote:

Mitch,

They are sealed units, so access to the circuits is not available to put a
meter on them.. They have 24 LED's and screw into normal light sockets.  The
light emitted is bright, clean, and softwhite.  When I went looking, I
found not all LED bulbs are soft white and in fact many / most are rather
harsh so you have to ask/look/demand the soft white feature.  You will be
glad you did if you want to use them for normal household lighting.



You meter them where the electricity goes in.
In the case of threaded lamp socket bulbs, that's the threads and the center tip 
of the base.


If a full output (equal to a 60-100w incandescent) LED is cool to the touch 
they're a good step up from compact fluorescent.


I really wanted to like CFLs, but after using them for 12-13 years, I'm not 
impressed with the life, or the way they get dimmer over time, and especially 
not happy with the way some of them get very hot and smell like smoked 
electronics when they fail. I've never seen a failed CFL ballast shoot 
sparks/flames, but I've heard of it more than once.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Dieselhead
  Curly fries taste good, so curly fry light bubs HAVE to be good 
(Obummer logic)



Mitch,

They are sealed units, so access to the circuits is not available to put a
meter on them.. They have 24 LED's and screw into normal light sockets.  The
light emitted is bright, clean, and softwhite.  When I went looking, I
found not all LED bulbs are soft white and in fact many / most are rather
harsh so you have to ask/look/demand the soft white feature.  You will be
glad you did if you want to use them for normal household lighting.

To me, they are so much better than the twisty little congressional mandated
bulbs, which burn out quickly, I've found.  Plus total current usage is
tiny. At $8 a bulb I can't call them cheap.

Grant...

On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 5:59 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote:


 G Mann wrote:


 Can't answer that one, it's above my pay grade.

 Easy answer perhaps would be to contact the Mfg.  Easy source for the LED
 direct replacement bulbs is now Home Depot. I assume there is one near
 you.

 They perhaps have some trick electronics mounted internally to make the
 LED
 bulbs work on AC current.




 I dread trying to get correct technical info from any employee who is
 exposed to consumer contact.

 The very first ones (remember the blueish nightlights) consisted of one LED
 and one resistor. I'm hoping the ones with multiple LEDs run half the diodes
 in each direction, or they could power an LED or bank of LEDs from a full
 wave bridge.

 If you've got one, and a multimeter with a diode check function, see if it
 passes current in both directions.

 Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Alex Chamberlain
On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 6:34 AM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote:

 You meter them where the electricity goes in.
 In the case of threaded lamp socket bulbs, that's the threads and the center
 tip of the base.


Or put them in a lamp with a cord and use a Kill-A-Watt.

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Curt Raymond
Who says the compact florescents burn out quick? In fact I've never seen one 
fail that wasn't mounted upside down and the more recent ones seem to tolerate 
inverse mounting reasonably well.

When we moved into our house everything had 100w incandescents, apparently the 
old man who lived there liked it BRIGHT. I've been replacing them as they die, 
I think I've got 2 or 3 left. In their place I'm using 60w equivalent CF bulbs. 
I bought a bunch cheap under some govt program a couple years ago. The oldest 
ones have 5 years on them now.

In fact the light next to my computer is an old Phillips CF that I paid around 
$20 for the year I got out of college. That'd be 11 years ago now. The one in 
my bedroom lamp is one year newer. Both moved with us from our apartment into 
the house 5 years ago...

People always complain Oh you can't use them on a dimmer. Well I've never 
seen much use for dimmers, if I wanted less lights I'd turn on fewer lights, 
not run the lights I have less bright. Our ceiling fan lights all have dimmers 
and as they fail I'm replacing them with normal switches. I've also never 
encountered a dimmer that didn't make noise no matter what kind of bulbs, 
interestingly its just about the same tone as my tinnitus but louder, I'm 
surprised it doesn't drive people crazy... Anyway I don't consider the lack of 
dimmer use a problem since I hate dimmers.

Now the mercury thing, that is a problem but we've seen huge advances in LED 
tech so I figure its just a matter of time. I like the instant on aspect of 
LEDs and their cold tolerance will make them better for outside use, although I 
bought an outside CF a year or two ago that works real well...

-Curt

Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 06:25:31 -0700
From: G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies
Message-ID:
cantulyjzjdtbbkql6auj8jkqur6tu0fscogslpvonojibo4...@mail.gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Mitch,

They are sealed units, so access to the circuits is not available to put a
meter on them.. They have 24 LED's and screw into normal light sockets.  The
light emitted is bright, clean, and softwhite.  When I went looking, I
found not all LED bulbs are soft white and in fact many / most are rather
harsh so you have to ask/look/demand the soft white feature.  You will be
glad you did if you want to use them for normal household lighting.

To me, they are so much better than the twisty little congressional mandated
bulbs, which burn out quickly, I've found.  Plus total current usage is
tiny. At $8 a bulb I can't call them cheap.

Grant.

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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread andrew strasfogel
The price is way down on the corkscrew CFLs and while they can and do burn
out after a year they aren't expensive to repair.  Plus, as a bonus every
time I purchase a CFL and throw out an old incandescent a Tea Bagger gags!!





On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 11:07 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Who says the compact florescents burn out quick? In fact I've never seen
 one fail that wasn't mounted upside down and the more recent ones seem to
 tolerate inverse mounting reasonably well.

 When we moved into our house everything had 100w incandescents, apparently
 the old man who lived there liked it BRIGHT. I've been replacing them as
 they die, I think I've got 2 or 3 left. In their place I'm using 60w
 equivalent CF bulbs. I bought a bunch cheap under some govt program a couple
 years ago. The oldest ones have 5 years on them now.

 In fact the light next to my computer is an old Phillips CF that I paid
 around $20 for the year I got out of college. That'd be 11 years ago now.
 The one in my bedroom lamp is one year newer. Both moved with us from our
 apartment into the house 5 years ago...

 People always complain Oh you can't use them on a dimmer. Well I've never
 seen much use for dimmers, if I wanted less lights I'd turn on fewer lights,
 not run the lights I have less bright. Our ceiling fan lights all have
 dimmers and as they fail I'm replacing them with normal switches. I've also
 never encountered a dimmer that didn't make noise no matter what kind of
 bulbs, interestingly its just about the same tone as my tinnitus but louder,
 I'm surprised it doesn't drive people crazy... Anyway I don't consider the
 lack of dimmer use a problem since I hate dimmers.

 Now the mercury thing, that is a problem but we've seen huge advances in
 LED tech so I figure its just a matter of time. I like the instant on aspect
 of LEDs and their cold tolerance will make them better for outside use,
 although I bought an outside CF a year or two ago that works real well...

 -Curt

 Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 06:25:31 -0700
 From: G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies
 Message-ID:
cantulyjzjdtbbkql6auj8jkqur6tu0fscogslpvonojibo4...@mail.gmail.com
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

 Mitch,

 They are sealed units, so access to the circuits is not available to put a
 meter on them.. They have 24 LED's and screw into normal light sockets.
  The
 light emitted is bright, clean, and softwhite.  When I went looking, I
 found not all LED bulbs are soft white and in fact many / most are rather
 harsh so you have to ask/look/demand the soft white feature.  You will be
 glad you did if you want to use them for normal household lighting.

 To me, they are so much better than the twisty little congressional
 mandated
 bulbs, which burn out quickly, I've found.  Plus total current usage is
 tiny. At $8 a bulb I can't call them cheap.

 Grant.

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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Jim Cathey
I've also never encountered a dimmer that didn't make noise no matter 
what kind of bulbs,


I use a Variac on the bedside (incandescent) reading light.
Zero noise.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Mitch Haley

andrew strasfogel wrote:

The price is way down on the corkscrew CFLs and while they can and do burn
out after a year they aren't expensive to repair.  Plus, as a bonus every
time I purchase a CFL and throw out an old incandescent a Tea Bagger gags!!


What in the world do CFLs have to do with your Tea Party insults?

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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Mountain Man
Grant wrote:
 Respectfully request I be excluded from the to the man group in your quest
 for truth and justice.  I support your quest for independence from the
 nanny state mindless mentality.

That's right - I recall your support a while back in this quest.
And, thanks Mitch - I will be looking at that sight for some
rubber-on-the-road reality to stuff they speak about.  I figured you
would also be connected in to this mentality.

Also thanks for the high recommendation regarding new LED lights.  If
only the stupid american-in-name-only manufacturers would bring
that tech and manufacturing here to these shores we might be able to
afford these units better and work against the current malaise in the
econ.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Mountain Man
Max wrote:
 You can't change the terms of the discussion and actually apply reason, you 
 will be labeled a denierand scorned, ridiculed, or worse (but you probably 
 already know this)


Same with truthers about holocaust  911.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Allan Streib
On Thu, 07 Jul 2011 08:07 -0700, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Who says the compact florescents burn out quick? In fact I've never
 seen one fail that wasn't mounted upside down and the more recent ones
 seem to tolerate inverse mounting reasonably well.

I've used them, I would not say they burn out quickly but they don't
last noticeably longer than incandescents in my real-world usage.

I'm stocking up on incandescents.

Allan

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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread redghost
His realtor told him to use 100 watt to make the place more inviting  
and likely to sell.


I have terrible life with CF, but that is due to not having any  
upright lamps in which to stick them.  For the cost, I will go  
incandescent since those do last upside down.  The power company can  
have my money instead of paying less to light up a $7 bulb that goes  
dead in two months.  Also rather have the blind indians making my  
bulbs than the criminal chinese exporting their mercury over here.




clay

Gump - She is green, simple and runs and runs
Cleo - Used by the Queen of Denial
POS SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers




On Jul 7, 2011, at 8:07 AM, Curt Raymond wrote:

Who says the compact florescents burn out quick? In fact I've never  
seen one fail that wasn't mounted upside down and the more recent  
ones seem to tolerate inverse mounting reasonably well.


When we moved into our house everything had 100w incandescents,  
apparently the old man who lived there liked it BRIGHT. I've been  
replacing them as they die, I think I've got 2 or 3 left. In their  
place I'm using 60w equivalent CF bulbs. I bought a bunch cheap  
under some govt program a couple years ago. The oldest ones have 5  
years on them now.


In fact the light next to my computer is an old Phillips CF that I  
paid around $20 for the year I got out of college. That'd be 11  
years ago now. The one in my bedroom lamp is one year newer. Both  
moved with us from our apartment into the house 5 years ago...


People always complain Oh you can't use them on a dimmer. Well  
I've never seen much use for dimmers, if I wanted less lights I'd  
turn on fewer lights, not run the lights I have less bright. Our  
ceiling fan lights all have dimmers and as they fail I'm replacing  
them with normal switches. I've also never encountered a dimmer that  
didn't make noise no matter what kind of bulbs, interestingly its  
just about the same tone as my tinnitus but louder, I'm surprised it  
doesn't drive people crazy... Anyway I don't consider the lack of  
dimmer use a problem since I hate dimmers.


Now the mercury thing, that is a problem but we've seen huge  
advances in LED tech so I figure its just a matter of time. I like  
the instant on aspect of LEDs and their cold tolerance will make  
them better for outside use, although I bought an outside CF a  
year or two ago that works real well...


-Curt

Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 06:25:31 -0700
From: G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies
Message-ID:

cantulyjzjdtbbkql6auj8jkqur6tu0fscogslpvonojibo4...@mail.gmail.com

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Mitch,

They are sealed units, so access to the circuits is not available to  
put a
meter on them.. They have 24 LED's and screw into normal light  
sockets.  The
light emitted is bright, clean, and softwhite.  When I went  
looking, I
found not all LED bulbs are soft white and in fact many / most are  
rather
harsh so you have to ask/look/demand the soft white feature.  You  
will be

glad you did if you want to use them for normal household lighting.

To me, they are so much better than the twisty little congressional  
mandated
bulbs, which burn out quickly, I've found.  Plus total current usage  
is

tiny. At $8 a bulb I can't call them cheap.

Grant.

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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Curt Raymond
Must be something about my house I guess. I don't think I've ever replaced a 
CFL...

The one next to my furnace is totally upside down, my back porch light (a CFL 
Spotlight which is a CFL with a reflector) is almost upside down and the one 
over the dryer is sideways as is the one in the range hood.

-Curt

Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 09:22:08 -0700
From: redghost redgh...@comcast.net
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies
Message-ID: e0aaf44c-42bf-466d-b547-38c3659d2...@comcast.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

His realtor told him to use 100 watt to make the place more inviting 
and likely to sell.

I have terrible life with CF, but that is due to not having any 
upright lamps in which to stick them.  For the cost, I will go 
incandescent since those do last upside down.  The power company can 
have my money instead of paying less to light up a $7 bulb that goes 
dead in two months.  Also rather have the blind indians making my 
bulbs than the criminal chinese exporting their mercury over here.



clay

Gump - She is green, simple and runs and runs
Cleo - Used by the Queen of Denial
POS SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers





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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread redghost
could be my 80+ year old wiring, though most of it is actually less  
than 11 years old.  No real idea why I get crap CFL life.  Still not  
cost effective to use the stupid things.  I like the heat coming off a  
bulb in the winter.  Reduces heating costs.


clay

Gump - She is green, simple and runs and runs
Cleo - Used by the Queen of Denial
POS SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers




On Jul 7, 2011, at 10:54 AM, Curt Raymond wrote:

Must be something about my house I guess. I don't think I've ever  
replaced a CFL...


The one next to my furnace is totally upside down, my back porch  
light (a CFL Spotlight which is a CFL with a reflector) is almost  
upside down and the one over the dryer is sideways as is the one in  
the range hood.


-Curt

Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 09:22:08 -0700
From: redghost redgh...@comcast.net
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies
Message-ID: e0aaf44c-42bf-466d-b547-38c3659d2...@comcast.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

His realtor told him to use 100 watt to make the place more inviting
and likely to sell.

I have terrible life with CF, but that is due to not having any
upright lamps in which to stick them.  For the cost, I will go
incandescent since those do last upside down.  The power company can
have my money instead of paying less to light up a $7 bulb that goes
dead in two months.  Also rather have the blind indians making my
bulbs than the criminal chinese exporting their mercury over here.



clay

Gump - She is green, simple and runs and runs
Cleo - Used by the Queen of Denial
POS SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers





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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread astrasfogel
They are pro incandescent.  
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net
Sender: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com
Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 11:45:24 
To: Mercedes Discussion Listmercedes@okiebenz.com
Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

andrew strasfogel wrote:
 The price is way down on the corkscrew CFLs and while they can and do burn
 out after a year they aren't expensive to repair.  Plus, as a bonus every
 time I purchase a CFL and throw out an old incandescent a Tea Bagger gags!!

What in the world do CFLs have to do with your Tea Party insults?

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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Mitch Haley

astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote:
They are pro incandescent.  


I must have missed that in the 2010 election news.
Care to cite an example?
Mitch

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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Randy Bennell

On 07/07/2011 12:58 PM, redghost wrote:
could be my 80+ year old wiring, though most of it is actually less 
than 11 years old.  No real idea why I get crap CFL life.  Still not 
cost effective to use the stupid things.  I like the heat coming off a 
bulb in the winter.  Reduces heating costs.


clay

My house is not all that old - built in 1981. I get no long life from 
the CFL bulbs either. I think they are intended to be installed upright 
only in table lamps but we are being told to put them all over the 
house.I don't like the light they give off either. As I get older, I 
find I need more light, not less and they seem to give off less light 
than a comparable incandscent lamp.


The other thing that I object to is that they do not appear to be 
intended to fit inside most existing light fixtures. That is no saving 
if they expect me to replace all of my fixtures. In addition, the stores 
do not appear to have many new fixtures that are intended to house the 
CFL bulbs.


I have hopes for the LED lamps but they don't appear to be quite ready 
yet either.


Randy

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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread OK Don
I have almost all CFL in our house. The first few years we tried them, they
only lasted a year or two. The next set we bought are still running with one
exception. They are standard models (nothing special), nd are upside down,
right side up, sideways, inside and outside. this house was built in 1979.

Yes, I'll be replacing them with LEDs when they do die.

On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 1:45 PM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote:

 On 07/07/2011 12:58 PM, redghost wrote:

 could be my 80+ year old wiring, though most of it is actually less than
 11 years old.  No real idea why I get crap CFL life.  Still not cost
 effective to use the stupid things.  I like the heat coming off a bulb in
 the winter.  Reduces heating costs.

 clay

  My house is not all that old - built in 1981. I get no long life from the
 CFL bulbs either. I think they are intended to be installed upright only in
 table lamps but we are being told to put them all over the house.I don't
 like the light they give off either. As I get older, I find I need more
 light, not less and they seem to give off less light than a comparable
 incandscent lamp.

 The other thing that I object to is that they do not appear to be intended
 to fit inside most existing light fixtures. That is no saving if they expect
 me to replace all of my fixtures. In addition, the stores do not appear to
 have many new fixtures that are intended to house the CFL bulbs.

 I have hopes for the LED lamps but they don't appear to be quite ready yet
 either.

 Randy




-- 
OK Don
2001 ML320
1992 300D 2.5T
1990 300D 2.5T
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Allan Streib
I don't identify as a tea partier, and I have no problem with you using CFLs in 
your home if that's what you want to do.  I do have a problem with the federal 
government micromanaging what should be a free market choice.  It's nothing to 
do with incandescent bulbs in particular, they are just a concrete example.

Allan


On Thu, 07 Jul 2011 18:32 +, astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote:
 They are pro incandescent.  
 Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
 

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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread andrew strasfogel
Same as seat belt and helmet laws - they are designed to promote the public
welfare and save public costs at a small cost in personal freedom (the right
to act recklessly?).  Who pays for the hospital bills of brain-damaged
unhelmeted motorcyclists without insurance?  We all do, whether you realize
it or not.

Similarly, the cumulative savings in energy efficiency from a national
perspective are worth the cost and inconvenience - as determined by your/our
democratically elected representatives - of phasing out incandescent bulbs
for more efficient lighting.

On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote:

 I don't identify as a tea partier, and I have no problem with you using
 CFLs in your home if that's what you want to do.  I do have a problem with
 the federal government micromanaging what should be a free market choice.
  It's nothing to do with incandescent bulbs in particular, they are just a
 concrete example.

 Allan


 On Thu, 07 Jul 2011 18:32 +, astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote:
  They are pro incandescent.
  Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
 

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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Randy Bennell

On 07/07/2011 3:59 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:

Same as seat belt and helmet laws - they are designed to promote the public
welfare and save public costs at a small cost in personal freedom (the right
to act recklessly?).  Who pays for the hospital bills of brain-damaged
unhelmeted motorcyclists without insurance?  We all do, whether you realize
it or not.

Similarly, the cumulative savings in energy efficiency from a national
perspective are worth the cost and inconvenience - as determined by your/our
democratically elected representatives - of phasing out incandescent bulbs
for more efficient lighting.

Now come on Andrew - why not just mandate that all lights have to be 
turned off by 9 PM if all you want to do is save electrical power?


Or we could ban bulbs bigger than 40 watts?

Or how about we turn off all of the power after 9PM? We could freeze in 
the dark but think of the power saved!


I don't buy into the nonsense about CFL bulbs.

Some goofball persuaded the government that it was a good idea to 
promote them but it makes no sense to me at all.


Randy

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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Dieselhead
No, they are Pro-choice.  Show me exactly wherein the US constitution 
it gives the federal gummit the power to dictate what citizens choose 
to buy or not buy.


Same thing goes for the shovey VoltZap




They are pro incandescent.


andrew strasfogel wrote:

 The price is way down on the corkscrew CFLs and while they can and do burn
 out after a year they aren't expensive to repair.  Plus, as a bonus every
 time I purchase a CFL and throw out an old incandescent a Tea Bagger gags!!


What in the world do CFLs have to do with your Tea Party insults?


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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread astrasfogel
Because our  elected representatives know better than to enact something so 
idiotic.  
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca
Sender: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com
Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 16:17:08 
To: Mercedes Discussion Listmercedes@okiebenz.com
Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

On 07/07/2011 3:59 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:
 Same as seat belt and helmet laws - they are designed to promote the public
 welfare and save public costs at a small cost in personal freedom (the right
 to act recklessly?).  Who pays for the hospital bills of brain-damaged
 unhelmeted motorcyclists without insurance?  We all do, whether you realize
 it or not.

 Similarly, the cumulative savings in energy efficiency from a national
 perspective are worth the cost and inconvenience - as determined by your/our
 democratically elected representatives - of phasing out incandescent bulbs
 for more efficient lighting.

Now come on Andrew - why not just mandate that all lights have to be 
turned off by 9 PM if all you want to do is save electrical power?

Or we could ban bulbs bigger than 40 watts?

Or how about we turn off all of the power after 9PM? We could freeze in 
the dark but think of the power saved!

I don't buy into the nonsense about CFL bulbs.

Some goofball persuaded the government that it was a good idea to 
promote them but it makes no sense to me at all.

Randy

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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread astrasfogel
They are anti choice for what really matters - women's rights.   
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com
Sender: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 16:07:49 
To: Mercedes Discussion Listmercedes@okiebenz.com
Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

No, they are Pro-choice.  Show me exactly wherein the US constitution 
it gives the federal gummit the power to dictate what citizens choose 
to buy or not buy.

Same thing goes for the shovey VoltZap



They are pro incandescent.


andrew strasfogel wrote:
  The price is way down on the corkscrew CFLs and while they can and do burn
  out after a year they aren't expensive to repair.  Plus, as a bonus every
  time I purchase a CFL and throw out an old incandescent a Tea Bagger gags!!

What in the world do CFLs have to do with your Tea Party insults?

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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Dieselhead


Similarly, the cumulative savings in energy efficiency from a national
perspective are worth the cost and inconvenience - as determined by your/our
democratically elected representatives - of phasing out incandescent bulbs
for more efficient lighting.



The gummit is given express powers for defense and a few other 
things.  The Federal gummit has no power to dictate what I buy.


As for paying for the stupidity of others, that also needs to be 
changed.  THe gummit does not belong in the charity biz.  That is the 
pervue of churches, the salvation army, goodwill and other 
organizations.  We have to elect citizens who understand the 
constitution, not a bunch or currupt lawyers.  (that sure is 
redundant, isn't it?)   (RB and DS excluded)


It is up to US to reclaim the liberty this country originally had by 
chopping gummit everywhere.  School board of corruption, county 
crookervisors, city leechers, state legiscreeps, and congressional 
slimeballs.


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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Dieselhead

Here here!  Right on Randy!

We can save lots of power using andrew's logic by turning off the 
juice in DC and surrounding areas, except from noon to 1 PM daily.




On 07/07/2011 3:59 PM, andrew strasfogel wrote:

Same as seat belt and helmet laws - they are designed to promote the public
welfare and save public costs at a small cost in personal freedom (the right
to act recklessly?).  Who pays for the hospital bills of brain-damaged
unhelmeted motorcyclists without insurance?  We all do, whether you realize
it or not.

Similarly, the cumulative savings in energy efficiency from a national
perspective are worth the cost and inconvenience - as determined by your/our
democratically elected representatives - of phasing out incandescent bulbs
for more efficient lighting.

Now come on Andrew - why not just mandate that all lights have to be 
turned off by 9 PM if all you want to do is save electrical power?


Or we could ban bulbs bigger than 40 watts?

Or how about we turn off all of the power after 9PM? We could freeze 
in the dark but think of the power saved!


I don't buy into the nonsense about CFL bulbs.

Some goofball persuaded the government that it was a good idea to 
promote them but it makes no sense to me at all.


Randy


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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Dieselhead

andrew, your slip is showing

They are anti choice for what really matters - women's rights.  
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


-Original Message-
From: Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com
Sender: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 16:07:49
To: Mercedes Discussion Listmercedes@okiebenz.com
Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

No, they are Pro-choice.  Show me exactly wherein the US constitution
it gives the federal gummit the power to dictate what citizens choose
to buy or not buy.

Same thing goes for the shovey VoltZap




They are pro incandescent.


andrew strasfogel wrote:

  The price is way down on the corkscrew CFLs and while they can and do burn
  out after a year they aren't expensive to repair.  Plus, as a bonus every
  time I purchase a CFL and throw out an old incandescent a Tea 
Bagger gags!!


What in the world do CFLs have to do with your Tea Party insults?


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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Mitch Haley

astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote:
Because our  elected representatives know better than to enact something so idiotic.  
  



ROTFL!

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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Max Dillon
I pay my power bill, not the government, so your analogy fails. What if I don't 
want a mercury-containing product, would rather pay a higher power bill? This 
is an infringement of my liberty for false reasons (global warming).

Max
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

andrew strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote:

Same as seat belt and helmet laws - they are designed to promote the public
welfare and save public costs at a small cost in personal freedom (the right
to act recklessly?). Who pays for the hospital bills of brain-damaged
unhelmeted motorcyclists without insurance? We all do, whether you realize
it or not.

Similarly, the cumulative savings in energy efficiency from a national
perspective are worth the cost and inconvenience - as determined by your/our
democratically elected representatives - of phasing out incandescent bulbs
for more efficient lighting.

On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 4:34 PM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote:

 I don't identify as a tea partier, and I have no problem with you using
 CFLs in your home if that's what you want to do. I do have a problem with
 the federal government micromanaging what should be a free market choice.
 It's nothing to do with incandescent bulbs in particular, they are just a
 concrete example.

 Allan


 On Thu, 07 Jul 2011 18:32 +, astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote:
  They are pro incandescent.
  Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
 

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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Craig
On Wed, 6 Jul 2011 18:57:11 -0500 Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote:

 It is a discussion about quality, measurement of quality, and the use 
 of real math to create control charts.  In this case, the quality 
 being measured is air temp.  The truth is that recorded history of 
 temps is just a blip in time.  When data beyond the last 100 to 150 
 years of paper recorded temp history is included, it is very clear 
 that we have seen nothing but normal variation.
 
 As I said, read Walter Shewhart's book.  It is very enlightening.

The attached slides were generated by a colleague at work who was just
fiddling around when he had some time to waste


Craig
-- next part --
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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread G Mann
So anyone... is this thread now in a section off the MBZ discussion
list?
Cause I would like to pass along a link that shows an example of our modern
government at work in a short video clip.
I'm a new guy on this list and don't wish to unduly bend any
sensibilities..

On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 8:02 PM, Craig diese...@pisquared.net wrote:

 On Wed, 6 Jul 2011 18:57:11 -0500 Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote:

  It is a discussion about quality, measurement of quality, and the use
  of real math to create control charts.  In this case, the quality
  being measured is air temp.  The truth is that recorded history of
  temps is just a blip in time.  When data beyond the last 100 to 150
  years of paper recorded temp history is included, it is very clear
  that we have seen nothing but normal variation.
 
  As I said, read Walter Shewhart's book.  It is very enlightening.

 The attached slides were generated by a colleague at work who was just
 fiddling around when he had some time to waste


 Craig
 -- next part --
 A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
 Name: Ice.Core.Temperature.Time.Series.pdf
 Type: application/pdf
 Size: 200960 bytes
 Desc: not available
 URL: 
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20110706/350330a9/attachment.pdf
 
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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread WILTON
BTW - an interesting little aside, well, to me, anyway:  I spent a night at 
the site of the Greenland ice coring project by the National Science 
Foundation in July, 1978.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Craig diese...@pisquared.net

To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2011 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies



On Wed, 6 Jul 2011 18:57:11 -0500 Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote:


It is a discussion about quality, measurement of quality, and the use
of real math to create control charts.  In this case, the quality
being measured is air temp.  The truth is that recorded history of
temps is just a blip in time.  When data beyond the last 100 to 150
years of paper recorded temp history is included, it is very clear
that we have seen nothing but normal variation.

As I said, read Walter Shewhart's book.  It is very enlightening.


The attached slides were generated by a colleague at work who was just
fiddling around when he had some time to waste


Craig
-- next part --
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Ice.Core.Temperature.Time.Series.pdf
Type: application/pdf
Size: 200960 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: 
http://mail.okiebenz.com/pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com/attachments/20110706/350330a9/attachment.pdf

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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Allan Streib
Not to speak for Kaleb but IMO it's probably gone as far as it should on
this list.  I think everyone has said his piece and it's stayed
reasonably civil.

Could continue on the Banned list if you really want to.

G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com writes:

 So anyone... is this thread now in a section off the MBZ
 discussion list?  Cause I would like to pass along a link that shows
 an example of our modern government at work in a short video clip.
 I'm a new guy on this list and don't wish to unduly bend any
 sensibilities..


-- 
1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread Dieselhead
There is NO constitutional basis for stealing from citizens to fund 
the aftermath of someone else's stupidity.  And, in case you didn't 
notice, you really twisted to come up with a diversion from the 
question.  Why not answe the question?



Show me exactly where in the US constitution
it gives the federal gummit the power to dictate what citizens choose

to buy or not buy.



They are anti choice for what really matters - women's rights.  
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


-Original Message-
From: Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com
Sender: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com
Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2011 16:07:49
To: Mercedes Discussion Listmercedes@okiebenz.com
Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

No, they are Pro-choice.  Show me exactly wherein the US constitution
it gives the federal gummit the power to dictate what citizens choose
to buy or not buy.

Same thing goes for the shovey VoltZap




They are pro incandescent.


andrew strasfogel wrote:

  The price is way down on the corkscrew CFLs and while they can and do burn
  out after a year they aren't expensive to repair.  Plus, as a bonus every
  time I purchase a CFL and throw out an old incandescent a Tea 
Bagger gags!!


What in the world do CFLs have to do with your Tea Party insults?


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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-07 Thread G Mann
Good enough then.. I'll let it rest.

On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 7:25 PM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote:

 Not to speak for Kaleb but IMO it's probably gone as far as it should on
 this list.  I think everyone has said his piece and it's stayed
 reasonably civil.

 Could continue on the Banned list if you really want to.

 G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com writes:

  So anyone... is this thread now in a section off the MBZ
  discussion list?  Cause I would like to pass along a link that shows
  an example of our modern government at work in a short video clip.
  I'm a new guy on this list and don't wish to unduly bend any
  sensibilities..
 

 --
 1983 300D

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[MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-06 Thread Dieselhead
We were told that CFC's put a hole in the ozone, and caused global 
warming.  Then they told us that CO2, required for plants to live, is 
a terrible thing, and is causing holes in the ozone.


Then facts got in the way of the blarney.  Every albore global 
warming event had a blizzard befall it.  The earf was cooling, not 
warming.


so then they told us CFC and CO2 was causing climate change not 
global warming


And coal was terrbal because it caused CO2 emissions.  And, coal 
was terrbal because it released sulfer into the air.  Bla bla


NOW, crops that normally need NPK, need NPKS.  ISA and ASA has 
documented that shortage of sulfur in the soil has caused crop loss. 
Sulfur was ordinarily placed on the soil by sulfur from coal burning 
settling out of the air onto the cropland.  Now, coalburning 
facilities have so much emission control that the land no longer gets 
sufficient amounts of sulfur.  So, sulfur has to be applied to 
cropland at extra expense.


TODAY:

Michael Mann, the discredited author of the distorted facts that 
were presented as Scientific Proof of global warming has a new 
paper out.


Now he claims that the sulfur from coal burning has caused the global 
cooling.  So, the same thing that caused global warming now causes 
global cooling

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/04/global-warming-china-air-pollution_n_889897.html

More lies from a proven liar.


Before anyone falls prey to the lies, be sure to read Deming's 
admonition, don't confuse normal variation with special cause 
variation.  Actually, it is best to read Walter Shewhart's book to 
understand variability.


The whole global warming climate change global cooling hoax is 
an effort to deliberately make normal variation look like special 
cause variation.





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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-06 Thread Randy Bennell
Hey, you are way behind on this. global warming no longer is the catch 
phrase (probably because it is not true). Now they say, climate change 
because that covers whatever they need it to.


Randy

On 06/07/2011 3:58 PM, Dieselhead wrote:
We were told that CFC's put a hole in the ozone, and caused global 
warming.  Then they told us that CO2, required for plants to live, is 
a terrible thing, and is causing holes in the ozone.


Then facts got in the way of the blarney.  Every albore global 
warming event had a blizzard befall it.  The earf was cooling, not 
warming.


so then they told us CFC and CO2 was causing climate change not 
global warming


And coal was terrbal because it caused CO2 emissions.  And, coal was 
terrbal because it released sulfer into the air.  Bla bla


NOW, crops that normally need NPK, need NPKS.  ISA and ASA has 
documented that shortage of sulfur in the soil has caused crop loss. 
Sulfur was ordinarily placed on the soil by sulfur from coal burning 
settling out of the air onto the cropland.  Now, coalburning 
facilities have so much emission control that the land no longer gets 
sufficient amounts of sulfur.  So, sulfur has to be applied to 
cropland at extra expense.


TODAY:

Michael Mann, the discredited author of the distorted facts that 
were presented as Scientific Proof of global warming has a new 
paper out.


Now he claims that the sulfur from coal burning has caused the global 
cooling.  So, the same thing that caused global warming now causes 
global cooling
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/04/global-warming-china-air-pollution_n_889897.html 



More lies from a proven liar.


Before anyone falls prey to the lies, be sure to read Deming's 
admonition, don't confuse normal variation with special cause 
variation.  Actually, it is best to read Walter Shewhart's book to 
understand variability.


The whole global warming climate change global cooling hoax is 
an effort to deliberately make normal variation look like special 
cause variation.





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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-06 Thread Dieselhead
I got to that if you read on.  Now Climate change is passe` and 
they are on to global cooling.


Hey, you are way behind on this. global warming no longer is the 
catch phrase (probably because it is not true). Now they say, 
climate change because that covers whatever they need it to.


Randy

On 06/07/2011 3:58 PM, Dieselhead wrote:
We were told that CFC's put a hole in the ozone, and caused global 
warming.  Then they told us that CO2, required for plants to live, 
is a terrible thing, and is causing holes in the ozone.


Then facts got in the way of the blarney.  Every albore global 
warming event had a blizzard befall it.  The earf was cooling, not 
warming.


so then they told us CFC and CO2 was causing climate change not 
global warming


And coal was terrbal because it caused CO2 emissions.  And, coal 
was terrbal because it released sulfer into the air.  Bla bla


NOW, crops that normally need NPK, need NPKS.  ISA and ASA has 
documented that shortage of sulfur in the soil has caused crop 
loss. Sulfur was ordinarily placed on the soil by sulfur from coal 
burning settling out of the air onto the cropland.  Now, 
coalburning facilities have so much emission control that the land 
no longer gets sufficient amounts of sulfur.  So, sulfur has to be 
applied to cropland at extra expense.


TODAY:

Michael Mann, the discredited author of the distorted facts that 
were presented as Scientific Proof of global warming has a 
new paper out.


Now he claims that the sulfur from coal burning has caused the 
global cooling.  So, the same thing that caused global warming 
now causes global cooling

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/04/global-warming-china-air-pollution_n_889897.html

More lies from a proven liar.


Before anyone falls prey to the lies, be sure to read Deming's 
admonition, don't confuse normal variation with special cause 
variation.  Actually, it is best to read Walter Shewhart's book to 
understand variability.


The whole global warming climate change global cooling hoax 
is an effort to deliberately make normal variation look like 
special cause variation.





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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-06 Thread Randy Bennell
Hey, wait a minute. Global Cooling was what they were on about 10 or 20 
years ago.


Randy

On 06/07/2011 4:50 PM, Dieselhead wrote:
I got to that if you read on.  Now Climate change is passe` and they 
are on to global cooling.


Hey, you are way behind on this. global warming no longer is the 
catch phrase (probably because it is not true). Now they say, 
climate change because that covers whatever they need it to.


Randy

On 06/07/2011 3:58 PM, Dieselhead wrote:
We were told that CFC's put a hole in the ozone, and caused global 
warming.  Then they told us that CO2, required for plants to live, 
is a terrible thing, and is causing holes in the ozone.


Then facts got in the way of the blarney.  Every albore global 
warming event had a blizzard befall it.  The earf was cooling, not 
warming.


so then they told us CFC and CO2 was causing climate change not 
global warming


And coal was terrbal because it caused CO2 emissions.  And, coal 
was terrbal because it released sulfer into the air.  Bla bla


NOW, crops that normally need NPK, need NPKS.  ISA and ASA has 
documented that shortage of sulfur in the soil has caused crop loss. 
Sulfur was ordinarily placed on the soil by sulfur from coal burning 
settling out of the air onto the cropland.  Now, coalburning 
facilities have so much emission control that the land no longer 
gets sufficient amounts of sulfur.  So, sulfur has to be applied to 
cropland at extra expense.


TODAY:

Michael Mann, the discredited author of the distorted facts that 
were presented as Scientific Proof of global warming has a new 
paper out.


Now he claims that the sulfur from coal burning has caused the 
global cooling.  So, the same thing that caused global warming 
now causes global cooling
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/04/global-warming-china-air-pollution_n_889897.html 



More lies from a proven liar.


Before anyone falls prey to the lies, be sure to read Deming's 
admonition, don't confuse normal variation with special cause 
variation.  Actually, it is best to read Walter Shewhart's book to 
understand variability.


The whole global warming climate change global cooling hoax is 
an effort to deliberately make normal variation look like special 
cause variation.





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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-06 Thread Max Dillon
Amen, now take it over to Banned, don't want to upset Andrew...

(probably too late)

Max
-- 
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote:

We were told that CFC's put a hole in the ozone, and caused global 
warming. Then they told us that CO2, required for plants to live, is 
a terrible thing, and is causing holes in the ozone.

Then facts got in the way of the blarney. Every albore global 
warming event had a blizzard befall it. The earf was cooling, not 
warming.

so then they told us CFC and CO2 was causing climate change not 
global warming

And coal was terrbal because it caused CO2 emissions. And, coal 
was terrbal because it released sulfer into the air. Bla bla

NOW, crops that normally need NPK, need NPKS. ISA and ASA has 
documented that shortage of sulfur in the soil has caused crop loss. 
Sulfur was ordinarily placed on the soil by sulfur from coal burning 
settling out of the air onto the cropland. Now, coalburning 
facilities have so much emission control that the land no longer gets 
sufficient amounts of sulfur. So, sulfur has to be applied to 
cropland at extra expense.

TODAY:

Michael Mann, the discredited author of the distorted facts that 
were presented as Scientific Proof of global warming has a new 
paper out.

Now he claims that the sulfur from coal burning has caused the global 
cooling. So, the same thing that caused global warming now causes 
global cooling
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/04/global-warming-china-air-pollution_n_889897.html

More lies from a proven liar.


Before anyone falls prey to the lies, be sure to read Deming's 
admonition, don't confuse normal variation with special cause 
variation. Actually, it is best to read Walter Shewhart's book to 
understand variability.

The whole global warming climate change global cooling hoax is 
an effort to deliberately make normal variation look like special 
cause variation.




_

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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-06 Thread Dieselhead
Naa, You are behind the times!   That was 30-40 years ago...  The 
coming Ice age.  I first saw it in popular science about 1972 or 3 I 
think.  It hit the electronic media (big news networks) about 3-5 
years later.


Same MO, but not nearly as sinister.  Again, it was trying to make 
normal variation look like special cause variation.  Read Shewhart. 
This time it is all about taxing energy to control us lemmings.  IT 
is very sinister this itme, using falsehoods to create  false 
Science  to steal trillions form the citizenry.


America is remarkable.  When the people are set free, the economy 
booms [and the taxes roll in.]  Right now, we are not free.  We are 
slaves of the gummit.  Simon Conway, LEGAL immigrant, and US 
Citizen.  (actually, there is only one kind of immigrant, the legal 
kind.  All others are illegal aliens)




Hey, wait a minute. Global Cooling was what they were on about 10 or 
20 years ago.


Randy

On 06/07/2011 4:50 PM, Dieselhead wrote:
I got to that if you read on.  Now Climate change is passe` and 
they are on to global cooling.


Hey, you are way behind on this. global warming no longer is the 
catch phrase (probably because it is not true). Now they say, 
climate change because that covers whatever they need it to.


Randy

On 06/07/2011 3:58 PM, Dieselhead wrote:
We were told that CFC's put a hole in the ozone, and caused 
global warming.  Then they told us that CO2, required for plants 
to live, is a terrible thing, and is causing holes in the ozone.


Then facts got in the way of the blarney.  Every albore global 
warming event had a blizzard befall it.  The earf was cooling, 
not warming.


so then they told us CFC and CO2 was causing climate change not 
global warming


And coal was terrbal because it caused CO2 emissions.  And, 
coal was terrbal because it released sulfer into the air.  Bla 
bla


NOW, crops that normally need NPK, need NPKS.  ISA and ASA has 
documented that shortage of sulfur in the soil has caused crop 
loss. Sulfur was ordinarily placed on the soil by sulfur from 
coal burning settling out of the air onto the cropland.  Now, 
coalburning facilities have so much emission control that the 
land no longer gets sufficient amounts of sulfur.  So, sulfur has 
to be applied to cropland at extra expense.


TODAY:

Michael Mann, the discredited author of the distorted facts 
that were presented as Scientific Proof of global warming 
has a new paper out.


Now he claims that the sulfur from coal burning has caused the 
global cooling.  So, the same thing that caused global warming 
now causes global cooling

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/04/global-warming-china-air-pollution_n_889897.html

More lies from a proven liar.


Before anyone falls prey to the lies, be sure to read Deming's 
admonition, don't confuse normal variation with special cause 
variation.  Actually, it is best to read Walter Shewhart's book 
to understand variability.


The whole global warming climate change global cooling hoax 
is an effort to deliberately make normal variation look like 
special cause variation.





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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-06 Thread Dieselhead


It is a discussion about quality, measurement of quality, and the use 
of real math to create control charts.  In this case, the quality 
being measured is air temp.  The truth is that recorded history of 
temps is just a blip in time.  When data beyond the last 100 to 150 
years of paper recorded temp history is included, it is very clear 
that we have seen nothing but normal variation.


As I said, read Walter Shewhart's book.  It is very enlightening.


Amen, now take it over to Banned, don't want to upset Andrew...

(probably too late)

Max
--
Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote:

We were told that CFC's put a hole in the ozone, and caused global
warming. Then they told us that CO2, required for plants to live, is
a terrible thing, and is causing holes in the ozone.

Then facts got in the way of the blarney. Every albore global
warming event had a blizzard befall it. The earf was cooling, not
warming.

so then they told us CFC and CO2 was causing climate change not
global warming

And coal was terrbal because it caused CO2 emissions. And, coal
was terrbal because it released sulfer into the air. Bla bla

NOW, crops that normally need NPK, need NPKS. ISA and ASA has
documented that shortage of sulfur in the soil has caused crop loss.
Sulfur was ordinarily placed on the soil by sulfur from coal burning
settling out of the air onto the cropland. Now, coalburning
facilities have so much emission control that the land no longer gets
sufficient amounts of sulfur. So, sulfur has to be applied to
cropland at extra expense.

TODAY:

Michael Mann, the discredited author of the distorted facts that
were presented as Scientific Proof of global warming has a new
paper out.

Now he claims that the sulfur from coal burning has caused the global
cooling. So, the same thing that caused global warming now causes
global cooling
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/04/global-warming-china-air-pollution_n_889897.html

More lies from a proven liar.


Before anyone falls prey to the lies, be sure to read Deming's
admonition, don't confuse normal variation with special cause
variation. Actually, it is best to read Walter Shewhart's book to
understand variability.

The whole global warming climate change global cooling hoax is
an effort to deliberately make normal variation look like special
cause variation.




_

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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-06 Thread G Mann
To quote one of our new tzars Never let a good crisis go unused

Remember, what we must have to save us from these terrors of climate is more
and bigger government.  Just send in your money.. all of it.

To bad we can't apply the Patriot Act to the terrorist politicians who
spread fear with an oil slick of lies to help us save ourselves...

Soap box free.
Grant...
Diesel, the natural fuel that grows on the ground. [Bio Diesel that is]
AZ

On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 4:57 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote:


 It is a discussion about quality, measurement of quality, and the use of
 real math to create control charts.  In this case, the quality being
 measured is air temp.  The truth is that recorded history of temps is just a
 blip in time.  When data beyond the last 100 to 150 years of paper recorded
 temp history is included, it is very clear that we have seen nothing but
 normal variation.

 As I said, read Walter Shewhart's book.  It is very enlightening.


  Amen, now take it over to Banned, don't want to upset Andrew...

 (probably too late)

 Max
 --
 Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

 Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote:

 We were told that CFC's put a hole in the ozone, and caused global
 warming. Then they told us that CO2, required for plants to live, is
 a terrible thing, and is causing holes in the ozone.

 Then facts got in the way of the blarney. Every albore global
 warming event had a blizzard befall it. The earf was cooling, not
 warming.

 so then they told us CFC and CO2 was causing climate change not
 global warming

 And coal was terrbal because it caused CO2 emissions. And, coal
 was terrbal because it released sulfer into the air. Bla bla

 NOW, crops that normally need NPK, need NPKS. ISA and ASA has
 documented that shortage of sulfur in the soil has caused crop loss.
 Sulfur was ordinarily placed on the soil by sulfur from coal burning
 settling out of the air onto the cropland. Now, coalburning
 facilities have so much emission control that the land no longer gets
 sufficient amounts of sulfur. So, sulfur has to be applied to
 cropland at extra expense.

 TODAY:

 Michael Mann, the discredited author of the distorted facts that
 were presented as Scientific Proof of global warming has a new
 paper out.

 Now he claims that the sulfur from coal burning has caused the global
 cooling. So, the same thing that caused global warming now causes
 global cooling
 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/**2011/07/04/global-warming-**
 china-air-pollution_n_889897.**htmlhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/04/global-warming-china-air-pollution_n_889897.html

 More lies from a proven liar.


 Before anyone falls prey to the lies, be sure to read Deming's
 admonition, don't confuse normal variation with special cause
 variation. Actually, it is best to read Walter Shewhart's book to
 understand variability.

 The whole global warming climate change global cooling hoax is
 an effort to deliberately make normal variation look like special
 cause variation.




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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-06 Thread Barry Stark
On a related thought, I was listening to the radio while driving this
afternoon and was reminded that we will only be able to buy incandescent
light bulbs for about 6 months till the new federal ban on them takes place.
So the question is, if I go ahead and buy 20 years worth of bulbs to store
in my attic, my wife hates fluorescents plus we have a bunch of dimmer
circuits, will the representatives of the fed nanny state police break down
my doors and search the house if they find out that I am still using them
and even hoarding them. Woe is me. If I only had more carbon credits like
Mr. Global warming so I could afford to burn all those megawatts and get a
free pass. Ya know, I think I'll be all right if I am very careful to hide
them with the ammo for my guns and my collection of happy Meal toys. Oh
yes, and I just saw this a few minutes ago, they just had a story on the TV
that our fearless leader is trying to pass some sort of law that food
manufacturers will no longer be able to advertise junk food on TV. Sorry
Tony the tiger. Cereals with sugar are too dangerous to be advertised on TV.
Somebody may actually want to eat that hazardous stuff. Prescription drugs?
Nah, they're really safe and so good for you too. The FDA and AMA said
so.ya they're OK. Oh my, what ever would I do without the feds, I'm
s lucky to have the federal government to protect me from myself and
think for me too.

Barry

 
 To quote one of our new tzars Never let a good crisis go unused
 
 Remember, what we must have to save us from these terrors of climate is
 more
 and bigger government.  Just send in your money.. all of it.



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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-06 Thread G Mann
Puts the term Declaration of Independence in perspective, doesn't it?


On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Barry Stark barryst...@verizon.net wrote:

 On a related thought, I was listening to the radio while driving this
 afternoon and was reminded that we will only be able to buy incandescent
 light bulbs for about 6 months till the new federal ban on them takes
 place.
 So the question is, if I go ahead and buy 20 years worth of bulbs to store
 in my attic, my wife hates fluorescents plus we have a bunch of dimmer
 circuits, will the representatives of the fed nanny state police break down
 my doors and search the house if they find out that I am still using them
 and even hoarding them. Woe is me. If I only had more carbon credits like
 Mr. Global warming so I could afford to burn all those megawatts and get a
 free pass. Ya know, I think I'll be all right if I am very careful to hide
 them with the ammo for my guns and my collection of happy Meal toys. Oh
 yes, and I just saw this a few minutes ago, they just had a story on the TV
 that our fearless leader is trying to pass some sort of law that food
 manufacturers will no longer be able to advertise junk food on TV. Sorry
 Tony the tiger. Cereals with sugar are too dangerous to be advertised on
 TV.
 Somebody may actually want to eat that hazardous stuff. Prescription drugs?
 Nah, they're really safe and so good for you too. The FDA and AMA said
 so.ya they're OK. Oh my, what ever would I do without the feds, I'm
 s lucky to have the federal government to protect me from myself and
 think for me too.

 Barry

 
  To quote one of our new tzars Never let a good crisis go unused
 
  Remember, what we must have to save us from these terrors of climate is
  more
  and bigger government.  Just send in your money.. all of it.



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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-06 Thread Mountain Man
soapbox-free Grant wrote:
 To quote one of our new tzars Never let a good crisis go unused

Hey... hey... now you be hitting close to home.
Dat be da new mayor here, I believe.
mao - outside ChiTown

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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-06 Thread Mountain Man
Dieselhead wrote:
 America is remarkable.  When the people are set free, the economy booms
 [and the taxes roll in.]  Right now, we are not free.  We are slaves of
 the gummit.  Simon Conway, LEGAL immigrant, and US Citizen.  (actually,
 there is only one kind of immigrant, the legal kind.  All others are illegal
 aliens)

Don't just walk away yet.
They have your kids - government education.
In education, the Dewey system was initiated and promoted by Skull
and Bones members. Dewey was an ardent statist, and a believer in the
Hegelian idea that the child exists to be trained to serve the State.
This requires suppression of individualist tendencies and a careful
spoon-feeding of approved knowledge. This dumbing down of American
education is not easily apparent unless you have studied in both
foreign and domestic U.S. universities - then the contrast becomes
crystal clear. - Antony Sutton, America's Secret Establishment, An
Introduction to The Order of Skull  Bones, 2002 Introduction.  The
guy was educated in the Brit system but spent his life over here
teaching and researching conspiracy.  I still remember reading one of
his books 30 years ago - Trilaterals Over Washington.

Google the guy and read the wikipedia quotes to find I have a friend
in my protest against unemployment compensation:
...corporate socialism planned by the big corporations. Sutton
concluded that this was all part of the economical power elites'
long-range program of nurturing collectivism and fostering
corporate socialism in order to ensure monopoly acquisition of
wealth, because it would fade away if it were exposed to the
activity of a free market. In his view, the only solution to prevent
such abuse in the future was that a majority of individuals declares
or acts as if it wants nothing from government, declares it will look
after its own welfare and interests, or specifically that a majority
finds the moral courage and the internal fortitude to reject the
something-for-nothing con game and replace it by voluntary
associations, voluntary communes, or local rule and decentralized
societies. In Sutton's own words he was persecuted but never
prosecuted for his research and subsequent publication of his
findings.

I desire to find the true patriots, not the RINO's pawing away our 235
year old experiment in democracy.  I want to find others that are part
of the solution - a majority of individuals declares or acts as if it
wants nothing from government, declares it will look after its own
welfare and interests, or specifically that a majority finds the
moral courage and the internal fortitude to reject the
something-for-nothing con game and replace it by voluntary
associations, voluntary communes, or local rule and decentralized
societies.

If anyone knows how/where to find people that are coalescing this
solution citizens - please let me know.  There are 20 people listed on
the Conspiracy Hall of Fame, Sutton being one of them - I will be
contacting the ones that are still alive with the same question.

I finally found my man.  Whereas to a man, here, everyone sez do the
unemployment.  Nope.  Not now.  I have my raison d'être against the
State now - no Hegelian-ism for me, nope!  On over to banned now...
mao

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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-06 Thread Mitch Haley


http://freestateproject.org

Mountain Man wrote:


If anyone knows how/where to find people that are coalescing this
solution citizens - please let me know.  There are 20 people listed on
the Conspiracy Hall of Fame, Sutton being one of them - I will be
contacting the ones that are still alive with the same question.




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Re: [MBZ] The latest Climate change lies

2011-07-06 Thread G Mann
Mao,
Respectfully request I be excluded from the to the man group in your quest
for truth and justice.  I support your quest for independence from the
nanny state mindless mentality.

BTW, to the original poster on this thread.  Try the latest version of LED
lights. They come in soft white, use 1/10th the energy of incadecent, last
almost forever, and are now available as direct replacement screw in to the
socket bulbs.  Price is still a bit high, but you will come to love the
clean light they give.  Ohh.. and no murcury like the government mandated
new , safe, can't buy anything else, bulbs.

You have to ask for the soft white specifically or they will be to bright
and glare.

Grant...

On Wed, Jul 6, 2011 at 8:18 PM, Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote:


 http://freestateproject.org


 Mountain Man wrote:

  If anyone knows how/where to find people that are coalescing this
 solution citizens - please let me know.  There are 20 people listed on
 the Conspiracy Hall of Fame, Sutton being one of them - I will be
 contacting the ones that are still alive with the same question.



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