Re: [MBZ] assist with diagnosis on no start

[Redghost]

The interlock broke off in the ignition.  Took the thing apart and  
pulled the broken bit out.  Now I have no trouble on that side.


Will look at flooding the cable with sewing oil for a while.  OR, I  
could just drag my butt to the PnP and see if there are any w115 in  
need of gutting.  This will incur wrath of SWMBA, since I already have  
one garage stuffed with useless parts and bringing anymore home will  
not be looked on kindly


clay


On Sep 16, 2009, at 4:19 PM, Tim C. wrote:

Agree with Jim on this one, I recall reading that the newer version  
of the knob is not as strong so I was afraid of ever needing to  
change it.


I was able to get a fair amount of lubrication on my 115 by:
Parking on a hill nose down
Disconnecting the battery
Shooting sewing machine oil down the pull knob
Work knob back and forth as far as possible
Repeat frequently for a few weeks

I do not know if the sewing machine oil actually helped, but it  
didn't hurt and overall the knob got quite a bit looser so I didn't  
mess with the formula.


You might instead have a failing interlock, which you do not want to  
break if you can avoid it.  If the above procedure doesn't help you  
might want to take the dash apart to lubricate all that mess.


If you want to take a last road trip with Gump, feel free to drop it  
off in my driveway, Durham NC, at any time; I'll take good care of  
it for you. :) I still like 115s, but I only have the one  
languishing in the driveway.


-Tim

-Original Message-
From: Jim Cathey 
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 9:56 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] assist with diagnosis on no start


Told him to PULL real hard after he gets glow.  Says he did but she
will not crank.  PULL REAL HARD, dude.


I think your knob is too tight.  (And your later statement backs
this up.)


I'd quit trying after about a 20lb pull, wouldn't want to rip the
thing out of the dash.


Yes, if the plastic knob starts to deform, you're pulling too
hard and need to correct the situation.

Clay, you might want to take care of that.  Considering that new
knobs are no longer available...

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] assist with diagnosis on no start

[Jim Cathey]

What solution to you espouse?  I have not been able to figure out what 
is making the thing so stiff.  Traced it from knob to IP and can not 
see the problem point.


The cable is stiff, they get that way.  Lube it.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] assist with diagnosis on no start

[Redghost]

What solution to you espouse?  I have not been able to figure out what  
is making the thing so stiff.  Traced it from knob to IP and can not  
see the problem point.


clay

On Sep 15, 2009, at 6:56 PM, Jim Cathey wrote:

Told him to PULL real hard after he gets glow.  Says he did but she  
will not crank.  PULL REAL HARD, dude.


I think your knob is too tight.  (And your later statement backs
this up.)

I'd quit trying after about a 20lb pull, wouldn't want to rip the  
thing out of the dash.


Yes, if the plastic knob starts to deform, you're pulling too
hard and need to correct the situation.

Clay, you might want to take care of that.  Considering that new
knobs are no longer available...

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] assist with diagnosis on no start

[Tim C .]

Agree with Jim on this one, I recall reading that the newer version of the knob 
is not as strong so I was afraid of ever needing to change it.

I was able to get a fair amount of lubrication on my 115 by:
Parking on a hill nose down
Disconnecting the battery
Shooting sewing machine oil down the pull knob
Work knob back and forth as far as possible
Repeat frequently for a few weeks

I do not know if the sewing machine oil actually helped, but it didn't hurt and 
overall the knob got quite a bit looser so I didn't mess with the formula.

You might instead have a failing interlock, which you do not want to break if 
you can avoid it.  If the above procedure doesn't help you might want to take 
the dash apart to lubricate all that mess.

If you want to take a last road trip with Gump, feel free to drop it off in my 
driveway, Durham NC, at any time; I'll take good care of it for you. :) I still 
like 115s, but I only have the one languishing in the driveway.

-Tim

-Original Message-
From: Jim Cathey 
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 9:56 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] assist with diagnosis on no start

> Told him to PULL real hard after he gets glow.  Says he did but she 
> will not crank.  PULL REAL HARD, dude.

I think your knob is too tight.  (And your later statement backs
this up.)

> I'd quit trying after about a 20lb pull, wouldn't want to rip the 
> thing out of the dash.

Yes, if the plastic knob starts to deform, you're pulling too
hard and need to correct the situation.

Clay, you might want to take care of that.  Considering that new
knobs are no longer available...

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] assist with diagnosis on no start

[Loren Faeth]

"Starting fluid = bad"  Unless you like spending time and money for 
prechambers.  (or enjoy hearing the prechamber ends or balls bouncing 
around it the cylinder until they go out the exhaust valve or get 
embedded on the piston top.


Test the glowplugs, change the bad ones., could also be a bad relay, 
and no glowing at all.




At 09:23 PM 9/15/2009, you wrote:

I ONCE again MISS Marshall.

On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 12:18 PM,  wrote:

>
> The car (300sd) is hard to start.  My thought is it is the glow plugs?  The
> glow plug light comes on and goes off (like it is supposed to do) but will
> not start without just a puff of starter fluid.  After the engine 
has warmed
> up it starts without hesitation.  It seems to run well after 
starting, tho I

> don't think the turbo is kicking in when it is supposed to do so (vacuum
> issue?).  Anyway, I got this car for the engine (rust bucket) as it seemed
> to run pretty well, but is too slooow or non start (without assist).
>



--
DPAD.

The young officer thought it very odd that his captain seemed to trust and
confide in his chiefs more than his wardroom, but mustang officers had their
own ways.
-- Tom Clancy, Clear and Present Danger.
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Loren Faeth 



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Re: [MBZ] assist with diagnosis on no start

[Wonko the Sane]

I ONCE again MISS Marshall.

On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 12:18 PM,  wrote:

>
> The car (300sd) is hard to start.  My thought is it is the glow plugs?  The
> glow plug light comes on and goes off (like it is supposed to do) but will
> not start without just a puff of starter fluid.  After the engine has warmed
> up it starts without hesitation.  It seems to run well after starting, tho I
> don't think the turbo is kicking in when it is supposed to do so (vacuum
> issue?).  Anyway, I got this car for the engine (rust bucket) as it seemed
> to run pretty well, but is too slooow or non start (without assist).
>



-- 
DPAD.

The young officer thought it very odd that his captain seemed to trust and
confide in his chiefs more than his wardroom, but mustang officers had their
own ways.
-- Tom Clancy, Clear and Present Danger.
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Re: [MBZ] assist with diagnosis on no start

[Jim Cathey]

Told him to PULL real hard after he gets glow.  Says he did but she 
will not crank.  PULL REAL HARD, dude.


I think your knob is too tight.  (And your later statement backs
this up.)

I'd quit trying after about a 20lb pull, wouldn't want to rip the 
thing out of the dash.


Yes, if the plastic knob starts to deform, you're pulling too
hard and need to correct the situation.

Clay, you might want to take care of that.  Considering that new
knobs are no longer available...

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] assist with diagnosis on no start

[OK Don]

I'm fairly confident that you will not pull it out of the dash, having
removed the entier thing to replace the heater fan once --- it's just as
robust inside as the rest of the car 


-- 
OK Don
Pair of W124 300D 2.5 Turbos
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Re: [MBZ] assist with diagnosis on no start

[Redghost]

I use both hands and nearly pull my arm out of the sockets to get her  
going


clay

On Sep 15, 2009, at 1:58 PM, Peter Frederick wrote:

That is a strong spring -- my SIL had to use both hands when she  
borrowed my old 220D a few times.


Peter

-Original Message-

From: Rich Thomas 
Sent: Sep 15, 2009 2:55 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] assist with diagnosis on no start

What is that, the pull start rope?

--R

Mitch Haley wrote:

Redghost wrote:

PULL REAL HARD, dude.  Tells me that just ain't right but he will
give it a go.


I've seen mention on this list of wimps and small women being unable
to start these cars. How hard do you have to pull? If I were in the
mechanic's shoes, I'd quit trying after about a 20lb pull, wouldn't
want to rip the thing out of the dash.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] assist with diagnosis on no start

[Peter Frederick]

That is a strong spring -- my SIL had to use both hands when she borrowed my 
old 220D a few times.

Peter

-Original Message-
>From: Rich Thomas 
>Sent: Sep 15, 2009 2:55 PM
>To: Mercedes Discussion List 
>Subject: Re: [MBZ] assist with diagnosis on no start
>
>What is that, the pull start rope?
>
>--R
>
>Mitch Haley wrote:
>> Redghost wrote:
>>> PULL REAL HARD, dude.  Tells me that just ain't right but he will 
>>> give it a go.
>>
>> I've seen mention on this list of wimps and small women being unable 
>> to start these cars. How hard do you have to pull? If I were in the 
>> mechanic's shoes, I'd quit trying after about a 20lb pull, wouldn't 
>> want to rip the thing out of the dash.
>>
>> Mitch.
>>
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>>
>
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Re: [MBZ] assist with diagnosis on no start

[Redghost]

My cable is probably messed up, but I am not yet interested in making  
amends to allow easier starts.  Maybe in a few years


clay

On Sep 15, 2009, at 12:44 PM, tyler wrote:

I don't think a W115 diesel needs to be any more complex to start  
than it was new in order to deter would-be thieves.


Maybe it could be oiled or something? I don't remember the starting  
knob on my '74 240D being hard to pull at all.


Tyler

Redghost wrote:
Well, you refer to my wimp and his mother here.  I would guess it  
takes less pull than I am giving it in a properly set up car.  It  
has gotten harder to pull recently, but I may have messed up the  
routing of the cable with recent valve adjustment, glow plug  
replacement and rebuild on injectors.


What it does do is deter those fools who get a very crazy notion to  
steal a classic clunker


clay


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Re: [MBZ] assist with diagnosis on no start

[tyler]

I don't think a W115 diesel needs to be any more complex to start than 
it was new in order to deter would-be thieves.


Maybe it could be oiled or something? I don't remember the starting knob 
on my '74 240D being hard to pull at all.


Tyler

Redghost wrote:
Well, you refer to my wimp and his mother here.  I would guess it 
takes less pull than I am giving it in a properly set up car.  It has 
gotten harder to pull recently, but I may have messed up the routing 
of the cable with recent valve adjustment, glow plug replacement and 
rebuild on injectors.


What it does do is deter those fools who get a very crazy notion to 
steal a classic clunker


clay


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Re: [MBZ] assist with diagnosis on no start

[Redghost]

Well, you refer to my wimp and his mother here.  I would guess it  
takes less pull than I am giving it in a properly set up car.  It has  
gotten harder to pull recently, but I may have messed up the routing  
of the cable with recent valve adjustment, glow plug replacement and  
rebuild on injectors.


What it does do is deter those fools who get a very crazy notion to  
steal a classic clunker


clay


On Sep 15, 2009, at 11:40 AM, Mitch Haley wrote:


Redghost wrote:
PULL REAL HARD, dude.  Tells me that just ain't right but he will  
give it a go.


I've seen mention on this list of wimps and small women being unable  
to start these cars. How hard do you have to pull? If I were in the  
mechanic's shoes, I'd quit trying after about a 20lb pull, wouldn't  
want to rip the thing out of the dash.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] assist with diagnosis on no start

[Rich Thomas]

What is that, the pull start rope?

--R

Mitch Haley wrote:

Redghost wrote:
PULL REAL HARD, dude.  Tells me that just ain't right but he will 
give it a go.


I've seen mention on this list of wimps and small women being unable 
to start these cars. How hard do you have to pull? If I were in the 
mechanic's shoes, I'd quit trying after about a 20lb pull, wouldn't 
want to rip the thing out of the dash.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] assist with diagnosis on no start

[Mitch Haley]

Redghost wrote:
PULL REAL HARD, dude.  
Tells me that just ain't right but he will give it a go.


I've seen mention on this list of wimps and small women being unable to start 
these cars. How hard do you have to pull? If I were in the mechanic's shoes, I'd 
quit trying after about a 20lb pull, wouldn't want to rip the thing out of the 
dash.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] assist with diagnosis on no start

[Curt Raymond]

LOVE IT.

I need me a 115. I emailed about one the other day listed as an '82 220D hoping 
it was really a '72, never did hear back...


Hey Tom, theres a '75 300D on eBay, its in CT...

-Curt

Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 10:38:54 -0700
From: Redghost 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] assist with diagnosis on no start
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

Well, Gump went to the car Dr. this morning.  Had oldest boy fetch me  
at 7:10am at the shop and took him to school.  Left the key in the box.

Got home around 7:55, and settled down to breakfast and the paper.  A  
bit after 8am call comes in.  Shop can not figure out how to start  
her.  Explain the process to the front desk and she passes me to the  
lead mechanic.  He knows full well how to start an old diesel, just  
can not figure out how to get Gump lit off.  Told him to PULL real  
hard after he gets glow.  Says he did but she will not crank.  PULL  
REAL HARD, dude.  Tells me that just ain't right but he will give it a  
go.

Never did get a call back.  Guess he felt too much the pussy for  
calling in the first place.

clay


  
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Re: [MBZ] assist with diagnosis on no start

[Redghost]

Well, Gump went to the car Dr. this morning.  Had oldest boy fetch me  
at 7:10am at the shop and took him to school.  Left the key in the box.


Got home around 7:55, and settled down to breakfast and the paper.  A  
bit after 8am call comes in.  Shop can not figure out how to start  
her.  Explain the process to the front desk and she passes me to the  
lead mechanic.  He knows full well how to start an old diesel, just  
can not figure out how to get Gump lit off.  Told him to PULL real  
hard after he gets glow.  Says he did but she will not crank.  PULL  
REAL HARD, dude.  Tells me that just ain't right but he will give it a  
go.


Never did get a call back.  Guess he felt too much the pussy for  
calling in the first place.


clay

On Sep 13, 2009, at 2:53 PM, OK Don wrote:

To corraborate Mitch's excellent suggestions - all the hard to start  
issues
i've had with 615, 616, and 617 engines have been related to one of  
the
following: air in a fuel line, bad glow plugs, or too tight valves  
(other

than too cold with the wrong oil).

On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 3:41 PM, Mitch Haley  wrote:



Ether isn't good. Ether in a glow plug engine is very bad.
In order to start, you need fuel, compression, and heat.

Let's start with heat. The simplest thing to do is to glow for 30  
seconds

instead of cranking as soon as the light goes out.

You can unplug the glow plug harness from the glow plug relay, and  
jumper

the pins in the connector on the plug harness to test the plugs
individually. You can do this crudely with an ohmmeter, or better  
yet, jump
an ammeter between the positive battery terminal and a wire to a  
glow plug.
The plug should draw around 20A initially and then taper down to  
about 10A
after a few seconds. If you do that with all five, you'll see which  
one(s)

don't act right.

If the plugs are all good, plug the connector back into the relay,  
turn the

key on, and check for voltage at a glow plug.

Compression: one thing commonly overlooked is valve adjustment. If  
your
valves are tight, it's not going to want to start when cold. While  
you've
got the valve cover off, slowly turn the engine until the timing  
marks line
up on the front cam tower and read the crank position on the crank  
damper.
If the crank is five degrees ahead of the cam, you need a new cam  
chain.


If the above check out OK, post a follow-up and we'll get into fuel  
issues,

starting with the hand primer pump.

Mitch.



--
OK Don
Pair of W124 300D 2.5 Turbos



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Re: [MBZ] assist with diagnosis on no start

[OK Don]

To corraborate Mitch's excellent suggestions - all the hard to start issues
i've had with 615, 616, and 617 engines have been related to one of the
following: air in a fuel line, bad glow plugs, or too tight valves (other
than too cold with the wrong oil).

On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 3:41 PM, Mitch Haley  wrote:

>
> Ether isn't good. Ether in a glow plug engine is very bad.
> In order to start, you need fuel, compression, and heat.
>
> Let's start with heat. The simplest thing to do is to glow for 30 seconds
> instead of cranking as soon as the light goes out.
>
> You can unplug the glow plug harness from the glow plug relay, and jumper
> the pins in the connector on the plug harness to test the plugs
> individually. You can do this crudely with an ohmmeter, or better yet, jump
> an ammeter between the positive battery terminal and a wire to a glow plug.
> The plug should draw around 20A initially and then taper down to about 10A
> after a few seconds. If you do that with all five, you'll see which one(s)
> don't act right.
>
> If the plugs are all good, plug the connector back into the relay, turn the
> key on, and check for voltage at a glow plug.
>
> Compression: one thing commonly overlooked is valve adjustment. If your
> valves are tight, it's not going to want to start when cold. While you've
> got the valve cover off, slowly turn the engine until the timing marks line
> up on the front cam tower and read the crank position on the crank damper.
> If the crank is five degrees ahead of the cam, you need a new cam chain.
>
> If the above check out OK, post a follow-up and we'll get into fuel issues,
> starting with the hand primer pump.
>
> Mitch.
>
>
>
> --
> OK Don
> Pair of W124 300D 2.5 Turbos
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] assist with diagnosis on no start

[Mitch Haley]

Ether isn't good. Ether in a glow plug engine is very bad.
In order to start, you need fuel, compression, and heat.

Let's start with heat. The simplest thing to do is to glow for 30 seconds 
instead of cranking as soon as the light goes out.


You can unplug the glow plug harness from the glow plug relay, and jumper the 
pins in the connector on the plug harness to test the plugs individually. You 
can do this crudely with an ohmmeter, or better yet, jump an ammeter between the 
positive battery terminal and a wire to a glow plug. The plug should draw around 
20A initially and then taper down to about 10A after a few seconds. If you do 
that with all five, you'll see which one(s) don't act right.


If the plugs are all good, plug the connector back into the relay, turn the key 
on, and check for voltage at a glow plug.


Compression: one thing commonly overlooked is valve adjustment. If your valves 
are tight, it's not going to want to start when cold. While you've got the valve 
cover off, slowly turn the engine until the timing marks line up on the front 
cam tower and read the crank position on the crank damper. If the crank is five 
degrees ahead of the cam, you need a new cam chain.


If the above check out OK, post a follow-up and we'll get into fuel issues, 
starting with the hand primer pump.


Mitch.

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[MBZ] assist with diagnosis on no start

[drcscruggs]

I bought a 82 300sd with the idea of a transplant engine for my G-wagen.  My G 
has the 2.8 (110) engine and I wanted to dieselize it.  Am I totally nuts 
(changing from 110 in line 6 petro to 617 diesel 5 cylinder)?  



Also, would the transmission on the G-wagen fit the 617 diesel?  




The car (300sd) is hard to start.  My thought is it is the glow plugs?  The 
glow plug light comes on and goes off (like it is supposed to do) but will not 
start without just a puff of starter fluid.  After the engine has warmed up it 
starts without hesitation.  It seems to run well after starting, tho I don't 
think the turbo is kicking in when it is supposed to do so (vacuum issue?).  
Anyway, I got this car for the engine (rust bucket) as it seemed to run pretty 
well, but is too slooow or non start (without assist).  




Can someone give an idea on what I need to do to get it to start like it is 
supposed to do? I do not like the idea of starter fluid ignition/starting ( I 
know is bad).  




Note, it has 130k on speedo (that is nonfunctional).  I believe engine/car  to 
have about 200k on it.  Why?  the seats are intact, pedal wear has about that 
(200k miles total guess on my part).   That is how I arrived at about 200k.




Long note, sorry for length, my knowledge is limited and hoping for some sage 
advice.  




Thanks 

charles


-Original Message-
From: Mounta
in Man 
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Sent: Sun, Sep 13, 2009 12:00 pm
Subject: Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare








Dwight wrote:
> Right on-I too am off to local farmers.  Destruction  of mom and pos was
> diabolical plot by evil W's and other big boxes.
> Conspiracy rant off.

The term we tried to invent 8 years ago (on banned) is wallyrigged.
Maybe it can stick this time.
mao

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