Re: [MBZ] howto for oil cooler line replacement?

[Loren Faeth]

Glad to hear you were able to pull it off without a major hitch.  The 
assembly/tightening sequence you describe is correct.


At 10:17 AM 9/27/2009, you wrote:

Finally got to this job yesterday... it's actually went better than I
expected.  I had no trouble removing the old lines.  I had treated the
fittings with the acetone/ATF mix a couple of times over the past few
weeks.  I don't know if that helped, but they did open up without
stripping the threads or damaging the cooler.  I used anti-sieze on the
threads when I installed the new lines.

The hardest part was getting the new lines into the clips.  My
suggestion for anyone doing this... attach the ends at the cooler first.
They have a rubber hose section so the rest of the pipe will still be
moveable.  If you attach and tighten the lines at the filter, you won't
be able to reposition them.

Once the cooler ends are attached, install the retaining clamps (one
above the AC compressor, one near the motor mount) loosely.  Then attach
the lines to the filter, but leave them loose enough that the pipes can
still move.  Tighten the retaining clamps, then the snug up the nuts on
the filter.

I also replaced my motor mounts... the trick here is to be sure the
engine is lifted high enough.  The old collapsed mounts will slide out
easily but if the engine is not high enough the new ones won't slip in.

Allan

Loren Faeth  writes:

> Allan,
>
> You will be able to detect that some of this is tongue in cheek, but
> this is how I would recommend how to go about it.  It is mostly
> serious.  If you go through all the preparation steps, it will save
> you having to stop and go acquire something else.
>
> Preparation
>
> 1.  Wash out the left side of the engine, hoses and oil cooler as well
> as you can at the carwash.  Steam cleaner is great, if you have access
> to one.  Wash upside down too.
> 2. buy a spare oil cooler.  Chances are the threads will be buggered
> up on yours, one side or the other.
> 3. get some Neverseize for the threads when you put the new hoses on.
> 4. Secure alternate transportation for a week or two if the project
> runs the normal course, and you have to wait for parts.
> 5.  Line up wrenches to fit the oil filter end (Adapter and nut) and
> the oil cooler end.
> 6. soak the oil cooler ends (nuts) with penetrating oil for 1-4 weeks
> in advance.
> 7.  Figure out a way to hold a 8-10 lb sledgehammer behind the nut
> while you whack it with a 2-4 lb hammer to loosen the corrosion.
> 8. designate a set of clothes to get covered in Diesel motor oil
> 9. buy a bag of floor dry
> 10. put the car up so you can crawl under it
> 11.  take a trial pull on the wrenches at the oil cooler fittings.
> Take care not to damage the oil cooler.  If things are normal, one
> will loosen with major effort, and the other won't.  Now you know
> which one is really corroded.
> 12. line up an air grinder with a cutoff wheel, a dremel or some
> similar way to cut through the really stuck nut.
>
> The actual job:
>
> 1.  Loosen oil filter cover  (It is a good time for an oil change)
> 2.  Loosen the nuts at the oil cooler.  Drain oil into a catch pan.
> 3.  Loosen the nuts at the oil filter
> 4.  loosen clamps that hold the hoses
> 5. remove the hoses, noting which one goes in which position and which
> one goes to which connection.  It is not easy, but it can be done.  I
> think I removed the left motor mount arm from the engine on the 240D
> to allow more room.  That means you need to support the engine from
> underneath.
> 6. install new hoses in reverse, putting neverseize on the cooler 
end threads.

>
> Simple huh?
>
> Notes:
> Plan on getting a bath in oil.
> You will need a trouble light to see the bolts on the clamps
> For the nut that is really stuck:  We assume you have already soaked
> it for a month.  Next try beating on the nut with the hammer, being
> careful not to damage the body or the oil cooler or your fingers.  the
> goal is not so much to bash the nut as to pein it many times with
> enough force that the corrosion in the threads will loosen.  Rest, Go
> at it again.  If you have an air chisel, you can accomplish this
> easier with an air chisel, but it does not have the mass of the
> hammer, so it may not loosen the corrosion.
>
> If that doesn't work:
>
> Decision time:  You will either have to throw out the oil cooler with
> attached hose and use the new used one,
> OR make a cut through the nut to try to get it to "pop" so that the
> corrosion will loosen.  This is irreversible and may result in needing
> to use the new used oil cooler
> OR you can cut the ferrule off the old hose, remove the hose from the
> hose end, leaving the hose end on the oil cooler.  Then you have to
> cut the ferrule on the NEW hose, pull out the hose end, slide the hose
> onto the old hose end.  Put a clamp on it.
>
> The hardest thing (aside form getting the stuck nut loose) is to keep
> a wrench on the aluminum lug on the oil cooler while you try to get
> that nu

Re: [MBZ] howto for oil cooler line replacement?

[Allan Streib]

Finally got to this job yesterday... it's actually went better than I
expected.  I had no trouble removing the old lines.  I had treated the
fittings with the acetone/ATF mix a couple of times over the past few
weeks.  I don't know if that helped, but they did open up without
stripping the threads or damaging the cooler.  I used anti-sieze on the
threads when I installed the new lines.

The hardest part was getting the new lines into the clips.  My
suggestion for anyone doing this... attach the ends at the cooler first.
They have a rubber hose section so the rest of the pipe will still be
moveable.  If you attach and tighten the lines at the filter, you won't
be able to reposition them.

Once the cooler ends are attached, install the retaining clamps (one
above the AC compressor, one near the motor mount) loosely.  Then attach
the lines to the filter, but leave them loose enough that the pipes can
still move.  Tighten the retaining clamps, then the snug up the nuts on
the filter.

I also replaced my motor mounts... the trick here is to be sure the
engine is lifted high enough.  The old collapsed mounts will slide out
easily but if the engine is not high enough the new ones won't slip in.

Allan

Loren Faeth  writes:

> Allan,
>
> You will be able to detect that some of this is tongue in cheek, but
> this is how I would recommend how to go about it.  It is mostly
> serious.  If you go through all the preparation steps, it will save
> you having to stop and go acquire something else.
>
> Preparation
>
> 1.  Wash out the left side of the engine, hoses and oil cooler as well
> as you can at the carwash.  Steam cleaner is great, if you have access
> to one.  Wash upside down too.
> 2. buy a spare oil cooler.  Chances are the threads will be buggered
> up on yours, one side or the other.
> 3. get some Neverseize for the threads when you put the new hoses on.
> 4. Secure alternate transportation for a week or two if the project
> runs the normal course, and you have to wait for parts.
> 5.  Line up wrenches to fit the oil filter end (Adapter and nut) and
> the oil cooler end.
> 6. soak the oil cooler ends (nuts) with penetrating oil for 1-4 weeks
> in advance.
> 7.  Figure out a way to hold a 8-10 lb sledgehammer behind the nut
> while you whack it with a 2-4 lb hammer to loosen the corrosion.
> 8. designate a set of clothes to get covered in Diesel motor oil
> 9. buy a bag of floor dry
> 10. put the car up so you can crawl under it
> 11.  take a trial pull on the wrenches at the oil cooler fittings.
> Take care not to damage the oil cooler.  If things are normal, one
> will loosen with major effort, and the other won't.  Now you know
> which one is really corroded.
> 12. line up an air grinder with a cutoff wheel, a dremel or some
> similar way to cut through the really stuck nut.
>
> The actual job:
>
> 1.  Loosen oil filter cover  (It is a good time for an oil change)
> 2.  Loosen the nuts at the oil cooler.  Drain oil into a catch pan.
> 3.  Loosen the nuts at the oil filter
> 4.  loosen clamps that hold the hoses
> 5. remove the hoses, noting which one goes in which position and which
> one goes to which connection.  It is not easy, but it can be done.  I
> think I removed the left motor mount arm from the engine on the 240D
> to allow more room.  That means you need to support the engine from
> underneath.
> 6. install new hoses in reverse, putting neverseize on the cooler end threads.
>
> Simple huh?
>
> Notes:
> Plan on getting a bath in oil.
> You will need a trouble light to see the bolts on the clamps
> For the nut that is really stuck:  We assume you have already soaked
> it for a month.  Next try beating on the nut with the hammer, being
> careful not to damage the body or the oil cooler or your fingers.  the
> goal is not so much to bash the nut as to pein it many times with
> enough force that the corrosion in the threads will loosen.  Rest, Go
> at it again.  If you have an air chisel, you can accomplish this
> easier with an air chisel, but it does not have the mass of the
> hammer, so it may not loosen the corrosion.
>
> If that doesn't work:
>
> Decision time:  You will either have to throw out the oil cooler with
> attached hose and use the new used one,
> OR make a cut through the nut to try to get it to "pop" so that the
> corrosion will loosen.  This is irreversible and may result in needing
> to use the new used oil cooler
> OR you can cut the ferrule off the old hose, remove the hose from the
> hose end, leaving the hose end on the oil cooler.  Then you have to
> cut the ferrule on the NEW hose, pull out the hose end, slide the hose
> onto the old hose end.  Put a clamp on it.
>
> The hardest thing (aside form getting the stuck nut loose) is to keep
> a wrench on the aluminum lug on the oil cooler while you try to get
> that nut off without getting the oil cooler messed up beyond repair.
>
> If anyone sells a flare nut wrench of that size, it would be worth the
> money.  I don't remember 

Re: [MBZ] howto for oil cooler line replacement?

[Mitch Haley]

Benz Hogs wrote:
Buy a cheap 27mm box end wrench, and cut a notch big enough for the hose 
and make your own flare tool.  1 1/6" wrench will also work.


Don't forget the open end wrench to hold the fitting on the cooler side.
I got in a hurry and forgot that one on the trans oil cooler on dad's truck 
yesterday. Spent the better part of an hour (and more than $200) at the Dodge 
dealer fixing that little mistake. (it took forever because the dealer couldn't 
find the part number in the parts book) Hard to believe an oil cooler that much 
smaller and flimsier than a 300SD oil cooler costs $236. That's about $100 a pound.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] howto for oil cooler line replacement?

[Benz Hogs]

Buy a cheap 27mm box end wrench, and cut a notch big enough for the hose 
and make your own flare tool.  1 1/6" wrench will also work.



Luther   KB5QHUAlma, Ark
'87 300SDL (281,xxx mi)
'85 Ford F250 6.9 diesel (x59,xxx mi) BioBeast
'82 300CD (183 kmi)
'82 300D  (74 kmi) getting donor engine-sold
'85 300D (280,176) parts car sans engine "The Accordion"



Loren Faeth wrote:

Allan,

You will be able to detect that some of this is tongue in cheek, but 
this is how I would recommend how to go about it.  It is mostly 
serious.  If you go through all the preparation steps, it will save 
you having to stop and go acquire something else.


Preparation

1.  Wash out the left side of the engine, hoses and oil cooler as well 
as you can at the carwash.  Steam cleaner is great, if you have access 
to one.  Wash upside down too.
2. buy a spare oil cooler.  Chances are the threads will be buggered 
up on yours, one side or the other.

3. get some Neverseize for the threads when you put the new hoses on.
4. Secure alternate transportation for a week or two if the project 
runs the normal course, and you have to wait for parts.
5.  Line up wrenches to fit the oil filter end (Adapter and nut) and 
the oil cooler end.
6. soak the oil cooler ends (nuts) with penetrating oil for 1-4 weeks 
in advance.
7.  Figure out a way to hold a 8-10 lb sledgehammer behind the nut 
while you whack it with a 2-4 lb hammer to loosen the corrosion.

8. designate a set of clothes to get covered in Diesel motor oil
9. buy a bag of floor dry
10. put the car up so you can crawl under it
11.  take a trial pull on the wrenches at the oil cooler fittings.  
Take care not to damage the oil cooler.  If things are normal, one 
will loosen with major effort, and the other won't.  Now you know 
which one is really corroded.
12. line up an air grinder with a cutoff wheel, a dremel or some 
similar way to cut through the really stuck nut.


The actual job:

1.  Loosen oil filter cover  (It is a good time for an oil change)
2.  Loosen the nuts at the oil cooler.  Drain oil into a catch pan.
3.  Loosen the nuts at the oil filter
4.  loosen clamps that hold the hoses
5. remove the hoses, noting which one goes in which position and which 
one goes to which connection.  It is not easy, but it can be done.  I 
think I removed the left motor mount arm from the engine on the 240D 
to allow more room.  That means you need to support the engine from 
underneath.
6. install new hoses in reverse, putting neverseize on the cooler end 
threads.


Simple huh?

Notes:
Plan on getting a bath in oil.
You will need a trouble light to see the bolts on the clamps
For the nut that is really stuck:  We assume you have already soaked 
it for a month.  Next try beating on the nut with the hammer, being 
careful not to damage the body or the oil cooler or your fingers.  the 
goal is not so much to bash the nut as to pein it many times with 
enough force that the corrosion in the threads will loosen.  Rest, Go 
at it again.  If you have an air chisel, you can accomplish this 
easier with an air chisel, but it does not have the mass of the 
hammer, so it may not loosen the corrosion.


If that doesn't work:

Decision time:  You will either have to throw out the oil cooler with 
attached hose and use the new used one,
OR make a cut through the nut to try to get it to "pop" so that the 
corrosion will loosen.  This is irreversible and may result in needing 
to use the new used oil cooler
OR you can cut the ferrule off the old hose, remove the hose from the 
hose end, leaving the hose end on the oil cooler.  Then you have to 
cut the ferrule on the NEW hose, pull out the hose end, slide the hose 
onto the old hose end.  Put a clamp on it.


The hardest thing (aside form getting the stuck nut loose) is to keep 
a wrench on the aluminum lug on the oil cooler while you try to get 
that nut off without getting the oil cooler messed up beyond repair.


If anyone sells a flare nut wrench of that size, it would be worth the 
money.  I don't remember the size, but i think it might be 19mm.  
Flare nut wrenches for the nuts on both ends would be nice also, but 
people rarely have trouble with the oil filter end, as it is steel to 
steel.


Good luck!

At 05:55 PM 8/25/2009, you wrote:

I will be replacing the oil cooler lines on my W123 soon.  Anyone know
of a good "how to" article for this job?

Allan
--
1983 300D




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Re: [MBZ] howto for oil cooler line replacement?

[Jim Cathey]

ten years of dried on oil with a little chaff stuck to it


Oil/dirt is a little different than what you had there,
which could be described as a candle with many wicks
stuck into it!  A little pre-spray with water would have
prevented this.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] howto for oil cooler line replacement?

[barrystark]

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Re: [MBZ] howto for oil cooler line replacement?

[harry watkins]

Allan wrote:


I think I'm gonna try the ATF/acteone mix as a penetrating lube
on the nuts.

Allan


I am sold on that mix in, most places.  I have used it all over my backhoe 
and it works good.  I wet the muffler u-clamp nut and thread and there was 
still some ATF showing the next day after a rain.  I have gotten it on 
painted surfaces with no visable damage, but I will not take that chance on 
my car paint.


Harry 



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Re: [MBZ] howto for oil cooler line replacement?

[Fmiser]

> Loren Faeth wrote:

> Flame wrench would be a good tool, but I am reluctant to use a
> flame wrench on an oil filled hose. in a car coated with
> various forms of oil.

I've had some success with hot air. No, not from the TV - from a
hot air gun.

--   Philip

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Re: [MBZ] howto for oil cooler line replacement?

[andrew strasfogel]

Did anyone mention to have a spare oil cooler on hand?  The threads on the
cooler are soft and notoriously easy to mess up, especially after 20 years.

On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 2:41 PM, winmutt  wrote:

> I doubt you can fit 2 flares in there. You need the 19mm and 22?mm. The
> 22?mm needs to be ground thin to fit in there with the other. Or is it 22
> and 24? Can't remember.
>
> -Rolf
>
>
>
> Allan Streib wrote:
>
>> I have a couple of large flare nut wrenches I bought last year to change
>> out the power steering rack on on my Vanagon.  I'm not sure they're as
>> large as 19mm I'll have to check.
>>
>> Allan
>>
>> On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:02 -0700, "Alex Chamberlain" <
>> apchamberl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 4:56 PM, Loren
>>> Faeth wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
 If anyone sells a flare nut wrench of that size, it would be worth
 the money.  I don't remember the size, but i think it might be 19mm.
 Flare nut wrenches for the nuts on both ends would be nice also, but
 people rarely have trouble with the oil filter end, as it is steel
 to steel.


>>> S-K definitely sells them in 19 mm and larger, IIRC.  They're not
>>> cheap, but since the point of flare-nut wrenches is to avoid rounding
>>> off a nut, I think there's no point buying a cheap set.  I bet NAPA
>>> has them too, and their house-brand tools are excellent quality, much
>>> better than Craftsman or typical FLAPS stuff.
>>>
>>> Alex
>>>
>>> ___
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] howto for oil cooler line replacement?

[winmutt]

I doubt you can fit 2 flares in there. You need the 19mm and 22?mm. The 
22?mm needs to be ground thin to fit in there with the other. Or is it 
22 and 24? Can't remember.


-Rolf


Allan Streib wrote:

I have a couple of large flare nut wrenches I bought last year to change
out the power steering rack on on my Vanagon.  I'm not sure they're as
large as 19mm I'll have to check.

Allan

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:02 -0700, "Alex Chamberlain"  
wrote:
  

On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 4:56 PM, Loren
Faeth wrote:



If anyone sells a flare nut wrench of that size, it would be worth
the money.  I don't remember the size, but i think it might be 19mm.
Flare nut wrenches for the nuts on both ends would be nice also, but
people rarely have trouble with the oil filter end, as it is steel
to steel.
  

S-K definitely sells them in 19 mm and larger, IIRC.  They're not
cheap, but since the point of flare-nut wrenches is to avoid rounding
off a nut, I think there's no point buying a cheap set.  I bet NAPA
has them too, and their house-brand tools are excellent quality, much
better than Craftsman or typical FLAPS stuff.

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] howto for oil cooler line replacement?

[Loren Faeth]

I have never been able to get enough heat from anything but an 
acetylene torch to make a difference with the corrosion/electrolysis 
of dissimilar metals on a nut that size.  Acetylene torch is the 
flame wrench.  Opens anything, but also has been known to start fires.


On a car that didn't matter, such as a junker and outside buildings, 
I would not hesitate to use the flame wrench.  The problem is, that 
by the time we replace the oil cooler hoses, they are usually weeping 
oil throughout the hose.  It is not a pile of dirt with a little 
oil.  they are generally wet and dripping oil.the hose leads under 
the IP and to the canister of oil the filter resides in.  It is not 
an environment where I want to try the flame wrench first.  YMMV


At 01:01 PM 8/26/2009, you wrote:
Dont even know what one is. I just use a cheapo torch and MAPP. Oil 
is not going to catch on fire very easily, particularly in crusted on form.


-Rolf

Loren Faeth wrote:
Flame wrench would be a good tool, but I am reluctant to use a 
flame wrench on an oil filled hose. in a car coated with various 
forms of oil.  Generally there is oil leakage on the oil cooler and 
often around the left front corner of the engine.  If you have 
access to a steam cleaner to remove all forms of exterior oil, I'd 
probably take a stab with the flame wrench.  I don't want to 
recommend it to others though.


Also, many of us don't own a flame wrench either.

Great additions Rolf.  I thought I had to remove the left motor 
mount arm, but it has been a while.  I forgot about the engine 
shock on the 617.  I have only done this on the 123.123 (240D.)


At 12:18 PM 8/26/2009, you wrote:

On the OM617 things are a bit more complicated.

He will need to undo the motor mount and engine shock and jack 
under the oil pan on that side with a 2x6 or the like. Using heat 
on the nut is way easier but really make sure you have two 
wrenches that fit on the hose side and the cooler/filter side. Go 
ahead and start soaking those joints in PBlaster now. If you need 
more leverage then use a third large wrench and slip it over the 
open end, pipe work as well. Getting at the 10mm bolts on the 
clamps can be a bit trying. When putting the new hose on, pull 
back on the hose to let the nut slip over the fitting on the pipe. 
For some ingenious reason there is a bump right at the place where 
it starts to thread. You'll see what I mean. Make SURE that you 
have good clearance on the belts.


-Rolf

Loren Faeth wrote:

Allan,

You will be able to detect that some of this is tongue in cheek, 
but this is how I would recommend how to go about it.  It is 
mostly serious.  If you go through all the preparation steps, it 
will save you having to stop and go acquire something else.


Preparation

1.  Wash out the left side of the engine, hoses and oil cooler as 
well as you can at the carwash.  Steam cleaner is great, if you 
have access to one.  Wash upside down too.
2. buy a spare oil cooler.  Chances are the threads will be 
buggered up on yours, one side or the other.

3. get some Neverseize for the threads when you put the new hoses on.
4. Secure alternate transportation for a week or two if the 
project runs the normal course, and you have to wait for parts.
5.  Line up wrenches to fit the oil filter end (Adapter and nut) 
and the oil cooler end.
6. soak the oil cooler ends (nuts) with penetrating oil for 1-4 
weeks in advance.
7.  Figure out a way to hold a 8-10 lb sledgehammer behind the 
nut while you whack it with a 2-4 lb hammer to loosen the corrosion.

8. designate a set of clothes to get covered in Diesel motor oil
9. buy a bag of floor dry
10. put the car up so you can crawl under it
11.  take a trial pull on the wrenches at the oil cooler fittings.
Take care not to damage the oil cooler.  If things are normal, 
one will loosen with major effort, and the other won't.  Now you 
know which one is really corroded.
12. line up an air grinder with a cutoff wheel, a dremel or some 
similar way to cut through the really stuck nut.


The actual job:

1.  Loosen oil filter cover  (It is a good time for an oil change)
2.  Loosen the nuts at the oil cooler.  Drain oil into a catch pan.
3.  Loosen the nuts at the oil filter
4.  loosen clamps that hold the hoses
5. remove the hoses, noting which one goes in which position and 
which one goes to which connection.  It is not easy, but it can 
be done.  I think I removed the left motor mount arm from the 
engine on the 240D to allow more room.  That means you need to 
support the engine from underneath.
6. install new hoses in reverse, putting neverseize on the cooler 
end threads.


Simple huh?

Notes:
Plan on getting a bath in oil.
You will need a trouble light to see the bolts on the clamps
For the nut that is really stuck:  We assume you have already 
soaked it for a month.  Next try beating on the nut with the 
hammer, being careful not to damage the body or the oil cooler or 
your fingers.
the goal is not so much to bash t

Re: [MBZ] howto for oil cooler line replacement?

[pm7088]

I save old brake fluid to use as penetrating oil. An old timer set me wise. If 
that doesn't work and I can't use heat, out comes the chisel and BFH. 


-- 

Peter Arnold 

Windsor, CT 

- Original Message - 
From: "Allan Streib"  
To: "Mercedes Discussion List"  
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 2:04:05 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] howto for oil cooler line replacement? 

Thanks for the tips. I will be replacing the motor mounts too, as 
mine are pretty well collapsed. Seems like a good job to do at the 
same time. 

I think I'm gonna try the ATF/acteone mix as a penetrating lube 
on the nuts. 

Allan 
-- 
1983 300D 


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Re: [MBZ] howto for oil cooler line replacement?

[Mitch Haley]

winmutt wrote:
Dont even know what one is. I just use a cheapo torch and MAPP. Oil is 
not going to catch on fire very easily, particularly in crusted on form.


A few years ago, my dad lit off a crusty oil mess on the back of a tractor with 
an angle grinder. He was grinding something on the draw bar (hitch) and sliced 
his hand open. After we got the bleeding slowed down a bit, he wanted me to 
check on the grinder, he couldn't remember if he still had the switch locked on. 
I went out to the tractor and found the rear end pretty much engulfed in flames, 
ten years of dried on oil with a little chaff stuck to it had been lit by the 
grinder sparks.
Always nice to see flames on the outside of the fuel tanks. It encourages me to 
move quickly. Fortunately, I caught it in time to snuff it with an extinguisher, 
then I spent the next half hour spraying water on it for safety while mom drove 
him to the E.R. Those tanks were connected with a rubber hose the size of a 
radiator hose. Another minute or two and it would have been a major diesel fire 
when it burned through that hose.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] howto for oil cooler line replacement?

[Allan Streib]

I have a couple of large flare nut wrenches I bought last year to change
out the power steering rack on on my Vanagon.  I'm not sure they're as
large as 19mm I'll have to check.

Allan

On Wed, 26 Aug 2009 11:02 -0700, "Alex Chamberlain"  
wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 4:56 PM, Loren
> Faeth wrote:
>
> > If anyone sells a flare nut wrench of that size, it would be worth
> > the money.  I don't remember the size, but i think it might be 19mm.
> > Flare nut wrenches for the nuts on both ends would be nice also, but
> > people rarely have trouble with the oil filter end, as it is steel
> > to steel.
>
> S-K definitely sells them in 19 mm and larger, IIRC.  They're not
> cheap, but since the point of flare-nut wrenches is to avoid rounding
> off a nut, I think there's no point buying a cheap set.  I bet NAPA
> has them too, and their house-brand tools are excellent quality, much
> better than Craftsman or typical FLAPS stuff.
>
> Alex
>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] howto for oil cooler line replacement?

[Allan Streib]

Thanks for the tips.  I will be replacing the motor mounts too, as
mine are pretty well collapsed.  Seems like a good job to do at the
same time.

I think I'm gonna try the ATF/acteone mix as a penetrating lube
on the nuts.

Allan
--
1983 300D


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Re: [MBZ] howto for oil cooler line replacement?

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 4:56 PM, Loren Faeth wrote:

> If anyone sells a flare nut wrench of that size, it would be worth the
> money.  I don't remember the size, but i think it might be 19mm.  Flare nut
> wrenches for the nuts on both ends would be nice also, but people rarely
> have trouble with the oil filter end, as it is steel to steel.

S-K definitely sells them in 19 mm and larger, IIRC.  They're not
cheap, but since the point of flare-nut wrenches is to avoid rounding
off a nut, I think there's no point buying a cheap set.  I bet NAPA
has them too, and their house-brand tools are excellent quality, much
better than Craftsman or typical FLAPS stuff.

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] howto for oil cooler line replacement?

[winmutt]

Dont even know what one is. I just use a cheapo torch and MAPP. Oil is 
not going to catch on fire very easily, particularly in crusted on form.


-Rolf

Loren Faeth wrote:
Flame wrench would be a good tool, but I am reluctant to use a flame 
wrench on an oil filled hose. in a car coated with various forms of 
oil.  Generally there is oil leakage on the oil cooler and often 
around the left front corner of the engine.  If you have access to a 
steam cleaner to remove all forms of exterior oil, I'd probably take a 
stab with the flame wrench.  I don't want to recommend it to others 
though.


Also, many of us don't own a flame wrench either.

Great additions Rolf.  I thought I had to remove the left motor mount 
arm, but it has been a while.  I forgot about the engine shock on the 
617.  I have only done this on the 123.123 (240D.)


At 12:18 PM 8/26/2009, you wrote:

On the OM617 things are a bit more complicated.

He will need to undo the motor mount and engine shock and jack under 
the oil pan on that side with a 2x6 or the like. Using heat on the 
nut is way easier but really make sure you have two wrenches that fit 
on the hose side and the cooler/filter side. Go ahead and start 
soaking those joints in PBlaster now. If you need more leverage then 
use a third large wrench and slip it over the open end, pipe work as 
well. Getting at the 10mm bolts on the clamps can be a bit trying. 
When putting the new hose on, pull back on the hose to let the nut 
slip over the fitting on the pipe. For some ingenious reason there is 
a bump right at the place where it starts to thread. You'll see what 
I mean. Make SURE that you have good clearance on the belts.


-Rolf

Loren Faeth wrote:

Allan,

You will be able to detect that some of this is tongue in cheek, but 
this is how I would recommend how to go about it.  It is mostly 
serious.  If you go through all the preparation steps, it will save 
you having to stop and go acquire something else.


Preparation

1.  Wash out the left side of the engine, hoses and oil cooler as 
well as you can at the carwash.  Steam cleaner is great, if you have 
access to one.  Wash upside down too.
2. buy a spare oil cooler.  Chances are the threads will be buggered 
up on yours, one side or the other.

3. get some Neverseize for the threads when you put the new hoses on.
4. Secure alternate transportation for a week or two if the project 
runs the normal course, and you have to wait for parts.
5.  Line up wrenches to fit the oil filter end (Adapter and nut) and 
the oil cooler end.
6. soak the oil cooler ends (nuts) with penetrating oil for 1-4 
weeks in advance.
7.  Figure out a way to hold a 8-10 lb sledgehammer behind the nut 
while you whack it with a 2-4 lb hammer to loosen the corrosion.

8. designate a set of clothes to get covered in Diesel motor oil
9. buy a bag of floor dry
10. put the car up so you can crawl under it
11.  take a trial pull on the wrenches at the oil cooler fittings.
Take care not to damage the oil cooler.  If things are normal, one 
will loosen with major effort, and the other won't.  Now you know 
which one is really corroded.
12. line up an air grinder with a cutoff wheel, a dremel or some 
similar way to cut through the really stuck nut.


The actual job:

1.  Loosen oil filter cover  (It is a good time for an oil change)
2.  Loosen the nuts at the oil cooler.  Drain oil into a catch pan.
3.  Loosen the nuts at the oil filter
4.  loosen clamps that hold the hoses
5. remove the hoses, noting which one goes in which position and 
which one goes to which connection.  It is not easy, but it can be 
done.  I think I removed the left motor mount arm from the engine on 
the 240D to allow more room.  That means you need to support the 
engine from underneath.
6. install new hoses in reverse, putting neverseize on the cooler 
end threads.


Simple huh?

Notes:
Plan on getting a bath in oil.
You will need a trouble light to see the bolts on the clamps
For the nut that is really stuck:  We assume you have already soaked 
it for a month.  Next try beating on the nut with the hammer, being 
careful not to damage the body or the oil cooler or your fingers.  
the goal is not so much to bash the nut as to pein it many times 
with enough force that the corrosion in the threads will loosen.  
Rest, Go at it again.  If you have an air chisel, you can accomplish 
this easier with an air chisel, but it does not have the mass of the 
hammer, so it may not loosen the corrosion.


If that doesn't work:

Decision time:  You will either have to throw out the oil cooler 
with attached hose and use the new used one,
OR make a cut through the nut to try to get it to "pop" so that the 
corrosion will loosen.  This is irreversible and may result in 
needing to use the new used oil cooler
OR you can cut the ferrule off the old hose, remove the hose from 
the hose end, leaving the hose end on the oil cooler.  Then you have 
to cut the ferrule on the NEW hose, pull out the hose end,

Re: [MBZ] howto for oil cooler line replacement?

[Loren Faeth]

Flame wrench would be a good tool, but I am reluctant to use a flame 
wrench on an oil filled hose. in a car coated with various forms of 
oil.  Generally there is oil leakage on the oil cooler and often 
around the left front corner of the engine.  If you have access to a 
steam cleaner to remove all forms of exterior oil, I'd probably take 
a stab with the flame wrench.  I don't want to recommend it to others though.


Also, many of us don't own a flame wrench either.

Great additions Rolf.  I thought I had to remove the left motor mount 
arm, but it has been a while.  I forgot about the engine shock on the 
617.  I have only done this on the 123.123 (240D.)


At 12:18 PM 8/26/2009, you wrote:

On the OM617 things are a bit more complicated.

He will need to undo the motor mount and engine shock and jack under 
the oil pan on that side with a 2x6 or the like. Using heat on the 
nut is way easier but really make sure you have two wrenches that 
fit on the hose side and the cooler/filter side. Go ahead and start 
soaking those joints in PBlaster now. If you need more leverage then 
use a third large wrench and slip it over the open end, pipe work as 
well. Getting at the 10mm bolts on the clamps can be a bit trying. 
When putting the new hose on, pull back on the hose to let the nut 
slip over the fitting on the pipe. For some ingenious reason there 
is a bump right at the place where it starts to thread. You'll see 
what I mean. Make SURE that you have good clearance on the belts.


-Rolf

Loren Faeth wrote:

Allan,

You will be able to detect that some of this is tongue in cheek, 
but this is how I would recommend how to go about it.  It is mostly 
serious.  If you go through all the preparation steps, it will save 
you having to stop and go acquire something else.


Preparation

1.  Wash out the left side of the engine, hoses and oil cooler as 
well as you can at the carwash.  Steam cleaner is great, if you 
have access to one.  Wash upside down too.
2. buy a spare oil cooler.  Chances are the threads will be 
buggered up on yours, one side or the other.

3. get some Neverseize for the threads when you put the new hoses on.
4. Secure alternate transportation for a week or two if the project 
runs the normal course, and you have to wait for parts.
5.  Line up wrenches to fit the oil filter end (Adapter and nut) 
and the oil cooler end.
6. soak the oil cooler ends (nuts) with penetrating oil for 1-4 
weeks in advance.
7.  Figure out a way to hold a 8-10 lb sledgehammer behind the nut 
while you whack it with a 2-4 lb hammer to loosen the corrosion.

8. designate a set of clothes to get covered in Diesel motor oil
9. buy a bag of floor dry
10. put the car up so you can crawl under it
11.  take a trial pull on the wrenches at the oil cooler fittings.
Take care not to damage the oil cooler.  If things are normal, one 
will loosen with major effort, and the other won't.  Now you know 
which one is really corroded.
12. line up an air grinder with a cutoff wheel, a dremel or some 
similar way to cut through the really stuck nut.


The actual job:

1.  Loosen oil filter cover  (It is a good time for an oil change)
2.  Loosen the nuts at the oil cooler.  Drain oil into a catch pan.
3.  Loosen the nuts at the oil filter
4.  loosen clamps that hold the hoses
5. remove the hoses, noting which one goes in which position and 
which one goes to which connection.  It is not easy, but it can be 
done.  I think I removed the left motor mount arm from the engine 
on the 240D to allow more room.  That means you need to support the 
engine from underneath.
6. install new hoses in reverse, putting neverseize on the cooler 
end threads.


Simple huh?

Notes:
Plan on getting a bath in oil.
You will need a trouble light to see the bolts on the clamps
For the nut that is really stuck:  We assume you have already 
soaked it for a month.  Next try beating on the nut with the 
hammer, being careful not to damage the body or the oil cooler or 
your fingers.  the goal is not so much to bash the nut as to pein 
it many times with enough force that the corrosion in the threads 
will loosen.  Rest, Go at it again.  If you have an air chisel, you 
can accomplish this easier with an air chisel, but it does not have 
the mass of the hammer, so it may not loosen the corrosion.


If that doesn't work:

Decision time:  You will either have to throw out the oil cooler 
with attached hose and use the new used one,
OR make a cut through the nut to try to get it to "pop" so that the 
corrosion will loosen.  This is irreversible and may result in 
needing to use the new used oil cooler
OR you can cut the ferrule off the old hose, remove the hose from 
the hose end, leaving the hose end on the oil cooler.  Then you 
have to cut the ferrule on the NEW hose, pull out the hose end, 
slide the hose onto the old hose end.  Put a clamp on it.


The hardest thing (aside form getting the stuck nut loose) is to 
keep a wrench on the aluminum lug on the oil c

Re: [MBZ] howto for oil cooler line replacement?

[winmutt]

On the OM617 things are a bit more complicated.

He will need to undo the motor mount and engine shock and jack under the 
oil pan on that side with a 2x6 or the like. Using heat on the nut is 
way easier but really make sure you have two wrenches that fit on the 
hose side and the cooler/filter side. Go ahead and start soaking those 
joints in PBlaster now. If you need more leverage then use a third large 
wrench and slip it over the open end, pipe work as well. Getting at the 
10mm bolts on the clamps can be a bit trying. When putting the new hose 
on, pull back on the hose to let the nut slip over the fitting on the 
pipe. For some ingenious reason there is a bump right at the place where 
it starts to thread. You'll see what I mean. Make SURE that you have 
good clearance on the belts.


-Rolf

Loren Faeth wrote:

Allan,

You will be able to detect that some of this is tongue in cheek, but 
this is how I would recommend how to go about it.  It is mostly 
serious.  If you go through all the preparation steps, it will save 
you having to stop and go acquire something else.


Preparation

1.  Wash out the left side of the engine, hoses and oil cooler as well 
as you can at the carwash.  Steam cleaner is great, if you have access 
to one.  Wash upside down too.
2. buy a spare oil cooler.  Chances are the threads will be buggered 
up on yours, one side or the other.

3. get some Neverseize for the threads when you put the new hoses on.
4. Secure alternate transportation for a week or two if the project 
runs the normal course, and you have to wait for parts.
5.  Line up wrenches to fit the oil filter end (Adapter and nut) and 
the oil cooler end.
6. soak the oil cooler ends (nuts) with penetrating oil for 1-4 weeks 
in advance.
7.  Figure out a way to hold a 8-10 lb sledgehammer behind the nut 
while you whack it with a 2-4 lb hammer to loosen the corrosion.

8. designate a set of clothes to get covered in Diesel motor oil
9. buy a bag of floor dry
10. put the car up so you can crawl under it
11.  take a trial pull on the wrenches at the oil cooler fittings.  
Take care not to damage the oil cooler.  If things are normal, one 
will loosen with major effort, and the other won't.  Now you know 
which one is really corroded.
12. line up an air grinder with a cutoff wheel, a dremel or some 
similar way to cut through the really stuck nut.


The actual job:

1.  Loosen oil filter cover  (It is a good time for an oil change)
2.  Loosen the nuts at the oil cooler.  Drain oil into a catch pan.
3.  Loosen the nuts at the oil filter
4.  loosen clamps that hold the hoses
5. remove the hoses, noting which one goes in which position and which 
one goes to which connection.  It is not easy, but it can be done.  I 
think I removed the left motor mount arm from the engine on the 240D 
to allow more room.  That means you need to support the engine from 
underneath.
6. install new hoses in reverse, putting neverseize on the cooler end 
threads.


Simple huh?

Notes:
Plan on getting a bath in oil.
You will need a trouble light to see the bolts on the clamps
For the nut that is really stuck:  We assume you have already soaked 
it for a month.  Next try beating on the nut with the hammer, being 
careful not to damage the body or the oil cooler or your fingers.  the 
goal is not so much to bash the nut as to pein it many times with 
enough force that the corrosion in the threads will loosen.  Rest, Go 
at it again.  If you have an air chisel, you can accomplish this 
easier with an air chisel, but it does not have the mass of the 
hammer, so it may not loosen the corrosion.


If that doesn't work:

Decision time:  You will either have to throw out the oil cooler with 
attached hose and use the new used one,
OR make a cut through the nut to try to get it to "pop" so that the 
corrosion will loosen.  This is irreversible and may result in needing 
to use the new used oil cooler
OR you can cut the ferrule off the old hose, remove the hose from the 
hose end, leaving the hose end on the oil cooler.  Then you have to 
cut the ferrule on the NEW hose, pull out the hose end, slide the hose 
onto the old hose end.  Put a clamp on it.


The hardest thing (aside form getting the stuck nut loose) is to keep 
a wrench on the aluminum lug on the oil cooler while you try to get 
that nut off without getting the oil cooler messed up beyond repair.


If anyone sells a flare nut wrench of that size, it would be worth the 
money.  I don't remember the size, but i think it might be 19mm.  
Flare nut wrenches for the nuts on both ends would be nice also, but 
people rarely have trouble with the oil filter end, as it is steel to 
steel.


Good luck!

At 05:55 PM 8/25/2009, you wrote:

I will be replacing the oil cooler lines on my W123 soon.  Anyone know
of a good "how to" article for this job?

Allan
--
1983 300D

___
http://www.okiebenz.com
For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives h

Re: [MBZ] howto for oil cooler line replacement?

[Loren Faeth]

Allan,

You will be able to detect that some of this is tongue in cheek, but 
this is how I would recommend how to go about it.  It is mostly 
serious.  If you go through all the preparation steps, it will save 
you having to stop and go acquire something else.


Preparation

1.  Wash out the left side of the engine, hoses and oil cooler as 
well as you can at the carwash.  Steam cleaner is great, if you have 
access to one.  Wash upside down too.
2. buy a spare oil cooler.  Chances are the threads will be buggered 
up on yours, one side or the other.

3. get some Neverseize for the threads when you put the new hoses on.
4. Secure alternate transportation for a week or two if the project 
runs the normal course, and you have to wait for parts.
5.  Line up wrenches to fit the oil filter end (Adapter and nut) and 
the oil cooler end.
6. soak the oil cooler ends (nuts) with penetrating oil for 1-4 weeks 
in advance.
7.  Figure out a way to hold a 8-10 lb sledgehammer behind the nut 
while you whack it with a 2-4 lb hammer to loosen the corrosion.

8. designate a set of clothes to get covered in Diesel motor oil
9. buy a bag of floor dry
10. put the car up so you can crawl under it
11.  take a trial pull on the wrenches at the oil cooler 
fittings.  Take care not to damage the oil cooler.  If things are 
normal, one will loosen with major effort, and the other won't.  Now 
you know which one is really corroded.
12. line up an air grinder with a cutoff wheel, a dremel or some 
similar way to cut through the really stuck nut.


The actual job:

1.  Loosen oil filter cover  (It is a good time for an oil change)
2.  Loosen the nuts at the oil cooler.  Drain oil into a catch pan.
3.  Loosen the nuts at the oil filter
4.  loosen clamps that hold the hoses
5. remove the hoses, noting which one goes in which position and 
which one goes to which connection.  It is not easy, but it can be 
done.  I think I removed the left motor mount arm from the engine on 
the 240D to allow more room.  That means you need to support the 
engine from underneath.

6. install new hoses in reverse, putting neverseize on the cooler end threads.

Simple huh?

Notes:
Plan on getting a bath in oil.
You will need a trouble light to see the bolts on the clamps
For the nut that is really stuck:  We assume you have already soaked 
it for a month.  Next try beating on the nut with the hammer, being 
careful not to damage the body or the oil cooler or your 
fingers.  the goal is not so much to bash the nut as to pein it many 
times with enough force that the corrosion in the threads will 
loosen.  Rest, Go at it again.  If you have an air chisel, you can 
accomplish this easier with an air chisel, but it does not have the 
mass of the hammer, so it may not loosen the corrosion.


If that doesn't work:

Decision time:  You will either have to throw out the oil cooler with 
attached hose and use the new used one,
OR make a cut through the nut to try to get it to "pop" so that the 
corrosion will loosen.  This is irreversible and may result in 
needing to use the new used oil cooler
OR you can cut the ferrule off the old hose, remove the hose from the 
hose end, leaving the hose end on the oil cooler.  Then you have to 
cut the ferrule on the NEW hose, pull out the hose end, slide the 
hose onto the old hose end.  Put a clamp on it.


The hardest thing (aside form getting the stuck nut loose) is to keep 
a wrench on the aluminum lug on the oil cooler while you try to get 
that nut off without getting the oil cooler messed up beyond repair.


If anyone sells a flare nut wrench of that size, it would be worth 
the money.  I don't remember the size, but i think it might be 
19mm.  Flare nut wrenches for the nuts on both ends would be nice 
also, but people rarely have trouble with the oil filter end, as it 
is steel to steel.


Good luck!

At 05:55 PM 8/25/2009, you wrote:

I will be replacing the oil cooler lines on my W123 soon.  Anyone know
of a good "how to" article for this job?

Allan
--
1983 300D

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Loren Faeth 



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[MBZ] howto for oil cooler line replacement?

[Allan Streib]

I will be replacing the oil cooler lines on my W123 soon.  Anyone know
of a good "how to" article for this job?

Allan
-- 
1983 300D

___
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For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

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