Re: [MBZ] water separators

[Walt Zarnoch]

I have a racor that has a see-through bowl, I'll have to find it and
grab the number...

Walt

On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 7:22 PM, Dieselhead <126die...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Why racor you can't see into over a Stanadyne see through separator??
>
>  I know Racor is the default for the convert a pickup/Nova crowd. Never made
> sense to me.  The old guy that ran the injectionshop I used to go to always
> said roosamaster (later Stanadyne)  Because you could see it you needed to
> drain it.  the JD japanese tractors have a neat filter separator that shuts
> the engine down until you drain it. It is probably on Japanese cars in the
> RTW  Would work on a VW rotary pump, but won't directly shut off an MB
> without a vacuum solenoid.
>
>
>>  > ...His position on the need for water separators, as one example.
>>>
>>>
>>>  You think they are almost a necessity, IIRC. Which one would you
>>>  recommend?  Rick..
>>>
>> Racor.
>>
>> RLE
>>
>> _
>
>
> ___
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Re: [MBZ] water separators

[Dieselhead]

Why racor you can't see into over a Stanadyne see through separator??

 I know Racor is the default for the convert a pickup/Nova crowd. 
Never made sense to me.  The old guy that ran the injectionshop I 
used to go to always said roosamaster (later Stanadyne)  Because you 
could see it you needed to drain it.  the JD japanese tractors have a 
neat filter separator that shuts the engine down until you drain it. 
It is probably on Japanese cars in the RTW  Would work on a VW rotary 
pump, but won't directly shut off an MB without a vacuum solenoid.



 > ...His position on the need for water separators, as one example.


 You think they are almost a necessity, IIRC. Which one would you
 recommend? 
 Rick..



Racor.

RLE

_


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Re: [MBZ] water separators

[RELNGSON]

> ...His position on the need for water separators, as one example.
> 
> You think they are almost a necessity, IIRC. Which one would you 
> recommend? 
> Rick..
> 
Racor.

RLE

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Re: [MBZ] water separators

[RELNGSON]

> ...If you had less than two ounces of water per changing of the main 
> filter, maybe
> he had a point, but with no viewable/drainable water trap, how could you 
> know?..
> 
You would know by listening to the engine. Lots of nailing with water 
damaged injectors.

And please, no advice about buying at high volume stations. That's an old 
tune.

RLE
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] water separators

[Curt Raymond]

It still surprises me... In ~60,000 miles with my '83 240D I only once had fuel 
bad enough it was noticable. That was on the Taconic Parkway at ~1am at a very 
small station but I was dammed near out of fuel and needed something.
I've done ~90,000 miles in my 190D and changed the fuel filters yearly because 
it seemed like a good idea but never noticed anything untoward in the prefilter 
nor did I ever notice any change in how the car ran. In all those miles I've 
never touched an injector other than to replace return lines, twice in the 
240D, (the second after it had been out of my ownership for 2 years) once on 
the 190D.

In both cars once a year I run an entire bottle of Diesel Kleen (so something 
like 5x the suggested concentration) which is supposed to help deal with small 
amounts of water in the fuel.

Apparently your stations were used to truckers with water separators that could 
deal with small amounts of water in the fuel...

-Curt

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 19:42:09 EDT
From: relng...@aol.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] water separators
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

> ...Every diesel water separator I've ever seen (for instance the Racor
> unit often fitted to industrial diesels and easily available as an
> aftermarket kit, and the one integral with the fuel filter housing on
> VW TDIs) has a way to drain the accumulated water via a little petcock
> on the bottom or side.? Mercedes fuel filters have none such.? I may
> be wrong, but to me that's a strong clue that they don't perform any
> water separation...
> 
You are certainly not wrong, despite certain statements to the contrary.

When I bought my 300D new, and having come from a 116 450SE, I was very 
sensitive to random nailing. So whenever I started to hear it at idle, it was 
off to the dealer for a resolution. Which is why, during the 50K mile 
warranty period, they installed thirteen new injectors or injector tips and 
carefully set the pop-off pressures in the replacements. Which were 1850 psi at 
the 
time for the NA diesels, I think.

Near the end of the warranty, I became aware of the Racor water separator 
and purchased one from Seattle Injector for about $85.00 A friend and I 
fabricated a steel bracket (not aluminum because of the vibrations) which was 
mounted on the left fenderwell just opposite the main filter. The unit had an 
integral 4 micron filter and a Lexan (not glass) bowl with a petcock at the 
bottom. I plumbed the Racor inlet from the prefilter and the outlet to the 
main filter with the correct clamps to guarantee that no air could sneak in.

>From the day the Racor was installed, the sound of nailing was gone 
forever. That's another 70K miles until I traded the car. Even though very 
little 
water was ever observed trapped in the bowl which I drained frequently, I 
know it doesn't take much to damage the injector tips by forcing water through 
them. And that's where all my noise had come from before the Racor 
installation.

BTW, and before anybody pipes up, my fuel always came from a high volume 
station and even then, a bit of water seems to be unavoidable.

RLE


  
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Re: [MBZ] water separators

[Curt Raymond]

It does, you replace it. Water is out of the engine...

I'm not saying thats true but it seems reasonable. Different than other systems 
but still reasonable.

-Curt

Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 16:19:08 -0500
From: "Kaleb C. Striplin" 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] water separators
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Message-ID: <4abbe24c.8010...@striplin.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"

I can tell you there is no water separator built in.  If there was, 
there would be a way to drain the water out.

Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 wrote:
> You know, I was just wondering how to confirm Marshall's words and
> determine the source of his knowledge on this water separator that is
> supposed to be built in to the fuel filter.  How did you determine that
> he was wrong?
>
> Very respectfully,
> /s/
> LCDR Max Dillon
> '87 300TD 314k miles
> Charleston SC


  
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Re: [MBZ] water separators

[Jim Cathey]

I can tell you there is no water separator built in.  If there was, 
there would be a way to drain the water out.


"There is no ATF in this automatic transmission.  If there was, there
would be a dipstick to check the level."

Same kind of statement.  MB's big filter _is_ a water separator
(inherently, because it sucks fuel from the top, not the bottom),
but it's not intended to handle the water loads that a Racor can.
The water goes out when you throw out the filter.  (Maybe dumping
it out would work, I don't know.)

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] water separators

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 4:42 PM,   wrote:
> >From the day the Racor was installed, the sound of nailing was gone
> forever. That's another 70K miles until I traded the car. Even though very 
> little
> water was ever observed trapped in the bowl which I drained frequently, I
> know it doesn't take much to damage the injector tips by forcing water through
> them. And that's where all my noise had come from before the Racor
> installation.

Yes, I have observed exactly the same thing.  I almost never see any
appreciable amount of water in the bowl of the Racor on my whole-house
diesel generator set (with a Shindaiwa engine), yet it runs smoother
with it than without.

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] water separators

[OK Don]

Rusty-Jabba , do you sell Racor filter/seperators?

On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 7:13 PM, Loren Faeth wrote:

> Can't argue with RELLY on this one.  It only takes a minuscule bit of water
> to ruin a nozzle.  Seems like a lot of consecutive problems, but the racor
> filter separator is a good unit.  I prefer the Master one, because good used
>  ones are available, and as I said in a previous post, you are never far
> from a JD Dealer, NAPA or FLAPS that sells the cartridges, even in urban
> areas.
>
> As for fuel, the first bad load I got 20 some years ago was at a trusted
> high volume truckstop on the interstate.  The last one was at a coop
> elevator station.  Generally, the coops are real careful about their fuel,
> because the primary users are the people they need to stay in business.
> (Customers for the high dollar customers and services)  While I agree, a
> high volume truckstop is often the best, I have had good service from
> smaller locally owned stations.  Last summer I was buying fuel at a trusted
> supplier, and yet, in the period of only about 20 gallons of fuel
> consumption, the water separator shut down the engine twice.  At least the
> second time, I drained the separator first.  I still can't explain that one.
>  It either came out of the air or out of the fuel.  (or some from each
> source)
>
>
> --
> OK Don
> CONSERVATIVE, n.  A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as
> distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with
> others.
> The Devil's Dictionary
> Ambrose Bierce
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] water separators

[Loren Faeth]

Can't argue with RELLY on this one.  It only takes a minuscule bit of 
water to ruin a nozzle.  Seems like a lot of consecutive problems, 
but the racor filter separator is a good unit.  I prefer the Master 
one, because good used  ones are available, and as I said in a 
previous post, you are never far from a JD Dealer, NAPA or FLAPS that 
sells the cartridges, even in urban areas.


As for fuel, the first bad load I got 20 some years ago was at a 
trusted high volume truckstop on the interstate.  The last one was at 
a coop elevator station.  Generally, the coops are real careful about 
their fuel, because the primary users are the people they need to 
stay in business. (Customers for the high dollar customers and 
services)  While I agree, a high volume truckstop is often the best, 
I have had good service from smaller locally owned stations.  Last 
summer I was buying fuel at a trusted supplier, and yet, in the 
period of only about 20 gallons of fuel consumption, the water 
separator shut down the engine twice.  At least the second time, I 
drained the separator first.  I still can't explain that one.  It 
either came out of the air or out of the fuel.  (or some from each source)


At 06:42 PM 9/24/2009, you wrote:

> ...Every diesel water separator I've ever seen (for instance the Racor
> unit often fitted to industrial diesels and easily available as an
> aftermarket kit, and the one integral with the fuel filter housing on
> VW TDIs) has a way to drain the accumulated water via a little petcock
> on the bottom or side.  Mercedes fuel filters have none such.  I may
> be wrong, but to me that's a strong clue that they don't perform any
> water separation...
>
You are certainly not wrong, despite certain statements to the contrary.

When I bought my 300D new, and having come from a 116 450SE, I was very
sensitive to random nailing. So whenever I started to hear it at idle, it was
off to the dealer for a resolution. Which is why, during the 50K mile
warranty period, they installed thirteen new injectors or injector tips and
carefully set the pop-off pressures in the replacements. Which were 
1850 psi at the

time for the NA diesels, I think.

Near the end of the warranty, I became aware of the Racor water separator
and purchased one from Seattle Injector for about $85.00 A friend and I
fabricated a steel bracket (not aluminum because of the vibrations) which was
mounted on the left fenderwell just opposite the main filter. The unit had an
integral 4 micron filter and a Lexan (not glass) bowl with a petcock at the
bottom. I plumbed the Racor inlet from the prefilter and the outlet to the
main filter with the correct clamps to guarantee that no air could sneak in.

>From the day the Racor was installed, the sound of nailing was gone
forever. That's another 70K miles until I traded the car. Even 
though very little

water was ever observed trapped in the bowl which I drained frequently, I
know it doesn't take much to damage the injector tips by forcing 
water through

them. And that's where all my noise had come from before the Racor
installation.

BTW, and before anybody pipes up, my fuel always came from a high volume
station and even then, a bit of water seems to be unavoidable.

RLE




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Loren Faeth 



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Re: [MBZ] water separators

[RELNGSON]

> ...Every diesel water separator I've ever seen (for instance the Racor
> unit often fitted to industrial diesels and easily available as an
> aftermarket kit, and the one integral with the fuel filter housing on
> VW TDIs) has a way to drain the accumulated water via a little petcock
> on the bottom or side.  Mercedes fuel filters have none such.  I may
> be wrong, but to me that's a strong clue that they don't perform any
> water separation...
> 
You are certainly not wrong, despite certain statements to the contrary.

When I bought my 300D new, and having come from a 116 450SE, I was very 
sensitive to random nailing. So whenever I started to hear it at idle, it was 
off to the dealer for a resolution. Which is why, during the 50K mile 
warranty period, they installed thirteen new injectors or injector tips and 
carefully set the pop-off pressures in the replacements. Which were 1850 psi at 
the 
time for the NA diesels, I think.

Near the end of the warranty, I became aware of the Racor water separator 
and purchased one from Seattle Injector for about $85.00 A friend and I 
fabricated a steel bracket (not aluminum because of the vibrations) which was 
mounted on the left fenderwell just opposite the main filter. The unit had an 
integral 4 micron filter and a Lexan (not glass) bowl with a petcock at the 
bottom. I plumbed the Racor inlet from the prefilter and the outlet to the 
main filter with the correct clamps to guarantee that no air could sneak in.

>From the day the Racor was installed, the sound of nailing was gone 
forever. That's another 70K miles until I traded the car. Even though very 
little 
water was ever observed trapped in the bowl which I drained frequently, I 
know it doesn't take much to damage the injector tips by forcing water through 
them. And that's where all my noise had come from before the Racor 
installation.

BTW, and before anybody pipes up, my fuel always came from a high volume 
station and even then, a bit of water seems to be unavoidable.

RLE




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Re: [MBZ] water separators

[Loren Faeth]

No, but by its design, it can trap some small quantity of water.  At 
least is is not like the old GM filters that put fuel/water in the 
top and draw whatever liquid goes in, out the bottom, water first.


At 04:19 PM 9/24/2009, you wrote:
I can tell you there is no water separator built in.  If there was, 
there would be a way to drain the water out.


Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 wrote:

You know, I was just wondering how to confirm Marshall's words and
determine the source of his knowledge on this water separator that is
supposed to be built in to the fuel filter.  How did you determine that
he was wrong?

Very respectfully,
/s/
LCDR Max Dillon
'87 300TD 314k miles
Charleston SC



-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com
[mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of relng...@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 3:38 PM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] water separators


Didn't Marshall say that a Benz didn't need an additional 
water separator?..




He said that and he was flat wrong. I proved it on my own car. And there
was no factory water separation in stock form.

You know, not every single word uttered by him was the voice of God
speaking as some seem to believe.

RLE





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95 E300, 92 500SEL, 92 300SD, 92 300E 4Matic, 91 300D, 91 300E, 89 
560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 84 300D 
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Loren Faeth 



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Re: [MBZ] water separators

[Kaleb C. Striplin]

I can tell you there is no water separator built in.  If there was, 
there would be a way to drain the water out.


Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310 wrote:

You know, I was just wondering how to confirm Marshall's words and
determine the source of his knowledge on this water separator that is
supposed to be built in to the fuel filter.  How did you determine that
he was wrong?

Very respectfully,
/s/
LCDR Max Dillon
'87 300TD 314k miles
Charleston SC

 


-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com
[mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of relng...@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 3:38 PM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] water separators

  
Didn't Marshall say that a Benz didn't need an additional water 
separator?..




He said that and he was flat wrong. I proved it on my own car. And there
was no factory water separation in stock form.

You know, not every single word uttered by him was the voice of God
speaking as some seem to believe.

RLE
  



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89 560SEL, 87 300SDL x2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 85 190D, 84 190D, 
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Re: [MBZ] water separators

[Alex Chamberlain]

On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 3:54 AM, Dillon, Meade M CIV
SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310  wrote:
> You know, I was just wondering how to confirm Marshall's words and
> determine the source of his knowledge on this water separator that is
> supposed to be built in to the fuel filter.  How did you determine that
> he was wrong?

Every diesel water separator I've ever seen (for instance the Racor
unit often fitted to industrial diesels and easily available as an
aftermarket kit, and the one integral with the fuel filter housing on
VW TDIs) has a way to drain the accumulated water via a little petcock
on the bottom or side.  Mercedes fuel filters have none such.  I may
be wrong, but to me that's a strong clue that they don't perform any
water separation.

Alex

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Re: [MBZ] water separators

[Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310]

You know, I was just wondering how to confirm Marshall's words and
determine the source of his knowledge on this water separator that is
supposed to be built in to the fuel filter.  How did you determine that
he was wrong?

Very respectfully,
/s/
LCDR Max Dillon
'87 300TD 314k miles
Charleston SC

 

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com
[mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of relng...@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 3:38 PM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] water separators

> Didn't Marshall say that a Benz didn't need an additional water 
> separator?..
> 
He said that and he was flat wrong. I proved it on my own car. And there
was no factory water separation in stock form.

You know, not every single word uttered by him was the voice of God
speaking as some seem to believe.

RLE
> 
> 

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Re: [MBZ] water separators

[RELNGSON]

> Didn't Marshall say that a Benz didn't need an additional water 
> separator?..
> 
He said that and he was flat wrong. I proved it on my own car. And there 
was no factory water separation in stock form.

You know, not every single word uttered by him was the voice of God 
speaking as some seem to believe.

RLE
> 
> 

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