Re: [MBZ] Today's 400E Fun

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

I hired a trim shop to install a new headliner in my 1970 280SE 3.5 sunroof
coupe 15 years ago.  Because the body shop had already removed the old
headliner, the tech in the trim shop had a steep learning curve and charged
me 30 hours ($900) for labor.  The headliner itself was about $100 IIRC.

On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 12:51 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  wrote:

> Ditto for the Cessna - it's headliner was MIA, so we installed a new one -
> shark's teeth around the edges, metal bows on top - the missing ones
> fabricated from welding rod - and a couple of wrinkles at the end.
>
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 11:44 AM, archer75--- via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Thanks Max,
> > I put a new headliner in my '35 Chevy after WW-2. It had the metal ribs,
> > and it wasn't easy. I don't remember how I did it, but I do remember
> there
> > were some wrinkles after the job was finished.
> > Gerry
> >
> >
> >
> >  Meade Dillon wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> Gerry, no.  This headliner system started mid-way in the 124 series.
> > > >Your
> > > >> car probably has a cloth headliner that is suspended with metal
> rods,
> > > >far
> > > >> more durable.  Early 124 cars had the same.  I've thought about
> > > >getting the
> > > >> headliner from an early 124 sedan to fit into my '95, the hard part
> > > >is the
> > > >> frame at the top of the rear window which is clipped under the
> > > >back-light
> > > >> glass.  I think there are about six clips embedded in the glue hold
> > > >the
> > > >> glass in place, I don't see an easy way to do that short of taking
> > > >the
> > > >> glass out.  Maybe some rivets or spot welding?
> > > >>
> > > >> -
> > > >> Max
> > > >> Charleston SC
> > > >>
> > > >> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 7:34 AM, archer75--- via Mercedes <
> > > >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Would an '83 240D have the same headliner system?
> > > >>> Thanks,
> > > >>> Gerry
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >> ___
> > > >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> > > >>
> > > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > > >>
> > > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >___
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> > >
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> >
> >
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>
>
> --
> OK Don
>
> *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
> our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
>
> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> for themselves."
>
> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Today's 400E Fun

[OK Don via Mercedes]

Ditto for the Cessna - it's headliner was MIA, so we installed a new one -
shark's teeth around the edges, metal bows on top - the missing ones
fabricated from welding rod - and a couple of wrinkles at the end.

On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 11:44 AM, archer75--- via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> Thanks Max,
> I put a new headliner in my '35 Chevy after WW-2. It had the metal ribs,
> and it wasn't easy. I don't remember how I did it, but I do remember there
> were some wrinkles after the job was finished.
> Gerry
>
>
>
>  Meade Dillon wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Gerry, no.  This headliner system started mid-way in the 124 series.
> > >Your
> > >> car probably has a cloth headliner that is suspended with metal rods,
> > >far
> > >> more durable.  Early 124 cars had the same.  I've thought about
> > >getting the
> > >> headliner from an early 124 sedan to fit into my '95, the hard part
> > >is the
> > >> frame at the top of the rear window which is clipped under the
> > >back-light
> > >> glass.  I think there are about six clips embedded in the glue hold
> > >the
> > >> glass in place, I don't see an easy way to do that short of taking
> > >the
> > >> glass out.  Maybe some rivets or spot welding?
> > >>
> > >> -
> > >> Max
> > >> Charleston SC
> > >>
> > >> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 7:34 AM, archer75--- via Mercedes <
> > >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Would an '83 240D have the same headliner system?
> > >>> Thanks,
> > >>> Gerry
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >> ___
> > >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> > >>
> > >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > >>
> > >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >___
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> > >
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> > >
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>
>
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-- 
OK Don

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Today's 400E Fun

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

Thanks Max,
I put a new headliner in my '35 Chevy after WW-2. It had the metal ribs, and it 
wasn't easy. I don't remember how I did it, but I do remember there were some 
wrinkles after the job was finished.
Gerry



 Meade Dillon wrote:
> >> 
> >> Gerry, no.  This headliner system started mid-way in the 124 series. 
> >Your
> >> car probably has a cloth headliner that is suspended with metal rods,
> >far
> >> more durable.  Early 124 cars had the same.  I've thought about
> >getting the
> >> headliner from an early 124 sedan to fit into my '95, the hard part
> >is the
> >> frame at the top of the rear window which is clipped under the
> >back-light
> >> glass.  I think there are about six clips embedded in the glue hold
> >the
> >> glass in place, I don't see an easy way to do that short of taking
> >the
> >> glass out.  Maybe some rivets or spot welding?
> >> 
> >> -
> >> Max
> >> Charleston SC
> >> 
> >> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 7:34 AM, archer75--- via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >> 
> >>> Would an '83 240D have the same headliner system?
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Gerry
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >> 
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >> 
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >> 
> >
> >
> >___
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Re: [MBZ] Today's 400E Fun

[Mitch Haley via Mercedes]

Hey, if it costs less, weighs less, and outlasts the warranty, it's progress.
Mitch
> On April 30, 2018 at 10:46 AM Dan--- via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> I wish it was the old style with the bows and stuff.  I wouldn’t be messing 
> with it if that were the case.
> 
> So much for progress

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Re: [MBZ] Today's 400E Fun

[Dan--- via Mercedes]

I wish it was the old style with the bows and stuff.  I wouldn’t be messing 
with it if that were the case.

So much for progress

-D

On Apr 30, 2018, at 10:43 AM, Jim Cathey via Mercedes  
wrote:

>> 
>> I think it is cost saving, probably much faster to install, less weight,
>> easier to replace in future.
> 
> 
> Good thing it's all of those, since you'll be replacing it three or four
> times to the one of the old style!
> 
> -- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] Today's 400E Fun

[Jim Cathey via Mercedes]

>
> I think it is cost saving, probably much faster to install, less weight,
> easier to replace in future.


Good thing it's all of those, since you'll be replacing it three or four
times to the one of the old style!

-- Jim
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Re: [MBZ] Today's 400E Fun

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

I think it is cost saving, probably much faster to install, less weight, easier 
to replace in future.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On April 30, 2018 8:59:29 AM EDT, "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes" 
 wrote:
>I wonder why they changed that half way thru the 124 run? Must have
>cheapened our or something. 
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Apr 30, 2018, at 7:10 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes
> wrote:
>> 
>> Gerry, no.  This headliner system started mid-way in the 124 series. 
>Your
>> car probably has a cloth headliner that is suspended with metal rods,
>far
>> more durable.  Early 124 cars had the same.  I've thought about
>getting the
>> headliner from an early 124 sedan to fit into my '95, the hard part
>is the
>> frame at the top of the rear window which is clipped under the
>back-light
>> glass.  I think there are about six clips embedded in the glue hold
>the
>> glass in place, I don't see an easy way to do that short of taking
>the
>> glass out.  Maybe some rivets or spot welding?
>> 
>> -
>> Max
>> Charleston SC
>> 
>> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 7:34 AM, archer75--- via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Would an '83 240D have the same headliner system?
>>> Thanks,
>>> Gerry
>>> 
>>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Today's 400E Fun

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

I wonder why they changed that half way thru the 124 run? Must have cheapened 
our or something. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 30, 2018, at 7:10 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Gerry, no.  This headliner system started mid-way in the 124 series.  Your
> car probably has a cloth headliner that is suspended with metal rods, far
> more durable.  Early 124 cars had the same.  I've thought about getting the
> headliner from an early 124 sedan to fit into my '95, the hard part is the
> frame at the top of the rear window which is clipped under the back-light
> glass.  I think there are about six clips embedded in the glue hold the
> glass in place, I don't see an easy way to do that short of taking the
> glass out.  Maybe some rivets or spot welding?
> 
> -
> Max
> Charleston SC
> 
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 7:34 AM, archer75--- via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> Would an '83 240D have the same headliner system?
>> Thanks,
>> Gerry
>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Today's 400E Fun

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Gerry, no.  This headliner system started mid-way in the 124 series.  Your
car probably has a cloth headliner that is suspended with metal rods, far
more durable.  Early 124 cars had the same.  I've thought about getting the
headliner from an early 124 sedan to fit into my '95, the hard part is the
frame at the top of the rear window which is clipped under the back-light
glass.  I think there are about six clips embedded in the glue hold the
glass in place, I don't see an easy way to do that short of taking the
glass out.  Maybe some rivets or spot welding?

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 7:34 AM, archer75--- via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Would an '83 240D have the same headliner system?
> Thanks,
> Gerry
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Today's 400E Fun

[archer75--- via Mercedes]

Would an '83 240D have the same headliner system?
Thanks,
Gerry

Dan Penoff wrote:
> While my roof is being done I decided to take the day off and work on the 
> 400E some more, since a car had to be trapped inside the garage as the 
> roofer’s rolloff container for the old roofing had to be placed in front of 
> the garage.
> Took the sagging headliner out, stripped the headliner board and fabric, and 
> reglued everything.
> It was unpleasant and if this wasn’t a $650 car I wouldn’t have done it this 
> way….
> 
> Getting the headliner out wasn’t bad, just time consuming. Dealing with all 
> the disintegrating foam that came out of it during the removal was not fun.
> 
> Stripping the old foam and glue from the headliner “board” wasn’t bad, nor 
> was stripping the fabric.  In fact, the stuff came off the fabric pretty well.
> 
> Regluing the old fabric was a PITA, to put it bluntly.  While there wasn’t 
> any problem with stretching it or making it fit, without the foam backing to 
> mask the contour of the board every little bump and dip showed up.  One could 
> easily blow this off as it’s not terribly noticeable once the headliner is 
> back in the car, but I know it’s there….
> 
> Anyway, got it all back together after dinner and it no longer hangs down on 
> the rear seat passengers.  I left the B pillar covers loose, as I’m going to 
> pull them tomorrow and reglue the vinyl covering on both.
> 
> -D
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Today's 400E Fun

[G Mann via Mercedes]

I have had some past success removing the "dead foam" from headliner cards
using nylon dish brush [the kind with a handle] to break loose the
remaining foam bits from the headliner card without doing damage to it.

It also helps to use two folding tables as a work surface to support the
headliner while you "scrub" the foam bits off. Shop vacuum in one hand,
dish brush in the other, while holding the headliner steady with your third
hand ;))

It's a bitch of a job...
YMMV,
Grant

On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 7:34 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Take out the “A” pillar trim, “B" pillar trim, loosen the leading edge of
> the “C” pillar trim, pull off the windlace that goes around the door
> openings, remove the rear courtesy light, remove trim strip on the leading
> edge of the sunroof opening, remove the grab handles and trim panel
> containing the rear view mirror, sun visors/clips and courtesy light.  Pull
> forward slightly to disengage the locking strip on the trailing edge of the
> sunroof opening.
>
> Then the fun begins.
>
> Move the seats forward as far as they will go, then lower the seat backs
> down as far as they will go.  I can’t explain how to do it, but once the
> headliner board is removed from the roof you just have to orient it so it
> comes out one of the back doors.  Takes a little finagling but that’s how
> it comes out and goes back in.
>
> It’s not a difficult job, just time consuming.
>
> -D
>
>
> > On Apr 28, 2018, at 9:44 AM, Craig via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> >
> > On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 08:58:55 -0400 Max Dillon via Mercedes
> >  wrote:
> >
> >> What method and tools did you use to strip off the board and the
> >> headliner fabric?  I've got same problem on my E300.
> >
> > My question is, how do you get the headliner board out?
> >
> >
> > Craig
> >
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> >
>
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Re: [MBZ] Today's 400E Fun

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Take out the “A” pillar trim, “B" pillar trim, loosen the leading edge of the 
“C” pillar trim, pull off the windlace that goes around the door openings, 
remove the rear courtesy light, remove trim strip on the leading edge of the 
sunroof opening, remove the grab handles and trim panel containing the rear 
view mirror, sun visors/clips and courtesy light.  Pull forward slightly to 
disengage the locking strip on the trailing edge of the sunroof opening.

Then the fun begins.

Move the seats forward as far as they will go, then lower the seat backs down 
as far as they will go.  I can’t explain how to do it, but once the headliner 
board is removed from the roof you just have to orient it so it comes out one 
of the back doors.  Takes a little finagling but that’s how it comes out and 
goes back in.

It’s not a difficult job, just time consuming.

-D


> On Apr 28, 2018, at 9:44 AM, Craig via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 08:58:55 -0400 Max Dillon via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> 
>> What method and tools did you use to strip off the board and the
>> headliner fabric?  I've got same problem on my E300.
> 
> My question is, how do you get the headliner board out?
> 
> 
> Craig
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Today's 400E Fun

[Craig via Mercedes]

On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 08:58:55 -0400 Max Dillon via Mercedes
 wrote:

> What method and tools did you use to strip off the board and the
> headliner fabric?  I've got same problem on my E300.

My question is, how do you get the headliner board out?


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Today's 400E Fun

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Nothing more than a plastic putty knife and a shop vac.

If you use a shop vac with a plastic nozzle you can scrape and remove the 
remains of the foam from the headliner board without a lot of difficulty, and 
it’s not terribly messy.  Try to avoid scraping it into big clumps, as these 
will end up sticking to the board and are pretty much impossible to remove.  
The fabric has to be laid out and scraped with a wide plastic putty knife, but 
if you’re light with your touch and just sort of “sweep” it with the putty 
knife the remains of the foam comes off pretty easily and leaves little in the 
way of residue.

I put the scraped headliner board out in the sun for a while to harden up the 
remaining glue.  A fair amount of the little “pills” came off after I did this 
since they weren’t sticky any more.

From there I hung the fabric up from my (raised) garage door using some clamps 
to hold it, then used the brush attachment on my shop vac to clear off the 
remains of the glue and foam.

It’s messy, there’s no denying it.  But using the shop vac goes a long way in 
keeping the mess to a minimum.

Here are some pictures:

http://penoff.com/photodump.html 

B pillar covers get done today, probably.

 
> On Apr 28, 2018, at 8:58 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> What method and tools did you use to strip off the board and the headliner 
> fabric?  I've got same problem on my E300.
> -- 
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '87 300TD
> '95 E300
> 
> On April 27, 2018 9:10:22 PM EDT, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
>> While my roof is being done I decided to take the day off and work on
>> the 400E some more, since a car had to be trapped inside the garage as
>> the roofer’s rolloff container for the old roofing had to be placed in
>> front of the garage.
>> 
>> Took the sagging headliner out, stripped the headliner board and
>> fabric, and reglued everything.
>> 
>> It was unpleasant and if this wasn’t a $650 car I wouldn’t have done it
>> this way….
>> 
>> Getting the headliner out wasn’t bad, just time consuming. Dealing with
>> all the disintegrating foam that came out of it during the removal was
>> not fun.
>> 
>> Stripping the old foam and glue from the headliner “board” wasn’t bad,
>> nor was stripping the fabric.  In fact, the stuff came off the fabric
>> pretty well.
>> 
>> Regluing the old fabric was a PITA, to put it bluntly.  While there
>> wasn’t any problem with stretching it or making it fit, without the
>> foam backing to mask the contour of the board every little bump and dip
>> showed up.  One could easily blow this off as it’s not terribly
>> noticeable once the headliner is back in the car, but I know it’s
>> there….
>> 
>> Anyway, got it all back together after dinner and it no longer hangs
>> down on the rear seat passengers.  I left the B pillar covers loose, as
>> I’m going to pull them tomorrow and reglue the vinyl covering on both.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
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>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Today's 400E Fun

[Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes]

The daughter unit’s 124 has the saggy liner problem now too. Might have to look 
into this. 

--R
Sent from iPhone

> On Apr 28, 2018, at 9:00 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> The material I got for the wagon is new, and from JoAnn fabrics.  They stock 
> foam backed headliner material at the stores, and if you use one of their 
> many coupons, it’s pretty cheap.
> 
> -D
> 
> 
>> On Apr 28, 2018, at 8:57 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Where did you get new material, and does it have the foam backing?
>> -- 
>> Max Dillon
>> Charleston SC
>> '87 300TD
>> '95 E300
>> 
>>> On April 27, 2018 9:17:00 PM EDT, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> Thanks!
>>> 
>>> This is just a run-up to doing the headliner in the W210 wagon.  I’ve
>>> got the new material for it, but it’s still going to be a pig of a job…
>>> 
>> 
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>> 
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>> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Today's 400E Fun

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

The material I got for the wagon is new, and from JoAnn fabrics.  They stock 
foam backed headliner material at the stores, and if you use one of their many 
coupons, it’s pretty cheap.

-D


> On Apr 28, 2018, at 8:57 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Where did you get new material, and does it have the foam backing?
> -- 
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '87 300TD
> '95 E300
> 
> On April 27, 2018 9:17:00 PM EDT, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> This is just a run-up to doing the headliner in the W210 wagon.  I’ve
>> got the new material for it, but it’s still going to be a pig of a job…
>> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Today's 400E Fun

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

What method and tools did you use to strip off the board and the headliner 
fabric?  I've got same problem on my E300.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On April 27, 2018 9:10:22 PM EDT, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>While my roof is being done I decided to take the day off and work on
>the 400E some more, since a car had to be trapped inside the garage as
>the roofer’s rolloff container for the old roofing had to be placed in
>front of the garage.
>
>Took the sagging headliner out, stripped the headliner board and
>fabric, and reglued everything.
>
>It was unpleasant and if this wasn’t a $650 car I wouldn’t have done it
>this way….
>
>Getting the headliner out wasn’t bad, just time consuming. Dealing with
>all the disintegrating foam that came out of it during the removal was
>not fun.
>
>Stripping the old foam and glue from the headliner “board” wasn’t bad,
>nor was stripping the fabric.  In fact, the stuff came off the fabric
>pretty well.
>
>Regluing the old fabric was a PITA, to put it bluntly.  While there
>wasn’t any problem with stretching it or making it fit, without the
>foam backing to mask the contour of the board every little bump and dip
>showed up.  One could easily blow this off as it’s not terribly
>noticeable once the headliner is back in the car, but I know it’s
>there….
>
>Anyway, got it all back together after dinner and it no longer hangs
>down on the rear seat passengers.  I left the B pillar covers loose, as
>I’m going to pull them tomorrow and reglue the vinyl covering on both.
>
>-D
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Today's 400E Fun

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Where did you get new material, and does it have the foam backing?
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On April 27, 2018 9:17:00 PM EDT, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>Thanks!
>
>This is just a run-up to doing the headliner in the W210 wagon.  I’ve
>got the new material for it, but it’s still going to be a pig of a job…
>

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Re: [MBZ] Today's 400E Fun

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

Braver man than I AM. Not sure I would,tackle a,new,headliner

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Apr 27, 2018 9:17 PM, "Dan Penoff via Mercedes" 
wrote:

> Thanks!
>
> This is just a run-up to doing the headliner in the W210 wagon.  I’ve got
> the new material for it, but it’s still going to be a pig of a job…
>
> -D
>
>
> > On Apr 27, 2018, at 9:12 PM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > Attaboy Dan.
> >
> > Dwight Giles Jr.
> > Wickford RI
> >
> > On Apr 27, 2018 9:10 PM, "Dan Penoff via Mercedes" <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> While my roof is being done I decided to take the day off and work on
> the
> >> 400E some more, since a car had to be trapped inside the garage as the
> >> roofer’s rolloff container for the old roofing had to be placed in
> front of
> >> the garage.
> >>
> >> Took the sagging headliner out, stripped the headliner board and fabric,
> >> and reglued everything.
> >>
> >> It was unpleasant and if this wasn’t a $650 car I wouldn’t have done it
> >> this way….
> >>
> >> Getting the headliner out wasn’t bad, just time consuming. Dealing with
> >> all the disintegrating foam that came out of it during the removal was
> not
> >> fun.
> >>
> >> Stripping the old foam and glue from the headliner “board” wasn’t bad,
> nor
> >> was stripping the fabric.  In fact, the stuff came off the fabric pretty
> >> well.
> >>
> >> Regluing the old fabric was a PITA, to put it bluntly.  While there
> wasn’t
> >> any problem with stretching it or making it fit, without the foam
> backing
> >> to mask the contour of the board every little bump and dip showed up.
> One
> >> could easily blow this off as it’s not terribly noticeable once the
> >> headliner is back in the car, but I know it’s there….
> >>
> >> Anyway, got it all back together after dinner and it no longer hangs
> down
> >> on the rear seat passengers.  I left the B pillar covers loose, as I’m
> >> going to pull them tomorrow and reglue the vinyl covering on both.
> >>
> >> -D
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
> >> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
> >>
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> >
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>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Today's 400E Fun

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Thanks!

This is just a run-up to doing the headliner in the W210 wagon.  I’ve got the 
new material for it, but it’s still going to be a pig of a job…

-D


> On Apr 27, 2018, at 9:12 PM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Attaboy Dan.
> 
> Dwight Giles Jr.
> Wickford RI
> 
> On Apr 27, 2018 9:10 PM, "Dan Penoff via Mercedes" 
> wrote:
> 
>> While my roof is being done I decided to take the day off and work on the
>> 400E some more, since a car had to be trapped inside the garage as the
>> roofer’s rolloff container for the old roofing had to be placed in front of
>> the garage.
>> 
>> Took the sagging headliner out, stripped the headliner board and fabric,
>> and reglued everything.
>> 
>> It was unpleasant and if this wasn’t a $650 car I wouldn’t have done it
>> this way….
>> 
>> Getting the headliner out wasn’t bad, just time consuming. Dealing with
>> all the disintegrating foam that came out of it during the removal was not
>> fun.
>> 
>> Stripping the old foam and glue from the headliner “board” wasn’t bad, nor
>> was stripping the fabric.  In fact, the stuff came off the fabric pretty
>> well.
>> 
>> Regluing the old fabric was a PITA, to put it bluntly.  While there wasn’t
>> any problem with stretching it or making it fit, without the foam backing
>> to mask the contour of the board every little bump and dip showed up.  One
>> could easily blow this off as it’s not terribly noticeable once the
>> headliner is back in the car, but I know it’s there….
>> 
>> Anyway, got it all back together after dinner and it no longer hangs down
>> on the rear seat passengers.  I left the B pillar covers loose, as I’m
>> going to pull them tomorrow and reglue the vinyl covering on both.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Today's 400E Fun

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

Attaboy Dan.

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Apr 27, 2018 9:10 PM, "Dan Penoff via Mercedes" 
wrote:

> While my roof is being done I decided to take the day off and work on the
> 400E some more, since a car had to be trapped inside the garage as the
> roofer’s rolloff container for the old roofing had to be placed in front of
> the garage.
>
> Took the sagging headliner out, stripped the headliner board and fabric,
> and reglued everything.
>
> It was unpleasant and if this wasn’t a $650 car I wouldn’t have done it
> this way….
>
> Getting the headliner out wasn’t bad, just time consuming. Dealing with
> all the disintegrating foam that came out of it during the removal was not
> fun.
>
> Stripping the old foam and glue from the headliner “board” wasn’t bad, nor
> was stripping the fabric.  In fact, the stuff came off the fabric pretty
> well.
>
> Regluing the old fabric was a PITA, to put it bluntly.  While there wasn’t
> any problem with stretching it or making it fit, without the foam backing
> to mask the contour of the board every little bump and dip showed up.  One
> could easily blow this off as it’s not terribly noticeable once the
> headliner is back in the car, but I know it’s there….
>
> Anyway, got it all back together after dinner and it no longer hangs down
> on the rear seat passengers.  I left the B pillar covers loose, as I’m
> going to pull them tomorrow and reglue the vinyl covering on both.
>
> -D
>
>
> ___
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>
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>
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[MBZ] Today's 400E Fun

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

While my roof is being done I decided to take the day off and work on the 400E 
some more, since a car had to be trapped inside the garage as the roofer’s 
rolloff container for the old roofing had to be placed in front of the garage.

Took the sagging headliner out, stripped the headliner board and fabric, and 
reglued everything.

It was unpleasant and if this wasn’t a $650 car I wouldn’t have done it this 
way….

Getting the headliner out wasn’t bad, just time consuming. Dealing with all the 
disintegrating foam that came out of it during the removal was not fun.

Stripping the old foam and glue from the headliner “board” wasn’t bad, nor was 
stripping the fabric.  In fact, the stuff came off the fabric pretty well.

Regluing the old fabric was a PITA, to put it bluntly.  While there wasn’t any 
problem with stretching it or making it fit, without the foam backing to mask 
the contour of the board every little bump and dip showed up.  One could easily 
blow this off as it’s not terribly noticeable once the headliner is back in the 
car, but I know it’s there….

Anyway, got it all back together after dinner and it no longer hangs down on 
the rear seat passengers.  I left the B pillar covers loose, as I’m going to 
pull them tomorrow and reglue the vinyl covering on both.

-D


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[MBZ] Today's 400E Fun - Mirror Boots!

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Got a good set of used mirror boots.  Took the mirrors off, cleaned everything 
up, soaked the new (used) boots in a bucket of hot water to soften them up and 
got them installed.  Slathered both with lots and lots of 303 to protect them.  
The old ones were so bad I had to literally chip them off the mirrors in pieces.

Pics to follow on the blog tonight.  I may hold off until tomorrow, as I’m 
seriously considering regluing the headliner tomorrow.  Hmm.

-D


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Re: [MBZ] Today's 400E Fun/Confusion

[Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes]

I have no doubt you will get it running. Should be a fun car and well worth
the trouble. I push my skinny 420 tires to the limit fairly often so the
sportier suspension on the 400e would be very nice.

On Feb 25, 2018 1:28 PM, "Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes" <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

Sounds like you are in over your head on this one.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 25, 2018, at 2:25 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> I have the same diagnostic system the dealer has. It’s unlikely the
dealer has anyone capable of working on this car at the level required.
>
> I have a third (yes, third) generation MB independent nearby that would
be my go-to for this if I was to start asking for help at that level.
They’ve forgotten more than the dealer ever knew.
>
> -D
>
>
>> On Feb 25, 2018, at 3:22 PM, Andrew Strasfogel 
wrote:
>>
>> If beyond this point you are still stuck, would you consider having a
dealer to perform an advanced diagnostic test?
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 2:40 PM, Dan--- via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com > wrote:
>> Thanks, Karl, PM sent.
>>
>> The typical culprits for these cars, which are nearly identical
functionally to the W140s of the same vintage, is bad wiring. However, mine
has all been replaced as has the ETA.
>>
>> As for the diagnostics, they’re actually pretty good for this vintage
model, and for that matter, the same on all other MBs of the same vintage,
so there’s nothing unique as far as the V8 W124 over any other model
produced at or around the same time.
>>
>> I’m not ready to toss in the towel.  It’s narrowed down now so it’s just
a matter of being able to zero in on the affected part and have at it
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Dan
>>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Today's 400E Fun/Confusion

[Max Dillon via Mercedes]

Is the ASR light supposed to be lit in limp home mode?

Is limp home mode on all the time, or intermittent?
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300
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Re: [MBZ] Today's 400E Fun/Confusion

[Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes]

Sounds like you are in over your head on this one. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 25, 2018, at 2:25 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I have the same diagnostic system the dealer has. It’s unlikely the dealer 
> has anyone capable of working on this car at the level required.
> 
> I have a third (yes, third) generation MB independent nearby that would be my 
> go-to for this if I was to start asking for help at that level.  They’ve 
> forgotten more than the dealer ever knew.
> 
> -D
> 
> 
>> On Feb 25, 2018, at 3:22 PM, Andrew Strasfogel  wrote:
>> 
>> If beyond this point you are still stuck, would you consider having a dealer 
>> to perform an advanced diagnostic test?
>> 
>> On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 2:40 PM, Dan--- via Mercedes > > wrote:
>> Thanks, Karl, PM sent.
>> 
>> The typical culprits for these cars, which are nearly identical functionally 
>> to the W140s of the same vintage, is bad wiring. However, mine has all been 
>> replaced as has the ETA.
>> 
>> As for the diagnostics, they’re actually pretty good for this vintage model, 
>> and for that matter, the same on all other MBs of the same vintage, so 
>> there’s nothing unique as far as the V8 W124 over any other model produced 
>> at or around the same time.
>> 
>> I’m not ready to toss in the towel.  It’s narrowed down now so it’s just a 
>> matter of being able to zero in on the affected part and have at it
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> Dan
>> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Today's 400E Fun/Confusion

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

I keep on forgetting that the '90s models -- although still "new" to me --
are in fact are antiquated and of little interest to the dealership
community.

On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 3:25 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I have the same diagnostic system the dealer has. It’s unlikely the dealer
> has anyone capable of working on this car at the level required.
>
> I have a third (yes, third) generation MB independent nearby that would be
> my go-to for this if I was to start asking for help at that level.  They’ve
> forgotten more than the dealer ever knew.
>
> -D
>
>
> > On Feb 25, 2018, at 3:22 PM, Andrew Strasfogel 
> wrote:
> >
> > If beyond this point you are still stuck, would you consider having a
> dealer to perform an advanced diagnostic test?
> >
> > On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 2:40 PM, Dan--- via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com > wrote:
> > Thanks, Karl, PM sent.
> >
> > The typical culprits for these cars, which are nearly identical
> functionally to the W140s of the same vintage, is bad wiring. However, mine
> has all been replaced as has the ETA.
> >
> > As for the diagnostics, they’re actually pretty good for this vintage
> model, and for that matter, the same on all other MBs of the same vintage,
> so there’s nothing unique as far as the V8 W124 over any other model
> produced at or around the same time.
> >
> > I’m not ready to toss in the towel.  It’s narrowed down now so it’s just
> a matter of being able to zero in on the affected part and have at it
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Dan
> >
>
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Re: [MBZ] Today's 400E Fun/Confusion

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I have the same diagnostic system the dealer has. It’s unlikely the dealer has 
anyone capable of working on this car at the level required.

I have a third (yes, third) generation MB independent nearby that would be my 
go-to for this if I was to start asking for help at that level.  They’ve 
forgotten more than the dealer ever knew.

-D


> On Feb 25, 2018, at 3:22 PM, Andrew Strasfogel  wrote:
> 
> If beyond this point you are still stuck, would you consider having a dealer 
> to perform an advanced diagnostic test?
> 
> On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 2:40 PM, Dan--- via Mercedes  > wrote:
> Thanks, Karl, PM sent.
> 
> The typical culprits for these cars, which are nearly identical functionally 
> to the W140s of the same vintage, is bad wiring. However, mine has all been 
> replaced as has the ETA.
> 
> As for the diagnostics, they’re actually pretty good for this vintage model, 
> and for that matter, the same on all other MBs of the same vintage, so 
> there’s nothing unique as far as the V8 W124 over any other model produced at 
> or around the same time.
> 
> I’m not ready to toss in the towel.  It’s narrowed down now so it’s just a 
> matter of being able to zero in on the affected part and have at it
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Dan
> 

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Re: [MBZ] Today's 400E Fun/Confusion

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

If beyond this point you are still stuck, would you consider having a
dealer to perform an advanced diagnostic test?

On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 2:40 PM, Dan--- via Mercedes 
wrote:

> Thanks, Karl, PM sent.
>
> The typical culprits for these cars, which are nearly identical
> functionally to the W140s of the same vintage, is bad wiring. However, mine
> has all been replaced as has the ETA.
>
> As for the diagnostics, they’re actually pretty good for this vintage
> model, and for that matter, the same on all other MBs of the same vintage,
> so there’s nothing unique as far as the V8 W124 over any other model
> produced at or around the same time.
>
> I’m not ready to toss in the towel.  It’s narrowed down now so it’s just a
> matter of being able to zero in on the affected part and have at it
>
> Thanks!
>
> Dan
>
> > On Feb 25, 2018, at 1:52 PM, Karl W  wrote:
> >
> > When I bought the 1994 E420, it went into limp mode. Straight off the
> trailer! I took it to Herbert, my cranky German mechanic, who took one look
> and said why did you buy this piece of s***? I said I thought you liked
> w124 cars? He said yes, but not the V8! Ended up needing wiring harness
> upper and throttle body.
> >
> > I think switching out the computer modules is standard diagnostic
> practice if you know the harnesses and throttle body are good. I have
> backups for all of them in a box. They come up on the 500e board a lot. A
> guy named Jeff Wong aka captruff will buy w124s and part them out, usually
> wagons, 400 or 500e. Gsxr and others also.
> >
> > Herbert did say that one half of the ignition will routinely die willy
> nilly and that the diagnostics are terrible. I guess that comports with
> your findings thusfar.
> >
> > I can send you whatever modules I have.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Feb 25, 2018 10:17 AM, "Dan Penoff via Mercedes" <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >> So my confusion continues:
> >>
> >> 1993 400E (W124.034)
> >>
> >> Complaint:  In limp home mode, ASR light is lit at all times.  Engine
> has high idle (1200-1300 rpm) and surges with no load.  When loaded (in
> gear or driving) engine is smooth and performance is good.  Engine
> harnesses, both upper and lower, have been replaced.  ETA has been replaced
> with a Mercedes factory unit.  Accelerator cable and linkage are adjusted
> to spec.
> >>
> >> Diagnostics:
> >>
> >> Analog (LED) tester and blinks:
> >>
> >> LH - OK
> >> CC/ISC - 2
> >> ABS/ASR - 30
> >> BM - OK
> >> EZL - OK
> >>
> >> With the SDS I got:
> >>
> >> LH - OK
> >> EZ1 - 017 - Crankshaft position sensor L5 (current fault, could b a
> “phantom” fault according to the WIS)
> >> EFP/TPM/ISC - 014 - Control module EFP N4/1 (stored)
> >> GM - OK
> >> ASR - 030 - CAN: No reception from EFP N/1
> >>
> >> I can’t find anything in the WIS for a code 014 for the E-GAS (EFP)
> module.
> >>
> >> Is it possible I have a bad E-GAS module?  I have one on hand with a
> different number, however, it came from a car without ASR if that matters.
> I know that that number 2 for the CC/ISC is a real laundry list of stuff
> and is not terribly conclusive with the analog tester.
> >>
> >> Close inspection shows the diagnostic connector to be clean and
> intact.  Wires in the box are good as well and show no indication of damage
> or wear.
> >>
> >> I’m befuddled.
> >>
> >> -D
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> http://www.okiebenz.com
> >>
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> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> >> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> >>
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Re: [MBZ] Today's 400E Fun/Confusion

[Dan--- via Mercedes]

Thanks, Karl, PM sent.

The typical culprits for these cars, which are nearly identical functionally to 
the W140s of the same vintage, is bad wiring. However, mine has all been 
replaced as has the ETA.

As for the diagnostics, they’re actually pretty good for this vintage model, 
and for that matter, the same on all other MBs of the same vintage, so there’s 
nothing unique as far as the V8 W124 over any other model produced at or around 
the same time.

I’m not ready to toss in the towel.  It’s narrowed down now so it’s just a 
matter of being able to zero in on the affected part and have at it

Thanks!

Dan

> On Feb 25, 2018, at 1:52 PM, Karl W  wrote:
> 
> When I bought the 1994 E420, it went into limp mode. Straight off the 
> trailer! I took it to Herbert, my cranky German mechanic, who took one look 
> and said why did you buy this piece of s***? I said I thought you liked w124 
> cars? He said yes, but not the V8! Ended up needing wiring harness upper and 
> throttle body.
> 
> I think switching out the computer modules is standard diagnostic practice if 
> you know the harnesses and throttle body are good. I have backups for all of 
> them in a box. They come up on the 500e board a lot. A guy named Jeff Wong 
> aka captruff will buy w124s and part them out, usually wagons, 400 or 500e. 
> Gsxr and others also.
> 
> Herbert did say that one half of the ignition will routinely die willy nilly 
> and that the diagnostics are terrible. I guess that comports with your 
> findings thusfar.
> 
> I can send you whatever modules I have.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Feb 25, 2018 10:17 AM, "Dan Penoff via Mercedes"  
>> wrote:
>> So my confusion continues:
>> 
>> 1993 400E (W124.034)
>> 
>> Complaint:  In limp home mode, ASR light is lit at all times.  Engine has 
>> high idle (1200-1300 rpm) and surges with no load.  When loaded (in gear or 
>> driving) engine is smooth and performance is good.  Engine harnesses, both 
>> upper and lower, have been replaced.  ETA has been replaced with a Mercedes 
>> factory unit.  Accelerator cable and linkage are adjusted to spec.
>> 
>> Diagnostics:
>> 
>> Analog (LED) tester and blinks:
>> 
>> LH - OK
>> CC/ISC - 2
>> ABS/ASR - 30
>> BM - OK
>> EZL - OK
>> 
>> With the SDS I got:
>> 
>> LH - OK
>> EZ1 - 017 - Crankshaft position sensor L5 (current fault, could b a 
>> “phantom” fault according to the WIS)
>> EFP/TPM/ISC - 014 - Control module EFP N4/1 (stored)
>> GM - OK
>> ASR - 030 - CAN: No reception from EFP N/1
>> 
>> I can’t find anything in the WIS for a code 014 for the E-GAS (EFP) module.
>> 
>> Is it possible I have a bad E-GAS module?  I have one on hand with a 
>> different number, however, it came from a car without ASR if that matters. I 
>> know that that number 2 for the CC/ISC is a real laundry list of stuff and 
>> is not terribly conclusive with the analog tester.
>> 
>> Close inspection shows the diagnostic connector to be clean and intact.  
>> Wires in the box are good as well and show no indication of damage or wear.
>> 
>> I’m befuddled.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Today's 400E Fun/Confusion

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

So my confusion continues:

1993 400E (W124.034)

Complaint:  In limp home mode, ASR light is lit at all times.  Engine has high 
idle (1200-1300 rpm) and surges with no load.  When loaded (in gear or driving) 
engine is smooth and performance is good.  Engine harnesses, both upper and 
lower, have been replaced.  ETA has been replaced with a Mercedes factory unit. 
 Accelerator cable and linkage are adjusted to spec.

Diagnostics:

Analog (LED) tester and blinks:

LH - OK
CC/ISC - 2
ABS/ASR - 30
BM - OK
EZL - OK

With the SDS I got:

LH - OK
EZ1 - 017 - Crankshaft position sensor L5 (current fault, could b a “phantom” 
fault according to the WIS)
EFP/TPM/ISC - 014 - Control module EFP N4/1 (stored)
GM - OK
ASR - 030 - CAN: No reception from EFP N/1

I can’t find anything in the WIS for a code 014 for the E-GAS (EFP) module.

Is it possible I have a bad E-GAS module?  I have one on hand with a different 
number, however, it came from a car without ASR if that matters. I know that 
that number 2 for the CC/ISC is a real laundry list of stuff and is not 
terribly conclusive with the analog tester.

Close inspection shows the diagnostic connector to be clean and intact.  Wires 
in the box are good as well and show no indication of damage or wear.

I’m befuddled.

-D



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Re: [MBZ] Today's 400E Fun

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Put the shelf battery in the car.  Couldn’t tell a difference, but system 
voltage is running at about 14.5 VDC, which is a good thing.

Drove it a bit now that it’s legal.  If it’s in LHM I could barely tell, as it 
had no problem accelerating and shifts were at the proper rpm/speed.

Still idling high and surging at no load.  ASR light is on still, too.

Ran my C3 on it and got all kinds of weirdness.  Communications failures, weird 
faults that don’t resurface despite not clearing anything, etc.  I’m wondering 
if I’ve got something going on in the diagnostic connector, as the C3 worked 
fine on the R129 and W210 wagon, so I know it’s not goofy.  There have been 
reports by other 400E and 500E owners about issues with corrosion in the 
diagnostic connector and all sorts of havoc it can wreak.

Got the O2 sensor replaced.  Wow, was that a pig.  Thank goodness for three 
days of Kroil soaking….

Tomorrow I’m going to work on getting the lower body cladding back on with the 
new clips I’ve got.  Not sure I have enough, but more are on their way.

-D




> On Feb 24, 2018, at 8:53 PM, Dwight Giles  wrote:
> 
> Sounds like progress Dan. I wouldxsay to rule outvthe battery first. I 
> was,taught to always,look for the,simplest issue first.
> 
> Dwight Giles Jr.
> Wickford RI
> 
> On Feb 24, 2018 3:20 PM, "Dan Penoff via Mercedes"  > wrote:
> Started out adjusting the trunk snubbers I put on the other night so you 
> don’t have to slam the trunk lid to get it to latch.  Works nice now.
> 
> Adjusted the throttle linkage per spec to make sure all of that was in order.
> 
> Put a new mast on the antenna, although I’m a bit befuddled about the 
> antenna.  As long as it’s hooked up to the radio, it’s up regardless of what 
> the radio is doing or if the key or radio is on or not.  The only thing that 
> makes it retract is if you disconnect it at the radio, not the antenna.  
> Weird.  If anyone has any insight into what this might be, I’m all ears.
> 
> Ran a scan with the HHT emulator in the C3 and found the same codes, nothing 
> new.  Noticed something that might be important, however.  After running 
> several tests I started to lose connectivity with the various modules.  I 
> checked battery voltage and it was below 12V.  Hmm.  The battery that’s in 
> the car has full cells, but it’s marked as a “second” with no other 
> identifying markings.  No manufacturer, date, nothing.
> 
> I keep a spare Group 49 MB battery on the tender at all times, so I took it 
> off the tender and put the charger to it.  Within a couple of minutes it was 
> above 14V.  I’m going to drop it in later today and see what happens.  This 
> could be interesting, as so many things in these cars can go haywire with low 
> voltage.  If the battery is kaput it could be dragging the alternator down as 
> well.
> 
> Got the @#$% O2 sensor out.  Guess three days of Kroil soaking did the job.  
> That and a ratchet with a three foot cheater bar on it.  I dropped the 
> exhaust as far as I could by pulling all of the “O” rubbers off and let it 
> sit on a jackstand so it wouldn’t stress the pipes upstream.  That gave me a 
> lot more clearance to get at the sensor, not to mention I had a six point 
> socket that I could get on it with enough clearance to get a ratchet on.
> 
> Break time now and after I’m done I’ll go out and put the new O2 sensor in 
> and drop in the spare battery.
> 
> Wouldn’t it be a hoot if the only problem the car had was a bum battery?  I 
> would be pleased.
> 
> -D
> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] Today's 400E Fun

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

Sounds like progress Dan. I wouldxsay to rule outvthe battery first. I
was,taught to always,look for the,simplest issue first.

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Feb 24, 2018 3:20 PM, "Dan Penoff via Mercedes" 
wrote:

> Started out adjusting the trunk snubbers I put on the other night so you
> don’t have to slam the trunk lid to get it to latch.  Works nice now.
>
> Adjusted the throttle linkage per spec to make sure all of that was in
> order.
>
> Put a new mast on the antenna, although I’m a bit befuddled about the
> antenna.  As long as it’s hooked up to the radio, it’s up regardless of
> what the radio is doing or if the key or radio is on or not.  The only
> thing that makes it retract is if you disconnect it at the radio, not the
> antenna.  Weird.  If anyone has any insight into what this might be, I’m
> all ears.
>
> Ran a scan with the HHT emulator in the C3 and found the same codes,
> nothing new.  Noticed something that might be important, however.  After
> running several tests I started to lose connectivity with the various
> modules.  I checked battery voltage and it was below 12V.  Hmm.  The
> battery that’s in the car has full cells, but it’s marked as a “second”
> with no other identifying markings.  No manufacturer, date, nothing.
>
> I keep a spare Group 49 MB battery on the tender at all times, so I took
> it off the tender and put the charger to it.  Within a couple of minutes it
> was above 14V.  I’m going to drop it in later today and see what happens.
> This could be interesting, as so many things in these cars can go haywire
> with low voltage.  If the battery is kaput it could be dragging the
> alternator down as well.
>
> Got the @#$% O2 sensor out.  Guess three days of Kroil soaking did the
> job.  That and a ratchet with a three foot cheater bar on it.  I dropped
> the exhaust as far as I could by pulling all of the “O” rubbers off and let
> it sit on a jackstand so it wouldn’t stress the pipes upstream.  That gave
> me a lot more clearance to get at the sensor, not to mention I had a six
> point socket that I could get on it with enough clearance to get a ratchet
> on.
>
> Break time now and after I’m done I’ll go out and put the new O2 sensor in
> and drop in the spare battery.
>
> Wouldn’t it be a hoot if the only problem the car had was a bum battery?
> I would be pleased.
>
> -D
>
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>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] Today's 400E Fun

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

This sounds like quite an advanced project or, as my Greek-heritage math
prof would have said, "thees ees non treevial".

On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 3:20 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Started out adjusting the trunk snubbers I put on the other night so you
> don’t have to slam the trunk lid to get it to latch.  Works nice now.
>
> Adjusted the throttle linkage per spec to make sure all of that was in
> order.
>
> Put a new mast on the antenna, although I’m a bit befuddled about the
> antenna.  As long as it’s hooked up to the radio, it’s up regardless of
> what the radio is doing or if the key or radio is on or not.  The only
> thing that makes it retract is if you disconnect it at the radio, not the
> antenna.  Weird.  If anyone has any insight into what this might be, I’m
> all ears.
>
> Ran a scan with the HHT emulator in the C3 and found the same codes,
> nothing new.  Noticed something that might be important, however.  After
> running several tests I started to lose connectivity with the various
> modules.  I checked battery voltage and it was below 12V.  Hmm.  The
> battery that’s in the car has full cells, but it’s marked as a “second”
> with no other identifying markings.  No manufacturer, date, nothing.
>
> I keep a spare Group 49 MB battery on the tender at all times, so I took
> it off the tender and put the charger to it.  Within a couple of minutes it
> was above 14V.  I’m going to drop it in later today and see what happens.
> This could be interesting, as so many things in these cars can go haywire
> with low voltage.  If the battery is kaput it could be dragging the
> alternator down as well.
>
> Got the @#$% O2 sensor out.  Guess three days of Kroil soaking did the
> job.  That and a ratchet with a three foot cheater bar on it.  I dropped
> the exhaust as far as I could by pulling all of the “O” rubbers off and let
> it sit on a jackstand so it wouldn’t stress the pipes upstream.  That gave
> me a lot more clearance to get at the sensor, not to mention I had a six
> point socket that I could get on it with enough clearance to get a ratchet
> on.
>
> Break time now and after I’m done I’ll go out and put the new O2 sensor in
> and drop in the spare battery.
>
> Wouldn’t it be a hoot if the only problem the car had was a bum battery?
> I would be pleased.
>
> -D
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
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[MBZ] Today's 400E Fun

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Started out adjusting the trunk snubbers I put on the other night so you don’t 
have to slam the trunk lid to get it to latch.  Works nice now.

Adjusted the throttle linkage per spec to make sure all of that was in order.

Put a new mast on the antenna, although I’m a bit befuddled about the antenna.  
As long as it’s hooked up to the radio, it’s up regardless of what the radio is 
doing or if the key or radio is on or not.  The only thing that makes it 
retract is if you disconnect it at the radio, not the antenna.  Weird.  If 
anyone has any insight into what this might be, I’m all ears.

Ran a scan with the HHT emulator in the C3 and found the same codes, nothing 
new.  Noticed something that might be important, however.  After running 
several tests I started to lose connectivity with the various modules.  I 
checked battery voltage and it was below 12V.  Hmm.  The battery that’s in the 
car has full cells, but it’s marked as a “second” with no other identifying 
markings.  No manufacturer, date, nothing.

I keep a spare Group 49 MB battery on the tender at all times, so I took it off 
the tender and put the charger to it.  Within a couple of minutes it was above 
14V.  I’m going to drop it in later today and see what happens.  This could be 
interesting, as so many things in these cars can go haywire with low voltage.  
If the battery is kaput it could be dragging the alternator down as well.

Got the @#$% O2 sensor out.  Guess three days of Kroil soaking did the job.  
That and a ratchet with a three foot cheater bar on it.  I dropped the exhaust 
as far as I could by pulling all of the “O” rubbers off and let it sit on a 
jackstand so it wouldn’t stress the pipes upstream.  That gave me a lot more 
clearance to get at the sensor, not to mention I had a six point socket that I 
could get on it with enough clearance to get a ratchet on.

Break time now and after I’m done I’ll go out and put the new O2 sensor in and 
drop in the spare battery.

Wouldn’t it be a hoot if the only problem the car had was a bum battery?  I 
would be pleased.

-D
 
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[MBZ] Today's 400E Fun!

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Fun with O2 sensors and wheel sensors…..

http://penoff.com/400E_Blog/400E_Blog.html

-D


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Re: [MBZ] Today's 400E Fun

[Dwight Giles via Mercedes]

Thanks Dan  sounds like tomorrow  will be Martha report

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Feb 13, 2018 9:14 PM, "Dan Penoff via Mercedes" 
wrote:

> Got home from work and ran the car into the garage.  Pulled the carpets
> and shampooed them.  Pulled the back seat lower cushion.  No bundles of
> $50s as I always hope.  For that matter, no mints, Cheetos or change,
> either.  Dang it!  Opened the hood and started in there. Took the air
> cleaner off and found the mounts gone, which is typical. The seal for the
> MAF is hard as a rock as they usually are. Power steering pump reservoir
> knob is missing and replaced with a nut.  Throttle cable is hosed at the
> adjustment nut where it threads into the bracket.  Oil filler cap is
> cracked.  Vacuum elbow to fuel regulator is cracked.  One of the breather
> hoses on top of the engine is disconnected, but all of the hoses are
> amazingly supple, so they must have been replaced.
>
> I had a spare steering wheel and airbag from youngest son’s S500 which I
> transplanted into the car to replace the trashed steering wheel that was on
> the car.  I could have sworn that I had one with burl on it, but it might
> have been in the S420 that got totaled.  No matter, it’s much nicer now.  I
> took advantage of having the wheel off and cleaned the turn signal and
> cruise control switches.  I was going to pull the instrument cluster as
> well, but that would have taken me down a rabbit hole I didn’t have time
> for.
>
> Ran a full set of diagnostics with the C3 system and found the following:
>
> ASR: 030 CAN: No reception from EFP N4/1
>
> LH1: 022 Oxygen sensor heater G3/2 -//-, (two opposite “L”s laying down
> with their tops pointing at each other, if that makes sense)
>
> EFP: 009 Control module EFP N4/1
> 014 Control Module EFP N4/1
> 051 Idle speed safety contact M16/1s2
>
> GM: 006 A/C compressor clutch blocked A9
> 009 Voltage supply N3/1 -//-
> 010 Fuse F2 or control unit 16/1
> 017 Voltage supply module box blower motor M2/2 -//-
>
> I know most of these but not all, so I’ll have to do some research.  I
> cleared all of the faults and will drive the car tomorrow before scanning
> it again to see what pops up.  Realize that some of these faults could be
> years old and resolved a long time ago, but never cleared.
>
> The radio was pissed after I powered back up and is now showing an “E 2”
> error, whatever that is.  More research.
>
> The fuzzy spacer that’s between the seat bottom and console on the
> driver’s seat is AWOL, so I need to figure that one out.  I found the piece
> in the trunk, and it’s definitely broke.  Looks like the seat has to come
> out to replace it.  Ugh.
>
> No lighting in the ACC panel, so all of those bulbs have to be replaced.
> I’m ordering a full set of copper fuses as well as a bunch of strip fuses,
> as my fuse inventory seems to have been depleted.  I have all the vacuum
> lines and air cleaner mounts, as I keep that stuff on hand since it’s
> common to so many models.  I sorted those on the spot.  Gotta order all of
> the rest of the stuff.
>
> Tomorrow should be hot and sunny, so I’m planning on slathering it with
> Leatherique and letting the interior bake all day.  Might pull the cluster
> tomorrow after work and see what I need to resurrect the odometer.
>
> -D
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Today's 400E Fun

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

Lots to do! You might need a whole week before the car is flip-ready.

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 9:13 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Got home from work and ran the car into the garage.  Pulled the carpets
> and shampooed them.  Pulled the back seat lower cushion.  No bundles of
> $50s as I always hope.  For that matter, no mints, Cheetos or change,
> either.  Dang it!  Opened the hood and started in there. Took the air
> cleaner off and found the mounts gone, which is typical. The seal for the
> MAF is hard as a rock as they usually are. Power steering pump reservoir
> knob is missing and replaced with a nut.  Throttle cable is hosed at the
> adjustment nut where it threads into the bracket.  Oil filler cap is
> cracked.  Vacuum elbow to fuel regulator is cracked.  One of the breather
> hoses on top of the engine is disconnected, but all of the hoses are
> amazingly supple, so they must have been replaced.
>
> I had a spare steering wheel and airbag from youngest son’s S500 which I
> transplanted into the car to replace the trashed steering wheel that was on
> the car.  I could have sworn that I had one with burl on it, but it might
> have been in the S420 that got totaled.  No matter, it’s much nicer now.  I
> took advantage of having the wheel off and cleaned the turn signal and
> cruise control switches.  I was going to pull the instrument cluster as
> well, but that would have taken me down a rabbit hole I didn’t have time
> for.
>
> Ran a full set of diagnostics with the C3 system and found the following:
>
> ASR: 030 CAN: No reception from EFP N4/1
>
> LH1: 022 Oxygen sensor heater G3/2 -//-, (two opposite “L”s laying down
> with their tops pointing at each other, if that makes sense)
>
> EFP: 009 Control module EFP N4/1
> 014 Control Module EFP N4/1
> 051 Idle speed safety contact M16/1s2
>
> GM: 006 A/C compressor clutch blocked A9
> 009 Voltage supply N3/1 -//-
> 010 Fuse F2 or control unit 16/1
> 017 Voltage supply module box blower motor M2/2 -//-
>
> I know most of these but not all, so I’ll have to do some research.  I
> cleared all of the faults and will drive the car tomorrow before scanning
> it again to see what pops up.  Realize that some of these faults could be
> years old and resolved a long time ago, but never cleared.
>
> The radio was pissed after I powered back up and is now showing an “E 2”
> error, whatever that is.  More research.
>
> The fuzzy spacer that’s between the seat bottom and console on the
> driver’s seat is AWOL, so I need to figure that one out.  I found the piece
> in the trunk, and it’s definitely broke.  Looks like the seat has to come
> out to replace it.  Ugh.
>
> No lighting in the ACC panel, so all of those bulbs have to be replaced.
> I’m ordering a full set of copper fuses as well as a bunch of strip fuses,
> as my fuse inventory seems to have been depleted.  I have all the vacuum
> lines and air cleaner mounts, as I keep that stuff on hand since it’s
> common to so many models.  I sorted those on the spot.  Gotta order all of
> the rest of the stuff.
>
> Tomorrow should be hot and sunny, so I’m planning on slathering it with
> Leatherique and letting the interior bake all day.  Might pull the cluster
> tomorrow after work and see what I need to resurrect the odometer.
>
> -D
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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[MBZ] Today's 400E Fun

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Got home from work and ran the car into the garage.  Pulled the carpets and 
shampooed them.  Pulled the back seat lower cushion.  No bundles of $50s as I 
always hope.  For that matter, no mints, Cheetos or change, either.  Dang it!  
Opened the hood and started in there. Took the air cleaner off and found the 
mounts gone, which is typical. The seal for the MAF is hard as a rock as they 
usually are. Power steering pump reservoir knob is missing and replaced with a 
nut.  Throttle cable is hosed at the adjustment nut where it threads into the 
bracket.  Oil filler cap is cracked.  Vacuum elbow to fuel regulator is 
cracked.  One of the breather hoses on top of the engine is disconnected, but 
all of the hoses are amazingly supple, so they must have been replaced.

I had a spare steering wheel and airbag from youngest son’s S500 which I 
transplanted into the car to replace the trashed steering wheel that was on the 
car.  I could have sworn that I had one with burl on it, but it might have been 
in the S420 that got totaled.  No matter, it’s much nicer now.  I took 
advantage of having the wheel off and cleaned the turn signal and cruise 
control switches.  I was going to pull the instrument cluster as well, but that 
would have taken me down a rabbit hole I didn’t have time for.

Ran a full set of diagnostics with the C3 system and found the following:

ASR: 030 CAN: No reception from EFP N4/1

LH1: 022 Oxygen sensor heater G3/2 -//-, (two opposite “L”s laying down with 
their tops pointing at each other, if that makes sense)

EFP: 009 Control module EFP N4/1
014 Control Module EFP N4/1
051 Idle speed safety contact M16/1s2

GM: 006 A/C compressor clutch blocked A9
009 Voltage supply N3/1 -//-
010 Fuse F2 or control unit 16/1
017 Voltage supply module box blower motor M2/2 -//-

I know most of these but not all, so I’ll have to do some research.  I cleared 
all of the faults and will drive the car tomorrow before scanning it again to 
see what pops up.  Realize that some of these faults could be years old and 
resolved a long time ago, but never cleared.

The radio was pissed after I powered back up and is now showing an “E 2” error, 
whatever that is.  More research.

The fuzzy spacer that’s between the seat bottom and console on the driver’s 
seat is AWOL, so I need to figure that one out.  I found the piece in the 
trunk, and it’s definitely broke.  Looks like the seat has to come out to 
replace it.  Ugh.

No lighting in the ACC panel, so all of those bulbs have to be replaced.  I’m 
ordering a full set of copper fuses as well as a bunch of strip fuses, as my 
fuse inventory seems to have been depleted.  I have all the vacuum lines and 
air cleaner mounts, as I keep that stuff on hand since it’s common to so many 
models.  I sorted those on the spot.  Gotta order all of the rest of the stuff.

Tomorrow should be hot and sunny, so I’m planning on slathering it with 
Leatherique and letting the interior bake all day.  Might pull the cluster 
tomorrow after work and see what I need to resurrect the odometer.

-D
___
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