Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD Wagon

2015-07-24 Thread Max Dillon via Mercedes
Location of this car?  Mobile website surfing stinks.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300
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Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD Wagon

2015-07-24 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
I believe it was in Daytona Beach, FL.

Dan


 On Jul 24, 2015, at 12:42 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 wrote:
 
 Location of this car?  Mobile website surfing stinks.
 -- 
 Max Dillon
 Charleston SC
 '87 300TD
 '95 E300
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Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD Wagon

2015-07-24 Thread Max Dillon via Mercedes
Thanks Dan, pix look like FL.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On July 24, 2015 12:48:17 PM EDT, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
I believe it was in Daytona Beach, FL.

Dan


 On Jul 24, 2015, at 12:42 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 Location of this car?  Mobile website surfing stinks.
 -- 
 Max Dillon
 Charleston SC
 '87 300TD
 '95 E300
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Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD Wagon

2015-07-24 Thread Max Dillon via Mercedes
I think you guys are confirmed bottom-feeders, struggling to justify why the 
old adage about a cheap Mercedes is wrong.

Assuming the seller is not lying, a low mile and rust free diesel wagon that is 
not rough should easily be worth twice what they go for all the time.  
Local market will drive the price.

If I were shopping for another wagon, I'd be all over that.
-- 
Max Dillon (who paid too much for his wagon)
Charleston SC
'87 300TD 
'95 E300
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Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD Wagon

2015-07-24 Thread Mitch Haley via Mercedes


 On July 24, 2015 at 10:16 AM Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 
 His is about a $3500 car

Spending a ton of money bringing a car up to snuff does not raise its market
value a corresponding amount, 
but it does make the car a much better deal at $3500 than a $2500 car that still
needs all that stuff done 
to it. 

Mitch. 

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Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD Wagon

2015-07-24 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
A common line of thinking on Craigslist.  “I just put an exorbitant amount of 
money into this car so now it’s worth that and more.”

Never seems to work out, either.

Dan


 On Jul 24, 2015, at 3:20 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 wrote:
 
 Spending a ton of money bringing a car up to snuff does not raise its market
 value a corresponding amount, 
 but it does make the car a much better deal at $3500 than a $2500 car that 
 still
 needs all that stuff done 
 to it. 
 
 Mitch. 
 
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Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD Wagon

2015-07-24 Thread Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes
Exactly. Otherwise it would be a 2-2.5k car like you say. Maybe even less. 124 
diesels are almost free these days around here. There was a decent 87 300d on 
cl a couple months ago that would not start after a filter change. Somebody 
bought it as I saw it in the last couple of weeks, runs and drives now. Price 
was $1900. Several weeks later it is now $900 and the ad is still up so I 
assume he has not sold it. I have a rough 87TD with a #17 head I but on cl for 
$1500 to see if there would be any action and I have got no bites.

Sent from my iPhone

 On Jul 24, 2015, at 2:20 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 wrote:
 
 
 
 On July 24, 2015 at 10:16 AM Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 
 His is about a $3500 car
 
 Spending a ton of money bringing a car up to snuff does not raise its market
 value a corresponding amount, 
 but it does make the car a much better deal at $3500 than a $2500 car that 
 still
 needs all that stuff done 
 to it. 
 
 Mitch. 
 
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Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices

2008-02-14 Thread Kaleb C. Striplin
They are WAY overpriced.  Better off just buying a 300TE instead and 
saving alot of cash.

carbucks wrote:
 Hi,
 
 While I've been happy with my 85 and 83 300SDs, they don't suit our 
 lifestyle with the dog. Been researching the 87 300td. Looking for some 
 list wisdom on fair market value for one in good to excellent condition. 
 Here's what I've discovered so far.
 
 NADA ranges from $3950 to $8600
 Original MSRP: $42,500
 
   Low Retail 
 http://www.nadaguides.com/usedcars.aspx?LI=1-21-1-5013-0-0-0l=1w=21p=1f=5014y=1987m=1115d=6215c=20vi=10197z=98001da=1#
  
   Average Retail Value 
 http://www.nadaguides.com/usedcars.aspx?LI=1-21-1-5013-0-0-0l=1w=21p=1f=5014y=1987m=1115d=6215c=20vi=10197z=98001da=1#
  
   High Retail 
 http://www.nadaguides.com/usedcars.aspx?LI=1-21-1-5013-0-0-0l=1w=21p=1f=5014y=1987m=1115d=6215c=20vi=10197z=98001da=1#
  
 
 Base Price$3,950  $5,150  $8,600
 TOTAL PRICE   $3,950  $5,150 
 http://www.nadaguides.com/LinkTracker.aspx?itemid=50361LI=1-21-1-5014-708-745-50361l=1w=21p=20f=5605xq=price-5150*
  
   $8,600
 
 
 Ebay Buy Now prices are currently in the $10 000 range.
 
 Autotrader and cars.com listed prices range from $7000 to $13500
 
 Martin
 
 
  
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-- 
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
  94 E420, 92 300SD, 92 300D, 92 250D Turbo, 92 300E 4Matic,
  91 300D, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 89 260E, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro,
  84 190D, 84 300D euro manny, 81 240D, 81 380SLC, 80 240D, 76 240D,
  76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250
http://www.okiebenz.com

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Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices

2008-02-14 Thread Mitch Haley
carbucks wrote:
 
 Sounds like you got a lemon. Sold both my 2000 Jetta TDI and 2004 Golf
 TDI after a couple of years of ownership and no maintenance hassle for
 just slightly below what I paid for them new (exempting taxes).

That's exactly my problem with them. Asking prices for 3-4 year old
cars with 80-100k on them look like what I might be willing to pay
for a new car.

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Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices

2008-02-13 Thread John Robbins
carbucks wrote:
 While I've been happy with my 85 and 83 300SDs, they don't suit our 
 lifestyle with the dog. Been researching the 87 300td. Looking for some 
 list wisdom on fair market value for one in good to excellent condition. 
 Here's what I've discovered so far.

There were less than 2000 of those cars imported, and the wagon style is 
very sought after... so prices are all over the place.  One in *nice* 
condition in Washington state will fetch 10k.  Most ones in good 
condition seem to go for 5-7k (outside of WA).  Most people on this list 
are known for being on the 'thrifty' side, and they probably wouldn't 
buy one at those crazy eBay prices.

FWIW, I bought one in fair condition on the AL coast for $3200.  I've 
since bought $2k worth of parts I'm slowly putting in.

http://starquake.ath.cx/mercedes/300TD/images/

John


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Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices

2008-02-13 Thread John Robbins
carbucks wrote:
 So paying $10k for a twenty plus year old car that only gets about half 
 the fuel mileage of a five year old Jetta does not add up. Factor in 
 rising fuel costs as well as the higher costs to maintain the Benz and 
 the arithmetic is even less in favor of the Benz.

Do you do your own work or do you have a mechanic do most of it?  Old 
Mercedes are a very good value if you do all or a lot of the work 
yourself, but they get expensive real quick if you have a mechanic take 
care of everything.  There are a LOT of little things that can go wrong 
on these cars, and if you want everything to work perfectly you are 
absolutely correct that the older MB will cost more to maintain.  That 
being the case, there is still something to be said about the quality 
and drivability of an MB over a VW!

If you would like to find out more about the VWs check out TDI Club. 
There is a very large following of those TDIs, and there is quite a bit 
of good information there as well.

www.tdiclub.com


HTH!
John


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Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices

2008-02-13 Thread dave walton
You might want to figure in to your equation that you can get early
90's E320 gas wagons in pristine condition for ~$2k. They will have
all wheel drive too. They take premium.

-Dave Walton

On Feb 13, 2008 2:16 PM, carbucks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Thanks, John. Nice looking TD.

 Fuel is the other cost I'm factoring in. According to
 http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/3565.shtml the 300td will get up
 to 25 mpg and for 15000 annual miles @ $3/gal cost you $2239 per year.

 For a few thousand more, I can pick up a Jetta Wagon TDI  ($mid-teens)
 which according to
 http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2008car1tablef.jsp?id=19905 gets up to 42
 mpg and costs $1407 per year.

 So paying $10k for a twenty plus year old car that only gets about half
 the fuel mileage of a five year old Jetta does not add up. Factor in
 rising fuel costs as well as the higher costs to maintain the Benz and
 the arithmetic is even less in favor of the Benz.

 Unless, of course, I can find one like yours. :-)

 Martin


 John Robbins wrote:
  carbucks wrote:
 
  While I've been happy with my 85 and 83 300SDs, they don't suit our
  lifestyle with the dog. Been researching the 87 300td. Looking for some
  list wisdom on fair market value for one in good to excellent condition.
  Here's what I've discovered so far.
 
 
  There were less than 2000 of those cars imported, and the wagon style is
  very sought after... so prices are all over the place.  One in *nice*
  condition in Washington state will fetch 10k.  Most ones in good
  condition seem to go for 5-7k (outside of WA).  Most people on this list
  are known for being on the 'thrifty' side, and they probably wouldn't
  buy one at those crazy eBay prices.
 
  FWIW, I bought one in fair condition on the AL coast for $3200.  I've
  since bought $2k worth of parts I'm slowly putting in.
 
  http://starquake.ath.cx/mercedes/300TD/images/
 
  John
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices

2008-02-13 Thread carbucks
Thanks, John. Nice looking TD.

Fuel is the other cost I'm factoring in. According to 
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/3565.shtml the 300td will get up 
to 25 mpg and for 15000 annual miles @ $3/gal cost you $2239 per year.

For a few thousand more, I can pick up a Jetta Wagon TDI  ($mid-teens) 
which according to 
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2008car1tablef.jsp?id=19905 gets up to 42 
mpg and costs $1407 per year.

So paying $10k for a twenty plus year old car that only gets about half 
the fuel mileage of a five year old Jetta does not add up. Factor in 
rising fuel costs as well as the higher costs to maintain the Benz and 
the arithmetic is even less in favor of the Benz.

Unless, of course, I can find one like yours. :-)

Martin

John Robbins wrote:
 carbucks wrote:
   
 While I've been happy with my 85 and 83 300SDs, they don't suit our 
 lifestyle with the dog. Been researching the 87 300td. Looking for some 
 list wisdom on fair market value for one in good to excellent condition. 
 Here's what I've discovered so far.
 

 There were less than 2000 of those cars imported, and the wagon style is 
 very sought after... so prices are all over the place.  One in *nice* 
 condition in Washington state will fetch 10k.  Most ones in good 
 condition seem to go for 5-7k (outside of WA).  Most people on this list 
 are known for being on the 'thrifty' side, and they probably wouldn't 
 buy one at those crazy eBay prices.

 FWIW, I bought one in fair condition on the AL coast for $3200.  I've 
 since bought $2k worth of parts I'm slowly putting in.

 http://starquake.ath.cx/mercedes/300TD/images/

 John


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Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices

2008-02-13 Thread R A Bennell
There is also a Passat wagon which would be a bit bigger than the Jetta.

Randy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of dave walton
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 1:45 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices


I changed a transmission on a 2001 Jetta TDI. It was the job from
hell. I much prefer working on Mercedes. You need a computer just to
check the transmission fluid level.
The VW's are very light and tinny in my opinion. Although with 6 air
bags they might have a safety advantage depending on the
circumstances.

-Dave Walton

On Feb 13, 2008 2:40 PM, carbucks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I do my own. Have two 300SDs. What I'm finding is they are taking up
 more and more of my time.

 I've had both VWs and Mercedes as well as BMWs. They share a number of
 qualities. The VWs are less expensive to maintain and very few get close
 to their mpg.

 Martin


 John Robbins wrote:
  Do you do your own work or do you have a mechanic do most of it?  Old
  Mercedes are a very good value if you do all or a lot of the work
  yourself, but they get expensive real quick if you have a mechanic take
  care of everything.  There are a LOT of little things that can go wrong
  on these cars, and if you want everything to work perfectly you are
  absolutely correct that the older MB will cost more to maintain.  That
  being the case, there is still something to be said about the quality
  and drivability of an MB over a VW!
 
  If you would like to find out more about the VWs check out TDI Club.
  There is a very large following of those TDIs, and there is quite a bit
  of good information there as well.
 
  www.tdiclub.com
 
 
  HTH!
  John
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices

2008-02-13 Thread dave walton
I changed a transmission on a 2001 Jetta TDI. It was the job from
hell. I much prefer working on Mercedes. You need a computer just to
check the transmission fluid level.
The VW's are very light and tinny in my opinion. Although with 6 air
bags they might have a safety advantage depending on the
circumstances.

-Dave Walton

On Feb 13, 2008 2:40 PM, carbucks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I do my own. Have two 300SDs. What I'm finding is they are taking up
 more and more of my time.

 I've had both VWs and Mercedes as well as BMWs. They share a number of
 qualities. The VWs are less expensive to maintain and very few get close
 to their mpg.

 Martin


 John Robbins wrote:
  Do you do your own work or do you have a mechanic do most of it?  Old
  Mercedes are a very good value if you do all or a lot of the work
  yourself, but they get expensive real quick if you have a mechanic take
  care of everything.  There are a LOT of little things that can go wrong
  on these cars, and if you want everything to work perfectly you are
  absolutely correct that the older MB will cost more to maintain.  That
  being the case, there is still something to be said about the quality
  and drivability of an MB over a VW!
 
  If you would like to find out more about the VWs check out TDI Club.
  There is a very large following of those TDIs, and there is quite a bit
  of good information there as well.
 
  www.tdiclub.com
 
 
  HTH!
  John
 
 
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  For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
  For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
  http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 


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Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices

2008-02-13 Thread Alex Chamberlain
On Feb 13, 2008 11:33 AM, carbucks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Good point. They get similar fuel mileage to the older diesels and have
 better performance. The 300SDs are fine on the highway, but have trouble
 keeping up with some city traffic.


Martin, have you driven an early-'90s diesel Jetta wagon?  Based on my
experience with a 2001 New Beetle TDI I'd say the opposite would be
true of them, for what it's worth---they are great city cars with
plenty of zip right off the line (mostly due to the
variable-displacement turbo, I think), but run out of steam fast on
the highway.  Also, as John R. pointed out, the driveability and feel
are quite different.  I would much rather take my W124 on a long trip
than any VW---the seats are better and road noise is less despite
20-year-old door seals!

Alex Chamberlain
'87 300D Turbo et al.

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Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices

2008-02-13 Thread carbucks
Good point. They get similar fuel mileage to the older diesels and have 
better performance. The 300SDs are fine on the highway, but have trouble 
keeping up with some city traffic.

Martin

dave walton wrote:
 You might want to figure in to your equation that you can get early
 90's E320 gas wagons in pristine condition for ~$2k. They will have
 all wheel drive too. They take premium.

 -Dave Walton

 On Feb 13, 2008 2:16 PM, carbucks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
 Thanks, John. Nice looking TD.

 Fuel is the other cost I'm factoring in. According to
 http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/3565.shtml the 300td will get up
 to 25 mpg and for 15000 annual miles @ $3/gal cost you $2239 per year.

 For a few thousand more, I can pick up a Jetta Wagon TDI  ($mid-teens)
 which according to
 http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2008car1tablef.jsp?id=19905 gets up to 42
 mpg and costs $1407 per year.

 So paying $10k for a twenty plus year old car that only gets about half
 the fuel mileage of a five year old Jetta does not add up. Factor in
 rising fuel costs as well as the higher costs to maintain the Benz and
 the arithmetic is even less in favor of the Benz.

 Unless, of course, I can find one like yours. :-)

 Martin


 John Robbins wrote:
 
 carbucks wrote:

   
 While I've been happy with my 85 and 83 300SDs, they don't suit our
 lifestyle with the dog. Been researching the 87 300td. Looking for some
 list wisdom on fair market value for one in good to excellent condition.
 Here's what I've discovered so far.

 
 There were less than 2000 of those cars imported, and the wagon style is
 very sought after... so prices are all over the place.  One in *nice*
 condition in Washington state will fetch 10k.  Most ones in good
 condition seem to go for 5-7k (outside of WA).  Most people on this list
 are known for being on the 'thrifty' side, and they probably wouldn't
 buy one at those crazy eBay prices.

 FWIW, I bought one in fair condition on the AL coast for $3200.  I've
 since bought $2k worth of parts I'm slowly putting in.

 http://starquake.ath.cx/mercedes/300TD/images/

 John


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Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices

2008-02-13 Thread carbucks
I do my own. Have two 300SDs. What I'm finding is they are taking up 
more and more of my time.

I've had both VWs and Mercedes as well as BMWs. They share a number of 
qualities. The VWs are less expensive to maintain and very few get close 
to their mpg.

Martin

John Robbins wrote:
 Do you do your own work or do you have a mechanic do most of it?  Old 
 Mercedes are a very good value if you do all or a lot of the work 
 yourself, but they get expensive real quick if you have a mechanic take 
 care of everything.  There are a LOT of little things that can go wrong 
 on these cars, and if you want everything to work perfectly you are 
 absolutely correct that the older MB will cost more to maintain.  That 
 being the case, there is still something to be said about the quality 
 and drivability of an MB over a VW!

 If you would like to find out more about the VWs check out TDI Club. 
 There is a very large following of those TDIs, and there is quite a bit 
 of good information there as well.

 www.tdiclub.com


 HTH!
 John


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Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices

2008-02-13 Thread Alex Chamberlain
On Feb 13, 2008 11:45 AM, dave walton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I changed a transmission on a 2001 Jetta TDI. It was the job from
 hell.

Wouldn't that be true of any kind of drivetrain work on a
front-wheel-drive car, though?  Everything's all jammed up together
under the hood, after all, not nicely spread out front-to-back as it
should be.  What was especially bad about the VW?  (I ask never having
done or even contemplated any serious repair job on a FWD car, other
than my old Saab 900's which are quite a different beast than the
typical transverse-four-with-transaxle arrangement.)

Alex Chamberlain
'87 300D Turbo et al.

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Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices

2008-02-13 Thread dave walton
Lack of space. I finally found a use for those stubby drivers that
have been sitting in my toolbox unused.
The 4Matic MB has much more space, but it is just bigger all around.

-Dave Walton

On Feb 13, 2008 3:01 PM, Alex Chamberlain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Feb 13, 2008 11:45 AM, dave walton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I changed a transmission on a 2001 Jetta TDI. It was the job from
  hell.

 Wouldn't that be true of any kind of drivetrain work on a
 front-wheel-drive car, though?  Everything's all jammed up together
 under the hood, after all, not nicely spread out front-to-back as it
 should be.  What was especially bad about the VW?  (I ask never having
 done or even contemplated any serious repair job on a FWD car, other
 than my old Saab 900's which are quite a different beast than the
 typical transverse-four-with-transaxle arrangement.)

 Alex Chamberlain
 '87 300D Turbo et al.

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Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices

2008-02-13 Thread Zeitgeist
Price a set of rear SLS legs, or #22 head, or evaporator RR for the S124.
My '96 Passat tdi was a rock-solid reliable, economical and fun to drive
car.  Much cheaper to keep than my Mercedes--damn, my Vanagon is even a
helluva lot cheaper to run than the TD.  I think I keep the Merc for purely
sentimental reasons, at this point.

On Feb 13, 2008 12:33 PM, Allan Streib [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 carbucks [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  So paying $10k for a twenty plus year old car that only gets about
  half the fuel mileage of a five year old Jetta does not add
  up. Factor in rising fuel costs as well as the higher costs to
  maintain the Benz and the arithmetic is even less in favor of the
  Benz.

 The Jetta will not hold up like the Benz though  Price a new Jetta
 injection pump.

 Allan
 --
 1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices

2008-02-13 Thread Allan Streib
carbucks [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 So paying $10k for a twenty plus year old car that only gets about
 half the fuel mileage of a five year old Jetta does not add
 up. Factor in rising fuel costs as well as the higher costs to
 maintain the Benz and the arithmetic is even less in favor of the
 Benz.

The Jetta will not hold up like the Benz though  Price a new Jetta
injection pump.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices

2008-02-13 Thread Allan Streib
Zeitgeist [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Price a set of rear SLS legs, or #22 head, or evaporator RR for the
 S124.  My '96 Passat tdi was a rock-solid reliable, economical and
 fun to drive car.  Much cheaper to keep than my Mercedes--damn, my
 Vanagon is even a helluva lot cheaper to run than the TD.  I think I
 keep the Merc for purely sentimental reasons, at this point.

Maybe the later models are more expensive... My W123 is hands-down the
cheapest car I've ever owned, in cost-of-ownership terms.  I do most
of my own work and buy the parts from Rusty though.  I recently bought
a Vanagon too, and I like it, but its engineering is cheap and
amateurish compared to the W123 -- or even compared to my former W110.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices

2008-02-13 Thread Kevin
On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 04:08:45PM -0500, Allan Streib wrote:
 Zeitgeist [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
  Price a set of rear SLS legs, or #22 head, or evaporator RR for the
  S124.  My '96 Passat tdi was a rock-solid reliable, economical and
  fun to drive car.  Much cheaper to keep than my Mercedes--damn, my
  Vanagon is even a helluva lot cheaper to run than the TD.  I think I
  keep the Merc for purely sentimental reasons, at this point.
 
 Maybe the later models are more expensive... My W123 is hands-down the
 cheapest car I've ever owned, in cost-of-ownership terms.  I do most
 of my own work and buy the parts from Rusty though.  I recently bought
 a Vanagon too, and I like it, but its engineering is cheap and
 amateurish compared to the W123 -- or even compared to my former W110.

Having W123, W124, W201, and an A2 jetta, the jetta blows them all away in
terms of how cheap it is to keep on the road. The W123 was a neglected car,
so it's probably not a fair comparison. The W124 and S124 were far FAR more
expensive than them all.

No doubt, the mercedes is a better put together car, but you pay the price
for it.

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Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices

2008-02-13 Thread Allan Streib
Kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Having W123, W124, W201, and an A2 jetta, the jetta blows them all
 away in terms of how cheap it is to keep on the road. The W123 was a
 neglected car, so it's probably not a fair comparison. The W124 and
 S124 were far FAR more expensive than them all.

I had an A2 Jetta as well, and agree it was pretty cheap as far as
repairs and maintenance go, but I bought it new at about 4 times what
I paid for my 300D, and I financed it.  So that killed the cost of
ownership numbers for me.  I'm pretty sure a 20 year old Jetta would
have cost me more than my W123 to own, they just are not built to last
that long.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices

2008-02-13 Thread carbucks
Hi Alex,

I've had both a 2000 Jetta TDI and a 2004 Golf TDI . Much preferred the 
Golf. Bought it new in the east (cheaper there) and drove it across the 
country. In 2004 they got a bump in horsepower. That engine has about 
the same amount of torque as the VR6.

My wife drove it 200 km a day five days a week and found it to be far 
more comfortable than either of my 300SDs. Plus with the five speed, you 
could out accelerate most vehicles away from the stop light. She still 
misses it.

Martin
Two 300SDs
Missing the TDIs more and more as I write about this

Alex Chamberlain wrote:
 On Feb 13, 2008 11:33 AM, carbucks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
 Good point. They get similar fuel mileage to the older diesels and have
 better performance. The 300SDs are fine on the highway, but have trouble
 keeping up with some city traffic.

 

 Martin, have you driven an early-'90s diesel Jetta wagon?  Based on my
 experience with a 2001 New Beetle TDI I'd say the opposite would be
 true of them, for what it's worth---they are great city cars with
 plenty of zip right off the line (mostly due to the
 variable-displacement turbo, I think), but run out of steam fast on
 the highway.  Also, as John R. pointed out, the driveability and feel
 are quite different.  I would much rather take my W124 on a long trip
 than any VW---the seats are better and road noise is less despite
 20-year-old door seals!

 Alex Chamberlain
 '87 300D Turbo et al.

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Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices

2008-02-13 Thread Kevin
Another possibility, depending on where you live, is to get one with some 
rust. The rust drops the value of the car GREATLY, and if you're in an area
where a rusty car won't really get worse, it's fine for a driver. My 85 190D
was such a car, and was really a bargain for what it was. What got expensive
on that car was rebuilding the suspension on it when it got close to 200k
miles, followed by a busted ball joint in the front. Granted, I did most of
the work myself, but there were a LOT of parts I had to replace on it while
doing the job. It was a five speed, so it was worth the time and money, or so
I told myself.

I do still have the two 87s, one D that got sideswiped and one rusty TD that
needs a head/head gasket, that I've been toying with letting go, but unless
you're somewhat near Sacramento, CA, the logistics might be a little screwy.
And no, I'm not letting them go for $500 for the pair (or even $500 each),
so all you bottomfeeders out there, don't try. ;)

On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 11:16:42AM -0800, carbucks wrote:
 So paying $10k for a twenty plus year old car that only gets about half 
 the fuel mileage of a five year old Jetta does not add up. Factor in 
 rising fuel costs as well as the higher costs to maintain the Benz and 
 the arithmetic is even less in favor of the Benz.
 
 Unless, of course, I can find one like yours. :-)

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Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices

2008-02-13 Thread carbucks
That's why I'm looking at a Jetta wagon TDI that's a few years old. The 
largest part of the depreciation is gone and it will be good for another 
ten years or so. By that time I'll have saved enough on fuel (over the 
Benz) to buy another one.

I have an '82 Jetta that I bought brand new. At 300k+ the body and 
original engine are still good, though I had to replace the head at 80K 
because I burned the valves following the idiot upshift light (remember 
those?) . However, it was the electrics that consigned it to a moldering 
death in my yard. The electrics did get better in 83. I have an 83 Jetta 
Turbo diesel that still going strong.

Martin

Allan Streib wrote:
 Kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

   
 Having W123, W124, W201, and an A2 jetta, the jetta blows them all
 away in terms of how cheap it is to keep on the road. The W123 was a
 neglected car, so it's probably not a fair comparison. The W124 and
 S124 were far FAR more expensive than them all.
 

 I had an A2 Jetta as well, and agree it was pretty cheap as far as
 repairs and maintenance go, but I bought it new at about 4 times what
 I paid for my 300D, and I financed it.  So that killed the cost of
 ownership numbers for me.  I'm pretty sure a 20 year old Jetta would
 have cost me more than my W123 to own, they just are not built to last
 that long.

 Allan
   
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Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices

2008-02-13 Thread Alex Chamberlain
On Feb 13, 2008 3:05 PM, carbucks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I've had both a 2000 Jetta TDI and a 2004 Golf TDI . Much preferred the
 Golf. Bought it new in the east (cheaper there) and drove it across the
 country. In 2004 they got a bump in horsepower. That engine has about
 the same amount of torque as the VR6.

 My wife drove it 200 km a day five days a week and found it to be far
 more comfortable than either of my 300SDs.

Well, I suppose comfort is a matter of taste... but I've found
Mercedes seats to be more comfortable than any other car's by far,
when in good shape (springs not sprung and padding not compressed).
The problem is that you have to maintain them, like the rest of the
car, and most people don't.  VW-type seats, on the other hand (foam
over a stiff metal bucket) are comfortable until the foam collapses,
and then feel like a church pew---at which point they are basically
not fixable unless the entire seat is rebuilt from scratch by a
competent upholsterer.

Alex Chamberlain
'87 300D Turbo et al.

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Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices

2008-02-13 Thread carbucks
Yes, I've been looking at those as well. Harder to find and much more 
expensive -- twice the price of the 87 300TDs. The extra room and 
horsepower may be worth it, however.

Martin

R A Bennell wrote:
 There is also a Passat wagon which would be a bit bigger than the Jetta.

 Randy

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of dave walton
 Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 1:45 PM
 To: Mercedes Discussion List
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices


 I changed a transmission on a 2001 Jetta TDI. It was the job from
 hell. I much prefer working on Mercedes. You need a computer just to
 check the transmission fluid level.
 The VW's are very light and tinny in my opinion. Although with 6 air
 bags they might have a safety advantage depending on the
 circumstances.

 -Dave Walton

 On Feb 13, 2008 2:40 PM, carbucks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
 I do my own. Have two 300SDs. What I'm finding is they are taking up
 more and more of my time.

 I've had both VWs and Mercedes as well as BMWs. They share a number of
 qualities. The VWs are less expensive to maintain and very few get close
 to their mpg.

 Martin


 John Robbins wrote:
 
 Do you do your own work or do you have a mechanic do most of it?  Old
 Mercedes are a very good value if you do all or a lot of the work
 yourself, but they get expensive real quick if you have a mechanic take
 care of everything.  There are a LOT of little things that can go wrong
 on these cars, and if you want everything to work perfectly you are
 absolutely correct that the older MB will cost more to maintain.  That
 being the case, there is still something to be said about the quality
 and drivability of an MB over a VW!

 If you would like to find out more about the VWs check out TDI Club.
 There is a very large following of those TDIs, and there is quite a bit
 of good information there as well.

 www.tdiclub.com


 HTH!
 John


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Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices

2008-02-13 Thread David Bruckmann
Yes, the Golf/Jetta TDI gets good fuel economy BUT you'll realise that a 20-y/o 
MB is a BARGAIN the first time you pay $100 for a set of front brake pads for 
the VW, or when you replace the $300 MAF sensor for the 3rd or 4th time, or 
when it needs yet ANOTHER window lifter, or when it won't start because the 
intake manifold is clogged with soot, or when you get the bill from the 
chiropractor b/c the seats are HORRIBLE, or when the rear brake pads wear out 
AGAIN after only 20k miles, or when the coolant level sensor seal fails and 
coolant is pumped into your wiring harness destroying your entire electrical 
system, etc etc.

Idiotically, I gave up my 1979 300TD for a new 2002 Golf TDI. It took me about 
a week to start hating it, and almost two years to ditch it -- for a 1984 300TD.

D.

On Feb 13, 2008 2:16 PM, carbucks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Thanks, John. Nice looking TD.

 Fuel is the other cost I'm factoring in. According to
 http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/3565.shtml the 300td will get up
 to 25 mpg and for 15000 annual miles @ $3/gal cost you $2239 per year.

 For a few thousand more, I can pick up a Jetta Wagon TDI  ($mid-teens)
 which according to
 http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2008car1tablef.jsp?id=19905 gets up to 42
 mpg and costs $1407 per year.

 So paying $10k for a twenty plus year old car that only gets about half
 the fuel mileage of a five year old Jetta does not add up. Factor in
 rising fuel costs as well as the higher costs to maintain the Benz and
 the arithmetic is even less in favor of the Benz.

 Unless, of course, I can find one like yours. :-)

 Martin

-- 
David Bruckmann, Palo Alto, CA
Current Reality:
1970 Citroen DS21 Pallas (170,000 km) Goettin
1972 Mercedes-Benz 280 SEL 4.5 (150,000 km) Blauer Engel
1976 Citroen 2CV6 (145,000 km) Piaf  http://dolly.bruckmann.com/
1979 Mercedes-Benz 300D (390,000 km) Brown Betty
Shady Past:
1971 Citroen DS21 Pallas (137,000km), 1972 Citroen DS21 Pallas (502,000km)
1978 Mercedes-Benz 300D (1,200,000 km or thereabouts) Sieglinde
1979 Mercedes-Benz 300TD non-turbo (260,000 km)  Diva
1981 Citroen 2CV6 Charleston (120,000km), 1988 Merkur XR4Ti (209,000km)
1981 Peugeot 505 GRD (350,000km), 1984 MB 300TD (385,000 km) Gertraud
1985 Toyota Camry The Slamry (330,000km) 1986 Renault 9 1.7L (155,000 km)
2002 VW Golf GLS TDI The Hated Golf (74,000 km)

--

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Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices

2008-02-13 Thread carbucks
Sounds like you got a lemon. Sold both my 2000 Jetta TDI and 2004 Golf 
TDI after a couple of years of ownership and no maintenance hassle for 
just slightly below what I paid for them new (exempting taxes).

With my new 2000 Jetta, all maintenance was covered under the warranty. 
With the 2004 Golf, they charged (too much) for oil changes. Now that 
I'm not so busy with work, I'd do those myself. Fortunately, just as 
there are for M-Bs, third party Internet suppliers for VW really save 
you a bundle.

I spend way more time on the 300SDs fiddling with them. The latest is 
the heater hose that the dealer wants $125 for. Fortunately the 
suppliers everyone on this list knows about has it for a small fraction 
of that. Going to have to remove some electronics on the '85 to get at 
that. The air condition compressor on the 83 is squealing. That's not 
going to be a lot of fun. Going to have to upgrade the AC to the newer 
environmental standards.

Thanks to all for the interaction. Really helped clarify my next steps. 
Given the rising cost of fuel and the thousands of miles we put on in a 
month, a car that gets twice the fuel mileage and saves a thousand or 
more dollars a year is the way I have to go.

Anyone interested in purchasing two west coast solid body 300SDs, one an 
83 with a rebuilt engine and the other an 85 (w/ABS brakes)? The next 
question is what should I ask for them?

Martin

David Bruckmann wrote:
 Yes, the Golf/Jetta TDI gets good fuel economy BUT you'll realise that a 
 20-y/o MB is a BARGAIN the first time you pay $100 for a set of front brake 
 pads for the VW, or when you replace the $300 MAF sensor for the 3rd or 4th 
 time, or when it needs yet ANOTHER window lifter, or when it won't start 
 because the intake manifold is clogged with soot, or when you get the bill 
 from the chiropractor b/c the seats are HORRIBLE, or when the rear brake pads 
 wear out AGAIN after only 20k miles, or when the coolant level sensor seal 
 fails and coolant is pumped into your wiring harness destroying your entire 
 electrical system, etc etc.

 Idiotically, I gave up my 1979 300TD for a new 2002 Golf TDI. It took me 
 about a week to start hating it, and almost two years to ditch it -- for a 
 1984 300TD.

 D.

   
 On Feb 13, 2008 2:16 PM, carbucks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Thanks, John. Nice looking TD.

 Fuel is the other cost I'm factoring in. According to
 http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/3565.shtml the 300td will get up
 to 25 mpg and for 15000 annual miles @ $3/gal cost you $2239 per year.

 For a few thousand more, I can pick up a Jetta Wagon TDI  ($mid-teens)
 which according to
 http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2008car1tablef.jsp?id=19905 gets up to 42
 mpg and costs $1407 per year.

 So paying $10k for a twenty plus year old car that only gets about half
 the fuel mileage of a five year old Jetta does not add up. Factor in
 rising fuel costs as well as the higher costs to maintain the Benz and
 the arithmetic is even less in favor of the Benz.

 Unless, of course, I can find one like yours. :-)

 Martin
   

   
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Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices

2008-02-13 Thread Curt Raymond

I've never ridden in a Jetta older than 4 years old.
I've never ridden in a Jetta that was bought used.
I've never ridden in a Jetta with working A/C.

That A/C in my 190D worked until the charge leaked out and I decided I liked 
having the money more than I liked having A/C.

-Curt

Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 13:19:34 -0800
From: Kevin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
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On Wed, Feb 13, 2008 at 04:08:45PM -0500, Allan Streib wrote:
 Zeitgeist [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
  Price a set of rear SLS legs, or #22 head, or evaporator RR for
 the
  S124.  My '96 Passat tdi was a rock-solid reliable, economical and
  fun to drive car.  Much cheaper to keep than my Mercedes--damn, my
  Vanagon is even a helluva lot cheaper to run than the TD.  I think
 I
  keep the Merc for purely sentimental reasons, at this point.
 
 Maybe the later models are more expensive... My W123 is hands-down
 the
 cheapest car I've ever owned, in cost-of-ownership terms.  I do most
 of my own work and buy the parts from Rusty though.  I recently
 bought
 a Vanagon too, and I like it, but its engineering is cheap and
 amateurish compared to the W123 -- or even compared to my former
 W110.

Having W123, W124, W201, and an A2 jetta, the jetta blows them all away
 in
terms of how cheap it is to keep on the road. The W123 was a neglected
 car,
so it's probably not a fair comparison. The W124 and S124 were far FAR
 more
expensive than them all.

No doubt, the mercedes is a better put together car, but you pay the
 price
for it.

   
-
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Re: [MBZ] 87 300td wagon prices

2008-02-13 Thread Allan Streib
carbucks [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 The air condition compressor on the 83 is squealing. That's not 
 going to be a lot of fun. Going to have to upgrade the AC to the newer 
 environmental standards.

Why?  Keep it R12, if you don't want to spend the money on R12
refrigerant there are compatible substitutes.

If you convert it to R134A you'll be in for more headaches, and poor
cooling to boot.

 Thanks to all for the interaction. Really helped clarify my next
 steps.  Given the rising cost of fuel and the thousands of miles we
 put on in a month, a car that gets twice the fuel mileage and saves
 a thousand or more dollars a year is the way I have to go.

Don't forget to figure in interest on any financing, and insurance.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] 87 300TD Wagon on Ebay a little rouhg, but cheap

2006-04-19 Thread John Berryman


On Apr 18, 2006, at 4:22 PM, Donald Snook wrote:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1987-300TDT-Turbo-Diesel-Station- 
Wagon-w-

3rd-Seat_W0QQitemZ4632547977QQcategoryZ6330QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem





Donald H. Snook




	At almost 300,000mi with damage and bidding at $2025 its already not  
cheap. There are almost 6 days left on this auction.


Johnny B.
I Mac Therefore I am