Re: [MBZ] Bike Rider, Loud Pipes

2006-01-29 Thread Brian Chase
Place two box fans near your head, turn to high speed and call me after a 
good night's sleep. Side effects may include your house being robbed without 
your noticing.


Brian


From: "Dave Wakin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,"Mercedes Discussion List" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike Rider, Loud Pipes
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 10:44:49 -0500

A guy I work with has a neighbor like this - he uses a weedwacker to mow is
front lawn once a week in the summer at around 5:30am. Takes him about 30
minutes, and looks like crap when he is done.

Dave W


> What about the idiot neighbor who insists on running the mower, leaf
> blower, weed whacker, etc at 0600? At least the guy with loud pipes is
> gone in 60 seconds or so, not so this idiot who mows, blows, whacks for
> hours.


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Re: [MBZ] Bike Rider, Loud Pipes

2006-01-29 Thread James Jetton
I use a headlight modulator on my BMW K1200LT.  It flashes the headlight during 
daylight hours.  Couple that with my riding style, which is: Always assume the 
driver can't see you.  We had a driving method taught by my basic motorcycle 
instructor: Think what if.  What if the car next to me comes over in my lane, 
what if the car waiting at the stop sign pulls out, what if every scenario.  
Make it become second nature to plan an escape route.  I find myself using 
those techniques while in the car as well.  I may have strayed off the original 
thread, but felt compelled to add my .02.


James Jetton
1987 300SDL
2002 BMW K1200LT
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Subject: Re: [MBZ] errant buzzer
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Hwo old is your battery? Is this happening only on your first start of the =
day?

On 1/28/06, Marshall Booth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> BillR wrote:
> > A couple of weeks ago my '81 SD started an occasional weak buzzer sound=
 from
> > under the dash.  It was rare and brief at first, and stopped when the
> > blinkers were activated.  It has gotten more frequent and longer lastin=
g,
> > and this morning when I turned the key the left blinker came on and wou=
ld
> > not quit.  A bit of fooling with the turn switch got it to go back to a=
n
> > occasional buzz, but I suspect things need to be dealt with.  I pulled =
the
> > knee panel and determined that it was the left buzzer that was letting =
go.
> > My suspicion is the I am getting a short in the steering column and nee=
d to
> > pull the blinker stalk and check that.  For those familiar with such th=
ings,
> > I could hope it is something that sounds easier.  Any other suggestions=
?  If
> > that is what it needs, how big a job is that?  USAF mechanic son is out=
 of
> > the area for training, and I am hoping it will hold until he is done an=
d
> > back in the area..  Is it something a used to be handyman could tackle =
-
> > keeping in mind that more than minimal exertion is not a possibility fo=
r me.
>
> Try operating the hazard switch half a dozen times and see if thing
> return to normal.
>
> Marshall
> --
>  Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions)
>   "der Dieseling Doktor" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> '87 300TD 182Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5
> turbo 237kmi
>
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Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-28 Thread lee
I'm with you. Whether it be on Harleys, Hondas or pickup trucks, loud pipes 
are just a more abrasive and slightly more mature version of sticking playing 
cards in your bike spokes- it is about making noise to draw attention to 
one's self. It has nothing to do with safety. 

Lee

On Saturday 28 January 2006 11:19, Tom Scordato wrote:
> David Said:
>
>  "Maybe if he'd had louder pipes the truck
> driver would have heard him and sped up? ;)"
>
> AMEN David, AMEN
>
> It is still noise it does not matter if it is 1:00AM or 12 noon.  It is
> disrespectful to your neighbors and fellow citizens.  These guys/(gals too
> oh no please ?)  will always say it is for "safety" because of course
> (mmhhmm) who can argue with that?
>
> I can tell you on the highway when someone is coming up on you the sound
> means nothing because it is facing the wrong way. Specially if my Becker
> Europa AM only radio is on.  Hey I got an idea for more "safety" lets put
> four pipes a set facing forward.  Add some Sirens too and a bull horn like
> on the movie "Kelly's Heroes".  some revolving lights too with strobes.
>
> They talk safety out one side of there mouths and also talk about how they
> like to do 80-, 90, 100 plus mph in some of these vehicles in traffic, heck
> I have seen it with my own eyes.  If you think you need so much safety just
> do not ride. That would be the safest thing!
> Acting like hypocrites.  They got an answer for everything, but the answers
> are not based on logic, scientific fact or more importantly being a kind
> and considerate citizen.
>
> Not enough to go out ride  and enjoy your vehicle with the standard issue
> muffler (put on for a reason and what is that??) we have to make noise so
> everyone can A) suffer, B) look at me riding by. C) I can get a thrill and
> the rest/majority of the folks who dispise it be damned.  Why do you just
> admit you like noise,  and most common folks who  are in the majority do
> not like it.  Remember when the good of the may out weighed the good of the
> few. What happened?
>
> Regards Tom Scordato
>
> - Original Message -----
> From: "David Brodbeck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 1:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes
>
> > OK Don wrote:
> >> we had one just this year - right in town. There was no car involved -
> >> the idiot didn't need any help. Too fast is too fast, regardless of
> >> the noise.
> >
> > One motorcyclist slammed into the back of a boat trailer next to an
> > airport I used to frequent.  The driver of the truck towing the boat had
> > slowed to look at the airplanes.  Unfortunately, the biker was also
> > looking at the airplanes, but hadn't slowed.  He wasn't seriously hurt,
> > fortunately, but his bike was.  Maybe if he'd had louder pipes the truck
> > driver would have heard him and sped up? ;)
> >
> > ___
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> > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
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> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-28 Thread Tom Scordato

David Said:

"Maybe if he'd had louder pipes the truck
driver would have heard him and sped up? ;)"

AMEN David, AMEN

It is still noise it does not matter if it is 1:00AM or 12 noon.  It is 
disrespectful to your neighbors and fellow citizens.  These guys/(gals too 
oh no please ?)  will always say it is for "safety" because of course 
(mmhhmm) who can argue with that?


I can tell you on the highway when someone is coming up on you the sound 
means nothing because it is facing the wrong way. Specially if my Becker 
Europa AM only radio is on.  Hey I got an idea for more "safety" lets put 
four pipes a set facing forward.  Add some Sirens too and a bull horn like 
on the movie "Kelly's Heroes".  some revolving lights too with strobes.


They talk safety out one side of there mouths and also talk about how they 
like to do 80-, 90, 100 plus mph in some of these vehicles in traffic, heck 
I have seen it with my own eyes.  If you think you need so much safety just 
do not ride. That would be the safest thing!
Acting like hypocrites.  They got an answer for everything, but the answers 
are not based on logic, scientific fact or more importantly being a kind and 
considerate citizen.


Not enough to go out ride  and enjoy your vehicle with the standard issue 
muffler (put on for a reason and what is that??) we have to make noise so 
everyone can A) suffer, B) look at me riding by. C) I can get a thrill and 
the rest/majority of the folks who dispise it be damned.  Why do you just 
admit you like noise,  and most common folks who  are in the majority do not 
like it.  Remember when the good of the may out weighed the good of the few. 
What happened?


Regards Tom Scordato

- Original Message - 
From: "David Brodbeck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 1:53 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes



OK Don wrote:

we had one just this year - right in town. There was no car involved -
the idiot didn't need any help. Too fast is too fast, regardless of
the noise.



One motorcyclist slammed into the back of a boat trailer next to an
airport I used to frequent.  The driver of the truck towing the boat had
slowed to look at the airplanes.  Unfortunately, the biker was also
looking at the airplanes, but hadn't slowed.  He wasn't seriously hurt,
fortunately, but his bike was.  Maybe if he'd had louder pipes the truck
driver would have heard him and sped up? ;)

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Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-28 Thread L. Mark Finch

Science says you can have brains OR balls:

http://tinyurl.com/c24fq


On Jan 28, 2006, at 10:19 AM, lee wrote:


On Saturday 28 January 2006 8:02, Peter T. Arnold wrote:
I've seen fellows pull wheelie's at 70MPH on the interstate to  
impress

a pretty girl in a car.  Some will run several hundred feet that way!




That's how nature weeds out the foolish

 "theres old ones, and there's  bold ones, but there's no old, bold  
ones."

It's an adage to remember any time you get on a bike.

Lee



Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-28 Thread lee
On Saturday 28 January 2006 8:02, Peter T. Arnold wrote:
> I've seen fellows pull wheelie's at 70MPH on the interstate to impress
> a pretty girl in a car.  Some will run several hundred feet that way!
>


That's how nature weeds out the foolish

 "theres old ones, and there's  bold ones, but there's no old, bold ones." 
It's an adage to remember any time you get on a bike. 

Lee



Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-28 Thread Peter T . Arnold
On Fri, 27 Jan 2006 22:40:49 +, you wrote:

>What is really dangerous are the speed bikes..the ones that sound like a 
>bumblebee...and will appear out of nowhere and in 3 seconds will be 2 miles 
>in front of you..I have seen these guys weaving in and out of traffic on the 
I've seen fellows pull wheelie's at 70MPH on the interstate to impress
a pretty girl in a car.  Some will run several hundred feet that way!

Having worked 12 years on a volunteer ambulance, I have a morbid
curiosity as to why someone would put themselves to such risk.

Helmets;
Brave fellows wear them, they are able to remain conscious and enjoy
the pain
Cowards go without, simple lights out experience.

Seat Belts;
Similar thoughts here.

Suppose I'm on a jury, complainant is in a wheelchair because a little
old lady didn't see him and she caused an accident.
He was exercising is constitutional rights to not protect himself.
I'm thinking, T/S for you fellow.


Pete, who wears seat belt because i'm old and heal slow



Re: [MBZ] Bike Rider, Loud Pipes

2006-01-28 Thread Bob Rentfro
I think the only good thing about having done 28 years of shift work is that 
those things become transparent.


Bob Rentfro (28 years of 5 week cycle 12 hour rotating shifts...most at the 
old nuke plant)

'77 300D 148K
'01 VW Beetle TDI 61K
Litchfield Park, AZ


- Original Message - 
From: "Alex Chamberlain" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2006 5:51 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike Rider, Loud Pipes



On 1/27/06, John Ervine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

James Jetton wrote:

> What about the idiot neighbor who insists on running the mower, leaf 
> blower, weed whacker, etc at 0600? At least the guy with loud pipes is 
> gone in 60 seconds or so, not so this idiot who mows, blows, whacks for 
> hours.


Yet another problem with society these days - you get so pissed off at 
your
neighbor but you won't go talk to him about it first.  Maybe he doesn't 
realize
he's being a jerk to his neighbors, or maybe his neighbors don't 
understand it's

the only time he has available to take care of his yard.

But nobody knows anything because nobody's talking to the guy who lives 
next door!


Can't speak for anyone else, but I (and everyone else on the block)
have definitely talked to MY idiot leaf-blowing neighbor.  He's just
an insensitive cretin with a serious case of OCD that compels him to
fire up the leaf-blower (AND the mower, AND the power edger, etc.)
every day so as to keep his lawn looking like a putting green.

And then the moron has the gall to plaster his Suburban with "support
our troops" magnets...

Alex Chamberlain
'87 300D Turbo

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Re: [MBZ] Bike Rider, Loud Pipes

2006-01-28 Thread Kris Gilmore

At 08:16 PM 1/27/2006, Lt Don wrote:

   (snip)


I always assume that no one sees me. Even if I make eye contact with the
driver at an intersection, I am not seen.


  (snip)

 Why not wear a blaze orange vest like the deer hunters do?  My wife 
and I wear them on our farm from about Thanksgiving through Christmas 
anytime we are out of doors.  We just leave them on our coats.


 Dave Gilmore, Cameron WV

 In classical Greece and Rome the flight of birds was anxiously 
observed as a means of foretelling the future.








Re: [MBZ] Bike Rider, Loud Pipes

2006-01-28 Thread Alex Chamberlain
On 1/27/06, John Ervine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> James Jetton wrote:
>
> > What about the idiot neighbor who insists on running the mower, leaf 
> > blower, weed whacker, etc at 0600? At least the guy with loud pipes is gone 
> > in 60 seconds or so, not so this idiot who mows, blows, whacks for hours.
>
> Yet another problem with society these days - you get so pissed off at your
> neighbor but you won't go talk to him about it first.  Maybe he doesn't 
> realize
> he's being a jerk to his neighbors, or maybe his neighbors don't understand 
> it's
> the only time he has available to take care of his yard.
>
> But nobody knows anything because nobody's talking to the guy who lives next 
> door!

Can't speak for anyone else, but I (and everyone else on the block)
have definitely talked to MY idiot leaf-blowing neighbor.  He's just
an insensitive cretin with a serious case of OCD that compels him to
fire up the leaf-blower (AND the mower, AND the power edger, etc.)
every day so as to keep his lawn looking like a putting green.

And then the moron has the gall to plaster his Suburban with "support
our troops" magnets...

Alex Chamberlain
'87 300D Turbo



Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-28 Thread David Brodbeck

OK Don wrote:

we had one just this year - right in town. There was no car involved -
the idiot didn't need any help. Too fast is too fast, regardless of
the noise.
  


One motorcyclist slammed into the back of a boat trailer next to an 
airport I used to frequent.  The driver of the truck towing the boat had 
slowed to look at the airplanes.  Unfortunately, the biker was also 
looking at the airplanes, but hadn't slowed.  He wasn't seriously hurt, 
fortunately, but his bike was.  Maybe if he'd had louder pipes the truck 
driver would have heard him and sped up? ;)




Re: [MBZ] Bike Rider, Loud Pipes

2006-01-28 Thread David Brodbeck

James Jetton wrote:

What about the idiot neighbor who insists on running the mower, leaf blower, 
weed whacker, etc at 0600?


They're just as annoying, yup.  But at least they aren't making noise 
just to show how cool they are, like bikers and "boomer" cars.


There are situations where open exhausts are okay, and I understand why 
people like the sound, but they don't belong on public roads.  
Personally, I love the sound of a big aircraft radial cranking up at an 
airshow, but I wouldn't appreciate it quite so much at 1:00 am in a 
residential neighborhood!




Re: [MBZ] Bike Rider, Loud Pipes

2006-01-28 Thread Bob Rentfro

You've described almost every car in my kids high school parking lot...
Bueno whip, vato.


Bob Rentfro


- Original Message - 
From: "Hans Neureiter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 6:20 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike Rider, Loud Pipes



Lets go there:
Black Honda Acura, littl' bitty shaved top of a head visible above the 
seat

back,  24"/90 chrome wheels with the spokes spinning the wrong direction,
fartcan, rear end squatting ( 6KW amp and whoofer in the trunk), Rap CD in
the deck, window glass shattering in thehouses along the quiet 
neighbourhood

street, cool.


On 1/27/06, Tom Scordato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:




Jim I will try to answer

James Jetton may have said "What about the idiot neighbor who insists on
running the mower, leaf blower, weed whacker, etc at 0600? At least the
guy
with loud pipes is gone in 60 seconds or so, not so this idiot who mows,
blows, whacks for hours."

A) people buy the mower, leaf blower, weed whacker, from the shop and
usually do not modify the pipe./exhaust to make it louder (maybe they
should
for "safety")  It is standard issue.  If he is running these tools at off
hours talk to him/her first then if that does not work he should get a
ticket in a civilized neighborhood.

B) Yes the person in the loud vehicle is gone from YOU in 60 seconds but
what about all the other people he is passing and affecting once he 
passes
you, see it should not just be about how it affects me but the other 
folks
too.  By the way some of these vehicles are so loud you can hear for 
miles

so 60 seconds is not always a good time span.

Hope this helps/Tom







- Original Message -
From: "James Jetton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike Rider, Loud Pipes


> What about the idiot neighbor who insists on running the mower, leaf
> blower, weed whacker, etc at 0600? At least the guy with loud pipes is
> gone in 60 seconds or so, not so this idiot who mows, blows, whacks for
> hours.
>
>>Tim C wrote:
>> Wow, I seem to have touched a nerve.
>>
>
>>Noise tends to do that. After a while people get tired of being woken
>>up at night by exhaust noise rattling their windows.
> James S. Jetton
> 1987 300SDL 136k
> ___
> http://www.striplin.net
> For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
>



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--
Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX
'82 300SD, '95 E300D
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Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-28 Thread OK Don
we had one just this year - right in town. There was no car involved -
the idiot didn't need any help. Too fast is too fast, regardless of
the noise.

> I guarantee you at least one fatality on a Harley.
>
> On 1/27/06, Rhonald Angelo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > I had always said, I
> > never knew of a Harley that was in an accident.
>

--
OK Don, KD5NRO
Norman, OK
'90 300D 243K, Rattled
'87 300SDL 290K, Limo Lite, or blue car
'81 240D 173K, Gramps, or yellow car
'78 450SLC 67K, brown car
'97 Ply Grand Voyager 78K Van Go



Re: [MBZ] Bike Rider, Loud Pipes

2006-01-28 Thread Hans Neureiter
Lets go there:
Black Honda Acura, littl' bitty shaved top of a head visible above the seat
back,  24"/90 chrome wheels with the spokes spinning the wrong direction,
fartcan, rear end squatting ( 6KW amp and whoofer in the trunk), Rap CD in
the deck, window glass shattering in thehouses along the quiet neighbourhood
street, cool.


On 1/27/06, Tom Scordato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> Jim I will try to answer
>
> James Jetton may have said "What about the idiot neighbor who insists on
> running the mower, leaf blower, weed whacker, etc at 0600? At least the
> guy
> with loud pipes is gone in 60 seconds or so, not so this idiot who mows,
> blows, whacks for hours."
>
> A) people buy the mower, leaf blower, weed whacker, from the shop and
> usually do not modify the pipe./exhaust to make it louder (maybe they
> should
> for "safety")  It is standard issue.  If he is running these tools at off
> hours talk to him/her first then if that does not work he should get a
> ticket in a civilized neighborhood.
>
> B) Yes the person in the loud vehicle is gone from YOU in 60 seconds but
> what about all the other people he is passing and affecting once he passes
> you, see it should not just be about how it affects me but the other folks
> too.  By the way some of these vehicles are so loud you can hear for miles
> so 60 seconds is not always a good time span.
>
> Hope this helps/Tom
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message -----
> From: "James Jetton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 10:16 AM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike Rider, Loud Pipes
>
>
> > What about the idiot neighbor who insists on running the mower, leaf
> > blower, weed whacker, etc at 0600? At least the guy with loud pipes is
> > gone in 60 seconds or so, not so this idiot who mows, blows, whacks for
> > hours.
> >
> >>Tim C wrote:
> >> Wow, I seem to have touched a nerve.
> >>
> >
> >>Noise tends to do that. After a while people get tired of being woken
> >>up at night by exhaust noise rattling their windows.
> > James S. Jetton
> > 1987 300SDL 136k
> > ___
> > http://www.striplin.net
> > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
> > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
> >
>
>
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--
Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX
'82 300SD, '95 E300D


Re: [MBZ] Bike Rider, Loud Pipes

2006-01-28 Thread LT Don
I can only answer from my own experience.

I ride very defensively (since an idiot t-boned me coming out of a stop sign
in 1976.)

I always assume that no one sees me. Even if I make eye contact with the
driver at an intersection, I am not seen. Here is my formula: car in an area
of danger = reduce speed + left hand on the clutch leve + right hand on the
front brake lever + foot positioned over the rear brake lever.

Please bear in mind that I live in and ride in an area where the average age
of driver is about 85.


--
1977 240D
1983 VW Quantum turbo diesel 5-speed
1972 Honda CB-500K motorcycle

http://www.airamericaradio.com/listen


Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-28 Thread LT Don
Huh?  You are either not a biker or you live in the wrong part of the
country. I know, not too many bikers get killed on I-395. I lived there
myself (Lake Ridge VA).

I offer you bed & breakfast next year on your way to Sturgis. I guarantee
you at least one fatality on a Harley.

On 1/27/06, Rhonald Angelo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I had always said, I
> never knew of a Harley that was in an accident.




--
1977 240D
1983 VW Quantum turbo diesel 5-speed
1972 Honda CB-500K motorcycle

http://www.airamericaradio.com/listen


Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-27 Thread Rhonald Angelo
What is really dangerous are the speed bikes..the ones that sound like a 
bumblebee...and will appear out of nowhere and in 3 seconds will be 2 miles 
in front of you..I have seen these guys weaving in and out of traffic on the 
beltway with inches between them and cars...scary...I had always said, I 
never knew of a Harley that was in an accident..I can always hear them 
coming..I must have missed the original post on this one..I guess if one is 
drving something that is louder than a Harley, he would not been seen until 
it is too late...for me, if I got a bike it would only be a Harley.  An 
almost silent bike in the drivers blind spot is not good.  Sure, at times 
and in places they can be very noisy..but in my experice...most of the guys 
are easy on the thottle in certain areas...


Rhonald
1985 300D
284,000 miles
Washington, DC

Original Message Follows
From: "Tom Scordato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 11:38:36 -0500

"could hear him for about 3/4 of a mile away - he stated that cars"

If that thinking is true let us have every vehicle/truck/car on the roads
have no muffler then we would be really safe and could hear each other
coming.

I had a guy (he looked like a Hun, proally why no one wants to mess with
these guys and question this stuff) in Pennsylvania say the same thing to
me.  "It is for safety".  But with the recent appealed helmet law he did not
wear a helmet.  Yeah he was real concerned about safety!!??

Spade a Spade:  No it is about making noise, a power trip and "saying look
at me" and nothing else. It is certainly not about humility, God forbid.  I
would get out my decibel meter and ticket everyone of the bastards if I were
a cop for disturbing the peace.

By degree I am a Marine/Mechanical Engineer.  On a merchant ship (Navy /
Shore side same way) every piece a machinery we would judge by the level of
sound.  Excessive sound and loud sound were ussually a sign of
trouble/danger.  Most good mechanical types agree optimal design operation
is as quiet as possible.
.   /Tom











- Original Message -
From: "Tim C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes


> Actually, loud pipes let cars (mostly driven by blithering idiots who 
fail

> to see anything smaller than a Suburban) know you're there.  A friend had
> an
> obnoxiously loud bike (he bought it that way, wasn't trying to say "look
> at
> me") could hear him for about 3/4 of a mile away - he stated that cars
> stayed away from him, even moving to the other side of their lane as he
> passed.  I know if I rode a bike, I'd want that kind of situation - not
> being seen usually has disastrous results when you don't have a frame
> around
> you.
>
> T
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Scordato
>> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 3:50 AM
>> To: Mercedes Discussion List
>> Subject: [MBZ] Bike rider
>>
>>
>> Very Neat clip!
>>
>> SOUND OFF
>> A least it is quiet unlike in the US where too many  like the
>> loud bikes.
>> Un like the Europeans,  we suffer more from the "look at me syndrome"
>> Nothing negative opinion wise about riding motorcycles. I
>> think they are
>> neat, always have. But when they are louder than the space
>> shuttle you are
>> now infringing on my freedom.  I asked a local cop about the
>> noise as one
>> drove by, he put it best when he said "simple things amuse
>> simple minds"
>> In my day if you did not have a muffler (or it was loud)
>> regardless of
>> vehicle you got a ticket period end of story.  I cannot pin
>> it down but
>> maybe with the prevailing Nascar/Country music/Rap/It is
>> acceptable to be a
>> Red neck/ crush kill destroy,  mentality in this country in
>> the last 20
>> years it has become a free for all with the vehicle noise.  I
>> would ticket
>> everyone of these vehicles just like I deserve and have
>> gotten tickets when
>> my muffler has gone bad. Tom
>
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Re: [MBZ] Bike Rider, Loud Pipes

2006-01-27 Thread Tom Scordato



Jim I will try to answer

James Jetton may have said "What about the idiot neighbor who insists on 
running the mower, leaf blower, weed whacker, etc at 0600? At least the guy 
with loud pipes is gone in 60 seconds or so, not so this idiot who mows, 
blows, whacks for hours."


A) people buy the mower, leaf blower, weed whacker, from the shop and 
usually do not modify the pipe./exhaust to make it louder (maybe they should 
for "safety")  It is standard issue.  If he is running these tools at off 
hours talk to him/her first then if that does not work he should get a 
ticket in a civilized neighborhood.


B) Yes the person in the loud vehicle is gone from YOU in 60 seconds but 
what about all the other people he is passing and affecting once he passes 
you, see it should not just be about how it affects me but the other folks 
too.  By the way some of these vehicles are so loud you can hear for miles 
so 60 seconds is not always a good time span.


Hope this helps/Tom







- Original Message - 
From: "James Jetton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike Rider, Loud Pipes


What about the idiot neighbor who insists on running the mower, leaf 
blower, weed whacker, etc at 0600? At least the guy with loud pipes is 
gone in 60 seconds or so, not so this idiot who mows, blows, whacks for 
hours.



Tim C wrote:
Wow, I seem to have touched a nerve.




Noise tends to do that. After a while people get tired of being woken
up at night by exhaust noise rattling their windows.

James S. Jetton
1987 300SDL 136k
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Re: [MBZ] Bike Rider, Loud Pipes

2006-01-27 Thread Tim C
I have 2 favorites.  Well, besides the leaf blower, which is particularly
annoying in an apt. situation.  

1)  People tuning up a loud car, blipping it for hours.  Though one time
there was a guy in my old neighborhood trying to tune his bike - oops, here
we go again - it was AWESOME hearing him do test runs down the straight road
just outside the neighborhood.  Glorious inline-4 ri.  I think he
was trying a run or two between various rejetting attempts.

2)  Jacka$$ up the street that thinks his convertible Mustang (that recently
acquired some accident damage - YES!) is so cool, and his stereo cooler.
Nothing like hearing today's pop/rap/"hip hop" bass beat inside my own home
at whatever hour.  And, of course the cops never catch him in time.  Oh
well, maybe they'll catch him and his friends tearing around the
neighborhood on their 4-wheeler.

T

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of James Jetton
> Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 7:17 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike Rider, Loud Pipes
> 
> 
> What about the idiot neighbor who insists on running the 
> mower, leaf blower, weed whacker, etc at 0600? At least the 
> guy with loud pipes is gone in 60 seconds or so, not so this 
> idiot who mows, blows, whacks for hours.
> 
> >Tim C wrote:
> > Wow, I seem to have touched a nerve.
> > 
> 
> >Noise tends to do that. After a while people get tired of being woken
> >up at night by exhaust noise rattling their windows.
> James S. Jetton
> 1987 300SDL 136k
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Re: [MBZ] Bike Rider, Loud Pipes

2006-01-27 Thread Hans Neureiter
This thred is like a cork screw. From a clip of a crazy biker with a death
wish (he got his wish) to loud pipes we wind up fuzzing about annoying
neighbours. The original topic escaped discussion.


> James Jetton wrote:
>
> > What about the idiot neighbor who insists on running the mower, leaf
> blower, weed whacker, etc at 0600? At least the guy with loud pipes is gone
> in 60 seconds or so, not so this idiot who mows, blows, whacks for hours.
>
--
Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX
'82 300SD, '95 E300D


>


Re: [MBZ] Bike Rider, Loud Pipes

2006-01-27 Thread John Ervine

James Jetton wrote:


What about the idiot neighbor who insists on running the mower, leaf blower, 
weed whacker, etc at 0600? At least the guy with loud pipes is gone in 60 
seconds or so, not so this idiot who mows, blows, whacks for hours.


Yet another problem with society these days - you get so pissed off at your 
neighbor but you won't go talk to him about it first.  Maybe he doesn't realize 
he's being a jerk to his neighbors, or maybe his neighbors don't understand it's 
the only time he has available to take care of his yard.


But nobody knows anything because nobody's talking to the guy who lives next 
door!

--
John L. Ervine
1981 240D 4-spd 268+kmi
1980 300TD 170+kmi
1980 300SD 277+kmi
1977 280S 4-spd 80+kmi



Re: [MBZ] Bike Rider, Loud Pipes

2006-01-27 Thread James Jetton
What about the idiot neighbor who insists on running the mower, leaf blower, 
weed whacker, etc at 0600? At least the guy with loud pipes is gone in 60 
seconds or so, not so this idiot who mows, blows, whacks for hours.

>Tim C wrote:
> Wow, I seem to have touched a nerve.
> 

>Noise tends to do that. After a while people get tired of being woken 
>up at night by exhaust noise rattling their windows.
James S. Jetton
1987 300SDL 136k
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A guy I work with has a neighbor like this - he uses a weedwacker to mow is 
front lawn once a week in the summer at around 5:30am. Takes him about 30 
minutes, and looks like crap when he is done.

Dave W


> What about the idiot neighbor who insists on running the mower, leaf 
> blower, weed whacker, etc at 0600? At least the guy with loud pipes is 
> gone in 60 seconds or so, not so this idiot who mows, blows, whacks for 
> hours.




Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-27 Thread Hendrik Riessen
Most/all modern tractors have big mufflers to keep the noise down, the 
problem is that the cabins are very well insulated to keep noise from the 
driveline and towed implements out. No tractor manufacturer is going to sell 
a noisy tractor in this day and age. What's that I can't hear you because my 
hearing has been damaged by that noisy tractor.


Hendrik
with a few thousand hours in relatively quiet tractors, although old Steiger 
tractors have straight exhausts but those days are gone

For those who do not know what a Steiger is:
http://members.lycos.nl/lieuwe84/hpbimg/steigeklopnostealfromtts81.JPG
That's a series 4, the pick of the bunch but had electrical faults
Here is a bit of history about them, I know a bit of topic but interesting 
for those who love machines

http://www.bigtractorpower.com/steiger4wdtractorhistory.htm
http://grantnelson00.tripod.com/steigermfg/id1.html

- Original Message - 
From: "David Brodbeck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 6:39 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes



Hans Neureiter wrote:

You ride down a long and sraight country road. A quarter mile down sits a
farmtractor in a ddrive, ready to pull onto the road. Oncoming is a car. 
As
soon the car goes by, he pulls out. Never payd attention to the bike. 
Crash.
If he would have heard you he might have noticed you (I said 
'noticed',

not seen!)



Most tractors are plenty loud by themselves, having nearly open
exhausts, and will drown out most other sounds, in my experience.  I'm
not sure this is a good example.


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Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-27 Thread David Brodbeck

Hans Neureiter wrote:

You ride down a long and sraight country road. A quarter mile down sits a
farmtractor in a ddrive, ready to pull onto the road. Oncoming is a car. As
soon the car goes by, he pulls out. Never payd attention to the bike. Crash.
If he would have heard you he might have noticed you (I said 'noticed',
not seen!)
  


Most tractors are plenty loud by themselves, having nearly open 
exhausts, and will drown out most other sounds, in my experience.  I'm 
not sure this is a good example.





Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-27 Thread David Brodbeck

Tim C wrote:

Wow, I seem to have touched a nerve.
  


Noise tends to do that.  After a while people get tired of being woken 
up at night by exhaust noise rattling their windows.





Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-27 Thread David Brodbeck

Tom Hargrave wrote:

Reminds me of Atlanta. I've lost count of the times I've been running with
traffic in the bypass @ 90 MPH, with the poluce sitting on the median,
watching. The speed limit is 55. 
  


I remember that from last time I was down there.  The only other place 
I've seen traffic like that is Detroit.  (If you're going less than 80 
mph anywhere near Detroit, cops will pass you.)





Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-27 Thread Robert & Tara Ludwick
Naw, if I'd been driving a 240D he probably would have given me a ticket 
for obstructing traffic :-D




Robert

LT Don wrote:

If you'd been driving a 240D, you would have had a perfectly logical
explanation.

On 1/27/06, Robert & Tara Ludwick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  

No joke on the LA trafic, I drove a bus in that town for a few years,
that was a test of nerves, although I had one friend who was never
bothered by it...he drove a semi in Mexico City for 15 years, LA traffic
was a vacation for him.

at midnight when everyone is doing 85, you'd better too. I was driving
west on I10 at about 1:30 am one time about 25 years ago , driving the
speed limit 55. I got pulled over by the highway patrol and given a
drunk test. After passing with flying colours, the guy told me that he
had pulled my over because the only people driving the speed limit there
at that time of night were drunk! Go figure.

-Robert

Kevin wrote:


On Thu, Jan 26, 2006 at 01:25:17PM -0600, Robert & Tara Ludwick wrote:

  

Houston during rush hour...one of the few places where is it even scary
to drive a semi!



No. LA, saturday night at about midnight. Eastbound on I-10 from I-5 in
the crown victoria, bumper to bumper traffic almost all the way out to
SR-57, GOING 85 MPH.

Don't sneeze, don't change the radio station, don't look at a map, don't
check your mirror, don't even think. Any of these will cause an instant
fifteen car pileup since the SUV behind you is literally a foot behind
  

you.


Seriously more nerveracking than towing a 9000 lb travel trailer down
  

the


hill from tahoe with jersey barriers IN the lane you're trying to drive
  

in,


on both sides of your lane.

K

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--
1977 240D
1983 VW Quantum turbo diesel 5-speed
1972 Honda CB-500K motorcycle

http://www.airamericaradio.com/listen
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Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-27 Thread Tom Hargrave
Reminds me of Atlanta. I've lost count of the times I've been running with
traffic in the bypass @ 90 MPH, with the poluce sitting on the median,
watching. The speed limit is 55. 


Thanks,
Tom Hargrave
256-656-1924
www.kegkits.com

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Robert & Tara Ludwick
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 11:40 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

No joke on the LA trafic, I drove a bus in that town for a few years, that
was a test of nerves, although I had one friend who was never bothered by
it...he drove a semi in Mexico City for 15 years, LA traffic was a vacation
for him.

at midnight when everyone is doing 85, you'd better too. I was driving west
on I10 at about 1:30 am one time about 25 years ago , driving the speed
limit 55. I got pulled over by the highway patrol and given a drunk test.
After passing with flying colours, the guy told me that he had pulled my
over because the only people driving the speed limit there at that time of
night were drunk! Go figure.

-Robert

Kevin wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 26, 2006 at 01:25:17PM -0600, Robert & Tara Ludwick wrote:
>   
>> Houston during rush hour...one of the few places where is it even 
>> scary to drive a semi!
>> 
>
> No. LA, saturday night at about midnight. Eastbound on I-10 from I-5 
> in the crown victoria, bumper to bumper traffic almost all the way out 
> to SR-57, GOING 85 MPH.
>
> Don't sneeze, don't change the radio station, don't look at a map, 
> don't check your mirror, don't even think. Any of these will cause an 
> instant fifteen car pileup since the SUV behind you is literally a foot
behind you.
>
> Seriously more nerveracking than towing a 9000 lb travel trailer down 
> the hill from tahoe with jersey barriers IN the lane you're trying to 
> drive in, on both sides of your lane.
>
> K
>
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>   


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Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-27 Thread LT Don
If you'd been driving a 240D, you would have had a perfectly logical
explanation.

On 1/27/06, Robert & Tara Ludwick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> No joke on the LA trafic, I drove a bus in that town for a few years,
> that was a test of nerves, although I had one friend who was never
> bothered by it...he drove a semi in Mexico City for 15 years, LA traffic
> was a vacation for him.
>
> at midnight when everyone is doing 85, you'd better too. I was driving
> west on I10 at about 1:30 am one time about 25 years ago , driving the
> speed limit 55. I got pulled over by the highway patrol and given a
> drunk test. After passing with flying colours, the guy told me that he
> had pulled my over because the only people driving the speed limit there
> at that time of night were drunk! Go figure.
>
> -Robert
>
> Kevin wrote:
> > On Thu, Jan 26, 2006 at 01:25:17PM -0600, Robert & Tara Ludwick wrote:
> >
> >> Houston during rush hour...one of the few places where is it even scary
> >> to drive a semi!
> >>
> >
> > No. LA, saturday night at about midnight. Eastbound on I-10 from I-5 in
> > the crown victoria, bumper to bumper traffic almost all the way out to
> > SR-57, GOING 85 MPH.
> >
> > Don't sneeze, don't change the radio station, don't look at a map, don't
> > check your mirror, don't even think. Any of these will cause an instant
> > fifteen car pileup since the SUV behind you is literally a foot behind
> you.
> >
> > Seriously more nerveracking than towing a 9000 lb travel trailer down
> the
> > hill from tahoe with jersey barriers IN the lane you're trying to drive
> in,
> > on both sides of your lane.
> >
> > K
> >
> > ___
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> >
> >
>
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--
1977 240D
1983 VW Quantum turbo diesel 5-speed
1972 Honda CB-500K motorcycle

http://www.airamericaradio.com/listen


Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-27 Thread Robert & Tara Ludwick
No joke on the LA trafic, I drove a bus in that town for a few years, 
that was a test of nerves, although I had one friend who was never 
bothered by it...he drove a semi in Mexico City for 15 years, LA traffic 
was a vacation for him.


at midnight when everyone is doing 85, you'd better too. I was driving 
west on I10 at about 1:30 am one time about 25 years ago , driving the 
speed limit 55. I got pulled over by the highway patrol and given a 
drunk test. After passing with flying colours, the guy told me that he 
had pulled my over because the only people driving the speed limit there 
at that time of night were drunk! Go figure.


-Robert

Kevin wrote:

On Thu, Jan 26, 2006 at 01:25:17PM -0600, Robert & Tara Ludwick wrote:
  
Houston during rush hour...one of the few places where is it even scary 
to drive a semi!



No. LA, saturday night at about midnight. Eastbound on I-10 from I-5 in
the crown victoria, bumper to bumper traffic almost all the way out to 
SR-57, GOING 85 MPH.


Don't sneeze, don't change the radio station, don't look at a map, don't
check your mirror, don't even think. Any of these will cause an instant
fifteen car pileup since the SUV behind you is literally a foot behind you.

Seriously more nerveracking than towing a 9000 lb travel trailer down the 
hill from tahoe with jersey barriers IN the lane you're trying to drive in, 
on both sides of your lane.


K

___
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Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-27 Thread Luther Gulseth

daily banter?  Quit lying to yourself!


On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 20:49:35 -0600, LT Don <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

There is traffic. Not the daily banter like banned and, to a certain  
extent,

here. But questions are posed and answers are given. The Linux list, much
like the biodiesel list, is a place to ask questions PRN.

On 1/27/06, Kaleb C. Striplin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


you sure come up with some good ones.  How great is the linux list  
doing?


LT Don wrote:
> Actually, I like BenzBiker much better.
>
> On 1/27/06, Kaleb C. Striplin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>hmmm, will see
>>

--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
  89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D,
  84 250 LWB, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D,
  76 450SEL, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250
http://www.striplin.net

___
http://www.striplin.net
For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net





--
1977 240D
1983 VW Quantum turbo diesel 5-speed
1972 Honda CB-500K motorcycle

http://www.airamericaradio.com/listen
___
http://www.striplin.net
For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net




--
Luther   KB5QHU
Alma, Ark
'83 300SD (230,xxx kmi)
'82 300CD (158,222 kmi)
'90 300E & '82 300D (parts or run?)



Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-27 Thread OK Don
Speaking of a Mercedes motorcycles - these are the closest I could find --

http://www.gizmag.com/go/3628/
http://www.gizmag.com/go/3834/

The life jet is rather interesting ---

On 1/26/06, OK Don <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Only if you find a Mercedes motorcycle!  It might be possible according to:
> http://www.motorcycledaily.com/18nov00motorcyclegps.html
>

--
OK Don, KD5NRO
Norman, OK
'90 300D 243K, Rattled
'87 300SDL 290K, Limo Lite, or blue car
'81 240D 173K, Gramps, or yellow car
'78 450SLC 67K, brown car
'97 Ply Grand Voyager 78K Van Go



Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-27 Thread LT Don
There is traffic. Not the daily banter like banned and, to a certain extent,
here. But questions are posed and answers are given. The Linux list, much
like the biodiesel list, is a place to ask questions PRN.

On 1/27/06, Kaleb C. Striplin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> you sure come up with some good ones.  How great is the linux list doing?
>
> LT Don wrote:
> > Actually, I like BenzBiker much better.
> >
> > On 1/27/06, Kaleb C. Striplin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >>hmmm, will see
> >>
>
> --
> Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
>   89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D,
>   84 250 LWB, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D,
>   76 450SEL, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250
> http://www.striplin.net
>
> ___
> http://www.striplin.net
> For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
>



--
1977 240D
1983 VW Quantum turbo diesel 5-speed
1972 Honda CB-500K motorcycle

http://www.airamericaradio.com/listen


Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-27 Thread Kaleb C. Striplin

you sure come up with some good ones.  How great is the linux list doing?

LT Don wrote:

Actually, I like BenzBiker much better.

On 1/27/06, Kaleb C. Striplin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


hmmm, will see



--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D,
 84 250 LWB, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D,
 76 450SEL, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250
http://www.striplin.net



Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-27 Thread Mitch Haley
OK Don wrote:
> 
> Only if you find a Mercedes motorcycle! 

I saw pics of a Porsche motorcycle in either Cycle or Cycle World
in the 1970's. IIRC, it was a 914 engine, most of the motorcycle
parts were from a BMW.



Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-27 Thread OK Don
Only if you find a Mercedes motorcycle!  It might be possible according to:
http://www.motorcycledaily.com/18nov00motorcyclegps.html

On 1/26/06, LT Don <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Actually, I like BenzBiker much better.
>
> On 1/27/06, Kaleb C. Striplin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >

--
OK Don, KD5NRO
Norman, OK
'90 300D 243K, Rattled
'87 300SDL 290K, Limo Lite, or blue car
'81 240D 173K, Gramps, or yellow car
'78 450SLC 67K, brown car
'97 Ply Grand Voyager 78K Van Go



Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-27 Thread Tim C
I don't know, my selfish ego is holding up a palm with a dollar sign written
on it in your face.

T

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Scordato
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 4:33 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes
> 
> 
> "Are you having fun yet?"
> 
> Tim C, I am loving it, how bout you?  Beats hanging out at 
> pool halls../Tom
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Tim C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 7:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes
> 
> 
> > Are you having fun yet?
> > 
> > T
> > 
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Scordato
> >> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 4:03 PM
> >> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> >> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes
> >> 
> >> 
> >> "car's noises as well as everything else.  I'm sure many are
> >> busy listening to their stereo (or cell phone conversation), 
> >> but I'd say the split of visual vs. auditory for me is more 
> >> like 60-40"
> >> 
> >> Tim C/  (this is not just bikes)
> >> I presume blind people cannot get their driving license in
> >> most states.  I 
> >> presume Deaf people can, so that kind of proves sight is the 
> >> key ingredient 
> >> when it comes to driving.
> >> 
> >> People should not have to suffer because you selfishly think
> >> it is safer. If 
> >> it was confined to the road only and if we had some giant 
> >> sound barrier up 
> >> on every road maybe you have a point.  How do you explain the 
> >> other load non 
> >> bike vehicles what is their reason? We could all do just 
> >> 10mph and that 
> >> would be safer too.  I still claim the safety thing is bull.  
> >> You do it 
> >> because you like the noise.
> >> 
> >> We all got along just fine when people respected others
> >> rights to low noise 
> >> levels.  When I (and thousands of others) am sitting in my 
> >> back yard can 
> >> hear a vehicle be it jack brakes, a pick up, car or bike A 
> >> MILE AWAY  that 
> >> is a problem.  Or when I am trying to talk to my kid in the 
> >> yard and some 
> >> brain surgeon goes by stops at the stop light and revs it up 
> >> (I guess his 
> >> engine is such a hog that it wills stall if he does not why 
> >> else rev it 
> >> up?!) and I can not hear her only the windows rattle... that 
> >> is a problem It 
> >> is being totally inconsiderate.  We all take chances when we 
> >> drive.   We 
> >> should not make others suffer though who are not even on the 
> >> road.  They put 
> >> mufflers on for a reason. That does not mean we pick and 
> >> choice who uses 
> >> them. I thank the good Lord I live up north this limits allot 
> >> of this noise 
> >> to just the summer months Nuff said I guess I may be in the 
> >> minority on this 
> >> but that does not make it right or acceptable.  "in the 
> >> insane world the 
> >> sane man must appear insane.."./ / Tom
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> - Original Message -
> >> From: "Tim C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 1:57 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes
> >> 
> >> 
> >> > Try a little experiment.  Next time a fly is buzzing around
> >> - note how
> >> > you can see it against the walls but you lose it when it
> >> goes across
> >> > dark carpet or the like.  It's a question of relativity 
> - and bikes
> >> > (as I mentioned) are
> >> > losing the advantage of their headlight (which ain't that 
> >> much really) to
> >> > daytime running lights.  So, if everyone was loud, the loud
> >> pipe advantage
> >> > would go away, too.
> >> >
> >> > You also assert that the majority of sensory input when 
> driving is
> >> > si

Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-27 Thread LT Don
Actually, I like BenzBiker much better.

On 1/27/06, Kaleb C. Striplin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> hmmm, will see
>
> LT Don wrote:
>
> > Kaleb:
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]  [and that is NOT a complaint]
> >
> >
> > --
> > 1977 240D
> > 1983 VW Quantum turbo diesel 5-speed
> > 1972 Honda CB-500K motorcycle
> >
> > http://www.airamericaradio.com/listen
> > ___
> > http://www.striplin.net
> > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
> > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
>   89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D,
>   84 250 LWB, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D,
>   76 450SEL, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250
> http://www.striplin.net
>
> ___
> http://www.striplin.net
> For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
>



--
1977 240D
1983 VW Quantum turbo diesel 5-speed
1972 Honda CB-500K motorcycle

http://www.airamericaradio.com/listen


Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-27 Thread Kaleb C. Striplin

hmmm, will see

LT Don wrote:


Kaleb:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]  [and that is NOT a complaint]


--
1977 240D
1983 VW Quantum turbo diesel 5-speed
1972 Honda CB-500K motorcycle

http://www.airamericaradio.com/listen
___
http://www.striplin.net
For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net





--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D,
 84 250 LWB, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D,
 76 450SEL, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250
http://www.striplin.net



Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-27 Thread LT Don
Kaleb:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]  [and that is NOT a complaint]


--
1977 240D
1983 VW Quantum turbo diesel 5-speed
1972 Honda CB-500K motorcycle

http://www.airamericaradio.com/listen


Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-27 Thread Tom Scordato

"Are you having fun yet?"

Tim C, I am loving it, how bout you?  Beats hanging out at pool halls../Tom
- Original Message - 
From: "Tim C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes



Are you having fun yet?

T


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Scordato

Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 4:03 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes


"car's noises as well as everything else.  I'm sure many are 
busy listening to their stereo (or cell phone conversation), 
but I'd say the split of visual vs. auditory for me is more 
like 60-40"


Tim C/  (this is not just bikes)
I presume blind people cannot get their driving license in 
most states.  I 
presume Deaf people can, so that kind of proves sight is the 
key ingredient 
when it comes to driving.


People should not have to suffer because you selfishly think 
it is safer. If 
it was confined to the road only and if we had some giant 
sound barrier up 
on every road maybe you have a point.  How do you explain the 
other load non 
bike vehicles what is their reason? We could all do just 
10mph and that 
would be safer too.  I still claim the safety thing is bull.  
You do it 
because you like the noise.


We all got along just fine when people respected others 
rights to low noise 
levels.  When I (and thousands of others) am sitting in my 
back yard can 
hear a vehicle be it jack brakes, a pick up, car or bike A 
MILE AWAY  that 
is a problem.  Or when I am trying to talk to my kid in the 
yard and some 
brain surgeon goes by stops at the stop light and revs it up 
(I guess his 
engine is such a hog that it wills stall if he does not why 
else rev it 
up?!) and I can not hear her only the windows rattle... that 
is a problem It 
is being totally inconsiderate.  We all take chances when we 
drive.   We 
should not make others suffer though who are not even on the 
road.  They put 
mufflers on for a reason. That does not mean we pick and 
choice who uses 
them. I thank the good Lord I live up north this limits allot 
of this noise 
to just the summer months Nuff said I guess I may be in the 
minority on this 
but that does not make it right or acceptable.  "in the 
insane world the 
sane man must appear insane.."./ / Tom










- Original Message - 
From: "Tim C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes


> Try a little experiment.  Next time a fly is buzzing around 
- note how 
> you can see it against the walls but you lose it when it 
goes across 
> dark carpet or the like.  It's a question of relativity - and bikes 
> (as I mentioned) are
> losing the advantage of their headlight (which ain't that 
much really) to
> daytime running lights.  So, if everyone was loud, the loud 
pipe advantage

> would go away, too.
>
> You also assert that the majority of sensory input when driving is 
> sight, not sound.  "Hogwash" to you then.  I am listening 
constantly - 
> to my own car's noises as well as everything else.  I'm 
sure many are 
> busy listening to their stereo (or cell phone 
conversation), but I'd 
> say the split of visual vs. auditory for me is more like 
60-40.  And 
> for those that aren't listening around me, I'm glad that German 
> carmakers tend to be serious about their horns.

>
> It's good that you see bikes - I do too.  But that doesn't change my
> stance
> that someone on a bike needs every advantage they can get - 
no matter how
> small of an extra margin it provides - and I think, with 
ample evidence to
> back it up, that loud pipes (as others have mentioned, they 
don't have to 
> be
> totally unmuffled Harley straight pipes, which are overkill and do 
> irritate

> even me) are more than just a small margin.
>
> For pete's sake, maybe you should "listen" to the actual 
riders that 
> have already chimed in on this topic.

>
> T
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Scordato

>> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 10:22 AM
>> To: Mercedes Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes
>>
>>
>> T may have said "They let the idiot know you're there, when they 
>> might well miss you."

>>
>> So again my question if this theory holds true, why not have every 
>> vehicle loud, i.e. cars, trucks ships, airplanes ect.in every city

>> every to

Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-27 Thread Tom Scordato
Robert if I ride a pedal bicycle or a scooter should I have a fog horn with 
that too to let everyone know I am coming?  How about if I cross a street, 
hey everyone carry an air horn to let it be known a pedestrian is crossing. 
Blind people would really love this.


If you choose to ride a motor bike then suck up the inherent risks.  Do not 
incontinence thousands of others for your own sake.  Or you can choose not 
to ride.  If I took up motor bike riding, I could drive a motor cycle from 
here to the moon and I would never want that noise, even if people were 
coming at me at ramming speed.  You know why?  I was taught to live by the 
Golden Rule. There is no way I would want my neighbors to suffer. A town, a 
suburb, a city, a country  is supposed to be as peaceful as possible. 
Remember that?  Remember when you got a ticket if your muffler was bad?  You 
used to in the 1960s and 1970s.  That was a good thing.  We survived just 
fine.  What happened?


Robert I am sure you are a good guy, but I tell you  if you had to ask your 
neighbors it was probably too loud.   You would have had the cops on you 
door step if you lived within a mile of me and some of my neighbors.  Why 
should my family (and countless others who are too afraid or worn down to 
speak up) suffer on account of that noise. Why?   How can the good of the 
few be more important than the good of the many??  One good reason, I have 
yet to hear one. It is pure selfishness and ego.


Cheers Tom





















- Original Message - 
From: "Robert & Tara Ludwick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 2:05 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes



Put a few hundred thousand miles on a motorcycle and you might change
your mind.
you notice people driving with windows up, in a daze  and weaving ,
suddenly snapping to as you approach. I had the things put on after
having to take the ditch a few times due to someone not paying attention
( and a full dressed Guzzi ( note, this is not a chopper, this is a Moto
Guzzi, i.e. safest motorcycle in the world at the time ) is NOT
something that you  want to be taking a ditch on, getting airborne on
one of those things is seriously NOT fun ).
At idle and low speed riding in a civilized manner, not much diference
in sound, at highwy speed or if you crack the throttle is where they get
loud.
Yes, there are some idiots who have to make the things bark at every
light, but I'm sure that's the least of their problems.

And at the time, I asked my neighbors if it had bothered them because I
was leaving for work at 4am, not a one had heard the thing.

-Robert

Curt Raymond wrote:
Ahh the old "Loud pipes save lives" argument. I've read some interesting 
studies that indicate this to be at best misleading and at worst absolute 
hogwash.
  The basic gist as I understand it is that because the sound is 
non-directional and because cars are so well sound-proofed that the 
loudness sort of blends in with everyday noises and doesn't help.
  Worse yet people can be distracted from putting on their makeup or 
their cellphone conversation and actually crash INTO bikes as they look 
around for where the sound is coming from. Plus some people will get 
angered by the noise and their already shoddy driving skills will get 
even worse possibly causing accidents around the motorcycle that might 
not actually include the motorcycle itself.
  Then add that the typical loud bike is a Harley and not as manuverable 
as a "real" (notice the quotes, I'm not looking for flames on that one) 
sport bike, and many Harley riders are not "serious" (those quotes again, 
on this one I mean the doctors, lawyers and other "prestige Harley 
riders") riders and as such will have an ego that doesn't keep them in a 
safe defensive driving posture thereby raising the danger statistic for 
"loud" bikes.


  I find 'em annoying and rude, esp at 6am when somebody cranks one up 
and I'm trying to sleep. Probably its not as much the bike's fault as the 
hillscroggin mouth breather that only thinks about how cool he thinks he 
is...


  -Curt

  Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 07:23:38 -0800
From: "Tim C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes
To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Actually, loud pipes let cars (mostly driven by blithering idiots who
fail
to see anything smaller than a Suburban) know you're there.  A friend
had an
obnoxiously loud bike (he bought it that way, wasn't trying to say
"look at
me") could hear him for about 3/4 of a mile away - he stated that cars
stayed away from him, even moving to the other side of their lane as he
passed.

Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-27 Thread Tim C
Are you having fun yet?

T

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Scordato
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 4:03 PM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes
> 
> 
> "car's noises as well as everything else.  I'm sure many are 
> busy listening to their stereo (or cell phone conversation), 
> but I'd say the split of visual vs. auditory for me is more 
> like 60-40"
> 
> Tim C/  (this is not just bikes)
> I presume blind people cannot get their driving license in 
> most states.  I 
> presume Deaf people can, so that kind of proves sight is the 
> key ingredient 
> when it comes to driving.
> 
> People should not have to suffer because you selfishly think 
> it is safer. If 
> it was confined to the road only and if we had some giant 
> sound barrier up 
> on every road maybe you have a point.  How do you explain the 
> other load non 
> bike vehicles what is their reason? We could all do just 
> 10mph and that 
> would be safer too.  I still claim the safety thing is bull.  
> You do it 
> because you like the noise.
> 
> We all got along just fine when people respected others 
> rights to low noise 
> levels.  When I (and thousands of others) am sitting in my 
> back yard can 
> hear a vehicle be it jack brakes, a pick up, car or bike A 
> MILE AWAY  that 
> is a problem.  Or when I am trying to talk to my kid in the 
> yard and some 
> brain surgeon goes by stops at the stop light and revs it up 
> (I guess his 
> engine is such a hog that it wills stall if he does not why 
> else rev it 
> up?!) and I can not hear her only the windows rattle... that 
> is a problem It 
> is being totally inconsiderate.  We all take chances when we 
> drive.   We 
> should not make others suffer though who are not even on the 
> road.  They put 
> mufflers on for a reason. That does not mean we pick and 
> choice who uses 
> them. I thank the good Lord I live up north this limits allot 
> of this noise 
> to just the summer months Nuff said I guess I may be in the 
> minority on this 
> but that does not make it right or acceptable.  "in the 
> insane world the 
> sane man must appear insane.."./ / Tom
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Tim C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 1:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes
> 
> 
> > Try a little experiment.  Next time a fly is buzzing around 
> - note how 
> > you can see it against the walls but you lose it when it 
> goes across 
> > dark carpet or the like.  It's a question of relativity - and bikes 
> > (as I mentioned) are
> > losing the advantage of their headlight (which ain't that 
> much really) to
> > daytime running lights.  So, if everyone was loud, the loud 
> pipe advantage
> > would go away, too.
> >
> > You also assert that the majority of sensory input when driving is 
> > sight, not sound.  "Hogwash" to you then.  I am listening 
> constantly - 
> > to my own car's noises as well as everything else.  I'm 
> sure many are 
> > busy listening to their stereo (or cell phone 
> conversation), but I'd 
> > say the split of visual vs. auditory for me is more like 
> 60-40.  And 
> > for those that aren't listening around me, I'm glad that German 
> > carmakers tend to be serious about their horns.
> >
> > It's good that you see bikes - I do too.  But that doesn't change my
> > stance
> > that someone on a bike needs every advantage they can get - 
> no matter how
> > small of an extra margin it provides - and I think, with 
> ample evidence to
> > back it up, that loud pipes (as others have mentioned, they 
> don't have to 
> > be
> > totally unmuffled Harley straight pipes, which are overkill and do 
> > irritate
> > even me) are more than just a small margin.
> >
> > For pete's sake, maybe you should "listen" to the actual 
> riders that 
> > have already chimed in on this topic.
> >
> > T
> >
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Scordato
> >> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 10:22 AM
> >> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> >> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes
> >>
> >>
> >> T may have said "They let

Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-27 Thread Tom Scordato

"car's noises as well as everything else.  I'm sure many are busy listening
to their stereo (or cell phone conversation), but I'd say the split of
visual vs. auditory for me is more like 60-40"

Tim C/  (this is not just bikes)
I presume blind people cannot get their driving license in most states.  I 
presume Deaf people can, so that kind of proves sight is the key ingredient 
when it comes to driving.


People should not have to suffer because you selfishly think it is safer. If 
it was confined to the road only and if we had some giant sound barrier up 
on every road maybe you have a point.  How do you explain the other load non 
bike vehicles what is their reason? We could all do just 10mph and that 
would be safer too.  I still claim the safety thing is bull.  You do it 
because you like the noise.


We all got along just fine when people respected others rights to low noise 
levels.  When I (and thousands of others) am sitting in my back yard can 
hear a vehicle be it jack brakes, a pick up, car or bike A MILE AWAY  that 
is a problem.  Or when I am trying to talk to my kid in the yard and some 
brain surgeon goes by stops at the stop light and revs it up (I guess his 
engine is such a hog that it wills stall if he does not why else rev it 
up?!) and I can not hear her only the windows rattle... that is a problem It 
is being totally inconsiderate.  We all take chances when we drive.   We 
should not make others suffer though who are not even on the road.  They put 
mufflers on for a reason. That does not mean we pick and choice who uses 
them. I thank the good Lord I live up north this limits allot of this noise 
to just the summer months Nuff said I guess I may be in the minority on this 
but that does not make it right or acceptable.  "in the insane world the 
sane man must appear insane.."./ / Tom










- Original Message - 
From: "Tim C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes



Try a little experiment.  Next time a fly is buzzing around - note how you
can see it against the walls but you lose it when it goes across dark 
carpet
or the like.  It's a question of relativity - and bikes (as I mentioned) 
are

losing the advantage of their headlight (which ain't that much really) to
daytime running lights.  So, if everyone was loud, the loud pipe advantage
would go away, too.

You also assert that the majority of sensory input when driving is sight,
not sound.  "Hogwash" to you then.  I am listening constantly - to my own
car's noises as well as everything else.  I'm sure many are busy listening
to their stereo (or cell phone conversation), but I'd say the split of
visual vs. auditory for me is more like 60-40.  And for those that aren't
listening around me, I'm glad that German carmakers tend to be serious 
about

their horns.

It's good that you see bikes - I do too.  But that doesn't change my 
stance

that someone on a bike needs every advantage they can get - no matter how
small of an extra margin it provides - and I think, with ample evidence to
back it up, that loud pipes (as others have mentioned, they don't have to 
be
totally unmuffled Harley straight pipes, which are overkill and do 
irritate

even me) are more than just a small margin.

For pete's sake, maybe you should "listen" to the actual riders that have
already chimed in on this topic.

T


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Scordato
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 10:22 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes


T may have said "They let the idiot know you're there, when
they might well
miss you."

So again my question if this theory holds true, why not have
every vehicle
loud, i.e. cars, trucks ships, airplanes ect.in every city
every town.  The
whole place the whole country can sound like a pit at a
nascar race or the
space shuttle going off.   Then we would all know where we
are.  An it would
be safer right?

Hog wash, I would guess 98% plus of what we sense when we
drive is from
sight not sound.

I do 45,000 to 55,000 miles a year in a car and I never fail
to see a bike
coming, especially with head lights on.

The noise is for the "look at me ego" thing.  You loud
vehicle drivers (not
just Harleys mind you) will usually never admit that though.  /Tom


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Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-26 Thread R A Bennell
I recall an incident where I was cruising down a 4 lane highway in my
Suburban. It started making an odd noise and I was busy trying to figure out
what was going wrong with my truck. The noise got louder and I was becoming
more concerned. Then an odd looking duck on an old Harley roared by me on
the outside. He was obviously travelling long distance as he had a pack and
a bedroll tied on the back. He was wearing a suede leather coat with long
fringe and it was flapping like crazy. I cannot say that I ever saw him
coming until he went by my door but I did hear him coming. I just did not
have any clue that it was a motorcyle making the noise. It was a wierd
incident and it has stuck in my mind. I am happy that I did not decide to
change lanes or something and take him out in the process.

I also know from riding bikes (my last was a Goldwing) that people do not
see bikes or at least do not give bikes enough room. I had cars back out of
driveways in front of me more than once. I got real careful. My neck would
start to hurt from looking both ways 10 times at each intersection (a bit of
an exaggeration but one of the reasons why I no longer have a bike - I think
I got old enough to be a bit smarter - my old Benz is my substitute for the
bike now).

Randy

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of LT Don
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 1:16 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes


How do you know -- maybe you just didn't see it. The guy who t-boned me on
my Suzuki in 1976 swore to the cop that I wasn't where I was when he hit me
when he hit me.

On 1/26/06, Tom Scordato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> I do 45,000 to 55,000 miles a year in a car and I never fail to see a bike
> coming, especially with head lights on.
>
>
>


--
1977 240D
1983 VW Quantum turbo diesel 5-speed
1972 Honda CB-500K motorcycle

http://www.airamericaradio.com/listen
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Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-26 Thread Curt Raymond
Ironically the first time I had this happen it was my father-in-law... The 
mufflers on his sporty had rotted out and he'd never bothered to replace them. 
He finally replaced the whole bike, his Ultra Classic is loudish but not 
obnoxious. Wound out my Honda CB900 is probably about the same although at idle 
the Honda is much quieter.
   
  -Curt
   
  Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 13:06:53 -0500
From: "Tom Scordato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes
To: "Mercedes Discussion List" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
 reply-type=original

"6am when somebody cranks one up and I'm trying to sleep."

Amen thanks Curt!/Tom


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You in Memphis, Don?

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> http://www.smithimports.com/601013.htm
>
>
>
> Donald H. Snook
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-26 Thread LT Don
How do you know -- maybe you just didn't see it. The guy who t-boned me on
my Suzuki in 1976 swore to the cop that I wasn't where I was when he hit me
when he hit me.

On 1/26/06, Tom Scordato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> I do 45,000 to 55,000 miles a year in a car and I never fail to see a bike
> coming, especially with head lights on.
>
>
>


--
1977 240D
1983 VW Quantum turbo diesel 5-speed
1972 Honda CB-500K motorcycle

http://www.airamericaradio.com/listen


Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-26 Thread R A Bennell
I assume you do not see many normally aspirated old MB diesels out there. 

-Original Message-

No. LA, saturday night at about midnight. Eastbound on I-10 from I-5 in
the crown victoria, bumper to bumper traffic almost all the way out to 
SR-57, GOING 85 MPH.

Don't sneeze, don't change the radio station, don't look at a map, don't
check your mirror, don't even think. Any of these will cause an instant
fifteen car pileup since the SUV behind you is literally a foot behind you.





Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-26 Thread Tim C
Unless you like torque.

T

> Besides, if someone wanted increased performance, they 
> wouldn't have bought a 
> Harley to begin with!  ;-)
> 
> -- 
> John L. Ervine
> 1981 240D 4-spd 268+kmi
> 1980 300TD 170+kmi
> 1980 300SD 277+kmi
> 1977 280S 4-spd 80+kmi



Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-26 Thread Kevin
On Thu, Jan 26, 2006 at 01:25:17PM -0600, Robert & Tara Ludwick wrote:
> Houston during rush hour...one of the few places where is it even scary 
> to drive a semi!

No. LA, saturday night at about midnight. Eastbound on I-10 from I-5 in
the crown victoria, bumper to bumper traffic almost all the way out to 
SR-57, GOING 85 MPH.

Don't sneeze, don't change the radio station, don't look at a map, don't
check your mirror, don't even think. Any of these will cause an instant
fifteen car pileup since the SUV behind you is literally a foot behind you.

Seriously more nerveracking than towing a 9000 lb travel trailer down the 
hill from tahoe with jersey barriers IN the lane you're trying to drive in, 
on both sides of your lane.

K



Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-26 Thread Kevin
On Thu, Jan 26, 2006 at 11:30:12AM -0500, John Ervine wrote:
> The only time you can hear them at highway speeds is when the bike is in 
> front of you, because the pipes point to the rear of the bike!

It's actually worse than that. CHP's sirens are often difficult to hear
on the highway until they are right up behind you, and we won't talk about
the PA either. 

Having something be loud is usually because you want to be noticed. If someone
has loud pipes on their bike for perceived safety, it is STILL because they
want to be noticed.

I have to stay out of the rest of the argument, since my tow vehicles set 
off car alarms and rattle house windows. There is nothing quite like the
sound of a healthy big block consuming dead dinosaurs :)

K



Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-26 Thread Robert & Tara Ludwick
ive Houston traffic without a problem.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Ervine
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 11:32 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

...  The only way loud pipes will help to reverse this is if you 
stop using them for their intended purposes and start beating stupid
drivers 
with them instead.


  





Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-26 Thread John Ervine

Dave M. wrote:

Not entirely true. Might I recommend:


Dave, you and I are talking apples and oranges.  The loud pipes most people are 
complaining about are the kind slapped on to the side of some clap-trap Harley. 
 There is a huge difference in a performance exhaust that is louder than stock 
and open pipes on a Harley present for the sake of making as much noise as possible.


Besides, if someone wanted increased performance, they wouldn't have bought a 
Harley to begin with!  ;-)


--
John L. Ervine
1981 240D 4-spd 268+kmi
1980 300TD 170+kmi
1980 300SD 277+kmi
1977 280S 4-spd 80+kmi



Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-26 Thread Robert & Tara Ludwick

"I prefer my skin where it is, not in a wire brush in

Olga's hands at the hospital..."

How accurate a description that is  :-P  The ONE time I forgot to bring my 
gloves

If you ride for very long in LA traffic with quiet pipes, you'd better be 
either riding a racing bike, or plan on being buried...in an envelop.

-Robert



Dave M. wrote:

Not entirely true. Might I recommend:

1) Spend a day in urban California traffic on a bike with a silent,
stock exhaust

2) Spend another day in CA traffic on the same bike, but with performance pipe

3) Report back.

For the record, I've done this - over several years, SAME bike, same
town, swapping back & forth between pipes (stock exhaust and bolt-on
Yoshimura RS-3 pipe). People *do* hear you even if you're behind them,
at freeway speeds. No, not everyone, but some is better than none
before they whip over into your lane without looking!

Remember - I am NOT talking about a Harley with no mufflers here! I
hate those too! And I agree 1000% on the complete lack of driver
training in the USA. But that's a whole 'nuther rant which I'd rather
not get started on.

And while there's no helmet law here in Spudland, I don't go out of
the driveway without my armored Dainese leather suit, boots, gloves,
and helmet. I prefer my skin where it is, not in a wire brush in
Olga's hands at the hospital...

:)

-dm

  

--
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 11:30:12 -0500
From: John Ervine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes


That "Loud Pipes Saves Lives" mentality is based in junk science.  The only time
you can hear them at highway speeds is when the bike is in front of you, because
the pipes point to the rear of the bike!  All it is is pointless noise pollution
thrust upon the general public in the name of saving lives by people who have no
concept of the nature of sound waves or the Doppler Effect.

The real problem is that drivers in cars are never taught driver responsibility
or instructed in the proper operation of their vehicles - much less to be aware
of pedestrians and motorcycles on or near the roadways.  Until such education is
required for obtaining a license, all the straight pipes in the world won't save
the average RUB on his Harley from Sally Soccermom's suburban assault
vehicle.



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Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-26 Thread Robert & Tara Ludwick
Put a few hundred thousand miles on a motorcycle and you might change 
your mind.
you notice people driving with windows up, in a daze  and weaving , 
suddenly snapping to as you approach. I had the things put on after 
having to take the ditch a few times due to someone not paying attention 
( and a full dressed Guzzi ( note, this is not a chopper, this is a Moto 
Guzzi, i.e. safest motorcycle in the world at the time ) is NOT 
something that you  want to be taking a ditch on, getting airborne on 
one of those things is seriously NOT fun ).
At idle and low speed riding in a civilized manner, not much diference 
in sound, at highwy speed or if you crack the throttle is where they get 
loud.
Yes, there are some idiots who have to make the things bark at every 
light, but I'm sure that's the least of their problems.


And at the time, I asked my neighbors if it had bothered them because I 
was leaving for work at 4am, not a one had heard the thing.


-Robert

Curt Raymond wrote:

Ahh the old "Loud pipes save lives" argument. I've read some interesting 
studies that indicate this to be at best misleading and at worst absolute hogwash.
  The basic gist as I understand it is that because the sound is 
non-directional and because cars are so well sound-proofed that the loudness 
sort of blends in with everyday noises and doesn't help.
  Worse yet people can be distracted from putting on their makeup or their 
cellphone conversation and actually crash INTO bikes as they look around for 
where the sound is coming from. Plus some people will get angered by the noise 
and their already shoddy driving skills will get even worse possibly causing 
accidents around the motorcycle that might not actually include the motorcycle 
itself.
  Then add that the typical loud bike is a Harley and not as manuverable as a "real" (notice the quotes, I'm 
not looking for flames on that one) sport bike, and many Harley riders are not "serious" (those quotes again, 
on this one I mean the doctors, lawyers and other "prestige Harley riders") riders and as such will have an 
ego that doesn't keep them in a safe defensive driving posture thereby raising the danger statistic for 
"loud" bikes.
   
  I find 'em annoying and rude, esp at 6am when somebody cranks one up and I'm trying to sleep. Probably its not as much the bike's fault as the hillscroggin mouth breather that only thinks about how cool he thinks he is...
   
  -Curt
   
  Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 07:23:38 -0800

From: "Tim C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes
To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Actually, loud pipes let cars (mostly driven by blithering idiots who 
fail
to see anything smaller than a Suburban) know you're there.  A friend 
had an
obnoxiously loud bike (he bought it that way, wasn't trying to say 
"look at

me") could hear him for about 3/4 of a mile away - he stated that cars
stayed away from him, even moving to the other side of their lane as he
passed.  I know if I rode a bike, I'd want that kind of situation - not
being seen usually has disastrous results when you don't have a frame 
around

you.

T



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Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-26 Thread Tim C
Try a little experiment.  Next time a fly is buzzing around - note how you
can see it against the walls but you lose it when it goes across dark carpet
or the like.  It's a question of relativity - and bikes (as I mentioned) are
losing the advantage of their headlight (which ain't that much really) to
daytime running lights.  So, if everyone was loud, the loud pipe advantage
would go away, too.

You also assert that the majority of sensory input when driving is sight,
not sound.  "Hogwash" to you then.  I am listening constantly - to my own
car's noises as well as everything else.  I'm sure many are busy listening
to their stereo (or cell phone conversation), but I'd say the split of
visual vs. auditory for me is more like 60-40.  And for those that aren't
listening around me, I'm glad that German carmakers tend to be serious about
their horns.

It's good that you see bikes - I do too.  But that doesn't change my stance
that someone on a bike needs every advantage they can get - no matter how
small of an extra margin it provides - and I think, with ample evidence to
back it up, that loud pipes (as others have mentioned, they don't have to be
totally unmuffled Harley straight pipes, which are overkill and do irritate
even me) are more than just a small margin.  

For pete's sake, maybe you should "listen" to the actual riders that have
already chimed in on this topic.

T

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Scordato
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 10:22 AM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes
> 
> 
> T may have said "They let the idiot know you're there, when 
> they might well 
> miss you."
> 
> So again my question if this theory holds true, why not have 
> every vehicle 
> loud, i.e. cars, trucks ships, airplanes ect.in every city 
> every town.  The 
> whole place the whole country can sound like a pit at a 
> nascar race or the 
> space shuttle going off.   Then we would all know where we 
> are.  An it would 
> be safer right?
> 
> Hog wash, I would guess 98% plus of what we sense when we 
> drive is from 
> sight not sound.
> 
> I do 45,000 to 55,000 miles a year in a car and I never fail 
> to see a bike 
> coming, especially with head lights on.
> 
> The noise is for the "look at me ego" thing.  You loud 
> vehicle drivers (not 
> just Harleys mind you) will usually never admit that though.  /Tom



Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-26 Thread Potter, Tom E
Amen. Right on John. I don't know where you are located, but here in
Houston lots of them think they are still in Mexico City, not that we
don't have a substantial crop of home-grown idiots.

The following is sad but true.

HOUSTON TRAFFIC RULES FOR PEOPLE VISITING

1. You must learn to pronounce the name of the city. It is "Hue-stun,"
not "Ewe-ston," & definitely not "How-ston." The street named San Felipe
is pronounced "San FIL-uh-pee," not "San Fi-LEEP" or "San Fay-LEE-pay."

2. Forget any traffic rules you learned anywhere else. Houston has its
own version of traffic rules. They are called "Hold On and Pray." There
is no such thing as a high-speed chase in Houston. Everyone drives like
that.

3. All directions start with "Go down to Loop 610," which has no
beginning and no end.

4. You have the East, Katy, Southwest, North, South, Northwest, and
Eastex freeways, which are actually I-10 East, I-10 West, 59 North, 59
South, I-45 North, I-45 South, and 290, but not in that order. Your job
is to figure out which one you really want to get on, without any signs
to tell you. God help you if you are in the wrong lane, or you will go
around Loop 610 again, which is an endless circle.

5. The Chamber of Commerce calls getting through traffic "a scenic
drive." It is if you love seeing wrecks and people risking their lives
changing tires, running through pot holes, slamming on your brakes to
avoid a collision, having people cut you off, seeing a lot of people's
middle fingers, and exhaust fumes.

6. The morning rush hour is from 5:00 a.m. to 11:30 a.m. The noon-hour
rush is 11:00 a.m. to 1:30 p.m. The evening rush hour is 2:00 p.m. to
8:00 p.m., sometimes 9:00 p.m. (or 3 a.m. during floods, which we call
"ponding"). The teenagers take the streets from 9:00 p.m. through 5:00
a.m., and Friday's rush hour starts on Thursday morning.

7. If you actually stop at a yellow light, you WILL be rear ended, or at
least cussed out, and/or possibly shot. When you are the first off the
starting line, count to 5 before moving when the light turns green, to
avoid being "T-boned" by crossing traffic.

8. Construction on every freeway, loop, and tollway in the city is a
permanent form of entertainment as well as a source of delays.

9. Kuykendahl Road can be pronounced ONLY by a native Houstonian. (It is
pronounced "Kirk-n-doll.")

10. All unexplained smells are accompanied by the phrase "Oh, we must be
near Pasadena."

11. If someone actually has his turn signal on, it is probably a factory
defect and should be ignored.

12. All Suburbans have the right-of-way, unless you are driving an
18-wheeler, a Hummer, or perhaps a Bradley tank (or an Excursion).

13. The minimum acceptable speed limit on Loop 610 is 85 mph. Otherwise,
you will be stopped by Houston's Finest for impeding the flow of
traffic.

14. The wrought-iron bars on windows in East Houston are NOT ornamental.

15. Never honk at the driver of a car with a bumper sticker that says,
"Keep honking. I'm reloading." In fact, don't honk at anyone.

16. If you are in the left lane, and going only 70 mph in a 60 mph zone,
the people who are passing you are not really waving at you.

17. If it is 100 degrees outside, then January 1st must be next weekend.

18. The Sam Houston Toll Road is Houston's daily version of a NASCAR
 race.

19. When in doubt, remember that all unmarked exits lead to the state of
Louisiana.

20. Don't get on Main Street unless you really WANT to be on Main
Street. Left turns and right turns are not allowed between the South
Loop and Dallas (that's Dallas, Texas, not Dallas Street).

21. Don't get sick or injured. There are no parking spaces in the Texas
Medical Center for anyone but doctors.

22. You don't have to wait for an exit to get off the freeways. Just
follow the ruts in the grass to the frontage road like everyone else.
This is how Houston residents notify the Texas Department of
Transportation where exits should have been built in the first place.
 
23.  Stop signs are only suggestions.  If you stop completely, you may
be
rear-ended.
 
24.  If your vehicle is in any way disabled on a busy street,
immediately 
abandon it if traffic begins to buildangry drivers who just made it
through the construction zone may yell at you or honk or maybe even
throw
something at you.
 
25.  The HOV lane is called the H-O-V lane not the hov lane and is
for all vehicles with 2 or 3 or more passengers (dead or alive or
inflatable). 

That's about it, folks.  Remember these tips and you should be able to
survive Houston traffic without a problem.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Ervine
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 11:32 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud 

Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-26 Thread Hans Neureiter
On 1/26/06, Tom Scordato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>  why not have every vehicle loud, i.e. cars, trucks ships, airplanes
> ect.in every city every town.
> I do 45,000 to 55,000 miles a year in a car and I never fail to see a bike
> coming, especially with head lights on.


Bikers had an advantage with their head lights on during the day. No longer.
Just about every newer car has daylight runninlights. You are apparently not
one of the drivers that bikers have to be weary of. Thank you.



--
Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX
'82 300SD, '95 E300D


Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-26 Thread Hans Neureiter
On 1/26/06, John Ervine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Tim C wrote:
> > Oh, and you also left out every other situation (e.g, cars often pull
> out in
> > front of bikes) where loud pipes can be of benefit.
>
> No, I didn't.  Driver error in this instance is due to lack of proper
> operation
> of the vehicle - checking blind spots, failure to adequately judge
> distance or
> speed, etc.  How do loud pipes correct this?  They don't.


You ride down a long and sraight country road. A quarter mile down sits a
farmtractor in a ddrive, ready to pull onto the road. Oncoming is a car. As
soon the car goes by, he pulls out. Never payd attention to the bike. Crash.
If he would have heard you he might have noticed you (I said 'noticed',
not seen!)

The systemic problem is improperly, poorly, and/or inadequately trained
> drivers
> on the roadways.  The only way loud pipes will help to reverse this is if
> you
> stop using them for their intended purposes and start beating stupid
> drivers
> with them instead.


Now, that would be road rage.
--
Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX
'82 300SD, '95 E300D


Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-26 Thread Tom Scordato
T may have said "They let the idiot know you're there, when they might well 
miss you."


So again my question if this theory holds true, why not have every vehicle 
loud, i.e. cars, trucks ships, airplanes ect.in every city every town.  The 
whole place the whole country can sound like a pit at a nascar race or the 
space shuttle going off.   Then we would all know where we are.  An it would 
be safer right?


Hog wash, I would guess 98% plus of what we sense when we drive is from 
sight not sound.


I do 45,000 to 55,000 miles a year in a car and I never fail to see a bike 
coming, especially with head lights on.


The noise is for the "look at me ego" thing.  You loud vehicle drivers (not 
just Harleys mind you) will usually never admit that though.  /Tom








- Original Message - 
From: "Tim C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes



Tim C wrote:
> Oh, and you also left out every other situation (e.g, cars
often pull
> out in front of bikes) where loud pipes can be of benefit.

No, I didn't.  Driver error in this instance is due to lack
of proper operation
of the vehicle - checking blind spots, failure to adequately
judge distance or
speed, etc.  How do loud pipes correct this?  They don't.


They let the idiot know you're there, when they might well miss you.

T

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Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-26 Thread Tim C
Wow, I seem to have touched a nerve.

Well, the logic that "everyone should be as loud then" is false.  Then the
bike would not stand out.  I am vehemently against cars having daytime
running lights for this same reason.

A guy I know at school (Harley type but has Japanese bikes)(and who is quite
knowledgeable and not the biker stereotype even though he looks it) had
actually really good arguments against helmets and supporting their
contribution to lack of safety.  His argument was that they significantly
add to fatigue - he'd much rather wear a leather helmet for a compromise
between some protection and far less fatigue - he said the only wrecks he's
ever had were due to being tired.  And I buy this to some extent -
generally, and I don't remember where the crossover in forward speed is,
you're far worse off if you fall over farther (a due to g) than if you're
moving forward faster - hence, a 10-speed bike rider going 20 is in much
worse danger of head injury than a cruiser rider going 40 or 50.  This came
out when bike helmets were first becoming more mainstream - I was really
rather surprised, as I've ridden bicycles without helmets forever, wrongly
assuming (it turns out) that the relatively low speeds make them
unnecessary.

Some "good mechanical types" apparently disagree with you - I have an MSME
from Okie State Ag and Mech.

T

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Scordato
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 8:39 AM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes
> 
> 
> "could hear him for about 3/4 of a mile away - he stated that 
> cars"
> 
> If that thinking is true let us have every vehicle/truck/car 
> on the roads 
> have no muffler then we would be really safe and could hear 
> each other 
> coming.
> 
> I had a guy (he looked like a Hun, proally why no one wants 
> to mess with 
> these guys and question this stuff) in Pennsylvania say the 
> same thing to 
> me.  "It is for safety".  But with the recent appealed helmet 
> law he did not 
> wear a helmet.  Yeah he was real concerned about safety!!??
> 
> Spade a Spade:  No it is about making noise, a power trip and 
> "saying look 
> at me" and nothing else. It is certainly not about humility, 
> God forbid.  I 
> would get out my decibel meter and ticket everyone of the 
> bastards if I were 
> a cop for disturbing the peace.
> 
> By degree I am a Marine/Mechanical Engineer.  On a merchant 
> ship (Navy / 
> Shore side same way) every piece a machinery we would judge 
> by the level of 
> sound.  Excessive sound and loud sound were ussually a sign of 
> trouble/danger.  Most good mechanical types agree optimal 
> design operation 
> is as quiet as possible.
> .   /Tom



Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-26 Thread Tom Scordato

"6am when somebody cranks one up and I'm trying to sleep."

Amen thanks Curt!/Tom
- Original Message - 
From: "Curt Raymond" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes


Ahh the old "Loud pipes save lives" argument. I've read some interesting 
studies that indicate this to be at best misleading and at worst absolute 
hogwash.
 The basic gist as I understand it is that because the sound is 
non-directional and because cars are so well sound-proofed that the 
loudness sort of blends in with everyday noises and doesn't help.
 Worse yet people can be distracted from putting on their makeup or their 
cellphone conversation and actually crash INTO bikes as they look around 
for where the sound is coming from. Plus some people will get angered by 
the noise and their already shoddy driving skills will get even worse 
possibly causing accidents around the motorcycle that might not actually 
include the motorcycle itself.
 Then add that the typical loud bike is a Harley and not as manuverable as 
a "real" (notice the quotes, I'm not looking for flames on that one) sport 
bike, and many Harley riders are not "serious" (those quotes again, on 
this one I mean the doctors, lawyers and other "prestige Harley riders") 
riders and as such will have an ego that doesn't keep them in a safe 
defensive driving posture thereby raising the danger statistic for "loud" 
bikes.


 I find 'em annoying and rude, esp at 6am when somebody cranks one up and 
I'm trying to sleep. Probably its not as much the bike's fault as the 
hillscroggin mouth breather that only thinks about how cool he thinks he 
is...


 -Curt

 Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 07:23:38 -0800
From: "Tim C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes
To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Actually, loud pipes let cars (mostly driven by blithering idiots who
fail
to see anything smaller than a Suburban) know you're there.  A friend
had an
obnoxiously loud bike (he bought it that way, wasn't trying to say
"look at
me") could hear him for about 3/4 of a mile away - he stated that cars
stayed away from him, even moving to the other side of their lane as he
passed.  I know if I rode a bike, I'd want that kind of situation - not
being seen usually has disastrous results when you don't have a frame
around
you.

T



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Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-26 Thread Tim C
> Tim C wrote:
> > Oh, and you also left out every other situation (e.g, cars 
> often pull 
> > out in front of bikes) where loud pipes can be of benefit.
> 
> No, I didn't.  Driver error in this instance is due to lack 
> of proper operation 
> of the vehicle - checking blind spots, failure to adequately 
> judge distance or 
> speed, etc.  How do loud pipes correct this?  They don't.

They let the idiot know you're there, when they might well miss you.

T



Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-26 Thread Dave M.
Not entirely true. Might I recommend:

1) Spend a day in urban California traffic on a bike with a silent,
stock exhaust

2) Spend another day in CA traffic on the same bike, but with performance pipe

3) Report back.

For the record, I've done this - over several years, SAME bike, same
town, swapping back & forth between pipes (stock exhaust and bolt-on
Yoshimura RS-3 pipe). People *do* hear you even if you're behind them,
at freeway speeds. No, not everyone, but some is better than none
before they whip over into your lane without looking!

Remember - I am NOT talking about a Harley with no mufflers here! I
hate those too! And I agree 1000% on the complete lack of driver
training in the USA. But that's a whole 'nuther rant which I'd rather
not get started on.

And while there's no helmet law here in Spudland, I don't go out of
the driveway without my armored Dainese leather suit, boots, gloves,
and helmet. I prefer my skin where it is, not in a wire brush in
Olga's hands at the hospital...

:)

-dm

> --
> Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 11:30:12 -0500
> From: John Ervine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes
>
>
> That "Loud Pipes Saves Lives" mentality is based in junk science.  The only 
> time
> you can hear them at highway speeds is when the bike is in front of you, 
> because
> the pipes point to the rear of the bike!  All it is is pointless noise 
> pollution
> thrust upon the general public in the name of saving lives by people who have 
> no
> concept of the nature of sound waves or the Doppler Effect.
>
> The real problem is that drivers in cars are never taught driver 
> responsibility
> or instructed in the proper operation of their vehicles - much less to be 
> aware
> of pedestrians and motorcycles on or near the roadways.  Until such education 
> is
> required for obtaining a license, all the straight pipes in the world won't 
> save
> the average RUB on his Harley from Sally Soccermom's suburban assault
> vehicle.



Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-26 Thread Dave M.
I own a streetbike and I agree - mostly. Nearly all stock motorcycles
(well, the Japanese stuff anyway) have mufflers that are so quiet the
bike is near silent, and therefore laregely invisible to cage drivers.
(Don't believe me? Ride a bike on the street for a day, then we'll
talk.) A less restrictive muffler usually frees up a few ponies, and
also sounds a lot nicer. Think of a Camaro with a set of Flowmasters
installed. Deep rumble, but not obnoxious. Same deal with the bike -
it's not silent anymore, but not obnoxious either. And it gets you
auditory visibility, which is important to stay alive on the street
these days.

Now, there is a different crowd, usually with Harleys, that have huge
twin-cylinder engines that like to run straight pipes with NO
mufflers. And those things, especially at WOT, are beyond obnoxious.
They're usually obnoxious at idle, part throttle, and cruising, too...
unlike what I mentioned above (which is usually just questionable at
WOT). If you can't talk over it at idle, there's a problem, IMO. I
think the open-piped Harleys are the ones that cause a lot of anger by
the non-bike crowd. And some of the more, um, mature bikers as well.
;)

Loud pipes can save lives, but they don't have to be ear-splitting and
obnoxious to do so.

(flame suit on)

:)

-dm


> --
> Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 07:23:38 -0800
> From: "Tim C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes
>
> Actually, loud pipes let cars (mostly driven by blithering idiots who fail
> to see anything smaller than a Suburban) know you're there.  A friend had an
> obnoxiously loud bike (he bought it that way, wasn't trying to say "look at
> me") could hear him for about 3/4 of a mile away - he stated that cars
> stayed away from him, even moving to the other side of their lane as he
> passed.  I know if I rode a bike, I'd want that kind of situation - not
> being seen usually has disastrous results when you don't have a frame around
> you.
>
> T



Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-26 Thread Alex Chamberlain
On 1/26/06, John Ervine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The systemic problem is improperly, poorly, and/or inadequately trained 
> drivers
> on the roadways.  The only way loud pipes will help to reverse this is if you
> stop using them for their intended purposes and start beating stupid drivers
> with them instead.

Not a bad idea at all!

Alex Chamberlain
'87 300D Turbo



Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-26 Thread Hans Neureiter
On 1/26/06, John Ervine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> That "Loud Pipes Saves Lives" mentality is based in junk science


There is definately an advantage to be noisy. It's annoying, thus it gets
attention.
 People are to self-involved, so they ignore inconvemiences, like yielding
to a bike.
You got to piss 'em off in order to be recognized.
I have a prostehesis to proof what I know. Had I had loud p



.  The only time you can hear them at highway speeds is when the bike is in
> front of you,


At highway speeds automobilem-moorcycle accidents are very rare


> The real problem is that drivers in cars are never taught driver
> responsibility
> or instructed in the proper operation of their vehicles - much less to be
> aware
> of pedestrians and motorcycles on or near the roadways.  Until such
> education is
> required for obtaining a license, all the straight pipes in the world
> won't save
> the average RUB on his Harley from Sally Soccermom's suburban assault
> vehicle.


Well said, except OSB's (Old Streetsmart Bikers), like me, aren't save
neither.

--
> John L. Ervine
> 1981 240D 4-spd 268+kmi
> 1980 300TD 170+kmi
> 1980 300SD 277+kmi
> 1977 280S 4-spd 80+kmi
>
> ___
> http://www.striplin.net
> For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/
> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://striplin.net/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_striplin.net
>



--
Hans Neureiter, Houston, TX
'82 300SD, '95 E300D


Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-26 Thread John Ervine

Tim C wrote:

Oh, and you also left out every other situation (e.g, cars often pull out in
front of bikes) where loud pipes can be of benefit.


No, I didn't.  Driver error in this instance is due to lack of proper operation 
of the vehicle - checking blind spots, failure to adequately judge distance or 
speed, etc.  How do loud pipes correct this?  They don't.


The systemic problem is improperly, poorly, and/or inadequately trained drivers 
on the roadways.  The only way loud pipes will help to reverse this is if you 
stop using them for their intended purposes and start beating stupid drivers 
with them instead.


--
John L. Ervine
1981 240D 4-spd 268+kmi
1980 300TD 170+kmi
1980 300SD 277+kmi
1977 280S 4-spd 80+kmi



Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-26 Thread Tim C
Oh, and you also left out every other situation (e.g, cars often pull out in
front of bikes) where loud pipes can be of benefit.

I do agree that most drivers (and motorcyclists too, I'd bet, though
slightly less of those as they tend to weed out quicker) are morons without
any semblance of situational awareness or knowledge of car control or the
responsibility thereof.

T

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Ervine
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 8:30 AM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes
> 
> 
> Tim C wrote:
> > Actually, loud pipes let cars (mostly driven by blithering 
> idiots who 
> > fail to see anything smaller than a Suburban) know you're there.
> 
> That "Loud Pipes Saves Lives" mentality is based in junk 
> science.  The only time 
> you can hear them at highway speeds is when the bike is in 
> front of you, because 
> the pipes point to the rear of the bike!  All it is is 
> pointless noise pollution 
> thrust upon the general public in the name of saving lives by 
> people who have no 
> concept of the nature of sound waves or the Doppler Effect.
> 
> The real problem is that drivers in cars are never taught 
> driver responsibility 
> or instructed in the proper operation of their vehicles - 
> much less to be aware 
> of pedestrians and motorcycles on or near the roadways.  
> Until such education is 
> required for obtaining a license, all the straight pipes in 
> the world won't save 
> the average RUB on his Harley from Sally Soccermom's suburban 
> assault vehicle.



Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-26 Thread Curt Raymond
Ahh the old "Loud pipes save lives" argument. I've read some interesting 
studies that indicate this to be at best misleading and at worst absolute 
hogwash.
  The basic gist as I understand it is that because the sound is 
non-directional and because cars are so well sound-proofed that the loudness 
sort of blends in with everyday noises and doesn't help.
  Worse yet people can be distracted from putting on their makeup or their 
cellphone conversation and actually crash INTO bikes as they look around for 
where the sound is coming from. Plus some people will get angered by the noise 
and their already shoddy driving skills will get even worse possibly causing 
accidents around the motorcycle that might not actually include the motorcycle 
itself.
  Then add that the typical loud bike is a Harley and not as manuverable as a 
"real" (notice the quotes, I'm not looking for flames on that one) sport bike, 
and many Harley riders are not "serious" (those quotes again, on this one I 
mean the doctors, lawyers and other "prestige Harley riders") riders and as 
such will have an ego that doesn't keep them in a safe defensive driving 
posture thereby raising the danger statistic for "loud" bikes.
   
  I find 'em annoying and rude, esp at 6am when somebody cranks one up and I'm 
trying to sleep. Probably its not as much the bike's fault as the hillscroggin 
mouth breather that only thinks about how cool he thinks he is...
   
  -Curt
   
  Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 07:23:38 -0800
From: "Tim C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes
To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Actually, loud pipes let cars (mostly driven by blithering idiots who 
fail
to see anything smaller than a Suburban) know you're there.  A friend 
had an
obnoxiously loud bike (he bought it that way, wasn't trying to say 
"look at
me") could hear him for about 3/4 of a mile away - he stated that cars
stayed away from him, even moving to the other side of their lane as he
passed.  I know if I rode a bike, I'd want that kind of situation - not
being seen usually has disastrous results when you don't have a frame 
around
you.

T



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They tried this on the first season of Mythbusters with, I think, a Dodge 
Stratos. They couldn't do it but they couldn't get an actual plane to test 
with, only some stationary engines.
   
  -Curt
   
  Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 07:26:37 -0800
From: "Tim C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Crosswind
To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Yeah, when I was at Boeing there was a video on flightline safet

Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-26 Thread Tom Scordato

"could hear him for about 3/4 of a mile away - he stated that cars"

If that thinking is true let us have every vehicle/truck/car on the roads 
have no muffler then we would be really safe and could hear each other 
coming.


I had a guy (he looked like a Hun, proally why no one wants to mess with 
these guys and question this stuff) in Pennsylvania say the same thing to 
me.  "It is for safety".  But with the recent appealed helmet law he did not 
wear a helmet.  Yeah he was real concerned about safety!!??


Spade a Spade:  No it is about making noise, a power trip and "saying look 
at me" and nothing else. It is certainly not about humility, God forbid.  I 
would get out my decibel meter and ticket everyone of the bastards if I were 
a cop for disturbing the peace.


By degree I am a Marine/Mechanical Engineer.  On a merchant ship (Navy / 
Shore side same way) every piece a machinery we would judge by the level of 
sound.  Excessive sound and loud sound were ussually a sign of 
trouble/danger.  Most good mechanical types agree optimal design operation 
is as quiet as possible.

.   /Tom











- Original Message - 
From: "Tim C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "'Mercedes Discussion List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes



Actually, loud pipes let cars (mostly driven by blithering idiots who fail
to see anything smaller than a Suburban) know you're there.  A friend had 
an
obnoxiously loud bike (he bought it that way, wasn't trying to say "look 
at

me") could hear him for about 3/4 of a mile away - he stated that cars
stayed away from him, even moving to the other side of their lane as he
passed.  I know if I rode a bike, I'd want that kind of situation - not
being seen usually has disastrous results when you don't have a frame 
around

you.

T


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Scordato
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 3:50 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: [MBZ] Bike rider


Very Neat clip!

SOUND OFF
A least it is quiet unlike in the US where too many  like the
loud bikes.
Un like the Europeans,  we suffer more from the "look at me syndrome"
Nothing negative opinion wise about riding motorcycles. I
think they are
neat, always have. But when they are louder than the space
shuttle you are
now infringing on my freedom.  I asked a local cop about the
noise as one
drove by, he put it best when he said "simple things amuse
simple minds"
In my day if you did not have a muffler (or it was loud)
regardless of
vehicle you got a ticket period end of story.  I cannot pin
it down but
maybe with the prevailing Nascar/Country music/Rap/It is
acceptable to be a
Red neck/ crush kill destroy,  mentality in this country in
the last 20
years it has become a free for all with the vehicle noise.  I
would ticket
everyone of these vehicles just like I deserve and have
gotten tickets when
my muffler has gone bad. Tom


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Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-26 Thread Tim C
OK, you go on believing that, and I'll go on believing my friend.  As well
as my own ears - I have definitely heard loud bikes come up from behind, at
freeway speeds and in freeway traffic - windows up.  

T

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Ervine
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 8:30 AM
> To: Mercedes Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes
> 
> 
> Tim C wrote:
> > Actually, loud pipes let cars (mostly driven by blithering 
> idiots who 
> > fail to see anything smaller than a Suburban) know you're there.
> 
> That "Loud Pipes Saves Lives" mentality is based in junk 
> science.  The only time 
> you can hear them at highway speeds is when the bike is in 
> front of you, because 
> the pipes point to the rear of the bike!  All it is is 
> pointless noise pollution 
> thrust upon the general public in the name of saving lives by 
> people who have no 
> concept of the nature of sound waves or the Doppler Effect.
> 
> The real problem is that drivers in cars are never taught 
> driver responsibility 
> or instructed in the proper operation of their vehicles - 
> much less to be aware 
> of pedestrians and motorcycles on or near the roadways.  
> Until such education is 
> required for obtaining a license, all the straight pipes in 
> the world won't save 
> the average RUB on his Harley from Sally Soccermom's suburban 
> assault vehicle.
> 
> -- 
> John L. Ervine
> 1981 240D 4-spd 268+kmi
> 1980 300TD 170+kmi
> 1980 300SD 277+kmi
> 1977 280S 4-spd 80+kmi



Re: [MBZ] Bike rider, loud pipes

2006-01-26 Thread John Ervine

Tim C wrote:

Actually, loud pipes let cars (mostly driven by blithering idiots who fail
to see anything smaller than a Suburban) know you're there.


That "Loud Pipes Saves Lives" mentality is based in junk science.  The only time 
you can hear them at highway speeds is when the bike is in front of you, because 
the pipes point to the rear of the bike!  All it is is pointless noise pollution 
thrust upon the general public in the name of saving lives by people who have no 
concept of the nature of sound waves or the Doppler Effect.


The real problem is that drivers in cars are never taught driver responsibility 
or instructed in the proper operation of their vehicles - much less to be aware 
of pedestrians and motorcycles on or near the roadways.  Until such education is 
required for obtaining a license, all the straight pipes in the world won't save 
the average RUB on his Harley from Sally Soccermom's suburban assault vehicle.


--
John L. Ervine
1981 240D 4-spd 268+kmi
1980 300TD 170+kmi
1980 300SD 277+kmi
1977 280S 4-spd 80+kmi