Re: [MBZ] Differences between '82 and 84-85 OM617s?
Not sure if anyone's mentioned it yet, but the '85 Cal-spec OM617 sitting in my garage (waiting for a vehicle) has a completely different intake and exhaust manifold setup, so the downpipe would need to be modified, if run in an earlier vehicle (or just swap over all those parts from the early car). Casey Olympia, WA Biodiesel: "I drive in a persistent vegetative state" '87 300TD intercooler/propane #22 0-60mph 7.3sec (220k) '84 300D (218k) Gashuffer: '89 Vanagon Wolfsburg Edition (187K) http://users.zhonka.net/zeitgeist/Misc/IMG_0171.JPG
Re: [MBZ] Differences between '82 and 84-85 OM617s?
got ya Marshall Booth wrote: Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: The 85 will work just fine, unless its a california version you wont have to change the manifold. Motor mount arms are the same. The IP is different although it should work fine. You will have to swap in the whole engine and trans together from the 85 though as I dont think the old style trans will work with the 85 engine. Only other real difference is the 85 doesnt have the vacuum switches on top of the valve cover, instead it has an electric switch to control EGR. Thats all easy to swap over. Just mount your vacuum switches to the 85 valve cover. Oh yea, the tach drive is different, the 85 gets its signal off the bell housing. The 82 off the crank. The 85 engine should still have the sensor there so that shouldnt be a problem. Old transmission will work with '85 engine, but an '85 transmission and converter can't go onto an older engine. Marshall -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL #2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 84 190D 2.2 #2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] Differences between '82 and 84-85 OM617s?
andrew strasfogel wrote: We have an 83 300TD and an 85 300TD. Due to transmission differences, the VACUUM systems are radically different, as displayed under the hood. The plastic lines are a veritable tangle of spaghetti in the 85 compared to the relatively simple 83 configuration. I don't know how this would affect engine swapping in the two model year 123 cars. The primary difference is with the vacuum control of the EGR - NOT the transmission. If you disable the EGR then there is NO problem. Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [MBZ] Differences between '82 and 84-85 OM617s?
Kaleb C. Striplin wrote: The 85 will work just fine, unless its a california version you wont have to change the manifold. Motor mount arms are the same. The IP is different although it should work fine. You will have to swap in the whole engine and trans together from the 85 though as I dont think the old style trans will work with the 85 engine. Only other real difference is the 85 doesnt have the vacuum switches on top of the valve cover, instead it has an electric switch to control EGR. Thats all easy to swap over. Just mount your vacuum switches to the 85 valve cover. Oh yea, the tach drive is different, the 85 gets its signal off the bell housing. The 82 off the crank. The 85 engine should still have the sensor there so that shouldnt be a problem. Old transmission will work with '85 engine, but an '85 transmission and converter can't go onto an older engine. Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [MBZ] Differences between '82 and 84-85 OM617s?
We have an 83 300TD and an 85 300TD. Due to transmission differences, the VACUUM systems are radically different, as displayed under the hood. The plastic lines are a veritable tangle of spaghetti in the 85 compared to the relatively simple 83 configuration. I don't know how this would affect engine swapping in the two model year 123 cars. On 11/27/06, Kaleb C. Striplin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The 85 will work just fine, unless its a california version you wont have to change the manifold. Motor mount arms are the same. The IP is different although it should work fine. You will have to swap in the whole engine and trans together from the 85 though as I dont think the old style trans will work with the 85 engine. Only other real difference is the 85 doesnt have the vacuum switches on top of the valve cover, instead it has an electric switch to control EGR. Thats all easy to swap over. Just mount your vacuum switches to the 85 valve cover. Oh yea, the tach drive is different, the 85 gets its signal off the bell housing. The 82 off the crank. The 85 engine should still have the sensor there so that shouldnt be a problem. Steve MacSween wrote: > I have a *discussion* going on here with the shop that is doing the engine > replacement on my 1982 w126 SD. > > I got an engine out of car I knew, slightly anyway, and drove once... an '85 > w126 SD. > > Now that the donor car has been delivered to them, the shop is saying they > can't stand by the original, quoted labour as they are going to have to > change over my manifold, engine mount brackets, and possibly even the pump > as the '85 has a 'later-generation' OM617 that 'has electronics'. > > HUH. First I ever heard there was a difference between OM617s, any large > difference anyway, within the w126 series cars. > > Someone enlighten me, please and thankee thankee. > -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL #2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 84 190D 2.2 #2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.striplin.net ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Differences between '82 and 84-85 OM617s?
The 85 will work just fine, unless its a california version you wont have to change the manifold. Motor mount arms are the same. The IP is different although it should work fine. You will have to swap in the whole engine and trans together from the 85 though as I dont think the old style trans will work with the 85 engine. Only other real difference is the 85 doesnt have the vacuum switches on top of the valve cover, instead it has an electric switch to control EGR. Thats all easy to swap over. Just mount your vacuum switches to the 85 valve cover. Oh yea, the tach drive is different, the 85 gets its signal off the bell housing. The 82 off the crank. The 85 engine should still have the sensor there so that shouldnt be a problem. Steve MacSween wrote: I have a *discussion* going on here with the shop that is doing the engine replacement on my 1982 w126 SD. I got an engine out of car I knew, slightly anyway, and drove once... an '85 w126 SD. Now that the donor car has been delivered to them, the shop is saying they can't stand by the original, quoted labour as they are going to have to change over my manifold, engine mount brackets, and possibly even the pump as the '85 has a 'later-generation' OM617 that 'has electronics'. HUH. First I ever heard there was a difference between OM617s, any large difference anyway, within the w126 series cars. Someone enlighten me, please and thankee thankee. -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL #2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 84 190D 2.2 #2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] Differences between '82 and 84-85 OM617s?
Marshall, Thanks for the correction, I owned an 85 but I've owned so many diesels that I don't remember which have electronic idle stabilization & which do not. My 87 300SDL does have electronic idle stabilization. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marshall Booth Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 7:34 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Differences between '82 and 84-85 OM617s? Tom Hargrave wrote: > 1985 was a transition year & there will be differences in the pump if the > car uses electronic idle stabilization. I do know that there is a difference > in the transmission that the shop may not have considered. The nose piece on > the input shaft is a different size. & don't remember if the 85 is larger or > the 82 is larger. If the 85 is larger, you might have a problem because the > nose piece won't fit inside the crank pilot hole. There is NO electronics for the engine idle control because there is NO engine idle control on OM617.96 engines. The electronics for the AC system is different, but that isn't related to the engine other than that the compressor is attached TO the engine. The wiring harness MAY be different, but it's usual to use the wiring harness of your car - NOT the donor car! Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Differences between '82 and 84-85 OM617s?
Tom Hargrave wrote: 1985 was a transition year & there will be differences in the pump if the car uses electronic idle stabilization. I do know that there is a difference in the transmission that the shop may not have considered. The nose piece on the input shaft is a different size. & don't remember if the 85 is larger or the 82 is larger. If the 85 is larger, you might have a problem because the nose piece won't fit inside the crank pilot hole. There is NO electronics for the engine idle control because there is NO engine idle control on OM617.96 engines. The electronics for the AC system is different, but that isn't related to the engine other than that the compressor is attached TO the engine. The wiring harness MAY be different, but it's usual to use the wiring harness of your car - NOT the donor car! Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [MBZ] Differences between '82 and 84-85 OM617s?
Steve MacSween wrote: I have a *discussion* going on here with the shop that is doing the engine replacement on my 1982 w126 SD. I got an engine out of car I knew, slightly anyway, and drove once... an '85 w126 SD. Now that the donor car has been delivered to them, the shop is saying they can't stand by the original, quoted labour as they are going to have to change over my manifold, engine mount brackets, and possibly even the pump as the '85 has a 'later-generation' OM617 that 'has electronics'. HUH. First I ever heard there was a difference between OM617s, any large difference anyway, within the w126 series cars. Someone enlighten me, please and thankee thankee. The basic engine could be exchanged using parts from the '82 engine. Offhand I can't think of any problems, but I'm not doing the swap. There are differences in that the '85 used an engine speed sensor that was on the flywheel rather than the damper, but the damper sensor remained and could be hooked up to the tach circuitry on you car. The '85 engine could use either the '82 or 85 torque converter and transmission, but an '82 engine can't use the assembly from an '85. Some of the vacuum EGR control stuff id different, but they can just be disabled. Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [MBZ] Differences between '82 and 84-85 OM617s?
My 85 300SD has a rack position sensor in the injection pump, as I recall this is used to control the EGR valve. I don't think it has any other electronics other than the control of the EGR valve, which I have disconnected. The intake manifold is different due to EGR valve but the one on the 85 can still be used. I am not sure about the transmission and torque converter. The OM617 in the 300D and the OM617 in the 300SD have a few differences, specifically I have noticed that the motor mount brackets are different and the oil filter canister is different. The oil filter canister on the 300D was designed for mechanical gauge while the 300SD has electronic. I have a 300D motor and transmission in a 500SEL W126. Of course I had to change the transmission tail shaft, cut drive shaft and some other minor modifications. Trampas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom Hargrave Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 2:01 AM To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' Subject: Re: [MBZ] Differences between '82 and 84-85 OM617s? 1985 was a transition year & there will be differences in the pump if the car uses electronic idle stabilization. I do know that there is a difference in the transmission that the shop may not have considered. The nose piece on the input shaft is a different size. & don't remember if the 85 is larger or the 82 is larger. If the 85 is larger, you might have a problem because the nose piece won't fit inside the crank pilot hole. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve MacSween Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 11:13 PM To: Mercedes List Subject: [MBZ] Differences between '82 and 84-85 OM617s? I have a *discussion* going on here with the shop that is doing the engine replacement on my 1982 w126 SD. I got an engine out of car I knew, slightly anyway, and drove once... an '85 w126 SD. Now that the donor car has been delivered to them, the shop is saying they can't stand by the original, quoted labour as they are going to have to change over my manifold, engine mount brackets, and possibly even the pump as the '85 has a 'later-generation' OM617 that 'has electronics'. HUH. First I ever heard there was a difference between OM617s, any large difference anyway, within the w126 series cars. Someone enlighten me, please and thankee thankee. -- "Mac" Steve MacSween Aylmer, Quebec (Canada) Mercedes: '82 300sd / '82 240d (x2) / '60 220s ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Differences between '82 and 84-85 OM617s?
1985 was a transition year & there will be differences in the pump if the car uses electronic idle stabilization. I do know that there is a difference in the transmission that the shop may not have considered. The nose piece on the input shaft is a different size. & don't remember if the 85 is larger or the 82 is larger. If the 85 is larger, you might have a problem because the nose piece won't fit inside the crank pilot hole. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve MacSween Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 11:13 PM To: Mercedes List Subject: [MBZ] Differences between '82 and 84-85 OM617s? I have a *discussion* going on here with the shop that is doing the engine replacement on my 1982 w126 SD. I got an engine out of car I knew, slightly anyway, and drove once... an '85 w126 SD. Now that the donor car has been delivered to them, the shop is saying they can't stand by the original, quoted labour as they are going to have to change over my manifold, engine mount brackets, and possibly even the pump as the '85 has a 'later-generation' OM617 that 'has electronics'. HUH. First I ever heard there was a difference between OM617s, any large difference anyway, within the w126 series cars. Someone enlighten me, please and thankee thankee. -- "Mac" Steve MacSween Aylmer, Quebec (Canada) Mercedes: '82 300sd / '82 240d (x2) / '60 220s ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Differences between '82 and 84-85 OM617s?
I've heard that the '85 cars have different torque converters and a different sized crank to accommodate it. Marshall WILL know for sure. The '85 engine and tC should mate to your tranny though. I'm surprised to hear of any electronics on an OM617.951, and one BIG attraction to these cars for me is the lack of computerization and, is this a word? overelectronicization. Kevin in Hillsboro Oregon 1983 300SD 284K miles, Ursula who started promptly in 40 deg. temps when being moved into position for her seat replacements
