Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I disagree. I think headlights should be left on at all times, as it helps other drivers see your car even in daylight, preventing people from pulling out too early, etc. Headlights are not bright enough to cause visibility problems for other drivers unless it is dark enough that they are needed anyways. When I buy a car that isn't wired to leave the headlights on at all times when the ignition is on, I wire up a relay so that they are. High quality optics, such as in the Hella H4 2D1 bulbs on my 240D do not glare in other drivers eyes, but they improve the visibility of the vehicle. If you can't see pedestrians, deer, and dogs over other drivers lights perhaps you should buy a set of H4s as well... Tyler On Nov 27, 2006, at 7:14 PM, Jim Cathey wrote: That is difficult to do, and half of the definition of 'glare' is the reduction in contrast of the _entire_ visual field due to scatter in the optics. (That would be your eye, and the windshield.) Dodge trucks and Subarus have the worst always-on fog lights IMHO. They're like baby high beams. I hate having anybody have headlights on until you can actually see the road better with them than without. That would be much later than most turn them on. Once there are headlights on in the area, things like pedestrians, deer, and dogs become almost invisible, yet I can barely see the effect of my lights on the ground. -- Jim -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (Darwin) iD8DBQFFa6yBt178NxI/higRApoWAKCU1AXlnjiQBCBj9j5uEdcAQjk8KgCeKFIH w5WtYlS1IAjr0HZC+9FVN8Y= =tGn8 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
of course, more simply, just don't look at the silly things! That is difficult to do, and half of the definition of 'glare' is the reduction in contrast of the _entire_ visual field due to scatter in the optics. (That would be your eye, and the windshield.) Dodge trucks and Subarus have the worst always-on fog lights IMHO. They're like baby high beams. I hate having anybody have headlights on until you can actually see the road better with them than without. That would be much later than most turn them on. Once there are headlights on in the area, things like pedestrians, deer, and dogs become almost invisible, yet I can barely see the effect of my lights on the ground. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
David, David Brodbeck wrote: > ernest breakfield wrote: > > > back to the point; since fog lights are additional light sources and > > aimed lower than > > headlights, fogs shouldn't cause any more "dazzle", and use of them does > > help increase > > conspicuity (especially those of a different color). > > Regardless of where they're aimed, they still represent two more > white-hot bulb filaments, which oncoming drivers have to look at. actually, any *decent* light has a shield that prevents you from seeing the filament, and (again, assuming a quality lamp) the light emanating from that lamp should be controlled such that the light is cast onto the ground. no driver should never be able to see the filament. any decent Fog Lamp has a beam pattern that's already even shorter and lower than the Low Beam and should make it even less of an issue than even the standard Low Beams. of course, more simply, just don't look at the silly things!;-p > That > was my point. Many fog lights are quite bright indeed; my J.C. Whitney > catalog lists 55 watt models, which makes them as bright as a standard > low-beam headlamp. heh, this may be one of the reasons for our different perspectives; i confess i wouldn't expect that anything out of a JC Sh*tney catalog could qualify as an example of a quality lamp.;-) > I think having 220 watts of lights on is an > excessive amount of glare if your goal is simply to make yourself > visible. Even if they're aimed properly, the bulbs still create a very > bright sight picture for oncoming drivers. let's clarify again; the key is the beam pattern, not the wattage. i've got more light wattage running full-time from larger (6.25" dia.) lamps on my motorcycle, and they're aimed so they're not an issue to oncoming traffic. sadly it's still not enough to keep people from "not seeing" me. i've also run significantly hotter bulbs in H4 lamps and they cast much less glare than low/stock quality DOT 35W low beams. decent quality lamps cast their light towards the ground (where it's supposed to be), and wouldn't be found objectionable by any standard i would consider reasonable. i would wholeheartedly agree that there are far too many poor-quailty lamps out there on vehicles of all makes and price points, but the issue isn't the power, it's the beam pattern control. > While this isn't going to > blind anyone during the day, it's unnecessary, and the same person will > probably run them constantly at night as well, where it's much more > troublesome. conjecture and/or already addressed; no further comment. > To make matters worse, some of these lights are tinted > blue, which creates even more scattering and glare than a normal headlamp. i completely agree; the misguided perception that blue lights are somehow better seems to be related to the advent of the early HIDs, which were imitated with cheap copies that pushed the blue tint as somehow being more effective, or in too many cases, just a matter of style. it would appear many of the people using these don't know/care that the blue light emanating from their lamps may give them the impression of being brighter, but in actuality probably impairs their visual acuity. (doesn't anyone remember how Blue-Blocker sunglasses would help improve detail? now people are paying extra to accessorize their vehicles with blue light... does anyone else find this odd?) > > Actually, that's exactly what you said: > > you wrote: > > "I believe this is because it could cause confusion about whether your car > > is in motion or > > parked." > > > > did you mean to say something other than what you actually wrote? > > please feel free to > > clarify. > > > > You're taking me out of context. That was part of a discussion about > why some states have laws prohibiting such things. But you seem more > interested in finding nits to pick than in debating the actual topic at > hand. you might need to go back and look at what you sent; you posted that in the context of: "states where it's illegal to drive with only your parking lights on...", which you later said: "I didn't say *I* believed people might be confused by them. I said I thought that was the rationale behind the law". what you posted seemed to be exactly what you later said you didn't say; that's why i invited you to clarify your apparent contradiction. clarification with the intent of better understand each other isn't usually a big deal for most people i deal with in a rational discussion. i was just trying to have a conversation on a topic of mutual interest; yet somehow you seem to find my paying attention to what you actually said and asking for clarification to avoid misunderstanding as justification for your being rude. frankly, it would appear you're incapable and/or disinterested in having the sort of discussion i'd hoped. your manner has made it much less likely i'
Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
Jeff Zedic wrote: > I know that I don't have any glare problems when I'm driving at night in the > UK. I still wonder why the USDOT wants us all to be blind at night! I think > they've based their syandard on some 50 year old nonsense..AGAIN! > That's pretty much it. They claim the European pattern is not optimal for the U.S. because it doesn't throw enough light upward to light overhead freeway signs. I suspect European highways have overhead signs as well, though, and they don't seem to have any problems. Mostly I suspect it's bureaucratic inertia. The problem has in some ways gotten worse since they started allowing aero headlights. At least with the old sealed-beams you knew what you were getting. Now beam patterns are all over the map, with some cars having acceptable ones and others being abysmal. (All of them meet the letter of the rather loose DOT specification, of course.) Now they're collecting glare complains about HID lights, with the idea they might have to do something to about those. I suspect the problem could be solved with a decent beam pattern, but I don't know if they're seriously examining that option or not.
Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
To make matters worse, some of these lights are tinted blue, which creates even more scattering and glare than a normal headlamp. Funny you should talk about glarethose DOT lamps are such total shitthe other day I was sitting in traffic and compred the beam pattern from my 124 Euro lights to the latest POS Merikan car next to me..I have this nice cutoff in the beam pattern and the USDOT lamp is a big smear all over tha back of the vehicle in front. I think that THIS beam pattern, as well as a lack of proper aiming, is the reason for the "dazzle" . My step father can no longer drive at night because there's so much glare from other people's headlights, that he can't see anything. He's 74. It's not just the riced out boy racers. Everyone has their stupid fog/driving amps on 24/7 and they STILL can't see what they're doing. I know that I don't have any glare problems when I'm driving at night in the UK. I still wonder why the USDOT wants us all to be blind at night! I think they've based their syandard on some 50 year old nonsense..AGAIN! Jeff Zedic Toronto
Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
I liked the pair of 100watters on my old truck, had them aimed right at the windshield of oncoming cars to cross at 100ft, when the Bimmer drivers (who all seem to like to leave the aux lights on all the time, aimed too high) got a shot of those they felt my pain. Those lights would throw a tightly focused beam at least a mile on the beach. --R (oops, my bad) David Brodbeck wrote: Many fog lights are quite bright indeed; my J.C. Whitney catalog lists 55 watt models, which makes them as bright as a standard low-beam headlamp. I think having 220 watts of lights on is an excessive amount of glare if your goal is simply to make yourself visible.
Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
ernest breakfield wrote: > back to the point; since fog lights are additional light sources and > aimed lower than > headlights, fogs shouldn't cause any more "dazzle", and use of them does help > increase > conspicuity (especially those of a different color). Regardless of where they're aimed, they still represent two more white-hot bulb filaments, which oncoming drivers have to look at. That was my point. Many fog lights are quite bright indeed; my J.C. Whitney catalog lists 55 watt models, which makes them as bright as a standard low-beam headlamp. I think having 220 watts of lights on is an excessive amount of glare if your goal is simply to make yourself visible. Even if they're aimed properly, the bulbs still create a very bright sight picture for oncoming drivers. While this isn't going to blind anyone during the day, it's unnecessary, and the same person will probably run them constantly at night as well, where it's much more troublesome. To make matters worse, some of these lights are tinted blue, which creates even more scattering and glare than a normal headlamp. > Actually, that's exactly what you said: > you wrote: > "I believe this is because it could cause confusion about whether your car is > in motion or > parked." > > did you mean to say something other than what you actually wrote? please > feel free to > clarify. > You're taking me out of context. That was part of a discussion about why some states have laws prohibiting such things. But you seem more interested in finding nits to pick than in debating the actual topic at hand.
Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
David, first, relax. David Brodbeck wrote: > ernest breakfield wrote: > > in general, you seem to be contradicting yourself WRT where you stand > > on use of lights; > > you complained headlights were too "dazzling" but suggest using them > > instead of > > running(/"parking") lights,... > > Where did I say that? My complaint was that using fogs *along with* > headlights was unnecessarily dazzling, if the goal is simply to make > yourself visible. Just because I believe DRLs are beneficial doesn't > mean I think that if a little is good, more is better. you wrote: "I don't see how running with fog lights will make your car any more visible to other motorists than having just your headlights on. Even when aimed properly, they still create another bright point source of light to dazzle oncoming drivers." "another" means 'one more', as in 'in addition to', implying that *both* the headlights and the fogs are "dazzling". if you meant something other than what you wrote, you're welcome to clarify. back to the point; since fog lights are additional light sources and aimed lower than headlights, fogs shouldn't cause any more "dazzle", and use of them does help increase conspicuity (especially those of a different color). i could see if i can find references to the studies again if you're interested in a discussion instead of an argument, but it's not new information. note: just to clarify, it seems necessary to point out that while it may be a bit much of me to expect it, for the sake of this discussion i am presuming that the lights we're discussing are aimed properly. of course, most any light can be misused to cause a problem. > > and also seem to contrarily claim both that > > running(/"parking") lights in the daytime are "too dim to be very attention > > getting", but > > that you believe people might be confused by them; how could they be > > confused if they're > > not getting their attention? > > > > I didn't say *I* believed people might be confused by them. I said I > thought that was the rationale behind the law prohibiting their use > while driving. Actually, that's exactly what you said: you wrote: "I believe this is because it could cause confusion about whether your car is in motion or parked." did you mean to say something other than what you actually wrote? please feel free to clarify. > You seem more interested in arguing with some imaginary version of what > I said than with what I've actually said. i'm just reading what you wrote; are you? if you're interested in a discussion or even just a sharing of opinions and simply meant to say something other than what you actually wrote, i'd welcome you to clarify. i understand that we all don't always necessarily say exactly what we mean the first try, and you should feel free to make it clear what you actually meant. if you prefer an argument, i would invite you to look elsewhere... but before you start throwing stones, i would suggest that you might want to at least pay attention to what's actually being said (including/especially to what *you're* writing) or you're likely to wind up even more frustrated. regards, e
Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
ernest breakfield wrote: > in general, you seem to be contradicting yourself WRT where you stand on > use of lights; > you complained headlights were too "dazzling" but suggest using them instead > of > running(/"parking") lights,... Where did I say that? My complaint was that using fogs *along with* headlights was unnecessarily dazzling, if the goal is simply to make yourself visible. Just because I believe DRLs are beneficial doesn't mean I think that if a little is good, more is better. > and also seem to contrarily claim both that > running(/"parking") lights in the daytime are "too dim to be very attention > getting", but > that you believe people might be confused by them; how could they be confused > if they're > not getting their attention? > I didn't say *I* believed people might be confused by them. I said I thought that was the rationale behind the law prohibiting their use while driving. You seem more interested in arguing with some imaginary version of what I said than with what I've actually said.
Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
hi david! note that in the text you quoted i was referring to running(/"parking") lights, not headlights. FWIW, CA is one of the states that still has the law against daytime use of running(/"parking") lights in the daytime (though it's both difficult and rarely enforced), left over from another misguided effort to protect motorists from themselves by keeping them from thinking that they had their headlights on because their dash was lit... duh! (this could be taken as another example of the low level of competence to be expected of our fellow Amerikun motorists.) you make my point that driving with running(/"parking") lights on couldn't be an issue, so using them to benefit low-light situations can't be an issue and there shouldn't be any objection to their daylight use. frankly, i don't have much sympathy for anyone who is going to think that a vehicle is parked in a traffic lane because they see lights on it (especially lights that are "too dim to be very attention getting")! let's hope for their sake they don't think that next time they're facing an oncoming Peterbilt/Kenworth/Camaro/Corvette/etc.! then again, if they're that easily confused, some might argue that we should let Darwinism take it's course... ;-) as for DRL circuits activating running(/"parking") lights, why would/should they? who cares who jumps out *behind* you? pity they don't, though; DRLs don't do anything to make you more visible in the shadows or under overcast to the vehicles following you. IIRC, some vehicles i've rented here and abroad actually deactivate the DRLs when the running(/"parking") lights are switched on; apparently, running(/"parking") lights are considered enough. in general, you seem to be contradicting yourself WRT where you stand on use of lights; you complained headlights were too "dazzling" but suggest using them instead of running(/"parking") lights,... and also seem to contrarily claim both that running(/"parking") lights in the daytime are "too dim to be very attention getting", but that you believe people might be confused by them; how could they be confused if they're not getting their attention? cheers! e David Brodbeck wrote: > I don't know of any states where it's illegal to drive with your > headlights on during the day. There *are* states where it's illegal to > drive with only your parking lights on. I believe this is because it > could cause confusion about whether your car is in motion or parked. > Generally I feel it's silly to drive with only parking lights on, when > turning your headlights on as well will improve your visibility even > more. Most cars have parking lights that are too dim to be very > attention getting during the day, anyway. In fact, most cars I'm > familiar with that use the headlights as DRLs do *not* also activate the > parking lights. ernest breakfield wrote: > daytime use of running lights (what you and many Amerikuns call "parking > lights") > helps make you more easily seen in shadows of trees or buildings, on overcast > days, > under bridges and overpasses, etc.. since it's not likely anyone could > complain that > those are "dazzling", i don't see how anyone could have any objection to > daytime use > of them and generally practice that myself. more oddly, this is illegal in at > least > some states, but not in others...? >
Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
ernest breakfield wrote: > daytime use of running lights (what you and many Amerikuns call "parking > lights") > helps make you more easily seen in shadows of trees or buildings, on overcast > days, > under bridges and overpasses, etc.. since it's not likely anyone could > complain that > those are "dazzling", i don't see how anyone could have any objection to > daytime use > of them and generally practice that myself. more oddly, this is illegal in at > least > some states, but not in others...? > I don't know of any states where it's illegal to drive with your headlights on during the day. There *are* states where it's illegal to drive with only your parking lights on. I believe this is because it could cause confusion about whether your car is in motion or parked. Generally I feel it's silly to drive with only parking lights on, when turning your headlights on as well will improve your visibility even more. Most cars have parking lights that are too dim to be very attention getting during the day, anyway. In fact, most cars I'm familiar with that use the headlights as DRLs do *not* also activate the parking lights.
Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
hi David! we seem to have a lack of common understanding of what "quality" lamps or "aimed properly" means; with the exception of High Beams, properly aimed quality lights will not "dazzle" anyone. (in my last post i'm forgetting that quality lamps aren't what most of our US cars came with and not everyone is familiar with how good lights can be compared to DOT junk; i've been using H4 sealed bulb lamps in all my vehicles for years and the DOT lights almost immediately go in the trash.) more lights that don't "dazzle" an oncoming motorist are simply more lights to make that motorist aware of you and judge your position by, and more different colors of lights (like what many of our MBZs have) make it that much more likely that you'll be noticed. sadly, we share the roads with some truly poor drivers in the US; while you might have perfect vision and never miss a thing, just ask any firefighter or ambulance driver how often people will pull out of their rigs even with their full lights flashing! daytime use of running lights (what you and many Amerikuns call "parking lights") helps make you more easily seen in shadows of trees or buildings, on overcast days, under bridges and overpasses, etc.. since it's not likely anyone could complain that those are "dazzling", i don't see how anyone could have any objection to daytime use of them and generally practice that myself. more oddly, this is illegal in at least some states, but not in others...? as an example of how non-universal your opinion might be, take notice that once Amerika got wise to the BS of low-power high beams as activated as Daytime Running Lights, manufacturers of many vehicle (including everything from Corvettes to tractor trailers) set up their vehicles to use the front running/parking lights full-time. cheers! e David Brodbeck wrote: > > I don't see how running with fog lights will make your car any more > visible to other motorists than having just your headlights on. Even > when aimed properly, they still create another bright point source of > light to dazzle oncoming drivers. > > My personal nomination for the dumbest use of lighting, though, are > people who drive around with just their parking lights on.
Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
hi Brian! sounds like in your first example you were looking at the use of a Euro-style parking light (like what 123s have, for example). in the second you were looking at the (improper) use of a rear fog light. cheers! e Zoltan Finks wrote: > Recently as I was on vacation at a nice resort in Sedona, I noticed that one > of the batch of new Mercedes Benzes in the parking lot had its left hand > parking light on most of the day, and all night. > > I'm assuming that the light control switch is the same as it is on the older > models (MB seems to keep many things the same in terms of interior > equipment, which is really interesting to me). And it's quite easy when > turning off the headlights to turn the switch one click too far, resulting > in this embarrassing condition. > > Tonight as we drove, we saw a new MB on the highway in front of us and it > had an extra red light on on the driver side rear (inboard from the running > lamps in the tail light assy, these were the light assys. in the trunk lid). > We assumed the boo boo was taking place. But later I realized we were > probably wrong, because they had their headlights on, and so I don't know > what this red light on the driver side was, besides distracting. > > I caught my wife making the boo boo the other day too. Any of you out there > relate? > > Brian > 83 240D
Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
part of the confusion here seems to be due to the Amerikun definition of "Parking Lights"; to most of the world, Parking Lights are the lights that light up only one front and one rear lamp on the selected side of the vehicle, and are meant to be used when parked with one part of the vehicle partially exposed to passing motorists. what most Amerikuns call "Parking Lights" are Running Lights in many urban areas in the rest of the world; when local lighting makes headlights unnecessary, in some municipalities, headlights are even illegal. FWIW, my '85 123 does have an audible alarm that's activated if i open the door and have any lights *other* than the Parking Lights lit. cheers! e Mitch Haley wrote: > > > > > > Yes, Brian! My dad tends to do it on a regular basis, and only notices it > > upon returning to the car. It's a good thing that the battery doesn't drain > > quickly when this happens! > > Methinks you need an audible alarm (ding-ding-ding) when the driver's door is > open and one of the parking lamps is powered. My Taurus does it when the key > is in the ignition or the headlight switch isn't off.
Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
ernest breakfield wrote: > properly adjusted quality front fog lights wouldn't blind anyone, and add a > great deal to the conspicuity of your vehicle in traffic (with or without > fog). > given the caliber of our average fellow motorists as evidenced by what they > will pull out of and then claim they "didn't see", almost anything could be > justified as necessary. > I don't see how running with fog lights will make your car any more visible to other motorists than having just your headlights on. Even when aimed properly, they still create another bright point source of light to dazzle oncoming drivers. My personal nomination for the dumbest use of lighting, though, are people who drive around with just their parking lights on.
Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
properly adjusted quality front fog lights wouldn't blind anyone, and add a great deal to the conspicuity of your vehicle in traffic (with or without fog). given the caliber of our average fellow motorists as evidenced by what they will pull out of and then claim they "didn't see", almost anything could be justified as necessary. of course, many (perhaps most,) Amerikun cars have lamps that i would not qualify as "quality", and could quite likely be glaring enough to be distracting to some,... but we can simply not look *at* them. rear fog lights aren't common enough here yet that most Amerikuns would know what they are (to the point that many people using them don't even know they have them, or let alone, are using them!), and would only be confusing to fellow motorists. of course, again, if they get that average Amerikun to be paying *any* more attention, that again could be considered a Good Thing. (frankly, i find them annoying unless conditions make them necessary, and then appreciate them.) cheers! e Tony Wirtel wrote: > And its an annoyingly American thing to leave fogs on all the time, > even when there isn't fog for 500 miles. Seems people think hey look, > I have fog lights and am kool. And hey, if front fogs to blind the > public are cool running the rear fogs is more cooler. > > Have no clue that 95% of fogs are almost perfectly useless, projecting > a light pattern that doesn't do anything if going more then say > 10-15MPH. On many cars (insert any Dodge or Pontiac I've driven) > decorative only. > > Tony Wirtel
Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
Perhaps my fogs are not focused properly (but I think they are.) I like the how they illuminate beyond the edge of the road - even past the fence line. At moderate speeds I can spot deer eyes and movement far sooner with fogs than with regular head lights. Of course at super highways speeds this use of fogs would not be useful. Properly aimed they do illuminate the ditches. But again, it's awfully hard to avoid anything you see with them at more than a few mph. The lights should be aimed lower than your low beams. If they're not, you might as well just use the highs, especially as regards the effect on the eyes of oncoming drivers. For deer finding, the 400W high beams of our 450 SL do work well! -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
Jim: Perhaps my fogs are not focused properly (but I think they are.) I like the how they illuminate beyond the edge of the road - even past the fence line. At moderate speeds I can spot deer eyes and movement far sooner with fogs than with regular head lights. Of course at super highways speeds this use of fogs would not be useful. They [fogs] really help me spot those spooked deer on country roads right after dusk. < How? If adjusted right they only light up a fan-shaped area in front of the car, such that if you were going any faster than that 10-15 MPH there's no way you could avoid anything that was lit by them anyway.> Ned
Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
With a 1988 126 model, I find the (front) fog lights assist in seeing anything when its dark. The US DOT headlights are a poor excuse for lighting (as so many here have opined in the past). Like you, I use the fogs to help me see the edge of certain roads and when it is wet, for the same reason. As for rear fogs, the only real experience I have is as a driver behind someone who seems to think if fog lights should be on in the front, they should also be on in the back - especially when there is no fog! I was behind a Jaguar and then a Volvo with the rear fogs on. They were blindingly bright. Finally, I was forced to pull over to let someone else get a sunburn from them. Mark __ Mark E. Peneguy 420SEL, 217k New Orleans [EMAIL PROTECTED] David Brodbeck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I used to think the fog light pattern was useless until I learned what it's for. The idea is not to illuminate objects down the road. It's to project a wide, flat beam of light that will illuminate the lane markings just in front of the car, without causing much backscatter glare. They're meant to be used when conditions are so bad that you're having trouble tracking where the road edges are. Besides fog, I find they're also sometimes useful in heavy rain, where spray from trucks and cars and overall poor contrast can make it very hard to see lane markings. Reflective road paint doesn't seem to reflect very well when it's wet. Using fogs in that situation seems to help me track my lane position better with my peripheral vision, so I can look farther down the road instead of having to stare just in front of the car. The best advice I ever heard for determining when to use a *rear* fog light is, "Turn it on when you find yourself wishing the guy in front of you had his on so you could see him better."
Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
Brian said he was: "fending off "tourist information" solicitors." That's what stinks about going up to Sedona. They are everywhere...like rap artists. Bob Rentfro
Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
Tony Wirtel wrote: > Have no clue that 95% of fogs are almost perfectly useless, projecting > a light pattern that doesn't do anything if going more then say > 10-15MPH. On many cars (insert any Dodge or Pontiac I've driven) > decorative only I used to think the fog light pattern was useless until I learned what it's for. The idea is not to illuminate objects down the road. It's to project a wide, flat beam of light that will illuminate the lane markings just in front of the car, without causing much backscatter glare. They're meant to be used when conditions are so bad that you're having trouble tracking where the road edges are. Besides fog, I find they're also sometimes useful in heavy rain, where spray from trucks and cars and overall poor contrast can make it very hard to see lane markings. Reflective road paint doesn't seem to reflect very well when it's wet. Using fogs in that situation seems to help me track my lane position better with my peripheral vision, so I can look farther down the road instead of having to stare just in front of the car. The best advice I ever heard for determining when to use a *rear* fog light is, "Turn it on when you find yourself wishing the guy in front of you had his on so you could see him better."
Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
Thanks to wife's business trip, we were at the Hilton resort/spa in Oak Creek. Made our way into Sedona for hiking, dining, window shopping, fending off "tourist information" solicitors. Was good to be back in my native AZ. Brian On 11/26/06, Bob Rentfro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Where were you in Sedona, Brian? Bob R - Original Message - From: "Zoltan Finks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 2:45 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners > Ha. Yeah, Jeff, I've been here a spell now, but I don't know much about > the > new MBs, and I'll be the first to admit that there's a mega-ton that I > don't > know - period - especially compared to some of the veritable gurus here. > When I don't know, I ask questions. > > I thought fog lamps would be amber, not red. And why would just one side > be > lit? > > Bear in mind that I've found it useful in life sometimes to ask questions > that may sound stupid. It's often the quickest path to the answer. This, > unfortunately, irritates some folks, but I do always have a purpose in > mind. > > > I wonder if it would be useful to have a beginner's-list and a > seasoned-list? Those seasoned-folks that felt charitable enough to read > the > beginner's list could provide us with help, and the rest could be free > from > newbie questions. But until that takes place I guess we all have to grin > and > bear eachother. > > Brian > > On 11/26/06, Jeff Zedic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> Brian, >> >> I'm surprised you're asking this question as you've been here long enough >> to >> know a rear fog lamp when you see one!! >> >> Jeff Zedic >> Toronto >> ___ >> http://www.okiebenz.com >> For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ >> For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: >> http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com >> > ___ > http://www.okiebenz.com > For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ > For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: > http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
we use them for spotting deer also. ours are adjusted properly and we seem to get some bounce that illuminates stuff along the edge of the road - not brightly but the deers eyes certainly light up. But it's more light bouncing than actually targeting the edge of the road. My wife comes home at night often and there's a LOT of deer around here - as most places - and after hitting one at 55 in our W123 we knew we never want to do it again. That time those it happened so fast there was no way to avoid him/her. Saw a flash of brown and the hood crumpled. Never saw anything coming - and I try to stay aware of things happening around me as I drive. Have a noice Sunday - Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . - Original Message - From: "Jim Cathey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 12:15 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners They [fogs] really help me spot those spooked deer on country roads right after dusk. How? If adjusted right they only light up a fan-shaped area in front of the car, such that if you were going any faster than that 10-15 MPH there's no way you could avoid anything that was lit by them anyway. I find them useful under conditions where I am tempted to roll the window down and stick my head out so that I can see better. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.16/552 - Release Date: 11/26/2006
Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
They [fogs] really help me spot those spooked deer on country roads right after dusk. How? If adjusted right they only light up a fan-shaped area in front of the car, such that if you were going any faster than that 10-15 MPH there's no way you could avoid anything that was lit by them anyway. I find them useful under conditions where I am tempted to roll the window down and stick my head out so that I can see better. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
At this time of year, I often drive with my front fogs on, and not to be kool or annoying. They really help me spot those spooked deer on country roads right after dusk. My 124's have the single rear fog (no benefit on clear nights), but I don't think my 123's do that trick. Ned Kleinhenz '95 E300D x2 '85 300D '80 300TD
Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
Also in may places illegal to run if there is no fog. Tony Wirtel wrote: Sunil wrote the rear fog light is a European thing - pull out the headlight knob once for front fog lights, pull again for rear. And its an annoyingly American thing to leave fogs on all the time, even when there isn't fog for 500 miles. Seems people think hey look, I have fog lights and am kool. And hey, if front fogs to blind the public are cool running the rear fogs is more cooler. Have no clue that 95% of fogs are almost perfectly useless, projecting a light pattern that doesn't do anything if going more then say 10-15MPH. On many cars (insert any Dodge or Pontiac I've driven) decorative only. Tony Wirtel ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK 91 300D 2.5 Turbo, 90 420SEL, 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 87 300SDL #2, 85 380SE 5.0 Euro, 84 190D 2.2, 84 190D 2.2 #2, 81 240D, 76 240D, 76 300D, 72 250C, 69 250 http://www.striplin.net
Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
> > > > Methinks you need an audible alarm (ding-ding-ding) when the driver's > > door is open and one of the parking lamps is powered. My Taurus does > > it when the key is in the ignition or the headlight switch isn't off. > > Thus defeating the purpose of the all-night parking light. (A Euro > thing.) I don't think it defeats it. With the Taurus, if I WANT to leave the lights on, I just get out, close the door, and the alarm quits chiming. The trick is to only have the alarm function when the door is open.
Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
Yes, Brian! My dad tends to do it on a regular basis, and only notices it upon returning to the car. It's a good thing that the battery doesn't drain quickly when this happens! Methinks you need an audible alarm (ding-ding-ding) when the driver's door is open and one of the parking lamps is powered. My Taurus does it when the key is in the ignition or the headlight switch isn't off. Thus defeating the purpose of the all-night parking light. (A Euro thing.) Most MB's newer than the 70's already have the warning buzzer hooked to the parking light circuit. I'm sure with a little work the existing buzzer could be moved to the marker light settings instead. Maybe cutting a wire and putting in a couple of diodes behind the dash. IIRC, that parking function is pretty intimately associated with the light switch and not just a matter of moving a wire or two. One could also pursue rearranging the mechanical stop inside the switch itself to block off those two settings. Neither approach would be trivial. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
I thought fog lamps would be amber, not red. Nope, red. And why would just one side be lit? So as not to be mistaken for the brake lights in those intermittent not-quite-so-foggy patches. If it's not foggy, you shouldn't be using fog lights! (And don't get me started on that. The number of people who seem to be searching for lost contact lenses in front of their car at speed is truly bewildering.) I added a rear fog to our for-sale 450 SL. That took some doing. One or two of our cars came with them, such as the Frankenheap. I would have added it to the SDL, but its light switch has pins not screw contacts, and the pins for the rear fog function aren't there. It wasn't worth it to me to pursue buying a new light switch and perhaps socket, on top of all the rest of the work. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
Zoltan Finks wrote: Recently as I was on vacation at a nice resort in Sedona, I noticed that one of the batch of new Mercedes Benzes in the parking lot had its left hand parking light on most of the day, and all night. I'm assuming that the light control switch is the same as it is on the older models (MB seems to keep many things the same in terms of interior equipment, which is really interesting to me). And it's quite easy when turning off the headlights to turn the switch one click too far, resulting in this embarrassing condition. Tonight as we drove, we saw a new MB on the highway in front of us and it had an extra red light on on the driver side rear (inboard from the running lamps in the tail light assy, these were the light assys. in the trunk lid). We assumed the boo boo was taking place. But later I realized we were probably wrong, because they had their headlights on, and so I don't know what this red light on the driver side was, besides distracting. A bright red tail light on the left side is the rear "fog light" that is required in many European countries. They are present on many more recent Mercedes models and some older European models (my '85 Euro 190D has a rear left fog light illuminated when the headlight switch is pulled out TWO notches) Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
Where were you in Sedona, Brian? Bob R - Original Message - From: "Zoltan Finks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 2:45 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners Ha. Yeah, Jeff, I've been here a spell now, but I don't know much about the new MBs, and I'll be the first to admit that there's a mega-ton that I don't know - period - especially compared to some of the veritable gurus here. When I don't know, I ask questions. I thought fog lamps would be amber, not red. And why would just one side be lit? Bear in mind that I've found it useful in life sometimes to ask questions that may sound stupid. It's often the quickest path to the answer. This, unfortunately, irritates some folks, but I do always have a purpose in mind. I wonder if it would be useful to have a beginner's-list and a seasoned-list? Those seasoned-folks that felt charitable enough to read the beginner's list could provide us with help, and the rest could be free from newbie questions. But until that takes place I guess we all have to grin and bear eachother. Brian On 11/26/06, Jeff Zedic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Brian, I'm surprised you're asking this question as you've been here long enough to know a rear fog lamp when you see one!! Jeff Zedic Toronto ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
Sunil wrote the rear fog light is a European thing - pull out the headlight knob once for front fog lights, pull again for rear. And its an annoyingly American thing to leave fogs on all the time, even when there isn't fog for 500 miles. Seems people think hey look, I have fog lights and am kool. And hey, if front fogs to blind the public are cool running the rear fogs is more cooler. Have no clue that 95% of fogs are almost perfectly useless, projecting a light pattern that doesn't do anything if going more then say 10-15MPH. On many cars (insert any Dodge or Pontiac I've driven) decorative only. Tony Wirtel
Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
the rear fog light is a European thing - pull out the headlight knob once for front fog lights, pull again for rear. On 11/26/06, kevin kraly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I didn't know about the red rear fog lamps either, and I've been on this list for 4 years now. I guess I'll never "see" the LIGHT! Kevin in Hillsboro Oregon 1983 300SD 284K miles, Ursula ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Sunil Hari 1992 300D 2.5T - 290Kmi. [EMAIL PROTECTED] 513-205-7474
Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
I didn't know about the red rear fog lamps either, and I've been on this list for 4 years now. I guess I'll never "see" the LIGHT! Kevin in Hillsboro Oregon 1983 300SD 284K miles, Ursula
Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
My Taurus does it when the key is in the ignition or the headlight switch isn't off. He does this with our Dodge pickup that also has the audible alarm. He accidentally turns on the cargo light which can't be seen due to the camper shell (canopy for us in the PNW). He couldn't figure out why it was dinging the first time it happened. I guess I'd better get the canopy wired so that the cargo light switch powers up that light along with the one on the cab as it is suppose to. Kevin in Hillsboro Oregon 1983 300SD 284K miles, Ursula
Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
Ha. Yeah, Jeff, I've been here a spell now, but I don't know much about the new MBs, and I'll be the first to admit that there's a mega-ton that I don't know - period - especially compared to some of the veritable gurus here. When I don't know, I ask questions. I thought fog lamps would be amber, not red. And why would just one side be lit? Bear in mind that I've found it useful in life sometimes to ask questions that may sound stupid. It's often the quickest path to the answer. This, unfortunately, irritates some folks, but I do always have a purpose in mind. I wonder if it would be useful to have a beginner's-list and a seasoned-list? Those seasoned-folks that felt charitable enough to read the beginner's list could provide us with help, and the rest could be free from newbie questions. But until that takes place I guess we all have to grin and bear eachother. Brian On 11/26/06, Jeff Zedic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Brian, I'm surprised you're asking this question as you've been here long enough to know a rear fog lamp when you see one!! Jeff Zedic Toronto ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
> > > Yes, Brian! My dad tends to do it on a regular basis, and only notices it > upon returning to the car. It's a good thing that the battery doesn't drain > quickly when this happens! Methinks you need an audible alarm (ding-ding-ding) when the driver's door is open and one of the parking lamps is powered. My Taurus does it when the key is in the ignition or the headlight switch isn't off.
Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
Brian, I'm surprised you're asking this question as you've been here long enough to know a rear fog lamp when you see one!! Jeff Zedic Toronto
Re: [MBZ] Funny boo boo among MB owners
Yes, Brian! My dad tends to do it on a regular basis, and only notices it upon returning to the car. It's a good thing that the battery doesn't drain quickly when this happens! I've gotten better at reminding him of it as we get out of the car, but if not, I can't see it to let him know that he's done it again! Kevin in Hillsboro Oregon 1983 300SD 284K miles, Ursula
