Re: [MBZ] It's always something

2015-07-13 Thread Curly McLain via Mercedes
My neighbor gave me a fairly nice 10 year old john Deere made Scott 
mower that is a fairly heavy duty model with 54 deck, took care of 
my need to buy a new mower. It was using about a quart of oil an 
hour. It has a Kohler command engine and quick search turns up it 
had bad head gasket or 2. I ordered the head gasket set a while back 
and tore it down today. The right side was leaking/burning for sure. 
Left side was not. Everything was going nice and smooth until I was 
using torque wrench on last head nut on the 2nd head and snap, damn 
head stud snapped. I don't know if I had the torque wrench set 
wrong, or what. I did pull the head back off and there is these 
metal collars on the base of the studs in that side of the head that 
sort of hold the gasket in a certain position. They were somewhat 
bent so I'm not sure if it was tightened too much bent them, or if 
the head was not down over them all the way or what. I think bottom 
line I must not have had the torque set right. I ordered a stud 
extractor and new stud but it will be next week before it shows up.


Always something.

Sent from my MB Yunker Phone


Don't look a gift

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Re: [MBZ] It's always something...

2010-07-12 Thread R A Bennell
I remember shooting an old battery with a 12 gauge shotgun back when I was a 
young fellow. It was probably 50 or
more feet away from me at the time and pieces of it landed behind me.

Randy

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com
[mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]on Behalf Of Dieselhead
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 7:48 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] It's always something...


No.  The battery that blew on me was from an external spark.  the
invisible flame went inside the battery.  The battery jumped up about
a foot to eye level as it blew up  in my face.


There must have been hydrogen gas and a spark.  The hydrogen gas
may have been in the battery box from when she was driving the car.
The spark came when she tried to start the car.

H2 had to be inside the battery, as did the spark.  The box was
just fine, but the battery case itself was fractured.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] It's always something...

2010-07-12 Thread LWB250
When I did generator work we used to see battery explosions with some 
regularity.  Here's why:

When the electrolyte gets low in the battery (from being constantly charged, as 
stationary duty batteries are) the tops of the plates get exposed.  When a 
large load is applied to the battery, as in when the engine cranks, there can 
be a spark or arc across the exposed plates.

Since there is most likely some hydrogen present in the cells, this ignites, 
causing a pretty spectacular explosion that usually rips the top of the battery 
off.

A good reason to be checking the electrolyte levels on a regular basis.

I haven't found this to be as much of an issue in automotive applications, 
probably because the batteries in such an application aren't on a charger 100% 
of the time like a stationary engine battery is.

Dan


--- On Mon, 7/12/10, R A Bennell b...@mts.net wrote:

 From: R A Bennell b...@mts.net
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] It's always something...
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Date: Monday, July 12, 2010, 2:48 PM
 I remember shooting an old battery
 with a 12 gauge shotgun back when I was a young fellow. It
 was probably 50 or
 more feet away from me at the time and pieces of it landed
 behind me.
 
 Randy
 
 -Original Message-
 From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com
 [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]on
 Behalf Of Dieselhead
 Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 7:48 AM
 To: Mercedes Discussion List
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] It's always something...
 
 
 No.  The battery that blew on me was from an external
 spark.  the
 invisible flame went inside the battery.  The battery
 jumped up about
 a foot to eye level as it blew up  in my face.
 
 
 There must have been hydrogen gas and a
 spark.  The hydrogen gas
 may have been in the battery box from when she was
 driving the car.
 The spark came when she tried to start the car.
 
 H2 had to be inside the battery, as did the
 spark.  The box was
 just fine, but the battery case itself was fractured.
 
 -- Jim
 
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] It's always something...

2010-07-10 Thread Mitch Haley

Jim Cathey wrote:


H2 had to be inside the battery, as did the spark.  The box was
just fine, but the battery case itself was fractured.


Break in an internal bus bar in the battery?
Hit the starter and turn the battery into an arc welder.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] It's always something...

2010-07-10 Thread Jim Cathey

Break in an internal bus bar in the battery?
Hit the starter and turn the battery into an arc welder.


Had to be that, it's consistent with the earlier behavior.
The battery had suddenly been acting 'weak', it could
barely turn over the car, yet the voltage was just
fine and it took a charge 'normally'.  But if one of
the cells was running at half capacity, or less, and
then made contact across the break with a fully-charged
set of plates in the cell, in an atmosphere of H2/O2
freed by excessive discharge (or charge) caused by the
normal currents being forced into a small area by the
break and the other five (strong) cells...

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] It's always something...

2010-07-10 Thread Jim Cathey

The jouncing the car took during Jill's off-road adventure (see
http://userweb.windwireless.net/~jimc/JSL2log.html#14Sep2008) was
probably ultimately responsible for this, though it was only
yesterday that I noticed anything odd about the battery.

That battery had had a hard life, what with the parasitic drain
issues, the eventual alternator strike, and the bouncing around.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] It's always something...

2010-07-10 Thread WILTON

And only 8 years?;

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Jim Cathey j...@windwireless.net

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2010 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] It's always something...



The jouncing the car took during Jill's off-road adventure (see
http://userweb.windwireless.net/~jimc/JSL2log.html#14Sep2008) was
probably ultimately responsible for this, though it was only
yesterday that I noticed anything odd about the battery.

That battery had had a hard life, what with the parasitic drain
issues, the eventual alternator strike, and the bouncing around.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] It's always something...

2010-07-10 Thread Dieselhead
No.  The battery that blew on me was from an external spark.  the 
invisible flame went inside the battery.  The battery jumped up about 
a foot to eye level as it blew up  in my face.



There must have been hydrogen gas and a spark.  The hydrogen gas 
may have been in the battery box from when she was driving the car. 
The spark came when she tried to start the car.


H2 had to be inside the battery, as did the spark.  The box was
just fine, but the battery case itself was fractured.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] It's always something...

2010-07-09 Thread Jim Cathey

Jill called me at lunch from the library parking lot, and said that the
560SL battery (that went through Hell with the alternator incident) made
a big 'pop' noise when she went to start the car, and fluid started
dripping out of the back.  (It also wouldn't start, and had been
getting difficult to start recently, and could sometimes barely turn
over though the voltage and charge state always seemed OK.)  Sheesh!
I got there and opened it up, and the newly-repaired battery box had
contained all the acid from the 8-year-old NAPA battery's case blowing
open!  It had cracks and fractures all over the place, and had leaked
thoroughly.  We got a pan of water and sluiced it off before lifting
it out onto the ground, and diluted the acid stream that was running
away from the car.  I put the battery on one of the rubber winter
floor mats in the trunk of my car, and we went off to Les Schwab where
we bought another Group 49 battery for $108.  (I washed off the floor
mat with their hose.)  It installed easily enough into the car, but
the cables didn't reach well and I didn't have time to fuss with it.
(It's possible that the new battery is a bit shorter than the old
one.)  It got her home, anyway, but the car wouldn't start again
because the positive cable had popped off sometime along the way.  The
battery box and the lid have some new cracks in them, so I'll have to
do some more gluing too.

Exploding battery, that's a first for me.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] It's always something...

2010-07-09 Thread Mitch Haley

Jim Cathey wrote:


Exploding battery, that's a first for me.


And, IIRC, charging voltage was reasonable when you tested it.
I'd still test the charging just to be safe.

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] It's always something...

2010-07-09 Thread Dieselhead
I had a battery on a piece of equipment blow up in my face many moons 
ago.  We had jumped the battery, and when we disconnected the 
jumpers, the spark ignited the hydrogen gas from the battery, which 
was now charging.
Ever since then, I am very careful to hook up the last connection as 
a ground far away from the dead battery, and it is the first one to 
be disconnected.


There must have been hydrogen gas and a spark.  The hydrogen gas may 
have been in the battery box from when she was driving the car.  The 
spark came when she tried to start the car.






Jill called me at lunch from the library parking lot, and said that the
560SL battery (that went through Hell with the alternator incident) made
a big 'pop' noise when she went to start the car, and fluid started
dripping out of the back.  (It also wouldn't start, and had been
getting difficult to start recently, and could sometimes barely turn
over though the voltage and charge state always seemed OK.)  Sheesh!
I got there and opened it up, and the newly-repaired battery box had
contained all the acid from the 8-year-old NAPA battery's case blowing
open!  It had cracks and fractures all over the place, and had leaked
thoroughly.  We got a pan of water and sluiced it off before lifting
it out onto the ground, and diluted the acid stream that was running
away from the car.  I put the battery on one of the rubber winter
floor mats in the trunk of my car, and we went off to Les Schwab where
we bought another Group 49 battery for $108.  (I washed off the floor
mat with their hose.)  It installed easily enough into the car, but
the cables didn't reach well and I didn't have time to fuss with it.
(It's possible that the new battery is a bit shorter than the old
one.)  It got her home, anyway, but the car wouldn't start again
because the positive cable had popped off sometime along the way.  The
battery box and the lid have some new cracks in them, so I'll have to
do some more gluing too.

Exploding battery, that's a first for me.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] It's always something...

2010-07-09 Thread Jim Cathey

Exploding battery, that's a first for me.


And, IIRC, charging voltage was reasonable when you tested it.
I'd still test the charging just to be safe.


It was 14.03V when I tested it after putting the new one in.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] It's always something...

2010-07-09 Thread Jim Cathey
There must have been hydrogen gas and a spark.  The hydrogen gas may 
have been in the battery box from when she was driving the car.  The 
spark came when she tried to start the car.


H2 had to be inside the battery, as did the spark.  The box was
just fine, but the battery case itself was fractured.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] It's always something...

2010-07-01 Thread Jim Cathey

Reassembly time!  I cleaned the shafts of the rotor and put it in the
freezer, and put the bearings and housings in the shop oven at 200
degrees F.  They just slid together after that, with only a little
tapping with a hammer and some deep sockets to seat the bearings fully
in place on the rotor.  You definitely want to make sure to remember
to put the captive retention plate on the front shaft _before_ you put
on the bearing!  The body reassembled easily then, the worst part was
getting the little half-round key into the shaft's notch.  It is
interesting that the belt pulley is two separate sheaves, I didn't
notice that before.  The alternator spins smoothly and quietly now,
it's nice.  I then put it back in the car, nothing special about that
procedure.

I checked the fit of the battery in the box, and I found that with the
red plastic spacer board in place the lid didn't even come close to
fitting down over the sealing lip of the box, which explains how it
had gotten so broken up: they'd tried to buckle down the lid but it
wouldn't go, and they tried forcing it.  I imagine that what had
happened is that at some point someone had put in an incorrect
battery, a small cheap one rather than the correct (and rather large)
Group 49, and that the cables didn't reach the posts so they'd put a
board in to lift the battery up a bit to reach the cables.  Later,
when the correct battery was installed, the board was not removed.
With that all figured out I then wiped the battery compartment clean
with a damp rag and reinstalled the newly-repaired battery box, then
the battery.  As I've found before, the hardest part was getting the
positive grommet back in the box.  I touched up the paint on the
buckles, etc., and reinstalled the hatch cover and the buckles.

To maintain the clocks, etc. the car's been on the battery charger
this whole time, but set at 6 V to keep the voltage peaks down since
the battery wasn't there to serve as a filter.  Seems to have worked,
anyhow.

I was going to put the used front bearing into the junk alternator
that's been underfoot for quite some time, only to find that it's not
the front bearing that's loose.  The bearing socket in the front
housing is what is loose, the bearing probably got tight and spun in
the housing at some time and chewed it out.  It's possible that some
shimming would restore it, but it's not like I really need it at this
point.

I then fired up the car and checked the running voltage, it was 14.3 V
which is right in the pocket.  Done!  I tested the keyless entry fob
and it was working fine, once I tried it a few times.  (The keyless
system sits loose in the battery compartment.)

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] It's always something...

2010-06-30 Thread Jim Cathey

I slipped the old front bearing back on part way, wrapped a strip of
pop can metal around the back shaft, and chucked the rotor into the
drill press as a vertical lathe, with the front bearing resting on the
table and the shaft protruding through its central hole.  I then got
out a flat stick and some emery paper and had at it.  That worked, but
it exposed the fact that the one worn slip ring had a noticeable divot
in it, presumably from arcing.  I got more aggressive with a file and
flattened it, mostly, then re-applied the paper and stick.  (Taking
the hairline groove completely out would have removed more material
than I was comfortable with doing.)  I now have a nice shiny smooth,
and mostly flat, pair of slip rings.  We'll see later if I made a
mistake or not!  I didn't have time to do much more.

The original front bearing is marked FAG 6303.R.10.18, and also A.Q
and ITALY; one dust cover is marked 6303 S 457, the other 6303 S 478.
The replacement is also FAG, labeled on the box 6303.2RSR.C3 but
marked on itself 6303.C3 and E275-0331 HB; one dust cover has 6303RSR
and W263 on it, the other has 6303RSR and W243 on it.

The original rear bearing is marked SKF 6201-2RS1/C3HT228VU035 (a bit
sketchily, as it's on the outside of the race and has some scuffing
that somewhat obscures the legend), and also B (or 8) and ITALY, the
dust covers appear to be unmarked.  The replacement is Koyo, labeled
on the box 62012RDC3 but marked on itself only C3; the dust covers
have 6201RD, KOYO, and JAPAN on them, once side also has 555 and the
other has 519.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] It's always something...

2010-06-30 Thread Jim Cathey

I forgot to mention that I picked up the new bearings yesterday
at the local bearing supply house, $15 for the pair.  I got a
USA-made (?) brush pack for $30 at an alternator rebuilding place,
they didn't have any solder-in brushes and I was tired of looking
for them.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] It's always something...

2010-06-29 Thread Jim Cathey

The fallout from the dead 560SL battery in Missoula has so far been
a cleaning and gluing together of the battery box and lid, which were
well shattered by ham-handed past battery work.  But yesterday I
finally got to pull the alternator, and one brush was notably short,
and arcing had chewed its slip ring a bit.

When spinning the alternator by hand it sounds 'dry', I'd say that it
really could use a new bearing or two.  Checking my records I find
I've done this before, three years ago on the 190D, and the place to
take the alternator is _Spokane Auto Electric  Repair_.  They carry
everything, and can turn slip rings too.  I just need to take it apart
and re-assemble it.

Not an issue.  Step one: use a Sharpie to mark the phasing of the two
housings.  As before, I then put two screwdrivers into the fan and set
them against bolts through the alternator mounting holes.  A 22mm
box-end wrench went over the nut, and then a hammer striking the
wrench removed the nut easily.  (Inertia, not so much force on the
fan, was the counterforce.)  The pulley, fan, and all the spacers just
drop off the front then.  I strung them on a piece of wire to keep
them in order.  A hammer and a screwdriver removed the shaft key.
Removal of the fan exposed the four screws that held the body
together, those came out easily enough.  (Don't slip and bugger the
screw slots, or you'll really have a problem!)  A brass hammer tapped
around the rear housing caused it to drop away from the front housing
and rotor, the rear bearing stayed with the rotor.  The rear bearing
was _very_ dry, it's close to failure.  Most of the grease appears to
have worked out of both bearings.  I removed the four little screws
that released the front bearing clamping plate, and with the nut on
the shaft the brass hammer drove the front bearing out of the front
housing.

Checking the tool box I found a recently-acquired New Britain puller
(50 cents at a garage sale) that is a _perfect_ fit to the rear
bearing.  It clipped over it and with a twist and a little pop it
came right off the shaft, the flat end of the puller's bolt slipped
perfectly through the bearing.  (It was _sweet_, I love using
good tools!)  The front bearing is the hard one, but I have found that
I can use a clamp-together flat plate bearing puller in conjunction
with a 2-jaw puller to pull them off their shafts.  I kept the front
nut half-on the shaft in order to constrain the point of the 2-jaw
puller.  It took quite a bit of force, but the bearing pulled off
pretty easily, and the procedure didn't seem to deform the bearing
clamping plate too much.  Disassembly complete; it didn't even take
very long.

I put the rotor, bearings, and brush pack into a box in the trunk of
the car.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] It's always something...

2010-06-29 Thread Rich Thomas
Great writeup -- you need a camera to take piccies to document your work 
too!


I have a dead alternator (I think bearings seized, have not fooled with 
it) from the boy's 84 SD, maybe I should try to resurrect it.  I'll 
follow your writeup and take pics.


--R

On 6/29/2010 9:51 AM, Jim Cathey wrote:

The fallout from the dead 560SL battery in Missoula has so far been
a cleaning and gluing together of the battery box and lid, which were
well shattered by ham-handed past battery work.  But yesterday I
finally got to pull the alternator, and one brush was notably short,
and arcing had chewed its slip ring a bit.

When spinning the alternator by hand it sounds 'dry', I'd say that it
really could use a new bearing or two.  Checking my records I find
I've done this before, three years ago on the 190D, and the place to
take the alternator is _Spokane Auto Electric  Repair_.  They carry
everything, and can turn slip rings too.  I just need to take it apart
and re-assemble it.

Not an issue.  Step one: use a Sharpie to mark the phasing of the two
housings.  As before, I then put two screwdrivers into the fan and set
them against bolts through the alternator mounting holes.  A 22mm
box-end wrench went over the nut, and then a hammer striking the
wrench removed the nut easily.  (Inertia, not so much force on the
fan, was the counterforce.)  The pulley, fan, and all the spacers just
drop off the front then.  I strung them on a piece of wire to keep
them in order.  A hammer and a screwdriver removed the shaft key.
Removal of the fan exposed the four screws that held the body
together, those came out easily enough.  (Don't slip and bugger the
screw slots, or you'll really have a problem!)  A brass hammer tapped
around the rear housing caused it to drop away from the front housing
and rotor, the rear bearing stayed with the rotor.  The rear bearing
was _very_ dry, it's close to failure.  Most of the grease appears to
have worked out of both bearings.  I removed the four little screws
that released the front bearing clamping plate, and with the nut on
the shaft the brass hammer drove the front bearing out of the front
housing.

Checking the tool box I found a recently-acquired New Britain puller
(50 cents at a garage sale) that is a _perfect_ fit to the rear
bearing.  It clipped over it and with a twist and a little pop it
came right off the shaft, the flat end of the puller's bolt slipped
perfectly through the bearing.  (It was _sweet_, I love using
good tools!)  The front bearing is the hard one, but I have found that
I can use a clamp-together flat plate bearing puller in conjunction
with a 2-jaw puller to pull them off their shafts.  I kept the front
nut half-on the shaft in order to constrain the point of the 2-jaw
puller.  It took quite a bit of force, but the bearing pulled off
pretty easily, and the procedure didn't seem to deform the bearing
clamping plate too much.  Disassembly complete; it didn't even take
very long.

I put the rotor, bearings, and brush pack into a box in the trunk of
the car.

-- Jim



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Re: [MBZ] It's always something...

2010-06-29 Thread Jim Cathey
Great writeup -- you need a camera to take piccies to document your 
work too!


Have camera.  I'm more of a thousand words kind of guy, though...
Also, my free web hosting offers me 10MB with the email account.
As the site is currently up to 93MB I'm trying to keep down the
amount of extraneous pictures!  (They haven't said anything yet.)

I have a dead alternator (I think bearings seized, have not fooled 
with it) from the boy's 84 SD, maybe I should try to resurrect it.  
I'll follow your writeup and take pics.


I have a deader that's been sitting on the garage floor for
ages.  I'm thinking about putting the used bearings into it,
it can then be an emergency spare or something.

-- Jim



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