Re: [MBZ] OT Sorta speaking of politics and energy

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

--R wrote:
> This must qualify (and win
> first prize) as the largest bilking of customers in recorded time...

Not really.  Eisenhower warned of Military Industrial Complex, and
then today's Pharma Industrial Complex and today's Medical Industrial
Complex (poor okiebenz server owner Kleb) and other Industrial
Complex.  Shall we include NewVehicle Industrial Complex, etc - this
could be a fun project.  Telecommunications Industrial Complex versus
POTS.  Oh, boy - such fun!
Carry On.
tin.man

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Re: [MBZ] OT Sorta speaking of politics and energy

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

But the tunnels have always dropped panels and flooded, I seem to recall.  I 
always loved the Sumner Tunnel, especially screaming down the tunnel out of 
Logan late at night in a rental car.

Don’t cross those white lines!

-D


> On Aug 23, 2017, at 4:47 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> They did get the dig done though and it has made the trip to the airport MUCH 
> faster, at least when the tunnels aren't full of water or dropping panels on 
> you.
> -Curt


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Re: [MBZ] OT Sorta speaking of politics and energy

[Curt Raymond via Mercedes]

They did get the dig done though and it has made the trip to the airport MUCH 
faster, at least when the tunnels aren't full of water or dropping panels on 
you.
-Curt



On Wednesday, August 23, 2017, 4:17:34 PM EDT, Fred Moir via Mercedes 
<mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

Can you spell (Smell) "Big Dig"


Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.



From: Mercedes <mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com> on behalf of Rich Thomas via 
Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Sent: 23 August 2017 15:46
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: Rich Thomas
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Sorta speaking of politics and energy

And the incompetence.  This is unbelievable, now we're into it for $9bil
and they're talking another $2bil to unwind it.  This must qualify (and
win first prize) as the largest bilking of customers in recorded time,
all enabled by elected "representatives."  Even larger than the collapse
of Enron.

--R

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Re: [MBZ] OT Sorta speaking of politics and energy

[Fred Moir via Mercedes]

Can you spell (Smell) "Big Dig"


Fred Moir.
Lynn MA.
Diesel preferred.



From: Mercedes <mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com> on behalf of Rich Thomas via 
Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Sent: 23 August 2017 15:46
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: Rich Thomas
Subject: Re: [MBZ] OT Sorta speaking of politics and energy

And the incompetence.  This is unbelievable, now we're into it for $9bil
and they're talking another $2bil to unwind it.  This must qualify (and
win first prize) as the largest bilking of customers in recorded time,
all enabled by elected "representatives."  Even larger than the collapse
of Enron.

--R

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Re: [MBZ] OT Sorta speaking of politics and energy

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

oops 
http://www.postandcourier.com/business/scana-corp-applied-to-build-the-now-failed-nuclear-reactors/article_e59b6d6e-8809-11e7-8047-a7aaabd8ffef.html



On 8/23/17 3:46 PM, Rich Thomas wrote:
And the incompetence.  This is unbelievable, now we're into it for 
$9bil and they're talking another $2bil to unwind it. This must 
qualify (and win first prize) as the largest bilking of customers in 
recorded time, all enabled by elected "representatives."  Even larger 
than the collapse of Enron.


--R


On 8/22/17 10:48 AM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes wrote:

"The corruption in every state is incredible."

There.
I fixed it for you.

Rick
Who works in Crook County Illinois.


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Re: [MBZ] OT Sorta speaking of politics and energy

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

And the incompetence.  This is unbelievable, now we're into it for $9bil 
and they're talking another $2bil to unwind it.  This must qualify (and 
win first prize) as the largest bilking of customers in recorded time, 
all enabled by elected "representatives."  Even larger than the collapse 
of Enron.


--R


On 8/22/17 10:48 AM, Rick Knoble via Mercedes wrote:

"The corruption in every state is incredible."

There.
I fixed it for you.

Rick
Who works in Crook County Illinois.


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Re: [MBZ] OT Sorta speaking of politics and energy

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

-D wrote:
> I think if a utility is publicly owned, it should have to suffer...

Are there of this arrangement?  Is this system of public ownership and
regulatory oversight failing?  Are we United? or States? or Republic?
or Democracy?  Questions.
tin.man

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Re: [MBZ] OT Sorta speaking of politics and energy

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

--R wrote:
> A perfect storm of incompetence and money and corruption.  What's not to
> like?

Well, a new word is liked.
Shall you guess which word?
tin.man

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Re: [MBZ] OT Sorta speaking of politics and energy

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

Except when you have a Public Service Commission that is also wrapped up 
in the politicians, and the other oversight organs that are controlled 
by the politicians.  That is what happened here, the corruptocrats 
passed a law called the Base Load Review Act that basically put all risk 
on the ratepayers, and the PSC and other oversight orgs just 
rubber-stamped everything the utilities wanted (and their lobbyists 
called for) while tehe corruptocrats continued to collect their checks 
from the donors in the whole spectrum of utility execs and contractors, etc.


Just saw a blurb that the chosen reactor design (Westinghouse AP1000 I 
think it was) was basically unbuildable due to specifications that were 
generally unachievable by any sort of construction practices.  
(Westinghouse is bankrupt, I think Toshiba bought them, and Toshiba is 
teetering now too).


So these guys, some of whom admit they relied on whatever the lobbyists 
told them, are responsible for screwing the citizens bigtime, while also 
probably causing a collapse of a segment of the international economy.  
The utility execs were collecting big bonuses for their management of 
this whole sh**show, which makes sense because they did a great job for 
their stockholders (except for the state-owned utility, but they also 
unloaded huge risk per the elected idiots).


A perfect storm of incompetence and money and corruption.  What's not to 
like?


--R


On 8/22/17 1:32 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

I think if a utility is publicly owned, it should have to suffer the same fate 
that any publicly held company does when they make bad choices.  Some might 
argue that this would put the public at risk, as we can’t have utility 
companies failing.  My response to that is that if they were responsible to 
their stockholders like any regular company was and knew that they couldn’t put 
their risky behavior on the backs of ratepayers, they would be far less likely 
to engage in said risky behavior.

Marble Hill was a perfect example of this.  PSI saw the writing on the wall 
years ahead of the damage, but rather than cut their losses when they could 
still handle it, they just pushed forward, snowballing the situation out of 
control.

-D




On Aug 22, 2017, at 12:26 PM, Mountain Man via Mercedes  
wrote:

-D wrote:

That’s my problem with publicly owned utilities that the states regulate.

That doesn't sound political.
Tell us more about your "problem" and what is a better system.  Your
solution is not likely to happen, but... neither is a lot of things
DIY accomplishes.
tin.man

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Re: [MBZ] OT Sorta speaking of politics and energy

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

I think if a utility is publicly owned, it should have to suffer the same fate 
that any publicly held company does when they make bad choices.  Some might 
argue that this would put the public at risk, as we can’t have utility 
companies failing.  My response to that is that if they were responsible to 
their stockholders like any regular company was and knew that they couldn’t put 
their risky behavior on the backs of ratepayers, they would be far less likely 
to engage in said risky behavior.

Marble Hill was a perfect example of this.  PSI saw the writing on the wall 
years ahead of the damage, but rather than cut their losses when they could 
still handle it, they just pushed forward, snowballing the situation out of 
control.

-D



> On Aug 22, 2017, at 12:26 PM, Mountain Man via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> -D wrote:
>> That’s my problem with publicly owned utilities that the states regulate.
> 
> That doesn't sound political.
> Tell us more about your "problem" and what is a better system.  Your
> solution is not likely to happen, but... neither is a lot of things
> DIY accomplishes.
> tin.man
> 
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> 
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> 
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> 


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Re: [MBZ] OT Sorta speaking of politics and energy

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

-D wrote:
> That’s my problem with publicly owned utilities that the states regulate.

That doesn't sound political.
Tell us more about your "problem" and what is a better system.  Your
solution is not likely to happen, but... neither is a lot of things
DIY accomplishes.
tin.man

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Re: [MBZ] OT Sorta speaking of politics and energy

[Mountain Man via Mercedes]

--R wrote:
> The corruption in this state is incredible.

Eh?
You don't live in IL.
tin.man

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Re: [MBZ] OT Sorta speaking of politics and energy

[Dan Penoff via Mercedes]

Happened to me in Indiana years ago (Marble Hill) and hit us here in FL 
recently with Duke buying a broken plant (Crystal River) that had duct tape and 
baling wire repairs that they bought for pennies on the dollar that they were 
going to “fix up”.  After determining that the bodged up repairs the previous 
utility performed compromised the unit so badly it couldn’t be fixed, they 
decided to shut it down.  Who is paying for that?

Why the ratepayers, of course!  Heavens, we couldn’t let the grossly mismanaged 
and horrendously overbudget costs fall back on the stockholders, now could we?

That’s my problem with publicly owned utilities that the states regulate.

-D


> On Aug 22, 2017, at 10:45 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> The nukes in MD have already been written off and no new ones are being
> built.  Our local utility is also very solar friendly and pays me market
> rates for my PV generated roof top  power.  I can never understand why the
> southern tier of states - including AZ and NV -as well as FL and its
> neighbors - are so unwelcoming to solar energy.  There are literally
> thousands of  high skill jobs they are missing out on.
> 

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Re: [MBZ] OT Sorta speaking of politics and energy

[Rick Knoble via Mercedes]

"The corruption in every state is incredible."

There. 
I fixed it for you.

Rick
Who works in Crook County Illinois. 


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Re: [MBZ] OT Sorta speaking of politics and energy

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

The nukes in MD have already been written off and no new ones are being
built.  Our local utility is also very solar friendly and pays me market
rates for my PV generated roof top  power.  I can never understand why the
southern tier of states - including AZ and NV -as well as FL and its
neighbors - are so unwelcoming to solar energy.  There are literally
thousands of  high skill jobs they are missing out on.

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 10:38 AM, Rich Thomas <
richthomas79td...@constructivity.net> wrote:

> You missed the part that it has already been put on the backs of the
> ratepayers.  We have paid for the it with bills 30-35% higher that they
> would have been otherwise, for years and years.  The politicians are
> exactly to blame.  The corruption in this state is incredible.  Turns out
> the AG is now shown to be in bed with the top lobbyist/political consultant
> in the state in investigating the corruption.  He tried to derail another
> attorney from the investigations because it appears he is also in bed with
> the corruptocrats.  Incredible.
>
> --R
>
> On 8/22/17 10:15 AM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:
>
> I'm betting the path of least resistance will allow the utility write off
> the losses as a tax credit we will all subsidize.
>
> On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 9:37 AM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>> A week or two ago the local power utility SCANA in partnership with the
>> state-owned utility Santee-Cooper decided to abandon a nuke power plant
>> project that they have sunk like $8bil into. Rampant mismanagement, the
>> contractors have gone bankrupt, would take another $8-10bil to finish.
>> This was all enabled by a law that the legislature passed some years ago
>> that guaranteed them the rate-payers would pay for the project during
>> construction (as opposed to the utility bonding it out to be paid when
>> on-line). Now there is like another $2bil in obligations the ratepayers get
>> to pay.  The execs have all been raking in huge bonuses over the years for
>> their management expertise in funneling YOOOGE amounts of money to
>> various contractors and politicians.  The politicians are now claiming that
>> the lobbyists told them this would work out well, and are now scrambling to
>> set up commissions and panels and investigatory bodies to find out what
>> happened, and to shift blame away from their ignorance and corruption.
>>
>> We are so screwed.
>>
>> --R
>>
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>>
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT Sorta speaking of politics and energy

[Rich Thomas via Mercedes]

You missed the part that it has already been put on the backs of the 
ratepayers.  We have paid for the it with bills 30-35% higher that they 
would have been otherwise, for years and years.  The politicians are 
exactly to blame.  The corruption in this state is incredible.  Turns 
out the AG is now shown to be in bed with the top lobbyist/political 
consultant in the state in investigating the corruption.  He tried to 
derail another attorney from the investigations because it appears he is 
also in bed with the corruptocrats.  Incredible.


--R


On 8/22/17 10:15 AM, Andrew Strasfogel wrote:
I'm betting the path of least resistance will allow the utility write 
off the losses as a tax credit we will all subsidize.


On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 9:37 AM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes 
> wrote:


A week or two ago the local power utility SCANA in partnership
with the state-owned utility Santee-Cooper decided to abandon a
nuke power plant project that they have sunk like $8bil into.
Rampant mismanagement, the contractors have gone bankrupt, would
take another $8-10bil to finish.  This was all enabled by a law
that the legislature passed some years ago that guaranteed them
the rate-payers would pay for the project during construction (as
opposed to the utility bonding it out to be paid when on-line).
Now there is like another $2bil in obligations the ratepayers get
to pay.  The execs have all been raking in huge bonuses over the
years for their management expertise in funneling YOOOGE
amounts of money to various contractors and politicians. The
politicians are now claiming that the lobbyists told them this
would work out well, and are now scrambling to set up commissions
and panels and investigatory bodies to find out what happened, and
to shift blame away from their ignorance and corruption.

We are so screwed.

--R


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Re: [MBZ] OT Sorta speaking of politics and energy

[Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes]

I'm betting the path of least resistance will allow the utility write off
the losses as a tax credit we will all subsidize.

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 9:37 AM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> A week or two ago the local power utility SCANA in partnership with the
> state-owned utility Santee-Cooper decided to abandon a nuke power plant
> project that they have sunk like $8bil into. Rampant mismanagement, the
> contractors have gone bankrupt, would take another $8-10bil to finish.
> This was all enabled by a law that the legislature passed some years ago
> that guaranteed them the rate-payers would pay for the project during
> construction (as opposed to the utility bonding it out to be paid when
> on-line). Now there is like another $2bil in obligations the ratepayers get
> to pay.  The execs have all been raking in huge bonuses over the years for
> their management expertise in funneling YOOOGE amounts of money to
> various contractors and politicians.  The politicians are now claiming that
> the lobbyists told them this would work out well, and are now scrambling to
> set up commissions and panels and investigatory bodies to find out what
> happened, and to shift blame away from their ignorance and corruption.
>
> We are so screwed.
>
> --R
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
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>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
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Re: [MBZ] OT Sorta speaking of politics and energy

[Meade Dillon via Mercedes]

Need to fire and replace most if not all of the top management of the
utility, and figure out a better solution than abandoning the project.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Tue, Aug 22, 2017 at 9:37 AM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> A week or two ago the local power utility SCANA in partnership with the
> state-owned utility Santee-Cooper decided to abandon a nuke power plant
> project that they have sunk like $8bil into. Rampant mismanagement, the
> contractors have gone bankrupt, would take another $8-10bil to finish.
> This was all enabled by a law that the legislature passed some years ago
> that guaranteed them the rate-payers would pay for the project during
> construction (as opposed to the utility bonding it out to be paid when
> on-line). Now there is like another $2bil in obligations the ratepayers get
> to pay.  The execs have all been raking in huge bonuses over the years for
> their management expertise in funneling YOOOGE amounts of money to
> various contractors and politicians.  The politicians are now claiming that
> the lobbyists told them this would work out well, and are now scrambling to
> set up commissions and panels and investigatory bodies to find out what
> happened, and to shift blame away from their ignorance and corruption.
>
> We are so screwed.
>
>
>
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