Re: [MBZ] Premium Gas or Not?

2006-01-21 Thread Barry Stark
Don -
Just wanted to add that it is really a function of the compresson ratio of
the engine. If your compression ratio gets up towards 10:1 it really should
be running the good stuff. Most modern engines these days have knock sensors
or detonation sensors that retard the spark when it begins to detonate to
keep from damaging the engine. The late timing adversely affects performance
and usually fuel mileage too. You might want to try the premium and see if
running the cheaper price stuff is really worth it in the long run.

Barry

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Marshall Booth
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 12:37 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Premium Gas or Not?


Donald Snook wrote:
 I have not had a gas Mercedes since 1998 and it was a 1971 (that
 originally ran on regular i.e. leaded gas), so I am not clear on the
 premium gas requirement on newer gasser MB's.   Do I really need to run
 premium in my 1990 300SEL?   I am pretty sure the simple answer will be
 yes. Just wondering if anyone had thoughts on this issue.

The M103 engine will run on less than premium, but will NOT run as it
was intended to run.

Marshall





Re: [MBZ] Premium Gas or Not?

2006-01-20 Thread Hendrik Riessen

Look in the owners manual and all will be revealed.
The problem is that low octane fuel will make the engine run like poo 
because the thing will retard itself to compensate and therefore you will 
have less power and higher fuel consumption.
I run my 230E on 95 octane (over here 91 is standard and 98 is ultra 
premium) which it seems happy with. I have tried 91 but it sounds like a 
diesel (no self retardation in the K-jetronic setup) and with 98 there seems 
to be no difference when compared to 95.


Hendrik

- Original Message - 
From: Donald Snook [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 6:01 AM
Subject: [MBZ] Premium Gas or Not?



I have not had a gas Mercedes since 1998 and it was a 1971 (that
originally ran on regular i.e. leaded gas), so I am not clear on the
premium gas requirement on newer gasser MB's.   Do I really need to run
premium in my 1990 300SEL?   I am pretty sure the simple answer will be
yes. Just wondering if anyone had thoughts on this issue.



Donald H. Snook

1990 300SEL 122K arriving soon.

1992 Olds 98 Regency 121K FOR SALE CHEAP

1998 Ford Explorer 97K  (Wife's car)

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Re: [MBZ] Premium Gas or Not?

2006-01-20 Thread Hendrik Riessen

Not only power but mileage as well.
87 is cat wee not fit for Benz consumption.
It has to be remembered that Merc engines are build well and need good food 
to do well. If you want to cheap out buy a cheap brand car.
By the way, the later engines are self adjusting as far as timing goes so 
there is no need to get the timing light out.


Hendrik

- Original Message - 
From: John Berryman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Mercedes Discussion List 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 8:15 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Premium Gas or Not?




On Jan 19, 2006, at 4:02 PM, Tom Hargrave wrote:


I wonder if the 420SEL or 560SEL will run on less than premium and
if so,
what is the minimum octane rating that these engines will run? I
run a lot
of miles  /year and I've started to see some deals with both cars.

Thanks,
Tom Hargrave


You could probably screw around with ignition timing and get away
with 87 octane. You'll lose a little power but that's the way the
cookie crumbles.

Johnny B
iMac therefore I am



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Re: [MBZ] Premium Gas or Not?

2006-01-20 Thread Peter Frederick

My rule of thumb on the octane issue is thus:

If you have KE-Jetronic and no knock sensor, do NOT use anything but 
premium on the highway.  Midgrade is OK around town, but you really 
need the knock protection on the interstate as the engine cannot retard 
the ignition timing if it knocks.  Burnt valves is the usual result.


On later models with LH-Jetronic and knock sensors, remember that 
retarding the timing will reduce both power and milage -- you will have 
to run both, keep accurate records, and decide whether the lower price 
is actually a savings for you own particular circumstances.  I know 
that on several of my older cars, including my Mom's old Fairmont 
station wagon and the work van (with 300,000 miles on it!), the 
accumulation of crud on the piston crowns raised the compression ratio 
enough that regular rattled pretty badly.  Premium cured the spark 
knock, and the increase in power and milage more than paid the 
difference.


It is entirely possible to have the milage drop so badly from retarded 
timing that it's more expensive to run regular than premium.  You also 
risk damage to the catalytic convertor/oxygen sensor running late 
timing on acceleration all the time.


Peter




Re: [MBZ] Premium Gas or Not?

2006-01-20 Thread mykd1
Hey Peter, I've always found that a good rule to follow regarding octane is the 
higher the engine compression the higher the octane. High octane fuel burns 
slower which allows for a more complete combustion. Most engines with a 10-1 or 
higher compression require higher octane fuel because it burns slower and 
because higher compression engines will knock severely if the fuel burns to fast
just my 2 cents 
 
69 280 SEL 120,000 Miles
72 350SL   108,000 Miles
2004 VW Passat 4 Motion
1999 Mazda Miata   
 
 
-Original Message-
From: Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Mercedes Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 18:18:15 -0600
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Premium Gas or Not?


My rule of thumb on the octane issue is thus:

If you have KE-Jetronic and no knock sensor, do NOT use anything but 
premium on the highway.  Midgrade is OK around town, but you really 
need the knock protection on the interstate as the engine cannot retard 
the ignition timing if it knocks.  Burnt valves is the usual result.

On later models with LH-Jetronic and knock sensors, remember that 
retarding the timing will reduce both power and milage -- you will have 
to run both, keep accurate records, and decide whether the lower price 
is actually a savings for you own particular circumstances.  I know 
that on several of my older cars, including my Mom's old Fairmont 
station wagon and the work van (with 300,000 miles on it!), the 
accumulation of crud on the piston crowns raised the compression ratio 
enough that regular rattled pretty badly.  Premium cured the spark 
knock, and the increase in power and milage more than paid the 
difference.

It is entirely possible to have the milage drop so badly from retarded 
timing that it's more expensive to run regular than premium.  You also 
risk damage to the catalytic convertor/oxygen sensor running late 
timing on acceleration all the time.

Peter


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Re: [MBZ] Premium Gas or Not?

2006-01-20 Thread Kaleb C. Striplin

the 560 will run fine on 87, but yes, I think the 6's need something higher.

Kevin wrote:

On Thu, Jan 19, 2006 at 01:31:37PM -0600, Donald Snook wrote:


I have not had a gas Mercedes since 1998 and it was a 1971 (that
originally ran on regular i.e. leaded gas), so I am not clear on the
premium gas requirement on newer gasser MB's.   Do I really need to run
premium in my 1990 300SEL?   I am pretty sure the simple answer will be
yes. Just wondering if anyone had thoughts on this issue. 



I've heard Kaleb mention that his 560 was satisfied with less than 
premium, but am not so sure about the sixes. I'd probably try it with a partial

tank - if it's unhappy with it, it'll let you know.

K

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--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D,
 84 250 LWB, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D,
 76 450SEL, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250
http://www.striplin.net



Re: [MBZ] Premium Gas or Not?

2006-01-20 Thread Kaleb C. Striplin
sorry to pipe in here, but 2k seems way too high to me for one of those. 
 IT should have already had new tires for that kind of money unless its 
just showroom nice


Donald Snook wrote:

Rick Knoble wrote: 


1992 Olds 98 Regency 121K FOR SALE CHEAP

How much for the geezer-mobile? 

 


$2000.  The dealership selling it wanted $3995 (which I admit is
insane). I bought it for $2K.  I also put brand new tires on it (less
than 3K miles on them now) replaced front brakes (pads AND new rotors),
changed tranny fluid, and replaced the outside temperature sensor. It is
good car. It is NOT sexy to look at (if you are under 70). VERY nice
interior.  I can email pics later if anyone is really interested. 

 

Selling it for $2k means I am losing money, but no sense in keeping it. 

 


Donald H. Snook

McDonald, Tinker, Skaer, Quinn  Herrington, P.A. 


300 West Douglas

P.O. Box 207

Wichita, Kansas 67201 0207

Tel. (316) 263-5851

This confidential message may be subject to the attorney-client
privilege or protected by the attorney work-product doctrine. If you
have recieved this message in error, please delete it and notify me.  

 


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--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D,
 84 250 LWB, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D,
 76 450SEL, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250
http://www.striplin.net



Re: [MBZ] Premium Gas or Not?

2006-01-20 Thread Kaleb C. Striplin

my 560 gets the same mileage and has the same amount of power with 87

John Berryman wrote:

On Jan 19, 2006, at 4:02 PM, Tom Hargrave wrote:


I wonder if the 420SEL or 560SEL will run on less than premium and  
if so,
what is the minimum octane rating that these engines will run? I  
run a lot

of miles  /year and I've started to see some deals with both cars.

Thanks,
Tom Hargrave



	You could probably screw around with ignition timing and get away  
with 87 octane. You'll lose a little power but that's the way the  
cookie crumbles.


Johnny B
iMac therefore I am



___
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--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D,
 84 250 LWB, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D,
 76 450SEL, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250
http://www.striplin.net



Re: [MBZ] Premium Gas or Not?

2006-01-20 Thread Marshall Booth

Donald Snook wrote:

I have not had a gas Mercedes since 1998 and it was a 1971 (that
originally ran on regular i.e. leaded gas), so I am not clear on the
premium gas requirement on newer gasser MB's.   Do I really need to run
premium in my 1990 300SEL?   I am pretty sure the simple answer will be
yes. Just wondering if anyone had thoughts on this issue. 


The M103 engine will run on less than premium, but will NOT run as it 
was intended to run.


Marshall
--
  Marshall Booth (who doesn't respond to unsigned questions)
  der Dieseling Doktor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
'87 300TD 182Kmi, '84 190D 2.2 229Kmi, '85 190D 2.0 161Kmi, '87 190D 2.5 
turbo 237kmi




Re: [MBZ] Premium Gas or Not?

2006-01-19 Thread Rick Knoble

1992 Olds 98 Regency 121K FOR SALE CHEAP

How much for the geezer-mobile?
Rick Knoble 
'85 300 CD




Re: [MBZ] Premium Gas or Not?

2006-01-19 Thread Kevin
On Thu, Jan 19, 2006 at 01:31:37PM -0600, Donald Snook wrote:
 I have not had a gas Mercedes since 1998 and it was a 1971 (that
 originally ran on regular i.e. leaded gas), so I am not clear on the
 premium gas requirement on newer gasser MB's.   Do I really need to run
 premium in my 1990 300SEL?   I am pretty sure the simple answer will be
 yes. Just wondering if anyone had thoughts on this issue. 

I've heard Kaleb mention that his 560 was satisfied with less than 
premium, but am not so sure about the sixes. I'd probably try it with a partial
tank - if it's unhappy with it, it'll let you know.

K



Re: [MBZ] Premium Gas or Not?

2006-01-19 Thread Tom Hargrave
I wonder if the 420SEL or 560SEL will run on less than premium and if so,
what is the minimum octane rating that these engines will run? I run a lot
of miles  /year and I've started to see some deals with both cars.

Thanks,
Tom Hargrave
256-656-1924
www.kegkits.com



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kevin
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 2:49 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Premium Gas or Not?


On Thu, Jan 19, 2006 at 01:31:37PM -0600, Donald Snook wrote:
 I have not had a gas Mercedes since 1998 and it was a 1971 (that
 originally ran on regular i.e. leaded gas), so I am not clear on the
 premium gas requirement on newer gasser MB's.   Do I really need to run
 premium in my 1990 300SEL?   I am pretty sure the simple answer will be
 yes. Just wondering if anyone had thoughts on this issue.

I've heard Kaleb mention that his 560 was satisfied with less than
premium, but am not so sure about the sixes. I'd probably try it with a
partial
tank - if it's unhappy with it, it'll let you know.

K

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Re: [MBZ] Premium Gas or Not?

2006-01-19 Thread Bob Rentfro

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/car/125786668.html

You mean like that?

Bob Rentfro
'77 300D 148K
'01 VW Beetle TDI 61K
Litchfield Park, AZ


- Original Message - 
From: Tom Hargrave [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Mercedes Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Premium Gas or Not?



I wonder if the 420SEL or 560SEL will run on less than premium and if so,
what is the minimum octane rating that these engines will run? I run a lot
of miles  /year and I've started to see some deals with both cars.

Thanks,
Tom Hargrave
256-656-1924
www.kegkits.com



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kevin
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2006 2:49 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Premium Gas or Not?


On Thu, Jan 19, 2006 at 01:31:37PM -0600, Donald Snook wrote:

I have not had a gas Mercedes since 1998 and it was a 1971 (that
originally ran on regular i.e. leaded gas), so I am not clear on the
premium gas requirement on newer gasser MB's.   Do I really need to run
premium in my 1990 300SEL?   I am pretty sure the simple answer will be
yes. Just wondering if anyone had thoughts on this issue.


I've heard Kaleb mention that his 560 was satisfied with less than
premium, but am not so sure about the sixes. I'd probably try it with a
partial
tank - if it's unhappy with it, it'll let you know.

K

___
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Re: [MBZ] Premium Gas or Not?

2006-01-19 Thread Donald Snook
Rick Knoble wrote: 

1992 Olds 98 Regency 121K FOR SALE CHEAP

How much for the geezer-mobile? 

 

$2000.  The dealership selling it wanted $3995 (which I admit is
insane). I bought it for $2K.  I also put brand new tires on it (less
than 3K miles on them now) replaced front brakes (pads AND new rotors),
changed tranny fluid, and replaced the outside temperature sensor. It is
good car. It is NOT sexy to look at (if you are under 70). VERY nice
interior.  I can email pics later if anyone is really interested. 

 

Selling it for $2k means I am losing money, but no sense in keeping it. 

 

Donald H. Snook

McDonald, Tinker, Skaer, Quinn  Herrington, P.A. 

300 West Douglas

P.O. Box 207

Wichita, Kansas 67201 0207

Tel. (316) 263-5851

This confidential message may be subject to the attorney-client
privilege or protected by the attorney work-product doctrine. If you
have recieved this message in error, please delete it and notify me.  

 



Re: [MBZ] Premium Gas or Not?

2006-01-19 Thread John Berryman


On Jan 19, 2006, at 4:02 PM, Tom Hargrave wrote:

I wonder if the 420SEL or 560SEL will run on less than premium and  
if so,
what is the minimum octane rating that these engines will run? I  
run a lot

of miles  /year and I've started to see some deals with both cars.

Thanks,
Tom Hargrave


	You could probably screw around with ignition timing and get away  
with 87 octane. You'll lose a little power but that's the way the  
cookie crumbles.


Johnny B
iMac therefore I am