Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts

2015-06-07 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
Yeah, they’re all pretty close together as far as design and operation.  Miller 
buzz boxes are some of the simplest electrical devices you could ever imagine.

The really cool ones were the old Lincoln MG (motor generator) sets.  Pretty 
much indestructible, but very popular with the pipeline and tank building folks.

Dan



 On Jun 7, 2015, at 9:35 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 wrote:
 
 Whoops, that of course should have said Hobart.
 They all make about the same thing now I think. The Hobart was exactly like 
 the Miller I'd used previously, same knobs, same settings. I set it up the 
 way I'd been taught to do the Miller and it worked the same.
 I've a young cousin who's a certified welder, he's a Miller man, went to 
 their school...
 
 
 
 -Curt
 
  From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: Okie Benz mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 Cc: Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com 
 Sent: Sunday, June 7, 2015 9:31 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts
 
 Hobart.
 
 Long time name in the industrial welding business, not far behind Miller and 
 Lincoln.
 
 Dan who used to rebuild Miller 400A “buzz boxes” in his after school job.
 
 
 
 
 On Jun 7, 2015, at 9:19 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 I've never used a small 220v machine,I took a class where we had nice Miller 
 220v machines and I've used I think it was a Hobard 220v machine and didn't 
 see much advantage over my 110v unit. I'd love to have a bigger machine with 
 a longer duty cycle but in the end mine is adequate for the work I've asked 
 of it. Someday when I'm made of money ;)
 -Curt
 
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts

2015-06-07 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
I've never used a small 220v machine,I took a class where we had nice Miller 
220v machines and I've used I think it was a Hobard 220v machine and didn't see 
much advantage over my 110v unit. I'd love to have a bigger machine with a 
longer duty cycle but in the end mine is adequate for the work I've asked of 
it. Someday when I'm made of money ;)
-Curt

  From: Dimitri via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Cc: Dimitri dsereta...@yahoo.com 
 Sent: Saturday, June 6, 2015 3:56 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts
   
I didn't know that about 110V machines. My welder is 110 and I make perfect 
butt welds on sheet metal but now I'm interested in trying a 220 machine.

Sent from my iPhone

 On Jun 6, 2015, at 2:06 PM, G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 I don't recall you saying. Is the welder you got 110 volt.. or 220 volt?
 
 You will find 110 volt wire feeds struggle to hold a stable arc thus have
 larger variation in the weld puddle temp and size.. With experience, the
 welder can adjust his handling of the weld to compensate.. some.. but he
 will always be behind the curve a little.
 
 On thicker material, it won't be so apparent.. as you go to thin sheet
 metal that lead / lag in arc stability and weld puddle temp becomes more
 critical..
 
 Yes, you can blame it on the machine in that instance. It will preform
 more acceptably using the spot weld tecnique than trying to run a continous
 bead because the shorter heat cycle will be more within it's capabilities.
 
 Adapt and Overcome...
 On Sat, Jun 6, 2015 at 9:53 AM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 wrote:
 
 If I can make welds that look and perform well enough with this garbage
 unit, I will move up to a real gas shielded product for future projects.
 If I can not keep from producing crap, I will give up on welding, having
 invested little in the attempt
 
 clay
 
 
 On Jun 5, 2015, at 3:28 PM, Dimitri via Mercedes wrote:
 
 Unless you use shielding gas you will be unhappy with your results. I
 promise!
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Jun 5, 2015, at 4:33 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 wrote:
 
 The wire is garbage, but it came free with the welder. May as well burn
 through it.
 
 setting up feed speed is hit and miss for now.  It does not want to
 feed as slowly as the graph inside says I need it.  There are two amperage
 speeds.  Lots and not that much.  I could not get much speed or heat to get
 a good bead
 
 clay
 
 On Jun 5, 2015, at 1:12 PM, fmiser via Mercedes wrote:
 
 clay wrote:
 
 I could not get a decent bead using the PC carcasses and was
 getting a bunch of blow through.
 
 Thin sheet metal and gasless wirefeed is pretty tough.  Set
 the wire feed and amperage low.  And get some good wire.  The
 HF wire is junk.
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts

2015-06-07 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
Hobart.

Long time name in the industrial welding business, not far behind Miller and 
Lincoln.

Dan who used to rebuild Miller 400A “buzz boxes” in his after school job.


 On Jun 7, 2015, at 9:19 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 wrote:
 
 I've never used a small 220v machine,I took a class where we had nice Miller 
 220v machines and I've used I think it was a Hobard 220v machine and didn't 
 see much advantage over my 110v unit. I'd love to have a bigger machine with 
 a longer duty cycle but in the end mine is adequate for the work I've asked 
 of it. Someday when I'm made of money ;)
 -Curt
 


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Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts

2015-06-07 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
Whoops, that of course should have said Hobart.
They all make about the same thing now I think. The Hobart was exactly like the 
Miller I'd used previously, same knobs, same settings. I set it up the way I'd 
been taught to do the Miller and it worked the same.
I've a young cousin who's a certified welder, he's a Miller man, went to their 
school...



-Curt

  From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: Okie Benz mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Cc: Dan Penoff d...@penoff.com 
 Sent: Sunday, June 7, 2015 9:31 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts
   
Hobart.

Long time name in the industrial welding business, not far behind Miller and 
Lincoln.

Dan who used to rebuild Miller 400A “buzz boxes” in his after school job.




 On Jun 7, 2015, at 9:19 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 wrote:
 
 I've never used a small 220v machine,I took a class where we had nice Miller 
 220v machines and I've used I think it was a Hobard 220v machine and didn't 
 see much advantage over my 110v unit. I'd love to have a bigger machine with 
 a longer duty cycle but in the end mine is adequate for the work I've asked 
 of it. Someday when I'm made of money ;)
 -Curt
 


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Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts

2015-06-06 Thread Dimitri via Mercedes
I didn't know that about 110V machines. My welder is 110 and I make perfect 
butt welds on sheet metal but now I'm interested in trying a 220 machine.

Sent from my iPhone

 On Jun 6, 2015, at 2:06 PM, G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 I don't recall you saying. Is the welder you got 110 volt.. or 220 volt?
 
 You will find 110 volt wire feeds struggle to hold a stable arc thus have
 larger variation in the weld puddle temp and size.. With experience, the
 welder can adjust his handling of the weld to compensate.. some.. but he
 will always be behind the curve a little.
 
 On thicker material, it won't be so apparent.. as you go to thin sheet
 metal that lead / lag in arc stability and weld puddle temp becomes more
 critical..
 
 Yes, you can blame it on the machine in that instance. It will preform
 more acceptably using the spot weld tecnique than trying to run a continous
 bead because the shorter heat cycle will be more within it's capabilities.
 
 Adapt and Overcome...
 On Sat, Jun 6, 2015 at 9:53 AM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 wrote:
 
 If I can make welds that look and perform well enough with this garbage
 unit, I will move up to a real gas shielded product for future projects.
 If I can not keep from producing crap, I will give up on welding, having
 invested little in the attempt
 
 clay
 
 
 On Jun 5, 2015, at 3:28 PM, Dimitri via Mercedes wrote:
 
 Unless you use shielding gas you will be unhappy with your results. I
 promise!
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Jun 5, 2015, at 4:33 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 wrote:
 
 The wire is garbage, but it came free with the welder. May as well burn
 through it.
 
 setting up feed speed is hit and miss for now.  It does not want to
 feed as slowly as the graph inside says I need it.  There are two amperage
 speeds.  Lots and not that much.  I could not get much speed or heat to get
 a good bead
 
 clay
 
 On Jun 5, 2015, at 1:12 PM, fmiser via Mercedes wrote:
 
 clay wrote:
 
 I could not get a decent bead using the PC carcasses and was
 getting a bunch of blow through.
 
 Thin sheet metal and gasless wirefeed is pretty tough.  Set
 the wire feed and amperage low.  And get some good wire.  The
 HF wire is junk.
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts

2015-06-06 Thread clay via Mercedes
The attempt yesterday was on uncleaned metal.  The disk brake was much better, 
as it was only rusty, which I brushed off.  I will use a grinder or wire wheel 
to clean up future training attempts.

clay

On Jun 5, 2015, at 3:42 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

 PC boxes are most likely clad with galvanize material. Galvanizing requires
 the base metal be coated with Zinc compounds which can and WILL contaminate
 your weld, thus welds that look like bird droppings. The job of rod flux is
 to carry away the contaminates in the weld puddle, but the flux core wire
 from China doesn't have enough volume of flux to combat zinc contamination
 of the weld puddle.. in fact.. if you were using gas, you would have to
 crank up the flow rate to over come it.
 
 The fact that you are having splatter and slag issues should have keyed me
 to tell you the zinc boiling off is likely the cause. I overlooked that..
 my apology.
 
 Try a welding a piece of the same material you have dressed with a grinding
 wheel to clean steel.. see if it doesn't give you a much better weld. I
 will lay bets it does.
 
 Go to your local steel supplier and pick up some end cut scraps for
 practice, in MILD STEEL only.. then run a few passes.. look at the
 difference.. you should see immediate good results.. even with crappy
 Chinese flux wire from Harbor Fright.
 
 A good part of welding is knowing the metalurgy of the metal you are
 joining.. and how it affects the weld.
 
 
 On Fri, Jun 5, 2015 at 3:28 PM, Dimitri via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 wrote:
 
 Unless you use shielding gas you will be unhappy with your results. I
 promise!
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Jun 5, 2015, at 4:33 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 wrote:
 
 The wire is garbage, but it came free with the welder. May as well burn
 through it.
 
 setting up feed speed is hit and miss for now.  It does not want to feed
 as slowly as the graph inside says I need it.  There are two amperage
 speeds.  Lots and not that much.  I could not get much speed or heat to get
 a good bead
 
 clay
 
 On Jun 5, 2015, at 1:12 PM, fmiser via Mercedes wrote:
 
 clay wrote:
 
 I could not get a decent bead using the PC carcasses and was
 getting a bunch of blow through.
 
 Thin sheet metal and gasless wirefeed is pretty tough.  Set
 the wire feed and amperage low.  And get some good wire.  The
 HF wire is junk.
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts

2015-06-06 Thread clay via Mercedes
I got a really nice Carhart jacket for $2 at goodwill.  Heavy denim that the 
gloves fit well over.   There was also a nice heavy cotton child's blanket from 
back in the day.  I will be stitching two layers of fiberglass to it so I have 
a welding blanket.  Maybe use it as a bib if I am welding at waist level.

clay

On Jun 5, 2015, at 6:25 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

 I would imagine the HF unit is basically a Chinese copy of my Lincoln 
 HandyMig. Mine has provision for shielding gas but I've never set it up, the 
 bottle would be decidedly un-handy, I'd need a cart for the thing, blah 
 blah.I think I paid $250 or so for mine and its been worth the money. I burn 
 through about 5# of wire a year. I've also been lucky to have some time on 
 multi-thousand dollar Miller machines with shielding gas and while those are 
 fantastic I'm not dissatisfied with my machine.The trick is that I tend to 
 end up using much more wire speed than I think I need and counter-intuitively 
 sheet metal usually requires more wire speed. When welding heavier stuff I 
 end up using the same wire speed or a little less, I turn the heat up and 
 just move slower which gives the penetration needed. This was hard for me to 
 learn after I'd taught myself how to do sheet metal.
 Theres definitely an art to it and since I haven't welded in 3 or 4 months I 
 know the next time I try it'll take me an hour or so to get the feel back. I 
 find for me moving the torch in little circles is the key to preventing burn 
 through. I generally push the puddle although I've had some success dragging 
 it, mostly when welding upside down like on a car floor.
 Remember that the coating on the wire will absorb water. A new spool of wire 
 is so nice which is why I only buy 5# at a time. My machine will handle a 20# 
 spool but it'd be gross by the time I got to the end. I *think* you could dry 
 it back out if you put it in a box with an incandescent bulb for a couple 
 hours but I've yet to try it...
 After I burned (and scarred) the inside of my elbow last fall Angie bought me 
 a welding shirt that has leather arms. Its not the height of fashion buts 
 nice to have that safety.
 
 -Curt
  From: Dimitri via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 Cc: Dimitri dsereta...@yahoo.com 
 Sent: Friday, June 5, 2015 6:28 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts
 
 Unless you use shielding gas you will be unhappy with your results. I promise!
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Jun 5, 2015, at 4:33 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 The wire is garbage, but it came free with the welder. May as well burn 
 through it.
 
 setting up feed speed is hit and miss for now.  It does not want to feed as 
 slowly as the graph inside says I need it.  There are two amperage speeds.  
 Lots and not that much.  I could not get much speed or heat to get a good 
 bead
 
 clay
 
 On Jun 5, 2015, at 1:12 PM, fmiser via Mercedes wrote:
 
 clay wrote:
 
 I could not get a decent bead using the PC carcasses and was
 getting a bunch of blow through.
 
 Thin sheet metal and gasless wirefeed is pretty tough.  Set
 the wire feed and amperage low.  And get some good wire.  The
 HF wire is junk.  
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts

2015-06-06 Thread clay via Mercedes
If I can make welds that look and perform well enough with this garbage unit, I 
will move up to a real gas shielded product for future projects.  If I can not 
keep from producing crap, I will give up on welding, having invested little in 
the attempt

clay


On Jun 5, 2015, at 3:28 PM, Dimitri via Mercedes wrote:

 Unless you use shielding gas you will be unhappy with your results. I promise!
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Jun 5, 2015, at 4:33 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 The wire is garbage, but it came free with the welder. May as well burn 
 through it.
 
 setting up feed speed is hit and miss for now.  It does not want to feed as 
 slowly as the graph inside says I need it.  There are two amperage speeds.  
 Lots and not that much.  I could not get much speed or heat to get a good 
 bead
 
 clay
 
 On Jun 5, 2015, at 1:12 PM, fmiser via Mercedes wrote:
 
 clay wrote:
 
 I could not get a decent bead using the PC carcasses and was
 getting a bunch of blow through.
 
 Thin sheet metal and gasless wirefeed is pretty tough.  Set
 the wire feed and amperage low.  And get some good wire.  The
 HF wire is junk.  
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts

2015-06-06 Thread clay via Mercedes
I am outside and will set up a fan to assist in moving toxins

clay

On Jun 5, 2015, at 3:53 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

 Not just sick.. but dead. .. welding galvanized metal in an enclosed space
 will kill you.
 The antidote, however is to drink milk... being lactose intollerent isn't
 going to help you there.. ha..
 
 Remove the victim to fresh air quickly and vent the area of toxic gases. Of
 course.
 
 On Fri, Jun 5, 2015 at 3:48 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 I'm not a welder, but I understand that welding galvanised steel produces
 fumes that can make you sick?
 --
 Max Dillon
 Charleston SC
 '87 300TD
 '95 E300
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Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts

2015-06-06 Thread Craig via Mercedes
On Sat, 6 Jun 2015 09:53:53 -0700 clay via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 If I can make welds that look and perform well enough with this garbage
 unit, I will move up to a real gas shielded product for future
 projects.  If I can not keep from producing crap, I will give up on
 welding, having invested little in the attempt

But if the garbage unit and wire are what is causing you to make welds
that do not look and perform well enough, you would have given up on
welding needlessly.

A spool of good wire is not that expensive ...


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts

2015-06-06 Thread clay via Mercedes
See, I am still on the upward curve

clay

On Jun 6, 2015, at 12:51 PM, Dimitri via Mercedes wrote:

 You mean tack welds. Spot welds are made by a dedicated spot welder.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Jun 6, 2015, at 3:31 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 It is the crap 90 amp 115v cheapo unit.  I want to get comfortable with it 
 making beads, but intend to mostly spot weld the panels for the floor.  With 
 enough spots, I figure I can then do mini beads to link them.
 
 
 clay 
 
 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately  well tailored chap
 1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
 1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
 POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 On Jun 6, 2015, at 11:06 AM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:
 
 I don't recall you saying. Is the welder you got 110 volt.. or 220 volt?
 
 You will find 110 volt wire feeds struggle to hold a stable arc thus have
 larger variation in the weld puddle temp and size.. With experience, the
 welder can adjust his handling of the weld to compensate.. some.. but he
 will always be behind the curve a little.
 
 On thicker material, it won't be so apparent.. as you go to thin sheet
 metal that lead / lag in arc stability and weld puddle temp becomes more
 critical..
 
 Yes, you can blame it on the machine in that instance. It will preform
 more acceptably using the spot weld tecnique than trying to run a continous
 bead because the shorter heat cycle will be more within it's capabilities.
 
 Adapt and Overcome...
 On Sat, Jun 6, 2015 at 9:53 AM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 wrote:
 
 If I can make welds that look and perform well enough with this garbage
 unit, I will move up to a real gas shielded product for future projects.
 If I can not keep from producing crap, I will give up on welding, having
 invested little in the attempt
 
 clay
 
 
 On Jun 5, 2015, at 3:28 PM, Dimitri via Mercedes wrote:
 
 Unless you use shielding gas you will be unhappy with your results. I
 promise!
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Jun 5, 2015, at 4:33 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 wrote:
 
 The wire is garbage, but it came free with the welder. May as well burn
 through it.
 
 setting up feed speed is hit and miss for now.  It does not want to
 feed as slowly as the graph inside says I need it.  There are two amperage
 speeds.  Lots and not that much.  I could not get much speed or heat to get
 a good bead
 
 clay
 
 On Jun 5, 2015, at 1:12 PM, fmiser via Mercedes wrote:
 
 clay wrote:
 
 I could not get a decent bead using the PC carcasses and was
 getting a bunch of blow through.
 
 Thin sheet metal and gasless wirefeed is pretty tough.  Set
 the wire feed and amperage low.  And get some good wire.  The
 HF wire is junk.
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts

2015-06-06 Thread Curly McLain via Mercedes
I didn't know that about 110V machines. My welder is 110 and I make 
perfect butt welds on sheet metal but now I'm interested in trying a 
220 machine.


Sent from my iPhone


Nicest welder I have ever used  was a huge old motor  (electric) 
generator generating DC to weld with.  I t weighed literally close to 
a ton.  With 6010 rods, it was terrific welding.  Some of the 70xx 
rods I was adequate with but I loved the 6010s with that motor gen.




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Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts

2015-06-06 Thread Curly McLain via Mercedes
Using a shit welder will make you give up on welding. Spend $600 on 
a real welder and make good welds from day one. Been there done 
that. Trust me.


Sent from my iPhone


The Master has spoken!

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Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts

2015-06-06 Thread Jim Cathey via Mercedes

Don't waste your time on anything but clean metal.
Not 'til you have some experience, anyway.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts

2015-06-06 Thread clay via Mercedes
It is the crap 90 amp 115v cheapo unit.  I want to get comfortable with it 
making beads, but intend to mostly spot weld the panels for the floor.  With 
enough spots, I figure I can then do mini beads to link them.


clay 

2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately  well tailored chap
1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers








On Jun 6, 2015, at 11:06 AM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

 I don't recall you saying. Is the welder you got 110 volt.. or 220 volt?
 
 You will find 110 volt wire feeds struggle to hold a stable arc thus have
 larger variation in the weld puddle temp and size.. With experience, the
 welder can adjust his handling of the weld to compensate.. some.. but he
 will always be behind the curve a little.
 
 On thicker material, it won't be so apparent.. as you go to thin sheet
 metal that lead / lag in arc stability and weld puddle temp becomes more
 critical..
 
 Yes, you can blame it on the machine in that instance. It will preform
 more acceptably using the spot weld tecnique than trying to run a continous
 bead because the shorter heat cycle will be more within it's capabilities.
 
 Adapt and Overcome...
 On Sat, Jun 6, 2015 at 9:53 AM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 wrote:
 
 If I can make welds that look and perform well enough with this garbage
 unit, I will move up to a real gas shielded product for future projects.
 If I can not keep from producing crap, I will give up on welding, having
 invested little in the attempt
 
 clay
 
 
 On Jun 5, 2015, at 3:28 PM, Dimitri via Mercedes wrote:
 
 Unless you use shielding gas you will be unhappy with your results. I
 promise!
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Jun 5, 2015, at 4:33 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 wrote:
 
 The wire is garbage, but it came free with the welder. May as well burn
 through it.
 
 setting up feed speed is hit and miss for now.  It does not want to
 feed as slowly as the graph inside says I need it.  There are two amperage
 speeds.  Lots and not that much.  I could not get much speed or heat to get
 a good bead
 
 clay
 
 On Jun 5, 2015, at 1:12 PM, fmiser via Mercedes wrote:
 
 clay wrote:
 
 I could not get a decent bead using the PC carcasses and was
 getting a bunch of blow through.
 
 Thin sheet metal and gasless wirefeed is pretty tough.  Set
 the wire feed and amperage low.  And get some good wire.  The
 HF wire is junk.
 
 
 ___
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Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts

2015-06-06 Thread Dimitri via Mercedes
You mean tack welds. Spot welds are made by a dedicated spot welder.

Sent from my iPhone

 On Jun 6, 2015, at 3:31 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 It is the crap 90 amp 115v cheapo unit.  I want to get comfortable with it 
 making beads, but intend to mostly spot weld the panels for the floor.  With 
 enough spots, I figure I can then do mini beads to link them.
 
 
 clay 
 
 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately  well tailored chap
 1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
 1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
 POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 On Jun 6, 2015, at 11:06 AM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:
 
 I don't recall you saying. Is the welder you got 110 volt.. or 220 volt?
 
 You will find 110 volt wire feeds struggle to hold a stable arc thus have
 larger variation in the weld puddle temp and size.. With experience, the
 welder can adjust his handling of the weld to compensate.. some.. but he
 will always be behind the curve a little.
 
 On thicker material, it won't be so apparent.. as you go to thin sheet
 metal that lead / lag in arc stability and weld puddle temp becomes more
 critical..
 
 Yes, you can blame it on the machine in that instance. It will preform
 more acceptably using the spot weld tecnique than trying to run a continous
 bead because the shorter heat cycle will be more within it's capabilities.
 
 Adapt and Overcome...
 On Sat, Jun 6, 2015 at 9:53 AM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 wrote:
 
 If I can make welds that look and perform well enough with this garbage
 unit, I will move up to a real gas shielded product for future projects.
 If I can not keep from producing crap, I will give up on welding, having
 invested little in the attempt
 
 clay
 
 
 On Jun 5, 2015, at 3:28 PM, Dimitri via Mercedes wrote:
 
 Unless you use shielding gas you will be unhappy with your results. I
 promise!
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Jun 5, 2015, at 4:33 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 wrote:
 
 The wire is garbage, but it came free with the welder. May as well burn
 through it.
 
 setting up feed speed is hit and miss for now.  It does not want to
 feed as slowly as the graph inside says I need it.  There are two amperage
 speeds.  Lots and not that much.  I could not get much speed or heat to get
 a good bead
 
 clay
 
 On Jun 5, 2015, at 1:12 PM, fmiser via Mercedes wrote:
 
 clay wrote:
 
 I could not get a decent bead using the PC carcasses and was
 getting a bunch of blow through.
 
 Thin sheet metal and gasless wirefeed is pretty tough.  Set
 the wire feed and amperage low.  And get some good wire.  The
 HF wire is junk.
 
 
 ___
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Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts

2015-06-06 Thread clay via Mercedes
I have all of 40 minutes into the training as of this moment.  I expect to have 
a few more hours and bits of metal under my belt by the end of next week.  If I 
am still making welds that look like something you find in a diaper, I will 
re-evaluate my competence.

clay

On Jun 6, 2015, at 10:20 AM, Craig via Mercedes wrote:

 On Sat, 6 Jun 2015 09:53:53 -0700 clay via Mercedes
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 If I can make welds that look and perform well enough with this garbage
 unit, I will move up to a real gas shielded product for future
 projects.  If I can not keep from producing crap, I will give up on
 welding, having invested little in the attempt
 
 But if the garbage unit and wire are what is causing you to make welds
 that do not look and perform well enough, you would have given up on
 welding needlessly.
 
 A spool of good wire is not that expensive ...
 
 
 Craig
 
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Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts

2015-06-06 Thread Dimitri via Mercedes
Using a shit welder will make you give up on welding. Spend $600 on a real 
welder and make good welds from day one. Been there done that. Trust me. 

Sent from my iPhone

 On Jun 6, 2015, at 12:53 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 If I can make welds that look and perform well enough with this garbage unit, 
 I will move up to a real gas shielded product for future projects.  If I can 
 not keep from producing crap, I will give up on welding, having invested 
 little in the attempt
 
 clay
 
 
 On Jun 5, 2015, at 3:28 PM, Dimitri via Mercedes wrote:
 
 Unless you use shielding gas you will be unhappy with your results. I 
 promise!
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Jun 5, 2015, at 4:33 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 The wire is garbage, but it came free with the welder. May as well burn 
 through it.
 
 setting up feed speed is hit and miss for now.  It does not want to feed as 
 slowly as the graph inside says I need it.  There are two amperage speeds.  
 Lots and not that much.  I could not get much speed or heat to get a good 
 bead
 
 clay
 
 On Jun 5, 2015, at 1:12 PM, fmiser via Mercedes wrote:
 
 clay wrote:
 
 I could not get a decent bead using the PC carcasses and was
 getting a bunch of blow through.
 
 Thin sheet metal and gasless wirefeed is pretty tough.  Set
 the wire feed and amperage low.  And get some good wire.  The
 HF wire is junk.  
 
 
 ___
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Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts

2015-06-06 Thread G Mann via Mercedes
I don't recall you saying. Is the welder you got 110 volt.. or 220 volt?

You will find 110 volt wire feeds struggle to hold a stable arc thus have
larger variation in the weld puddle temp and size.. With experience, the
welder can adjust his handling of the weld to compensate.. some.. but he
will always be behind the curve a little.

On thicker material, it won't be so apparent.. as you go to thin sheet
metal that lead / lag in arc stability and weld puddle temp becomes more
critical..

Yes, you can blame it on the machine in that instance. It will preform
more acceptably using the spot weld tecnique than trying to run a continous
bead because the shorter heat cycle will be more within it's capabilities.

Adapt and Overcome...
On Sat, Jun 6, 2015 at 9:53 AM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
wrote:

 If I can make welds that look and perform well enough with this garbage
 unit, I will move up to a real gas shielded product for future projects.
 If I can not keep from producing crap, I will give up on welding, having
 invested little in the attempt

 clay


 On Jun 5, 2015, at 3:28 PM, Dimitri via Mercedes wrote:

  Unless you use shielding gas you will be unhappy with your results. I
 promise!
 
  Sent from my iPhone
 
  On Jun 5, 2015, at 4:33 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 wrote:
 
  The wire is garbage, but it came free with the welder. May as well burn
 through it.
 
  setting up feed speed is hit and miss for now.  It does not want to
 feed as slowly as the graph inside says I need it.  There are two amperage
 speeds.  Lots and not that much.  I could not get much speed or heat to get
 a good bead
 
  clay
 
  On Jun 5, 2015, at 1:12 PM, fmiser via Mercedes wrote:
 
  clay wrote:
 
  I could not get a decent bead using the PC carcasses and was
  getting a bunch of blow through.
 
  Thin sheet metal and gasless wirefeed is pretty tough.  Set
  the wire feed and amperage low.  And get some good wire.  The
  HF wire is junk.
 
 
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  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts

2015-06-05 Thread Randy Bennell via Mercedes


Nomex underwear is required for the racetrack anyway so you may as well 
get it now!


RB

On 05/06/2015 1:28 PM, clay via Mercedes wrote:

I hit the HF tool sale and got myself a low end gasless MIG welder to learn on. 
 Wire feed and the cheapo auto darkening mask.  I read the instructions to see 
what this thing can do.  Those instructions are big on safety, but not on 
actually how to run the rig.

I went to the hardware store to get a hardi panel so I could have a welding 
table.  There were too many metal or wooden tables for me to use, but the 
manual was pretty adamant that I have concrete to set things on.  So far it 
works fairly well.

I have a few old computer cases that donated their covers for the day I am 
versed in welding enough to repair the floors in the 300D.  Today, I learned 
that I need a hat to keep the slag from jumping onto the back of my head.  I 
could not get a decent bead using the PC carcasses and was getting a bunch of 
blow through.  I moved up to old brake rotors and was able to get a decent 
enough bead, but it still looks like crap.   Sun was out and after 40 minutes 
or getting a hang for the machine, I had to head inside.

I will be looking for a better set of welding wear so I can keep from setting 
myself on fire.


clay

2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately  well tailored chap
1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers








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Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts

2015-06-05 Thread Gerry Archer via Mercedes
Didn't someone (Curt?) say tht HF wire was no good and we must buy good wire 
from a regular welding supply dealer? 
Also, he should be sure pants legs go down over shoe or boot tops. A drop of 
liquid steel down in the shoe is a common event that can cause wild dancing and 
serious burns. Don't ask me how I know.
Gerry

Randy Bennell wrote:

 
 Nomex underwear is required for the racetrack anyway so you may as well 
 get it now!
 
 RB
 
 On 05/06/2015 1:28 PM, clay via Mercedes wrote:
  I hit the HF tool sale and got myself a low end gasless MIG welder to learn 
  on.  Wire feed and the cheapo auto darkening mask.  I read the instructions 
  to see what this thing can do.  Those instructions are big on safety, but 
  not on actually how to run the rig.
 
  I went to the hardware store to get a hardi panel so I could have a welding 
  table.  There were too many metal or wooden tables for me to use, but the 
  manual was pretty adamant that I have concrete to set things on.  So far it 
  works fairly well.
 
  I have a few old computer cases that donated their covers for the day I am 
  versed in welding enough to repair the floors in the 300D.  Today, I 
  learned that I need a hat to keep the slag from jumping onto the back of my 
  head.  I could not get a decent bead using the PC carcasses and was getting 
  a bunch of blow through.  I moved up to old brake rotors and was able to 
  get a decent enough bead, but it still looks like crap.   Sun was out and 
  after 40 minutes or getting a hang for the machine, I had to head inside.
 
  I will be looking for a better set of welding wear so I can keep from 
  setting myself on fire.
 
 
  clay
 
  2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately  well tailored chap
  1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
  1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
  1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
  1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
  POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
  http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 
 
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-- 
Gerry Archer arche...@embarqmail.com

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Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts

2015-06-05 Thread G Mann via Mercedes
Welcome to the cult of vulcan.

Put the hat on backwards, getto style to keep sparks from flying down your
collar. Wear welders gloves with long cuffs, and wear at least a denium
jacket to protect yourself from slag and UV flash.

You can get badly sunburned while welding if your skin is exposed. Eyes can
be sunburned as well.. doing perm damage if bad enough.

If you are getting burn through, your heat setting is to high, and your
wire feed speed is to low, and perhaps your pass speed is to slow.

Look for the weld puddle, color and size, that is where the actual weld
happens. Think of it as pouring liquid metal into the crack and moving the
pour along the crack seam. Stay to long with to much heat, and not enouch
metal, it pours through the crack.

Practice, practice, practice.. use scrap and learn. For sheet metal patch
repair.. a lap joint will serve you better than a butt weld. I use 1/4 inch
punch holes in the repair piece edge, 1/16th inch clecos to clamp the piece
in place at every other hole, then do a spot weld at the 1/4 inch punch
hole, pull the clecos one or two at a time and weld the rest of the panel
in place. Hammer and dolly to flatten the panel edges into the base metal.
Space the spot welds as you see fit.  If you feel you need more weld than
the spot welds, then weld the seam with the repair panel now held in place
by the spots. Makes the work much easier and quicker.

Cardboard will be your friend to make patterns for the repair panels. Cut
out the bad portions, use round corners, I like to use a baby food can to
make corners in a repair panel.. sharp 90 degree corners will always crack
out and are hard to hold in place. Hold the cardboard in place from the
bottom and mark the hole with a sharpie, then add 1/2 inch at the edge for
a lap joint all the way around.

Harbor Freight sells a nifty tool that will make a joggle offset for a
lapjoint.. it is a double duty tool because one side makes the joggle
offset, the other side punches 1/4 inch holes for spot welds.. it runs on
air, so you need an air compressor.. a small one will work good enough.

Measure twice, cut once, then hammer form the patch to fit the hole repair.
When it's just right, the lap joint lip will let you set the panel in place
from the inside, and it will lay in place supported by the lap joint
overlap. You will likely need to then do some more hammer and dolly work to
make the lap lay flat against the original panel. When it's all fitted
THEN use the joggle feature around the edge of the patch panel and trial
fit again. Once you are happy with that, while it's laying in place, use
your sharpie again to layout the spot welds and punch the 1/4 in holes in
the patch panel. Lay it back in place and put your sharpie to work again by
making a dot in the center of each of those 1/4 in holes to drill holes for
the Clecos clamps.

THEN.. clamp the New panel in place for welding. Spot welding with a wire
feed gun is simple.. aim the wire at the center of the spot, drop hood,
pull trigger, make a small circle to pour liquid metal into the hole
[visual image here] and back off to let it cool. Move to next hole.  What
you are doing, is putting a 1/4 inch bolt in each hole, in effect.

I like to work the panel repair from side to side so the weld doesn't draw
the panel out of position.. tack one side.. then the other.. to work around
the whole contact area.  Then pull the CLecos and do the same with those
holes.. don't worry, the weld will fill the 1/16 cleco hole just fine..

Keep a hammer and dolly handy to flatten the welds while they are still
cooling after each weld. it will give a much nicer finish.. ie.. weld,
hammer, weld, hammer.. etc etc etc..

When you have had enough fun..you should replenish your lost body fluids
with the adult beverage of choice... ;))

Hope this helps,

Grant...
On Fri, Jun 5, 2015 at 11:28 AM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
wrote:

 I hit the HF tool sale and got myself a low end gasless MIG welder to
 learn on.  Wire feed and the cheapo auto darkening mask.  I read the
 instructions to see what this thing can do.  Those instructions are big on
 safety, but not on actually how to run the rig.

 I went to the hardware store to get a hardi panel so I could have a
 welding table.  There were too many metal or wooden tables for me to use,
 but the manual was pretty adamant that I have concrete to set things on.
 So far it works fairly well.

 I have a few old computer cases that donated their covers for the day I am
 versed in welding enough to repair the floors in the 300D.  Today, I
 learned that I need a hat to keep the slag from jumping onto the back of my
 head.  I could not get a decent bead using the PC carcasses and was getting
 a bunch of blow through.  I moved up to old brake rotors and was able to
 get a decent enough bead, but it still looks like crap.   Sun was out and
 after 40 minutes or getting a hang for the machine, I had to head inside.

 I will be looking for a better set 

Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts

2015-06-05 Thread fmiser via Mercedes
 clay wrote:
 
 I could not get a decent bead using the PC carcasses and was
 getting a bunch of blow through.

Thin sheet metal and gasless wirefeed is pretty tough.  Set
the wire feed and amperage low.  And get some good wire.  The
HF wire is junk.  


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Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts

2015-06-05 Thread clay via Mercedes
The wire is garbage, but it came free with the welder. May as well burn through 
it.

setting up feed speed is hit and miss for now.  It does not want to feed as 
slowly as the graph inside says I need it.  There are two amperage speeds.  
Lots and not that much.  I could not get much speed or heat to get a good bead

clay

On Jun 5, 2015, at 1:12 PM, fmiser via Mercedes wrote:

 clay wrote:
 
 I could not get a decent bead using the PC carcasses and was
 getting a bunch of blow through.
 
 Thin sheet metal and gasless wirefeed is pretty tough.  Set
 the wire feed and amperage low.  And get some good wire.  The
 HF wire is junk.  
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts

2015-06-05 Thread clay via Mercedes
I am headed to the Goodwill outlet store to see what non-fashionable items I 
can repurpose to welding wear.  The clothing sells by the pound.  I found all 
manner of good stuff there for hunting and should come across busted leathers 
or other fire resistant items.  

I picked up some really nice welding gloves a few months ago.  Long neck and 
smooth fingers.  Nomex interior.  The auto dark mask I got does not provide 
coverage between the front of the skull and the face shield.  Bright sunshine 
glowing off my forehead sort of defeats the ability to see the bead being 
formed.  Maybe I can get a clorox bottle riveted to the top




clay 

2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately  well tailored chap
1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers








On Jun 5, 2015, at 12:22 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote:

 My brother-in-law had the hot slag in the boot issue one time. Just putting 
 the pantleg over the boot does not prevent the problem if the slag burns 
 through the pantleg which is what happened with him.
 Either lace up the top of the boot so it cannot get into the boot or else 
 loosen the boot so that you can easily kick it off.
 
 He was welding an exhaust under a car on a hoist and he is quite tall so he 
 was bent a bit at the knees. The slag dropped onto his leg, burned a hole 
 through his pants and then fell into his boot top. He of course, shook his 
 let and the slag went deeper into his boot and burned his foot before he 
 could get his boot off. He was off work for several days. He learned a good 
 lesson as that must be close to 20 years ago and he has not had it happen 
 since that I know of.
 
 RB
 
 On 05/06/2015 2:10 PM, Gerry Archer via Mercedes wrote:
 Didn't someone (Curt?) say tht HF wire was no good and we must buy good wire 
 from a regular welding supply dealer?
 Also, he should be sure pants legs go down over shoe or boot tops. A drop of 
 liquid steel down in the shoe is a common event that can cause wild dancing 
 and serious burns. Don't ask me how I know.
 Gerry
 
 Randy Bennell wrote:
 
 Nomex underwear is required for the racetrack anyway so you may as well
 get it now!
 
 RB
 
 On 05/06/2015 1:28 PM, clay via Mercedes wrote:
 I hit the HF tool sale and got myself a low end gasless MIG welder to 
 learn on.  Wire feed and the cheapo auto darkening mask.  I read the 
 instructions to see what this thing can do.  Those instructions are big on 
 safety, but not on actually how to run the rig.
 
 I went to the hardware store to get a hardi panel so I could have a 
 welding table.  There were too many metal or wooden tables for me to use, 
 but the manual was pretty adamant that I have concrete to set things on.  
 So far it works fairly well.
 
 I have a few old computer cases that donated their covers for the day I am 
 versed in welding enough to repair the floors in the 300D.  Today, I 
 learned that I need a hat to keep the slag from jumping onto the back of 
 my head.  I could not get a decent bead using the PC carcasses and was 
 getting a bunch of blow through.  I moved up to old brake rotors and was 
 able to get a decent enough bead, but it still looks like crap.   Sun was 
 out and after 40 minutes or getting a hang for the machine, I had to head 
 inside.
 
 I will be looking for a better set of welding wear so I can keep from 
 setting myself on fire.
 
 
 clay
 
 
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts

2015-06-05 Thread Randy Bennell via Mercedes
My brother-in-law had the hot slag in the boot issue one time. Just 
putting the pantleg over the boot does not prevent the problem if the 
slag burns through the pantleg which is what happened with him.
Either lace up the top of the boot so it cannot get into the boot or 
else loosen the boot so that you can easily kick it off.


He was welding an exhaust under a car on a hoist and he is quite tall so 
he was bent a bit at the knees. The slag dropped onto his leg, burned a 
hole through his pants and then fell into his boot top. He of course, 
shook his let and the slag went deeper into his boot and burned his foot 
before he could get his boot off. He was off work for several days. He 
learned a good lesson as that must be close to 20 years ago and he has 
not had it happen since that I know of.


RB

On 05/06/2015 2:10 PM, Gerry Archer via Mercedes wrote:

Didn't someone (Curt?) say tht HF wire was no good and we must buy good wire 
from a regular welding supply dealer?
Also, he should be sure pants legs go down over shoe or boot tops. A drop of 
liquid steel down in the shoe is a common event that can cause wild dancing and 
serious burns. Don't ask me how I know.
Gerry

Randy Bennell wrote:


Nomex underwear is required for the racetrack anyway so you may as well
get it now!

RB

On 05/06/2015 1:28 PM, clay via Mercedes wrote:

I hit the HF tool sale and got myself a low end gasless MIG welder to learn on. 
 Wire feed and the cheapo auto darkening mask.  I read the instructions to see 
what this thing can do.  Those instructions are big on safety, but not on 
actually how to run the rig.

I went to the hardware store to get a hardi panel so I could have a welding 
table.  There were too many metal or wooden tables for me to use, but the 
manual was pretty adamant that I have concrete to set things on.  So far it 
works fairly well.

I have a few old computer cases that donated their covers for the day I am 
versed in welding enough to repair the floors in the 300D.  Today, I learned 
that I need a hat to keep the slag from jumping onto the back of my head.  I 
could not get a decent bead using the PC carcasses and was getting a bunch of 
blow through.  I moved up to old brake rotors and was able to get a decent 
enough bead, but it still looks like crap.   Sun was out and after 40 minutes 
or getting a hang for the machine, I had to head inside.

I will be looking for a better set of welding wear so I can keep from setting 
myself on fire.


clay





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Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts

2015-06-05 Thread Curly McLain via Mercedes
Didn't someone (Curt?) say tht HF wire was no good and we must buy 
good wire from a regular welding supply dealer?
Also, he should be sure pants legs go down over shoe or boot tops. A 
drop of liquid steel down in the shoe is a common event that can 
cause wild dancing and serious burns. Don't ask me how I know.

Gerry


Good point, but my jeans and bibs are long enough to touch the 
LEATHER shoe/boot.  You don't want plastic shoes either...


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Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts

2015-06-05 Thread G Mann via Mercedes
The only time welders wear pants with a cuff is the first day on the job.

Any questions?  haha..

Wire feed welders should not make a lot of slag if set correctly. If it is
a flux core wire welder, it will make slag, if it is a gas envelope welder,
hardly any sparks.. much nicer welds also. Worth the extra money in my
opinion.

Key element is getting the wire speed and heat setting correct for the
thickness of metal you are welding.. play with them until you can lay down
a nice even weld with good penetration but no burn through. Speed of the
weld pass is the human factor that has to come with practice.

On Fri, Jun 5, 2015 at 12:22 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 My brother-in-law had the hot slag in the boot issue one time. Just
 putting the pantleg over the boot does not prevent the problem if the slag
 burns through the pantleg which is what happened with him.
 Either lace up the top of the boot so it cannot get into the boot or else
 loosen the boot so that you can easily kick it off.

 He was welding an exhaust under a car on a hoist and he is quite tall so
 he was bent a bit at the knees. The slag dropped onto his leg, burned a
 hole through his pants and then fell into his boot top. He of course, shook
 his let and the slag went deeper into his boot and burned his foot before
 he could get his boot off. He was off work for several days. He learned a
 good lesson as that must be close to 20 years ago and he has not had it
 happen since that I know of.

 RB

 On 05/06/2015 2:10 PM, Gerry Archer via Mercedes wrote:

 Didn't someone (Curt?) say tht HF wire was no good and we must buy good
 wire from a regular welding supply dealer?
 Also, he should be sure pants legs go down over shoe or boot tops. A drop
 of liquid steel down in the shoe is a common event that can cause wild
 dancing and serious burns. Don't ask me how I know.
 Gerry

 Randy Bennell wrote:

  Nomex underwear is required for the racetrack anyway so you may as well
 get it now!

 RB

 On 05/06/2015 1:28 PM, clay via Mercedes wrote:

 I hit the HF tool sale and got myself a low end gasless MIG welder to
 learn on.  Wire feed and the cheapo auto darkening mask.  I read the
 instructions to see what this thing can do.  Those instructions are big on
 safety, but not on actually how to run the rig.

 I went to the hardware store to get a hardi panel so I could have a
 welding table.  There were too many metal or wooden tables for me to use,
 but the manual was pretty adamant that I have concrete to set things on.
 So far it works fairly well.

 I have a few old computer cases that donated their covers for the day I
 am versed in welding enough to repair the floors in the 300D.  Today, I
 learned that I need a hat to keep the slag from jumping onto the back of my
 head.  I could not get a decent bead using the PC carcasses and was getting
 a bunch of blow through.  I moved up to old brake rotors and was able to
 get a decent enough bead, but it still looks like crap.   Sun was out and
 after 40 minutes or getting a hang for the machine, I had to head inside.

 I will be looking for a better set of welding wear so I can keep from
 setting myself on fire.


 clay




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Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts

2015-06-05 Thread Curly McLain via Mercedes



I will be looking for a better set of welding wear so I can keep 
from setting myself on fire.


clay


Cotton.  No synthetics.

I often weld in a tshirt and jeans.  Nothing special.  A long sleeve 
Wrangler cotton  denim shirt is good too, if it is cool enough.  mine 
has no holes in it, but I don't weld much anymore.  I sold my John 
Deere stick welder on fleaby because i figured out I'll never have 
enough money to collect John Deeres.  got a little century FCAW 
welder to weld sheet metal.


I never wear a cap unless I am trying to weld overhead, and I try to 
avoid that.


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Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts

2015-06-05 Thread clay via Mercedes
I am going to play with this thing all next week.  I figured the HF garbage 
flux core welder would be less expensive than a class with 30 other monkeys.  
If I get a really good handle on welding, then I would find a real welder at a 
pawn shop.  Doing the floor pan repairs on the HF unit will probably kill it.  
Making the roll cage would require something by Lincoln.

clay

On Jun 5, 2015, at 12:32 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

 The only time welders wear pants with a cuff is the first day on the job.
 
 Any questions?  haha..
 
 Wire feed welders should not make a lot of slag if set correctly. If it is
 a flux core wire welder, it will make slag, if it is a gas envelope welder,
 hardly any sparks.. much nicer welds also. Worth the extra money in my
 opinion.
 
 Key element is getting the wire speed and heat setting correct for the
 thickness of metal you are welding.. play with them until you can lay down
 a nice even weld with good penetration but no burn through. Speed of the
 weld pass is the human factor that has to come with practice.
 
 On Fri, Jun 5, 2015 at 12:22 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 My brother-in-law had the hot slag in the boot issue one time. Just
 putting the pantleg over the boot does not prevent the problem if the slag
 burns through the pantleg which is what happened with him.
 Either lace up the top of the boot so it cannot get into the boot or else
 loosen the boot so that you can easily kick it off.
 
 He was welding an exhaust under a car on a hoist and he is quite tall so
 he was bent a bit at the knees. The slag dropped onto his leg, burned a
 hole through his pants and then fell into his boot top. He of course, shook
 his let and the slag went deeper into his boot and burned his foot before
 he could get his boot off. He was off work for several days. He learned a
 good lesson as that must be close to 20 years ago and he has not had it
 happen since that I know of.
 
 RB
 
 On 05/06/2015 2:10 PM, Gerry Archer via Mercedes wrote:
 
 Didn't someone (Curt?) say tht HF wire was no good and we must buy good
 wire from a regular welding supply dealer?
 Also, he should be sure pants legs go down over shoe or boot tops. A drop
 of liquid steel down in the shoe is a common event that can cause wild
 dancing and serious burns. Don't ask me how I know.
 Gerry
 
 Randy Bennell wrote:
 
 Nomex underwear is required for the racetrack anyway so you may as well
 get it now!
 
 RB
 
 On 05/06/2015 1:28 PM, clay via Mercedes wrote:
 
 I hit the HF tool sale and got myself a low end gasless MIG welder to
 learn on.  Wire feed and the cheapo auto darkening mask.  I read the
 instructions to see what this thing can do.  Those instructions are big on
 safety, but not on actually how to run the rig.
 
 I went to the hardware store to get a hardi panel so I could have a
 welding table.  There were too many metal or wooden tables for me to use,
 but the manual was pretty adamant that I have concrete to set things on.
 So far it works fairly well.
 
 I have a few old computer cases that donated their covers for the day I
 am versed in welding enough to repair the floors in the 300D.  Today, I
 learned that I need a hat to keep the slag from jumping onto the back of 
 my
 head.  I could not get a decent bead using the PC carcasses and was 
 getting
 a bunch of blow through.  I moved up to old brake rotors and was able to
 get a decent enough bead, but it still looks like crap.   Sun was out and
 after 40 minutes or getting a hang for the machine, I had to head inside.
 
 I will be looking for a better set of welding wear so I can keep from
 setting myself on fire.
 
 
 clay
 
 
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts

2015-06-05 Thread Dimitri via Mercedes
Unless you use shielding gas you will be unhappy with your results. I promise!

Sent from my iPhone

 On Jun 5, 2015, at 4:33 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 The wire is garbage, but it came free with the welder. May as well burn 
 through it.
 
 setting up feed speed is hit and miss for now.  It does not want to feed as 
 slowly as the graph inside says I need it.  There are two amperage speeds.  
 Lots and not that much.  I could not get much speed or heat to get a good bead
 
 clay
 
 On Jun 5, 2015, at 1:12 PM, fmiser via Mercedes wrote:
 
 clay wrote:
 
 I could not get a decent bead using the PC carcasses and was
 getting a bunch of blow through.
 
 Thin sheet metal and gasless wirefeed is pretty tough.  Set
 the wire feed and amperage low.  And get some good wire.  The
 HF wire is junk.  
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts

2015-06-05 Thread Max Dillon via Mercedes
I'm not a welder, but I understand that welding galvanised steel produces fumes 
that can make you sick?
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300
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Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts

2015-06-05 Thread G Mann via Mercedes
PC boxes are most likely clad with galvanize material. Galvanizing requires
the base metal be coated with Zinc compounds which can and WILL contaminate
your weld, thus welds that look like bird droppings. The job of rod flux is
to carry away the contaminates in the weld puddle, but the flux core wire
from China doesn't have enough volume of flux to combat zinc contamination
of the weld puddle.. in fact.. if you were using gas, you would have to
crank up the flow rate to over come it.

The fact that you are having splatter and slag issues should have keyed me
to tell you the zinc boiling off is likely the cause. I overlooked that..
my apology.

Try a welding a piece of the same material you have dressed with a grinding
wheel to clean steel.. see if it doesn't give you a much better weld. I
will lay bets it does.

Go to your local steel supplier and pick up some end cut scraps for
practice, in MILD STEEL only.. then run a few passes.. look at the
difference.. you should see immediate good results.. even with crappy
Chinese flux wire from Harbor Fright.

A good part of welding is knowing the metalurgy of the metal you are
joining.. and how it affects the weld.


On Fri, Jun 5, 2015 at 3:28 PM, Dimitri via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
wrote:

 Unless you use shielding gas you will be unhappy with your results. I
 promise!

 Sent from my iPhone

  On Jun 5, 2015, at 4:33 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 wrote:
 
  The wire is garbage, but it came free with the welder. May as well burn
 through it.
 
  setting up feed speed is hit and miss for now.  It does not want to feed
 as slowly as the graph inside says I need it.  There are two amperage
 speeds.  Lots and not that much.  I could not get much speed or heat to get
 a good bead
 
  clay
 
  On Jun 5, 2015, at 1:12 PM, fmiser via Mercedes wrote:
 
  clay wrote:
 
  I could not get a decent bead using the PC carcasses and was
  getting a bunch of blow through.
 
  Thin sheet metal and gasless wirefeed is pretty tough.  Set
  the wire feed and amperage low.  And get some good wire.  The
  HF wire is junk.
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts

2015-06-05 Thread Dimitri via Mercedes
Yes. Always grind off the galvanized area to clean metal before welding. If one 
really wants a clean weld, the area to be welded should be free from dirt, 
grease, paint and rust including the back side of the metal. Some people go as 
far as to wipe clean with denatured alcohol.

Sent from my iPhone

 On Jun 5, 2015, at 6:48 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 wrote:
 
 I'm not a welder, but I understand that welding galvanised steel produces 
 fumes that can make you sick?
 -- 
 Max Dillon
 Charleston SC
 '87 300TD
 '95 E300
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Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts

2015-06-05 Thread G Mann via Mercedes
Not just sick.. but dead. .. welding galvanized metal in an enclosed space
will kill you.
The antidote, however is to drink milk... being lactose intollerent isn't
going to help you there.. ha..

Remove the victim to fresh air quickly and vent the area of toxic gases. Of
course.

On Fri, Jun 5, 2015 at 3:48 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 I'm not a welder, but I understand that welding galvanised steel produces
 fumes that can make you sick?
 --
 Max Dillon
 Charleston SC
 '87 300TD
 '95 E300
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Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts

2015-06-05 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
I would imagine the HF unit is basically a Chinese copy of my Lincoln HandyMig. 
Mine has provision for shielding gas but I've never set it up, the bottle would 
be decidedly un-handy, I'd need a cart for the thing, blah blah.I think I paid 
$250 or so for mine and its been worth the money. I burn through about 5# of 
wire a year. I've also been lucky to have some time on multi-thousand dollar 
Miller machines with shielding gas and while those are fantastic I'm not 
dissatisfied with my machine.The trick is that I tend to end up using much more 
wire speed than I think I need and counter-intuitively sheet metal usually 
requires more wire speed. When welding heavier stuff I end up using the same 
wire speed or a little less, I turn the heat up and just move slower which 
gives the penetration needed. This was hard for me to learn after I'd taught 
myself how to do sheet metal.
Theres definitely an art to it and since I haven't welded in 3 or 4 months I 
know the next time I try it'll take me an hour or so to get the feel back. I 
find for me moving the torch in little circles is the key to preventing burn 
through. I generally push the puddle although I've had some success dragging 
it, mostly when welding upside down like on a car floor.
Remember that the coating on the wire will absorb water. A new spool of wire is 
so nice which is why I only buy 5# at a time. My machine will handle a 20# 
spool but it'd be gross by the time I got to the end. I *think* you could dry 
it back out if you put it in a box with an incandescent bulb for a couple hours 
but I've yet to try it...
After I burned (and scarred) the inside of my elbow last fall Angie bought me a 
welding shirt that has leather arms. Its not the height of fashion buts nice to 
have that safety.

-Curt
  From: Dimitri via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Cc: Dimitri dsereta...@yahoo.com 
 Sent: Friday, June 5, 2015 6:28 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts
   
Unless you use shielding gas you will be unhappy with your results. I promise!

Sent from my iPhone

 On Jun 5, 2015, at 4:33 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 The wire is garbage, but it came free with the welder. May as well burn 
 through it.
 
 setting up feed speed is hit and miss for now.  It does not want to feed as 
 slowly as the graph inside says I need it.  There are two amperage speeds.  
 Lots and not that much.  I could not get much speed or heat to get a good bead
 
 clay
 
 On Jun 5, 2015, at 1:12 PM, fmiser via Mercedes wrote:
 
 clay wrote:
 
 I could not get a decent bead using the PC carcasses and was
 getting a bunch of blow through.
 
 Thin sheet metal and gasless wirefeed is pretty tough.  Set
 the wire feed and amperage low.  And get some good wire.  The
 HF wire is junk.  
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts

2015-06-05 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
Grant,
I agree that theres a coating there, I'm not sure its always galvanizing 
though. I suspect its similar though and reacts similarly. I've gotten in the 
habit of cleaning 1/4 around the sheet metal I'm using when I weld. I like 
leaving most of the stuff on, it doesn't burn off too bad other than right 
where I'm welding and it doesn't seem to rust.
My next step is to buy a bigger grinder. I'm going to get a 5 with the thinner 
grip. I don't know what its called other than its not the paddle grip my 4 1/2 
Makita has, that one makes my hands tired quick.
-Curt
  From: G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Cc: G Mann g2ma...@gmail.com 
 Sent: Friday, June 5, 2015 6:42 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Slag hurts
   
PC boxes are most likely clad with galvanize material. Galvanizing requires
the base metal be coated with Zinc compounds which can and WILL contaminate
your weld, thus welds that look like bird droppings. The job of rod flux is
to carry away the contaminates in the weld puddle, but the flux core wire
from China doesn't have enough volume of flux to combat zinc contamination
of the weld puddle.. in fact.. if you were using gas, you would have to
crank up the flow rate to over come it.

The fact that you are having splatter and slag issues should have keyed me
to tell you the zinc boiling off is likely the cause. I overlooked that..
my apology.

Try a welding a piece of the same material you have dressed with a grinding
wheel to clean steel.. see if it doesn't give you a much better weld. I
will lay bets it does.

Go to your local steel supplier and pick up some end cut scraps for
practice, in MILD STEEL only.. then run a few passes.. look at the
difference.. you should see immediate good results.. even with crappy
Chinese flux wire from Harbor Fright.

A good part of welding is knowing the metalurgy of the metal you are
joining.. and how it affects the weld.

   
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