Re: [MBZ] That sinking (brake) feeling

2015-08-05 Thread Max Dillon via Mercedes
Mitch,

Your email arrived last night?

Did exactly that test, couple of times.  No spots, the reservoir level didn't 
change.

I've ordered a FTE master cylinder from Auto Haus AZ, $144 plus shipping, 
should have that by Thursday evening.

Interestingly I can find rebuild kits for FTE MCs, haven't looked too hard but 
one price was $75.  I may have to snag a good FTE MC core from the junkyard and 
store that away with a rebuild kit.  So tempting to hoard parts...
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On August 1, 2015 12:50:32 PM EDT, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
Park it over a dry spot and pump the brakes a bit. 
If there are no obvious leaks, MC seems likely. 
Leaks in lines, hoses or calipers should put fluid on the ground. 

Which reminds me, the e320 had that sinking feeling when I moved it
last night. 
Need go move it again and check for spots in the dirt. 

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] That sinking (brake) feeling

2015-08-05 Thread Randy Bennell via Mercedes

On 05/08/2015 8:14 AM, Max Dillon via Mercedes wrote:

Mitch,

Your email arrived last night?

Did exactly that test, couple of times.  No spots, the reservoir level didn't 
change.

I've ordered a FTE master cylinder from Auto Haus AZ, $144 plus shipping, 
should have that by Thursday evening.

Interestingly I can find rebuild kits for FTE MCs, haven't looked too hard but 
one price was $75.  I may have to snag a good FTE MC core from the junkyard and 
store that away with a rebuild kit.  So tempting to hoard parts...


I ordered a rebuild kit for the mc in my 1976 115 300D.
It took a while to show up but I got it. It is Raybestos brand and says 
that it was made in Australia.
I am struggling to get the kit installed however. It was a bit of a bear 
to get apart and is also challenging me in putting it back together. No 
problem taking the mc out of the car.
It is amazing how stretchy the rubber parts are. Even after the Lord 
only knows how long the existing parts had soaked in brake fluid, they 
were not easy to get off of the metal plunger. It took some prying to 
get them off. Then one has to stretch the new ones onto it. Not easy. I 
cut the nozzle off of a big caulking tube and used it to slide the 
rubber cup up on over the ridge on the metal plunger. I tried to just 
roll it on with my fingers but that is not easy when trying to do it to 
a small rubber doodad soaked in brake fluid while wearing rubber gloves. 
Using the nozzle from the caulking tube permitted me to stretch the 
rubber cup up to about the size of the metal plunger diameter so that I 
could slip it over the ridge into the groove. While doing so, I hoped I 
was not doing it any harm.  I guess, time will tell.


Now that I have that part together, my next challenge is to get that 
plunger with the rubber cups on it to slide into the bore on the mc 
casting. There is no way to do it with one's fingers as the smaller bore 
is at least 2 inches down inside the larger bore on the stepped housing. 
I think the answer is to find some tubing the right size and slip the 
plunger into it and reach the whole mess down inside and get it lined up 
with the bore and then push the plunger out of the tubing into the bore. 
I measured the plunger and it is .749 so pretty close to 3/4 and 3/4 
inside diameter pipe ought not to be too hard to find. I need to poke 
around in my junk and see what I can come up with, or head to a hardware 
store with my digital calipers to see what I can find.
The service manual on the CD indicates that MB likely provided a rebuild 
kit for these at one time that came essentially assembled with a new 
plunger inside a plastic tube. One shoved the tube into the mc housing 
and just pushed it in. At least that is what it looks like to me in the 
photos.
I am not so lucky. I just got a small bag of loose parts in a box. The 
price was right and the mc looks good so it seemed to me to be a good 
thing to try to keep the car pretty much original. However, I have paid 
more in insurance for the period it has been off the road while I waited 
for the parts and then while it waited for me to work on it, than it 
would have cost to have a rebuilt one almost immediately. Such is life, 
live and learn hopefully.


RB


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Re: [MBZ] That sinking (brake) feeling

2015-08-05 Thread Max Dillon via Mercedes
Thanks Randy.  How easy was it to inspect the bore?  Something that can be done 
in a junk yard?

Time/money trade off: don't forget the risk of an accident when the inferior 
cheapo master cylinder from FLAPS fails.  SWMBO has decided she won't drive THE 
1995 MERCEDES-BENZ E300 ANDREW until the new MC is installed.  I agree with 
that decision, offered to let her drive the White Whale if she needed.  New MC 
should arrive tomorrow.

The pictures of the FTE kit look like the new rubber seals are installed on a 
new plunger, but I didn't notice a plastic tube to guide them home.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On August 5, 2015 5:41:20 PM EDT, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
I ordered a rebuild kit for the mc in my 1976 115 300D.
It took a while to show up but I got it. It is Raybestos brand and says

that it was made in Australia.
I am struggling to get the kit installed however. It was a bit of a
bear 
to get apart and is also challenging me in putting it back together. No

problem taking the mc out of the car.
It is amazing how stretchy the rubber parts are. Even after the Lord 
only knows how long the existing parts had soaked in brake fluid, they 
were not easy to get off of the metal plunger. It took some prying to 
get them off. Then one has to stretch the new ones onto it. Not easy. I

cut the nozzle off of a big caulking tube and used it to slide the 
rubber cup up on over the ridge on the metal plunger. I tried to just 
roll it on with my fingers but that is not easy when trying to do it to

a small rubber doodad soaked in brake fluid while wearing rubber
gloves. 
Using the nozzle from the caulking tube permitted me to stretch the 
rubber cup up to about the size of the metal plunger diameter so that I

could slip it over the ridge into the groove. While doing so, I hoped I

was not doing it any harm.  I guess, time will tell.

Now that I have that part together, my next challenge is to get that 
plunger with the rubber cups on it to slide into the bore on the mc 
casting. There is no way to do it with one's fingers as the smaller
bore 
is at least 2 inches down inside the larger bore on the stepped
housing. 
I think the answer is to find some tubing the right size and slip the 
plunger into it and reach the whole mess down inside and get it lined
up 
with the bore and then push the plunger out of the tubing into the
bore. 
I measured the plunger and it is .749 so pretty close to 3/4 and 3/4

inside diameter pipe ought not to be too hard to find. I need to poke 
around in my junk and see what I can come up with, or head to a
hardware 
store with my digital calipers to see what I can find.
The service manual on the CD indicates that MB likely provided a
rebuild 
kit for these at one time that came essentially assembled with a new 
plunger inside a plastic tube. One shoved the tube into the mc housing 
and just pushed it in. At least that is what it looks like to me in the

photos.
I am not so lucky. I just got a small bag of loose parts in a box. The 
price was right and the mc looks good so it seemed to me to be a good 
thing to try to keep the car pretty much original. However, I have paid

more in insurance for the period it has been off the road while I
waited 
for the parts and then while it waited for me to work on it, than it 
would have cost to have a rebuilt one almost immediately. Such is life,

live and learn hopefully.




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Re: [MBZ] That sinking (brake) feeling

2015-08-05 Thread Randy Bennell via Mercedes

We just looked down the bore with a light and it looked fine to me.

RB

On 05/08/2015 5:18 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes wrote:

Thanks Randy.  How easy was it to inspect the bore?  Something that can be done 
in a junk yard?

Time/money trade off: don't forget the risk of an accident when the inferior 
cheapo master cylinder from FLAPS fails.  SWMBO has decided she won't drive THE 
1995 MERCEDES-BENZ E300 ANDREW until the new MC is installed.  I agree with 
that decision, offered to let her drive the White Whale if she needed.  New MC 
should arrive tomorrow.

The pictures of the FTE kit look like the new rubber seals are installed on a 
new plunger, but I didn't notice a plastic tube to guide them home.



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Re: [MBZ] That sinking (brake) feeling

2015-08-04 Thread Mitch Haley via Mercedes
Park it over a dry spot and pump the brakes a bit. 
If there are no obvious leaks, MC seems likely. 
Leaks in lines, hoses or calipers should put fluid on the ground. 

Which reminds me, the e320 had that sinking feeling when I moved it last night. 
Need go move it again and check for spots in the dirt. 

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] That sinking (brake) feeling

2015-08-03 Thread Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
Very funny.  The car type should ALWAYS be in the subject line.

On Sun, Aug 2, 2015 at 5:25 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Which car?


 Crosley Sport Utility!

 Pay attention!


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Re: [MBZ] That sinking (brake) feeling

2015-08-02 Thread Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
Which car?

On Sat, Aug 1, 2015 at 6:51 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 I will see if I have one, although he does not have to pay me.

 Sent from my iPhone

  On Aug 1, 2015, at 1:16 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
  Kaleb - if you get a headlight switch for Craig from one of your 123 or
  114/115/116 junkers and send it to him, and I think he will send you $10
  plus shipping.
 
  -
  Max
  Charleston SC
 
  On Sat, Aug 1, 2015 at 1:33 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
  mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
  Geez Craig give me a brake.
 
  Sent from my iPhone
 
  On Aug 1, 2015, at 12:19 PM, Craig via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com
  wrote:
 
  On Sat, 1 Aug 2015 10:58:32 -0600 Craig via Mercedes
  mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
  The master cylinder is the usual cause of sinking break pedal. If you
  can pump the breaks up, that also points to the master cylinder.
 
  A fellow student recently had a sinking break pedal,
 
  Make that brake and not break!
 
 
  Craig
 
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Re: [MBZ] That sinking (brake) feeling

2015-08-02 Thread Curly McLain via Mercedes

Which car?


Crosley Sport Utility!

Pay attention!

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Re: [MBZ] That sinking (brake) feeling

2015-08-01 Thread Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes
Geez Craig give me a brake.

Sent from my iPhone

 On Aug 1, 2015, at 12:19 PM, Craig via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 On Sat, 1 Aug 2015 10:58:32 -0600 Craig via Mercedes
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 The master cylinder is the usual cause of sinking break pedal. If you
 can pump the breaks up, that also points to the master cylinder.
 
 A fellow student recently had a sinking break pedal,
 
 Make that brake and not break!
 
 
 Craig
 
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Re: [MBZ] That sinking (brake) feeling

2015-08-01 Thread Meade Dillon via Mercedes
Kaleb - if you get a headlight switch for Craig from one of your 123 or
114/115/116 junkers and send it to him, and I think he will send you $10
plus shipping.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Sat, Aug 1, 2015 at 1:33 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Geez Craig give me a brake.

 Sent from my iPhone

  On Aug 1, 2015, at 12:19 PM, Craig via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 wrote:
 
  On Sat, 1 Aug 2015 10:58:32 -0600 Craig via Mercedes
  mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
  The master cylinder is the usual cause of sinking break pedal. If you
  can pump the breaks up, that also points to the master cylinder.
 
  A fellow student recently had a sinking break pedal,
 
  Make that brake and not break!
 
 
  Craig
 
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Re: [MBZ] That sinking (brake) feeling

2015-08-01 Thread Craig via Mercedes
On Sat, 01 Aug 2015 09:31:53 -0400 Max Dillon via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 SWMBO says that she had to pump the brakes to stop the car on one
 occasion yesterday.  I'm planning to check the fluid level and look for
 leaks, but I'm suspicious of the master cylinder.

The master cylinder is the usual cause of sinking break pedal. If you can
pump the breaks up, that also points to the master cylinder.

A fellow student recently had a sinking break pedal, but his was due to a
pinhole leak in one of the flexible brake lines. That situation will
prevent pumping up much because there's no more brake fluid left.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] That sinking (brake) feeling

2015-08-01 Thread Craig via Mercedes
On Sat, 1 Aug 2015 10:58:32 -0600 Craig via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 The master cylinder is the usual cause of sinking break pedal. If you
 can pump the breaks up, that also points to the master cylinder.
 
 A fellow student recently had a sinking break pedal, 

Make that brake and not break!


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] That sinking (brake) feeling

2015-08-01 Thread Meade Dillon via Mercedes
I should add that the brake system failed the press and hold test each
time.

-
Max
Charleston SC
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Re: [MBZ] That sinking (brake) feeling

2015-08-01 Thread Meade Dillon via Mercedes
I did the press and hold brake pedal test several times, engine running,
and then moved the car and looked for brake fluid (found none) and also
watched the reservoir level (it didn't seem to drop).

Current master cylinder is a replacement (aftermarket, no identifying marks
that I can find) which I installed about 4 years / 80k miles ago.

Searched around a bit today, settled on an FTE MC from Autohaus AZ, $144.
Northlake dealership wants about $180 for a new part.

I was considering rebuilding the MC because it is relatively young and the
cylinder may be fine, but can't find a source on-line for the parts.  FTE
may offer a kit, but when I checked to find no identifying marks on mine
and read a few forum posts on rebuilding brake MC, I've decided to get the
FTE MC which may be rebuildable in the future, but probably will last the
life of the car and not need rebuilding.
-
Max
Charleston SC

On Sat, Aug 1, 2015 at 1:19 PM, Craig via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
wrote:

 On Sat, 1 Aug 2015 10:58:32 -0600 Craig via Mercedes
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

  The master cylinder is the usual cause of sinking break pedal. If you
  can pump the breaks up, that also points to the master cylinder.
 
  A fellow student recently had a sinking break pedal,

 Make that brake and not break!


 Craig

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Re: [MBZ] That sinking (brake) feeling

2015-08-01 Thread Craig via Mercedes
On Sat, 1 Aug 2015 14:16:12 -0400 Meade Dillon via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Kaleb - if you get a headlight switch for Craig from one of your 123 or
 114/115/116 junkers and send it to him, and I think he will send you $10
 plus shipping.

Yes, Kaleb, do you have a W123 headlight switch?


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] That sinking (brake) feeling

2015-08-01 Thread fmiser via Mercedes
 Max wrote:
 
 SWMBO says that she had to pump the brakes to stop the car
 on one occasion yesterday.  I'm planning to check the fluid
 level and look for leaks, but I'm suspicious of the master
 cylinder.

It depends.  All you have said is had to pump the brakes to
stop the car - which not specific enough.  The subject line
says sinking - and if that's the case, it's probably the
master cylinder.

If the pedal sinks when applying light pressure, there is
either a hole or fluid is leaking past the master cylinder
piston seals.  If the fluid level isn't low, then it must be
the master cylinder.  Often - but not always - a fast, hard
press on the brake pedal will still seal and the brakes will
work fine.

If the pedal is firm under light or heavy pressure, but has
to be pumped a couple times before the brake pressure builds,
it could be a wheel cylinder that is being retracted too
far.  Failing wheel bearings can cause excess wheel wobble
that causes the brake pistons to be pushed back too much.  A
loose caliper can also cause similar symptoms.


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Re: [MBZ] That sinking (brake) feeling

2015-08-01 Thread fmiser via Mercedes
 Meade wrote:
 
 I was considering rebuilding the MC because it is
 relatively young and the cylinder may be fine, but can't
 find a source on-line for the parts.

I have 123s - and I failed to find any rebuild parts for the
brake or clutch master cylinders.

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Re: [MBZ] That sinking (brake) feeling

2015-08-01 Thread Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes
I will see if I have one, although he does not have to pay me.

Sent from my iPhone

 On Aug 1, 2015, at 1:16 PM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 wrote:
 
 Kaleb - if you get a headlight switch for Craig from one of your 123 or
 114/115/116 junkers and send it to him, and I think he will send you $10
 plus shipping.
 
 -
 Max
 Charleston SC
 
 On Sat, Aug 1, 2015 at 1:33 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 Geez Craig give me a brake.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Aug 1, 2015, at 12:19 PM, Craig via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 wrote:
 
 On Sat, 1 Aug 2015 10:58:32 -0600 Craig via Mercedes
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 The master cylinder is the usual cause of sinking break pedal. If you
 can pump the breaks up, that also points to the master cylinder.
 
 A fellow student recently had a sinking break pedal,
 
 Make that brake and not break!
 
 
 Craig
 
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