Re: [MBZ] Today's S420 Fun

2015-09-09 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
*valve* settings.

Dang autocorrect.



Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 9, 2015, at 10:04 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Something like that.
> 
> Seems that I'll have to tinker with the cable settings to get it working 
> again. No "default" settings, unfortunately, just trial and error.
> 
> Dan
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Sep 8, 2015, at 10:40 PM, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On September 8, 2015 at 3:40 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I have done further study, and it appears that there is valving that 
>>> controls
>>> this feature.  I’m going to tinker with it to see if I can get the feature 
>>> to
>>> return.
>> 
>> The way I've seen it, there's a high speed low force subsystem that pops its
>> relief valve when real resistance is encountered, then the low speed high 
>> force
>> section takes over. 
>> 
>> Mitch.
>> 
>> ___
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Re: [MBZ] Today's S420 Fun

2015-09-08 Thread M. Mitchell Marmel via Mercedes
Drove the E420 back from Memphis y'day.  The platinum plugs appreciated the
nice five hour interstate runs to-from Memphis, as the usual 15 mile daily
commute was getting them gunked up and grumpy...

-MMM-

On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 5:02 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>
> > I would start earlier if it wasn't for everyone else being asleep and it
> waking them up.
> > Got the floor jack rebuilt. Replaced the seal on the ram from my HF $8
> box of O rings. Nice.
> > The rapid rise feature still doesn't work. Not sure why, but there's a
> tool forum that has a section on floor jacks with a guy who is really well
> versed on them, so I'm going to ask him and see if he knows.
> > Otherwise, it seems to work well and doesn't leak. Yea!
> > Dan
> ...
> Mine didn't work either until I greased the external parts of the quick
> rise mechanism. Seemed to be a lot of friction from poorly machined parts.
> It has worked well ever since.
> Gerry
>
> ___
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Re: [MBZ] Today's S420 Fun

2015-09-08 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
I'm not sure I understand. There's nothing external to my pump that would be 
involved with a quick rise function. It's got something to do with the valving.

Dan

> On Sep 7, 2015, at 6:02 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> I would start earlier if it wasn't for everyone else being asleep and it 
>> waking them up.
>> Got the floor jack rebuilt. Replaced the seal on the ram from my HF $8 box 
>> of O rings. Nice.
>> The rapid rise feature still doesn't work. Not sure why, but there's a tool 
>> forum that has a section on floor jacks with a guy who is really well versed 
>> on them, so I'm going to ask him and see if he knows.
>> Otherwise, it seems to work well and doesn't leak. Yea!
>> Dan
> ...
> Mine didn't work either until I greased the external parts of the quick rise 
> mechanism. Seemed to be a lot of friction from poorly machined parts.
> It has worked well ever since.
> Gerry
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Today's S420 Fun

2015-09-08 Thread Curly McLain via Mercedes
I would start earlier if it wasn't for everyone else being asleep 
and it waking them up.


Got the floor jack rebuilt. Replaced the seal on the ram from my HF 
$8 box of O rings. Nice.


The rapid rise feature still doesn't work. Not sure why, but there's 
a tool forum that has a section on floor jacks with a guy who is 
really well versed on them, so I'm going to ask him and see if he 
knows.


Otherwise, it seems to work well and doesn't leak. Yea!

Dan


waytago

I assume the rapid jack is similar to a two stage hyd pump often used 
in things like a log splitter.  in that, there are actually 2 pumps. 
one high volume low pressure, and one lower volume, higher pressure. 
At the set pressure, the pump shifts from one pump to the other.  On 
those pumps, I think it is done with a valve or valves that shift the 
fluid flow from one side to the other.


Probably aa rusty stuck valve or shot orings that allow the oil by so 
it does not shift.


I'd guess all it needs is cleaning and new orings.  (outta the same $8 HF set)

I "fixed" those by buying a new pump from Northern Tool when the 
internal leakage got too high.


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Re: [MBZ] Today's S420 Fun

2015-09-08 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
I have done further study, and it appears that there is valving that controls 
this feature.  I’m going to tinker with it to see if I can get the feature to 
return.

Dan


> On Sep 8, 2015, at 3:26 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> I think that when the external force required to move the lift pad is too
> high, it goes slow. So, if you lube the whole thing, you can eliminate that
> as the cause, or you've just fixed it with a few blasts of your favorite
> aerosol lubricant. If this fixes it, then use a good grease for longer
> lasting lubrication.
> 
> On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 5:54 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> I'm not sure I understand. There's nothing external to my pump that would
>> be involved with a quick rise function. It's got something to do with the
>> valving.
>> 
>> Dan
>> 
>>> On Sep 7, 2015, at 6:02 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> ...
>>> Mine didn't work either until I greased the external parts of the quick
>> rise mechanism. Seemed to be a lot of friction from poorly machined parts.
>>> It has worked well ever since.
>>> Gerry
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> OK Don
> 
> NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!
> 
> *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
> our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
> 
> "There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
> learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
> for themselves."
> 
> WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
> ___
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> 


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Re: [MBZ] Today's S420 Fun

2015-09-08 Thread archer75--- via Mercedes

Then your pump must be a different design. Mine has two external pistons and a 
slotted lever with a sliding pin. It also has a foot pedal that operates the 
quick-lift in addition to the handle. If the pin doesn't slide, then the 
smaller slow rise piston doesn't go down and all that works is the bigger 
quick-rise. The jack is several years old, so it may be an early design. It 
came from Autozone.
Gerry

Dan Penoff wrote:
> I'm not sure I understand. There's nothing external to my pump that would be 
> involved with a quick rise function. It's got something to do with the 
> valving. 
> Dan
> 
> > On Sep 7, 2015, at 6:02 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >> I would start earlier if it wasn't for everyone else being asleep and it 
> >> waking them up.
> >> Got the floor jack rebuilt. Replaced the seal on the ram from my HF $8 box 
> >> of O rings. Nice.
> >> The rapid rise feature still doesn't work. Not sure why, but there's a 
> >> tool forum that has a section on floor jacks with a guy who is really well 
> >> versed on them, so I'm going to ask him and see if he knows.
> >> Otherwise, it seems to work well and doesn't leak. Yea!
> >> Dan
> > ...
> > Mine didn't work either until I greased the external parts of the quick 
> > rise mechanism. Seemed to be a lot of friction from poorly machined parts.
> > It has worked well ever since.
> > Gerry
> > 
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > 
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > 
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > 
> 
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> 
> 
> -
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> 


-- 
arche...@embarqmail.com 

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Re: [MBZ] Today's S420 Fun

2015-09-08 Thread OK Don via Mercedes
I think that when the external force required to move the lift pad is too
high, it goes slow. So, if you lube the whole thing, you can eliminate that
as the cause, or you've just fixed it with a few blasts of your favorite
aerosol lubricant. If this fixes it, then use a good grease for longer
lasting lubrication.

On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 5:54 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I'm not sure I understand. There's nothing external to my pump that would
> be involved with a quick rise function. It's got something to do with the
> valving.
>
> Dan
>
> > On Sep 7, 2015, at 6:02 PM, archer75--- via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
> > ...
> > Mine didn't work either until I greased the external parts of the quick
> rise mechanism. Seemed to be a lot of friction from poorly machined parts.
> > It has worked well ever since.
> > Gerry
> >
>



-- 
OK Don

NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

"There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves."

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Today's S420 Fun

2015-09-08 Thread Mitch Haley via Mercedes


> On September 8, 2015 at 3:40 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I have done further study, and it appears that there is valving that controls
> this feature.  I’m going to tinker with it to see if I can get the feature to
> return.

The way I've seen it, there's a high speed low force subsystem that pops its
relief valve when real resistance is encountered, then the low speed high force
section takes over. 

Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Today's S420 Fun

2015-09-07 Thread Dwight Giles via Mercedes
Boy this even beats  a Cathey morning. I am still fixin to go out & detail
the black trim on my CD.
On Sep 7, 2015 11:24 AM, "Dan Penoff via Mercedes" 
wrote:

> In an effort to address the remaining items on my list for the 94 S420, I
> started in this morning around 8:30.
>
> First thing was to add a couple of resistors to the coolant temperature
> sensor for the auxiliary fans.  On the 95 and earlier W140 cars, there is a
> sensor on the top front of the M119 engine that provides the setpoint (100
> C) for the turning on of the auxiliary fans.  I added two 2.2k ohm
> resistors in parallel to get the desired 1.1k ohm resistance to lower the
> setpoint to around 92C.  Of course the little plastic connector body pretty
> much disintegrated when I attempted to disassemble it.  Something for the
> “list ‘o’ parts” to my dealer parts guy tomorrow.
>
> Next was the fuel filter.  I wasn’t looking forward to this, as I really
> hate working around gasoline, but….
>
> This car has the dual fuel pump setup with the filter that uses
> compression and banjo bolt fittings.  Fortunately, everything was neat and
> clean with no corrosion present.  One of the clamp screws for holding the
> filter and pumps in place was worn out, but with a good phillips bit and an
> offset screwdriver I was able to get enough torque on it to break it loose.
>
> Filter and fittings all came loose without much effort.  Go the caps form
> the new filter on the old one pretty quick, so the amount of gas that came
> out wasn’t bad, maybe half a cup or so. Got everything in place, tightened
> up and tested with no leaks.  Put the cover back on and done.
>
> I did find something on the old filter that shocked me a bit when I saw
> it.  I didn’t notice this until after I had removed it and it was draining
> in the pan:
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/x86sl4b6oab7l2g/S420%20Filter.JPG?dl=0 <
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/x86sl4b6oab7l2g/S420%20Filter.JPG?dl=0>
>
> And now that the garage is cleared out and car work is pretty much done
> for the weekend, I’m going to tear into my floor jack, I think.  That’s
> after I start the spouse’s birthday cake baking….
>
> Dan
> ___
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>
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>
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Re: [MBZ] Today's S420 Fun

2015-09-07 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
It should work on your car, I believe.  Here’s a good reference:

http://www.k6jrf.com/MB_CTS.html 

Dan


> On Sep 7, 2015, at 12:00 PM, Max Dillon via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Intriguing! I hadn't considered such a modification for my '87 wagon, I was 
> focusing on finding a temperature switch with lower set-points. I did find 
> one that is  lower, I think it drops the aux fan engagement temperature to 
> 110 Celsius, but if I can bring that even lower with your idea, I shall.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Max Dillon
> Charleston SC
> '87 300TD
> '95 E300
> 

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Re: [MBZ] Today's S420 Fun

2015-09-07 Thread Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes
All I got done was to put together a shelving unit in the shop then unloaded a 
load of parts that were in the truck I loaded Saturday.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 7, 2015, at 10:46 AM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Boy this even beats  a Cathey morning. I am still fixin to go out & detail
> the black trim on my CD.
> On Sep 7, 2015 11:24 AM, "Dan Penoff via Mercedes" 
> wrote:
> 
>> In an effort to address the remaining items on my list for the 94 S420, I
>> started in this morning around 8:30.
>> 
>> First thing was to add a couple of resistors to the coolant temperature
>> sensor for the auxiliary fans.  On the 95 and earlier W140 cars, there is a
>> sensor on the top front of the M119 engine that provides the setpoint (100
>> C) for the turning on of the auxiliary fans.  I added two 2.2k ohm
>> resistors in parallel to get the desired 1.1k ohm resistance to lower the
>> setpoint to around 92C.  Of course the little plastic connector body pretty
>> much disintegrated when I attempted to disassemble it.  Something for the
>> “list ‘o’ parts” to my dealer parts guy tomorrow.
>> 
>> Next was the fuel filter.  I wasn’t looking forward to this, as I really
>> hate working around gasoline, but….
>> 
>> This car has the dual fuel pump setup with the filter that uses
>> compression and banjo bolt fittings.  Fortunately, everything was neat and
>> clean with no corrosion present.  One of the clamp screws for holding the
>> filter and pumps in place was worn out, but with a good phillips bit and an
>> offset screwdriver I was able to get enough torque on it to break it loose.
>> 
>> Filter and fittings all came loose without much effort.  Go the caps form
>> the new filter on the old one pretty quick, so the amount of gas that came
>> out wasn’t bad, maybe half a cup or so. Got everything in place, tightened
>> up and tested with no leaks.  Put the cover back on and done.
>> 
>> I did find something on the old filter that shocked me a bit when I saw
>> it.  I didn’t notice this until after I had removed it and it was draining
>> in the pan:
>> 
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/x86sl4b6oab7l2g/S420%20Filter.JPG?dl=0 <
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/x86sl4b6oab7l2g/S420%20Filter.JPG?dl=0>
>> 
>> And now that the garage is cleared out and car work is pretty much done
>> for the weekend, I’m going to tear into my floor jack, I think.  That’s
>> after I start the spouse’s birthday cake baking….
>> 
>> Dan
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
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Re: [MBZ] Today's S420 Fun

2015-09-07 Thread Rich Thomas via Mercedes

You can reuse that

--R



On 9/7/15 11:23 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

I did find something on the old filter that shocked me a bit when I saw it.  I 
didn’t notice this until after I had removed it and it was draining in the pan:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/x86sl4b6oab7l2g/S420%20Filter.JPG?dl=0  




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Re: [MBZ] Today's S420 Fun

2015-09-07 Thread Max Dillon via Mercedes
Intriguing! I hadn't considered such a modification for my '87 wagon, I was 
focusing on finding a temperature switch with lower set-points. I did find one 
that is  lower, I think it drops the aux fan engagement temperature to 110 
Celsius, but if I can bring that even lower with your idea, I shall.


-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On September 7, 2015 11:23:48 AM EDT, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
 wrote:
>In an effort to address the remaining items on my list for the 94 S420,
>I started in this morning around 8:30.
>
>First thing was to add a couple of resistors to the coolant temperature
>sensor for the auxiliary fans.  On the 95 and earlier W140 cars, there
>is a sensor on the top front of the M119 engine that provides the
>setpoint (100 C) for the turning on of the auxiliary fans.  I added two
>2.2k ohm resistors in parallel to get the desired 1.1k ohm resistance
>to lower the setpoint to around 92C.  

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Re: [MBZ] Today's S420 Fun

2015-09-07 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
For what?

I will say that when I drained it I didn’t get any crud out of it.  I guess 
that’s good.

Dan

> On Sep 7, 2015, at 11:57 AM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> You can reuse that
> 
> --R
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Today's S420 Fun

2015-09-07 Thread Dwight Giles via Mercedes
Putting  Martha to shame
On Sep 7, 2015 1:42 PM, "Dan Penoff via Mercedes" 
wrote:

> Hey, I even slept in to 6:30 this morning.  Forgot to turn the alarm off
> for a weekday and it went off at the usual 5:10.
>
> Already rebuilt my floor jack, too - just getting ready to reassemble.
>
> Dan
>
> > On Sep 7, 2015, at 1:36 PM, WILTON via Mercedes 
> wrote:
> >
> > 'Got all that done and wrote about it before noon - WOW!  ATTABOY!
> 'Makin' the rest of us look or feel bad.   ;<)
> >
> > Wilton
> >
>
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Re: [MBZ] Today's S420 Fun

2015-09-07 Thread Max Dillon via Mercedes
I don't see how a similar modification can be done for my car.

Perhaps I could re-purpose the antenna switch to provide manual control of the 
aux fan...
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On September 7, 2015 12:00:13 PM EDT, Max Dillon  wrote:
>Intriguing! I hadn't considered such a modification for my '87 wagon, I
>was focusing on finding a temperature switch with lower set-points. I
>did find one that is  lower, I think it drops the aux fan engagement
>temperature to 110 Celsius, but if I can bring that even lower with
>your idea, I shall.
>
>
>-- 
>Max Dillon
>Charleston SC
>'87 300TD
>'95 E300
>
>On September 7, 2015 11:23:48 AM EDT, Dan Penoff via Mercedes
> wrote:
>>In an effort to address the remaining items on my list for the 94
>S420,
>>I started in this morning around 8:30.
>>
>>First thing was to add a couple of resistors to the coolant
>temperature
>>sensor for the auxiliary fans.  On the 95 and earlier W140 cars, there
>>is a sensor on the top front of the M119 engine that provides the
>>setpoint (100 C) for the turning on of the auxiliary fans.  I added
>two
>>2.2k ohm resistors in parallel to get the desired 1.1k ohm resistance
>>to lower the setpoint to around 92C.  
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Re: [MBZ] Today's S420 Fun

2015-09-07 Thread WILTON via Mercedes
'Got all that done and wrote about it before noon - WOW!  ATTABOY!  'Makin' 
the rest of us look or feel bad.   ;<)


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Dan Penoff via Mercedes" 

To: "Okie Benz" 
Cc: "Dan Penoff" 
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2015 11:23 AM
Subject: [MBZ] Today's S420 Fun


In an effort to address the remaining items on my list for the 94 S420, I 
started in this morning around 8:30.


First thing was to add a couple of resistors to the coolant temperature 
sensor for the auxiliary fans.  On the 95 and earlier W140 cars, there is 
a sensor on the top front of the M119 engine that provides the setpoint 
(100 C) for the turning on of the auxiliary fans.  I added two 2.2k ohm 
resistors in parallel to get the desired 1.1k ohm resistance to lower the 
setpoint to around 92C.  Of course the little plastic connector body 
pretty much disintegrated when I attempted to disassemble it.  Something 
for the “list ‘o’ parts” to my dealer parts guy tomorrow.


Next was the fuel filter.  I wasn’t looking forward to this, as I really 
hate working around gasoline, but….


This car has the dual fuel pump setup with the filter that uses 
compression and banjo bolt fittings.  Fortunately, everything was neat and 
clean with no corrosion present.  One of the clamp screws for holding the 
filter and pumps in place was worn out, but with a good phillips bit and 
an offset screwdriver I was able to get enough torque on it to break it 
loose.


Filter and fittings all came loose without much effort.  Go the caps form 
the new filter on the old one pretty quick, so the amount of gas that came 
out wasn’t bad, maybe half a cup or so. Got everything in place, tightened 
up and tested with no leaks.  Put the cover back on and done.


I did find something on the old filter that shocked me a bit when I saw 
it.  I didn’t notice this until after I had removed it and it was draining 
in the pan:


https://www.dropbox.com/s/x86sl4b6oab7l2g/S420%20Filter.JPG?dl=0 



And now that the garage is cleared out and car work is pretty much done 
for the weekend, I’m going to tear into my floor jack, I think.  That’s 
after I start the spouse’s birthday cake baking….


Dan
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Re: [MBZ] Today's S420 Fun

2015-09-07 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
Hey, I even slept in to 6:30 this morning.  Forgot to turn the alarm off for a 
weekday and it went off at the usual 5:10.

Already rebuilt my floor jack, too - just getting ready to reassemble.

Dan

> On Sep 7, 2015, at 1:36 PM, WILTON via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> 'Got all that done and wrote about it before noon - WOW!  ATTABOY!  'Makin' 
> the rest of us look or feel bad.   ;<)
> 
> Wilton
> 

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Re: [MBZ] Today's S420 Fun

2015-09-07 Thread WILTON via Mercedes

Lemme check that driving time to Tampa again.  ;<)

Just did - 10 hours.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: "Dan Penoff via Mercedes" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>

To: "Okie Benz" <mercedes@okiebenz.com>
Cc: "Dan Penoff" <d...@penoff.com>
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2015 1:42 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Today's S420 Fun


Hey, I even slept in to 6:30 this morning.  Forgot to turn the alarm off 
for a weekday and it went off at the usual 5:10.


Already rebuilt my floor jack, too - just getting ready to reassemble.

Dan

On Sep 7, 2015, at 1:36 PM, WILTON via Mercedes <mercedes@okiebenz.com> 
wrote:


'Got all that done and wrote about it before noon - WOW!  ATTABOY! 
'Makin' the rest of us look or feel bad.   ;<)


Wilton



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Re: [MBZ] Today's S420 Fun

2015-09-07 Thread archer75--- via Mercedes

> I would start earlier if it wasn't for everyone else being asleep and it 
> waking them up.
> Got the floor jack rebuilt. Replaced the seal on the ram from my HF $8 box of 
> O rings. Nice.
> The rapid rise feature still doesn't work. Not sure why, but there's a tool 
> forum that has a section on floor jacks with a guy who is really well versed 
> on them, so I'm going to ask him and see if he knows.
> Otherwise, it seems to work well and doesn't leak. Yea!
> Dan
...
Mine didn't work either until I greased the external parts of the quick rise 
mechanism. Seemed to be a lot of friction from poorly machined parts.
It has worked well ever since.
Gerry

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Re: [MBZ] Today's S420 Fun

2015-09-07 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
I would start earlier if it wasn't for everyone else being asleep and it waking 
them up.

Got the floor jack rebuilt. Replaced the seal on the ram from my HF $8 box of O 
rings. Nice.

The rapid rise feature still doesn't work. Not sure why, but there's a tool 
forum that has a section on floor jacks with a guy who is really well versed on 
them, so I'm going to ask him and see if he knows.

Otherwise, it seems to work well and doesn't leak. Yea!

Dan

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 7, 2015, at 1:46 PM, WILTON via Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> Lemme check that driving time to Tampa again.  ;<)
> 
> Just did - 10 hours.
> 
> Wilton
> 

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