Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-13 Thread Max Dillon via Mercedes
Craig, There were two auxiliary propulsion units (APUs) mounted about 1/3 of the ship's length from the bow. They were electric and could be retracted when not in use, and rotated 360 degrees. A skilled ship driver could use those and the main engine to maneuver pier-side or get underway

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-12 Thread Mountain Man via Mercedes
Jim wrote: > 90% of such a proposal would be a materials problem. GE made the news this year - 3D printed turbine engine. What's that all about? mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-12 Thread G Mann via Mercedes
Some years ago, I was involved in the design and build of a Allison 250 turbine engine sprint car [dirt track]. The engine used for that car came from the residual engines from the Indy car. It came as a pallet of parts and tech manuals. The car was configured as a 4 wheel drive sprint car,

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-12 Thread Craig via Mercedes
On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 11:52:18 -0500 Mountain Man via Mercedes wrote: > Jim wrote: > > 90% of such a proposal would be a materials problem. > > GE made the news this year - 3D printed turbine engine. > What's that all about? > mao

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-12 Thread Rich Thomas via Mercedes
cool. I didn't read the earlier posts but figured someone must have remembered that. Us Hoosiers I guess... I have this idea that there should be an "unlimited" race series, let the drivers assess the risk and have at it. It would generate all kinds of interesting engineering and vehicles

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-12 Thread WILTON via Mercedes
I've always (well, since about 1946, anyway) thought it should be unlimited. Wilton - Original Message - From: "Rich Thomas via Mercedes" To: Cc: "Rich Thomas" Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2015

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-12 Thread Craig via Mercedes
On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 11:52:18 -0500 Mountain Man via Mercedes wrote: > Jim wrote: > > 90% of such a proposal would be a materials problem. > > GE made the news this year - 3D printed turbine engine. > What's that all about? > mao

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-12 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
HA. The CVTs used in cars today in most cases is LITERALLY a snowmobile belt drive system. Good for up to maybe 200hp but shrapnel beyond that. I wonder if you could make a hydraulic drive system that would survive it? Otherwise its a good place for a series hybrid... -Curt From: Curly

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-12 Thread Craig via Mercedes
On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 21:02:28 -0500 OK Don via Mercedes wrote: > Hmmm - perhaps one of these would work for a series hybrid system? > > http://www.jakadofsky.com/index1.php?bereichID=11=en > 24/28 Volt, 300 Amps continuous 8.4 kW > Consumption: 10 litres (2,5

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-12 Thread Craig via Mercedes
On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 21:02:28 -0500 OK Don via Mercedes wrote: > Hmmm - perhaps one of these would work for a series hybrid system? > > http://www.jakadofsky.com/index1.php?bereichID=11=en > > Here's another one - just add the generator: > >

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-12 Thread Craig via Mercedes
On Sat, 12 Sep 2015 22:04:24 -0400 Max Dillon via Mercedes wrote: > The gas turbines on my old ship drove the main reduction gear by > pushing the hot exhaust gas over a turbine, which was mechanically > connected to drive an input shaft. This was called a fluid coupling.

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-12 Thread Max Dillon via Mercedes
The gas turbines on my old ship drove the main reduction gear by pushing the hot exhaust gas over a turbine, which was mechanically connected to drive an input shaft. This was called a fluid coupling. The red. gear brought the speed down from some high RPM to about 100 RPM, and then the

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-12 Thread Curly McLain via Mercedes
Seems like a good application for a CVT. GMANN: Some years ago, I was involved in the design and build of a Allison 250 turbine engine sprint car [dirt track]. The engine used for that car came from the residual engines from the Indy car. It came as a pallet of parts and tech manuals. The car

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-12 Thread OK Don via Mercedes
Hmmm - perhaps one of these would work for a series hybrid system? http://www.jakadofsky.com/index1.php?bereichID=11=en Here's another one - just add the generator: http://www.jetcatusa.com/spt5.html -- OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-12 Thread G Mann via Mercedes
Problem set you need to consider: 1. Turbine engines do not "idle".. what you would equate to "idle" would be 70% RPM. Below that, the burner flame front and balance of air flow through the engine becomes unstable. Operational power for small turbines comes on in the 100,000 RPM range which

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-12 Thread Jim Cathey via Mercedes
90% of such a proposal would be a materials problem. Advantages are that we're only talking about maybe 20HP, so the diameter of the thing would be small, making the physical (but not thermal) stresses more modest. There would be LOTS of details to work out; the development bill would be large.

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-12 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
I mentioned this early in the thread. I saw the car run twice (actually more than that if you include time trials and carburetion day) and it was amazing. Yes, it dropped out with eight laps to go, not due to an engine issue but a bearing failure in the transmission. The following year it was

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-12 Thread Rich Thomas via Mercedes
Hey, y'all remember Parnelli Jones's turbine car at the Indy 500, right? Mid-late 60s? I think he ran it 2 years and it was cleaning up the first time until a transmission bearing broke. I forget what happened the next year, maybe a crash? Then the race organizers banned turbines. I don't

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-12 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
Yeah Columbus, threres nothing to the west but more ocean. Everybody knows that... Curt Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android From:"G Mann via Mercedes" Date:Sat, Sep 12, 2015 at 2:07 AM Subject:Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-11 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
As someone who was involved in research involving micro turbines for distributed power, I can fully agree with what Grant is saying. Back in my Kohler days we looked closely at small gas turbines for power generation, and so many of the requirements were beyond the scope of realistic

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-11 Thread G Mann via Mercedes
Turbine engine may make sense on paper, but in reality, there is no cheap turbine engine. Having several decades of experience in the manufacture, sale, and use of turbine engines, including APU [aux power unit] systems, my experience tells me the application is not practical for automotive use..

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-11 Thread G Mann via Mercedes
So sorry to bring rain to the parade.. Reality is like that. The internal combustion engine is noisy, stinks, pollutes, and it's inefficient. However, to date, there is no practical replacement for use in motorcars. The theory can be raised that mankind is inherently lazy. Horses, for example,

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-11 Thread Craig via Mercedes
On Fri, 11 Sep 2015 09:56:52 -0700 G Mann via Mercedes wrote: > So sorry to bring rain to the parade.. > > Reality is like that. The internal combustion engine is noisy, stinks, > pollutes, and it's inefficient. However, to date, there is no practical > replacement for

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-11 Thread Curly McLain via Mercedes
On Fri, 11 Sep 2015 09:56:52 -0700 G Mann via Mercedes wrote: So sorry to bring rain to the parade.. Reality is like that. The internal combustion engine is noisy, stinks, pollutes, and it's inefficient. However, to date, there is no practical replacement for use

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-11 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
I've read about people making power with a Lister clone and using the waste heat in the house. Apparently its possible to find significant savings there. Lister engines are super cool too... -Curt From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes To: Okie Benz

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-11 Thread Curly McLain via Mercedes
This reminds me that Kohler was doing something not long after I had left with "capstone" turbines. Not sure of the significance, but I do recall the term being used. I know they would have been relatively small units, if I recall in the 10kW-15kW range. They were talking at one time about

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-11 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
This reminds me that Kohler was doing something not long after I had left with “capstone” turbines. Not sure of the significance, but I do recall the term being used. I know they would have been relatively small units, if I recall in the 10kW-15kW range. They were talking at one time about

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-11 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
> On Sep 11, 2015, at 4:44 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes > wrote: > > I've read about people making power with a Lister clone and using the waste > heat in the house. Apparently its possible to find significant savings there. > Lister engines are super cool too... >

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-11 Thread fmiser via Mercedes
> G wrote: > > Turbine engine may make sense on paper, but in reality, > there is no cheap turbine engine. Yet. I can dream. If Andrew can dream of a only-solar powered, I can dream of a practical, small turbine. > my experience tells me the application is not practical for > automotive use..

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-11 Thread archer75--- via Mercedes
Chryslers Turbine Cars of the '70s ".There were numerous functional challenges and limitations with the Turbine Cars, of which sluggish throttle response was the biggest. This is an inherent design limitation of turbines, as they need to spin up to over 40,000 rpm to develop full power.

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-11 Thread Mountain Man via Mercedes
Grant wrote: > Materials needed to withstand both temperature and speed of rotational > components are expensive. Address the story heard recently that GE has created a 3D printed turbine. Thanks. mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-11 Thread Randy Bennell via Mercedes
On 11/09/2015 3:44 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote: I've read about people making power with a Lister clone and using the waste heat in the house. Apparently its possible to find significant savings there. Lister engines are super cool too... -Curt A lot of effort and trouble. I

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-11 Thread Randy Bennell via Mercedes
On 11/09/2015 3:55 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote: On Sep 11, 2015, at 4:44 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote: I've read about people making power with a Lister clone and using the waste heat in the house. Apparently its possible to find significant savings there.

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-11 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
Dodge (well Chrysler I presume) made some kind of a turbine engine car way back in the '60s. Apparently it was actually quite nice to drive. I forget where I read the article about it, probably a magazine, it was awhile ago. All the issues related to startup and shutdown can be easily computer

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-11 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
I suspect he’s talking about the legacy Listers, not modern day ones. The “originals” Listers were practically machined out of a solid block of steel. You couldn’t kill them. 20,000 hours was not unheard of without any service other than basic maintenance. I used to work for a guy years ago

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-11 Thread Mountain Man via Mercedes
Grant wrote: > Go Green, Be Clean as long as it's easy.. Too true!! mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-11 Thread archer75--- via Mercedes
On Fri, 11 Sep 2015 19:38:48 -0700 Jim Cathey via Mercedes wrote: > > What kind of turbine would one use? > > One that doesn't exist yet! > > > Any idea where to buy one? > > In the future, I hope. > > > Turbine engine may make sense on paper, but in reality, there is

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-11 Thread G Mann via Mercedes
Just so happens that I had opportunity to inspect then drive, for a short test drive, one of the Dodge Bros/ Chrysler turbine powered car, back when it came out. Local dealer had one in for a show and tell demonstration, with all the "This is the Wave of the Future" hoopla.. It was incredibly

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-11 Thread Jim Cathey via Mercedes
What kind of turbine would one use? One that doesn't exist yet! Any idea where to buy one? In the future, I hope. Turbine engine may make sense on paper, but in reality, there is no cheap turbine engine. They're not cheap, so we don't sell a lot of them. We don't sell a lot of them,

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-11 Thread WILTON via Mercedes
'63 Chrysler. Wilton - Original Message - From: "archer75--- via Mercedes" To: "Mercedes Discussion List" Cc: Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 6:23 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The

Re: [MBZ] Turbines for power and heat [was Re: The demise pf Pruis h*ters]

2015-09-11 Thread Meade Dillon via Mercedes
I used to be assigned to USS LEWIS B. PULLER (FFG 23) which used two gas turbine engines for main propulsion. LM-2500 engines I think, same basic design as used in a DC-9 from foggy memory. 20,000 shaft horse power from each engine. Under normal operations, the Engineering Section began for