Re: [MBZ] Was 722.6 ATF Temperature chart - now Teaching

2019-08-14 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
Absolutely.

If there was someone in the class that had experience that was relevant to the 
material, I did everything I could to engage them and get them to share as long 
as time permitted. I always told my students that it would be a learning 
experience for me as well, and it always was. I also emphasized that while I 
was the “factory guy” I wasn’t the absolute subject matter expert, nor did I 
claim to be.

-D


> On Aug 13, 2019, at 10:42 PM, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Yeah, I did that once or twice.   Same silence, but the guy was compliant 
> after that.
> 
> I think every class I taught about M$ network engineering had 1 or more in it 
> that knew things I didn't, and many knew command line or shortcuts I didn't.  
>  I always tried to firgure out who they were and and get them to contribute 
> to the class and we had a lot of discussions about the fast way, the right 
> way, the wrong way and the M$ way.   The other thing we did was put people in 
> teams, at which time we had no idea who had no experience and who could 
> probably teach the class.   But usually the knowledgeable people became 
> engaged in teaching their partner, and often others.  I encouraged this at 
> the first class and at random times through the class.   I tried to position 
> myself as the guide on the side, and not the know it all leader.
> 
> One thing about IT:There is nobody who knows everything.  I learned stuff 
> in every class I taught.   The most frustrating thing was when I ran through 
> the lab the night before,and everything worked perfectly; then M$ dropped a 
> patch overnight that broke the lab.   So in the class, the lab would not 
> work.  But I turned it into a troubleshooting experience and challenged the 
> class to figure out why it broke and what the fix or workaround was.   Those 
> guys in the class that could probably teach it saved me every time.  Once in 
> a while I had time to sit down and try to find the fix and actually found it 
> before the class did.
> 
> Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote on 8/13/19 6:52 PM:
>> I finally got so irritated that I stopped the class after one of his 
>> questions where he challenged my knowledge. I walked over, reached out with 
>> the pointer/clicker I was using, and said, “Tommy, it’s clear that you must 
>> know far more than I do about our products, so why don’t you conduct the 
>> class for the rest of the day?”
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Was 722.6 ATF Temperature chart - now Teaching

2019-08-13 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
 I sat in a class one time with a guy who looked just like Dustin Hoffman, 
could be his brother. Rick is probably in his late 50s and is a Linux wizard. 
He was totally content to let somebody else drive the keyboard while he fed you 
commands. His knowledge of vi is encyclopedic. The only downside was that after 
awhile you quit learning anything because Rick would just feed you commands, 
after awhile we had to tell him to shut up so we could muddle through and 
figure stuff out on our own...
-Curt

On Tuesday, August 13, 2019, 10:43:18 PM EDT, Curley McLain via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Yeah, I did that once or twice.   Same silence, but the guy was 
compliant after that.

I think every class I taught about M$ network engineering had 1 or more 
in it that knew things I didn't, and many knew command line or shortcuts 
I didn't.   I always tried to firgure out who they were and and get them 
to contribute to the class and we had a lot of discussions about the 
fast way, the right way, the wrong way and the M$ way.   The other thing 
we did was put people in teams, at which time we had no idea who had no 
experience and who could probably teach the class.   But usually the 
knowledgeable people became engaged in teaching their partner, and often 
others.  I encouraged this at the first class and at random times 
through the class.   I tried to position myself as the guide on the 
side, and not the know it all leader.

One thing about IT:    There is nobody who knows everything.  I learned 
stuff in every class I taught.   The most frustrating thing was when I 
ran through the lab the night before,and everything worked perfectly; 
then M$ dropped a patch overnight that broke the lab.   So in the class, 
the lab would not work.  But I turned it into a troubleshooting 
experience and challenged the class to figure out why it broke and what 
the fix or workaround was.   Those guys in the class that could probably 
teach it saved me every time.  Once in a while I had time to sit down 
and try to find the fix and actually found it before the class did.

Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote on 8/13/19 6:52 PM:
> I finally got so irritated that I stopped the class after one of his 
> questions where he challenged my knowledge. I walked over, reached out with 
> the pointer/clicker I was using, and said, “Tommy, it’s clear that you must 
> know far more than I do about our products, so why don’t you conduct the 
> class for the rest of the day?”


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To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

  
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Re: [MBZ] Was 722.6 ATF Temperature chart - now Teaching

2019-08-13 Thread Curley McLain via Mercedes
Yeah, I did that once or twice.   Same silence, but the guy was 
compliant after that.


I think every class I taught about M$ network engineering had 1 or more 
in it that knew things I didn't, and many knew command line or shortcuts 
I didn't.   I always tried to firgure out who they were and and get them 
to contribute to the class and we had a lot of discussions about the 
fast way, the right way, the wrong way and the M$ way.   The other thing 
we did was put people in teams, at which time we had no idea who had no 
experience and who could probably teach the class.   But usually the 
knowledgeable people became engaged in teaching their partner, and often 
others.  I encouraged this at the first class and at random times 
through the class.   I tried to position myself as the guide on the 
side, and not the know it all leader.


One thing about IT:    There is nobody who knows everything.  I learned 
stuff in every class I taught.   The most frustrating thing was when I 
ran through the lab the night before,and everything worked perfectly; 
then M$ dropped a patch overnight that broke the lab.   So in the class, 
the lab would not work.  But I turned it into a troubleshooting 
experience and challenged the class to figure out why it broke and what 
the fix or workaround was.   Those guys in the class that could probably 
teach it saved me every time.  Once in a while I had time to sit down 
and try to find the fix and actually found it before the class did.


Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote on 8/13/19 6:52 PM:

I finally got so irritated that I stopped the class after one of his questions 
where he challenged my knowledge. I walked over, reached out with the 
pointer/clicker I was using, and said, “Tommy, it’s clear that you must know 
far more than I do about our products, so why don’t you conduct the class for 
the rest of the day?”



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Re: [MBZ] Was 722.6 ATF Temperature chart - now Teaching

2019-08-13 Thread G Mann via Mercedes
"Since you already know almost everything, take a break, go to the parking
lot and practice falling down and bleeding, The rest of us will be out when
we are done here to check on your progress and give you any help you might
need developing those skills."

Delivered with a cynical smile and while engaging the rest of the class,
who were all tired of the guys acting out.

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 4:53 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> As a technical trainer for a corporate entity you get to experience some
> of the worst possible students:
>
> 1.) Someone who has been doing the job/work who thinks they know more than
> you and wants to point it out every chance they get; or,
>
> 2.) The employee who has been forced to attend, like it or not, and
> doesn’t want to be there.
>
> When I was doing training these didn’t happen too often, but they did
> happen.
>
> #1 was usually the one who sat in the front of the class and constantly
> interrupted you to bring attention to their “superior" knowledge. In
> fairness there were times when a student might know more than I did for
> whatever reason, and I looked to that as a learning experience for me. I
> dealt wth these guys in two ways:
>
> Acknowledge them in front of the class and let them know that if they had
> questions or wanted information they could speak with me during a break,
> and that their questions were good but weren’t relevant to the material at
> that time. The other students usually resented this student for being a
> d*ck in general, more often than not.
>
> Take them aside during a break and tell them to take notes of their
> questions and I would address the outside of class. If they were really
> obnoxious, I would tell them to knock off the interruptions.
>
> One time I was conducting a class at one of our largest customers, a big
> oil field supply company called Waukesha-Pearce. They had in-house training
> people who were very good and present for my class, more or less just
> keeping tabs on things. There was a guy who sat in the front and constantly
> interrupted me with obscure questions that weren’t entirely relevant.
> People were getting pissed at “Tommy”, as this was apparently a regular
> thing for him. I finally got so irritated that I stopped the class after
> one of his questions where he challenged my knowledge. I walked over,
> reached out with the pointer/clicker I was using, and said, “Tommy, it’s
> clear that you must know far more than I do about our products, so why
> don’t you conduct the class for the rest of the day?”
>
> Silence.
>
> I immediately freaked out, because the company’s training manager, a good
> old Texas guy named Arnold, was sitting in back looking right at me.
>
> “Let’s take a break.”
>
> I made a beeline for Arnold, immediately apologizing for my behavior.
> Arnold laughed his proverbial *ss off. He thought it was great that Tommy
> got his comeuppance. A number of the other students told me much the same
> later that week.
>
> Tommy was quiet for the rest of the week.
>
> As for the guys who don’t want to be there, you just have to ignore them
> as long as they don’t disturb things. There were times when I would talk to
> them on break and acknowledge their displeasure and offer to cover topics
> or provide information that they might be interested in if it wasn’t being
> offered in that class.
>
> I’ve always loved teaching, but I know that it can be a grind to sit
> through a week of highly technical material and keep it engaging,
> especially if you don’t want to be there or are already familiar with the
> material.
>
> -D
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 13, 2019, at 7:31 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > Only recently have my classes really started to include a majority of
> folks younger than me.Most recently the very best students are very young,
> early 20's.
> > The worst was when I first started and got mostly boomers in their early
> 60's. They already knew it all and didn't want "some kid" (I was 30)
> telling them anything. Many of them flunked and got to go through the class
> again...
> >
> > Curt
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> >
> >  On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 3:22 AM, G Mann via Mercedes<
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:   Well played !
> > However, I am just old school enough to truly favor public humiliation
> as a
> > teaching tool. The extremely short attention span of the present
> generation
> > is most remarkable. It seems primary education consists of the principle
> of
> > "If you throw enough mud against a wall, some of it will stick".
> which
> > has generated a term for my use "Teflon children" ie those for whom
> nothing
> > stuck.
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 12:12 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >> “You never said/covered that.”
> >>
> >> “Yes I did, on this date/time.” (holds up lesson plan/notes)
> >>
> >> (Portion of classmates concur)
> >>
> >> Virtual dunce 

Re: [MBZ] Was 722.6 ATF Temperature chart - now Teaching

2019-08-13 Thread Dwight Giles via Mercedes
Yes there are,redeeming dynamics if you let them happen. I see that even
with my good  obedient Catholic freshman.

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 8:52 PM Curt Raymond  wrote:

> What always amazes me is that these jokers had their employer paying
> thousands of dollars to see me talk but couldn't be bothered to pay
> attention. Actually the stranger ones are the self-employed that are paying
> for themselves but trying to run a business at the same time. I understand
> that your business has to run but I'm not going to let you take the test
> extra times because you weren't paying attention...
>
> Usually the good students "fix" the bad ones. I remember one young woman
> from LA telling off an older guy. That guy was particularly bad, he'd space
> out for an hour or so and then want me to go back and cover the last hour
> again. She wasn't really technical and was struggling to keep up. After a
> day of his shenanigans she'd had enough and had no problem telling him to
> pay attention each and every time she noticed him drifting off, it was
> hilarious.
>
> -Curt
>
> On Tuesday, August 13, 2019, 8:38:41 PM EDT, Dwight Giles via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>
> Stories from a great teacher. My audience is,a bit more,captive but i still
> see some of these behaviors
>
> Dwight Giles Jr.
> Wickford RI
>
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 7:53 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com>
> wrote:
>
> > As a technical trainer for a corporate entity you get to experience some
> > of the worst possible students:
> >
> > 1.) Someone who has been doing the job/work who thinks they know more
> than
> > you and wants to point it out every chance they get; or,
> >
> > 2.) The employee who has been forced to attend, like it or not, and
> > doesn’t want to be there.
> >
> > When I was doing training these didn’t happen too often, but they did
> > happen.
> >
> > #1 was usually the one who sat in the front of the class and constantly
> > interrupted you to bring attention to their “superior" knowledge. In
> > fairness there were times when a student might know more than I did for
> > whatever reason, and I looked to that as a learning experience for me. I
> > dealt wth these guys in two ways:
> >
> > Acknowledge them in front of the class and let them know that if they had
> > questions or wanted information they could speak with me during a break,
> > and that their questions were good but weren’t relevant to the material
> at
> > that time. The other students usually resented this student for being a
> > d*ck in general, more often than not.
> >
> > Take them aside during a break and tell them to take notes of their
> > questions and I would address the outside of class. If they were really
> > obnoxious, I would tell them to knock off the interruptions.
> >
> > One time I was conducting a class at one of our largest customers, a big
> > oil field supply company called Waukesha-Pearce. They had in-house
> training
> > people who were very good and present for my class, more or less just
> > keeping tabs on things. There was a guy who sat in the front and
> constantly
> > interrupted me with obscure questions that weren’t entirely relevant.
> > People were getting pissed at “Tommy”, as this was apparently a regular
> > thing for him. I finally got so irritated that I stopped the class after
> > one of his questions where he challenged my knowledge. I walked over,
> > reached out with the pointer/clicker I was using, and said, “Tommy, it’s
> > clear that you must know far more than I do about our products, so why
> > don’t you conduct the class for the rest of the day?”
> >
> > Silence.
> >
> > I immediately freaked out, because the company’s training manager, a good
> > old Texas guy named Arnold, was sitting in back looking right at me.
> >
> > “Let’s take a break.”
> >
> > I made a beeline for Arnold, immediately apologizing for my behavior.
> > Arnold laughed his proverbial *ss off. He thought it was great that Tommy
> > got his comeuppance. A number of the other students told me much the same
> > later that week.
> >
> > Tommy was quiet for the rest of the week.
> >
> > As for the guys who don’t want to be there, you just have to ignore them
> > as long as they don’t disturb things. There were times when I would talk
> to
> > them on break and acknowledge their displeasure and offer to cover topics
> > or provide information that they might be interested in if it wasn’t
> being
> > offered in that class.
> >
> > I’ve always loved teaching, but I know that it can be a grind to sit
> > through a week of highly technical material and keep it engaging,
> > especially if you don’t want to be there or are already familiar with the
> > material.
> >
> > -D
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Aug 13, 2019, at 7:31 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Only recently have my classes really started to include a majority of
> > folks younger than me.Most 

Re: [MBZ] Was 722.6 ATF Temperature chart - now Teaching

2019-08-13 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
 What always amazes me is that these jokers had their employer paying thousands 
of dollars to see me talk but couldn't be bothered to pay attention. Actually 
the stranger ones are the self-employed that are paying for themselves but 
trying to run a business at the same time. I understand that your business has 
to run but I'm not going to let you take the test extra times because you 
weren't paying attention...
Usually the good students "fix" the bad ones. I remember one young woman from 
LA telling off an older guy. That guy was particularly bad, he'd space out for 
an hour or so and then want me to go back and cover the last hour again. She 
wasn't really technical and was struggling to keep up. After a day of his 
shenanigans she'd had enough and had no problem telling him to pay attention 
each and every time she noticed him drifting off, it was hilarious.
-Curt

On Tuesday, August 13, 2019, 8:38:41 PM EDT, Dwight Giles via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Stories from a great teacher. My audience is,a bit more,captive but i still
see some of these behaviors

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 7:53 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
wrote:

> As a technical trainer for a corporate entity you get to experience some
> of the worst possible students:
>
> 1.) Someone who has been doing the job/work who thinks they know more than
> you and wants to point it out every chance they get; or,
>
> 2.) The employee who has been forced to attend, like it or not, and
> doesn’t want to be there.
>
> When I was doing training these didn’t happen too often, but they did
> happen.
>
> #1 was usually the one who sat in the front of the class and constantly
> interrupted you to bring attention to their “superior" knowledge. In
> fairness there were times when a student might know more than I did for
> whatever reason, and I looked to that as a learning experience for me. I
> dealt wth these guys in two ways:
>
> Acknowledge them in front of the class and let them know that if they had
> questions or wanted information they could speak with me during a break,
> and that their questions were good but weren’t relevant to the material at
> that time. The other students usually resented this student for being a
> d*ck in general, more often than not.
>
> Take them aside during a break and tell them to take notes of their
> questions and I would address the outside of class. If they were really
> obnoxious, I would tell them to knock off the interruptions.
>
> One time I was conducting a class at one of our largest customers, a big
> oil field supply company called Waukesha-Pearce. They had in-house training
> people who were very good and present for my class, more or less just
> keeping tabs on things. There was a guy who sat in the front and constantly
> interrupted me with obscure questions that weren’t entirely relevant.
> People were getting pissed at “Tommy”, as this was apparently a regular
> thing for him. I finally got so irritated that I stopped the class after
> one of his questions where he challenged my knowledge. I walked over,
> reached out with the pointer/clicker I was using, and said, “Tommy, it’s
> clear that you must know far more than I do about our products, so why
> don’t you conduct the class for the rest of the day?”
>
> Silence.
>
> I immediately freaked out, because the company’s training manager, a good
> old Texas guy named Arnold, was sitting in back looking right at me.
>
> “Let’s take a break.”
>
> I made a beeline for Arnold, immediately apologizing for my behavior.
> Arnold laughed his proverbial *ss off. He thought it was great that Tommy
> got his comeuppance. A number of the other students told me much the same
> later that week.
>
> Tommy was quiet for the rest of the week.
>
> As for the guys who don’t want to be there, you just have to ignore them
> as long as they don’t disturb things. There were times when I would talk to
> them on break and acknowledge their displeasure and offer to cover topics
> or provide information that they might be interested in if it wasn’t being
> offered in that class.
>
> I’ve always loved teaching, but I know that it can be a grind to sit
> through a week of highly technical material and keep it engaging,
> especially if you don’t want to be there or are already familiar with the
> material.
>
> -D
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 13, 2019, at 7:31 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > Only recently have my classes really started to include a majority of
> folks younger than me.Most recently the very best students are very young,
> early 20's.
> > The worst was when I first started and got mostly boomers in their early
> 60's. They already knew it all and didn't want "some kid" (I was 30)
> telling them anything. Many of them flunked and got to go through the class
> again...
> >
> > Curt
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> >
> >  On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 3:22 AM, G Mann via Mercedes<
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:  Well 

Re: [MBZ] Was 722.6 ATF Temperature chart - now Teaching

2019-08-13 Thread Dwight Giles via Mercedes
Stories from a great teacher. My audience is,a bit more,captive but i still
see some of these behaviors

Dwight Giles Jr.
Wickford RI

On Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 7:53 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
wrote:

> As a technical trainer for a corporate entity you get to experience some
> of the worst possible students:
>
> 1.) Someone who has been doing the job/work who thinks they know more than
> you and wants to point it out every chance they get; or,
>
> 2.) The employee who has been forced to attend, like it or not, and
> doesn’t want to be there.
>
> When I was doing training these didn’t happen too often, but they did
> happen.
>
> #1 was usually the one who sat in the front of the class and constantly
> interrupted you to bring attention to their “superior" knowledge. In
> fairness there were times when a student might know more than I did for
> whatever reason, and I looked to that as a learning experience for me. I
> dealt wth these guys in two ways:
>
> Acknowledge them in front of the class and let them know that if they had
> questions or wanted information they could speak with me during a break,
> and that their questions were good but weren’t relevant to the material at
> that time. The other students usually resented this student for being a
> d*ck in general, more often than not.
>
> Take them aside during a break and tell them to take notes of their
> questions and I would address the outside of class. If they were really
> obnoxious, I would tell them to knock off the interruptions.
>
> One time I was conducting a class at one of our largest customers, a big
> oil field supply company called Waukesha-Pearce. They had in-house training
> people who were very good and present for my class, more or less just
> keeping tabs on things. There was a guy who sat in the front and constantly
> interrupted me with obscure questions that weren’t entirely relevant.
> People were getting pissed at “Tommy”, as this was apparently a regular
> thing for him. I finally got so irritated that I stopped the class after
> one of his questions where he challenged my knowledge. I walked over,
> reached out with the pointer/clicker I was using, and said, “Tommy, it’s
> clear that you must know far more than I do about our products, so why
> don’t you conduct the class for the rest of the day?”
>
> Silence.
>
> I immediately freaked out, because the company’s training manager, a good
> old Texas guy named Arnold, was sitting in back looking right at me.
>
> “Let’s take a break.”
>
> I made a beeline for Arnold, immediately apologizing for my behavior.
> Arnold laughed his proverbial *ss off. He thought it was great that Tommy
> got his comeuppance. A number of the other students told me much the same
> later that week.
>
> Tommy was quiet for the rest of the week.
>
> As for the guys who don’t want to be there, you just have to ignore them
> as long as they don’t disturb things. There were times when I would talk to
> them on break and acknowledge their displeasure and offer to cover topics
> or provide information that they might be interested in if it wasn’t being
> offered in that class.
>
> I’ve always loved teaching, but I know that it can be a grind to sit
> through a week of highly technical material and keep it engaging,
> especially if you don’t want to be there or are already familiar with the
> material.
>
> -D
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 13, 2019, at 7:31 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> > Only recently have my classes really started to include a majority of
> folks younger than me.Most recently the very best students are very young,
> early 20's.
> > The worst was when I first started and got mostly boomers in their early
> 60's. They already knew it all and didn't want "some kid" (I was 30)
> telling them anything. Many of them flunked and got to go through the class
> again...
> >
> > Curt
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> >
> >  On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 3:22 AM, G Mann via Mercedes<
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:   Well played !
> > However, I am just old school enough to truly favor public humiliation
> as a
> > teaching tool. The extremely short attention span of the present
> generation
> > is most remarkable. It seems primary education consists of the principle
> of
> > "If you throw enough mud against a wall, some of it will stick".
> which
> > has generated a term for my use "Teflon children" ie those for whom
> nothing
> > stuck.
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 12:12 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> > mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >
> >> “You never said/covered that.”
> >>
> >> “Yes I did, on this date/time.” (holds up lesson plan/notes)
> >>
> >> (Portion of classmates concur)
> >>
> >> Virtual dunce cap applied through social interaction.
> >>
> >> -D
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Aug 13, 2019, at 2:03 PM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes <
> >> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Ah yes one of the joys of teaching.
> >>>
> >>> Dwight Giles Jr.
> >>> Wickford RI
> 

Re: [MBZ] Was 722.6 ATF Temperature chart - now Teaching

2019-08-13 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
As a technical trainer for a corporate entity you get to experience some of the 
worst possible students:

1.) Someone who has been doing the job/work who thinks they know more than you 
and wants to point it out every chance they get; or,

2.) The employee who has been forced to attend, like it or not, and doesn’t 
want to be there.

When I was doing training these didn’t happen too often, but they did happen.

#1 was usually the one who sat in the front of the class and constantly 
interrupted you to bring attention to their “superior" knowledge. In fairness 
there were times when a student might know more than I did for whatever reason, 
and I looked to that as a learning experience for me. I dealt wth these guys in 
two ways:

Acknowledge them in front of the class and let them know that if they had 
questions or wanted information they could speak with me during a break, and 
that their questions were good but weren’t relevant to the material at that 
time. The other students usually resented this student for being a d*ck in 
general, more often than not.

Take them aside during a break and tell them to take notes of their questions 
and I would address the outside of class. If they were really obnoxious, I 
would tell them to knock off the interruptions.

One time I was conducting a class at one of our largest customers, a big oil 
field supply company called Waukesha-Pearce. They had in-house training people 
who were very good and present for my class, more or less just keeping tabs on 
things. There was a guy who sat in the front and constantly interrupted me with 
obscure questions that weren’t entirely relevant. People were getting pissed at 
“Tommy”, as this was apparently a regular thing for him. I finally got so 
irritated that I stopped the class after one of his questions where he 
challenged my knowledge. I walked over, reached out with the pointer/clicker I 
was using, and said, “Tommy, it’s clear that you must know far more than I do 
about our products, so why don’t you conduct the class for the rest of the day?”

Silence.

I immediately freaked out, because the company’s training manager, a good old 
Texas guy named Arnold, was sitting in back looking right at me.

“Let’s take a break.”

I made a beeline for Arnold, immediately apologizing for my behavior. Arnold 
laughed his proverbial *ss off. He thought it was great that Tommy got his 
comeuppance. A number of the other students told me much the same later that 
week.

Tommy was quiet for the rest of the week.

As for the guys who don’t want to be there, you just have to ignore them as 
long as they don’t disturb things. There were times when I would talk to them 
on break and acknowledge their displeasure and offer to cover topics or provide 
information that they might be interested in if it wasn’t being offered in that 
class.

I’ve always loved teaching, but I know that it can be a grind to sit through a 
week of highly technical material and keep it engaging, especially if you don’t 
want to be there or are already familiar with the material.

-D





> On Aug 13, 2019, at 7:31 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Only recently have my classes really started to include a majority of folks 
> younger than me.Most recently the very best students are very young, early 
> 20's.
> The worst was when I first started and got mostly boomers in their early 
> 60's. They already knew it all and didn't want "some kid" (I was 30) telling 
> them anything. Many of them flunked and got to go through the class again...
> 
> Curt
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
> 
>  On Wed, Aug 14, 2019 at 3:22 AM, G Mann via Mercedes 
> wrote:   Well played !
> However, I am just old school enough to truly favor public humiliation as a
> teaching tool. The extremely short attention span of the present generation
> is most remarkable. It seems primary education consists of the principle of
> "If you throw enough mud against a wall, some of it will stick".  which
> has generated a term for my use "Teflon children" ie those for whom nothing
> stuck.
> 
> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019 at 12:12 PM Dan Penoff via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> 
>> “You never said/covered that.”
>> 
>> “Yes I did, on this date/time.” (holds up lesson plan/notes)
>> 
>> (Portion of classmates concur)
>> 
>> Virtual dunce cap applied through social interaction.
>> 
>> -D
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Aug 13, 2019, at 2:03 PM, Dwight Giles via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Ah yes one of the joys of teaching.
>>> 
>>> Dwight Giles Jr.
>>> Wickford RI
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Aug 13, 2019, 1:53 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
 This week has been a real reminder for me that people don't pay
 attention. We're building VMs to install Windows Server on, I put the
>> specs
 they should all be built to on the screen, no two student systems are
>> the
 same.I say things like "The S: drive should be named