Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week

2015-06-16 Thread Dimitri via Mercedes
:
 
 Wasn't it Will Rodgers that said some people have to pee on the
 electric
 fence for themselves? Sounds like Clay has started peeing.
 When he runs out of the rotten HF wire that EVERYBODY says sucks and
 gets
 some better stuff maybe he'll believe the rest of the world on that
 too.
 -Curt
From: Jim Cathey via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Cc: Jim Cathey jim.cathey...@gmail.com
 Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 5:05 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week
 
 Wire feed welders are nicknamed glue guns.  Clearly, HF
 does not make one such.  Using the Miller on clean, reasonably
 thick sheet metal, and I understand the nickname.
 
 -- Jim
 
 
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week

2015-06-16 Thread G Mann via Mercedes
.  Since
  there is no adjustment for heat, just speed, it could be a failsafe.
  The
  lowest speeds must be regulated in such a manner that using it on thin
  sheet metal would not allow it to function long enough to burn
 through.
  Maybe it is set to feed tacks so you do not overheat and warp.  Sort
 of
  forcing you to start and stop against your will.
 
 
 
  clay
 
  2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately  well tailored chap
  1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
  1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
  1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
  1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
  POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  On Jun 14, 2015, at 5:03 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:
 
  Just had a flash on something our new welder said in an earlier post
  about
  the wire not feeding consistantly..
 
  I've never been into the bowels of a Harbor Fright unit.. but there
  should
  be a tension adjustment on the wire feed motor. [everyone I've used
  to
  date did have one.] If that tension is loose, the wire will not feed
  exactly according to the magic number on the dial...
 
  Check that, why don't you.. And.. get a small roll of flux wire, not
  made
  in china.
 
  On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 3:00 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
  mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
  Wasn't it Will Rodgers that said some people have to pee on the
  electric
  fence for themselves? Sounds like Clay has started peeing.
  When he runs out of the rotten HF wire that EVERYBODY says sucks and
  gets
  some better stuff maybe he'll believe the rest of the world on that
  too.
  -Curt
 From: Jim Cathey via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
  To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
  Cc: Jim Cathey jim.cathey...@gmail.com
  Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 5:05 PM
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week
 
  Wire feed welders are nicknamed glue guns.  Clearly, HF
  does not make one such.  Using the Miller on clean, reasonably
  thick sheet metal, and I understand the nickname.
 
  -- Jim
 
 
 
 
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  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week

2015-06-16 Thread Craig via Mercedes
On Mon, 15 Jun 2015 23:26:51 + (UTC) Curt Raymond via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 4130 shows up mostly in tubing no?

The flywheel shaft in our propane-fired Chevette engine powered generator
was turned from a piece of 6 4130 round stock.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week

2015-06-15 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
I was amazed at the stud welders, or whatever they call them, where they weld a 
stud or post onto the panel to pull it out.

Interesting.

Metalwork and bodywork are art forms to me.  They seem to not only require 
physical skills, but the ability to understand where something is going and how 
to get there based on the tools or materials available.

Sort of like drywall finishing….

Dan

 On Jun 15, 2015, at 9:24 AM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 wrote:
 
 Have never welded but want to, but watching all those car shows suggests that 
 the tack-welding-sheet-metal technique is the way to do it as the heat will 
 warp the metal if you try to do continuous.
 
 Solution:  Watch more cableTV car shows!
 
 --R
 
 
 
 On 6/14/15 4:19 PM, clay via Mercedes wrote:
 The solution to that was to not try to make a bead, but to just put a bunch 
 or tacks all over the piece and then go back and put some more next to the 
 last ones.  Refer to cleaning the old slag above, and my attempts were more 
 successful.  That took a long time to figure out.  It also stopped the blow 
 outs, warpage and other troubles that build up of excess heat was causing.  
 Go slowly with lots of stitches from quick little spots of heat.
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week

2015-06-15 Thread Rich Thomas via Mercedes

Unfortunately I have become a master drywaller.  I hate it too.

--R



On 6/15/15 9:28 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

I was amazed at the stud welders, or whatever they call them, where they weld a 
stud or post onto the panel to pull it out.

Interesting.

Metalwork and bodywork are art forms to me.  They seem to not only require 
physical skills, but the ability to understand where something is going and how 
to get there based on the tools or materials available.

Sort of like drywall finishing….

Dan


On Jun 15, 2015, at 9:24 AM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com 
wrote:

Have never welded but want to, but watching all those car shows suggests that 
the tack-welding-sheet-metal technique is the way to do it as the heat will 
warp the metal if you try to do continuous.

Solution:  Watch more cableTV car shows!

--R



On 6/14/15 4:19 PM, clay via Mercedes wrote:

The solution to that was to not try to make a bead, but to just put a bunch or 
tacks all over the piece and then go back and put some more next to the last 
ones.  Refer to cleaning the old slag above, and my attempts were more 
successful.  That took a long time to figure out.  It also stopped the blow 
outs, warpage and other troubles that build up of excess heat was causing.  Go 
slowly with lots of stitches from quick little spots of heat.


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Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week

2015-06-15 Thread Rich Thomas via Mercedes
Have never welded but want to, but watching all those car shows suggests 
that the tack-welding-sheet-metal technique is the way to do it as the 
heat will warp the metal if you try to do continuous.


Solution:  Watch more cableTV car shows!

--R



On 6/14/15 4:19 PM, clay via Mercedes wrote:

The solution to that was to not try to make a bead, but to just put a bunch or 
tacks all over the piece and then go back and put some more next to the last 
ones.  Refer to cleaning the old slag above, and my attempts were more 
successful.  That took a long time to figure out.  It also stopped the blow 
outs, warpage and other troubles that build up of excess heat was causing.  Go 
slowly with lots of stitches from quick little spots of heat.



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Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week

2015-06-15 Thread WILTON via Mercedes

'Pretty good at it myself.

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com

To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 9:34 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week



Unfortunately I have become a master drywaller.  I hate it too.

--R



On 6/15/15 9:28 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
I was amazed at the stud welders, or whatever they call them, where they 
weld a stud or post onto the panel to pull it out.


Interesting.

Metalwork and bodywork are art forms to me.  They seem to not only 
require physical skills, but the ability to understand where something is 
going and how to get there based on the tools or materials available.


Sort of like drywall finishing….

Dan

On Jun 15, 2015, at 9:24 AM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:


Have never welded but want to, but watching all those car shows suggests 
that the tack-welding-sheet-metal technique is the way to do it as the 
heat will warp the metal if you try to do continuous.


Solution:  Watch more cableTV car shows!

--R



On 6/14/15 4:19 PM, clay via Mercedes wrote:
The solution to that was to not try to make a bead, but to just put a 
bunch or tacks all over the piece and then go back and put some more 
next to the last ones.  Refer to cleaning the old slag above, and my 
attempts were more successful.  That took a long time to figure out. 
It also stopped the blow outs, warpage and other troubles that build up 
of excess heat was causing.  Go slowly with lots of stitches from quick 
little spots of heat.


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Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week

2015-06-15 Thread Craig via Mercedes
On Mon, 15 Jun 2015 10:24:27 -0400 WILTON via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 'Pretty good at it myself.

You got practice up in Greenland, didn't you, Wilton?


Craig


 - Original Message - 
 From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 
  Unfortunately I have become a master drywaller.  I hate it too.

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Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week

2015-06-15 Thread OK Don via Mercedes
I have 4130 in sheets also - for making fittings, etc. I think the issue
with welding high strength auto steel might be tempering, or the
ruination of the same - - -

On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 6:26 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Google doesn't seem to reveal much more than what I remembered which the
 advice to just don't do it. I did find some vauge references to carbon
 embrittlement.
 4130 shows up mostly in tubing no? I'm wondering if the high strength is
 really high carbon and something about acetylene mixes with the carbon to
 do something funky.
 -Curt




-- 
OK Don

NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves.

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
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Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week

2015-06-15 Thread Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes
Anybody hoping to learn anything about welding should probably post over on
welding Web for some sound advice. I applaud you for diving in though.

Starting on thin material is always going to be a tall order, no matter the
process.

It would probably be just as easy to gas weld that stuff with an oxy
acetylene torch. That's how we did all the floor pans (and all the other
body work) on the 55 chevy convertible when I was a kid. It seems like it
was a lot easier to learn than this Flux wire junk. If you are only doing
one car, I cant imagine you need a wire feed welder, no matter how cheap.
And a torch can be used to cut and heat also.

Where are the pics of this project?

Karl
On Jun 15, 2015 7:24 AM, WILTON via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
wrote:

 'Pretty good at it myself.

 Wilton

 - Original Message - From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Cc: Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net
 Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 9:34 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week


  Unfortunately I have become a master drywaller.  I hate it too.

 --R



 On 6/15/15 9:28 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

 I was amazed at the stud welders, or whatever they call them, where they
 weld a stud or post onto the panel to pull it out.

 Interesting.

 Metalwork and bodywork are art forms to me.  They seem to not only
 require physical skills, but the ability to understand where something is
 going and how to get there based on the tools or materials available.

 Sort of like drywall finishing….

 Dan

  On Jun 15, 2015, at 9:24 AM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Have never welded but want to, but watching all those car shows
 suggests that the tack-welding-sheet-metal technique is the way to do it as
 the heat will warp the metal if you try to do continuous.

 Solution:  Watch more cableTV car shows!

 --R



 On 6/14/15 4:19 PM, clay via Mercedes wrote:

 The solution to that was to not try to make a bead, but to just put a
 bunch or tacks all over the piece and then go back and put some more next
 to the last ones.  Refer to cleaning the old slag above, and my attempts
 were more successful.  That took a long time to figure out. It also 
 stopped
 the blow outs, warpage and other troubles that build up of excess heat was
 causing.  Go slowly with lots of stitches from quick little spots of heat.


 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com

 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com


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Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week

2015-06-15 Thread WILTON via Mercedes
Some, but I was already proficient at it; 'taught several of the Danes there 
to do it.


Got even more proficient here restoring/renovating coupla National Register 
of Historic Places properties, the house I'm living in and some others that 
I flipped.


Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Craig via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: Craig diese...@pisquared.net
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 9:51 PM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week



On Mon, 15 Jun 2015 10:24:27 -0400 WILTON via Mercedes
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:


'Pretty good at it myself.


You got practice up in Greenland, didn't you, Wilton?


Craig


- Original Message - 
From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com


 Unfortunately I have become a master drywaller.  I hate it too.


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Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week

2015-06-15 Thread clay via Mercedes
The machine is made to handle only 0.030 and 0.035 flux.  The feed wheels flip 
over to accept one or the other.  Crank down barely grasps the 0.030 enough to 
feed at lowest speeds.

I am thinking your advice to hammer the hot puddle may require a third and 
forth hand.  I should be able to find something like that

clay


On Jun 14, 2015, at 9:54 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

 Question I failed to ask:
 
 What diameter wire are you using? .020, .030 or .035 ?
 
 To use the .020 wire, you will need to change the wheel gap adjustment to
 fit the smaller wire AND change the wire guide in the business end of the
 torch to fit the smaller wire.
 
 Smaller wire will give you a hotter, smaller weld puddle, so you will need
 to change your speed of torch movement to adapt. However, with smaller
 wire, you should get a weld puddle that is more correct size for thinner
 sheet metal. If you have an amperage adjustment, crank it down for the
 smaller wire.
 
 Again, do spot welds, Hammer and dolly the welds while still red, which
 will flatten the weld joint and make better contact, thus better welds..
 Your tack weld should be 1/8 to 1/4 inch long, so as you work the panel
 into position [tack on one side.. hammer/dolly to flatten tack the
 other side .. hammer/dolly to flatten.. As you work around the repair..
 soon you have the patch contained with the weld joint overlap nice and
 flat from hammer / dolly and on the second pass.. instead of tack welds 4
 inches apart.. go in between the 4 inch tacks.. same routine.. so on second
 pass you have a tack ever 2 inches.. repeat as necessary..
 
 Soon you have a good repair.
 
 On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 6:26 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 wrote:
 
 I actually read the destructions that came with the zapper.  I followed
 the set up to the letter and even made sure the wheels were in the proper
 orientation for the wire I was using.  There are no teeth to the wheels
 that would provide decent bite.  Just some knurling like you would find on
 a dime in the grooves.  I have the tension adjusted almost to the point of
 strangling the wire.  It does not speed up or make the wire feed properly.
 
 I am thinking the low speed setting is actually in Dummy mode.  Since
 there is no adjustment for heat, just speed, it could be a failsafe.   The
 lowest speeds must be regulated in such a manner that using it on thin
 sheet metal would not allow it to function long enough to burn through.
 Maybe it is set to feed tacks so you do not overheat and warp.  Sort of
 forcing you to start and stop against your will.
 
 
 
 clay
 
 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately  well tailored chap
 1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
 1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
 POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 On Jun 14, 2015, at 5:03 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:
 
 Just had a flash on something our new welder said in an earlier post
 about
 the wire not feeding consistantly..
 
 I've never been into the bowels of a Harbor Fright unit.. but there
 should
 be a tension adjustment on the wire feed motor. [everyone I've used to
 date did have one.] If that tension is loose, the wire will not feed
 exactly according to the magic number on the dial...
 
 Check that, why don't you.. And.. get a small roll of flux wire, not made
 in china.
 
 On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 3:00 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 Wasn't it Will Rodgers that said some people have to pee on the electric
 fence for themselves? Sounds like Clay has started peeing.
 When he runs out of the rotten HF wire that EVERYBODY says sucks and
 gets
 some better stuff maybe he'll believe the rest of the world on that too.
 -Curt
 From: Jim Cathey via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Cc: Jim Cathey jim.cathey...@gmail.com
 Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 5:05 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week
 
 Wire feed welders are nicknamed glue guns.  Clearly, HF
 does not make one such.  Using the Miller on clean, reasonably
 thick sheet metal, and I understand the nickname.
 
 -- Jim
 
 
 
 
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 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week

2015-06-15 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
You can't (or supposedly can't, I've never tried) gas weld high strength steel 
from about 1980 on. You could braze it I suppose.
Honestly Karl its all about Clay starting with a junk welder and not listening 
to any of the advice he's been given, he's making this as hard for himself as 
possible. I've got a Lincoln Handy Mig and it can stick good clean 18ga metal 
together all day without blowing through.
Try sticking it to the dubious crap that makes up an old car and things get 
interesting. The trick there is to cut back far enough to find really solid 
metal. Sometimes thats hard...
-Curt
  From: Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: mercedes@okiebenz com mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Cc: Karl Wittnebel atypical...@gmail.com 
 Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 3:24 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week
   
Anybody hoping to learn anything about welding should probably post over on
welding Web for some sound advice. I applaud you for diving in though.

Starting on thin material is always going to be a tall order, no matter the
process.

It would probably be just as easy to gas weld that stuff with an oxy
acetylene torch. That's how we did all the floor pans (and all the other
body work) on the 55 chevy convertible when I was a kid. It seems like it
was a lot easier to learn than this Flux wire junk. If you are only doing
one car, I cant imagine you need a wire feed welder, no matter how cheap.
And a torch can be used to cut and heat also.

Where are the pics of this project?

Karl
On Jun 15, 2015 7:24 AM, WILTON via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
wrote:

 'Pretty good at it myself.

 Wilton

 - Original Message - From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Cc: Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net
 Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 9:34 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week


  Unfortunately I have become a master drywaller.  I hate it too.

 --R



 On 6/15/15 9:28 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

 I was amazed at the stud welders, or whatever they call them, where they
 weld a stud or post onto the panel to pull it out.

 Interesting.

 Metalwork and bodywork are art forms to me.  They seem to not only
 require physical skills, but the ability to understand where something is
 going and how to get there based on the tools or materials available.

 Sort of like drywall finishing….

 Dan

  On Jun 15, 2015, at 9:24 AM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Have never welded but want to, but watching all those car shows
 suggests that the tack-welding-sheet-metal technique is the way to do it as
 the heat will warp the metal if you try to do continuous.

 Solution:  Watch more cableTV car shows!

 --R



 On 6/14/15 4:19 PM, clay via Mercedes wrote:

 The solution to that was to not try to make a bead, but to just put a
 bunch or tacks all over the piece and then go back and put some more next
 to the last ones.  Refer to cleaning the old slag above, and my attempts
 were more successful.  That took a long time to figure out. It also 
 stopped
 the blow outs, warpage and other troubles that build up of excess heat was
 causing.  Go slowly with lots of stitches from quick little spots of heat.


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Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week

2015-06-15 Thread clay via Mercedes
Not headed to do the project just yet.  I will make a few pix for fun.  

AS for welding torches and such.  I kind of felt it would be less controllable 
and flammable than poking arcs and wire.  I am not that good with flames, and 
the arc would be a bit more surgical.  Going in, I was not aware that sheet 
metal was such a complex process.   The gobs of epoxy and fiberglass were not 
going to do the job, as they were delaminating and the rust was not dealt with 
on the underside.  May as well put metal back for a solid repair.


On Jun 15, 2015, at 12:24 PM, Karl Wittnebel via Mercedes wrote:

 Anybody hoping to learn anything about welding should probably post over on
 welding Web for some sound advice. I applaud you for diving in though.
 
 Starting on thin material is always going to be a tall order, no matter the
 process.
 
 It would probably be just as easy to gas weld that stuff with an oxy
 acetylene torch. That's how we did all the floor pans (and all the other
 body work) on the 55 chevy convertible when I was a kid. It seems like it
 was a lot easier to learn than this Flux wire junk. If you are only doing
 one car, I cant imagine you need a wire feed welder, no matter how cheap.
 And a torch can be used to cut and heat also.
 
 Where are the pics of this project?
 
 Karl
 On Jun 15, 2015 7:24 AM, WILTON via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 wrote:
 
 'Pretty good at it myself.
 
 Wilton
 
 - Original Message - From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Cc: Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net
 Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 9:34 AM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week
 
 
 Unfortunately I have become a master drywaller.  I hate it too.
 
 --R
 
 
 
 On 6/15/15 9:28 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:
 
 I was amazed at the stud welders, or whatever they call them, where they
 weld a stud or post onto the panel to pull it out.
 
 Interesting.
 
 Metalwork and bodywork are art forms to me.  They seem to not only
 require physical skills, but the ability to understand where something is
 going and how to get there based on the tools or materials available.
 
 Sort of like drywall finishing….
 
 Dan
 
 On Jun 15, 2015, at 9:24 AM, Rich Thomas via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 Have never welded but want to, but watching all those car shows
 suggests that the tack-welding-sheet-metal technique is the way to do it 
 as
 the heat will warp the metal if you try to do continuous.
 
 Solution:  Watch more cableTV car shows!
 
 --R
 
 
 
 On 6/14/15 4:19 PM, clay via Mercedes wrote:
 
 The solution to that was to not try to make a bead, but to just put a
 bunch or tacks all over the piece and then go back and put some more next
 to the last ones.  Refer to cleaning the old slag above, and my attempts
 were more successful.  That took a long time to figure out. It also 
 stopped
 the blow outs, warpage and other troubles that build up of excess heat 
 was
 causing.  Go slowly with lots of stitches from quick little spots of 
 heat.
 
 
 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 
 To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 
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 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week

2015-06-15 Thread Randy Bennell via Mercedes
Just get some new wire and start doing spot welds and don't try to run 
long beads.
My younger son did a whole lot of that on the old 4Runner that we had 
and did a pretty decent job rebuilding the metal over the rear wheel 
arches and the rear quarter from the arch to the back of the panel.
He just tacked and then tacked between until he had it filled in. Used a 
flap disk in a grinder to flatten the welds and it all looked pretty 
good when he was done. It was fall and too cold to paint so he sprayed 
it with rattle can rock guard and let it go but if he had been able to 
smooth a bit of filler over it, it would have fooled most folks into 
thinking it was original.

He had little or no experience welding.
The welder is a Lincoln Migpac 180 with gas. I had a more basic 120V 
unit first and had very little luck with it. It had the gas setup too 
but like yours, little control of heat or wire speed.
I gave it to my b-in-l and bought this one on a good sale. Kept the 
argon tank and made my b-in-l get his own tank.


RB

On 15/06/2015 4:10 PM, clay via Mercedes wrote:

Not headed to do the project just yet.  I will make a few pix for fun.

AS for welding torches and such.  I kind of felt it would be less controllable 
and flammable than poking arcs and wire.  I am not that good with flames, and 
the arc would be a bit more surgical.  Going in, I was not aware that sheet 
metal was such a complex process.   The gobs of epoxy and fiberglass were not 
going to do the job, as they were delaminating and the rust was not dealt with 
on the underside.  May as well put metal back for a solid repair.







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Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week

2015-06-15 Thread OK Don via Mercedes
I wonder just what that high strength steel really is. I thought that
chrome moly 4130 was high strength steel, and I weld it all the time (with
gas).

On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 5:16 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 You can't (or supposedly can't, I've never tried) gas weld high strength
 steel from about 1980 on. You could braze it I suppose.
 Honestly Karl its all about Clay starting with a junk welder and not
 listening to any of the advice he's been given, he's making this as hard
 for himself as possible. I've got a Lincoln Handy Mig and it can stick good
 clean 18ga metal together all day without blowing through.
 Try sticking it to the dubious crap that makes up an old car and things
 get interesting. The trick there is to cut back far enough to find really
 solid metal. Sometimes thats hard...
 -Curt




-- 
OK Don

NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves.

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week

2015-06-15 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
Google doesn't seem to reveal much more than what I remembered which the advice 
to just don't do it. I did find some vauge references to carbon embrittlement.
4130 shows up mostly in tubing no? I'm wondering if the high strength is 
really high carbon and something about acetylene mixes with the carbon to do 
something funky.
-Curt
  From: OK Don okd...@gmail.com
 To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List 
mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 Sent: Monday, June 15, 2015 7:15 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week
   
I wonder just what that high strength steel really is. I thought that chrome 
moly 4130 was high strength steel, and I weld it all the time (with gas).


On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 5:16 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

You can't (or supposedly can't, I've never tried) gas weld high strength steel 
from about 1980 on. You could braze it I suppose.
Honestly Karl its all about Clay starting with a junk welder and not listening 
to any of the advice he's been given, he's making this as hard for himself as 
possible. I've got a Lincoln Handy Mig and it can stick good clean 18ga metal 
together all day without blowing through.
Try sticking it to the dubious crap that makes up an old car and things get 
interesting. The trick there is to cut back far enough to find really solid 
metal. Sometimes thats hard...
-Curt



-- 
OK Don
NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our 
people need it sorely on these accounts.” – Mark TwainThere are three kinds of 
men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The 
rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.WILL ROGERS, The 
Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers2013 F150, 18 mpg2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg1957 
C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!

  
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Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week

2015-06-15 Thread G Mann via Mercedes
: Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week
 
  Wire feed welders are nicknamed glue guns.  Clearly, HF
  does not make one such.  Using the Miller on clean, reasonably
  thick sheet metal, and I understand the nickname.
 
  -- Jim
 
 
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week

2015-06-14 Thread Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes
Cleaning the slag from a previous weld should be pretty easy using a welding
hammer and a wire brush.  My experience welding was working as a
steamfitter/rigger for about a year on a powerhouse job along the Hudson
River (Roseton, NY)in the early 70s.  Also took a course at a tech school.
I do ok with a stick machine for thicker material, but resort to brazing (or
silver-solder) with a B tank and acetylene for the thinner stuff.  Less
burn-through because of lower temps, neater joints, and just as strong if
you use the correct rod.  Some alloys even wick nicely into tight joints.  I
got my gear and materials cheap or free from my brother, who was selling
high-tech welding supplies at the time.

Greg

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of clay via
Mercedes
Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 1:20 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Cc: clay
Subject: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week

It has been a week of dragging my butt outside in the heat and playing with
the flux core welding gun.  In that time I have gained some perspective on
just how much work making a decent weld is.

At first I was just banging about with the gun and burning through wire and
sheet metal.  It was really nasty, but I got a feel for the machine and the
gun.  Having the old brake rotor to play with allowed me to get comfortable
that I could lay down a good bead, but it seemed only on a heavy bit of
iron, not something thin, like what I need to know so I can repair the
rusted and rotted out floors in the 300D.  SO, zapping thick metal is eazy
peezy and most any monkey can do that.

I also found that flux core is not good to try to start and stop.  It took
me a bit to understand that the slag and cruft impedes a good weld, so you
need to clean the prior muck before you go at it again.  Getting it back to
bare metal would let the new bead adhere and flow instead of spattering out
pellet of micro death all over the world.  Flux is great for outdoor work,
which the car repair will be.  No need to worry the wind is blowing my
shielding gas away and the air flow also will make the toxic fumes move away
from the work.  That is a plus.

The HF welding toy is very basic and binary.  You have either BIG amp or
small amp button and a spastic wire feed control.  The little graphic under
the hood tells you if you need BIG or small and what wire speed for what
thickness of metal.  It lies and is very optimistic when dealing with thin
sheet metal.  At least if you expect to be laying down a continuous bead.  I
could not keep from blowing through the metal and having bad welds at the
0.5 wire speed (0-9 range) the graphic depicts.  I up the speed and it still
blows out, but at least the wire feeds.  The slow speed would not put out
wire dependably.  

The solution to that was to not try to make a bead, but to just put a bunch
or tacks all over the piece and then go back and put some more next to the
last ones.  Refer to cleaning the old slag above, and my attempts were more
successful.  That took a long time to figure out.  It also stopped the blow
outs, warpage and other troubles that build up of excess heat was causing.
Go slowly with lots of stitches from quick little spots of heat.  What I
also garnered from this learning curve was that the really hefty copper
welding heat sink could suck calories out of the work.  I do not have enough
hands to hold that and the gun, but it was eye opening.

I am fairly certain all this information was provided by Grant a week ago,
but seeing it with ones own eyes drives it home.  Much of my practice metal
has been dead computer cases.  It had a plethora of coatings, and even some
of the metal I picked up at the scrap store had a film.  For a very good end
product, you need a VERY clean work surface.  Initially, the wire wheel and
grinder elbow grease I applied was not enough to really give me a clean,
bare surface.  I thought it looked bare, but it was not.  SHINY metal is a
clean, bare surface.  No shine, not clean, no good welds will come.  All the
youtube videos and written explanations did not get that to sink in.  Seeing
it in action was the key.

The current steep learning curve involves welding sheet metal to a thicker L
bit.  The heavy L is rather solid and flat.  The body panels I need to tack
it and weld to are not so flat.  Gaps and uneven contact are not making for
a good weld.  I am still on the learning bench, not in actual car process.
The sheet metal is 18 gauge, the L is 1/8 to 3/16.  


clay 

2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately  well tailored chap
1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV POS 1987 SDL -
Beware Nigerian Scammers








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Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week

2015-06-14 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
When I was rebuilding Miller “buzz boxes” during tech school we used 1/2 steel 
plate scraps to test them out.  That stuff is fun to weld with a stick welder 
that puts out 400 amps.

Our fabrication guy used to win bar bets welding two pieces of aluminum foil 
together with a Miller wire feed welder.  The crazy bastard could do it, too.

Dan


 On Jun 14, 2015, at 4:41 PM, Greg Fiorentino via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 Cleaning the slag from a previous weld should be pretty easy using a welding
 hammer and a wire brush.  My experience welding was working as a
 steamfitter/rigger for about a year on a powerhouse job along the Hudson
 River (Roseton, NY)in the early 70s.  Also took a course at a tech school.
 I do ok with a stick machine for thicker material, but resort to brazing (or
 silver-solder) with a B tank and acetylene for the thinner stuff.  Less
 burn-through because of lower temps, neater joints, and just as strong if
 you use the correct rod.  Some alloys even wick nicely into tight joints.  I
 got my gear and materials cheap or free from my brother, who was selling
 high-tech welding supplies at the time.
 
 Greg
 


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Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week

2015-06-14 Thread Jim Cathey via Mercedes

Wire feed welders are nicknamed glue guns.  Clearly, HF
does not make one such.  Using the Miller on clean, reasonably
thick sheet metal, and I understand the nickname.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week

2015-06-14 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
Wasn't it Will Rodgers that said some people have to pee on the electric fence 
for themselves? Sounds like Clay has started peeing.
When he runs out of the rotten HF wire that EVERYBODY says sucks and gets some 
better stuff maybe he'll believe the rest of the world on that too.
-Curt
  From: Jim Cathey via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Cc: Jim Cathey jim.cathey...@gmail.com 
 Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 5:05 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week
   
Wire feed welders are nicknamed glue guns.  Clearly, HF
does not make one such.  Using the Miller on clean, reasonably
thick sheet metal, and I understand the nickname.

-- Jim




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Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week

2015-06-14 Thread clay via Mercedes
I actually read the destructions that came with the zapper.  I followed the set 
up to the letter and even made sure the wheels were in the proper orientation 
for the wire I was using.  There are no teeth to the wheels that would provide 
decent bite.  Just some knurling like you would find on a dime in the grooves.  
I have the tension adjusted almost to the point of strangling the wire.  It 
does not speed up or make the wire feed properly.

I am thinking the low speed setting is actually in Dummy mode.  Since there is 
no adjustment for heat, just speed, it could be a failsafe.   The lowest speeds 
must be regulated in such a manner that using it on thin sheet metal would not 
allow it to function long enough to burn through.  Maybe it is set to feed 
tacks so you do not overheat and warp.  Sort of forcing you to start and stop 
against your will.



clay 

2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately  well tailored chap
1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers








On Jun 14, 2015, at 5:03 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

 Just had a flash on something our new welder said in an earlier post about
 the wire not feeding consistantly..
 
 I've never been into the bowels of a Harbor Fright unit.. but there should
 be a tension adjustment on the wire feed motor. [everyone I've used to
 date did have one.] If that tension is loose, the wire will not feed
 exactly according to the magic number on the dial...
 
 Check that, why don't you.. And.. get a small roll of flux wire, not made
 in china.
 
 On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 3:00 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 Wasn't it Will Rodgers that said some people have to pee on the electric
 fence for themselves? Sounds like Clay has started peeing.
 When he runs out of the rotten HF wire that EVERYBODY says sucks and gets
 some better stuff maybe he'll believe the rest of the world on that too.
 -Curt
  From: Jim Cathey via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Cc: Jim Cathey jim.cathey...@gmail.com
 Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 5:05 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week
 
 Wire feed welders are nicknamed glue guns.  Clearly, HF
 does not make one such.  Using the Miller on clean, reasonably
 thick sheet metal, and I understand the nickname.
 
 -- Jim
 
 
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week

2015-06-14 Thread G Mann via Mercedes
Just had a flash on something our new welder said in an earlier post about
the wire not feeding consistantly..

I've never been into the bowels of a Harbor Fright unit.. but there should
be a tension adjustment on the wire feed motor. [everyone I've used to
date did have one.] If that tension is loose, the wire will not feed
exactly according to the magic number on the dial...

Check that, why don't you.. And.. get a small roll of flux wire, not made
in china.

On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 3:00 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Wasn't it Will Rodgers that said some people have to pee on the electric
 fence for themselves? Sounds like Clay has started peeing.
 When he runs out of the rotten HF wire that EVERYBODY says sucks and gets
 some better stuff maybe he'll believe the rest of the world on that too.
 -Curt
   From: Jim Cathey via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
  To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Cc: Jim Cathey jim.cathey...@gmail.com
  Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 5:05 PM
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week

 Wire feed welders are nicknamed glue guns.  Clearly, HF
 does not make one such.  Using the Miller on clean, reasonably
 thick sheet metal, and I understand the nickname.

 -- Jim




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Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week

2015-06-14 Thread OK Don via Mercedes
We had a contractor build a 14x28' steel patio cover last year. For some
reason they needed a new welder, and the contractor brought a new HF unit.
The welder spend about an hour trying to get it to work correctly, then
called the contractor and read him the riot act. A new Lincoln unit from
Lowes arrived, and the welder was a happy man. The job looks good as well.
You get what you pay for.
Yes, Curt - read my tag line . . .

On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 7:03 PM, G Mann via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
wrote:

 Just had a flash on something our new welder said in an earlier post about
 the wire not feeding consistantly..

 I've never been into the bowels of a Harbor Fright unit.. but there should
 be a tension adjustment on the wire feed motor. [everyone I've used to
 date did have one.] If that tension is loose, the wire will not feed
 exactly according to the magic number on the dial...

 Check that, why don't you.. And.. get a small roll of flux wire, not made
 in china.




-- 
OK Don

NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves.

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week

2015-06-14 Thread G Mann via Mercedes
Question I failed to ask:

What diameter wire are you using? .020, .030 or .035 ?

To use the .020 wire, you will need to change the wheel gap adjustment to
fit the smaller wire AND change the wire guide in the business end of the
torch to fit the smaller wire.

Smaller wire will give you a hotter, smaller weld puddle, so you will need
to change your speed of torch movement to adapt. However, with smaller
wire, you should get a weld puddle that is more correct size for thinner
sheet metal. If you have an amperage adjustment, crank it down for the
smaller wire.

Again, do spot welds, Hammer and dolly the welds while still red, which
will flatten the weld joint and make better contact, thus better welds..
Your tack weld should be 1/8 to 1/4 inch long, so as you work the panel
into position [tack on one side.. hammer/dolly to flatten tack the
other side .. hammer/dolly to flatten.. As you work around the repair..
soon you have the patch contained with the weld joint overlap nice and
flat from hammer / dolly and on the second pass.. instead of tack welds 4
inches apart.. go in between the 4 inch tacks.. same routine.. so on second
pass you have a tack ever 2 inches.. repeat as necessary..

Soon you have a good repair.

On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 6:26 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
wrote:

 I actually read the destructions that came with the zapper.  I followed
 the set up to the letter and even made sure the wheels were in the proper
 orientation for the wire I was using.  There are no teeth to the wheels
 that would provide decent bite.  Just some knurling like you would find on
 a dime in the grooves.  I have the tension adjusted almost to the point of
 strangling the wire.  It does not speed up or make the wire feed properly.

 I am thinking the low speed setting is actually in Dummy mode.  Since
 there is no adjustment for heat, just speed, it could be a failsafe.   The
 lowest speeds must be regulated in such a manner that using it on thin
 sheet metal would not allow it to function long enough to burn through.
 Maybe it is set to feed tacks so you do not overheat and warp.  Sort of
 forcing you to start and stop against your will.



 clay

 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately  well tailored chap
 1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
 1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
 POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers








 On Jun 14, 2015, at 5:03 PM, G Mann via Mercedes wrote:

  Just had a flash on something our new welder said in an earlier post
 about
  the wire not feeding consistantly..
 
  I've never been into the bowels of a Harbor Fright unit.. but there
 should
  be a tension adjustment on the wire feed motor. [everyone I've used to
  date did have one.] If that tension is loose, the wire will not feed
  exactly according to the magic number on the dial...
 
  Check that, why don't you.. And.. get a small roll of flux wire, not made
  in china.
 
  On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 3:00 PM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes 
  mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
  Wasn't it Will Rodgers that said some people have to pee on the electric
  fence for themselves? Sounds like Clay has started peeing.
  When he runs out of the rotten HF wire that EVERYBODY says sucks and
 gets
  some better stuff maybe he'll believe the rest of the world on that too.
  -Curt
   From: Jim Cathey via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
  To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
  Cc: Jim Cathey jim.cathey...@gmail.com
  Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 5:05 PM
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week
 
  Wire feed welders are nicknamed glue guns.  Clearly, HF
  does not make one such.  Using the Miller on clean, reasonably
  thick sheet metal, and I understand the nickname.
 
  -- Jim
 
 
 
 
  ___
  http://www.okiebenz.com
 
  To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
  http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] Wut I dun Lernt frum Wulding this week

2015-06-14 Thread G Mann via Mercedes
Good report on your progress.

Welding 1/8th stock [.125 thousands thick] to 18 gage [55. thousands
thick] is a serious challenge for beginner..

The first problem you will have is to get enough weld heat on the .125
stock to penetrate without destroying the 55. material with that much
heat.

Now it's time for development of hand eye coordination.. Start the arc on
the heavy material first, then flow the weld puddle into the light
material, then get out of the weld..
Good contact between the heavy metal and the light metal is absolutely
critical. If there is a gap... you will stay in the weld joint to long
trying to stack up liquid metal to fill the gap.. which will heat transfer
to the lighter metal and burn through it.. quickly.

Set up some practice pieces with the thicknesses and work with them.. it
will come to you.


On Sun, Jun 14, 2015 at 1:19 PM, clay via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
wrote:

 It has been a week of dragging my butt outside in the heat and playing
 with the flux core welding gun.  In that time I have gained some
 perspective on just how much work making a decent weld is.

 At first I was just banging about with the gun and burning through wire
 and sheet metal.  It was really nasty, but I got a feel for the machine and
 the gun.  Having the old brake rotor to play with allowed me to get
 comfortable that I could lay down a good bead, but it seemed only on a
 heavy bit of iron, not something thin, like what I need to know so I can
 repair the rusted and rotted out floors in the 300D.  SO, zapping thick
 metal is eazy peezy and most any monkey can do that.

 I also found that flux core is not good to try to start and stop.  It took
 me a bit to understand that the slag and cruft impedes a good weld, so you
 need to clean the prior muck before you go at it again.  Getting it back to
 bare metal would let the new bead adhere and flow instead of spattering out
 pellet of micro death all over the world.  Flux is great for outdoor work,
 which the car repair will be.  No need to worry the wind is blowing my
 shielding gas away and the air flow also will make the toxic fumes move
 away from the work.  That is a plus.

 The HF welding toy is very basic and binary.  You have either BIG amp or
 small amp button and a spastic wire feed control.  The little graphic under
 the hood tells you if you need BIG or small and what wire speed for what
 thickness of metal.  It lies and is very optimistic when dealing with thin
 sheet metal.  At least if you expect to be laying down a continuous bead.
 I could not keep from blowing through the metal and having bad welds at the
 0.5 wire speed (0-9 range) the graphic depicts.  I up the speed and it
 still blows out, but at least the wire feeds.  The slow speed would not put
 out wire dependably.

 The solution to that was to not try to make a bead, but to just put a
 bunch or tacks all over the piece and then go back and put some more next
 to the last ones.  Refer to cleaning the old slag above, and my attempts
 were more successful.  That took a long time to figure out.  It also
 stopped the blow outs, warpage and other troubles that build up of excess
 heat was causing.  Go slowly with lots of stitches from quick little spots
 of heat.  What I also garnered from this learning curve was that the really
 hefty copper welding heat sink could suck calories out of the work.  I do
 not have enough hands to hold that and the gun, but it was eye opening.

 I am fairly certain all this information was provided by Grant a week ago,
 but seeing it with ones own eyes drives it home.  Much of my practice metal
 has been dead computer cases.  It had a plethora of coatings, and even some
 of the metal I picked up at the scrap store had a film.  For a very good
 end product, you need a VERY clean work surface.  Initially, the wire wheel
 and grinder elbow grease I applied was not enough to really give me a
 clean, bare surface.  I thought it looked bare, but it was not.  SHINY
 metal is a clean, bare surface.  No shine, not clean, no good welds will
 come.  All the youtube videos and written explanations did not get that to
 sink in.  Seeing it in action was the key.

 The current steep learning curve involves welding sheet metal to a thicker
 L bit.  The heavy L is rather solid and flat.  The body panels I need to
 tack it and weld to are not so flat.  Gaps and uneven contact are not
 making for a good weld.  I am still on the learning bench, not in actual
 car process.  The sheet metal is 18 gauge, the L is 1/8 to 3/16.


 clay

 2002 s430 - Victor, a Stately  well tailored chap
 1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
 1976 300D - Blei Vanst - it looks silvery
 1972 220D - Gump - She was green, simple and ran
 1995 E300D - Gave her life to save me against a Dame in a SUV
 POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers








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