Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-17 Thread Meade Dillon via Mercedes
Nice score!  I've got a 3 inch 12v fan from an old UPS that I'm going to
re-purpose as a ventilation fan, solar powered, in my sailboat.  It draws
some very small current, I'm thinking it is 25 mA or so.  Planning to put a
50W panel on a controller to both charge the boat's deep cycle battery and
run the fan, with a fan cut-off at 12.5 volts or so.

If I had one of those big fans it would be mo-better, but I'd have to
fabricate a new hatch and install that fan in the hatch, with some type of
weather cover to keep the rain out.
-
Max
Charleston SC


On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 1:35 PM Jim Cathey via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Speaking of fans for wood stoves, I was at the thrift shop yesterday and
> found
> two 8" 12V fans.  I bought them, and they're extremely quiet.  9 blades on
> them,
> they look like submarine propellers.  They draw about 160mA each at 12V,
> and
> blow a nice amount of air.  If these were on our wood stove I doubt we'd
> notice
> them much, if at all.  Rosewill DF2003012SEMN, China.
>
> Direct 12V fans are going to be very much more power-efficient than running
> an inverter off of a battery to drive an AC fan.  One of these Rosewill
> fans on a
> typical 110AH deep-cycle battery would run for two weeks straight without
> taking
> it below 50%.
>
> -- Jim
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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>
>
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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-17 Thread Jim Cathey via Mercedes
Speaking of fans for wood stoves, I was at the thrift shop yesterday and found
two 8" 12V fans.  I bought them, and they're extremely quiet.  9 blades on them,
they look like submarine propellers.  They draw about 160mA each at 12V, and
blow a nice amount of air.  If these were on our wood stove I doubt we'd notice
them much, if at all.  Rosewill DF2003012SEMN, China.

Direct 12V fans are going to be very much more power-efficient than running
an inverter off of a battery to drive an AC fan.  One of these Rosewill fans on 
a
typical 110AH deep-cycle battery would run for two weeks straight without taking
it below 50%.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-17 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
 That's good news. I know people love the Honda units but I can't bear the 
price for the amount it would get used...
-Curt

On Wednesday, February 17, 2021, 1:15:27 AM EST, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 I bought one of those 2KW inverter units from Harbor Freight a few years back: 
 

https://www.harborfreight.com/engines-generators/gasoline-generators/2000-watt-super-quiet-inverter-generator-62523.html

I got it on sale for $450.  It's fairly quiet and it has a low power mode that 
is even quieter.  It has started reliably so far.  It is portable but I would 
not like to carry it far.  You need to remove a side panel (tools required) to 
check or change oil.  Some of the other maintenance is odd, like a spark plug 
buried deep inside.  Overall, it has served me well but I don't have many hours 
on it.

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Curt Raymond via Mercedes
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 11:59 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Cc: Curt Raymond 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

 I've got a 1200w 2 stroke generator that has never been used "in anger". It 
outputs 12v also which can be handy.It would be super useful for you now as it 
would easily run your blower and just sip fuel. Its supposed to run 8 hours at 
half load on 1 gallon of gas.
A Honda 2000w would be better but also would be 5x the cost and considering 
I've never really needed mine I can't justify it.I have considered the Harbor 
Freight copy to have at camp. When we were up there last July it was stiflingly 
hot. Dad wants to get a small air conditioner but the 3000w "Champion" 
generator we have now is quite loud.Google suggests that a 5000BTU aircon needs 
550w/hr so the small "super quiet" generator from Harbor Freight would do the 
job easily. We've got 500 or so sqft. of camp. It wouldn't make ice cubes 
inside but would certainly take the edge off.
-Curt



    On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:49:02 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Nope it’s all contained in the original brick chimney. I closed the doors on 
it and will see what happens

I really need to look into a generator or some sort. 



Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:43 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> 
> The doors will probably make more heat, you're losing it up the chimney 
> because its getting too much air.
> 
> I've got a thermometer on the stove pipe and I'm always interested in the 
> fact that maximum heat is NOT achieved with maximum air. You've got to run a 
> lot of air to get the fire going and to get the stove/chimney warm but then 
> you need to restrict air some to get max heat. I don't completely understand 
> why but its a fact, at least in my stove. Some of the heat has to go into the 
> chimney, otherwise you won't be able to maintain good draft. Outside chimneys 
> might look cool but they suck for actually burning wood.
> 
> Do you have a pipe coming out of yours you can put a magnetic stove 
> thermometer on? Without one you'll produce less heat and burn way more wood 
> since you don't really know whats happening.
> 
> -Curt
> 
> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:36:05 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Got the fire going. Of course it will take a while to start putting off some 
> heat. Without the doors closed and the blower going, it seems like it’s 
> probably operating like a regular fireplace with most of the heat going ok 
> the chimney. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:07 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Some of those units do pretty amazing things in the cold these days. 10-15 
> > years ago 20F was the practical minimum but I've read of units that will 
> > still work down to 0F and there are some that probably go colder. I suspect 
> > efficiency takes a dump at those temps though.
> > 
> > The guy I'm training to run the groomer is an HVAC installer and the other 
> > night he was telling me that just about nobody is installing ground source 
> > heat pumps any more due to the huge cost and the availability of low temp 
> > air source units combined with the low cost of natural gas.
> > 
> > I'd considered ground source but the ones I've looked at are $20,000+ while 
> > a new boiler for our house is more like $6,000 and would decrease our oil 
> > use 20-25%. It would take a long long time to pay off that extra cost. 
> > There are incentives but they're decreasing every year.
> > 
> > -Curt
> > 
> > On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 10:46:10 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > I don’t know if size matters but it’s a 5 ton unit and even when it was in 
> > the single digest I could tell it was putting out hea

Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-16 Thread Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
I bought one of those 2KW inverter units from Harbor Freight a few years back:  

https://www.harborfreight.com/engines-generators/gasoline-generators/2000-watt-super-quiet-inverter-generator-62523.html

I got it on sale for $450.  It's fairly quiet and it has a low power mode that 
is even quieter.  It has started reliably so far.  It is portable but I would 
not like to carry it far.  You need to remove a side panel (tools required) to 
check or change oil.  Some of the other maintenance is odd, like a spark plug 
buried deep inside.  Overall, it has served me well but I don't have many hours 
on it.

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Curt Raymond via Mercedes
Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 11:59 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List 
Cc: Curt Raymond 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

 I've got a 1200w 2 stroke generator that has never been used "in anger". It 
outputs 12v also which can be handy.It would be super useful for you now as it 
would easily run your blower and just sip fuel. Its supposed to run 8 hours at 
half load on 1 gallon of gas.
A Honda 2000w would be better but also would be 5x the cost and considering 
I've never really needed mine I can't justify it.I have considered the Harbor 
Freight copy to have at camp. When we were up there last July it was stiflingly 
hot. Dad wants to get a small air conditioner but the 3000w "Champion" 
generator we have now is quite loud.Google suggests that a 5000BTU aircon needs 
550w/hr so the small "super quiet" generator from Harbor Freight would do the 
job easily. We've got 500 or so sqft. of camp. It wouldn't make ice cubes 
inside but would certainly take the edge off.
-Curt



On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:49:02 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Nope it’s all contained in the original brick chimney. I closed the doors on 
it and will see what happens

I really need to look into a generator or some sort. 



Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:43 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> 
> The doors will probably make more heat, you're losing it up the chimney 
> because its getting too much air.
> 
> I've got a thermometer on the stove pipe and I'm always interested in the 
> fact that maximum heat is NOT achieved with maximum air. You've got to run a 
> lot of air to get the fire going and to get the stove/chimney warm but then 
> you need to restrict air some to get max heat. I don't completely understand 
> why but its a fact, at least in my stove. Some of the heat has to go into the 
> chimney, otherwise you won't be able to maintain good draft. Outside chimneys 
> might look cool but they suck for actually burning wood.
> 
> Do you have a pipe coming out of yours you can put a magnetic stove 
> thermometer on? Without one you'll produce less heat and burn way more wood 
> since you don't really know whats happening.
> 
> -Curt
> 
> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:36:05 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Got the fire going. Of course it will take a while to start putting off some 
> heat. Without the doors closed and the blower going, it seems like it’s 
> probably operating like a regular fireplace with most of the heat going ok 
> the chimney. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:07 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Some of those units do pretty amazing things in the cold these days. 10-15 
> > years ago 20F was the practical minimum but I've read of units that will 
> > still work down to 0F and there are some that probably go colder. I suspect 
> > efficiency takes a dump at those temps though.
> > 
> > The guy I'm training to run the groomer is an HVAC installer and the other 
> > night he was telling me that just about nobody is installing ground source 
> > heat pumps any more due to the huge cost and the availability of low temp 
> > air source units combined with the low cost of natural gas.
> > 
> > I'd considered ground source but the ones I've looked at are $20,000+ while 
> > a new boiler for our house is more like $6,000 and would decrease our oil 
> > use 20-25%. It would take a long long time to pay off that extra cost. 
> > There are incentives but they're decreasing every year.
> > 
> > -Curt
> > 
> > On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 10:46:10 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > I don’t know if size matters but it’s a 5 ton unit and even when it was in 
> > the single digest I could tell it was putting out heat. I could tell the 
> > difference between when the outside unit was running and when it was shut 
> > down and only using the aux heat.
> > 
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > 
> > > On Feb 16, 

Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-16 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
 Oh, there isn't a space between the  end of my link and the next 
word.https://lanternnet.com/product/dietz-10-monarch-hot-blast-lantern/
I'll try two spaces this time. The list serv and Yahoo mail don't really get 
along. The list serv strips out most of my formatting.
Any of those lanterns will probably do the job. Sometimes when its cold here 
and I don't want to run the electric heater I'll fire up an Aladdin or my B 
circular wick lamp. They make nice heat.
-Curt

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 6:18:50 PM EST, OK Don via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Like this one? Might keep an 8X8X8 well house above freezing with -10°F
temps? Your like went to a 30W incandescent bulb:
https://lanternnet.com/product/dietz-80-blizzard-cold-blast-lantern/


On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 3:04 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>  A look at Craigslist/yard sales/flea markets will yield loads of these
> tubular lanterns.
>
> Jim's link is a cold blast version, the doodad at the top takes air from
> outside, funnels it down those tubes where it gets to the flame. Cold blast
> lanterns make the most light for fuel volume in the flat wick lantern
> family.
>
> Alternately:
> https://lanternnet.com/product/dietz-10-monarch-hot-blast-lantern/That's
> a hot blast lantern, no doodad at the top, it recaptures a portion of the
> gasses coming from the burner and sends them back to the flame to be burned
> again. A hot blast lantern makes less light but uses less fuel since
> there's a little bit of unburned fuel in the output of the burner. Hot
> blast lanterns tend to burn longer per unit of fuel but put off less light.
> They also tend to make less smell if that's a consideration in your
> situation.
>
> For max light in a silent lamp you want:
> https://lanternnet.com/product/w-t-kirkman-ramona-table-lamp-w-500-aladdin-burner/
> which is a round wick lamp, the wick is a tube. On this one the wick heats
> a mantle for more light output. Probably not all that useful for the well
> house though, and kinda spendy.
> -Curt
>
>    On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 2:01:37 PM EST, Jim Cathey via Mercedes
>  wrote:
>
>  > I need a kerosene lamp - what/where do I get one? Recommendations
> please.
>
> What about:
> https://www.redhillgeneralstore.com/Oil-Lanterns/Camping-Oil-Lantern.htm?color=red
> <
> https://www.redhillgeneralstore.com/Oil-Lanterns/Camping-Oil-Lantern.htm?color=red
> >
>
> 45 hour burn time.
>
> -- Jim
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-16 Thread OK Don via Mercedes
Got the hot/cold blasts confused. This one is hot -
https://lanternnet.com/product/dietz-10-monarch-hot-blast-lantern/

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 5:17 PM OK Don  wrote:

> Like this one? Might keep an 8X8X8 well house above freezing with -10°F
> temps? Your like went to a 30W incandescent bulb:
> https://lanternnet.com/product/dietz-80-blizzard-cold-blast-lantern/
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 3:04 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>
>>  A look at Craigslist/yard sales/flea markets will yield loads of these
>> tubular lanterns.
>>
>> Jim's link is a cold blast version, the doodad at the top takes air from
>> outside, funnels it down those tubes where it gets to the flame. Cold blast
>> lanterns make the most light for fuel volume in the flat wick lantern
>> family.
>>
>> Alternately:
>> https://lanternnet.com/product/dietz-10-monarch-hot-blast-lantern/That's
>> a hot blast lantern, no doodad at the top, it recaptures a portion of the
>> gasses coming from the burner and sends them back to the flame to be burned
>> again. A hot blast lantern makes less light but uses less fuel since
>> there's a little bit of unburned fuel in the output of the burner. Hot
>> blast lanterns tend to burn longer per unit of fuel but put off less light.
>> They also tend to make less smell if that's a consideration in your
>> situation.
>>
>> For max light in a silent lamp you want:
>> https://lanternnet.com/product/w-t-kirkman-ramona-table-lamp-w-500-aladdin-burner/
>> which is a round wick lamp, the wick is a tube. On this one the wick heats
>> a mantle for more light output. Probably not all that useful for the well
>> house though, and kinda spendy.
>> -Curt
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 2:01:37 PM EST, Jim Cathey via
>> Mercedes  wrote:
>>
>>  > I need a kerosene lamp - what/where do I get one? Recommendations
>> please.
>>
>> What about:
>> https://www.redhillgeneralstore.com/Oil-Lanterns/Camping-Oil-Lantern.htm?color=red
>> <
>> https://www.redhillgeneralstore.com/Oil-Lanterns/Camping-Oil-Lantern.htm?color=red
>> >
>>
>> 45 hour burn time.
>>
>> -- Jim
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>>
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>>
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>>
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>>
>>
>
> --
> OK Don
>
> "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
> pause and reflect." Mark Twain
>
> “Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
> Von Braun
> 2013 F150, 18 mpg
> 2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
> 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
>


-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
___
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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-16 Thread OK Don via Mercedes
Like this one? Might keep an 8X8X8 well house above freezing with -10°F
temps? Your like went to a 30W incandescent bulb:
https://lanternnet.com/product/dietz-80-blizzard-cold-blast-lantern/


On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 3:04 PM Curt Raymond via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

>  A look at Craigslist/yard sales/flea markets will yield loads of these
> tubular lanterns.
>
> Jim's link is a cold blast version, the doodad at the top takes air from
> outside, funnels it down those tubes where it gets to the flame. Cold blast
> lanterns make the most light for fuel volume in the flat wick lantern
> family.
>
> Alternately:
> https://lanternnet.com/product/dietz-10-monarch-hot-blast-lantern/That's
> a hot blast lantern, no doodad at the top, it recaptures a portion of the
> gasses coming from the burner and sends them back to the flame to be burned
> again. A hot blast lantern makes less light but uses less fuel since
> there's a little bit of unburned fuel in the output of the burner. Hot
> blast lanterns tend to burn longer per unit of fuel but put off less light.
> They also tend to make less smell if that's a consideration in your
> situation.
>
> For max light in a silent lamp you want:
> https://lanternnet.com/product/w-t-kirkman-ramona-table-lamp-w-500-aladdin-burner/
> which is a round wick lamp, the wick is a tube. On this one the wick heats
> a mantle for more light output. Probably not all that useful for the well
> house though, and kinda spendy.
> -Curt
>
> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 2:01:37 PM EST, Jim Cathey via Mercedes
>  wrote:
>
>  > I need a kerosene lamp - what/where do I get one? Recommendations
> please.
>
> What about:
> https://www.redhillgeneralstore.com/Oil-Lanterns/Camping-Oil-Lantern.htm?color=red
> <
> https://www.redhillgeneralstore.com/Oil-Lanterns/Camping-Oil-Lantern.htm?color=red
> >
>
> 45 hour burn time.
>
> -- Jim
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>
>

-- 
OK Don

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to
pause and reflect." Mark Twain

“Basic research is what I’m doing when I don’t know what I am doing.”  Wernher
Von Braun
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2017 Subaru Legacy, 30 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
___
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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-16 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
 A look at Craigslist/yard sales/flea markets will yield loads of these tubular 
lanterns.

Jim's link is a cold blast version, the doodad at the top takes air from 
outside, funnels it down those tubes where it gets to the flame. Cold blast 
lanterns make the most light for fuel volume in the flat wick lantern family.

Alternately: 
https://lanternnet.com/product/dietz-10-monarch-hot-blast-lantern/That's a hot 
blast lantern, no doodad at the top, it recaptures a portion of the gasses 
coming from the burner and sends them back to the flame to be burned again. A 
hot blast lantern makes less light but uses less fuel since there's a little 
bit of unburned fuel in the output of the burner. Hot blast lanterns tend to 
burn longer per unit of fuel but put off less light. They also tend to make 
less smell if that's a consideration in your situation.

For max light in a silent lamp you want: 
https://lanternnet.com/product/w-t-kirkman-ramona-table-lamp-w-500-aladdin-burner/
 which is a round wick lamp, the wick is a tube. On this one the wick heats a 
mantle for more light output. Probably not all that useful for the well house 
though, and kinda spendy.
-Curt

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 2:01:37 PM EST, Jim Cathey via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 > I need a kerosene lamp - what/where do I get one? Recommendations please.

What about: 
https://www.redhillgeneralstore.com/Oil-Lanterns/Camping-Oil-Lantern.htm?color=red
 


45 hour burn time.

-- Jim

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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-16 Thread Floyd Thursby via Mercedes
Well you don't need to worry about food in the fridge going bad, just 
put it in boxes outside or on the porch.


Get one of those little 2 stroke generators from HF, they are like $90 
and will run your blowers fine.  They are quite handy too to keep in the 
truck to run a tool or air pump or something, you just need to run them 
every week or two or they get hard to start.


But a bigger generator would be good to have, you probably have to worry 
about tornadoes there that can knock out power for some extended time.


--FT

On 2/16/21 11:48 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:

I really need to look into a generator or some sort.


--
--FT

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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-16 Thread Jim Cathey via Mercedes
> I need a kerosene lamp - what/where do I get one? Recommendations please.

What about: 
https://www.redhillgeneralstore.com/Oil-Lanterns/Camping-Oil-Lantern.htm?color=red
 


45 hour burn time.

-- Jim

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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-16 Thread Allan Streib via Mercedes
Jim Cathey via Mercedes  writes:

>> I worry most about the well house freezing up - lots of pipe and two large
>> water filters in there. We keep it above freezing with those 500W IR heat
>> lamps, two for backup, but when there's no power ...
>
> Kerosene lamp.

Or even candles, assuming you can place them where they won't set
anything else on fire.

Allan

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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-16 Thread Jim Cathey via Mercedes
> I worry most about the well house freezing up - lots of pipe and two large
> water filters in there. We keep it above freezing with those 500W IR heat
> lamps, two for backup, but when there's no power ...

Kerosene lamp.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-16 Thread Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
I was just thinking about that. I have a clamp on inverter around here 
somewhere. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 12:03 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> Is the blower 120V? If so, use an inverter and a car battery to run it. If
> not 120V, use a 12V computer fan like Jim said. Zip tie it in front of the
> intake for the blower.
> 
> Our power was off for an hour this morning, since it was almost exactly an
> hour I assume it was a rolling blackout. It came back on in 3 spurts, but
> has stayed on now for over 3 hours.
> 
> I worry most about the well house freezing up - lots of pipe and two large
> water filters in there. We keep it above freezing with those 500W IR heat
> lamps, two for backup, but when there's no power ...
> 
>> On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 11:40 AM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>> It’s good and hot now. Fire going good, top of it is hot but unfortunately
>> without the blower it does not push much heat into the room. It’s now down
>> to 58 in here  by the maybe it’s putting off enough heat to keep it from
>> dropping faster than without it.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
 On Feb 16, 2021, at 11:02 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Every year I go through a period of relearning how to get maximum output
>> from the stove. There are a couple rules but its really more an art than a
>> science. The quality of the wood makes a big difference as does outside
>> temps and, to a lesser degree, even wind speed and direction.
>>> 
>>> -Curt
>>> 
>>> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:54:32 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via
>> Mercedes  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> It’s got an air control on each side, I can’t remember if they are
>> pushed in or pulled out to open are flow into it. They were pushed in and
>> it seemed like the fire was dying down with the doors closed so I pulled
>> them out. As I said it’s been a while since I have used this thing.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:49 AM, Kaleb Striplin 
>> wrote:
 
 Nope it’s all contained in the original brick chimney. I closed the
>> doors on it and will see what happens
 
 I really need to look into a generator or some sort.
 
 
>>> 
 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
>> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:43 AM, Curt Raymond 
>> wrote:
>> 
> 
> The doors will probably make more heat, you're losing it up the
>> chimney because its getting too much air.
> 
> I've got a thermometer on the stove pipe and I'm always interested in
>> the fact that maximum heat is NOT achieved with maximum air. You've got to
>> run a lot of air to get the fire going and to get the stove/chimney warm
>> but then you need to restrict air some to get max heat. I don't completely
>> understand why but its a fact, at least in my stove. Some of the heat has
>> to go into the chimney, otherwise you won't be able to maintain good draft.
>> Outside chimneys might look cool but they suck for actually burning wood.
> 
> Do you have a pipe coming out of yours you can put a magnetic stove
>> thermometer on? Without one you'll produce less heat and burn way more wood
>> since you don't really know whats happening.
> 
> -Curt
> 
> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:36:05 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via
>> Mercedes  wrote:
> 
> 
> Got the fire going. Of course it will take a while to start putting
>> off some heat. Without the doors closed and the blower going, it seems like
>> it’s probably operating like a regular fireplace with most of the heat
>> going ok the chimney.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:07 AM, Curt Raymond 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Some of those units do pretty amazing things in the cold these
>> days. 10-15 years ago 20F was the practical minimum but I've read of units
>> that will still work down to 0F and there are some that probably go colder.
>> I suspect efficiency takes a dump at those temps though.
>> 
>> The guy I'm training to run the groomer is an HVAC installer and
>> the other night he was telling me that just about nobody is installing
>> ground source heat pumps any more due to the huge cost and the availability
>> of low temp air source units combined with the low cost of natural gas.
>> 
>> I'd considered ground source but the ones I've looked at are
>> $20,000+ while a new boiler for our house is more like $6,000 and would
>> decrease our oil use 20-25%. It would take a long long time to pay off that
>> extra cost. There are incentives but they're decreasing every year.
>> 
>> -Curt
>> 
>> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 10:46:10 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via
>> Mercedes  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I don’t know if size matters but it’s a 5 ton unit and even when it
>> was in the single digest I could tell it was putting out heat. I could tell
>> the difference between when the outside unit was running and when 

Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-16 Thread OK Don via Mercedes
Is the blower 120V? If so, use an inverter and a car battery to run it. If
not 120V, use a 12V computer fan like Jim said. Zip tie it in front of the
intake for the blower.

Our power was off for an hour this morning, since it was almost exactly an
hour I assume it was a rolling blackout. It came back on in 3 spurts, but
has stayed on now for over 3 hours.

I worry most about the well house freezing up - lots of pipe and two large
water filters in there. We keep it above freezing with those 500W IR heat
lamps, two for backup, but when there's no power ...

On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 11:40 AM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> It’s good and hot now. Fire going good, top of it is hot but unfortunately
> without the blower it does not push much heat into the room. It’s now down
> to 58 in here  by the maybe it’s putting off enough heat to keep it from
> dropping faster than without it.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 11:02 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> >
> > 
> > Every year I go through a period of relearning how to get maximum output
> from the stove. There are a couple rules but its really more an art than a
> science. The quality of the wood makes a big difference as does outside
> temps and, to a lesser degree, even wind speed and direction.
> >
> > -Curt
> >
> > On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:54:32 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via
> Mercedes  wrote:
> >
> >
> > It’s got an air control on each side, I can’t remember if they are
> pushed in or pulled out to open are flow into it. They were pushed in and
> it seemed like the fire was dying down with the doors closed so I pulled
> them out. As I said it’s been a while since I have used this thing.
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > > On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:49 AM, Kaleb Striplin 
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Nope it’s all contained in the original brick chimney. I closed the
> doors on it and will see what happens
> > >
> > > I really need to look into a generator or some sort.
> > >
> > > 
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > >>> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:43 AM, Curt Raymond 
> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >> 
> > >> The doors will probably make more heat, you're losing it up the
> chimney because its getting too much air.
> > >>
> > >> I've got a thermometer on the stove pipe and I'm always interested in
> the fact that maximum heat is NOT achieved with maximum air. You've got to
> run a lot of air to get the fire going and to get the stove/chimney warm
> but then you need to restrict air some to get max heat. I don't completely
> understand why but its a fact, at least in my stove. Some of the heat has
> to go into the chimney, otherwise you won't be able to maintain good draft.
> Outside chimneys might look cool but they suck for actually burning wood.
> > >>
> > >> Do you have a pipe coming out of yours you can put a magnetic stove
> thermometer on? Without one you'll produce less heat and burn way more wood
> since you don't really know whats happening.
> > >>
> > >> -Curt
> > >>
> > >> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:36:05 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via
> Mercedes  wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Got the fire going. Of course it will take a while to start putting
> off some heat. Without the doors closed and the blower going, it seems like
> it’s probably operating like a regular fireplace with most of the heat
> going ok the chimney.
> > >>
> > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > >>
> > >> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:07 AM, Curt Raymond 
> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > 
> > >> > Some of those units do pretty amazing things in the cold these
> days. 10-15 years ago 20F was the practical minimum but I've read of units
> that will still work down to 0F and there are some that probably go colder.
> I suspect efficiency takes a dump at those temps though.
> > >> >
> > >> > The guy I'm training to run the groomer is an HVAC installer and
> the other night he was telling me that just about nobody is installing
> ground source heat pumps any more due to the huge cost and the availability
> of low temp air source units combined with the low cost of natural gas.
> > >> >
> > >> > I'd considered ground source but the ones I've looked at are
> $20,000+ while a new boiler for our house is more like $6,000 and would
> decrease our oil use 20-25%. It would take a long long time to pay off that
> extra cost. There are incentives but they're decreasing every year.
> > >> >
> > >> > -Curt
> > >> >
> > >> > On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 10:46:10 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via
> Mercedes  wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > I don’t know if size matters but it’s a 5 ton unit and even when it
> was in the single digest I could tell it was putting out heat. I could tell
> the difference between when the outside unit was running and when it was
> shut down and only using the aux heat.
> > >> >
> > >> > Sent from my iPhone
> > >> >
> > >> > > On Feb 16, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > 

Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-16 Thread Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
I think for now I at least need to get some sort of portable generator. Worse 
case I could have run an extension cord into the house to run the thing. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 11:52 AM, Jim Cathey  wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> an insert with a blower but I guess it will still out out some heat without 
>> the blower.
> 
> No, not much.  Better than nothing, but not by much.  Add a 12V computer fan 
> and a car
> battery to the mix and you'd actually get some heat out of it.  The heating 
> units designed
> for forced air just don't do much by natural convection.  They can keep their 
> own fires
> going, but most of the heat just doesn't get out into the room.
> 
> -- Jim
> 


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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-16 Thread Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
Power just came back on, for now. Plugged the blower in and she is throwing out 
a lot of heat. Also the heat pump kicked back on, outside unit and all. It’s 
now up to 6 outside and those instructions said when it got above 5 the lockout 
should end so I guess it was just doing what it was supposed to do. 

Since I have this fire going I’m probably going to keep feeding it. In fact 
this pile of wood I have out back is probably about 5 years old. Maybe I should 
just go ahead and use it all up this year and get fresh wood next year. I don’t 
want it to completely rot and go to waste. 
I also have lots from a a huge tree that blew down at the other house I cut up. 
Just need to split it. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 11:44 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> 
> It takes awhile for the stove and chimney to heat up to the point you really 
> radiate heat.
> The stove we have at camp (An "All Nighter" which is a copy of a Fisher) has 
> around 100# of firebrick inside. The first hour its lit from cold you're just 
> heating the stove, after that you start to heat the room. The stove stays hot 
> for hours after it goes out though. It's annoying when you first get to camp 
> and the place is freezing cold and the stove isn't helping. We've got a Big 
> Buddy propane heater on hand just for those sort of times. By the time its 
> burned through 2x 1# propane cans the stove is starting to radiate heat.
> 
> -Curt
> 
> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 12:40:35 PM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> It’s good and hot now. Fire going good, top of it is hot but unfortunately 
> without the blower it does not push much heat into the room. It’s now down to 
> 58 in here  by the maybe it’s putting off enough heat to keep it from 
> dropping faster than without it. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 11:02 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Every year I go through a period of relearning how to get maximum output 
> > from the stove. There are a couple rules but its really more an art than a 
> > science. The quality of the wood makes a big difference as does outside 
> > temps and, to a lesser degree, even wind speed and direction.
> > 
> > -Curt
> > 
> > On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:54:32 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > It’s got an air control on each side, I can’t remember if they are pushed 
> > in or pulled out to open are flow into it. They were pushed in and it 
> > seemed like the fire was dying down with the doors closed so I pulled them 
> > out. As I said it’s been a while since I have used this thing. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > 
> > > On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:49 AM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:
> > > 
> > > Nope it’s all contained in the original brick chimney. I closed the 
> > > doors on it and will see what happens
> > > 
> > > I really need to look into a generator or some sort. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > 
> > >>> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:43 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> > >>> 
> > >> 
> > >> The doors will probably make more heat, you're losing it up the chimney 
> > >> because its getting too much air.
> > >> 
> > >> I've got a thermometer on the stove pipe and I'm always interested in 
> > >> the fact that maximum heat is NOT achieved with maximum air. You've got 
> > >> to run a lot of air to get the fire going and to get the stove/chimney 
> > >> warm but then you need to restrict air some to get max heat. I don't 
> > >> completely understand why but its a fact, at least in my stove. Some of 
> > >> the heat has to go into the chimney, otherwise you won't be able to 
> > >> maintain good draft. Outside chimneys might look cool but they suck for 
> > >> actually burning wood.
> > >> 
> > >> Do you have a pipe coming out of yours you can put a magnetic stove 
> > >> thermometer on? Without one you'll produce less heat and burn way more 
> > >> wood since you don't really know whats happening.
> > >> 
> > >> -Curt
> > >> 
> > >> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:36:05 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via 
> > >> Mercedes  wrote:
> > >> 
> > >> 
> > >> Got the fire going. Of course it will take a while to start putting off 
> > >> some heat. Without the doors closed and the blower going, it seems like 
> > >> it’s probably operating like a regular fireplace with most of the heat 
> > >> going ok the chimney. 
> > >> 
> > >> Sent from my iPhone
> > >> 
> > >> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:07 AM, Curt Raymond  
> > >> > wrote:
> > >> > 
> > >> > 
> > >> > Some of those units do pretty amazing things in the cold these days. 
> > >> > 10-15 years ago 20F was the practical minimum but I've read of units 
> > >> > that will still work down to 0F and there are some that probably go 
> > >> > colder. I suspect efficiency takes a dump at those temps though.
> > >> > 
> > >> > The guy I'm training to run the groomer is an HVAC installer and the 
> > >> > other night he was telling me that just about 

Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-16 Thread Jim Cathey via Mercedes
> an insert with a blower but I guess it will still out out some heat without 
> the blower.

No, not much.  Better than nothing, but not by much.  Add a 12V computer fan 
and a car
battery to the mix and you'd actually get some heat out of it.  The heating 
units designed
for forced air just don't do much by natural convection.  They can keep their 
own fires
going, but most of the heat just doesn't get out into the room.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-16 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
 It takes awhile for the stove and chimney to heat up to the point you really 
radiate heat.The stove we have at camp (An "All Nighter" which is a copy of a 
Fisher) has around 100# of firebrick inside. The first hour its lit from cold 
you're just heating the stove, after that you start to heat the room. The stove 
stays hot for hours after it goes out though. It's annoying when you first get 
to camp and the place is freezing cold and the stove isn't helping. We've got a 
Big Buddy propane heater on hand just for those sort of times. By the time its 
burned through 2x 1# propane cans the stove is starting to radiate heat.

-Curt

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 12:40:35 PM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 It’s good and hot now. Fire going good, top of it is hot but unfortunately 
without the blower it does not push much heat into the room. It’s now down to 
58 in here  by the maybe it’s putting off enough heat to keep it from dropping 
faster than without it. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 11:02 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> 
> Every year I go through a period of relearning how to get maximum output from 
> the stove. There are a couple rules but its really more an art than a 
> science. The quality of the wood makes a big difference as does outside temps 
> and, to a lesser degree, even wind speed and direction.
> 
> -Curt
> 
> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:54:32 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> It’s got an air control on each side, I can’t remember if they are pushed in 
> or pulled out to open are flow into it. They were pushed in and it seemed 
> like the fire was dying down with the doors closed so I pulled them out. As I 
> said it’s been a while since I have used this thing. 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:49 AM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:
> > 
> > Nope it’s all contained in the original brick chimney. I closed the doors 
> > on it and will see what happens
> > 
> > I really need to look into a generator or some sort. 
> > 
> > 
> 
> > 
> > 
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > 
> >>> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:43 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> >>> 
> >> 
> >> The doors will probably make more heat, you're losing it up the chimney 
> >> because its getting too much air.
> >> 
> >> I've got a thermometer on the stove pipe and I'm always interested in the 
> >> fact that maximum heat is NOT achieved with maximum air. You've got to run 
> >> a lot of air to get the fire going and to get the stove/chimney warm but 
> >> then you need to restrict air some to get max heat. I don't completely 
> >> understand why but its a fact, at least in my stove. Some of the heat has 
> >> to go into the chimney, otherwise you won't be able to maintain good 
> >> draft. Outside chimneys might look cool but they suck for actually burning 
> >> wood.
> >> 
> >> Do you have a pipe coming out of yours you can put a magnetic stove 
> >> thermometer on? Without one you'll produce less heat and burn way more 
> >> wood since you don't really know whats happening.
> >> 
> >> -Curt
> >> 
> >> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:36:05 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via 
> >> Mercedes  wrote:
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Got the fire going. Of course it will take a while to start putting off 
> >> some heat. Without the doors closed and the blower going, it seems like 
> >> it’s probably operating like a regular fireplace with most of the heat 
> >> going ok the chimney. 
> >> 
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >> 
> >> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:07 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > Some of those units do pretty amazing things in the cold these days. 
> >> > 10-15 years ago 20F was the practical minimum but I've read of units 
> >> > that will still work down to 0F and there are some that probably go 
> >> > colder. I suspect efficiency takes a dump at those temps though.
> >> > 
> >> > The guy I'm training to run the groomer is an HVAC installer and the 
> >> > other night he was telling me that just about nobody is installing 
> >> > ground source heat pumps any more due to the huge cost and the 
> >> > availability of low temp air source units combined with the low cost of 
> >> > natural gas.
> >> > 
> >> > I'd considered ground source but the ones I've looked at are $20,000+ 
> >> > while a new boiler for our house is more like $6,000 and would decrease 
> >> > our oil use 20-25%. It would take a long long time to pay off that extra 
> >> > cost. There are incentives but they're decreasing every year.
> >> > 
> >> > -Curt
> >> > 
> >> > On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 10:46:10 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via 
> >> > Mercedes  wrote:
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > I don’t know if size matters but it’s a 5 ton unit and even when it was 
> >> > in the single digest I could tell it was putting out heat. I could tell 
> >> > the difference between when the outside unit was running and when it was 
> >> > shut down and only using the aux heat.
> >> > 
> >> > Sent from my iPhone
> >> > 
> 

Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-16 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
 Well that's weird. I don't think I've ever seen a carb fail while the engine 
was running.My little generator has a real actual carb bowl. I was surprised 
when I found that, I figured it'd be more like a Tillotson or Walbro carb on a 
snowmobile or chainsaw that has just a small space that acts like a bowl.
A real bowl is way better, it accumulates water and crud that you can dump out 
later rather than trying to suck it through the jet immediately.
-Curt

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 12:03:32 PM EST, Mitch Haley via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 On 2021-02-16 10:58, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:
> I've got a 1200w 2 stroke generator that has never been used "in
> anger". It outputs 12v also which can be handy.It would be super
> useful for you now as it would easily run your blower and just sip
> fuel. Its supposed to run 8 hours at half load on 1 gallon of gas.

I ran a 850W (1000 peak) unattended overnight last spring with a freezer 
hooked up to it.
One morning I found it dead in a greasy spot on the concrete, started to 
refuel it and saw the premix leaking out of the carb at an alarming 
rate. Need to pull the float bowl off and see what failed.

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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-16 Thread Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
It’s good and hot now. Fire going good, top of it is hot but unfortunately 
without the blower it does not push much heat into the room. It’s now down to 
58 in here  by the maybe it’s putting off enough heat to keep it from dropping 
faster than without it. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 11:02 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> 
> Every year I go through a period of relearning how to get maximum output from 
> the stove. There are a couple rules but its really more an art than a 
> science. The quality of the wood makes a big difference as does outside temps 
> and, to a lesser degree, even wind speed and direction.
> 
> -Curt
> 
> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:54:32 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> It’s got an air control on each side, I can’t remember if they are pushed in 
> or pulled out to open are flow into it. They were pushed in and it seemed 
> like the fire was dying down with the doors closed so I pulled them out. As I 
> said it’s been a while since I have used this thing. 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:49 AM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:
> > 
> > Nope it’s all contained in the original brick chimney. I closed the doors 
> > on it and will see what happens
> > 
> > I really need to look into a generator or some sort. 
> > 
> > 
> 
> > 
> > 
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > 
> >>> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:43 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> >>> 
> >> 
> >> The doors will probably make more heat, you're losing it up the chimney 
> >> because its getting too much air.
> >> 
> >> I've got a thermometer on the stove pipe and I'm always interested in the 
> >> fact that maximum heat is NOT achieved with maximum air. You've got to run 
> >> a lot of air to get the fire going and to get the stove/chimney warm but 
> >> then you need to restrict air some to get max heat. I don't completely 
> >> understand why but its a fact, at least in my stove. Some of the heat has 
> >> to go into the chimney, otherwise you won't be able to maintain good 
> >> draft. Outside chimneys might look cool but they suck for actually burning 
> >> wood.
> >> 
> >> Do you have a pipe coming out of yours you can put a magnetic stove 
> >> thermometer on? Without one you'll produce less heat and burn way more 
> >> wood since you don't really know whats happening.
> >> 
> >> -Curt
> >> 
> >> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:36:05 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via 
> >> Mercedes  wrote:
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Got the fire going. Of course it will take a while to start putting off 
> >> some heat. Without the doors closed and the blower going, it seems like 
> >> it’s probably operating like a regular fireplace with most of the heat 
> >> going ok the chimney. 
> >> 
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >> 
> >> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:07 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > Some of those units do pretty amazing things in the cold these days. 
> >> > 10-15 years ago 20F was the practical minimum but I've read of units 
> >> > that will still work down to 0F and there are some that probably go 
> >> > colder. I suspect efficiency takes a dump at those temps though.
> >> > 
> >> > The guy I'm training to run the groomer is an HVAC installer and the 
> >> > other night he was telling me that just about nobody is installing 
> >> > ground source heat pumps any more due to the huge cost and the 
> >> > availability of low temp air source units combined with the low cost of 
> >> > natural gas.
> >> > 
> >> > I'd considered ground source but the ones I've looked at are $20,000+ 
> >> > while a new boiler for our house is more like $6,000 and would decrease 
> >> > our oil use 20-25%. It would take a long long time to pay off that extra 
> >> > cost. There are incentives but they're decreasing every year.
> >> > 
> >> > -Curt
> >> > 
> >> > On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 10:46:10 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via 
> >> > Mercedes  wrote:
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > I don’t know if size matters but it’s a 5 ton unit and even when it was 
> >> > in the single digest I could tell it was putting out heat. I could tell 
> >> > the difference between when the outside unit was running and when it was 
> >> > shut down and only using the aux heat.
> >> > 
> >> > Sent from my iPhone
> >> > 
> >> > > On Feb 16, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
> >> > >  wrote:
> >> > > 
> >> > > There's no point in it running if it can't extract any heat from the 
> >> > > air.  It's a wonder it was running and putting out much when it got 
> >> > > down below 20F or so.
> >> > > 
> >> > > --FT
> >> > > 
> >> > >> On 2/16/21 10:36 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> >> > >> Power just came back on a few minutes ago.  Outside unit still not 
> >> > >> running.  I did find the installation manual online though. Here is 
> >> > >> some info about the defrost and lockouts.  Sounds like it may simply 
> >> > >> be locking out because the temp is too low.
> >> > >> 
> >> > >> Heating Mode:The compressor and fan motor 

Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-16 Thread Mitch Haley via Mercedes

On 2021-02-16 10:58, Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote:

I've got a 1200w 2 stroke generator that has never been used "in
anger". It outputs 12v also which can be handy.It would be super
useful for you now as it would easily run your blower and just sip
fuel. Its supposed to run 8 hours at half load on 1 gallon of gas.


I ran a 850W (1000 peak) unattended overnight last spring with a freezer 
hooked up to it.
One morning I found it dead in a greasy spot on the concrete, started to 
refuel it and saw the premix leaking out of the carb at an alarming 
rate. Need to pull the float bowl off and see what failed.


___
http://www.okiebenz.com

To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com



Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-16 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
 Every year I go through a period of relearning how to get maximum output from 
the stove. There are a couple rules but its really more an art than a science. 
The quality of the wood makes a big difference as does outside temps and, to a 
lesser degree, even wind speed and direction.
-Curt

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:54:32 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 It’s got an air control on each side, I can’t remember if they are pushed in 
or pulled out to open are flow into it. They were pushed in and it seemed like 
the fire was dying down with the doors closed so I pulled them out. As I said 
it’s been a while since I have used this thing. 



Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:49 AM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:
> 
> Nope it’s all contained in the original brick chimney. I closed the doors on 
> it and will see what happens
> 
> I really need to look into a generator or some sort. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:43 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>> The doors will probably make more heat, you're losing it up the chimney 
>> because its getting too much air.
>> 
>> I've got a thermometer on the stove pipe and I'm always interested in the 
>> fact that maximum heat is NOT achieved with maximum air. You've got to run a 
>> lot of air to get the fire going and to get the stove/chimney warm but then 
>> you need to restrict air some to get max heat. I don't completely understand 
>> why but its a fact, at least in my stove. Some of the heat has to go into 
>> the chimney, otherwise you won't be able to maintain good draft. Outside 
>> chimneys might look cool but they suck for actually burning wood.
>> 
>> Do you have a pipe coming out of yours you can put a magnetic stove 
>> thermometer on? Without one you'll produce less heat and burn way more wood 
>> since you don't really know whats happening.
>> 
>> -Curt
>> 
>> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:36:05 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Got the fire going. Of course it will take a while to start putting off some 
>> heat. Without the doors closed and the blower going, it seems like it’s 
>> probably operating like a regular fireplace with most of the heat going ok 
>> the chimney. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:07 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
>> > 
>> > 
>> > Some of those units do pretty amazing things in the cold these days. 10-15 
>> > years ago 20F was the practical minimum but I've read of units that will 
>> > still work down to 0F and there are some that probably go colder. I 
>> > suspect efficiency takes a dump at those temps though.
>> > 
>> > The guy I'm training to run the groomer is an HVAC installer and the other 
>> > night he was telling me that just about nobody is installing ground source 
>> > heat pumps any more due to the huge cost and the availability of low temp 
>> > air source units combined with the low cost of natural gas.
>> > 
>> > I'd considered ground source but the ones I've looked at are $20,000+ 
>> > while a new boiler for our house is more like $6,000 and would decrease 
>> > our oil use 20-25%. It would take a long long time to pay off that extra 
>> > cost. There are incentives but they're decreasing every year.
>> > 
>> > -Curt
>> > 
>> > On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 10:46:10 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via 
>> > Mercedes  wrote:
>> > 
>> > 
>> > I don’t know if size matters but it’s a 5 ton unit and even when it was in 
>> > the single digest I could tell it was putting out heat. I could tell the 
>> > difference between when the outside unit was running and when it was shut 
>> > down and only using the aux heat.
>> > 
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> > 
>> > > On Feb 16, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
>> > >  wrote:
>> > > 
>> > > There's no point in it running if it can't extract any heat from the 
>> > > air.  It's a wonder it was running and putting out much when it got down 
>> > > below 20F or so.
>> > > 
>> > > --FT
>> > > 
>> > >> On 2/16/21 10:36 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>> > >> Power just came back on a few minutes ago.  Outside unit still not 
>> > >> running.  I did find the installation manual online though. Here is 
>> > >> some info about the defrost and lockouts.  Sounds like it may simply be 
>> > >> locking out because the temp is too low.
>> > >> 
>> > >> Heating Mode:The compressor and fan motor will stop when the low 
>> > >> pressure control opens and will start again when the low side pressure 
>> > >> rises to approximately 40 psig when the low pressure automatically 
>> > >> resets�If the low pressure switch trips 3 times within 120 minutes of 
>> > >> operation during a particular call for heating operation, the defrost 
>> > >> control will lock out compressor and outdoor fan operation�If the lock 
>> > >> out due to low pressure occurs at an outdoor ambient temperature below 
>> > >> 5°F, the defrost control will automatically exit the lockout mode 

Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-16 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
 I've got a 1200w 2 stroke generator that has never been used "in anger". It 
outputs 12v also which can be handy.It would be super useful for you now as it 
would easily run your blower and just sip fuel. Its supposed to run 8 hours at 
half load on 1 gallon of gas.
A Honda 2000w would be better but also would be 5x the cost and considering 
I've never really needed mine I can't justify it.I have considered the Harbor 
Freight copy to have at camp. When we were up there last July it was stiflingly 
hot. Dad wants to get a small air conditioner but the 3000w "Champion" 
generator we have now is quite loud.Google suggests that a 5000BTU aircon needs 
550w/hr so the small "super quiet" generator from Harbor Freight would do the 
job easily. We've got 500 or so sqft. of camp. It wouldn't make ice cubes 
inside but would certainly take the edge off.
-Curt



On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:49:02 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Nope it’s all contained in the original brick chimney. I closed the doors on 
it and will see what happens

I really need to look into a generator or some sort. 



Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:43 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> 
> The doors will probably make more heat, you're losing it up the chimney 
> because its getting too much air.
> 
> I've got a thermometer on the stove pipe and I'm always interested in the 
> fact that maximum heat is NOT achieved with maximum air. You've got to run a 
> lot of air to get the fire going and to get the stove/chimney warm but then 
> you need to restrict air some to get max heat. I don't completely understand 
> why but its a fact, at least in my stove. Some of the heat has to go into the 
> chimney, otherwise you won't be able to maintain good draft. Outside chimneys 
> might look cool but they suck for actually burning wood.
> 
> Do you have a pipe coming out of yours you can put a magnetic stove 
> thermometer on? Without one you'll produce less heat and burn way more wood 
> since you don't really know whats happening.
> 
> -Curt
> 
> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:36:05 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Got the fire going. Of course it will take a while to start putting off some 
> heat. Without the doors closed and the blower going, it seems like it’s 
> probably operating like a regular fireplace with most of the heat going ok 
> the chimney. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:07 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Some of those units do pretty amazing things in the cold these days. 10-15 
> > years ago 20F was the practical minimum but I've read of units that will 
> > still work down to 0F and there are some that probably go colder. I suspect 
> > efficiency takes a dump at those temps though.
> > 
> > The guy I'm training to run the groomer is an HVAC installer and the other 
> > night he was telling me that just about nobody is installing ground source 
> > heat pumps any more due to the huge cost and the availability of low temp 
> > air source units combined with the low cost of natural gas.
> > 
> > I'd considered ground source but the ones I've looked at are $20,000+ while 
> > a new boiler for our house is more like $6,000 and would decrease our oil 
> > use 20-25%. It would take a long long time to pay off that extra cost. 
> > There are incentives but they're decreasing every year.
> > 
> > -Curt
> > 
> > On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 10:46:10 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > I don’t know if size matters but it’s a 5 ton unit and even when it was in 
> > the single digest I could tell it was putting out heat. I could tell the 
> > difference between when the outside unit was running and when it was shut 
> > down and only using the aux heat.
> > 
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > 
> > > On Feb 16, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
> > >  wrote:
> > > 
> > > There's no point in it running if it can't extract any heat from the 
> > > air.  It's a wonder it was running and putting out much when it got down 
> > > below 20F or so.
> > > 
> > > --FT
> > > 
> > >> On 2/16/21 10:36 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> > >> Power just came back on a few minutes ago.  Outside unit still not 
> > >> running.  I did find the installation manual online though. Here is some 
> > >> info about the defrost and lockouts.  Sounds like it may simply be 
> > >> locking out because the temp is too low.
> > >> 
> > >> Heating Mode:The compressor and fan motor will stop when the low 
> > >> pressure control opens and will start again when the low side pressure 
> > >> rises to approximately 40 psig when the low pressure automatically 
> > >> resets�If the low pressure switch trips 3 times within 120 minutes of 
> > >> operation during a particular call for heating operation, the defrost 
> > >> control will lock out compressor and outdoor fan operation�If the lock 
> > >> out due to low pressure occurs at an outdoor 

Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-16 Thread Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
It’s got an air control on each side, I can’t remember if they are pushed in or 
pulled out to open are flow into it. They were pushed in and it seemed like the 
fire was dying down with the doors closed so I pulled them out. As I said it’s 
been a while since I have used this thing. 



Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:49 AM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:
> 
> Nope it’s all contained in the original brick chimney. I closed the doors on 
> it and will see what happens
> 
> I really need to look into a generator or some sort. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:43 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>> The doors will probably make more heat, you're losing it up the chimney 
>> because its getting too much air.
>> 
>> I've got a thermometer on the stove pipe and I'm always interested in the 
>> fact that maximum heat is NOT achieved with maximum air. You've got to run a 
>> lot of air to get the fire going and to get the stove/chimney warm but then 
>> you need to restrict air some to get max heat. I don't completely understand 
>> why but its a fact, at least in my stove. Some of the heat has to go into 
>> the chimney, otherwise you won't be able to maintain good draft. Outside 
>> chimneys might look cool but they suck for actually burning wood.
>> 
>> Do you have a pipe coming out of yours you can put a magnetic stove 
>> thermometer on? Without one you'll produce less heat and burn way more wood 
>> since you don't really know whats happening.
>> 
>> -Curt
>> 
>> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:36:05 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Got the fire going. Of course it will take a while to start putting off some 
>> heat. Without the doors closed and the blower going, it seems like it’s 
>> probably operating like a regular fireplace with most of the heat going ok 
>> the chimney. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:07 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
>> > 
>> > 
>> > Some of those units do pretty amazing things in the cold these days. 10-15 
>> > years ago 20F was the practical minimum but I've read of units that will 
>> > still work down to 0F and there are some that probably go colder. I 
>> > suspect efficiency takes a dump at those temps though.
>> > 
>> > The guy I'm training to run the groomer is an HVAC installer and the other 
>> > night he was telling me that just about nobody is installing ground source 
>> > heat pumps any more due to the huge cost and the availability of low temp 
>> > air source units combined with the low cost of natural gas.
>> > 
>> > I'd considered ground source but the ones I've looked at are $20,000+ 
>> > while a new boiler for our house is more like $6,000 and would decrease 
>> > our oil use 20-25%. It would take a long long time to pay off that extra 
>> > cost. There are incentives but they're decreasing every year.
>> > 
>> > -Curt
>> > 
>> > On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 10:46:10 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via 
>> > Mercedes  wrote:
>> > 
>> > 
>> > I don’t know if size matters but it’s a 5 ton unit and even when it was in 
>> > the single digest I could tell it was putting out heat. I could tell the 
>> > difference between when the outside unit was running and when it was shut 
>> > down and only using the aux heat.
>> > 
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> > 
>> > > On Feb 16, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
>> > >  wrote:
>> > > 
>> > > There's no point in it running if it can't extract any heat from the 
>> > > air.  It's a wonder it was running and putting out much when it got down 
>> > > below 20F or so.
>> > > 
>> > > --FT
>> > > 
>> > >> On 2/16/21 10:36 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>> > >> Power just came back on a few minutes ago.  Outside unit still not 
>> > >> running.  I did find the installation manual online though. Here is 
>> > >> some info about the defrost and lockouts.  Sounds like it may simply be 
>> > >> locking out because the temp is too low.
>> > >> 
>> > >> Heating Mode:The compressor and fan motor will stop when the low 
>> > >> pressure control opens and will start again when the low side pressure 
>> > >> rises to approximately 40 psig when the low pressure automatically 
>> > >> resets�If the low pressure switch trips 3 times within 120 minutes of 
>> > >> operation during a particular call for heating operation, the defrost 
>> > >> control will lock out compressor and outdoor fan operation�If the lock 
>> > >> out due to low pressure occurs at an outdoor ambient temperature below 
>> > >> 5°F, the defrost control will automatically exit the lockout mode when 
>> > >> the outdoor ambient temperature rises 5°F�This feature is necessary 
>> > >> since the low pressure control could possibly have opened due to the 
>> > >> outdoor ambient being very low rather than an actual system fault�
>> > >> 
>> > >> 
>> > >> Of course with the power being out I figure that would have caused the 
>> > >> lockout to reset at least for a while.  Will 

Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-16 Thread Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
Nope it’s all contained in the original brick chimney. I closed the doors on it 
and will see what happens

I really need to look into a generator or some sort. 



Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:43 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> 
> The doors will probably make more heat, you're losing it up the chimney 
> because its getting too much air.
> 
> I've got a thermometer on the stove pipe and I'm always interested in the 
> fact that maximum heat is NOT achieved with maximum air. You've got to run a 
> lot of air to get the fire going and to get the stove/chimney warm but then 
> you need to restrict air some to get max heat. I don't completely understand 
> why but its a fact, at least in my stove. Some of the heat has to go into the 
> chimney, otherwise you won't be able to maintain good draft. Outside chimneys 
> might look cool but they suck for actually burning wood.
> 
> Do you have a pipe coming out of yours you can put a magnetic stove 
> thermometer on? Without one you'll produce less heat and burn way more wood 
> since you don't really know whats happening.
> 
> -Curt
> 
> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:36:05 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Got the fire going. Of course it will take a while to start putting off some 
> heat. Without the doors closed and the blower going, it seems like it’s 
> probably operating like a regular fireplace with most of the heat going ok 
> the chimney. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:07 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Some of those units do pretty amazing things in the cold these days. 10-15 
> > years ago 20F was the practical minimum but I've read of units that will 
> > still work down to 0F and there are some that probably go colder. I suspect 
> > efficiency takes a dump at those temps though.
> > 
> > The guy I'm training to run the groomer is an HVAC installer and the other 
> > night he was telling me that just about nobody is installing ground source 
> > heat pumps any more due to the huge cost and the availability of low temp 
> > air source units combined with the low cost of natural gas.
> > 
> > I'd considered ground source but the ones I've looked at are $20,000+ while 
> > a new boiler for our house is more like $6,000 and would decrease our oil 
> > use 20-25%. It would take a long long time to pay off that extra cost. 
> > There are incentives but they're decreasing every year.
> > 
> > -Curt
> > 
> > On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 10:46:10 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > I don’t know if size matters but it’s a 5 ton unit and even when it was in 
> > the single digest I could tell it was putting out heat. I could tell the 
> > difference between when the outside unit was running and when it was shut 
> > down and only using the aux heat.
> > 
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > 
> > > On Feb 16, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
> > >  wrote:
> > > 
> > > There's no point in it running if it can't extract any heat from the 
> > > air.  It's a wonder it was running and putting out much when it got down 
> > > below 20F or so.
> > > 
> > > --FT
> > > 
> > >> On 2/16/21 10:36 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> > >> Power just came back on a few minutes ago.  Outside unit still not 
> > >> running.  I did find the installation manual online though. Here is some 
> > >> info about the defrost and lockouts.  Sounds like it may simply be 
> > >> locking out because the temp is too low.
> > >> 
> > >> Heating Mode:The compressor and fan motor will stop when the low 
> > >> pressure control opens and will start again when the low side pressure 
> > >> rises to approximately 40 psig when the low pressure automatically 
> > >> resets�If the low pressure switch trips 3 times within 120 minutes of 
> > >> operation during a particular call for heating operation, the defrost 
> > >> control will lock out compressor and outdoor fan operation�If the lock 
> > >> out due to low pressure occurs at an outdoor ambient temperature below 
> > >> 5°F, the defrost control will automatically exit the lockout mode when 
> > >> the outdoor ambient temperature rises 5°F�This feature is necessary 
> > >> since the low pressure control could possibly have opened due to the 
> > >> outdoor ambient being very low rather than an actual system fault�
> > >> 
> > >> 
> > >> Of course with the power being out I figure that would have caused the 
> > >> lockout to reset at least for a while.  Will see what happens when it 
> > >> gets over 5 this afternoon.
> > > 
> > > ___
> > > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > > 
> > > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > > 
> > > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > 
> > To search list archives 

Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-16 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
 Closed, always with the doors closed. That's what allows you to control the 
air going in, otherwise all your warmed room air is going up the chimney.

-Curt

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:39:46 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 So got questions about these inserts. I have ran it before with the blower 
going and the doors closed and it will heat the house nicely. With no power 
should I run it with the doors open or closed? It’s burning pretty good now but 
seems like there is very little head coming off of it yet. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:36 AM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:
> 
> Got the fire going. Of course it will take a while to start putting off some 
> heat. Without the doors closed and the blower going, it seems like it’s 
> probably operating like a regular fireplace with most of the heat going ok 
> the chimney. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:07 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>> Some of those units do pretty amazing things in the cold these days. 10-15 
>> years ago 20F was the practical minimum but I've read of units that will 
>> still work down to 0F and there are some that probably go colder. I suspect 
>> efficiency takes a dump at those temps though.
>> 
>> The guy I'm training to run the groomer is an HVAC installer and the other 
>> night he was telling me that just about nobody is installing ground source 
>> heat pumps any more due to the huge cost and the availability of low temp 
>> air source units combined with the low cost of natural gas.
>> 
>> I'd considered ground source but the ones I've looked at are $20,000+ while 
>> a new boiler for our house is more like $6,000 and would decrease our oil 
>> use 20-25%. It would take a long long time to pay off that extra cost. There 
>> are incentives but they're decreasing every year.
>> 
>> -Curt
>> 
>> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 10:46:10 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I don’t know if size matters but it’s a 5 ton unit and even when it was in 
>> the single digest I could tell it was putting out heat. I could tell the 
>> difference between when the outside unit was running and when it was shut 
>> down and only using the aux heat. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
>> >  wrote:
>> > 
>> > There's no point in it running if it can't extract any heat from the air. 
>> >  It's a wonder it was running and putting out much when it got down below 
>> > 20F or so.
>> > 
>> > --FT
>> > 
>> >> On 2/16/21 10:36 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>> >> Power just came back on a few minutes ago.  Outside unit still not 
>> >> running.  I did find the installation manual online though. Here is some 
>> >> info about the defrost and lockouts.  Sounds like it may simply be 
>> >> locking out because the temp is too low.
>> >> 
>> >> Heating Mode:The compressor and fan motor will stop when the low pressure 
>> >> control opens and will start again when the low side pressure rises to 
>> >> approximately 40 psig when the low pressure automatically resets�If the 
>> >> low pressure switch trips 3 times within 120 minutes of operation during 
>> >> a particular call for heating operation, the defrost control will lock 
>> >> out compressor and outdoor fan operation�If the lock out due to low 
>> >> pressure occurs at an outdoor ambient temperature below 5°F, the defrost 
>> >> control will automatically exit the lockout mode when the outdoor ambient 
>> >> temperature rises 5°F�This feature is necessary since the low pressure 
>> >> control could possibly have opened due to the outdoor ambient being very 
>> >> low rather than an actual system fault�
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> Of course with the power being out I figure that would have caused the 
>> >> lockout to reset at least for a while.  Will see what happens when it 
>> >> gets over 5 this afternoon.
>> > 
>> > ___
>> > http://www.okiebenz.com
>> > 
>> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> > 
>> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> > 
>> 
>> 
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>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-16 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
 The doors will probably make more heat, you're losing it up the chimney 
because its getting too much air.
I've got a thermometer on the stove pipe and I'm always interested in the fact 
that maximum heat is NOT achieved with maximum air. You've got to run a lot of 
air to get the fire going and to get the stove/chimney warm but then you need 
to restrict air some to get max heat. I don't completely understand why but its 
a fact, at least in my stove. Some of the heat has to go into the chimney, 
otherwise you won't be able to maintain good draft. Outside chimneys might look 
cool but they suck for actually burning wood.

Do you have a pipe coming out of yours you can put a magnetic stove thermometer 
on? Without one you'll produce less heat and burn way more wood since you don't 
really know whats happening.
-Curt

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 11:36:05 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Got the fire going. Of course it will take a while to start putting off some 
heat. Without the doors closed and the blower going, it seems like it’s 
probably operating like a regular fireplace with most of the heat going ok the 
chimney. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:07 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> 
> Some of those units do pretty amazing things in the cold these days. 10-15 
> years ago 20F was the practical minimum but I've read of units that will 
> still work down to 0F and there are some that probably go colder. I suspect 
> efficiency takes a dump at those temps though.
> 
> The guy I'm training to run the groomer is an HVAC installer and the other 
> night he was telling me that just about nobody is installing ground source 
> heat pumps any more due to the huge cost and the availability of low temp air 
> source units combined with the low cost of natural gas.
> 
> I'd considered ground source but the ones I've looked at are $20,000+ while a 
> new boiler for our house is more like $6,000 and would decrease our oil use 
> 20-25%. It would take a long long time to pay off that extra cost. There are 
> incentives but they're decreasing every year.
> 
> -Curt
> 
> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 10:46:10 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I don’t know if size matters but it’s a 5 ton unit and even when it was in 
> the single digest I could tell it was putting out heat. I could tell the 
> difference between when the outside unit was running and when it was shut 
> down and only using the aux heat.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > There's no point in it running if it can't extract any heat from the air.  
> > It's a wonder it was running and putting out much when it got down below 
> > 20F or so.
> > 
> > --FT
> > 
> >> On 2/16/21 10:36 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> >> Power just came back on a few minutes ago.  Outside unit still not 
> >> running.  I did find the installation manual online though. Here is some 
> >> info about the defrost and lockouts.  Sounds like it may simply be locking 
> >> out because the temp is too low.
> >> 
> >> Heating Mode:The compressor and fan motor will stop when the low pressure 
> >> control opens and will start again when the low side pressure rises to 
> >> approximately 40 psig when the low pressure automatically resets�If the 
> >> low pressure switch trips 3 times within 120 minutes of operation during a 
> >> particular call for heating operation, the defrost control will lock out 
> >> compressor and outdoor fan operation�If the lock out due to low pressure 
> >> occurs at an outdoor ambient temperature below 5°F, the defrost control 
> >> will automatically exit the lockout mode when the outdoor ambient 
> >> temperature rises 5°F�This feature is necessary since the low pressure 
> >> control could possibly have opened due to the outdoor ambient being very 
> >> low rather than an actual system fault�
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Of course with the power being out I figure that would have caused the 
> >> lockout to reset at least for a while.  Will see what happens when it gets 
> >> over 5 this afternoon.
> > 
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > 
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> > 
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> > 
> 
> 
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To 

Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-16 Thread Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
So got questions about these inserts. I have ran it before with the blower 
going and the doors closed and it will heat the house nicely. With no power 
should I run it with the doors open or closed? It’s burning pretty good now but 
seems like there is very little head coming off of it yet. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:36 AM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:
> 
> Got the fire going. Of course it will take a while to start putting off some 
> heat. Without the doors closed and the blower going, it seems like it’s 
> probably operating like a regular fireplace with most of the heat going ok 
> the chimney. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:07 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>> Some of those units do pretty amazing things in the cold these days. 10-15 
>> years ago 20F was the practical minimum but I've read of units that will 
>> still work down to 0F and there are some that probably go colder. I suspect 
>> efficiency takes a dump at those temps though.
>> 
>> The guy I'm training to run the groomer is an HVAC installer and the other 
>> night he was telling me that just about nobody is installing ground source 
>> heat pumps any more due to the huge cost and the availability of low temp 
>> air source units combined with the low cost of natural gas.
>> 
>> I'd considered ground source but the ones I've looked at are $20,000+ while 
>> a new boiler for our house is more like $6,000 and would decrease our oil 
>> use 20-25%. It would take a long long time to pay off that extra cost. There 
>> are incentives but they're decreasing every year.
>> 
>> -Curt
>> 
>> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 10:46:10 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I don’t know if size matters but it’s a 5 ton unit and even when it was in 
>> the single digest I could tell it was putting out heat. I could tell the 
>> difference between when the outside unit was running and when it was shut 
>> down and only using the aux heat. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
>> >  wrote:
>> > 
>> > There's no point in it running if it can't extract any heat from the air. 
>> >  It's a wonder it was running and putting out much when it got down below 
>> > 20F or so.
>> > 
>> > --FT
>> > 
>> >> On 2/16/21 10:36 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>> >> Power just came back on a few minutes ago.  Outside unit still not 
>> >> running.  I did find the installation manual online though. Here is some 
>> >> info about the defrost and lockouts.  Sounds like it may simply be 
>> >> locking out because the temp is too low.
>> >> 
>> >> Heating Mode:The compressor and fan motor will stop when the low pressure 
>> >> control opens and will start again when the low side pressure rises to 
>> >> approximately 40 psig when the low pressure automatically resets�If the 
>> >> low pressure switch trips 3 times within 120 minutes of operation during 
>> >> a particular call for heating operation, the defrost control will lock 
>> >> out compressor and outdoor fan operation�If the lock out due to low 
>> >> pressure occurs at an outdoor ambient temperature below 5°F, the defrost 
>> >> control will automatically exit the lockout mode when the outdoor ambient 
>> >> temperature rises 5°F�This feature is necessary since the low pressure 
>> >> control could possibly have opened due to the outdoor ambient being very 
>> >> low rather than an actual system fault�
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> Of course with the power being out I figure that would have caused the 
>> >> lockout to reset at least for a while.  Will see what happens when it 
>> >> gets over 5 this afternoon.
>> > 
>> > ___
>> > http://www.okiebenz.com
>> > 
>> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> > 
>> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
>> > 
>> 
>> 
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>> 
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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-16 Thread Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
Got the fire going. Of course it will take a while to start putting off some 
heat. Without the doors closed and the blower going, it seems like it’s 
probably operating like a regular fireplace with most of the heat going ok the 
chimney. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 10:07 AM, Curt Raymond  wrote:
> 
> 
> Some of those units do pretty amazing things in the cold these days. 10-15 
> years ago 20F was the practical minimum but I've read of units that will 
> still work down to 0F and there are some that probably go colder. I suspect 
> efficiency takes a dump at those temps though.
> 
> The guy I'm training to run the groomer is an HVAC installer and the other 
> night he was telling me that just about nobody is installing ground source 
> heat pumps any more due to the huge cost and the availability of low temp air 
> source units combined with the low cost of natural gas.
> 
> I'd considered ground source but the ones I've looked at are $20,000+ while a 
> new boiler for our house is more like $6,000 and would decrease our oil use 
> 20-25%. It would take a long long time to pay off that extra cost. There are 
> incentives but they're decreasing every year.
> 
> -Curt
> 
> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 10:46:10 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> I don’t know if size matters but it’s a 5 ton unit and even when it was in 
> the single digest I could tell it was putting out heat. I could tell the 
> difference between when the outside unit was running and when it was shut 
> down and only using the aux heat.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On Feb 16, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > There's no point in it running if it can't extract any heat from the air.  
> > It's a wonder it was running and putting out much when it got down below 
> > 20F or so.
> > 
> > --FT
> > 
> >> On 2/16/21 10:36 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> >> Power just came back on a few minutes ago.  Outside unit still not 
> >> running.  I did find the installation manual online though. Here is some 
> >> info about the defrost and lockouts.  Sounds like it may simply be locking 
> >> out because the temp is too low.
> >> 
> >> Heating Mode:The compressor and fan motor will stop when the low pressure 
> >> control opens and will start again when the low side pressure rises to 
> >> approximately 40 psig when the low pressure automatically resets�If the 
> >> low pressure switch trips 3 times within 120 minutes of operation during a 
> >> particular call for heating operation, the defrost control will lock out 
> >> compressor and outdoor fan operation�If the lock out due to low pressure 
> >> occurs at an outdoor ambient temperature below 5°F, the defrost control 
> >> will automatically exit the lockout mode when the outdoor ambient 
> >> temperature rises 5°F�This feature is necessary since the low pressure 
> >> control could possibly have opened due to the outdoor ambient being very 
> >> low rather than an actual system fault�
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Of course with the power being out I figure that would have caused the 
> >> lockout to reset at least for a while.  Will see what happens when it gets 
> >> over 5 this afternoon.
> > 
> > ___
> > http://www.okiebenz.com
> > 
> > To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
> > 
> > To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> > http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
> 
> > 
> 
> 
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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-16 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
 Some of those units do pretty amazing things in the cold these days. 10-15 
years ago 20F was the practical minimum but I've read of units that will still 
work down to 0F and there are some that probably go colder. I suspect 
efficiency takes a dump at those temps though.
The guy I'm training to run the groomer is an HVAC installer and the other 
night he was telling me that just about nobody is installing ground source heat 
pumps any more due to the huge cost and the availability of low temp air source 
units combined with the low cost of natural gas.
I'd considered ground source but the ones I've looked at are $20,000+ while a 
new boiler for our house is more like $6,000 and would decrease our oil use 
20-25%. It would take a long long time to pay off that extra cost. There are 
incentives but they're decreasing every year.
-Curt

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 10:46:10 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 I don’t know if size matters but it’s a 5 ton unit and even when it was in the 
single digest I could tell it was putting out heat. I could tell the difference 
between when the outside unit was running and when it was shut down and only 
using the aux heat. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> There's no point in it running if it can't extract any heat from the air.  
> It's a wonder it was running and putting out much when it got down below 20F 
> or so.
> 
> --FT
> 
>> On 2/16/21 10:36 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>> Power just came back on a few minutes ago.  Outside unit still not running.  
>> I did find the installation manual online though. Here is some info about 
>> the defrost and lockouts.  Sounds like it may simply be locking out because 
>> the temp is too low.
>> 
>> Heating Mode:The compressor and fan motor will stop when the low pressure 
>> control opens and will start again when the low side pressure rises to 
>> approximately 40 psig when the low pressure automatically resets�If the low 
>> pressure switch trips 3 times within 120 minutes of operation during a 
>> particular call for heating operation, the defrost control will lock out 
>> compressor and outdoor fan operation�If the lock out due to low pressure 
>> occurs at an outdoor ambient temperature below 5°F, the defrost control will 
>> automatically exit the lockout mode when the outdoor ambient temperature 
>> rises 5°F�This feature is necessary since the low pressure control could 
>> possibly have opened due to the outdoor ambient being very low rather than 
>> an actual system fault�
>> 
>> 
>> Of course with the power being out I figure that would have caused the 
>> lockout to reset at least for a while.  Will see what happens when it gets 
>> over 5 this afternoon.
> 
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
> 
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> 
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-16 Thread Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
I don’t know if size matters but it’s a 5 ton unit and even when it was in the 
single digest I could tell it was putting out heat. I could tell the difference 
between when the outside unit was running and when it was shut down and only 
using the aux heat. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 9:44 AM, Floyd Thursby via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> There's no point in it running if it can't extract any heat from the air.  
> It's a wonder it was running and putting out much when it got down below 20F 
> or so.
> 
> --FT
> 
>> On 2/16/21 10:36 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>> Power just came back on a few minutes ago.  Outside unit still not running.  
>> I did find the installation manual online though. Here is some info about 
>> the defrost and lockouts.  Sounds like it may simply be locking out because 
>> the temp is too low.
>> 
>> Heating Mode:The compressor and fan motor will stop when the low pressure 
>> control opens and will start again when the low side pressure rises to 
>> approximately 40 psig when the low pressure automatically resets�If the low 
>> pressure switch trips 3 times within 120 minutes of operation during a 
>> particular call for heating operation, the defrost control will lock out 
>> compressor and outdoor fan operation�If the lock out due to low pressure 
>> occurs at an outdoor ambient temperature below 5°F, the defrost control will 
>> automatically exit the lockout mode when the outdoor ambient temperature 
>> rises 5°F�This feature is necessary since the low pressure control could 
>> possibly have opened due to the outdoor ambient being very low rather than 
>> an actual system fault�
>> 
>> 
>> Of course with the power being out I figure that would have caused the 
>> lockout to reset at least for a while.  Will see what happens when it gets 
>> over 5 this afternoon.
> 
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> 
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> 
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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-16 Thread Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
Power just went out again. Going to head out and haul in some firewood and see 
if I can get this fireplace going. It’s actually an insert with a blower but I 
guess it will still out out some heat without the blower. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 9:37 AM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:
> 
> 
> Power just came back on a few minutes ago.  Outside unit still not running.  
> I did find the installation manual online though.  Here is some info about 
> the defrost and lockouts.  Sounds like it may simply be locking out because 
> the temp is too low.
> 
> Heating Mode: The compressor and fan motor will stop when the low pressure 
> control opens and will start again when the low side pressure rises to 
> approximately 40 psig when the low pressure automatically resets� If the low 
> pressure switch trips 3 times within 120 minutes of operation during a 
> particular call for heating operation, the defrost control will lock out 
> compressor and outdoor fan operation� If the lock out due to low pressure 
> occurs at an outdoor ambient temperature below 5°F, the defrost control will 
> automatically exit the lockout mode when the outdoor ambient temperature 
> rises 5°F� This feature is necessary since the low pressure control could 
> possibly have opened due to the outdoor ambient being very low rather than an 
> actual system fault�
> 
> 
> 
> Of course with the power being out I figure that would have caused the 
> lockout to reset at least for a while.  Will see what happens when it gets 
> over 5 this afternoon.
> 
> On 2/16/2021 9:19 AM, Curt Raymond wrote:
>> Wrong attitude, it takes time for the stove to get warm, it takes time to 
>> warm up the house. The time to start the fire is immediately after the power 
>> goes out. If it comes back on quickly then fine, let the fire go out. If you 
>> wait until you're cold you're going to be very cold before the fire gets 
>> things warmed back up.
>> 
>> -Curt
>> 
>> On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 9:23:26 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Good idea, I will see if I can find one. At the current moment it is 
>> irrelevant anyway as the power has been off for an hour. Supposedly will be 
>> restored by 9am. If it comes back in then, fine. If it goes past that I will 
>> have to fire up the fireplace. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> > On Feb 15, 2021, at 11:06 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>> >  wrote:
>> > 
>> > When all else fails, read the instructions?  The basic setup is the same 
>> > for most heat pump systems except for details like TXV vs piston/orifice.  
>> > But the control electronics (typically on a defrost control board) can do 
>> > anything, like totally shut down below some temp.  Might be worth 
>> > downloading and browsing the owners' manual (or might not; some are much 
>> > worse than others).
>> > 
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
>> > Sent: Monday, February 15, 2021 11:52 PM
>> > To: Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>> > Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
>> > Subject: Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question
>> > 
>> > Sounds like the unit just kicked back on. Guess we shall see how the night 
>> > goes. 
>> > 
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>> > 
>> >> On Feb 15, 2021, at 10:44 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>> >>  wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> I will be damned if it isn’t shut off again. Can say for sure about last 
>> >> time but this time code is for low pressure switch open, not the same low 
>> >> pressure lockout as before. Don’t see any loose or damaged wires to any 
>> >> pressure switches. Jumping the pins didn’t reset it either. Guess it will 
>> >> be expensive aux heat tonight. 
>> >> 
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >> 
>> >>>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 10:23 PM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:
>> >>> 
>> >>> Just noticed outside unit was shut off again. Coils had no frost on 
>> >>> them at all but it was in low pressure lockout. Reset it and forced a 
>> >>> defrost away way. It’s down to -4 at the moment. I wonder if it’s just 
>> >>> too damn cold for it and pressure is dropping, or if it really is low on 
>> >>> charge. If so, can these things even be charged in the winter? Or do 
>> >>> they have to be done during the warmer months? Btw supposed to get down 
>> >>> to -14 tonight. 
>> >>> 
>> >>

Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-16 Thread Floyd Thursby via Mercedes
There's no point in it running if it can't extract any heat from the 
air.  It's a wonder it was running and putting out much when it got down 
below 20F or so.


--FT

On 2/16/21 10:36 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
Power just came back on a few minutes ago.  Outside unit still not 
running.  I did find the installation manual online though. Here is 
some info about the defrost and lockouts.  Sounds like it may simply 
be locking out because the temp is too low.


Heating Mode:The compressor and fan motor will stop when the low 
pressure control opens and will start again when the low side pressure 
rises to approximately 40 psig when the low pressure automatically 
resets�If the low pressure switch trips 3 times within 120 minutes of 
operation during a particular call for heating operation, the defrost 
control will lock out compressor and outdoor fan operation�If the lock 
out due to low pressure occurs at an outdoor ambient temperature below 
5°F, the defrost control will automatically exit the lockout mode when 
the outdoor ambient temperature rises 5°F�This feature is necessary 
since the low pressure control could possibly have opened due to the 
outdoor ambient being very low rather than an actual system fault�



Of course with the power being out I figure that would have caused the 
lockout to reset at least for a while.  Will see what happens when it 
gets over 5 this afternoon.


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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-16 Thread Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
Power just came back on a few minutes ago.  Outside unit still not 
running.  I did find the installation manual online though. Here is some 
info about the defrost and lockouts.  Sounds like it may simply be 
locking out because the temp is too low.


Heating Mode:The compressor and fan motor will stop when the low 
pressure control opens and will start again when the low side pressure 
rises to approximately 40 psig when the low pressure automatically 
resets�If the low pressure switch trips 3 times within 120 minutes of 
operation during a particular call for heating operation, the defrost 
control will lock out compressor and outdoor fan operation�If the lock 
out due to low pressure occurs at an outdoor ambient temperature below 
5°F, the defrost control will automatically exit the lockout mode when 
the outdoor ambient temperature rises 5°F�This feature is necessary 
since the low pressure control could possibly have opened due to the 
outdoor ambient being very low rather than an actual system fault�



Of course with the power being out I figure that would have caused the 
lockout to reset at least for a while.  Will see what happens when it 
gets over 5 this afternoon.


On 2/16/2021 9:19 AM, Curt Raymond wrote:
Wrong attitude, it takes time for the stove to get warm, it takes time 
to warm up the house. The time to start the fire is immediately after 
the power goes out. If it comes back on quickly then fine, let the 
fire go out. If you wait until you're cold you're going to be very 
cold before the fire gets things warmed back up.


-Curt

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 9:23:26 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via 
Mercedes  wrote:



Good idea, I will see if I can find one. At the current moment it is 
irrelevant anyway as the power has been off for an hour. Supposedly 
will be restored by 9am. If it comes back in then, fine. If it goes 
past that I will have to fire up the fireplace.


Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 15, 2021, at 11:06 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:

>
> When all else fails, read the instructions?  The basic setup is the 
same for most heat pump systems except for details like TXV vs 
piston/orifice.  But the control electronics (typically on a defrost 
control board) can do anything, like totally shut down below some 
temp.  Might be worth downloading and browsing the owners' manual (or 
might not; some are much worse than others).

>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
> Sent: Monday, February 15, 2021 11:52 PM
> To: Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>>

> Cc: Kaleb Striplin mailto:ka...@striplin.net>>
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question
>
> Sounds like the unit just kicked back on. Guess we shall see how the 
night goes.

>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 10:44 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:

>>
>> I will be damned if it isn’t shut off again. Can say for sure 
about last time but this time code is for low pressure switch open, 
not the same low pressure lockout as before. Don’t see any loose or 
damaged wires to any pressure switches. Jumping the pins didn’t reset 
it either. Guess it will be expensive aux heat tonight.

>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 10:23 PM, Kaleb Striplin <mailto:ka...@striplin.net>> wrote:

>>>
>>> Just noticed outside unit was shut off again. Coils had no frost 
on them at all but it was in low pressure lockout. Reset it and forced 
a defrost away way. It’s down to -4 at the moment. I wonder if it’s 
just too damn cold for it and pressure is dropping, or if it really is 
low on charge. If so, can these things even be charged in the winter? 
Or do they have to be done during the warmer months? Btw supposed to 
get down to -14 tonight.

>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 5:23 PM, Kaleb Striplin <mailto:ka...@striplin.net>> wrote:

>>>>
>>>> Checked it a little while ago and the coils are clear.
>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/15/2021 3:22 PM, Kaleb Striplin wrote:
>>>>> It’s been running all day without issue. I can’t say I have 
noticed if it’s ran a defrost cycle or not. I think here shortly I 
will go out and look at the coils and see if they are clear or have 
started frosting up again.

>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 2:17 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com>> wrote:

>>>>>>
>>>>>> Probably, given the outside temps and state of charge, the gas 
pressure going into the compressor gets too low if ice prevents the 
coils from abs

Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-16 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
 Wrong attitude, it takes time for the stove to get warm, it takes time to warm 
up the house. The time to start the fire is immediately after the power goes 
out. If it comes back on quickly then fine, let the fire go out. If you wait 
until you're cold you're going to be very cold before the fire gets things 
warmed back up.
-Curt

On Tuesday, February 16, 2021, 9:23:26 AM EST, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:  
 
 Good idea, I will see if I can find one. At the current moment it is 
irrelevant anyway as the power has been off for an hour. Supposedly will be 
restored by 9am. If it comes back in then, fine. If it goes past that I will 
have to fire up the fireplace. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 15, 2021, at 11:06 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> When all else fails, read the instructions?  The basic setup is the same for 
> most heat pump systems except for details like TXV vs piston/orifice.  But 
> the control electronics (typically on a defrost control board) can do 
> anything, like totally shut down below some temp.  Might be worth downloading 
> and browsing the owners' manual (or might not; some are much worse than 
> others).
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
> Sent: Monday, February 15, 2021 11:52 PM
> To: Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
> Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question
> 
> Sounds like the unit just kicked back on. Guess we shall see how the night 
> goes. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 10:44 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I will be damned if it isn’t shut off again. Can say for sure about last 
>> time but this time code is for low pressure switch open, not the same low 
>> pressure lockout as before. Don’t see any loose or damaged wires to any 
>> pressure switches. Jumping the pins didn’t reset it either. Guess it will be 
>> expensive aux heat tonight. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 10:23 PM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Just noticed outside unit was shut off again. Coils had no frost on them 
>>> at all but it was in low pressure lockout. Reset it and forced a defrost 
>>> away way. It’s down to -4 at the moment. I wonder if it’s just too damn 
>>> cold for it and pressure is dropping, or if it really is low on charge. If 
>>> so, can these things even be charged in the winter? Or do they have to be 
>>> done during the warmer months? Btw supposed to get down to -14 tonight. 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 5:23 PM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Checked it a little while ago and the coils are clear.
>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2/15/2021 3:22 PM, Kaleb Striplin wrote:
>>>>> It’s been running all day without issue. I can’t say I have noticed if 
>>>>> it’s ran a defrost cycle or not. I think here shortly I will go out and 
>>>>> look at the coils and see if they are clear or have started frosting up 
>>>>> again.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 2:17 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Probably, given the outside temps and state of charge, the gas pressure 
>>>>>> going into the compressor gets too low if ice prevents the coils from 
>>>>>> absorbing enough heat to raise the pressure (from that very cold air).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 15, 2021 10:31 AM
>>>>>> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
>>>>>> Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Well I went out and checked it.  When I looked at in there was no frost 
>>>>>> on the coils that I could see in the center part.  I pulled the cover 
>>>>>> and sure enough it was blinking a low pressure lockout. With the side 
>>>>>> cover off I could see some frost on the outside of the coils, not a 
>>>>>> whole lot though.  I shorted the test pins to reset it and it kicked 
>>>>>> back on.  I shorted them again to force a defrost.  Defrost ran for 
>>>>>> about 5-10 minutes and once frost was clear it kicked back into heat 
>>>>>> mode.
>>>>>

Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-16 Thread Floyd Thursby via Mercedes

haha I knew that would get a rise.

It was close to 70F here last night when the tstorms rolled through, 
this morning maybe high 50s so far and sunny for the first time in like 
10 days. And of course the dogs have no interest in going outside, the 
last few days in the rain they couldn't wait to go out and were like 
toddlers cooped up inside.  This morning they just want to be layabouts.


--FT

On 2/16/21 9:42 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:

You are an asshole.

Sent from my iPhone


On Feb 16, 2021, at 8:36 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
wrote:

I have the sliding doors open to the lanai and it’s about 70 in the house. No 
fires. Plenty of electricity.

-D


On Feb 16, 2021, at 9:27 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
 wrote:

Well the blackout appears to have rolled our way. It went out around 7 and the 
text notification from PSO says estimated to be back on at 9.

It’s -9 out right now and down to 63 in the house (I normally keep it at 68.

Sent from my iPhone


On Feb 15, 2021, at 11:38 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  wrote:

As Allen said, when there's no heat in the air, it can't pump any, and is
probably smart enough not to try. If the aux heat strips are working, then
it's doing what it's supposed to do. Leave it alone and get some sleep (if
the power stays on).
OG is threatening rolling two hour blackouts if demand doesn't go down.
With the temp dropping below -12°F tonight, I don't see that happening.


On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 10:44 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

I think you're below the temps where a ambient-air heat pump really does
anything at all. But as I said earlier I'm not speaking from experience.

I'd fire up the wood stove if it were me.

Allan


Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes  writes:


Just noticed outside unit was shut off again. Coils had no frost on them

at all but it was in low pressure lockout. Reset it and forced a defrost
away way. It’s down to -4 at the moment. I wonder if it’s just too damn
cold for it and pressure is dropping, or if it really is low on charge. If
so, can these things even be charged in the winter? Or do they have to be
done during the warmer months? Btw supposed to get down to -14 tonight.

Sent from my iPhone


On Feb 15, 2021, at 5:23 PM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:

Checked it a little while ago and the coils are clear.


On 2/15/2021 3:22 PM, Kaleb Striplin wrote:
It’s been running all day without issue. I can’t say I have noticed if

it’s ran a defrost cycle or not. I think here shortly I will go out and
look at the coils and see if they are clear or have started frosting up
again.

Sent from my iPhone


On Feb 15, 2021, at 2:17 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <

mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

Probably, given the outside temps and state of charge, the gas

pressure going into the compressor gets too low if ice prevents the coils
from absorbing enough heat to raise the pressure (from that very cold air).

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2021 10:31 AM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

Well I went out and checked it.  When I looked at in there was no

frost on the coils that I could see in the center part.  I pulled the cover
and sure enough it was blinking a low pressure lockout. With the side cover
off I could see some frost on the outside of the coils, not a whole lot
though.  I shorted the test pins to reset it and it kicked back on.  I
shorted them again to force a defrost.  Defrost ran for about 5-10 minutes
and once frost was clear it kicked back into heat mode.

Since replacing the defrost board with attached sensor last year, I

have not had a problem sense.  Why the heck did it happen again?  I know it
has a temp sensor for the coils.  Do these work by going into a defrost
cycle on a timed basis if the temp sensor is below a certain temp?  Or do
they sense the coils are freezing up and enter defrost when needed (not on
a timed scheduled).

 From what I recall, some old systems did not have a temp sensor and

just went into defrost every so often.  I think some systems sense when it
needs to be done.  Others I think are still timed but only do it when temp
is below a certain point.  This is a 2008 Rheem running on 410 so I am not
sure.  If mine runs on a timer only when temp gets low maybe it is so cold
that it simply did not reach its run time to defrost soon enough before it
started frosting up, or perhaps it is sucking in blowing snow which caused
it to frost up faster?

On 2/15/2021 9:03 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
It is now -3 outside, not sure how low it got last night. Anyway,

heat

pump has been running pretty much non stop for the last few days with
the aux heat kicking on occasionally. Yesterday afternoon aux heat

was

on quite a bit as it never got over 4 yesterday.  This morning when I
woke up outside unit was running as normal.  A little while la

Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-16 Thread Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
You are an asshole. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 8:36 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> I have the sliding doors open to the lanai and it’s about 70 in the house. 
> No fires. Plenty of electricity.
> 
> -D
> 
>> On Feb 16, 2021, at 9:27 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Well the blackout appears to have rolled our way. It went out around 7 and 
>> the text notification from PSO says estimated to be back on at 9. 
>> 
>> It’s -9 out right now and down to 63 in the house (I normally keep it at 68. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 11:38 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  
>>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> As Allen said, when there's no heat in the air, it can't pump any, and is
>>> probably smart enough not to try. If the aux heat strips are working, then
>>> it's doing what it's supposed to do. Leave it alone and get some sleep (if
>>> the power stays on).
>>> OG is threatening rolling two hour blackouts if demand doesn't go down.
>>> With the temp dropping below -12°F tonight, I don't see that happening.
>>> 
>>>> On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 10:44 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
>>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I think you're below the temps where a ambient-air heat pump really does
>>>> anything at all. But as I said earlier I'm not speaking from experience.
>>>> 
>>>> I'd fire up the wood stove if it were me.
>>>> 
>>>> Allan
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes  writes:
>>>> 
>>>>> Just noticed outside unit was shut off again. Coils had no frost on them
>>>> at all but it was in low pressure lockout. Reset it and forced a defrost
>>>> away way. It’s down to -4 at the moment. I wonder if it’s just too damn
>>>> cold for it and pressure is dropping, or if it really is low on charge. If
>>>> so, can these things even be charged in the winter? Or do they have to be
>>>> done during the warmer months? Btw supposed to get down to -14 tonight.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 5:23 PM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Checked it a little while ago and the coils are clear.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 2/15/2021 3:22 PM, Kaleb Striplin wrote:
>>>>>>> It’s been running all day without issue. I can’t say I have noticed if
>>>> it’s ran a defrost cycle or not. I think here shortly I will go out and
>>>> look at the coils and see if they are clear or have started frosting up
>>>> again.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 2:17 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
>>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Probably, given the outside temps and state of charge, the gas
>>>> pressure going into the compressor gets too low if ice prevents the coils
>>>> from absorbing enough heat to raise the pressure (from that very cold air).
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>>>> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 15, 2021 10:31 AM
>>>>>>>> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
>>>>>>>> Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Well I went out and checked it.  When I looked at in there was no
>>>> frost on the coils that I could see in the center part.  I pulled the cover
>>>> and sure enough it was blinking a low pressure lockout. With the side cover
>>>> off I could see some frost on the outside of the coils, not a whole lot
>>>> though.  I shorted the test pins to reset it and it kicked back on.  I
>>>> shorted them again to force a defrost.  Defrost ran for about 5-10 minutes
>>>> and once frost was clear it kicked back into heat mode.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Since replacing the defrost board with attached sensor last year, I
>>>> have not had a problem sense.  Why the heck did it happen again?  I know it
>>>> has a temp sensor for the coils.  Do these work by g

Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-16 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
I have the sliding doors open to the lanai and it’s about 70 in the house. No 
fires. Plenty of electricity.

-D

> On Feb 16, 2021, at 9:27 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Well the blackout appears to have rolled our way. It went out around 7 and 
> the text notification from PSO says estimated to be back on at 9. 
> 
> It’s -9 out right now and down to 63 in the house (I normally keep it at 68. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 11:38 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> As Allen said, when there's no heat in the air, it can't pump any, and is
>> probably smart enough not to try. If the aux heat strips are working, then
>> it's doing what it's supposed to do. Leave it alone and get some sleep (if
>> the power stays on).
>> OG is threatening rolling two hour blackouts if demand doesn't go down.
>> With the temp dropping below -12°F tonight, I don't see that happening.
>> 
>>> On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 10:44 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I think you're below the temps where a ambient-air heat pump really does
>>> anything at all. But as I said earlier I'm not speaking from experience.
>>> 
>>> I'd fire up the wood stove if it were me.
>>> 
>>> Allan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes  writes:
>>> 
>>>> Just noticed outside unit was shut off again. Coils had no frost on them
>>> at all but it was in low pressure lockout. Reset it and forced a defrost
>>> away way. It’s down to -4 at the moment. I wonder if it’s just too damn
>>> cold for it and pressure is dropping, or if it really is low on charge. If
>>> so, can these things even be charged in the winter? Or do they have to be
>>> done during the warmer months? Btw supposed to get down to -14 tonight.
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 5:23 PM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Checked it a little while ago and the coils are clear.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2/15/2021 3:22 PM, Kaleb Striplin wrote:
>>>>>> It’s been running all day without issue. I can’t say I have noticed if
>>> it’s ran a defrost cycle or not. I think here shortly I will go out and
>>> look at the coils and see if they are clear or have started frosting up
>>> again.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 2:17 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
>>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Probably, given the outside temps and state of charge, the gas
>>> pressure going into the compressor gets too low if ice prevents the coils
>>> from absorbing enough heat to raise the pressure (from that very cold air).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>>> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 15, 2021 10:31 AM
>>>>>>> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
>>>>>>> Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Well I went out and checked it.  When I looked at in there was no
>>> frost on the coils that I could see in the center part.  I pulled the cover
>>> and sure enough it was blinking a low pressure lockout. With the side cover
>>> off I could see some frost on the outside of the coils, not a whole lot
>>> though.  I shorted the test pins to reset it and it kicked back on.  I
>>> shorted them again to force a defrost.  Defrost ran for about 5-10 minutes
>>> and once frost was clear it kicked back into heat mode.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Since replacing the defrost board with attached sensor last year, I
>>> have not had a problem sense.  Why the heck did it happen again?  I know it
>>> has a temp sensor for the coils.  Do these work by going into a defrost
>>> cycle on a timed basis if the temp sensor is below a certain temp?  Or do
>>> they sense the coils are freezing up and enter defrost when needed (not on
>>> a timed scheduled).
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> From what I recall, some old systems did not have a temp sensor and
>>> just went into defrost every so often.  I think some systems sense when it
>>> needs to be done

Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-16 Thread Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
Well the blackout appears to have rolled our way. It went out around 7 and the 
text notification from PSO says estimated to be back on at 9. 

It’s -9 out right now and down to 63 in the house (I normally keep it at 68. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 15, 2021, at 11:38 PM, OK Don via Mercedes  
> wrote:
> 
> As Allen said, when there's no heat in the air, it can't pump any, and is
> probably smart enough not to try. If the aux heat strips are working, then
> it's doing what it's supposed to do. Leave it alone and get some sleep (if
> the power stays on).
> OG is threatening rolling two hour blackouts if demand doesn't go down.
> With the temp dropping below -12°F tonight, I don't see that happening.
> 
>> On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 10:44 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I think you're below the temps where a ambient-air heat pump really does
>> anything at all. But as I said earlier I'm not speaking from experience.
>> 
>> I'd fire up the wood stove if it were me.
>> 
>> Allan
>> 
>> 
>> Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes  writes:
>> 
>>> Just noticed outside unit was shut off again. Coils had no frost on them
>> at all but it was in low pressure lockout. Reset it and forced a defrost
>> away way. It’s down to -4 at the moment. I wonder if it’s just too damn
>> cold for it and pressure is dropping, or if it really is low on charge. If
>> so, can these things even be charged in the winter? Or do they have to be
>> done during the warmer months? Btw supposed to get down to -14 tonight.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 5:23 PM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Checked it a little while ago and the coils are clear.
>>>> 
>>>>> On 2/15/2021 3:22 PM, Kaleb Striplin wrote:
>>>>> It’s been running all day without issue. I can’t say I have noticed if
>> it’s ran a defrost cycle or not. I think here shortly I will go out and
>> look at the coils and see if they are clear or have started frosting up
>> again.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 2:17 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
>> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Probably, given the outside temps and state of charge, the gas
>> pressure going into the compressor gets too low if ice prevents the coils
>> from absorbing enough heat to raise the pressure (from that very cold air).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 15, 2021 10:31 AM
>>>>>> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
>>>>>> Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Well I went out and checked it.  When I looked at in there was no
>> frost on the coils that I could see in the center part.  I pulled the cover
>> and sure enough it was blinking a low pressure lockout. With the side cover
>> off I could see some frost on the outside of the coils, not a whole lot
>> though.  I shorted the test pins to reset it and it kicked back on.  I
>> shorted them again to force a defrost.  Defrost ran for about 5-10 minutes
>> and once frost was clear it kicked back into heat mode.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Since replacing the defrost board with attached sensor last year, I
>> have not had a problem sense.  Why the heck did it happen again?  I know it
>> has a temp sensor for the coils.  Do these work by going into a defrost
>> cycle on a timed basis if the temp sensor is below a certain temp?  Or do
>> they sense the coils are freezing up and enter defrost when needed (not on
>> a timed scheduled).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> From what I recall, some old systems did not have a temp sensor and
>> just went into defrost every so often.  I think some systems sense when it
>> needs to be done.  Others I think are still timed but only do it when temp
>> is below a certain point.  This is a 2008 Rheem running on 410 so I am not
>> sure.  If mine runs on a timer only when temp gets low maybe it is so cold
>> that it simply did not reach its run time to defrost soon enough before it
>> started frosting up, or perhaps it is sucking in blowing snow which caused
>> it to frost up faster?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 2/15/2021 9:03 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:

Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-16 Thread Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
Good idea, I will see if I can find one. At the current moment it is irrelevant 
anyway as the power has been off for an hour. Supposedly will be restored by 
9am. If it comes back in then, fine. If it goes past that I will have to fire 
up the fireplace. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 15, 2021, at 11:06 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> When all else fails, read the instructions?  The basic setup is the same for 
> most heat pump systems except for details like TXV vs piston/orifice.  But 
> the control electronics (typically on a defrost control board) can do 
> anything, like totally shut down below some temp.  Might be worth downloading 
> and browsing the owners' manual (or might not; some are much worse than 
> others).
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
> Sent: Monday, February 15, 2021 11:52 PM
> To: Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
> Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question
> 
> Sounds like the unit just kicked back on. Guess we shall see how the night 
> goes. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 10:44 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> I will be damned if it isn’t shut off again. Can say for sure about last 
>> time but this time code is for low pressure switch open, not the same low 
>> pressure lockout as before. Don’t see any loose or damaged wires to any 
>> pressure switches. Jumping the pins didn’t reset it either. Guess it will be 
>> expensive aux heat tonight. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 10:23 PM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Just noticed outside unit was shut off again. Coils had no frost on them 
>>> at all but it was in low pressure lockout. Reset it and forced a defrost 
>>> away way. It’s down to -4 at the moment. I wonder if it’s just too damn 
>>> cold for it and pressure is dropping, or if it really is low on charge. If 
>>> so, can these things even be charged in the winter? Or do they have to be 
>>> done during the warmer months? Btw supposed to get down to -14 tonight. 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 5:23 PM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Checked it a little while ago and the coils are clear.
>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2/15/2021 3:22 PM, Kaleb Striplin wrote:
>>>>> It’s been running all day without issue. I can’t say I have noticed if 
>>>>> it’s ran a defrost cycle or not. I think here shortly I will go out and 
>>>>> look at the coils and see if they are clear or have started frosting up 
>>>>> again.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 2:17 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Probably, given the outside temps and state of charge, the gas pressure 
>>>>>> going into the compressor gets too low if ice prevents the coils from 
>>>>>> absorbing enough heat to raise the pressure (from that very cold air).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 15, 2021 10:31 AM
>>>>>> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
>>>>>> Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Well I went out and checked it.  When I looked at in there was no frost 
>>>>>> on the coils that I could see in the center part.  I pulled the cover 
>>>>>> and sure enough it was blinking a low pressure lockout. With the side 
>>>>>> cover off I could see some frost on the outside of the coils, not a 
>>>>>> whole lot though.  I shorted the test pins to reset it and it kicked 
>>>>>> back on.  I shorted them again to force a defrost.  Defrost ran for 
>>>>>> about 5-10 minutes and once frost was clear it kicked back into heat 
>>>>>> mode.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Since replacing the defrost board with attached sensor last year, I have 
>>>>>> not had a problem sense.  Why the heck did it happen again?  I know it 
>>>>>> has a temp sensor for the coils.  Do these work by going into a defrost 
>>>>>> cycle on a timed basis if the temp sensor is below a certain temp?  Or 
>>>>>> do 

Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-16 Thread Max Dillon via Mercedes
That's what I'd be doing, light the fire and throw an extra blanket on the bed.

Feb 15, 2021 11:44:21 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes :

> I think you're below the temps where a ambient-air heat pump really does
> anything at all. But as I said earlier I'm not speaking from experience.
>
> I'd fire up the wood stove if it were me.
>
> Allan
>

Max Dillon
Charleston SC


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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-15 Thread OK Don via Mercedes
As Allen said, when there's no heat in the air, it can't pump any, and is
probably smart enough not to try. If the aux heat strips are working, then
it's doing what it's supposed to do. Leave it alone and get some sleep (if
the power stays on).
OG is threatening rolling two hour blackouts if demand doesn't go down.
With the temp dropping below -12°F tonight, I don't see that happening.

On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 10:44 PM Allan Streib via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> I think you're below the temps where a ambient-air heat pump really does
> anything at all. But as I said earlier I'm not speaking from experience.
>
> I'd fire up the wood stove if it were me.
>
> Allan
>
>
> Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes  writes:
>
> > Just noticed outside unit was shut off again. Coils had no frost on them
> at all but it was in low pressure lockout. Reset it and forced a defrost
> away way. It’s down to -4 at the moment. I wonder if it’s just too damn
> cold for it and pressure is dropping, or if it really is low on charge. If
> so, can these things even be charged in the winter? Or do they have to be
> done during the warmer months? Btw supposed to get down to -14 tonight.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Feb 15, 2021, at 5:23 PM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:
> >>
> >> Checked it a little while ago and the coils are clear.
> >>
> >>> On 2/15/2021 3:22 PM, Kaleb Striplin wrote:
> >>> It’s been running all day without issue. I can’t say I have noticed if
> it’s ran a defrost cycle or not. I think here shortly I will go out and
> look at the coils and see if they are clear or have started frosting up
> again.
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>>>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 2:17 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes <
> mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Probably, given the outside temps and state of charge, the gas
> pressure going into the compressor gets too low if ice prevents the coils
> from absorbing enough heat to raise the pressure (from that very cold air).
> >>>>
> >>>> -Original Message-
> >>>> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
> >>>> Sent: Monday, February 15, 2021 10:31 AM
> >>>> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> >>>> Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
> >>>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question
> >>>>
> >>>> Well I went out and checked it.  When I looked at in there was no
> frost on the coils that I could see in the center part.  I pulled the cover
> and sure enough it was blinking a low pressure lockout. With the side cover
> off I could see some frost on the outside of the coils, not a whole lot
> though.  I shorted the test pins to reset it and it kicked back on.  I
> shorted them again to force a defrost.  Defrost ran for about 5-10 minutes
> and once frost was clear it kicked back into heat mode.
> >>>>
> >>>> Since replacing the defrost board with attached sensor last year, I
> have not had a problem sense.  Why the heck did it happen again?  I know it
> has a temp sensor for the coils.  Do these work by going into a defrost
> cycle on a timed basis if the temp sensor is below a certain temp?  Or do
> they sense the coils are freezing up and enter defrost when needed (not on
> a timed scheduled).
> >>>>
> >>>> From what I recall, some old systems did not have a temp sensor and
> just went into defrost every so often.  I think some systems sense when it
> needs to be done.  Others I think are still timed but only do it when temp
> is below a certain point.  This is a 2008 Rheem running on 410 so I am not
> sure.  If mine runs on a timer only when temp gets low maybe it is so cold
> that it simply did not reach its run time to defrost soon enough before it
> started frosting up, or perhaps it is sucking in blowing snow which caused
> it to frost up faster?
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 2/15/2021 9:03 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> >>>>> It is now -3 outside, not sure how low it got last night. Anyway,
> heat
> >>>>> pump has been running pretty much non stop for the last few days with
> >>>>> the aux heat kicking on occasionally. Yesterday afternoon aux heat
> was
> >>>>> on quite a bit as it never got over 4 yesterday.  This morning when I
> >>>>> woke up outside unit was running as normal.  A little while later I
> >>>>> happen to look out and it is shut down. Normally when it goes into
> >>>>> defrost it will shut down for a momen

Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-15 Thread Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
When all else fails, read the instructions?  The basic setup is the same for 
most heat pump systems except for details like TXV vs piston/orifice.  But the 
control electronics (typically on a defrost control board) can do anything, 
like totally shut down below some temp.  Might be worth downloading and 
browsing the owners' manual (or might not; some are much worse than others).

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2021 11:52 PM
To: Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

Sounds like the unit just kicked back on. Guess we shall see how the night 
goes. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 15, 2021, at 10:44 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I will be damned if it isn’t shut off again. Can say for sure about last 
> time but this time code is for low pressure switch open, not the same low 
> pressure lockout as before. Don’t see any loose or damaged wires to any 
> pressure switches. Jumping the pins didn’t reset it either. Guess it will be 
> expensive aux heat tonight. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 10:23 PM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:
>> 
>> Just noticed outside unit was shut off again. Coils had no frost on them at 
>> all but it was in low pressure lockout. Reset it and forced a defrost away 
>> way. It’s down to -4 at the moment. I wonder if it’s just too damn cold for 
>> it and pressure is dropping, or if it really is low on charge. If so, can 
>> these things even be charged in the winter? Or do they have to be done 
>> during the warmer months? Btw supposed to get down to -14 tonight. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 5:23 PM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Checked it a little while ago and the coils are clear.
>>> 
>>>>> On 2/15/2021 3:22 PM, Kaleb Striplin wrote:
>>>> It’s been running all day without issue. I can’t say I have noticed if 
>>>> it’s ran a defrost cycle or not. I think here shortly I will go out and 
>>>> look at the coils and see if they are clear or have started frosting up 
>>>> again.
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 2:17 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Probably, given the outside temps and state of charge, the gas pressure 
>>>>> going into the compressor gets too low if ice prevents the coils from 
>>>>> absorbing enough heat to raise the pressure (from that very cold air).
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 15, 2021 10:31 AM
>>>>> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
>>>>> Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
>>>>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question
>>>>> 
>>>>> Well I went out and checked it.  When I looked at in there was no frost 
>>>>> on the coils that I could see in the center part.  I pulled the cover and 
>>>>> sure enough it was blinking a low pressure lockout. With the side cover 
>>>>> off I could see some frost on the outside of the coils, not a whole lot 
>>>>> though.  I shorted the test pins to reset it and it kicked back on.  I 
>>>>> shorted them again to force a defrost.  Defrost ran for about 5-10 
>>>>> minutes and once frost was clear it kicked back into heat mode.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Since replacing the defrost board with attached sensor last year, I have 
>>>>> not had a problem sense.  Why the heck did it happen again?  I know it 
>>>>> has a temp sensor for the coils.  Do these work by going into a defrost 
>>>>> cycle on a timed basis if the temp sensor is below a certain temp?  Or do 
>>>>> they sense the coils are freezing up and enter defrost when needed (not 
>>>>> on a timed scheduled).
>>>>> 
>>>>> From what I recall, some old systems did not have a temp sensor and just 
>>>>> went into defrost every so often.  I think some systems sense when it 
>>>>> needs to be done.  Others I think are still timed but only do it when 
>>>>> temp is below a certain point.  This is a 2008 Rheem running on 410 so I 
>>>>> am not sure.  If mine runs on a timer only when temp gets low maybe it is 
>>>>> so cold that it simply did not reach its run time to defrost soon enough 
>>>>> before it s

Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-15 Thread Buggered Benzmail via Mercedes
Yeah a heat pump doesn’t have much to work with at those temps

--FT
Sent from iPhone

> On Feb 15, 2021, at 11:44 PM, Allan Streib via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I think you're below the temps where a ambient-air heat pump really does
> anything at all. But as I said earlier I'm not speaking from experience.
> 
> I'd fire up the wood stove if it were me.
> 
> Allan
> 
> 
> Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes  writes:
> 
>> Just noticed outside unit was shut off again. Coils had no frost on them at 
>> all but it was in low pressure lockout. Reset it and forced a defrost away 
>> way. It’s down to -4 at the moment. I wonder if it’s just too damn cold for 
>> it and pressure is dropping, or if it really is low on charge. If so, can 
>> these things even be charged in the winter? Or do they have to be done 
>> during the warmer months? Btw supposed to get down to -14 tonight. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 5:23 PM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Checked it a little while ago and the coils are clear.
>>> 
>>>> On 2/15/2021 3:22 PM, Kaleb Striplin wrote:
>>>> It’s been running all day without issue. I can’t say I have noticed if 
>>>> it’s ran a defrost cycle or not. I think here shortly I will go out and 
>>>> look at the coils and see if they are clear or have started frosting up 
>>>> again.
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 2:17 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Probably, given the outside temps and state of charge, the gas pressure 
>>>>> going into the compressor gets too low if ice prevents the coils from 
>>>>> absorbing enough heat to raise the pressure (from that very cold air).
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 15, 2021 10:31 AM
>>>>> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
>>>>> Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
>>>>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question
>>>>> 
>>>>> Well I went out and checked it.  When I looked at in there was no frost 
>>>>> on the coils that I could see in the center part.  I pulled the cover and 
>>>>> sure enough it was blinking a low pressure lockout. With the side cover 
>>>>> off I could see some frost on the outside of the coils, not a whole lot 
>>>>> though.  I shorted the test pins to reset it and it kicked back on.  I 
>>>>> shorted them again to force a defrost.  Defrost ran for about 5-10 
>>>>> minutes and once frost was clear it kicked back into heat mode.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Since replacing the defrost board with attached sensor last year, I have 
>>>>> not had a problem sense.  Why the heck did it happen again?  I know it 
>>>>> has a temp sensor for the coils.  Do these work by going into a defrost 
>>>>> cycle on a timed basis if the temp sensor is below a certain temp?  Or do 
>>>>> they sense the coils are freezing up and enter defrost when needed (not 
>>>>> on a timed scheduled).
>>>>> 
>>>>> From what I recall, some old systems did not have a temp sensor and just 
>>>>> went into defrost every so often.  I think some systems sense when it 
>>>>> needs to be done.  Others I think are still timed but only do it when 
>>>>> temp is below a certain point.  This is a 2008 Rheem running on 410 so I 
>>>>> am not sure.  If mine runs on a timer only when temp gets low maybe it is 
>>>>> so cold that it simply did not reach its run time to defrost soon enough 
>>>>> before it started frosting up, or perhaps it is sucking in blowing snow 
>>>>> which caused it to frost up faster?
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2/15/2021 9:03 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>>>>>> It is now -3 outside, not sure how low it got last night. Anyway, heat
>>>>>> pump has been running pretty much non stop for the last few days with
>>>>>> the aux heat kicking on occasionally. Yesterday afternoon aux heat was
>>>>>> on quite a bit as it never got over 4 yesterday.  This morning when I
>>>>>> woke up outside unit was running as normal.  A little while later I
>>>>>> happen to look out and it is shut down. Normally when it goes into
>>>>

Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-15 Thread Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
Sounds like the unit just kicked back on. Guess we shall see how the night 
goes. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 15, 2021, at 10:44 PM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> I will be damned if it isn’t shut off again. Can say for sure about last 
> time but this time code is for low pressure switch open, not the same low 
> pressure lockout as before. Don’t see any loose or damaged wires to any 
> pressure switches. Jumping the pins didn’t reset it either. Guess it will be 
> expensive aux heat tonight. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 10:23 PM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:
>> 
>> Just noticed outside unit was shut off again. Coils had no frost on them at 
>> all but it was in low pressure lockout. Reset it and forced a defrost away 
>> way. It’s down to -4 at the moment. I wonder if it’s just too damn cold for 
>> it and pressure is dropping, or if it really is low on charge. If so, can 
>> these things even be charged in the winter? Or do they have to be done 
>> during the warmer months? Btw supposed to get down to -14 tonight. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 5:23 PM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Checked it a little while ago and the coils are clear.
>>> 
>>>>> On 2/15/2021 3:22 PM, Kaleb Striplin wrote:
>>>> It’s been running all day without issue. I can’t say I have noticed if 
>>>> it’s ran a defrost cycle or not. I think here shortly I will go out and 
>>>> look at the coils and see if they are clear or have started frosting up 
>>>> again.
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 2:17 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Probably, given the outside temps and state of charge, the gas pressure 
>>>>> going into the compressor gets too low if ice prevents the coils from 
>>>>> absorbing enough heat to raise the pressure (from that very cold air).
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
>>>>> Sent: Monday, February 15, 2021 10:31 AM
>>>>> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
>>>>> Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
>>>>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question
>>>>> 
>>>>> Well I went out and checked it.  When I looked at in there was no frost 
>>>>> on the coils that I could see in the center part.  I pulled the cover and 
>>>>> sure enough it was blinking a low pressure lockout. With the side cover 
>>>>> off I could see some frost on the outside of the coils, not a whole lot 
>>>>> though.  I shorted the test pins to reset it and it kicked back on.  I 
>>>>> shorted them again to force a defrost.  Defrost ran for about 5-10 
>>>>> minutes and once frost was clear it kicked back into heat mode.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Since replacing the defrost board with attached sensor last year, I have 
>>>>> not had a problem sense.  Why the heck did it happen again?  I know it 
>>>>> has a temp sensor for the coils.  Do these work by going into a defrost 
>>>>> cycle on a timed basis if the temp sensor is below a certain temp?  Or do 
>>>>> they sense the coils are freezing up and enter defrost when needed (not 
>>>>> on a timed scheduled).
>>>>> 
>>>>> From what I recall, some old systems did not have a temp sensor and just 
>>>>> went into defrost every so often.  I think some systems sense when it 
>>>>> needs to be done.  Others I think are still timed but only do it when 
>>>>> temp is below a certain point.  This is a 2008 Rheem running on 410 so I 
>>>>> am not sure.  If mine runs on a timer only when temp gets low maybe it is 
>>>>> so cold that it simply did not reach its run time to defrost soon enough 
>>>>> before it started frosting up, or perhaps it is sucking in blowing snow 
>>>>> which caused it to frost up faster?
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2/15/2021 9:03 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>>>>>> It is now -3 outside, not sure how low it got last night. Anyway, heat
>>>>>> pump has been running pretty much non stop for the last few days with
>>>>>> the aux heat kicking on occasionally. Yesterday afternoon aux heat was
>>>>>> on quite a bit as it never got over 4 yesterday.  This mornin

Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-15 Thread Allan Streib via Mercedes
I think you're below the temps where a ambient-air heat pump really does
anything at all. But as I said earlier I'm not speaking from experience.

I'd fire up the wood stove if it were me.

Allan


Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes  writes:

> Just noticed outside unit was shut off again. Coils had no frost on them at 
> all but it was in low pressure lockout. Reset it and forced a defrost away 
> way. It’s down to -4 at the moment. I wonder if it’s just too damn cold for 
> it and pressure is dropping, or if it really is low on charge. If so, can 
> these things even be charged in the winter? Or do they have to be done during 
> the warmer months? Btw supposed to get down to -14 tonight. 
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 5:23 PM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:
>> 
>> Checked it a little while ago and the coils are clear.
>> 
>>> On 2/15/2021 3:22 PM, Kaleb Striplin wrote:
>>> It’s been running all day without issue. I can’t say I have noticed if it’s 
>>> ran a defrost cycle or not. I think here shortly I will go out and look at 
>>> the coils and see if they are clear or have started frosting up again.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 2:17 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Probably, given the outside temps and state of charge, the gas pressure 
>>>> going into the compressor gets too low if ice prevents the coils from 
>>>> absorbing enough heat to raise the pressure (from that very cold air).
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-
>>>> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 15, 2021 10:31 AM
>>>> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
>>>> Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
>>>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question
>>>> 
>>>> Well I went out and checked it.  When I looked at in there was no frost on 
>>>> the coils that I could see in the center part.  I pulled the cover and 
>>>> sure enough it was blinking a low pressure lockout. With the side cover 
>>>> off I could see some frost on the outside of the coils, not a whole lot 
>>>> though.  I shorted the test pins to reset it and it kicked back on.  I 
>>>> shorted them again to force a defrost.  Defrost ran for about 5-10 minutes 
>>>> and once frost was clear it kicked back into heat mode.
>>>> 
>>>> Since replacing the defrost board with attached sensor last year, I have 
>>>> not had a problem sense.  Why the heck did it happen again?  I know it has 
>>>> a temp sensor for the coils.  Do these work by going into a defrost cycle 
>>>> on a timed basis if the temp sensor is below a certain temp?  Or do they 
>>>> sense the coils are freezing up and enter defrost when needed (not on a 
>>>> timed scheduled).
>>>> 
>>>> From what I recall, some old systems did not have a temp sensor and just 
>>>> went into defrost every so often.  I think some systems sense when it 
>>>> needs to be done.  Others I think are still timed but only do it when temp 
>>>> is below a certain point.  This is a 2008 Rheem running on 410 so I am not 
>>>> sure.  If mine runs on a timer only when temp gets low maybe it is so cold 
>>>> that it simply did not reach its run time to defrost soon enough before it 
>>>> started frosting up, or perhaps it is sucking in blowing snow which caused 
>>>> it to frost up faster?
>>>> 
>>>>> On 2/15/2021 9:03 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>>>>> It is now -3 outside, not sure how low it got last night. Anyway, heat
>>>>> pump has been running pretty much non stop for the last few days with
>>>>> the aux heat kicking on occasionally. Yesterday afternoon aux heat was
>>>>> on quite a bit as it never got over 4 yesterday.  This morning when I
>>>>> woke up outside unit was running as normal.  A little while later I
>>>>> happen to look out and it is shut down. Normally when it goes into
>>>>> defrost it will shut down for a moment then fire back up pretty quick.
>>>>> It did not appear to be in a defrost cycle.  I had issues before where
>>>>> the temp sensor on the coils was evidentially bad because when it got
>>>>> below freezing it would seemingly randomly never enter defrost cycle
>>>>> and would frost over, which would then put it in a low pressure
>>>>> lockout. I would have to jump the pins on t

Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-15 Thread Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
I will be damned if it isn’t shut off again. Can say for sure about last time 
but this time code is for low pressure switch open, not the same low pressure 
lockout as before. Don’t see any loose or damaged wires to any pressure 
switches. Jumping the pins didn’t reset it either. Guess it will be expensive 
aux heat tonight. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 15, 2021, at 10:23 PM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:
> 
> Just noticed outside unit was shut off again. Coils had no frost on them at 
> all but it was in low pressure lockout. Reset it and forced a defrost away 
> way. It’s down to -4 at the moment. I wonder if it’s just too damn cold for 
> it and pressure is dropping, or if it really is low on charge. If so, can 
> these things even be charged in the winter? Or do they have to be done during 
> the warmer months? Btw supposed to get down to -14 tonight. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 5:23 PM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:
>> 
>> Checked it a little while ago and the coils are clear.
>> 
>>>> On 2/15/2021 3:22 PM, Kaleb Striplin wrote:
>>> It’s been running all day without issue. I can’t say I have noticed if it’s 
>>> ran a defrost cycle or not. I think here shortly I will go out and look at 
>>> the coils and see if they are clear or have started frosting up again.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 2:17 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Probably, given the outside temps and state of charge, the gas pressure 
>>>> going into the compressor gets too low if ice prevents the coils from 
>>>> absorbing enough heat to raise the pressure (from that very cold air).
>>>> 
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 15, 2021 10:31 AM
>>>> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
>>>> Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
>>>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question
>>>> 
>>>> Well I went out and checked it.  When I looked at in there was no frost on 
>>>> the coils that I could see in the center part.  I pulled the cover and 
>>>> sure enough it was blinking a low pressure lockout. With the side cover 
>>>> off I could see some frost on the outside of the coils, not a whole lot 
>>>> though.  I shorted the test pins to reset it and it kicked back on.  I 
>>>> shorted them again to force a defrost.  Defrost ran for about 5-10 minutes 
>>>> and once frost was clear it kicked back into heat mode.
>>>> 
>>>> Since replacing the defrost board with attached sensor last year, I have 
>>>> not had a problem sense.  Why the heck did it happen again?  I know it has 
>>>> a temp sensor for the coils.  Do these work by going into a defrost cycle 
>>>> on a timed basis if the temp sensor is below a certain temp?  Or do they 
>>>> sense the coils are freezing up and enter defrost when needed (not on a 
>>>> timed scheduled).
>>>> 
>>>> From what I recall, some old systems did not have a temp sensor and just 
>>>> went into defrost every so often.  I think some systems sense when it 
>>>> needs to be done.  Others I think are still timed but only do it when temp 
>>>> is below a certain point.  This is a 2008 Rheem running on 410 so I am not 
>>>> sure.  If mine runs on a timer only when temp gets low maybe it is so cold 
>>>> that it simply did not reach its run time to defrost soon enough before it 
>>>> started frosting up, or perhaps it is sucking in blowing snow which caused 
>>>> it to frost up faster?
>>>> 
>>>>> On 2/15/2021 9:03 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>>>>> It is now -3 outside, not sure how low it got last night. Anyway, heat
>>>>> pump has been running pretty much non stop for the last few days with
>>>>> the aux heat kicking on occasionally. Yesterday afternoon aux heat was
>>>>> on quite a bit as it never got over 4 yesterday.  This morning when I
>>>>> woke up outside unit was running as normal.  A little while later I
>>>>> happen to look out and it is shut down. Normally when it goes into
>>>>> defrost it will shut down for a moment then fire back up pretty quick.
>>>>> It did not appear to be in a defrost cycle.  I had issues before where
>>>>> the temp sensor on the coils was evidentially bad because when it got
>>>>> below freezing it would seeming

Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-15 Thread Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
Just noticed outside unit was shut off again. Coils had no frost on them at all 
but it was in low pressure lockout. Reset it and forced a defrost away way. 
It’s down to -4 at the moment. I wonder if it’s just too damn cold for it and 
pressure is dropping, or if it really is low on charge. If so, can these things 
even be charged in the winter? Or do they have to be done during the warmer 
months? Btw supposed to get down to -14 tonight. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 15, 2021, at 5:23 PM, Kaleb Striplin  wrote:
> 
> Checked it a little while ago and the coils are clear.
> 
>> On 2/15/2021 3:22 PM, Kaleb Striplin wrote:
>> It’s been running all day without issue. I can’t say I have noticed if it’s 
>> ran a defrost cycle or not. I think here shortly I will go out and look at 
>> the coils and see if they are clear or have started frosting up again.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Feb 15, 2021, at 2:17 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Probably, given the outside temps and state of charge, the gas pressure 
>>> going into the compressor gets too low if ice prevents the coils from 
>>> absorbing enough heat to raise the pressure (from that very cold air).
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
>>> Sent: Monday, February 15, 2021 10:31 AM
>>> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
>>> Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
>>> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question
>>> 
>>> Well I went out and checked it.  When I looked at in there was no frost on 
>>> the coils that I could see in the center part.  I pulled the cover and sure 
>>> enough it was blinking a low pressure lockout. With the side cover off I 
>>> could see some frost on the outside of the coils, not a whole lot though.  
>>> I shorted the test pins to reset it and it kicked back on.  I shorted them 
>>> again to force a defrost.  Defrost ran for about 5-10 minutes and once 
>>> frost was clear it kicked back into heat mode.
>>> 
>>> Since replacing the defrost board with attached sensor last year, I have 
>>> not had a problem sense.  Why the heck did it happen again?  I know it has 
>>> a temp sensor for the coils.  Do these work by going into a defrost cycle 
>>> on a timed basis if the temp sensor is below a certain temp?  Or do they 
>>> sense the coils are freezing up and enter defrost when needed (not on a 
>>> timed scheduled).
>>> 
>>> From what I recall, some old systems did not have a temp sensor and just 
>>> went into defrost every so often.  I think some systems sense when it needs 
>>> to be done.  Others I think are still timed but only do it when temp is 
>>> below a certain point.  This is a 2008 Rheem running on 410 so I am not 
>>> sure.  If mine runs on a timer only when temp gets low maybe it is so cold 
>>> that it simply did not reach its run time to defrost soon enough before it 
>>> started frosting up, or perhaps it is sucking in blowing snow which caused 
>>> it to frost up faster?
>>> 
>>>> On 2/15/2021 9:03 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>>>> It is now -3 outside, not sure how low it got last night. Anyway, heat
>>>> pump has been running pretty much non stop for the last few days with
>>>> the aux heat kicking on occasionally. Yesterday afternoon aux heat was
>>>> on quite a bit as it never got over 4 yesterday.  This morning when I
>>>> woke up outside unit was running as normal.  A little while later I
>>>> happen to look out and it is shut down. Normally when it goes into
>>>> defrost it will shut down for a moment then fire back up pretty quick.
>>>> It did not appear to be in a defrost cycle.  I had issues before where
>>>> the temp sensor on the coils was evidentially bad because when it got
>>>> below freezing it would seemingly randomly never enter defrost cycle
>>>> and would frost over, which would then put it in a low pressure
>>>> lockout. I would have to jump the pins on the board to reset it and
>>>> force a defrost then it would be fine again for a while.  Last year I
>>>> replaced the defrost board which has the temp sensor hard wired on it.
>>>> Never had a problem since.
>>>> 
>>>> Anyway I was about to throw on a coat and go outside and pull the
>>>> cover and see if the board was flashing an error code and it started
>>>> back up.  It is now about an

Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-15 Thread Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes

Checked it a little while ago and the coils are clear.

On 2/15/2021 3:22 PM, Kaleb Striplin wrote:

It’s been running all day without issue. I can’t say I have noticed if it’s ran 
a defrost cycle or not. I think here shortly I will go out and look at the 
coils and see if they are clear or have started frosting up again.

Sent from my iPhone


On Feb 15, 2021, at 2:17 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes  
wrote:

Probably, given the outside temps and state of charge, the gas pressure going 
into the compressor gets too low if ice prevents the coils from absorbing 
enough heat to raise the pressure (from that very cold air).

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2021 10:31 AM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

Well I went out and checked it.  When I looked at in there was no frost on the 
coils that I could see in the center part.  I pulled the cover and sure enough 
it was blinking a low pressure lockout. With the side cover off I could see 
some frost on the outside of the coils, not a whole lot though.  I shorted the 
test pins to reset it and it kicked back on.  I shorted them again to force a 
defrost.  Defrost ran for about 5-10 minutes and once frost was clear it kicked 
back into heat mode.

Since replacing the defrost board with attached sensor last year, I have not 
had a problem sense.  Why the heck did it happen again?  I know it has a temp 
sensor for the coils.  Do these work by going into a defrost cycle on a timed 
basis if the temp sensor is below a certain temp?  Or do they sense the coils 
are freezing up and enter defrost when needed (not on a timed scheduled).

 From what I recall, some old systems did not have a temp sensor and just went 
into defrost every so often.  I think some systems sense when it needs to be 
done.  Others I think are still timed but only do it when temp is below a 
certain point.  This is a 2008 Rheem running on 410 so I am not sure.  If mine 
runs on a timer only when temp gets low maybe it is so cold that it simply did 
not reach its run time to defrost soon enough before it started frosting up, or 
perhaps it is sucking in blowing snow which caused it to frost up faster?


On 2/15/2021 9:03 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
It is now -3 outside, not sure how low it got last night. Anyway, heat
pump has been running pretty much non stop for the last few days with
the aux heat kicking on occasionally. Yesterday afternoon aux heat was
on quite a bit as it never got over 4 yesterday.  This morning when I
woke up outside unit was running as normal.  A little while later I
happen to look out and it is shut down. Normally when it goes into
defrost it will shut down for a moment then fire back up pretty quick.
It did not appear to be in a defrost cycle.  I had issues before where
the temp sensor on the coils was evidentially bad because when it got
below freezing it would seemingly randomly never enter defrost cycle
and would frost over, which would then put it in a low pressure
lockout. I would have to jump the pins on the board to reset it and
force a defrost then it would be fine again for a while.  Last year I
replaced the defrost board which has the temp sensor hard wired on it.
Never had a problem since.

Anyway I was about to throw on a coat and go outside and pull the
cover and see if the board was flashing an error code and it started
back up.  It is now about an hour later and I notice the outside unit
is not running again.  I am not sure how long it has not been running
but I know its probably be at least 10-15 minutes.  Is there some sort
of reason at these low temps that the outside unit would shut itself
down for a period of time then fire back up?  Does the system
determine that it is so cold outside that the outside unit is not
producing any heat anyway and shuts itself down for a while?  I will
wait a little bit longer and see what happens then go out in the
blowing snow to pull the cover and check the board to see if its
blinking any codes.


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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-15 Thread Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
It’s been running all day without issue. I can’t say I have noticed if it’s ran 
a defrost cycle or not. I think here shortly I will go out and look at the 
coils and see if they are clear or have started frosting up again. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 15, 2021, at 2:17 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes 
>  wrote:
> 
> Probably, given the outside temps and state of charge, the gas pressure 
> going into the compressor gets too low if ice prevents the coils from 
> absorbing enough heat to raise the pressure (from that very cold air).
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
> Sent: Monday, February 15, 2021 10:31 AM
> To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
> Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
> Subject: Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question
> 
> Well I went out and checked it.  When I looked at in there was no frost on 
> the coils that I could see in the center part.  I pulled the cover and sure 
> enough it was blinking a low pressure lockout. With the side cover off I 
> could see some frost on the outside of the coils, not a whole lot though.  I 
> shorted the test pins to reset it and it kicked back on.  I shorted them 
> again to force a defrost.  Defrost ran for about 5-10 minutes and once frost 
> was clear it kicked back into heat mode.
> 
> Since replacing the defrost board with attached sensor last year, I have not 
> had a problem sense.  Why the heck did it happen again?  I know it has a temp 
> sensor for the coils.  Do these work by going into a defrost cycle on a timed 
> basis if the temp sensor is below a certain temp?  Or do they sense the coils 
> are freezing up and enter defrost when needed (not on a timed scheduled).
> 
> From what I recall, some old systems did not have a temp sensor and just went 
> into defrost every so often.  I think some systems sense when it needs to be 
> done.  Others I think are still timed but only do it when temp is below a 
> certain point.  This is a 2008 Rheem running on 410 so I am not sure.  If 
> mine runs on a timer only when temp gets low maybe it is so cold that it 
> simply did not reach its run time to defrost soon enough before it started 
> frosting up, or perhaps it is sucking in blowing snow which caused it to 
> frost up faster?
> 
>> On 2/15/2021 9:03 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
>> It is now -3 outside, not sure how low it got last night. Anyway, heat 
>> pump has been running pretty much non stop for the last few days with 
>> the aux heat kicking on occasionally. Yesterday afternoon aux heat was 
>> on quite a bit as it never got over 4 yesterday.  This morning when I 
>> woke up outside unit was running as normal.  A little while later I 
>> happen to look out and it is shut down. Normally when it goes into 
>> defrost it will shut down for a moment then fire back up pretty quick.  
>> It did not appear to be in a defrost cycle.  I had issues before where 
>> the temp sensor on the coils was evidentially bad because when it got 
>> below freezing it would seemingly randomly never enter defrost cycle 
>> and would frost over, which would then put it in a low pressure 
>> lockout. I would have to jump the pins on the board to reset it and 
>> force a defrost then it would be fine again for a while.  Last year I 
>> replaced the defrost board which has the temp sensor hard wired on it. 
>> Never had a problem since.
>> 
>> Anyway I was about to throw on a coat and go outside and pull the 
>> cover and see if the board was flashing an error code and it started 
>> back up.  It is now about an hour later and I notice the outside unit 
>> is not running again.  I am not sure how long it has not been running 
>> but I know its probably be at least 10-15 minutes.  Is there some sort 
>> of reason at these low temps that the outside unit would shut itself 
>> down for a period of time then fire back up?  Does the system 
>> determine that it is so cold outside that the outside unit is not 
>> producing any heat anyway and shuts itself down for a while?  I will 
>> wait a little bit longer and see what happens then go out in the 
>> blowing snow to pull the cover and check the board to see if its 
>> blinking any codes.
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> http://www.okiebenz.com
>> 
>> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>> 
>> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
>> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>> 
> 
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> 
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> 
> To Unsu

Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-15 Thread Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
Probably, given the outside temps and state of charge, the gas pressure going 
into the compressor gets too low if ice prevents the coils from absorbing 
enough heat to raise the pressure (from that very cold air).

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2021 10:31 AM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

Well I went out and checked it.  When I looked at in there was no frost on the 
coils that I could see in the center part.  I pulled the cover and sure enough 
it was blinking a low pressure lockout. With the side cover off I could see 
some frost on the outside of the coils, not a whole lot though.  I shorted the 
test pins to reset it and it kicked back on.  I shorted them again to force a 
defrost.  Defrost ran for about 5-10 minutes and once frost was clear it kicked 
back into heat mode.

Since replacing the defrost board with attached sensor last year, I have not 
had a problem sense.  Why the heck did it happen again?  I know it has a temp 
sensor for the coils.  Do these work by going into a defrost cycle on a timed 
basis if the temp sensor is below a certain temp?  Or do they sense the coils 
are freezing up and enter defrost when needed (not on a timed scheduled).

 From what I recall, some old systems did not have a temp sensor and just went 
into defrost every so often.  I think some systems sense when it needs to be 
done.  Others I think are still timed but only do it when temp is below a 
certain point.  This is a 2008 Rheem running on 410 so I am not sure.  If mine 
runs on a timer only when temp gets low maybe it is so cold that it simply did 
not reach its run time to defrost soon enough before it started frosting up, or 
perhaps it is sucking in blowing snow which caused it to frost up faster?

On 2/15/2021 9:03 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> It is now -3 outside, not sure how low it got last night. Anyway, heat 
> pump has been running pretty much non stop for the last few days with 
> the aux heat kicking on occasionally. Yesterday afternoon aux heat was 
> on quite a bit as it never got over 4 yesterday.  This morning when I 
> woke up outside unit was running as normal.  A little while later I 
> happen to look out and it is shut down. Normally when it goes into 
> defrost it will shut down for a moment then fire back up pretty quick.  
> It did not appear to be in a defrost cycle.  I had issues before where 
> the temp sensor on the coils was evidentially bad because when it got 
> below freezing it would seemingly randomly never enter defrost cycle 
> and would frost over, which would then put it in a low pressure 
> lockout. I would have to jump the pins on the board to reset it and 
> force a defrost then it would be fine again for a while.  Last year I 
> replaced the defrost board which has the temp sensor hard wired on it. 
> Never had a problem since.
>
> Anyway I was about to throw on a coat and go outside and pull the 
> cover and see if the board was flashing an error code and it started 
> back up.  It is now about an hour later and I notice the outside unit 
> is not running again.  I am not sure how long it has not been running 
> but I know its probably be at least 10-15 minutes.  Is there some sort 
> of reason at these low temps that the outside unit would shut itself 
> down for a period of time then fire back up?  Does the system 
> determine that it is so cold outside that the outside unit is not 
> producing any heat anyway and shuts itself down for a while?  I will 
> wait a little bit longer and see what happens then go out in the 
> blowing snow to pull the cover and check the board to see if its 
> blinking any codes.
>
>
> ___
> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
>
> To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
> http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
>

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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-15 Thread Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
For recent systems there are two basic defrost schemes: demand defrost and 
time/temp defrost.  

Time/temp is cheaper and most common.  The time can usually be set by jumpers 
or DIP switches.  If time is set to 30 min (for example) the coil temp sensor 
is checked every 30 minutes and a defrost cycle starts if that temp is below 
some threshold, like 30 degrees, and stops when the coil temp sensor reaches 
(for example) cutoff at 60 degrees.  There is usually a maximum defrost cycle 
time limit.  In the defrost mode the heat pump acts like an AC unit except the 
aux/emergency heat strips are on and the outside fan is off.  This scheme will 
cause  unnecessary (but short) defrost cycles when it's near or below freezing 
outside.  Ice buildup is actually worst when the outside temp is near and just 
above 32 degrees and it's humid, not when it's very cold

Demand defrost uses one of several methods to estimate air flow restriction 
through the coils.  It may measure the pressure drop or try to compute it from 
refrigerant pressures or temperatures.  In theory this avoids unnecessary 
defrost cycles and insures the coils really are open.  I don't have experience 
with demand defrost systems.

-Original Message-
From: Mercedes On Behalf Of Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
Sent: Monday, February 15, 2021 10:31 AM
To: mercedes@okiebenz.com
Cc: Kaleb Striplin 
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

Well I went out and checked it.  When I looked at in there was no frost on the 
coils that I could see in the center part.  I pulled the cover and sure enough 
it was blinking a low pressure lockout. With the side cover off I could see 
some frost on the outside of the coils, not a whole lot though.  I shorted the 
test pins to reset it and it kicked back on.  I shorted them again to force a 
defrost.  Defrost ran for about 5-10 minutes and once frost was clear it kicked 
back into heat mode.

Since replacing the defrost board with attached sensor last year, I have not 
had a problem sense.  Why the heck did it happen again?  I know it has a temp 
sensor for the coils.  Do these work by going into a defrost cycle on a timed 
basis if the temp sensor is below a certain temp?  Or do they sense the coils 
are freezing up and enter defrost when needed (not on a timed scheduled).

 From what I recall, some old systems did not have a temp sensor and just went 
into defrost every so often.  I think some systems sense when it needs to be 
done.  Others I think are still timed but only do it when temp is below a 
certain point.  This is a 2008 Rheem running on 410 so I am not sure.  If mine 
runs on a timer only when temp gets low maybe it is so cold that it simply did 
not reach its run time to defrost soon enough before it started frosting up, or 
perhaps it is sucking in blowing snow which caused it to frost up faster?

On 2/15/2021 9:03 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
> It is now -3 outside, not sure how low it got last night. Anyway, heat 
> pump has been running pretty much non stop for the last few days with 
> the aux heat kicking on occasionally. Yesterday afternoon aux heat was 
> on quite a bit as it never got over 4 yesterday.  This morning when I 
> woke up outside unit was running as normal.  A little while later I 
> happen to look out and it is shut down. Normally when it goes into 
> defrost it will shut down for a moment then fire back up pretty quick.  
> It did not appear to be in a defrost cycle.  I had issues before where 
> the temp sensor on the coils was evidentially bad because when it got 
> below freezing it would seemingly randomly never enter defrost cycle 
> and would frost over, which would then put it in a low pressure 
> lockout. I would have to jump the pins on the board to reset it and 
> force a defrost then it would be fine again for a while.  Last year I 
> replaced the defrost board which has the temp sensor hard wired on it. 
> Never had a problem since.
>
> Anyway I was about to throw on a coat and go outside and pull the 
> cover and see if the board was flashing an error code and it started 
> back up.  It is now about an hour later and I notice the outside unit 
> is not running again.  I am not sure how long it has not been running 
> but I know its probably be at least 10-15 minutes.  Is there some sort 
> of reason at these low temps that the outside unit would shut itself 
> down for a period of time then fire back up?  Does the system 
> determine that it is so cold outside that the outside unit is not 
> producing any heat anyway and shuts itself down for a while?  I will 
> wait a little bit longer and see what happens then go out in the 
> blowing snow to pull the cover and check the board to see if its 
> blinking any codes.
>
>
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> http://www.okiebenz.com
>
> To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/arc

Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-15 Thread Allan Streib via Mercedes
Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes  writes:

> Is there some sort of reason at these low temps that the outside unit
> would shut itself down for a period of time then fire back up?  Does
> the system determine that it is so cold outside that the outside unit
> is not producing any heat anyway and shuts itself down for a while?

I'm talking about something I really have no experience with, but is it
an R22 unit? R22 enthalpy drops to zero at -40F, but in practice a
residential heat pump doesn't really work below zero F. It would not
surprise me if the system had some minimum exterior temperature limit.

Allan

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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump question

2021-02-15 Thread Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes
Well I went out and checked it.  When I looked at in there was no frost 
on the coils that I could see in the center part.  I pulled the cover 
and sure enough it was blinking a low pressure lockout. With the side 
cover off I could see some frost on the outside of the coils, not a 
whole lot though.  I shorted the test pins to reset it and it kicked 
back on.  I shorted them again to force a defrost.  Defrost ran for 
about 5-10 minutes and once frost was clear it kicked back into heat mode.


Since replacing the defrost board with attached sensor last year, I have 
not had a problem sense.  Why the heck did it happen again?  I know it 
has a temp sensor for the coils.  Do these work by going into a defrost 
cycle on a timed basis if the temp sensor is below a certain temp?  Or 
do they sense the coils are freezing up and enter defrost when needed 
(not on a timed scheduled).


From what I recall, some old systems did not have a temp sensor and 
just went into defrost every so often.  I think some systems sense when 
it needs to be done.  Others I think are still timed but only do it when 
temp is below a certain point.  This is a 2008 Rheem running on 410 so I 
am not sure.  If mine runs on a timer only when temp gets low maybe it 
is so cold that it simply did not reach its run time to defrost soon 
enough before it started frosting up, or perhaps it is sucking in 
blowing snow which caused it to frost up faster?


On 2/15/2021 9:03 AM, Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes wrote:
It is now -3 outside, not sure how low it got last night. Anyway, heat 
pump has been running pretty much non stop for the last few days with 
the aux heat kicking on occasionally. Yesterday afternoon aux heat was 
on quite a bit as it never got over 4 yesterday.  This morning when I 
woke up outside unit was running as normal.  A little while later I 
happen to look out and it is shut down. Normally when it goes into 
defrost it will shut down for a moment then fire back up pretty 
quick.  It did not appear to be in a defrost cycle.  I had issues 
before where the temp sensor on the coils was evidentially bad because 
when it got below freezing it would seemingly randomly never enter 
defrost cycle and would frost over, which would then put it in a low 
pressure lockout. I would have to jump the pins on the board to reset 
it and force a defrost then it would be fine again for a while.  Last 
year I replaced the defrost board which has the temp sensor hard wired 
on it. Never had a problem since.


Anyway I was about to throw on a coat and go outside and pull the 
cover and see if the board was flashing an error code and it started 
back up.  It is now about an hour later and I notice the outside unit 
is not running again.  I am not sure how long it has not been running 
but I know its probably be at least 10-15 minutes.  Is there some sort 
of reason at these low temps that the outside unit would shut itself 
down for a period of time then fire back up?  Does the system 
determine that it is so cold outside that the outside unit is not 
producing any heat anyway and shuts itself down for a while?  I will 
wait a little bit longer and see what happens then go out in the 
blowing snow to pull the cover and check the board to see if its 
blinking any codes.



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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump update

2021-02-13 Thread Meade Dillon via Mercedes
Nice.
-
Max
Charleston SC


On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 12:18 PM Kaleb Striplin via Mercedes <
mercedes@okiebenz.com> wrote:

> Got down to 6 last night and is up to 10 right now. Heat pump has pretty
> much been running non stop. I notice aux heat kicks in occasionally and so
> far breaker has not tripped. I really didn’t think that would fix it but so
> far so good.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
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Re: [MBZ] heat

2015-08-18 Thread Mountain Man via Mercedes
Bob R wrote:
 ...we lived there in the late 70's, early '80's when I was in bible college.

Pastor Bob?
mao

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Re: [MBZ] heat

2015-08-18 Thread Rich Thomas via Mercedes
*I think most people in Fargo go for the TruCoat, it keeps the cars from 
rusting out


--R


Customer*: We sat here right in this room and went over this and over this!
*Jerry*: Yeah, but that TruCoat--
*Customer*: I sat right here and said I didn't want no TruCoat!
*Jerry*: Yeah, but I'm sayin', that TruCoat, you don't get it and you 
get oxidization problems. It'll cost you a heck of lot more'n five hundred--
*Customer*: You're sittin' here, you're talkin' in circles! You're 
talkin' like we didn't go over this already!

*Jerry*: Yeah, but this TruCoat--
*Customer*: We had us a deal here for nine-teen-five. You sat there and 
darned if you didn't tell me you'd get this car, these options, without 
the sealant, for nine-teen-five!

*Jerry*: All right, I'm not sayin' I didn't--
*Customer*: You called me twenty minutes ago and said you had it! Ready 
to make delivery, ya says! Come on down and get it! And here ya are and 
you're wastin' my time and you're wastin' my wife's time and I'm payin' 
nineteen-five for this vehicle here!
*Jerry*: All right. I'll talk to my boss. See, they install that TruCoat 
at the factory, there's nothin' we can do, but I'll talk to my boss.

/[Jerry leaves the room]/
*Customer*: /[to his wife]/ These guys here--these guys! It's always the 
same! It's always more!

/[Other room]/
*Jerry*: You goin' to the Gophers on Sunday?
*Salesman*: Oh you betcha.
*Jerry*: You wouldn't happen to have an extra ticket?
*Salesman*: You kiddin'!
/[Jerry returns to his office]/
*Jerry*: Well, he never done this before. But seeing as it's special 
circumstances and all, he says I can knock a hundred dollars off that 
Trucoat.
*Customer*: One hundred--You lied to me, Mr Lundegaard. You're a 
bald-faced liar. A  liar.

*Customer's Wife*: Bucky, please.
*Customer*: Where's my  check book? Let's get this over with.

On 8/18/15 10:44 AM, Meade Dillon via Mercedes wrote:

My Pop lives / summers in Fargo, spends some time during winter in either
AZ or visiting other relatives down south.

Fargo is great for car lovers, I don't think they or any other place in ND
use road salt in the winter, so rust is not the big deal like other
northern states.  The issue was high property values, due to the oil boom,
but that may be changing now.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 9:59 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:


Heck, if finances permitted I would love to have a summer home in
Wisconsin for retirement.  My only concern would be having all my “stuff”
in both locations.

Dan




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Re: [MBZ] heat

2015-08-18 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
Heck, if finances permitted I would love to have a summer home in Wisconsin for 
retirement.  My only concern would be having all my “stuff” in both locations.

Dan


 On Aug 18, 2015, at 9:53 AM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 wrote:
 
 I know some Yoopers. They all have good characteristics but then some are a
 little off. But it's the kind of off you enjoy being around.
 I've seriously considered MN since we lived there in the late 70's, early
 '80's when I was in bible college. I love MN. HmmmMinnesota. ..
 
 Bob R
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Re: [MBZ] heat

2015-08-18 Thread Meade Dillon via Mercedes
My Pop lives / summers in Fargo, spends some time during winter in either
AZ or visiting other relatives down south.

Fargo is great for car lovers, I don't think they or any other place in ND
use road salt in the winter, so rust is not the big deal like other
northern states.  The issue was high property values, due to the oil boom,
but that may be changing now.

-
Max
Charleston SC

On Tue, Aug 18, 2015 at 9:59 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Heck, if finances permitted I would love to have a summer home in
 Wisconsin for retirement.  My only concern would be having all my “stuff”
 in both locations.

 Dan



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Re: [MBZ] heat

2015-08-18 Thread Bob Rentfro via Mercedes
I know some Yoopers. They all have good characteristics but then some are a
little off. But it's the kind of off you enjoy being around.
I've seriously considered MN since we lived there in the late 70's, early
'80's when I was in bible college. I love MN. HmmmMinnesota. ..

Bob R
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Re: [MBZ] heat

2015-08-17 Thread Curly McLain via Mercedes

Scott Sez:


During an earlier age, it was vey common for those with means (not the
working class) to summer up north and winter down south.


Edgewater  (IL)

Community Area 77, 7 miles N of the Chicago Loop. Although it was an 
elite nineteenthcentury suburb, Edgewater was not recognized as 
distinct when scholars laid out the community areas in the 1920s. 
Instead,Edgewater was merged into Uptown. In the 1970s, however, 
Edgewater's property owners persuaded the city of Chicago to make a 
rare change in its community area maps and recognize Edgewater as a 
separate entity.
Few people lived in the Edgewater area before the late nineteenth 
century. Scattered settlers farmed celery. Edgewater's residents were 
mostly German and Irish. Swedes gathered along Clark Street in an 
area they called Andersonville.

EDGEWATER ADVERTISEMENT, 1888

John Lewis Cochran (1857-1923) purchased land near Lake Michigan in 
the town of Lake View in 1886. There he developed a subdivision he 
advertised as Edgewater. He first built mansions on the lakefront 
for wealthy families and later had smaller houses built to the west. 
In contrast to other suburban developers, Cochran installed 
improvements such as sidewalks, sewers, and streetlights before 
customers moved in. Cochran also founded the Edgewater Light Company 
to ensure that his buyers could use the most modern conveniences. 
Cochran's final task was to provide adequate transportation to the 
area. He persuaded the Chicago, Milwaukee  St. Paul Railroad to open 
a stop on Bryn Mawr Avenue and was instrumental in the creation of 
the Northwestern Elevated Railroad Company, which in 1908 opened up a 
connection through to Howard Street. The availability of 
transportation encouraged the erection of apartment buildings, a 
development Cochran had not intended. This strip of common corridor 
buildings and residential hotels, concentrated between Winthrop and 
Kenmore, increased Edgewater's population density.
During the twentieth century, Edgewater solidified its status as one 
of the most prestigious residential areas in Chicago. In 1898, the 
exclusive Saddle and Cycle Club relocated to Foster Avenue, on the 
lakefront. The Edgewater Beach Hotel (1916) and the Edgewater Beach 
Apartments (1929), finished in sunrise yellow and sunset pink, served 
as local landmarks. Residential Edgewater's wealth reinforced the 
glamour of recreational Uptown.


Edgewater Gulf Hotel (Biloxi)
Surrounded by streets with names such as Kenmore, Bryn Mawr, The 
Edgewater area was developed by executives of Sears Roebuck Company 
from Chicago.  The well to do families would travel by train to the 
Gulf Coast to spend the Winters.


In 1870, the Louisville and Nashville Railroad was constructed 
through the southernmost section of Harrison County, Mississippi, 
connecting New Orleans, Louisiana, and Mobile, Alabama.[1] A northern 
transportation route into south Mississippi was provided by the Gulf 
and Ship Island Railroad at the turn of the 20th century.[2] These 
railroads provided an inexpensive means for moving passengers as well 
as goods, and opened south Mississippi to both industrial and 
recreational development.[3] Rapidly progressing lumber and seafood 
industries transformed the Mississippi Gulf Coast in the 1920s, and 
people arrived from throughout the United States to take advantage of 
the economic boom.[3] Northern tourists were attracted to the 
Mississippi Gulf Coast because of mild winters and cool sea breezes 
in summer, before the introduction of air conditioning. Besides the 
weather, other tourist attractions included seafood restaurants, 
swimming, golf, schooner races, sailing to offshore islands, and 
recreational fishing. During this period of economic expansion, grand 
hotels were constructed along the Mississippi Gulf Coast to 
accommodate businessmen, tourists, and transient workers.



Designed by architects Marshall and Fox and constructed in 1924 with 
400 guest rooms, the Edgewater Gulf Hotel was one of the largest on 
the Mississippi Gulf Coast.[14] Guests that arrived in south 
Mississippi by train could disembark at the rail station on the hotel 
grounds at Edgewater Park. Early advertisements promoted the hotel as 
an air conditioned, fireproofed structure, and the hotel's design 
allowed 95 percent of the rooms to have a view of the Mississippi 
Sound. In the formal dining room, guests ate on fine china atop heavy 
linen tablecloths with a view of the Gulf waters. The hotel complex 
was situated on 600 acres (243 hectares) that included gardens, a 
golf course, tennis courts, and a glass-enclosed swimming pool. The 
Edgewater Gulf weathered the Great Depression and attracted many 
post-World War II conventions which boosted its business. It retained 
its grandeur through the 1960s, but closed in 1970, unable to compete 
with newer hotels. In 1971, the grand hotel was demolished by 
implosion to make way for expansion of Edgewater Mall shopping 

Re: [MBZ] heat

2015-08-17 Thread Randy Bennell via Mercedes
I am told that the descriptive equivalent of snow birds for the winter 
visitors, is summer chickens for the folks that live there but leave 
for the worst of the hot weather.

Maybe that is what you need to be?

RB

On 16/08/2015 10:07 AM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes wrote:

I don't have to explain AZ. 117 Friday,  115 yesterday. Today should be
about the same. Ugh.
I'm tired of these summers.  I have to start thinking about where I want to
spend summers when I retire.

Bob R




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Re: [MBZ] heat

2015-08-17 Thread Curly McLain via Mercedes

I don't have to explain AZ. 117 Friday,  115 yesterday. Today should be
about the same. Ugh.
I'm tired of these summers.  I have to start thinking about where I want to
spend summers when I retire.

Bob R


Bob,

Wisconsin, N of Rhinelander, N MN, and parts of 
canada are pretty nice in the summertime.  no 
need for air cond.  reasonable humidity levels 
most of the time.   Occasional need to throw a 
log or two in the woodstove when it is cold and 
rainy.  The MI UP and other areas north of 45º N 
lat.  are also tolerable without A/c.


Just think!  You could be a summer chicken 
Yooper!   Way better than being a FIB.


The northwoods are full of summer homes or cottages.


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Re: [MBZ] heat

2015-08-17 Thread Randy Bennell via Mercedes
A lot of the cottage owners out at the lake where we go are from the 
US but mostly within a good day's drive - Illinois, Indiana, Iowa etc.


RB

On 17/08/2015 11:55 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes wrote:

So the. You would have a large influx of Arizonians and Floridians for the 
summer, much like we have a large influx of Canadians in the winter?

Dan, eh

Sent from my iPad


On Aug 17, 2015, at 12:20 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

I am told that the descriptive equivalent of snow birds for the winter visitors, is 
summer chickens for the folks that live there but leave for the worst of the hot 
weather.
Maybe that is what you need to be?

RB


On 16/08/2015 10:07 AM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes wrote:
I don't have to explain AZ. 117 Friday,  115 yesterday. Today should be
about the same. Ugh.
I'm tired of these summers.  I have to start thinking about where I want to
spend summers when I retire.

Bob R




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Re: [MBZ] heat

2015-08-17 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
So the. You would have a large influx of Arizonians and Floridians for the 
summer, much like we have a large influx of Canadians in the winter?

Dan, eh

Sent from my iPad

 On Aug 17, 2015, at 12:20 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 I am told that the descriptive equivalent of snow birds for the winter 
 visitors, is summer chickens for the folks that live there but leave for 
 the worst of the hot weather.
 Maybe that is what you need to be?
 
 RB
 
 On 16/08/2015 10:07 AM, Bob Rentfro via Mercedes wrote:
 I don't have to explain AZ. 117 Friday,  115 yesterday. Today should be
 about the same. Ugh.
 I'm tired of these summers.  I have to start thinking about where I want to
 spend summers when I retire.
 
 Bob R
 
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] heat

2015-08-16 Thread Bob Rentfro via Mercedes
I don't have to explain AZ. 117 Friday,  115 yesterday. Today should be
about the same. Ugh.
I'm tired of these summers.  I have to start thinking about where I want to
spend summers when I retire.

Bob R
On Aug 15, 2015 4:14 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Southern Indiana

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Re: [MBZ] heat

2015-08-16 Thread Peter Frederick via Mercedes
I drove through Phoenix in 1980 at night -- 98 F and 60% RH, a real  
sweatbox.


In the old days, before urbanization, Phoenix was dry.  Not any more.   
Flagstaff is still dry, I think.  It was when I was there.  Probably  
not so much this summer with all the rain.


A friend of mine has his first vegetable garden this year and wanted  
to know how to make sun-dried tomatoes -- I told him he needed to move  
to Arizona.  The heat and dry air (outside urban areas, anyway) will  
dehydrate things like peppers and tomatoes in a day or two.  Here they  
will rot instead.


We are in that time of year where the RH goes over 100% at night,  
patchy to dense fogs and the grass is soaking wet until noon so I  
can't mow when it's cool out.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] heat

2015-08-16 Thread Scott Ritchey via Mercedes
In a prior life I had to go to Las Vegas fairly often.  On really hot days
you could feel the blacktop move under your feet as you cross the street.

 -Original Message-
 From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Bob
 Rentfro via Mercedes
 Sent: Sunday, August 16, 2015 11:08 AM
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Cc: Bob Rentfro azbob...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] heat
 
 I don't have to explain AZ. 117 Friday,  115 yesterday. Today should be
about
 the same. Ugh.
 I'm tired of these summers.  I have to start thinking about where I want
to
 spend summers when I retire.
 
 Bob R



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Re: [MBZ] heat

2015-08-15 Thread Peter Frederick via Mercedes

Southern Indiana

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Re: [MBZ] heat

2015-08-14 Thread OK Don via Mercedes
We're thankful for the cool weather when it's below 95 - - -

On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 4:12 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Don't know how you folks down south survive.
 It is about 92 here today and although I claim to like it warm, this is
 about warm enough for me.
 Supposed to drop back off to more reasonable tempertures by about Sunday.

 RB

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-- 
OK Don

NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!

*“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
for themselves.

WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
2013 F150, 18 mpg
2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] heat

2015-08-14 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
October to April here. Lows in the 60s, highs in the 70s, low or no humidity. 
Lovely.

Summer months can be hellish at times, but it's a small price to pay to avoid 
the cold, snow, and lack of sunlight in the winter months.

Dan

Sent from my iPad

 On Aug 14, 2015, at 10:08 AM, OK Don via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 wrote:
 
 We're thankful for the cool weather when it's below 95 - - -
 
 On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 4:12 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 Don't know how you folks down south survive.
 It is about 92 here today and although I claim to like it warm, this is
 about warm enough for me.
 Supposed to drop back off to more reasonable tempertures by about Sunday.
 
 RB
 
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 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 
 -- 
 OK Don
 
 NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!
 
 *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of
 our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
 
 There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who
 learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
 for themselves.
 
 WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
 2013 F150, 18 mpg
 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
 ___
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Re: [MBZ] heat

2015-08-14 Thread Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
Our winter broke records for cold.  Painful.  But the summer has so far
been quite decent.  Just waiting for the next hurricane - it's been 5 years
or more since we got hit (other than Sandy).

On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 10:49 AM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 October to April here. Lows in the 60s, highs in the 70s, low or no
 humidity. Lovely.

 Summer months can be hellish at times, but it's a small price to pay to
 avoid the cold, snow, and lack of sunlight in the winter months.

 Dan

 Sent from my iPad

  On Aug 14, 2015, at 10:08 AM, OK Don via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 wrote:
 
  We're thankful for the cool weather when it's below 95 - - -
 
  On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 4:12 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes 
  mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
  Don't know how you folks down south survive.
  It is about 92 here today and although I claim to like it warm, this is
  about warm enough for me.
  Supposed to drop back off to more reasonable tempertures by about
 Sunday.
 
  RB
 
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  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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  --
  OK Don
 
  NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens!
 
  *“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many
 of
  our people need it sorely on these accounts.”* – Mark Twain
 
  There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few
 who
  learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence
  for themselves.
 
  WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers*
  2013 F150, 18 mpg
  2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg
  1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph!
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Re: [MBZ] heat

2015-08-14 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
Of course, you can turn this around and ask “How do you stand those cold 
temperatures in winter?”

Dan who lived in the Great White North at one time



 On Aug 13, 2015, at 11:05 PM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 Here in D.C. we had 12 straight days above 90 but now it's settled into the
 80s with clear skies, low humidity.  Nightime in the 50s and low 60s.
 Perfect.
 
 On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 9:50 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 Being short an employee I have been driving to Arkansas 3 days a week and
 spending 8-10 hours a day all day out on dealers lots. Very very hot work
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 
 and humid
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] heat

2015-08-13 Thread Peter Frederick via Mercedes
Supposed to be upper 90s here all next week and weekend, so I had to  
put off treating my bees for mites for a couple weeks.  I want to kill  
the mites, not the bees!


I'm ready for fall, but then after living in Canada for three years  
I'm ALWAYS ready for fall around here


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] heat

2015-08-13 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
Welcome to the South!

Around here it’s been in the mid to low 80s due to al the rain we’ve had, but 
the heat index has been around 100F for the last month or two.

Just hydrate heavily and take breaks.

I spent about eight hours in it on Saturday parting out the S500.

Dan



 On Aug 13, 2015, at 6:55 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 Supposed to be upper 90s here all next week and weekend, so I had to put off 
 treating my bees for mites for a couple weeks.  I want to kill the mites, not 
 the bees!
 
 I'm ready for fall, but then after living in Canada for three years I'm 
 ALWAYS ready for fall around here
 
 Peter
 
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Re: [MBZ] heat

2015-08-13 Thread Jim Cathey via Mercedes
I was out yesterday and chainsawed and split at least a cord of wood 
(with a gas-driven log splitter).  It was high 80s, maybe 90.


There's nothing I like more for doing that kind of work than a
cool-to-cold Fall day where you have to keep moving to keep warm.
Gets the job done faster, no sweat, no bugs, no problems.

-- Jim


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Re: [MBZ] heat

2015-08-13 Thread Max Dillon via Mercedes
Where's here, Peter?
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300

On August 13, 2015 6:55:22 PM EDT, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
Supposed to be upper 90s here all next week and weekend, so I had to  
put off treating my bees for mites for a couple weeks.  I want to kill 

the mites, not the bees!

I'm ready for fall, but then after living in Canada for three years  
I'm ALWAYS ready for fall around here

Peter

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Re: [MBZ] heat

2015-08-13 Thread Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes
Being short an employee I have been driving to Arkansas 3 days a week and 
spending 8-10 hours a day all day out on dealers lots. Very very hot work

Sent from my iPhone

 On Aug 13, 2015, at 6:01 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 wrote:
 
 Welcome to the South!
 
 Around here it’s been in the mid to low 80s due to al the rain we’ve had, but 
 the heat index has been around 100F for the last month or two.
 
 Just hydrate heavily and take breaks.
 
 I spent about eight hours in it on Saturday parting out the S500.
 
 Dan
 
 
 
 On Aug 13, 2015, at 6:55 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 Supposed to be upper 90s here all next week and weekend, so I had to put off 
 treating my bees for mites for a couple weeks.  I want to kill the mites, 
 not the bees!
 
 I'm ready for fall, but then after living in Canada for three years I'm 
 ALWAYS ready for fall around here
 
 Peter
 
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Re: [MBZ] heat

2015-08-13 Thread Rich Thomas via Mercedes
I was out yesterday and chainsawed and split at least a cord of wood 
(with a gas-driven log splitter).  It was high 80s, maybe 90.  Just have 
to keep consuming mass quantities of water, take breaks every little 
while.  I actually like it warm, after spending my first 45 years in 
cold winters.


--R



On 8/13/15 5:12 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote:

Don't know how you folks down south survive.
It is about 92 here today and although I claim to like it warm, this 
is about warm enough for me.

Supposed to drop back off to more reasonable tempertures by about Sunday.

RB

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Re: [MBZ] heat

2015-08-13 Thread Curt Raymond via Mercedes
I've got a buddy with a firewood processor, logs go in, split pieces come out. 
Its much more effective to help him with that and get the friend price than to 
do any wood myself. I went over last night and we hauled two pickup loads (more 
than a cord) back to my place. It was in the high '70s and I rapidly realized I 
should have brought shorts with me...
My trip to the Philippines in June actually helped me acclimate to the temps 
here. It was never cooler than the mid '90s the 10 days I was there.
In November I'll spend a freezing week at deer camp which will help acclimate 
me to winter.
-Curt
  From: Rich Thomas via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com
 To: mercedes@okiebenz.com 
Cc: Rich Thomas richthomas79td...@constructivity.net 
 Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2015 5:22 PM
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] heat
   
I was out yesterday and chainsawed and split at least a cord of wood 
(with a gas-driven log splitter).  It was high 80s, maybe 90.  Just have 
to keep consuming mass quantities of water, take breaks every little 
while.  I actually like it warm, after spending my first 45 years in 
cold winters.

--R



On 8/13/15 5:12 PM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes wrote:
 Don't know how you folks down south survive.
 It is about 92 here today and although I claim to like it warm, this 
 is about warm enough for me.
 Supposed to drop back off to more reasonable tempertures by about Sunday.

 RB

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Re: [MBZ] heat

2015-08-13 Thread Max Dillon via Mercedes
AC, or get on the water.

We're having a cool spell, highs in the 80's for the past week or so.
-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'87 300TD
'95 E300
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Re: [MBZ] heat

2015-08-13 Thread Dan Penoff via Mercedes
Meh.

As my Dad would have said, “It builds character”.

BS.

Dan


 On Aug 13, 2015, at 8:26 PM, Kaleb C. Striplin via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 Being short an employee I have been driving to Arkansas 3 days a week and 
 spending 8-10 hours a day all day out on dealers lots. Very very hot work
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 On Aug 13, 2015, at 6:01 PM, Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com 
 wrote:
 
 Welcome to the South!
 
 Around here it’s been in the mid to low 80s due to al the rain we’ve had, 
 but the heat index has been around 100F for the last month or two.
 
 Just hydrate heavily and take breaks.
 
 I spent about eight hours in it on Saturday parting out the S500.
 
 Dan
 
 
 
 On Aug 13, 2015, at 6:55 PM, Peter Frederick via Mercedes 
 mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:
 
 Supposed to be upper 90s here all next week and weekend, so I had to put 
 off treating my bees for mites for a couple weeks.  I want to kill the 
 mites, not the bees!
 
 I'm ready for fall, but then after living in Canada for three years I'm 
 ALWAYS ready for fall around here
 
 Peter
 
 ___
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 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 
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Re: [MBZ] heat

2015-08-13 Thread Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes
Here in D.C. we had 12 straight days above 90 but now it's settled into the
80s with clear skies, low humidity.  Nightime in the 50s and low 60s.
Perfect.

On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 9:50 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes 
mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote:

 Being short an employee I have been driving to Arkansas 3 days a week and
 spending 8-10 hours a day all day out on dealers lots. Very very hot work

 Sent from my iPhone


 and humid


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Re: [MBZ] heat

2015-08-13 Thread Curly McLain via Mercedes
Being short an employee I have been driving to Arkansas 3 days a 
week and spending 8-10 hours a day all day out on dealers lots. Very 
very hot work


Sent from my iPhone


and humid

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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump install complete

2012-11-10 Thread Craig
On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 19:33:10 -0500 Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net
wrote:

 Competed the rest of the installation: repaired insulation on the
 refrigerant line, sealed hole in the foundation, hooked up the drain
 line.
 
 Looking forward to a much more comfortable house and lower power bills.

Congratulations!


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump install complete

2012-11-10 Thread WILTON

ATTABOY!

Wilton

- Original Message - 
From: Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net

To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2012 7:33 PM
Subject: [MBZ] Heat pump install complete


Finally had time to troubleshoot the heat pump system I installed last 
week.  Discovered a mistake in the low voltage wiring connections at the 
air handler.  Fixed that, and the system began working as designed.  110 
degree air at the vents, to celebrate I've set the thermostat at 75.


Competed the rest of the installation: repaired insulation on the 
refrigerant line, sealed hole in the foundation, hooked up the drain line.


Looking forward to a much more comfortable house and lower power bills.

--
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300
'87 300TD
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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump.

2012-07-07 Thread Mitch Haley

Dan Penoff wrote:

That, or find someone with a sales tax exemption certificate or business 
license and buy it from a local wholesaler.


Johnstone Supply wanted $1059 for my furnace that I got for $831 (before 
deducting a 6% coupon) shipped from an internet dealer in Florida.

I was rather surprised that wholesale was that much more than retail.

OTOH, the guys on an HVAC forum tell me that a Goodman dealer buys from Goodman 
for substantially less than I paid. Makes me wonder how the guys without a 
dealership who buy from the supply houses can ever compete.


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump.

2012-07-07 Thread Allan Streib
Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net writes:

 OTOH, the guys on an HVAC forum tell me that a Goodman dealer buys
 from Goodman for substantially less than I paid. Makes me wonder how
 the guys without a dealership who buy from the supply houses can ever
 compete.

Most people replace their furnace in a panic, in January when it's 5
degrees outside, and the old one stopped working.  They don't have the
presence of mind to do a lot of comparison shopping.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump.

2012-07-07 Thread Max Dillon
Is this a fair price?  I just paid $1660 delivered for a 2 ton Goodman heat 
pump system (outside condenser unit, inside handler, 50 foot copper line set).  
R410, 13 SEER.  It comes with the refrigerant charge, I can install myself with 
about 20 hours of labor, plus supplies like silver solder, nitrogen, gas for my 
torch.


Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote:

Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net writes:

 OTOH, the guys on an HVAC forum tell me that a Goodman dealer buys
 from Goodman for substantially less than I paid. Makes me wonder how
 the guys without a dealership who buy from the supply houses can ever
 compete.

-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300, '87 300TD

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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump.

2012-07-07 Thread Mitch Haley

Max Dillon wrote:

Is this a fair price?  I just paid $1660 delivered for a 2 ton Goodman heat 
pump system (outside condenser unit, inside handler, 50 foot copper line set).  
R410, 13 SEER.  It comes with the refrigerant charge, I can install myself with 
about 20 hours of labor, plus supplies like silver solder, nitrogen, gas for my 
torch.


Seems to be in the ballpark.

Regular air handler
http://www.acwholesalers.com/Goodman_Heat_Pump_Air_Conditioner_System_p/11711.htm

or variable speed blower?
http://www.acwholesalers.com/Goodman_Heat_Pump_Air_Conditioner_System_p/11984.htm

Says here the factory charge can work with up to 15' lines, so you'll probably 
have to top it off.

http://www.acwholesalers.com/Goodman_heat_Pump_Air_Conditioner_Split_Condenser_p/11648.htm

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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump.

2012-07-07 Thread Max Dillon
Air handler is single speed.  Thanks for the info.  I'll see how she does 
without a top off.  Going to try to install over the next couple weeks, hour 
here and there after work.


Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net wrote:


Seems to be in the ballpark.

Regular air handler
http://www.acwholesalers.com/Goodman_Heat_Pump_Air_Conditioner_System_p/11711.htm

or variable speed blower?
http://www.acwholesalers.com/Goodman_Heat_Pump_Air_Conditioner_System_p/11984.htm

Says here the factory charge can work with up to 15' lines, so you'll
probably 
have to top it off.
http://www.acwholesalers.com/Goodman_heat_Pump_Air_Conditioner_Split_Condenser_p/11648.htm


-- 
Max Dillon
Charleston SC
'95 E300, '87 300TD

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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump.

2012-07-07 Thread clay monroe
That sounds like my situation.  Fifteen years ago the messed up electric 
furnace crapped out in Feb.  Three weeks without heat, and getting ready to 
redo the kitchen.  Switch to gas, got the antiquated electric panel upgrade to 
new, and all new furnace and WH.  

Old furnace was on knob and tube era wires, but was actually using a pair of 30 
amp breakers to power the 80 amp furnace.  Wiring was orange extension cord 
grade, PO had done, and he went to Hawaii every winter so never used it between 
Nov-Apr.  He had also cobbled together five sub panels with a veritable 
chronological layout of fusing.  1927 house with him living in it from 1940 
until 1994.



clay 


1974 450sl -  Frosch - Two tone green
1972 220D - Gump - She is green, simple and ran
1995 E300D - Cleo - Used by the Queen of Denial
POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers







On Jul 7, 2012, at 7:41 AM, Allan Streib wrote:

 Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net writes:
 
 OTOH, the guys on an HVAC forum tell me that a Goodman dealer buys
 from Goodman for substantially less than I paid. Makes me wonder how
 the guys without a dealership who buy from the supply houses can ever
 compete.
 
 Most people replace their furnace in a panic, in January when it's 5
 degrees outside, and the old one stopped working.  They don't have the
 presence of mind to do a lot of comparison shopping.
 
 Allan
 -- 
 1983 300D
 1979 300SD
 
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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump.

2012-07-06 Thread Curt Raymond
Yeahbut we've got an oil burner which also supplies our domestic hot water. 
We've got baseboard heat not scorched air and I will NOT go to scorched air.

I spent some time last winter looking online and couldn't find anybody willing 
to sell me an oil burner furnace directly.

-Curt

Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 17:08:13 -0400
From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Heat pump.
Message-ID: 4ff6023d.6030...@voyager.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Curt Raymond wrote:
 Sounds like I need to get auditioning sooner rather than later. Our house is 
 single story, about 900sqft. I'm looking at new oil furnaces in the 
 $7,000-8,000 range which gets us up around 90% efficient.

That's a lot of money. Did you say furnace when you meant boiler?
I bought this at 95% efficient, and can prebuy next winter's propane for $2.10 
a 
gallon:
http://www.acwholesalers.com/Goodman_gas_furnaces_lp_natural_gas_furnace_p/11147.htm

This is a little more powerful:
http://www.acwholesalers.com/Goodman_gas_furnaces_lp_natural_gas_furnace_p/11148.htm

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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump.

2012-07-06 Thread Allan Streib
Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com writes:

 I spent some time last winter looking online and couldn't find anybody
 willing to sell me an oil burner furnace directly.

You need to make friends with a small independent heating contractor.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump.

2012-07-06 Thread Dan Penoff
That, or find someone with a sales tax exemption certificate or business 
license and buy it from a local wholesaler.

Dan

On Jul 6, 2012, at 4:32 PM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote:

 Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com writes:
 
 I spent some time last winter looking online and couldn't find anybody
 willing to sell me an oil burner furnace directly.
 
 You need to make friends with a small independent heating contractor.
 
 Allan
 -- 
 1983 300D
 1979 300SD
 
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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump.

2012-07-06 Thread Curt Raymond
I did, he got cancer and retired...

Theres a geo-thermal outfit that sponsors NPR I may give them a shout. At the 
least I should do some diligence and see what my options are.

-Curt

Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 16:32:01 -0400
From: Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Heat pump.
Message-ID: m1ehoo7hry@cs.indiana.edu
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com writes:

 I spent some time last winter looking online and couldn't find anybody
 willing to sell me an oil burner furnace directly.

You need to make friends with a small independent heating contractor.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump.

2012-07-05 Thread Rich Thomas
6-8ft, the marsh maybe gets 1ft deep (it's high marsh) on spring tides 
like this week.  Can't do anything out there though as far as any sort 
of construction.


-R

On 7/5/12 12:02 AM, Craig wrote:

On Wed, 04 Jul 2012 23:39:26 -0400 Rich Thomas
richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote:


I was thinking to run a tide-coupled heat pump with the fluid pipes out
into the marsh but it would only work at high tides.  I would either be
cold or hot at low tides.

I need to keep working on the plan.

How much variation is there between high tide and low tide? Could you put
the pipes below the soil surface a few feet and let the damp soil be your
heatsink?


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump.

2012-07-05 Thread Curt Raymond
Our oil burner has worn down to about 65%. I'm considering geothermal, need to 
get some time to meet with some people and figure out who to have do it...


-Curt

Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 20:48:59 -0400
From: Dan Penoff lwb...@yahoo.com
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Heat pump. Was: overheating, heat wave and 300td
travel
Message-ID: 23977710-0de2-44aa-aa58-69edcd652...@yahoo.com
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii

My HVAC guy in Indiana was trying to push us into doing geothermal for our 4000 
sf house, since we needed AC and the furnace was a crappy 80 some percent model.

The payback was quite attractive, as were the incentives, but we still would 
have paid about $11,000 out of pocket when all was said and done.

One thing that was nice was a state property tax exemption for having the 
system installed. Not sure if this was unique to Indiana, but it did help to 
accelerate the payback.

Dan

Sent from my iPad

On Jul 4, 2012, at 5:45 PM, OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote:

 I think the coils are in ground water, not just dirt. I'll find out for
 sure in August, when we get ours installed. They are planning two 300 ft.
 deep holes for the loops.
 
 On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 3:09 PM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote:
 
 Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com writes:
 
 With ground-source, the heat pump's external coil should always
 be at ground temperature.  Ground temp it typically about 60
 degrees F, even when the air is -40 F.  So even in extreme cold,
 the difference is only 30 degrees.  Cooling is even easier.
 
 Here's something I've wondered though.  Dirt is a pretty good insulator.
 Do geothermal heat pumps not have a problem, in cooling mode, of the
 ground around the heat exchanger impeding heat transfer out of the
 system?  I guess they must not since they are widely used.
 
 Allan
 --
 1983 300D
 1979 300SD

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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump.

2012-07-05 Thread Dan Penoff
I would do it in a heartbeat if I was convinced I would be in the house long 
enough to recover the costs.

My HVAC guy in Indiana was into geothermal big time, and had a lot of 
installations under his belt, so he was very familiar with both the good and 
bad. He had the Federal and state incentives down, too. The property tax 
exemption thing was very obscure, and it seemed that not a lot of people either 
knew about it or took advantage of it.

To do the system for our two story with basement 4,000 SF house would have been 
about $18k in 2009. Incentives would have immediately knocked about $7k off the 
top, leaving us with an $11k bill when he was done.

He had similar sized homes already in service for several years that were 
averaging well under $100/month for energy costs year 'round. That is pretty 
good considering the climate.

I never calculated it in detail, but if my memory serves me correctly, we would 
have saved at least a couple of grand a year between energy costs and tax 
incentives, bringing the payback into the 5-6 year range.

Dan

On Jul 5, 2012, at 8:49 AM, Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:

 Our oil burner has worn down to about 65%. I'm considering geothermal, need 
 to get some time to meet with some people and figure out who to have do it...
 
 
 -Curt
 
 Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 20:48:59 -0400
 From: Dan Penoff lwb...@yahoo.com
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] Heat pump. Was: overheating, heat wave and 300td
travel
 Message-ID: 23977710-0de2-44aa-aa58-69edcd652...@yahoo.com
 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii
 
 My HVAC guy in Indiana was trying to push us into doing geothermal for our 
 4000 sf house, since we needed AC and the furnace was a crappy 80 some 
 percent model.
 
 The payback was quite attractive, as were the incentives, but we still would 
 have paid about $11,000 out of pocket when all was said and done.
 
 One thing that was nice was a state property tax exemption for having the 
 system installed. Not sure if this was unique to Indiana, but it did help to 
 accelerate the payback.
 
 Dan
 
 Sent from my iPad
 
 On Jul 4, 2012, at 5:45 PM, OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 I think the coils are in ground water, not just dirt. I'll find out for
 sure in August, when we get ours installed. They are planning two 300 ft.
 deep holes for the loops.
 
 On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 3:09 PM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote:
 
 Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com writes:
 
 With ground-source, the heat pump's external coil should always
 be at ground temperature.  Ground temp it typically about 60
 degrees F, even when the air is -40 F.  So even in extreme cold,
 the difference is only 30 degrees.  Cooling is even easier.
 
 Here's something I've wondered though.  Dirt is a pretty good insulator.
 Do geothermal heat pumps not have a problem, in cooling mode, of the
 ground around the heat exchanger impeding heat transfer out of the
 system?  I guess they must not since they are widely used.
 
 Allan
 --
 1983 300D
 1979 300SD
 
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Re: [MBZ] Heat pump

2012-07-05 Thread rmassmann
I have a geothermal system that I sort of install as a kit in our new house. 
Kit came with two heat pumps the second is for our master heat zone, four 
six hundred foot coils of loop line and the loop manifold and pump system. 
It was about 10,000 dollars for all of it. And the company I bought it from 
was local, web site address is below. Our coils are arranged in multiple 
loops and at the bottom of a pond we had dug for the system. Pond is nine 
feet deep, although I do not think the pond is big enough as it does cool 
down in the winter ( to about 40 deg F) and warms in the summer. System has 
work very well the last four years. With a little bit of basic maintenance. 
Our electric bill is currently level billed at about 250 a month, our house 
is about 2200 sq ft house. Our previous house electric bill with propane 
heat and was 140 a month.http://www.geothermalheaters.com/



Bob Massmann
Oregonia, Ohio

-Original Message- 
From: OK Don

Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2012 5:45 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] Heat pump. Was: overheating, heat wave and 300td travel

I think the coils are in ground water, not just dirt. I'll find out for
sure in August, when we get ours installed. They are planning two 300 ft.
deep holes for the loops.

On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 3:09 PM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote:


Fmiser fmi...@gmail.com writes:

 With ground-source, the heat pump's external coil should always
 be at ground temperature.  Ground temp it typically about 60
 degrees F, even when the air is -40 F.  So even in extreme cold,
 the difference is only 30 degrees.  Cooling is even easier.

Here's something I've wondered though.  Dirt is a pretty good insulator.
Do geothermal heat pumps not have a problem, in cooling mode, of the
ground around the heat exchanger impeding heat transfer out of the
system?  I guess they must not since they are widely used.

Allan
--
1983 300D
1979 300SD

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--
OK Don
2001 ML320
2012 Passat TDI DSG
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager
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