Re: Cross cursor
Hi Klaus I've downloaded the latest IDE. After testing on Windows there are a few things to observe: 1. When the script editor is open and I use ctrl + f to find something in this window, the wrong find window opens (the one with the 3 options: partial words, whole words, case sensitive In stack ) Instead I have to close it first and then choose Tools -- Find in the script editor menu. 2. In the new Tools.mc there is an overlapping in the menu File: Open stack partially covers Ctrl+o. 3. And the cross cursor still appears from time to time. It happens when I use ctrl+o to open a stack when another stack already is open (but not always). It is actually the cursor belonging to the Scrollbar tool. Signe Marie Den 25. mai. 2007 kl. 20:16 skrev Klaus Major: Hi Signe Marie, Hi Klaus Sometimes (always?) when I have opened MC2.8.2 you mean 2.8.1 ;-) with the latest IDE and then use Ctrl + o to open an application, this opens with the cross cursor (if that is the name). What do you mean exactly? Whatt platform? Do you get the wrong cursor? Does the cursor change when you change the tool? I will be able to test on PC tomorrow then I can tell you more (hopefully). Signe Marie Regards Klaus Major [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.major-k.de ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: The Aborted Plunge (Metacard to Revolution)
On May 29, 2007, at 7:57 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: If Rev is a rose, compellingly colorful, MC is a lotus blossom, infinitely flowering. I sense a sonnet, nay... an ode to MC is on the way...;-) I've prepared a book cover for you: http://ezpzapps.com/Bodhidharma_sims.jpg Some time in the desert is a good thing Richard ;-) ciao, sims ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: The Aborted Plunge (Metacard to Revolution)
But why not do what a lot of us have done -- create something in Rev exclusively. When I decided to learn Rev, I just jumped in at the beginning and made a whole project in it. I set aside one stack that I forbid myself to open in MC. You learn it quick that way. :) I don't have the time to figure out how to appease it. I'm sure it is something simple, but without knowing exactly how it errors and where, it's hard to know what's wrong. If you feel like it, send me a copy of the problem stack, and I'll take a look at it in Rev if you want. I'm curious what errors you are getting and why. I have a newer project that I will probably do this with, or perhaps simpler projects. The adventure game can probably live harmoniously in both, as I haven't done anything weird with it yet. I have other projects that can probably live harmoniously in both. But the happy stack is highly complex, so many stacks, so many objects, and parts of the code are even hard for me to understand (I did that as an anti-piracy preventer). It even stumps the Script Debugger at times, so I don't use that either :-) Thank you for the offer, Jacque. You are very sweet :-) Shari -- Windows and Macintosh shareware games Blackjack Gold http://www.gypsyware.com ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: The Aborted Plunge (Metacard to Revolution)
Shari wrote: Richard wrote: The meta-question implied by all of this seems to be: Why switch? More specifically, what features in the Rev IDE make it interesting, and what could be done to the MC IDE to exceed it? The logic was two-fold the Metacard GUI is supported by volunteers. Anything supported by volunteers eventually gets very stressed. ... So.what are the odds that my beloved GUI will be around for a very long time? I hope my last post addressed that question. I maintain the belief that it's in the best interest of MC fans, Rev fans, and RunRev Ltd. to see that the MC IDE continues to be maintained and expanded. When a gene pool is too limited we get deformity. Diversity is nature's guide to success. I remember the disappearance of Hypercard, and the demise of that program hurt me. It hurt all of us, and none more so than Apple (yet I doubt they have anyone left with enough imagination to understand what it could have been; the world is bigger than Widgets). With HC the whole product died. The only thing that would prevent MC from running would be the demise of RunRev, in which case it wouldn't matter which IDE you'd been using. But as long as Rev is kicking, MC can continue dancing right alongside; they're both just a bunch of stack, and they both use the same engine. While it is a volunteer effort, the MC IDE is maintained by professionals who need to remain close to the engine. As long as there are developers who appreciate the benefits of clearly discerning the difference between development and runtime and enjoy streamlining their work by reducing these differences to the barest possible, there will be a future for MC. Long live the Revolution. Let's see if we can make it revolutionary. Having addressed the Why, let's look at the How: The second part of the logic was that yes, the Rev GUI has a few (and I do say few) things I seriously wish the MC GUI had. Historically the MC IDE project had maintained a mandate for minimal change to preserve the things we liked about it. As a baseline I think that mandate still has some value, but I have to admit that it's too sparse to let me get my work done efficiently by itself, which is why I invested the time making devolution. Maintaining the minimal-change mandate makes sense in many respects, and keeping it current lets use add the parts we want with plugins, which means they can also interoperate with Rev and Galaxy as well. This example is a good test case: One is the Search All Scripts function. This is pretty major. I cannot jump back and forth between the two GUI's to take advantage of one function or another, if my programs don't work in the Rev GUI. Even if your stacks could be moved back and forth without error, why bother with the extra work? Short-term: devolution has a GUI script search tool, allowing searches of all objects in a stack or the current message path. Longer-term: Who wants to write a Transcript equivalent of HC's ss command? Any problems with asking Klaus to put that in MC's backScript? The ability to set parameters for a standalone and have it remember my settings, so that every update I didn't have to do it again, would be nice. Remember, Rev has one-click builds because Ken and I have been using my Standalone Ranger for so long we insisted on it. :) Short-term: My Standalone Ranger is a front-end to MC's Standalone Builder, which lets you save the settings to a custom prop in the target stack's first card (yes, I know it's prop, but it's optional and you're made aware of what it's doing; no behind-you-back property hijacking). If you promise to provide feedback I can email it to you. Long-term: In my spare time I've been integrating MC's builder directly into my Standalone Ranger UI, with more options for an even easier build (taking advantage of RIP properties) and allowing it to be used in Rev as a plugin as well. This will take a bit to finish, but it puts an interesting twist on the build process which I think folks will find handy. This more complete implementation will provide all of the conveniences of Rev's, and then some. In some ways it has better documentation as well, though in others it fails pretty seriously. Agreed. Ideally we'd get a volunteer to be the owner for the mcDictionary project. There's an earlier version in MC Yahoo Group which grabs all the thousands of tiny XML files and puts them into a stack which can take advantage of the performance and flexibility of the object model. If someone would be willing to do the small task of updating that for the latest docs format (extra bonus points: convince RunRev to stop changing the format g), it may be good to include it with the IDE installation, perhaps replacing the outdated Dictionary stack it has now. I'm sure there are other things I cannot think of at the moment. I have one: simpler, smarter installation. I started down this road with FlipsIDE,
Call by reference array variables
Hi, My thanks to everyone who helps maintain the Metacard IDE. I was wondering if anyone knows how to fix the variable watcher so that it shows the value of a call by reference variable when that variable is an array. I've never studied the variable watcher code so I don't want to tinker with it if it's a known issue someone else is working on. Thanks, Tim Bleiler ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: Cross cursor
HI Signe Marie, Hi Klaus I've downloaded the latest IDE. After testing on Windows there are a few things to observe: 1. When the script editor is open and I use ctrl + f to find something in this window, the wrong find window opens (the one with the 3 options: partial words, whole words, case sensitive In stack ) Instead I have to close it first and then choose Tools -- Find in the script editor menu. Works here on my Mac, but will try later on my PC. 2. In the new Tools.mc there is an overlapping in the menu File: Open stack partially covers Ctrl+o. ??? See above... 3. And the cross cursor still appears from time to time. It happens when I use ctrl+o to open a stack when another stack already is open (but not always). It is actually the cursor belonging to the Scrollbar tool. Hmmm, see above. I will take a look later and will tell you. Signe Marie Best Klaus Major [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.major-k.de ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: The Aborted Plunge (Metacard to Revolution)
It hurt all of us, and none more so than Apple (yet I doubt they have anyone left with enough imagination to understand what it could have been; the world is bigger than Widgets). I thought I heard rumor recently of some new thing Apple was working on. I remember thinking that if they came out with any sort of xCode product, I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole because I wouldn't want to be ditched again. So yes, they did hurt themselves as well. I remember people were begging them to open source HC. It could have lived on and been expanded. In a way, it actually did, through all the efforts and hard work of Metacard. MC is what HC should have become, but never did. Long live the Revolution. Hear, hear! Long live the Revolution! Historically the MC IDE project had maintained a mandate for minimal change to preserve the things we liked about it. As a baseline I think that mandate still has some value, but I have to admit that it's too sparse to let me get my work done efficiently by itself, which is why I invested the time making devolution. I've heard of Devolution and Galaxy, but really don't know what they are. It is very confusing. Are they alternate IDE's, replacing the Metacard IDE? Or are they plugins to the MC IDE? Even if your stacks could be moved back and forth without error, why bother with the extra work? You hit upon the exact reason I thought it was worth looking into the Rev IDE. With the thought of an eventual switchover. But I just couldn't be happy in it, not now, not at this time. It's too irritating. (sad smile) Remember, Rev has one-click builds because Ken and I have been using my Standalone Ranger for so long we insisted on it. :) Short-term: My Standalone Ranger is a front-end to MC's Standalone Builder, which lets you save the settings to a custom prop in the target stack's first card (yes, I know it's prop, but it's optional and you're made aware of what it's doing; no behind-you-back property hijacking). If you promise to provide feedback I can email it to you. I would love to. I'm getting ready to turn the Happy Stack into a standalone in the next couple weeks (or more likely on Thursday.) It's an update, and has been made into a standalone maybe 20 versions by now? So it's an old pro. If any stack could give your SR a workout, this stack would ;-) If SR survived this project, I'd say it was built like a tank :-D Agreed. Ideally we'd get a volunteer to be the owner for the mcDictionary project. There's an earlier version in MC Yahoo Group which grabs all the thousands of tiny XML files and puts them into a stack which can take advantage of the performance and flexibility of the object model. I thought there was something like this in the works already? I seem to recall hearing about it a year or two ago? But I hadn't upgraded to Rev/MC yet, so couldn't partake of it. I seem to recall talk of something where anyone could share pieces of code, that would become part of a universal dictionary of sorts for Rev/MC. So I started sketching out it's successor, DarksIDE: a Rev plugin with just one button: Install MetaCard. It would do all the steps we currently do manually, from rebuilding the engine to downloading the IDE to importing the Dictionary content, putting everything into a new folder all tidy and ready to go. This reminds me, does the Standalone Ranger also update the infoplist and pkginfo files on MacOSX so that we don't have to go into the Contents folder and do it manually? Icons, too, by any chance? I have asked several times since using MC about searching all scripts, and never got a really good solution. I MISS the Hypercard ss function. That was awesome! It just took you to each instance, let you change it, then moved on to the next one. Was HC's script editor modal? I'd thought it wasn't. If not, how did ss suspend while the script was being edited? LOL! I have no idea. But no feature ever was missed more than this feature :-) There are many who expound on the benefits of open source. This is an opportunity to demonstrate those benefits, delivering an IDE which is to Rev what Firefox is to Internet Explorer. Firefox? Eh? Vat iz dis? Shari -- Windows and Macintosh shareware games Blackjack Gold http://www.gypsyware.com ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
Re: The Aborted Plunge (Metacard to Revolution)
On May 29, 2007, at 08:55:36 -0700, Richard Gaskin wrote: 1. Search (and edit) all scripts in a stack, including substacks 2. More advanced standalone saving 3. More detailed info in the Help docs a. Often the Help Index assumes you know something already, sometimes I want to learn something new, and the Help Index doesn't give me enough to even make the attempt, I must search thru the online archives in the hopes that somebody posted detailed code in answering somebody else's question. Even a line or two of example code would be useful, but often isn't there. Great summary. I think the path forward is an invitation to the open source advocates in the Rev community to put up: With Klaus maintaining his role in coordinating things (thank you Klaus!), we could use owners for these components just as we've had owners for other components (e.g. Ken's done a wonderful job managing the Variable Watcher). I'm willing to be owner of the Standalone Builder. Do we have folks here willing to take on Search and Docs? Concerning Docs it's sort of done already. 1) Wilhelm Sanke wrote excellent stack SearchDocs XML 2.6.1.mc a while ago. http://www.sanke.org/MetaMedia/Screenshots.htm Unfortunately it can process only pre vs 7.x Rev documentation (in operates on vs 2.6.1 to be precise) but it covers almost all my needs and the great strength of this solution is that it finds all instances of the search word, even in descriptions and comments. In a way it makes instant cross indexing of the whole documentation (Dictionary + FAQ + Topics) by given search word. 2) For the latest docs (Rev 2.8.1) I use a stack from Björnke http://bjoernke.com/runrev/stacks.php It works fine in MC (just drop it in MC plug-Ins folder, set the externals of this stack to RevXML and follow it's set up instructions. Stack would create folder with about 1500 XML files in it, but I can leave with that. It even has built in tool to customize it's own layout and I believe it can be easily adopted to use Ken's XML library instead of RevXML if needed. Concerning stack wide search, I guess like many of us, I wrote my own a while ago. It's sort of enhanced control browser that shows the structure of multiple stacks of interest and their substacks at once and can search scripts across them, even searches the script of unplaced Bg Groups if any. The problem is that the interface is ugly and definitely not user friendly. Besides, anything like such stack would deviate from the philosophy of a lightweight IDE. it's more like personal tool. As for HyperCard style ss script search, I think it should be possible to do in MC. All it takes is to hold execution of the ss search script while user edits the script of the object that contains search string. Execution can be hold with wait for messages, the problem is what should be the release trigger. Off the top of my head here is the ugly hack that would imitate HyperCard ss script search behavior on searchScript tSearchWhat,stackName -- ... snip.. repeat with curControl = 1 to the number of controls if the script of control curControl contains tSearchWhat then edit the script of control curControl of card curCard HoldTheExecution end if end repeat -- ... snip... end searchScript on HoldTheExecution put number of lines of the OpenStacks into N repeat until number of lines of the OpenStacks N if the commandkey is down and the shiftkey is down then exit to top -- just in case something goes wrong wait for messages end repeat end HoldTheExecution The idea is that when script editing is done, the user closes Script Editor stack by pressing enter key and searchScript handler moves to the script of the next object that contains search string. Now, there must be a lot of better ways to do that, I'm just saying that if one really wants to have the HyperCard style ss script search it should be possible to do it in MC. Best regards Tariel What other areas might we consider? The philosophy of a lightweight IDE continues to hold appeal for serious developers. If we can elevate MC's usability and affordances to meet or exceed Rev's while still holding true to that philosophy, I see no reason why any switching couldn't be happening in the other direction, just as it is with Galaxy. There are many who expound on the benefits of open source. This is an opportunity to demonstrate those benefits, delivering an IDE which is to Rev what Firefox is to Internet Explorer. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ metacard mailing list metacard@lists.runrev.com http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/metacard
