Re: pointer tool - author mode
Sivakatirswami wrote: John wrote: No. No. No. And, again, no. There should not be an author (a.k.a. edit) mode in MC. That was/is (at least one of) the major problems with Supercard. It violates the underlying metaphor: anything one does anywhere, anytime in MC (and hypercard) can generate messages that can (but need not) be responded to. Since I participated in precipating this thread moons ago before I had a grip on MC's mode of operation, I would like to chime in here and agree with Professor Volkey on the above. As a long time user of Supercard before, when the new Project Editor turned about to be a dead environment, it was really very disappointing, and I had to basically build into every single project under development my own development interface tools to avoid having to go back into the project editor for the slightest changes. Either that or shell out more money for Tangerine... MC's interface was a quantum leap out of that hobbled context. Agreed, let's not go back. I think by author mode the request may be for something very much like SuperCard -- in fact, to date it is unique to SuperCard. Let me explain: Yes, I think most would concur that SuperCard's Project Editor sucks. It's over-designed, and doesn't take into account the unique strengths and weaknesses of building such an editor in an xTalk. But the Project Editor, being written entirely in SuperTalk, is very much akin to MC's dev environment and Revolution in that regard. What SuperCard brought to the table that no other tool has yet provided (and which is probably the single most misunderstood and under-utilized part of the package) is SuperEdit: a separate application dedicated for layout tasks only, with all of the scrips turned _off_. Being C-based, it's lightning fast to work with, and being layout-only without scripts running, you can do things there that might be problematic if your project has handlers that respond to the pointer mode messages. Which reminds me: Another SuperCard nicety I've enjoyed is the suite of pointer mode messages which compliment the browse mode messages for mouse gestures. By separating the two, the author has a little more control over how the app responds in contexts which provide a pointer tool for the user. See the SC Script Language Guide for details on those -- an interesting read. Of course, there are so many things that MC does much more intelligently IMHO, such as the more flexible Group objects as opposed to backgrounds, the Player objects and their smooth-as-silk syntax, and often-better-than-I-ever-imagined language extensions like repeat for each, arrays, etc.But as much as MetaCard has proven the most capable xTalk I've worked with (makes the $10,000 Gain Momentum look like a dinosaur), there are a couple things SuperCard did that were very useful, and SuperEdit is probably the least appreciated of those. I wouldn't advocate building such a critter for MC (far too expensive with so many platforms to support), but there may be some benefit to taking a second look at SC's separate handler sets for browse and pointer modes. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation Multimedia Design and Development for Mac, Windows, UNIX, and the Web _ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com Tel: 323-225-3717 ICQ#60248349Fax: 323-225-0716 Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/ Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm Please send bug reports to [EMAIL PROTECTED], not this list.
Re: pointer tool - author mode (2)
On 23/4/01 11:06 pm, Monte Goulding [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is a very simple thingto add a button to the home stack to do this. Make a checkbox called lock messagges set the text align to center set the icon and the hilite icon to those locks on the icon palette put this in the script: on mouseUp set the lockMessages to the hilite of me end mouseUp This doesn't work - lockMessages is reset at the end of the handler. another good one to put on he home stack is selectGroupedControls Or use the toolbar in Rev... and Kevin on 04 May 2000 added responding to the same message: This will be supported from the first release of our development UI., presumably meaning to have such a static mode available in Revolution, which up to date in not the case.- There is indeed no static or author mode connected with the pointer tool, but there is - as announced - a suppress messages button in the development menu. Sorry again. This solution - or the connection with the pointer tool - should be definitely added to Metacard as well. This mode was non-trivial to implement and we didn't connect it to the pointer tool as we thought you wouldn't always want it to be active when in pointer tool mode. Its one click away on the toolbar though. Regards, Kevin Kevin Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution Limited - Power to the Developer! Tel: +44 (0)131 718 4333. Fax: +44 (0)1639 830 707. Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/ Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm Please send bug reports to [EMAIL PROTECTED], not this list.
Re: pointer tool - author mode
Monte Goulding on Tue, 24 Apr 2001 wrote It is a very simple thingto add a button to the home stack to do this. Make a checkbox called lock messagges set the text align to center set the icon and the hilite icon to those locks on the icon palette put this in the script: on mouseUp set the lockMessages to the hilite of me end mouseUp another good one to put on he home stack is selectGroupedControls You are right so far. That`s the beauty of it that you can customize Metacard to a certain extent. What I am suggesting, however, is to have a static or author mode as a *normal standard feature* of Metacard that is available to anyone - even to a beginner that tries to find out how Metacard works by looking at the scripts of the demo stack. I am also suggesting to connect this feature with the pointer tool, so that it is automatically invoked each time you want to do some authoring, creating an object, changing a script etc. It is presumably more user-friendly to have to use one control instead of two (and having to look where in the menu the second control has been placed). I propose to combine the suppress messages button with the pointer tool in Revolution, too Such a feature request of course may not have first priority, but if there is no compelling reason against a combination of the pointer tool and an author mode, it could be realized. Regards, Wilhelm Sanke Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/ Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm Please send bug reports to [EMAIL PROTECTED], not this list.
Re: pointer tool - author mode
on 4/24/01 9:53 AM, Wilhelm Sanke at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I am suggesting, however, is to have a static or author mode as a *normal standard feature* of Metacard that is available to anyone - even to a beginner that tries to find out how Metacard works by looking at the scripts of the demo stack. I am also suggesting to connect this feature with the pointer tool, so that it is automatically invoked each time you want to do some authoring, creating an object, changing a script etc. It is presumably more user-friendly to have to use one control instead of two (and having to look where in the menu the second control has been placed). I propose to combine the suppress messages button with the pointer tool in Revolution, too Such a feature request of course may not have first priority, but if there is no compelling reason against a combination of the pointer tool and an author mode, it could be realized. Regards, Wilhelm Sanke No. No. No. And, again, no. There should not be an author (a.k.a. edit) mode in MC. That was/is (at least one of) the major problems with Supercard. It violates the underlying metaphor: anything one does anywhere, anytime in MC (and hypercard) can generate messages that can (but need not) be responded to. So, even editing a script of an object is still just typing characters into a field of some stack --- as it should be. MC is modeless, as it should be. What's next, a clamour for separate edit, compile, link modes, and paper tape to save the programs on? -- 5. Although Sarah had an abnormal fear of mice, it did not keep her from eking out a living at a local pet store. -- Top 10 winner of the Bulwer Lytton Contest, wherein one writes only the first line of a bad novel. John R. Vokey, Ph.D. Chair Department of Psychology and Neuroscience University of Lethbridge Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/ Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm Please send bug reports to [EMAIL PROTECTED], not this list.
Re: pointer tool - author mode
On Tue, 24 Apr 2001, John Vokey wrote: on 4/24/01 9:53 AM, Wilhelm Sanke wrote What I am suggesting, however, is to have a static or author mode as a *normal standard feature* of Metacard that is available to anyone - even to a beginner that tries to find out how Metacard works by looking at the scripts of the demo stack. I am also suggesting to connect this feature with the pointer tool... (snip) Wilhelm Sanke No. No. No. And, again, no. There should not be an author (a.k.a. edit) mode in MC. That was/is (at least one of) the major problems with Supercard. It violates the underlying metaphor: anything one does anywhere, anytime in MC (and hypercard) can generate messages that can (but need not) be responded to. So, even editing a script of an object is still just typing characters into a field of some stack --- as it should be. MC is modeless, as it should be. What's next, a clamour for separate edit, compile, link modes, and paper tape to save the programs on? John R. Vokey, Ph.D. Chair Department of Psychology and Neuroscience University of Lethbridge I have the feeling that your emphatic no is caused by your experiences with the divided structure of Supercard, having indeed a separate editing mode as a different part of Supercard, which has to be launched as an extra file - or the other way round when you want to switch back to a browse mode (Excuse me in case the terminology is wrong, I do not have the Supercard user book at hand). To have a structure like Supercard is indeed very far from me. I very much disliked this aspect of Supercard. What I am advocating is to be able to stop the animated rabbit hopping across my screen immediately when I want to create an object or look at a script, and this with one mouseclick, and to go back to browse mode again with one mouseclick. Is the Revolution team also violating the underlying metapher with its suppress messages button? The only difference between them and myself is that I favor to have this author feature connected with the pointer tool, but I can also happily live with two mouseclicks instead of one as in Revolution.- Regards, Wilhelm Sanke Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/ Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm Please send bug reports to [EMAIL PROTECTED], not this list.
RE: pointer tool - author mode
As my messages on this topic so far have been duds I should keep quiet but I am a glutton for punishment. You can probably build a simple addin for rev by handling the revNewTool message that you can set in the addin manager to be sent to the addin. Check the name of the tool selected and the current status of the of the lock messages button on the menubar then take action accordingly. Thsi is a workaround but should enable you to have the function you look for. On Tue, 24 Apr 2001, John Vokey wrote: on 4/24/01 9:53 AM, Wilhelm Sanke wrote What I am suggesting, however, is to have a static or author mode as a *normal standard feature* of Metacard that is available to anyone - even to a beginner that tries to find out how Metacard works by looking at the scripts of the demo stack. I am also suggesting to connect this feature with the pointer tool... (snip) Wilhelm Sanke No. No. No. And, again, no. There should not be an author (a.k.a. edit) mode in MC. That was/is (at least one of) the major problems with Supercard. It violates the underlying metaphor: anything one does anywhere, anytime in MC (and hypercard) can generate messages that can (but need not) be responded to. So, even editing a script of an object is still just typing characters into a field of some stack --- as it should be. MC is modeless, as it should be. What's next, a clamour for separate edit, compile, link modes, and paper tape to save the programs on? John R. Vokey, Ph.D. Chair Department of Psychology and Neuroscience University of Lethbridge I have the feeling that your emphatic no is caused by your experiences with the divided structure of Supercard, having indeed a separate editing mode as a different part of Supercard, which has to be launched as an extra file - or the other way round when you want to switch back to a browse mode (Excuse me in case the terminology is wrong, I do not have the Supercard user book at hand). To have a structure like Supercard is indeed very far from me. I very much disliked this aspect of Supercard. What I am advocating is to be able to stop the animated rabbit hopping across my screen immediately when I want to create an object or look at a script, and this with one mouseclick, and to go back to browse mode again with one mouseclick. Is the Revolution team also violating the underlying metapher with its suppress messages button? The only difference between them and myself is that I favor to have this author feature connected with the pointer tool, but I can also happily live with two mouseclicks instead of one as in Revolution.- Regards, Wilhelm Sanke Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/ Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm Please send bug reports to [EMAIL PROTECTED], not this list. Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/ Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm Please send bug reports to [EMAIL PROTECTED], not this list.
pointer tool - author mode
Metacard is probably the only authoring system without an author mode that really stops all handlers in the scripts of a stack. I have seen the need for such a feature again twice during the last week - students trying to look at some of the scripts in the demo stack - a stack I was working on myself , where the opening black card blends completely with the black backdrop and then leads to another card with a visual effect triggered from the opencard handler of the first (black) card. To access the first card (for changing the script) is only possible through msg with lock messages; go to cd 1. This is not so simple as stated in the quoted message below, because you have to know how to do this. Additionally there is no information concerning the use of the msg in the helpfiles to use the semicolon when you want to send more than 1 command. From the earlier discussion: On May 3rd 2000 Scott wrote in response to Sivakatirswami: Whats needed is a global static mode. The solution is much simpler: just lock messages before you go to the card. For example running lock messages; go next in the message box will do what you want. Tuv Snyder told me he even put a button in the Navigator palette that allows selecting this behavior, a modification I recommend if you do this kind of thing a lot. Regards, Scott and Kevin on 04 May 2000 added responding to the same message: This will be supported from the first release of our development UI., presumably meaning to have such a static mode available in Revolution, which up to date in not the case.- I think we really could use an author or static mode as common in other authoring tools. Is not having an author mode in Metacard just a relic from earlier stages of development that never has been amended or are there specific advantages not to have such mode? The author mode could easily be connected to the pointer tool. Regards, Wilhelm Sanke Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/ Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm Please send bug reports to [EMAIL PROTECTED], not this list.
pointer tool - author mode (2)
Sorry, concerning Revolution I am at least 50% wrong: and Kevin on 04 May 2000 added responding to the same message: This will be supported from the first release of our development UI., presumably meaning to have such a static mode available in Revolution, which up to date in not the case.- There is indeed no static or author mode connected with the pointer tool, but there is - as announced - a suppress messages button in the development menu. Sorry again. This solution - or the connection with the pointer tool - should be definitely added to Metacard as well. Regards, Wilhelm Sanke Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/ Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm Please send bug reports to [EMAIL PROTECTED], not this list.
RE: pointer tool - author mode (2)
It is a very simple thingto add a button to the home stack to do this. Make a checkbox called lock messagges set the text align to center set the icon and the hilite icon to those locks on the icon palette put this in the script: on mouseUp set the lockMessages to the hilite of me end mouseUp another good one to put on he home stack is selectGroupedControls -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Wilhelm Sanke Sent: Tuesday, 24 April 2001 5:54 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: pointer tool - author mode (2) Sorry, concerning Revolution I am at least 50% wrong: and Kevin on 04 May 2000 added responding to the same message: This will be supported from the first release of our development UI., presumably meaning to have such a static mode available in Revolution, which up to date in not the case.- There is indeed no static or author mode connected with the pointer tool, but there is - as announced - a suppress messages button in the development menu. Sorry again. This solution - or the connection with the pointer tool - should be definitely added to Metacard as well. Regards, Wilhelm Sanke Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/ Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm Please send bug reports to [EMAIL PROTECTED], not this list. Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/metacard@lists.runrev.com/ Info: http://www.xworlds.com/metacard/mailinglist.htm Please send bug reports to [EMAIL PROTECTED], not this list.
