Re: [meteorite-list] In search of a hammer
Thanks for that gem, Ed!, List, This Googled up from the event: On the morning of August 9, 48 bc, Rome's most famous general--Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus, or Pompey the Great--apprehensively prepared his troops to face the army of Rome's most successful general, Gaius Julius Caesar. Pompey's unease was fueled by a meteor that had shot across the sky near his camp the night before. To some of his soldiers it was an ill omen. After quelling the disturbance caused by the meteor, Pompey retired to his tent. There he dreamed of being applauded by Rome's citizens as he dedicated a temple to the goddess Venus, Bringer of Victory. The dream must have made the great commander nervous. Venus was the goddess from whom Caesar's aristocratic clan, the Julians, claimed to be descended. Though unknown to Pompey at the time, Caesar had vowed that very day that if Venus brought him victory at Pharsalus he would build a great temple to her in Rome. ref: http://www.historynet.com/historical_conflicts/3030956.html Best Wishes and Great Health, Doug PS from the pay Internet reference JSTOR, we have: Pompeius Strabo met his death by lightning - Original Message - From: E.P. Grondine [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 4:38 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] In search of a hammer Hi all - Going through some notes from 2003, I found this: From Julius (IULII: OBSEQUENTIS AB ANNO URBIS CONDITAE DV PRODIGIORUM LIBER) Consulship of Gnaeus Octavius and Licius Cinna (87 BCE) 56a. While Cinna and Marius were displaying a cruel rage in their conduct of the civil war, at Rome in the camp of Gnaeus Pompeius [Strabo] the sky seems to fall, weapons and standards were hit, and soldiers struck dead. Pompeius [Strabo] himself was struck dead by the blast of a heavenly body. good hunting, Ed __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] In search of a hammer
Hi, Doug, List, In case this gets confusing to anybody who's reading this thread, we should explain that the dead one, Gnaeus Pompeius Strabo (nickname: Squinty), is the father of Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus (The Great). Some sources (not original, but contemporary ones) say merely that the elder Pompeius was killed on the field of battle; others that he was killed by lightning. That is clearly a case of an historian's reading of the text. Latin has a word for lightning. The Romans were familiar with lightning. Duh. If they meant lightning, wouldn't they have said lightning? Being struck by lightning is a familiar notion; in mythology, Enceladus, Mimas, Menoetius, Aristodemus and Capaneus, Idas, Iasion, and Asclepius all get struck by lightning. It's associated with getting Zeus (or Jove) pissed off at you. Julius says struck dead by the blast of a heavenly body. It's worthwhile to note that the blast has its origin in a heavenly body. No one, not even the old Romans, believes lightning originates in a body. Neither is Squinty struck BY the body. Nope, a blast from the body. What do the Roman know about hypersonic shock waves? Nothing, so how else could they describe it? I'd call this one a good reference for impact (or airburst). The problem is that after you've put together a list of 100 such incidents, the unconvinced remain unconvinced. It's all annecdotal. It's vague and not specific enough. Haven't you got any video? Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: MexicoDoug [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 5:57 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] In search of a hammer Thanks for that gem, Ed!, List, This Googled up from the event: On the morning of August 9, 48 bc, Rome's most famous general--Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus, or Pompey the Great--apprehensively prepared his troops to face the army of Rome's most successful general, Gaius Julius Caesar. Pompey's unease was fueled by a meteor that had shot across the sky near his camp the night before. To some of his soldiers it was an ill omen. After quelling the disturbance caused by the meteor, Pompey retired to his tent. There he dreamed of being applauded by Rome's citizens as he dedicated a temple to the goddess Venus, Bringer of Victory. The dream must have made the great commander nervous. Venus was the goddess from whom Caesar's aristocratic clan, the Julians, claimed to be descended. Though unknown to Pompey at the time, Caesar had vowed that very day that if Venus brought him victory at Pharsalus he would build a great temple to her in Rome. ref: http://www.historynet.com/historical_conflicts/3030956.html Best Wishes and Great Health, Doug PS from the pay Internet reference JSTOR, we have: Pompeius Strabo met his death by lightning - Original Message - From: E.P. Grondine [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 4:38 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] In search of a hammer Hi all - Going through some notes from 2003, I found this: From Julius (IULII: OBSEQUENTIS AB ANNO URBIS CONDITAE DV PRODIGIORUM LIBER) Consulship of Gnaeus Octavius and Licius Cinna (87 BCE) 56a. While Cinna and Marius were displaying a cruel rage in their conduct of the civil war, at Rome in the camp of Gnaeus Pompeius [Strabo] the sky seems to fall, weapons and standards were hit, and soldiers struck dead. Pompeius [Strabo] himself was struck dead by the blast of a heavenly body. good hunting, Ed __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NEW Plutonic Angrite The Mercury Question
When considering possible parent bodies, be it remembered there is a theory that the population of the inner planets of the early solar system consisted of many smaller planets that swept each other up to form fewer but larger planets. We may find meteorites who's parent body has long since melded with others or even ejected from the solar system. Elton __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] In search of a hammer
Hi Sterling, Doug list , - lightning and/or heavenly body (as far as it's not concerning the misstress of the Emperor ;-) - well: Plinius quotes Sotakos' (3rd cent. b.c.) unfortunately lost tractatus on stones, mentioning that the baityloi (sacred stones) belong to the class of keraunia, the so called lightning stones which can be found at lightning-stroken places. That could of course mean a rock hit by lightning. But, other theory: the old Greek and Romans (f.e. Philon of Byblos) called the baityloi also lithoi empsychoi (animated stones); they've been worshipped above all in Syria but also in the old Nabatean culture (with Petra as a central place / today's Jordan) as well as in Arabian pre-islamic nomad-cultures. Antique sources define the baityloi as arrived from heaven, single or together in swarms, round shaped with differing size and color, travelling very fast and accompanied by strong light and sound effects. So, probably baityloi - keraunia - meteorites could be synonymous. Would be interesting to do a serious research on this subject. A nice weekend to all, Matthias - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: E.P. Grondine [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 9:29 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] In search of a hammer Hi, Doug, List, In case this gets confusing to anybody who's reading this thread, we should explain that the dead one, Gnaeus Pompeius Strabo (nickname: Squinty), is the father of Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus (The Great). Some sources (not original, but contemporary ones) say merely that the elder Pompeius was killed on the field of battle; others that he was killed by lightning. That is clearly a case of an historian's reading of the text. Latin has a word for lightning. The Romans were familiar with lightning. Duh. If they meant lightning, wouldn't they have said lightning? Being struck by lightning is a familiar notion; in mythology, Enceladus, Mimas, Menoetius, Aristodemus and Capaneus, Idas, Iasion, and Asclepius all get struck by lightning. It's associated with getting Zeus (or Jove) pissed off at you. Julius says struck dead by the blast of a heavenly body. It's worthwhile to note that the blast has its origin in a heavenly body. No one, not even the old Romans, believes lightning originates in a body. Neither is Squinty struck BY the body. Nope, a blast from the body. What do the Roman know about hypersonic shock waves? Nothing, so how else could they describe it? I'd call this one a good reference for impact (or airburst). The problem is that after you've put together a list of 100 such incidents, the unconvinced remain unconvinced. It's all annecdotal. It's vague and not specific enough. Haven't you got any video? Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: MexicoDoug [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 5:57 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] In search of a hammer Thanks for that gem, Ed!, List, This Googled up from the event: On the morning of August 9, 48 bc, Rome's most famous general--Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus, or Pompey the Great--apprehensively prepared his troops to face the army of Rome's most successful general, Gaius Julius Caesar. Pompey's unease was fueled by a meteor that had shot across the sky near his camp the night before. To some of his soldiers it was an ill omen. After quelling the disturbance caused by the meteor, Pompey retired to his tent. There he dreamed of being applauded by Rome's citizens as he dedicated a temple to the goddess Venus, Bringer of Victory. The dream must have made the great commander nervous. Venus was the goddess from whom Caesar's aristocratic clan, the Julians, claimed to be descended. Though unknown to Pompey at the time, Caesar had vowed that very day that if Venus brought him victory at Pharsalus he would build a great temple to her in Rome. ref: http://www.historynet.com/historical_conflicts/3030956.html Best Wishes and Great Health, Doug PS from the pay Internet reference JSTOR, we have: Pompeius Strabo met his death by lightning - Original Message - From: E.P. Grondine [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 4:38 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] In search of a hammer Hi all - Going through some notes from 2003, I found this: From Julius (IULII: OBSEQUENTIS AB ANNO URBIS CONDITAE DV PRODIGIORUM LIBER) Consulship of Gnaeus Octavius and Licius Cinna (87 BCE) 56a. While Cinna and Marius were displaying a cruel rage in their conduct of the civil war, at Rome in the camp of Gnaeus Pompeius [Strabo] the sky seems to fall, weapons and standards were hit, and soldiers struck dead. Pompeius [Strabo] himself was struck dead by the blast of a heavenly body. good hunting, Ed __ Do
Re: [meteorite-list] NEW Plutonic Angrite The Mercury Question
--- Mr EMan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: When considering possible parent bodies, be it remembered there is a theory that the population of the inner planets of the early solar system consisted of many smaller planets that swept each other up to form fewer but larger planets. We may find meteorites who's parent body has long since melded with others or even ejected from the solar system. Elton This is true. NWA 3133 springs to mind when describing this very scenario. Rob McC __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] trade offer (AD)
Hi list.Simple and 2 the point.I have decided after long thought to trade my 1 piece of NWA 1685,112 gram whole stone.I am looking for either nice flowlined gao's or sikote-alins or super looking multi thumbprinted campo's.Let me know off-list. steve Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!! Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999!! www.chicagometeorites.net.Specializing in Gao Meteorites! Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] In search of a hammer
Hi Sterling - Haven't you got any video? I suppose if I had ever finished my note and it had of ever gone out, all that I would have needed to add would have been sex, lots of affairs, sex, castration, pederastry, torture, sex, maimings, battles; and voila Rome for HBO. Oh well. By the way, sheep's livers are silver when freshly extracted. good hunting, Ed --- Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Doug, List, In case this gets confusing to anybody who's reading this thread, we should explain that the dead one, Gnaeus Pompeius Strabo (nickname: Squinty), is the father of Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus (The Great). Some sources (not original, but contemporary ones) say merely that the elder Pompeius was killed on the field of battle; others that he was killed by lightning. That is clearly a case of an historian's reading of the text. Latin has a word for lightning. The Romans were familiar with lightning. Duh. If they meant lightning, wouldn't they have said lightning? Being struck by lightning is a familiar notion; in mythology, Enceladus, Mimas, Menoetius, Aristodemus and Capaneus, Idas, Iasion, and Asclepius all get struck by lightning. It's associated with getting Zeus (or Jove) pissed off at you. Julius says struck dead by the blast of a heavenly body. It's worthwhile to note that the blast has its origin in a heavenly body. No one, not even the old Romans, believes lightning originates in a body. Neither is Squinty struck BY the body. Nope, a blast from the body. What do the Roman know about hypersonic shock waves? Nothing, so how else could they describe it? I'd call this one a good reference for impact (or airburst). The problem is that after you've put together a list of 100 such incidents, the unconvinced remain unconvinced. It's all annecdotal. It's vague and not specific enough. Haven't you got any video? Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: MexicoDoug [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 5:57 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] In search of a hammer Thanks for that gem, Ed!, List, This Googled up from the event: On the morning of August 9, 48 bc, Rome's most famous general--Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus, or Pompey the Great--apprehensively prepared his troops to face the army of Rome's most successful general, Gaius Julius Caesar. Pompey's unease was fueled by a meteor that had shot across the sky near his camp the night before. To some of his soldiers it was an ill omen. After quelling the disturbance caused by the meteor, Pompey retired to his tent. There he dreamed of being applauded by Rome's citizens as he dedicated a temple to the goddess Venus, Bringer of Victory. The dream must have made the great commander nervous. Venus was the goddess from whom Caesar's aristocratic clan, the Julians, claimed to be descended. Though unknown to Pompey at the time, Caesar had vowed that very day that if Venus brought him victory at Pharsalus he would build a great temple to her in Rome. ref: http://www.historynet.com/historical_conflicts/3030956.html Best Wishes and Great Health, Doug PS from the pay Internet reference JSTOR, we have: Pompeius Strabo met his death by lightning - Original Message - From: E.P. Grondine [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 4:38 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] In search of a hammer Hi all - Going through some notes from 2003, I found this: From Julius (IULII: OBSEQUENTIS AB ANNO URBIS CONDITAE DV PRODIGIORUM LIBER) Consulship of Gnaeus Octavius and Licius Cinna (87 BCE) 56a. While Cinna and Marius were displaying a cruel rage in their conduct of the civil war, at Rome in the camp of Gnaeus Pompeius [Strabo] the sky seems to fall, weapons and standards were hit, and soldiers struck dead. Pompeius [Strabo] himself was struck dead by the blast of a heavenly body. good hunting, Ed __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD: Imilac meteorites, whole specimens!
To all, I have decided to sell some of my best Imilac finds made in 1996. Sizes range from a few grams to about 100 grams. I have set aside a few for a friend, but many of the others I now wish to sell. (Got to pay some important bills) Some of these actually have traces of fusion crust! Which to me is very surprising. I have one 98 gram piece with traces of fusion crust and this flattened specimen appears to be oriented. My price for any and all of my specimens is $7 per/gram, which I think is very reasonable, considering the quality of these fragments. If interested, please e-mail me privately with what sizes you might be interested in and I will send you photos and prices for each. I will, reluctantly take PayPal, but prefer Cashiers Checks or Money Orders. Address the title in large caps and bold IMILAC so as to separate them from all the spam that fills my inbox. I will answer in the order received. Thanks, Steve Schoner IMCA 4470 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2007 info
Dear List, The circular describing the 8th international meteorite show « Ensisheim 2007 » is ready. You can find it at the following web site (from next Monday April 16 on): http://meteorite.ensisheim.free I can also provide the circular (in English or French) by mail, on request. The main characteristics/changes/warnings? of the 2007 editions are (among) the following: Dates: June 16 and 17, 2007 (week-end preceding the St Marie mineral show). Friday 15 is the ?dealers day?. 2007 theme: Meteorites: weird shapes, internal beauties. Illustrated by a dual lecture on Saturday by Z. Gabelica (?odd morphologies??) R. Warin (?Thin sections: open windows to cosmology?) as well as by the usual permanent thematic exhibit: ?meteorite samples involving unusual external shapes and strange sections? from private collections?? (btw: we still need samples for display. Please contact me off list). Alain Carion will exhibit in a side-window of the museum, in preview, a fragment of the new French meteorite ?Saint-Ouen-en-Champagne?. This is our ?wild card?? On Sunday, Nico Mettler (Winterthur, CH) will describe his recent 1000+ km expedition through the Great Sand Sea desert (Lybia-Egypt) in search for Lybian Desert Glass (LDG) samples, through a lecture entitled ?LDG: a quest for an enigma?. The Regency walls will be decorated by original drawings of our young artists, featuring ?Meteorite hunting in hot deserts? (a contest). Friday PARTY: As in 2006 a dinner-party (absolutely unavoidable!) is again scheduled on Friday June 15 (from 19:00) at ?La Couronne? hotel, in their outside resort (as in 2006, we have asked the weather to co-operate...). Party can end any time. Two special meals are proposed, 25 euro, everything included, except beverage (hey, if beverage were included, bankrupt of ?La Couronne? guaranteed!). Everybody (organizers, dealers, close friends, ?loose? friends, relatives, related?) attending (or not) the enthroning ceremonies and the ?friendly drink? that follows (Friday late afternoon, about 18:00), is welcome! Fun guaranteed! (Ask the 70+ last year participants!). And ask for a wake-up call if you don?t want to miss the start of the ?meteorite hot rush? the next morning? Other meals: Saturday and Sunday lunches (served at ?La Couronne?) and the Saturday dinner (traditional ?roasted wild boar? served on the main ?dancing? square) will now be prepared by the team of cooks from ?La Couronne?. Friendly prices (17.5 euro for a complete menu) were negotiated. If you want the special vintage ?Ensisheim-Meteorite 1492? Pinot Gris to accompany your meals, it can be permanently available at its tag price. The Guardians Confraternity is still permanently providing all other traditional snacks, including the very popular ?tarte flambée? (alsacian pie), all served outside, on the main square (or inside the sun-protected tent, - rain is neither invited nor envisaged). All the other activities on the main square (beer, wine sale, beer, tee shirts, beer?) are maintained. Accomodation: Besides the 3 traditional hotels (Couronne, Niemerich, Cheval Blanc), the brand new hotel ?Le Domaine du Moulin? is now open. It has the ?La Couronne? standard (4 stars) and is as close to the Regency (200 m ? or more, depending on how thirsty you were during the parties?). I haven?t visited it yet but heard that a double room, breakfast included, costs around 70-75 euro, a reasonable price even with the stronger euro). 5 new ?brothers?. This year, Anne Black (US), Reiner Bartoschewitz (D, Gifhorn organizer) wife, Alex Seidel (D) and Serge Neunlist (F, our university president and?new meteorite lover) will become the new Guardians. (Gosh, I have the feeling having forgotten someone?) What is maintained in 2007: Table prices, entrance fee (4 euro for adults), table number (limited to 55) and their positions in rooms, reservation procedure (just write me!) and contacts. Also?Marcin?s cutting saw on the main square. And the FUNNY (crazy ?) characteristic and ever smiling ambience, of course! What is not maintained: Just meteorites sold in 2006. Thus much, much new and hot (or cold!) stuff! I bet some of the beauties to be offered are yet to be found?.We expect a great 2007 ?vintage?! Ensisheim meteorite repositories: My recently updated compilation of Ensisheim meteorite repositories will be distributed to all participants. (hey, it is more than time to provide me the kilos you have hidden in your collection!) Warning: Many people did already reserve their tables by mail. I will now be starting compiling their requests and finalize their places. HOWEVER, as I had several periods of mail troubles, may I ask everyone who did already reserve a table in the past, to CONFIRM THEIR RESERVATION (mail) once again from now on ? This is easier for me to handle, and safer for you. We still have free tables. I recommend you
[meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2007 show info
Dear List, The circular describing the 8th international meteorite show « Ensisheim 2007 » is ready. You can find it at the following web site (from next Monday April 16 on): http://meteorite.ensisheim.free I can also provide the circular (in English or French) by mail, on request. The main characteristics/changes/warnings? of the 2007 editions are (among) the following: Dates: June 16 and 17, 2007 (week-end preceding the St Marie mineral show). Friday 15 is the ?dealers day?. 2007 theme: Meteorites: weird shapes, internal beauties. Illustrated by a dual lecture on Saturday by Z. Gabelica (?odd morphologies??) R. Warin (?Thin sections: open windows to cosmology?) as well as by the usual permanent thematic exhibit: ?meteorite samples involving unusual external shapes and strange sections? from private collections?? (btw: we still need samples for display. Please contact me off list). Alain Carion will exhibit in a side-window of the museum, in preview, a fragment of the new French meteorite ?Saint-Ouen-en-Champagne?. This is our ?wild card?? On Sunday, Nico Mettler (Winterthur, CH) will describe his recent 1000+ km expedition through the Great Sand Sea desert (Lybia-Egypt) in search for Lybian Desert Glass (LDG) samples, through a lecture entitled ?LDG: a quest for an enigma?. The Regency walls will be decorated by original drawings of our young artists, featuring ?Meteorite hunting in hot deserts? (a contest). Friday PARTY: As in 2006 a dinner-party (absolutely unavoidable!) is again scheduled on Friday June 15 (from 19:00) at ?La Couronne? hotel, in their outside resort (as in 2006, we have asked the weather to co-operate). Party can end any time. Two special meals are proposed for 25 euro, everything included, except beverage (hey, if beverage were included, bankrupt of ?La Couronne? guaranteed!). Everybody (organizers, dealers, close friends, ?loose? friends, relatives, related?) attending (or not) the enthroning ceremonies and the ?friendly drink? that follows (Friday late afternoon, about 18:00), is welcome! Fun guaranteed! (Ask the 70+ last year participants!). And ask for a wake-up call if you don?t want to miss the start of the ?meteorite hot rush? the next morning? Other meals: Saturday and Sunday lunches (served at ?La Couronne?) and the Saturday dinner (traditional ?roasted wild boar? served on the main ?dancing? square) will now be prepared by the team of cooks from ?La Couronne?. Friendly prices (17.5 euro for a complete menu) were negotiated. If you wish the special vintage ?Ensisheim-Meteorite 1492? Pinot Gris to accompany your meals, it will be permanently available at its tag price. The Guardians Confraternity is still permanently providing all other traditional snacks, including the very popular ?tarte flambée? (alsacian pie), all served outside on the main square (or inside the sun-protected tent, - rain is neither invited nor envisaged). All the other activities on the main square (beer, wine sale, beer, tee shirts, beer?) are maintained. Accomodation: Besides the 3 traditional hotels (La Couronne, Niemerich, Cheval Blanc), the brand new hotel ?Le Domaine du Moulin? is now open. It has the ?La Couronne? standard (4 stars) and is as close to the Regency (200 m ? or more, depending on how thirsty you were during the parties?). I haven?t visited it yet but heard that a double room, breakfast included, costs around 70-75 euro, a reasonable price even with the stronger euro). 5 new ?brothers?. This year, Anne Black (US), Reiner Bartoschewitz (D, Gifhorn organizer) wife, Alex Seidel (D) and Serge Neunlist (F, our university president and?new meteorite lover) will become the new Guardians. (Gosh, I have the feeling having forgotten someone?) What is maintained in 2007: Table prices, entrance fee (4 euro for adults), table number (limited to 55) and their positions in rooms, reservation procedure (just write me!) and contacts. Also?Marcin?s cutting saw on the main square. And the FUNNY (crazy ?) characteristic and ever smiling ambience, of course! What is not maintained: Just meteorites sold in 2006 Thus much, much new and hot (or cold!) stuff! I bet some of the beauties to be offered are yet to be found?.We expect a great 2007 ?vintage?! Ensisheim meteorite repositories: My recently updated compilation of Ensisheim meteorite repositories will be distributed to all participants. (hey, it is more than time to provide me the kilos(!) you have hidden in your collection!) Warning: Many people did already reserve their tables by mail. I will now be starting compiling their requests and finalize their places. HOWEVER, as I had several periods of mail troubles, may I ask everyone who did already reserve a table in the past, to CONFIRM THEIR RESERVATION (mail) once again from now on ? This is easier for me to handle, and safer for you. We still have free tables. I
[meteorite-list] In search of a hammer
Well, Sterling, There was a difference between haruspicy and astromancy. How and when they became secret is the issue at hand. Were they already mysterious at the time of the founding of the Empire? Or did they become secret with the founding of the college? For the problem at hand, the important information is where that army was when it was hit. Any ideas on that? good hunting, Ed --- Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ed, Because of the way topic thread titles are re-cycled by email, THIS was the chief response to your post, but the secondary chatty one is what everybody read, assuming duplicate posts. I think you'll find this more interesting. Sterling - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: E.P. Grondine [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 12:03 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] In search of a hammer Hi, E.P., List E. P. wrote: to put it mildly, this was a hot political topic. The suppression of Etruscan astromancy... actually began with... Cicero... Julius's work represents the last real vestige of Etruscan astromancy... I agree that it was a hot, very hot, topic, but I disagree utterly that Imperial Rome dumped haruspicy and all the other divinatory arts, or forgot them, or ignored them, and here's why... Haruspicy and traditional Eutruscan Auspices continued in practice. Tiberius Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus, the emperor Claudius, of I, Claudius fame, was a student of Etruscan language and arts and opened a college to preserve and improve the auspicial arts, which institution lasted until well into the reign of Theodosius I, almost five centuries later. Claudius wrote a 20-scroll book about Eutruscan language, history and religion, entitled Tyrrenike, only one of his several works on the Eutruscans. Here's where things start to sound fishy. One encounters statements in professional historians' work (who are these guys?) that go like this: Only a few educated Romans with antiquarian interests, such as Varro, could read Etruscan. The last person known to have been able to read Etruscan was Claudius and his books were quickly forgotten and lost. Let me get this straight. There's The Roman Imperial College of Haruspicy and the Eutruscan Arts of Divination, in business and thriving for four to five centuries, turning out thousands of graduates over those centuries, AND YET, they lose all the books that teach the language, forget their knowledge of the language, the language that the Libri Haruspicini were written in?! Does this seem likely? Logical? Expected? Or does it offend reason? And, more importantly, is it true? OK, this is where I insert the 317 long boring paragraphs detailing that haruspicy flourished and was widespread and was taken very seriously for many centuries after the point where you say it was forgotten. Well, you can heave a big sigh of relief because I'm going to skip them (hooray!) and fast forward to 408 AD when the Goths under Alaric beseiged Rome and starved it in an attempt to blackmail the Emperor into paying up what he owed the Goths. The haruspices stepped forward and offered their services to help save the City, even in a Christian Empire. And, surprise, Pope Innocent I welcomed their aid (welcomed pagan priests?!), so long as their rituals were kept secret. I repeat, so long as their rituals were kept secret. It would appear that the Pope believed in the Auspices, too... And at long last, we reach the KEY word: SECRET. We modern enlightened types just can't take Greek or Roman religious concepts, beliefs and practices seriously. We teach mythology to our children like it was fairie tales, entertainment. THE ROMANS BELIEVED THEIR RELIGION AS MUCH AS ANYBODY. The Greeks and Romans believed their religion as much as martyrs believe the faith they die for, as much as Usamah bin Laden believes God wants him to kill us, as much as the Pope believes in Catholicism. What is Divination? It is a secret and certain knowledge of the future. It reveals to The Rulers what is going to happen, where, when, and how, what is the right policy, the right war, how to fight it, who your enemies are... all the stuff worth knowing. What does that sound like to you? What, in our own modern scientific society, do we call that? When we write the Auspices down for the Emperor, what do we call it? Good Guess! It's called the National Intelligence Estimate! We have many Colleges of Haruspectelligence, many Guilds, many Priesthoods and varieties, the CIApex, the NSApex, more than a dozen (that we know about), and the one thing that we all agree on is that their Augeries MUST be kept SECRET,
[meteorite-list] AD iron-meteorite elemente set
Hello List, for the iron collector who wants to give his collection a scientific touch, we have sets of pure iron meteorite related elements. Iron and Nickel of course and the three classification related elements Gallium, Germanium and Iridium. www.meteoritenhaus.de/img/IronSet.jpg The Elements are high purity laboratory quality: Fe Iron 99.95% Ni Nickel 99.9% Ga Gallium 99.99% Ge Germanium 99.% Ir Iridium 99.95% The price depends on filling quantity. examples: Set1: Fe 0.80g Ni 0.71g Ga 0.64g Ge 0.30g Ir 0.16g28.95$ Set2: Fe 1.02g Ni 0.77g Ga 0.76g Ge 0.36g Ir 0.18g32.15$ Set3: Fe 1.07g Ni 0.92g Ga 0.88g Ge 0.43g Ir 0.18g34.15$ Set4: Fe 1.82g Ni 2.04g Ga 0.91g Ge 0.50g Ir 0.24g40.50$ (pictured) Shipping: Germany 3$ Europe 5$US/World 10$ Thanks Have a nice weekend Andi __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] In search of a hammer - correction of de divinatione date
Hi all - Naturally, the striking of the spears and standards would point to lightening, and that's one reason why I left it. But the sky seems to fall, and the blast of a heavenly body? Any orbital mechanicians want to try this one? Anyone want to try and locate the army's camp? good hunting, Ed A FEW FACTS ABOUT THE ROLES OF POLITICAL AND RELIGIOUS FACTORS IN THE SUPPRESSION OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF IMPACTS DURING THE YEARS OF THE COLLAPSE OF THE ROMAN REPUBLIC While it is true that the Church's Platonic orthodoxy was rather strictly enforced for 1600 years or so, in point of fact that suppression of impact knowledge began long before the Church ever gained power. But it turns out that a major Roman political leader was killed by fulmine some 400 years before the Church ever gained much power: From Julius (IULII: OBSEQUENTIS AB ANNO URBIS CONDITAE DV PRODIGIORUM LIBER) Consulship of Gnaeus Octavius and Licius Cinna (87 BCE) 56a. While Cinna and Marius were displaying a cruel rage in their conduct of the civil war, at Rome in the camp of Gnaeus Pompeius [Strabo] the sky seems to fall, weapons and standards were hit, and soldiers struck dead. Pompeius [Strabo] himself was struck dead by the blast of a heavenly body. and to put it mildly, this was a hot political topic. The suppression of Etruscan astromancy and knowledge of impact lore actually thus actually began with Senate loyalist Cicero's deprecations of it in De haruspicum Responsis (56 BCE) and De Divinatione (45 BCE), works which he wrote in support of Pompeius Magnus, Pompeius Strabo's son, and against Caesar, who held the office of Pontifex Maximus, head of the haruspex. But events will take yet a stranger turn. As Julius's work represents the last real vestige of Etruscan astromancy and impact lore, establishing its date is essential. Now it is widely held that Julius himself extracted his haruspex's records from the history of Rome which was written by Titus Livy, who lived 59 BCE - 17 CE; Livy is thought to have begun writing his history around 29 BCE, and it is commonly held that Julius's wrote his work much, much later than 17 CE. But a problem with this dating scenario is that the poet and astronomer Manilius appears to paraphrase part of Julius's work in his Astonomica at IV.45-62, and Manilius is known to have written this particular work spanning the time of the Emperor Augustus's death in 14 CE. (For the date of the composition of the Astronomica definitively established by J.P. Good, see Manilius, Astronomica, J.P. Good translation, Loeb Classical Library, page xiii). Therefore Julius's work or a part of it was must have been written before 14 CE. Were Julius's own personal name Julius not enough, his conspicuous use of the name Caesar for Octavian, a usage which Julius Caesar's nephew Octavian (later known as Augustus, the first Roman Emperor) himself ferociously advocated, marks the work as having been written for the most part early in Octavian's campaign for absolute power, if not indeed even earlier. Julius's anti-Pompey bias is clearly demonstrated by his reminder again of Pompey Strabo's death by fulmine in his entry for Strabo's son Pompey Magnus's death in 46 BCE. All of this brings us to a possible reason why Julius wrote the work in the first place - as a piece of political propaganda first for Julius Caesar, and then for Octavian. Seen in another light, as the office of Emperor was entirely of Octavian's (Augustus's) own making, and without precedent in Roman politics, there must have been a strong concern among the haruspex as to what role they would play in the new political order. Quid pro quo, the influence of the haruspex over the traditional republicans who normally would abhor an emperor with the deepest of passions must have been considerable. In short, at this point in time, Etruscan astromancy and its knowledge of impact events was again being promoted, for the same reason Cicero had for be-littling it. While the anti-Pompey bias of Julius's work is datable to sometime around Pompei's defeat by Julius Caesar, say 49-46 BCE, there are yet other political considerations which allow us to further refine the date of the composition. Following Caesar's murder by the Senate, his nephew and heir Octavian (Augustus) marched on Rome; in the meantime, Caesar's supporter Marcus Antonius (Anthony) moved to take on a general supported by the Senate, one Decimus Junius Brutus Albinus. After Antony's defeat of the consuls sent against him by the Senate, Octavian gained authority from that same Senate to move against Anthony. The first thing which Octavian did with his new authority was to shore up his position in Rome; and then through the offices of Antonius's supporter, Marcus Aemilius Lepidus, Octavian promptly entered into a new coalition with Lepidus and Anthony, yet another triumvirate, to take on those generals supporting the very same Senate which had appointed him in the first
[meteorite-list] TEST -- DELETE PLEASE
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Re: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2007 info
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] What is maintained in 2007: Table prices, entrance fee (4 euro for adults), table number (limited to 55) and their positions in rooms, reservation procedure (just write me!) and contacts. Also?Marcin?s cutting saw on the main square. Yes, my machine will be ready to cut all Your lunar, venus and planet X material. And I hope that it will be sold there :) So if You need a good saw, then its a good place to test it and decide. -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- http://www.Meteoryt.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.PolandMET.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM +48(607)535 195 [ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] LOCATION of a hammer
Hi, Ed, List, Where was Pompeius Strabo when he died? Pretty sure it was in the immediate vicinity of Rome itself, outside the walls and within, say 20 Roman miles and probably 10. Encyclopedia Brit., 11th Ed., says Gnaeus Pompeius Strabo died of the plague, and that a mob dragged his body through the streets until a tribune interceded. The legion that Strabo raised were from, and were based at, Picenum up north, and his son took them back there after the old man's death. Picenum was home. Gnaeus Pompeius Strabo, often referred to as Strabo or Pompey Strabo in English, was a Roman from the rural province of Picenum. He became the first of the Pompeii to achieve senatorial status in Rome, despite the anti-rural prejudice of the Roman Senate. After proving his military talent, Strabo climbed the cursus honorum and became consul in the year 89 BC, in the midst of the Social War. That a war against the Socii, or Allies, other Italian cities who usually sided with Rome but were upset at their treatment at the hands of the Romans. Strabo commanded Roman forces against these Italian Allies in the northern part of Italy. His three Roman legions were instrumental in Rome's victory. After his consulship and the war, Strabo retired to Picenum with all of his veteran soldiers. He remained there until 87 BC, when he responded to Lucius Cornelius Sulla's request for help against Gaius Marius. Strabo besieged Rome, but died before any battle could be fought. This would seem to pinpoint his location. Strabo's son, the famous Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus (Pompey the Great), took the legions back to Picenum. Says the Wiki: Strabo had the habit of playing both ends against the middle in the intense politics of the period. Sulla arranged to remove Strabo from the command and replace him with a handpicked confederate. Strabo left camp on personal business while his soldiers killed the replacement. This was apparently outside of Rome (if beseiging it). Sulla's replacement, who Strabo's troops killed, was the consul Q. Pompeius Rufus, poor dum SOB. There seems no doubt that Strabo was at Rome: Strabo, whose duty [to Sulla] it was to defend Rome against Cinna and Marius, negotiates with Cinna, but dies during the general epidemic [in 87 BC]. The Romans started their year in the dead of winter, like we do, on January 1.* So, there was at Rome at one and the same time, a civil war, an epidemic of type unknown, and an army-killing lightning, blast, impact, or airburst event. I'd say the omens at that moment were NOT good, wouldn't you? If it was at Rome or nearby, you can forget looking for any traces as few places on Earth have been more chewed up, for thousands of years, than the general neighborhood of Rome! *The Roman civil year started on 1st January and its use continued until the seventh century AD. The Christian Church generally wished to move towards using one of its major festivals as the start of the year, and Christmas Day was used from the time of Bede (AD 672 or 673 to 735) until the twelfth century. The Feast of the Annunciation, 25th March, started to be used in the ninth century as the beinginning of the calendar year in parts of southern Europe, but only became widespread in Europe from the eleventh century and in England from the late twelfth. It then held sway until the sixteenth century. 1st January then started to be used as the start of the year, starting in Venice in 1522. Dates when this change was made in some other countries are: 1544 Germany; 1556 Spain, Portugal, the Catholic Netherlands; 1559 Prussia, Denmark, Sweden; 1564 France; 1579 Lorraine; 1583 the Protestant Netherlands; 1600 Scotland; 1725 Russia; 1721 Tuscany; and finally in 1752, England and her colonies. So, when you read that something happened in February, 1630, in London, it was really February, 1631 by our way of reckoning. Annoying. But for the Romans, it's not a problem. As for Augustus consolidating power slowly: In 22 BC, Augustus resigns his eleventh consulship, probably because of illness. He is awarded for life full tribunician powers, and extended imperium which gives him authority over any provincial governor and over the army (renewed for five years in 18 and 13, and for ten years in 8, and AD 3 and 13.) In 22, there's famine and plague. Augustus declines the dictatorship and censorship for life, but accepts the post of corn supremo. He leaves for the East for three years. In 21, Agrippa is forced by Augustis to divorce his existing wife and marry Augustus's daughter Julia, whose husband Marcellus died after being married to her for two years. In 18, the Senate is reduced to a mere 600 senators. (You think 100 is bad?) Agrippa is granted special powers. In 17, Augustus adopts Agrippa's and Julia's two sons, Gaius and Lucius, as his own sons. In 15, Tiberius and Drusus,
[meteorite-list] Getting your HED examined
http://www.lamonitor.com/articles/2007/04/14/headline_news/news01.txt GRaND instrument primed for voyage ROGER SNODGRASS Monitor Assistant Editor The Dawn spacecraft, carrying an instrument package from Los Alamos, reached another milestone this week on a journey to the asteroids. NASA announced that Dawn arrived at Astrotech Space Operations in Titusville, Fla., at 9 a.m. Tuesday for final preparations. Countdown is now 76 days until June 30, when Dawn is set to go up like thunder on a heavy-lifting version of a Delta II rocket. It's particularly sweet for us, in that we had quite a few ups and downs getting to the point where we are ready to launch, said Tom Prettyman, the lead scientist for the Los Alamos instrument and a mission co-investigator. The next step is a 15-mile jaunt down the road to the launch pad, followed by a 3.2 billion-mile expedition to the asteroid belt that lies between Mars and Jupiter. The spacecraft will be powered by a pioneering new ion propulsion system that uses electric fields instead of chemical reactions to achieve a thrust. Dawn's job is to visit and circle around two contrasting space objects - first, the asteroid Vesta and second, the dwarf planet Ceres. Vesta is dry and volcanic. Ceres may harbor ice or water. Vesta is melted, evolved and shaped like the top of a skull. Ceres is rough and crude, but round. Vesta, Prettyman said, is an inner-belt body, closer to the sun than Ceres, which is larger and more in the middle of the asteroid belt. The difference between them is one of the main points of the mission and partly why they were chosen as destinations. We want to understand how solar nebulae varied with the distance from the sun and how the planets formed, he said. Both objects are thought to be very old relics, among the first-formed bodies in the solar system 4.5 billion years ago. Because they have probably always been among the biggest chunks of matter in the region, they were the least likely to be perturbed or swept up by the gas-giant Jupiter. The smallest pieces were knocked around, broken into pieces and expelled, until only a fraction of the original main belt asteroid material remains. An old hypothesis held that asteroids were the remains of a destroyed planet named Phaeton, but now the main line of inquiry is why the pieces went through a building and accreting process up to a point but failed to form a planet. After Dawn gets a gravity boost in a fly-by of Mars in March 2009, it will reach Vesta in late 2011 and Ceres in early 2015. In both cases, the spacecraft will survey the situation before beginning a polar orbit and bearing down for closer inspection. The spacecraft will circle both poles, while the body rotates to reveal its entire surface. The LANL instrument, the Gamma Ray and Neutron Detector (GRaND), one of three science instruments Dawn carries in its payload, comes from a long line of space instruments the lab has built for NASA missions. It will map the surface of each asteroid for ratios of rock-forming elements and the telltale hydrogen atoms that indicate ice or water. Another goal is to try to pin down Vesta's tantalizing relationship to a class of meteorites known as HEDs (howardite, eucrite and diogenite) and to try to determine if any meteorites come from Ceres. These are places we've never been before, said Prettyman. They are intriguing because they are representatives of planetary embryos. The mission is managed by the Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena and involves scientific partnerships with the German Aerospace Center, the Max Planck Institute for Solar System Research and the Italian National Institute of Astrophysics. Three groups in the labs International Space and Response Division have been involved in developing and engineering the GRaND and integrating it with the spacecraft. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
