Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale
Hola Greg, So you call them greedy because they call you stingy...seems like we have dealers calling thrifty collectors like you and me Tight Asses and, well, you're doing better by criticizing them for asking for higher prices, but you're pretty much doing the same thing to them, notably without the profanity. I will say that I agree with your strategy, and that the dealers criticizing you have undoubtedly used it in the past as well; I don't know anyone who seriously uses ebay as a buyer and doesn't snipe. But there you go - people will be hypocrites. I'm with you on this one; if anyone criticizes you for doing that, they should take all of their material off of ebay and sell retail only. Or even better - a blind auction where no one knows what the others are bidding or if they are in the lead. That's the only way to get rid of such tactics. But I have the feeling that it would backfire, unless truly spectacular specimens were involved. Regards, Jason On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 10:44 PM, GREG LINDH gee...@msn.com wrote: Hi Jason, Believe me when I tell you, I understand the law of supply and demand. My main point is that there are some hunter/dealers who are definitely more reasonable than others. I have what I consider to be some very nice specimens in my rather small collection. The people who sold them to me did so at reasonable, fair prices. Some I bought as Buy Nows and some I bid for. I always did well on the bid items. I always won and the price was right. I made the mistake of saying on the List that I would always wait until the last second to place my bid. That is what instigated the rather rude dealer to address me as Mr. Tight Ass and I believe he said that people like me should be shot or hung...I can't remember which. Unfortunately, he is typical of many here on the List. This is not a blanket statement. I have wrtten to and dealt with some very amiable and fair people, who not only sent me meteorites, but also much information and encouragement. I only wish that there were more like that here. Best regards, Greg Lindh Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 21:54:57 -0700 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale From: meteorite...@gmail.com To: gee...@msn.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Hola Greg, Interesting point, but kind of moot; while you are correct in stating that Adam is assuming relatively little financial risk in listing items with starting bids of $0.99, if you have problems with the prices they're fetching, the people you should be complaining to are collectors, not him. In this case, he's not the one setting the price. But then I suppose the question would be - if dealers are artificially inflating prices - and then collectors are believing that these rocks are actually worth that much - who's to blame? Do you blame the masses for their ignorance? Or do you blame the people trying to sell them at $1,000/g in the first place? It's a collector's market, Greg, and in this case, supply seems to be pretty much at the level of demand. Lunars are listed for that much - and they sell, so prices clearly aren't too high. I'd like it if they were lower, but things being what they are...well, they are what they are. I personally wouldn't pay $1,000/g for a Lunar, so I don't buy them. The one small slice we did buy (ever) was at $650/g, which is a price I consider to be fair, even considering that the monzogabbro NWA 4734 was initially being sold for $250/g directly from Morocco. I know because I edited the original seller's email to the met-list and forwarded it for him.* To that end, you're asking over four times the original asking price of the material you're selling. I wonder where the money went... Regards, Jason *In retrospect, his asking price was $250/g. The selling price, especially for larger specimens, was undoubtedly less. On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 9:37 PM, GREG LINDH wrote: Adam, Look, I understand that you're a big time hunter/dealer. I'm just a relatively new collector who has had to put my collecting on hold due to the fantastic economy. So, I don't claim to know nearly as much as you as far as values, etc... But, right now, you have a 362 mg Dhofar 910 lunar which started out at $.99 and has already been bid up several times so that the bid now stands at $152.50. The time remaining until the auction ends is 1 day, 18hours. As far as I'm concerned, the most important fact follows. Everyone knows that the real action as far as bidding is concerned takes place in the last 30 seconds of the auction. Right? So, let's say that the bidding keeps rising between now and the end of the countdown. Who knows how high it will have gotten to by the time you have 30 seconds left. I can only assume from past experience that it will be higher than the present $152.50. Then, during that last 30 seconds of the
Re: [meteorite-list] Zacatecas (1792) on ebay
...oh,a discussion about my iron at ebay. Hi Mike and Jason, Zacatecas (1792) is not the same as Zacatecas (1969). All the photos were shown is Zacatecas (1969). That is a strong recrystallized iron and easy to recognize. I think(and not only think) i am sure,that the photo in encyclopedia of meteorites is a mistake. Don, what do you think? My Zacatecas 1792 is real. I have it from a German dealer. And this dealer is certainly the same source, where her other collectors piece for the collection have received. Perhaps even someone a picture for all present here for comparison. Many greetings Mirko Mirko Graul Meteorite Quittenring.4 16321 Bernau GERMANY Phone: 0049-1724105015 E-Mail: m_gr...@yahoo.de WEB: www.meteorite-mirko.de Member of The Meteoritical Society (International Society for Meteoritics and Planetery Science) IMCA-Member: 2113 (International Meteorite Collectors Association) --- Michael Fowler mqfow...@mac.com schrieb am Mo, 18.5.2009: Von: Michael Fowler mqfow...@mac.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Zacatecas (1792) on ebay An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com CC: Michael Fowler mqfow...@mac.com Datum: Montag, 18. Mai 2009, 7:36 Thanks Jason, Don Edwards has a photo in the encyclopedia of meteorites, but it is not very clear. I was trying to decide if it was the re-crystalized 1969 Zacatecas or the 1792 one. I'm inclinded to think it is the 1792 Zacatecas, but there is room for confusion. http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/test/Zacatecas1792_don_edwards.jpg Mike Hello Mike, Indeed, that's not a piece of the more common Zacatecas (1969). See here; that iron is clearly recrystallized: http://www.nyrockman.com/museum/zacatecas-1462.htm While I haven't been able to find a picture of the etch of the Zacatecas (1792) iron, I was able to find this picture of the main mass: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Zacatecas_(1792)_meteorite.jpg There is more than one Zacatecas! Regards, Jason On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 9:52 PM, Michael Fowler mqfowler at mac.com wrote: I collect ungrouped irons, and am looking for a slice of Zacatecas (1792) an ungrouped iron. The specimen on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/Meteorite-ZACATECAS-1792-perfect-etched-slice-12-3g_W0QQitemZ27038922QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ef474f44c_trksid=p3286.c0.m14_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A3%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A5%7C294%3A50#ebayphotohosting does not in my opinion look like the photo in Buchwald, or match his description: Zacatecas is remarkable in that it belongs to the rather few polycrystalline iron meteorites. The grain size ranges from 1 to 5 cm, a variation which is partly due to the random sectioning through many almost equiaxial grains. ... The grain boundaries are also conspicuous because of the copious development of very irregular 1-3 mm wide zones of swathing kamacite. This kamacite was nucleated by the troilite and schreibersite precipitates, and by the boundary itself, and grew significantly before the bulk of the grains transformed during the primary cooling period. .. Zacatecas may have shown a kamacite bandwith ot one time of .6 -1.0 mm, but since all taenite eventually disappeared and significant grain growth in the kamacite took place, no well defined Widmanstatten pattern is present now. In this respect, Zacatecas resembles New Baltimore, Santa Rosa and Chihuahua City. So in short, no well defined Widmanstatten pattern, unlike the photo in the ebay ad. Would anyone like to comment? Thanks, Mike Fowler Chicago ebay--starsandrocks__ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Zacatecas (1792) on ebay
Hello Mirko, Without ever having seen a piece of Zacatecas 1792, I would side with you; the piece of Zacatecas listed on the website does look exactly like the 1969 mass. That said, the picture that I posted of the whole mass: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Zacatecas_(1792)_meteorite.jpg Is NOT of the 1969 mass. That is the 1792 mass. But as I said, I couldn't find a picture of an etched slice of the 1792 mass other than the ones you posted on ebay. Regards, Jason On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 12:03 AM, Mirko Graul m_gr...@yahoo.de wrote: ...oh,a discussion about my iron at ebay. Hi Mike and Jason, Zacatecas (1792) is not the same as Zacatecas (1969). All the photos were shown is Zacatecas (1969). That is a strong recrystallized iron and easy to recognize. I think(and not only think) i am sure,that the photo in encyclopedia of meteorites is a mistake. Don, what do you think? My Zacatecas 1792 is real. I have it from a German dealer. And this dealer is certainly the same source, where her other collectors piece for the collection have received. Perhaps even someone a picture for all present here for comparison. Many greetings Mirko Mirko Graul Meteorite Quittenring.4 16321 Bernau GERMANY Phone: 0049-1724105015 E-Mail: m_gr...@yahoo.de WEB: www.meteorite-mirko.de Member of The Meteoritical Society (International Society for Meteoritics and Planetery Science) IMCA-Member: 2113 (International Meteorite Collectors Association) --- Michael Fowler mqfow...@mac.com schrieb am Mo, 18.5.2009: Von: Michael Fowler mqfow...@mac.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Zacatecas (1792) on ebay An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com CC: Michael Fowler mqfow...@mac.com Datum: Montag, 18. Mai 2009, 7:36 Thanks Jason, Don Edwards has a photo in the encyclopedia of meteorites, but it is not very clear. I was trying to decide if it was the re-crystalized 1969 Zacatecas or the 1792 one. I'm inclinded to think it is the 1792 Zacatecas, but there is room for confusion. http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/test/Zacatecas1792_don_edwards.jpg Mike Hello Mike, Indeed, that's not a piece of the more common Zacatecas (1969). See here; that iron is clearly recrystallized: http://www.nyrockman.com/museum/zacatecas-1462.htm While I haven't been able to find a picture of the etch of the Zacatecas (1792) iron, I was able to find this picture of the main mass: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Zacatecas_(1792)_meteorite.jpg There is more than one Zacatecas! Regards, Jason On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 9:52 PM, Michael Fowler mqfowler at mac.com wrote: I collect ungrouped irons, and am looking for a slice of Zacatecas (1792) an ungrouped iron. The specimen on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/Meteorite-ZACATECAS-1792-perfect-etched-slice-12-3g_W0QQitemZ27038922QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ef474f44c_trksid=p3286.c0.m14_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A3%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A5%7C294%3A50#ebayphotohosting does not in my opinion look like the photo in Buchwald, or match his description: Zacatecas is remarkable in that it belongs to the rather few polycrystalline iron meteorites. The grain size ranges from 1 to 5 cm, a variation which is partly due to the random sectioning through many almost equiaxial grains. ... The grain boundaries are also conspicuous because of the copious development of very irregular 1-3 mm wide zones of swathing kamacite. This kamacite was nucleated by the troilite and schreibersite precipitates, and by the boundary itself, and grew significantly before the bulk of the grains transformed during the primary cooling period. .. Zacatecas may have shown a kamacite bandwith ot one time of .6 -1.0 mm, but since all taenite eventually disappeared and significant grain growth in the kamacite took place, no well defined Widmanstatten pattern is present now. In this respect, Zacatecas resembles New Baltimore, Santa Rosa and Chihuahua City. So in short, no well defined Widmanstatten pattern, unlike the photo in the ebay ad. Would anyone like to comment? Thanks, Mike Fowler Chicago ebay--starsandrocks__ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Tunguska Questions
A couple of points related to the questions posed The Ries impactor is believed to have hurled multi-ton limestone sections up slope onto the Alps, 100km/60miles away. It was far larger than Tunguska and a different scenario all together save for it could have been a dead comet and related to the Carbonaceous meteorites. I believe that Taggish Lake Redeux within a few months found all of this carbonaceous meteorite left originally on the surface had turned entirely to mud. So other than sediments it is perfectly plausible that Tunguska left no macro objects that survived long. Elton __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Zacatecas 1792
Hello Michael, Jason, Mirko and List, Attached to my private mails you'll find a photo of the Zacatecas 1792 iron from the Buchwald trilogy! Reference: BUCHWALD V.F. (1975) Handbook of Iron Meteorites, Volume 2, p. 1364. Regards, Bernd To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: m_gr...@yahoo.de mqfow...@mac.com meteorite...@gmail.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Zacatecas 1792
Well that looks practically nothing like the piece on ebay, even given the fact that the scale is clearly far larger in that image. The brain-like schreibersite in the ebay auction is a fairly uncommon occurrence in irons, and I see no similar inclusions in that large section. Also, the pattern in the ebay piece seems much more regular and is better defined. While the ebay specimen certainly doesn't resemble any common irons on the market (Gibeon, CD, Campo, Tres Castillos, etc.), it does not appear to be a piece of the pictured iron. What say you lot? On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 3:04 AM, bvpa...@t-online.de wrote: Hello Michael, Jason, Mirko and List, Attached to my private mails you'll find a photo of the Zacatecas 1792 iron from the Buchwald trilogy! Reference: BUCHWALD V.F. (1975) Handbook of Iron Meteorites, Volume 2, p. 1364. Regards, Bernd __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Zacatecas in the Encyclopedia
Hello all, The Zacatecas of mine in the Encyclopedia is an error listing - it is the 1969 rather than the 1792 form. This is due to a mis-labelling of what I bought at one time. Don Edwards __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale
Hi Greg and Greg and all, When Adam and others put their lunars on eBay they are taking a risk. Those specimens might sell for considerably more or less than say, $1000/gram. I've seen many Mars and moon meteorites go for $200-500 a gram on eBay over the years. Those selling them probably felt some disappointment at such a low price but they continued to take the risk. I'm very grateful for people like Adam and others who work hard to acquire material, get it classified and then allow collectors a fair shake at buying it at a price we can afford. Congratulations on your lunar Greg. Your price is fair and I wish you well in your sales. Bob On 5/17/09, GREG LINDH gee...@msn.com wrote: Adam, Look, I understand that you're a big time hunter/dealer. I'm just a relatively new collector who has had to put my collecting on hold due to the fantastic economy. So, I don't claim to know nearly as much as you as far as values, etc... But, right now, you have a 362 mg Dhofar 910 lunar which started out at $.99 and has already been bid up several times so that the bid now stands at $152.50. The time remaining until the auction ends is 1 day, 18hours. As far as I'm concerned, the most important fact follows. Everyone knows that the real action as far as bidding is concerned takes place in the last 30 seconds of the auction. Right? So, let's say that the bidding keeps rising between now and the end of the countdown. Who knows how high it will have gotten to by the time you have 30 seconds left. I can only assume from past experience that it will be higher than the present $152.50. Then, during that last 30 seconds of the auction things will really begin to pop. In the end, your Very Last, Rare meteorite will have sold for what? I think a whole bunch more than $.99. Right? So, just saying that you put up lunar meteorites for $.99 is really meaningless. You know that the bidding will drive the price up into the stratosphere. The same thing can be said for your NWA 5000 (a spectacular meteorite, by the way). It started at $.99, but its already up to $331.00. The time remaining until the end of that auction is 1 day, 17 hours. Again, my guess is that it will continue to rise in price over the next day or so, reach the 30 second mark and then once again, its price will explode. So, once again, the $.99 beginning price is meaningless. As I said earlier, I'm just a small time collector. Once, I discussed the way the bidding process works here on the List about 2 years ago, and I had a dealer at that time write to me and give me a rather uncharitable lecture. In his emails to me, he didn't address me as Greg. No, no, he addressed me as Mr. Tight Ass. He said that I should be happy to bid multiple times and very high so that he and other dealers would be able to stay in business. Personally, I found his reasoning to be a bit disingenuous. When he goes into to buy a car, and the dealer says, this car cost $30,000, I wonder if he would say to the dealer, No, no, here let me help you out. I wouldn't want you to go out of business, so I'm going to give you $80,000 for the car. Yeah, right! I've observed a few things in my time perusing this List over the past couple of years. One of the more important things is that there are some dealers who seem to give a more fair deal than others. I'm not going to put you into a category, one way or the other. I'll just say that I have found some dealers who have treated me with respect (a rare treat, indeed), and have also priced their goods in such a way that I was able to buy a few nice pieces. For what it's worth, that's the way I see things here. Regards, Greg Lindh - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com To: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 3:55 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale How is this gouging people, over a $1,000.00 worth of lunar material started at just 99 cents? This material has been running long before this conversation started. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=140320408963 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=200341681245 I have several auctions running, all started at just 99 cents. Let the buyer decide who is or is not gouging as this is a ridiculous statement when it comes to me and has no merit whatsoever. Best Regards, Adam --- On Sun, 5/17/09, GREG LINDH gee...@msn.com wrote: From: GREG LINDH gee...@msn.com Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] AD - Lunar available for sale To: raremeteori...@yahoo.com Cc: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, May 17, 2009, 3:25 PM Adam, Actually, it has *everything* to do with competition. There are those on this List, though they be few in number, who don't gouge their customers when they sell a meteorite. Too many dealers charge outrageous
[meteorite-list] Huge Daylight Fireball Video?
Anyone know what this is and when this video was taken and where the location is? http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/23749/fireball_asteroid_meteorite_ufo_crashes_into_earth/ -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Huge Daylight Fireball Video?
It appears to be lit by the setting Sun. It could be an odd contrail- certainly the speed and motion are about right. But it's got an unusual head for a contrail. Maybe an aircraft or balloon that is venting something, perhaps for some kind of experiment? Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: Meteorites USA e...@meteoritesusa.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:59 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Huge Daylight Fireball Video? Anyone know what this is and when this video was taken and where the location is? http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/23749/fireball_asteroid_meteorite_ufo_crashes_into_earth/ -- Regards, Eric Wichman __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Zacatecas (1969) iron
Hello Mike and Jason, I have a close-up picture of the recrystallized Zacatecas 1969 iron here. http://www.meteorman.org/Zacatecas.htm Tim Heitz Midwest Meteorites - http://www.meteorman.org/ - Original Message - From: Mirko Graul m_gr...@yahoo.de To: Michael Fowler mqfow...@mac.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 2:03 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Zacatecas (1792) on ebay ...oh,a discussion about my iron at ebay. Hi Mike and Jason, Zacatecas (1792) is not the same as Zacatecas (1969). All the photos were shown is Zacatecas (1969). That is a strong recrystallized iron and easy to recognize. I think(and not only think) i am sure,that the photo in encyclopedia of meteorites is a mistake. Don, what do you think? My Zacatecas 1792 is real. I have it from a German dealer. And this dealer is certainly the same source, where her other collectors piece for the collection have received. Perhaps even someone a picture for all present here for comparison. Many greetings Mirko Mirko Graul Meteorite Quittenring.4 16321 Bernau GERMANY Phone: 0049-1724105015 E-Mail: m_gr...@yahoo.de WEB: www.meteorite-mirko.de Member of The Meteoritical Society (International Society for Meteoritics and Planetery Science) IMCA-Member: 2113 (International Meteorite Collectors Association) --- Michael Fowler mqfow...@mac.com schrieb am Mo, 18.5.2009: Von: Michael Fowler mqfow...@mac.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Zacatecas (1792) on ebay An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com CC: Michael Fowler mqfow...@mac.com Datum: Montag, 18. Mai 2009, 7:36 Thanks Jason, Don Edwards has a photo in the encyclopedia of meteorites, but it is not very clear. I was trying to decide if it was the re-crystalized 1969 Zacatecas or the 1792 one. I'm inclinded to think it is the 1792 Zacatecas, but there is room for confusion. http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/test/Zacatecas1792_don_edwards.jpg Mike Hello Mike, Indeed, that's not a piece of the more common Zacatecas (1969). See here; that iron is clearly recrystallized: http://www.nyrockman.com/museum/zacatecas-1462.htm While I haven't been able to find a picture of the etch of the Zacatecas (1792) iron, I was able to find this picture of the main mass: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Zacatecas_(1792)_meteorite.jpg There is more than one Zacatecas! Regards, Jason On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 9:52 PM, Michael Fowler mqfowler at mac.com wrote: I collect ungrouped irons, and am looking for a slice of Zacatecas (1792) an ungrouped iron. The specimen on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/Meteorite-ZACATECAS-1792-perfect-etched-slice-12-3g_W0QQitemZ27038922QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ef474f44c_trksid=p3286.c0.m14_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A3%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A5%7C294%3A50#ebayphotohosting does not in my opinion look like the photo in Buchwald, or match his description: Zacatecas is remarkable in that it belongs to the rather few polycrystalline iron meteorites. The grain size ranges from 1 to 5 cm, a variation which is partly due to the random sectioning through many almost equiaxial grains. ... The grain boundaries are also conspicuous because of the copious development of very irregular 1-3 mm wide zones of swathing kamacite. This kamacite was nucleated by the troilite and schreibersite precipitates, and by the boundary itself, and grew significantly before the bulk of the grains transformed during the primary cooling period. .. Zacatecas may have shown a kamacite bandwith ot one time of .6 -1.0 mm, but since all taenite eventually disappeared and significant grain growth in the kamacite took place, no well defined Widmanstatten pattern is present now. In this respect, Zacatecas resembles New Baltimore, Santa Rosa and Chihuahua City. So in short, no well defined Widmanstatten pattern, unlike the photo in the ebay ad. Would anyone like to comment? Thanks, Mike Fowler Chicago ebay--starsandrocks__ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Huge Daylight Fireball Video?
Yeah, I though it odd Hence the ? mark. I did notice the sun setting (or rising) and thought this could possibly explain the orange glow of the fireball if it is contrails reflecting the orange glow from beyond the horizon. Still though, if it were a contrail from an airplane wouldn't it persist in the air longer than it does? The tail of this fireball seems to stay the same length through out the video and not stretch out across all the way across the sky like a contrail would. Why is that? Don't contrails from planes tend to get larger further from the aircraft as the trail expands and dissipates in the air? This video shows a tapering of the short contrail seemingly getting smaller the further away from the object. What would cause that? Or is it only seeming to taper off because of the haze in the air explaining why the longer contrail is not visible as well? Regards, Eric Chris Peterson wrote: It appears to be lit by the setting Sun. It could be an odd contrail- certainly the speed and motion are about right. But it's got an unusual head for a contrail. Maybe an aircraft or balloon that is venting something, perhaps for some kind of experiment? Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: Meteorites USA e...@meteoritesusa.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:59 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Huge Daylight Fireball Video? Anyone know what this is and when this video was taken and where the location is? http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/23749/fireball_asteroid_meteorite_ufo_crashes_into_earth/ -- Regards, Eric Wichman __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Huge Daylight Fireball Video?
It appears to be lit by the setting Sun. It could be an odd contrail- certainly the speed and motion are about right. But it's got an unusual head for a contrail. Maybe an aircraft or balloon that is venting something, perhaps for some kind of experiment? I'm not able to get the video to show motion...just a single fuzzy photo. For those who can see it move, is it's apparent motion of that of an airplane or satellite or faster? Slower? If it appears quite slow...could be a balloon, but that's a dirty word for those ufo boys. :O) It does have an odd looking head. Wished I knew where it was taken...could be a military flare maybe? I know there was a series of those dropped near phoenix about 12 years ago that spooked the general public. It ended up being the Maryland national guard over a nearby gunnery range. Huh. GeoZay **A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322941x1201367178/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072hmpgID=115bcd =Mayfooter51809NO115) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Huge Daylight Fireball Video?
In fairly still air, contrails persist until they evaporate. How long that takes depends on the humidity and water content of the air. I use contrail patterns during the day as a tool to assess probable astronomical seeing conditions that night. I'm looking for still, dry air. I know that's what we've got when airplanes leave no contrails, or leave contrails that only persist for a very short distance behind the plane- like what the video shows. Here over the central Rockies, such short contrails are very common. Contrails normally form off the trailing surface of the wings, and spread out with distance. In still air, they may spread very little, and appear to taper away again at the far end. But what you usually see then is a small start, some broadening, and then the taper begins. This thing in the video seems too large at the start, which is why I speculated that something was being vented. That said, it's also possible the problem is optical. The camera optics don't seem very good, and the image doesn't seem well focused. So the apparent blob of material at the head might just be an optical aberration of some sort. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: Meteorites USA e...@meteoritesusa.com To: Chris Peterson c...@alumni.caltech.edu; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Huge Daylight Fireball Video? Yeah, I though it odd Hence the ? mark. I did notice the sun setting (or rising) and thought this could possibly explain the orange glow of the fireball if it is contrails reflecting the orange glow from beyond the horizon. Still though, if it were a contrail from an airplane wouldn't it persist in the air longer than it does? The tail of this fireball seems to stay the same length through out the video and not stretch out across all the way across the sky like a contrail would. Why is that? Don't contrails from planes tend to get larger further from the aircraft as the trail expands and dissipates in the air? This video shows a tapering of the short contrail seemingly getting smaller the further away from the object. What would cause that? Or is it only seeming to taper off because of the haze in the air explaining why the longer contrail is not visible as well? Regards, Eric __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Huge Daylight Fireball Video?
Very slow- just like a plane. The thing takes a good 5 minutes to go from its starting point to behind a foreground hill. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: geo...@aol.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:46 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Huge Daylight Fireball Video? It appears to be lit by the setting Sun. It could be an odd contrail- certainly the speed and motion are about right. But it's got an unusual head for a contrail. Maybe an aircraft or balloon that is venting something, perhaps for some kind of experiment? I'm not able to get the video to show motion...just a single fuzzy photo. For those who can see it move, is it's apparent motion of that of an airplane or satellite or faster? Slower? If it appears quite slow...could be a balloon, but that's a dirty word for those ufo boys. :O) It does have an odd looking head. Wished I knew where it was taken...could be a military flare maybe? I know there was a series of those dropped near phoenix about 12 years ago that spooked the general public. It ended up being the Maryland national guard over a nearby gunnery range. Huh. GeoZay __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Huge Daylight Fireball Video?
Still though, if it were a contrail from an airplane wouldn't it persist in the air longer than it does? The tail of this fireball seems to stay the same length through out the video and not stretch out across all the way across the sky like a contrail would. Why is that? Once right after sunset, I saw what appeared to be a very short comet hanging in the sky, low on the horizon. It seemed to be not moving and I thought perhaps it could be a comet. So I got out my 14X100 binoculars and peaked at it. What I could barely make out was a jet airliner just a hair beyond the trail. It appeared to be traveling obliquely away from me. I then could make out slow motion and the contrail never got bigger than about half of a small finger nails width at arms length. There was some foreshortening going on here and probably with the video's object as well. Have someone hold a yard stick perpendicular from you and it will look like a yard in length. then have them hold it with it's end towards you and slightly askew and it will appear very short. at long distances, the motion will become difficult to notice. GeoZay **A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322941x1201367178/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072hmpgID=115bcd =Mayfooter51809NO115) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Zacatecas 1792
Hi Bernd and Jason, many thanks Bernd for your photo. I think that looks absolutly same. Jason,i think the black inclusions on the slice are also schreibersite!! The etching quality are only strong different! Thats all. Many greetings Mirko Mirko Graul Meteorite Quittenring.4 16321 Bernau GERMANY Phone: 0049-1724105015 E-Mail: m_gr...@yahoo.de WEB: www.meteorite-mirko.de Member of The Meteoritical Society (International Society for Meteoritics and Planetery Science) IMCA-Member: 2113 (International Meteorite Collectors Association) --- Jason Utas meteorite...@gmail.com schrieb am Mo, 18.5.2009: Von: Jason Utas meteorite...@gmail.com Betreff: Re: Zacatecas 1792 An: bvpa...@t-online.de, Mirko Graul m_gr...@yahoo.de, Michael Fowler mqfow...@mac.com, Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Datum: Montag, 18. Mai 2009, 12:28 Well that looks practically nothing like the piece on ebay, even given the fact that the scale is clearly far larger in that image. The brain-like schreibersite in the ebay auction is a fairly uncommon occurrence in irons, and I see no similar inclusions in that large section. Also, the pattern in the ebay piece seems much more regular and is better defined. While the ebay specimen certainly doesn't resemble any common irons on the market (Gibeon, CD, Campo, Tres Castillos, etc.), it does not appear to be a piece of the pictured iron. What say you lot? On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 3:04 AM, bvpa...@t-online.de wrote: Hello Michael, Jason, Mirko and List, Attached to my private mails you'll find a photo of the Zacatecas 1792 iron from the Buchwald trilogy! Reference: BUCHWALD V.F. (1975) Handbook of Iron Meteorites, Volume 2, p. 1364. Regards, Bernd __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Huge Daylight Fireball Video?
This thing in the video seems too large at the start, which is why I speculated that something was being vented. Another thing to consider is that if the object is appearing slightly askew and going away from the observer, details at the beginning can blur in with details further on back so you aren't able to focus on anything in particular, but rather a sum of what's happening. Let's say the blob formed a hundred or two feet back, maybe an expanding contrail will blot out the thinner part at the head? geozay **A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322941x1201367178/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072hmpgID=115bcd =Mayfooter51809NO115) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Zacatecas in the Encyclopedia
Dear Don, many thanks for this information. Many greetings Mirko Mirko Graul Meteorite Quittenring.4 16321 Bernau GERMANY Phone: 0049-1724105015 E-Mail: m_gr...@yahoo.de WEB: www.meteorite-mirko.de Member of The Meteoritical Society (International Society for Meteoritics and Planetery Science) IMCA-Member: 2113 (International Meteorite Collectors Association) --- Don Edwards iceda...@swbell.net schrieb am Mo, 18.5.2009: Von: Don Edwards iceda...@swbell.net Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Zacatecas in the Encyclopedia An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Datum: Montag, 18. Mai 2009, 13:33 Hello all, The Zacatecas of mine in the Encyclopedia is an error listing - it is the 1969 rather than the 1792 form. This is due to a mis-labelling of what I bought at one time. Don Edwards __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Huge Daylight Fireball Video?
Very slow- just like a plane. The thing takes a good 5 minutes to go from its starting point to behind a foreground hill. Chris Oh thanks...that helps a lot. I'm now convinced, despite what it looks like, we are looking at the contrails of a distant jet liner traveling away from the observer. Pretty much like what I described earlier when I took out my binoculars for a better looksy. GeoZay **A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322941x1201367178/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072hmpgID=115bcd =Mayfooter51809NO115) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NWA 4734
HI ALL. we need a Little clarification concerning nwa 4734 , an what greg caterton is selling, those slice from greg c, look the real McCoy, and they are from the mass original; that was a complete stone classified by albert jambon, in first i get 409+67 gr and sent 20 gr to albert that he has done the classification and later mr oumama get the rest which is the rest from a complete stone of 1372 gr that he classified the stone by amlbert too; the mass was split by : aziz habibi = 477 gr stfean ralew =40 gr or so oumama the rest wich is 855 gr and there is nothing more as it is a complte stone so mr oumama sold his stone to sbai mohamed and associates, all is sold left in morroco , 409 gr by a, habibi and 400 gr by sbai associates, so mr greg c , get his 11 gr from sbai associates ,as he wrote to me; congratulations on acquiring this wonderful and pristine lunar, than actually he need not to classifies the stone if he has bough it from sbai associates, but need at least to confirm it, what should be done in next situation by any dealer , lunar and martian are a heavy investment , and dealer from nwa or other part of the world take a big risk buying them , any one could clam that a stone is paired to this one , but there have been many stone mistaken for lunars and martians, if a stone is not checked by a scientist as lunar or martian it must not be sold as one, many dealer and collector invest a big money like 1000's of dollar in planetary meteorite and brought to the world of meteorite a pristine collection that had cost them much money to come at the end to sell slices for few dollars , they will never get back there money if there is a bad behavior and no respect of rules, a single collector could never afford to buy a planetary meteorite if there was not big dealers we come to fact that without this dealers from other part of the world that market well planetary meteorite , there will be less and less classification and than there will be a brouhaha of what is what, and collector will not buy anymore any planetary meteorite the work done by Norbert classen and dr randy korotev and dr tony Irving to make statistics of lunar and martian is a wonderfully hard job and we thank them for that, we need a fallow up system by the nomcom for planetary statistics. Moroccans dealers usually sell planetary as unclassified which is an other matter , they send a sample to a dealer who classifies the stone and put it in public, and this is the only way that big dealer could get planetary is by buying unclassified planetary, coming to the pairing issue , i agree that even if lunar and martian are paired they must be confirmed by a scientist, to avoid confusion, thanks for reading and let's keep this market growing , the best we behave good the best we have best market and better meteorite, my 409 gr nwa 4734 still intact it's from the untouchable and it's the main mass now,od nwa4734 as it's the biggest one, from all what is founld 1372 gr. http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/3542986058/sizes/l/ by the way a big firebakll croosed over north erfoud yesterday nigh at 00.30 it looks big and went directly to algeria, thanks aziz habibi habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170/font __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Huge Daylight Fireball Video?
Combination of bad optics, dry air, hazy day, and setting sun equals fireballs that last more than 4 minutes No wonder it looks like a fireball. You can add on to the above that the object was traveling away from you. At night you will have folks seeing stationary lights that suddenly go out when the plane is coming towards you. I use to have my observatory in the mountains near Descanso, CA (near San Diego). The flight path from the east went right over me. Quite often you would see small and large planes turn on their landing lights momentarily just for some reassurances as to where the mountains were...then shut them off. GeoZay **A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322941x1201367178/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072hmpgID=115bcd =Mayfooter51809NO115) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Huge Daylight Fireball Video?
That makes sense... I didn't realize that contrails dissipated so quickly in dryer air. But it makes sense if the air is more humid that the contrail would persist longer. The optical aberration seems logical enough too and could explain the seemingly larger leading edge. Combination of bad optics, dry air, hazy day, and setting sun equals fireballs that last more than 4 minutes No wonder it looks like a fireball. Regards, Eric Chris Peterson wrote: In fairly still air, contrails persist until they evaporate. How long that takes depends on the humidity and water content of the air. I use contrail patterns during the day as a tool to assess probable astronomical seeing conditions that night. I'm looking for still, dry air. I know that's what we've got when airplanes leave no contrails, or leave contrails that only persist for a very short distance behind the plane- like what the video shows. Here over the central Rockies, such short contrails are very common. Contrails normally form off the trailing surface of the wings, and spread out with distance. In still air, they may spread very little, and appear to taper away again at the far end. But what you usually see then is a small start, some broadening, and then the taper begins. This thing in the video seems too large at the start, which is why I speculated that something was being vented. That said, it's also possible the problem is optical. The camera optics don't seem very good, and the image doesn't seem well focused. So the apparent blob of material at the head might just be an optical aberration of some sort. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: Meteorites USA e...@meteoritesusa.com To: Chris Peterson c...@alumni.caltech.edu; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 9:38 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Huge Daylight Fireball Video? Yeah, I though it odd Hence the ? mark. I did notice the sun setting (or rising) and thought this could possibly explain the orange glow of the fireball if it is contrails reflecting the orange glow from beyond the horizon. Still though, if it were a contrail from an airplane wouldn't it persist in the air longer than it does? The tail of this fireball seems to stay the same length through out the video and not stretch out across all the way across the sky like a contrail would. Why is that? Don't contrails from planes tend to get larger further from the aircraft as the trail expands and dissipates in the air? This video shows a tapering of the short contrail seemingly getting smaller the further away from the object. What would cause that? Or is it only seeming to taper off because of the haze in the air explaining why the longer contrail is not visible as well? Regards, Eric __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Regards, Eric Wichman Meteorites USA http://www.meteoritesusa.com 904-236-5394 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Zacatecas 1792
Hi Bernd, There are only 2 people whose posts I read every time, no matter what the subject. You are one and Sterling Webb is the other. Thanks for forwarding the picture from Buchwald. Perhaps you are being diplomatic in letting us form our own opinion as to whether the sample on ebay is similar to the photo in Buchwald? However, what do you think of the written description that I excerpted in my original post?polycrystalline. (with) no well defined widmanstatten pattern. I've looked at a couple of photo's of Santa Rosa, to which Buchwald compares Zacatecas (1792) and there is no comparison to the slice on ebay. Perhaps we can find photos from major institutions to compare to, where there will be no doubt as to the provenance. After all if most collectors bought from the same source and that source is incorrect, then pictures in collector hands will all be similarly in error. Thanks, Mike Fowler __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Huge Daylight Fireball Video?
I agree with Chris: this to me is a short aircraft contrail lit by the sun. I see no reason at all to think of a meteoric fireball. It keeps surprising me that contrails, in this age of ubiquitous aircraft traffic, are still confused with fireballs so often. - Marco - Dr Marco (asteroid 183294) Langbroek Dutch Meteor Society (DMS) e-mail: d...@marcolangbroek.nl http://www.dmsweb.org http://www.marcolangbroek.nl - __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans
Hello List, Everytime we talk about Meteorites and morocco, there's someone to tell that Moroccans are not trustworthy, can anyone tell me how? every american/european was rippied off should tell us who stole his money and every moroccan should do the same, this way we'll have a good idea about who is trustworthy and who is NOT, and it also helps to know untrustworthy people to avoid dealling with'm. A few of you knows lots of very interesting facts about Amercans and Moroccans. dealers, collectors and scientists are all in this matter. So, please, any american or european was ripped off by a moroccan, give us the names and how he stole your money, and hopefully we can hear from moroccans. Thanks Aziz __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA 4734
so mr greg c , get his 11 gr from sbai associates ,as he wrote to me; congratulations on acquiring this wonderful and pristine lunar Thanks for the confirmation for everyone that what I have the the real thing. I understand the need for caution when buying Lunar and Martian meteorites, but I also did not like the fact that people felt the need to question my credibility. I have never given anyone any reason the question me or anything I sell. That said, who wants some of this awesome Lunar? Greg C. --- On Mon, 5/18/09, habibi abdelaziz azizhab...@yahoo.com wrote: From: habibi abdelaziz azizhab...@yahoo.com Subject: [meteorite-list] NWA 4734 To: meteorite list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Monday, May 18, 2009, 12:10 PM HI ALL. we need a Little clarification concerning nwa 4734 , an what greg caterton is selling, those slice from greg c, look the real McCoy, and they are from the mass original; that was a complete stone classified by albert jambon, in first i get 409+67 gr and sent 20 gr to albert that he has done the classification and later mr oumama get the rest which is the rest from a complete stone of 1372 gr that he classified the stone by amlbert too; the mass was split by : aziz habibi = 477 gr stfean ralew =40 gr or so oumama the rest wich is 855 gr and there is nothing more as it is a complte stone so mr oumama sold his stone to sbai mohamed and associates, all is sold left in morroco , 409 gr by a, habibi and 400 gr by sbai associates, so mr greg c , get his 11 gr from sbai associates ,as he wrote to me; congratulations on acquiring this wonderful and pristine lunar, than actually he need not to classifies the stone if he has bough it from sbai associates, but need at least to confirm it, what should be done in next situation by any dealer , lunar and martian are a heavy investment , and dealer from nwa or other part of the world take a big risk buying them , any one could clam that a stone is paired to this one , but there have been many stone mistaken for lunars and martians, if a stone is not checked by a scientist as lunar or martian it must not be sold as one, many dealer and collector invest a big money like 1000's of dollar in planetary meteorite and brought to the world of meteorite a pristine collection that had cost them much money to come at the end to sell slices for few dollars , they will never get back there money if there is a bad behavior and no respect of rules, a single collector could never afford to buy a planetary meteorite if there was not big dealers we come to fact that without this dealers from other part of the world that market well planetary meteorite , there will be less and less classification and than there will be a brouhaha of what is what, and collector will not buy anymore any planetary meteorite the work done by Norbert classen and dr randy korotev and dr tony Irving to make statistics of lunar and martian is a wonderfully hard job and we thank them for that, we need a fallow up system by the nomcom for planetary statistics. Moroccans dealers usually sell planetary as unclassified which is an other matter , they send a sample to a dealer who classifies the stone and put it in public, and this is the only way that big dealer could get planetary is by buying unclassified planetary, coming to the pairing issue , i agree that even if lunar and martian are paired they must be confirmed by a scientist, to avoid confusion, thanks for reading and let's keep this market growing , the best we behave good the best we have best market and better meteorite, my 409 gr nwa 4734 still intact it's from the untouchable and it's the main mass now,od nwa4734 as it's the biggest one, from all what is founld 1372 gr. http://www.flickr.com/photos/azizhabibi/3542986058/sizes/l/ by the way a big firebakll croosed over north erfoud yesterday nigh at 00.30 it looks big and went directly to algeria, thanks aziz habibi habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170/font __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans
Hello List, Everytime we talk about Meteorites and morocco, there's someone to tell that Moroccans are not trustworthy, can anyone tell me how? every american/european was rippied off should tell us who stole his money and every moroccan should do the same, this way we'll have a good idea about who is trustworthy and who is NOT, and it also helps to know untrustworthy people to avoid dealling with'm. A few of you knows lots of very interesting facts about Amercans and Moroccans. dealers, collectors and scientists are all in this matter. So, please, any american or european was ripped off by a moroccan, give us the names and how he stole your money, and hopefully we can hear from moroccans. Good point! geozay **A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221322941x1201367178/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072hmpgID=115bcd =Mayfooter51809NO115) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans
Aloha Aziz and listees, Rather than bring up the negative, I would like to reinforce the positive. In past transactions, I have had good, trustworthy transactions with Aid Mohamed and Ahmad Bouregaa. gary On May 18, 2009, at 7:34 AM, Abdelaziz Alhyane wrote: Hello List, Everytime we talk about Meteorites and morocco, there's someone to tell that Moroccans are not trustworthy, can anyone tell me how? every american/european was rippied off should tell us who stole his money and every moroccan should do the same, this way we'll have a good idea about who is trustworthy and who is NOT, and it also helps to know untrustworthy people to avoid dealling with'm. A few of you knows lots of very interesting facts about Amercans and Moroccans. dealers, collectors and scientists are all in this matter. So, please, any american or european was ripped off by a moroccan, give us the names and how he stole your money, and hopefully we can hear from moroccans. Thanks Aziz __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Gary Fujihara AstroDay Institute 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, HI 96720 (808) 640-9161, fuj...@mac.com http://astroday.net __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Huge Daylight Fireball Video?
It keeps surprising me that contrails, in this age of ubiquitous aircraft traffic, are still confused with fireballs so often. Most people never look up. An appalling percentage of adults are unaware, for instance, that the Moon can be seen during the day (something like half of adults in the U.S.) Now you put a jet near the horizon at sunset, so you get something too bright to miss, and of course too far away to make any sound, and I guess it's not surprising you get some people who believe they are seeing something extraordinary. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: Marco Langbroek marco.langbr...@wanadoo.nl To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 10:43 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Huge Daylight Fireball Video? I agree with Chris: this to me is a short aircraft contrail lit by the sun. I see no reason at all to think of a meteoric fireball. It keeps surprising me that contrails, in this age of ubiquitous aircraft traffic, are still confused with fireballs so often. - Marco __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans
hi all this what the IMCA is for , the imca members protect themselves by being members, if somone is stolen or ripped off he goes to i.m.c.a. and he put a reclamation, than the imca make a black list of the no honnest dealers, so i encourage everybody to be member of IMCA... i also ask morrocan dealer to be members from the imca and to fallow the rules , this will give good notorite to morrocans delears and also will protect them to be ripped off by anyone else, and give agood image of the morrocans delears. meantime i ask the imca to make it easy for the morrocans to be members, and later ask them to fallow the rules, thanks habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170/font __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans
hi all this what the IMCA is for , the imca members protect themselves by being members, if somone is stolen or ripped off he goes to i.m.c.a. and he put a reclamation, than the imca make a black list of the no honnest dealers, so i encourage everybody to be member of IMCA... ROTFLMAO! That's rich. Thanks for the smile today. ;) On 5/18/09, habibi abdelaziz azizhab...@yahoo.com wrote: hi all this what the IMCA is for , the imca members protect themselves by being members, if somone is stolen or ripped off he goes to i.m.c.a. and he put a reclamation, than the imca make a black list of the no honnest dealers, so i encourage everybody to be member of IMCA... i also ask morrocan dealer to be members from the imca and to fallow the rules , this will give good notorite to morrocans delears and also will protect them to be ripped off by anyone else, and give agood image of the morrocans delears. meantime i ask the imca to make it easy for the morrocans to be members, and later ask them to fallow the rules, thanks habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170/font __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- . Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans
ROTFLMAO Ditto. Translation; Roliing of the floor laughing my @ss off. Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: hi all this what the IMCA is for , the imca members protect themselves by being members, if somone is stolen or ripped off he goes to i.m.c.a. and he put a reclamation, than the imca make a black list of the no honnest dealers, so i encourage everybody to be member of IMCA... ROTFLMAO! That's rich. Thanks for the smile today. ;) On 5/18/09, habibi abdelaziz azizhab...@yahoo.com wrote: hi all this what the IMCA is for , the imca members protect themselves by being members, if somone is stolen or ripped off he goes to i.m.c.a. and he put a reclamation, than the imca make a black list of the no honnest dealers, so i encourage everybody to be member of IMCA... i also ask morrocan dealer to be members from the imca and to fallow the rules , this will give good notorite to morrocans delears and also will protect them to be ripped off by anyone else, and give agood image of the morrocans delears. meantime i ask the imca to make it easy for the morrocans to be members, and later ask them to fallow the rules, thanks habibi aziz box 70 erfoud 52200 morroco phone. 21235576145 fax.21235576170/font __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- . Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA) Member of the Meteoritical Society. Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network. Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com .. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans
Mike, please... I just opened the ebay-site, searched for meteori*, got 1681 results. Please show me those auctions from IMCA-members, where fakes, not authentic or at least doubtful material (regarding the authenticity) are offered. And then list me those auctions from non-IMCA-members, where fakes, non authentic and doubtful material is offered. IMCA was founded to make meteorite trades safer for all. The result of your comparision will be, I dare to foresee, quite convincing, that that IMCA-thing already could be called quite a success. I guess, if you'll search for Sideroli and nandan, meteori* +sphere and tibet +meteori* ect. you will directly obtain your first 20-50 fakes, ..to make it a little bit easier. Hmm those meteoritic carbonados currently en vogue, I just can found only 2 offered. Together 50 k$. a nice sum to go shopping for real meteorites. To lazy (US-ebay is working so slowly on my computer since weeks?) to check how many tektites currently are offered there to the layman to have originated from the Moon... That's what IMCA mainly is about. And I'm so old, that I know the times before IMCA and how the situation was there, where everyone could sell any stone from his garden as meteorite, with the rookie, the laypeople, the unexperienced having zero possibility to know something about authenticity and having zero guidelines. Now his chances to be ripped off are definitely lower, when he looks for the IMCA-labels. (And I have by far less people to console in my practise, who bought crap as meteorites, than the years before). I for myself am astonished, how few complaints about alleged misdemeanour or fraud of IMCA-members reach IMCA. Remember IMCA is statuably obligated to proof each and every case reported. And in turn, if nobody complains, IMCA can't know the case. Remember that instrument is available for ALL, for non-members too, as long as the wrongdoing party is a member. Do you know any similar service in the meteoritic field? Hmm perhaps another, more empiric thought: Why do so many dealers, collector-dealers, collectors and those, who frequently or sporadically trade, sell, swap meteorites join IMCA, if that club is only a joke? Nobody urges them to do that, it's there free will and it even costs them 20 bucks and makes their transactions more difficult, if they obey the code of ethics. So why? If we let aside all that pathetic stuff about enthusiasm, education, safety for the consumer (shhht no outcry now please, I know that many of you joined also because of these intentions, but I try to explain something) and reduce that affair to the most disdainful or trivial reason: the commercial thing, the money, which I almost fear, at least if I read the recent postings of some of the list, seems to be the most understandable and maybe important factor in their collectors life. Why the heck then most are eager to join IMCA, if they don't see any advantage for them in it? Obviously something with that IMCA and the labels seems to work. And that can't be directly influenced by the IMCA-members and directors (else than their sedulous conduct and work) cause their must have happened something with the ominous consumer - ugly word, that it turned out to be an advantage for most offerers (or at least in their opininion) to use the IMCA-label. If it would be meaningless, why would the offerers use it then? Of course there are very honourable offerers and dealers too, who do without - not so seldom their reputation and integrity seems to be work alone as well. (Have to say that, only to avoid the always identic discussions). But if one counts, I guess, meanwhile the majority of meteorite offerers ate members of IMCA. It is easy to scoff about something, harder it is to improve a grievance. IMCA was born by the idea of few, who were very discontented about the situation regarding the safety on the meteorite market (especially with the still quite new ebay then) - maybe so discontent like you and others are about IMCA - and felt, that something had to be done. They had the ideas and realized them with their own efforts and if I see the results after those few years only - and I wasn't a member from beginning on - then I have to pay my highest deference to the founders. An opinion only, my opinion Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Galactic Stone Ironworks Gesendet: Montag, 18. Mai 2009 20:58 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans hi all this what the IMCA is for , the imca members protect themselves by being members, if somone is stolen or ripped off he goes to i.m.c.a. and he put a reclamation, than the imca make a black list of the no honnest dealers, so i encourage everybody to be member of IMCA... ROTFLMAO! That's rich. Thanks for the smile today. ;) On 5/18/09,
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans
Martin As usual, I agree with everything you said. What I saw here in this thread if you read between the lines are pricing issues and for that IMCA has no control. Adam is complaining once again about somebody else selling paired material and somehow price became an issue. That's all I was referring to. If Greg wants to sell Lunar for less than Adam, what has IMCA to do with this? Carl IMCA 5829 Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: Mike, please... I just opened the ebay-site, searched for meteori*, got 1681 results. Please show me those auctions from IMCA-members, where fakes, not authentic or at least doubtful material (regarding the authenticity) are offered. And then list me those auctions from non-IMCA-members, where fakes, non authentic and doubtful material is offered. IMCA was founded to make meteorite trades safer for all. The result of your comparision will be, I dare to foresee, quite convincing, that that IMCA-thing already could be called quite a success. I guess, if you'll search for Sideroli and nandan, meteori* +sphere and tibet +meteori* ect. you will directly obtain your first 20-50 fakes, ..to make it a little bit easier. Hmm those meteoritic carbonados currently en vogue, I just can found only 2 offered. Together 50 k$. a nice sum to go shopping for real meteorites. To lazy (US-ebay is working so slowly on my computer since weeks?) to check how many tektites currently are offered there to the layman to have originated from the Moon... That's what IMCA mainly is about. And I'm so old, that I know the times before IMCA and how the situation was there, where everyone could sell any stone from his garden as meteorite, with the rookie, the laypeople, the unexperienced having zero possibility to know something about authenticity and having zero guidelines. Now his chances to be ripped off are definitely lower, when he looks for the IMCA-labels. (And I have by far less people to console in my practise, who bought crap as meteorites, than the years before). I for myself am astonished, how few complaints about alleged misdemeanour or fraud of IMCA-members reach IMCA. Remember IMCA is statuably obligated to proof each and every case reported. And in turn, if nobody complains, IMCA can't know the case. Remember that instrument is available for ALL, for non-members too, as long as the wrongdoing party is a member. Do you know any similar service in the meteoritic field? Hmm perhaps another, more empiric thought: Why do so many dealers, collector-dealers, collectors and those, who frequently or sporadically trade, sell, swap meteorites join IMCA, if that club is only a joke? Nobody urges them to do that, it's there free will and it even costs them 20 bucks and makes their transactions more difficult, if they obey the code of ethics. So why? If we let aside all that pathetic stuff about enthusiasm, education, safety for the consumer (shhht no outcry now please, I know that many of you joined also because of these intentions, but I try to explain something) and reduce that affair to the most disdainful or trivial reason: the commercial thing, the money, which I almost fear, at least if I read the recent postings of some of the list, seems to be the most understandable and maybe important factor in their collectors life. Why the heck then most are eager to join IMCA, if they don't see any advantage for them in it? Obviously something with that IMCA and the labels seems to work. And that can't be directly influenced by the IMCA-members and directors (else than their sedulous conduct and work) cause their must have happened something with the ominous consumer - ugly word, that it turned out to be an advantage for most offerers (or at least in their opininion) to use the IMCA-label. If it would be meaningless, why would the offerers use it then? Of course there are very honourable offerers and dealers too, who do without - not so seldom their reputation and integrity seems to be work alone as well. (Have to say that, only to avoid the always identic discussions). But if one counts, I guess, meanwhile the majority of meteorite offerers ate members of IMCA. It is easy to scoff about something, harder it is to improve a grievance. IMCA was born by the idea of few, who were very discontented about the situation regarding the safety on the meteorite market (especially with the still quite new ebay then) - maybe so discontent like you and others are about IMCA - and felt, that something had to be done. They had the ideas and realized them with their own efforts and if I see the results after those few years only - and I wasn't a member from beginning on - then I have to pay my highest deference to the founders. An opinion only, my opinion Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans
Martin and List, Well, I just received a veiled death threat from an IMCA member for my last post. I can say in all honesty, that I have done hundreds (if not over a thousand) deals since joining the world of meteorites. Only once did someone attempt to scam me, and it was an IMCA member. IMCA credentials mean zero to me. Martin, you are one of the good guys and you know I respect you. But there are bad apples in the IMCA just like any other large group. Now I am debating whether I am going to contact the authorities over this death threat I just received. I guess I better shut my mouth before the IMCA sends a thug to my house. Best regards, MikeG On 5/18/09, Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: Mike, please... I just opened the ebay-site, searched for meteori*, got 1681 results. Please show me those auctions from IMCA-members, where fakes, not authentic or at least doubtful material (regarding the authenticity) are offered. And then list me those auctions from non-IMCA-members, where fakes, non authentic and doubtful material is offered. IMCA was founded to make meteorite trades safer for all. The result of your comparision will be, I dare to foresee, quite convincing, that that IMCA-thing already could be called quite a success. I guess, if you'll search for Sideroli and nandan, meteori* +sphere and tibet +meteori* ect. you will directly obtain your first 20-50 fakes, ..to make it a little bit easier. Hmm those meteoritic carbonados currently en vogue, I just can found only 2 offered. Together 50 k$. a nice sum to go shopping for real meteorites. To lazy (US-ebay is working so slowly on my computer since weeks?) to check how many tektites currently are offered there to the layman to have originated from the Moon... That's what IMCA mainly is about. And I'm so old, that I know the times before IMCA and how the situation was there, where everyone could sell any stone from his garden as meteorite, with the rookie, the laypeople, the unexperienced having zero possibility to know something about authenticity and having zero guidelines. Now his chances to be ripped off are definitely lower, when he looks for the IMCA-labels. (And I have by far less people to console in my practise, who bought crap as meteorites, than the years before). I for myself am astonished, how few complaints about alleged misdemeanour or fraud of IMCA-members reach IMCA. Remember IMCA is statuably obligated to proof each and every case reported. And in turn, if nobody complains, IMCA can't know the case. Remember that instrument is available for ALL, for non-members too, as long as the wrongdoing party is a member. Do you know any similar service in the meteoritic field? Hmm perhaps another, more empiric thought: Why do so many dealers, collector-dealers, collectors and those, who frequently or sporadically trade, sell, swap meteorites join IMCA, if that club is only a joke? Nobody urges them to do that, it's there free will and it even costs them 20 bucks and makes their transactions more difficult, if they obey the code of ethics. So why? If we let aside all that pathetic stuff about enthusiasm, education, safety for the consumer (shhht no outcry now please, I know that many of you joined also because of these intentions, but I try to explain something) and reduce that affair to the most disdainful or trivial reason: the commercial thing, the money, which I almost fear, at least if I read the recent postings of some of the list, seems to be the most understandable and maybe important factor in their collectors life. Why the heck then most are eager to join IMCA, if they don't see any advantage for them in it? Obviously something with that IMCA and the labels seems to work. And that can't be directly influenced by the IMCA-members and directors (else than their sedulous conduct and work) cause their must have happened something with the ominous consumer - ugly word, that it turned out to be an advantage for most offerers (or at least in their opininion) to use the IMCA-label. If it would be meaningless, why would the offerers use it then? Of course there are very honourable offerers and dealers too, who do without - not so seldom their reputation and integrity seems to be work alone as well. (Have to say that, only to avoid the always identic discussions). But if one counts, I guess, meanwhile the majority of meteorite offerers ate members of IMCA. It is easy to scoff about something, harder it is to improve a grievance. IMCA was born by the idea of few, who were very discontented about the situation regarding the safety on the meteorite market (especially with the still quite new ebay then) - maybe so discontent like you and others are about IMCA - and felt, that something had to be done. They had the ideas and realized them with their own efforts and if I see the results after those few years only - and I
[meteorite-list] $50,787.50
What is-- the selling price of the Garza stone, Alex. http://www.suntimes.com/lifestyles/1578763,CST-NWS-meteorite18.article Collector pays $50,000 for a 5-pound rock PARK FOREST | Why so high? It's a meteorite that hit a house in '03 Comments May 18, 2009 BY MARY HOULIHAN mhouli...@suntimes.com The Garza stone has a new home. The five-pound meteorite that crashed into a Park Forest home in 2003 was bought by a private collector for $50,787.50 Sunday during an auction by Dallas-based Heritage Auctions. David Herskowitz, director of natural history at Heritage, says it's the Garza's provenance that makes it exceptional. The added value of this meteorite is that it hit a man-made object, Herskowitz said. And that's extraordinary. They usually land in the desert, the ocean or the polar ice cap and are never found. The stone was auctioned by collector Adam Hupe of Laughlin, Nev., who bought it for an estimated $45,000 from Noe Garza, the Park Forest steelworker whose house it hit. Garza sold the stone when his insurance refused to pay (it was called an act of God) for the damage to the house. On March 26, 2003, a massive meteorite, estimated to be the size of a VW Beetle and weighing up to eight tons, exploded in a fireball over the Midwest. The fragments that fell to Earth were mostly tiny. The 4.6 billion-year-old rock that crashed through the Garza roof landed in 14-year-old Robert Garza's bedroom. It was a close encounter from outer space. It ricocheted around the room and finally came to rest in the middle of the bedroom floor, Herskowitz said. It got a lot of public attention, and that makes it even more popular with collectors. Also on Sunday, Heritage auctioned a very rare saber-toothed tiger skull pulled from a tar pit in Los Angeles. It went for more than $300,000. Herskowitz says wealthy collectors aren't the only ones who find meteorites, fossils and dinosaurs fascinating. Most people find this sort of thing really cool, he said. We can't get enough of them. That's the reason natural history museums remain so popular. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans
Carl, This has nothing to do with pricing. Carl, where do you come up with this crap? You do not know me at all otherwise you would not make such stupid comments. I did not complain once about price. I think $1,000.00/gram for a Mare is reasonable if the burden of proof has been satisfied that it is indeed a lunar. I do not own any of this material so I have no personal interest other than having the owner report weights in order to keep the lunar tally as accurate as possible. Greg is reporting the weight and submitting a sample for study so I have no complaint at all. I am pleased that these 11 grams will be incorporated into the tally. He can easily beat my price because I have none to offer. Enough from me on this conversation. Best Regards, Adam --- On Mon, 5/18/09, cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net wrote: From: cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de Date: Monday, May 18, 2009, 2:22 PM Martin As usual, I agree with everything you said. What I saw here in this thread if you read between the lines are pricing issues and for that IMCA has no control. Adam is complaining once again about somebody else selling paired material and somehow price became an issue. That's all I was referring to. If Greg wants to sell Lunar for less than Adam, what has IMCA to do with this? Carl IMCA 5829 Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: Mike, please... I just opened the ebay-site, searched for meteori*, got 1681 results. Please show me those auctions from IMCA-members, where fakes, not authentic or at least doubtful material (regarding the authenticity) are offered. And then list me those auctions from non-IMCA-members, where fakes, non authentic and doubtful material is offered. IMCA was founded to make meteorite trades safer for all. The result of your comparision will be, I dare to foresee, quite convincing, that that IMCA-thing already could be called quite a success. I guess, if you'll search for Sideroli and nandan, meteori* +sphere and tibet +meteori* ect. you will directly obtain your first 20-50 fakes, ..to make it a little bit easier. Hmm those meteoritic carbonados currently en vogue, I just can found only 2 offered. Together 50 k$. a nice sum to go shopping for real meteorites. To lazy (US-ebay is working so slowly on my computer since weeks?) to check how many tektites currently are offered there to the layman to have originated from the Moon... That's what IMCA mainly is about. And I'm so old, that I know the times before IMCA and how the situation was there, where everyone could sell any stone from his garden as meteorite, with the rookie, the laypeople, the unexperienced having zero possibility to know something about authenticity and having zero guidelines. Now his chances to be ripped off are definitely lower, when he looks for the IMCA-labels. (And I have by far less people to console in my practise, who bought crap as meteorites, than the years before). I for myself am astonished, how few complaints about alleged misdemeanour or fraud of IMCA-members reach IMCA. Remember IMCA is statuably obligated to proof each and every case reported. And in turn, if nobody complains, IMCA can't know the case. Remember that instrument is available for ALL, for non-members too, as long as the wrongdoing party is a member. Do you know any similar service in the meteoritic field? Hmm perhaps another, more empiric thought: Why do so many dealers, collector-dealers, collectors and those, who frequently or sporadically trade, sell, swap meteorites join IMCA, if that club is only a joke? Nobody urges them to do that, it's there free will and it even costs them 20 bucks and makes their transactions more difficult, if they obey the code of ethics. So why? If we let aside all that pathetic stuff about enthusiasm, education, safety for the consumer (shhht no outcry now please, I know that many of you joined also because of these intentions, but I try to explain something) and reduce that affair to the most disdainful or trivial reason: the commercial thing, the money, which I almost fear, at least if I read the recent postings of some of the list, seems to be the most understandable and maybe important factor in their collectors life. Why the heck then most are eager to join IMCA, if they don't see any advantage for them in it? Obviously something with that IMCA and the labels seems to work. And that can't be directly influenced by the IMCA-members and directors (else than their sedulous conduct and work) cause their must have happened something with the ominous consumer - ugly word, that it turned out to be an advantage
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans
Hi Carl, IMCA has indeed no influence on pricing. And I think, that wouldn't be desirable at all, would it? As most adhere to the ideal of the interplay of forces, while monopolism rarely has advantages for its victims... Hmm sometimes I have the feeling, that a few (still) misunderstand the role of IMCA. IMCA isn't the Vatican of meteoritics, which publishes a catechism and pitilessly prosecutes any breach of anyone on Earth, who is able to form the word meteorite with his lips, Neither to stay at religious metaphors is it the Guardian Council nor invented IMCA a meteoritic sharia. It is certainly somewhat flattering if someones think that IMCA is so mighty, but IMCA is somewhat else. An association of like-mined people, who first and foremost have a common aim: Authenticity, authenticity and authenticity. All members, who join, obligate themselves, that the stones and irons they sell, swap, trade, publish ect. are exactly that, what they claim, that they are. (and that they adhere to a proper business conduct - which for most of them was anyway before already a matter of course.) It is not the job of the IMCA to dictate to a fancy restaurant in Oslo, that the burger there on the menu might be somewhat expensive with 20$, cause the same burger costs at a takeaway in Alabama 99 cents. Important is, that the ingredients are proper. Neither is IMCA responsible for people selling or consuming their burgers topped with strawberry jelly - as long as the beef is the beef - cause that is a question of individual taste. That is the most important objective, IMCA has imposed on itself. Hmm, I read Adam's post different. Cause Greg showed that material first, without naming it, he asked what it is and whether the provenience is alright, because that is an important issue, crucial also for the collector. Greg supplied the provenience, which was confirmed from another side. Case closed, Ted hasn't to analyze or to give a new number, as it is a part of an already known and classified stone. All dealt correct. No misinformation. (no violation of IMCA-rules. Note, that Greg hadn't made any incorrect statements, like e.g. I sell that Moon cheaper than anyone before, that one could rant, if one would be very finicky, cause that material was offered in public to the list 2 years or so ago at 500$ a gram). On price debates I won't say a word. Only that some forget, that dealers, who regularly bring out new material on a fast pace, certainly have different cost-structures and risks, than sellers, who here and there sell minor amounts of known material for fun or to refinance their collection. Professional dealers btw. are sometimes more expensive, sometimes cheaper, sometimes they ask the same... I can't follow intellectually that debate. Who would have the idea, to go to his butcher or baker to insult him, that his food is more expensive than at the big discounter? Who, who has some scissors at home, would dare to go to the barber around the corner to publically insult him? For me that is really weird. And about morality... what shall we discuss about that, with people, who pride themselves, that they bought their preferred dealer their beloved UNWAs at 25$/kg. Deduct from that sum the transportation costs from Morocco, the sales income taxes, the running business costs the dealer has to pay, and then think, what he can pay to his Moroccan suppliers for a price for that stuff - often middlemen by theirselves - and how much of the price finally will reach those, who drudge to make it possible, that we get the stuff at such prices at all in our collections - stuff whereof a kilogram is as rare as a kilogram of brilliants (still talking from UNWA) - in fact in Sahara even rarer than that, if you look at the statistics closer, as counting in for 90% of the mass of all known meteorites are the 20 largest iron finds. So better we should avoid the word morality. And if you take a look on meteorite pricing of the 200 years before, then it is quite strange to impute greed to any involved in meteorites. If a Nininger would have been paid - and he had to fight a lot in his life - at the actual rates, meteorites are going for, he hadn't lifted a finger and America would be now several chapters worse off I his glorious meteorite history. As always, only a personal opinion... Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: cdtuc...@cox.net [mailto:cdtuc...@cox.net] Gesendet: Montag, 18. Mai 2009 23:23 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Martin Altmann Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans Martin As usual, I agree with everything you said. What I saw here in this thread if you read between the lines are pricing issues and for that IMCA has no control. Adam is complaining once again about somebody else selling paired material and somehow price became an issue. That's all I was referring to. If Greg wants to sell Lunar for less than Adam, what has IMCA to do with this? Carl
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans
Hi Mike, Are you still a member of the IMCA? -Walter Branch - Original Message - From: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com To: Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:43 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans Martin and List, Well, I just received a veiled death threat from an IMCA member for my last post. I can say in all honesty, that I have done hundreds (if not over a thousand) deals since joining the world of meteorites. Only once did someone attempt to scam me, and it was an IMCA member. IMCA credentials mean zero to me. Martin, you are one of the good guys and you know I respect you. But there are bad apples in the IMCA just like any other large group. Now I am debating whether I am going to contact the authorities over this death threat I just received. I guess I better shut my mouth before the IMCA sends a thug to my house. Best regards, MikeG On 5/18/09, Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: Mike, please... I just opened the ebay-site, searched for meteori*, got 1681 results. Please show me those auctions from IMCA-members, where fakes, not authentic or at least doubtful material (regarding the authenticity) are offered. And then list me those auctions from non-IMCA-members, where fakes, non authentic and doubtful material is offered. IMCA was founded to make meteorite trades safer for all. The result of your comparision will be, I dare to foresee, quite convincing, that that IMCA-thing already could be called quite a success. I guess, if you'll search for Sideroli and nandan, meteori* +sphere and tibet +meteori* ect. you will directly obtain your first 20-50 fakes, ..to make it a little bit easier. Hmm those meteoritic carbonados currently en vogue, I just can found only 2 offered. Together 50 k$. a nice sum to go shopping for real meteorites. To lazy (US-ebay is working so slowly on my computer since weeks?) to check how many tektites currently are offered there to the layman to have originated from the Moon... That's what IMCA mainly is about. And I'm so old, that I know the times before IMCA and how the situation was there, where everyone could sell any stone from his garden as meteorite, with the rookie, the laypeople, the unexperienced having zero possibility to know something about authenticity and having zero guidelines. Now his chances to be ripped off are definitely lower, when he looks for the IMCA-labels. (And I have by far less people to console in my practise, who bought crap as meteorites, than the years before). I for myself am astonished, how few complaints about alleged misdemeanour or fraud of IMCA-members reach IMCA. Remember IMCA is statuably obligated to proof each and every case reported. And in turn, if nobody complains, IMCA can't know the case. Remember that instrument is available for ALL, for non-members too, as long as the wrongdoing party is a member. Do you know any similar service in the meteoritic field? Hmm perhaps another, more empiric thought: Why do so many dealers, collector-dealers, collectors and those, who frequently or sporadically trade, sell, swap meteorites join IMCA, if that club is only a joke? Nobody urges them to do that, it's there free will and it even costs them 20 bucks and makes their transactions more difficult, if they obey the code of ethics. So why? If we let aside all that pathetic stuff about enthusiasm, education, safety for the consumer (shhht no outcry now please, I know that many of you joined also because of these intentions, but I try to explain something) and reduce that affair to the most disdainful or trivial reason: the commercial thing, the money, which I almost fear, at least if I read the recent postings of some of the list, seems to be the most understandable and maybe important factor in their collectors life. Why the heck then most are eager to join IMCA, if they don't see any advantage for them in it? Obviously something with that IMCA and the labels seems to work. And that can't be directly influenced by the IMCA-members and directors (else than their sedulous conduct and work) cause their must have happened something with the ominous consumer - ugly word, that it turned out to be an advantage for most offerers (or at least in their opininion) to use the IMCA-label. If it would be meaningless, why would the offerers use it then? Of course there are very honourable offerers and dealers too, who do without - not so seldom their reputation and integrity seems to be work alone as well. (Have to say that, only to avoid the always identic discussions). But if one counts, I guess, meanwhile the majority of meteorite offerers ate members of IMCA. It is easy to scoff about something, harder it is to improve a grievance. IMCA was born by the idea of few, who were very discontented about the situation regarding the
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans
I would really like for this issue to stop. I had no idea that so much drama would come from me offering samples of this Lunar. All my intentions were was to offer some of this really nice Lunar for a more reasonable price then I have seen it going for. What I have has been confirmed to be NWA 4734, provenance supplied and no testing is needed at this point as it would be redundant and only cost me material and money out of my pocket for nothing more then to back up my statements that have already been confirmed. I think we can consider this issue done. That said, for today only, I will offer this for $900 per gram for anything over 1 gram. Under 1 gram my regular price of $1,000/g still applies. If this is for educational.research use, let me know and we might be able to work something better out. Cant beat an awesome Lunar such as this for that price... If interested, email me for pictures of available material. Hope everyone is having a good day! Greg C. --- On Mon, 5/18/09, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans To: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Monday, May 18, 2009, 6:23 PM Carl, This has nothing to do with pricing. Carl, where do you come up with this crap? You do not know me at all otherwise you would not make such stupid comments. I did not complain once about price. I think $1,000.00/gram for a Mare is reasonable if the burden of proof has been satisfied that it is indeed a lunar. I do not own any of this material so I have no personal interest other than having the owner report weights in order to keep the lunar tally as accurate as possible. Greg is reporting the weight and submitting a sample for study so I have no complaint at all. I am pleased that these 11 grams will be incorporated into the tally. He can easily beat my price because I have none to offer. Enough from me on this conversation. Best Regards, Adam --- On Mon, 5/18/09, cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net wrote: From: cdtuc...@cox.net cdtuc...@cox.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de Date: Monday, May 18, 2009, 2:22 PM Martin As usual, I agree with everything you said. What I saw here in this thread if you read between the lines are pricing issues and for that IMCA has no control. Adam is complaining once again about somebody else selling paired material and somehow price became an issue. That's all I was referring to. If Greg wants to sell Lunar for less than Adam, what has IMCA to do with this? Carl IMCA 5829 Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: Mike, please... I just opened the ebay-site, searched for meteori*, got 1681 results. Please show me those auctions from IMCA-members, where fakes, not authentic or at least doubtful material (regarding the authenticity) are offered. And then list me those auctions from non-IMCA-members, where fakes, non authentic and doubtful material is offered. IMCA was founded to make meteorite trades safer for all. The result of your comparision will be, I dare to foresee, quite convincing, that that IMCA-thing already could be called quite a success. I guess, if you'll search for Sideroli and nandan, meteori* +sphere and tibet +meteori* ect. you will directly obtain your first 20-50 fakes, ..to make it a little bit easier. Hmm those meteoritic carbonados currently en vogue, I just can found only 2 offered. Together 50 k$. a nice sum to go shopping for real meteorites. To lazy (US-ebay is working so slowly on my computer since weeks?) to check how many tektites currently are offered there to the layman to have originated from the Moon... That's what IMCA mainly is about. And I'm so old, that I know the times before IMCA and how the situation was there, where everyone could sell any stone from his garden as meteorite, with the rookie, the laypeople, the unexperienced having zero possibility to know something about authenticity and having zero guidelines. Now his chances to be ripped off are definitely lower, when he looks for the IMCA-labels. (And I have by far less people to console in my practise, who bought crap as meteorites, than the years before). I for myself am astonished, how few complaints about alleged misdemeanour or fraud of IMCA-members reach IMCA. Remember IMCA is statuably obligated to proof each and every case reported. And in turn, if nobody complains, IMCA can't know the case. Remember that instrument is available for ALL, for non-members too, as long as the wrongdoing party is a member. Do you know any
Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans
Everyone has his opinion, be sure that IMCA isn't obsessed to proselytize all unbelievers, as it isn't the holy or unholy inquisition. As explained it isn't neither a secret guild or sect, which controls the said and unsaid thoughts of their members. I'm only somewhat discontent, that IMCA is often faced with recriminations, but where no bare facts are offered by those, who shoot their mouths (says the dictionary) and these so far unfunded slanderous remarks immediately go on tour as proved facts. Only once did someone attempt to scam me, and it was an IMCA member. Not such a bad score, if you had thousands of transactions... And did you report that sam attempt to IMCA? Well, the complaint section you'll find here, open for everyone: http://imca.cc/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=7Itemid=70 If you feel, that this thread from a IMCA-member your talking about, was exceeding any acceptable way of usual conversation (no idea, how someone use to communicate) - just report it. Best! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Galactic Stone Ironworks Gesendet: Montag, 18. Mai 2009 23:43 An: Martin Altmann Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans Martin and List, Well, I just received a veiled death threat from an IMCA member for my last post. I can say in all honesty, that I have done hundreds (if not over a thousand) deals since joining the world of meteorites. Only once did someone attempt to scam me, and it was an IMCA member. IMCA credentials mean zero to me. Martin, you are one of the good guys and you know I respect you. But there are bad apples in the IMCA just like any other large group. Now I am debating whether I am going to contact the authorities over this death threat I just received. I guess I better shut my mouth before the IMCA sends a thug to my house. Best regards, MikeG On 5/18/09, Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: Mike, please... I just opened the ebay-site, searched for meteori*, got 1681 results. Please show me those auctions from IMCA-members, where fakes, not authentic or at least doubtful material (regarding the authenticity) are offered. And then list me those auctions from non-IMCA-members, where fakes, non authentic and doubtful material is offered. IMCA was founded to make meteorite trades safer for all. The result of your comparision will be, I dare to foresee, quite convincing, that that IMCA-thing already could be called quite a success. I guess, if you'll search for Sideroli and nandan, meteori* +sphere and tibet +meteori* ect. you will directly obtain your first 20-50 fakes, ..to make it a little bit easier. Hmm those meteoritic carbonados currently en vogue, I just can found only 2 offered. Together 50 k$. a nice sum to go shopping for real meteorites. To lazy (US-ebay is working so slowly on my computer since weeks?) to check how many tektites currently are offered there to the layman to have originated from the Moon... That's what IMCA mainly is about. And I'm so old, that I know the times before IMCA and how the situation was there, where everyone could sell any stone from his garden as meteorite, with the rookie, the laypeople, the unexperienced having zero possibility to know something about authenticity and having zero guidelines. Now his chances to be ripped off are definitely lower, when he looks for the IMCA-labels. (And I have by far less people to console in my practise, who bought crap as meteorites, than the years before). I for myself am astonished, how few complaints about alleged misdemeanour or fraud of IMCA-members reach IMCA. Remember IMCA is statuably obligated to proof each and every case reported. And in turn, if nobody complains, IMCA can't know the case. Remember that instrument is available for ALL, for non-members too, as long as the wrongdoing party is a member. Do you know any similar service in the meteoritic field? Hmm perhaps another, more empiric thought: Why do so many dealers, collector-dealers, collectors and those, who frequently or sporadically trade, sell, swap meteorites join IMCA, if that club is only a joke? Nobody urges them to do that, it's there free will and it even costs them 20 bucks and makes their transactions more difficult, if they obey the code of ethics. So why? If we let aside all that pathetic stuff about enthusiasm, education, safety for the consumer (shhht no outcry now please, I know that many of you joined also because of these intentions, but I try to explain something) and reduce that affair to the most disdainful or trivial reason: the commercial thing, the money, which I almost fear, at least if I read the recent postings of some of the list, seems to be the most understandable and maybe important factor in their
Re: [meteorite-list] IMCA subject
... Ok. I would like to say for the record, I am a member of the IMCA. Taking a step back and looking at the IMCA with a unbiased point of view, I see it as a group that has alot of potential and could be a great thing for the meteorite hobby. I do think its more of a dealers club then anything, but I also see it working on educational and informative things such as the new Martian site (which is really nice!) and even took a big step in getting encyclopedia of meteorites site. No group will ever be perfect or please everyone, but I think the IMCA is doing the best they can and are showing continued growth. That is important. While there is no governing body for meteorites, the IMCA is doing the best they can to fill that role the best are able to. I think more people should look at what the IMCA is doing rather then what they are not doing or what people think they should do and most would see that its really all in all a good group that has great goals. Greg C. --- On Mon, 5/18/09, Walter Branch waltbra...@bellsouth.net wrote: From: Walter Branch waltbra...@bellsouth.net Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans To: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Monday, May 18, 2009, 6:46 PM Hi Mike, Are you still a member of the IMCA? -Walter Branch - Original Message - From: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com To: Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 5:43 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NWA planetaries and Moroccans Martin and List, Well, I just received a veiled death threat from an IMCA member for my last post. I can say in all honesty, that I have done hundreds (if not over a thousand) deals since joining the world of meteorites. Only once did someone attempt to scam me, and it was an IMCA member. IMCA credentials mean zero to me. Martin, you are one of the good guys and you know I respect you. But there are bad apples in the IMCA just like any other large group. Now I am debating whether I am going to contact the authorities over this death threat I just received. I guess I better shut my mouth before the IMCA sends a thug to my house. Best regards, MikeG On 5/18/09, Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: Mike, please... I just opened the ebay-site, searched for meteori*, got 1681 results. Please show me those auctions from IMCA-members, where fakes, not authentic or at least doubtful material (regarding the authenticity) are offered. And then list me those auctions from non-IMCA-members, where fakes, non authentic and doubtful material is offered. IMCA was founded to make meteorite trades safer for all. The result of your comparision will be, I dare to foresee, quite convincing, that that IMCA-thing already could be called quite a success. I guess, if you'll search for Sideroli and nandan, meteori* +sphere and tibet +meteori* ect. you will directly obtain your first 20-50 fakes, ..to make it a little bit easier. Hmm those meteoritic carbonados currently en vogue, I just can found only 2 offered. Together 50 k$. a nice sum to go shopping for real meteorites. To lazy (US-ebay is working so slowly on my computer since weeks?) to check how many tektites currently are offered there to the layman to have originated from the Moon... That's what IMCA mainly is about. And I'm so old, that I know the times before IMCA and how the situation was there, where everyone could sell any stone from his garden as meteorite, with the rookie, the laypeople, the unexperienced having zero possibility to know something about authenticity and having zero guidelines. Now his chances to be ripped off are definitely lower, when he looks for the IMCA-labels. (And I have by far less people to console in my practise, who bought crap as meteorites, than the years before). I for myself am astonished, how few complaints about alleged misdemeanour or fraud of IMCA-members reach IMCA. Remember IMCA is statuably obligated to proof each and every case reported. And in turn, if nobody complains, IMCA can't know the case. Remember that instrument is available for ALL, for non-members too, as long as the wrongdoing party is a member. Do you know any similar service in the meteoritic field? Hmm perhaps another, more empiric thought: Why do so many dealers, collector-dealers, collectors and those, who frequently or sporadically trade, sell, swap meteorites join IMCA, if that club is only a joke? Nobody urges them to do that, it's there free will and it even costs them 20 bucks and makes their transactions more difficult, if they obey the code of ethics. So why? If we let aside all that pathetic stuff about
[meteorite-list] Contact for Terry Boswell Needed - Again
Hello All, I'm sorry to have to ask this again, but I'm still in need of contact information for Terry Boswell. If anyone has his cell number, I'd be much obliged; his home line hasn't been picked up for quite a while, so I'm assuming he's out and about on business. Thanks, Jason __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Non-IMCA Dealer Fake Meteorite for $10 Billion Dollars
Bought for $2 Million dollars, almost sold for $10 Billion! Also reveal two new methods for verification of meteorites. http://english.vietnamnet.vn/social/2009/05/845922/ http://english.vietnamnet.vn/social/2009/05/845922/ Space age con men detained 05:40' 06/05/2009 (GMT+7) Money and other exhibits HCM City police found as a wealthy man from Ninh Thuan Province was on the verge of being cheated in a fake meteorite deal. VietNamNet Bridge - Ho Chi Minh City police Monday detained three men in custody pending filing of criminal charges in a fake meteorite deal supportably worth US$3 million. Tran Van Um and Chau Soc of the Mekong Delta provinces of Kien Giang and An Giang respectively were caught on April 29 attempting to cheat a man identified only as Le. T. T. in the city’s outlying Binh Tan District. Um, Soc and a city businessman named Nguyen Van Canh set up the scheme early in April after learning that T., who hails from south-central Ninh Thuan Province, was a rich fish meal dealer. First they had Um, 43, make acquaintance with T. and win his confidence, and then invited him to co-invest in a meteorite for resale. T. soon got a call from 37-year-old Canh saying he urgently needed a $3- million meteorite for some US space research centers. The threesome waited for several days before Um informed T. that Soc in An Giang Province was selling a meteorite for a discount at VND10 billion ($562,300). Lured by the prospect of making a phenomenal profit, T. agreed to go with Um to meet Soc in An Giang Province, bringing glass and a lighter to check if the meteorite was genuine. The glass and the lighter were put into a bag that contained the meteorite, and then the parties began discussing the deal. According to some beliefs, meteorites make lighters dysfunctional and causes glass to break. During the discussion, Um blocked T.’s view so Soc could quickly change the contents of the bag replacing them with glass shards and a broken lighter T. was fooled by the ruse. On April 29, T. and Um were about to give Soc a VND1-billion deposit, 40 percent of which was T.’s money, to take the meteorite and show it to Canh. Tipped of by unrevealed sources, police caught Um and Soc red-handed, and Canh was brought to the police station later. Canh, who claimed he owns a meteorite dealing company in District 12, admitted the company was operating only as a pawnshop. The “meteorite” was a beautiful stone bought in Cambodia for VND2 million ($112), Soc told the police. The police have found that the threesome have used the same scheme to cheat two other city residents for almost VND2 billion. They are asking anyone who has been cheated by the meteorite scam to step forward and help investigate the case further and find out if a bigger ring is involved in the fraudulent business. VietNamNet/TN _ Windows Live helps you keep up with all your friends, in one place. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9660826 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] IMCA Moroccans
Hi, All, IMCA is a very young organization, and young organizations, almost by definition, are imperfect. That said, IMCA does more than any other organization to help insure authenticity of marketed meteorites. Note the word help, as they can't do it all and shouldn't be expected to do so. Before taking shots or laughing at IMCA, why not add some value to the debate of what makes for a better international community of meteorite exchange? I am an IMCA member and very much appreciate everything that they do (a handful of members and directors in particular, which is always the case in a large organization). That said, I do not personally agree with everything IMCA does -- and in some cases does not do -- but I've picked up the phone in those cases, spoken with directors, shared some thoughts which were intended to be productive, and supported them in full otherwise. It is impossible for a large group to satisfy the desires of every single member, not to mention, in this case, every collector on the meteorite list. But what say the detractors put in some effort and show up with a better mouse trap before glibly mocking the cheese? It is so easy to throw darts, and yet it takes a lot of effort to affect true, positive change. Lastly re: IMCA, this endless debate re: what constitutes a fair price is out of IMCA's realm and, beyond that, just plain tired. A fair price is what someone is willing to pay, period, so if it's not fair to you then don't pay it and have a nice day. The issue of allegedly dishonest Moroccan dealers also floated to the surface, yet again, in this most recent thread. I've had experience with several of those dealers over the years, and have always found them to be reputable. That is not to say that every transaction has gone smoothly, as from time to time they haven't. But at the end of the day, even when things haven't gone perfectly, it has been my experience that most deals run quite smoothly. And in the event where there is a misunderstanding -- usually emerging from the simple fact that I am unable to speak their native tongue as a second language as they rather effectively communicate in mine -- things tend to get sorted out in the end. Hope all's well over there in NWA, fellas... All best, Dave Gheesling IMCA #5967 www.fallingrocks.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] IMCA Moroccans
Well said, Dave. I'd like to add my $0.02 and say that anyone having disagreement with what IMCA does or doesn't do --- 1. Become a member and 2. Run for Office or volunteer your time to make a difference. Dave Carothers IMCA 2052 - Original Message - From: Dave Gheesling d...@fallingrocks.com To: 'Meteorite List' meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:30 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] IMCA Moroccans Hi, All, IMCA is a very young organization, and young organizations, almost by definition, are imperfect. That said, IMCA does more than any other organization to help insure authenticity of marketed meteorites. Note the word help, as they can't do it all and shouldn't be expected to do so. Before taking shots or laughing at IMCA, why not add some value to the debate of what makes for a better international community of meteorite exchange? I am an IMCA member and very much appreciate everything that they do (a handful of members and directors in particular, which is always the case in a large organization). That said, I do not personally agree with everything IMCA does -- and in some cases does not do -- but I've picked up the phone in those cases, spoken with directors, shared some thoughts which were intended to be productive, and supported them in full otherwise. It is impossible for a large group to satisfy the desires of every single member, not to mention, in this case, every collector on the meteorite list. But what say the detractors put in some effort and show up with a better mouse trap before glibly mocking the cheese? It is so easy to throw darts, and yet it takes a lot of effort to affect true, positive change. Lastly re: IMCA, this endless debate re: what constitutes a fair price is out of IMCA's realm and, beyond that, just plain tired. A fair price is what someone is willing to pay, period, so if it's not fair to you then don't pay it and have a nice day. The issue of allegedly dishonest Moroccan dealers also floated to the surface, yet again, in this most recent thread. I've had experience with several of those dealers over the years, and have always found them to be reputable. That is not to say that every transaction has gone smoothly, as from time to time they haven't. But at the end of the day, even when things haven't gone perfectly, it has been my experience that most deals run quite smoothly. And in the event where there is a misunderstanding -- usually emerging from the simple fact that I am unable to speak their native tongue as a second language as they rather effectively communicate in mine -- things tend to get sorted out in the end. Hope all's well over there in NWA, fellas... All best, Dave Gheesling IMCA #5967 www.fallingrocks.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Zacatecas 1792
Dear List, Please enjoy a photo of Zacatecas (1792), perhaps it is helpful. http://www.diogenite.com/zacs92.jpg Sorry I am quiet lately, I am recovering from surgery and it hurts to even type, so any emails I owe, kindly be patient. Best wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Michael Fowler mqfow...@mac.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Michael Fowler mqfow...@mac.com Sent: Mon, 18 May 2009 11:34 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Zacatecas 1792 Hi Bernd, There are only 2 people whose posts I read every time, no matter what the subject. You are one and Sterling Webb is the other. Thanks for forwarding the picture from Buchwald. Perhaps you are being diplomatic in letting us form our own opinion as to whether the sample on ebay is similar to the photo in Buchwald? However, what do you think of the written description that I excerpted in my original post? polycrystalline. (with) no well defined widmanstatten pattern. I've looked at a couple of photo's of Santa Rosa, to which Buchwald compares Zacatecas (1792) and there is no comparison to the slice on ebay. Perhaps we can find photos from major institutions to compare to, where there will be no doubt as to the provenance. After all if most collectors bought from the same source and that source is incorrect, then pictures in collector hands will all be similarly in er ror. Thanks, Mike Fowler __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list meteorite-l...@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
