[meteorite-list] Bad anniversary......
Hello Two years ago humanity underwent one of the worsts made an attempt aside of a band of fanatical that use the excuse that their God wanted this does killing beyond 2000 innocent persons. This infamy, like other made always aside of this people, never will be forgotten, in the hope that a day the same that did this thing, will pay on their skin this infamy. Regards Matteo = M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140 MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Cold hunting
I suspect most meteorites bury themselves on impact to just below the surface in soft sand/dirt so, I think the rate of 'soil covering' will make the difference, a dry desert soil is generally eroded away by winds to reveal them, and somewhere like tropical Britain (well this year at least!) has a very high rate of soil covering, from rotting plant life and water silting etc so any meteorites are more likely to be covered with a thick layer of soil in just a few hundred years, sitting in deep drier soil might actually preserve better them of course than sitting out in the rain and air? I suspect therefore that hunting meteorites in anything other than desert or a strewnfield, will require you to dig deep! The trouble with statistics is they imply a uniform distribution of impacts, there could of course be a massive pile of meteorites in your next door neighbors house and none in the rest of the country :) ... But then of course our very own Rob Elliot finds some laying on the ground in the dampest erm.. I mean prettiest place on earth - Scotland(!) :) Cheers, Mark __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Dave Freeman's Rock Springs Meteorite
Here's an image of the L6 that Dave is talking about: http://www.geocities.com/bolidechaser/rocksprings/rckspr88.jpg Happy Birthday, Dave! And best wishes, Bob V. - [meteorite-list] Cold hunting David Freeman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed, 10 Sep 2003 21:03:34 -0600 Dear List; One more point, I recognized my 53.7 gram meteorite at about 40 feet away, and could confirm it to be meteoritic at about 30 feet by the excellent crust. I would have not seen it at all probably if I were in a vehicle, or riding a four wheeler. My method is walk ten steps, scan left to the comfortable sight range to see a golf ball sized black item (about 100 feet in good light and clear skies), look across in front of me in a long sweep of the eyes, and off to the right the same distance. Ten more steps (about 30 feet for long legged me) and do it again. Keep in mind, no rocks in my playa lake bed but I am sorting through antelope droppings, sheep droppings, and horse piles. The main plan is to discern the meteorites from the animal droppings. Riding a four wheeler, or bicycle wouldn't work, as there had been previous 4 wheeler tracks in a methodic pattern running back and forth across the playa and about 100 foot swaths and they failed to find the one, and I am pretty sure it was one of my student meteorite hunters that missed the golden opportunity by traveling too fast. Attention to detail was what helped me locate that fusion crust, and handling and looking at maybe a hundred pounds of individual NWA's really imprinted that fusion crust in my mind. That was important to me...that and putting down that remote control, the mouse, and getting out to where the meteorites should be found. Time spent in the field where the meteorites live is the most important factor for my find. They don't usually come through the roof. Best, DAve F. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Cold hunting
I believe Mark is perfectly right by saying that most meteorites are lying below the soil surface. I did not make any compiling but I guess if you go through all the Met. Bull's reporting meteorite FINDS, I am pretty sure that about (at least ?) half of them were found through plowing some field. Not taking into account those found by H.H. Nininger in due time on rock piles on the edges of the wide Midwest fields, that probably stem from the same origin, namely from somewhere under the surface where they were plowed from. Just as a famous example, remember that the Esquel main mass (the only mass ?) was found, really by chance, through sinking a well...at a depth of about 7 meters! Up to you to go to remote Argentina, find out the exact place (that is not in Esquel city) and dig 7 meters next to that well (if it still ever exists) to find (perhaps) another mass...perhaps... But this is an extreme example and I agree that most of (survived) meteorites would be found at a reasonably small depth. I imagine here a new rush towards Sahara or other deserts in search for new NWA's burried in soil not often exposed to strong winds...but I can imagine Rob is rather willing digging his damp soil around Milton of Balgonie...The race is open... Best to all, Zelimir At 08:58 11/09/03 +0100, you wrote: I suspect most meteorites bury themselves on impact to just below the surface in soft sand/dirt so, I think the rate of 'soil covering' will make the difference, a dry desert soil is generally eroded away by winds to reveal them, and somewhere like tropical Britain (well this year at least!) has a very high rate of soil covering, from rotting plant life and water silting etc so any meteorites are more likely to be covered with a thick layer of soil in just a few hundred years, sitting in deep drier soil might actually preserve better them of course than sitting out in the rain and air? I suspect therefore that hunting meteorites in anything other than desert or a strewnfield, will require you to dig deep! The trouble with statistics is they imply a uniform distribution of impacts, there could of course be a massive pile of meteorites in your next door neighbors house and none in the rest of the country :) ... But then of course our very own Rob Elliot finds some laying on the ground in the dampest erm.. I mean prettiest place on earth - Scotland(!) :) Cheers, Mark __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ** Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Groupe Sécurité et Ecologie Chimiques (GSEC) - ENSCMu 3, rue A. Werner F-68093 MULHOUSE Cedex, FRANCE Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 FAX: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Cold hunting
Zelmir, Well put, given the potential value of a massive chunk of Esquel I am supprised no one has sunk further holes around the site! If I lived near by, I'd certainly do it myself! Maybe the use of a magnetometer would be the way to go, these days there is a myriad of equipment designed to locate buried metals... One tactic of finding meteorites would be to mount very powerful magnets onto a tractor Plough, and trawl over acres of farm land. Something I have been trying a local farmer friend of mine to do for ages! Mark __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mission to Meteor Crater
http://www.azdailysun.com/non_sec/nav_includes/story.cfm?storyID=72845 Mission to Meteor Crater By SETH MULLER Arizona Daily Sun September 11, 2003 Although a manned mission to Mars remains in the realm of science fiction, more than a dozen NASA scientists and contractors have been conducting on-the-ground experiments with robotics, mapping and communication equipment around Meteor Crater. The data they have collected during the two weeks of experiments, which end today, will help lay down the groundwork and identify challenges with missions to Mars. But no date has been set for that next great space adventure. We are developing space suits, robotics systems and communications, said Joe Kosmo, spokesman for NASA. None of what you see will go to Mars, but the information we learn from it will be passed on. One piece of equipment used in the experiments was a robot on four wheels that could theoretically assist Mars astronauts as they surveyed the terrain. The 400-pound prototype robot was designed by defense contractor Titan, based in San Jose, Calif., and it costs $50,000 without the extras. One extra is a $100,000, three-fingered robotic arm. The robot was tested on the terrain around Meteor Crater while towing a portable science lab, which also weighs 400 pounds, with the power of its battery pack. It's probably the only robot in the world with a trailer hitch, said Jeff Graham, who works as a contractor for NASA and who noted that the robot was being operated by three laptop computers. Graham said Titan is trying to push the envelope with the development of the robot, which they want to function and operate as an extension of the astronaut. For example, Graham is looking at ways the robot can respond to gestures made by the astronaut, instead of only verbal commands. NASA also tested out some communication systems. They experimented as if Arizona was Mars and Houston was Earth to see how communication and data collection would fare. Communications expert Marc Seibert and other NASA officials said the development of strong, interactive communication with a manned Mars mission is a major challenge. Seibert explained that, with the experiments going on at Meteor Crater, it takes less than half-a-second to zap a link to a satellite, back to a ground station in Cleveland and on to Houston. So, they can work in real time. With Mars, you get a feel of what the distance is like when you realize it will take five to 20 minutes for (the link) to travel, each way, Seibert said. It severs the possibility of real-time interaction. Seibert said that current technology does not allow communication to travel any faster than the speed of light. There's a chance that scientists and inventors may find a way to make it travel faster, but that's more in the realm of science fiction than putting a man on Mars. The tests are conducted at Meteor Crater and locations nearby because the landscape closely resembles that of Mars and other planets. NASA has historically used Meteor Crater, the best preserved meteor impact site in the world, for training and experiments. Meteor Crater was the site of training for the Apollo astronauts who went to the moon. Impact craters and volcanos are common on planets throughout the solar system, said Dean Eppler, a geologist with NASA. So when you test around impact sites and volcanos, you can't go wrong. In Arizona, we can find everything we need within a 35-mile radius. As they tried to work on Tuesday, heavy bouts of precipitation moved through as part of a cold front, creating some complications and delays for the NASA workers. At least on Mars, it won't rain, Kosmo said. Reporter Seth Muller can be reached at 913-8607 or by e-mailing him at [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you go: On Friday, NASA will hold a public education program at Meteor Crater, located 35 miles east of Flagstaff on Interstate 40. The program will take place from 8 a.m. to 1 p.m. and will involve demonstrations of the equipment. Attendees will have to pay admission to Meteor Crater park to see the programs. For more information, call (800) 289-5898. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] PURTARANO
Wow what a beautiful piece of earth rock.It is so hard to believe that this is not a meteorite, in stead of meteorwrong.I want to thank matt morgan for letting me purchase a piece of PURTARANO.I just got a 219 gram slice.This thing is gorgeous.It looks so much like a stony iron.It looks alot like morristown.Thanks again to matt for letting me have this great looking slice. steve arnold = Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728 Illinois Meteorites website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/illinoismeteorites/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re [meteorite-list] Cold hunting/Esquel
Mark, Interesting comments. However I am not sure somebody still knows where exactly that well was sunk. Esquel was supposed to be found back in 1951 (ref.: Meteorites from A to Z). I know the finder kept the piece for long years before he made it expertized as meteorite and again it took him even more time to sell it. He probably passed away since and I doubt anybody now knows for the exact find place, not even the first buyer (to my best knowledge). I will not argue whether or not it is better so, precisely because of its potential value... Regards, Zelimir At 15:15 11/09/03 +0100, you wrote: Zelmir, Well put, given the potential value of a massive chunk of Esquel I am supprised no one has sunk further holes around the site! If I lived near by, I'd certainly do it myself! Maybe the use of a magnetometer would be the way to go, these days there is a myriad of equipment designed to locate buried metals... One tactic of finding meteorites would be to mount very powerful magnets onto a tractor Plough, and trawl over acres of farm land. Something I have been trying a local farmer friend of mine to do for ages! Mark ** Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Groupe Sécurité et Ecologie Chimiques (GSEC) - ENSCMu 3, rue A. Werner F-68093 MULHOUSE Cedex, FRANCE Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 FAX: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mysterious Blast Shakes Nanaimo, Canada
http://www.globeandmail.ca/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030911.wnama0911/BNStory/National/ Mysterious blast shakes Nanaimo Canadian Press September 11, 2003 Nanaimo, B.C. -- Was it a sonic boom, a dynamite blast, or an asteroid hitting the earth? Government and local emergency services were stumped Wednesday afternoon, unable to explain a powerful blast that shook Nanaimo from stem to stern. The blast, which occurred around 1 p.m., was heard and felt as far south as Chemainus, and as far north as Nanoose. Nanaimo RCMP say no damage or injuries had been reported. One thing is fairly certain: it was not an earthquake, although it did register on a seismograph in Nanaimo. From the signature of the wavelength, it does not look like an earthquake, it looks like an explosion, said Alison Bird, an earthquake seismologist with the Geological Survey of Canada. There were reports of dynamiting on Mount Benson. But dynamiting requires a permit, and the Ministry of Energy and Mines, the City of Nanaimo's public works department and the Regional District of Nanaimo all said there were no permits issued for any blasting Wednesday. A Ministry of Forests spokesman in Port Alberni also said he was not aware of any blasting or road building going on Mount Benson. A spokesperson with Comox air base said there were no jets in the area Wednesday that would have been capable of creating a sonic boom. Nor was the army engaged in artillery practice. A shock and blast expert at the University of Victoria says the weather patterns Wednesday were nearly perfect for sound wave refraction, which could mean the blast may have come from some distance. You may get focusing of a blast, which may come from a lot further away than you think, says Dr. Alex van Netten of the University of Victoria's physics department. Under certain weather conditions, sound can refract, and the focal point may be many miles away from the source. The sound may actually be louder at the focal point (many miles away) than it is in the immediate vicinity of the explosion. Today is a typical day, with clouds, when you'll get a temperature inversion, he said Wednesday. This is a classic situation where you have a focusing of sound. It might be further out than you think. It might even be in Vancouver. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] meteorite ground movment
Hello List, How much can a meteorite move? Kingman's old airfield used the outskirts of kingman as a shooting range during WW2 and I asked the airfield museum how many 50 caliber bullets they shot on this range. The airfield museum curator did not remember the exact number, but he remembered it was close to a billion! I decided to take my detector out to a large wash today to look for gold. Gold in washes tends to concentrate in certain areas. Every time I checked these areas, I found hundreds if not thousands of these 50 caliber slugs. I followed the trail back up to the desert floors and could see how they were gathering together from all directions to end up in the wash. It was clearly run off from our big monsoon storms that were moving these slugs. This is exactly how the gold gets into the washes but a little easier to see with almost a billion of these 41g slugs. Now the question has to be asked, are meteorites moving the same way? Are they ending up in some lake or river somewhere? Thanks, Tom Peregrineflier The proudest member of the IMCA 6168 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Re: Recent Flash Floods
Hello List, Over the past several weeks I've had the opportunity to visit 14 dry lakes in CA and NV. I'm here to report that I have some good news. All of the 14 dry lakes that I recon'd were in typically good shape with only a couple having experienced marginal flooding and minor resurfacing. None of the lakes experienced total inundation. And only two lakes were still wet with standing water (mostly pond-sized, and close to the shore that is leeward of the summertime predominant wind direction). So, for those people who were changing their travel plans, because of recent news reports about flash-flooding, I hope this message lessens your concerns. That's not to say that the news reports were exaggerated. Clearly, the inundation of Zzyzx was at least a 25-year flood, caused by a cloudburst that was localized over a single dry wash. My original message was a request for information in order to tell whether any of these storms were producing 50-year, or up to 500-year, flood effects in these basins. Here are some images I took of large rocks on a dry lake, the only evidence remaining of the catastrophic effects of a 50- to 500-year flood surge: http://www.geocities.com/bolidechaser/drylakes/ca030905.jpg I've coined the term rock-garden to describe this unique type of (boulder-sized) lag gravel. The finer clasts (pebbles, sand, silt, and mud) have long since been dispersed across the lake by succeeding high-water wave action: http://www.geocities.com/bolidechaser/drylakes/ca030905b.jpg Again, thanks to those who shared with me their pre- post-flood observations. Bob V. [meteorite-list] Re: Recent Flash Floods Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri, 22 Aug 2003 09:25:55 -0700 (PDT) On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 12:30:11 -0700 (PDT) Robert Verish This most recent influx of moisture into the deserts has caused severe flash-flooding. Up until now, the dry lakes have been overly wet with standing water, but flash-flooding has the energy to bring large volumes of mud and rock with that water, out into the middle of these playas and bury any promising surface with a new layer of sediment. First, the flooding is not going to carry any rock of any size into the playa. == message truncated == __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Re: Recent Flash Floods
Hello List, Over the past several weeks I've had the opportunity to visit 14 dry lakes in CA and NV. I'm here to report that I have some good news. All of the 14 dry lakes that I recon'd were in typically good shape with only a couple having experienced marginal flooding and minor resurfacing. None of the lakes experienced total inundation. And only two lakes were still wet with standing water (mostly pond-sized, and close to the shore that is leeward of the summertime predominant wind direction). So, for those people who were changing their travel plans, because of recent news reports about flash-flooding, I hope this message lessens your concerns. That's not to say that the news reports were exaggerated. Clearly, the inundation of Zzyzx was at least a 25-year flood, caused by a cloudburst that was localized over a single dry wash. My original message was a request for information in order to tell whether any of these storms were producing 50-year, or up to 500-year, flood effects in these basins. Here are some images I took of large rocks on a dry lake, the only evidence remaining of the catastrophic effects of a 50- to 500-year flood surge: http://www.geocities.com/bolidechaser/drylakes/ca030905.jpg I've coined the term rock-garden to describe this unique type of (boulder-sized) lag gravel. The finer clasts (pebbles, sand, silt, and mud) have long since been dispersed across the lake by succeeding high-water wave action: http://www.geocities.com/bolidechaser/drylakes/ca030905b.jpg Again, thanks to those who shared with me their pre- post-flood observations. Bob V. [meteorite-list] Re: Recent Flash Floods Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri, 22 Aug 2003 09:25:55 -0700 (PDT) On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 12:30:11 -0700 (PDT) Robert Verish This most recent influx of moisture into the deserts has caused severe flash-flooding. Up until now, the dry lakes have been overly wet with standing water, but flash-flooding has the energy to bring large volumes of mud and rock with that water, out into the middle of these playas and bury any promising surface with a new layer of sediment. First, the flooding is not going to carry any rock of any size into the playa. == message truncated == __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Bad Anniversary
Matteo, Thank You for remembering and commenting on the national tragedy that happened two years ago. No one here has forgotten it still is a sad day for many of us. I live in a Chicago suburb and many people here are conducting fundraisers benefiting the people who lost so many in New York. Hopefully one day everyone who was involved with that cowardly act will pay for it. Regards, Bob Evans __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Park Forest thin sections
Hello all- I am gearing up to run some PF thin sections on eBay and I have one without a cover slip for you microprobe folks out there. Best offer $40 or more come Sunday takes it, otherwise it'll be on eBay too. http://imagehost.vendio.com/preview/ra/rancor/PFTSNC.jpg I also have 4 with cover slips for $40 each that have large surface area, equal to or greater than the one pictured, and 3 with smaller area for $30 U.S. Priority shipping $3.85, Global Priority $5.50 Oh, and they come in a snappy little case with all the Park Forest info on it. -- Rob Wesel -- We are the music makers...and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Cold hunting?
Hi Sterling and List, Sterling wrote: Taking the area of the Earth to be 5.1 x 10^8 km^2 and the meteorite flux to be 23,930 yr^-1 (that's the figure from the MORP study), this yields the assumed collisional cross section of the earth to be 21,360 km^2 yr^-1. This rate means that one meteorite per year falls on an area of 21,320 square kilometers. ... Of course, I think the MORP fall rate is too low and the real fall rate could be 3-4 times higher. Yes -- the MORP study rate is definitely too low. If there's a researcher out there that would be interested in terrestrial age-dating a representative sampling of my finds, we could place a nice lower bound on the annual fall rate. A meteorite could fall on every square kilometer every 6,000 years or so. In that case, if a meteorite lasted 40,000 years and one fell every 6,000 years, they're be five or six on every square kilometer. One of our list geologists could better assess the span of time that southern California and southern Nevada playas have been dry -- for example, up until about 15,000 years ago, Lake Manix covered a couple hundred square miles of the region around Barstow. Thus, I wouldn't expect to find meteorites older than 15,000 years from this zone. The earthquake that drained Lake Manix sent the water in the direction of Silver and Soda dry lakes near Baker, so these areas remained wet even more recently. On average, I wouldn't expect to find more than about 3 unpaired meteorites per square kilometer in these areas. In well grid-searched areas, the Mojave recovery rate approaches and occasionally exceeds 1 unpaired find per square kilometer. Walking at 5 km/hour with a maximum detection range of +/- 10 meters, such an area can be searched in 10 hours (though most people aren't likely to walk over 30 miles in a single day!) Choose your search locations intelligently, and finding meteorites is reduced to a problem of focus and perseverance. --Rob __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Cold hunting question
Just wondering who owns these areas you "cold hunters" are searching? Are areas like the Gold Basin and Bonneville Salt Flats publicly owned or do you make arrangements with individual land owners? WarrenJoin Excite! - http://www.excite.comThe most personalized portal on the Web!
Re: [meteorite-list] PURTARANO
Steve and others, A few months ago I posted a thread to the list that basically said that while the Putorana looks like a mesosiderite...that when I compared it to Vaca Muerta in thin section, they look nothing alike at all. Plain and simple the Putorana looks like the basalt that it has been identified as. My question to others is why did it take so long to figure that out when it seems so obvious to a novice like me...in thin section?. Are there other mesosiderites that look like basalt in thin section? If so, which ones? If not...were the researchers considering it to be a new type? Also noteworthy is that Ivan (finmet) is selling Putorana again, and his description is alluding to it being considered to be extraterrestrial again, because in his/others words...such a rock cannot exist on earth (native iron separated within a rock). Does anyone know what is going on with the research of this material. Is it really being considered to from out of this world again? Putorana sure looks like basalt to me...and it does not like any eucrite or diogentite that I've seen in thin section...which are the known rock parts of mesosiderites. Puzzled again, John Wow what a beautiful piece of earth rock.It is so hard to believe that this is not a meteorite, in stead of meteorwrong.I want to thank matt morgan for letting me purchase a piece of PURTARANO.I just got a 219 gram slice.This thing is gorgeous.It looks so much like a stony iron.It looks alot like morristown.Thanks again to matt for letting me have this great looking slice. steve arnold = Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728 Illinois Meteorites website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/illinoismeteorites/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Cold hunting?
Hi, Rob, Actually, I seem to recall that Phil Bland at the Natural History Museum in London (formerly called The British Museum and always will be in my head) did a study doing terrestial age-dating all the meteorites from several given areas, just to get the age distribution and a figure on how long meteorites survive in a surface location and to get a handle on the fall rate. Somewhere in the Meteorite List archives there's a summary article on it... As I recall, he came up with a terrestial fall rate about 2 to 2-1/2 times the MORP rate, survival times of 40,000 to 50,000 years in deserts like the Sahara, and very short survival times for chondrites in squishy Britain. About what you'd expect, in other words. Part of his figure of a fall rate only 2-1/2 times the MORP rate in his study is the assumption that the Sahara has always been as dry as it is now. The wetter the Sahara actually was, the greater the fall rate would have to be to produce the existing survivor stones. I scrounged around and found a great deal of substantial geological research done in the Sahara before World War II, when there was much freer access to the area. First, there are extensive surface traces of former waterways and full riverene drainage systems still visible, enough so that fairly good maps of the old wet Sahara can be drawn. Then, there has been considerable research on the buried rivers of the Sahara, where the water still flows, but hundreds of feet under the surface. These buried rivers connect existing oasises and the pattern of their interconnection can be determined by a comparison of the dozens of species of fish that are found only in the buried rivers! Now, that must have been interesting research, going fishing in the Sahara! Amazingly, it turns out that the buried rivers of the Sahara are (or were) apparently connected to or with similiar buried rivers in the Middle East and northern East Africa in geologically recent time. (None of the fish are blind fish as you find in cave ecosystems.) Then, there's the neolithic art (12,000 to 16,000 years old) in the depths of the Sahara, showing hunting scenes with a plentitude of game animals that are now only found many hundreds of miles south of the Sahara. I was going to send all these references to Dr. Bland but I got lazy (or stayed lazy) and never did it. Anyway, the point being that more rocks have to fall on a wet Sahara to produce the existing age distribution than on an eternally dry Sahara. About twice as many, a fall rate of 4 to 5 times the MORP rate, because the Sahara wasn't ever soaking wet. It was sort of like Nebraska, but without the winters. I wonder if there isn't some way of factoring out the finder's percentage and deriving not just a minimum fall rate but the actual fall rate from such an area collection? Sterling K. Webb Matson, Robert wrote: Yes -- the MORP study rate is definitely too low. If there's a researcher out there that would be interested in terrestrial age-dating a representative sampling of my finds, we could place a nice lower bound on the annual fall rate. --Rob __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re 2: [meteorite-list] PUTORANA not PURTARANO
List members, I'll respond to my own thread by going one step further...recognizing that eucrites and terrestrial basalts are chemically about the same. However, looking at the few eucrites I have, they are much finer grained and less colorful than the Putorana basalt. The plagioclase needles are much larger and more prevalent in the Putorana sample I have when compared to the eucrites I have. Putorana looks something like the terrestrial basalt photo on page 154 of the Cambridge Encylcopedia of Meteorites by Norton. The Putorana is even more colorful and is loaded with twinnig plag needles and moderately sized pheoncrysts of pyroxene and olivine than that basalt picture on 154. Putorana does look like a couple sections I have, but they are terrestrial gabbros...one being a plain old (but beautiful) diabase and the other is a modified(cooked) gabbro called metadiabase. The diabase and Putorana look very much alike in thin section ...minus the metal seen in Putorana. Even my Zagami section, a Mars basalt, looks nothing like Putorana in thin section. See 169 for sample of it. So, can anyone tell us that they have seen a eucrite that looks like Putorana in thin section? Maybe I'll get someone to post some of my pictures on their site to compare. I'll also contact Jeff Rowell for his take on this issue...he has a number of sections including Putorana and several eucrites. John Steve and others, A few months ago I posted a thread to the list that basically said that while the Putorana looks like a mesosiderite...that when I compared it to Vaca Muerta in thin section, they look nothing alike at all. Plain and simple the Putorana looks like the basalt that it has been identified as. My question to others is why did it take so long to figure that out when it seems so obvious to a novice like me...in thin section?. Are there other mesosiderites that look like basalt in thin section? If so, which ones? If not...were the researchers considering it to be a new type? Also noteworthy is that Ivan (finmet) is selling Putorana again, and his description is alluding to it being considered to be extraterrestrial again, because in his/others words...such a rock cannot exist on earth (native iron separated within a rock). Does anyone know what is going on with the research of this material. Is it really being considered to from out of this world again? Putorana sure looks like basalt to me...and it does not like any eucrite or diogentite that I've seen in thin section...which are the known rock parts of mesosiderites. Puzzled again, John Wow what a beautiful piece of earth rock.It is so hard to believe that this is not a meteorite, in stead of meteorwrong.I want to thank matt morgan for letting me purchase a piece of PURTARANO.I just got a 219 gram slice.This thing is gorgeous.It looks so much like a stony iron.It looks alot like morristown.Thanks again to matt for letting me have this great looking slice. steve arnold = Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728 Illinois Meteorites website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/illinoismeteorites/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Cold hunting
Hi All, On the subject of met hunting, Dave P. replied to my remark: Matson: If you want to reduce search time per (cold) meteorite find (i.e. non-strewnfield), the #1 factor is survival time -- you must maximize it any way you can: 1. Low deposition rate -- ideally a ~negative~ deposition rate: you'd prefer a surface that is deflating 2. Low annual precipitation 3. Minimal human presence - with: There is yet another way. Search a known strewn field - not one that has been picked over but one that has not. Searching a known strewn field (picked over or not) will naturally produce meteorites faster than any non-strewn field. (The discussion thread was specific to cold hunting.) Certainly if anyone wanted to find a meteorite as quickly as possible, I would direct them to Holbrook, Gold Basin, Park Forest, Allende etc. as no large strewn field is ever completely searched out, and you have the further advantage of knowing exactly what you're looking for. (Caveat on Gold Basin: this area has been searched for a long time by a very large number of people, so the rate of new GB finds is perhaps approaching the natural background rate of any good desert locale. Just look at the number of non-GB finds that have been made.) On the same subject, Zelimir Gabelica wrote: I believe Mark is perfectly right by saying that most meteorites are lying below the soil surface. I did not make any compiling but I guess if you go through all the Met. Bull's reporting meteorite FINDS, I am pretty sure that about (at least ?) half of them were found through plowing some field. You're forgetting about NWA, and more importantly Antarctica. The number of buried meteorite finds is an insignificant fraction compared to those found on the surface. Cheers, Rob __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: Re 2: [meteorite-list] PUTORANA not PURTARANO
John: For starters read the article at the bottom of the page here.. http://www.mhmeteorites.com/pubs/news.htm This may help you see why and how things got strange with this rock. Matt Morgan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 7:41 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Steve Arnold, Chicago!!!; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re 2: [meteorite-list] PUTORANA not PURTARANO List members, I'll respond to my own thread by going one step further...recognizing that eucrites and terrestrial basalts are chemically about the same. However, looking at the few eucrites I have, they are much finer grained and less colorful than the Putorana basalt. The plagioclase needles are much larger and more prevalent in the Putorana sample I have when compared to the eucrites I have. Putorana looks something like the terrestrial basalt photo on page 154 of the Cambridge Encylcopedia of Meteorites by Norton. The Putorana is even more colorful and is loaded with twinnig plag needles and moderately sized pheoncrysts of pyroxene and olivine than that basalt picture on 154. Putorana does look like a couple sections I have, but they are terrestrial gabbros...one being a plain old (but beautiful) diabase and the other is a modified(cooked) gabbro called metadiabase. The diabase and Putorana look very much alike in thin section ...minus the metal seen in Putorana. Even my Zagami section, a Mars basalt, looks nothing like Putorana in thin section. See 169 for sample of it. So, can anyone tell us that they have seen a eucrite that looks like Putorana in thin section? Maybe I'll get someone to post some of my pictures on their site to compare. I'll also contact Jeff Rowell for his take on this issue...he has a number of sections including Putorana and several eucrites. John Steve and others, A few months ago I posted a thread to the list that basically said that while the Putorana looks like a mesosiderite...that when I compared it to Vaca Muerta in thin section, they look nothing alike at all. Plain and simple the Putorana looks like the basalt that it has been identified as. My question to others is why did it take so long to figure that out when it seems so obvious to a novice like me...in thin section?. Are there other mesosiderites that look like basalt in thin section? If so, which ones? If not...were the researchers considering it to be a new type? Also noteworthy is that Ivan (finmet) is selling Putorana again, and his description is alluding to it being considered to be extraterrestrial again, because in his/others words...such a rock cannot exist on earth (native iron separated within a rock). Does anyone know what is going on with the research of this material. Is it really being considered to from out of this world again? Putorana sure looks like basalt to me...and it does not like any eucrite or diogentite that I've seen in thin section...which are the known rock parts of mesosiderites. Puzzled again, John Wow what a beautiful piece of earth rock.It is so hard to believe that this is not a meteorite, in stead of meteorwrong.I want to thank matt morgan for letting me purchase a piece of PURTARANO.I just got a 219 gram slice.This thing is gorgeous.It looks so much like a stony iron.It looks alot like morristown.Thanks again to matt for letting me have this great looking slice. steve arnold = Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728 Illinois Meteorites website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/illinoismeteorites/ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Re: Recent Flash Floods
Hi Bob, nice images of the *rock garden*! i am still trying to see which one of the images show the meteorites. You seemed to forget to describe for us where to look for them! :-) Sternengruss, Moni ps. i remember you sending this along with the Nevada Meteorite Picture of the Day. Explanation: Can't find the meteorite? Here's a hint - look down directly beside the driver-side front door for a small black rock. From: Robert Verish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list Meteoritecentral [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: Recent Flash Floods Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 14:18:28 -0700 (PDT) Hello List, Over the past several weeks I've had the opportunity to visit 14 dry lakes in CA and NV. I'm here to report that I have some good news. All of the 14 dry lakes that I recon'd were in typically good shape with only a couple having experienced marginal flooding and minor resurfacing. None of the lakes experienced total inundation. And only two lakes were still wet with standing water (mostly pond-sized, and close to the shore that is leeward of the summertime predominant wind direction). So, for those people who were changing their travel plans, because of recent news reports about flash-flooding, I hope this message lessens your concerns. That's not to say that the news reports were exaggerated. Clearly, the inundation of Zzyzx was at least a 25-year flood, caused by a cloudburst that was localized over a single dry wash. My original message was a request for information in order to tell whether any of these storms were producing 50-year, or up to 500-year, flood effects in these basins. Here are some images I took of large rocks on a dry lake, the only evidence remaining of the catastrophic effects of a 50- to 500-year flood surge: http://www.geocities.com/bolidechaser/drylakes/ca030905.jpg I've coined the term rock-garden to describe this unique type of (boulder-sized) lag gravel. The finer clasts (pebbles, sand, silt, and mud) have long since been dispersed across the lake by succeeding high-water wave action: http://www.geocities.com/bolidechaser/drylakes/ca030905b.jpg Again, thanks to those who shared with me their pre- post-flood observations. Bob V. [meteorite-list] Re: Recent Flash Floods Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri, 22 Aug 2003 09:25:55 -0700 (PDT) On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 12:30:11 -0700 (PDT) Robert Verish This most recent influx of moisture into the deserts has caused severe flash-flooding. Up until now, the dry lakes have been overly wet with standing water, but flash-flooding has the energy to bring large volumes of mud and rock with that water, out into the middle of these playas and bury any promising surface with a new layer of sediment. First, the flooding is not going to carry any rock of any size into the playa. == message truncated == __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ Need more e-mail storage? Get 10MB with Hotmail Extra Storage. http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
