Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites in limestone - Example from Sweden
Hi, Robert, The point of the Swedish paper was that at this geological period there were a lot more meteorites in the limestone than there should be, based on today's fall rate. There were so many more meteorites that the authors proposed a period of intense meteorite falls, a veritable rain of meteorites. So, if you have a limestone exposure of the same age, presumably a high density of meteorites is possible. I'd go look if I were you. (All of my local limestone peters out more than 120,000,000 years shy of the date.) There were a lot of very odd things going on in the solar system at this point in time, around a half billion years ago, with which a huge rain of meteroites would fit right in. There was an earth ice age that came very close to covering the entire planet with ice right down to the equator, causing a really super mass extinction (544 mya). There was also an odd period during which the earth's axis flipped over in less than 10 million years (530 mya). The surface of Venus was completely 100% re-surfaced with an entirely new crust at the same time (~500 mya). And several major asteroid families seem to date their initial breakup from the same period. Seems like everybody was having a bad day... Sterling K. Webb - Robert Szep wrote: Hello Paul and list... I have found IRON NODULES in ~500 million year old limestone and know where to find more. They are rather smooth and not, repeat NOT badly 'rusted'. The limestone surrounding the small pocket left behind after removing the metal-object shows some discoloration but only in very close proximity to where the nodule was. The metal in this limestone is far from abundant but then again I didn't hammer my way through any major amount of host material. At the time I thought the dense, roughly 1/2 inch nuggets might be meteorites but figured the odds were slim. After reading your posting I realized the odds might not be nearly as slim as I originally considered them to be. Here is my question to you and the 'list'... When a small metal object is found in ~500 million year old limestone, what are the chances of that object being a meteorite? Replies to this posting, if any, should be interesting. If the consensis is better than 50/50 I might collect a few specimens this weekend. Best regards, Robert Szep. - Original Message - From: Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 10:40 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Unconventional Meteorite Hunting - Example from Sweden It seems like there are some unconventional places that people can look for meteorites. For example, ancient meteorites have been found in the carbonate rocks of Sweden as discussed in: Schmitz, B. Peucker-Ehrenbrink, Lindstrom, M., and Tassinari, M., 1997, Accretion Rates of Meteorites andCosmic Dust in the Early Ordovician. Science. vol. 278, no. 5335, pp. 88-90. In this paper they discussed Abundant fossil meteorites that were found in ...marine, condensed Lower Ordovician limestones... They note: 1. A 4-inch in diameter meteorite discovered middle Ordovician Limestone in 1951, which was described by Thorslund and Wickman (1981). 2. a swedish meteorite , called Osterplana 1, which was discovered in 5-million year older Lower Ordovician limestone about 300 miles away from the above by Hansen and Berstrom (1997). Twelve more meteorites have been found at the Thorsberg Limestone Quarry. Hansen and Berstrom (1997, pp. 3) stated: A 10-foot-thick section of the Holen (Orthoceratite) Limestone, of Early Middle Ordovician age, is extracted at the Thorsberg quarry and sawed into thin slabs that are used for windowsills and floor tile. Quarry workers discarded slabs with impurities, such as the meteorites, until Professor Maurits Lindstrom of the University of Stockholm alerted them to save such slabs. The 12 specimens were recovered between 1992 and 1996. Ten of the specimens were recovered from a 2-foot-thick bed of limestone and may represent a single meteorite fall. The other three specimens were recovered from two separate levels above this layer. Seven of the specimens, collected between 1993 and 1996, are from a quarried limestone volume of no more than about 127,000 cubic feet. Most of the specimens are now on display at the Stiftelsen Paleo Geology Center in Lidkoping, Sweden. The meteorites found in the Thorsberg Quarry meteorites range in size from about 0.5 to 3.5 inches in diameter. They have been almost completely replaced by calcite and barite. The meteorite masses are dark reddish brown and look like iron nodules surrounded by a zone of lighter colored limestone. It would be fun to look at correlative condensed sections, in the United States and elsewhere for similar fossil
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites in limestone
Dear list- I have found a few iron oxide nodules in layers of Cambrien age shale while digging trilobites in Nevada. I didn't think much of it at the time. I'll have to dig them up from the garage and do a nickel test. It's and interesting subject, and there are known meteorites recovered from limestone. I'll try to list specific examples, I know I read about it recently, but cannot recall where I read it right now.The Hoba meteorite was discovered in limestone in 1928, uncertain whether it impacted a limestone strata, or has been there since before it became limestone. The was an immense halo surrounding it. Is it possible given it's size that it's been there for hundreds of million of years? I frequently find nodules of one sort or another on digs, usually mineralization similar to cave pearls. It would make sense since the Earths surface is cover by more than 75% water. I'm sure meteorites landed in coral reefs on a regular basis. Thermal vents could be another possibility. These iron- oxide nodules are quite similar to the Canyon Diablo shale, or the thick shale covering a very rusted Nantan. If anyone has further information, please post it. - Edward Edward R. Hodges IMCA # 4173 www.meteoriteonline.com From: Mark Ferguson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Robert Szep [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: meteoritelist [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites in limestone - Example from Sweden Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:11:55 -0700 Hi Robert Not sure I have close to all the answers, but metal, free metal, in a limestone, can only be from a few select sources. One, the first to mind, is vents such as black smokers. But, here we have high temps, a corrosive environment, and no discoloration of the limestone from other vent chemicals. Not a likely source. Second to mind are some very nasty bacteria which excrete free metals while digesting rock for nutrient, and are a possible source for gold and silver crystals (least thats some peoples thoughts). Next to mind is the free iron found in basalts, not basalt in the limestone, doubtful then that is the source. Iron and nickel, which shows a Widmanstätten pattern, cannot be from any of these sources and is not known from any terrestrial souce to date. Best guess would be a impactor and the metal nuggets are splash ejecta which landed on a reef or in a oolitic environment and got encapsulated as the limestone was buried. Mark - Original Message - From: Robert Szep [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 9:19 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorites in limestone - Example from Sweden Hello Paul and list... I have found IRON NODULES in ~500 million year old limestone and know where to find more. They are rather smooth and not, repeat NOT badly 'rusted'. The limestone surrounding the small pocket left behind after removing the metal-object shows some discoloration but only in very close proximity to where the nodule was. The metal in this limestone is far from abundant but then again I didn't hammer my way through any major amount of host material. At the time I thought the dense, roughly 1/2 inch nuggets might be meteorites but figured the odds were slim. After reading your posting I realized the odds might not be nearly as slim as I originally considered them to be. Here is my question to you and the 'list'... When a small metal object is found in ~500 million year old limestone, what are the chances of that object being a meteorite? Replies to this posting, if any, should be interesting. If the consensis is better than 50/50 I might collect a few specimens this weekend. Best regards, Robert Szep. - Original Message - From: Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 10:40 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Unconventional Meteorite Hunting - Example from Sweden It seems like there are some unconventional places that people can look for meteorites. For example, ancient meteorites have been found in the carbonate rocks of Sweden as discussed in: Schmitz, B. Peucker-Ehrenbrink, Lindstrom, M., and Tassinari, M., 1997, Accretion Rates of Meteorites andCosmic Dust in the Early Ordovician. Science. vol. 278, no. 5335, pp. 88-90. In this paper they discussed Abundant fossil meteorites that were found in ...marine, condensed Lower Ordovician limestones... They note: 1. A 4-inch in diameter meteorite discovered middle Ordovician Limestone in 1951, which was described by Thorslund and Wickman (1981). 2. a swedish meteorite , called Osterplana 1, which was discovered in 5-million year older Lower Ordovician limestone about 300 miles away from the above by Hansen and Berstrom (1997). Twelve more meteorites have been found at the Thorsberg Limestone Quarry. Hansen and Berstrom (1997, pp. 3) stated: A 10-foot-thick section of the Holen (Orthoceratite) Limestone, of Early Middle
RE: [meteorite-list] Meteorites in limestone
I found some iron oxide nodules, or 'spheres' in limestone in the Caribbean. At a certain layer in coastal cliffs of limestone strata that looked different (darker, coarser material with an underlying whitish substance, there were iron nodules embedded in the limestone. You could see them exposed in the layer with a frequency of 1 or 2 every 10 feet or so. I dug them out, along with some of the surrounding material. The spheres broke in 2 pieces trying to pry them out, and they are heavy, with a crystalline appearance, as if they went through some kind of metamorphosis. I do not know the age of the strata, but there are Jurassic and Cretaceous outcrops in those areas. I have never had them analyzed. CharlyV. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Edward Hodges Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 3:04 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites in limestone Dear list- I have found a few iron oxide nodules in layers of Cambrien age shale while digging trilobites in Nevada. I didn't think much of it at the time. I'll have to dig them up from the garage and do a nickel test. It's and interesting subject, and there are known meteorites recovered from limestone. I'll try to list specific examples, I know I read about it recently, but cannot recall where I read it right now.The Hoba meteorite was discovered in limestone in 1928, uncertain whether it impacted a limestone strata, or has been there since before it became limestone. The was an immense halo surrounding it. Is it possible given it's size that it's been there for hundreds of million of years? I frequently find nodules of one sort or another on digs, usually mineralization similar to cave pearls. It would make sense since the Earths surface is cover by more than 75% water. I'm sure meteorites landed in coral reefs on a regular basis. Thermal vents could be another possibility. These iron- oxide nodules are quite similar to the Canyon Diablo shale, or the thick shale covering a very rusted Nantan. If anyone has further information, please post it. - Edward Edward R. Hodges IMCA # 4173 www.meteoriteonline.com From: Mark Ferguson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Robert Szep [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: meteoritelist [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites in limestone - Example from Sweden Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:11:55 -0700 Hi Robert Not sure I have close to all the answers, but metal, free metal, in a limestone, can only be from a few select sources. One, the first to mind, is vents such as black smokers. But, here we have high temps, a corrosive environment, and no discoloration of the limestone from other vent chemicals. Not a likely source. Second to mind are some very nasty bacteria which excrete free metals while digesting rock for nutrient, and are a possible source for gold and silver crystals (least thats some peoples thoughts). Next to mind is the free iron found in basalts, not basalt in the limestone, doubtful then that is the source. Iron and nickel, which shows a Widmanstätten pattern, cannot be from any of these sources and is not known from any terrestrial souce to date. Best guess would be a impactor and the metal nuggets are splash ejecta which landed on a reef or in a oolitic environment and got encapsulated as the limestone was buried. Mark - Original Message - From: Robert Szep [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 9:19 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorites in limestone - Example from Sweden Hello Paul and list... I have found IRON NODULES in ~500 million year old limestone and know where to find more. They are rather smooth and not, repeat NOT badly 'rusted'. The limestone surrounding the small pocket left behind after removing the metal-object shows some discoloration but only in very close proximity to where the nodule was. The metal in this limestone is far from abundant but then again I didn't hammer my way through any major amount of host material. At the time I thought the dense, roughly 1/2 inch nuggets might be meteorites but figured the odds were slim. After reading your posting I realized the odds might not be nearly as slim as I originally considered them to be. Here is my question to you and the 'list'... When a small metal object is found in ~500 million year old limestone, what are the chances of that object being a meteorite? Replies to this posting, if any, should be interesting. If the consensis is better than 50/50 I might collect a few specimens this weekend. Best regards, Robert Szep. - Original Message - From: Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 10:40 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Unconventional Meteorite Hunting - Example from Sweden It seems like there are some unconventional places that people can look for meteorites. For
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites in limestone
Hi, there were found 55 fossile meteorites in limestone in five different quarries in South Sweden, more than 40 of them in the Thorsberg quarry in Kinnekulle. The quarries a distributed in an area of 300 miles and the layers in that limstone formed in a span of 2 million years 480 million years ago, so that the meteorites don't stem from a single event, but surprisingly they are all of the same type. L-chondrites. They are quite well preserved, I have a picture here and chondrules are easily visible. See a report here: http://www.rice.edu/projects/reno/Newsrel/2003/20030508_meteorite.shtml Martin __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Fw: [meteorite-list] Meteorites in limestone
Hmmm... Judging by the responses to this topic, Meteorites in Limestone, roundish metallic things found in limestone and other sedimentary rock is not extremely uncommon but worthy of further investigation. Especially when found in layers or deposits corresponding with certain known time periods. Yes, a simple nickel-test would obviously be a good first step to take in determining what some of our tiny discoveries may or may not be. A test for the presence of Iridium would be the next logical step but that is not as easily accomplished. In anycase, I should point out that the metal nodules I referred to finding are not concretions. I've seen them and owned them from up around here, from the East coast, and from various U.S. arid regions. I stumbled upon the material in question while doing some casual fossil hunting. Yes, there were a couple of small fossil clams in the out-crop I was chipping-away-at and no they were not Pyritized... No other known non-man-made-metal anywhere in any direction for atleast 75 miles. The area I refer to is also a very similar geologic setting to the area in which the meteorites in limestone were found in, in Sweeden. What I considered to be the real eye-opening statistics regarding the Sweedish findings was the the number of real, genuine meteorites recovered from a very low number of cubic feet of limestone-host-rock. It would have been dilligent of the researchers to mention the number of meteor-wrongs that turned-up in that same volume of host-rock. I too do not get excited about finding iron-nodules, meteorites on the other hand... different story. Robert Szep. - Original Message - From: Charles R. Viau [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Edward Hodges' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 3:20 AM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Meteorites in limestone I found some iron oxide nodules, or 'spheres' in limestone in the Caribbean. At a certain layer in coastal cliffs of limestone strata that looked different (darker, coarser material with an underlying whitish substance, there were iron nodules embedded in the limestone. You could see them exposed in the layer with a frequency of 1 or 2 every 10 feet or so. I dug them out, along with some of the surrounding material. The spheres broke in 2 pieces trying to pry them out, and they are heavy, with a crystalline appearance, as if they went through some kind of metamorphosis. I do not know the age of the strata, but there are Jurassic and Cretaceous outcrops in those areas. I have never had them analyzed. CharlyV. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Edward Hodges Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 3:04 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites in limestone Dear list- I have found a few iron oxide nodules in layers of Cambrien age shale while digging trilobites in Nevada. I didn't think much of it at the time. I'll have to dig them up from the garage and do a nickel test. It's and interesting subject, and there are known meteorites recovered from limestone. I'll try to list specific examples, I know I read about it recently, but cannot recall where I read it right now.The Hoba meteorite was discovered in limestone in 1928, uncertain whether it impacted a limestone strata, or has been there since before it became limestone. The was an immense halo surrounding it. Is it possible given it's size that it's been there for hundreds of million of years? I frequently find nodules of one sort or another on digs, usually mineralization similar to cave pearls. It would make sense since the Earths surface is cover by more than 75% water. I'm sure meteorites landed in coral reefs on a regular basis. Thermal vents could be another possibility. These iron- oxide nodules are quite similar to the Canyon Diablo shale, or the thick shale covering a very rusted Nantan. If anyone has further information, please post it. - Edward Edward R. Hodges IMCA # 4173 www.meteoriteonline.com From: Mark Ferguson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Robert Szep [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: meteoritelist [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites in limestone - Example from Sweden Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:11:55 -0700 Hi Robert Not sure I have close to all the answers, but metal, free metal, in a limestone, can only be from a few select sources. One, the first to mind, is vents such as black smokers. But, here we have high temps, a corrosive environment, and no discoloration of the limestone from other vent chemicals. Not a likely source. Second to mind are some very nasty bacteria which excrete free metals while digesting rock for nutrient, and are a possible source for gold and silver crystals (least thats some peoples thoughts). Next to mind is the free iron found in basalts, not basalt in the limestone, doubtful then that is the source. Iron and nickel, which shows a
[meteorite-list] re: daylight fireball over Wales pictures
It looks real, but then the front end of the fireball looks fake That was also my first initial reaction, untill I also looked at the second picture and thought it all over and slightly changed my mind. As both Rob McNaught and me have pointed out on the meteorobs mailing list, the first picture does not show the actual fireball, but might show sunlight reflecting on the dust trail left in the bolide wake (and in this sense the subscript on the NASA website is incorrect). Indeed, if it IS a bolide which caused this. One of the meteorobs subscribers discovered that there is still info from the camera header preserved in the picture, which suggests the picture were taken with a few minutes time inbetween on September 24th, around 18:13 UTC. If this date is correct, a satellite or rocket debris decay is not likely. I checked but the NASA OIG server lists only one decay for the period Sep 23-27, and that was on the previous day, on Sep 23. It concerned a very small piece of debris from a Thor Agena rocket, NORAD # 05226 (1970-025KH). For security I also checked with the latest orbit for this object but even if it had survived untill sep 24th it would not have passed over this part of Europe around the time of this picture being taken. It would anyway have been too small to cause something of this magnitude. - Marco -- Marco Langbroek [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.wanadoo.nl/marco.langbroek What seest thou else In the dark backward and abysm of time? William Shakespeare The Tempest act I scene 2 -- __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Fw: on daytime fireball photographed in Wales, UK
Hello, This (below) is what Neil Bone, director of the meteor section of the British Astr. Assoc. just wrote on IMO-news. - Marco - Original Message - From: Neil Bone [EMAIL PROTECTED] Does anyone have more data on this daylight fireball? On the above website, the date isn't even listed :-( No reports of a recent daytime fireball have been received by the BAA. I have to say that, a superficial resemblance to paintings of the Sikhote-Alin event apart, the pictures look more, to me, like an aircraft contrail illuminated by the setting Sun... Neil Bone Director, BAA Meteor Section __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Fw: on daytime fireball photographed in Wales, UK
Right away, I compared the fireball pic with the S-A painting right away to see if it might have been used as a template. I found almost no similarities between the two. I also looked at the pixels of the fireball for any obvious artifacts, deliberate dithering, aliasing, etc. and found none. But I'm sure before it wound up on APID, others who know vastly more than I about digital imaging would have dug around the pixel porridge as well. Cheers, Martin (kind of unnerving to have two vocal Martins on the list. I'm the one without the exclamation point following my cheers) - Original Message - From: Marco Langbroek [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, October 2, 2003 4:22 am Subject: [meteorite-list] Fw: on daytime fireball photographed in Wales, UK Hello, This (below) is what Neil Bone, director of the meteor section of the British Astr. Assoc. just wrote on IMO-news. - Marco - Original Message - From: Neil Bone [EMAIL PROTECTED] entral.susx.ac.uk Does anyone have more data on this daylight fireball? On the above website, the date isn't even listed :-( No reports of a recent daytime fireball have been received by the BAA. I have to say that, a superficial resemblance to paintings of the Sikhote-Alin event apart, the pictures look more, to me, like an aircraft contrail illuminated by the setting Sun... Neil Bone Director, BAA Meteor Section __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] pf update
Hi list.Just an update on our PF tour.Bob and I will be down there tomorrow the 3rd instead of the 4th.So come down and join us if you can.I will have my cell phone on, 1-847-804-8810.Feel free to call if you like.I hope to see more people down there. steve arnold, chicago = Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120 I. M. C. A. MEMBER #6728 Illinois Meteorites website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/illinoismeteorites/ __ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites in limestone (or in sandstone, 120 pcs in Finland?????)
Hi Pekka and the list, the fossile meteorites of Kinnekulle are very macroscopic. I couldn't find a picture in the web, so I scanned a photo from a magazine. (SterneWeltraum, 8/2003, p.15) The meteorite there is about 8cm x 6cm / 3.15 x 2.36 and is looking like, well, just as a an ordinary chondrite has to look like. I have no place to put it online, so if somebody interested in the picture I will mail it off list. Martin (from now on Martin A. to avoid confusion). - Original Message - From: Pekka Savolainen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 3:24 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites in limestone (or in sandstone, 120 pcs in Finland?) Hello, Martin and the list, we have also some fossile ???micro-meteorites??? found in Finland in sandstone, in Koylio, some 1,4 Ga old ??? These was found in 1960, then confimed as meteorites by Geological Survey of Finland and Munster university in 1998. Some ???120 micrometeorites??? was found. Anyway, when more material was collected, no meteorites was found at all. So in fact at the moment nobody knows, where those 120 ??? micrometeorites??? came from, so it´s possible, these Koylio ???micrometeorites??? don´t exist at all. They were discretidet later in 1990´s. Jarmo Moilanen has a more spesific story on his site; http://www.netppl.fi/~jarmom/geo/met/mkoyli_e.htm I have tried to find a clear difference between a micrometeorites and meteorites, so if somebody has it, please, let me know. There are several very, very small ones listed in cataloque, but the real micrometeorites is a different thing anyway, so the clear description with a micrometeorite would be more than welcome. take care, pekka s __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] About the swedish fossile-meteorites (from the news-group archives 1997)
Some older (1997) from the news-groups.
pekka s
From:
Keith Littleton
([EMAIL PROTECTED]
)
Subject: Re: News; 17 fossil meteorites in Sweden
Newsgroups:
talk.origins
Date: 1997/10/11
In Message-Id: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Just heard on the news that a researchteam from the
university of Gvteborg found 17 meteorites buried
480 million years ago at kinekulle in Sweden.
It was mentioned at the newsprogram "Dagens Eko"
by Birger Schmitz from the researchteam.
Apparently people have been finding all sorts of
meteorites in Ordovician limestones of Sweden.
For example, in the October 3, 1997 issue of
of "Science," there is:
Schmitz, B. Peucker-Ehrenbrink, Lindstrom, M.,
and Tassinari, M. (1997) Accretion Rates of Meteorites
andCosmic Dust in the Early Ordovician. Science
volume 278, number 5335, pp. 88-90.
The abstract begins, "Abundant fossil meteorites in
marine, conde
nsed Lower Ordovician limestones..."
Other instances of fossil meteorites are discussed in
Hansen and Berstrom (1997). They note that the first of
the specimens was a 4-inch in diameter meteorite discovered
middle Ordovician Limestone in 1951. It was not
described until 1981 by Thorslund and Wickman (1981).
In 1988, another swedish meteorite, called "Osterplana 1,"
was discovered in Lower Ordovician Limestone about
5 million years older and 300 miles away from the first
(Hansen and Berstrom 1997, pp. 1).
Twelve more meteorites have been found at the Thorsberg
Limestone Quarry. Hansen and Berstrom (1997, pp. 3) state:
"A 10-foot-thick section of the Holen ("Orthoceratite")
Limestone, of Early Middle Ordovician age, is extracted
at the Thorsberg quarry and sawed into thin slabs that
are used for windowsills and floor tile. Quarry workers
discarded slabs with impurities, such as the meteorites,
until Professor Maurits Lindstrom of the University of
S
tockholm alerted them to save such slabs. The 12
specimens were recovered between 1992 and 1996. Ten of
the specimens were recovered from a 2-foot-thick bed of
limestone and may represent a single meteorite fall. The
other three specimens were recovered from two separate
levels above this layer. Seven of the specimens, collected
between 1993 ant 1996, are from a quarried limestone
volume of no more than about 127,000 cubic feet. Most
of the specimens are now on display at the Stiftelsen Paleo
Geology Center in Lidkoping, Sweden.
The Thorsberg quarry meteorites range in size from about
0.5 to 3.5 inches in diameter and have been almost
completely replaced (pseudomorphosed) by calcite and
barite. The dark, reddish brown meteorite masses look
like iron nodules surrounded by a zone of lighter colored
limestone and would be mistaken by many people for
common sedimentary features. However, they contain
grains of ch
romite and have a high iridium content,
among other confirming characteristics of extraterrestrial
origin."
Reference Cited
Hasen, M. C., and Bergstrom, S. M.. 1997, Ancient
meteorites. Ohio Geology, Spring 1997.
Further Readings from Hansen and Berstrom (1997) about
the Swedish meteorites.
Nystrom, J. O., and Wickman, F. E. (1991) The Ordovician
chondrite from Brunflo, central Sweden; II, Secondary
minerals. Lithos. volume 27, number 3, pp. 167-185.
Nystrom, J. O., Lindstrom, M., and Wickman, F. E.,
(1988) Discovery of a second Ordovician meteorite
using chromite as a tracer. Nature. volume 336,
pp. 572-574.
Schmitz, B., Lindstrom, M., Asaro, F., and Tassinari, M.,
(1996) Geochemistry of meteorite-rich marine limestone
strata and fossil meteorites from the Lower Ordovician
at Kinnekulle, Sweden. Earth and Planetary Science
Letters. volume 145, pp. 31-48.
Thorslund, Per, and Wickman, F. E. (1981) Midd
le
Ordovician chondrite in fossiliferous limestone from
Brunflo, central Sweden. Nature. volume 289,
pp. 285-286.
Thorslund, Per., Wickman, F. E., and Nystrom, J. O.
(1984) The Ordovician chondrite from Brunflo, central
Sweden, I. General description and primary minerals.
Lithos. volume 17, pp. 87-100.
++ Many Other Meteorites ++
For many more cases of meteorites, see,
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/dave_matson/
And go to "Library: Modern Documents: Dave Matson: Young
Earth: Specific Arguments: Meteor" at:
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/dave_matson/young-earth
/specific_arguments/meteor.html
Dave Matson at the above URL wrote:
"After reviewing such difficulties, geologist Davis
Young (1988, p.127) tells us that, 'The chances of
finding a fossil meteorite in sed
imentary rocks are
remote. It is not to be expected.' G. J. McCall, in
Meteorites and Their Origins (1973, p.270), said, 'The
lack of fossil record of true meteorites is puzzling, but
can
[meteorite-list] Meteor Humor
Hi All! I need your help once again! I am in the process of collecting jokes, comic strips, etc. regarding meteors, meteorites, comets, and space in general. I am wanting to use these materials in presentations and workshops. If you know of any, would you please send them to me or tell me where I can find them. Thanks once again! I appreciate your help! Teresa -- Teresa Moss Director, Monnig Meteorite Gallery Texas Christian University Box 298830 Fort Worth, Texas 76129 Phone: 817-257-MARS (6277) FAX: 817-257-7789 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Millions Of Pennies From Heaven
http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/index.ssf?/base/news-0/10651051640.xml Millions of pennies from heaven Meteorite may bring out-of-world payday By Mark Schleifstein nola.com (Louisiana) October 2, 2003 The ugly chunk of tan rock that crashed through the Uptown home of Roy Fausset on Sept. 23 was an astronomical event in more ways than one. No sooner had Tulane University geologist Stephen Nelson declared the rock a meteorite than offers began pouring in to buy pieces of it at sky-high prices: $25,000 to $50,000 a chunk. Scientists, though less readily able to bring such large sums of money to bear, also want to study pieces of the rock to look for clues about the beginning of the universe some 4.6 billion years ago. Among collectors, however, a much younger rock would be worth more. If examination determines it's a mere 200 million years old and contains a specific mix of minerals and chemicals, the meteorite may have originated from Mars, said Tracy Gregg, a geology professor at the State University of New York-Buffalo and chair of the Geological Society of America's planetary geology division. The worth of a meteorite is like any other precious stone, Gregg said. It's related to scarcity, and the ones worth the most are those that came from Mars. The going rate for a Mars rock? $1,500 per gram. Fausset's weighs well over a pound, or more than 450 grams. At that rate, a troy ounce of a Mars meteorite would be worth $46,500, or about 120 times the price of pure gold at Wednesday's prices on the commodities exchange. Even if not from Mars, the pieces could be worth a small fortune, collectors say. That's why Fausset's find has been moved into a secure storage facility, he said. The idea that a rock could be that valuable got him thinking about security quickly. But whether it came from Mars or dates back to the beginning of our solar system, it's a fascinating piece of rock that tells an incredible story, Gregg said. Trade in meteorite chunks has skyrocketed in recent years, in part thanks to the Internet, said Matt Morgan, a full-time geologist with the Colorado Geological Survey and a part-time trader. On his Mile High Meteorites Web site, Morgan is offering tiny pieces of his varied collection for thousands of dollars. For instance, a 2.294-gram fragment of a meteorite found in Buenos Aires, Argentina, in 1979 sells for $11,470. I always wanted a piece of a meteorite, even when I was a child, Morgan said. Robert Wesel of Hillsboro, Ore., got hooked after buying a meteorite fragment at the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry. At the time, I had no idea that people could own such a thing, said Wesel, a registered nurse. Then he went to a gem show and discovered a kiosk selling meteorites. I think I spent about $4,000 with that guy on the spot, and that's what really launched it, he said. I walked away with a price list . . . and later bought more pieces. Then I got a computer, and in 1998 I found eBay. Word of meteorite finds travels quickly among dealers, he said. You need to keep an ear to the ground, and if you hear something, you try to ally yourself with someone in the area or go there yourself, he said. In March, he heard about a meteorite strike in a Chicago suburb and, learning that pieces of the meteorite were strewn through a large neighborhood, drove there to scavenge. Everybody who collects does it for a different reason, he said. Some collect on a map, one sample from every country. Others are trying to get an A-to-Z collection of different types of meteorites. Often, pieces of meteorites end up in museum collections, despite their inability to match the prices paid by private collectors, said Denton Ebel, a curator with the new Arthur Ross Hall of Meteorites at the American Museum of Natural History in New York City. The museum has more than 120 meteorites on display, and more than 1,250 in its collection. Samples in the collection are carefully analyzed to ensure they are meteorites and to attempt to determine their origin. A 30-micron-thick slice, as thin as a human hair, is cut off a sample and viewed through a scanning electron microscope to determine the texture of the rock crystals. Then it's examined with other instruments to find out its chemical composition. On the outside of most meteorites is a thin layer of black material known as a fusion crust. It's essentially glass, Ebel said, the result of the outer layer of the rock melting as it enters Earth's atmosphere. On rare occasions, eyewitnesses can provide enough evidence to determine a meteorite's probable track through space. Seven or eight meteorite falls on Earth have been witnessed and photographed in such a way that their orbits could be traced backward, and they tend to come from the asteroid belt, he said, referring to the band of rocks circling the sun in the wide space between Mars and Jupiter. Jupiter's gravity is so intense that it ejects some of
Re: [meteorite-list] Millions Of Pennies From Heaven
Here we go, the billion dollar meteorite has appeared. This meteorite is a chondrite, not a mars rock, nothing more. Great stone, not worth millions much less $100,000. It looks like Park Forest all over again. I spoke to the owner just now and have arranged a specimen to be classified. He is going to Europe and will not discuss sale until the specimen is classified in a month or two. So at least we all have time to relax before the feeding frenzy starts in earnest. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: Ron Baalke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 11:03 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Millions Of Pennies From Heaven http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/index.ssf?/base/news-0/10651051640.xml Millions of pennies from heaven Meteorite may bring out-of-world payday By Mark Schleifstein nola.com (Louisiana) October 2, 2003 The ugly chunk of tan rock that crashed through the Uptown home of Roy Fausset on Sept. 23 was an astronomical event in more ways than one. No sooner had Tulane University geologist Stephen Nelson declared the rock a meteorite than offers began pouring in to buy pieces of it at sky-high prices: $25,000 to $50,000 a chunk. Scientists, though less readily able to bring such large sums of money to bear, also want to study pieces of the rock to look for clues about the beginning of the universe some 4.6 billion years ago. Among collectors, however, a much younger rock would be worth more. If examination determines it's a mere 200 million years old and contains a specific mix of minerals and chemicals, the meteorite may have originated from Mars, said Tracy Gregg, a geology professor at the State University of New York-Buffalo and chair of the Geological Society of America's planetary geology division. The worth of a meteorite is like any other precious stone, Gregg said. It's related to scarcity, and the ones worth the most are those that came from Mars. The going rate for a Mars rock? $1,500 per gram. Fausset's weighs well over a pound, or more than 450 grams. At that rate, a troy ounce of a Mars meteorite would be worth $46,500, or about 120 times the price of pure gold at Wednesday's prices on the commodities exchange. Even if not from Mars, the pieces could be worth a small fortune, collectors say. That's why Fausset's find has been moved into a secure storage facility, he said. The idea that a rock could be that valuable got him thinking about security quickly. But whether it came from Mars or dates back to the beginning of our solar system, it's a fascinating piece of rock that tells an incredible story, Gregg said. Trade in meteorite chunks has skyrocketed in recent years, in part thanks to the Internet, said Matt Morgan, a full-time geologist with the Colorado Geological Survey and a part-time trader. On his Mile High Meteorites Web site, Morgan is offering tiny pieces of his varied collection for thousands of dollars. For instance, a 2.294-gram fragment of a meteorite found in Buenos Aires, Argentina, in 1979 sells for $11,470. I always wanted a piece of a meteorite, even when I was a child, Morgan said. Robert Wesel of Hillsboro, Ore., got hooked after buying a meteorite fragment at the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry. At the time, I had no idea that people could own such a thing, said Wesel, a registered nurse. Then he went to a gem show and discovered a kiosk selling meteorites. I think I spent about $4,000 with that guy on the spot, and that's what really launched it, he said. I walked away with a price list . . . and later bought more pieces. Then I got a computer, and in 1998 I found eBay. Word of meteorite finds travels quickly among dealers, he said. You need to keep an ear to the ground, and if you hear something, you try to ally yourself with someone in the area or go there yourself, he said. In March, he heard about a meteorite strike in a Chicago suburb and, learning that pieces of the meteorite were strewn through a large neighborhood, drove there to scavenge. Everybody who collects does it for a different reason, he said. Some collect on a map, one sample from every country. Others are trying to get an A-to-Z collection of different types of meteorites. Often, pieces of meteorites end up in museum collections, despite their inability to match the prices paid by private collectors, said Denton Ebel, a curator with the new Arthur Ross Hall of Meteorites at the American Museum of Natural History in New York City. The museum has more than 120 meteorites on display, and more than 1,250 in its collection. Samples in the collection are carefully analyzed to ensure they are meteorites and to attempt to determine their origin. A 30-micron-thick slice, as thin as a human hair, is cut off a sample and viewed through a scanning electron microscope to determine the texture of the rock crystals. Then it's examined
[meteorite-list] new ebay auctions
Hi Everybody! I have listed some new ebay auctions today. I will be adding some more tomorrow. Have fun with them. Here is the link: http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/meteoriten/ Best Regards Moritz Karl Gutzkowstr. 77 60594 Frankfurt Germany www.m3t3orites.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] IMCA #0818
[meteorite-list] asteroid/meteor/meteorite cartoons - a couple links
Hi Teresa, A search of Google provides a few asteroid/meteor cartoons: http://www.science.uwaterloo.ca/earth/waton/f9912.html http://www.cartoonstock.com/directory/m/meteor.asp --Rob __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites in limestone (or in sandstone, 120 pcs in Finland?????)
Hello, Martin and the list, we have also some fossile ???micro-meteorites??? found in Finland in sandstone, in Koylio, some 1,4 Ga old ??? These was found in 1960, then confimed as meteorites by Geological Survey of Finland and Munster university in 1998. Some ???120 micrometeorites??? was found. Anyway, when more material was collected, no meteorites was found at all. So in fact at the moment nobody knows, where those 120 ??? micrometeorites??? came from, so it´s possible, these Koylio ???micrometeorites??? don´t exist at all. They were discretidet later in 1990´s. Jarmo Moilanen has a more spesific story on his site; http://www.netppl.fi/~jarmom/geo/met/mkoyli_e.htm I have tried to find a clear difference between a micrometeorites and meteorites, so if somebody has it, please, let me know. There are several very, very small ones listed in cataloque, but the real micrometeorites is a different thing anyway, so the clear description with a micrometeorite would be more than welcome. take care, pekka s Martin Altmann wrote: Hi, there were found 55 fossile meteorites in limestone in five different quarries in South Sweden, more than 40 of them in the Thorsberg quarry in Kinnekulle. The quarries a distributed in an area of 300 miles and the layers in that limstone formed in a span of 2 million years 480 million years ago, so that the meteorites don't stem from a single event, but surprisingly they are all of the same type. L-chondrites. They are quite well preserved, I have a picture here and chondrules are easily visible. See a report here: http://www.rice.edu/projects/reno/Newsrel/2003/20030508_meteorite.shtml Martin __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Pekka Savolainen Jokiharjuntie 4 FIN-71330 Rasala FINLAND + 358 400 818 912 Group Home Page: http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/eurocoin Group Email Address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Indian Meteorite- anyone going-Travel WARNING for the area.
Hi Dave and all, I can personally vouch for Atul's sincerity and kindness and just wanting to help anyone wanting to go over there and hunt. It never hurts to have contacts and I know that Atul's only motivation was and is for peoples safety as well as getting them to the fall more effectively. Every country has it protocols and customs (drinking goat milk or was that eating goat meat, was it goat meat?? :-) and it is a good idea to know them if you go there. Better to have friends helping you out than have something bad happen trying to track meteorites down. It can sometimes be dangerous. Atul is a collector/aficionado and has bought some nice specimens from me and educates with them. I know the Calumet Astronomical Society thinks highly of him as well. I agree Dave that if the hunters planned to go they would have had the tickets bought but it still wouldn't be too late to contact Atul and let him help you out. Many of the hunters check the mailing list from remote sites. All my best! --AL __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] eBAy ad - delete if necessary
Hullo, Again, another eBay ad - sorry it so non-contributary to the list... but here we go again - a micro of rare stuff for those who collect micros! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemcategory=3239item=2194937615 Thanks for your patience dave IMCA #0092 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites in limestone (or in sandstone, 120 pcs in Finland?????)
Hello, Martin A. and the list. and thank you for the pic, Martin A. Well, these are really not micrometeorites. I put the pic on the net; http://www.dlc.fi/~nuuska/kinnekulle.jpg just to save time and trouble from Martin, hope this is ok. If not, Martin, please, let me know, and I´ll remove the pic. I thik, this is a beaty worth to share. I also aggree with Bjorn, these should be listed as a real find in the cataloque. take care, pekka s Martin Altmann wrote: Hi Pekka and the list, the fossile meteorites of Kinnekulle are very macroscopic. I couldn't find a picture in the web, so I scanned a photo from a magazine. (SterneWeltraum, 8/2003, p.15) The meteorite there is about 8cm x 6cm / 3.15 x 2.36 and is looking like, well, just as a an ordinary chondrite has to look like. I have no place to put it online, so if somebody interested in the picture I will mail it off list. Martin (from now on Martin A. to avoid confusion). - Original Message - From: Pekka Savolainen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 3:24 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites in limestone (or in sandstone, 120 pcs in Finland?) Hello, Martin and the list, we have also some fossile ???micro-meteorites??? found in Finland in sandstone, in Koylio, some 1,4 Ga old ??? These was found in 1960, then confimed as meteorites by Geological Survey of Finland and Munster university in 1998. Some ???120 micrometeorites??? was found. Anyway, when more material was collected, no meteorites was found at all. So in fact at the moment nobody knows, where those 120 ??? micrometeorites??? came from, so it´s possible, these Koylio ???micrometeorites??? don´t exist at all. They were discretidet later in 1990´s. Jarmo Moilanen has a more spesific story on his site; http://www.netppl.fi/~jarmom/geo/met/mkoyli_e.htm I have tried to find a clear difference between a micrometeorites and meteorites, so if somebody has it, please, let me know. There are several very, very small ones listed in cataloque, but the real micrometeorites is a different thing anyway, so the clear description with a micrometeorite would be more than welcome. take care, pekka s __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Pekka Savolainen Jokiharjuntie 4 FIN-71330 Rasala FINLAND + 358 400 818 912 Group Home Page: http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/eurocoin Group Email Address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Large Meteorite Found In Sweden
Hello, Bjorn and the list, well, I usually use the cataloque as a base. Just tried to get some sense to the quantities of the swedish meteorites published in the swedsih and international press. Suppose, the data was given by the swedish NHM. I gladly aggree with Mrs Grady and the cataloque, except what comes to Marjalahti. It´s not a russian one.It felt to the Grand Duchy of Finland, to the area, which 1917 became a part of independent Finland. Also the finder and the witness of the fall was pure finn, Mr Koppinen. After 2 wars the USSR had the area, but not the meteorite, so it´s a finnish one...;- http://www.netppl.fi/~jarmom/geo/met/mmarja_e.htm take care. pekka s Bjørn Sørheim wrote: Pekka The List, I think we must use Monica Grady et. al. and the recent 'Catalogue of Meteorites' as the definite authority of what constitute a meteorite fall/find or not... -- Pekka Savolainen Jokiharjuntie 4 FIN-71330 Rasala FINLAND + 358 400 818 912 Group Home Page: http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/eurocoin Group Email Address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Millions Of Pennies From Heaven
Maybe all of the hoopla will motivate him to put on a wet suit and a mask and dig up the rest that is, as you say sitting in sewage water. Steve Schoner (Such pieces could be sold at latrine low prices, compared to the others that are not so crappy) --- Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here we go, the billion dollar meteorite has appeared. This meteorite is a chondrite, not a mars rock, nothing more. Great stone, not worth millions much less $100,000. It looks like Park Forest all over again. I spoke to the owner just now and have arranged a specimen to be classified. He is going to Europe and will not discuss sale until the specimen is classified in a month or two. So at least we all have time to relax before the feeding frenzy starts in earnest. Mike Farmer - Original Message - From: Ron Baalke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 11:03 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Millions Of Pennies From Heaven http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/index.ssf?/base/news-0/10651051640.xml Millions of pennies from heaven Meteorite may bring out-of-world payday By Mark Schleifstein nola.com (Louisiana) October 2, 2003 The ugly chunk of tan rock that crashed through the Uptown home of Roy Fausset on Sept. 23 was an astronomical event in more ways than one. No sooner had Tulane University geologist Stephen Nelson declared the rock a meteorite than offers began pouring in to buy pieces of it at sky-high prices: $25,000 to $50,000 a chunk. Scientists, though less readily able to bring such large sums of money to bear, also want to study pieces of the rock to look for clues about the beginning of the universe some 4.6 billion years ago. Among collectors, however, a much younger rock would be worth more. If examination determines it's a mere 200 million years old and contains a specific mix of minerals and chemicals, the meteorite may have originated from Mars, said Tracy Gregg, a geology professor at the State University of New York-Buffalo and chair of the Geological Society of America's planetary geology division. The worth of a meteorite is like any other precious stone, Gregg said. It's related to scarcity, and the ones worth the most are those that came from Mars. The going rate for a Mars rock? $1,500 per gram. Fausset's weighs well over a pound, or more than 450 grams. At that rate, a troy ounce of a Mars meteorite would be worth $46,500, or about 120 times the price of pure gold at Wednesday's prices on the commodities exchange. Even if not from Mars, the pieces could be worth a small fortune, collectors say. That's why Fausset's find has been moved into a secure storage facility, he said. The idea that a rock could be that valuable got him thinking about security quickly. But whether it came from Mars or dates back to the beginning of our solar system, it's a fascinating piece of rock that tells an incredible story, Gregg said. Trade in meteorite chunks has skyrocketed in recent years, in part thanks to the Internet, said Matt Morgan, a full-time geologist with the Colorado Geological Survey and a part-time trader. On his Mile High Meteorites Web site, Morgan is offering tiny pieces of his varied collection for thousands of dollars. For instance, a 2.294-gram fragment of a meteorite found in Buenos Aires, Argentina, in 1979 sells for $11,470. I always wanted a piece of a meteorite, even when I was a child, Morgan said. Robert Wesel of Hillsboro, Ore., got hooked after buying a meteorite fragment at the Oregon Museum of Science and Industry. At the time, I had no idea that people could own such a thing, said Wesel, a registered nurse. Then he went to a gem show and discovered a kiosk selling meteorites. I think I spent about $4,000 with that guy on the spot, and that's what really launched it, he said. I walked away with a price list . . . and later bought more pieces. Then I got a computer, and in 1998 I found eBay. Word of meteorite finds travels quickly among dealers, he said. You need to keep an ear to the ground, and if you hear something, you try to ally yourself with someone in the area or go there yourself, he said. In March, he heard about a meteorite strike in a Chicago suburb and, learning that pieces of the meteorite were strewn through a large neighborhood, drove there to scavenge. Everybody who collects does it for a different reason, he said. Some collect on a map, one sample from every country. Others are trying to get an A-to-Z collection of different types of meteorites. Often, pieces of meteorites end up in museum collections, despite their inability to match the prices paid by private collectors, said Denton Ebel, a curator with the new Arthur Ross Hall
[meteorite-list] Closest Asteroid Yet Flies Past Earth (Asteroid 2003 SQ222)
This object is listed on our Earth Close Approach Tables: http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/neo/close.html 2003 SQ222 passed by the Earth at 0.2 lunar distances. It is only about 3 to 6 meters in diameter. Ron Baalke -- http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns4228 Closest asteroid yet flies past Earth Jeff Hecht New Scientist October 2, 2003 An asteroid about the size of a small house passed just 88,000 kilometres from the Earth by on Saturday 27 September - the closest approach of a natural object ever recorded. Geostationary communication satellites circle the Earth 42,000km from the planet's centre. The asteroid, designated 2003 SQ222, came from inside the Earth's orbit and so was only spotted after it had whizzed by. The first sighting was on Sunday 28 by the Lowell Observatory Near-Earth Object Search program in Arizona, US. Amateur astronomer Peter Birtwhistle of Great Shefford, Berkshire, UK, then photographed it on Monday 29. This provided data that helped Brian Marsden, of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics, to calculate its orbit. The asteroid's 1.85-year orbit is quite eccentric, indicating it cannot be a man-made object, Marsden says. He estimates the asteroid measured less than 10 metres. This is too small to have posed a danger to Earth, although it would have made a spectacular The passage came at about 2300 GMT, only 10 hours after a bright fireball streaked over the Orissa region of India. Indian villagers have found pieces of the meteorite, which reportedly cause two house fires. However, this event was not connected to the fly past of 2003 SQ222, says Marsden. The previous record for closest approach of an asteroid - 108,000km measured from the centre of the Earth - was set in 1994 by another 10m object named 1994 XM1. But the third-closest approach - at 120,000km - was object 2002 MN, which was about 80m in diameter. If on target, that could have exploded in the Earth's lower atmosphere and devastated a couple of thousand square kilometres on the ground. Another small asteroid, 2003 SW130, missed the Earth by 160,000km on 19 September, making it a busy month for asteroid watchers. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Did Comets Make Life On Earth Possible?
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/10/1002_031002_cometstudy.html Did Comets Make Life On Earth Possible? Stefan Lovgren National Geographic News October 2, 2003 An ambitious new NASA research project aims to answer perhaps the most vexing and profound of scientific mysteries: How did life on Earth begin? The multimillion-dollar undertaking, led by the NASA Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland, brings together an interdisciplinary team of scientists from around the world to study how organic molecules are created in interstellar clouds and delivered to planets as they form. The research will focus on the role of comets. Many scientists believe there is increasing evidence that comets supplied at least part of the raw material for the origin of life on Earth. The theory is changing the way scientists think about life in the universe and raises the possibility of alien worlds. Our mission is to gain a greater understanding of the origin and evolution of organic material on Earth, said Michael Mumma, a comet expert and director of the Goddard Center for Astrobiology, NASA Astrobiology Institute, who is leading the research. The key question is: Were water and organic molecules delivered to Earth by cometary impact and does [that process] extend to planets elsewhere? Dirty Snowballs Astronomers believe that stars, planets, and comets form in a massive chain reaction that begins when a cloud of interstellar material collapses under its own gravity. Some of the material forms the star-like our sun-and some of it gets spread out in a disk around the nascent star. Some material in this disk later aggregates and forms planets. Close to the sun, where it's warm, leftover debris (rocky material) turns into asteroids. In the outer regions, where it's cold, icy chunks of rock and dust turn into comets. It is generally believed that organic molecules, which contain carbon atoms and are present in all life forms known to science, are trapped in large amounts in both interstellar clouds and comets. We have extremely definite evidence from our radio observations that there's quite an array of organic molecules in interstellar space, said Bill Irvine, a professor of astronomy at the University of Massachusetts in Amherst, who is measuring radio waves from celestial objects as part of the research effort. There's other evidence that comets contain organic material. When European spacecraft analyzed dust particles from the Halley comet in 1986, it turned out to be some of the most organic-rich material measured in the solar system. Meteorites that have hit Earth contain a whole suite of molecules, including amino acids, which play an important role in terrestrial biology. If such material exists in meteorites, which come from a class of asteroids, there's every reason to think it must also exist in comets, Irvine said. Panspermia Goes Primordial Most scientists have long believed that life on Earth began as a primordial soup in a lake or pond some four billion years ago. According to this theory, chemicals from the atmosphere combined with some form of energy necessary to make amino acids-the building blocks of proteins-to create the first primitive organisms, kicking off the evolution of Earth's species. But the primordial soup theory is being increasingly disputed. Many geophysicists now say the Earth did not have enough gases, like ammonia and methane, from which organic material like amino acids could be produced. Instead, a growing cadre of scientists believes the organic material needed to create life may not have been produced on Earth, but was instead brought here by comets. The newly formed Earth was likely subjected to a fierce bombardment of comets four billion years ago. These comets may have brought with them the organic compounds that later evolved into living matter. According to the most radical theory, known as panspermia, life in a ready-made form is ubiquitous in the galaxy and is brought by comets to new planets. Few scientists subscribe to this hypothesis, however. Perhaps the main question is whether organic molecules can survive space travel or if they break up and contribute the atoms that are necessary to ultimately make biological material and water? Our museums contain examples of primitive meteorites that likely are very similar to the material delivered by comets, said Mumma. The key point is that small bodies deliver their organics intact to Earth's surface. This must have been a common event on the early Earth. Many scientists are now leaning toward a combination of the comet impact theory and the primordial soup thesis. Some chemical building blocks may have come from comets, but the assembly into life took place on Earth. The comet impact theory fits in with the primordial soup theory, Mumma said. They can be complimentary. Drilling Into Comets Scientists will measure the molecular make-up of comets to better understand
[meteorite-list] Fossil Meteorites
If memory serves, the petography of the Swedish fossil meteorites (Thorsberg/Kinnekulle) (480mya) was altered/ replaced (chemically). Most of their original chemistry is gone, being true fossils, their physical form was retained. Someone noted here that while the meteorites had been largely replaced by calcite and barite, traces of chromite and iridium were found within. Bernd has posted the studies on this once before (1999?). I wonder if chondrities were found else small blebs of serpentine. Lake Murray, Oklahoma, US-- at 150 million years, is the meteorite with oldest known terrestrial age. It was found in situ in limestone where it landed. A large portion of it is meteoric shale however the core is still bears a remarkable amount of metal and preserved Widmanstatten features. The T-age is consistent with the age of the strata, I believe. Someone mentioned Hoba, it is resting in limestone bedrock within the pit it excavated upon landing. In my days on Ebay before I was this poor even, there was an auction for an apparent fossil meteorite impact channel and all-- in cross section (offered but failed to meet reserve). The 2-3 inch wide nugget was at the bottom of an apparent 10-8 inch long impact channel made while the very fine ooze was still mucky. The cavity had several heart-valve appearing trap doors. They looked like partial refilling of the ooze after the meteorite had passed. The owner never relisted it and the where abouts are unknown. The 3-D exposure was far more dynamic than the any simulation ever has been. In one of my many idle projects, I have two specimens recovered from the Eastern PA anthracite field which have some halmarks of a meteorite. They are stored away awaiting some researcher taking them on. (hint, hint) Regards, Elton __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mystery Meteorite
The H.H.Nininger Collection of Meteorites(1933 version)lists a meteorite that I find no where else in the literature. It'll be obvious to many on the list why I would like to know about this. "Ollague, Bolivia, South America. Pallasite. P. Found 1924. Known Wt. 6.66 Kgs. Specimen:146a. 376 grams." Any information will be appreciated. Thank you, Kevin Kichinka
Re: [meteorite-list] About the swedish fossile-meteorites (from the news-group archives 1997)
Hi, Omigod! The Nakhla Mollusk! Did anyone actually see this Mollusk being struck by the meteorite? Or is this merely a hysterical rumor being spread far and wide in the Mollusk community? Sterling K. Webb Pekka Savolainen wrote: If the odds were not bent enough, it appears that the meteorite hit an Ordovician mollusk which is fossilized in conjunction with the meteorite! (Spratt and Stephens, 1992, p.53) __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Indian Meteorite- anyone going-Travel WARNING for the area.
The Indian government has a publication (a copy of which I obtained from Mike Farmer) on that country's archive of meteorites for research. In it they state the gvt. policy that all meteorites found in that country are property of the gvt. BY LAW and can be traded only by their research facilities. Anyone have an update on this policy? Ron Hartman - Original Message - From: almitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: David Freeman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Atul Kumar [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Indian Meteorite- anyone going-Travel WARNING for the area. Hi Dave and all, I can personally vouch for Atul's sincerity and kindness and just wanting to help anyone wanting to go over there and hunt. It never hurts to have contacts and I know that Atul's only motivation was and is for peoples safety as well as getting them to the fall more effectively. Every country has it protocols and customs (drinking goat milk or was that eating goat meat, was it goat meat?? :-) and it is a good idea to know them if you go there. Better to have friends helping you out than have something bad happen trying to track meteorites down. It can sometimes be dangerous. Atul is a collector/aficionado and has bought some nice specimens from me and educates with them. I know the Calumet Astronomical Society thinks highly of him as well. I agree Dave that if the hunters planned to go they would have had the tickets bought but it still wouldn't be too late to contact Atul and let him help you out. Many of the hunters check the mailing list from remote sites. All my best! --AL __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites in limestone (or in sandstone, 120 pcs in Finland?????)
Hi Pekka, many thanks for putting the picture online! http://www.dlc.fi/~nuuska/kinnekulle.jpg It's fascinating - I think now the problem of the conservation of meteorites is solved: Just throw your collections in the next ocean or lake. Martin A. - Original Message - From: Pekka Savolainen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 9:31 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites in limestone (or in sandstone, 120 pcs in Finland?) Hello, Martin A. and the list. and thank you for the pic, Martin A. Well, these are really not micrometeorites. I put the pic on the net; http://www.dlc.fi/~nuuska/kinnekulle.jpg just to save time and trouble from Martin, hope this is ok. If not, Martin, please, let me know, and I´ll remove the pic. I thik, this is a beaty worth to share. I also aggree with Bjorn, these should be listed as a real find in the cataloque. take care, pekka s Martin Altmann wrote: Hi Pekka and the list, the fossile meteorites of Kinnekulle are very macroscopic. I couldn't find a picture in the web, so I scanned a photo from a magazine. (SterneWeltraum, 8/2003, p.15) The meteorite there is about 8cm x 6cm / 3.15 x 2.36 and is looking like, well, just as a an ordinary chondrite has to look like. I have no place to put it online, so if somebody interested in the picture I will mail it off list. Martin (from now on Martin A. to avoid confusion). - Original Message - From: Pekka Savolainen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 3:24 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites in limestone (or in sandstone, 120 pcs in Finland?) Hello, Martin and the list, we have also some fossile ???micro-meteorites??? found in Finland in sandstone, in Koylio, some 1,4 Ga old ??? These was found in 1960, then confimed as meteorites by Geological Survey of Finland and Munster university in 1998. Some ???120 micrometeorites??? was found. Anyway, when more material was collected, no meteorites was found at all. So in fact at the moment nobody knows, where those 120 ??? micrometeorites??? came from, so it´s possible, these Koylio ???micrometeorites??? don´t exist at all. They were discretidet later in 1990´s. Jarmo Moilanen has a more spesific story on his site; http://www.netppl.fi/~jarmom/geo/met/mkoyli_e.htm I have tried to find a clear difference between a micrometeorites and meteorites, so if somebody has it, please, let me know. There are several very, very small ones listed in cataloque, but the real micrometeorites is a different thing anyway, so the clear description with a micrometeorite would be more than welcome. take care, pekka s __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Pekka Savolainen Jokiharjuntie 4 FIN-71330 Rasala FINLAND + 358 400 818 912 Group Home Page: http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/eurocoin Group Email Address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Large Meteorite Found In Sweden
Pekka The List, I think we must use Monica Grady et. al. and the recent 'Catalogue of Meteorites' as the definite authority of what constitute a meteorite fall/find or not. Brunflo and Osterplana is included in the Catalogue. As seems to be indicated by other postings here, there are other quarries where there are fossile meteorites in Sweden. They should be included as seperate entities if it is possible to indetify their mineralogy as separate falls. In an international discussion of meteorites, no country can choose their own individual criteria for what is a meteorite or not. I don't see a clear sign that Sweden has done that either... Another thing that puzzles me is why on the page on the link to swedish meteorites you have supplied (which I have known for some time), http://www.nrm.se/mi/swemet.html.en Muonionalusta is numbered I-IV...! Why, does this mean 'Muonionalusta' is four (or now five and even more) (totally) different iron meteorites?? The entry in the 'Catalogue of Meteorites' does in no way indicate this: 'A mass of 7.5kg was found 2.5 miles WSW of Kitkiojärvi in Muonionalusta. Description, with an analysis, 8.02 %Ni, A.G. Högbom (1908). Measurements of the Widmanstätten figures on two pieces suggest tetragonal rather than cubic symmetry, D. Malmqvist (1948). A second mass of 15kg was found in 1946, and a third of 6.2kg in 1963, F.E. Wickman (1964). A fourth piece was recovered in 1988 (approx 6 kg), Lagerbäck and Wickman (1997). Analysis, 8.42 %Ni, 2.24 ppm.Ga, 0.133 ppm.Ge, 1.6 ppm.Ir, R. Schaudy et al. (1972). Description; weathered, V.F. Buchwald (1975). Cooling rate, K.L. Rasmussen et al. (1995).' Regards, Bjørn Sørheim At 01:10 02.10.03 +0300, you wrote: Hello, Bjorn and the list, the swedish NHM calculates all 4 Muonionalusta founds + now this as different ones, numbered I, II, III and IV (V?). Brunflo and Österplana are fossile-meteorites, and they are listed in another category by NHM, so the total by them is as follows; 1. Hessle 1869 2. Ställdalen 1876 3. Lundsgård 1889 4. Hedeskoga 1922 5. Lillaverke 1930 6. Ekeby 1939 7. Hallingeberg 1944 8. Långhalsen 1947 9. Hökmark 1954 10. Näs (1907) 11. Ultuna (1944) 12-15. Muonionalusta I-IV first found (1906) 16. Föllinge (1932) Fossilisied ones; 17. Brunflo 18. Österplana (several) So if we use this listing, we have 16 + 2. Cataloque of Meteorites lists all Muonionalustas as one find, so with this listing we have 13 + 2, so in fact both are correct. If Ultuna + Hessle will be counted as paired, we have that 9 during the last 100 years, if not, we have 10. If we count also the fossilised ones, we have 11 or 12 in case we count Muonionalusta as one find. Just at least to ways to list the falls and finds in Sweden. The first link (Kuriren) was to the small newspaper from north, and there is a mistake, no doubt. You have right with Bjurbole, it´s more than possible, that several tens of kg:s was taken by the local people during the recovery, so the real total may be well over 350 kg:s. By the way, this one is the only real trough ice -case as far as I know. Have tried to find also others, but no luck this far. The counting of the falls and finds may be difficult some times. In Finland we count Marjalahti as a finnish fall, cataloque lists it as a russian one. The fact is, the Marjalahti village was lost to USSR during the WW II, so to me it looks clear, Marjalahti (1902) is a genuine finnish one. That´s why the cataloque lists the total falls and finds in Finland as 12, but the finnish NHM (and me too...;-) as 13. It´s also more than possible, also Muonionalusta pieces can be found in Finland. The nearest found is located some 3 km:s from the border between Sweden and Finland. The direction of the ice during the last Ice Age was from north-west to south-east and from north to south on the area Muonionalustas has been found. Just wondering, if these pieces one day will be found in Finland, how they will be listed...;- take care, pekka s Bjørn Sørheim wrote: Hello Pekka List, 16??, Which one is the 16th, has there been one in the last years - after Osterplana(1987) that is? The last version of the Catalogue of Meteorites (2000) says there are 15 meteorites found in total in Sweden (finds or falls), so does the CD version (when choosing 'Valid' finds). When not choosing 'Valid' you get 19 items, the additional 4 are hoaxes, pseudometeorites etc. When you first posted about this new 158 kg find you cited the URL: http://www.kuriren.nu/default.asp?TargetForm=/utmatningssidan.aspArticleID= 354789CategoryID=2764ArticleStateID=2ClientID=0 In this swedish newspaper article you find this statement (swedish again): 'Det tilhor ovanligheterna med meteoritfynd i Sverige. Sedan 1800-talets borjan har bara nio stycken hittas'. In English this translates to: 'Findings of meteorites belongs to the unusual in Sweden. Since the start of the 1800s only nine meteorites have been found'. This is for sure
[meteorite-list] Re: Possible Meteors from Mars?
A recent thread on the meteorite-list suggested a possible martian meteoroid stream with a maximum on October 3rd. List member Steve Schoner suggested this, and pointed out that two famous martian meteorite falls, Chassigny (1815), and Zagami (1962) fell on this date. No location of a possible radiant was given, but maybe someone on this last can calculate a theoretical radiant. I like the idea, but the point is, I cannot conceive of any kind of orbital mechanics that would deliver Martian meteorites to earth in the form of a concise stream. A stream results when debris is trailing a parent object in similar orbits, e.g. trailing an (near-earth orbit) asteroid or comet. Ordinary meteorites can have an origin in a near-earth asteroid. But Martian meteorites by definition do not. It is debris thrown away from the Martian surface in presumably widely varying trajectories. I cannot conceive of any mechanism which would cause this to form a compact stream. It would require an asteroid-sized body of SNC composition in a Near Earth orbit with debris originating on this body (and not Mars itself) trailing it and I don't see how that would be possible, for debris originating from an impact on Mars. If SNC meteorites would really form a stream, then this in fact might indicate that Mars is NOT their parent object. Unless someone from the impact-scientists can point out the likelyness of an impact on Mars throwing a significantly *large* body (i.e. asteroid size) into a NEA orbit. Just my 2 cents worth of thoughts on this. Comments welcome. - Marco PS: I fully second the call to be alert for fireballs these days. There is something odd with these late september-early october fireballs over the years. Only observational data can determine whether it is a stream. -- Marco Langbroek Leiden, the Netherlands 52.15896 N, 4.48884 E (WGS 84) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://home.wanadoo.nl/marco.langbroek -- __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] About the swedish fossile-meteorites (from the news-group archives 1997)
What rumor? We are serious about such things. It is more likely this type of voracious mollusk swallowed the meteoroid by mistake, and then ended up with a blockage in its' bowel that just wouldn't clear. Most of the bulky mollusk in those days probably could take a direct impact hit...almost like water off its' back you might say. I like the swallowing theory a little more. Feeling the same pain on occasion, John Hi, Omigod! The Nakhla Mollusk! Did anyone actually see this Mollusk being struck by the meteorite? Or is this merely a hysterical rumor being spread far and wide in the Mollusk community? Sterling K. Webb Pekka Savolainen wrote: If the odds were not bent enough, it appears that the meteorite hit an Ordovician mollusk which is fossilized in conjunction with the meteorite! (Spratt and Stephens, 1992, p.53) __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Indian Meteorite- anyone going-Travel WARNING for the area.
Yeah right. Russia has the same policy Bill Kieskowski The Indian government has a publication (a copy of which I obtained from Mike Farmer) on that country's archive of meteorites for research. In it they state the gvt. policy that all meteorites found in that country are property of the gvt. BY LAW and can be traded only by their research facilities. Anyone have an update on this policy? Ron Hartman - Original Message - From: almitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: David Freeman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Atul Kumar [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Indian Meteorite- anyone going-Travel WARNING for the area. Hi Dave and all, I can personally vouch for Atul's sincerity and kindness and just wanting to help anyone wanting to go over there and hunt. It never hurts to have contacts and I know that Atul's only motivation was and is for peoples safety as well as getting them to the fall more effectively. Every country has it protocols and customs (drinking goat milk or was that eating goat meat, was it goat meat?? :-) and it is a good idea to know them if you go there. Better to have friends helping you out than have something bad happen trying to track meteorites down. It can sometimes be dangerous. Atul is a collector/aficionado and has bought some nice specimens from me and educates with them. I know the Calumet Astronomical Society thinks highly of him as well. I agree Dave that if the hunters planned to go they would have had the tickets bought but it still wouldn't be too late to contact Atul and let him help you out. Many of the hunters check the mailing list from remote sites. All my best! --AL __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] October MeteoriteTimes Now Up
Hello Everyone! MeteoriteTimes for October is now up. As always a big thank you to all the writers who make it possible. Just a reminder that all previous Months are on-line under the Back Links link at the top of the page. Also, all previous articles are indexed on-line under the Article Index link at the top of the page. We have 18 months of articles on-line now. http://www.meteoritetimes.com/ Enjoy! Paul and Jim ** Paul Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jim Tobin [EMAIL PROTECTED] The Meteorite Exchange, Inc. http://www.meteorite.com MeteoriteTimes.com http://www.meteoritetimes.com PMB#455 P.O. Box 7000, Redondo Beach, CA 90277 USA *** __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
