[meteorite-list] AD some meteorites for auction on ebay II
Hi all, a better link http://members.ebay.at/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPageuserid=austromet Cheers, Christian I.M.C.A. #2673 at www.imca.cc website: www.austromet.com Ing. Christian Anger Korngasse 6 2405 Bad Deutsch-Altenburg AUSTRIA email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] THE NEW SOLAR SYSTEM
Hi, All, Even before the vote, I found a nice graphic depiction of the New Solar System with the planets well drawn and to correct scale by size if not distance. It's 1.24 MB jpeg, 5669x3500 pixels and would print up nicely if you need a small poster. http://tmp.4chan.org/hr/src/1155766127506.jpg Sterling K. Webb __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD some meteorites for auction on ebay
Hi all, I have put some meteorites for auction on ebay A wonderful oriented looking Sikhote-Alin shrapnel, worth a look. My last Savik I fragments, Kilabo Individual, Gujba, Marlow, Maigatari-Danduma, Agpalilik see http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemih=008item=180019165287 and http://search.ebay.at/_W0QQsassZaustrometQQhtZ-1 Cheers, Christian I.M.C.A. #2673 at www.imca.cc website: www.austromet.com Ing. Christian Anger Korngasse 6 2405 Bad Deutsch-Altenburg AUSTRIA email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Moss Meteorite - The uncut story...
Against my better judgement, I feel that I should report on my knowledge of the laws in Norway. It is clear that meteorites found on property belong to the land owner (although this has never been tested). The land owner can, of course, give permission, in which case, the meteorites belong to the finder according to whatever deal they've made. Good for Mike and Morten. Meteorites on public property apparently belong to the finder although the state may be able to make a case in certain circumstances such as parks or 'crown' land. Again, this has never been tested and is unlikely to come about. This material does not currently fall under the category of cultural property however Elen Roaldset at UiO would like to make it that way. It seems that different people were given different stories by the same authorities. As to 'whose piece was rained' on, I wouldn't let it affect your decision to buy or not to buy from a particular dealer. All of this material is beautifully fresh and I expect that most people will not notice the differences in oxidation unless they're really critical. If it's really crucial to the discussion one can (I don't have time or really care to) check the archived weather data for Moss to see when it did and didn't rain. In the end, find a piece that you like at the right price and buy it from someone you feel comfortable with. Will more material be found? Quite possibly. I can't believe that the strewn field has been searched out at this point but I also wouldn't expect huge additional quantities to be recovered and make it to market. It is challenging to find anything there and most has been lost to water hazards. Locals may find more in their backyards but there is a very high chance that that material will go to an institution. Which, given the way that this material seems to be affecting people, is not a bad thing at all. The University of Oslo seems to be quite keen to learn what they need to do with this material scientifically. While I might not agree with their stance on new laws, I do admire the initiative that they're starting to show with regards to learning about what should be done with the material. I will also add that all of this discussion has made me decide to donate more material to an institution. I just haven't decided which one yet. I guess that's it for the new telescope ;-) . At least my wife will be happy. Have fun, Mike __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteor Shape
Hi Rick- It isn't really possible that you saw the shape of the meteor itself- at the largest it was probably less than a meter across, and at its end at least 30 km high. But meteors can produce some peculiar atmospheric effects- what you saw could have been that, or could have been a visual illusion. Given the angle you saw it burn out, any material that fell to the ground would have been many miles away. Most likely, however, nothing reached the ground. Given the timing it is very possible you saw a Perseid meteor; if so it was even smaller (a few cm at most) and higher, and definitely wouldn't have produced meteorites. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: Meteorite Game [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 4:33 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteor Shape The other night I saw a meteor tumbling and I could clearly see it's shape and general outline. It burned out about 50 degrees from my postion where 90 would be directly overhead. How close was this meteor? The American Meteor Society is saying it landed miles away but other professional astronomers are saying it was close. Thought comments? Cordially, Rick __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 53 planets, soon to be 80
80. Crikey! I don't fancy trying to write a mnemonic for that one! Kids will graduate from school simply by being able to remember the first 75, I'm sure. Rob McC - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:59 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] 53 planets, soon to be 80 By the if it is round, and not orbiting another planet, it's a planet definition, our solar system now has 53 planets, with the number soon to jump to 80. I feel a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices of schoolchildren suddenly crying out in terror. (see the site to see the charts) http://www.gps.caltech.edu/~mbrown/whatsaplanet/howmanplanets.html How many planets are there? While most people would answer that there are 9 or perhaps 10 planets, a proposal by the International Astronomical Union that will be voted on soon would significantly increase the number of objects that astronomers call planets. The proposal is to call any object that is large enough to make gravity cause it to become round a planet. How many planets would this make? The nine planets that everyone knows are all round, so they are clearly planets. Ceres, the largest asteroid, is also round and would become a planet (the fifth). The big question, then, is how many new planets are there in the Kuiper belt, a region of rocky/icy bodies beyond Neptune, and the home of Pluto and 2003 UB313 (the 10th planet). While we can't see most of the objects in the Kuiper belt well enough to determine whether they are round or not, we can estimate how big an object has to be before it becomes round and therefore how many objects in the Kuiper belt are likely round. In the asteroid belt Ceres, with a diameter of 900 km, is the only object large enough to be round, so somewhere around 900 km is a good cutoff for rocky bodies like asteroids. Kuiper belt objects have a lot of ice in their interiors, though. Ice is not as hard as rock, so it less easily withstands the force of gravity, and it takes less force to make an ice ball round. The best estimate for how big an icy body needs to be to become round comes from looking at icy satellites of the giant planets. The smallest body that is generally round is Saturn's satellite Mimas, which has a diameter of about 400 km. Several satellites which have diameters around 200 km are not round. So somewhere between 200 and 400 km an icy body becomes round. Objects with more ice will become round at smaller sizes while those with less rock might be bigger. We will take 400 km as a reasonable lower limit and assume that anything larger than 400 km in the Kuiper belt is round, and thus a planet. How many objects larger than 400 km are there in the Kuiper belt? We can't answer this question precisely, because we don't know the sizes of more than a handful of Kuiper belt objects (for an explanation why, see the discussion on the size of 2003 UB313), but, again, we can make a reasonable guess. If we assume that the typical small Kuiper belt object reflects 10% of the sunlight that hits its surface we know how bright a 400 km object would be in the Kuiper belt. As of late August 2006, 44 objects this size or larger in the Kuiper belt (including, of course, 2003 UB313 and Pluto), and one (Sedna) in the region beyond the Kuiper belt. In addition our large ongoing Palomar survey has detected approximately 30 more objects of this size which are currently undergoing detailed study. We have not yet completed our survey of the Kuiper belt. Our best estimate is that a complete survey of the Kuiper belt would more than triple this number. For now, the number of known objects in the solar system which are likely to be round is 53, with the number jumping to 80 when the objects from our survey are announced, and to more than 200 when the Kuiper belt is fully surveyed. The large number of new planets in the solar system are very different from the previous 9 planets. Most are so small that they are smaller across than the distance from Los Angeles to San Francisco. They are so small that about 30,000 of them could fit inside the earth. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
[meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - August 17, 2006
http://www.spacerocksinc.com/August_17.html __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Double List Postings?
Is anyone else getting double postings from the list? Several times over the past week, I have received a group of emails which had already come through the previous day or two days before. Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Double List Postings?
In a message dated 8/17/2006 7:24:17 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is anyone else getting double postings from the list? Several times over the past week, I have received a group of emails which had already come through the previous day or two days before. ___ Yes, I had several yesterday evening come though. Regards, Michael Johnson SPACE ROCKS, INC. 932 Hanging Rock Road Boiling Springs, South Carolina 29316-7401 864.542.6704 http://www.spacerocksinc.com IMCA#5184 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Planets Galore
Dear List: I enjoyed the debate and conversation on this list on the subject of what a definition of a planet is. It was not acrimonious and personal, and was very interesting and worthwhile. Many of us do not care if Ceres is a planet or even if the old Apollo rocket stages are called planets --well, maybe I stretch it there--, the important thing is to have a definition of a term that must be used in scholarly journals and go on. Of course common usage will differ from the IAU definition, and that is OK. After all, we still speak of sunrise and sunset, although we no longer regard the Universe as Ptolemaic. As for astrologers, some will be confused and some will see it as a bonanza. That is their concern. This list is concerned with the scientific study and other aspects of meteorites, and the definition of planet is important to this list because meteorites can come from some of these bodies. The worst possible outcome is to have no definition approved. If the definition is later shown to be faulty, or fails to optimally facilitate the communication of scientific results, it can be ammended later. There is an analogy to this confusion. In some states of the USA people are permitted to marry at a young age. Having done so, they move to another state without such laws, and are arrested for sex crimes. While this is much more a serious non-uniformity problem than the definition of a planet, it adequately illustrates the problem that nonuniformity creates. What one journal calls a planet another will not allow, this is akin to the young-marriage problem. A popular science writer would have to have a separate list of acceptable planets for each editor. It is better to have even a mediocre uniformity than confusion. And by no means am I necessarily calling the proposed definition mediocre. It was clearly carefully thought out by many people. But even if it were mediocre, I would still favor it because it would end confusion on the issue. Mars with his war chariot, Jupiter with his thunder, it is nice to have little farmer Ceres finally joining the retinue. Francis Graham __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Double List Postings?
You guys are either up incredibly early, or, like me, up very late. Michael on 8/17/06 4:29 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 8/17/2006 7:24:17 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Is anyone else getting double postings from the list? Several times over the past week, I have received a group of emails which had already come through the previous day or two days before. ___ Yes, I had several yesterday evening come though. Regards, Michael Johnson SPACE ROCKS, INC. 932 Hanging Rock Road Boiling Springs, South Carolina 29316-7401 864.542.6704 http://www.spacerocksinc.com IMCA#5184 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car. -- Is our children learning? I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully. More and more of our imports come from overseas. The very act of spending money can be expensive. George W. Bush -- Blind Faith in bad leadership is NOT Patriotism -- Dissent is the highest form of Patriotism. Thomas Jefferson -- What if the hokey pokey is really what it's all about? __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Planets Galore
As an Anthropologist and Sociologist I find myself more interested in WHO considers these changes in nomenclature desirable and who considers them undesirable. As for myself, I consider sweeping changes such as this highly undesirable. This fits in with several elements dealing with human preferances, which appear to be at least related clear back to the Order level, as many parallels can be made to Baboon preferences. The primary determinant to acceptance of change appears to be most closely associated with aging. However, at what age preferences remain open differ, at least among humans - US dwellers specifically. For instance. Baboons in the later phases of life, particularly the higher ranking males, will NOT eat new foods, even if the troup moves (or is relocated) to an area or refuge where many new and desirable foodstuffs are readily available. In the US, people will not try new foods after about the age of 35. For instance, a Sushi restraint has nearly no hope of making it among the older diners in the midwest, as most of the population over 35 have never eaten sushi and, therefore, are not open to trying it. However, such preferences are not limited to foodstuff, and new or adventurous behavior is also limited. Music seems to be one of the most rigid criteria, with preferences beginning at about 14 and lasting only until somewhere between 21 and 30ish. After that, little new styles tend to be accepted and the individual will forever drift toward the music of his/her youth. In other things, ranging from sports to toothpaste the more successful a person is in a stable career, the less flexible they seem to be. Therefore, I will choose to view my total resentment of this planet taxonomy revolution as being hogwash due to my long term successfulness in my chosen fields. (But how do I then explain my ever growing fascination with new interests) Anyway, food for thought, even if you don't like sushi! Michael on 8/17/06 4:31 AM, Francis Graham at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear List: I enjoyed the debate and conversation on this list on the subject of what a definition of a planet is. It was not acrimonious and personal, and was very interesting and worthwhile. Many of us do not care if Ceres is a planet or even if the old Apollo rocket stages are called planets --well, maybe I stretch it there--, the important thing is to have a definition of a term that must be used in scholarly journals and go on. Of course common usage will differ from the IAU definition, and that is OK. After all, we still speak of sunrise and sunset, although we no longer regard the Universe as Ptolemaic. As for astrologers, some will be confused and some will see it as a bonanza. That is their concern. This list is concerned with the scientific study and other aspects of meteorites, and the definition of planet is important to this list because meteorites can come from some of these bodies. The worst possible outcome is to have no definition approved. If the definition is later shown to be faulty, or fails to optimally facilitate the communication of scientific results, it can be ammended later. There is an analogy to this confusion. In some states of the USA people are permitted to marry at a young age. Having done so, they move to another state without such laws, and are arrested for sex crimes. While this is much more a serious non-uniformity problem than the definition of a planet, it adequately illustrates the problem that nonuniformity creates. What one journal calls a planet another will not allow, this is akin to the young-marriage problem. A popular science writer would have to have a separate list of acceptable planets for each editor. It is better to have even a mediocre uniformity than confusion. And by no means am I necessarily calling the proposed definition mediocre. It was clearly carefully thought out by many people. But even if it were mediocre, I would still favor it because it would end confusion on the issue. Mars with his war chariot, Jupiter with his thunder, it is nice to have little farmer Ceres finally joining the retinue. Francis Graham __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car. -- Is our children learning? I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully. More and more of our imports come from overseas. The very act of spending money can be expensive. George W. Bush -- Blind Faith in bad leadership is NOT Patriotism -- Dissent is the highest form of Patriotism. Thomas Jefferson -- What if
Re: [meteorite-list] Double List Postings?
Yes, I also had some but for me it was this morning here in Lyon, France! Cheers Fred - Original Message - From: Jim Strope [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Central meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 1:24 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Double List Postings? Is anyone else getting double postings from the list? Several times over the past week, I have received a group of emails which had already come through the previous day or two days before. Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Double List Postings?
No... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Strope Sent: 17 August 2006 12:24 To: Meteorite Central Subject: [meteorite-list] Double List Postings? Is anyone else getting double postings from the list? Several times over the past week, I have received a group of emails which had already come through the previous day or two days before. Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] Double List Postings?
No ... :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jim Strope Sent: 17 August 2006 12:24 To: Meteorite Central Subject: [meteorite-list] Double List Postings? Is anyone else getting double postings from the list? Several times over the past week, I have received a group of emails which had already come through the previous day or two days before. Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 53 planets, soon to be 80
THAT SHOULD BE ENOUGH Jerry Flaherty - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 6:59 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] 53 planets, soon to be 80 By the if it is round, and not orbiting another planet, it's a planet definition, our solar system now has 53 planets, with the number soon to jump to 80. I feel a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices of schoolchildren suddenly crying out in terror. (see the site to see the charts) http://www.gps.caltech.edu/~mbrown/whatsaplanet/howmanplanets.html How many planets are there? While most people would answer that there are 9 or perhaps 10 planets, a proposal by the International Astronomical Union that will be voted on soon would significantly increase the number of objects that astronomers call planets. The proposal is to call any object that is large enough to make gravity cause it to become round a planet. How many planets would this make? The nine planets that everyone knows are all round, so they are clearly planets. Ceres, the largest asteroid, is also round and would become a planet (the fifth). The big question, then, is how many new planets are there in the Kuiper belt, a region of rocky/icy bodies beyond Neptune, and the home of Pluto and 2003 UB313 (the 10th planet). While we can't see most of the objects in the Kuiper belt well enough to determine whether they are round or not, we can estimate how big an object has to be before it becomes round and therefore how many objects in the Kuiper belt are likely round. In the asteroid belt Ceres, with a diameter of 900 km, is the only object large enough to be round, so somewhere around 900 km is a good cutoff for rocky bodies like asteroids. Kuiper belt objects have a lot of ice in their interiors, though. Ice is not as hard as rock, so it less easily withstands the force of gravity, and it takes less force to make an ice ball round. The best estimate for how big an icy body needs to be to become round comes from looking at icy satellites of the giant planets. The smallest body that is generally round is Saturn's satellite Mimas, which has a diameter of about 400 km. Several satellites which have diameters around 200 km are not round. So somewhere between 200 and 400 km an icy body becomes round. Objects with more ice will become round at smaller sizes while those with less rock might be bigger. We will take 400 km as a reasonable lower limit and assume that anything larger than 400 km in the Kuiper belt is round, and thus a planet. How many objects larger than 400 km are there in the Kuiper belt? We can't answer this question precisely, because we don't know the sizes of more than a handful of Kuiper belt objects (for an explanation why, see the discussion on the size of 2003 UB313), but, again, we can make a reasonable guess. If we assume that the typical small Kuiper belt object reflects 10% of the sunlight that hits its surface we know how bright a 400 km object would be in the Kuiper belt. As of late August 2006, 44 objects this size or larger in the Kuiper belt (including, of course, 2003 UB313 and Pluto), and one (Sedna) in the region beyond the Kuiper belt. In addition our large ongoing Palomar survey has detected approximately 30 more objects of this size which are currently undergoing detailed study. We have not yet completed our survey of the Kuiper belt. Our best estimate is that a complete survey of the Kuiper belt would more than triple this number. For now, the number of known objects in the solar system which are likely to be round is 53, with the number jumping to 80 when the objects from our survey are announced, and to more than 200 when the Kuiper belt is fully surveyed. The large number of new planets in the solar system are very different from the previous 9 planets. Most are so small that they are smaller across than the distance from Los Angeles to San Francisco. They are so small that about 30,000 of them could fit inside the earth. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 'Plutons' Push Planet Total Up To 12-- Mike Brown's view
Hi again Darren: Mike Brown makes some interesting and valid points. Others have too. No system is going to be perfect. We are dealing with Mother Nature and she has her own rules. However, I am confused by some of what he says. He says that he had nothing to do with the writing of the resolution and disagrees with the committee's report. Yet, his name is on the list of committee members. Did he not vote on this (I was told the decision was unanimous)? Did he just get voted down and is now going off to give his own personal view (happens all the time and is acceptable)? Brown has always been a rebel. He is the only asteroid/comet discoverer (and there are hundreds) who has named his own asteroids without going through official channels. And before you say good for him, think what this would do if even two or three major meteorite hunters were to come up with their own naming/classification system without going through METSOC. My biggest concern, personally (my favorite asteroid and the one that I studied for decades is now a planet!) is how one is going to determine whether of not something is or is not a planet based on the information available. One needs to know its diameter, its mass (and density), and its shape. That will not be easy for the KBOs. Will large KBOs remain in limbo (namewise) until we get images and more information on them? Unless it is buried in the resolution, what about rubble piles? It is easier to make a rubble pile round than a solid body. I feel very uncomfortable with rubble pile planets. One therefore needs good mass estimates in order to get good density estimates: good luck. As many of you have said, this, in part, is a science vs. public (education) issue. People do not like change. Students have enough trouble with 9 planets, let along 12 or 24 (the official added list) vs 53 (Mike Brown's list). With stars, there are so many and most people do not worry about how they are classified. With planets there are only 9 (at the moment) and we all (most or at least some) can name all of them. Add a few more and it will get confusing even for me (good at ten but then have to take my shoes off to get up to 20). From a scientific perspective, there HAS to be a scientific definition of planet (no you cannot create a new word) so that, in the future, one can deal with bigger KBOs, Oort cloud objects and planets around other stars. Unfortunately, this is not something that the public can ignor (like a new class of stars) and, again, as many of you say, the committee cannot ignor when it comes to a final vote. Speaking to one member of the commmittee for some time the other day and knowing some of the others on the committee, I would think that they were well aware of this problem and that when the details are worked out, things will become clearer. I personally commend this committee in its ability to come up with something that all could agree on. This is fra better than what happened in the previous committee or what has happened when people just ignor the system and do their own thing (name a new object or demote a planet). Larry __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 53 planets, soon to be 80
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 01:13:54 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: 80. Crikey! I don't fancy trying to write a mnemonic for that one! Kids will graduate from school simply by being able to remember the first 75, I'm sure. I was thinking of how some Science Fiction movies and series like to do those raly long establishing shots where the camera flies past all the planets of the solar system. You'd get motion sickness trying to whip around to 80 of 'em! __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] forget about yesterday
Ok, here goes. I had a long nearly two hour phone call to Adam Hupe last night. We solved some issues, and cleared the air. We both pushed each others buttons today and a fight ensued. Most of you know us, so this is nothing new, we both know how to do it like pro's. Adam took offense at my post regarding shipping. I never meant it to regard him or Greg, but they saw it that way. They charge $4.05 for shipping, and they ship priority for that price. I was saying that people who charge $4.05 and ship first class are ripping people off, not people who charge that and who use the same money for shipping. So if Adam writes $4.05 shipping and sends it that way, they are of course, NOT ripping people off. If you bid on their item, then you agree to that shipping price. We cleared that issue up and I do not want anyone to think that I meant they were guilty anything. That was a major misunderstanding apparently. I am taking care of it now. Things went from bad to worse since we both are hotheads and did not talk until too late. I am stressed out from a long trip and the pressure of paying the credit cards off forced me to start selling today. When Adam hit back at my sales, well, there we go. So, please just forget today, we will start over fresh tomorrow, our 6 month blow up is over, and back to business of meteorites. Michael Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
RE: [meteorite-list] forget about yesterday
Hi All, and Adam and Michael. and keep it off the list! That would really mean you solved the issues. Thanks, Moni From: Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] forget about yesterday Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 08:22:57 -0700 (PDT) Ok, here goes. I had a long nearly two hour phone call to Adam Hupe last night. We solved some issues, and cleared the air. We both pushed each others buttons today and a fight ensued. Most of you know us, so this is nothing new, we both know how to do it like pro's. Adam took offense at my post regarding shipping. I never meant it to regard him or Greg, but they saw it that way. They charge $4.05 for shipping, and they ship priority for that price. I was saying that people who charge $4.05 and ship first class are ripping people off, not people who charge that and who use the same money for shipping. So if Adam writes $4.05 shipping and sends it that way, they are of course, NOT ripping people off. If you bid on their item, then you agree to that shipping price. We cleared that issue up and I do not want anyone to think that I meant they were guilty anything. That was a major misunderstanding apparently. I am taking care of it now. Things went from bad to worse since we both are hotheads and did not talk until too late. I am stressed out from a long trip and the pressure of paying the credit cards off forced me to start selling today. When Adam hit back at my sales, well, there we go. So, please just forget today, we will start over fresh tomorrow, our 6 month blow up is over, and back to business of meteorites. Michael Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] SMART-1 Impact: Last Call For Ground Based Observations
http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMTU0Z7QQE_index_0.html SMART-1 impact: last call for ground based observations European Space Agency 17 August 2006 If you are a professional or amateur astronomer and want to contribute to the final phase of the SMART-1 mission, join ESA on the impact ground observation campaign. Like most of its lunar predecessors, SMART-1 will conclude its scientific observations of the Moon through a small impact on the lunar surface. This is planned to take place in the lunar Lake of Excellence, located at mid-southern latitudes. A trim manoeuvre at the end of July has determined that the impact will most likely occur on 3 September 2006 at 07:41 CEST (05:41 UT), or at 02:36 CEST (00:36 UT) on the previous orbit due to uncertainties in the detailed knowledge of the lunar topography. If impacting on 3 Sept at 07:41 CEST, SMART-1 will touch the Moon at the lunar coordinates 36.44º South and 46.25º West. If impacting on 3 September at 02:36 CEST the lunar coordinates will be 36.4º South and 43.5º West. The Lake of Excellence is very interesting from the scientific point of view â it is a volcanic plain area surrounded by highlands, but also characterised by ground mineral heterogeneities. âWe call for ground-based observations mostly to study impact physics, the release of spacecraft volatiles, and the lofted soil mineralogy,â says Bernard Foing , SMART-1 Project Scientist at ESA. âWe look for fast imaging of the impact and of the associated ejected material, and for spectroscopic analysis, for example to find hints about the mineralogy of the impact area.â âEven if the impact at 2 kilometres per second is of modest energy, the plume might be observable if it reaches sunlight, with an amateur telescope or binoculars,â continues Foing. âFor sites not covering the time of impact, we ask for context observations before and after impact to look for the ejecta blanketâ. A number of worldwide observatories have already confirmed their participation to the campaign. They include the network of VLBI Very Long Baseline Interferometry and radio observatories, the South African Large Telescope SALT, the Calar Alto observatory in Andalucia, Spain, the ESA OGS Optical Ground Station at Tenerife, Spain, the CEA Cariri observatory in Brazil, the Argentina National Telescope, the Florida Tech Robotic telescopes, NASA IRTF and Japanese telescopes at Hawaii, as well as a number of professional and amateur astronomy telescopes around the world, and the ODIN observatory from space. ESA invites the scientific community and amateur astronomers to join in the observation campaign. For more information follow this link http://sci.esa.int/smart1impact. For more information Bernard Foing, ESA SMART-1 Project Scientist Email: Bernard.Foing @ esa.int __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] THE NEW SOLAR SYSTEM
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 00:58:21 -0500, you wrote: Hi, All, Even before the vote, I found a nice graphic depiction of the New Solar System with the planets well drawn and to correct scale by size if not Check out these scale models: http://forum.dvdtalk.com/showthread.php?t=474753 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Double List Postings
Yes,i have been double posted many times in the past two days.But delete still works. herman. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Double List Postings
The best part of double list postings is seeing the double list postings about double list postings. I love recursion, up to a . Sterling K. Webb __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Re: Ad Ebay, Book NWA sales
Hi All I have several sales going on at once. My first is some Ebay auctions ending in a few hours. See them all here; http://makeashorterlink.com/?T2961539D I have included some pallasites; Fukang, Imilac Glorieta Mountain a nice slice from Steve Schoners original find; http://makeashorterlink.com/?H3B62139D or http://cgi.ebay.com/Glorieta-Mountain-Pallasite-slice-5-47-g-Meteorite_W0QQitemZ200016429473 A nice small Portales Valley with a thick metal vein showing; http://makeashorterlink.com/?T4E62339D or http://cgi.ebay.com/Portales-Valley-H6-metal-rich-Fall-3-25-g-Meteorite_W0QQitemZ200016429757 There are also several meteorites still priced at the opening bid of 95 cents. My next sale is used books. I looked at my inventory and decided I need to reduce my stock also it will not hurt to raise some cash to help pay off my credit card before the Denver show...that way I can run it up again. :) Well any way here is the sale. First, all used (not new) books and pamphlets on my site priced under $25 will be 25% off. http://jensenmeteorites.com/book_cat.htm Go ahead and order but I must insist on a minimum $30 order. Also only one of the Carion sets can be purchased. The second part is 10% off all other used books priced $25 and up. The only exception is the Buchwald set. Sorry but that will not be discounted. In fact I have sold three sets this year alone and just might raise the price. So if you are interested in that set you might want to jump on it before I do raise the price. Finally I will also take 20% off purchases that total over $250 from the $25 and higher books. Remember first come first served so order quickly if you want a book. Postage will be actual cost plus $1.00. Offer expires Sunday night. The last sale is more of the NWA's from Dean Bessy. As usual I will sell at 20% off until Sunday night. Here are some new ones; http://jensenmeteorites.com/A224.htm Since I still have some left over from past sales I will reduce them 20% as well http://jensenmeteorites.com/A100.htm http://jensenmeteorites.com/A200.htm Lots of information to digest so if you have any questions don't hesitate to email me. If you find yourself a little short of cash but see something you just have to have let me know and maybe we can work something out. Thanks Mike -- Mike Jensen Jensen Meteorites 16730 E Ada PL Aurora, CO 80017-3137 303-337-4361 IMCA 4264 website: www.jensenmeteorites.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD - Auctions about to end on ebay
Dear Meteorites' fans, Kayunwar's auctions on ebay will end in two days and I must say that there are really great stuff this week, such as: - the one before the last full slice of DaG 947 (16.2g) with fusion crust in the edges - a nice 2.7g partslice of Tioulaoualene (CV3) - a 2.08g partslice of Sahara 02501, a Eucrite also called Ti Hedjirine from the name given by the natives to the place of discovery - Tatahouine, Vaca Muerta and more!!! - and as usual a great selection of crusted OCs, including a wonderful 816g one - if you see the picture I'm sure your hand will be attracted by the mouse for bidding! You can see all of them at http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ50QQsassZkayunwar I'll be off for the week end, so don't worry if you win some of those auctions, I'll be back on Monday and will immediately follow up. Thanks for watching and good luck to all bidders. Have a nice week-end. Frederic http://www.caillou-noir.com/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] THE PLANETARY VOTE
Hi, List, Larry, The vote of the planet definition being on August 24th, Space.com ran an article about, not the definition: the vote, just like it was FoxNews reporting on an election. The full article is reproduced below. But just like real TV, I'm going to indulge in lots of color commentary first... Caution: Political Commentary: Brian Marsden, an former opponent of the idea, is now in favor. This means the he has been assured by the IAU that the data clearing house that he built over the decades and still runs will continue in its role (as it should), and his funding won't get cut. Caution: Political Commentary: David Charbonneau (extra- solar planets) is a firm eight-planet guy, saying that the solar system produced eight fully-formed planets and that the rest is just leftover rubble. He's right ,of course, and that makes what he discovers more important because they're real planets. And, if he were an astronomer from the gas giants, he could say that the solar system produced FOUR fully-formed planets and that the rest is just leftover rubble. He'd be right, of course. And, if he were an astronomer from Jupiter, he could say that the solar system produced ONE fully-formed planet and that the rest is just leftover rubble. He'd be right, of course. Don't worry, David, your funding won't get cut. Caution: Political Commentary: The planetary scientists, as a body, are in favor of the new idea: more planets means more objects of study means more funding for them. Example: would the idiots in Congress have cut (they restored it) the DAWN mission if Ceres was a PLANET and there would have been fewer of them muttering over their rubber chicken, Ceres? Whathahell is a Ceres? You mean, the Wurld Ceres? Caution: Political Commentary: The extra-solar crowd seems to be more opposed to the new definition than anybody else. Geoff Marcy, THE extra-solar guy, was very direct. What's the matter, Geoff? You didn't get famous enough fast enough? Ironic, when the scuttlebutt was that the Committee threw in the double-planet category as a sop to them. I guess they weren't sopped. In fact, they to hate it the worst. My advice: want more funding? Find a planet of less than 3 Earth masses that's not blazing hot nor freezing cold. Our ears will perk up a lot more than if you come up with two dozen more boiling super-Jupiters grazing a photosphere... Caution: Political Commentary: Nobody seems to be directing the focus of their dis-satisfaction on the idea that the Planet Ceres is the Planet Ceres, a very pleasing development to all us closeted Ceres lovers. I haven't found even one quote lambasting Ceres as worthless junk, a miserable rockpile, asteroidal po' icewhite trash. Here's the URL and Space.com's text just as they ran it. Well, I corected their spelling errors, but that's all: Sterling K. Webb http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/060817_planet_support.html Astronomers Sharply Divided on New Planet Definition By Robert Roy Britt Senior Science Writer posted: 17 August 2006 10:41 am ET UPDATED 2:30 p.m. ET A 12-person committee representing the world's largest group of planetary scientists today threw its support behind a new planet-definition proposal that would increase the tally of planets in our solar system to 12. More dissent emerged, too, from several prominent planet experts. Straw Poll SPACE.com conducted an informal straw poll of respected astronomers who study planets and other small objects in our solar system and around other stars. Not all of them are at the IAU meeting where they can vote, but the question is this: How would you vote on the planet definition proposal? Yes = 5 No = 7 Undecided = 0 The definition, proposed yesterday at a meeting of the International Astronomical Union (IAU) in Prague, preserves Pluto's planet status and essentially classifies as planets all round objects that orbit the Sun and do not orbit another planet. The tally of planets is expected to eventually soar into the hundreds if the resolution is passed by a vote next week. The Division for Planetary Sciences (DPS), a group within the American Astronomical Society, has the opposite view. The 12-member DPS Committee, elected by the membership, strongly supports the IAU resolution, according to a statement released today. The new definition is clear and compact, it is firmly based on the physical properties of celestial objects themselves, and it is applicable to planets found around other stars. It opens the possibility for many new Pluto-like planets to be discovered in our solar system, the DPS statement reads. A SPACE.com survey of a dozen astronomers who study planets in and out of our solar system found five in favor of the resolution and seven against. A separate private straw poll being conducted by the National Academies of Sciences has so far yielded an
[meteorite-list] NOT PLANETS, PLANEMOS
Hi, Extra-solar astronomers have planet problems of their own: is a star that's not a star a planet? Or is a planet that's not a star a star? Or, nobody loves a fat jupiterian... http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/060605_planemos.html You couldn't find a better word than Plan E Moes? Sterling K. Webb __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Re: THE PLANETARY VOTE
Sterling: Comments below: Quoting Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, List, Larry, The vote of the planet definition being on August 24th, Space.com ran an article about, not the definition: the vote, just like it was FoxNews reporting on an election. The full article is reproduced below. But just like real TV, I'm going to indulge in lots of color commentary first... Caution: Political Commentary: Brian Marsden, an former opponent of the idea, is now in favor. This means the he has been assured by the IAU that the data clearing house that he built over the decades and still runs will continue in its role (as it should), and his funding won't get cut. I have known Brian for years: I think he is actually planning to retire after this IAU meeting and so will no long be the Director of the Minor Pla, oops, Small Solar System Bodies Center. Caution: Political Commentary: David Charbonneau (extra- solar planets) is a firm eight-planet guy, saying that the solar system produced eight fully-formed planets and that the rest is just leftover rubble. He's right ,of course, and that makes what he discovers more important because they're real planets. And, if he were an astronomer from the gas giants, he could say that the solar system produced FOUR fully-formed planets and that the rest is just leftover rubble. He'd be right, of course. And, if he were an astronomer from Jupiter, he could say that the solar system produced ONE fully-formed planet and that the rest is just leftover rubble. He'd be right, of course. Don't worry, David, your funding won't get cut. The terrestrial (note not a real term) planets may have formed in 2 or 3 million years, not exactly leftover rubble. In fact, Jupiter and Saturn may still have been growing which led to the late heavy bombardment (if I read things right). Caution: Political Commentary: The planetary scientists, as a body, are in favor of the new idea: more planets means more objects of study means more funding for them. Example: would the idiots in Congress have cut (they restored it) the DAWN mission if Ceres was a PLANET and there would have been fewer of them muttering over their rubber chicken, Ceres? Whathahell is a Ceres? You mean, the Wurld Ceres? [ha, lost on none-US readers, I missed it first time] I thought you had a warm spot for Ceres? It is also my license plate (mentioned this to you before). We need another female planet (no sure Xena counts). And if you think we will get any more money out of NASA, ha! Caution: Political Commentary: The extra-solar crowd seems to be more opposed to the new definition than anybody else. Geoff Marcy, THE extra-solar guy, was very direct. What's the matter, Geoff? You didn't get famous enough fast enough? Ironic, when the scuttlebutt was that the Committee threw in the double-planet category as a sop to them. I guess they weren't sopped. In fact, they to hate it the worst. My advice: want more funding? Find a planet of less than 3 Earth masses that's not blazing hot nor freezing cold. Our ears will perk up a lot more than if you come up with two dozen more boiling super-Jupiters grazing a photosphere... Yes, a lot of care went into doing things that would benefit the extra solar people. Caution: Political Commentary: Nobody seems to be directing the focus of their dis-satisfaction on the idea that the Planet Ceres is the Planet Ceres, a very pleasing development to all us closeted Ceres lovers. I haven't found even one quote lambasting Ceres as worthless junk, a miserable rockpile, asteroidal po' icewhite trash. I proposed ice on Ceres in 1980! Convinced myself otherwise (just water of hydration), but may be vindicated! Here's the URL and Space.com's text just as they ran it. Well, I corected their spelling errors, but that's all: Rob Britt is doing a poll of us planetary scientists too poor to go to IAU on our real feelings. Oh I am one of the 12 by the way. Sterling K. Webb http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/060817_planet_support.html Astronomers Sharply Divided on New Planet Definition By Robert Roy Britt Senior Science Writer posted: 17 August 2006 10:41 am ET UPDATED 2:30 p.m. ET A 12-person committee representing the world's largest group of planetary scientists today threw its support behind a new planet-definition proposal that would increase the tally of planets in our solar system to 12. More dissent emerged, too, from several prominent planet experts. Straw Poll SPACE.com conducted an informal straw poll of respected astronomers who study planets and other small objects in our solar system and around other stars. Not all of them are at the IAU meeting where they can vote, but the question is this: How would you vote on the planet definition proposal? Yes = 5 No =
Re: [meteorite-list] NOT PLANETS, PLANEMOS
I continue to break my promises. The original committee that could not come up with a definition for planet did state (I assume from some ohter IAU group working on the other end with large planets) that there are no free-floating planets. Below deuterium burning (brown dwarf) you are a sub-brown dwarf (not making this up). Larry Quoting Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi, Extra-solar astronomers have planet problems of their own: is a star that's not a star a planet? Or is a planet that's not a star a star? Or, nobody loves a fat jupiterian... http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/060605_planemos.html You couldn't find a better word than Plan E Moes? Sterling K. Webb __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Dr. Larry A. Lebofsky Senior Research Scientist Co-editor, Meteorite If you give a man a fish, Lunar and Planetary Laboratory you feed him for a day. 1541 East University If you teach a man to fish, University of Arizonayou feed him for a lifetime. Tucson, AZ 85721-0063 ~Chinese Proverb Phone: 520-621-6947 FAX:520-621-8364 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Planetary mnemonic
Yes, a planetary mnemonic could be devised that includes Pluto, Quaoar, Sedna, Charon and Xena: My Very Eerie Mom Cries Just Since Uncle Ned Perished Chaoticly to Quite Sedate X-Rays. The symbol for Ceres is established; Quaoar and Sedna's symbols I cannot imagine, , but for Xena a female sign holding a sword and shield: O o+/ Is this cute or what?! __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Astronomers Sharply Divided on New Planet Definition
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/060817_planet_support.html Astronomers Sharply Divided on New Planet Definition By Robert Roy Britt space.com 17 August 2006 A 12-person committee representing the world's largest group of planetary scientists today threw its support behind a new planet-defintion proposal that would increase the tally of planets in our solar system to 12. More dissent emerged, too, from several prominent planet experts. The definition proposed yesterday at a meeting of the International Astronomical Union (IAU) in Prague, preserves Pluto's planet status and essentially classifies as planets all round objects that orbit the Sun and do not orbit another planet. The tally of planets is expected to eventually soar into the hundreds if the resolution is passed by a vote next week. The Division for Planetary Sciences (DPS), a group within the American Astronomical Society, has the opposite view. The 12-member DPS Committee, elected by the membership, strongly supports the IAU resolution, according to a statement released today. The new definition is clear and compact, it is firmly based on the physical properties of celestial objects themselves, and it is applicable to planets found around other stars. It opens the possibility for many new Pluto -like planets to be discovered in our solar system, the DPS statement reads. An informal SPACE.com survey of astronomers who study planets in and out of our solar system found six in favor of the resolution and seven against. A separate private straw poll being conducted by the National Academies of Sciences has so far yielded an overwhelming No response, a source told SPACE.com. 'Terrible definition' Clearly no consensus has emerged, however. I think it's a terrible definition, said David Charbonneau, a researcher at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics who searches for and studies planets around other stars. Charbonneau joins two other astronomers close to the issue who sharply criticized the plan [see yesterday's story http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/060816_planet_definition.html]. - More Views In email interviews, several experts in planetary science share their views: The definition itself is not that important. There are lots of interesting bodies out there for us to study. We need to have a definition, though, because it makes it easier for people to understand what we mean. -Amy Simon-Miller, NASA scientists and member of the DPS Committee that endorsed the IAU resolution I think most astronomers agree that there are eight planets, and (like myself) are not particularly passionate about either Pluto's status or the outcome of the 'debate.' It's clear, however, that removing Pluto from the list rouses strong emotions within the public (who ultimately pay the bills). So I would just retain the eight planets plus Pluto. -Gregory Laughlin, University of California, Santa Cruz extrasolar planet researcher It [the definition] makes a lot of sense. There has to be a physically meaningful definition for a planet since we are finding lots of KBOs and planets around other stars. If you had an arbitrary cutoff at say Pluto or even Mercury, how would you justify it when looking for other bodies in the solar system or in other stellar systems? -Larry Lebofsky, senior research scientist at the Lunar and Planetary Laboratory My prejudice is to restrict the definition of planet and put Pluto and its large Kuiper Belt cousins in a different class...with a name to be determined (planetoid seems to serve well). -Jonathan Lunine, professor of planetary science and of physics at the Lunar and Planetary Lab The whole debate, with Pluto as the pivot point, seems a bit silly to me, to make such a big deal of it. If planets are round, then there are a whole lot more than 12 of them. -Laurance Doyle, SETI Institute extrasolar planet researcher The astronomers who oppose the resolution on pure or ostensibly pure science grounds find the criterion that makes Charon a planet - the center of mass is outside the body of the more massive partner - most objectionable. I also think that this criterion is new to them and they might fine it less objectionable after it gets to be a familiar rule. -Stephen Maran, retired NASA astronomer and author of Astronomy for Dummies --- Charbonneau said the definition was motivated by a desire to determine whether Pluto and another object, 2003 UB313, are planets. But the IAU now says there are a dozen other objects that might be planets but need further study. It is ironic that we are left with more, not fewer objects for which we are uncertain of their 'planetary' status, Charbonneau told SPACE.com. Perhaps astronomy will undergo a schism, with sects of astronomers proclaiming different numbers of planets. As representatives of an international community of planetary
Re: [meteorite-list] Astronomers Sharply Divided on New Planet Definition
They forgot a quote: Eight is Enough! -- Dick Van Patten http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075500/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Re:New Impact Crater
Thanks for the link Chuck. I took some time and looked through the data base and found no mention of a Tonko Astrobleme. This seems odd to me since the finder of the supposed comet crater , Johnny Tonko, made the following statement on a gold prospector and meteorite forum (NuggentShooter Forum): There is no separate write up on the crater other than the documentaion naming it Tonko Astrobleme to honor me as the discoverer. It seems to me that if the crater mentioned here was named to honor Johnny Tonko, there should be some documentation available on the internet. After all, if the USGS or some other governmental agency didn't name the crater, who did? Best, JKG At 06:55 AM 8/16/2006, Charles O'Dale wrote: AL: Have a look at: http://www.shattercones.biz/ifsgforum/http://www.shattercones.biz/ifsgforum/ and http://web.eps.utk.edu/ifsg.htmhttp://web.eps.utk.edu/ifsg.htm ... that may be of interest for you. Chuck Charles O'Dale Meeting Chair Ottawa RASC http://www.ottawa.rasc.ca/articles/odale_chuck/earth_craters/index.htmlhttp://www.ottawa.rasc.ca/articles/odale_chuck/earth_craters/index.html * Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 19:21:59 -0400 From: almitt mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] New Impact Crater To: mailto:meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.commeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Try Again. Greetings, Anyone interested in new meteorcraters should check this link out. Not only a new one but from a cometary impact. Nice for the researcher to post it on a forum rather than the usual circles. You be the judge. http://www.nuggetshooter.ipbhost.com/index.php?s=f9ca307aeb60243c16bc1d5350182090showtopic=7651http://www.nuggetshooter.ipbhost.com/index.php?s=f9ca307aeb60243c16bc1d5350182090showtopic=7651 AL Mitterling __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Re:New Impact Crater
JKG, Think there's little doubt Johnny Tonko named the Tonko Astrobleme to honor Johnny Tonko. If pressed, I'm sure he could come up with a website by Johnny Tonko naming the Tonko Astrobleme in honor of Johnny Tonko. The astrobleme is a small pond surrounded by conifers in a cold but arid region. The trees are restricted to the water source; the ground shows the characteristic wrinkle of frozen taiga -- at least, that's how I read the image he provided. One supposes the proof of cometary origin is that the pond is filled with rare cometary material... WATER. Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: JKGwilliam [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Charles O'Dale [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 5:19 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re:New Impact Crater Thanks for the link Chuck. I took some time and looked through the data base and found no mention of a Tonko Astrobleme. This seems odd to me since the finder of the supposed comet crater , Johnny Tonko, made the following statement on a gold prospector and meteorite forum (NuggentShooter Forum): There is no separate write up on the crater other than the documentaion naming it Tonko Astrobleme to honor me as the discoverer. It seems to me that if the crater mentioned here was named to honor Johnny Tonko, there should be some documentation available on the internet. After all, if the USGS or some other governmental agency didn't name the crater, who did? Best, JKG At 06:55 AM 8/16/2006, Charles O'Dale wrote: AL: Have a look at: http://www.shattercones.biz/ifsgforum/http://www.shattercones.biz/ifsgforum/ and http://web.eps.utk.edu/ifsg.htmhttp://web.eps.utk.edu/ifsg.htm ... that may be of interest for you. Chuck Charles O'Dale Meeting Chair Ottawa RASC http://www.ottawa.rasc.ca/articles/odale_chuck/earth_craters/index.htmlhttp://www.ottawa.rasc.ca/articles/odale_chuck/earth_craters/index.html * Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2006 19:21:59 -0400 From: almitt mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] New Impact Crater To: mailto:meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.commeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Try Again. Greetings, Anyone interested in new meteorcraters should check this link out. Not only a new one but from a cometary impact. Nice for the researcher to post it on a forum rather than the usual circles. You be the judge. http://www.nuggetshooter.ipbhost.com/index.php?s=f9ca307aeb60243c16bc1d5350182090showtopic=7651http://www.nuggetshooter.ipbhost.com/index.php?s=f9ca307aeb60243c16bc1d5350182090showtopic=7651 AL Mitterling __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Re:New Impact Crater
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 15:19:54 -0700, you wrote: There is no separate write up on the crater other than the documentaion naming it Tonko Astrobleme to honor me as the discoverer. Digging through Google for mentions of the Tonko Astrobleme answers the question posed earlier as to wherther or not Tonko had heard of shatter cones (or at least tektie shatter cones). From a googlecache entry from your former forum: http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:0elXYxFNLR4J:www.meteoriteimpact.invisionzone.com/index.php%3Fshowtopic%3D334%26view%3Dgetlastpost+tonko+astroblemehl=engl=usct=clnkcd=4 John: The Tonko Astrobleme is located in the western US. The exact coordinates are currently being witheld from public disclosure until my ongoing research is completed. This is due to the high potential for illegal and unauthorized collecting of the high value specimens of impactite, tektie shatter cones shocked quartz and comet fragments that are scattered around the crater. The size rivals the Barringer structure and age is 2025 (+/- 25) years. Sincerely, Johnny Tonko __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Re:New Impact Crater
Hi, In all fairness, I should point out that Johnny stops using commas in his list after the first item, so he probably meant: impactite, tekti[t]e[s], shatter cones, shocked quartz, and comet fragments as the elements in his list. The pond looks to me to be no more than 1500 feet across, but I could be off by a factor of two if the trees are bigger. The wrinkles could be wind wrinkles or frost heave. It's got to be the least promising site I've seen in a while. Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: JKGwilliam [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 5:53 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Re:New Impact Crater On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 15:19:54 -0700, you wrote: There is no separate write up on the crater other than the documentaion naming it Tonko Astrobleme to honor me as the discoverer. Digging through Google for mentions of the Tonko Astrobleme answers the question posed earlier as to wherther or not Tonko had heard of shatter cones (or at least tektie shatter cones). From a googlecache entry from your former forum: http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:0elXYxFNLR4J:www.meteoriteimpact.invisionzone.com/index.php%3Fshowtopic%3D334%26view%3Dgetlastpost+tonko+astroblemehl=engl=usct=clnkcd=4 John: The Tonko Astrobleme is located in the western US. The exact coordinates are currently being witheld from public disclosure until my ongoing research is completed. This is due to the high potential for illegal and unauthorized collecting of the high value specimens of impactite, tektie shatter cones shocked quartz and comet fragments that are scattered around the crater. The size rivals the Barringer structure and age is 2025 (+/- 25) years. Sincerely, Johnny Tonko __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NEW PLANETARY NAMES
Hi, All, If the new system passes the vote, we've got some naming to do! Larry Lebofsky wrote (off-list): We need another female planet (not sure Xena counts). There is one glaringly obvious classical divinity name for 2003UB313 -- ERIS, the Greek goddess of DISCORD! She started the Trojan War and apparently precipitated a debate about the definition of planet, too. Is that too here-and-now? Want more choices? For your reference, I have stolen, in broad daylight, from the Wikipedia, a list of female divinities, arranged by culture (list below). I have omitted all names where the sex of the divinity is not specified nor known (by me). Some of these names are poor choices just because of the name itself. Any former public schoolteacher could tell you that Tefnut, goddess of order, justice, time, Heaven and Hell and weather will be instantly transformed into Tuff Nut. Many Classical Greek and Roman names have already been used for minor planets, I mean, Small Solar System Bodies. I haven't edited them out; you have to check. There are practical issues, like picking a name no one can pronounce (who picked QUAOAR?). I'd leave the Aztec CHALCHIUHTLICUE alone if I were you. There's a politics of culture at work. There's some nice Japanese names, but why would Michael Brown of Alabama propose a Japanese name? Someday, the Japanese will find a nice round TBO and want to use them. Same goes for lots of cultures and nations and religions. India should go into the business of looking for planets; they don't lack names. The tradition is for Classical Greek and Roman names, anyway, unless you want to prove how multi-cultural you are (Quaoar, Sedna). Some cultures may not want their names used for this purpose. The name of a flowering spring goddess like EOSTRE (Anglo-Saxon) isn't really right for 2003UB313, ya know? (It's pronounced Easter which is where the name came from.) MORRIGAN (Celtic) would be nice and gloomy. We have to have gloomy names because its outer system, and the committee would presumably smile on names related to the divinities of the Dead. The Norse goddess HEL hasn't been taken, has it? I like NEPHTHYS, mother of Anubis, the Guide of the Dead (pronounced NEF-THIS). Anubis is an analog to Pluto, so that fits. Then, there's the Phoenician TANIT. I hope the IAU realizes that in a media-driven world, the longer people keep calling 2003UB313 Xena, the harder it will be to switch them to a new name. If they're not reasonably quick, people will be calling it Xena for years afterward. Moreover, the Warrior Princess image is likely to influence the choice by flavoring it in favor of a martial image, like SEKHMET, the Egyptian goddess of War. The Greek goddess of Fortune, TYCHE, is associated with the nether regions. And HEKATE, the Greek goddess of witchcraft, crossroads, and the harvest moon would do nicely, as well. Anybody got ideas? For anyone who wants to browse or check an idea for a name, I recommend The Godchecker, with 2850 listed gods: http://www.godchecker.com/ Sterling K. Webb (list follows) - [edit]Anglo-Saxon Eostre, goddess of spring Fríge, counterpart to the Norse Frigg. Friday comes from her name. [edit]Aztec Chalchiuhtlicue - goddess of lakes and streams Coyolxauhqui - goddess of the moon Ilamatecuhtli- goddess of the earth, death, and the milky way. Mayahuel - goddess of maguey Ometeotl - god/goddess of heaven Toci - goddess of earth Xochiquetzal - love goddess [edit]Celtic Brigit Ceridwen Epona Morrigan [edit]Chinese Malaysian Kwan Yin Ma originated from Sanskrit Avalokiteśvara (Chinese : 觀世音), commonly known as the Goddess of Mercy. Matsu (goddess) (Chinese : 媽祖) is the Taoist Goddess of the Sea who protects fishermen and sailors. [edit]Egyptian (Pharaonic) Bast, Goddess of Cats Heget Goddess of Childbirth Isis, Goddess of Magic, sister of Nephthys Menhit, Goddess of war Neith, goddess of war, then great mother goddess Nephthys, mother of Anubis, Guide of the Dead, originally god of the dead Nut, goddess of heaven and the sky Sekhmet, goddess of war and battles Taweret, Goddess of pregnant women and protecter at childbirth Tefnut, goddess of order, justice, time, Heaven and Hell and weather [edit]Etruscan Alpan, a goddess of love but usually identified with Persephone, not Aphrodite Menrva, equivalent to the Greek Athene Turan (goddess), the goddess usually identified with Aphrodite Uni, equivalent of Hera [edit]Finnish Loviatar, One of Tuoni's daughters. Goddess of pain. Mielikki, Tapio's wife Pekko (or Peko), god or goddess (the actual gender is obscure) of fields and agriculture Rauni, Ukko's wife, goddess of fertility Tuonetar, The wife of Tuoni [edit]Ancient Greek Aphrodite - goddess of love and beauty, one of the twelve Olympians Artemis - goddess of the hunt, the moon, virginity, and childbirth, twin sister of Apollo,
Re: [meteorite-list] NEW PLANETARY NAMES
Sterling, et. al., I know you're looking for a female name, but if we're going to have additional planets to contend with, I think we need a planet named Bob. Dave - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 9:10 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] NEW PLANETARY NAMES Hi, All, If the new system passes the vote, we've got some naming to do! Larry Lebofsky wrote (off-list): We need another female planet (not sure Xena counts). There is one glaringly obvious classical divinity name for 2003UB313 -- ERIS, the Greek goddess of DISCORD! She started the Trojan War and apparently precipitated a debate about the definition of planet, too. Is that too here-and-now? Want more choices? For your reference, I have stolen, in broad daylight, from the Wikipedia, a list of female divinities, arranged by culture (list below). I have omitted all names where the sex of the divinity is not specified nor known (by me). Some of these names are poor choices just because of the name itself. Any former public schoolteacher could tell you that Tefnut, goddess of order, justice, time, Heaven and Hell and weather will be instantly transformed into Tuff Nut. Many Classical Greek and Roman names have already been used for minor planets, I mean, Small Solar System Bodies. I haven't edited them out; you have to check. There are practical issues, like picking a name no one can pronounce (who picked QUAOAR?). I'd leave the Aztec CHALCHIUHTLICUE alone if I were you. There's a politics of culture at work. There's some nice Japanese names, but why would Michael Brown of Alabama propose a Japanese name? Someday, the Japanese will find a nice round TBO and want to use them. Same goes for lots of cultures and nations and religions. India should go into the business of looking for planets; they don't lack names. The tradition is for Classical Greek and Roman names, anyway, unless you want to prove how multi-cultural you are (Quaoar, Sedna). Some cultures may not want their names used for this purpose. The name of a flowering spring goddess like EOSTRE (Anglo-Saxon) isn't really right for 2003UB313, ya know? (It's pronounced Easter which is where the name came from.) MORRIGAN (Celtic) would be nice and gloomy. We have to have gloomy names because its outer system, and the committee would presumably smile on names related to the divinities of the Dead. The Norse goddess HEL hasn't been taken, has it? I like NEPHTHYS, mother of Anubis, the Guide of the Dead (pronounced NEF-THIS). Anubis is an analog to Pluto, so that fits. Then, there's the Phoenician TANIT. I hope the IAU realizes that in a media-driven world, the longer people keep calling 2003UB313 Xena, the harder it will be to switch them to a new name. If they're not reasonably quick, people will be calling it Xena for years afterward. Moreover, the Warrior Princess image is likely to influence the choice by flavoring it in favor of a martial image, like SEKHMET, the Egyptian goddess of War. The Greek goddess of Fortune, TYCHE, is associated with the nether regions. And HEKATE, the Greek goddess of witchcraft, crossroads, and the harvest moon would do nicely, as well. Anybody got ideas? For anyone who wants to browse or check an idea for a name, I recommend The Godchecker, with 2850 listed gods: http://www.godchecker.com/ Sterling K. Webb (list follows) - [edit]Anglo-Saxon Eostre, goddess of spring Fríge, counterpart to the Norse Frigg. Friday comes from her name. [edit]Aztec Chalchiuhtlicue - goddess of lakes and streams Coyolxauhqui - goddess of the moon Ilamatecuhtli- goddess of the earth, death, and the milky way. Mayahuel - goddess of maguey Ometeotl - god/goddess of heaven Toci - goddess of earth Xochiquetzal - love goddess [edit]Celtic Brigit Ceridwen Epona Morrigan [edit]Chinese Malaysian Kwan Yin Ma originated from Sanskrit Avalokiteśvara (Chinese : 觀世音), commonly known as the Goddess of Mercy. Matsu (goddess) (Chinese : 媽祖) is the Taoist Goddess of the Sea who protects fishermen and sailors. [edit]Egyptian (Pharaonic) Bast, Goddess of Cats Heget Goddess of Childbirth Isis, Goddess of Magic, sister of Nephthys Menhit, Goddess of war Neith, goddess of war, then great mother goddess Nephthys, mother of Anubis, Guide of the Dead, originally god of the dead Nut, goddess of heaven and the sky Sekhmet, goddess of war and battles Taweret, Goddess of pregnant women and protecter at childbirth Tefnut, goddess of order, justice, time, Heaven and Hell and weather [edit]Etruscan Alpan, a goddess of love but usually identified with Persephone, not Aphrodite Menrva, equivalent to the Greek Athene Turan (goddess), the
Re: [meteorite-list] NEW PLANETARY NAMES
Oh... Why name the planets after a god/godess? What's wrong with Bernhard, Mary, Ann, Richard, Mike, etc. etc. Dave - Original Message - From: Dave Carothers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 10:37 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] NEW PLANETARY NAMES Sterling, et. al., I know you're looking for a female name, but if we're going to have additional planets to contend with, I think we need a planet named Bob. Dave - Original Message - From: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 9:10 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] NEW PLANETARY NAMES Hi, All, If the new system passes the vote, we've got some naming to do! Larry Lebofsky wrote (off-list): We need another female planet (not sure Xena counts). There is one glaringly obvious classical divinity name for 2003UB313 -- ERIS, the Greek goddess of DISCORD! She started the Trojan War and apparently precipitated a debate about the definition of planet, too. Is that too here-and-now? Want more choices? For your reference, I have stolen, in broad daylight, from the Wikipedia, a list of female divinities, arranged by culture (list below). I have omitted all names where the sex of the divinity is not specified nor known (by me). Some of these names are poor choices just because of the name itself. Any former public schoolteacher could tell you that Tefnut, goddess of order, justice, time, Heaven and Hell and weather will be instantly transformed into Tuff Nut. Many Classical Greek and Roman names have already been used for minor planets, I mean, Small Solar System Bodies. I haven't edited them out; you have to check. There are practical issues, like picking a name no one can pronounce (who picked QUAOAR?). I'd leave the Aztec CHALCHIUHTLICUE alone if I were you. There's a politics of culture at work. There's some nice Japanese names, but why would Michael Brown of Alabama propose a Japanese name? Someday, the Japanese will find a nice round TBO and want to use them. Same goes for lots of cultures and nations and religions. India should go into the business of looking for planets; they don't lack names. The tradition is for Classical Greek and Roman names, anyway, unless you want to prove how multi-cultural you are (Quaoar, Sedna). Some cultures may not want their names used for this purpose. The name of a flowering spring goddess like EOSTRE (Anglo-Saxon) isn't really right for 2003UB313, ya know? (It's pronounced Easter which is where the name came from.) MORRIGAN (Celtic) would be nice and gloomy. We have to have gloomy names because its outer system, and the committee would presumably smile on names related to the divinities of the Dead. The Norse goddess HEL hasn't been taken, has it? I like NEPHTHYS, mother of Anubis, the Guide of the Dead (pronounced NEF-THIS). Anubis is an analog to Pluto, so that fits. Then, there's the Phoenician TANIT. I hope the IAU realizes that in a media-driven world, the longer people keep calling 2003UB313 Xena, the harder it will be to switch them to a new name. If they're not reasonably quick, people will be calling it Xena for years afterward. Moreover, the Warrior Princess image is likely to influence the choice by flavoring it in favor of a martial image, like SEKHMET, the Egyptian goddess of War. The Greek goddess of Fortune, TYCHE, is associated with the nether regions. And HEKATE, the Greek goddess of witchcraft, crossroads, and the harvest moon would do nicely, as well. Anybody got ideas? For anyone who wants to browse or check an idea for a name, I recommend The Godchecker, with 2850 listed gods: http://www.godchecker.com/ Sterling K. Webb (list follows) - [edit]Anglo-Saxon Eostre, goddess of spring Fríge, counterpart to the Norse Frigg. Friday comes from her name. [edit]Aztec Chalchiuhtlicue - goddess of lakes and streams Coyolxauhqui - goddess of the moon Ilamatecuhtli- goddess of the earth, death, and the milky way. Mayahuel - goddess of maguey Ometeotl - god/goddess of heaven Toci - goddess of earth Xochiquetzal - love goddess [edit]Celtic Brigit Ceridwen Epona Morrigan [edit]Chinese Malaysian Kwan Yin Ma originated from Sanskrit Avalokiteśvara (Chinese : 觀世音), commonly known as the Goddess of Mercy. Matsu (goddess) (Chinese : 媽祖) is the Taoist Goddess of the Sea who protects fishermen and sailors. [edit]Egyptian (Pharaonic) Bast, Goddess of Cats Heget Goddess of Childbirth Isis, Goddess of Magic, sister of Nephthys Menhit,
Re: Re: [meteorite-list] NEW PLANETARY NAMES
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 22:59:55 -0400, you wrote: Oh... Why name the planets after a god/godess? What's wrong with Bernhard, Mary, Ann, Richard, Mike, etc. etc. Tradition, I suppose. But if they name too many objects, they may have to start looking for other sources. Like maybe naming them from characters in popular Science Fiction franchises. So how about planets Aunt Beru, Captain Janeway, and Hot Blonde Cylon Chick? __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Task force to monitor asteroid threats
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14395543/ Task force to monitor asteroid threats Astronomers focus on worries about impact catastrophe The Associated Press Updated: 3:14 p.m. ET Aug 17, 2006 PRAGUE, Czech Republic - Theyre out there, hidden among a haze of stars killer asteroids. Now the worlds astronomers are keeping a wary eye to the skies for giant objects on a collision course with Earth. Experts say there are about 1,100 comets and asteroids in the inner solar system that are at least a half-mile (1 kilometer) across, and that any one of them could unleash a global cataclysm capable of killing millions in a single blinding flash. On Thursday, the International Astronomical Union said it has set up a special task force to sharpen its focus on threats from such near-Earth objects. The goal is to discover these killer asteroids before they discover us, said Nick Kaiser of the University of Hawaiis Institute for Astronomy, which hopes to train four powerful digital cameras on the heavens to watch for would-be intruders. There are no asteroid busters to stop one right now, but scientists believe that one day a defense could be devised, such as using spacecraft to divert a killer comet. Congress wants defense plan Congress has asked NASA for a plan to comb the cosmos for even smaller, more distant objects, including asteroids just 1½ football fields (150 meters) across. The space agency is to catalog their position, speed and course by 2020. Already, there are 103 objects on an impact risk watch list. Scientists warn there are as many as 100,000 of these smaller heavenly bodies with the potential to take out entire cities or set off a tsunami like the killer wave that swept through the Indian Ocean in December 2004. Earths craters bear silent witness to what can happen even when a smallish asteroid slams home. In 1908, one struck remote central Siberia, unleashing as much energy as a 15-megaton nuclear bomb. Fortunately, it wiped out 60 million trees, not people. Had it hit a populated area, the loss of life would have been staggering. Good news: Risk reduced Theres some recent good news too: Earths most pressing threat the asteroid 99942 Apophis appears to have eased. Scientists initially gave it a 1-in-5,500 chance of hitting the planet in 2036, with enough power to wipe out the New York City metro area. But experts said Thursday the latest observations suggest those odds have dwindled to 1-in-30,000. They wont be sure until it makes an earlier pass in 2029, when its expected to come within 18,640 miles (30,000 kilometers) of Earth. If that sounds comfortably distant, consider this: Its closer than many commercial satellites and a good deal nearer than the moon. Although close encounters are unnerving, they give astronomers a unique opportunity to get a better glimpse of asteroids and comets the leftover building materials of the universe and gain a better understanding of the origins of the solar system. Scientists say expanding their database of the objects crowding Earths neighborhood could help produce a permanent warning system like those that now monitor the Pacific for tsunamis or keep tabs on volcanoes and earthquake zones. Give the world a decade or so of lead time to deal with a specific threat, they say, and it stands a chance of getting out of harms way perhaps by sending up a spacecraft to nudge an asteroid off-course. Right now, unfortunately, there are no asteroid busters or hot lines. Who ya gonna call? said Andrea Milani Comparetti, a professor of mathematics at Italys University of Pisa. Worrying about a scare To be on the safe side, astronomers trying to determine the odds of one hitting Earth work with computer models that surround it with thousands of virtual asteroids. Experts then map out the likely orbits for each one and factor those in to come up with the probability of an impact. But widening the search for threatening objects creates a problem: Discoveries could become commonplace, either creating unnecessary panic and confusion or lulling the public into a false sense of complacency. Were now going to be finding such objects once a week instead of once a year, said David Morrison, a NASA scientist who will chair the new task force. Only in Hollywood do asteroids arbitrarily change orbits, he said. But there is great potential for misunderstanding. Dealing with probability and risk is a problem for all of us, whether were dealing with asteroid impacts or terrorist attacks. Bottom line: Mankind may not be able to dodge every cosmic bullet. Its through collisions that planets are born, said Giovanni Valsecchi of Italys National Institute of Astrophysics. And its through collisions that planets die. © 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. __ Meteorite-list mailing list
[meteorite-list] AD- ebay auction Lamb shape meteorite from the outback of Kazakstan
Dear meteorite list members, please pay your kind attention: Lamb shape meteorite from the outback of Kazakstan. Listing URL: http://cm.ebay.com/cm/ck/1065-29296-2357-0?uid=337247812site=0ver=LCA080805item=160020219223lk=URL Thank you, hope you find this interesting! Best Regards Victor __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] AD- ebay auction Lamb shape meteorite from the outback of Kazakstan
On Thu, 17 Aug 2006 21:36:32 -0700 (PDT), you wrote: Lamb shape meteorite from the outback of Kazakstan. Listing URL: http://cm.ebay.com/cm/ck/1065-29296-2357-0?uid=337247812site=0ver=LCA080805item=160020219223lk=URL Is this a bd auction? __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] AD- ebay auction Lamb shape meteorite from theoutback of Kazakstan
Lamb shape meteorite from the outback of Kazakstan. Looks more like a chunk of iron slag hastily put on sale to me. Paul Barford __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
