Re: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My Caredition)
Hello all, Dave, In response to your comment. - If you own the property, you have no obligation to explain why you don't want someone on your property and you sure don't have to justify or validate any reason if you decide to provide more than a NO! answer. ..I agree that conversation is useful, but can you also see that pushing the envelope and pressing soneone for a reason and not to say that you would actually do this, but potentially argue the validity of the reason would surely sour any land owner... - I agree you should respect the landowners wishes, but should everyone take the first NO for the final answer and walk away out of respect for their decision and leave it at that? If that were the case half the businesses in the world would fail. It's not just about respect, this is a matter of conscience and if it matters to you so much then simply don't ask the question. To others it isn't as BIG an issue to ask questions of anyone regardless of stature. No disrespect intended. Just my opinion. Jason, in response to your comment. ..If you somehow managed to spend $10,000 on your trip, well - you would only need to sell 150 grams of material at your price of $65/g to cover your costs. You've asked some pretty 'off' questions, so here are a few of my own - how much of your stock have you sold, and how much money have you made?.. I would say you are a smart kid and I'm impressed with your enthusiasm. However I disagree with your ideas on business. It's not just about simply recovering costs. It's about making a living and growing the business at the same time. And if I may be so bold and use the word profit, which seems to be the bad word in this whole ethics debate. If you ever had to live on your own and run a business at the same time, and support a family, mortgage, car payments, groceries, and personal bills you would understand the importance of being able to not only cover your bills but your business expenses as well as grow your company. To grow your business a good profit must be made. In business to charge the highest price a market will bear is directly related to supply and demand. If a product is plentiful that products price is naturally lower than if the product in question were less available. Even so, if the market will support $100/g for a particular product that price is a fair market price. Don't you have an X-Box 360? You remember how high the cost was when they first came out? Around $500+ if I remember right. Now you can buy them for around $200 a decrease of 60%. That's a fair market price and a good example of a market finding a natural balance right? My point is when a product is first available that products price regardless of what it is will be determined by demand and what people are willing to pay to get it. How many parents stood in line at the local Wal-Mart and Best Buy to purchase the first release of the latest toy whether it be an X-Box, PS3, Plasma TV, or Tickle Me Elmo. It's reasonable to expect anyone to charge what they feel is a fair price. It's again is about conscience and perceived fairness. Business is about profit whether you agree or not. You grow a business by reinvesting a portion of that profit back into a company, so you need to have a larger profit to grow a smaller business. Larger companies needn't have larger profits because they compensate the lower retail price with buying power that results in lower wholesale costs to them. Business ethics and meteorite hunting ethics go hand in hand when a dealer is in the field. He must be respectful of the landowners yet pay a fair market price. But don't forget he must be able to afford that price as well. $10/g might be high for someone where $20/g might be a good price for others. If the supplier (landowner) believes he or she received a good price and was treated fairly then that's good for business. If you paid a low enough price for any given product to in turn sell at a higher price and make a good profit isn't that good business? I wonder what the margins were for the X-Box. Costs for businesses are higher at the opening bell. At the end of the day the free market will find a balance based on supply and demand. I ask anyone to fairly and honestly answer this question. If you have investments in the market (401K etc.) wouldn't you want those investments to give you the highest return possible? You don't have to be a businessperson to understand the concept of profit. When investing in stocks, bonds, CDs, funds, your annual % yield is your profit. If you have a problem with higher prices don't pay them and wait for the market to stabilize. It always does. As for the ethics of hunting on private land. Check local laws. And never hunt on private land without permission. I
Re: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My Caredition)
Has anyone read Inherit The Wind??? What if this is something along the lines of everyone in the town hating meteorite hunters becuase of their hate for evolution...? [Erik] Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 23:23:49 -0700 From: e...@meteoritesusa.com To: carother...@gmail.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My Caredition) Hello all, Dave, In response to your comment. - If you own the property, you have no obligation to explain why you don't want someone on your property and you sure don't have to justify or validate any reason if you decide to provide more than a NO! answer. ..I agree that conversation is useful, but can you also see that pushing the envelope and pressing soneone for a reason and not to say that you would actually do this, but potentially argue the validity of the reason would surely sour any land owner... - I agree you should respect the landowners wishes, but should everyone take the first NO for the final answer and walk away out of respect for their decision and leave it at that? If that were the case half the businesses in the world would fail. It's not just about respect, this is a matter of conscience and if it matters to you so much then simply don't ask the question. To others it isn't as BIG an issue to ask questions of anyone regardless of stature. No disrespect intended. Just my opinion. Jason, in response to your comment. ..If you somehow managed to spend $10,000 on your trip, well - you would only need to sell 150 grams of material at your price of $65/g to cover your costs. You've asked some pretty 'off' questions, so here are a few of my own - how much of your stock have you sold, and how much money have you made?.. I would say you are a smart kid and I'm impressed with your enthusiasm. However I disagree with your ideas on business. It's not just about simply recovering costs. It's about making a living and growing the business at the same time. And if I may be so bold and use the word profit, which seems to be the bad word in this whole ethics debate. If you ever had to live on your own and run a business at the same time, and support a family, mortgage, car payments, groceries, and personal bills you would understand the importance of being able to not only cover your bills but your business expenses as well as grow your company. To grow your business a good profit must be made. In business to charge the highest price a market will bear is directly related to supply and demand. If a product is plentiful that products price is naturally lower than if the product in question were less available. Even so, if the market will support $100/g for a particular product that price is a fair market price. Don't you have an X-Box 360? You remember how high the cost was when they first came out? Around $500+ if I remember right. Now you can buy them for around $200 a decrease of 60%. That's a fair market price and a good example of a market finding a natural balance right? My point is when a product is first available that products price regardless of what it is will be determined by demand and what people are willing to pay to get it. How many parents stood in line at the local Wal-Mart and Best Buy to purchase the first release of the latest toy whether it be an X-Box, PS3, Plasma TV, or Tickle Me Elmo. It's reasonable to expect anyone to charge what they feel is a fair price. It's again is about conscience and perceived fairness. Business is about profit whether you agree or not. You grow a business by reinvesting a portion of that profit back into a company, so you need to have a larger profit to grow a smaller business. Larger companies needn't have larger profits because they compensate the lower retail price with buying power that results in lower wholesale costs to them. Business ethics and meteorite hunting ethics go hand in hand when a dealer is in the field. He must be respectful of the landowners yet pay a fair market price. But don't forget he must be able to afford that price as well. $10/g might be high for someone where $20/g might be a good price for others. If the supplier (landowner) believes he or she received a good price and was treated fairly then that's good for business. If you paid a low enough price for any given product to in turn sell at a higher price and make a good profit isn't that good business? I wonder what the margins were for the X-Box. Costs for businesses are higher at the opening bell. At the end of the day the free market will find a balance based on supply and demand. I ask anyone to fairly and honestly answer this question. If you have investments in the market (401K etc.) wouldn't you want those
Re: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My Caredition)
Dave, This reminds me of when I was in Park Forest, actually in Steger, IL, 6 years ago this week, where a local man had his rear window of his car knocked out by a meteorite. I asked him if he wanted to sell the meteorite, and he made it plain to me that he would not sell it for ANY price. Taking him at his word, I dropped the subject and I then asked him if he might be interested in selling the shattered broken glass from the impact? To which he said he very well might, and then asked what I would offer him for it. I delayed in giving him an answer on the spot, and returned to talk with him a couple of days later, possibly to close the deal for the glass. When I got back with him, he informed me that he had just sold the meteorite that day. When I asked for how much, it was something in the neighborhood of $8 a gram, maybe $350 for the 40 ish gram stone. Trying not to look too upset, I reminded the guy that he had told me that he would not be willing to sell it for ANY price. He said Yea, but I had no idea anyone would pay THAT much for it, I just couldn't say no he told me. I was too sick to let him know I would have gladly paid him 4 times that much, maybe even more. But it was my lesson to learn that just because some people say no it doesn't always mean no! Sometimes they fib to start the negotiations at a better spot. Sometimes they do in fact mean No as was the case with me and the Caldwell, Kansas stone. Sometimes they just don't know what they are saying no to! Should I have risked offending the man and had pressed him with a $1,000 offer for his rock? Or at least a $400 offer??? Steve Arnold Arkansas *** In a message dated 4/2/2009 11:36:57 P.M. Central Daylight Time, carother...@gmail.com writes: Steve, You asked: So why do you still think that I think he OWES me an explanation? As I stated in my last post, it comes from comments like Often times, people have very valid objections. Other times, they don't. or Sometimes they will say they don't want you to hunt because 23 years ago, a fisherman left a gate open and some cows got out. But usually that isn't a valid reason for never letting anyone ever come on their land again. Another comment you made regarding the issue of asking to search a property was: Granted, people lie. Well, maybe they do, but the point is, so what? It's their property and they don't need to explain past the answer... No. When you say things like the above, in the context of trying to get permission to search a property from a land owner, what is being implied is that 1) the person owes you an explanation and 2) if the person does give you a reason, that reason must somehow be validated as being reasonable by you. I apologize if I'm reading way too much into this, but I've run into a similar situation and maybe that's why I'm sensitive to this. I've had people wanting to buy property from me and they just won't take a simple NO! for an answer. They too want to ask the question Why won't you sell it to us. I'm sorry, but I don't owe them or anyone else an explanation. Even if I did provide an explanation, what then? They try to tell me why I'm wrong and should sell to them. That to me is being arrogant. One last item. I did not, nor would I ever say or imply that you were rude or that your conversations with land owners are contentious or anything like that. From all accounts, you have a stellar (no pun intended) rep. I thank you too for your courteous replies. Regards, Dave - Original Message - From: meteorh...@aol.com To: carother...@gmail.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 10:37 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My Caredition) Dave, You said: I thank you for the detailed explanation, but I still have issue with your idea that a land owner would owe you an explanation other than No when asked to search their property. When I clearly stated in my last post: Does he have an obligation to tell me why he said no? Of course not. And did I even imply that he was obligated to? But if you don't ask, often you don't get an answer. * So why do you still think that I think he OWES me an explanation? I don't think he owes me to let me hunt on his land, but I still ask. He didn't owe me an explanation, but I still asked for one. Besides, if someone owes you something, you demand, you don't ask. I didn't demand anything, I just asked. I wasn't rude. He wasn't rude. He didn't kick me off his driveway. He didn't even ask me to leave nor did he end the conversation. We had a short, 3 minute talk, then I left when it was evident he didn't care if meteorites would be lost. Maybe if I offered him $10,000 in exchange for hunting, he might have become interested. Then again, if he had a $500,000 crop out
Re: [meteorite-list] Some thoughts on Hunting in West, Texas and private property....
Hi, Mike and List, Would it be fair to say that Mr Enders was making ~ $3,500.00 a day; $24,500.00 a week from hunters? I think he may be taking this summer off! CHeers, Pete From: mikew...@gilanet.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 21:13:55 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Some thoughts on Hunting in West, Texas and private property Hello All, You can simply assume that what does not belong to you, belongs to someone else. Private property is obvious. If it is not yours, it belongs to someone else. Getting permission to hunt meteorites on other people's property is an absolute must. Especially, in places like West, Texas. When my son and I first arrived in West, Texas, the first thing we saw was Mike Farmer coming out of one of the local bakery shops. We stopped and said hello. I asked him if he had found any stones and if I could see one. He showed me a real pretty ~30 gram one. We all went in and had coffee and kolanches and talked some. I then told my son it was time to go find this strewn field. My son Chris, said why don't you just ask Mike where they are finding stones. I said we could, but I want you to see how this is done from scratch, besides we might find something out that they don't already know. So we headed out blindly and we started to knock on doors and talk to people. It did not take too long (about 6 hours) to start to understand the lay of the land and where some of the strewn field might be located. We came upon Mr. Enders farm and saw him and his son driving over to their barn. His place really looked good for hunting and we really wanted to talk to him. I went up to his truck and introduced myself to him and told him what I wanted. At first, he was not wanting to talk to me and said he was not wanting any more Meteorite People on his property. He was afraid of all of these strangers roaming his property and afraid on being sued. We talked for a while and I suggested that maybe my son and I could hunt for the day and that we were really excited to be hunting meteorites and would appreciate the chance to hunt his land. I told him that to me it was worth $50.00 per day per person to hunt. I would give him a $100.00 up front for my son and me, for today's hunting. He asked me what these things were worth and for the next several hours we talked about meteorites, hunting, places I have been, what they are worth, why they are important, etc, etc. I told him that it was way too early to know what this particular fall was going to be worth, but probably more than $20.00 per gram. I told him I would pay between $3.00 to $5.00 per gram and $100.00 per day for Chris and I to hunt. He accepted. He told me he let some other folks hunt for a day, but they offered him only a $1.00 per gram and no base fee for the day. I told him that was way to low. I said, this is your land and just to be able to hunt meteorites on it is worth more than that to me. He asked me if I wanted him to keep the other hunters off his place since I was leasing or paying for hunting rights. I asked him how much land he had and he said 500 acres! I said there was no way my son and I could hunt all that land. I told him a lot of these hunters came from far away and that they would appreciate a place to hunt that had good potential. I told him to keep to the base fee of $50.00 per person and around $3.00 per gram, but he should maybe be flexible with all and do a deal with each person as he saw fit. He thanked me for letting him know what was going on and Mr Enders gates were know open for business! Over 70 people searched his land and they keep searching and finding stones. Over 100 individuals have come off his land and his place is huge and there is no doubt more there on his property. On days when my son and I did pretty good I always gave him a bonus above our agreed amounts. We had fun and we paid to play. Also, Mr Enders knows my ebay store and knows what I get for my West pieces, and regardless I am welcome back anytime! Mr Enders called me the other day and thanked me. He said he has done real well and appreciated how I helped him use his ranch to make money in these hard times. Some things * Always get permission to hunt on private property. * In order to get permission, be polite, kind, respectful and take time to do a little educating about meteorites. * There are dollars $$$ involved with meteorites, so maybe share some of this in whatever way works with the private land owners. * $25.00, $50.00 or $100.00 per day to hunt potentially meteorite laden ground is a small price to pay if you love hunting. Yes, of course, if you can do it for free and the owner of the land does not care about a fee, well I guess that is fine too. * Work out some understanding about value and what you might be able to pay. Believe me, you would hate to
Re: [meteorite-list] Some thoughts on Hunting in West, Texas and private property....
Disregard that - just got home from midnight shift - numbers all wrong - isn't 70 people a day hunting. Duh! From: rsvp...@hotmail.com To: mikew...@gilanet.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 04:09:49 -0400 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Some thoughts on Hunting in West, Texas and private property Hi, Mike and List, Would it be fair to say that Mr Enders was making ~ $3,500.00 a day; $24,500.00 a week from hunters? I think he may be taking this summer off! CHeers, Pete From: mikew...@gilanet.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 21:13:55 -0700 Subject: [meteorite-list] Some thoughts on Hunting in West, Texas and private property Hello All, You can simply assume that what does not belong to you, belongs to someone else. Private property is obvious. If it is not yours, it belongs to someone else. Getting permission to hunt meteorites on other people's property is an absolute must. Especially, in places like West, Texas. When my son and I first arrived in West, Texas, the first thing we saw was Mike Farmer coming out of one of the local bakery shops. We stopped and said hello. I asked him if he had found any stones and if I could see one. He showed me a real pretty ~30 gram one. We all went in and had coffee and kolanches and talked some. I then told my son it was time to go find this strewn field. My son Chris, said why don't you just ask Mike where they are finding stones. I said we could, but I want you to see how this is done from scratch, besides we might find something out that they don't already know. So we headed out blindly and we started to knock on doors and talk to people. It did not take too long (about 6 hours) to start to understand the lay of the land and where some of the strewn field might be located. We came upon Mr. Enders farm and saw him and his son driving over to their barn. His place really looked good for hunting and we really wanted to talk to him. I went up to his truck and introduced myself to him and told him what I wanted. At first, he was not wanting to talk to me and said he was not wanting any more Meteorite People on his property. He was afraid of all of these strangers roaming his property and afraid on being sued. We talked for a while and I suggested that maybe my son and I could hunt for the day and that we were really excited to be hunting meteorites and would appreciate the chance to hunt his land. I told him that to me it was worth $50.00 per day per person to hunt. I would give him a $100.00 up front for my son and me, for today's hunting. He asked me what these things were worth and for the next several hours we talked about meteorites, hunting, places I have been, what they are worth, why they are important, etc, etc. I told him that it was way too early to know what this particular fall was going to be worth, but probably more than $20.00 per gram. I told him I would pay between $3.00 to $5.00 per gram and $100.00 per day for Chris and I to hunt. He accepted. He told me he let some other folks hunt for a day, but they offered him only a $1.00 per gram and no base fee for the day. I told him that was way to low. I said, this is your land and just to be able to hunt meteorites on it is worth more than that to me. He asked me if I wanted him to keep the other hunters off his place since I was leasing or paying for hunting rights. I asked him how much land he had and he said 500 acres! I said there was no way my son and I could hunt all that land. I told him a lot of these hunters came from far away and that they would appreciate a place to hunt that had good potential. I told him to keep to the base fee of $50.00 per person and around $3.00 per gram, but he should maybe be flexible with all and do a deal with each person as he saw fit. He thanked me for letting him know what was going on and Mr Enders gates were know open for business! Over 70 people searched his land and they keep searching and finding stones. Over 100 individuals have come off his land and his place is huge and there is no doubt more there on his property. On days when my son and I did pretty good I always gave him a bonus above our agreed amounts. We had fun and we paid to play. Also, Mr Enders knows my ebay store and knows what I get for my West pieces, and regardless I am welcome back anytime! Mr Enders called me the other day and thanked me. He said he has done real well and appreciated how I helped him use his ranch to make money in these hard times. Some things * Always get permission to hunt on private property. * In order to get permission, be polite, kind, respectful and take time to do a little educating about meteorites. * There are dollars $$$ involved with meteorites, so maybe share some of this in whatever way works with the
[meteorite-list] Fwd: Ad: ebay Auctions ending in a few hours. Ensisheim, Mighei, Camel Donga more
Hi I have over 30 auctions ending in a few hours on ebay Some highlights: 633g ORIENTED Sikhote-Alin http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=280327423490 0.31g part slice of ENSISHEIM http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=280327442336 MIGHEI a small but nice fragment of the M of the CM meteorites http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=280327443761 A Spectacular ORIENTED CAMEL DONGA baby (5.3g) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=280327558044 239g part slice of COVERT http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=280327443761 Or just take a look a all my acutions here: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZsmfmeteoritesQQhtZ-1 thanks Eduardo __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Name Upgrade
Or as we call it over on the British and Irish Meteorite Society list, the 'BSL' or Big scary list... :) Mark -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of John.L.Cabassi Sent: 02 April 2009 15:29 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Name Upgrade G'Day List After evaluating the knowledge I had gained this week on the Meteorite List, I have come to the conclusion we desperately need an upgrade. So I propose a name change, the Meteorite List a.k.a. Met-List be named Bitch List a.k.a. Bit-List which is quite appropriate considering no one is immune to being bit. Thank you for your time. Cheers John __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify us. Email i...@ssl.gb.com. You should not copy or use this email or attachment(s) for any purpose nor disclose their contents to any other person. GENERAL STATEMENT: Southern Scientific Ltd's computer systems may be monitored and communications carried on them recorded, to secure the effective operation of the system and for other lawful purposes. Registered address Rectory Farm Rd, Sompting, Lancing, W Sussex BN15 0DP. Company No 1800317 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] US States Fed Govt Laws regarding prospecting, hiking, boondocking, stargazing, etc.
Hi Listees! I was reading with great interest the recent list posts about state laws in Arizona and Colorado regarding hunting for meteorites, bird watching, etc. I don't want some humorless officer with a crewcut and a sharp hat threatening me with jail for stargazing or boondocking, so I'd like to suggest a discussion thread dedicated solely to the laws, and not the ethics, of hunting meteorites on state and federally-owned land. I have a couple of observations and questions I'd like to share with the group and someone please correct me if I am wrong about anything here - I read that one must have a special state license or pass to use certain state lands in Arizona and Colorado - I am assuming this does not apply to pay-for-access areas like State Parks where tourists pay an entry fee and they are allowed to birdwatch and hike within the boundaries of the park. Also, what about the federal land passes that are available? If I am in a National Park in Arizona (federal land) and I have a valid federal land pass, does this mean an Arizona state officer can't hassle me on that federal land? I realize having such a pass does not entitle me to access or use state-owned lands, but am I correct in my assumption that the federal pass takes precedence over the state pass on federally-administered lands? Also, I am assuming that the possession of a state or a federal land-use permit does not grant any privileges in regards to gathering, harvesting, prospecting, or removing natural materials - including fossils, minerals, gold, meteorites, etc. I have researched the federal land use permits online and it 's pretty clear that they only grant *access* to certain areas and use of certain specific facilities instead of paying a gate fee or entry fee. It clearly states that no other rights or privileges are granted other than the few specifically mentioned in the terms of the pass/permit. In Florida, where I lived for many years, one can acquire a fossil permit from the State which grants certain prospecting and removal rights on certain State-owned lands in Florida. It only covers fossils, but it's better than a kick in the teeth. Are there any other states that have similar permits available, and are these permits available to non-residents? I'd like to know, briefly, what risks are involved with prospecting meteorites in the following well-known strewnfields : Gold Basin, Franconia, Holbrook, Glorieta, the Mojave area? It is well-known that the area around Meteor Crater (Canyon Diablo) is off-limits to meteorite prospectors - it is verboten. But, are there ANY areas in the vicinity of the crater where it is possible to legally prospect for meteorites, assuming the proper permits are in order? What about smaller private land owners - is any of the land owned by someone who will grant permission to prospect, or is every square inch of land around the Crater off-limits completely? I find it hard to imagine that an impact event of that size didn't throw some meteorites over and beyond the reach of Meteor Crater Inc, LLC and it's Subsidiaries legal team. Is there no-way a law-abiding citizen can go find a Diablo meteorite, or do I just need to get that out of my head and forget about it? What about Odessa Texas? Can one legally find meteorites there on public or private lands? Or is it another Canyon Diablo type of situation around the Odessa Crater? Brenham Kansas? Off-limits? Will the farmers look at you cross-ways and rack back the slide on their 10-gauge scattergun when you drive slowly down the road gazing longingly at the rolling fields that conceal pallasitic joy? Does any of the Brenham strewnfield extend onto public lands? Has anyone ever taken a shot in the dark and looked around Peekskill for the lost stones? There out there oxidizing away somewhere in the woods or in a lake. What about the other meteorite-laden areas of Texas? Using the NASA WordlWind plugin for the Met Soc database, it's easy to see that some areas of Texas are peppered with old finds. Do any of these areas still produce specimens, and which ones can be legally prospected (if any)? Dawn, Forestburg, Travis, Tulia, etc, etc, etc. ? I ask this endless stream of questions because very soon I will be joining the hunt and I'd like to spend some time combing these old strewnfields for finds - but I want to stay on the right side of the law. I don't want a trespassing charge and I don't want to go through what Mike and Sonny went through, if I can help it. When I travel to an area, I want to be very cognizant and respectful of not only the local laws, but the local traditions and culture. I don't want to inadvertently find myself in a sticky situation with some Wyatt Earp-wannabe sheriff or a trigger-happy landowner with dubious boundaries. Is all of this just par for the course in meteorite prospecting? Finally, one last question for the group, I have been to TreasureNet and some other places online looking
[meteorite-list] Holocene start impacts, AD
Hello everyone - Besides the NOVA special on the comet impact that ended clovis, here's some more information: 1) I posted some of the first peoples accounts of these impacts to the paleo-anthropology list: http://forum.palanth.com/index.php/topic,1093.0.html Note that the Shawnee remembered impacts south, east, north, west of the Big Bone Lick area and then three more fragments hit. But at this distance in time, detail may have been replaced by theology. 2) Ken Tankersley has found a 1 inch thick layer of impactites near Sandusky, Ohio along with the remains of blast killed mega-fuana: http://www.ourstrangeworld.net/index.php/main/article/extraterrestrial_event_affected_human_history/ 3) A possible Holocene Start Impact structure has been located in Alberta: http://www.meridianbooster.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1484183 4) Work is being done on the Carolina Bays: http://hamptonroads.com/2008/09/carolina-bays-new-evidence-points-killer-comet 5) Note the strata at this site in Venezuela: http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/taima-taima-text.html Now if someone (ahem, ahem) would like to restate some of their comments on Hibben's observations at Fairbanks, it might be nice. Early man was hit in SE Asia as well: http://researchsea.com/html/article.php/aid/3937/cid/6/research/usm_discovers_concrete_evidence_that_can_chance_the_history_of_early_man.html though exactly which homo it was is still hotly debated. Some would say homo heidelbergensis. Ahem. As always, I am currently running a special for meteorite list members on personally signed first editions of Man and Impact in the Americas, at a mere $20 plus $5 for shipping in the US, if anyone wants to contact me for a copy. good hunting, E.P. Grondine Man and Impact in the Americas PS - Sorry end for Chicago Steve. Sometimes love turns to lust. How do you define a meteorite dealer? A meteorite collector trying to afford his collection. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] [AD] New Orleans 17,6 grams Hammer
Hello Listoids Before it goes to Ebay.. 17,6 grams of the House Hammer New Orleans. Fragment. No crust !! Purchased from Blaine Reed at the Tucson show 2005. Pictures on request. Make me an offer. (no trades, sorry) Greets, Jan Bartels IMCA 9833 Holland __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD- -760gram Gao and others
Hello all Another run of no reserve auctions ending Sunday. Some large, some small, more witnessed than not. http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnakhladog Be well, Rob Wesel http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com -- We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Microtektites from Antarctica
McCall, J., 2008, Microtektites from Antarctica Geoscientist 18.8 September 2008 http://www.geolsoc.org.uk/gsl/geoscientist/geonews/page4229.html Yours, Paul H. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Crater impostor unmasked as sheep-dip
Crater impostor unmasked as sheep-dip The supposed meteorite that supposedly caused the supposed “Sirente crater” in the Abruzzi mountains did not bring down the Roman Empire after all. Ted Nield reports. Geoscientist Online 19 March 2009 http://www.geolsoc.org.uk/gsl/geoscientist/geonews/page5368.html The references given in this article are: Bondre, N 2009: Crater or not? Nature Geoscience vol. 2 March 2009 p. 166 Ormö J et al., 2002: The Sirente Crater Field, Italy. Meteorit. Planet. Sci., 37 1507-1521 http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/full/2002M%26PS...37.1507O Speranza, F et al., 2004: An anthropogenic origin of the “Sirente Crater”, Abruzzi, Italy. Meteorit. Planet. Sci., 39, 4, 635-649 http://www.earth-prints.org/handle/2122/3941 Speranza, F et al., 2009: The “Sirente crater field”, Italy, revisited. Journal of Geophysical Research. vol. 114, B03103, doi:10.1029/2008JB005759. http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2009/2008JB005759.shtml Yours, Paul H. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - April 1, 2009
MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES April 1, 2009 o Volcanic Layers Exposed in Pit http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_012310_1715 o Fans on Lobes in Argyre Region http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011477_1275 o Monitor Seasonal Changes at a South Polar Cracked and Gullied Site http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011460_0980 o Fresh Impact Crater Formed between February 2005 and July 2005 http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011425_1775 o Spider Morphology http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011420_0930 o Cone on Pavonis Mons http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011413_1790 o Cone at the Source of Athabasca Valles http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011403_1905 o Small Fan-Like Features on Perennial Cap http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_011345_0950 All of the HiRISE images are archived here: http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: March 30 - April 3, 2009
MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES March 30 - April 3, 2009 o Dunes Galore (Released 30 March 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090330a o Channels (Released 31 March 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090331a o Solar Power (Released 01 April 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090401a o Sirenum Fossae (Released 02 April 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090402a o Dunes (Released 03 April 2009) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20090403a All of the THEMIS images are archived here: http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University, Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Announcing Meteorite Men the TV Show
Dear Geoff and List Great. Info sent to friends in US. Please let us know when available in Europe. Thanks Michael B, France - Original Message - From: Notkin geok...@notkin.net To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 7:00 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Announcing Meteorite Men the TV Show Dear Listees: As a few of you already know Steve Arnold #1 and I have been working on a major new TV project for over a year. It is a one-hour special for the Science Channel: Meteorite Men. This is a significant step up from the previous TV work we've done. It is a big budget production with plenty of action, adventure and, of course, a little goofing around. I was recently in Burbank, CA to see the final cut of the show and we are thrilled with the results. Steve and I returned to the Brenham site for location filming, and also filmed at a second location which will remain confidential for the moment. In addition we shot a good segment at The Center for Meteorite Studies at ASU, Tempe with the kind assistance of Dr. Meenakshi Wadhwa and Dr. Laurence Garvie, both of whom appear in the special, as well as the famous IBeAM. There is also plenty of cool, hi-tech animation of the Asteroid Belt, a re-creation of a meteorite shower, etc. Science put out the official press release yesterday morning and you can read it here: http://www.thefutoncritic.com/news.aspx?id=20090331science01 We have our own news and info page about the show here: http://www.aerolite.org/meteoritemen And a MySpace site with additional photos here: http://www.myspace.com/meteoritemen Any of you who are MySpace users, please send us a friend request; we'd be delighted to connect with you. The world premiere of Meteorite Men is Sunday, May 10 at 9 pm Eastern, only on the Science Channel. It's been a long project, but a very rewarding one. Our production company has been fantastic to work with. They really went above and beyond the make the best adventure documentary possible, and we hope List members in the US and Canada will enjoy the show. We do not have international air dates yet, but hopefully Meteorite Men will be seen in other countries before too long. I will post further news when we have it. Thanks for reading and all the best from sunny Tucson, Geoff and Steve p.s. I know the timing is weird, but this is NOT an April Fool's joke : ) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Announcing Meteorite Men the TV Show
I would love to see this show but don't have the Science Channel. :( When this airs can someone copy this to a dvd? I'm sure others are on the same boat as I. Carl _ Rediscover Hotmail®: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Updates1_042009 __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] US States Fed Govt Laws regarding prospecting, hiking, boondocking, stargazing, etc.
Hello MikeG and List This is a great idea. When looking at Iridium measuring/testing (haha :)) I stumbled upon a French metal detector website which summarized well enough laws and regulations pertaining to hunting on private or public land in France: national, regional etc... We know that laws can be gray to some extent, but still it is a good start. PS: this should be another thread, but how come a place like the Canyon Diablo Meteor Crater site is a private enterprise ?! I know we talk about USA but still... such a place should be State or Federal property, no ?! or did I not understand properly your post Mike ? Good evening everyone Michael B, France - Original Message - From: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 4:09 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] US States Fed Govt Laws regarding prospecting,hiking, boondocking, stargazing, etc. Hi Listees! I was reading with great interest the recent list posts about state laws in Arizona and Colorado regarding hunting for meteorites, bird watching, etc. I don't want some humorless officer with a crewcut and a sharp hat threatening me with jail for stargazing or boondocking, so I'd like to suggest a discussion thread dedicated solely to the laws, and not the ethics, of hunting meteorites on state and federally-owned land. I have a couple of observations and questions I'd like to share with the group and someone please correct me if I am wrong about anything here - I read that one must have a special state license or pass to use certain state lands in Arizona and Colorado - I am assuming this does not apply to pay-for-access areas like State Parks where tourists pay an entry fee and they are allowed to birdwatch and hike within the boundaries of the park. Also, what about the federal land passes that are available? If I am in a National Park in Arizona (federal land) and I have a valid federal land pass, does this mean an Arizona state officer can't hassle me on that federal land? I realize having such a pass does not entitle me to access or use state-owned lands, but am I correct in my assumption that the federal pass takes precedence over the state pass on federally-administered lands? Also, I am assuming that the possession of a state or a federal land-use permit does not grant any privileges in regards to gathering, harvesting, prospecting, or removing natural materials - including fossils, minerals, gold, meteorites, etc. I have researched the federal land use permits online and it 's pretty clear that they only grant *access* to certain areas and use of certain specific facilities instead of paying a gate fee or entry fee. It clearly states that no other rights or privileges are granted other than the few specifically mentioned in the terms of the pass/permit. In Florida, where I lived for many years, one can acquire a fossil permit from the State which grants certain prospecting and removal rights on certain State-owned lands in Florida. It only covers fossils, but it's better than a kick in the teeth. Are there any other states that have similar permits available, and are these permits available to non-residents? I'd like to know, briefly, what risks are involved with prospecting meteorites in the following well-known strewnfields : Gold Basin, Franconia, Holbrook, Glorieta, the Mojave area? It is well-known that the area around Meteor Crater (Canyon Diablo) is off-limits to meteorite prospectors - it is verboten. But, are there ANY areas in the vicinity of the crater where it is possible to legally prospect for meteorites, assuming the proper permits are in order? What about smaller private land owners - is any of the land owned by someone who will grant permission to prospect, or is every square inch of land around the Crater off-limits completely? I find it hard to imagine that an impact event of that size didn't throw some meteorites over and beyond the reach of Meteor Crater Inc, LLC and it's Subsidiaries legal team. Is there no-way a law-abiding citizen can go find a Diablo meteorite, or do I just need to get that out of my head and forget about it? What about Odessa Texas? Can one legally find meteorites there on public or private lands? Or is it another Canyon Diablo type of situation around the Odessa Crater? Brenham Kansas? Off-limits? Will the farmers look at you cross-ways and rack back the slide on their 10-gauge scattergun when you drive slowly down the road gazing longingly at the rolling fields that conceal pallasitic joy? Does any of the Brenham strewnfield extend onto public lands? Has anyone ever taken a shot in the dark and looked around Peekskill for the lost stones? There out there oxidizing away somewhere in the woods or in a lake. What about the other meteorite-laden areas of Texas? Using the NASA WordlWind plugin for the Met Soc database, it's easy to see that some areas of Texas are
Re: [meteorite-list] Crater impostor unmasked as sheep-dip
Hi Paul and List I remember seeing a great documentary some years ago on PBS, showing most of the science technology high-tech tools accredit the (hypo)thesis that an amazing eruption of the Krakatoa volcano in Indonesia was the start of the Roman Empire demise. (sometime in the 400 AD years) A meteorite impact theory was researched and disregarded. Relating to writings held in the Vatican, polar ice cores, Carbon14 dating, tree rings, geological testing under Krakatoa's nearby waters etc... ... 30 years of ashes in the atmosphere, the sun being dimmed and consequently low harvests, starvation etc... etc... Did some search on PBS website: The documentary is : Secrets of the dead- Catastrophe (http://www.shoppbs.org/search/index.jsp?kwCatId=kw=catastropheorigkw=catastrophef=PAD%2FFormat%2FDVDsr=1) The weblink is: (http://www.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/previous_seasons/html/e1-menu.html) Well, I am interested to know more about all this :) Good evening Michael B, France - Original Message - From: Paul bristo...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 11:56 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Crater impostor unmasked as sheep-dip Crater impostor unmasked as sheep-dip The supposed meteorite that supposedly caused the supposed “Sirente crater” in the Abruzzi mountains did not bring down the Roman Empire after all. Ted Nield reports. Geoscientist Online 19 March 2009 http://www.geolsoc.org.uk/gsl/geoscientist/geonews/page5368.html The references given in this article are: Bondre, N 2009: Crater or not? Nature Geoscience vol. 2 March 2009 p. 166 Ormö J et al., 2002: The Sirente Crater Field, Italy. Meteorit. Planet. Sci., 37 1507-1521 http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/full/2002M%26PS...37.1507O Speranza, F et al., 2004: An anthropogenic origin of the “Sirente Crater”, Abruzzi, Italy. Meteorit. Planet. Sci., 39, 4, 635-649 http://www.earth-prints.org/handle/2122/3941 Speranza, F et al., 2009: The “Sirente crater field”, Italy, revisited. Journal of Geophysical Research. vol. 114, B03103, doi:10.1029/2008JB005759. http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2009/2008JB005759.shtml Yours, Paul H. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Japan plans to send walking robots to moon-- nobody on Earth suprised.
To think-- even as we speak, the girls who will pilot these things are learning to walk, themselves. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,512462,00.html Japan Aims to Create Moon-Walking Robot by 2020 Friday, April 03, 2009 TOKYO Japan hopes to have a two-legged robot walk on the moon by around 2020, with a joint mission involving astronauts and robots to follow, according to a plan laid out Friday by a government group. Specifics of the plan, including what new technologies will be required and the size of the project's budget, are to be decided within the next two years, according to Japan's Strategic Headquarters for Space Development, a Cabinet-level working group. Development of a lunar robot is part of a broad framework outlined by the group, which is charged with plotting a new course for Japan's space strategy. As a next step, joint exploration of the moon involving robots and astronauts will be considered. The framework is to be finalized late next month, after the public has a chance to comment on the proposals. The group also recommended promoting research into military satellites, such as an early warning system for detecting ballistic missile launches and systems to detect and analyze radio waves sent in space. Other recommendations by the group include using space research as a tool to foster diplomacy with other countries and developing an advanced satellite to predict and monitor natural disasters. The Strategic Headquarters was established last year by a law passed to advance Japan's space technology and exploration. It allows the country, which has a largely peaceful constitution, to use space for military defense. Friday's proposal was released as North Korea was completing preparations to launch a multistage rocket over Japan. The communist country says it will send a communications satellite into orbit, but Tokyo suspects the North, which has acknowledged it has nuclear weapons, is actually testing long-range missile technology. Japan launched its first satellite in 1970 and has long been among the world leaders in space technology. But in recent years, it has been overshadowed by China, which is aggressively pushing its own space program. In January, Japan used one of its rockets to launch the first satellite to monitor greenhouse gases worldwide, a tool to help monitor global warming. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Banishment -OT was 2 arrested update
--- On Thu, 4/2/09, meteorh...@aol.com meteorh...@aol.com wrote: some of this story smells a little fishy... snip.. it was reported that Honorable(sic) Judge Jerry M. Daniel told the guys to get out of dodge.“ Georgia and Alabama are the only US states left where the common law of banishment is still legal statewide. Dating back to King George III, thus predating both the US and Georgia State constitutions it has been upheld under common law by the US Supreme Court although certain limits are pending review. It is an almost obligatory addition to any sentence in Georgia where the defendants are not local residents and the Judge needs re-election publicity. In Georgia, a county judge is an officer of the State court system but can't banish you into the rest of the state but, can banish you from the whole state IIRC. Hard to enforce outside the judge's own county, and under one supreme court ruling it can't extend beyond the original sentence of the underlying sentence, it is theoretically possible to land one back in jail if caught again in the state and you are notorious in that banishment is not kept in state-wide records. The new arresting officer would have to be smart enough to call the previous judge--and fortunately intelligence is not a requirement for their employment. I know one county in Georgia where there is the Sheriff, his wife is the Jailer, his son is THE full time Deputy( who in Barney Fife tradition frequently, isn't allowed to carry a loaded gun and who's IQ is just high enough to not be classified as a rock). The sheriff's daughter is the 9-1-1 Director/dispatcher. The judge is a cousin or uncle??? The cousin mayor in the county seat also owns the feed store, cotton gin, gun shop,ambulance service, towing contract and jail food services contract. As you can imagine NO ONE in 20 years as ever been found not guilty. No one married into the family can get a divorce unless the family member wants it. This is not illegal per se for inbred nepotism to such a degree. In a state where it is legal to marry your cousin, this should surprise no outsider. Unfortunately to this day a common offense meriting summary execution is DWB-Driving while black or DWM --while Mexican. I wouldn't be surprised if DWY wasn't a common offense--you know Driving while Yankee. Elton __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Estheticist
Estheticist, I guess that is what I am. I want to care more about such things as composition and TKW or where and when it was found but I am drawn to big unclassified stones because of what they look like! The size is all about looking cool and not a comparative evaluation. What am I talking about? Check out Martin Horejsi's The Accretion Desk in the March Meteorite Times. It's been a busy time on the list so I didn't mention this sooner but the new MT will be up in a couple days and I thought Martin's article was real cool. Martin said I'm a materialistic estheticist. What are you? Any one care to share? http://www.meteorite-times.com/meteorite_frame.htm Tom **Hurry! April 15th is almost here. File your Federal taxes FREE with TaxACT. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220239440x1201335902/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.taxact.com%2F08tax.asp%3Fsc%3D084102950001%26p%3D82) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Announcing Meteorite Men the TV Show
In a message dated 4/3/2009 6:55:37 P.M. Central Daylight Time, carloselgua...@hotmail.com writes: I would love to see this show but don't have the Science Channel. :( When this airs can someone copy this to a dvd? I'm sure others are on the same boat as I. Carl * Carl, I have been told that both DirecTv and Dish will let you buy access to channels that are not in your package for $5 per day per channel. I have also been told by one person that has purchased a daily pass for individual channels at various times that his provider has never actually billed him for the occasional request he has made. Check with your satellite or cable provider to see if this quasi pay-per-view option is available for you. Steve Arnold Arkansas **Hurry! April 15th is almost here. File your Federal taxes FREE with TaxACT. (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220239440x1201335902/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.taxact.com%2F08tax.asp%3Fsc%3D084102950001%26p%3D82) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
