date:20100310

    It's Todd Parker (at least they're using his IMCA #).  He is in the 
monograph.  I believe he found the last one that made the book (back in 
December), and an earlier piece.

Pretty nice slice!
Mark B.
Vail, AZ



- Original Message 
From: Richard Kowalski 
To: meteorite list 
Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 9:07:40 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] The first whetstone on eBay?

I've seen some auctions of Jack's monograph that included some fragments, but 
this is the first Whetstone I've seen on ebay.

I am not familiar with the seller

http://tinyurl.com/ygvxa72


--
Richard Kowalski
Full Moon Photography
IMCA #1081


      
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[meteorite-list] The first whetstone on eBay?

2010-03-10 Thread Richard Kowalski

I've seen some auctions of Jack's monograph that included some fragments, but 
this is the first Whetstone I've seen on ebay.

I am not familiar with the seller

http://tinyurl.com/ygvxa72


--
Richard Kowalski
Full Moon Photography
IMCA #1081


  
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[meteorite-list] Meteors, by C. P. Oliver an original copy pubished in 1925

2010-03-10 Thread Shawn Alan

Hi Bob, AL, and Listers :)
 
Thank you for your comments on this topic. The book that is in question has 
been posted on the Internet by a gentlemen that married Dr LaPaz daughter. He 
is handling Dr LaPaz estate and in 2001 found over 500g of Norton County 
meteorite in Dr LaPaz basement which 320g was taped by Dr LaPaz in fear of the 
fragment fracturing( I have 3 images that he sent me and if anyone wants to see 
the images I can email them to you if you like). Last month I had purchased 
2.3s fragment with photo copy's of new paper clippings and a photo copy of a 
hand written letter from Dr LaPaz. Also the individual had told me about the 
book he uploaded to the Internet and from the email he sent me he stated Dr 
LaPaz would sign his name in his book. Signing your name on something you 
own and doing a signature for a book sign are two different things. One is lose 
and the other is tight. Now its funny Mike hasn't stated where he got the book 
from with the signature.The book
 that is listed on the Internet is from Dr LaPaz's personal library collection, 
making that book from the main source. Also when you look at the signature and 
the signing there are a few similarities between the two. Here is a link to the 
signature and the signing by Dr LaPaz. 
 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/48262...@n03/4422192244/
 
Take a look at the 2 L's and take a look at where the L curves. At each 
instance with both L's the curves are similar with their curves. This can be 
further seen with the P's on the top of the P, the arch lines up perfectly on 
the upward angle which that angle is also indicative with the L angles as well. 
When looking at the bottom of the P's they both point at an inward angle. Also 
notice the relation of where the P's start to the relation of P's arch. In both 
P's one can notice that the proportions are congruent. Another observation I 
pointed out that I think is damning is look at the P in the left corner and do 
you notice at the end of the P how it arches up? Now take a look at the 
signature and look at the end of the P and see the arches and almost closes 
cause its a signature. 
 
Now I would like to move to the A's. In both hand writing samples I cant pen 
point any similarities between the two on how they are written in style. But I 
did notice a pattern between the two on how they're written. Now take a look at 
both A's from the samples. Notice that the A's in La are different in respects 
to the A's in Paz. That pattern is suggestive in both writing samples where you 
see that one A are different to one another.
 
Lets move on to the Z. This one was a hard one but after writing to you and 
having a nights rests I noticed the shapes are similar. One is tight and the 
other is vary loose. Where the z intersects the distance at the intersection 
point is similar in respects to proportion.
 
Now what you two , I mean three are saying, if a women wrote in the book that 
is listed on the internet 
http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/11388383_xtf3A#800281414_E7khp
 
why are there alot of similarities between the two examples of writings? I 
would find it very odd that there would be any similarities at all. Now lets 
say that the signature is from a book signing that Mike personal went to and 
got the signature from Dr LaPaz, I would feel that Mikes signature would 
validate as a good source and would confirm that the two samples have 
similarities. And if it wasn't signed in front of Mike the signature as an 
example could be in question. But again, Mike is an expert in historical books 
and signatures, so I would have to agree with you Bob and Al that the signature 
Mike provided is by Dr LaPaz. In turn we can take that example listed by Mike 
and compare and it to the signed name by Dr LaPaz in the other book see some 
good similarities in the two writing styles.
 
Thank you 
Shawn Alan  
 

[meteorite-list] Meteors, by C. P. Oliver an original copy pubished in 
1925almitt2 at localnet.com almitt2 at localnet.com 
Wed Mar 10 21:11:57 EST 2010 


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pubished in 1925 
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2010 
Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] 

Hi Bob, 

Haven't had time to chime in on this but wanted to. I agree with your 
statements. Especially in regard to Mike Jensen's knowledge on the 
subject of meteorite books and signitures. He would be the first person 
I would contact If I wondered about something in a meteorite book and 
is a super knowledgable guy. 

While he was being humble by saying he isn't an absolute expert, an 
expert is someone who knows more than the typical person on a subject 
and I would say that Mike is an expert as he has been dealing in books 
for a long long time. 

--AL Mitterling 

Quoting Bob Loeffler : 


> Hi Shawn, 

> 

> It's a well-known fact (there have been many studies done on it) that women 

> usual

[meteorite-list] What is the availability of AH 76009 and NWA 5511?

2010-03-10 Thread Melanie Matthews

Hello listers 
Are the meteorites "Allan Hills 76009" and "NWA 5511" rarely offered for 
sale/auction? I have eight micromounts - one set of four AH and the other set 
NWA 5511 (four lots of "crumbs"), that I want to offer for sale. But I want to 
first make sure I'm correct in my statement about these being offered as 
"rarely offered" before passing them off as such. 

 
Thanks 
---
Melanie
IMCA: 2975
eBay: metmel2775
Known on SkyRock Cafe as SpaceCollector09

Unclassified meteorites are like a box of chocolates... you never know what 
you're gonna get!



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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteors, by C. P. Oliver an original copy pubished in 1925

2010-03-10 Thread almitt2


Hi Bob,

Haven't had time to chime in on this but wanted to. I agree with your 
statements. Especially in regard to Mike Jensen's knowledge on the 
subject of meteorite books and signitures. He would be the first person 
I would contact If I wondered about something in a meteorite book and 
is a super knowledgable guy.


While he was being humble by saying he isn't an absolute expert, an 
expert is someone who knows more than the typical person on a subject 
and I would say that  Mike is an expert as he has been dealing in books 
for a long long time.


--AL Mitterling

Quoting Bob Loeffler :


Hi Shawn,

It's a well-known fact (there have been many studies done on it) that women
usually write with a curvier (larger loop) style than men do.  That is what
Mike was referring to and I completely agree with him.  The signature in
your book was probably done by a woman, but yes, there is still a
*possibility* that it was written by a man.

Signing your name and writing your signature is the same thing.  I'm not
sure why you think they are different.  If I sign my name, that is my
signature.  Maybe you are talking about when a person casually writes
his/her name on something, but most people who do that will print their name
instead of using cursive writing.  And then each letter is usually written
separately instead of them flowing together.  In both books, the "a" and "z"
in "Paz" flow together, so that is probably not his version of printing his
name in cursive.  Women write in cursive a lot more than men do, but I don't
know what it was like for LaPaz' generation.

Or maybe you are talking about the guy's first name which is in Mike's book
but not in yours?  But that doesn't matter in this case.  Looking at the
last name, it's very obvious that the "L" is very different between Mike's
and your books' signatures/names, so two different people wrote those names.

You and the guy selling the book could very well be correct in saying that
this is LaPaz' signature or written name, but there is no way to know for
sure.  The way people write changes over time (especially from childhood to
adulthood), but major changes (like that "L") are not usually changed during
adulthood.  Mike has been dealing with historical books for a long time, so
I would trust his word on this subject more than most people's.

If that really is LaPaz' signature, then that (and the notations) would
increase the value of the book for some collectors.  Other collectors, of
course, could care less.

Regards,

Bob



-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Alan
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 3:05 AM
To: meteoritepl...@gmail.com; tricottetc...@live.com
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteors,by C. P. Oliver an original copy pubished
in 1925

Hi Mike and List
 
Clearly I find it funny that your saying your book is the real deal and the
one posted on the link isn't from him. Now why do you think yours is the
real deal? You never explained where you got the book with his signature,
now did you. Now I find this to be funny. You state that
 
"Hopefully you will agree that these were not done by the same person.
To my eye it looks like yours was done by a female as the letters have
such large loops."  you also go on to say ..
 
"It in no way makes them an expert in recognizing his signature. I
really takes a side by side comparison to do this."
 
O really. so when did you become a hand writing analysis expert? You said
yourself the the image on the website I posted on the List was done by a
female. How do you know that it was written by a female? Also you even said
yourself
 
"Obviously you believe that by being related to someone you could
recognize their signature expertly. I do not agree with you. I would
have to have my a known copy of my wife's signature to compare it to
another to be certain it is hers."
 
Again Mike, here you go into saying that you wouldn't be able to tell by
your wife's signature unless you had copies to compare it to. So how does it
give you a right to say that the signing was done by a female on the link I
provided to the list?  
 
http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/11388383_xtf3A#800281414_E7khp
 
But I think your over looking something that I have stated. I have been
communicating with the individual that posted the book and he emailed me
back and said .
 
 
Hi Shawn:
 
 Dr. LaPaz often wrote his name in a book as soon
as he received it.  That is his writing "LaPaz") on the inside
front cover of Meteors.  All notations in the book (I think they
are all in red ink) are his.
 
Ok, the key words is Dr LaPaz wrote his name in his books. Now do you get
what I said about

"Lastly, another thing to remember, signing your name in a book and
doing a signature for some fan can hold different signatures?" and you say

 
"Sorry don't really understand your point here so I can

Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question

Exactly - I'd hate to be the example also.  Hoping that Jeff's proposal gets 
some traction in the scientific community...



- Original Message 
From: Jerry Flaherty 
To: Mark Bowling ; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 6:46:58 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question

True,  internet "piracy", the few celebrated in the media, attempt to WARN 
the public that the law has teeth. Hate to be the example

--
From: "Mark Bowling" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:01 PM
To: 
Cc: 
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question

> It is all a matter of enforcement - and they aren't enforcing it in every 
> case (probably none of them, but the potential is there). As it is now, 
> they can't keep the border sealed, so I doubt most feds in those districts 
> care because they have bigger worries. They can't keep people from dumping 
> trash and abandoning vehicles. So what is the harm of digging a few 
> meteorites (especially when most enthusiasts are eager to help in the 
> progress of meteoritics)?
>
> Happy hunting,
> Mark B.
> Vail, AZ
>
>
>
>
>
> - Original Message 
> From: Greg Stanley 
> To: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net; almi...@localnet.com; 
> altm...@meteorite-martin.de
> Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 1:19:37 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question
>
>
> Now you're just being silly.
>
> I have a question to everyone who hunts Federal Lands:
>
> How many of you were FORCED... FORCED to give your meteorite(s) to the 
> Smithsonian?
>
>
> Greg S.
>
> 
>> From: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net
>> To: almi...@localnet.com; altm...@meteorite-martin.de
>> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:13:38 -0600
>> CC: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened 
>> toethics??
>>
>> No,
>>
>> But you will have to send half of the fish,
>> if you catch any, to the Smithsonian...
>>
>>
>> Sterling Webb
>> --
>> - Original Message -
>> From:
>> To: "Martin Altmann"
>> Cc:
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:12 AM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened
>> toethics??
>>
>>
>> Hi Martin and all,
>>
>> Next thing you know they will be putting a stop to fishing in this
>> country.
>>
>> --AL Mitterling
>>
>> Quoting Martin Altmann :
>>
>>> No, where did I?
>>>
>>> Jason.
>>>
>>> I like history. I like the Bulletins, I like modern natural science. I
>>> love
>>> meteorites.
>>> And, yes, I like my profession too,
>>> a profession, nobody has to be ashamed of.
>>>
>>> These are the four reasons,
>>> why I can't keep mum these years.
>>>
>>> Because I simply can't understand: Aren't they seeing, what they are
>>> doing?
>>>
>>> If only a single one could explain me,
>>> which the positive effects of the restrictive laws are or were
>>> in Australia, in Canada, in China, in Oman, in Algeria, in Argentina,
>>> in the
>>> Philippines, in Denmark, in Sudan, in Libya, in Namibia, in South
>>> Africa
>>> (?), now in USA, in Poland, in Russia (?), in Switzerland..
>>>
>>> then I promise to be much quieter.
>>>
>>> Perhaps you can help me with that?
>>> So far I see only, that they risk all.
>>>
>>> Thank you
>>> Martin
>>>
>>>
>>> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
>>> Von: Jason Utas [mailto:meteorite...@gmail.com]
>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. März 2010 01:05
>>> An: Martin Altmann; Meteorite-list
>>> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...what
>>> happened
>>> toethics??
>>>
>>> So, what you're saying, Martin, is that you advocate hunters lying
>>> about where they find meteorites so that they can keep them.
>>> Because that was his question.
>>> ...Interesting.
>>> Jason
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> __
>>> Visit the Archives at
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> __
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>> __
>> Visit the Archives at 
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> _
> Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection.
> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469226/direct/01/
> __
> Visit t

Re: [meteorite-list] I'm a Toys Are Us KId?

2010-03-10 Thread Michael Blood

Disagreement is no reason to call someone names or
Imply they are crazy or criminal.
Check the list rules.
Sincerely, Michael


On 3/10/10 1:46 AM, "bill kies"  wrote:

> 
> I think brevity is one of the highest forms of expression. The simple equation
> that explains much is of great value.
>  
> I agree that civil disobedience is the responsibility of every good citizen.
>  
>  
> "I have never sold or traded a find, and never will. They will all windup in
> an institution."
>  
> I hope so but I doubt this will happen. Odds are that with your attitude
> you'll end up in an institution first. It's fun to be idealistic... I'm afraid
> you're going to be the meteorite kid for a long, long time.
>  
>  
>  
> 
> 
> 
>> Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 23:31:47 -0800
>> From: meteorite...@gmail.com
>> To: gee...@msn.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It is a sad day.
>> 
>> Greg, All,
>> 
>>> These laws that restrict what can be taken off of BLM land, etc.where do
>>> they come from? Where do these laws come from? Who creates these laws?
>> 
>> What's your point? This wasn't addressed in your email or my reply,
>> so I'm not sure what you're getting at.
>> We are, of course, talking about the government, but if you're going
>> to choose this as your example of an unnecessary or "wrong" law,
>> perhaps you should challenge the laws that prohibit the collection of
>> vertebrate fossils or indian remains by amateurs, as well. They
>> amount to the same thing - but are more readily enforced.
>> 
>>> Also, I'd like to address the following in your recent post. Speaking of
>>> meteorites, you wrote, "it wouldn't stop anyone from hunting for them;
>>> it's easy enough to say that you're looking for *anything* else...and if
>>> they ask you what the brown rock that you've found is, do you really expect
>>> the BLM officer to know what a meteorite looks like?
>>> 
>>> In other words, *break the law*. Is that about right? Whatever works, huh.
>> 
>> Hardly. Have you ever jay-walked? Did you ever have a sip of beer
>> before turning 21 (or 18, depending on the era).
>> I know that we do a better job of documenting our finds than most
>> people out there, and a trained scientist probably wouldn't do better
>> -- at least, I don't see what else they could do in terms of
>> documenting a find.
>> The thing is -- I understand why those laws are in place, and while I
>> suppose we may technically be breaking them, if they are indeed
>> official laws, the simple fact of the matter is this: I have never
>> sold or traded a find away, and never will. I have also fully
>> documented every find - coordinates, labels, we have trip logs for
>> each trip, in situ photos without gps, with gps, all photos
>> laboriously annotated by Peter, and the records are on two computers,
>> backed up on my external hard-drive, and are in paper form as well.
>> When I die, unless I have children and they love these things as much
>> as I do, our collection will likely go to the Smithsonian, with
>> certain provisions that none of the samples be cut beyond 10% or some
>> such thing.
>> That or some other institution.
>> 
>> I understand why laws against the collecting of vertebrate fossils are
>> in place, and I wouldn't try to excavate any were I to come across
>> them, for fear of damaging them and losing valuable scientific
>> information.
>> But I know damn well how to document meteorites, and we do a good job
>> of it - as well as can be done.
>> 
>> So when you tell me that I'm breaking a law...kind of, I suppose. I
>> have never sold or traded a find, and never will. They will all wind
>> up in an institution. They are all very well documented, and, to be
>> frank, given the level of documentation that we have, it would be very
>> hard to confuse a single one of our finds with another.
>> So while you may claim that I may be *technically* breaking the law in
>> taking them, but I'll be damned if you even try to say that I'm
>> breaking the spirit of the law.
>> 
>> Jason
>> 
>>> 
>>> Greg
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 22:43:03 -0800
 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It is a sad day.
 From: meteorite...@gmail.com
 To: gee...@msn.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 
 Greg, Ron, Chris, All,
 
 And some here might disagree with you about your point of view;
 "something that [you]'ve observed over the past few years" isn't fact,
 it's opinion, and if you want to start a debate about how large
 governments are bad, I think you should take it elsewhere - and
 perhaps stop stating your point of view as though it was fact.
 
 With regards to that sort of a decision about meteorites - nothing's
 changed recently, and even if it did or had, it wouldn't stop anyone
 from hunting for them; it's easy enough to say that you're looking for

Re: [meteorite-list] Meteors, by C. P. Oliver an original copy pubished in 1925

2010-03-10 Thread Bob Loeffler

Hi Shawn,

It's a well-known fact (there have been many studies done on it) that women
usually write with a curvier (larger loop) style than men do.  That is what
Mike was referring to and I completely agree with him.  The signature in
your book was probably done by a woman, but yes, there is still a
*possibility* that it was written by a man.

Signing your name and writing your signature is the same thing.  I'm not
sure why you think they are different.  If I sign my name, that is my
signature.  Maybe you are talking about when a person casually writes
his/her name on something, but most people who do that will print their name
instead of using cursive writing.  And then each letter is usually written
separately instead of them flowing together.  In both books, the "a" and "z"
in "Paz" flow together, so that is probably not his version of printing his
name in cursive.  Women write in cursive a lot more than men do, but I don't
know what it was like for LaPaz' generation.

Or maybe you are talking about the guy's first name which is in Mike's book
but not in yours?  But that doesn't matter in this case.  Looking at the
last name, it's very obvious that the "L" is very different between Mike's
and your books' signatures/names, so two different people wrote those names.

You and the guy selling the book could very well be correct in saying that
this is LaPaz' signature or written name, but there is no way to know for
sure.  The way people write changes over time (especially from childhood to
adulthood), but major changes (like that "L") are not usually changed during
adulthood.  Mike has been dealing with historical books for a long time, so
I would trust his word on this subject more than most people's.

If that really is LaPaz' signature, then that (and the notations) would
increase the value of the book for some collectors.  Other collectors, of
course, could care less.

Regards,

Bob



-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Alan
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 3:05 AM
To: meteoritepl...@gmail.com; tricottetc...@live.com
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteors,by C. P. Oliver an original copy pubished
in 1925

Hi Mike and List 
 
Clearly I find it funny that your saying your book is the real deal and the
one posted on the link isn't from him. Now why do you think yours is the
real deal? You never explained where you got the book with his signature,
now did you. Now I find this to be funny. You state that 
 
"Hopefully you will agree that these were not done by the same person. 
To my eye it looks like yours was done by a female as the letters have 
such large loops."  you also go on to say ..
 
"It in no way makes them an expert in recognizing his signature. I 
really takes a side by side comparison to do this." 
 
O really. so when did you become a hand writing analysis expert? You said
yourself the the image on the website I posted on the List was done by a
female. How do you know that it was written by a female? Also you even said
yourself 
 
"Obviously you believe that by being related to someone you could 
recognize their signature expertly. I do not agree with you. I would 
have to have my a known copy of my wife's signature to compare it to 
another to be certain it is hers." 
 
Again Mike, here you go into saying that you wouldn't be able to tell by
your wife's signature unless you had copies to compare it to. So how does it
give you a right to say that the signing was done by a female on the link I
provided to the list?  
 
http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/11388383_xtf3A#800281414_E7khp 
 
But I think your over looking something that I have stated. I have been
communicating with the individual that posted the book and he emailed me
back and said .
 
  
Hi Shawn:
 
 Dr. LaPaz often wrote his name in a book as soon
as he received it.  That is his writing "LaPaz") on the inside
front cover of Meteors.  All notations in the book (I think they
are all in red ink) are his.
 
Ok, the key words is Dr LaPaz wrote his name in his books. Now do you get
what I said about

"Lastly, another thing to remember, signing your name in a book and 
doing a signature for some fan can hold different signatures?" and you say

 
"Sorry don't really understand your point here so I cannot comment on it."
 
So lets say I buy a book and I sign my name in it. Now I wouldnt do a
signature in the book because signatures are hard to read, I would SIGN my
name in the book instead. Now if I was going to do a signature on a
document, I would use my signature, or signature to sign someones book. I
think you have have done this before, signing someting with your name on it.
Now I have something for you to look at and Listers
 
 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/48262...@n03/4422192244/
 
Ok now what I did is I took your signature which is the bottom and took the
signing of his

Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question

True,  internet "piracy", the few celebrated in the media, attempt to WARN 
the public that the law has teeth. Hate to be the example

--
From: "Mark Bowling" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:01 PM
To: 
Cc: 
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question

It is all a matter of enforcement - and they aren't enforcing it in every 
case (probably none of them, but the potential is there). As it is now, 
they can't keep the border sealed, so I doubt most feds in those districts 
care because they have bigger worries. They can't keep people from dumping 
trash and abandoning vehicles. So what is the harm of digging a few 
meteorites (especially when most enthusiasts are eager to help in the 
progress of meteoritics)?

Happy hunting,
Mark B.
Vail, AZ

- Original Message 
From: Greg Stanley 
To: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net; almi...@localnet.com; 
altm...@meteorite-martin.de

Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 1:19:37 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question

Now you're just being silly.

I have a question to everyone who hunts Federal Lands:

How many of you were FORCED... FORCED to give your meteorite(s) to the 
Smithsonian?

Greg S.

From: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net
To: almi...@localnet.com; altm...@meteorite-martin.de
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:13:38 -0600
CC: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened 
toethics??

No,

But you will have to send half of the fish,
if you catch any, to the Smithsonian...

Sterling Webb
--
- Original Message -
From:
To: "Martin Altmann"
Cc:
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened
toethics??

Hi Martin and all,

Next thing you know they will be putting a stop to fishing in this
country.

--AL Mitterling

Quoting Martin Altmann :

No, where did I?

Jason.

I like history. I like the Bulletins, I like modern natural science. I
love
meteorites.
And, yes, I like my profession too,
a profession, nobody has to be ashamed of.

These are the four reasons,
why I can't keep mum these years.

Because I simply can't understand: Aren't they seeing, what they are
doing?

If only a single one could explain me,
which the positive effects of the restrictive laws are or were
in Australia, in Canada, in China, in Oman, in Algeria, in Argentina,
in the
Philippines, in Denmark, in Sudan, in Libya, in Namibia, in South
Africa
(?), now in USA, in Poland, in Russia (?), in Switzerland..

then I promise to be much quieter.

Perhaps you can help me with that?
So far I see only, that they risk all.

Thank you
Martin

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Jason Utas [mailto:meteorite...@gmail.com]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. März 2010 01:05
An: Martin Altmann; Meteorite-list
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...what
happened
toethics??

So, what you're saying, Martin, is that you advocate hunters lying
about where they find meteorites so that they can keep them.
Because that was his question.
...Interesting.
Jason

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Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadderday...whathappened toethics??

Is that I/2 of each fish and if so are we talking head or hind quarters, 
dorsal or ventral, innards' or outers or half the catch? I'm just trying to 
clarify for the Agency which represents the Smithsonian in these matters

Thank you

--
From: "Sterling K. Webb" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 3:13 PM
To: ; "Martin Altmann" 
Cc: 
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even 
sadderday...whathappenedtoethics??> No,

But you will have to send half of the fish,
if you catch any, to the Smithsonian...

Sterling Webb
--
- Original Message - 
From: 

To: "Martin Altmann" 
Cc: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened 
toethics??

Hi Martin and all,

Next thing you know they will be putting a stop to fishing in this 
country.

--AL Mitterling

Quoting Martin Altmann :

No, where did I?

Jason.

I like history. I like the Bulletins, I like modern natural science. I 
love

meteorites.
And, yes, I like my profession too,
a profession, nobody has to be ashamed of.

These are the four reasons,
why I can't keep mum these years.

Because I simply can't understand: Aren't they seeing, what they are 
doing?

If only a single one could explain me,
which the positive effects of the restrictive laws are or were
in Australia, in Canada, in China, in Oman, in Algeria, in Argentina, in 
the

Philippines, in Denmark, in Sudan, in Libya, in Namibia, in South Africa
(?), now in USA, in Poland, in Russia (?), in Switzerland..

then I promise to be much quieter.

Perhaps you can help me with that?
So far I see only, that they risk all.

Thank you
Martin

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Jason Utas [mailto:meteorite...@gmail.com]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. März 2010 01:05
An: Martin Altmann; Meteorite-list
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...what happened
toethics??

So, what you're saying, Martin, is that you advocate hunters lying
about where they find meteorites so that they can keep them.
Because that was his question.
...Interesting.
Jason

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Re: [meteorite-list] Italian boffins experience "ring aroud the Congo"

2010-03-10 Thread Sterling K. Webb


Here's the Google Earth way to the crater:
http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=884899&filename=20100309234324-4b974d9c5b6c89.58201074.kmz

Been posted on Google Earth boards as a potential
crater since 2006. It's in a Russian crater database
under the name Omeonga:
http://omzg.sscc.ru/impact/index1.html
and also on the list of Suspected Earth Impact Sites (SEIS)
http://web.eps.utk.edu/ifsg.htm

The location is:
3.625 S and 24.515 E

Proof Positive that Il Professori d'Padova can Google

Is that how Columbus did it?


Sterling
---
- Original Message - 
From: "Darren Garrison" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 3:22 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Italian boffins experience "ring aroud the 
Congo"




http://www.metro.co.uk/news/816812-scientists-find-giant-asteroid-crater-in-african-forest
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Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - March 10, 2010


WOW! a real burner

--
From: "Michael Johnson" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 8:18 AM
To: 
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - March 
10,2010



http://www.rocksfromspace.org/March_10_2010.html

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Re: [meteorite-list] Probable new impact crater

Thanks Graham. Always  interested in new finds, especially of such 
significance.

Jerry

--
From: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 6:34 AM
To: "meteorite list" 
Subject: [meteorite-list] Probable new impact crater



Just seen this...big one!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8526093.stm

Graham E, UK


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[meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - March 10, 2010

2010-03-10 Thread Ron Baalke



MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES
March 10, 2010

o At the Summit of Arsia Mons Volcano 
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_002157_1715

o Northern Hemisphere Gullies with Layers
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_001528_2210

o Candidate Landing Site in Possible Salt Playa
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_016288_1745

o Cerberus Fossae East of the Head of Athabasca Valles
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_016216_1900

o A Burst of Spring
  http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_016032_2600


All of the HiRISE images are archived here:

http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/

Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is 
online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is 
managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division 
of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA 
Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed 
Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor 
and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the 
University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies 
Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument.

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Re: [meteorite-list] Ash Creek=stony iro...@#

2010-03-10 Thread Linton Rohr


Greetings list.
Very interesting batch of "West Texas stony iron chondrites" here on e-bay.
Many of them look like they've been lying along a creek for a few decades.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120541335542&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
Happy bidding! 
Linton 


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Re: [meteorite-list] A simple question

Okay, tanks for settin me strate. As long as them there are doin the recognizin 
we's gonna be alrite. 
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


 Elizabeth Warner  wrote: 
> Wow! That is some very bizarre logic Carly... Heaven-forbid you ever do 
> something wrong/illegal because then we'll hold your kids and grandkids 
> and great-grandkids accountable as well!
> 
> What matters is how the Smithsonian and other museums behave now. And 
> most museums are doing the right things recognizing that stolen property 
> is not a good thing. But to expect them to go back and fix everything 
> that curators did 72 years ago is a bit unreasonable.
> 
> Clear Skies!
> Elizabeth
> 
> 
> 
> cdtuc...@cox.net wrote:
> > Liz,
> > It's never too late to do the right thing is it? The smith still exists. 
> > Why should they not be held accountable for their past sins ? 
> > Our great nation was built on doing what's right wasn't it? But, we have a 
> > terrible track record of self policing. What voters can do is nudge them a 
> > bit
> > so they get back on the right track. Court litigation would be second best 
> > way to persuade the doing of the right thing. The Government is for the 
> > people not against us. Retribution is sometimes in order then forgiveness 
> > can follow? Carl 
> > --
> > Carl or Debbie Esparza
> > Meteoritemax
> > 
> > 
> >  Elizabeth Warner  wrote: 
> >> So you're going to hold the Smithsonian responsible for something that 
> >> happened 72 years ago?? Granted, what the reps of the Smithsonian did 
> >> way back then is not cool, but I don't think that "punishing" the 
> >> current institution is exactly fair either...
> >>
> >> I mean, if we were to search and find something in your family history 
> >> that you're not proud of and then hold it against you, how would you feel??
> >>
> >> Clear Skies!
> >> Elizabeth
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> MIke Antonelli wrote:
> >>> During my investigation and hunt for the Chicora meteorite, I found out 
> >>> the Smithsonian strong-armed the owners of the specimen that was found on 
> >>> their own land...Stating "You must turn this over in the name of 
> >>> science"...And they did...Granted, this was in 1938, but the truth of the 
> >>> matter is they came in, collected what little material there was, and 
> >>> split without so much as a thank you to the landowners. If I ever DO find 
> >>> that main mass,(and yes, it is still out there) they will get NONE of 
> >>> it...Sorry, but from the stories Ive heard about what took place back 
> >>> then (and yes, Ive gotten first hand accounts), it was not right, and 
> >>> they were even bullies about it! It was actually a hammer that tore the 
> >>> hide right off of a cow, that later that day had to be put down. Also a 
> >>> piece struck a chicken coop, and the other stone actually got tangled in 
> >>> a young girls dress as it came down. I have interviewed everyone that was 
> >>> there, that is still alive, and just
> >>>  talking to these folks made me somewhat ashamed of the Smith, and the 
> >>> way they handled things. 
> >>> __
> >>> Visit the Archives at 
> >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> >>> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >>>
> >> __
> >> Visit the Archives at 
> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> > 
> __
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> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
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Re: [meteorite-list] A simple question

2010-03-10 Thread Elizabeth Warner

Wow! That is some very bizarre logic Carly... Heaven-forbid you ever do
something wrong/illegal because then we'll hold your kids and grandkids
and great-grandkids accountable as well!

What matters is how the Smithsonian and other museums behave now. And
most museums are doing the right things recognizing that stolen property
is not a good thing. But to expect them to go back and fix everything
that curators did 72 years ago is a bit unreasonable.

Clear Skies!
Elizabeth

cdtuc...@cox.net wrote:

Liz,
It's never too late to do the right thing is it? The smith still exists. Why should they not be held accountable for their past sins ?
Our great nation was built on doing what's right wasn't it? But, we have a terrible track record of self policing. What voters can do is nudge them a bit
so they get back on the right track. Court litigation would be second best way to persuade the doing of the right thing. The Government is for the people not against us. Retribution is sometimes in order then forgiveness can follow? Carl
--

Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax

Elizabeth Warner wrote:
So you're going to hold the Smithsonian responsible for something that
happened 72 years ago?? Granted, what the reps of the Smithsonian did
way back then is not cool, but I don't think that "punishing" the
current institution is exactly fair either...

I mean, if we were to search and find something in your family history
that you're not proud of and then hold it against you, how would you feel??

Clear Skies!
Elizabeth

MIke Antonelli wrote:

During my investigation and hunt for the Chicora meteorite, I found out the Smithsonian
strong-armed the owners of the specimen that was found on their own land...Stating
"You must turn this over in the name of science"...And they did...Granted, this
was in 1938, but the truth of the matter is they came in, collected what little material
there was, and split without so much as a thank you to the landowners. If I ever DO find
that main mass,(and yes, it is still out there) they will get NONE of it...Sorry, but
from the stories Ive heard about what took place back then (and yes, Ive gotten first
hand accounts), it was not right, and they were even bullies about it! It was actually a
hammer that tore the hide right off of a cow, that later that day had to be put down.
Also a piece struck a chicken coop, and the other stone actually got tangled in a young
girls dress as it came down. I have interviewed everyone that was there, that is still
alive, and just
talking to these folks made me somewhat ashamed of the Smith, and the way they handled things.
__

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Re: [meteorite-list] A simple question

Liz,
It's never too late to do the right thing is it? The smith still exists. Why 
should they not be held accountable for their past sins ? 
Our great nation was built on doing what's right wasn't it? But, we have a 
terrible track record of self policing. What voters can do is nudge them a bit
so they get back on the right track. Court litigation would be second best way 
to persuade the doing of the right thing. The Government is for the people not 
against us. Retribution is sometimes in order then forgiveness can follow? Carl 
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


 Elizabeth Warner  wrote: 
> So you're going to hold the Smithsonian responsible for something that 
> happened 72 years ago?? Granted, what the reps of the Smithsonian did 
> way back then is not cool, but I don't think that "punishing" the 
> current institution is exactly fair either...
> 
> I mean, if we were to search and find something in your family history 
> that you're not proud of and then hold it against you, how would you feel??
> 
> Clear Skies!
> Elizabeth
> 
> 
> 
> MIke Antonelli wrote:
> > During my investigation and hunt for the Chicora meteorite, I found out the 
> > Smithsonian strong-armed the owners of the specimen that was found on their 
> > own land...Stating "You must turn this over in the name of science"...And 
> > they did...Granted, this was in 1938, but the truth of the matter is they 
> > came in, collected what little material there was, and split without so 
> > much as a thank you to the landowners. If I ever DO find that main 
> > mass,(and yes, it is still out there) they will get NONE of it...Sorry, but 
> > from the stories Ive heard about what took place back then (and yes, Ive 
> > gotten first hand accounts), it was not right, and they were even bullies 
> > about it! It was actually a hammer that tore the hide right off of a cow, 
> > that later that day had to be put down. Also a piece struck a chicken coop, 
> > and the other stone actually got tangled in a young girls dress as it came 
> > down. I have interviewed everyone that was there, that is still alive, and 
> > just
> >  talking to these folks made me somewhat ashamed of the Smith, and the way 
> > they handled things. 
> > __
> > Visit the Archives at 
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
> __
> Visit the Archives at 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list

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Re: [meteorite-list] A simple question

2010-03-10 Thread Elizabeth Warner

So you're going to hold the Smithsonian responsible for something that 
happened 72 years ago?? Granted, what the reps of the Smithsonian did 
way back then is not cool, but I don't think that "punishing" the 
current institution is exactly fair either...


I mean, if we were to search and find something in your family history 
that you're not proud of and then hold it against you, how would you feel??


Clear Skies!
Elizabeth



MIke Antonelli wrote:

During my investigation and hunt for the Chicora meteorite, I found out the Smithsonian 
strong-armed the owners of the specimen that was found on their own land...Stating 
"You must turn this over in the name of science"...And they did...Granted, this 
was in 1938, but the truth of the matter is they came in, collected what little material 
there was, and split without so much as a thank you to the landowners. If I ever DO find 
that main mass,(and yes, it is still out there) they will get NONE of it...Sorry, but 
from the stories Ive heard about what took place back then (and yes, Ive gotten first 
hand accounts), it was not right, and they were even bullies about it! It was actually a 
hammer that tore the hide right off of a cow, that later that day had to be put down. 
Also a piece struck a chicken coop, and the other stone actually got tangled in a young 
girls dress as it came down. I have interviewed everyone that was there, that is still 
alive, and just
 talking to these folks made me somewhat ashamed of the Smith, and the way they handled things. 
__

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[meteorite-list] A simple question

2010-03-10 Thread MIke Antonelli

During my investigation and hunt for the Chicora meteorite, I found out the 
Smithsonian strong-armed the owners of the specimen that was found on their own 
land...Stating "You must turn this over in the name of science"...And they 
did...Granted, this was in 1938, but the truth of the matter is they came in, 
collected what little material there was, and split without so much as a thank 
you to the landowners. If I ever DO find that main mass,(and yes, it is still 
out there) they will get NONE of it...Sorry, but from the stories Ive heard 
about what took place back then (and yes, Ive gotten first hand accounts), it 
was not right, and they were even bullies about it! It was actually a hammer 
that tore the hide right off of a cow, that later that day had to be put down. 
Also a piece struck a chicken coop, and the other stone actually got tangled in 
a young girls dress as it came down. I have interviewed everyone that was 
there, that is still alive, and just
 talking to these folks made me somewhat ashamed of the Smith, and the way they 
handled things. 
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[meteorite-list] Did you hear a boom Monday? It could possibly be...

2010-03-10 Thread Greg Stanley


Does anyone live near Shreveport LA?

Greg S.


http://www.ksla.com/Global/story.asp?S=12113685



Did you hear a boom Monday? It could possibly be...

Posted: Mar 09, 2010 7:30 PM PST Updated: Mar 09, 2010 7:30 PM PST

SHREVEPORT, LA (KSLA) – An enormous "boom" heard across parts of Louisiana on 
Monday remains a mystery. Lots of people are still wondering what caused the 
earth to shake.

The majority of parish leaders are saying it was more than likely a sonic boom 
heard across 6 parishes in north central Louisiana.

Science professor Don Wheeler says a sonic boom is a possibility and could be 
heard over such a large area.

He also is not ruling out a meteorite.

"Did we have an explosion? Yes," says Don Wheeler, Delta Community College 
Science Professor.

"Where was it? Don't think it was at ground level, based upon seismic data. So, 
probably something that was airborne; possibly a military jet or the meteor 
possibility, as it was entering the atmosphere coming from northwest to 
southeast."

An earthquake has been ruled out, since there was no seismic activity.
  
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Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question

2010-03-10 Thread Galactic Stone & Ironworks

Hi Jeff,

I think I speak for many when I say you are a voice of logic and
reason amidst the chaos and bickering on this issue (including my
own).

Hopefully the Meteoritical Society and IMCA will both be very vocal in
defense of common sense on this issue - this is not a time to sit
back, be silent, and let the bureaucrats bungle this up.

Like Martin Altmann has so eloquently stated (many times) - the status
quo prior to this new development was working better than most
realize.  Any tampering or further restrictions is going to hurt
everyone involved, to the benefit of none.

> If it isn't broken, don't fix it. <-

Best regards,

MikeG

On 3/10/10, Jeff Grossman  wrote:
> I just threw the number 50% out there because it seemed like a fair
> compromise.  Trust me, collectors won't get such a deal from the federal
> government on vertebrate fossils or cultural artifacts!  But in this
> case, everybody wins if the owner (the federal govt, representing the
> people) splits the specimens with individual finders.  Unlike the
> fossils and artifacts, meteorites can be divided without losing their
> major scientific value. Without a solution like this, everybody loses:
> the owners get nothing and anybody who collects meteorites could be a
> criminal.
>
> Jeff
>
> On 2010-03-10 3:19 PM, Greg Stanley wrote:
>> Now you're just being silly.
>>
>> I have a question to everyone who hunts Federal Lands:
>>
>> How many of you were FORCED... FORCED to give your meteorite(s) to the
>> Smithsonian?
>>
>>
>> Greg S.
>>
>> 
>>
>>> From: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net
>>> To: almi...@localnet.com; altm...@meteorite-martin.de
>>> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:13:38 -0600
>>> CC: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened
>>> toethics??
>>>
>>> No,
>>>
>>> But you will have to send half of the fish,
>>> if you catch any, to the Smithsonian...
>>>
>>>
>>> Sterling Webb
>>> --
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From:
>>> To: "Martin Altmann"
>>> Cc:
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:12 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened
>>> toethics??
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Martin and all,
>>>
>>> Next thing you know they will be putting a stop to fishing in this
>>> country.
>>>
>>> --AL Mitterling
>>>
>>> Quoting Martin Altmann :
>>>
>>>
 No, where did I?

 Jason.

 I like history. I like the Bulletins, I like modern natural science. I
 love
 meteorites.
 And, yes, I like my profession too,
 a profession, nobody has to be ashamed of.

 These are the four reasons,
 why I can't keep mum these years.

 Because I simply can't understand: Aren't they seeing, what they are
 doing?

 If only a single one could explain me,
 which the positive effects of the restrictive laws are or were
 in Australia, in Canada, in China, in Oman, in Algeria, in Argentina,
 in the
 Philippines, in Denmark, in Sudan, in Libya, in Namibia, in South
 Africa
 (?), now in USA, in Poland, in Russia (?), in Switzerland..

 then I promise to be much quieter.

 Perhaps you can help me with that?
 So far I see only, that they risk all.

 Thank you
 Martin

 -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
 Von: Jason Utas [mailto:meteorite...@gmail.com]
 Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. März 2010 01:05
 An: Martin Altmann; Meteorite-list
 Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...what
 happened
 toethics??

 So, what you're saying, Martin, is that you advocate hunters lying
 about where they find meteorites so that they can keep them.
 Because that was his question.
 ...Interesting.
 Jason

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>>>
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[meteorite-list] Italian boffins experience "ring aroud the Congo"

2010-03-10 Thread Darren Garrison

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/816812-scientists-find-giant-asteroid-crater-in-african-forest
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Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question

Jeff,
Again with all due respect. 
You said;
"the owners get nothing and anybody who collects meteorites could be a 
criminal. "
I agree with Sonny, How about 20% but of the first find only? Then they can buy 
any amount they want after that. 
Remember they would not even let OUR " Meteorite men"  Photograph OUR Tucson 
Irons. Who are these guys and why are we letting our Gov get away with this 
crap? 
Does the name Rosa Parks or Martin Luther king mean anything?
I don't think We the people will stand for being pushed around by our 
Government much longer.
They can only push so hard until we are forced to push back. You only have to 
be 18 or over to vote. 
The Smithsonian got away with stealing the Tucson Irons but, that battle may 
not be over yet? 
In the mean time if we don't like something within our Government we can make 
changes. Including changing Government officials that lack brains and foresight 
. 
It has already been said a million times. Why let these things just rust away? 
That truly is a no win situation. Yes. I am pressing send now. Sorry.
Carl
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax


 Jeff Grossman  wrote: 
> I just threw the number 50% out there because it seemed like a fair 
> compromise.  Trust me, collectors won't get such a deal from the federal 
> government on vertebrate fossils or cultural artifacts!  But in this 
> case, everybody wins if the owner (the federal govt, representing the 
> people) splits the specimens with individual finders.  Unlike the 
> fossils and artifacts, meteorites can be divided without losing their 
> major scientific value. Without a solution like this, everybody loses: 
> the owners get nothing and anybody who collects meteorites could be a 
> criminal.
> 
> Jeff
> 
> On 2010-03-10 3:19 PM, Greg Stanley wrote:
> > Now you're just being silly.
> >
> > I have a question to everyone who hunts Federal Lands:
> >
> > How many of you were FORCED... FORCED to give your meteorite(s) to the 
> > Smithsonian?
> >
> >
> > Greg S.
> >
> > 
> >
> >> From: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net
> >> To: almi...@localnet.com; altm...@meteorite-martin.de
> >> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:13:38 -0600
> >> CC: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened 
> >> toethics??
> >>
> >> No,
> >>
> >> But you will have to send half of the fish,
> >> if you catch any, to the Smithsonian...
> >>
> >>
> >> Sterling Webb
> >> --
> >> - Original Message -
> >> From:
> >> To: "Martin Altmann"
> >> Cc:
> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:12 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened
> >> toethics??
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi Martin and all,
> >>
> >> Next thing you know they will be putting a stop to fishing in this
> >> country.
> >>
> >> --AL Mitterling
> >>
> >> Quoting Martin Altmann :
> >>
> >>  
> >>> No, where did I?
> >>>
> >>> Jason.
> >>>
> >>> I like history. I like the Bulletins, I like modern natural science. I
> >>> love
> >>> meteorites.
> >>> And, yes, I like my profession too,
> >>> a profession, nobody has to be ashamed of.
> >>>
> >>> These are the four reasons,
> >>> why I can't keep mum these years.
> >>>
> >>> Because I simply can't understand: Aren't they seeing, what they are
> >>> doing?
> >>>
> >>> If only a single one could explain me,
> >>> which the positive effects of the restrictive laws are or were
> >>> in Australia, in Canada, in China, in Oman, in Algeria, in Argentina,
> >>> in the
> >>> Philippines, in Denmark, in Sudan, in Libya, in Namibia, in South
> >>> Africa
> >>> (?), now in USA, in Poland, in Russia (?), in Switzerland..
> >>>
> >>> then I promise to be much quieter.
> >>>
> >>> Perhaps you can help me with that?
> >>> So far I see only, that they risk all.
> >>>
> >>> Thank you
> >>> Martin
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> >>> Von: Jason Utas [mailto:meteorite...@gmail.com]
> >>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. März 2010 01:05
> >>> An: Martin Altmann; Meteorite-list
> >>> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...what
> >>> happened
> >>> toethics??
> >>>
> >>> So, what you're saying, Martin, is that you advocate hunters lying
> >>> about where they find meteorites so that they can keep them.
> >>> Because that was his question.
> >>> ...Interesting.
> >>> Jason
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> __
> >>> Visit the Archives at
> >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> >>> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> __
> >> Visit the Archives at
> >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com

Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question

I guess the lesson there is "careful what you wish for"!

;-)  That is too funny!



- Original Message 
From: Jeff Grossman 
To: Meteorite-list 
Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 1:53:17 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question

I agree.  20% for the collector and 80% for the Smithsonian. :)

On 2010-03-10 3:48 PM, wahlpe...@aol.com wrote:
> Hi Jeff and list,
>
>> I just threw the number 50% out there because it seemed like a fair 
> compromise.
>
> I like 20% better.  :)
>
> Sonny
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jeff Grossman 
> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Wed, Mar 10, 2010 12:35 pm
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question
>
>
> I just threw the number 50% out there because it seemed like a fair 
> compromise.  Trust me, collectors won't get such a deal from the 
> federal government on vertebrate fossils or cultural artifacts!  But 
> in this case, everybody wins if the owner (the federal govt, 
> representing the people) splits the specimens with individual 
> finders.  Unlike the fossils and artifacts, meteorites can be divided 
> without losing their major scientific value. Without a solution like 
> this, everybody loses: the owners get nothing and anybody who collects 
> meteorites could be a criminal.
>
> Jeff
>

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Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question

2010-03-10 Thread Gary Fujihara

Absolutely Mark,

You can make all the laws you want to govern the recovery of meteorites in 
America, but without the means to enforce this, it is a toothless legislation.

On Mar 10, 2010, at 11:01 AM, Mark Bowling wrote:

> It is all a matter of enforcement - and they aren't enforcing it in every 
> case (probably none of them, but the potential is there).  As it is now, they 
> can't keep the border sealed, so I doubt most feds in those districts care 
> because they have bigger worries.  They can't keep people from dumping trash 
> and abandoning vehicles.  So what is the harm of digging a few meteorites 
> (especially when most enthusiasts are eager to help in the progress of 
> meteoritics)?
> 
> Happy hunting,
> Mark B.
> Vail, AZ
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> - Original Message 
> From: Greg Stanley 
> To: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net; almi...@localnet.com; 
> altm...@meteorite-martin.de
> Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 1:19:37 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question
> 
> 
> Now you're just being silly.
> 
> I have a question to everyone who hunts Federal Lands:
> 
> How many of you were FORCED... FORCED to give your meteorite(s) to the 
> Smithsonian?
> 
> 
> Greg S.
> 
> 
>> From: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net
>> To: almi...@localnet.com; altm...@meteorite-martin.de
>> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:13:38 -0600
>> CC: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened 
>> toethics??
>> 
>> No,
>> 
>> But you will have to send half of the fish,
>> if you catch any, to the Smithsonian...
>> 
>> 
>> Sterling Webb
>> --
>> - Original Message -
>> From: 
>> To: "Martin Altmann" 
>> Cc: 
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:12 AM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened
>> toethics??
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Martin and all,
>> 
>> Next thing you know they will be putting a stop to fishing in this
>> country.
>> 
>> --AL Mitterling
>> 
>> Quoting Martin Altmann :
>> 
>>> No, where did I?
>>> 
>>> Jason.
>>> 
>>> I like history. I like the Bulletins, I like modern natural science. I
>>> love
>>> meteorites.
>>> And, yes, I like my profession too,
>>> a profession, nobody has to be ashamed of.
>>> 
>>> These are the four reasons,
>>> why I can't keep mum these years.
>>> 
>>> Because I simply can't understand: Aren't they seeing, what they are
>>> doing?
>>> 
>>> If only a single one could explain me,
>>> which the positive effects of the restrictive laws are or were
>>> in Australia, in Canada, in China, in Oman, in Algeria, in Argentina,
>>> in the
>>> Philippines, in Denmark, in Sudan, in Libya, in Namibia, in South
>>> Africa
>>> (?), now in USA, in Poland, in Russia (?), in Switzerland..
>>> 
>>> then I promise to be much quieter.
>>> 
>>> Perhaps you can help me with that?
>>> So far I see only, that they risk all.
>>> 
>>> Thank you
>>> Martin
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
>>> Von: Jason Utas [mailto:meteorite...@gmail.com]
>>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. März 2010 01:05
>>> An: Martin Altmann; Meteorite-list
>>> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...what
>>> happened
>>> toethics??
>>> 
>>> So, what you're saying, Martin, is that you advocate hunters lying
>>> about where they find meteorites so that they can keep them.
>>> Because that was his question.
>>> ...Interesting.
>>> Jason
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> __
>>> Visit the Archives at
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> __
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>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
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>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
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Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question

It is all a matter of enforcement - and they aren't enforcing it in every case 
(probably none of them, but the potential is there).  As it is now, they can't 
keep the border sealed, so I doubt most feds in those districts care because 
they have bigger worries.  They can't keep people from dumping trash and 
abandoning vehicles.  So what is the harm of digging a few meteorites 
(especially when most enthusiasts are eager to help in the progress of 
meteoritics)?

Happy hunting,
Mark B.
Vail, AZ


 


- Original Message 
From: Greg Stanley 
To: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net; almi...@localnet.com; 
altm...@meteorite-martin.de
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 1:19:37 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question


Now you're just being silly.

I have a question to everyone who hunts Federal Lands:

How many of you were FORCED... FORCED to give your meteorite(s) to the 
Smithsonian?


Greg S.


> From: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net
> To: almi...@localnet.com; altm...@meteorite-martin.de
> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:13:38 -0600
> CC: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened 
> toethics??
>
> No,
>
> But you will have to send half of the fish,
> if you catch any, to the Smithsonian...
>
>
> Sterling Webb
> --
> - Original Message -
> From: 
> To: "Martin Altmann" 
> Cc: 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:12 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened
> toethics??
>
>
> Hi Martin and all,
>
> Next thing you know they will be putting a stop to fishing in this
> country.
>
> --AL Mitterling
>
> Quoting Martin Altmann :
>
>> No, where did I?
>>
>> Jason.
>>
>> I like history. I like the Bulletins, I like modern natural science. I
>> love
>> meteorites.
>> And, yes, I like my profession too,
>> a profession, nobody has to be ashamed of.
>>
>> These are the four reasons,
>> why I can't keep mum these years.
>>
>> Because I simply can't understand: Aren't they seeing, what they are
>> doing?
>>
>> If only a single one could explain me,
>> which the positive effects of the restrictive laws are or were
>> in Australia, in Canada, in China, in Oman, in Algeria, in Argentina,
>> in the
>> Philippines, in Denmark, in Sudan, in Libya, in Namibia, in South
>> Africa
>> (?), now in USA, in Poland, in Russia (?), in Switzerland..
>>
>> then I promise to be much quieter.
>>
>> Perhaps you can help me with that?
>> So far I see only, that they risk all.
>>
>> Thank you
>> Martin
>>
>>
>> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
>> Von: Jason Utas [mailto:meteorite...@gmail.com]
>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. März 2010 01:05
>> An: Martin Altmann; Meteorite-list
>> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...what
>> happened
>> toethics??
>>
>> So, what you're saying, Martin, is that you advocate hunters lying
>> about where they find meteorites so that they can keep them.
>> Because that was his question.
>> ...Interesting.
>> Jason
>>
>>
>>
>> __
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
>
> __
> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
> Meteorite-list mailing list
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> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> __
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Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question

2010-03-10 Thread Jeff Grossman

I agree.  20% for the collector and 80% for the Smithsonian. :)

On 2010-03-10 3:48 PM, wahlpe...@aol.com wrote:

Hi Jeff and list,

I just threw the number 50% out there because it seemed like a fair 

compromise.

I like 20% better.   :)

Sonny

-Original Message-
From: Jeff Grossman 
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wed, Mar 10, 2010 12:35 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question

I just threw the number 50% out there because it seemed like a fair 
compromise.  Trust me, collectors won't get such a deal from the 
federal government on vertebrate fossils or cultural artifacts!  But 
in this case, everybody wins if the owner (the federal govt, 
representing the people) splits the specimens with individual 
finders.  Unlike the fossils and artifacts, meteorites can be divided 
without losing their major scientific value. Without a solution like 
this, everybody loses: the owners get nothing and anybody who collects 
meteorites could be a criminal.

Jeff

On 2010-03-10 3:19 PM, Greg Stanley wrote:

Now you're just being silly.

I have a question to everyone who hunts Federal Lands:

How many of you were FORCED... FORCED to give your meteorite(s) to 

the Smithsonian?

Greg S.

>> From: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net

To: almi...@localnet.com; altm...@meteorite-martin.de
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:13:38 -0600
CC: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder 

day...whathappened toethics??

No,

But you will have to send half of the fish,
if you catch any, to the Smithsonian...

Sterling Webb
--
- Original Message -
From:
To: "Martin Altmann"
Cc:
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder 

day...whathappened

toethics??

Hi Martin and all,

Next thing you know they will be putting a stop to fishing in this
country.

--AL Mitterling

Quoting Martin Altmann :

>>> No, where did I?

Jason.

I like history. I like the Bulletins, I like modern natural 

science. I

love
meteorites.
And, yes, I like my profession too,
a profession, nobody has to be ashamed of.

These are the four reasons,
why I can't keep mum these years.

Because I simply can't understand: Aren't they seeing, what they 

are

doing?

If only a single one could explain me,
which the positive effects of the restrictive laws are or were
in Australia, in Canada, in China, in Oman, in Algeria, in 

Argentina,

in the
Philippines, in Denmark, in Sudan, in Libya, in Namibia, in South
Africa
(?), now in USA, in Poland, in Russia (?), in Switzerland..

then I promise to be much quieter.

Perhaps you can help me with that?
So far I see only, that they risk all.

Thank you
Martin

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Jason Utas [mailto:meteorite...@gmail.com]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. März 2010 01:05
An: Martin Altmann; Meteorite-list
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...what
happened
toethics??

So, what you're saying, Martin, is that you advocate hunters lying
about where they find meteorites so that they can keep them.
Because that was his question.
...Interesting.
Jason

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Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question

2010-03-10 Thread James Balister



What always was a discuragement to me was that I have many meteorites that are 
an inch in size.  Many are unclassified NWA's .  Now if I were to send one to 
get tested to someone who usually wants a walnut sized rock, and wants a piece 
for "THE COLLECTION"  What's left?  
How much would the gov keep?  
- Original Message 
> From: Jeff Grossman 
> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Wed, March 10, 2010 2:35:23 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question
> 
> I just threw the number 50% out there because it seemed like a fair 
> 
compromise.  Trust me, collectors won't get such a deal from the 
> federal 
government on vertebrate fossils or cultural artifacts!  But in 
> this 
case, everybody wins if the owner (the federal govt, representing the 
> 
people) splits the specimens with individual finders.  Unlike the 
> 
fossils and artifacts, meteorites can be divided without losing their 
> 
major scientific value. Without a solution like this, everybody loses: 
> 
the owners get nothing and anybody who collects meteorites could be a 
> 
criminal.

Jeff

On 2010-03-10 3:19 PM, Greg Stanley 
> wrote:
> Now you're just being silly.
>
> I have a question to 
> everyone who hunts Federal Lands:
>
> How many of you were FORCED... 
> FORCED to give your meteorite(s) to the Smithsonian?
>
>
> 
> Greg S.
>
> 
>  
>   
>> From: > 
>> href="mailto:sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net";>sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net
>> 
> To: > href="mailto:almi...@localnet.com";>almi...@localnet.com; > 
> ymailto="mailto:altm...@meteorite-martin.de"; 
> href="mailto:altm...@meteorite-martin.de";>altm...@meteorite-martin.de
>> 
> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:13:38 -0600
>> CC: > ymailto="mailto:Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com"; 
> href="mailto:Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com";>Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>> 
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened 
> toethics??
>>
>> No,
>>
>> But you will have 
> to send half of the fish,
>> if you catch any, to the 
> Smithsonian...
>>
>>
>> Sterling Webb
>> 
> --
>> - 
> Original Message -
>> From:
>> To: "Martin 
> Altmann"
>> Cc:
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:12 
> AM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder 
> day...whathappened
>> toethics??
>>
>>
>> Hi 
> Martin and all,
>>
>> Next thing you know they will be putting 
> a stop to fishing in this
>> country.
>>
>> --AL 
> Mitterling
>>
>> Quoting Martin Altmann 
> :
>>
>>      
>>> No, where did 
> I?
>>>
>>> Jason.
>>>
>>> I like 
> history. I like the Bulletins, I like modern natural science. I
>>> 
> love
>>> meteorites.
>>> And, yes, I like my profession 
> too,
>>> a profession, nobody has to be ashamed 
> of.
>>>
>>> These are the four reasons,
>>> 
> why I can't keep mum these years.
>>>
>>> Because I 
> simply can't understand: Aren't they seeing, what they are
>>> 
> doing?
>>>
>>> If only a single one could explain 
> me,
>>> which the positive effects of the restrictive laws are or 
> were
>>> in Australia, in Canada, in China, in Oman, in Algeria, in 
> Argentina,
>>> in the
>>> Philippines, in Denmark, in 
> Sudan, in Libya, in Namibia, in South
>>> Africa
>>> 
> (?), now in USA, in Poland, in Russia (?), in 
> Switzerland..
>>>
>>> then I promise to be much 
> quieter.
>>>
>>> Perhaps you can help me with 
> that?
>>> So far I see only, that they risk 
> all.
>>>
>>> Thank you
>>> 
> Martin
>>>
>>>
>>> -Ursprüngliche 
> Nachricht-
>>> Von: Jason Utas [mailto:> ymailto="mailto:meteorite...@gmail.com"; 
> href="mailto:meteorite...@gmail.com";>meteorite...@gmail.com]
>>> 
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. März 2010 01:05
>>> An: Martin Altmann; 
> Meteorite-list
>>> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even 
> sadder day...what
>>> happened
>>> 
> toethics??
>>>
>>> So, what you're saying, Martin, is 
> that you advocate hunters lying
>>> about where they find meteorites 
> so that they can keep them.
>>> Because that was his 
> question.
>>> ...Interesting.
>>> 
> Jason
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
> __
>>> Visit the 
> Archives at
>>> 
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>>> 
> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> > ymailto="mailto:Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com"; 
> href="mailto:Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com";>Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>>> 
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>>
>>>  
>       
>>
>>
>> 
> __
>> Visit the Archives 
> at
>> > href="http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html"; 
>> > target=_blank 
> >http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> 
> Meteorite-list mailing list
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> href="mailto:Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com";>Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>> 
> > >http://six.

Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question

2010-03-10 Thread Darren Garrison

On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 15:27:31 -0500, you wrote:

>Hi Greg and all,
>
>Not a silly question if you like fish! Seriously, the minors who had a legal 
>claim where the Old Woman was found had their meteorite taken from them. I 

Well, that's your problem right there-- you can't enter into a legal agreement
with a minor!

(Sorry!  Sorry!)
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Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question

2010-03-10 Thread wahlperry


Hi Jeff and list,

I just threw the number 50% out there because it seemed like a fair 

compromise.

I like 20% better.   :)

Sonny


-Original Message-
From: Jeff Grossman 
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wed, Mar 10, 2010 12:35 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question


I just threw the number 50% out there because it seemed like a fair 
compromise.  Trust me, collectors won't get such a deal from the 
federal government on vertebrate fossils or cultural artifacts!  But in 
this case, everybody wins if the owner (the federal govt, representing 
the people) splits the specimens with individual finders.  Unlike the 
fossils and artifacts, meteorites can be divided without losing their 
major scientific value. Without a solution like this, everybody loses: 
the owners get nothing and anybody who collects meteorites could be a 
criminal. 

 
Jeff 
 
On 2010-03-10 3:19 PM, Greg Stanley wrote: 

Now you're just being silly. 
 
I have a question to everyone who hunts Federal Lands: 
 
How many of you were FORCED... FORCED to give your meteorite(s) to 

the Smithsonian? 

 
 
Greg S. 
 
 
   >> From: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net 

To: almi...@localnet.com; altm...@meteorite-martin.de 
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:13:38 -0600 
CC: meteorite-l...@meteoritecentral.com 
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder 

day...whathappened toethics?? 

 
No, 
 
But you will have to send half of the fish, 
if you catch any, to the Smithsonian... 
 
 
Sterling Webb 
-- 
- Original Message - 
From: 
To: "Martin Altmann" 
Cc: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:12 AM 
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder 

day...whathappened 

toethics?? 
 
 
Hi Martin and all, 
 
Next thing you know they will be putting a stop to fishing in this 
country. 
 
--AL Mitterling 
 
Quoting Martin Altmann : 
 
 >>> No, where did I? 

 
Jason. 
 
I like history. I like the Bulletins, I like modern natural 

science. I 

love 
meteorites. 
And, yes, I like my profession too, 
a profession, nobody has to be ashamed of. 
 
These are the four reasons, 
why I can't keep mum these years. 
 
Because I simply can't understand: Aren't they seeing, what they 

are 

doing? 
 
If only a single one could explain me, 
which the positive effects of the restrictive laws are or were 
in Australia, in Canada, in China, in Oman, in Algeria, in 

Argentina, 

in the 
Philippines, in Denmark, in Sudan, in Libya, in Namibia, in South 
Africa 
(?), now in USA, in Poland, in Russia (?), in Switzerland.. 
 
then I promise to be much quieter. 
 
Perhaps you can help me with that? 
So far I see only, that they risk all. 
 
Thank you 
Martin 
 
 
-Ursprüngliche Nachricht- 
Von: Jason Utas [mailto:meteorite...@gmail.com] 
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. März 2010 01:05 
An: Martin Altmann; Meteorite-list 
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...what 
happened 
toethics?? 
 
So, what you're saying, Martin, is that you advocate hunters lying 
about where they find meteorites so that they can keep them. 
Because that was his question. 
...Interesting. 
Jason 
 
 
 
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meteorite-l...@meteoritecentral.com 
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 
 
   >> 

 
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-- Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman   phone: (703) 648-6184 
US Geological Survey  fax:   (703) 648-6383 
954 National Center 
Reston, VA 20192, USA 
 
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[meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened toethics??

2010-03-10 Thread JoshuaTreeMuseum


No,

But you will have to send half of the fish,
if you catch any, to the Smithsonian...


Sterling Webb


...
And since the Smithsonian loves antiquities, you should let the fish sit 
around unrefrigerated for a week or two before sending.



No really , I love the Smithsonian.
Sincerely,

Phil Whitmer 


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Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question

2010-03-10 Thread Jeff Grossman

I just threw the number 50% out there because it seemed like a fair 
compromise.  Trust me, collectors won't get such a deal from the federal 
government on vertebrate fossils or cultural artifacts!  But in this 
case, everybody wins if the owner (the federal govt, representing the 
people) splits the specimens with individual finders.  Unlike the 
fossils and artifacts, meteorites can be divided without losing their 
major scientific value. Without a solution like this, everybody loses: 
the owners get nothing and anybody who collects meteorites could be a 
criminal.


Jeff

On 2010-03-10 3:19 PM, Greg Stanley wrote:

Now you're just being silly.

I have a question to everyone who hunts Federal Lands:

How many of you were FORCED... FORCED to give your meteorite(s) to the 
Smithsonian?


Greg S.


   

From: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net
To: almi...@localnet.com; altm...@meteorite-martin.de
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:13:38 -0600
CC: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened 
toethics??

No,

But you will have to send half of the fish,
if you catch any, to the Smithsonian...


Sterling Webb
--
- Original Message -
From:
To: "Martin Altmann"
Cc:
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened
toethics??


Hi Martin and all,

Next thing you know they will be putting a stop to fishing in this
country.

--AL Mitterling

Quoting Martin Altmann :

 

No, where did I?

Jason.

I like history. I like the Bulletins, I like modern natural science. I
love
meteorites.
And, yes, I like my profession too,
a profession, nobody has to be ashamed of.

These are the four reasons,
why I can't keep mum these years.

Because I simply can't understand: Aren't they seeing, what they are
doing?

If only a single one could explain me,
which the positive effects of the restrictive laws are or were
in Australia, in Canada, in China, in Oman, in Algeria, in Argentina,
in the
Philippines, in Denmark, in Sudan, in Libya, in Namibia, in South
Africa
(?), now in USA, in Poland, in Russia (?), in Switzerland..

then I promise to be much quieter.

Perhaps you can help me with that?
So far I see only, that they risk all.

Thank you
Martin


-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Jason Utas [mailto:meteorite...@gmail.com]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. März 2010 01:05
An: Martin Altmann; Meteorite-list
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...what
happened
toethics??

So, what you're saying, Martin, is that you advocate hunters lying
about where they find meteorites so that they can keep them.
Because that was his question.
...Interesting.
Jason



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US Geological Survey  fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA


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Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question

2010-03-10 Thread Larry & Twink Monrad

As I had said on this list a few weeks ago, the original Gold Basin team of 
three gave a percentage of our first finds to the Smithsonian as that is 
what the University of Arizona asked us to do and we did it willingly and 
cheerfully.


Twink Monrad

Re:
I have a question to everyone who hunts Federal Lands:

How many of you were FORCED... FORCED to give your meteorite(s) to the 
Smithsonian?



Greg S.


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Re: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question

2010-03-10 Thread al mitt


Hi Greg and all,

Not a silly question if you like fish! Seriously, the minors who had a legal 
claim where the Old Woman was found had their meteorite taken from them. I 
don't know off hand if there are any other records out there of anyone else 
having this happen.


Sue the dinosaur was taken from the finders after they went to the trouble 
of digging her up and had went through the proper channels.


--AL Mitterling

- Original Message - 
From: "Greg Stanley" 
To: ; ; 


Cc: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 3:19 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] A Simple Question



Now you're just being silly.

I have a question to everyone who hunts Federal Lands:

How many of you were FORCED... FORCED to give your meteorite(s) to the 
Smithsonian?



Greg S.



From: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net
To: almi...@localnet.com; altm...@meteorite-martin.de
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:13:38 -0600
CC: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened 
toethics??


No,

But you will have to send half of the fish,
if you catch any, to the Smithsonian...


Sterling Webb
--
- Original Message -
From:
To: "Martin Altmann"
Cc:
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened
toethics??


Hi Martin and all,

Next thing you know they will be putting a stop to fishing in this
country.

--AL Mitterling

Quoting Martin Altmann :


No, where did I?

Jason.

I like history. I like the Bulletins, I like modern natural science. I
love
meteorites.
And, yes, I like my profession too,
a profession, nobody has to be ashamed of.

These are the four reasons,
why I can't keep mum these years.

Because I simply can't understand: Aren't they seeing, what they are
doing?

If only a single one could explain me,
which the positive effects of the restrictive laws are or were
in Australia, in Canada, in China, in Oman, in Algeria, in Argentina,
in the
Philippines, in Denmark, in Sudan, in Libya, in Namibia, in South
Africa
(?), now in USA, in Poland, in Russia (?), in Switzerland..

then I promise to be much quieter.

Perhaps you can help me with that?
So far I see only, that they risk all.

Thank you
Martin


-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Jason Utas [mailto:meteorite...@gmail.com]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. März 2010 01:05
An: Martin Altmann; Meteorite-list
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...what
happened
toethics??

So, what you're saying, Martin, is that you advocate hunters lying
about where they find meteorites so that they can keep them.
Because that was his question.
...Interesting.
Jason



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[meteorite-list] A Simple Question

2010-03-10 Thread Greg Stanley


Now you're just being silly.

I have a question to everyone who hunts Federal Lands:

How many of you were FORCED... FORCED to give your meteorite(s) to the 
Smithsonian?


Greg S.


> From: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net
> To: almi...@localnet.com; altm...@meteorite-martin.de
> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:13:38 -0600
> CC: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened 
> toethics??
>
> No,
>
> But you will have to send half of the fish,
> if you catch any, to the Smithsonian...
>
>
> Sterling Webb
> --
> - Original Message -
> From: 
> To: "Martin Altmann" 
> Cc: 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:12 AM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened
> toethics??
>
>
> Hi Martin and all,
>
> Next thing you know they will be putting a stop to fishing in this
> country.
>
> --AL Mitterling
>
> Quoting Martin Altmann :
>
>> No, where did I?
>>
>> Jason.
>>
>> I like history. I like the Bulletins, I like modern natural science. I
>> love
>> meteorites.
>> And, yes, I like my profession too,
>> a profession, nobody has to be ashamed of.
>>
>> These are the four reasons,
>> why I can't keep mum these years.
>>
>> Because I simply can't understand: Aren't they seeing, what they are
>> doing?
>>
>> If only a single one could explain me,
>> which the positive effects of the restrictive laws are or were
>> in Australia, in Canada, in China, in Oman, in Algeria, in Argentina,
>> in the
>> Philippines, in Denmark, in Sudan, in Libya, in Namibia, in South
>> Africa
>> (?), now in USA, in Poland, in Russia (?), in Switzerland..
>>
>> then I promise to be much quieter.
>>
>> Perhaps you can help me with that?
>> So far I see only, that they risk all.
>>
>> Thank you
>> Martin
>>
>>
>> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
>> Von: Jason Utas [mailto:meteorite...@gmail.com]
>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. März 2010 01:05
>> An: Martin Altmann; Meteorite-list
>> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...what
>> happened
>> toethics??
>>
>> So, what you're saying, Martin, is that you advocate hunters lying
>> about where they find meteorites so that they can keep them.
>> Because that was his question.
>> ...Interesting.
>> Jason
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened toethics??

2010-03-10 Thread Sterling K. Webb


No,

But you will have to send half of the fish,
if you catch any, to the Smithsonian...


Sterling Webb
--
- Original Message - 
From: 

To: "Martin Altmann" 
Cc: 
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...whathappened 
toethics??



Hi Martin and all,

Next thing you know they will be putting a stop to fishing in this 
country.


--AL Mitterling

Quoting Martin Altmann :


No, where did I?

Jason.

I like history. I like the Bulletins, I like modern natural science. I 
love

meteorites.
And, yes, I like my profession too,
a profession, nobody has to be ashamed of.

These are the four reasons,
why I can't keep mum these years.

Because I simply can't understand: Aren't they seeing, what they are 
doing?


If only a single one could explain me,
which the positive effects of the restrictive laws are or were
in Australia, in Canada, in China, in Oman, in Algeria, in Argentina, 
in the
Philippines, in Denmark, in Sudan, in Libya, in Namibia, in South 
Africa

(?), now in USA, in Poland, in Russia (?), in Switzerland..

then I promise to be much quieter.

Perhaps you can help me with that?
So far I see only, that they risk all.

Thank you
Martin


-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Jason Utas [mailto:meteorite...@gmail.com]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 10. März 2010 01:05
An: Martin Altmann; Meteorite-list
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] It's now an even sadder day...what 
happened

toethics??

So, what you're saying, Martin, is that you advocate hunters lying
about where they find meteorites so that they can keep them.
Because that was his question.
...Interesting.
Jason



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[meteorite-list] AD - Exotic New Carbonaceous CK5 NWA 6026, Allende, CO3.3, Karoonda, Murchison, Lodranite, Tumbled uNWA

2010-03-10 Thread Galactic Stone & Ironworks

Hi Folks,

I have an exciting announcement - I am now offering (exclusively) NWA
6026, a new carbonaceous chondrite CK5! This is a low-TKW meteorite
(244gr), and I am slicing up the main mass into whole slices and part
slices. I have specimens of this meteorite to fit every budget from
$5 to $500. If you don't see a piece in your price range, let me
know, and you can reserve a part slice from the next (and final) batch
of cuts that I make from the dwindling main mass.

This CK5 is fresh (W1/W2) and it contains shock veins (S2),
well-defined chondrules, CAI's, and very fine metallic grains. It's
matrix is riddled with small shock veins, which give the appearance of
brecciation. It's a very pretty meteorite of a very rare type. The
customers on my personal mailing list have already snapped up a few of
the largest slices, so the full slices I have listed now are all that
remains. There will be no more large slices over 6 grams. I still
retain a small endcut, so I will make some smaller part slices in the
near future, but nothing nearly as big as the whole slices listed now.
Take a look at the photos and compare prices to other CK5's on the
market. I think you'll agree that this is a good offer and these
specimens won't last long. Don't forget, as a Met List subscriber,
you get a 20% discount on all orders over $10, so you can deduct 20%
from the prices listed on website to get the actual price you will
pay. (use coupon code "metlist" at checkout)

http://www.galactic-stone.com/products/nwa-6026-ck5

I also have micromounts and macromounts of several other carbonaceous
meteorites, including Karoonda, Allende, NWA 4439, NWA 5950, and
Murchison :

http://www.galactic-stone.com/products/carbonaceous

Tumble polished unclassified meteorites (for jewelry or crafts) :

http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/unwa-stony-meteorites--tumble-polished-lot-85gr--great-for-jewelry

Big nickel-finish Canyon Diablo iron (285gr) :

http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/canyon-diablo-iron-meteorite--large-nickel-finish-285gr-individual

See all of the newest offerings here :

http://www.galactic-stone.com/products/brand-new

And now a few more words about the NWA 6026 CK5 meteorite :

NWA 6026 was purchased in Morocco in 2009. It was submitted for
classification (Humboldt University, Berlin) and received the
provisional NWA number 6026 in January 2010. The specimen consisted
of a single mass weighing 244 grams with fresh glossy black fusion
crust. It has a weathering grade of W1/W2 and a shock grade of S2.
The interior is quite fresh with CAI's and small shock veins set in a
characteristic blue-grey background matrix of magnetite-rich material.
Other classification data : Fa mol% 0.7-31.7, Fs mol% 1.9-5.6.

CK type specimens vary from other carbonaceous chondrites because they
have experienced violent conditions during their history. Like other
carbonaceous chondrites, they represent a primitive material from the
earliest days of the primordial solar nebula, but most carbonaceous
chondrites are relatively unaltered and pristine. CK types have
experienced non-aqueous oxidizing conditions as a result of heat and
shock that was caused by violent collisions in the early chaos of the
solar system. Because of this, they have a characteristic greyish
blue matrix that owes it's color to the presence of magnetite inside
the iron-rich olivine-bearing material. CK meteorites also contain
large CAI inclusions (Calcium Aluminum Inclusions), which are known to
be the oldest matter in the solar system, having condensed from the
solar nebula millions of years before the formation of chondrules.
Also, because of the CK's violent history, most of these meteorite
exhibit some degree of shock and shock veins. At first, scientists
thought that CK meteorites were part of the Vigarano (CV) family, and
they were labelled as CV4 or CV5 meteorites. But now it is known that
CK meteorites are a distinctly different class of meteorite that
originates from an unknown parent body that is different from other
carbonaceous chondrites. CK meteorites are subdivided into petrologic
grades 3-6, with 6 being the most metamorphosed and CK4 being the most
common.

To put this scarcity of this meteorite into perspective, consider the
following :

1) There have been approx. 30,000 meteorites to be officially
classified, and this includes all meteorites that originated from
Antarctica and the deserts of North West Africa. Out of many
thousands of meteorites to be found, only 80 have been classified as
CK5.

2) Of the 80 known CK5 meteorites, 67 of them were found in Antarctica
by official government expeditions and are only available for
scientific study - they are forever locked away from the collector's
market.

3) The majority of the Antarctic CK5 meteorites are tiny stones
weighing 10 or less grams from paired finds. Only 4 of the Antarctic
finds weigh more than 100 grams, and only one weighs more than 1000
grams. In other words - these 67 A

[meteorite-list] Tagish Lake Sets & More - AD

2010-03-10 Thread Greg Hupe


[repost] Please try the links now, should be working...

Good Evening List!

I would like to draw your attention to some pretty neat Tagish Lake Display
Sets I put together last week. This is the first time I have ever offered
these and the first set of auctions will end tomorrow (Wednesday, March
10th). I thought it would be fun to create something comet-related to offer
collectors. Please also see below links to a Park Forest "Garza" Artifact
Kit and some other rare meteorites.

Tagish Lake Carbonaceous Display Sets:
50mg Material Set
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170454227985&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT
100mg Material Set
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350324175260&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT
22mg fragment
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170454226523&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

Park Forest "Garza" Artifact Kit
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170454235026&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

...and several other achondrites can be found by clicking here:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault

Thank you for looking and bidding, "Good Luck" winning what you are after!

Best regards,
Greg


Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmh...@htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163

Click here for my current eBay auctions: 
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault


- Original Message - 
From: "Greg Hupe" 

To: 
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 10:13 PM
Subject: Tagish Lake Sets & More - AD


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Re: [meteorite-list] 5 reasons to record meteorite coordinates

2010-03-10 Thread Martin Altmann

Jason,

I think we differ in an essential point.

In my opinion the phase in meteoritic science and planetology of sampling
celestial bodies by the means of meteorites to understand their formation,
composition, history and to learn about the solar system and the Earth,
is not yet completed.

At least not yet finished to that degree, that aspects like the
terrestrialization, weathering, type populations, atmospheric flights,
should come to the fore in meteoritic science and the research on the
extraterrestrial properties of the meteorites would take a back seat.

Not a year of the last both decades, were not new meteorites with absolutely
new stunning information were recovered. 
Unfortunately - I know, that you might be not so firm in meteoritic
statistics - such exceptional meteorites can be only found, if a very large
number of new meteorites are found.

You're more or less suggesting that we should leave that to upcoming
generations.
You have to excuse my impatience, but I'm living now. 
And the scientists too.

And if we would leave the recovery to upcoming generations, I simply have no
faith, that this will happen.
The official expeditions are tending to a zero-point. In the 1980ies -
1990ies there were still some last ones, but then?
If such an important and wealthy meteorite country like Australia, isn't
able to set up a single searching expedition in the last 15 years.
(Before were three, two of them sponsored by the Europeans).

And Sahara - most productive meteorite area on the globe, before Antarctica.
Nothing there. Euromet tried in once - without success. 
And else? Maybe a few of the Ilfaehgs - I'm not so well informed. That's
all.
Well and in USA - remember that some on the list were somewhat astonished,
that only Art Ehlmann found his way to the West-strewnfield?

The only regular expedition to recover hot desert meteorites on Earth,
Is the Suisse-Oman-team - according there website 3-6 people, 3-6 weeks once
per year.

In Europe, in Russia, in Australia the institutes moan about the blatant
lack of funds. In all Sahara countries, without now Morocco, and in Oman no
meteorite departments exist at all.
China with its enormous surface - there are virtually no meteorites
recovered.

So there is not much reason to adhere the illusion, that the field work and
the recovery work the private sector did, will ever done in future by
institutional expeditions.

Well and you obviously are not aware, how the very most meteorites aside
Antarctica found their way into the labs and the museums.

For 200 years there was a symbiosis between the private people who found
meteorites. Make your stats, note that in the recent 20 years the private
sector had let the find rates explode.

Now all these new laws mean nothing than, if you don't believe in an end,
nothing else than a huge hiatus in meteorite history and meteorite science.

In my eyes absolutely unnecessary.

I won't argue about single falls with you.
Check all the falls from Ourique on - who had found them, who had collected
the tkws and who made the documentation and publications about the fall
documentation, if there exist any- than you'll see. 

Semarkona and so on... btw. aren't you know at an university? Try to get a
non NWA-bracchinite - unfortunately all were found in Australia, much luck
in asking for some from down-under.

Joking aside. Can't you use once the Meteoritical Bulletin database?
Can't you see what happened in the last 10-20 years?
The privates produced several Semarkonas, Orgueils and so on - by far more
than ever were found in history and ever will be found in Antarctica.
Some hunters and dealers brought to light each of them much more weight and
much more different meteorites of a rare type, than the 33 years Japanese,
Chinese, American and European Antarctic campaigns yielded.
(And at what for little money for the institutes!).

You can't be serious, if you would deny the importance of these recoveries
and the advances for science they meant.


>Well, it's keeping some out.

What do you mean? It's keeping all out. And especially these, who are
responsible for us today knowing, that there are so many meteorites found in
Oman at all. Same applies to Sahara.

And - such laws, preventing any private possession or even hunting lead to
the fact, that first of all nobody is setting a foot outside the door to
find meteorites at all - and that those, who will do it still, will tend
obscure their finds and will misreport coordinates, because their finds have
no legal status anymore - therefore also for your basic concern such laws
are not useful.

>And many more lunar and martian and rare meteorites were found because of
>the documentation. 

So is it o.k. to say to these Martian and Moon finders: Thank you for having
feathered our nest, to have enlightened us, that in Oman there are such
things to be found and where,
Here you have our wet handclasp (as we say in German), from now on you're
criminal and you have to stay out.
Not my conce

Re: [meteorite-list] Mea culpa