Re: [meteorite-list] The Denver Show!!!
Thanks for the info, Bob. I'm in Utah tonight, completing the journey tomorrow. See you there. Linton - Original Message - From: Bob Loeffler b...@peaktopeak.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 10:55 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The Denver Show!!! Hi Shawn, A couple of the shows have already opened to the public, including the Colorado Mineral and Fossil Show at the Holiday Inn which opened today. There are usually several meteorite dealers at that show. Their website is: http://www.mzexpos.com/colorado_fall.htm The Denver Gem and Mineral Show (some people call it the main show or the club show) opens to the public on Friday morning at 9am. This one has one meteorite dealer (Meteorhall) and is located at the Denver Merchandise Mart. The show's website is: http://www.DenverMineralShow.com And KD Meteorites is at the Coliseum Show again this year. That show's website is: http://www.coliseumshow.com I don't think any of the other shows in Denver will have any meteorites, but I could be wrong. As for a sneak peek of the hottest items, I'll have to leave that up to the other listoids. I won't be able to make it to the others shows because I'll be working at the main Show until Sunday. Hopefully some people will take photos of the meteorites and people in Denver. I hope to go to the COMETS Auction and Party on Friday night. If I do, I'll try to take photos and then put them on the COMETS website (link below). Oh, I met John Kashuba today at the Colorado School of Mines' Geology Museum Open House tonight. Very nice guy. Anne Black, Dan Wray and his wife were also there, along with at least 100 other people who love rocks, minerals, gems (and I'm sure meteorites too). Dan Wray helped set up the meteorites displays at the museum over the past year and they look wonderful, so if you are in the Denver area for the Show, or later on, check out the School of Mines Geology Museum. It's FREE every day. Regards, Bob Loeffler COMETS (COlorado METeorite Society) http://www.peaktopeak.com/comets/ Webmaster and Asst. Dealer Chairman Denver Gem and Mineral Show http://www.DenverMineralShow.com Field Trip Chairman and Webmaster North Jeffco Gem Mineral Club (Arvada, CO USA) http://www.peaktopeak.com/njeffco/index.php Check out the largest Colorado Rockhounding website at: http://www.peaktopeak.com/colorado/index.php3 -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Alan Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 3:25 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] The Denver Show!!! Hello Listers, I am wondering how the Denver show is looking. I did read that some dealers were going to be there as early as Monday. I know the show really doesnt start till tomorrow, but I wonder if any of the Listers have a sneak peek preview of the show and what the hottest selling items are. And photo would be great :) Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=_armrs=1_from=_ipg=_trksid=p 4340 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.441 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3085 - Release Date: 08/21/10 06:35:00 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD: New L6 Chondrite for Sale
Hi Everyone, I'd like to introduce you to a brand new stone--NWA 6160 (Provisional). It's a beautiful L6 chondrite (W1/2, S2) which would make a handsome addition to any collection, large or small. Many easily affordable pieces are available, but with a TKW of only 333g, there's not much of this to go around...only a few dozen pieces and that's it! I submitted it for analysis due to it's unusual aromatic perfume like odor, but the analysis did not provide any clues to the origins of the odor. I was told, however that it does have trace amounts of native copper. The analysis report from Dr. Irving at the University of Washington is as follows: Largely recrystallized with some indistinct chondrules. Olivine (Fa24.2-24.6), orthopyroxene (Fs20.9-21.3Wo1.8-1.7), sparse clinopyroxene, sodic plagioclase, chromite, kamacite and troilite. For a list of available specimens and pricing, please visit the following link: http://meteoritetreasures.com/nwa6160?___store=default Shipping is only $2.50 to anywhere in the world via first class air mail. Insurance is additional, if desired, and is the responsibility of the buyer. Please email me using the contact links on the page (or reply to this message) to let me know if you're interested in something. Mention this message and I'll give you 10% off your entire purchase. Aloha, Matthew Meteorite Treasures www.meteoritetreasures.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Nanodiamonds Discovered in Greenland Ice Sheet, Contribute to Evidence for Cosmic Impact
I'm not sure if this made the list sorry if it is old news. Elton Nanodiamonds Discovered in Greenland Ice Sheet, Contribute to Evidence for Cosmic Impact ScienceDaily (Sep. 15, 2010) — Nanosize diamonds have been discovered in the Greenland ice sheet, according to a study reported by scientists in a recent online publication of the Journal of Glaciology. The finding adds credence to the controversial hypothesis that fragments of a comet struck across North America and Europe approximately 12,900 years ago. There is a layer in the ice with a great abundance of diamonds, said co-author James Kennett, professor emeritus in the Department of Earth Science at UC Santa Barbara. Most exciting to us is that this is the first such discrete layer of diamonds ever found in glacial ice anywhere on Earth, including the huge polar ice sheets and the alpine glaciers. The diamonds are so tiny that they can only be observed with special, highly magnifying microscopes. They number in the trillions. This discovery supports earlier published evidence for a cosmic impact event about 12,900 years ago, Kennett explained. He said that the available evidence in the Greenland ice is consistent with this layer being at or close to this age, although further study is needed. Researchers from the University of Maine led the expedition to Greenland in 2008. Co-authors on the study, besides Kennett and the team from Maine, include scientists from many universities and research entities. James Kennett's son, Douglas J. Kennett, of the University of Oregon, is one of the 21 scientists who contributed to the report. Last year, the Kennetts reported the discovery of nanosize diamonds in a layer of sediment exposed on Santa Rosa Island, off the coast of Santa Barbara, Calif. They published this information with numerous co-authors in two papers last year in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences and Science magazine. According to James Kennett, the Greenland results also contradict a recent study questioning the presence of nanodiamonds in a layer of this age. Kennett explained that the layer containing nanodiamonds on Santa Rosa Island, as well as those in the Greenland ice sheet -- both supporting a cosmic impact event -- appear to closely correspond to the time of the disappearance of the Clovis culture, the earliest well-established and well-accepted human culture living across North America. The event also corresponds with the time of extinction of many large animals across North America, including mammoths, camels, horses, and the saber tooth cat. There is also evidence of widespread wildfires at that time, said Kennett. An associated sharp climatic cooling called the Younger Dryas cooling is also recorded widely over the northern hemisphere. This includes evidence found in ocean-drilled sediments beneath the Santa Barbara Channel. The cause of this cooling has long been debated as well as the cause of the animal extinctions and human cultural shift. A high proportion of the nanosize diamonds in the Greenland ice sheet exhibit hexagonal mineral structure, and these are only known to occur on Earth in association with known cosmic impact events, said Kennett. This layer of diamonds corresponds with the sedimentary layer known as the Younger Dryas Boundary, dating to 12,900 years ago. James Kennett, former director of the Marine Science Institute at UCSB, is considered by many of his peers to be an early founder of marine geology and paleoceanography. He has specialized in analyzing sedimentary layers below the ocean floor. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] other hobbies? (addendum)
Totally forgot this on my list: * collecting uniform patches from the Military (esp. Black) Space Program A number of them (not all) can be seen here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NRO_satellites This started as a spin-off of my satellite observations, which is focussing on 'black' satellites (see http://sattrackcam.blogspot.com) - Marco Okay, here is my list: * Astronomy: observing classified satellites; * Astronomy: observing meteors (once my main activity, now much less); * Astronomy: hunting minor planets (recently less so too); * photography: macro (esp. Dragonflies) * photography: panorama * meteorite collecting; * books (esp. about New Guinea expeditions); * geology; At one time or another, I have also for a while been: * painting; * sculpturing; There are a few more things I dabble or dabbled in, but wouldn't call hobbies - Marco __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Other hobbies?
I absolutely agree. What an interesting bunch of experts. We live in fascinating times ... - Geomorphology of deserts - photographing insects, focussing on Hymenoptera and Coleoptera - collecting propaganda leaflets dropped during armed conflicts, from World War I to present - (quit skydiving a couple of years ago) Cheers, Svend Darryl Pitt dar...@dof3.com hat am 15. September 2010 um 21:40 geschrieben: I just bundled together the hobby emails i missed Wow. what an interesting group and such fascinating interests. I love it. It's funny, among my friends my fascination with meteorites makes me seem rather exotic---but not in this crowd: --antiquarian maps --photographing flowers ;-) Wishing everyone all the best / Darryl On Sep 15, 2010, at 3:18 PM, Jan Bartels wrote: Collecting movie props. Especially from Close Encounters of the Third Kind. See all props here: www.yourprops/user/brubaned Keeping and breeding venamous snakes and scorpions.and stll alive after 30 years in this hobby!! Best, Jan. IMCA 9833 - Original Message - From: tracy latimer daist...@hotmail.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 8:45 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Other hobbies? Most of the things I do are too diffuse to count as hobbies: Home improvement (DH and I have an agreement: he keeps the computers happy, and I keep the house going.) Reading. I work in a library, and have first dibs on all new material. 'Nuff said! Paintball, although we haven't played for many years now. War-, computer, and role playing games. We have a weekly gaming session, plus online gaming. I collect semiprecious gems as well as meteorites, but not seriously. I also do various craft-type things, as diverse as quilting, wood carving, printmaking and jewelry making. Astronomy, especially promoting it to children. Next week, I've arranged for telescope time on one of the big Haleakala telescopes via the Maui branch of the Institute for Astronomy (UH), to be controlled through an Internet connection and viewed at our library. This will be the 4th time we've done this, and it's a real crowd pleaser. That's all I can think of for now. Best! Tracy Latimer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3134 - Release Date: 09/14/10 08:35:00 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Supernova Shrapnel Found in Meteorite
Yet another meteorite related news item. Check your specimens for chromium 54 grains and see if you've hit the lottery for pre-pre-solar grains! They will be magnetic but at 100 nm not somehting you'll see with the eye alone. Elton Supernova Shrapnel Found in Meteorite ScienceDaily (Sep. 14, 2010) — Scientists have identified the microscopic shrapnel of a nearby star that exploded just before or during the birth of the solar system 4.5 billion years ago. Faint traces of the supernova, found in a meteorite, account for the mysterious variations in the chemical fingerprint of chromium found from one planet and meteorite to another. University of Chicago cosmochemist Nicolas Dauphas and eight co-authors report their finding in the late Sept. 10, 2010 issue of the Astrophysical Journal. Scientists formerly believed that chromium 54 and other elements and their isotopic variations became evenly spread throughout the cloud of gas and dust that collapsed to form the solar system. It was a very well-mixed soup, said Bradley Meyer, a professor of astronomy and astrophysics at Clemson University who was not a co-author of the study. But it looks like some of the ingredients got in there and didn't get completely homogenized, and that's a pretty interesting result. Scientists have known for four decades that a supernova probably occurred approximately 4.5 billion years ago, possibly triggering the birth of the sun. Their evidence: traces of aluminum 26 and iron 60, two short-lived isotopes found in meteorites but not on Earth. These isotopes could have come from a type II supernova, caused by the core-collapse of a massive star. It seems likely that at least one massive star contributed material to the solar system or what was going to become the solar system shortly before its birth, Meyer said. Researchers have already extracted many type II supernova grains from meteorites, but never from a type IA supernova. The latter type involves the explosion of a small but extremely dense white-dwarf star in a binary system, one in which two stars orbit each other. It should now be possible to determine which type of supernova contributed the chromium 54 to the Orgueil meteorite. The test will be to measure calcium 48, Dauphas said. You can make it in very large quantities in type Ia, but it's very difficult to produce in type II. So if the grains are highly enriched in calcium 48, they no doubt came from a type Ia supernova. Cosmochemists have sought the carrier of chromium 54 for the last 20 years but only recently have instrumentation advances made it possible to find it. Dauphas's own quest began in 2002, when he began the painstaking meteorite sample-preparation process for the analysis he was finally able to complete only last year. Dauphas and his associates spent three weeks searching for chromium 54-enriched nanoparticles with an ion probe at the California Institute of Technology. Time is very precious on those instruments and getting three weeks of instrument time is not that easy, he said. The researchers found a hint of an excess of the chromium-54 isotope in their first session, but as luck would have it, they had to search 1,500 microscopic grains of the Orgueil and Murchison meteorites before finding just one with definitely high levels. The grain measured less than 100 nanometers in diameter -- 1,000 times smaller than the diameter of a human hair. This is smaller than all the other kinds of presolar grains that have been documented before, except for nanodiamonds that have been found here at the University of Chicago, Dauphas said. The findings suggest that a supernova sprayed a mass of finely grained particles into the cloud of gas and dust that gave birth to the solar system 4.5 billion years ago. Dynamical processes in the early solar system then sorted these grains by size. These size-sorting processes led the grains to become disproportionally incorporated into the meteorites and planets newly forming around the sun. It's remarkable that you can look at an isotope like chromium 54 and potentially find out a whole lot about what happened in the very first period of the solar system's formation, Meyer said. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Other hobbies?
Wow, what a fascinating bunch of people we meteorite obsessives are! Graham, I had forgotten about your presentation to Stephen Hawking, cool looking print (and obviously using a superb slice of Seymchan!) Mike and Alex, I am with you on single malts! Although i cant indulge in that 'hobby' as much as i would like to ;-) Also I am a fan of real ales and being from Devon and also half French i have a passion for cider too! On that alcoholic note check out the following link to 'Falling Stone' beer (always nice if you can combine 2 passions ;-) ) (http://www.woldtopbrewery.co.uk/fallingstone.html) Nowhere as interesting as others but here is my list; Photography and fine art Fly fishing Good food (originally trained and worked as a chef) Keeping freshwater and marine aquaria Forensic science Tracking,i have been on a few courses run by the late Eddie McGee, an ex SAS instructor who was first used by UK police forces to track multiple murderer Barry Prudom and worked on lots of cases after too, see link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Prudom) Fascinated by sharks which led to an obsession with Megalodon and collecting its fossilised teeth which led to.. Collecting other fossils, which led to. * METEORITES * Cheers Martin From: e-mail ensoramanda ensorama...@ntlworld.com To: Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 01:43:08 +0100 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Other hobbies? Interesting to see what diverse things other meteorite enthusiasts are intomy list... Mycologyparticularly collecting and eating wild mushrooms. (positive ID crucial!) All forms of Contemporary Arts, Crafts and Sculpture. Printing and drawing meteorite forms (a long term ongoing project...see me presenting one of my prints to Stephen Hawking here... http://www.derbyastronomy.org/HawkingVisit280508.htm - Other art projects here - www.g8artists.co.uk) Collecting Raku ceramics. Wood turning. Astronomy. Photography. Ichnology. Gardening. Travel. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite may have landed in Clare
Hi Paul! I think you got the gold price a bit high... it is $1266 per troy ounce or $39 per gram. Then 50 times their weight in gold is $1970 per gram. I've seen higher prices for meteorites. Granted, not many meteorites would reach that price but a witnessed lunar fall might do it. :-) /Göran litig8nsh...@aol.com wrote: Good afternoon Folks, Imagine that 50 times their weight in gold. That would be what, $50,000 a gram? LOL Nice try...if they can sell it! Best regards, Paul Martyn Savannah, GA In a message dated 9/15/2010 4:12:30 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, stanleygr...@hotmail.com writes: List: WOW! - Thanks looks like a Martian Meteorite to me! Greg S. http://www.clarepeople.com/201009152342/Meteorite-may-have-landed-in-Clare.h tml Meteorite may have landed in Clare Wednesday, 15 September 2010 13:51 Scientists believe that a meteorite that landed in Ireland on September 1 may have touched down in north east Clare. According to Ireland’s foremost astronomer, David Moore, the September 1 meteorite is likely to have landed in land along the border between Clare, Galway and Tipperary. Moore, who is also the Chairman of Astronomy Ireland is appealing to people who witnessed the fireball to contact the association. The person who discovers the meteorite is also likely to receive a major cash boost as fragments of meteorites are regularly sold for 50 times their weight in gold. Andrew Hamilton __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Other hobbies?
My turn to name some of my hobbies: - Collector of Minerals: Systematic, pseudomorphs, fluorescents, micromounts, aesthetic MIN/SCAB sized specimens, localites from Argentina. - Collector of Fossils, especially cephalopods (amonites) and cretaceous and older gastropods - Collector of Meteorites, especially from Argentina and worldwide historical, although I have a systematic collection too. - Rollercoaster rider (118 different until now) - Travel, especially to nature landscapes, geology, archaeology and paleontology places - Reading, especially Science fiction, historical novels. - TV adict especially meteorite men ;-) and other series like The Big Bang Theory, House, Dexter, True Blood to name few) - Fan of Les Luthiers (group of musical humor from Argentina) - Exotic foods tester Former collector of: Archaeology, seashells, stamps (especially of geology, minerals, fossils and meteorites), coins. These mostly while kid but still love looking at them. Eduardo __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Nanodiamonds Discovered in Greenland Ice Sheet, Contribute to Evidence for Cosmic Impact
Ironic, Alfred Weegner died on Greenland in an effort to fortify his theory of The Origin Of the Continents. He too was ridiculed by the then established Scientific Community. Glad no one had to die this time. Jerry On Sep 16, 2010, at 3:46 AM, MEM wrote: I'm not sure if this made the list sorry if it is old news. Elton Nanodiamonds Discovered in Greenland Ice Sheet, Contribute to Evidence for Cosmic Impact ScienceDaily (Sep. 15, 2010) — Nanosize diamonds have been discovered in the Greenland ice sheet, according to a study reported by scientists in a recent online publication of the Journal of Glaciology. The finding adds credence to the controversial hypothesis that fragments of a comet struck across North America and Europe approximately 12,900 years ago. There is a layer in the ice with a great abundance of diamonds, said co-author James Kennett, professor emeritus in the Department of Earth Science at UC Santa Barbara. Most exciting to us is that this is the first such discrete layer of diamonds ever found in glacial ice anywhere on Earth, including the huge polar ice sheets and the alpine glaciers. The diamonds are so tiny that they can only be observed with special, highly magnifying microscopes. They number in the trillions. This discovery supports earlier published evidence for a cosmic impact event about 12,900 years ago, Kennett explained. He said that the available evidence in the Greenland ice is consistent with this layer being at or close to this age, although further study is needed. Researchers from the University of Maine led the expedition to Greenland in 2008. Co-authors on the study, besides Kennett and the team from Maine, include scientists from many universities and research entities. James Kennett's son, Douglas J. Kennett, of the University of Oregon, is one of the 21 scientists who contributed to the report. Last year, the Kennetts reported the discovery of nanosize diamonds in a layer of sediment exposed on Santa Rosa Island, off the coast of Santa Barbara, Calif. They published this information with numerous co-authors in two papers last year in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences and Science magazine. According to James Kennett, the Greenland results also contradict a recent study questioning the presence of nanodiamonds in a layer of this age. Kennett explained that the layer containing nanodiamonds on Santa Rosa Island, as well as those in the Greenland ice sheet -- both supporting a cosmic impact event -- appear to closely correspond to the time of the disappearance of the Clovis culture, the earliest well-established and well-accepted human culture living across North America. The event also corresponds with the time of extinction of many large animals across North America, including mammoths, camels, horses, and the saber tooth cat. There is also evidence of widespread wildfires at that time, said Kennett. An associated sharp climatic cooling called the Younger Dryas cooling is also recorded widely over the northern hemisphere. This includes evidence found in ocean-drilled sediments beneath the Santa Barbara Channel. The cause of this cooling has long been debated as well as the cause of the animal extinctions and human cultural shift. A high proportion of the nanosize diamonds in the Greenland ice sheet exhibit hexagonal mineral structure, and these are only known to occur on Earth in association with known cosmic impact events, said Kennett. This layer of diamonds corresponds with the sedimentary layer known as the Younger Dryas Boundary, dating to 12,900 years ago. James Kennett, former director of the Marine Science Institute at UCSB, is considered by many of his peers to be an early founder of marine geology and paleoceanography. He has specialized in analyzing sedimentary layers below the ocean floor. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] other hobbies
another disc golfing meteorite collector - nice! Here's to aces and witnessed falls for everyone on their next round. - Original Message From: MIke Antonelli mfranci...@verizon.net To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wed, September 15, 2010 5:53:33 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] other hobbies Nice hearing what some of the folks out there are doing other than huntin and collecting meteorites. Some of my hobbies include astronomy (member aaap, I really enjoy tracking near-earth objects) riding motorcycles (street AND trail), playing/teaching guitar, bass, mandolin, and vocals, camping, music festivals, I'm another NHL-er, but my team is the Pittsburgh Penguins, Jeepin, writing, disc golfin, freestyle friz, restoring motorcycles and old guitars, metal detecting,..etcNow if we could just get an earth day to last 30 hours instead of 24 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Supernova Shrapnel Found in Meteorite
Very cool info! Here is a pic of my Orgueil http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF5360.jpg Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Thu, 9/16/10, MEM mstrema...@yahoo.com wrote: From: MEM mstrema...@yahoo.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Supernova Shrapnel Found in Meteorite To: metlist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Thursday, September 16, 2010, 4:01 AM Yet another meteorite related news item. Check your specimens for chromium 54 grains and see if you've hit the lottery for pre-pre-solar grains! They will be magnetic but at 100 nm not somehting you'll see with the eye alone. Elton Supernova Shrapnel Found in Meteorite ScienceDaily (Sep. 14, 2010) — Scientists have identified the microscopic shrapnel of a nearby star that exploded just before or during the birth of the solar system 4.5 billion years ago. Faint traces of the supernova, found in a meteorite, account for the mysterious variations in the chemical fingerprint of chromium found from one planet and meteorite to another. University of Chicago cosmochemist Nicolas Dauphas and eight co-authors report their finding in the late Sept. 10, 2010 issue of the Astrophysical Journal. Scientists formerly believed that chromium 54 and other elements and their isotopic variations became evenly spread throughout the cloud of gas and dust that collapsed to form the solar system. It was a very well-mixed soup, said Bradley Meyer, a professor of astronomy and astrophysics at Clemson University who was not a co-author of the study. But it looks like some of the ingredients got in there and didn't get completely homogenized, and that's a pretty interesting result. Scientists have known for four decades that a supernova probably occurred approximately 4.5 billion years ago, possibly triggering the birth of the sun. Their evidence: traces of aluminum 26 and iron 60, two short-lived isotopes found in meteorites but not on Earth. These isotopes could have come from a type II supernova, caused by the core-collapse of a massive star. It seems likely that at least one massive star contributed material to the solar system or what was going to become the solar system shortly before its birth, Meyer said. Researchers have already extracted many type II supernova grains from meteorites, but never from a type IA supernova. The latter type involves the explosion of a small but extremely dense white-dwarf star in a binary system, one in which two stars orbit each other. It should now be possible to determine which type of supernova contributed the chromium 54 to the Orgueil meteorite. The test will be to measure calcium 48, Dauphas said. You can make it in very large quantities in type Ia, but it's very difficult to produce in type II. So if the grains are highly enriched in calcium 48, they no doubt came from a type Ia supernova. Cosmochemists have sought the carrier of chromium 54 for the last 20 years but only recently have instrumentation advances made it possible to find it. Dauphas's own quest began in 2002, when he began the painstaking meteorite sample-preparation process for the analysis he was finally able to complete only last year. Dauphas and his associates spent three weeks searching for chromium 54-enriched nanoparticles with an ion probe at the California Institute of Technology. Time is very precious on those instruments and getting three weeks of instrument time is not that easy, he said. The researchers found a hint of an excess of the chromium-54 isotope in their first session, but as luck would have it, they had to search 1,500 microscopic grains of the Orgueil and Murchison meteorites before finding just one with definitely high levels. The grain measured less than 100 nanometers in diameter -- 1,000 times smaller than the diameter of a human hair. This is smaller than all the other kinds of presolar grains that have been documented before, except for nanodiamonds that have been found here at the University of Chicago, Dauphas said. The findings suggest that a supernova sprayed a mass of finely grained particles into the cloud of gas and dust that gave birth to the solar system 4.5 billion years ago. Dynamical processes in the early solar system then sorted these grains by size. These size-sorting processes led the grains to become disproportionally incorporated into the meteorites and planets newly forming around the sun. It's remarkable that you can look at an isotope like chromium 54 and potentially find out a whole lot about what happened in the very first period of the solar system's formation, Meyer said. __
Re: [meteorite-list] Supernova Shrapnel (weird NWA 2086 inclusion)
Hi Greg and List, This is somewhat off-subject, but semi-related as well. If the list will recall, I recently posted about an NWA 2086 stone that I cut open, and it revealed a strange inclusion that is very atypical of NWA 2086. Some list members had initial doubts about whether the specimen was indeed 2086. Well, I have interesting news about this stone. I sent off a slice to a friend who is a qualified scientist at a major university. I won't mention his name because I don't want him to get inundated with submissions. Upon examining the stone in hand, he agreed that the strange inclusion within an inclusion did not appear to be weathering or terrestrialization. He hazarded a guess that the inclusion might be some form of star dust or foreign meteoritic material that accreted into the matrix during formation. Initially, he was going to make a couple of thin-sections from the material and make a visual analysis. But now he is very intrigued and is going to put the specimen through the microprobe to get an elemental composition. So, this is one of the mysteries that is going to be solved soon, and I will share the answer with the list when the results come in. I'd like to thank Blaine Reed and Gary Fujihara for providing this anomalous sample of NWA 2086 and my unnamed friend for kindly donating his expertise and microprobe time in solving this meteoritic mystery. And just for record, yes, this specimen is indeed NWA 2086. It's just a very anomalous example of this meteorite. And it's another example of something recently discussed on this list - collectors and dealers, please do NOT alter your specimens with foreign substances during processing. You never know when science may come knocking on your door and want a pristine specimen. Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 9/16/10, Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com wrote: Very cool info! Here is a pic of my Orgueil http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c165/jedisdiamond/DSCF5360.jpg Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Thu, 9/16/10, MEM mstrema...@yahoo.com wrote: From: MEM mstrema...@yahoo.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Supernova Shrapnel Found in Meteorite To: metlist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Thursday, September 16, 2010, 4:01 AM Yet another meteorite related news item. Check your specimens for chromium 54 grains and see if you've hit the lottery for pre-pre-solar grains! They will be magnetic but at 100 nm not somehting you'll see with the eye alone. Elton Supernova Shrapnel Found in Meteorite ScienceDaily (Sep. 14, 2010) — Scientists have identified the microscopic shrapnel of a nearby star that exploded just before or during the birth of the solar system 4.5 billion years ago. Faint traces of the supernova, found in a meteorite, account for the mysterious variations in the chemical fingerprint of chromium found from one planet and meteorite to another. University of Chicago cosmochemist Nicolas Dauphas and eight co-authors report their finding in the late Sept. 10, 2010 issue of the Astrophysical Journal. Scientists formerly believed that chromium 54 and other elements and their isotopic variations became evenly spread throughout the cloud of gas and dust that collapsed to form the solar system. It was a very well-mixed soup, said Bradley Meyer, a professor of astronomy and astrophysics at Clemson University who was not a co-author of the study. But it looks like some of the ingredients got in there and didn't get completely homogenized, and that's a pretty interesting result. Scientists have known for four decades that a supernova probably occurred approximately 4.5 billion years ago, possibly triggering the birth of the sun. Their evidence: traces of aluminum 26 and iron 60, two short-lived isotopes found in meteorites but not on Earth. These isotopes could have come from a type II supernova, caused by the core-collapse of a massive star. It seems likely that at least one massive star contributed material to the solar system or what was going to become the solar system shortly before its birth, Meyer said. Researchers have already extracted many type II supernova grains from meteorites, but never from a type IA supernova. The latter type involves the explosion of a small but extremely dense white-dwarf star in a binary system, one
Re: [meteorite-list] other hobbies
HI List Yes I have to say what a very interesting bunch of Meteorite folks you all are. Love to be part of it with all of you ,as its one of the more exciting things I have ever done in my life. Finding then touching them is truly ineffable. I gotta say a few of my hobbles or passions in life have morphed into full time work as a instructor mentor and now I make my living that way full time. Hang Gliding ,cross country world competitions, Paragliding ,FAI world Nat record hunter Paramotoring Microlight aircraft or now known as light sport aircraft pylon racing light sport aircraft White water kayaking White water rafting Scuba Diving rock collecting Arrow head hunter as a kid Aerial photography Aerial videographer Traveling the world Learning the universal law of attraction Meeting new folks from across the globe. home brew beer And now the one thing I think of hourly daily read books study photos of. And go out find touch them, And just cant get my mind off of ((METEORITE HUNTING)) is a huge passion at this time. I leave in a week on a new week long hunt in NV . Have a great day. Scott Johnson U.S. AirBorne Sport Aviation LLC Eagles Nest Airpark Sport Pilot C.F.I WSC-L WSC-S www.usairborne.com i...@usairborne.com Office 509-780-0554 Cell 509-780-8377 -_ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Other hobbies?
Besides meteorites I collect:: Dust Rocks Minerals Fossils Antiques Anything with eyeballs in it. I don't know why. Art Dogs (living) Information Barney Fife memorabilia Gone with the Wind memorabilia Furniture Signed folk pottery (Hi Thomas!) Halloween stuff And I make: Jewelry (see: http://www.earthly-things.com) Anita - Original Message From: Sean T. Murray s...@bellsouth.net To: Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, September 14, 2010 11:43:27 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Other hobbies? I am a collector at heart - I always have the urge to complete series or sets of items. I enjoy collecting fossils and some rocks, but not seriously. If you just want to count the detailed obsessive stuff, then... Tektites Meteorites Postage stamps (US mainly - pre self-adhesive) Movie memorabilia (Specifically, Indiana Jones - I have a 'few' items) Vintage computing (Apple II series) Hunting (deer, antelope) (not so much a collection activity as it is a hobby...) Sean. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Other hobbies?
Hello Daryl and Listees, I can't remember a time in my life that I wasn't involved in multiple avocations and hobbies. Some have had legs and are still vying for the time to enjoy them...dozens of others have dropped by the side of the road in my seven decades of travel. Flying ...I soloed 52 years ago and have ratings in single and multi-engine land and sea planes, helicopters and gliders. Fencing...A Prevot d'Armes in Foil, Epee' and Saber. USFA National Medalist. FAI Referee. Fencing Master at the Adelson Prep School. Auto Racing..SCCA Pro and IMCA Licenses. Competed in single seat sports racing and formula cars. Motorcycles..Sold my Hyabusa..I'm too old for it. I know ride a Honda 750 Shadow Aero cruiser tricked out to look like a copsicle. Hot Boats.. Just sold my last. A 21' Carrera jet with a Gale Banks built 454 cu.in. motor. Here's a link if you like fast boats. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eL5SMpgtdVA Firearms...NRA Certified Instructor. Collect WW2 military and enjoy long range target shooting with my M70 .308 sniper. WritingDocu-dramas, short stories, screen treatments. Published. Writer's Guild member. Art Photography...Published. Specialize in aerial documentation of contemporary earth sculptures..Smithson, Heizer, DeMaria, etal. Collect..Objects of Virtue, contemporary art, wines, classical music recordings and my family history. Here's a link if you'd like to know how one becomes a Count. http://www.guidodeiro.com/ And that's it...too many notes. Best regards to all having fun in life. You only go around once..so, make the best of it. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: i...@niger-meteorite-recon.de i...@niger-meteorite-recon.de Sent: Sep 16, 2010 12:58 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Other hobbies? I absolutely agree. What an interesting bunch of experts. We live in fascinating times ... - Geomorphology of deserts - photographing insects, focussing on Hymenoptera and Coleoptera - collecting propaganda leaflets dropped during armed conflicts, from World War I to present - (quit skydiving a couple of years ago) Cheers, Svend Darryl Pitt dar...@dof3.com hat am 15. September 2010 um 21:40 geschrieben: I just bundled together the hobby emails i missed Wow. what an interesting group and such fascinating interests. I love it. It's funny, among my friends my fascination with meteorites makes me seem rather exotic---but not in this crowd: --antiquarian maps --photographing flowers ;-) Wishing everyone all the best / Darryl On Sep 15, 2010, at 3:18 PM, Jan Bartels wrote: Collecting movie props. Especially from Close Encounters of the Third Kind. See all props here: www.yourprops/user/brubaned Keeping and breeding venamous snakes and scorpions.and stll alive after 30 years in this hobby!! Best, Jan. IMCA 9833 - Original Message - From: tracy latimer daist...@hotmail.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 8:45 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Other hobbies? Most of the things I do are too diffuse to count as hobbies: Home improvement (DH and I have an agreement: he keeps the computers happy, and I keep the house going.) Reading. I work in a library, and have first dibs on all new material. 'Nuff said! Paintball, although we haven't played for many years now. War-, computer, and role playing games. We have a weekly gaming session, plus online gaming. I collect semiprecious gems as well as meteorites, but not seriously. I also do various craft-type things, as diverse as quilting, wood carving, printmaking and jewelry making. Astronomy, especially promoting it to children. Next week, I've arranged for telescope time on one of the big Haleakala telescopes via the Maui branch of the Institute for Astronomy (UH), to be controlled through an Internet connection and viewed at our library. This will be the 4th time we've done this, and it's a real crowd pleaser. That's all I can think of for now. Best! Tracy Latimer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3134 - Release Date: 09/14/10 08:35:00 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Other hobbies?
Hi Count, Your resume is reminds of me of the Dos Equis most interesting man in the world. I think you have him beat across the board. I've never seen such an eclectic range of interests, all of which mastered to a great degree. And you can now add meteorite hunter of the record Nevada chondrite find to that impressive list. May your journeys last for decades more and involve many new diversions. :) Best regards, MikeG On 9/16/10, countde...@earthlink.net countde...@earthlink.net wrote: Hello Daryl and Listees, I can't remember a time in my life that I wasn't involved in multiple avocations and hobbies. Some have had legs and are still vying for the time to enjoy them...dozens of others have dropped by the side of the road in my seven decades of travel. Flying ...I soloed 52 years ago and have ratings in single and multi-engine land and sea planes, helicopters and gliders. Fencing...A Prevot d'Armes in Foil, Epee' and Saber. USFA National Medalist. FAI Referee. Fencing Master at the Adelson Prep School. Auto Racing..SCCA Pro and IMCA Licenses. Competed in single seat sports racing and formula cars. Motorcycles..Sold my Hyabusa..I'm too old for it. I know ride a Honda 750 Shadow Aero cruiser tricked out to look like a copsicle. Hot Boats.. Just sold my last. A 21' Carrera jet with a Gale Banks built 454 cu.in. motor. Here's a link if you like fast boats. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eL5SMpgtdVA Firearms...NRA Certified Instructor. Collect WW2 military and enjoy long range target shooting with my M70 .308 sniper. WritingDocu-dramas, short stories, screen treatments. Published. Writer's Guild member. Art Photography...Published. Specialize in aerial documentation of contemporary earth sculptures..Smithson, Heizer, DeMaria, etal. Collect..Objects of Virtue, contemporary art, wines, classical music recordings and my family history. Here's a link if you'd like to know how one becomes a Count. http://www.guidodeiro.com/ And that's it...too many notes. Best regards to all having fun in life. You only go around once..so, make the best of it. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: i...@niger-meteorite-recon.de i...@niger-meteorite-recon.de Sent: Sep 16, 2010 12:58 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Other hobbies? I absolutely agree. What an interesting bunch of experts. We live in fascinating times ... - Geomorphology of deserts - photographing insects, focussing on Hymenoptera and Coleoptera - collecting propaganda leaflets dropped during armed conflicts, from World War I to present - (quit skydiving a couple of years ago) Cheers, Svend Darryl Pitt dar...@dof3.com hat am 15. September 2010 um 21:40 geschrieben: I just bundled together the hobby emails i missed Wow. what an interesting group and such fascinating interests. I love it. It's funny, among my friends my fascination with meteorites makes me seem rather exotic---but not in this crowd: --antiquarian maps --photographing flowers ;-) Wishing everyone all the best / Darryl On Sep 15, 2010, at 3:18 PM, Jan Bartels wrote: Collecting movie props. Especially from Close Encounters of the Third Kind. See all props here: www.yourprops/user/brubaned Keeping and breeding venamous snakes and scorpions.and stll alive after 30 years in this hobby!! Best, Jan. IMCA 9833 - Original Message - From: tracy latimer daist...@hotmail.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2010 8:45 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Other hobbies? Most of the things I do are too diffuse to count as hobbies: Home improvement (DH and I have an agreement: he keeps the computers happy, and I keep the house going.) Reading. I work in a library, and have first dibs on all new material. 'Nuff said! Paintball, although we haven't played for many years now. War-, computer, and role playing games. We have a weekly gaming session, plus online gaming. I collect semiprecious gems as well as meteorites, but not seriously. I also do various craft-type things, as diverse as quilting, wood carving, printmaking and jewelry making. Astronomy, especially promoting it to children. Next week, I've arranged for telescope time on one of the big Haleakala telescopes via the Maui branch of the Institute for Astronomy (UH), to be controlled through an Internet connection and viewed at our library. This will be the 4th time we've done this, and it's a real crowd pleaser. That's all I can think of for now. Best! Tracy Latimer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] February 1998 - Meteorite Magazine - Wanted
List: Does anyone have an extra February 1998 Meteorite Magazine they would like to part with. I would be interested to buy it. If so, please contact me off-list. Much Thanks, Greg S. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Other hobbies?
Other than meteorites I collect (in no particular order) Dollars Greenbacks Benjamin's C-Notes Clams Cabbage Cash Dough Scratch Somalians Mula Dinero Fedia and of course Cash! Rock On! Ruben Garcia Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NEW contact info/phone
Hi to all. I had to get a new number for my phone when I switched back to verizon and am not sure if I will end up with my old (828)773 number as its not a local number anymore... so after 11 years of having that number I have the great headache of having to let everyone know I have a new number... I am trying to get it switched back, but dont know if I will be able to. If anyone wants the new number, reply to this email off list. Thanks and hope everyone is doing well, Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Other Hobbies
So many hobbies, so little time. Chris Spratt Victoria, BC (Via my iPhone) __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Other hobbies?
Hi Ruben, Here's some more for your collection that you missed... ;-) chips, bread, rolls, lettuce, kale, bacon, coconuts, beans, fish, potatoes, bananas, buckaroos, bucks, fins, sawbucks, hundies, Jacksons, grands, Gs, K, smack, smackers, wampum, bills, moolah, means, checks, drafts, shrapnel, wads, plaster, bankroll, capital, finances, currency, funds, gold, stash, bundle, fortune, lucre, chump change, pin money, shekels, resources, boffo, ponies, doubloons, wherewithal, treasure, dibs, bits, dosh, pesos, bullets, coin, monkeys, silver, pelf, tender, scrip, pittance, guineas, gelt, bones, stake, pap, spondulicks, quids, pocket money, specie, jack, change, mite, king’s ransom, mint, paper, loonies, mazuma, pieces of eight, frogskins, long green, folding green, green, riches, rivets, big ones, banknotes, dead presidents, chits, scrilla, loot. Hope ypo've got a very secure display cabinet! Happy hunting, Graham, UK On 16 September 2010 19:01, Ruben Garcia mrmeteor...@gmail.com wrote: Other than meteorites I collect (in no particular order) Dollars Greenbacks Benjamin's C-Notes Clams Cabbage Cash Dough Scratch Somalians Mula Dinero Fedia and of course Cash! Rock On! Ruben Garcia Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Other Hobbies
So many hobbies; so little money. Fred Bieler Astronomics/Christophers, Ltd./Cloudy Nights www.astronomics.com 800.422.7876 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Other hobbies
Other than meteorite hunting and collecting my interests are: Football (NFL and college) Go Bears!! Rocks and fossils Gardening Art (Paintings) Movies ( mostly Sci Fi and adventure) Geocaching Egyptology Treasure hunting in Fleamarkets Fishing Birds Sports cars ( use to restore, and race them but to old for that now.) Jim K __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Age of persuasion
List: For any gamers out there. Greg S. http://www.kelowna.com/2010/09/16/age-of-persuasion/ Age of persuasion Thursday, September 16th, 2010 | 6:46 am Rating: 4.5/5 (2 votes cast) NASA may have decided it's not returning to the moon anytime soon, but those of us on the Earth's surface can visit anytime we want, thanks to Moonbase Alpha, a new video game published in July by the U.S. space agency. In the game — free to download and play on a PC — a meteorite strikes a settlement on the Moon, and players have to repair and replace oxygen-producing equipment before time runs out. Up to six players can play at the same time, and success in the mission requires communication and co-operation with the other “astronauts” playing the game. Daniel Laughlin is with NASA's Learning Technologies division at the Goddard Flight Center in Maryland. In an interview, he said that the action game is a “proof of concept” to establish that a video game can be created using NASA data. “The lunar architecture, all the buildings and structures and equipment in the game is from NASA's Advanced Concepts models when they were talking about doing lunar missions,” Laughlin said. Still to come is a more ambitious video game project, called Astronaut: Moon, Mars and Beyond. It's a massively multiplayer online game (MMO) planned for release in 2011. Laughlin is the project manager for the two games and says he believes that the video-games medium is perfect for meeting the mandate of Learning Technologies, which, according to the division's website, was set up to produce “learning tools that engage and inspire today's tech-savvy students.” “The main goal,” said Laughlin of the two games, “is to get more kids to go into science, technology, engineering and mathematics [STEM] fields. “We're not getting enough students going into those technical fields, we're not graduating enough students from those technical fields, and we really need to beef up the numbers of graduates in technical fields to do the work that we need in those areas. That's especially true for NASA.” So NASA is using video games to recruit future astronauts. America's Army wants you This isn't the first time video games have been used to recruit. One high-profile — and some say resounding successful — example is America's Army, a free game first published by the U.S. Army in 2002. Frank Blackwell is the director of the Army Game Studio, which led the development of the first-person shooter. He calls America's Army an “outreach tool” and says it wasn't designed specifically for recruitment. On the phone from his office in Alabama, Blackwell explained that the intent was “to provide correct information about what it is to be a soldier, opportunities within the army and army values.” The idea, he said, is to communicate that information using media and technology that people are using regularly to gather information. Twenty years ago, it was television. Today, it is the internet and video games. While the army can't establish a direct correlation between registration and the game, Blackwell said they have determined that between 30 and 40 per cent of people who had played America's Army were “more likely to consider a career in the army,” and 30 per cent of West Point cadets had played the game. Army Game Studio develops other video games for the army, including applications to train soldiers how to operate weapon systems, and how to conduct chemical and biological reconnaissance to identify contaminants on the battlefield. They have even created game-based ethics training courses. Games, Blackwell explained, are an “active way of learning” that require participants to make decisions. “Based on the decisions I make, there are different consequences presented to me,” he said. “It's so much more engaging.” Realistic simulations Blackwell's studio is also involved in developing games for other branches of the U.S. government, including leading the effort on Moonbase Alpha. North Carolina's Virtual Heroes, which helped create America's Army, also assisted on Moonbase Alpha. Virtual Heroes and Indiana's Wisdom Tools are two-thirds of the development team working on Astronaut: Moon, Mars and Beyond. Winnipeg developer Project Whitecard is leading the effort. As with Moonbase Alpha, all the information being used to create Astronaut's environments and equipment, and to design the missions, is all real data straight from NASA. “We'll base the surface of Mars on the Mars Orbiter,” said Laughlin. Project Whitecard has experience creating games based on NASA data. Khal Shariff, chief executive, described a game the company developed for the Canadian Space Agency. In RoboMath, a game set in a 3D rendering of the International Space Station, players tackle problems specific to the tasks performed by Canadian astronaut Julie Payette during the STS-127 shuttle mission. Solving the problems requires Grade 5
[meteorite-list] MRO HIRISE Images - September 15, 2010
MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES September 15, 2010 o Small-Scale Volcanic Activity on Tharsis http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_018969_1950 o Craters on South Polar Layered Deposits http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_002882_0940 o Southern Spring (2007) http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_003193_0850 o Bright Gully Deposit in Terra Sirenum http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_003252_1425 o Dark-Toned Ridges in Meridiani http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_003379_1835 o Dark-Toned Unit Exposed atop Crater Ejecta in Meridiani Planum http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_003392_1825 All of the HiRISE images are archived here: http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Strong Robotic Arm Extends From Next Mars Rover (Curiosity)
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2010-301 Strong Robotic Arm Extends From Next Mars Rover Jet Propulsion Laboratory September 16, 2010 PASADENA, Calif. -- NASA's Mars rover Curiosity has been exercising its robotic arm since last month, when the arm was first fastened to the rover. In the long run, watch for this long and strong arm to become the signature apparatus of NASA's Mars Science Laboratory. After landing in August 2012, the mission will rely on it for repeated research activities. One set of moves crucial to the mission's success has never been tried before on Mars: pulling pulverized samples from the interior of Martian rocks and placing them into laboratory instruments inside the rover. Engineers and technicians are putting the arm through a range of motions this month in the clean room where Curiosity is being assembled and tested at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. We're fine-tuning the ability to make the arm go exactly where we want it to go, said JPL's Brett Kennedy, cognizant engineer for the robotic arm. Next, we'll start pushing on things with the arm. The arm can extend about 2.3 meters (7.5 feet) from the front of the rover body. Still to be added: the turret at the end that holds a percussive drill and other tools weighing a total of about 33 kilograms (73 pounds). This arm is strong, but still needs to move accurately enough to drop an aspirin tablet into a thimble, Kennedy said. The titanium arm has two joints at the shoulder, one at the elbow and two at the wrist. Each joint moves with a cold-tolerant actuator, custom-built for the mission. The tools to be wielded by the arm include a magnifying-lens camera; an element-identifying spectrometer; a rock brush; and mechanisms for scooping, sieving and portioning samples. The mission is designed to operate on Mars for a full Martian year, which equals about two Earth years. MDA Information Systems Inc.'s Space Division in Pasadena built and tested the arm, incorporating actuators from Aeroflex Corp., Plainview, N.Y. JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, manages the Mars Science Laboratory Project for the NASA Science Mission Directorate, Washington. For more information about the mission, visit http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/ . Guy Webster 818-354-6278 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. guy.webs...@jpl.nasa.gov 2010-301 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] bleeding in stoneys
Hi list.I got a unclassed 82 gram endcut that bleeds. I know we have gone down this road before,but what really causes this? Steve R.Arnold, Chicago! http://Chicagometeorites.com/ ebay:Illinoismeteorites __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Other Hobbies
Meteorite collection (694 pieces from micro fragments to 11.7 Lb Campo) Restoring 1946 Willys CJ 2A Jeep Restoring 1953 Seeburg Jukebox 5 year old Yellow Lab that adopted me and I love dearly. Mike __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] bleeding in stoneys
At least you do not see the face of The Virgin Mary... that really is unexplainable. Michael Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 16:05:52 -0700 From: stevenarnold60...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] bleeding in stoneys Hi list.I got a unclassed 82 gram endcut that bleeds. I know we have gone down this road before,but what really causes this? Steve R.Arnold, Chicago! http://Chicagometeorites.com/ ebay:Illinoismeteorites __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] bleeding in stoneys
Probably the cutter committed one or two cardinal sins : 1) used anything other than distilled water as a saw coolant 2) didn't bake the specimen immediately after cutting to purge remnant moisture. Now the specimen is probably suffering from the after-effects of chlorine contamination. That's my guess. On 9/16/10, michael cottingham voyagebotan...@hotmail.com wrote: At least you do not see the face of The Virgin Mary... that really is unexplainable. Michael Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 16:05:52 -0700 From: stevenarnold60...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] bleeding in stoneys Hi list.I got a unclassed 82 gram endcut that bleeds. I know we have gone down this road before,but what really causes this? Steve R.Arnold, Chicago! http://Chicagometeorites.com/ ebay:Illinoismeteorites __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] bleeding in stoneys
This a fairly common phenomenona seen in Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox stoneys, it's called stigmeteorata. - If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate. Phil Whitmer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Prof Davies, Aliens, Hillary Clinton and Laurence Rockefeller
Hi all, I just received my copy of “The Eerie Silence – Reviewing Our Search For Alien Intelligence” from my friend and world renown scientist Paul Davies. Paul is a very well respected authority on the subject and all round nice guy – whom I met last year when he joined us on a local meteorite hunt. Today while viewing Paul’s videos via YouTube I stumbled across this one that surprised me a little. It seems that even Hillary Clinton and Laurence Rockefeller are fans of Professor Davies work! I don’t know, I guess I never really thought that high ranking officials of our government might actually look up into the night sky and ponder the same things as us. see video herehttp://www.mr-meteorite.net/theeeriesilence.htm Plus if you were Paul would you find time to hunt meteorites with me and skip dinner with a Clinton or a Rockefeller? (not that the two events were scheduled at the same time – they weren’t) I guess I also can’t help but wonder what they know that we don’t…. -- Rock On! Ruben Garcia Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Prof Davies, Aliens, Hillary Clinton and Laurence Rockefeller
Maybe they know that 50 years of complete and total silence from the SETI search means there is no life in deep space.. -- Phil Whitmer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] OT: Listening To Fermi
I might agree with that sentiment if there were enough information to support it. However, I've got an interesting question about perspective and time. If a child looked out the window of a house for a mere 32/1000th of a second and formed a conclusion that horses do not exist, would you say he's correct? Eric On 9/16/2010 6:39 PM, JoshuaTreeMuseum wrote: Maybe they know that 50 years of complete and total silence from the SETI search means there is no life in deep space.. -- Phil Whitmer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] OT: Listening To Fermi
Interesting point Eric. My question is: how many years of complete and total silence would it take to reach the conclusion there's just nobody out there? 1,000? 10,000? a million years? a billion? a googlezillion? You could listen for eternity, hear nothing and say, well we just need a little more time. I don't buy the argument of time scale. If there are aliens out there transmitting at anywhere near the rate of Earth's output, surely in 50 years we would have heard one little bit of Morse Code by now. Phil Whitmer I might agree with that sentiment if there were enough information to support it. However, I've got an interesting question about perspective and time. If a child looked out the window of a house for a mere 32/1000th of a second and formed a conclusion that horses do not exist, would you say he's correct? Eric __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] bleeding in stoneys-- Lawrencite Disease
Sorry to hear you pet is ill, Steve. This sounds like Lawrencite Disease. It is contagious and your pet should be quarantined and handled only with latex or cotton gloves as it is a condition you can inadvertently transfer to healthly members in the cage. This comes from the mineral lawrencite: Iron Nickle Chloride. (Fe, Ni) Cl2 is a loosely bonded molecule that is in constant exchange: chlorine gives up its iron ion to the hydroxal ion then goes and gets another iron or nickle atom-- which it will also be lost to water from the air. The chlorine ions are hygroscopic: that is they pull water out of the atmosphere. The H2O binds with the iron to form iron oxide aka rust and the H2 is liberated as gas. The chlorine ions are a catalyst-- they are not consumed in the continuous reaction like other chemical reactions are. The also won't wash away easily. Therefore minor chlorine contamination can consume an entire meteorite over time. Interesting to note, the mineral lawrenceite, was originally identified in one of the iron meteorites from Alabama in the late 1877 http://webmineral.com/data/Lawrencite.shtml From the mineral data page on lawrencite: Comments: Capillary tube of lawrencite solution with opaque oxidized precipitates, derived from hydrosocpically absorbing water from the air by solid lawrencite, collected from an oozing meteorite. I think camel sweat is certainly a potential source of chlorine ions not to mention random handling with bare hands. This must be kept in mind when adopting NWAs. The lawrencite appears in solution as an ooze. It has high surface tension and the smaller blobs are typically a golden iridescent ovoid. When I first found them on my specimens I thought they were insect eggs. Yes, the treatment is to completely go through the cycle of washing, soaking in sodium hydroxide, washing again and drying, etc. Good Luck. Elton - Original Message From: steve arnold stevenarnold60...@yahoo.com Subject: [meteorite-list] bleeding in stoneys Hi list.I got a unclassed 82 gram endcut that bleeds. I know we have gone down this road before,but what really causes this? Steve R.Arnold, Chicago! http://Chicagometeorites.com/ ebay:Illinoismeteorites __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Prof Davies, Aliens, Hillary Clinton and Laurence Rockefeller
Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent perspiration. What if Edison would have been content with trying only a few hundred filaments (instead thousands) for the light bulb? We would be replacing lights every 40 hours or so... What if the Wright Brothers would have been happy peddling down the road? Only time and birds would fly.. What will we miss if we don't persist in seeking out new life? After all, we can't find what we don't look for. On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 6:39 PM, JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com wrote: Maybe they know that 50 years of complete and total silence from the SETI search means there is no life in deep space.. -- Phil Whitmer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Rock On! Ruben Garcia Website: http://www.mr-meteorite.net Articles: http://www.meteorite.com/blog/ Videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT: Listening To Fermi
I think there is life out there somewhere, but I doubt they are broadcasting their presence using primitive technologies like radio or anything else we would recognize. This is not unlike aliens trying to detect us by looking for our carrier pigeons. On 9/16/10, JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com wrote: Interesting point Eric. My question is: how many years of complete and total silence would it take to reach the conclusion there's just nobody out there? 1,000? 10,000? a million years? a billion? a googlezillion? You could listen for eternity, hear nothing and say, well we just need a little more time. I don't buy the argument of time scale. If there are aliens out there transmitting at anywhere near the rate of Earth's output, surely in 50 years we would have heard one little bit of Morse Code by now. Phil Whitmer I might agree with that sentiment if there were enough information to support it. However, I've got an interesting question about perspective and time. If a child looked out the window of a house for a mere 32/1000th of a second and formed a conclusion that horses do not exist, would you say he's correct? Eric __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT: Listening To Fermi
A very good point!! Kirk - Original Message - From: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com To: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 9:29 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT: Listening To Fermi I think there is life out there somewhere, but I doubt they are broadcasting their presence using primitive technologies like radio or anything else we would recognize. This is not unlike aliens trying to detect us by looking for our carrier pigeons. On 9/16/10, JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com wrote: Interesting point Eric. My question is: how many years of complete and total silence would it take to reach the conclusion there's just nobody out there? 1,000? 10,000? a million years? a billion? a googlezillion? You could listen for eternity, hear nothing and say, well we just need a little more time. I don't buy the argument of time scale. If there are aliens out there transmitting at anywhere near the rate of Earth's output, surely in 50 years we would have heard one little bit of Morse Code by now. Phil Whitmer I might agree with that sentiment if there were enough information to support it. However, I've got an interesting question about perspective and time. If a child looked out the window of a house for a mere 32/1000th of a second and formed a conclusion that horses do not exist, would you say he's correct? Eric __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT: Listening To Fermi
G'Day Mike, Phil and List We are not unique. The universe is unique. Listen, Observe, Learn Cheers John -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Galactic Stone Ironworks Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 7:29 PM To: JoshuaTreeMuseum Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT: Listening To Fermi I think there is life out there somewhere, but I doubt they are broadcasting their presence using primitive technologies like radio or anything else we would recognize. This is not unlike aliens trying to detect us by looking for our carrier pigeons. On 9/16/10, JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com wrote: Interesting point Eric. My question is: how many years of complete and total silence would it take to reach the conclusion there's just nobody out there? 1,000? 10,000? a million years? a billion? a googlezillion? You could listen for eternity, hear nothing and say, well we just need a little more time. I don't buy the argument of time scale. If there are aliens out there transmitting at anywhere near the rate of Earth's output, surely in 50 years we would have heard one little bit of Morse Code by now. Phil Whitmer I might agree with that sentiment if there were enough information to support it. However, I've got an interesting question about perspective and time. If a child looked out the window of a house for a mere 32/1000th of a second and formed a conclusion that horses do not exist, would you say he's correct? Eric __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT: Listening To Fermi
Valid points Phil... My answer to your question. As many years as it takes... Just like meteorite hunting, you have to look where they are, and even if you're looking in the right place, you still might not find them. ;) (interestingly enough, I think everyone here on-list can relate to that) Time scale though arguably the most important factor, is not the only factor. You must consider the technical limitations of Radio, and the distance such a transmission would be capable of traveling. It also depends on the direction in which you listen, as well as when you are listening. Putting things into a more simplistic perspective... The child could be looking out the window at the wrong time. The horse could have been there and gone. Or the child could be looking out the wrong window at the wrong time. Or the maybe there are no horses in the child's neighborhood. Or the child may see the horse, and not know it's a horse. Also to your point, (paraphrasing)'...if they're out there surely we would have heard them... Is simply a rewording of Fermi's question. Fermi's original question Where are they? is assumptive and based on incomplete data. The point being, there is no possible correct conclusion that can be formed either way at this time, because we didn't have and still haven't enough data to form the original question in the first place. However, that is not to say that we (humans) aren't trying. Regards, Eric On 9/16/2010 7:16 PM, JoshuaTreeMuseum wrote: Interesting point Eric. My question is: how many years of complete and total silence would it take to reach the conclusion there's just nobody out there? 1,000? 10,000? a million years? a billion? a googlezillion? You could listen for eternity, hear nothing and say, well we just need a little more time. I don't buy the argument of time scale. If there are aliens out there transmitting at anywhere near the rate of Earth's output, surely in 50 years we would have heard one little bit of Morse Code by now. Phil Whitmer I might agree with that sentiment if there were enough information to support it. However, I've got an interesting question about perspective and time. If a child looked out the window of a house for a mere 32/1000th of a second and formed a conclusion that horses do not exist, would you say he's correct? Eric __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT: Listening To Fermi
Sorry this sentence should read: The child could be looking out the [right] window at the wrong time. The horse could have been there and gone. Or the child could be looking out the wrong window at the wrong time. Big difference. On 9/16/2010 8:04 PM, Meteorites USA wrote: Valid points Phil... My answer to your question. As many years as it takes... Just like meteorite hunting, you have to look where they are, and even if you're looking in the right place, you still might not find them. ;) (interestingly enough, I think everyone here on-list can relate to that) Time scale though arguably the most important factor, is not the only factor. You must consider the technical limitations of Radio, and the distance such a transmission would be capable of traveling. It also depends on the direction in which you listen, as well as when you are listening. Putting things into a more simplistic perspective... The child could be looking out the window at the wrong time. The horse could have been there and gone. Or the child could be looking out the wrong window at the wrong time. Or the maybe there are no horses in the child's neighborhood. Or the child may see the horse, and not know it's a horse. Also to your point, (paraphrasing)'...if they're out there surely we would have heard them... Is simply a rewording of Fermi's question. Fermi's original question Where are they? is assumptive and based on incomplete data. The point being, there is no possible correct conclusion that can be formed either way at this time, because we didn't have and still haven't enough data to form the original question in the first place. However, that is not to say that we (humans) aren't trying. Regards, Eric On 9/16/2010 7:16 PM, JoshuaTreeMuseum wrote: Interesting point Eric. My question is: how many years of complete and total silence would it take to reach the conclusion there's just nobody out there? 1,000? 10,000? a million years? a billion? a googlezillion? You could listen for eternity, hear nothing and say, well we just need a little more time. I don't buy the argument of time scale. If there are aliens out there transmitting at anywhere near the rate of Earth's output, surely in 50 years we would have heard one little bit of Morse Code by now. Phil Whitmer I might agree with that sentiment if there were enough information to support it. However, I've got an interesting question about perspective and time. If a child looked out the window of a house for a mere 32/1000th of a second and formed a conclusion that horses do not exist, would you say he's correct? Eric __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT: Listening To Fermi
- Original Message - From: Meteorites USA e...@meteoritesusa.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 11:04 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT: Listening To Fermi Or the child may see the horse, and not know it's a horse. Which begs the question: When is a horse not a horse? V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V V Answer: When it turns into a barn... (Shields up, Mr Sulu! NOW!!) -Ed === Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. (Email Guard: 7.0.0.18, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.15890) http://www.pctools.com/ === __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Prof Davies, Aliens, Hillary Clinton and Laurence Rockefeller
Actually Phil, I'd disagree with that statement, even though I believe that the universe is filled to the brim with life, I think that intelligent life is exceedingly rare. Personally I think that SETI is never going to find a signal, not because there is no life out there, but that the circumstances required to find a signal is exceedingly small. The analogy put forth by others in this thread of a child looking out a window for 32/1000ths of a second is a good one. Use ourselves as an example. Radio technology on earth is barely a century old and we are already rapidly moving away from high powered transmitters to low powered devices for communications. Our most efficient long distance communications are already moving via fiber optics, so require no radio transmissions whatsoever. Ask yourself what are/or were the most powerful transmitters used? The answer is Early Warning defense radar systems. In fact at those frequencies Earth was brighter than the Sun. As the Cold War wound down, and the technology improved, lower power transmitters could do the same job. For about 40 years, Earth shined exceedingly brightly in microwaves, with a peak radiance about 1/3 through that period. So you can imagine a shell of microwaves 40 light years in thickness traveling out from our solar system, expanding at the speed of light. (I'm sure I'll be corrected here, but that's OK. I welcome it.) Say a intelligent civilization, only a century behind us in technology (Almost statistically impossible) 50 light years away from us will develop the technology to detect radio waves of that frequency. Our microwaves from the early warning systems have been reaching them for more than a decade already, but they won't develop the technology to detect this radiation for another 30 years or so. In other words, just as they gain the ability to detect our unintended signal to them just as it has completely passed them by. Even if they point their radio telescope directly at earth, they wouldn't hear us as our signal drops again below the background noise. And so it goes planet after planet as the signal extends out into space in an ever expanding shell, growing ever weaker. If we continue our trend to become more radio silent in other frequencies too, our civilization could become radio dark again as far as the universe is concerned in the next hundred years or so. Expand this problem by a more realistic estimate that civilizations become technologically capable thousands or millions of years apart, not mere decades apart... Now reverse the situation. For SETI to work you have to be listening at the precise moment the signals are passing our region of space. Miss it by a century, a decade, a year, a day, and its too late. The signal is no longer detectable. It may literally take many millenia before the right combination of circumstances allow us to detect another civilization through just their radio communications, intended or otherwise. Ironically, I think that SETI is an experiment that should not be abandoned, because you'll never know if there is a detectable signal if you don't look. I just think it will never yield a positive result. However, I do believe that the canceled Terrestrial Planet Finder mission had a much better chance to find habitable, and planets that have abundant life. -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 --- On Thu, 9/16/10, JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com wrote: Maybe they know that 50 years of complete and total silence from the SETI search means there is no life in deep space.. -- Phil Whitmer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] OT: Listening To Fermi
Where are they? For the sake of this argument let's say they're on one of the Alpha Centauri planets, a mere 4.3 light years away. Or, for that matter, they could be anywhere within 75 light years, the distance Earth's transmissions have reached. With their advanced planet detection methods and finely tuned dish signal reception set-ups, surely they would know about us. And they would also know how to send signals powerful enough to reach our planet through all the space dust and interferring cosmic rays. And yet nothing, nada, zilch, goose egg. The silence is deafening and speaks volumes. There's nobody there. Until ET phones home, I can't muster up the faith to believe in his existence. I need evidence, not wishful thinking or a yearning to not be alone. I'm not a yearner. Phil Whitmer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] OT: Listening To Fermi
Hi Richard; That's an excellent argument for cancelling the silly SETI project. The key word in your argument is believe. You believe in the existence of exo-life without any supporting evidence, I don't. So we can agree to disagree. If life never existed on Mars, I can't see it existing anywhere else. But, my beliefs are evidence based, I'll change them in a minute if someone will just show me the money. --- Phil Whitmer - Actually Phil, I'd disagree with that statement, even though I believe that the universe is filled to the brim with life, I think that intelligent life is exceedingly rare. Personally I think that SETI is never going to find a signal, not because there is no life out there, but that the circumstances required to find a signal is exceedingly small. The analogy put forth by others in this thread of a child looking out a window for 32/1000ths of a second is a good one. Use ourselves as an example. Radio technology on earth is barely a century old and we are already rapidly moving away from high powered transmitters to low powered devices for communications. Our most efficient long distance communications are already moving via fiber optics, so require no radio transmissions whatsoever. Ask yourself what are/or were the most powerful transmitters used? The answer is Early Warning defense radar systems. In fact at those frequencies Earth was brighter than the Sun. As the Cold War wound down, and the technology improved, lower power transmitters could do the same job. For about 40 years, Earth shined exceedingly brightly in microwaves, with a peak radiance about 1/3 through that period. So you can imagine a shell of microwaves 40 light years in thickness traveling out from our solar system, expanding at the speed of light. (I'm sure I'll be corrected here, but that's OK. I welcome it.) Say a intelligent civilization, only a century behind us in technology (Almost statistically impossible) 50 light years away from us will develop the technology to detect radio waves of that frequency. Our microwaves from the early warning systems have been reaching them for more than a decade already, but they won't develop the technology to detect this radiation for another 30 years or so. In other words, just as they gain the ability to detect our unintended signal to them just as it has completely passed them by. Even if they point their radio telescope directly at earth, they wouldn't hear us as our signal drops again below the background noise. And so it goes planet after planet as the signal extends out into space in an ever expanding shell, growing ever weaker. If we continue our trend to become more radio silent in other frequencies too, our civilization could become radio dark again as far as the universe is concerned in the next hundred years or so. Expand this problem by a more realistic estimate that civilizations become technologically capable thousands or millions of years apart, not mere decades apart... Now reverse the situation. For SETI to work you have to be listening at the precise moment the signals are passing our region of space. Miss it by a century, a decade, a year, a day, and its too late. The signal is no longer detectable. It may literally take many millenia before the right combination of circumstances allow us to detect another civilization through just their radio communications, intended or otherwise. Ironically, I think that SETI is an experiment that should not be abandoned, because you'll never know if there is a detectable signal if you don't look. I just think it will never yield a positive result. However, I do believe that the canceled Terrestrial Planet Finder mission had a much better chance to find habitable, and planets that have abundant life. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT: Listening To Fermi
Hi Phil, I agree completely with your sentiment, and respect your belief. However I sincerely disagree that your conclusion that intelligent extra terrestrial life does NOT exist is based on evidenced fact. There is only a lack of evidence, and the best argument to the contrary is us. Humans are the biggest single evidence in this universe that the development of intelligent life forms is possible. (though the intelligent part is arguable) I know you believe we're the only intelligent lifeform, and I know you think it's based on evidence, but it's actually lack of evidence to the contrary that you are basing your belief on. You're merely repeating Fermi's Where are they? question. Saying show me... I've already given an analogy that very simply shows Fermi's Paradox is not a paradox at all because we haven't the information to quantify the question to begin with. Lack of evidence is not evidence. You'll be surprised to know, I don't believe in extraterrestrials. However I can conclude they most probably exist because we are here, and the chances of them not being there (wherever there is) are so minute it's statistically impossible considering the vastness and the age of the universe. We could also phrase this as when they were. Or how we will be in 1000 years, or 10,000 years. At the rate of technological advancement (if we don't destroy ourselves first) where will we be in 1000 years? That is curiously and seriously what I would like to know! Even so, one can still safely use statistics and numbers to figure the probability. No, I'm not hanging my alien hat on the Drake equation. I wouldn't know how to read it any more than I could read War Peace in one sitting. I'm saying One must take into account ALL the variables possible to form a conclusion. Still, probability won't make it so. We may never know, or we might find ET tomorrow. I'll agree with Richard in that I believe that the universe is teaming with life. Intelligent life however is probably extremely rare. But even that, like time itself is probably relative. Regards, Eric On 9/16/2010 9:19 PM, JoshuaTreeMuseum wrote: Hi Richard; That's an excellent argument for cancelling the silly SETI project. The key word in your argument is believe. You believe in the existence of exo-life without any supporting evidence, I don't. So we can agree to disagree. If life never existed on Mars, I can't see it existing anywhere else. But, my beliefs are evidence based, I'll change them in a minute if someone will just show me the money. --- Phil Whitmer - Actually Phil, I'd disagree with that statement, even though I believe that the universe is filled to the brim with life, I think that intelligent life is exceedingly rare. Personally I think that SETI is never going to find a signal, not because there is no life out there, but that the circumstances required to find a signal is exceedingly small. The analogy put forth by others in this thread of a child looking out a window for 32/1000ths of a second is a good one. Use ourselves as an example. Radio technology on earth is barely a century old and we are already rapidly moving away from high powered transmitters to low powered devices for communications. Our most efficient long distance communications are already moving via fiber optics, so require no radio transmissions whatsoever. Ask yourself what are/or were the most powerful transmitters used? The answer is Early Warning defense radar systems. In fact at those frequencies Earth was brighter than the Sun. As the Cold War wound down, and the technology improved, lower power transmitters could do the same job. For about 40 years, Earth shined exceedingly brightly in microwaves, with a peak radiance about 1/3 through that period. So you can imagine a shell of microwaves 40 light years in thickness traveling out from our solar system, expanding at the speed of light. (I'm sure I'll be corrected here, but that's OK. I welcome it.) Say a intelligent civilization, only a century behind us in technology (Almost statistically impossible) 50 light years away from us will develop the technology to detect radio waves of that frequency. Our microwaves from the early warning systems have been reaching them for more than a decade already, but they won't develop the technology to detect this radiation for another 30 years or so. In other words, just as they gain the ability to detect our unintended signal to them just as it has completely passed them by. Even if they point their radio telescope directly at earth, they wouldn't hear us as our signal drops again below the background noise. And so it goes planet after planet as the signal extends out into space in an ever expanding shell, growing ever weaker. If we continue our trend to become more radio silent in other
Re: [meteorite-list] OT: Listening To Fermi
No problem Phil. Note I did not say there is life because I believe there is. My belief stems from the knowledge that the elements of life exist in abundance throughout the universe and an understanding that life burst onto the scene on earth as soon as it was possible. It seems that the physical processes required to form life is a natural consequence of our universe. Do I know life exists in the Universe? Of course it does, right here on Earth. Does it exist elsewhere? I don't know, but on the basis of our current knowledge is appears that it is highly likely that it must. My belief is based on this likelyhood, not on my desire. I too await proof. As for canceling SETI, it's privately funded. Who cares how other people spend their money? I said that my opinion is that I think there are better ways to search for life on distant planets than SETI, but I'd never say that just because an experiment that could prove the existence of that life is unlikely to succeed, that is a reason that the experiment should never be tried at all, or continued for a reasonable amount of time. Even if it never does turn up a signal, that does not eliminate the possibility of intelligent life elsewhere. It just means we need to try a different experiment to try to find it. This thread is very off topic, so I'll stop here. Cheers -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 --- On Thu, 9/16/10, JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com wrote: From: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com Subject: [meteorite-list] OT: Listening To Fermi To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Thursday, September 16, 2010, 9:19 PM Hi Richard; That's an excellent argument for cancelling the silly SETI project. The key word in your argument is believe. You believe in the existence of exo-life without any supporting evidence, I don't. So we can agree to disagree. If life never existed on Mars, I can't see it existing anywhere else. But, my beliefs are evidence based, I'll change them in a minute if someone will just show me the money. --- Phil Whitmer - Actually Phil, I'd disagree with that statement, even though I believe that the universe is filled to the brim with life, I think that intelligent life is exceedingly rare. Personally I think that SETI is never going to find a signal, not because there is no life out there, but that the circumstances required to find a signal is exceedingly small. The analogy put forth by others in this thread of a child looking out a window for 32/1000ths of a second is a good one. Use ourselves as an example. Radio technology on earth is barely a century old and we are already rapidly moving away from high powered transmitters to low powered devices for communications. Our most efficient long distance communications are already moving via fiber optics, so require no radio transmissions whatsoever. Ask yourself what are/or were the most powerful transmitters used? The answer is Early Warning defense radar systems. In fact at those frequencies Earth was brighter than the Sun. As the Cold War wound down, and the technology improved, lower power transmitters could do the same job. For about 40 years, Earth shined exceedingly brightly in microwaves, with a peak radiance about 1/3 through that period. So you can imagine a shell of microwaves 40 light years in thickness traveling out from our solar system, expanding at the speed of light. (I'm sure I'll be corrected here, but that's OK. I welcome it.) Say a intelligent civilization, only a century behind us in technology (Almost statistically impossible) 50 light years away from us will develop the technology to detect radio waves of that frequency. Our microwaves from the early warning systems have been reaching them for more than a decade already, but they won't develop the technology to detect this radiation for another 30 years or so. In other words, just as they gain the ability to detect our unintended signal to them just as it has completely passed them by. Even if they point their radio telescope directly at earth, they wouldn't hear us as our signal drops again below the background noise. And so it goes planet after planet as the signal extends out into space in an ever expanding shell, growing ever weaker. If we continue our trend to become more radio silent in other frequencies too, our civilization could become radio dark again as far as the universe is concerned in the next hundred years or so. Expand this problem by a more realistic estimate that civilizations become technologically capable thousands or millions of years apart, not mere decades apart... Now reverse the situation. For SETI to work you have to be listening at the precise moment the signals are passing our region of space. Miss it by a century, a
Re: [meteorite-list] bleeding in stoneys
Now that's droll. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com Sent: Sep 16, 2010 6:00 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] bleeding in stoneys This a fairly common phenomenona seen in Roman Catholic and Greek Orthodox stoneys, it's called stigmeteorata. - If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate. Phil Whitmer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] OT: Listening To Fermi
Richard, With all the news reports of organic compounds on Mars and fossils in Martian meteorites I think the possibility of extraterrestrial life is very on topic. Eric, Your point is well taken. According to the laws of probablity, anything that happened once could happen again, not matter how unlikely. However I could use your logic to argue for the existence of the Loch Ness Monster or Bigfoot, if I chose to believe in such things. This argument was also used by Dick Cheney to get us into the Iraq War. According to Tricky Dick lack of evidence did not mean that the weapons of mass destruction did not exist. Look where that got us. If life is so common, why is it so conspicuously lacking on the close-by formerly Earth-like planet Mars? Why was/is Mars not swarming with life? Wouldn't conditions there have been perfect for life to exist? Yet there's no evidence for it. No matter how many probes we send up, the results for the search for ET always come up negative. Eventually you have to conclude it just ain't there, no matter how much you want it to be. They keep saying, we aren't looking in the right places, we checked the equator, it wasn't there, lets check the polar region, nope not there, so now they're saying we have to dig deep, it must be way underground. It kind of reminds me of ghost hunting. You believe it's there, but you just can't find it. And you can always come up with an excuse why you can't find it. Ghost busting equipment just isn't advanced enough, we need more time to locate the ghosts, the ghosts have no interest in communicating with us, etc. etc. Phil Whitmer --- Hi Phil, I agree completely with your sentiment, and respect your belief. However I sincerely disagree that your conclusion that intelligent extra terrestrial life does NOT exist is based on evidenced fact. There is only a lack of evidence, and the best argument to the contrary is us. Humans are the biggest single evidence in this universe that the development of intelligent life forms is possible. (though the intelligent part is arguable) I know you believe we're the only intelligent lifeform, and I know you think it's based on evidence, but it's actually lack of evidence to the contrary that you are basing your belief on. You're merely repeating Fermi's Where are they? question. Saying show me... I've already given an analogy that very simply shows Fermi's Paradox is not a paradox at all because we haven't the information to quantify the question to begin with. Lack of evidence is not evidence. You'll be surprised to know, I don't believe in extraterrestrials. However I can conclude they most probably exist because we are here, and the chances of them not being there (wherever there is) are so minute it's statistically impossible considering the vastness and the age of the universe. We could also phrase this as when they were. Or how we will be in 1000 years, or 10,000 years. At the rate of technological advancement (if we don't destroy ourselves first) where will we be in 1000 years? That is curiously and seriously what I would like to know! Even so, one can still safely use statistics and numbers to figure the probability. No, I'm not hanging my alien hat on the Drake equation. I wouldn't know how to read it any more than I could read War Peace in one sitting. I'm saying One must take into account ALL the variables possible to form a conclusion. Still, probability won't make it so. We may never know, or we might find ET tomorrow. I'll agree with Richard in that I believe that the universe is teaming with life. Intelligent life however is probably extremely rare. But even that, like time itself is probably relative. Regards, Eric __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] OT: Listening To Fermi
Eric, Your point is well taken. According to the laws of probablity, anything that happened once could happen again, not matter how unlikely. However I could use your logic to argue for the existence of the Loch Ness Monster or Bigfoot, if I chose to believe in such things. This argument was also used by Dick Cheney to get us into the Iraq War. According to Tricky Dick lack of evidence did not mean that the weapons of mass destruction did not exist. Look where that got us. If life is so common, why is it so conspicuously lacking on the close-by formerly Earth-like planet Mars? Why was/is Mars not swarming with life? Wouldn't conditions there have been perfect for life to exist? Yet there's no evidence for it. No matter how many probes we send up, the results for the search for ET always come up negative. Eventually you have to conclude it just ain't there, no matter how much you want it to be. They keep saying, we aren't looking in the right places, we checked the equator, it wasn't there, lets check the polar region, nope not there, so now they're saying we have to dig deep, it must be way underground. It kind of reminds me of ghost hunting. You believe it's there, but you just can't find it. And you can always come up with an excuse why you can't find it. Ghost busting equipment just isn't advanced enough, we need more time to locate the ghosts, the ghosts have no interest in communicating with us, etc. etc. Phil Whitmer --- Hi Phil, I agree completely with your sentiment, and respect your belief. However I sincerely disagree that your conclusion that intelligent extra terrestrial life does NOT exist is based on evidenced fact. There is only a lack of evidence, and the best argument to the contrary is us. Humans are the biggest single evidence in this universe that the development of intelligent life forms is possible. (though the intelligent part is arguable) I know you believe we're the only intelligent lifeform, and I know you think it's based on evidence, but it's actually lack of evidence to the contrary that you are basing your belief on. You're merely repeating Fermi's Where are they? question. Saying show me... I've already given an analogy that very simply shows Fermi's Paradox is not a paradox at all because we haven't the information to quantify the question to begin with. Lack of evidence is not evidence. You'll be surprised to know, I don't believe in extraterrestrials. However I can conclude they most probably exist because we are here, and the chances of them not being there (wherever there is) are so minute it's statistically impossible considering the vastness and the age of the universe. We could also phrase this as when they were. Or how we will be in 1000 years, or 10,000 years. At the rate of technological advancement (if we don't destroy ourselves first) where will we be in 1000 years? That is curiously and seriously what I would like to know! Even so, one can still safely use statistics and numbers to figure the probability. No, I'm not hanging my alien hat on the Drake equation. I wouldn't know how to read it any more than I could read War Peace in one sitting. I'm saying One must take into account ALL the variables possible to form a conclusion. Still, probability won't make it so. We may never know, or we might find ET tomorrow. I'll agree with Richard in that I believe that the universe is teaming with life. Intelligent life however is probably extremely rare. But even that, like time itself is probably relative. Regards, Eric __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT: Listening To Fermi ELEs GRBs and lifetimes of civilizations
- Original Message From: Meteorites USA e...@meteoritesusa.com However, I've got an interesting question about perspective and time. If a child looked out the window of a house for a mere 32/1000th of a second and formed a conclusion that horses do not exist, would you say he's correct? Somewhere out in cyberspace is a well reasoned presentation that gamma ray burst (GRB) and super novae, in general, act as limiters to long-lived and highly-developed civilizations. Statistically, by the time a civilization matures in technology, it has also dodged the gamma ray bullet in the cosmic Russian Roulette handgun so many times, it gets moved to the top of the list as a target( i.e. The longer a star region goes without a GRB, owing to star lifetimes etc, the higher its statistical probability rises that it will be in the blast zone of a GRB: two random but codependent events). This results in a reset of complex life to lower life forms. The study argues, that given relatively short statistical life-spans, GRBs et.al. remove technologically-capable civilizations from the pool of listeners. The bottom line is that all intelligent/technological life will eventually bite the GRB bullet and SETI might be trying to sample an already depleted pool of participants. I don't have the numbers they used/correlated for the study or remember the theoretical life spans. However couple that with all other Extinction Level Events(ELEs) by asteroid impacts, runaway vulcanism, and etc., the probability of reaching technical sophistication is further diminished. We on earth, are likely under the GRB gun more than our Ordovician Fish ancestors were. We know that eventually the trigger will be pulled and we might be the shooting arcade ducky that gets reset-Pling!. The question remains regarding timelines: Which of the two events will be be more likely to encounter first? Experience first contact with another intelligent life form or GRB extinction ourselves. Mammal-like creatures were beginning to develop in the Permian (250mybp±) yet a massive ELE wiped out 95% of life and reptiles kept the advantage for the next 135± million years. Followed by another 65± million year reset /life form expansion. Only developments in the last 100 years brought mankind Homo Technicius into the technological level to even start looking for other brothers and sisters in the fraternity. Had the Permian extinction not happened, would intelligent life arose 85 my earlier only to be snuffed out 20 mil years later? Elton __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT: Listening To Fermi
Where are They? Well, going on the the evidence we have accumulated so far from exploring the planets and other cosmic bodies in our solar system..and I would include the findings of amino acids and fossilized nanonacteria in certain meteorites..it could very well be that They have already existed and been extincted on one or more of those bodies. They were There and didn't survive. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: JoshuaTreeMuseum joshuatreemus...@embarqmail.com Sent: Sep 16, 2010 9:09 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] OT: Listening To Fermi Where are they? For the sake of this argument let's say they're on one of the Alpha Centauri planets, a mere 4.3 light years away. Or, for that matter, they could be anywhere within 75 light years, the distance Earth's transmissions have reached. With their advanced planet detection methods and finely tuned dish signal reception set-ups, surely they would know about us. And they would also know how to send signals powerful enough to reach our planet through all the space dust and interferring cosmic rays. And yet nothing, nada, zilch, goose egg. The silence is deafening and speaks volumes. There's nobody there. Until ET phones home, I can't muster up the faith to believe in his existence. I need evidence, not wishful thinking or a yearning to not be alone. I'm not a yearner. Phil Whitmer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
