[meteorite-list] RFSPOD--Mikes 5 kilo Seymchan
Thanks for sharing Mike Farmer--and for hosting Michael Johnson awesome pallasite Jim Brady __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Big and fresh NWA with many Regmaglypts for sale
Hey List, I want to sell one of my NWA. Its a very nice fresh stone with many many Regmaglypts. The piece has about 4,5kg . The crust is fresh and there are also some fine flowlines in the crust. The shape is also very cool like you see it has a lot of Regmaglypts. Here a Link: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/May_26_2010.html Price and if you want also more pics via mail. So if you are interested please contact me via e-mail. Cheers David ___ GRATIS! Movie-FLAT mit über 300 Videos. Jetzt freischalten unter http://movieflat.web.de __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Big and fresh NWA with many Regmaglypts for sale
Hi David and List, That is a nice-looking specimen. Do you have any idea what type it might be? Does it have any areas with exposed matrix or chondrules showing through? (just curious) Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Meteorite Top List - http://meteorite.gotop100.com EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 12/18/10, David Goettlich david-goettl...@web.de wrote: Hey List, I want to sell one of my NWA. Its a very nice fresh stone with many many Regmaglypts. The piece has about 4,5kg . The crust is fresh and there are also some fine flowlines in the crust. The shape is also very cool like you see it has a lot of Regmaglypts. Here a Link: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/May_26_2010.html Price and if you want also more pics via mail. So if you are interested please contact me via e-mail. Cheers David ___ GRATIS! Movie-FLAT mit über 300 Videos. Jetzt freischalten unter http://movieflat.web.de __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD: One last set of auctions for the year
Dear List, One last set of auctions for the year: http://shop.ebay.com/historic-meteorites/m.html Many witnessed falls started at 99 cents. Also, we still have a few Whitecourt specimens available on our site: http://historicmeteorites.com/HistoricMeteorites/whitecourt-sale.html Thanks and have a great weekend! -- Mike Bandli Historic Meteorites www.HistoricMeteorites.com and join us on Facebook: www.facebook.com/Meteorites1 IMCA #5765 -- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Quick Question about Sahara xxxxx finds
Hi Listees, I have a quick question for the group and maybe someone here can shed some light on this subject Meteorites that do not have find coordinates or have falsified find coordinates are typically given the Nova designation by NonCom or if they are from Northwest Africa, they are given the NWA designation. In a handful of cases, a named meteorite was later changed to a Nova because it was discovered that the find coordinates were incorrect or dubious. So, why after all of these years does the Sahara x finds (mostly Labenne finds) are not referred to as NWA or Nova? It is well-known that the find coordinates on the many of these Labenne Sahara finds are falsified, which has hurt science and the provenance of the specimens. To this day, over a decade later, the true find coordinates of these specimens have not been revealed and probably will never be revealed. Can someone explain the double-standard at work here? Is it because of the pioneering work and otherwise-respectable work that the Labennes have done - despite the falsification of the find locations? Why do these Sahara finds get special treatment, while other finds with dubious locations are lumped under NWA or Nova ? I realize the NWA designation did not exist when the Sahara finds were accepted by NonCom, but shouldn't they now receive the Nova designation? In fact, the NWA designation was created, in part, due to the confusion created by the Sahara finds. So why do they still get a special place in nomenclature after all of this time? Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Meteorite Top List - http://meteorite.gotop100.com EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD - Thin section and rare/historic meteorite sale!
Hi to all, I have a few thin sections left for sale. All sections are uncovered to allow testing. A few highlights of whats available... Angrite - NWA 6291 Ungrouped Achondrite - NWA 6292 - PAIRED WITH NWA 5400 at half the cost! Diogenite - NWA 6293 CR2 - NWA 6389 There is also a few CV3 and mesosiderite sections available. Prices start at $60 and go up. If thin sections are not your thing, I have some hard to find and historic samples for sale also - Claxton, Orgueil, Tagish Lake, Karoonda, L'aigle, Murchison and ALH 76009 available. Check out my ebay listings and website for other great meteorites. Thanks for looking, hope everyone is doing good! Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Big and fresh NWA with many Regmaglypts for sale
David, Very nice specimen. I'd be interested to know the price and see more pictures. Thanks, Mike On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 11:02 AM, David Goettlich david-goettl...@web.de wrote: Hey List, I want to sell one of my NWA. Its a very nice fresh stone with many many Regmaglypts. The piece has about 4,5kg . The crust is fresh and there are also some fine flowlines in the crust. The shape is also very cool like you see it has a lot of Regmaglypts. Here a Link: http://www.rocksfromspace.org/May_26_2010.html Price and if you want also more pics via mail. So if you are interested please contact me via e-mail. Cheers David ___ GRATIS! Movie-FLAT mit über 300 Videos. Jetzt freischalten unter http://movieflat.web.de __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Merry Christmas Mahalo
Aloha nui, I want to extend my sincere appreciation for all the support for, and patronage of Big Kahuna Meteorites over the past year. Special kudos to Dr Tony Irving, Dr Gary Huss, Dr Jeffrey Taylor, Dr Albert Jambon, Ray Pickard, Matt Morgan, Josh Eisler, Ryan Dillon, Mike Gilmer, Mike Bandli, Rob Wesel, Marlin Cilz, Doug Dawn, Serge Dima, Mike Farmer, Jim Strope, Ruben Garcia, Greg Hupe, Jason Utas, John Humphries, Matthew Martin, Mike Miller, Al Mitterling, Tom Phillips, Blaine Reed, Steve Schoner, Patrick and ET Thompson, McCartney Taylor, Keith Dana Jenkerson, Michael Johnson, Maria Haas, Thomas and Mica Davidsson, Dieter Heinlein, Matteo Chinellato, Eduardo Jawerbaum, Svend Buhl, Moritz Karl, Mirko Graul, Martin Altman Stefan Ralew, Tomek Jakubowski, Rob Lenssen, Andreas Grunemeyer, Ali Oulmaleh, Aid Mohamed, Abdellah Afinnis, Ahmad Bouragaa, Aziz Alhyane, Aziz Habibi, Rachid Chaoui, Said Haddany, Andre Moutinho, Don Emanuel-Smith and Norbert Kammel. Please patronize their businesses and use their services! In the spirit of the season, I am offering my entire lineup of ebay auctions at $1 Starting Bid with No Reserve and Free Shipping. So if Santa doesn't bring what you'd hoped for, come visit my ebay auctions that will end Christmas Day, beginning at 8:00am Pacific / 11:00am Eastern / 4:00pm London / 6:00pm Helsinki / 11pm Singapore. You may be able to walk away with a killer piece for a buck or at least a price well below market value. http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html Gary Fujihara Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693) 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720 http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/ http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html (808) 640-9161 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Quick Question about Sahara xxxxx finds
Many will provide false information or not any at all to keep the location secret. There is a discussion elsewhere currently about a finder lying about the location to secure the material available. Algeria has laws preventing the export of meteorites, yet there are new ones coming out everyday. Even recent Lunars from there are accepted and sold. All one has to do is simply say NWA. Berduc was the same way, many were transported outside the country and claimed to have been found elsewhere. I have seen many others questioned about locations and even know of one person who has outright lied about where a stone was recovered to keep from paying the land owner the share agreed on and created a laughable story of the find that has been published with so many flaws, it looks like a scam ad on ebay. I bet some of you have a piece of it in your collection and dont even know the whole story behind it! I think it happens more then we would really want to know. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Sat, 12/18/10, Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com wrote: From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Quick Question about Sahara x finds To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Saturday, December 18, 2010, 1:51 PM Hi Listees, I have a quick question for the group and maybe someone here can shed some light on this subject Meteorites that do not have find coordinates or have falsified find coordinates are typically given the Nova designation by NonCom or if they are from Northwest Africa, they are given the NWA designation. In a handful of cases, a named meteorite was later changed to a Nova because it was discovered that the find coordinates were incorrect or dubious. So, why after all of these years does the Sahara x finds (mostly Labenne finds) are not referred to as NWA or Nova? It is well-known that the find coordinates on the many of these Labenne Sahara finds are falsified, which has hurt science and the provenance of the specimens. To this day, over a decade later, the true find coordinates of these specimens have not been revealed and probably will never be revealed. Can someone explain the double-standard at work here? Is it because of the pioneering work and otherwise-respectable work that the Labennes have done - despite the falsification of the find locations? Why do these Sahara finds get special treatment, while other finds with dubious locations are lumped under NWA or Nova ? I realize the NWA designation did not exist when the Sahara finds were accepted by NonCom, but shouldn't they now receive the Nova designation? In fact, the NWA designation was created, in part, due to the confusion created by the Sahara finds. So why do they still get a special place in nomenclature after all of this time? Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Meteorite Top List - http://meteorite.gotop100.com EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD: MIGHEI, NINGQIANG and NWA 6155 - very rare small fragments for sale
Hello all I have some auctions ending on EBAY in 24 hours. For sale are some affordable small fragments of some very rare meteorites. A good occasion to acquire material of some rare meteorites without paying much. Have a look if you like. [http://shop.ebay.com/karmaka/m.html] MIGHEI (CM2) - VERY RARE Historic Fall 1889 - Meteorite TYPE SPECIMEN of the CM Carbonaceous chondrites !!! http://cgi.ebay.com/MIGHEI-CM2-VERY-RARE-Historic-Fall-1889-Meteorite-/320631177300?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item4aa71b8054 NINGQIANG - C3.3 ungrouped - VERY RARE FALL - Meteorite UNIQUE scientifically important carbonaceous chondrite http://cgi.ebay.com/NINGQIANG-C3-3-ungrouped-VERY-RARE-FALL-Meteorite-/320631178944?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item4aa71b86c0 NWA 6155 - VERY RARE CK4 - TKW only 53 g !! Meteorite VERY FRESH - weathering degree W 0 ! ONLY ONE AVAILABLE http://cgi.ebay.com/NWA-6155-VERY-RARE-CK4-TKW-only-53-g-Meteorite-/320631180483?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item4aa71b8cc3 Thank you Have a nice weekend! __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ad-30.00 lunar and others
I hope everyone has a nice and safe holiday. I do have some auctions ending in a few hours, including a lunar for 30.00. In addition there is a very large and beautiful Fukang slice. Please view my store at http://stores.ebay.com/Mile-High-Meteorites. All offers will be considered. Merry Christmas, Matt Morgan Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD: ENSISHEIM, Tabor, L'Aigle, Barbotan, Abee, Siena, SYLACAUGA, Orgueil, St. Louis, Fisher, Tagish Lake, New Concord, Lost City much more ending on eBay!
Hello Listers, I have some great historic meteorites ending soon on eBay. If you have been looking for those high end meteorites, look no further. I have meteorites from the 1400's all the way up to 2008, all with great historic pasts and scientific importance. If your looking for the first dated fall from 1492, or the greatest Hoax meteorite, which is also one of the rarest meteorites. But that's not all, I have many world class meteorites to offer with world class stories, from Mrs Hodges Sylacauga, L' Aigle, St. Louis, to Almahat Sitta aka 2008 TC3. A meteorite is a meteorite, but a meteorite with a history and legacy, will always add aura to your meteorite collection and value. Please take a look and if you have any questions please contact me and ill get back to you. Best of the Best http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html eBay Acutions: Ensisheim, Sylacauga, Claxton meteorite KIT, rare items *MUST SEE* http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=250743448896ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT SYLACAUGA meteorite, Mrs. Hodges Meteorite Strike! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=260707431225ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT ST. LOUIS meteorite *vary rare* hit a moving car-1950 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=260709114299ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT TAGISH LAKE meteorite 21mg-most amount of nanodiamonds http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=250743793380ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT ABEE 208mg meteorite-ONLY know EH4 impact-melt breccia. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=250744174976ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT ORGUEIL meteorite 30mg, very rare historic fall-1864! *Bigg Fragment* http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=250743421221ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT WESTON - 1st USA meteorite, fell in 1807- RARE http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=250743795249ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT TAGISH LAKE meteorite 200mg LOT with nanodiamomds,rare! *Holiday Deal* http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=260708683896ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT FISHER 1894 historic meteorite 1st fall from Minnesota. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=260707754322ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT NEW CONCORD meteorite 1860-Horse killer-ASU collection! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=250742376071ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT ALMAHATA SITTA meteorite 2008TC3 seen from space rare! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=260707747878ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT MELROSE(a) meteorite- owned and examined by Nininger. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=260707749881ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT LOST CITY meteorite 1st fireball photo path in USA RARE http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=260708678218ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT TAGISH LAKE meteorite 11mg with FUSION CRUST rare! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=260709107570ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT TAGISH LAKE meteorite 110mg LOT ALL with fusion crust! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=260708687518ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT Thank you Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Good read about the moon being captured by Earth
http://news.discovery.com/space/moon-earth-formation.html about a year old but a good read and something to consider. I think this theory is more plausible also. Maybe the moon was hit and knocked towards Earth and was captured. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD: ebay auctions ending
Dear List, I have 18 great auctions ending on Sunday December 19th starting at 12:02 pm PST. A few examples are: - Bells (C2 Ungrouped) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=110624836607 - Daule (L5) - rare fall from Ecuador http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=110624839130 - Dar al Gani 670 - Shergottite from Lybia http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=110624839578 - Norton County (AUB) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=110624841455 - NWA 791 Chondrite Meteorite Sphere http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=110624842628 - NWA 5957 - a nice Howardite partslice http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=110624844111 - Sikhote - Alin - a beautiful oriented specimen http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=110624845742 any many more See all auctions here: http://stores.ebay.com/mos-meteorites Please contact me if you have any questions. Thank you everyone for looking and good luck to anyone bidding. I would also like to take this opportunity and wish everyone on this list a Merry Christmas. All the best for the holidays. I hope you get to spend them with your families, friends and loved ones. Kind Regards, Moritz Karl __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Sydney Mining Museum - Part II - Fossils
Hi, If you would like to see the second post on the Sydney Mining Museum correspondence, which addressed fossils, minerals and meteorites, check the latest posting on my blog at: http://meteoritemanuscripts.blogspot.com You can also follow me on twitter as well at: http://twitter.com/MetManuscripts Thanks! Mark __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Good read about the moon being captured by Earth
- Original Message From: Greg Catterton Subject: [meteorite-list] Good read about the moon being captured by Earth about a year old but a good read and something to consider. I think this theory is more plausible also. Maybe the moon was hit and knocked towards Earth and was captured. Yeah...BUT.Capture theory doesn't address the identical oxygen isotope ratios shared by Terra and Luna. Nor our 23° axis tilt. Nor the migration dynamics to move .88 AU in 100 million years to be in place for the capture. According to the article, Malcuit has been working on this for several decades. While Malcuit wasn't looking up from his desk, he may have missed the little isotope-ratio thingy. While some rocks in Australia were dated to 4.0±.03 billion, the claim for the oldest earth rocks dated were in the range of 3.8-4.3 billion( a one half billion error margin) leaving 400-500million years for the surface to re-congeal--which the author doesn't think is adequate. The wack obviously would have excavated some of the mantle but not necessarily the core. I haven't seen the math, so I don't know if the envelope of possibilities allow for some deep-crust plutons to have avoided being disrupted. Maybe we need to be looking for plutons with giant shattercones rather than micrometer-sized zircon crystals. Another caveat in this dating is it isn't the rocks themselves which are that old-- its the un-remelted zircons within them and a giant wack would not necessarily have melted every last reservoir of zircon. The zircons in Australia were in much younger sandstone. I'd like to know more about the mechanism of capture to convert a highly elliptical orbit (which would be likely be passing inside the Roche radius of the earth 16 times per year) into an almost circular one. ( I'd like to hear more about the wack from the orbit from inside Mercury and how the Moon would have retained so much silicate content which should have been boiled away). While we know there is a small, permanent, tidal bulge, on the backside of the moon, the moon is far far less ellipsoid then predicted given the perturbations of the Roche limit would have exerted over part of the 3 billion years of stabilizing--AND the moon would have to have been largely plastic-- if not molten , for the ellipsoid to become spherical. BUT the moon is missing compression ridges that would have been left by the tectonics a solid crust floating on a plastic lunar mantel. I do agree that the churning would have heated both earth and the moon if the moon had survived the capture for any length of time--according to this theory. And we have calculated the rate the moon is moving away from us such that 400mybp we had 20 hour days. So where is the orbital mechanics that got the moon so close and only to let it assume a different orbital radius? The mechanism should have been a single vector not first one than another. I would also like to know what these geologically impossibilities are the author did not elaborate on other than his argument on cooling rates and the inferred earliest age the zircons could have formed that we use to date the oldest rocks. This is the first I've heard that the Big Wack was estimated to have occurred after the earth had formed oceans. Finally, some do believe there were a dozen or more bodies in the very early solar system that were ejected out of the solar system else were absorbed into a body that yet remains. Calculations show that there are resonances and that bodies have moved into orbits other than the ones they were formed in but IIRC these were largely inward migrations(?). What wacker knocked the moon into a radical orbit and where is the wacker today? Seems someone has too much of their life invested in a theory overcome by events to accept that it is only a matter of time before the memorial service. Thanks, however, was a good read and I think we are open minded enough to weigh the facts. Now if I can just get someone to agree with me about cold vs hot meteorites... Elton __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Good read about the moon being captured by Earth
I sit partially corrected: apparently the latest oldest is 4.404±.8 and it wasn't sandstone proper but metamorphosed sandstone which usually equates to quartzite. The info did express there was some debate about a possible hydrothermal alteration of the zircons This tightens the time lines substantially but the other comments remain valid until I find Where I am wrong again...lol Elton http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldest_dated_rocks Recent research The zircons from the Western Australian Jack Hills returned an age of 4.404 billion years, interpreted to be the age of crystallization. These zircons also show another interesting feature; their oxygen isotopic composition has been interpreted to indicate that more than 4.4 billion years ago there was already water on the surface of the Earth. The importance and accuracy of these interpretations is currently the subject of scientific debate. It may be that the oxygen isotopes, and other compositional features (the rare earth elements), record more recent hydrothermal alteration of the zircons rather than the composition of the magma at the time of their original crystallization. In a paper published in the journal Earth and Planetary Science Letters, a team of scientists suggest that rocky continents and liquid water existed at least 4.3 billion years ago and were subjected to heavy weathering by an acrid climate. Using an ion microprobe to analyze isotope ratios of the element lithium in zircons from the Jack Hills in Western Australia, and comparing these chemical fingerprints to lithium compositions in zircons from continental crust and primitive rocks similar to the Earth's mantle, they found evidence that the young planet already had the beginnings of continents, relatively cool temperatures and liquid water by the time the Australian zircons formed. - Original Message From: MEM mstrema...@yahoo.com To: Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sat, December 18, 2010 10:10:39 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Good read about the moon being captured by Earth - Original Message From: Greg Catterton Subject: [meteorite-list] Good read about the moon being captured by Earth about a year old but a good read and something to consider. I think this theory is more plausible also. Maybe the moon was hit and knocked towards Earth and was captured. Yeah...BUT.Capture theory doesn't address the identical oxygen isotope ratios shared by Terra and Luna. Nor our 23° axis tilt. Nor the migration dynamics to move .88 AU in 100 million years to be in place for the capture. According to the article, Malcuit has been working on this for several decades. While Malcuit wasn't looking up from his desk, he may have missed the little isotope-ratio thingy. While some rocks in Australia were dated to 4.0±.03 billion, the claim for the oldest earth rocks dated were in the range of 3.8-4.3 billion( a one half billion error margin) leaving 400-500million years for the surface to re-congeal--which the author doesn't think is adequate. The wack obviously would have excavated some of the mantle but not necessarily the core. I haven't seen the math, so I don't know if the envelope of possibilities allow for some deep-crust plutons to have avoided being disrupted. Maybe we need to be looking for plutons with giant shattercones rather than micrometer-sized zircon crystals. Another caveat in this dating is it isn't the rocks themselves which are that old-- its the un-remelted zircons within them and a giant wack would not necessarily have melted every last reservoir of zircon. The zircons in Australia were in much younger sandstone. I'd like to know more about the mechanism of capture to convert a highly elliptical orbit (which would be likely be passing inside the Roche radius of the earth 16 times per year) into an almost circular one. ( I'd like to hear more about the wack from the orbit from inside Mercury and how the Moon would have retained so much silicate content which should have been boiled away). While we know there is a small, permanent, tidal bulge, on the backside of the moon, the moon is far far less ellipsoid then predicted given the perturbations of the Roche limit would have exerted over part of the 3 billion years of stabilizing--AND the moon would have to have been largely plastic-- if not molten , for the ellipsoid to become spherical. BUT the moon is missing compression ridges that would have been left by the tectonics a solid crust floating on a plastic lunar mantel. I do agree that the churning would have heated both earth and the moon if the moon had survived the capture for any length of time--according to this theory. And we have calculated the rate the moon is moving away from us such that
Re: [meteorite-list] Good read about the moon being captured by Earth
Greetings, The Earth capture theory creates a lot of problems due to the size of the Earth/Moon system. I believe it is physically impossible. It has long been discarded as a viable theory. More likely an impact occured with the Earth during formation. At least that is the most logical idea put forth so far. I guess that bad ideas are defended until the death of the person that generated the idea. Tektites also come to mind. --AL Mitterling Quoting MEM mstrema...@yahoo.com: - Original Message From: Greg Catterton Subject: [meteorite-list] Good read about the moon being captured by Earth about a year old but a good read and something to consider. I think this theory is more plausible also. Maybe the moon was hit and knocked towards Earth and was captured. Yeah...BUT.Capture theory doesn't address the identical oxygen isotope ratios shared by Terra and Luna. Nor our 23° axis tilt. Nor the migration dynamics to move .88 AU in 100 million years to be in place for the capture. According to the article, Malcuit has been working on this for several decades. While Malcuit wasn't looking up from his desk, he may have missed the little isotope-ratio thingy. While some rocks in Australia were dated to 4.0±.03 billion, the claim for the oldest earth rocks dated were in the range of 3.8-4.3 billion( a one half billion error margin) leaving 400-500million years for the surface to re-congeal--which the author doesn't think is adequate. The wack obviously would have excavated some of the mantle but not necessarily the core. I haven't seen the math, so I don't know if the envelope of possibilities allow for some deep-crust plutons to have avoided being disrupted. Maybe we need to be looking for plutons with giant shattercones rather than micrometer-sized zircon crystals. Another caveat in this dating is it isn't the rocks themselves which are that old-- its the un-remelted zircons within them and a giant wack would not necessarily have melted every last reservoir of zircon. The zircons in Australia were in much younger sandstone. I'd like to know more about the mechanism of capture to convert a highly elliptical orbit (which would be likely be passing inside the Roche radius of the earth 16 times per year) into an almost circular one. ( I'd like to hear more about the wack from the orbit from inside Mercury and how the Moon would have retained so much silicate content which should have been boiled away). While we know there is a small, permanent, tidal bulge, on the backside of the moon, the moon is far far less ellipsoid then predicted given the perturbations of the Roche limit would have exerted over part of the 3 billion years of stabilizing--AND the moon would have to have been largely plastic-- if not molten , for the ellipsoid to become spherical. BUT the moon is missing compression ridges that would have been left by the tectonics a solid crust floating on a plastic lunar mantel. I do agree that the churning would have heated both earth and the moon if the moon had survived the capture for any length of time--according to this theory. And we have calculated the rate the moon is moving away from us such that 400mybp we had 20 hour days. So where is the orbital mechanics that got the moon so close and only to let it assume a different orbital radius? The mechanism should have been a single vector not first one than another. I would also like to know what these geologically impossibilities are the author did not elaborate on other than his argument on cooling rates and the inferred earliest age the zircons could have formed that we use to date the oldest rocks. This is the first I've heard that the Big Wack was estimated to have occurred after the earth had formed oceans. Finally, some do believe there were a dozen or more bodies in the very early solar system that were ejected out of the solar system else were absorbed into a body that yet remains. Calculations show that there are resonances and that bodies have moved into orbits other than the ones they were formed in but IIRC these were largely inward migrations(?). What wacker knocked the moon into a radical orbit and where is the wacker today? Seems someone has too much of their life invested in a theory overcome by events to accept that it is only a matter of time before the memorial service. Thanks, however, was a good read and I think we are open minded enough to weigh the facts. Now if I can just get someone to agree with me about cold vs hot meteorites... Elton __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list
Re: [meteorite-list] Good read about the moon being captured byEarth
Hi, First of all, I think that Capture Phobia (fear that a planet might capture a satellite) is essentially irrational. It is clear that such a thing can (and HAS) happened: No one thinks that Deimos and Phobos were formed along with Mars (in place). They're Captures. There is little doubt or discussion that RETROGRADE satellites are Captures. These include Triton, the 15th largest body in the solar system, 20% bigger than Pluto. Capture. When it comes to the large planets and their satellites, the convention is to blithely assert they were formed in place. Miniature solar systems with their own miniature solar system formation? Show me the model for that process. Well, the truth is that no one has been able to successfully model that assumption. It is a dead fish of an idea that nobody sniffs. So, we really don't know how the MAJORITY of solar system satellites got where they're at. We DO assume they've been there, with their planets, for a very long time, since the early system. So, how DO you get small rocky satellites to form around a Gas Giant AFTER every- thing, including gasses, has already been swept up? I have cited Malcuit in various List posts over the decade. I dug them out but most of the old links are Kaput. I suggest you look at his home page at Denison University: http://www.denison.edu/academics/departments/geosciences/malcuit_r.html He discusses his work and lists publications... but link-free. There's a section on the Cool Early Earth and whether it's a problem for his simulations. Malcuit has spent most of his calculation on the heat generated and how it's dispersed and by which body, and whether a cool capture is easier than a hot one, the role of a planet's viscosity in dissipating the energy of capture... Why don't you read the page? Capture theory doesn't address the identical oxygen isotope ratios shared by Terra and Luna. Nor our 23° axis tilt. Again, all oxygen isotope ratios tell you is that Earth and Moon formed in a similar accretion zone, but we know that. It has no effect on whether it's a Crash or a Catch. I don't get the link between tilt and capture. True, a satellite restrains axial tilt from wider swings, but what has that got to do with how you got the satellite? And, quite a part from Malcuit's studies of Capture, there are other ways a planet can grab itself a moon. The hardest thing to believe about the Luna bangs into the Earth and gets Caught theory, is that it HAS to be a gentle smack, hardly more than a graze. Impacts in general are NOT gentle. There is one way to get a graze, though. If two bodies accrete in a very similar orbit, the larger will usually eject the smaller, UNLESS the smaller can slip into a Trojan position in the orbit. However, if it keeps accreting (or is big enough at the beginning), it will be perturbed into oscillating back and forth, approaching the larger body and finally sliding up the orbit to a gentle collision with it. That's kind of a Crash and kind of a Capture, with relative velocities of only 100's of m/s. Of course, even the slowest touch of planetary bodies will disrupt them. But it might explain the Earth-Moon Double Planet. See, a whole NEW Crazy Theory! Sterling K. Webb - Original Message - From: MEM mstrema...@yahoo.com To: Greg Catterton star_wars_collec...@yahoo.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2010 9:10 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Good read about the moon being captured byEarth - Original Message From: Greg Catterton Subject: [meteorite-list] Good read about the moon being captured by Earth about a year old but a good read and something to consider. I think this theory is more plausible also. Maybe the moon was hit and knocked towards Earth and was captured. Yeah...BUT.Capture theory doesn't address the identical oxygen isotope ratios shared by Terra and Luna. Nor our 23° axis tilt. Nor the migration dynamics to move .88 AU in 100 million years to be in place for the capture. According to the article, Malcuit has been working on this for several decades. While Malcuit wasn't looking up from his desk, he may have missed the little isotope-ratio thingy. While some rocks in Australia were dated to 4.0±.03 billion, the claim for the oldest earth rocks dated were in the range of 3.8-4.3 billion( a one half billion error margin) leaving 400-500million years for the surface to re-congeal--which the author doesn't think is adequate. The wack obviously would have excavated some of the mantle but not necessarily the core. I haven't seen the math, so I don't know if the envelope of possibilities allow for some deep-crust plutons to have avoided being disrupted. Maybe we need to be looking for plutons with giant shattercones rather than micrometer-sized zircon crystals. Another caveat in this dating is it isn't the rocks themselves which
