Re: [meteorite-list] Help with Ebay bidding
Hello Listers, I have been reading this Post and another Post about about weight and attractiveness and I can say there is a lot of pros and cons that have been listed. But I think the bottom line is the way you collect meteorites is in your own right and no one else. This is what I like about meteorite collecting, is that your collection can be unique from someone else, even if you both have the same meteorites. Can you do that with collecting coins or baseball cards? I see that any way from collecting meteorites is your right way. If you collect meteorites on the micro scale, or whole specimen scale, or thin sections, or gram size, or historic falls to beauty, its all in the eyes of the behold, YOU. I can say that collecting a whole meteorite is the best way because its in its true natural state and looks like how it fell the day it landed on Earth. But on the flip side, I can say well whats the fun in collecting whole meteorites, you dont get to see whats in side and the outside looks the same. Thats the beauty with collecting meteorites, everyone of use LISTERS will have a meteorite collection that is unique from anyone else and that just the collecting side. What about presentation and how you show off your meteorites. Good example is a pallisite suspended in oil and put in a frame. To beat that, one could put an LED light panel behind the pallisite and back light it. The list goes on. But I do feel that there are some factors to think about when collecting and thats weight, which has been in question with an ebayer, the cost, where did it come from, is it a historic meteorite, does it have paper work, and is it beautiful in no particular order. But again, you might buy only historic falls with the actual museum labels, or meteorites that are whole specimens, or you might only collect slices to micros. Now I do have to say, factoring these elements in, that money has a big deal on how I collect and I bet on how others collect. If I had a lot of money to spend on meteorites, I might buy bigger or more, or might buy as much as I can and try to get every single meteorite out there. Or if I had a big budget and only wanted to get micros because I have this million dollar display case house out of crystals to show case my micros off, so be it. The bottom line is no way is the right way to collect only your way is the right way and dont let anyone else say other wise. But keep in mind, the weight, cost, where it comes from, and if you really want to add that meteorite to your collection. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html [meteorite-list] Help with Ebay biddingJason Utas meteoritekid at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 00:24:05 EST 2011 Previous message: [meteorite-list] Help with Ebay bidding Next message: [meteorite-list] Help with Ebay bidding Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Hello All, I'd like to point out a few things. First and foremost is that we are meteorite collectors. Collectors. What does that mean? It means that for some irrational reason, we have all decided that it is a worthwhile endeavor to spend our hard-earned money on chunks of rock that happen to be a little different than the more easily available ones that have originated on earth. We buy them because we consider them to be 'interesting' or 'pretty,' and that's about it. So when I hear collectors saying that they want to buy the thinnest slice possible of a given meteorite, it makes me want to stand back and ask...why? Such a comment does make a lot of sense. Since rarer types of meteorites are often very expensive (and are priced per gram), a thinner piece would logically be more easy to see -- if seeing the specimen were an issue. But, personally, from a collector's (my) point of view, I'd have to disagree. If I wanted a piece of a given meteorite, I'd gladly pay twice as much for the thick slab or endcut that weighed twice as much as a mm-thick slice of greater surface area. Why is that? It's because if I want a given meteorite, I don't just want a piece that feels like a cross between a baseball card and a credit card. I'd prefer a piece that has some heft to it. Perhaps that's not such a reasonable demand when one is talking about a lunar or a martian meteorite -- but there's a reason why Peter and I personally haven't bought very many of those. The few that we have purchased have been smaller complete individuals, and we prefer them to slices of equivalent weights. And since I'm a collector, and I prefer such pieces, those are the better ones. In my opinion. You guys should stop trying to push your wants on other people as common sense, because, if you prefer thin slices, that's your preference -- not mine. And neither one is better. Your desire is rational in one sense - if you're willing to spend only enough to buy a gram or so of the moon, then yes, I can see
Re: [meteorite-list] Point of Diminishing returns (Slice thickness)?
The answer is simple: if weight is important to you don't bid. Michael On 3/7/11 6:19 PM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: Michael made the Comment: *** If you can buy high fat ground beef for $2/lb or excellent Ribeye stakes for $4/lb, which are YOU going to buy? I'll take The Ribeye every stinking time. But if you are starving and have to feed multiple people in this poor economy, most would opt for the ground beef. That is the problem, most are not willing or cannot afford to pay twice as much for a 1mm slice for example. This leaves the preparer with a tough decision. They have to balance the needs of the collector with the issue of cutting/polishing loss when a buyer is not willing or able to pay twice as much. In this poor economy, most are looking at the price per gram. Michael, you illustrated this perfectly by comparing a commodity like beef with meteorites. Same for the guy running the auction, if you want cheese he states go to a deli. I do not agree at all with the guy running the auctions without weights listed. This is pertinent information as with diamonds where the weight is very important. And... Diamonds are a commodity Best Regards, Adam - Original Message From: John L j...@hc.fdn.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Mon, March 7, 2011 5:33:14 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Point of Diminishing returns (Slice thickness)? Michael and All, A 2mm Ribeye, draped over a 100 watt light bulb for 43 seconds turns out perfect. Micheal's words habitual ways of thinking may just boil down to (in my opinion only) a natural transition from a new collector to a more seasoned collector. When someone decides to begin collecting meteorites, for whatever reason, and is trying to explain to family and friends about his/her new venture--it just wouldn't work to show them your newest .006gm micro (this is an extreme example) and expect them to look at it for more than 20 seconds but when you hand them any iron and EVERY single time they exclaim wow that's heavy for it's size--now you have their interest and they want to see more and most important they're more prone to listening to you about your new hobby. In my circles, i'm trying to get everyone i know to buy the biggest Campo they can afford and learn educate yourself. Hopefuly, one of them will, one day, have the knowledge that you guys/gals have. Everyone starts somewhere. Personally, i'm on the side of as aesthetics and given the choice of a 4mm vs a 2mm, i would probably take the 2mm-if it was a more revealing piece. My true love is TS's and i have about another 40+ to post to the Eom. To me it's like looking into the sole of the universe. And that's my 3 oz's of Ribeye fat - Original Message - From: Michael Blood mlbl...@cox.net To: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com; Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, March 07, 2011 6:58 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Point of Diminishing returns (Slice thickness)? Good points, Adam, However, the collectors who are blind to any pricing Elements but weight are NOT getting the best deals at all. I sell the same way I collect Good is good and to me How a specimen looks if far more important than mass. Do I prefer a bigger specimen over a smaller specimen? Of course, but I do not prefer a thicker slice over a thinner Slice at all. If one is 4g and the other is 1.2g and the surface Area is larger on the 1.2g and the price is the same, I will take The 1.2 thinner slice with more surface area every stinking time. If you can buy high fat ground beef for $2/lb or excellent Ribeye stakes for $4/lb, which are YOU going to buy? I'll take The Ribeye every stinking time. I believe collectors are STARTING to get the point that It is NOT the weight that is most important, but the visual Quality that matters. Every Tucson Show for the last several Years I have seen some screaming specimens sold for 4, 10 or 100 times the normal price per gram. I have bought some of Them, myself. I am always amazed that though I am certain the average Meteorite collector has a substantially higher IQ than the Public norm, so many of them are attached to narrow ways of Thinking. However, any smart individual will eventually overcome Habitual ways of thinking when repeatedly exposed to the logical advantages of other ways of looking at things. Michael On 3/7/11 3:38 PM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: Most collectors go by the price per gram first so dealers who cut ultra-thin will take a loss when weight is the main consideration. I know that the weight-to-surface area ratio is a secondary consideration for most collectors
Re: [meteorite-list] Help with Ebay bidding
Jason, Of course you are right - it is a matter of taste. As for a dealer withholding weight, that is not Reasonable - unless he doesn't want to open the Membrane box, or risk breakage or whatever. People Should just buy what they want and some want Weight and some want surface area. No question, given say a 30mm X 30mm all else Being equal (price and appearance) I would take the Thicker one - but if the thicker one is 3 times the $, Then I would always take the thinner one - but that Is just me. Michael On 3/7/11 9:24 PM, Jason Utas meteorite...@gmail.com wrote: Hello All, I'd like to point out a few things. First and foremost is that we are meteorite collectors. Collectors. What does that mean? It means that for some irrational reason, we have all decided that it is a worthwhile endeavor to spend our hard-earned money on chunks of rock that happen to be a little different than the more easily available ones that have originated on earth. We buy them because we consider them to be 'interesting' or 'pretty,' and that's about it. So when I hear collectors saying that they want to buy the thinnest slice possible of a given meteorite, it makes me want to stand back and ask...why? Such a comment does make a lot of sense. Since rarer types of meteorites are often very expensive (and are priced per gram), a thinner piece would logically be more easy to see -- if seeing the specimen were an issue. But, personally, from a collector's (my) point of view, I'd have to disagree. If I wanted a piece of a given meteorite, I'd gladly pay twice as much for the thick slab or endcut that weighed twice as much as a mm-thick slice of greater surface area. Why is that? It's because if I want a given meteorite, I don't just want a piece that feels like a cross between a baseball card and a credit card. I'd prefer a piece that has some heft to it. Perhaps that's not such a reasonable demand when one is talking about a lunar or a martian meteorite -- but there's a reason why Peter and I personally haven't bought very many of those. The few that we have purchased have been smaller complete individuals, and we prefer them to slices of equivalent weights. And since I'm a collector, and I prefer such pieces, those are the better ones. In my opinion. You guys should stop trying to push your wants on other people as common sense, because, if you prefer thin slices, that's your preference -- not mine. And neither one is better. Your desire is rational in one sense - if you're willing to spend only enough to buy a gram or so of the moon, then yes, I can see why you would prefer a wafer with a larger surface area. And I prefer specimens that have some weight and heft -- meteorites that I can see *and* feel. And there's much more to my rationale than just that. Stability, difficulty of preservation, and the fact that the prices for such specimens *are* significantly inflated in general all make these less desirable to me. That and the fact that I wouldn't feel comfortable with ever taking them out of a membrane box because I'd fear for the samples' safety. But, yes. I see where you're coming from. If visibility is your only criteria, then a thinner slice would logically appeal more to you. I personally don't find that attractive. So, when I emailed the ebay seller that led to this thread and asked for specimen weights several months ago -- and they crassly declined -- I opted not to purchase any of their specimens. Can I understand their supposed rationale for preferring thin slices with large surface areas? Sure. But they, as the seller, are obliged to give potential buyers the information they want about the material they're selling. Let's compare it to buying a house. You are looking at properties and are told by a seller that you can see some photos of their building, but they won't let you actually go inside it or know how many bedrooms or bathrooms it has before you buy it. The price seems fair based on what you know of the market, and can see from the photos. The seller assures you that nothing is wrong with the house. Wouldn't you think it strange? The details they are withholding are a good guideline for how houses are generally priced. Wouldn't you think that the house *might* be flawed in some way that the seller didn't want you to know? Furthermore, would you be willing to risk spending your money on such a deal? Meteorites are currently (generally) sold by the gram. That system makes sense because weight is an easily quantifiable unit. If people start selling slices by the square centimeter, unless they have some nifty computer programs and a scanner handy, they're not going to be able to judge area as accurately -- and furthermore, people wouldn't know how 'big' the pieces they were buying actually were. Weight tells you how much you're getting, regardless of shape. Area
Re: [meteorite-list] Help with Ebay bidding
Right on. Michael On 3/8/11 12:42 AM, Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com wrote: Hello Listers, I have been reading this Post and another Post about about weight and attractiveness and I can say there is a lot of pros and cons that have been listed. But I think the bottom line is the way you collect meteorites is in your own right and no one else. This is what I like about meteorite collecting, is that your collection can be unique from someone else, even if you both have the same meteorites. Can you do that with collecting coins or baseball cards? I see that any way from collecting meteorites is your right way. If you collect meteorites on the micro scale, or whole specimen scale, or thin sections, or gram size, or historic falls to beauty, its all in the eyes of the behold, YOU. I can say that collecting a whole meteorite is the best way because its in its true natural state and looks like how it fell the day it landed on Earth. But on the flip side, I can say well whats the fun in collecting whole meteorites, you dont get to see whats in side and the outside looks the same. Thats the beauty with collecting meteorites, everyone of use LISTERS will have a meteorite collection that is unique from anyone else and that just the collecting side. What about presentation and how you show off your meteorites. Good example is a pallisite suspended in oil and put in a frame. To beat that, one could put an LED light panel behind the pallisite and back light it. The list goes on. But I do feel that there are some factors to think about when collecting and thats weight, which has been in question with an ebayer, the cost, where did it come from, is it a historic meteorite, does it have paper work, and is it beautiful in no particular order. But again, you might buy only historic falls with the actual museum labels, or meteorites that are whole specimens, or you might only collect slices to micros. Now I do have to say, factoring these elements in, that money has a big deal on how I collect and I bet on how others collect. If I had a lot of money to spend on meteorites, I might buy bigger or more, or might buy as much as I can and try to get every single meteorite out there. Or if I had a big budget and only wanted to get micros because I have this million dollar display case house out of crystals to show case my micros off, so be it. The bottom line is no way is the right way to collect only your way is the right way and dont let anyone else say other wise. But keep in mind, the weight, cost, where it comes from, and if you really want to add that meteorite to your collection. Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html [meteorite-list] Help with Ebay biddingJason Utas meteoritekid at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 00:24:05 EST 2011 Previous message: [meteorite-list] Help with Ebay bidding Next message: [meteorite-list] Help with Ebay bidding Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Hello All, I'd like to point out a few things. First and foremost is that we are meteorite collectors. Collectors. What does that mean? It means that for some irrational reason, we have all decided that it is a worthwhile endeavor to spend our hard-earned money on chunks of rock that happen to be a little different than the more easily available ones that have originated on earth. We buy them because we consider them to be 'interesting' or 'pretty,' and that's about it. So when I hear collectors saying that they want to buy the thinnest slice possible of a given meteorite, it makes me want to stand back and ask...why? Such a comment does make a lot of sense. Since rarer types of meteorites are often very expensive (and are priced per gram), a thinner piece would logically be more easy to see -- if seeing the specimen were an issue. But, personally, from a collector's (my) point of view, I'd have to disagree. If I wanted a piece of a given meteorite, I'd gladly pay twice as much for the thick slab or endcut that weighed twice as much as a mm-thick slice of greater surface area. Why is that? It's because if I want a given meteorite, I don't just want a piece that feels like a cross between a baseball card and a credit card. I'd prefer a piece that has some heft to it. Perhaps that's not such a reasonable demand when one is talking about a lunar or a martian meteorite -- but there's a reason why Peter and I personally haven't bought very many of those. The few that we have purchased have been smaller complete individuals, and we prefer them to slices of equivalent weights. And since I'm a collector, and I prefer such pieces, those are the better ones. In my opinion. You guys should stop trying to push your wants on other people as common sense, because, if you prefer thin slices, that's your preference -- not mine. And neither one is better. Your desire is rational
Re: [meteorite-list] Earth Rocks! (Was: Help with Ebay bidding)
Hey Jason, you're forgetting something... ;) Time.4.56 billion years worth of it. The easily available rocks we don't collect didn't really originate here... All rocks on Earth, or more correctly, that *formed* Earth, were once meteoroids/asteroids at some point in the last 4.56+ billion years. The rocks from space we do collect are only interesting only because they've not yet been terrestrialized. Technically, there isn't a single grain of dust or sand on this planet that didn't originate in space if you go far enough back in time. Hell... Earth itself is one big rock in space. ;) Regards, Eric On 3/7/2011 9:24 PM, Jason Utas wrote: It means that for some irrational reason, we have all decided that it is a worthwhile endeavor to spend our hard-earned money on chunks of rock that happen to be a little different than the more easily available ones that have originated on earth. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Earth Rocks! (Was: Help with Ebay bidding)
Hello Eric, All, I didn't forget it; I cut it out of my first paragraph. Whether or not the matter itself is the same age, if one is paying $850/g for a thick slice of a lunar meteorite or $1000/g for a thinner one, the prices are still relative to each other, and the fact that the atoms themselves were created in the supernova that created our solar system is..a moot point. This was about the thickness of meteorite slices and desirability/pricing, no? I get what you're saying, and I agree with it, but I don't really get how it pertains to this discussion. That point would be relevant to a conversation about the irrationality of high monetary values assigned to anything without real practical/utilitarian value, but...that applies to all meteorites, thick or thin. [Perhaps modern art, most of all...something I'll never waste money on ; ] Regards, Jason On Tue, Mar 8, 2011 at 1:29 AM, Meteorites USA e...@meteoritesusa.com wrote: Hey Jason, you're forgetting something... ;) Time.4.56 billion years worth of it. The easily available rocks we don't collect didn't really originate here... All rocks on Earth, or more correctly, that *formed* Earth, were once meteoroids/asteroids at some point in the last 4.56+ billion years. The rocks from space we do collect are only interesting only because they've not yet been terrestrialized. Technically, there isn't a single grain of dust or sand on this planet that didn't originate in space if you go far enough back in time. Hell... Earth itself is one big rock in space. ;) Regards, Eric On 3/7/2011 9:24 PM, Jason Utas wrote: It means that for some irrational reason, we have all decided that it is a worthwhile endeavor to spend our hard-earned money on chunks of rock that happen to be a little different than the more easily available ones that have originated on earth. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of Day - March 8, 2011
http://www.rocksfromspace.org/March_8_2011.html --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Point of Diminishing returns (Slice thickness)?
Greetings, Interesting discussion on meteorite thickness, weight, value and slices etc. and so on. My problem with cutting slices too thin are many. While you get a great looking slice with good surface area there are trade offs. Number one is there is more breakage when trying to cut ultra thin slices. Breakage should cause the price of the material to rise, if you have a truly limited amount of that material in the first place. Two. Thin slices that are made without breakage are also prone to breaking later on. It could break during shipping to the buyer. Breaking a full slice can reduce the value of that slice, especially if there are only a couple of full slices in the world of that material. Even if you don't break it if you sell it later there is a chance it could break in shipping. You can always sell the two half slices and the multiple crumbs then. Three. Another consideration is if the surface of the slice needs refinishing at some point (even if it is not in your lifetime) the odds again are higher that it will break while being worked on. A thicker slice can be resurfaced multiple times assuring it survives being studied, viewed and appreciated in the future. Four. Cutting specimens ultra thin causes waste of material. First you get more slices but at the lost of more material. One commenter mentioned 60% which sound right to me when cutting ultra thin. Again if the material is truly very limited, scientifically valuable material could be lost. I can appreciate cutting material where there is lots of that material and to cut ultra thin as there will be multiple kilos of it for sometime. For those who collect thin slices I am not picking on you but just posting my thoughts of these ultra thin cut slices and the pros and cons. Please don't take it personal. I do have some ultra thin slices in my collection. I coined the phrase that I am the current caretaker of the meteorite specimens I currently posses which will be past on to future generations. It is my job with that collection to try to preserve it best I can. --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD: Nininger: Out of the Sky, signed
Out of the Sky An Introduction to Meteoritics H. H. Nininger Publisher: The University of Denver Press, Denver CO 1952 Description: Tan Cloth Hard Cover, 336 pp. Book has been signed, inscribed and dated Aug. 2, 1956. Soiled scratched cover with wear along spine. Large water stain to pages 295-back cover small water stain to pages 11-148. Otherwise book is solid. DJ is missing I am asking for 130 $ Shipping Handling: Shipping is as follows $10.00 in the USA and international. If you are in doubt please email with questions. cu, Gegenschein -- GMX DSL Doppel-Flat ab 19,99 Euro/mtl.! Jetzt mit gratis Handy-Flat! http://portal.gmx.net/de/go/dsl __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Help with Ebay bidding
JasonHello All, I'd like to point out a few things. First and foremost is that we are meteorite collectors. Collectors. What does that mean? It means that for some irrational reason, we have all decided that it is a worthwhile endeavor to spend our hard-earned money on chunks of rock that happen to be a little different than the more easily available ones that have originated on earth. We buy them because we consider them to be 'interesting' or 'pretty,' and that's about it.. Everything Jason said in the complete post I agree with. A month or two ago I was looking some of these thin slices over on ebay and was immediately turned off by not knowing what the weights were. I felt like I was being told that the naked emperor's new clothes covered him up nicely. GeoZay __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] New Mexico Fire..
Hello, Michael Cottingham... I see the New Mexico fire season has started. Sorry to see it is in your neighborhood. I do hope that you and yours are safe and away from the fire. Prayers are with the Folks of Silver City... Dennis Miller __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Help with Ebay bidding
Can someone repost a link to these deli thin slices? I can't find a link and I am curious to see. Maybe the seller is using a deli meat-slicer? Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 3/8/11, geo...@aol.com geo...@aol.com wrote: JasonHello All, I'd like to point out a few things. First and foremost is that we are meteorite collectors. Collectors. What does that mean? It means that for some irrational reason, we have all decided that it is a worthwhile endeavor to spend our hard-earned money on chunks of rock that happen to be a little different than the more easily available ones that have originated on earth. We buy them because we consider them to be 'interesting' or 'pretty,' and that's about it.. Everything Jason said in the complete post I agree with. A month or two ago I was looking some of these thin slices over on ebay and was immediately turned off by not knowing what the weights were. I felt like I was being told that the naked emperor's new clothes covered him up nicely. GeoZay __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Help with Ebay bidding
I knew going in that I wasn't going to learn the weights until I weighed them myself...and I was a bit taken aback by how thin they were when they arrived; then I realized that I still had some prizes after all. I always learn something (no matter how small) when I add a piece to my collectionin this case, I learned the conditions of this particular seller's presentation and now I know what I'd be encountering if I choose to again in the future. Interestingly, right after this thread started, positive feedback arrived. -Richard Montgomery - Original Message - From: Michael Blood mlbl...@cox.net To: Jason Utas meteorite...@gmail.com; Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net Cc: Met. Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com; Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; valpar...@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 1:13 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Help with Ebay bidding Jason, Of course you are right - it is a matter of taste. As for a dealer withholding weight, that is not Reasonable - unless he doesn't want to open the Membrane box, or risk breakage or whatever. People Should just buy what they want and some want Weight and some want surface area. No question, given say a 30mm X 30mm all else Being equal (price and appearance) I would take the Thicker one - but if the thicker one is 3 times the $, Then I would always take the thinner one - but that Is just me. Michael On 3/7/11 9:24 PM, Jason Utas meteorite...@gmail.com wrote: Hello All, I'd like to point out a few things. First and foremost is that we are meteorite collectors. Collectors. What does that mean? It means that for some irrational reason, we have all decided that it is a worthwhile endeavor to spend our hard-earned money on chunks of rock that happen to be a little different than the more easily available ones that have originated on earth. We buy them because we consider them to be 'interesting' or 'pretty,' and that's about it. So when I hear collectors saying that they want to buy the thinnest slice possible of a given meteorite, it makes me want to stand back and ask...why? Such a comment does make a lot of sense. Since rarer types of meteorites are often very expensive (and are priced per gram), a thinner piece would logically be more easy to see -- if seeing the specimen were an issue. But, personally, from a collector's (my) point of view, I'd have to disagree. If I wanted a piece of a given meteorite, I'd gladly pay twice as much for the thick slab or endcut that weighed twice as much as a mm-thick slice of greater surface area. Why is that? It's because if I want a given meteorite, I don't just want a piece that feels like a cross between a baseball card and a credit card. I'd prefer a piece that has some heft to it. Perhaps that's not such a reasonable demand when one is talking about a lunar or a martian meteorite -- but there's a reason why Peter and I personally haven't bought very many of those. The few that we have purchased have been smaller complete individuals, and we prefer them to slices of equivalent weights. And since I'm a collector, and I prefer such pieces, those are the better ones. In my opinion. You guys should stop trying to push your wants on other people as common sense, because, if you prefer thin slices, that's your preference -- not mine. And neither one is better. Your desire is rational in one sense - if you're willing to spend only enough to buy a gram or so of the moon, then yes, I can see why you would prefer a wafer with a larger surface area. And I prefer specimens that have some weight and heft -- meteorites that I can see *and* feel. And there's much more to my rationale than just that. Stability, difficulty of preservation, and the fact that the prices for such specimens *are* significantly inflated in general all make these less desirable to me. That and the fact that I wouldn't feel comfortable with ever taking them out of a membrane box because I'd fear for the samples' safety. But, yes. I see where you're coming from. If visibility is your only criteria, then a thinner slice would logically appeal more to you. I personally don't find that attractive. So, when I emailed the ebay seller that led to this thread and asked for specimen weights several months ago -- and they crassly declined -- I opted not to purchase any of their specimens. Can I understand their supposed rationale for preferring thin slices with large surface areas? Sure. But they, as the seller, are obliged to give potential buyers the information they want about the material they're selling. Let's compare it to buying a house. You are looking at properties and are told by a seller that you can see some photos of their building, but they won't let you actually go inside it or know how many bedrooms or bathrooms it has before you buy it. The price seems fair based on what you know of the market, and can see from the
Re: [meteorite-list] Help with Ebay bidding
Ah! I knew the brecciated deli-meats topic would rise again! I saw some incredible olive inclusions in the Bologna slices the other day, (but not as nice as the shocked and compressed Turkey main mass.) Thin slices, too. -Richard Montgomery - Original Message - From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: geo...@aol.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 7:47 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Help with Ebay bidding Can someone repost a link to these deli thin slices? I can't find a link and I am curious to see. Maybe the seller is using a deli meat-slicer? Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 3/8/11, geo...@aol.com geo...@aol.com wrote: JasonHello All, I'd like to point out a few things. First and foremost is that we are meteorite collectors. Collectors. What does that mean? It means that for some irrational reason, we have all decided that it is a worthwhile endeavor to spend our hard-earned money on chunks of rock that happen to be a little different than the more easily available ones that have originated on earth. We buy them because we consider them to be 'interesting' or 'pretty,' and that's about it.. Everything Jason said in the complete post I agree with. A month or two ago I was looking some of these thin slices over on ebay and was immediately turned off by not knowing what the weights were. I felt like I was being told that the naked emperor's new clothes covered him up nicely. GeoZay __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD - 54 Auctions Ending Today!
Dear List Members, Just a quick note to let you know I have 54 auctions ending today. All were started at just 99 cents with no reserve. I have been rotating inventory as stock runs out on some very low TKW material so you may want to take a look if you can find the time. Link to all auctions: http://shop.ebay.com/raremeteorites!/m.html Thank you for looking and if you are bidding, good luck. Best Regards, Adam Hupe The Hupe Collection IMCA 2185 Team Lunar Rock __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD; My Internet site - the meteorites Pultusk Morasko and Kosice!
Hello everyone, For all interested I give the address www. where can see my specimens of meteorite Kosice, Pultusk and Morasko THE NEW GOOD PRICE! For example: 1. Meteorite Pultusk 1510g - http://www.artmet-meteoryty.pl/en/sklep/meteoryty/szczeguly.php?pokaz=84 2. Pultusk 640g - http://www.artmet-meteoryty.pl/en/sklep/meteoryty/szczeguly.php?pokaz=85 3. BIG Morasko 13kg - http://www.artmet-meteoryty.pl/en/sklep/meteoryty/szczeguly.php?pokaz=92 4. Big Morasko 28kg - http://www.artmet-meteoryty.pl/en/sklep/meteoryty/szczeguly.php?pokaz=93 5. New Kosice - http://www.artmet-meteoryty.pl/kosicec.html Please contact me if you have any questions: starry...@gmail.com Thank you everyone for looking Kind Regards, Lukas Smula www.artmet-meteoryty.pl __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] AD; My Internet site - the meteorites Pultusk Morasko and Kosice!
Hi Lukasz, Beautiful photos and specimens. Thanks for sharing them. :) Do you know if this meteorite has been submitted to the Meteoritical Society for inclusion in the Met Bulletin? Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 3/8/11, Lukasz Smula starry...@gmail.com wrote: Hello everyone, For all interested I give the address www. where can see my specimens of meteorite Kosice, Pultusk and Morasko THE NEW GOOD PRICE! For example: 1. Meteorite Pultusk 1510g - http://www.artmet-meteoryty.pl/en/sklep/meteoryty/szczeguly.php?pokaz=84 2. Pultusk 640g - http://www.artmet-meteoryty.pl/en/sklep/meteoryty/szczeguly.php?pokaz=85 3. BIG Morasko 13kg - http://www.artmet-meteoryty.pl/en/sklep/meteoryty/szczeguly.php?pokaz=92 4. Big Morasko 28kg - http://www.artmet-meteoryty.pl/en/sklep/meteoryty/szczeguly.php?pokaz=93 5. New Kosice - http://www.artmet-meteoryty.pl/kosicec.html Please contact me if you have any questions: starry...@gmail.com Thank you everyone for looking Kind Regards, Lukas Smula www.artmet-meteoryty.pl __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Where is all the Murchison???
Recently some of us had a discussion on Facebook about how rare Murchison seems to be. Rarely do you see as much as a gram available. The Heritage Auction has a huge Murchison, 535.9g individual (http://fineart.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=6061Lot_No=49046) Maybe I've missed them, or not privy to their availability, but where is all the Murchison between a gram and and this largest individual? Anyone? -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Mexico Fire..
Hello, Thanks. The main fires are about a mile from my house, but seem to be burning themselves out. We have lost about 20 homes in the area and this fire, because of the high winds, spread fast and furious, destroying everything in its path. It moved so fast that most folks in the area barley had time to leave. No deaths that I know of and that is good. Thanks for the good thoughts and prayers. Best Wishes Michael Cottingham On Mar 8, 2011, at 8:43 AM, Dennis Miller wrote: Hello, Michael Cottingham... I see the New Mexico fire season has started. Sorry to see it is in your neighborhood. I do hope that you and yours are safe and away from the fire. Prayers are with the Folks of Silver City... Dennis Miller __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Where is all the Murchison???
Hi Richard and List, HOLY CARBOS BATMAN! That is a whopper of a Murchison! If someone wants to buy that for me for my birthday, I will buy that person a beer and a cigar. ;) To answer your question - I don't know. The majority of Murchison that I see is broken fragments that are less than 50g and tiny crumbs in the 1g range. I rarely see individuals, and if I saw a complete crusted pea of 1-2g, I would pounce on it and my cabinet would grow by one. Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 3/8/11, Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com wrote: Recently some of us had a discussion on Facebook about how rare Murchison seems to be. Rarely do you see as much as a gram available. The Heritage Auction has a huge Murchison, 535.9g individual (http://fineart.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=6061Lot_No=49046) Maybe I've missed them, or not privy to their availability, but where is all the Murchison between a gram and and this largest individual? Anyone? -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Where is all the Murchison???
If nobody else publicly responds to your call, Richard, may be you better ask some dealers or collectors personally who are somehow known to have had some good pieces of Murch for sale in the past, or in their collection. If they have something to sell, good, else they may talk to you about sources in the more recent past. I can´t give much more advice on that. My personal piece of Murchison is a nice cut crusted individual which I bought from Bob Haag about fifteen or more years ago. May be he is the one who still has some for sale in the weight ranges needed? I really don´t know - but: good luck! Some of the list folks here may also make other suggestions or offers...??? Would be glad to read more about this. Alex Berlin/Germany Original-Nachricht Datum: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 11:36:55 -0800 (PST) Von: Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com An: meteorite list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] Where is all the Murchison??? Recently some of us had a discussion on Facebook about how rare Murchison seems to be. Rarely do you see as much as a gram available. The Heritage Auction has a huge Murchison, 535.9g individual (http://fineart.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=6061Lot_No=49046) Maybe I've missed them, or not privy to their availability, but where is all the Murchison between a gram and and this largest individual? Anyone? -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Where is all the Murchison???
I have some on my Hammers 2 page and a piece I haven't put up yet: http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/Hammers2.html Michael On 3/8/11 11:36 AM, Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com wrote: Recently some of us had a discussion on Facebook about how rare Murchison seems to be. Rarely do you see as much as a gram available. The Heritage Auction has a huge Murchison, 535.9g individual (http://fineart.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=6061Lot_No=49046) Maybe I've missed them, or not privy to their availability, but where is all the Murchison between a gram and and this largest individual? Anyone? -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Teachin' a pig to dance is a waste of time and it irritates the pig Mark Twain -- 1. Whenever you're wrong, admit it, 2. Whenever you're right, shut up. Shaquille O'Neal __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Where is all the Murchison???
I got word that a lot of it is being sliced real' thin... I just think it's one of the most sought after meteorites, so it's hard to find. Also, I'm sure a lot of it is in institutions for study. I remember a few years back I try to find some on the web... very few piece available. I finally got a nice piece (few grams) from Anne Black last year at Tucson. I have to agree - a beautiful specimen; I wish I was filthy rich sometimes. Greg S. Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 11:36:55 -0800 From: damoc...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Where is all the Murchison??? Recently some of us had a discussion on Facebook about how rare Murchison seems to be. Rarely do you see as much as a gram available. The Heritage Auction has a huge Murchison, 535.9g individual (http://fineart.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=6061Lot_No=49046) Maybe I've missed them, or not privy to their availability, but where is all the Murchison between a gram and and this largest individual? Anyone? -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Tasmania Australia Rock show announcements
My father is visiting me from Canada for a couple months and all his life has wanted to visit Tasmania so I have to bring him. By sheer coincidence there were two annual rock and mineral shows going on while we were going to be there. So I decided to get stalls at both shows. I am not sure how many people who could go to this but I know that there are at least several list members from Tasmania and a few meteorite collectors on the shipwreck island but I would like to announce two Rock shows that I will be attending in the next few weeks. I will have mostly gemstones and crystals but will have a few meteorites so drop by if you will attend. Its a perfect time of year to visit beautiful Tasmania. Rock shows are: -- Sat 19 March - Sun 20 March 2011 - Hobart Tasmania The Hobart Gem and Mineral Spectacular 2011 - Tasmania’s Hidden Treasures - presented by The Lapidary Club of Tasmania Inc, supported by The Mineralogical Society of Tasmania, Grandstand Hall, Hobart Showgrounds, Glenorchy, Tasmania --- And the next weekend Sat 26 March - Sun 27 March 2011 - Latrobe, northern Tasmania 'The Latrobe Gem and Mineral Fair', organised by the Devonport Lapidary Club, at the Latrobe Memorial Hall, Gilbert Street, Latrobe, Tasmania __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD - Last of the Orgueil with ASU provenance for sale.
Been selling this on ebay and facebook since the story broke... however it turns out, this just adds yet another awesome story to go with this historic meteorite. I have two lots left from the 371mg I made available, one is 110mg and the other is 15mg. I obtained this material from The Center for Meteorite Studies at Arizona State University personally in a trade and will provide full provenance documentation and a copy of the label from them. This is this best documented material for sale on ebay at this time, and when buying material like this, provenance is everything. 110mg lot http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=390295848576ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT 15mg lot http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=390295849000ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT Thanks for looking. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] CI1 meteorites and cyanobacteria
More scholarship from the Journal of Cosmology: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/03/i_am_getting_a_very_poor_impre.php __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Collection of Meteorite Articles - For Noobies and the Curious
Hi Listees! I have put together a portal page with links to all of the meteorite-related articles that I have written. These articles are written in layman's terms for newcomers and are designed to give the reader a basic grasp of the fundamentals of collecting meteorites. These are not meant to be authoritative or definitive (like David Weir's excellent Meteorite Studies site), but I hope some will find them informative and fun. Link - http://www.galactic-stone.com/pages/learn-about-meteorites Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] CI1 meteorites and cyanobacteria
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=13075522page=1 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Mexico Fire..
Michael, Just got in and read the news. Take care. Be safe. My best John Lutzon IMCA# 1896 - Original Message - From: michael cottingham mikew...@gilanet.com To: Dennis Miller astror...@hotmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 1:29 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New Mexico Fire.. Hello, Thanks. The main fires are about a mile from my house, but seem to be burning themselves out. We have lost about 20 homes in the area and this fire, because of the high winds, spread fast and furious, destroying everything in its path. It moved so fast that most folks in the area barley had time to leave. No deaths that I know of and that is good. Thanks for the good thoughts and prayers. Best Wishes Michael Cottingham On Mar 8, 2011, at 8:43 AM, Dennis Miller wrote: Hello, Michael Cottingham... I see the New Mexico fire season has started. Sorry to see it is in your neighborhood. I do hope that you and yours are safe and away from the fire. Prayers are with the Folks of Silver City... Dennis Miller __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Report Identifies Priority Missions for Planetary Science in the Next Decade
March 7, 2011 Contacts: Molly Galvin / Luwam Yiebio Media Relations Officer / Media Relations Assistant Office of News and Public Information +1 202-334-2138 n...@nas.edu REPORT IDENTIFIES PRIORITY MISSIONS FOR PLANETARY SCIENCE IN THE NEXT DECADE A new report from the National Research Council recommends a suite of planetary science flagship missions for the decade 2013-2022 that could provide a steady stream of important new discoveries about the solar system. However, if NASA's budget over that decade cannot support all of these missions, the agency should preserve smaller scale missions in its New Frontiers and Discovery programs first and delay some or all of the recommended large-scale missions, the report says. Research priorities were selected through a rigorous review that included input from five expert panels. The committee also sought extensive input from the planetary sciences community through town hall meetings and white papers. Recommendations are informed by NASA's own FY 2011 projected budget scenarios for 2013-2022. In addition, the committee hired a contractor to provide independent cost and technical analyses of select mission proposals. Our recommendations are science-driven, and they offer a balanced mix of missions -- large, medium, and small -- that have the potential to greatly expand our knowledge of the solar system, said Steven W. Squyres, professor of astronomy at the Center for Radiophysics and Space Research, Cornell University, Ithaca, N.Y., and chair of the committee that wrote the report. However, in these tough economic times, some difficult choices may have to be made. With that in mind, our priority missions were carefully selected based on their potential to yield the most scientific benefit per dollar spent. The Mars Astrobiology Explorer Cacher (MAX-C), a mission to Mars that could help determine whether the planet ever supported life and could also help answer questions about its geologic and climatic history, should be NASA's highest priority large mission, the report says. This mission will be the first step in a multipart effort to eventually return samples from the planet. The report stresses, however, that the mission should be conducted only if the cost to NASA is approximately $2.5 billion -- $1 billion less than the independent estimates provided to the committee. NASA and the European Space Agency, which would run the mission jointly, should work together to reduce the scope of the mission and ensure that both agencies still benefit. A mission to Jupiter's icy moon Europa and its subsurface ocean -- one of the most promising environments in the solar system for supporting life -- should be the second priority for NASA's large-scale planetary science missions. However, NASA should fly the Jupiter Europa Orbiter (JEO) only if NASA's budget for planetary science is increased, the report says, and JEO's mission scope is made more affordable. The independent estimate put the price tag at $4.7 billion. The committee concluded that unless costs could be brought down, conducting JEO would preclude too many other important missions. The third priority for large missions would be the Uranus Orbiter and Probe mission to investigate that planet's interior structure, atmosphere, and composition. The report says that this mission should be initiated between 2013 and 2022, but it should be subjected to rigorous, independent cost verification throughout its development and reduced or cancelled if costs grow significantly above its assessed $2.7 billion price tag. For medium-size missions, the report recommends that NASA select two new missions to be included in its New Frontiers program, which explores the solar system with frequent, mid-size spacecraft missions. Since its inception in 2003, the program has initiated two missions and is in the process of selecting a third. The committee recommends that NASA also select a fourth and fifth mission in the 2013-2023 time frame and identifies several candidates from which NASA could choose, but does not prioritize them. Instead, selection should be based on competitive peer review. Although the report does not make specific recommendations for small missions, it notes that NASA's Discovery Program of low-cost, highly focused planetary science investigations has made important contributions to science and should be continued at its current level of funding with adjustments for inflation. NASA should ensure a regular, balanced schedule of such missions. The committee also endorses the Mars Trace Gas Orbiter, a small mission outside of the Discovery program due to launch in 2016, as long as current plans for dividing responsibilities and costs between NASA and the European Space Agency remain. The National Science Foundation, which supports nearly all areas of planetary science except space missions, should expand its funding for existing laboratories and establish new facilities as needed, the report says. It also
[meteorite-list] Texas Meteor, 3UK meteors, and ISS/Space Shuttle videos
Dear List, ISS / Space Shuttle Pass over Italy Captured 7MAR2011 http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2011/03/iss-and-space-shuttle-pass-over-earth.html Hawley, TX meteor 8MAR2011 http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2011/03/hawley-texas-meteor-fireball-8mar2011.html Other: 3 UK meteor events http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2011/03/3-uk-meteor-events-7mar2011-8mar2011.html Best Always, Dirk Ross...Tokyo __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Some of Mars' Missing Carbon Dioxide May be Buried
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2011-071 Some of Mars' Missing Carbon Dioxide May be Buried Jet Propulsion Laboratory March 08, 2011 HOUSTON -- Rocks on Mars dug from far underground by crater-blasting impacts are providing glimpses of one possible way Mars' atmosphere has become much less dense than it used to be. At several places where cratering has exposed material from depths of about 5 kilometers (3 miles) or more beneath the surface, observations by a mineral-mapping instrument on NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter indicate carbonate minerals. These are not the first detections of carbonates on Mars. However, compared to earlier findings, they bear closer resemblance to what some scientists have theorized for decades about the whereabouts of Mars' missing carbon. If deeply buried carbonate layers are found to be widespread, they would help answer questions about the disappearance of most of ancient Mars' atmosphere, which is deduced to have been thick and mostly carbon dioxide. The carbon that goes into formation of carbonate minerals can come from atmospheric carbon dioxide. We're looking at a pretty lucky location in terms of exposing something that was deep beneath the surface, said planetary scientist James Wray of Cornell University, Ithaca, N.Y., who reported the latest carbonate findings today at the Lunar and Planetary Science Conference near Houston. Huygens crater, a basin 467 kilometers (290 miles) in diameter in the southern highlands of Mars, had already hoisted material from far underground, and then the rim of Huygens, containing the lifted material, was drilled into by a smaller, unnamed cratering event. Observations in the high-resolution mode of the Compact Reconnaissance Imaging Spectrometer for Mars (CRISM) instrument on the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter show spectral characteristics of calcium or iron carbonate at this site. Detections of clay minerals in lower-resolution mapping mode by CRISM had prompted closer examination with the spectrometer, and the carbonates are found near the clay minerals. Both types of minerals typically form in wet environments. The occurrence of this type of carbonate in association with the largest impact features suggests that it was buried by a few kilometers (or miles) of younger rocks, possibly including volcanic flows and fragmented material ejected from other, nearby impacts. These findings reinforce a report by other researchers five months ago identifying the same types of carbonate and clay minerals from CRISM observation of a site about 1,000 kilometers (600 miles) away. At that site, a meteor impact has exposed rocks from deep underground, inside Leighton crater. In their report of that discovery, Joseph Michalski of the Planetary Science Institute, Tucson, Ariz., and Paul Niles of NASA Johnson Space Center, Houston, proposed that the carbonates at Leighton might be only a small part of a much more extensive ancient sedimentary record that has been buried by volcanic resurfacing and impact ejecta. Carbonates found in rocks elsewhere on Mars, from orbit and by NASA's Spirit rover, are rich in magnesium. Those could form from reaction of volcanic deposits with moisture, Wray said. The broader compositional range we're seeing that includes iron-rich and calcium-rich carbonates couldn't form as easily from just a little bit of water reacting with igneous rocks. Calcium carbonate is what you typically find on Earth's ocean and lake floors. He said the carbonates at Huygens and Leighton fit what would be expected from atmospheric carbon dioxide interacting with ancient bodies of water on Mars. Key additional evidence would be to find similar deposits in other regions of Mars. A hunting guide for that search is the CRISM low-resolution mapping, which has covered about three-fourths of the planet and revealed clay-mineral deposits at thousands of locations. A dramatic change in atmospheric density remains one of the most intriguing possibilities about early Mars, said Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter Project Scientist Richard Zurek, of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. Increasing evidence for liquid water on the surface of ancient Mars for extended periods continues to suggest that the atmosphere used to be much thicker. Carbon dioxide makes up nearly all of today's Martian air and likely was most of a thicker early atmosphere, too. In today's thin, cold atmosphere, liquid water quickly freezes or boils away. What became of that carbon dioxide? NASA will launch the Mars Atmosphere and Volatile Evolution Mission (MAVEN) in 2013 to investigate processes that could have stripped the gas from the top of the atmosphere into interplanetary space. Meanwhile, CRISM and other instruments now in orbit continue to look for evidence that some of the carbon dioxide in that ancient atmosphere was removed, in the presence of liquid water, by formation of carbonate minerals now buried far beneath the present surface.
[meteorite-list] Interesting recent news stories of interest
Dear List, This post contains some interesting news that you may not want to miss, including: Impact Crater in Congo, Croatian Meteorite Found, Meteorite found in Israel, Chinese article claiming the world`s largest achondrite found (photos look fake to me) and several other links to stories. http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2011/03/recent-meteormeteorite-news-9mar2011.html Best Regards, Dirk Ross...Tokyo __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] CI1 meteorites and cyanobacteria
On the orther hand, the guy who owns the Journal of Cosmology website and published Hoover to raise money or to promote the sale of the website, drives a really nice car* https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/~rschild/morgan.html Somehow it makes a strange kind of sense that the owner of this website also drives a wooden automobile... Possibly the attempt to build a car out of cyanobacteria failed? Sterling K. Webb --- *Thanks to Darren Garrison for pointing out the car. --- - Original Message - From: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 6:53 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] CI1 meteorites and cyanobacteria http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=13075522page=1 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Massive Meteor in Manitoba, Canada - Air Raid Sirens Triggered (yet unconfirmed)
Dear List, Anyone with information please contact me; this sounds like a major event! Brandon, Manitoba Canada huge meteor seen last night 3:30 am 8MAR2011 Mar 9 2011, 9:09 AM Tokyo Timestamp Guest697 (guest) wrote: Huge, huge meteor seen last night at around 3:30 central time. Over Brandon, Manitoba Canada. Air Raid sirens were briefly heard right after impact. And many police roaming through the streets. Enormous meteor,flash of light upon impact in the form of a ring of light. http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2011/03/breaking-news-brandon-manitoba-canada.html Important! Anyone with more information, photos or video about this event please email me at: lunarmeteoritehun...@gmail.com (this story has not yet been confirmed!) Thank You! Dirk Ross...Tokyo __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Welcome home
Glad to see Mike Robert are back home! -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Welcome home
Hi Richard, Wow! That's great news, and more than a month earlier than originally expected (if I'm remember the April date correctly). Hopefully they are both in good health. Welcome home guys! Rob -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Richard Kowalski Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 6:32 PM To: meteorite list Subject: [meteorite-list] Welcome home Glad to see Mike Robert are back home! -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Welcome home
Richard, Where did you hear this? I did not see it on the list Michael On 3/8/11 6:32 PM, Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com wrote: Glad to see Mike Robert are back home! -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Teachin' a pig to dance is a waste of time and it irritates the pig Mark Twain -- 1. Whenever you're wrong, admit it, 2. Whenever you're right, shut up. Shaquille O'Neal __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Welcome home
That's good news. Greg S. Sent from my iPhone On Mar 8, 2011, at 6:32 PM, Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com wrote: Glad to see Mike Robert are back home! -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Welcome home
OK, sounds confirmed. I will now talk to Rubin about releasing the video of John Blennert's pre-auction lecture on hunting Gold Basin (John I did Not think it would be favorable to Mike and Rob's situation if A formerly Oman imprisoned meteorite hunter were broadcast worldwide At that time. Rubin or I will let you know when it is available. Michael On 3/8/11 7:06 PM, Michael Blood mlbl...@cox.net wrote: Richard, Where did you hear this? I did not see it on the list Michael On 3/8/11 6:32 PM, Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com wrote: Glad to see Mike Robert are back home! -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Teachin' a pig to dance is a waste of time and it irritates the pig Mark Twain -- 1. Whenever you're wrong, admit it, 2. Whenever you're right, shut up. Shaquille O'Neal __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Teachin' a pig to dance is a waste of time and it irritates the pig Mark Twain -- 1. Whenever you're wrong, admit it, 2. Whenever you're right, shut up. Shaquille O'Neal __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Earth Rocks! (Was: Help with Ebay bidding)
Hi Jason and Listers. Jason said [Perhaps modern art, most of all...something I'll never waste money on ; ] Really? Come on JK :) I was at the Phillips de Pury Company Under The Influence auction today were I got to see Stephen Colbert try to get people to bid more on a ink jet portrait of himself which at one time was worth nothing. But then Shepard Fairy and Andres Serrano went on his show and tagged up the inkjet print and re contextualized it and it sold for $26,000. But thats not the kicker whats the kicker is a painting called BIRD SHIT which looked like bird shit up and down the painting sold for around $50,000. Thats some shitty art might I add. And lastly to keep the PC for Meteorite Central there was a painting I saw that looked like a meteorite at the viewing house. http://photos.liveauctioneers.com/houses/resize/phillipsdepury/24158/0134_1_160_180.jpg and for those that want to see the BIRD SHIT painting here is the link http://www.modernedition.com/art-articles/unusual-mediums/unusual-art/dan-colen-bird-shit.jpg Shawn Alan IMCA 1633 eBaystore http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html [meteorite-list] Earth Rocks! (Was: Help with Ebay bidding) Jason Utas meteoritekid at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 04:54:59 EST 2011 Previous message: [meteorite-list] Earth Rocks! (Was: Help with Ebay bidding) Next message: [meteorite-list] Help with Ebay bidding Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Hello Eric, All, I didn't forget it; I cut it out of my first paragraph. Whether or not the matter itself is the same age, if one is paying $850/g for a thick slice of a lunar meteorite or $1000/g for a thinner one, the prices are still relative to each other, and the fact that the atoms themselves were created in the supernova that created our solar system is..a moot point. This was about the thickness of meteorite slices and desirability/pricing, no? I get what you're saying, and I agree with it, but I don't really get how it pertains to this discussion. That point would be relevant to a conversation about the irrationality of high monetary values assigned to anything without real practical/utilitarian value, but...that applies to all meteorites, thick or thin. [meteorite-list] Earth Rocks! (Was: Help with Ebay bidding) Jason Utas meteoritekid at gmail.com Tue Mar 8 04:54:59 EST 2011 Previous message: [meteorite-list] Earth Rocks! (Was: Help with Ebay bidding) Next message: [meteorite-list] Help with Ebay bidding Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Hello Eric, All, I didn't forget it; I cut it out of my first paragraph. Whether or not the matter itself is the same age, if one is paying $850/g for a thick slice of a lunar meteorite or $1000/g for a thinner one, the prices are still relative to each other, and the fact that the atoms themselves were created in the supernova that created our solar system is..a moot point. This was about the thickness of meteorite slices and desirability/pricing, no? I get what you're saying, and I agree with it, but I don't really get how it pertains to this discussion. That point would be relevant to a conversation about the irrationality of high monetary values assigned to anything without real practical/utilitarian value, but...that applies to all meteorites, thick or thin. [Perhaps modern art, most of all...something I'll never waste money on ; ] Regards, Jason Regards, Jason __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Where is all the Murchison - Shameless plug
Here's 2.3 grams http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=280640544691 Rob Wesel www.nakhladogmeteorites.com www.facebook.com/Nakhla.Dog.Meteorites www.facebook.com/Rob.Wesel -- We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] CI1 meteorites and cyanobacteria
I see he's successfully hiding the flux capacitor with that tree. From: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net To: photoph...@yahoo.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2011 20:14:15 -0600 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] CI1 meteorites and cyanobacteria On the orther hand, the guy who owns the Journal of Cosmology website and published Hoover to raise money or to promote the sale of the website, drives a really nice car* https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/~rschild/morgan.html Somehow it makes a strange kind of sense that the owner of this website also drives a wooden automobile... Possibly the attempt to build a car out of cyanobacteria failed? Sterling K. Webb --- *Thanks to Darren Garrison for pointing out the car. --- - Original Message - From: Shawn Alan To: Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2011 6:53 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] CI1 meteorites and cyanobacteria http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=13075522page=1 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Welcome home
Great news! Glad you guys made it home safely! - Original Message From: Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com To: meteorite list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, March 8, 2011 7:32:25 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Welcome home Glad to see Mike Robert are back home! -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of Day - March 9, 2011
http://www.rocksfromspace.org/March_9_2011.html --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of Day - March 9, 2011
Your efforts to bring us these daily treasures must intrude on your regular life but let me also say the effort itself is a true treasure and wonderment for us all. My profound thanks for dedicating yourself to this labor of love. I admire the quality of and the dedication to your work. Elton __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of Day - March 9, 2011
A lovely sentiment. Be hard for anyone to put it better. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: MEM mstrema...@yahoo.com Sent: Mar 8, 2011 11:16 PM To: Michael Johnson mich...@rocksfromspace.org, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of Day - March 9, 2011 Your efforts to bring us these daily treasures must intrude on your regular life but let me also say the effort itself is a true treasure and wonderment for us all. My profound thanks for dedicating yourself to this labor of love. I admire the quality of and the dedication to your work. Elton __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
