[meteorite-list] AD - EBAY - Sikhote-Alin and Imilac slice - Starting at 0.99 cents!!
Hey everyone, Just wanted to let you know that I have two listings ending this sunday evening. I am starting the listings at only 0.99 cents!!! The first one is a 122g Sikhote-Alin individual filled with regmaglypts. Take a look! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=130504903448ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT#ht_500wt_1156 The second one is a 38.6g Imilac Pallasite part slice. Beautiful olivine. Its stunning! http://cgi.ebay.com/Sikhote-Alin-Meteorite-122g-/130504906612?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item1e62b2d774#ht_500wt_1156 Hope everyone has a good week ahead, -- Felipe __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD: Beautiful Group of Auctions Started -10 Day Run!
Hello, Many Worth Keeping track of. Thanks, Michael Cottingham ALL SALE ITEMS HERE:http://stores.ebay.com/voyage-botanica-natural-history ALL AUCTIONS HERE: http://shop.ebay.com:80/merchant/meteorite-collector_W0QQLHQ5fAuctionZ1QQ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Breja
Hello All, Is there any new info regarding the classification of Breja? Does anyone have or plan to make a thin section of it? John IMCA# 1896 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Benguerir Japan Benefit Auction
Ryan and List Members, Thank you on behalf of the quake and tsunami victims of Japan. Best Always, Dirk...Tokyo Sorry for the very late response. The 4 OK large meteors have kept me very busy since 23MAR2011. --- On Fri, 4/1/11, fallingfus...@wi.rr.com fallingfus...@wi.rr.com wrote: From: fallingfus...@wi.rr.com fallingfus...@wi.rr.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Benguerir Japan Benefit Auction To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Friday, April 1, 2011, 10:15 AM Good Evening Everyone, Just a quick reminder the auction closes in less than 3 hours: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=270725585123ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT Thank you! Ryan __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteor/Meteor News with Ketchup
Dear List, I suggest that you all take a look at today`s The Latest Worldwide Meteor/Meteorite News. There are some newspaper articles that will require strong seasonings, maybe not just ketchup. http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2011/04/latest-worldwide-meteormeteorite-news.html Best Always, Dirk Ross...Tokyo __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] BS In The NYT: Black Market Trinkets From Space
This is one of the most sensationalized, biased, uninformed, and skewed article I've ever read on NYT's website regarding meteorites. Mainly the article focuses on the Gebel Kamil iron meteorite, however it paints a grim picture and tries to draw a connection to all meteorites implying that the private market is somehow damaging the science. Black Market Trinkets From Space: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/05/science/05meteorite.html Quote: Popular or not, the meteorites were taboo. In Egypt and elsewhere, scientists say, it is illegal without a permit to remove meteorites from a country. Quote: The scientists say they have relatively few samples compared with the booming illicit sales. Quote: Dr. Harvey of Case Western Reserve said the quandary applied to the scientific community as a whole. The rampant looting of meteorite sites and skyrocketing prices for the fragments, he said, “dramatically reduce who can get samples to do the research. Quote: The black market has exploded in size mainly because of a rush of new meteorites arriving from North Africa and the Arabian Peninsula. Quote: The collectors association, founded in 2004 in Nevada, now has hundreds of members around the globe. And while some traders deal in legitimate exports, many do not. One buyer expressed remorse after reading about scientific angst over the thriving market. “I’m very ashamed,” the buyer wrote on a blog. “I’m surely a part of the problem. This article is irresponsible and borderline yellow journalism from the NYT. They should be ashamed for running such a biased and uninformed story. Well over half of the article weighs on the disadvantages and more than infers a possible damage to science which is not there. It almost completely ignores the great good that's been accomplished through private collecting/hunting/curating or meteorites and the contributions that have been made by private collectors and hunters. It never mentions donations to institutions, how much of a sample is needed to study any meteorite, nor does it mention how many people it brings to the science. There is one very good quote from Anne which states: “The scientists do not have time to go hunt for their own meteorites, so somebody has to do it for them,” said Anne M. Black, president of the collectors association. “It’s common sense.” To the uninformed reader, and inexperienced meteorite collector the NYT article looks very bad and creates an artificially biased view from those not familiar with meteorites. It's purely political. I think it should be an article for MHC Magazine. To make it FAIR for everyone involved, I want ALL points of view, from all sides. From the scientific world, and the private market, as well as the points from the center. Anyone who would like the opportunity to tell the WHOLE story, who cares to write a rebuttal for the NYT's blatantly biased article, send me your info. I would be more than happy to publish it! Contact me with your comments, facts and opinions. This article will be both on the blog http://www.mhcmagazine.com/blog/ and in the next issue of the magazine! Regards, Eric Wichman MHC Magazine http://www.mhcmagazine.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] So all meteorites are illegal?
Thanks Dirk for posting your links. A direct one to the NY Times article http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/05/science/05meteorite.html?pagewanted=1_r=1hp An interesting quote: “It’s a black market,” said Ralph P. Harvey, a geologist at Case Western Reserve University who directs the federal search for meteorites in Antarctica. “It’s as organized as any drug trade and just as illegal.” Either Dr. Harvey is mis-informed, mis-quoted or is in the camp of misinformed scientists that believe meteorite ownership should be illegal to all. Good to see Anne B quoted in the article -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] BS In The NYT: Black Market Trinkets From Space
For those who are inclined to do so, you can certainly write a letter to the editor which may be published in the Opinions page of the NY times as a response: http://www.nytimes.com/content/help/site/editorial/letters/letters.html?ref=letters -YvW On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 2:30 PM, Meteorites USA e...@meteoritesusa.com wrote: This is one of the most sensationalized, biased, uninformed, and skewed article I've ever read on NYT's website regarding meteorites. Mainly the article focuses on the Gebel Kamil iron meteorite, however it paints a grim picture and tries to draw a connection to all meteorites implying that the private market is somehow damaging the science. Black Market Trinkets From Space: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/05/science/05meteorite.html Quote: Popular or not, the meteorites were taboo. In Egypt and elsewhere, scientists say, it is illegal without a permit to remove meteorites from a country. Quote: The scientists say they have relatively few samples compared with the booming illicit sales. Quote: Dr. Harvey of Case Western Reserve said the quandary applied to the scientific community as a whole. The rampant looting of meteorite sites and skyrocketing prices for the fragments, he said, “dramatically reduce who can get samples to do the research. Quote: The black market has exploded in size mainly because of a rush of new meteorites arriving from North Africa and the Arabian Peninsula. Quote: The collectors association, founded in 2004 in Nevada, now has hundreds of members around the globe. And while some traders deal in legitimate exports, many do not. One buyer expressed remorse after reading about scientific angst over the thriving market. “I’m very ashamed,” the buyer wrote on a blog. “I’m surely a part of the problem. This article is irresponsible and borderline yellow journalism from the NYT. They should be ashamed for running such a biased and uninformed story. Well over half of the article weighs on the disadvantages and more than infers a possible damage to science which is not there. It almost completely ignores the great good that's been accomplished through private collecting/hunting/curating or meteorites and the contributions that have been made by private collectors and hunters. It never mentions donations to institutions, how much of a sample is needed to study any meteorite, nor does it mention how many people it brings to the science. There is one very good quote from Anne which states: “The scientists do not have time to go hunt for their own meteorites, so somebody has to do it for them,” said Anne M. Black, president of the collectors association. “It’s common sense.” To the uninformed reader, and inexperienced meteorite collector the NYT article looks very bad and creates an artificially biased view from those not familiar with meteorites. It's purely political. I think it should be an article for MHC Magazine. To make it FAIR for everyone involved, I want ALL points of view, from all sides. From the scientific world, and the private market, as well as the points from the center. Anyone who would like the opportunity to tell the WHOLE story, who cares to write a rebuttal for the NYT's blatantly biased article, send me your info. I would be more than happy to publish it! Contact me with your comments, facts and opinions. This article will be both on the blog http://www.mhcmagazine.com/blog/ and in the next issue of the magazine! Regards, Eric Wichman MHC Magazine http://www.mhcmagazine.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] So all meteorites are illegal?
I just spoke with Dr Ralph Harvey a little bit about his quotes. Given his research and history, I wanted to better understand his comments. It seems his comments were taken out of context to some degree (so he states) and mentioned to me he was speaking to meteorites recovered without proper export permits and documentation (specifically mentioned Egypt) from countries that do not allow export that are openly offered for sale - even by IMCA members. I know this is a heated issue and there is a lot of opinions, but I think this is something we need to address... there are even websites that claim NWA meteorites help terrorism! Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Mon, 4/4/11, Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com Subject: [meteorite-list] So all meteorites are illegal? To: meteorite list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Monday, April 4, 2011, 3:31 PM Thanks Dirk for posting your links. A direct one to the NY Times article http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/05/science/05meteorite.html?pagewanted=1_r=1hp An interesting quote: “It’s a black market,” said Ralph P. Harvey, a geologist at Case Western Reserve University who directs the federal search for meteorites in Antarctica. “It’s as organized as any drug trade and just as illegal.” Either Dr. Harvey is mis-informed, mis-quoted or is in the camp of misinformed scientists that believe meteorite ownership should be illegal to all. Good to see Anne B quoted in the article -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] BS In The NYT: Black Market Trinkets From Space
Perhaps one of the many esteemed researchers on this list would be kind enough to write a rebuttal. Matt Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 -Original Message- From: Yinan Wang veom...@gmail.com Sender: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 14:44:02 To: Meteorite-listmeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] BS In The NYT: Black Market Trinkets From Space For those who are inclined to do so, you can certainly write a letter to the editor which may be published in the Opinions page of the NY times as a response: http://www.nytimes.com/content/help/site/editorial/letters/letters.html?ref=letters -YvW On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 2:30 PM, Meteorites USA e...@meteoritesusa.com wrote: This is one of the most sensationalized, biased, uninformed, and skewed article I've ever read on NYT's website regarding meteorites. Mainly the article focuses on the Gebel Kamil iron meteorite, however it paints a grim picture and tries to draw a connection to all meteorites implying that the private market is somehow damaging the science. Black Market Trinkets From Space: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/05/science/05meteorite.html Quote: Popular or not, the meteorites were taboo. In Egypt and elsewhere, scientists say, it is illegal without a permit to remove meteorites from a country. Quote: The scientists say they have relatively few samples compared with the booming illicit sales. Quote: Dr. Harvey of Case Western Reserve said the quandary applied to the scientific community as a whole. The rampant looting of meteorite sites and skyrocketing prices for the fragments, he said, “dramatically reduce who can get samples to do the research. Quote: The black market has exploded in size mainly because of a rush of new meteorites arriving from North Africa and the Arabian Peninsula. Quote: The collectors association, founded in 2004 in Nevada, now has hundreds of members around the globe. And while some traders deal in legitimate exports, many do not. One buyer expressed remorse after reading about scientific angst over the thriving market. “I’m very ashamed,” the buyer wrote on a blog. “I’m surely a part of the problem. This article is irresponsible and borderline yellow journalism from the NYT. They should be ashamed for running such a biased and uninformed story. Well over half of the article weighs on the disadvantages and more than infers a possible damage to science which is not there. It almost completely ignores the great good that's been accomplished through private collecting/hunting/curating or meteorites and the contributions that have been made by private collectors and hunters. It never mentions donations to institutions, how much of a sample is needed to study any meteorite, nor does it mention how many people it brings to the science. There is one very good quote from Anne which states: “The scientists do not have time to go hunt for their own meteorites, so somebody has to do it for them,” said Anne M. Black, president of the collectors association. “It’s common sense.” To the uninformed reader, and inexperienced meteorite collector the NYT article looks very bad and creates an artificially biased view from those not familiar with meteorites. It's purely political. I think it should be an article for MHC Magazine. To make it FAIR for everyone involved, I want ALL points of view, from all sides. From the scientific world, and the private market, as well as the points from the center. Anyone who would like the opportunity to tell the WHOLE story, who cares to write a rebuttal for the NYT's blatantly biased article, send me your info. I would be more than happy to publish it! Contact me with your comments, facts and opinions. This article will be both on the blog http://www.mhcmagazine.com/blog/ and in the next issue of the magazine! Regards, Eric Wichman MHC Magazine http://www.mhcmagazine.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] BS In The NYT: Black Market Trinkets From Space
Dear List, The blog mentioned in the NYT article: http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/3919089/page/4/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1 Dr. Ralph P. Harvey page: http://geology.cwru.edu/~harvey/ Best Regards, Dirk Ross...Tokyo --- On Tue, 4/5/11, m...@mhmeteorites.com m...@mhmeteorites.com wrote: From: m...@mhmeteorites.com m...@mhmeteorites.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] BS In The NYT: Black Market Trinkets From Space To: Yinan Wang veom...@gmail.com, meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com, Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Tuesday, April 5, 2011, 4:51 AM Perhaps one of the many esteemed researchers on this list would be kind enough to write a rebuttal. Matt Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 -Original Message- From: Yinan Wang veom...@gmail.com Sender: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 14:44:02 To: Meteorite-listmeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] BS In The NYT: Black Market Trinkets From Space For those who are inclined to do so, you can certainly write a letter to the editor which may be published in the Opinions page of the NY times as a response: http://www.nytimes.com/content/help/site/editorial/letters/letters.html?ref=letters -YvW On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 2:30 PM, Meteorites USA e...@meteoritesusa.com wrote: This is one of the most sensationalized, biased, uninformed, and skewed article I've ever read on NYT's website regarding meteorites. Mainly the article focuses on the Gebel Kamil iron meteorite, however it paints a grim picture and tries to draw a connection to all meteorites implying that the private market is somehow damaging the science. Black Market Trinkets From Space: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/05/science/05meteorite.html Quote: Popular or not, the meteorites were taboo. In Egypt and elsewhere, scientists say, it is illegal without a permit to remove meteorites from a country. Quote: The scientists say they have relatively few samples compared with the booming illicit sales. Quote: Dr. Harvey of Case Western Reserve said the quandary applied to the scientific community as a whole. The rampant looting of meteorite sites and skyrocketing prices for the fragments, he said, “dramatically reduce who can get samples to do the research. Quote: The black market has exploded in size mainly because of a rush of new meteorites arriving from North Africa and the Arabian Peninsula. Quote: The collectors association, founded in 2004 in Nevada, now has hundreds of members around the globe. And while some traders deal in legitimate exports, many do not. One buyer expressed remorse after reading about scientific angst over the thriving market. “I’m very ashamed,” the buyer wrote on a blog. “I’m surely a part of the problem. This article is irresponsible and borderline yellow journalism from the NYT. They should be ashamed for running such a biased and uninformed story. Well over half of the article weighs on the disadvantages and more than infers a possible damage to science which is not there. It almost completely ignores the great good that's been accomplished through private collecting/hunting/curating or meteorites and the contributions that have been made by private collectors and hunters. It never mentions donations to institutions, how much of a sample is needed to study any meteorite, nor does it mention how many people it brings to the science. There is one very good quote from Anne which states: “The scientists do not have time to go hunt for their own meteorites, so somebody has to do it for them,” said Anne M. Black, president of the collectors association. “It’s common sense.” To the uninformed reader, and inexperienced meteorite collector the NYT article looks very bad and creates an artificially biased view from those not familiar with meteorites. It's purely political. I think it should be an article for MHC Magazine. To make it FAIR for everyone involved, I want ALL points of view, from all sides. From the scientific world, and the private market, as well as the points from the center. Anyone who would like the opportunity to tell the WHOLE story, who cares to write a rebuttal for the NYT's blatantly biased article, send me your info. I would be more than happy to publish it! Contact me with your comments, facts and opinions. This article will be both on the blog http://www.mhcmagazine.com/blog/ and in the next issue of the magazine! Regards, Eric Wichman MHC Magazine http://www.mhcmagazine.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list
Re: [meteorite-list] So all meteorites are illegal?
Greg, I'm glad you spoke with the source, Dr. Harvey. Its good to hear he was mis-quoted. I believe that to my core. As someone who has been interviewed many times over the past decade, even being allowed to read and comment on copy before it goes to print (believe me, a hugely rare event!) the editor has the final say and can and often does change and rewrite the article. I've had writers toil over getting the facts correct only to have the article full of mistakes. The facts got in the way of a good story. I'd urge anyone wishing to contact Dr. Harvey, take a day and email him tomorrow. Or in several days. I'm sure he is getting inundated with calls and emails about this from the community. Knowing how busy he probably is, I have no doubt he may be regretting commenting about this just because of the time sink it could become. Cheers -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] BS In The NYT: Black Market Trinkets From Space
I'd point the editors to the mountain of rebuttals that Martin Altmann has posted to the List in the past on the subject of meteorites and laws. The collector versus science pseudo-conflict makes for dramatic reading, but it has no basis in reality. Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 4/4/11, m...@mhmeteorites.com m...@mhmeteorites.com wrote: Perhaps one of the many esteemed researchers on this list would be kind enough to write a rebuttal. Matt Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 -Original Message- From: Yinan Wang veom...@gmail.com Sender: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 14:44:02 To: Meteorite-listmeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] BS In The NYT: Black Market Trinkets From Space For those who are inclined to do so, you can certainly write a letter to the editor which may be published in the Opinions page of the NY times as a response: http://www.nytimes.com/content/help/site/editorial/letters/letters.html?ref=letters -YvW On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 2:30 PM, Meteorites USA e...@meteoritesusa.com wrote: This is one of the most sensationalized, biased, uninformed, and skewed article I've ever read on NYT's website regarding meteorites. Mainly the article focuses on the Gebel Kamil iron meteorite, however it paints a grim picture and tries to draw a connection to all meteorites implying that the private market is somehow damaging the science. Black Market Trinkets From Space: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/05/science/05meteorite.html Quote: Popular or not, the meteorites were taboo. In Egypt and elsewhere, scientists say, it is illegal without a permit to remove meteorites from a country. Quote: The scientists say they have relatively few samples compared with the booming illicit sales. Quote: Dr. Harvey of Case Western Reserve said the quandary applied to the scientific community as a whole. The rampant looting of meteorite sites and skyrocketing prices for the fragments, he said, “dramatically reduce who can get samples to do the research. Quote: The black market has exploded in size mainly because of a rush of new meteorites arriving from North Africa and the Arabian Peninsula. Quote: The collectors association, founded in 2004 in Nevada, now has hundreds of members around the globe. And while some traders deal in legitimate exports, many do not. One buyer expressed remorse after reading about scientific angst over the thriving market. “I’m very ashamed,” the buyer wrote on a blog. “I’m surely a part of the problem. This article is irresponsible and borderline yellow journalism from the NYT. They should be ashamed for running such a biased and uninformed story. Well over half of the article weighs on the disadvantages and more than infers a possible damage to science which is not there. It almost completely ignores the great good that's been accomplished through private collecting/hunting/curating or meteorites and the contributions that have been made by private collectors and hunters. It never mentions donations to institutions, how much of a sample is needed to study any meteorite, nor does it mention how many people it brings to the science. There is one very good quote from Anne which states: “The scientists do not have time to go hunt for their own meteorites, so somebody has to do it for them,” said Anne M. Black, president of the collectors association. “It’s common sense.” To the uninformed reader, and inexperienced meteorite collector the NYT article looks very bad and creates an artificially biased view from those not familiar with meteorites. It's purely political. I think it should be an article for MHC Magazine. To make it FAIR for everyone involved, I want ALL points of view, from all sides. From the scientific world, and the private market, as well as the points from the center. Anyone who would like the opportunity to tell the WHOLE story, who cares to write a rebuttal for the NYT's blatantly biased article, send me your info. I would be more than happy to publish it! Contact me with your comments, facts and opinions. This article will be both on the blog http://www.mhcmagazine.com/blog/ and in the next issue of the magazine! Regards, Eric Wichman MHC Magazine http://www.mhcmagazine.com __ Visit the Archives at
Re: [meteorite-list] So all meteorites are illegal?
I agree with Richard, and also if you do contact him, be very polite. He has done a good amount of research on meteorites and is a nice person to talk with. I wanted to post about my discussion with him so others knew his comments were out of context. After reading the article then researching him, I shocked me he would have such a strong stance and opinion based on his work he has done. Hope everyone is doing good today, Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Mon, 4/4/11, Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com wrote: From: Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] So all meteorites are illegal? To: meteorite list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Monday, April 4, 2011, 4:06 PM Greg, I'm glad you spoke with the source, Dr. Harvey. Its good to hear he was mis-quoted. I believe that to my core. As someone who has been interviewed many times over the past decade, even being allowed to read and comment on copy before it goes to print (believe me, a hugely rare event!) the editor has the final say and can and often does change and rewrite the article. I've had writers toil over getting the facts correct only to have the article full of mistakes. The facts got in the way of a good story. I'd urge anyone wishing to contact Dr. Harvey, take a day and email him tomorrow. Or in several days. I'm sure he is getting inundated with calls and emails about this from the community. Knowing how busy he probably is, I have no doubt he may be regretting commenting about this just because of the time sink it could become. Cheers -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] So all meteorites are illegal?
and again the subject line changing... and now we might have 3 threads for the same discussion. I really don't get this forum anarchy with subject lines... Cheers Michael B. From: Richard Kowalski Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 9:31 PM To: meteorite list Subject: [meteorite-list] So all meteorites are illegal? Thanks Dirk for posting your links. A direct one to the NY Times article http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/05/science/05meteorite.html?pagewanted=1_r=1hp An interesting quote: “It’s a black market,” said Ralph P. Harvey, a geologist at Case Western Reserve University who directs the federal search for meteorites in Antarctica. “It’s as organized as any drug trade and just as illegal.” Either Dr. Harvey is mis-informed, mis-quoted or is in the camp of misinformed scientists that believe meteorite ownership should be illegal to all. Good to see Anne B quoted in the article -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Norman, Okla. / Okla members
Dear List, Would the list members in Oklahoma kindly contact me OFFLIST. I need some assistance with meteorite-related matters. Thank you. Dirk Ross...Tokyo Sorry to the rest of you, but I have no idea who on this list lives in Oklahoma. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] BS In The NYT: Black Market Trinkets From Space
Mike- Good point. Martin has written excellent material along these these lines. -Walter - - Original Message - From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: m...@mhmeteorites.com Cc: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com; Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 4:07 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] BS In The NYT: Black Market Trinkets From Space I'd point the editors to the mountain of rebuttals that Martin Altmann has posted to the List in the past on the subject of meteorites and laws. The collector versus science pseudo-conflict makes for dramatic reading, but it has no basis in reality. Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 4/4/11, m...@mhmeteorites.com m...@mhmeteorites.com wrote: Perhaps one of the many esteemed researchers on this list would be kind enough to write a rebuttal. Matt Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 -Original Message- From: Yinan Wang veom...@gmail.com Sender: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 14:44:02 To: Meteorite-listmeteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] BS In The NYT: Black Market Trinkets From Space For those who are inclined to do so, you can certainly write a letter to the editor which may be published in the Opinions page of the NY times as a response: http://www.nytimes.com/content/help/site/editorial/letters/letters.html?ref=letters -YvW On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 2:30 PM, Meteorites USA e...@meteoritesusa.com wrote: This is one of the most sensationalized, biased, uninformed, and skewed article I've ever read on NYT's website regarding meteorites. Mainly the article focuses on the Gebel Kamil iron meteorite, however it paints a grim picture and tries to draw a connection to all meteorites implying that the private market is somehow damaging the science. Black Market Trinkets From Space: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/05/science/05meteorite.html Quote: Popular or not, the meteorites were taboo. In Egypt and elsewhere, scientists say, it is illegal without a permit to remove meteorites from a country. Quote: The scientists say they have relatively few samples compared with the booming illicit sales. Quote: Dr. Harvey of Case Western Reserve said the quandary applied to the scientific community as a whole. The rampant looting of meteorite sites and skyrocketing prices for the fragments, he said, “dramatically reduce who can get samples to do the research. Quote: The black market has exploded in size mainly because of a rush of new meteorites arriving from North Africa and the Arabian Peninsula. Quote: The collectors association, founded in 2004 in Nevada, now has hundreds of members around the globe. And while some traders deal in legitimate exports, many do not. One buyer expressed remorse after reading about scientific angst over the thriving market. “I’m very ashamed,” the buyer wrote on a blog. “I’m surely a part of the problem. This article is irresponsible and borderline yellow journalism from the NYT. They should be ashamed for running such a biased and uninformed story. Well over half of the article weighs on the disadvantages and more than infers a possible damage to science which is not there. It almost completely ignores the great good that's been accomplished through private collecting/hunting/curating or meteorites and the contributions that have been made by private collectors and hunters. It never mentions donations to institutions, how much of a sample is needed to study any meteorite, nor does it mention how many people it brings to the science. There is one very good quote from Anne which states: “The scientists do not have time to go hunt for their own meteorites, so somebody has to do it for them,” said Anne M. Black, president of the collectors association. “It’s common sense.” To the uninformed reader, and inexperienced meteorite collector the NYT article looks very bad and creates an artificially biased view from those not familiar with meteorites. It's purely political. I think it should be an article for MHC Magazine. To make it FAIR for everyone involved, I want ALL points of view, from all sides. From the scientific world, and the private market, as well as the points from the center. Anyone who would like the opportunity to tell the WHOLE story, who cares to write a rebuttal for the NYT's blatantly biased article, send me
[meteorite-list] Japan fund donation thanks- Oum Dreyga
Dear list members, We would like to publicly thank all of the list members who generously and aggressively bid on the Oum Dreyga stone offered on Ebay as a 100% donation item to help with the tragic situation ongoing in Japan right now. Patrick and I feel that it was a huge success. We offered a 91 gram complete stone which sold for $636.00! All of this money provided by a very generous bidder is going to the Japan Earthquake and Tsunami Fund. Within minutes of announcing this offering to the list over 200 people viewed the item. Again, thank you all for your generous bid efforts. Sincerely, E.T. and Patrick __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] BS In The NYT: Black Market Trinkets From Space
Hey Greg, Well, if the NYT article is not insulting enough to everyone in the meteorite world, the link Dirk posted earlier on his site from another blogger here: http://www.minyanville.com/dailyfeed/illegal-meteorite-trade-surges-angering/ Quote: The problem, of course, is that these treasures of science are winding up in the hands of collectors, and not actual scientists. H... A well informed blog post written by someone who read the NYT article and did an Ebay search. Damn good blogging there I tell you! Regards, Eric On 4/4/2011 2:02 PM, Thunder Stone wrote: Wow - Another example of a MediaWrong It's just too bad. I can't even imagine the 1000's of type specimens provided to institutions throughout the world by private meteorite hunters; not even to mention the specimens donated or sold to museums for display and study. Greg S. Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 12:30:53 -0700 From: e...@meteoritesusa.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] BS In The NYT: Black Market Trinkets From Space This is one of the most sensationalized, biased, uninformed, and skewed article I've ever read on NYT's website regarding meteorites. Mainly the article focuses on the Gebel Kamil iron meteorite, however it paints a grim picture and tries to draw a connection to all meteorites implying that the private market is somehow damaging the science. Black Market Trinkets From Space: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/05/science/05meteorite.html Quote: Popular or not, the meteorites were taboo. In Egypt and elsewhere, scientists say, it is illegal without a permit to remove meteorites from a country. Quote: The scientists say they have relatively few samples compared with the booming illicit sales. Quote: Dr. Harvey of Case Western Reserve said the quandary applied to the scientific community as a whole. The rampant looting of meteorite sites and skyrocketing prices for the fragments, he said, “dramatically reduce who can get samples to do the research. Quote: The black market has exploded in size mainly because of a rush of new meteorites arriving from North Africa and the Arabian Peninsula. Quote: The collectors association, founded in 2004 in Nevada, now has hundreds of members around the globe. And while some traders deal in legitimate exports, many do not. One buyer expressed remorse after reading about scientific angst over the thriving market. “I’m very ashamed,” the buyer wrote on a blog. “I’m surely a part of the problem. This article is irresponsible and borderline yellow journalism from the NYT. They should be ashamed for running such a biased and uninformed story. Well over half of the article weighs on the disadvantages and more than infers a possible damage to science which is not there. It almost completely ignores the great good that's been accomplished through private collecting/hunting/curating or meteorites and the contributions that have been made by private collectors and hunters. It never mentions donations to institutions, how much of a sample is needed to study any meteorite, nor does it mention how many people it brings to the science. There is one very good quote from Anne which states: “The scientists do not have time to go hunt for their own meteorites, so somebody has to do it for them,” said Anne M. Black, president of the collectors association. “It’s common sense.” To the uninformed reader, and inexperienced meteorite collector the NYT article looks very bad and creates an artificially biased view from those not familiar with meteorites. It's purely political. I think it should be an article for MHC Magazine. To make it FAIR for everyone involved, I want ALL points of view, from all sides. From the scientific world, and the private market, as well as the points from the center. Anyone who would like the opportunity to tell the WHOLE story, who cares to write a rebuttal for the NYT's blatantly biased article, send me your info. I would be more than happy to publish it! Contact me with your comments, facts and opinions. This article will be both on the blog http://www.mhcmagazine.com/blog/ and in the next issue of the magazine! Regards, Eric Wichman MHC Magazine http://www.mhcmagazine.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] BS In The NYT: Black Market Trinkets From Space
WOW!, This is very disturbing. I cannot listen to any more of this and say nothing. The New York Times has reduced itself, once again, to a lousy rag by demonstrating a bias towards bad news instead of the truth. It is this ratings over responsibility attitude that is putting us into a bad light. What used to be considered a respectful hobby/avocation a few years ago is going the way of the Treasure Hunter. Treasure hunters were considered the lowest life form on the planet due to all of the bad press in the 70s and 80s. A few got lucky and found valuable items. A few got their 15 minutes worth of fame and ruined it for everybody else by bragging, overvaluing objects they found and making promises that were never kept. A few bad apples broke the law and ruined it for everybody else who were legally searching at the time. The press reported only the bad situations and the next thing you know, half of the searchable property was off limits within a single decade. Amateur treasure hunting is barely recovering from all this decades later. Most treasure hunters have learned to keep quite while others have not learned this valuable lesson. Unfortunately, my predication that the avocations of meteorite hunting/collecting would go the same way as the treasure hunters a few years ago is now approaching reality. It is easy to forget that it used to be considered mutually beneficial for all involved to collaborate, the scientist, the dealer and the collector alike. It seems with all of the new interest, the press ignores this delicate collaboration and only seems to focus on the bad and untrue. I have always said, you make enough noise good or bad, you will attract attention, usually the wrong kind. It is disturbing that meteorite hunting is now considered only treasure hunting when it goes far beyond this. A few are ruining a perfectly respectably avocation by focusing only on the treasure hunting and money aspect of it. Labs are closing down to the public, voluntary associations are tied up with meteor wrongs, public land is being withdrawn from searching and idiots are coming out of the woodwork to get a bite at the golden meteorite apple that was promised on TV. These idiots think meteorites are lying around like Easter Eggs and that breaking the law to get them might be alright too. Some of these idiots have pronounced themselves meteoriticists and are garnering as much press as possible spewing forth B.S. They are making legitimate hunters, collectors and dealers all look bad. Sorry, needed to release some steam. I just hate to see a few ruin it for the many. Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] BS In The NYT: Black Market Trinkets From Space
Not only that, but now you have to pay the NYT to read their dumb articles. I propose that Martin Altmann compose a scathing rebuttal to this melange of blithering blather. __ Phil Whitmer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] BS In The NYT: Black Market Trinkets From Space
No Phil. I have perhaps only still 30-40 years to live. Knock on wood. I'm no almoner, nor - other than them - I'm so parasitic to be paid by the public for insulting and for doing damage to other people and to my professional branch. Rather than hunting reckless idiots, who seem to haven't had any form of education at home, I would like to hunt meteorites. The stones are most important for science and not these few single intellectual will-o-wisps. They are replaceable, the work the private meteorite sector does, is not. In my eyes, with that article Dr.Harvey and Dr.DiMartino made an exhibition of themselves. They should be ashamed. They're a shame for their guild. I think we all here on the list expect an apology from them and a rectification by them published in the same place. Everything else, neither a discussion with these persons, wouldn't make sense, before that hasn't happened. In former times people really had more manners, education, sense of responsibility and knowledge. Such people make the new times, we have to live in, and that makes me puke. Martin (Sorry for that expression - in my next post, you will see something more unbelievable than that NYT-article, so that you will forgive me not to have kept countenance...) -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von JoshuaTreeMuseum Gesendet: Dienstag, 5. April 2011 01:15 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] BS In The NYT: Black Market Trinkets From Space Not only that, but now you have to pay the NYT to read their dumb articles. I propose that Martin Altmann compose a scathing rebuttal to this melange of blithering blather. __ Phil Whitmer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] BS In The NYT: Black Market Trinkets From Space
Folks, This sounds like déjà vu all over again. While it's obvious this article has major flaws. The basic problem/ issue was discussed not so long ago on this very list. That being that the export of this material from Egypt may be an illegal act. If so it does not make it legal because they did not get caught. I think some argued that it was not illegal while others argued it was illegal to remove *anything* from Egypt. Meteorites fall within the *anything* category. In that thread nobody ever showed evidence either way. Just opposing opinions. Does anybody have knowledge of whether or not *anything* can be exported from Egypt by means of looting or otherwise? That remains the critical question here. We know most of the material hit the market. There were tons of pictures of it posted on this list from people at Munich show. The question is; what color the market is for that particular material. ? Seems a bit *black Market* to me. And if it is as Greg C. said. Maybe the IMCA should resolve this color issue. Once and for all. If it was illegal to remove from Egypt. What if anything should be done about it? In the case of Campo I heard that once it was illegal to export people just began finding campos in neighboring countries that it was legal to export from. Seems very fortuitous the strewnfield stretched over borders . my 2 cents. Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Meteorites USA e...@meteoritesusa.com wrote: Hey Greg, Well, if the NYT article is not insulting enough to everyone in the meteorite world, the link Dirk posted earlier on his site from another blogger here: http://www.minyanville.com/dailyfeed/illegal-meteorite-trade-surges-angering/ Quote: The problem, of course, is that these treasures of science are winding up in the hands of collectors, and not actual scientists. H... A well informed blog post written by someone who read the NYT article and did an Ebay search. Damn good blogging there I tell you! Regards, Eric On 4/4/2011 2:02 PM, Thunder Stone wrote: Wow - Another example of a MediaWrong It's just too bad. I can't even imagine the 1000's of type specimens provided to institutions throughout the world by private meteorite hunters; not even to mention the specimens donated or sold to museums for display and study. Greg S. Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 12:30:53 -0700 From: e...@meteoritesusa.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] BS In The NYT: Black Market Trinkets From Space This is one of the most sensationalized, biased, uninformed, and skewed article I've ever read on NYT's website regarding meteorites. Mainly the article focuses on the Gebel Kamil iron meteorite, however it paints a grim picture and tries to draw a connection to all meteorites implying that the private market is somehow damaging the science. Black Market Trinkets From Space: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/05/science/05meteorite.html Quote: Popular or not, the meteorites were taboo. In Egypt and elsewhere, scientists say, it is illegal without a permit to remove meteorites from a country. Quote: The scientists say they have relatively few samples compared with the booming illicit sales. Quote: Dr. Harvey of Case Western Reserve said the quandary applied to the scientific community as a whole. The rampant looting of meteorite sites and skyrocketing prices for the fragments, he said, “dramatically reduce who can get samples to do the research. Quote: The black market has exploded in size mainly because of a rush of new meteorites arriving from North Africa and the Arabian Peninsula. Quote: The collectors association, founded in 2004 in Nevada, now has hundreds of members around the globe. And while some traders deal in legitimate exports, many do not. One buyer expressed remorse after reading about scientific angst over the thriving market. “I’m very ashamed,” the buyer wrote on a blog. “I’m surely a part of the problem. This article is irresponsible and borderline yellow journalism from the NYT. They should be ashamed for running such a biased and uninformed story. Well over half of the article weighs on the disadvantages and more than infers a possible damage to science which is not there. It almost completely ignores the great good that's been accomplished through private collecting/hunting/curating or meteorites and the contributions that have been made by private collectors and hunters. It never mentions donations to institutions, how much of a sample is needed to study any meteorite, nor does it mention how many people it brings to the science. There is one very good quote from Anne which states: “The scientists do not have time to go hunt for their own meteorites, so somebody has to do it for them,” said Anne M. Black, president of the collectors association.
[meteorite-list] My Collection - First Glimpse (Part 2)
Good Evening Folks, I had a little time to kill this afternoon, so I uploaded Part 2 of my meteorite collection photos. Enjoy. All the Best, Ryan Select Individuals - Part 2 http://community.webshots.com/album/580007065IuvbYW?vhost=communityaction=refre shPhotosalbumID=580007065security=IuvbYW --- Forwarded Message --- Date: [Sat, 19 Mar 2011 22:18:26 -0400] From: fallingfus...@wi.rr.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] My Collection - First Glimpse Good Evening List, I was doing some Spring cleaning, and stumbled upon the invoice and mail order receipt from my first meteorite purchase. 36 gram - Gibeon Iron Meteorite Slice, Robert A. Haag - Meteorites, dated July 14, 1997. Has it already been nearly fourteen years???.. I said to myself. Like many collectors, I had purchased my first, never realizing that it would only be the very beginning if an everlasting obsession. Through the years, I have only shared a glimpse of my collection with a few people. I think it's about time for a grand unveiling, a sneak peek into the Falling Fusion Meteorite Collection. Please enjoy at your leisure. All the best, Ryan Pawelski Part One - Select Aesthetic Individuals. http://community.webshots.com/album/579929447dYuoxs?vhost=communitystart=0 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NYT: Barristers Schmitt say: Vanilla Porc Bellies are Cultural Heritage. smth hefty.
Yuhu Phil Of course Richard, all meteorites are illegal!! But chicken wings, daisies and potting soil too. Gosh I'm so sleepy, of course you would expect me to comment that article, wouldn't you? And such articles make me tired. You know what? That article is disastrous. It is labeled with NYT. Hence it will have the same aftermaths like the two BBC articles had, with the bullshit quotes from Smith. Because BBC NYT - they are telling the truth. That article will be quoted thousandfold and will be the base for hundreds of articles other journalists will write about meteorites. I don't know anything about Anglo-Saxon press. Here in Germany it's usual, that a newspaper or anyone else publishing that someone has acted illegal or blaming someone to be a criminal, investigates the legal situation BEFORE the article is published and not afterwards. Northafrica illicit, black market, Egypt... I doubt that the authors and redactors have checked the legal situation before. Because in the very most cases, there are no laws at all. Normal would be, addressed about these errors, to print a counterstatement. Very tired I am from the interviewed people. Always the same, for what motifs ever, first they lean out of the window - nobody forces them to do so. And afterwards they always turn to windy tergiversations, that they would have been misquoted. Always the same. As they hadn't gotten propounded the articles for rereading before the publication. In general that doesn't matter. It happens here and there, that people, who had built up their academic career in working on and publishing about such in their opinion no-go-stones or who curate collections of institutes and museums, which consist mainly of such private finds or who are in the domain of recovering new meteorites absolute dilettantes feel an urge to call for a witch-hunt or to act as well-poisoners. Such erratic minds are no global problem, they cause damage only locally isolated, to their universities, museums and sometimes to the tax-payers of their country. They are no problem, because the metoricists and scientists of the countries leading in meteoritics like USA, Canada, the European states, Russia and Japan simply don't want to have such a disaster like in Australia, where no meteorites are found anymore, where no exchange of material with other universities does happen, where they failed even to classify their 500 ordinary chondrites from expeditions from 20 years ago and where meteoritics suffered so badly, that in a few years they won't have any young meteorite scientists anymore. That is not the problem. Problem is, that the articles wear the brand BBC, New York Times plus whenever a layman has to publish about meteorites and it comes to the legal question as only source else he will find the unhealthy article of Schmitt Barrister in MAPS. That combined does an irreparable harm to meteorite science and meteorite collecting. Aggravating. Because always we all here on the list and the top-notch scientists have to suffer from the lapses of such individuals. Always we and not they have to repair it again over years, what these destroyed within a minute in their spotlight seeking. Always others then they have to take the can for. And now Richard, I will demonstrate you, that from now on, all vanilla taste and coffee will have to be banned from the cafeterias and the bureaus of the large meteorite institutes of the world. Schmitt Barristers recovered, that coffee and vanilla are protected moveable cultural heritage by the means of the UNESCO convention of 1970: Look what for a method they used in their paper, authoritative for all meteorite Taliban: Here you have the full paper: http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/2002MPSB..375S And here the abstract, found more often on Web. http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2001/pdf/5150.pdf And here you have the full-text of the Unesco convention: http://portal.unesco.org/en/ev.php-URL_ID=13039URL_DO=DO_TOPICURL_SECTION=201.html So Richard, follow me. No worries, it's short. What are Schmitt Barrister doing? They blank completely the formal legal regulations out, from when on and how only at all a meteorite can be protected by the convention, like it is given in the convention itself as mandatory for any item of cultural heritage: Ratification - National Law - national inventory - meteorites there. The convention is no law, it is a convention to harmonize the laws among the countries. Meteorites always can be only protected by national laws. The UN can't dictate laws to their member states. That is very simple, each lawyer knows that. - and btw. very practically, the 1970 convention deals with states, private persons are not concerned at all. (Other than later in the Unidroit convention). So far so bad already. Now. Schmitt and Barrister ignore completely the definition of cultural heritage given in the article 1 of the convention, but
[meteorite-list] BS In The NYT: Black Market Trinkets From Space
I sure agree with Adam, 150% He hit the nail on the head. Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com/ WOW!, This is very disturbing. I cannot listen to any more of this and say nothing. The New York Times has reduced itself, once again, to a lousy rag by demonstrating a bias towards bad news instead of the truth. It is this ratings over responsibility attitude that is putting us into a bad light. What used to be considered a respectful hobby/avocation a few years ago is going the way of the Treasure Hunter. Treasure hunters were considered the lowest life form on the planet due to all of the bad press in the 70s and 80s. A few got lucky and found valuable items. A few got their 15 minutes worth of fame and ruined it for everybody else by bragging, overvaluing objects they found and making promises that were never kept. A few bad apples broke the law and ruined it for everybody else who were legally searching at the time. The press reported only the bad situations and the next thing you know, half of the searchable property was off limits within a single decade. Amateur treasure hunting is barely recovering from all this decades later. Most treasure hunters have learned to keep quite while others have not learned this valuable lesson. Unfortunately, my predication that the avocations of meteorite hunting/collecting would go the same way as the treasure hunters a few years ago is now approaching reality. It is easy to forget that it used to be considered mutually beneficial for all involved to collaborate, the scientist, the dealer and the collector alike. It seems with all of the new interest, the press ignores this delicate collaboration and only seems to focus on the bad and untrue. I have always said, you make enough noise good or bad, you will attract attention, usually the wrong kind. It is disturbing that meteorite hunting is now considered only treasure hunting when it goes far beyond this. A few are ruining a perfectly respectably avocation by focusing only on the treasure hunting and money aspect of it. Labs are closing down to the public, voluntary associations are tied up with meteor wrongs, public land is being withdrawn from searching and idiots are coming out of the woodwork to get a bite at the golden meteorite apple that was promised on TV. These idiots think meteorites are lying around like Easter Eggs and that breaking the law to get them might be alright too. Some of these idiots have pronounced themselves meteoriticists and are garnering as much press as possible spewing forth B.S. They are making legitimate hunters, collectors and dealers all look bad. Sorry, needed to release some steam. I just hate to see a few ruin it for the many. Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NYT: Barristers Schmitt say: Vanilla PorcBellies are Cultural Heritage. smth hefty.
Martin, and all List: (since this does directly concern meteorites): The NYT began to lose credibility long, long ago, as their circulation numbers indicate; so their strategy has leaned toward sensationalism rather then substance. Misrepresentation seems to have no consequence to them; as if the management objective is to Write something that will sell papers and we'll watch the carnage as it unfolds, perhaps then write more stories on the carnage. This is nothing new, politically speaking. It hits a raw nerve when it hits our passion like a knife in the head. They don't care, really, they don't care. (One prominent orator commonly refers to this type of 'journalism' with the colorful term 'drive-by' with reference to the ugly drive-by-shootings of gangs in LA...'hit them and run') The NYT long ago lost credibility and is grapsing at straws; there is probably a deep-enough pocket to deflect legal actions; this was a prcatice learned by the tabloid crap-mags long ago in a business model that sold more sensationalisitc copy than credibility. Quite frankly, I'm not shocked that they have stooped this low (since it isn't low at all to them.) Ours is a relatively unknown phenomenon to the masses who still read crap like the NYT. So, perhaps, out-of-context sensationalism sailed right past the editors (who, as we remember, don't care a wit about journalistic propriety), yet maybe not. They probably got a slap on the ol' back from upper management for running a story that doesn't have point-politics written on their high foreheads. Now, once again, the Law of Unintended Consequence (+X) rears its head. May the NYTs readers somehow ever know the truth??? Maybe, maybe not...but we are dealing with many many sheep. Meteorites to most everyone (including all of us, I may be so bold to suggest) hold a mystique within, and as well as their other physical scientific sectrets, perhaps there is a new field of study emerging: How Human Masses Believe NYT Meteorite Crap. Martin, and all, - Original Message - From: Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 5:37 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] NYT: Barristers Schmitt say: Vanilla PorcBellies are Cultural Heritage. smth hefty. Yuhu Phil Of course Richard, all meteorites are illegal!! But chicken wings, daisies and potting soil too. Gosh I'm so sleepy, of course you would expect me to comment that article, wouldn't you? And such articles make me tired. You know what? That article is disastrous. It is labeled with NYT. Hence it will have the same aftermaths like the two BBC articles had, with the bullshit quotes from Smith. Because BBC NYT - they are telling the truth. That article will be quoted thousandfold and will be the base for hundreds of articles other journalists will write about meteorites. I don't know anything about Anglo-Saxon press. Here in Germany it's usual, that a newspaper or anyone else publishing that someone has acted illegal or blaming someone to be a criminal, investigates the legal situation BEFORE the article is published and not afterwards. Northafrica illicit, black market, Egypt... I doubt that the authors and redactors have checked the legal situation before. Because in the very most cases, there are no laws at all. Normal would be, addressed about these errors, to print a counterstatement. Very tired I am from the interviewed people. Always the same, for what motifs ever, first they lean out of the window - nobody forces them to do so. And afterwards they always turn to windy tergiversations, that they would have been misquoted. Always the same. As they hadn't gotten propounded the articles for rereading before the publication. In general that doesn't matter. It happens here and there, that people, who had built up their academic career in working on and publishing about such in their opinion no-go-stones or who curate collections of institutes and museums, which consist mainly of such private finds or who are in the domain of recovering new meteorites absolute dilettantes feel an urge to call for a witch-hunt or to act as well-poisoners. Such erratic minds are no global problem, they cause damage only locally isolated, to their universities, museums and sometimes to the tax-payers of their country. They are no problem, because the metoricists and scientists of the countries leading in meteoritics like USA, Canada, the European states, Russia and Japan simply don't want to have such a disaster like in Australia, where no meteorites are found anymore, where no exchange of material with other universities does happen, where they failed even to classify their 500 ordinary chondrites from expeditions from 20 years ago and where meteoritics suffered so badly, that in a few years they won't have any young meteorite scientists anymore. That is not the problem. Problem
Re: [meteorite-list] BS In The NYT: Black Market Trinkets From Space
Hi Carl, we can discuss until a meteorite will slay us. In the end all what counts is only, what the laws say respectively what the court says. So far I couldn't see anyone, neither any of the scientists involved in Gebel Kamil, nor Dr.Harvey, nor Dr.Planche, nor Dr.DiMartino, nor any Egyptian citizen, who was able to give us the Egyptian law. Everthing else is hypothetically. Dull clamour. The colour of the market is white. What shall these please be for a black market, where the goods are traded for everyone visibly and easily accessible? What shall this be for a black market, where each new good must be first officially verified by an institute and is later - and that for all new goods of the world - centrally registered with all data including often enough the holder of the good with his postal address - and published for everyone accessible for free? Those strange people always blathering about black market, that they even are not able to type the simple tag: meteorite meteorite name sale into any search engine or to use the Meteoritical database, is the best evidence for that they have absolutely no clues at all about that, what they are talking. In which collecting field else do you have such a transparency And the white doesn't get any stains, if an uninformed outsider claims, that it would be illegal, but can't deliver any stalwart law. Egypt - haven't you seen what happened almost 10 years with Oman? Partially rude and spiteful impeaches and propaganda in the media, on the list here, in web and in almost every second scientific publication. And that was coming solely and always only from the side of the scientists and so called officials. So much, until all really thought, that the Oman stuff would be illegal. Now after 10 years we have a decision of a court in Oman, which said, if it was correctly reported: All legal. And if not perfectly legal, after 90 days it is. And unfortunately, that ugly climate, that vitriol is now permanently brought into meteoritics by just such people, like we have it now seen in the NYT article. So it's IMHO really somewhat mistaken to blame e.g. a TV-series for that. The poison and in the end the catastrophe always comes from those few lonely ones from the science side, whose days seems to be too long for them. And that we hadn't in the 30s 40s 50s 60s 70s... Perhaps a little bit in the 80s and 90s. Hihi Carl, some of these yellers are still afraid of a phantom called Haag!! And for me it is still a riddle. Those who always complain, those who insult us and their colleagues, those who cry for laws, none of them was ever giving a reason, none of them was able to tell, what a ban of all private involvement would have for a concrete advantage for them! These people have no ideas, no vision, no insight - they have only one aim: All must be ours. And get so blind over it, that they can't foresee, that they will get so less than ever down to nothing! And meanwhile, I think, none of us has any idea anymore, how one could help these people. Here definitely the problem is, we as private enthusiasts, as non-scientists are of course all suspect. I fear, only their colleagues, the scientists could bring them perhaps back to reason. That is extremely worrying and dissatisfying. Also not such a fine feeling, to know, that one is still young enough, to witness the death of meteoritics. And meteoritics will die silently. Inwardly after short illness. R.I.P. Ernst Florens - we all will forget you. Martin PS: Hi Richard M. - huh NYT has an cooperation with my home newspaper. Monday morning, it brings always a selection of NYT articles in English. But only the best ones, so I hope that next Monday when I'm drinking my morning coffee, I don't have to read here, that a Mr.Harvey, whom I don't know at all, called me a criminal. Cause then I'll write to NYT the most grave Bavarian insult here: That his mother is a bad cook. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Tunguska Meteorites - Real or Not?
Hello listees, I attended a fundraising event and there was a small, iron meteorite specimen that had been made into a pendant. The person who donated this item announced that it was a meteorite specimen that was recovered from the Tunguska event. I looked at the item, and it looked VERY much like Sikhote-Alin. It was hard to tell if it was a small individual, or shrapnel that had been tumbled to smooth it out. She was very insulted when I suggested this was likely a piece of Sikhote-Alin. She is Russian, and she purchased it from a Russian gentleman. That was good enough for her. Am I wrong? Have there been iron meteorites resembling Sikhote-Alin collected from Tunguska? Or, was she and/or her friend sold a bill of goods? Thanks, Ed __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Tunguska Meteorites - Real or Not?
was she... sold a bill of goods? A bill of something, perhaps not goods. No iron meteorites from Tunguska. No stone meteorites from Tunguska. No meteorites of any kind from Tunguska. Sterling K. Webb - Original Message - From: Ed Deckert edeck...@triad.rr.com To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 9:21 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Tunguska Meteorites - Real or Not? Hello listees, I attended a fundraising event and there was a small, iron meteorite specimen that had been made into a pendant. The person who donated this item announced that it was a meteorite specimen that was recovered from the Tunguska event. I looked at the item, and it looked VERY much like Sikhote-Alin. It was hard to tell if it was a small individual, or shrapnel that had been tumbled to smooth it out. She was very insulted when I suggested this was likely a piece of Sikhote-Alin. She is Russian, and she purchased it from a Russian gentleman. That was good enough for her. Am I wrong? Have there been iron meteorites resembling Sikhote-Alin collected from Tunguska? Or, was she and/or her friend sold a bill of goods? Thanks, Ed __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
