Re: [meteorite-list] Important Message From the IMCA Board
Hi Jeff and all, I'm sure that everyone is thinking what I am thinking, and that is, if this individual was caught on these items, how many other items were not caught up to now? If I had dealt with this individual, I'd be asking if my other specimens were authentic. Some items are easy to identfy while others are not. As I have pointed out in the past, some people continue to do business with some of the known frauds. While not every piece may be mis-represented, it is hard to tell and more and more bad specimens are going to be floating in collections. If this becomes an epidemic, collecting meteorites may become a think of the past. --AL Mitterling Mitterling Meteorites Quoting Jeff Kuyken i...@meteorites.com.au: Hi everyone, Last weekend the IMCA Board received an official complaint in regards to an IMCA member who sold three meteorite samples to two different IMCA members that were not what they were purported to be. This complaint included classification test results on these reported pieces that were confirmed by the Board with the highly reputable meteorite scientist who completed the testing. The first sample tested was a small 4.06g stone sold as Ash Creek that came back as an equilibrated H-Chondrite and definitely not Ash Creek. The second sample was a ~1.6g fragment sold as Zunhua. This specimen also returned results of an equilibrated H-Chondrite which do not match the current studies on the actual Zunhua meteorite. While the following cannot be considered conclusive, the classifying scientist of the fragment mentioned that the olivine and orthopyroxene compositions for the alleged Zunhua stone (as well as its physical appearance) are consistent with available information about stones from the Tamdakht (Morocco) fall. The third sample was an iron slice sold as Deport that was clearly too coarse to be that. To basically sum up, these three meteorites were sold as meteorites they were actually not. After receiving the complaint, we did some further investigation and approached the seller. We were not satisfied with his answer at all. On requesting a more substantial answer and provenance of the sold samples, the member resigned before we even had a chance to remove them. (The process for removal is in the ByLaws.) However at the same time, this member assured me that they would make things right with the buyers and provide the documentation we requested. I have also been helping another non-member who made us aware of his problems this week with the same seller. I know his refund request was accepted by PayPal. I think it is important that all collectors know who this person is that sold the misrepresented meteorites as they are a reasonably active seller on eBay. If you have purchased any of the above meteorites from this seller the potential is there for you to be affected too. The seller in question is: John (Bryan) Scarborough - #6135 eBay User ID: quietstorm2476 I find it extremely disappointing as a Board member but even more so as a fellow member, that on trying to further communicate with this person a couple of days ago, I found their yahoo email account had been deleted. - I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. This user doesn't have a yahoo.com account. The Board will of course still continue to attempt further communication with this individual and assist those affected buyers in any way we are able. On a further note, it's important for us all to remember that it is our responsibility as collectors and temporary custodians of these extraterrestrial treasures to ensure proper curation and provenance history. This is ALL part of authenticity and whether mistakes are deliberate or happen by accident... well both have the exact same end result of misrepresented meteorites. There are people out there who watch very carefully and as one IMCA member put it very well this week, the meteorite community is very small and at some point all cheats are eventually caught. While this has been a disappointing episode, I am not disillusioned. This is one member. There are nearly 400 now from around the world who do believe in the ideals of the IMCA. To put it in perspective, there are thousands and thousands of transactions performed with IMCA members every year that all go without a problem. This is a learning experience for us all and I'm sure in the long-term we can only grow from it. Remember that IMCA Board members are always available for any questions or concerns you may have so please always feel free to approach us. Sincerely, Jeff Kuyken Meteorites Australia www.meteorites.com.au Vice President - I.M.C.A. Inc. www.imca.cc __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list
[meteorite-list] Begaa
Hello, Wondering if anyone can fill in some blanks about Begaa. It was popularly bought and sold several years ago (and with good reason, gorgeous LL3! Unofficially, anyways). But I can't find any reference in the Meteoritical Bulletin. Not even as a synonym, so I'm thinking it must not be just a name-change deal, NWA-, ect. Eric Twelker's Meteorite Market online site offers a tantalizing tidbit, It was reportedly bypassed by the scientific community because of disputes with the finders. It was found in 1999, so there has surely been more than enough time for this to be officially recognized, if it was ever going to be. And a quick search of the met-list archives showed a number of sale-postings, but not the story I'm looking for, unless I missed something. Same with a google search. Can any listers can offer any insights as far as the untold story on this beauty? Juicy gossip preferred. :) DG __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] More free posters
Hello Met-friends, the race is not yet over. There are still 26 posters free available. Look at: http://www.flickr.com/photos/64183034@N03/sets/72157626863843447/ and write a mail to me m42proto...@t-online.de with the number of pic you want. Some pictures couldn't be delivered becauce of size failure of your server. Uwe m42protosun E-Mail für alle! Kostenlos Wunschadresse @t-online.de sichern. http://www.t-online.de/gratis-email __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 2011-06-15 - Georgia Fireabll All Sky Video
Hey Folks, Just a few corrections to this original post. 1) It was Steve Farmer not Fisher who captured the video 2) It seems the end of the event was not captured by the camera, so it may have been a little longer. 3) As pointed out by Esko on meteorobs, the video has been slowed down 2x and the original video is about 8 seconds and not 16. This makes a big difference with satellite re-entry or natural fireball theories. Thanks, Mike On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 10:39 PM, Mike Hankey mike.han...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, A nice video of the recent Georgia Fireball was captured by Steve Fisher of Ty Ty Georgia. You can view this video and more information here: http://www.amsmeteors.org/2011/06/georgia-fireball-june-15th-2011/ Its a very nice video capturing the entire event. The fireball is slow and long. I'm interested to hear what people think about this. Thanks, Mike __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Begaa
I know nothing of any juicy details but I got my 17.5 gram piece from Bruno and Carine at the Earths memory www.meteorite.fr and they still have some pieces for sale..http://www.meteorite.fr/en/forsale/begaa. htm It is a lovely LL3 ,here is a link to my piece http://is.gd/us6zjY Jim Brady __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Begaa
Begaa = NWA 4910 ...a long story for a fine meteorite to get an official name... (Details are to be found elsewhere, regarding juicy gossip, and not here, sorry :-)) Best, Alex Berlin/Germany Original-Nachricht Datum: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 00:34:58 -1000 Von: Don Giovanni grig...@operamail.com An: meteorite list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: [meteorite-list] Begaa Hello, Wondering if anyone can fill in some blanks about Begaa. It was popularly bought and sold several years ago (and with good reason, gorgeous LL3! Unofficially, anyways). But I can't find any reference in the Meteoritical Bulletin. Not even as a synonym, so I'm thinking it must not be just a name-change deal, NWA-, ect. Eric Twelker's Meteorite Market online site offers a tantalizing tidbit, It was reportedly bypassed by the scientific community because of disputes with the finders. It was found in 1999, so there has surely been more than enough time for this to be officially recognized, if it was ever going to be. And a quick search of the met-list archives showed a number of sale-postings, but not the story I'm looking for, unless I missed something. Same with a google search. Can any listers can offer any insights as far as the untold story on this beauty? Juicy gossip preferred. :) DG __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Important Message From the IMCA Board
Hello, Good work. Best Wishes Michael Cottingham On Jun 18, 2011, at 8:19 PM, Jeff Kuyken wrote: Hi everyone, Last weekend the IMCA Board received an official complaint in regards to an IMCA member who sold three meteorite samples to two different IMCA members that were not what they were purported to be. This complaint included classification test results on these reported pieces that were confirmed by the Board with the highly reputable meteorite scientist who completed the testing. The first sample tested was a small 4.06g stone sold as Ash Creek that came back as an equilibrated H-Chondrite and definitely not Ash Creek. The second sample was a ~1.6g fragment sold as Zunhua. This specimen also returned results of an equilibrated H-Chondrite which do not match the current studies on the actual Zunhua meteorite. While the following cannot be considered conclusive, the classifying scientist of the fragment mentioned that the olivine and orthopyroxene compositions for the alleged Zunhua stone (as well as its physical appearance) are consistent with available information about stones from the Tamdakht (Morocco) fall. The third sample was an iron slice sold as Deport that was clearly too coarse to be that. To basically sum up, these three meteorites were sold as meteorites they were actually not. After receiving the complaint, we did some further investigation and approached the seller. We were not satisfied with his answer at all. On requesting a more substantial answer and provenance of the sold samples, the member resigned before we even had a chance to remove them. (The process for removal is in the ByLaws.) However at the same time, this member assured me that they would make things right with the buyers and provide the documentation we requested. I have also been helping another non-member who made us aware of his problems this week with the same seller. I know his refund request was accepted by PayPal. I think it is important that all collectors know who this person is that sold the misrepresented meteorites as they are a reasonably active seller on eBay. If you have purchased any of the above meteorites from this seller the potential is there for you to be affected too. The seller in question is: John (Bryan) Scarborough - #6135 eBay User ID: quietstorm2476 I find it extremely disappointing as a Board member but even more so as a fellow member, that on trying to further communicate with this person a couple of days ago, I found their yahoo email account had been deleted. - I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. This user doesn't have a yahoo.com account. The Board will of course still continue to attempt further communication with this individual and assist those affected buyers in any way we are able. On a further note, it's important for us all to remember that it is our responsibility as collectors and temporary custodians of these extraterrestrial treasures to ensure proper curation and provenance history. This is ALL part of authenticity and whether mistakes are deliberate or happen by accident... well both have the exact same end result of misrepresented meteorites. There are people out there who watch very carefully and as one IMCA member put it very well this week, the meteorite community is very small and at some point all cheats are eventually caught. While this has been a disappointing episode, I am not disillusioned. This is one member. There are nearly 400 now from around the world who do believe in the ideals of the IMCA. To put it in perspective, there are thousands and thousands of transactions performed with IMCA members every year that all go without a problem. This is a learning experience for us all and I'm sure in the long-term we can only grow from it. Remember that IMCA Board members are always available for any questions or concerns you may have so please always feel free to approach us. Sincerely, Jeff Kuyken Meteorites Australia www.meteorites.com.au Vice President - I.M.C.A. Inc. www.imca.cc __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorwrong
Hello List, Regarding the May 8, 2010 RFSPOD Some weeks ago I recieved confirmation that the little iron 'meteorite' with the hole through the center is in fact pure iron, a man made relic. All of you out there that knew it was too good to be true were spot on! (Those that wanted to buy it, aren't you glad I didn't sell it to you!) I hoped it was authentic but it was not to be. No worries though, many great finds await the patient hunter.. Happy Hunting! Sincerely, Larry Atkins IMCA # 1941 Ebay alienrockfarm __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mercury data
Of course it's still early days on understanding the Mercury data coming back from Messenger, but I think there are a few simple things that can be said about the two geochemical graphs that were part of the press release. The major element graph of Al/Si versus Mg/Si clearly shows that the measured Mercurian surface is similar to basaltic and mantle rocks from the Earth. They plot along the Earth array and look to be a bit more olivine-rich than mid-ocean ridge basalts, but not as olivinerich as mantle peridotites, perhaps more like Archean Earth komatiites. The measured Mercurian surface is NOT delpleted in aluminum, like Martian basalts or Angrites. Also, Messenger is clearly not measuring rocks like the lunar anorthositic highlands. The major element that is still missing from this puzzle is iron. The data do not say anything about the FeO content of the Mercurian surface -- this is a pretty big deal, and until that is known it will difficult to know exactly what we are looking at -- let alone if there is a match for any known meteorite type. The potassium/thorium plot shows that Mercury is a lot like the other terrestrial planets in terms of volatile element content. It seems to be closest to the K/Th of Mars which is quite surprising, since Mars is thought to be the most volatile rich of the rocky planets. This runs counter to the idea that the inner solar system is chemically zoned with volatile elements concentrated out at Mars and lower in towards the Sun. But who knows? Maybe Mercury formed farther from the Sun and migrated inwards. There was a brief mention of substantial amounts of sulfur, but no data in the multimedia press release, so it would be interesting to know what they mean by substantial amounts. Also, why do they think it is in the form of sulfide and not sulfate? See how important these missions of planetary exploration are and how fragmentary our understanding is? Just my opinion Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://epswww.unm.edu/iom/pers/agee.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] DaG 402 and DaG 477 paired???
Hello everybody, does anybody know if DaG 402 is paired with DaG 477 i found lots of pictures online of DaG 477 but i cant seem to find any any of DaG 402.. i own some DaG 477 and they look just like the pictures i see online etc ive had them for a while.. I also have some DaG 402.. i am uploading stuff for sale on my website and when i checked my DaG 402 and my DaG 477 they look practically the same.. same weathering.. same matrix, same percentage of Iron flecks same distribution of chondrules etc... if i didn't know any better i would think they are the same meteorite but i cant seem to find much information on DaG 402 online and the only real difference is the outer crusts with the level of weathering as DaG 477 seems a bit more weathered but still the insides are almost identical...maybe im having trouble finding pictures of DaG 402 because its not as popular as DaG 477 who knows but if anybody owns some can you send me a picture or maybe point me to where i can see a picture online online of DaG 402 that would be great really. I have a feeling tleshey are paired but there is no real evidence of this online anywere and i dont want to be making any wild assumptions until i can find out for sure from somebody.. Daniel Furlan collector and dealer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] DaG 402 and DaG 477 paired???
G'Day Daniel http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/meteorite.aspx?id=5950 Cheers John Cabassi Imca2125 -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Dan Furlan Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 12:19 AM To: met-list Subject: [meteorite-list] DaG 402 and DaG 477 paired??? Hello everybody, does anybody know if DaG 402 is paired with DaG 477 i found lots of pictures online of DaG 477 but i cant seem to find any any of DaG 402.. i own some DaG 477 and they look just like the pictures i see online etc ive had them for a while.. I also have some DaG 402.. i am uploading stuff for sale on my website and when i checked my DaG 402 and my DaG 477 they look practically the same.. same weathering.. same matrix, same percentage of Iron flecks same distribution of chondrules etc... if i didn't know any better i would think they are the same meteorite but i cant seem to find much information on DaG 402 online and the only real difference is the outer crusts with the level of weathering as DaG 477 seems a bit more weathered but still the insides are almost identical...maybe im having trouble finding pictures of DaG 402 because its not as popular as DaG 477 who knows but if anybody owns some can you send me a picture or maybe point me to where i can see a picture online online of DaG 402 that would be great really. I have a feeling tleshey are paired but there is no real evidence of this online anywere and i dont want to be making any wild assumptions until i can find out for sure from somebody.. Daniel Furlan collector and dealer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ad: HUGE polished meteorite sphere for sale, also, Big Mundrabilla, Taza, Sikhote-alin slice, Toufassour, Imilac, Seymchan Slice, Large Desrt Glass, Etched Mundrabilla, and much more!
Hi all on the meteorite list, I just want to say a little off-topic, thank you for all the people that came to my birthday party last night, It was the best birthday party ever, and I have the best friends in the entire world! There were many meteorite people there, and it was at a virtual museum for meteorites as well! As many of you may know, we adopted a puppy that was found in the parking lot of a convenient store a month ago, and soon thereafter said puppy came down with Parvo, which is terrible, and expensive to treat. So, we have listed on Ebay some of the best of the best of our stuff for sale. We literally picked out the biggest and best of every meteorite in our possession and listed them for sale this week to raise money. They are all ending tonight, Sunday, and I just wanted to let you guys know b/c some of the bids are still pretty low, and you could probably get yourself a good deal actually! First, and probably most impressive is the largest meteorite sphere I have ever owned, and the most impressive one too, An NWA 869, perfectly polished and expertly carved by a lovely South African man who I love dearly. It weighs almost 3 ounces, and it just gorgeous, it can be seen here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=260798851164ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT The nicest, largest oriented Taza in my collection, which can be seen here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=250835637397ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT An Almost 70 gram super great color and shaped Mundrabilla can be bid on here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=250835658972ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT A really great shaped Imilac with nice desert patina here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=250835636664ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT A really great slice of Seymchan which is gorgeous and mirror polished and so far still really cheap in price here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=260798827642ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT A really gorgeous Etched mundrabilla with really awesome shape can be seen here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=250835640617ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT A gorgeous shaped and mirror polished slice of Sikhote-alin here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=260787057746ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT The biggest piece of Libyan Desert Glass (175 carats) that I had in my possession here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=250835647673ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT Not so big, but great on the rare side and super expensive mesosiderite meteorite that is expertly cut and polished End Cut Toufassour: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=260798830972ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT And a super nice REALLY oriented Sikhote-alin that is just shocking cool looking here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=250835636930ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT And a nice moldavite that would make a great pendant here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=250835654669ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT And another nice meteorite that may look good in a pendant of Gold Basin here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=260798837989ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT There are other things like placer gold nuggets and some really cool trilobites and ammonites, and everything can be seen here: http://shop.ebay.com/callistodesigns/m.html?_trksid=p4340.l2562 So, I hope you all can find something that you may want to have in your home, and you can help a girl out get some vet bills paid, and you can have a new, nice, awesome meteorite added to your collection at the same time! Since I usually sell thumbnail specimens and micro-mounts, as well as meteorites for jewelry mainly, these are all the largest pieces in my collection, which means that most of these are too big to make into jewelry and too big for thumbnail specimens, but I realize that 'big' or 'large' can be a relative term, since some of you have only several pound size specimens. Anyway, just saying... Also, once again, thank you all for coming to my birthday party, it was a meteorite-gathering good ole time and I had such a blast! __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ad: Ebay auctions ending this hour
Hi List members I have some auctions ending this hour. Have a look: http://shop.ebay.com/refamat/m.html?_dmd=1_ipg=50_sop=12_rdc=1 Thanks Mark Ferguson IMCA#4691 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Classifying iron meteorites
What is the 'standard' instrument used for classifying iron meteorites by trace element composition and who is doing this kind of work today? Thanks so much, -Robert Beauford __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Classifying iron meteorites
The main classifier of irons is John Wasson at UCLA who uses neutron activation analysis to get the trace element compositions. Quoting Robert Beauford robertbeauf...@rocketmail.com: What is the 'standard' instrument used for classifying iron meteorites by trace element composition and who is doing this kind of work today? Thanks so much, -Robert Beauford __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] OT: NASA Pictures of Biggest Arizona Wildfire Ever
Sat pics of big AZ blaze: http://hken.ibtimes.com/articles/165284/20110618/update-6-nasa-releases-satellite-images-of-arizona-wallow-fire-pictures.htm - Phil Whitmer __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mercury data
Thanks, Carl. That's was what I was hoping for. There are two Theories of Mercury --- the old one, that Mercury formed from inner disk materials, all iron and refractories, and the new one, that Mercury suffered a Giant Impact' which added its iron to the Mercurian core but blasted Mercury's crust off to be lost. Sometimes the Giant Impact Theory is interpreted as a much-larger Mercury that lost much of its crust to a series of Pretty Dam Big Impacts that contributed no iron but blasted Mercury's crust off to be lost just the same. The old All Iron And Refractories theory seems, at first glance, to be dead, but wait! there's still a heart beat. The Crust is not The Planet. If Mercury has been pasted through the ages by errant asteroids and comets from Out-System that have been tossed down into high eccentricity orbits, that crust of volatiles could be the accretion of 4 billion years of Jupiter's trash toss-out. There's a lot wrong with this idea. It's hard to deliver material to Mercury without splashing it right off into the grip of the Sun's powerful gravity, and it would take a lot of material to pave a planet miles deep. Perhaps the anomalous crust was delivered by the Late Bombardment? Sulfur, visible as yellow swirls, streaks and patches surrounding the pits that burped it, got up and screamed Volatiles! even before those scans were released. It's just like Io, but a lot hotter. It can't accumulate like it does on Io Still, if Mercury is still boiling out sulfur after billions and billions of years, it must have started with a LOT of volatiles. Recent images of Mercury can be found at: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/messenger/multimedia/mercury_images_coll_archive_1.html Maybe Mercury formed farther from the Sun and migrated inwards... It's a whole new solar system. Jumpin' Jupiter wandering back and forth . Now, we have Migrating Mercury. The problem is migrated from where? Where do huge-iron-cored terrestrial planets with scads of volatiles form? It's really hard to think of any spot that provides vast amounts of both. Sterling K. Webb --- - Original Message - From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 11:16 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Mercury data Of course it's still early days on understanding the Mercury data coming back from Messenger, but I think there are a few simple things that can be said about the two geochemical graphs that were part of the press release. The major element graph of Al/Si versus Mg/Si clearly shows that the measured Mercurian surface is similar to basaltic and mantle rocks from the Earth. They plot along the Earth array and look to be a bit more olivine-rich than mid-ocean ridge basalts, but not as olivinerich as mantle peridotites, perhaps more like Archean Earth komatiites. The measured Mercurian surface is NOT delpleted in aluminum, like Martian basalts or Angrites. Also, Messenger is clearly not measuring rocks like the lunar anorthositic highlands. The major element that is still missing from this puzzle is iron. The data do not say anything about the FeO content of the Mercurian surface -- this is a pretty big deal, and until that is known it will difficult to know exactly what we are looking at -- let alone if there is a match for any known meteorite type. The potassium/thorium plot shows that Mercury is a lot like the other terrestrial planets in terms of volatile element content. It seems to be closest to the K/Th of Mars which is quite surprising, since Mars is thought to be the most volatile rich of the rocky planets. This runs counter to the idea that the inner solar system is chemically zoned with volatile elements concentrated out at Mars and lower in towards the Sun. But who knows? Maybe Mercury formed farther from the Sun and migrated inwards. There was a brief mention of substantial amounts of sulfur, but no data in the multimedia press release, so it would be interesting to know what they mean by substantial amounts. Also, why do they think it is in the form of sulfide and not sulfate? See how important these missions of planetary exploration are and how fragmentary our understanding is? Just my opinion Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://epswww.unm.edu/iom/pers/agee.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list
[meteorite-list] Looking After and Preserving NASA's Extraterrestrial Samples
http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/CosmoSparks/June11/NASAsamples.html Looking After and Preserving NASA's Extraterrestrial Samples Written by Linda M. V. Martel, Hawai'i0 Institute of Geophysics and Planetology, for PSRD Planetary Science Research Discoveries Cosmos Sparks Materials from space have a superb home on Earth at the Johnson Space Center (JSC) in Houston, Texas. The curators and staff in the Astromaterials Acquisition and Curation Office at JSC have the enormous and enviable responsibility for protecting, preserving, and distributing extraterrestrial samples. You might be surprised at the variety of materials and where they've come from: Comet particles; cosmic dust; meteorites from asteroids, the Moon, and Mars; rocks and soils from the Moon; and samples of the solar wind. To find out more, take a look at the wonderful, comprehensive review by Carlton Allen (Astromaterials Curator), Judith Allton (Genesis Sample Curator), Gary Lofgren (Lunar Sample Curator), Kevin Righter (Antarctic Meteorite Curator), and Michael Zolensky (Cosmic Dust and Stardust Sample Curator) published recently in Chemie der Erde, the international journal for geochemistry-related topics. The curators cover, in detail, the six collections of extraterrestrial samples in their care: * Lunar rocks and soils collected by the Apollo astronauts * Meteorites collected on NSF-funded expeditions to Antarctica; these are samples from asteroids, the Moon, and Mars * Cosmic dust collected by high altitude NASA aircraft * Solar wind atoms collected by the Genesis spacecraft * Comet particles collected by the Stardust spacecraft * Interstellar dust particles collected by the Stardust spacecraft The report provides details of how the samples are collected, cataloged, and stored, as well as how the laboratories and clean rooms operate. Samples are allocated under strict guidelines to qualified researchers and investigators worldwide. Upcoming acquisitions include samples from asteroid Itokawa collected by the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency's Hayabusa spacecraft and returned to Earth in June 2010. In 2016, NASA plans to launch the OSIRIS-REx mission that will collect at least 60 grams of a near-Earth asteroid for return to Earth in 2023. The curators are also looking farther into the future, when conceivable sample-return missions may include atmospheric gases, ices or other temperature-sensitive minerals, and organic compounds in addition to rock, soil, and dust samples. Big advances in analysis techniques and instrumentation, and new generations of scientists, are making new discoveries in the extraterrestrial samples, even using the lunar rocks returned by Apollo some 40 years ago to help prove the Moon is not bone dry. The curators acknowledge in their paper, We stand on the shoulders of giants--the far-sighted scientists who realized, during Apollo, the importance of extraterrestrial samples to the advance of scientific understanding, and who created the model for all future curation. See: Allen, C., Allton, J., Lofgren, G., Righter, K., and Zolensky, M. (2011) Curating NASA's Extraterrestrial Samples--Past, Present, and Future http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S000928191131. /Chemie der Erde-Geochemistry,/ vol. 71(1), p. 1-20, doi: 10.1016/j.chemer.2010.12.003. Also see JSC Astromaterials Acquisition and Curation Office http://curator.jsc.nasa.gov/index.cfm and *PSRD* article Celebrated Moon Rocks ../../Dec09/Apollo-lunar-samples.html. Written by Linda M. V. Martel, Hawaiâi Institute of Geophysics and Planetology, for PSRD ../../index.html. home ../../index.html [ About PSRD ../../PSRDabout.html | Archive ../../Archive/Contents.html | CosmoSparks ../index.html | Search ../../PSRDsearch.html | Subscribe ../../PSRDsubscribe.html ] [ Glossary ../../PSRDglossary.html | General Resources ../../PSRDotherResources.html | Comments ../../PSRDcomments.html | Top of page #Top ] + Share http://www.addthis.com/bookmark.php June 2011 http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu p...@higp.hawaii.edu mailto: p...@higp.hawaii.edu __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mercury data
Mercury or not, whatever the Angrite parent body is/was is sure to be interesting once it is figured out. The oxygen isotope analysis sure points to a large, differentiated parent body. It makes me wonder about the moons in the Jovian system. Ganymede, for example, is larger than Mercury (currently) is; I wonder if we have any Ganymeteorites in our collections waiting to be discovered? Food for thought, -Michael in so. Cal. On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 3:59 PM, Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Thanks, Carl. That's was what I was hoping for. There are two Theories of Mercury --- the old one, that Mercury formed from inner disk materials, all iron and refractories, and the new one, that Mercury suffered a Giant Impact' which added its iron to the Mercurian core but blasted Mercury's crust off to be lost. Sometimes the Giant Impact Theory is interpreted as a much-larger Mercury that lost much of its crust to a series of Pretty Dam Big Impacts that contributed no iron but blasted Mercury's crust off to be lost just the same. The old All Iron And Refractories theory seems, at first glance, to be dead, but wait! there's still a heart beat. The Crust is not The Planet. If Mercury has been pasted through the ages by errant asteroids and comets from Out-System that have been tossed down into high eccentricity orbits, that crust of volatiles could be the accretion of 4 billion years of Jupiter's trash toss-out. There's a lot wrong with this idea. It's hard to deliver material to Mercury without splashing it right off into the grip of the Sun's powerful gravity, and it would take a lot of material to pave a planet miles deep. Perhaps the anomalous crust was delivered by the Late Bombardment? Sulfur, visible as yellow swirls, streaks and patches surrounding the pits that burped it, got up and screamed Volatiles! even before those scans were released. It's just like Io, but a lot hotter. It can't accumulate like it does on Io Still, if Mercury is still boiling out sulfur after billions and billions of years, it must have started with a LOT of volatiles. Recent images of Mercury can be found at: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/messenger/multimedia/mercury_images_coll_archive_1.html Maybe Mercury formed farther from the Sun and migrated inwards... It's a whole new solar system. Jumpin' Jupiter wandering back and forth . Now, we have Migrating Mercury. The problem is migrated from where? Where do huge-iron-cored terrestrial planets with scads of volatiles form? It's really hard to think of any spot that provides vast amounts of both. Sterling K. Webb --- - Original Message - From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 11:16 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Mercury data Of course it's still early days on understanding the Mercury data coming back from Messenger, but I think there are a few simple things that can be said about the two geochemical graphs that were part of the press release. The major element graph of Al/Si versus Mg/Si clearly shows that the measured Mercurian surface is similar to basaltic and mantle rocks from the Earth. They plot along the Earth array and look to be a bit more olivine-rich than mid-ocean ridge basalts, but not as olivinerich as mantle peridotites, perhaps more like Archean Earth komatiites. The measured Mercurian surface is NOT delpleted in aluminum, like Martian basalts or Angrites. Also, Messenger is clearly not measuring rocks like the lunar anorthositic highlands. The major element that is still missing from this puzzle is iron. The data do not say anything about the FeO content of the Mercurian surface -- this is a pretty big deal, and until that is known it will difficult to know exactly what we are looking at -- let alone if there is a match for any known meteorite type. The potassium/thorium plot shows that Mercury is a lot like the other terrestrial planets in terms of volatile element content. It seems to be closest to the K/Th of Mars which is quite surprising, since Mars is thought to be the most volatile rich of the rocky planets. This runs counter to the idea that the inner solar system is chemically zoned with volatile elements concentrated out at Mars and lower in towards the Sun. But who knows? Maybe Mercury formed farther from the Sun and migrated inwards. There was a brief mention of substantial amounts of sulfur, but no data in the multimedia press release, so it would be interesting to know what they mean by substantial amounts. Also, why do they think it is in the form of sulfide and not sulfate? See how important these missions of planetary exploration are and how fragmentary our understanding is? Just my opinion Carl Agee -- Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary
[meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2011
http://www.rocksfromspace.org/ensisheim2011.html Regards, Michael Johnson http://www.rocksfromspace.org __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2011
G'Day Michael and List It's funny I was researching any information on Ensisheim today and you let fly with this one. Great work. And Dave, you sure get around. Thanks for the update Michael, looking forward to more. Cheers John Cabassi IMCA # 2125 -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Michael Johnson Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 7:02 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim 2011 http://www.rocksfromspace.org/ensisheim2011.html Regards, Michael Johnson http://www.rocksfromspace.org __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mercury data
Hi, Sterling and All, Here's an interesting little article I came across in Nature: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v473/n7347/full/nature10092.html http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v473/n7347/full/nature10092.html Unbound or distant planetary mass population detected by gravitational microlensing I know they've suspected wandering stars in the past, but now planets! If there's these big ones, what's to say there aren't smaller ones? Best, Pete From: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net To: a...@unm.edu; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 17:59:52 -0500 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mercury data Thanks, Carl. That's was what I was hoping for. There are two Theories of Mercury --- the old one, that Mercury formed from inner disk materials, all iron and refractories, and the new one, that Mercury suffered a Giant Impact' which added its iron to the Mercurian core but blasted Mercury's crust off to be lost. Sometimes the Giant Impact Theory is interpreted as a much-larger Mercury that lost much of its crust to a series of Pretty Dam Big Impacts that contributed no iron but blasted Mercury's crust off to be lost just the same. The old All Iron And Refractories theory seems, at first glance, to be dead, but wait! there's still a heart beat. The Crust is not The Planet. If Mercury has been pasted through the ages by errant asteroids and comets from Out-System that have been tossed down into high eccentricity orbits, that crust of volatiles could be the accretion of 4 billion years of Jupiter's trash toss-out. There's a lot wrong with this idea. It's hard to deliver material to Mercury without splashing it right off into the grip of the Sun's powerful gravity, and it would take a lot of material to pave a planet miles deep. Perhaps the anomalous crust was delivered by the Late Bombardment? Sulfur, visible as yellow swirls, streaks and patches surrounding the pits that burped it, got up and screamed Volatiles! even before those scans were released. It's just like Io, but a lot hotter. It can't accumulate like it does on Io Still, if Mercury is still boiling out sulfur after billions and billions of years, it must have started with a LOT of volatiles. Recent images of Mercury can be found at: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/messenger/multimedia/mercury_images_coll_archive_1.html Maybe Mercury formed farther from the Sun and migrated inwards... It's a whole new solar system. Jumpin' Jupiter wandering back and forth . Now, we have Migrating Mercury. The problem is migrated from where? Where do huge-iron-cored terrestrial planets with scads of volatiles form? It's really hard to think of any spot that provides vast amounts of both. Sterling K. Webb --- - Original Message - From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 11:16 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Mercury data Of course it's still early days on understanding the Mercury data coming back from Messenger, but I think there are a few simple things that can be said about the two geochemical graphs that were part of the press release. The major element graph of Al/Si versus Mg/Si clearly shows that the measured Mercurian surface is similar to basaltic and mantle rocks from the Earth. They plot along the Earth array and look to be a bit more olivine-rich than mid-ocean ridge basalts, but not as olivinerich as mantle peridotites, perhaps more like Archean Earth komatiites. The measured Mercurian surface is NOT delpleted in aluminum, like Martian basalts or Angrites. Also, Messenger is clearly not measuring rocks like the lunar anorthositic highlands. The major element that is still missing from this puzzle is iron. The data do not say anything about the FeO content of the Mercurian surface -- this is a pretty big deal, and until that is known it will difficult to know exactly what we are looking at -- let alone if there is a match for any known meteorite type. The potassium/thorium plot shows that Mercury is a lot like the other terrestrial planets in terms of volatile element content. It seems to be closest to the K/Th of Mars which is quite surprising, since Mars is thought to be the most volatile rich of the rocky planets. This runs counter to the idea that the inner solar system is chemically zoned with volatile elements concentrated out at Mars and lower in towards the Sun. But who knows? Maybe Mercury formed farther from the Sun and migrated inwards. There was a brief mention of substantial amounts of sulfur, but no data in the multimedia press release, so it would be interesting to know what they mean by substantial amounts. Also, why do they think it is in the form of sulfide and not sulfate?
Re: [meteorite-list] Mercury data
What they say about it: As to what to call these newfound objects, Wambsganss favors brevity. I think the most intuitive name is 'free-floating planets,' but if we decide to adopt that name then we have to give up one of our definitions of a planet, he says. A free-floating planet is a contradiction, because a planet is by definition bound in an orbit around a star. That contradiction will no doubt fuel controversy-McCaughrean calls free-floating planets, a term that appears once in the new study, a red rag to a bull. Even the more conservative free-floating planetary-mass objects can be misleading, McCaughrean says. To me, that's somewhat still equivalent to calling a Chihuahua a 'cat-massed object,' he says. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=free-floating-planets-microlensing Please, somebody give their Chihuahua the name CMO... What is more, no stars were observed within 10 astronomical units of the lensing objects - one astronomical unit is the distance between the Sun and the Earth and Saturn orbits at about 9 astronomical units. http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/46022 Why assume they have no stars? Saturn is at 9.585 AU, BTW, not 9 AU. Couldn't we have a Jupiter at Uranus distance (20 AU)? Just because we have trouble finding Jupiters at 10 AU in distant solar systems doesn't mean they aren't there. The gravitational tug-and-wobble of a Jupiter at 10 AU is small indeed. Have we got one? http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/space/deep/our-galaxy-is-littered-with-orphan-planets-5766646 A TRILLION free planets in our Galaxy? http://www.skyandtelescope.com/news/home/122278839.html How micro-lensing works (an animation): http://planetquest.jpl.nasa.gov/news/freePlanetAnim.cfm We should remember that the orphan planets cannot be seen by the telescope, only be detected by their micro-lensing flash and if they do have stars close to them those stars would be too faint to be seen with any telescope now in operation. I have seen the dark universe yawning Where the black planets roll without aim; Where they roll in their horror unheeded, Without knowledge or lustre or name. -H. P. Lovecraft, Nemesis, 1918 Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: Pete Pete rsvp...@hotmail.com To: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net; a...@unm.edu; meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2011 9:28 PM Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Mercury data Hi, Sterling and All, Here's an interesting little article I came across in Nature: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v473/n7347/full/nature10092.html http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v473/n7347/full/nature10092.html Unbound or distant planetary mass population detected by gravitational microlensing I know they've suspected wandering stars in the past, but now planets! If there's these big ones, what's to say there aren't smaller ones? Best, Pete From: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net To: a...@unm.edu; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 17:59:52 -0500 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mercury data Thanks, Carl. That's was what I was hoping for. There are two Theories of Mercury --- the old one, that Mercury formed from inner disk materials, all iron and refractories, and the new one, that Mercury suffered a Giant Impact' which added its iron to the Mercurian core but blasted Mercury's crust off to be lost. Sometimes the Giant Impact Theory is interpreted as a much-larger Mercury that lost much of its crust to a series of Pretty Dam Big Impacts that contributed no iron but blasted Mercury's crust off to be lost just the same. The old All Iron And Refractories theory seems, at first glance, to be dead, but wait! there's still a heart beat. The Crust is not The Planet. If Mercury has been pasted through the ages by errant asteroids and comets from Out-System that have been tossed down into high eccentricity orbits, that crust of volatiles could be the accretion of 4 billion years of Jupiter's trash toss-out. There's a lot wrong with this idea. It's hard to deliver material to Mercury without splashing it right off into the grip of the Sun's powerful gravity, and it would take a lot of material to pave a planet miles deep. Perhaps the anomalous crust was delivered by the Late Bombardment? Sulfur, visible as yellow swirls, streaks and patches surrounding the pits that burped it, got up and screamed Volatiles! even before those scans were released. It's just like Io, but a lot hotter. It can't accumulate like it does on Io Still, if Mercury is still boiling out sulfur after billions and billions of years, it must have started with a LOT of volatiles. Recent images of Mercury can be found at: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/messenger/multimedia/mercury_images_coll_archive_1.html
