Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - July 7, 2011
Northern rock in front of 'The Northern Rock' in the historic Northen city of York, very apt indeed! -- Martin Goff www.msg-meteorites.co.uk IMCA #3387 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD Millbillillie oriented and other nice pieces..
Dear List Members, Today I have few nice pieces available for sale: Millbillillie individual, 218 gram 100% crusted eucrite, with super fresh fusion crust. Oriented shape (great rollover lips, and bubbles on back side), currently hard to find such big ones. Hard to get such big one now. https://picasaweb.google.com/illaenus/Milly218g?authkey=Gv1sRgCPzM4ob22uirEw (photos and video) Tamdakht H5, fell in 20.12.2008 in Morocco. Here few fresh pieces: - 2281g specimen with about 65% crust : https://picasaweb.google.com/illaenus/Tamdakht2851g?authkey=Gv1sRgCOn5xt6LxcLx7wE (photo and video) - 2.4kg with some crust and beauty slickensides (photos and videos): https://picasaweb.google.com/illaenus/Tamhakht24kg?authkey=Gv1sRgCMjAsryvvMHabA (photos and video) - 1196 gram specimen: https://picasaweb.google.com/illaenus/Tamdakht1196g?authkey=Gv1sRgCM7KuqWKupKZfw Zaklodzie 33 gram slice, rare Primitive Enstatite Achondrite. Beauty slice (66x44 mm) : https://picasaweb.google.com/illaenus/Zaklodzie33g?authkey=Gv1sRgCNS3l-zZsMGDsgE#5597381460788466530 (photo and video) (smaller slices are also available). - amazing half specimen of Ghubara 1734 gram one, with in situ photo, look at amazing texture (zoom to see details) : https://picasaweb.google.com/illaenus/Ghubara1734g?authkey=Gv1sRgCJiI8eHg_4ec3AE# (photos and video) - Ureilite slice, with huge surface area, NWA 6069, weight : 30.3g (size 64x55mm) https://picasaweb.google.com/illaenus/UreiliteNWA606930g?authkey=Gv1sRgCOGJ5Mbm1fK7qgE (photo and video) - Seymchan individual 826 grams (with natural patina!!) https://picasaweb.google.com/illaenus/Seymchan827gCompleteSpecimen?authkey=Gv1sRgCOWl9PbinoPLTg (photos and video) Any question about prices or details of specimens please write to my address : illae...@gmail.com All the best Tomasz Jakubowski IMCA #2321 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD Allende end pieces
Hello I have two Allende end pieces with crust for sale ex NHM of Milan collection. One of 80.9 grams € 809,00 http://imageupper.com/i/?S0100010080031E13100318841347534 http://imageupper.com/i/?S0100010080041E13100318841347534 One of 74.3 grams € 743,00 http://imageupper.com/i/?S0100010080011E13100318841347534 http://imageupper.com/i/?S0100010080021E13100318841347534 sorry for not good quality photos but they are take in fast time Matteo M come Meteorite Meteoriti i...@mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.eu Mindat Gallery http://www.mindat.org/gallery-5018.html ChinellatoPhoto Servizi Fotografici http://www.chinellatophoto.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] google checkout declare themselves the meteorite police
May be interest to any who are considering using google checkout-it does seem like the public prefer to use them over paypal in my experience but I just got this email Hello, During our recent review, we found that the products or services on your website appear to violate the following Google Checkout content policies: - Unacceptable product category: Protected Cultural Items Artifacts As a result, your account has been suspended. You may not process any orders at this time. If applicable, any pending orders in your account have been canceled. it could be that they just don't like my unfinished and poorly ranked website and I couldn't really blame them for that as it's something that isn't a great priority for me at the minute. I wrote and asked them to be more specific and they have ignored me. Be Nice! Jim Brady IMCA 2424 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Does Asteroid Vesta Have a Moon?
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2011/06jul_vestamoon/ Does Asteroid Vesta Have a Moon? NASA Science News July 6, 2011 July 6, 2011: NASA's Dawn spacecraft is closing in on Vesta, and from now until the ion-powered spacecraft goes into orbit in mid-July, every picture of the giant asteroid will be the best one ever taken. What will researchers do with this unprecedented clarity? For starters, says Dawn chief engineer Marc Rayman, we're going to look for an asteroid moon. You might think of asteroids as isolated bodies tumbling alone through space, but it's entirely possible for these old loners to have companions. Indeed, 19-mile-wide Ida, 90-mile-wide Pulcova, 103-mile-wide Kalliope, and 135-mile-wide Eugenia each have a moon. And 175-mile-wide Sylvia has two moons. Measuring 330 miles across, Vesta is much larger than these other examples, so a Vesta moon is entirely possible. Where do such moons come from? Rayman suggests one source: When another large body collides with an asteroid, the resulting debris is sprayed into orbit around the asteroid and can gradually collapse to form a moon. Another possibility is gravitational pinball: A moon formed elsewhere in the asteroid belt might, through complicated gravitational interactions with various bodies, end up captured by the gravity of one of them. Hubble and ground based telescopes have looked for Vesta moons before, and seen nothing. Dawn is about to be in position for a closer look. This Saturday, July 9th, just one week before Dawn goes into orbit around Vesta, the moon hunt will commence. The cameras will begin taking images of the space surrounding the asteroid, looking for suspicious specks. If a moon is there, it will appear as a dot that moves around Vesta in successive images as opposed to remaining fixed, like background stars, says Dawn Co-investigator Mark Sykes, who is also director of the Planetary Science Institute. We'll be able to use short exposures to detect moons as small as 27 meters in diameter. If our longer exposures aren't washed out by the glare of nearby Vesta, we'll be able to detect moons only a few meters in diameter. While you won't see find a moon among the mission's science goals, a moon-sighting would be a nice feather in Dawn's cap. Not that it will need more feathers. The probe is already primed to build global maps and take detailed images of the asteroid's surface, reveal the fine points of its topography, and catalog the minerals and elements present there. Besides, Dawn will become a moon itself when it enters orbit around Vesta. And the probe's motions as it circles will provide a lot of information about the rocky relic. Sykes explains: We'll use the spacecraft's radio signal to measure its motion around Vesta. This will give us a lot of detailed information about the asteroid's gravitational field. We'll learn about Vesta's mass and interior structure, including its core and potential mascons (lumpy concentrations of mass). As you read this, the spacecraft is gently thrusting closer to its target. And with the navigation images alone we're already watching a never-before-seen world grow ever larger and clearer. The pictures are beginning to reveal the surface of this battered, alien world, says Rayman. They're more than enough to tantalize us. We've been in flight for four years, we've been planning the mission for a decade, and people have been looking at Vesta in the night sky for two centuries. Now, finally, we're coming close up to it, and we'll be getting an intimate view of this place. This is not only the first time a spacecraft has visited this alien world, it's also the first time a spacecraft has visited a massive body we haven't approached previously. In the past, rocket ships have orbited Earth, the moon, Mars, Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, and Mercury. In each case, flyby missions occurred first, providing a good estimate of the target's gravity along with information on other aspects of its physical environment, including whether any moons are present. This time we're much less certain what we'll find. At a recent press conference, NASA Planetary Science Deputy Director Jim Adams told reporters that Dawn will paint a face on a world seen only as a 'fuzzy blob' up to now. What does Rayman think Vesta's face will look like? Wrinkled, ancient, wizened, with a tremendous amount of character that bears witness to some fascinating episodes in the solar system's history. If a new moon is among the episodes, Rayman has a name in mind. How about 'Dawn'? Author: Dauna Coulter Editor: Dr. Tony Phillips Credit: Science@NASA More Information Dawn Journal http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/journal_06_23_11.asp -- penned by Dawn's chief engineer Marc Rayman Footnotes: (1) In addition to having moons, asteroids can also be double: Binary asteroids http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap001101.html sometimes form when a spinning parent body splits. The body is spun up by a
[meteorite-list] google checkout declare themselves the meteorite police
Jim, More likely, they've bought into the recent hype and negative publicity about the meteorite black market. They have to stay politically correct! Erin go bragh, Phil Whitmer -- May be interest to any who are considering using google checkout-it does seem like the public prefer to use them over paypal in my experience but I just got this email Hello, During our recent review, we found that the products or services on your website appear to violate the following Google Checkout content policies: - Unacceptable product category: Protected Cultural Items Artifacts As a result, your account has been suspended. You may not process any orders at this time. If applicable, any pending orders in your account have been canceled. it could be that they just don't like my unfinished and poorly ranked website and I couldn't really blame them for that as it's something that isn't a great priority for me at the minute. I wrote and asked them to be more specific and they have ignored me. Be Nice! Jim Brady IMCA 2424 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] google checkout declare themselves the meteorite police
Unfortunately google is still working on how to respond in global marketplaces. At the moment they follow various laws and conventions of UNESCO and probably the laws of a couple of countries, all at once. So you have incidents where they suspend seller accounts anywhere if they sell old stamps because of a 1970's UNESCO law: http://www.bidstart.com/bidStart-Seller-s-Google-Checkout-Account-Suspended-by-Google-Bringing-Stamp-Sales-to-a-Sticky-Halt_QQtitleQQ246QQidQQdisplaynews So if a country somewhere bans the sales or export of meteorites, google may take this as a global view and apply the rules everywhere to keep themselves legally safe. They also don't have a call center or any numbers you can call to complain. So at the moment there is not much that can be done about such things. Find another checkout system? -Yinan On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 10:58 AM, jim_brady...@o2.co.uk wrote: May be interest to any who are considering using google checkout-it does seem like the public prefer to use them over paypal in my experience but I just got this email Hello, During our recent review, we found that the products or services on your website appear to violate the following Google Checkout content policies: - Unacceptable product category: Protected Cultural Items Artifacts As a result, your account has been suspended. You may not process any orders at this time. If applicable, any pending orders in your account have been canceled. it could be that they just don't like my unfinished and poorly ranked website and I couldn't really blame them for that as it's something that isn't a great priority for me at the minute. I wrote and asked them to be more specific and they have ignored me. Be Nice! Jim Brady IMCA 2424 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] google checkout declare themselves the meteorite police
Yinan wrote: They also don't have a call center or any numbers you can call to complain. So at the moment there is not much that can be done about such things. Find another checkout system? Hi Yinan - Egads, that was an excellent explanation which IMO sounds like you hit the nail on the head. For those who care, I hope someone or some concerned group for the responsible exchange of meteorites out there recognizes and is willing to pick this up. Running from it could embolden others to follow suite due to the nature of meteorites. With stamps it is arguably clearer than meteorites. Now, it's not a hypothetical case- we have one concrete member of the community who's been affected and like in the stamp case mentioned, it is not a healthy situation to have all of the eggs in one basket via PayPal. If PayPal, not noted for their logic always, gets any crazy or misguided ideas ... Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Yinan Wang veom...@gmail.com To: jim_brady...@o2.co.uk Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thu, Jul 7, 2011 1:46 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] google checkout declare themselves the meteorite police Unfortunately google is still working on how to respond in global marketplaces. At the moment they follow various laws and conventions of UNESCO and probably the laws of a couple of countries, all at once. So you have incidents where they suspend seller accounts anywhere if they sell old stamps because of a 1970's UNESCO law: http://www.bidstart.com/bidStart-Seller-s-Google-Checkout-Account-Suspended-by-Google-Bringing-Stamp-Sales-to-a-Sticky-Halt_QQtitleQQ246QQidQQdisplaynews So if a country somewhere bans the sales or export of meteorites, google may take this as a global view and apply the rules everywhere to keep themselves legally safe. They also don't have a call center or any numbers you can call to complain. So at the moment there is not much that can be done about such things. Find another checkout system? -Yinan On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 10:58 AM, jim_brady...@o2.co.uk wrote: May be interest to any who are considering using google checkout-it does seem like the public prefer to use them over paypal in my experience but I just got this email Hello, During our recent review, we found that the products or services on your website appear to violate the following Google Checkout content policies: - Unacceptable product category: Protected Cultural Items Artifacts As a result, your account has been suspended. You may not process any orders at this time. If applicable, any pending orders in your account have been canceled. it could be that they just don't like my unfinished and poorly ranked website and I couldn't really blame them for that as it's something that isn't a great priority for me at the minute. I wrote and asked them to be more specific and they have ignored me. Be Nice! Jim Brady IMCA 2424 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] The Encounter with 2011 MD
Kelly Beatty has an interesting article about the recent encounter with 2011 MD. http://www.skyandtelescope.com/news/125041789.html -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Does Asteroid Vesta Have a Moon?
I would bet the excitement is really starting to build for the people working on this mission. Shouldn't be long now until they can figure out what Vesta is made up of. Congratulations to everyone involved. Mike in CO On Jul 7, 2011, at 11:07 AM, Ron Baalke wrote: http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2011/06jul_vestamoon/ Does Asteroid Vesta Have a Moon? NASA Science News July 6, 2011 July 6, 2011: NASA's Dawn spacecraft is closing in on Vesta, and from now until the ion-powered spacecraft goes into orbit in mid-July, every picture of the giant asteroid will be the best one ever taken. What will researchers do with this unprecedented clarity? For starters, says Dawn chief engineer Marc Rayman, we're going to look for an asteroid moon. You might think of asteroids as isolated bodies tumbling alone through space, but it's entirely possible for these old loners to have companions. Indeed, 19-mile-wide Ida, 90-mile-wide Pulcova, 103-mile-wide Kalliope, and 135-mile-wide Eugenia each have a moon. And 175-mile-wide Sylvia has two moons. Measuring 330 miles across, Vesta is much larger than these other examples, so a Vesta moon is entirely possible. Where do such moons come from? Rayman suggests one source: When another large body collides with an asteroid, the resulting debris is sprayed into orbit around the asteroid and can gradually collapse to form a moon. Another possibility is gravitational pinball: A moon formed elsewhere in the asteroid belt might, through complicated gravitational interactions with various bodies, end up captured by the gravity of one of them. Hubble and ground based telescopes have looked for Vesta moons before, and seen nothing. Dawn is about to be in position for a closer look. This Saturday, July 9th, just one week before Dawn goes into orbit around Vesta, the moon hunt will commence. The cameras will begin taking images of the space surrounding the asteroid, looking for suspicious specks. If a moon is there, it will appear as a dot that moves around Vesta in successive images as opposed to remaining fixed, like background stars, says Dawn Co-investigator Mark Sykes, who is also director of the Planetary Science Institute. We'll be able to use short exposures to detect moons as small as 27 meters in diameter. If our longer exposures aren't washed out by the glare of nearby Vesta, we'll be able to detect moons only a few meters in diameter. While you won't see find a moon among the mission's science goals, a moon-sighting would be a nice feather in Dawn's cap. Not that it will need more feathers. The probe is already primed to build global maps and take detailed images of the asteroid's surface, reveal the fine points of its topography, and catalog the minerals and elements present there. Besides, Dawn will become a moon itself when it enters orbit around Vesta. And the probe's motions as it circles will provide a lot of information about the rocky relic. Sykes explains: We'll use the spacecraft's radio signal to measure its motion around Vesta. This will give us a lot of detailed information about the asteroid's gravitational field. We'll learn about Vesta's mass and interior structure, including its core and potential mascons (lumpy concentrations of mass). As you read this, the spacecraft is gently thrusting closer to its target. And with the navigation images alone we're already watching a never-before-seen world grow ever larger and clearer. The pictures are beginning to reveal the surface of this battered, alien world, says Rayman. They're more than enough to tantalize us. We've been in flight for four years, we've been planning the mission for a decade, and people have been looking at Vesta in the night sky for two centuries. Now, finally, we're coming close up to it, and we'll be getting an intimate view of this place. This is not only the first time a spacecraft has visited this alien world, it's also the first time a spacecraft has visited a massive body we haven't approached previously. In the past, rocket ships have orbited Earth, the moon, Mars, Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, and Mercury. In each case, flyby missions occurred first, providing a good estimate of the target's gravity along with information on other aspects of its physical environment, including whether any moons are present. This time we're much less certain what we'll find. At a recent press conference, NASA Planetary Science Deputy Director Jim Adams told reporters that Dawn will paint a face on a world seen only as a 'fuzzy blob' up to now. What does Rayman think Vesta's face will look like? Wrinkled, ancient, wizened, with a tremendous amount of character that bears witness to some fascinating episodes in the solar system's history. If a new moon is among the episodes, Rayman has a name in mind. How about 'Dawn'? Author: Dauna Coulter Editor: Dr. Tony Phillips Credit: Science@NASA More
[meteorite-list] The Mysterious Crestone Crater: A real meteor crater or not? (Colorado)
The Mysterious Crestone Crater: A real meteor crater or not? by Keno The Crestone Eagle, northern San Luis Valley of Colorado, July 7, 2011, http://crestoneeagle.com/2011/06/30/the-mysterious-crestone-crater-a-real-meteor-crater-or-not/ http://www.fr.sott.net/articles/show/230879-US-Colorado-The-Mysterious-Crestone-Crater-A-real-meteor-crater-or-not- and Bostick, M., 2004, [meteorite-list] NPA 12-24-1941 Colorado Men Strike Meteor (Wrong?), Nininger. Wed Dec 29 09:30:48 EST 2004 http://meteorite-identification.com/mwnews/12241941.htm http://www.mail-archive.com/meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com/msg28650.html A couple of references: Caldwell, Andrew C., 1998, An analysis and survey of possible meteorite impact craters in Colorado. Geological Society of America Abstract with Programs. vol. 35, no. 5, p. 41. Marvin, U. B., and T. C. Marvin, 1960, A re-examination of the crater near Crestone, Colorado. Meteoritics. vol. 3, no. 1, pp.1-10. http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1966Metic...31M Yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] MRO HiRISE Images - July 7, 2011
MARS RECONNAISSANCE ORBITER HIRISE IMAGES July 7, 2011 o Distal Margin of the Bacolor Crater Ejecta Layer http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_020305_2125 In some cases the ejecta has a flow-like edge, which might be related to subsurface water or ice being incorporated into the ejecta. o Eroded Crater Deposit in the Eastern Arabia Region http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_020334_2065 One possible cause of this type of degradation could be loss of ice from the surface material. o Fan-Shaped Deposit in Valles Marineris Trough http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ESP_022949_1650 The fan itself shows many layers, each likely corresponding to a different episode in the history of the system. All of the HiRISE images are archived here: http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/ Information about the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter is online at http://www.nasa.gov/mro. The mission is managed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology, for the NASA Science Mission Directorate, Washington, D.C. Lockheed Martin Space Systems, of Denver, is the prime contractor and built the spacecraft. HiRISE is operated by the University of Arizona. Ball Aerospace and Technologies Corp., of Boulder, Colo., built the HiRISE instrument. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Does Asteroid Vesta Have a Moon?
If Vesta were to have a Moon, that, IMO would be a major gift from the heavens should it turn out to be a accreted V-class asteroid (Vestoid). I'm not sure if the flight plan of DAWN is amenable to any potential glimpses of a so-called Vestoid, but if more information could be gathered and analyzed on one or more we would really be in a greater position to speak of what's going on with some of the HEDX meteorites. This of course assumes that the HEDs originate from Vesta. We have to keep in mind that the CRE age of many of the HEDs in our collections are around 50 million years old or less, perhaps two of them at ~20 and ~50 million years ago, perhaps not so simple. Since Vesta is not near the Kirkwood gaps, this makes it highly unlikely that any of the meteorites come from such young aged collisions, but rather from an errant Vestoid or two that percolated into them over the 4 billion (billion=10^9) years since the large impact are postulated. It would be exciting to learn that the large impact happened 80 million years or so after proto-Vesta began forming and firm up theories on what macro events shaped Vesta's history. Vesta is really a special asteroid in the sense we can see it at opportune moments from Earth only because it is so bright. This brightness is postulated to be caused by the light color of the eucrite material we hold in our trembling meteoritical-friendly hands. It is basically proposed to be igneous, or a sort of Vesta lava which collected, perhaps flowing in oceans first, on the surface of the planetoid shortly after its formation while the radioactive elements and immense compression developed by gravity still provided and trapped the heat to the coalescing bodies. Unfortunately, there aren't any other asteroids that are as visible by eye and this has to do with size and well as absence of such bright core material. While the mission will help with many questions, I think whatever is deduced will only result in further enigmas and don't hold my breath for definitive resolution like some might assume of the visit. It will no doubt prove to be a very convoluted case as was Vesta's impact history and my fingers are crossed but tempered by remembering the uncertainties we still have about Earth and the Moon's early impact history. The idea is this history may be preserved more clearly and we can hypothesize about it by going to Vesta instead ... Hopefully the enthusiastically awaited data and its interpretation will be enough to shut up the suspicious few that say it is not as likely that HEDs originate from Vesta - a certain distinguished semi-retired UCLA researcher comes to mind and may yet have the last word, or if it goes as I hope, conveniently forget that position. One especially interesting item I hope to hear about is a final answer as to how that huge crater on Vesta's southern region happened and still allowed Vesta to remain uniquely intact for our exploration today. I wonder how hot Vesta became as a result of that impact: does its age match the 80 million year lapse since accretion mentioned above?; how this heat was distributed among the latitudes, surface and deeper core? Being of igneous extraction, I even wonder if a contribution of a higher thermal conductivity and perhaps lower friability (for my lack of the more technical term which must exist) cohesive shell assisted in conserving the body, maybe like the strength of an egg shell when you try to break it by applying uniform pressure to a great surface area of it ... the show is about to start! So a V-class Moon would be great, and while we're wishing, how about a big V-class meteoroid to slam into Earth to set of the orbital insertion fiesta at Vesta! Wouldn't it be great to know if the HEDs, assuming in fact they are Vesta-derived, are first generation grandchildren of the impact event? I.e., a large Vestoid (child of the original impact) was smashed and produce a large proportion of the H-E-D meteoroids that make it to Earth. A Moon of any size might help depending on luck and the skill of the analysis, but you probably can see that it's really convoluted - who's to say we're not 5 generations removed in the impact sense. One clue we already have on Earth may be the meteorites, and especially the diogenites which are proposed to be found under the frozen eucrite surface shell (which itself has a few billion years of residue upon it). This is why howardites are more likely to contain natural meteorite collections from this lithified residue. But my question, one minor one when you compare it to all at stake is why the diogenites are relatively so clean. Does anyone have any interesting inclusions in their diogenites? How likely is it that multiple-generation impacts would produce a dirtier meteorite. Furthermore, there is still one gnawing problem ... that could flip this whole thing on its north pole. Vesta's brightness itself
Re: [meteorite-list] Does Asteroid Vesta Have a Moon?
List, Considering the possible plausibility of a pending companion 'moon' orbiting Vesta (or two???); and considering Mexico Doug's last contribution I pose a question: How could that grand ol' impact evidentiary-crater produce a moon of the ssame petrologic composition of Vesta's primary/current achondritic compostition be similar, due to a greater resultant mb-recrystalization from impact, than the host? Curious, Richard Montgomery - Original Message - From: Ron Baalke baa...@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 10:07 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Does Asteroid Vesta Have a Moon? http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2011/06jul_vestamoon/ Does Asteroid Vesta Have a Moon? NASA Science News July 6, 2011 July 6, 2011: NASA's Dawn spacecraft is closing in on Vesta, and from now until the ion-powered spacecraft goes into orbit in mid-July, every picture of the giant asteroid will be the best one ever taken. What will researchers do with this unprecedented clarity? For starters, says Dawn chief engineer Marc Rayman, we're going to look for an asteroid moon. You might think of asteroids as isolated bodies tumbling alone through space, but it's entirely possible for these old loners to have companions. Indeed, 19-mile-wide Ida, 90-mile-wide Pulcova, 103-mile-wide Kalliope, and 135-mile-wide Eugenia each have a moon. And 175-mile-wide Sylvia has two moons. Measuring 330 miles across, Vesta is much larger than these other examples, so a Vesta moon is entirely possible. Where do such moons come from? Rayman suggests one source: When another large body collides with an asteroid, the resulting debris is sprayed into orbit around the asteroid and can gradually collapse to form a moon. Another possibility is gravitational pinball: A moon formed elsewhere in the asteroid belt might, through complicated gravitational interactions with various bodies, end up captured by the gravity of one of them. Hubble and ground based telescopes have looked for Vesta moons before, and seen nothing. Dawn is about to be in position for a closer look. This Saturday, July 9th, just one week before Dawn goes into orbit around Vesta, the moon hunt will commence. The cameras will begin taking images of the space surrounding the asteroid, looking for suspicious specks. If a moon is there, it will appear as a dot that moves around Vesta in successive images as opposed to remaining fixed, like background stars, says Dawn Co-investigator Mark Sykes, who is also director of the Planetary Science Institute. We'll be able to use short exposures to detect moons as small as 27 meters in diameter. If our longer exposures aren't washed out by the glare of nearby Vesta, we'll be able to detect moons only a few meters in diameter. While you won't see find a moon among the mission's science goals, a moon-sighting would be a nice feather in Dawn's cap. Not that it will need more feathers. The probe is already primed to build global maps and take detailed images of the asteroid's surface, reveal the fine points of its topography, and catalog the minerals and elements present there. Besides, Dawn will become a moon itself when it enters orbit around Vesta. And the probe's motions as it circles will provide a lot of information about the rocky relic. Sykes explains: We'll use the spacecraft's radio signal to measure its motion around Vesta. This will give us a lot of detailed information about the asteroid's gravitational field. We'll learn about Vesta's mass and interior structure, including its core and potential mascons (lumpy concentrations of mass). As you read this, the spacecraft is gently thrusting closer to its target. And with the navigation images alone we're already watching a never-before-seen world grow ever larger and clearer. The pictures are beginning to reveal the surface of this battered, alien world, says Rayman. They're more than enough to tantalize us. We've been in flight for four years, we've been planning the mission for a decade, and people have been looking at Vesta in the night sky for two centuries. Now, finally, we're coming close up to it, and we'll be getting an intimate view of this place. This is not only the first time a spacecraft has visited this alien world, it's also the first time a spacecraft has visited a massive body we haven't approached previously. In the past, rocket ships have orbited Earth, the moon, Mars, Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, and Mercury. In each case, flyby missions occurred first, providing a good estimate of the target's gravity along with information on other aspects of its physical environment, including whether any moons are present. This time we're much less certain what we'll find. At a recent press conference, NASA Planetary Science Deputy Director Jim Adams told reporters that Dawn will paint a face on a world seen only as a 'fuzzy blob' up to now. What does
[meteorite-list] Breaking News- Major Bolide Reported over Tabatinga, Brasil 6JUL2011
Dear List, Major Bolide Reported over Tabatinga, Brasil 6JUL2011 http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2011/07/just-breaking-news-bulletin-tabatinga.html Anyone have any info on re-entry of space trash? Thank you! Dirk Ross...Tokyo __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Does Asteroid Vesta Have a Moon?
Given Vesta's relatively low gravity -- 0.022 gee -- and its low escape velocity -- 350 m/s -- it would be very heard to smash Vesta hard enough to knock a chunk, oh, say, 5 km across off that hard rock and yet have it have so little energy that it moved slower than 350 m/s, which is a mere 783 mph. Much more likely scenario of a moon is a capture of a totally unrelated space rock. Lots of origin theory smoke, no data measurement fire. That is, we don't know the compositions of the minor planet moons we do know about, and we do know about quite a few: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minor_planet_moon Only close moons are likely to be chips off the old block. Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net To: Ron Baalke baa...@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov; Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 8:09 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Does Asteroid Vesta Have a Moon? List, Considering the possible plausibility of a pending companion 'moon' orbiting Vesta (or two???); and considering Mexico Doug's last contribution I pose a question: How could that grand ol' impact evidentiary-crater produce a moon of the ssame petrologic composition of Vesta's primary/current achondritic compostition be similar, due to a greater resultant mb-recrystalization from impact, than the host? Curious, Richard Montgomery - Original Message - From: Ron Baalke baa...@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 10:07 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Does Asteroid Vesta Have a Moon? http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2011/06jul_vestamoon/ Does Asteroid Vesta Have a Moon? NASA Science News July 6, 2011 July 6, 2011: NASA's Dawn spacecraft is closing in on Vesta, and from now until the ion-powered spacecraft goes into orbit in mid-July, every picture of the giant asteroid will be the best one ever taken. What will researchers do with this unprecedented clarity? For starters, says Dawn chief engineer Marc Rayman, we're going to look for an asteroid moon. You might think of asteroids as isolated bodies tumbling alone through space, but it's entirely possible for these old loners to have companions. Indeed, 19-mile-wide Ida, 90-mile-wide Pulcova, 103-mile-wide Kalliope, and 135-mile-wide Eugenia each have a moon. And 175-mile-wide Sylvia has two moons. Measuring 330 miles across, Vesta is much larger than these other examples, so a Vesta moon is entirely possible. Where do such moons come from? Rayman suggests one source: When another large body collides with an asteroid, the resulting debris is sprayed into orbit around the asteroid and can gradually collapse to form a moon. Another possibility is gravitational pinball: A moon formed elsewhere in the asteroid belt might, through complicated gravitational interactions with various bodies, end up captured by the gravity of one of them. Hubble and ground based telescopes have looked for Vesta moons before, and seen nothing. Dawn is about to be in position for a closer look. This Saturday, July 9th, just one week before Dawn goes into orbit around Vesta, the moon hunt will commence. The cameras will begin taking images of the space surrounding the asteroid, looking for suspicious specks. If a moon is there, it will appear as a dot that moves around Vesta in successive images as opposed to remaining fixed, like background stars, says Dawn Co-investigator Mark Sykes, who is also director of the Planetary Science Institute. We'll be able to use short exposures to detect moons as small as 27 meters in diameter. If our longer exposures aren't washed out by the glare of nearby Vesta, we'll be able to detect moons only a few meters in diameter. While you won't see find a moon among the mission's science goals, a moon-sighting would be a nice feather in Dawn's cap. Not that it will need more feathers. The probe is already primed to build global maps and take detailed images of the asteroid's surface, reveal the fine points of its topography, and catalog the minerals and elements present there. Besides, Dawn will become a moon itself when it enters orbit around Vesta. And the probe's motions as it circles will provide a lot of information about the rocky relic. Sykes explains: We'll use the spacecraft's radio signal to measure its motion around Vesta. This will give us a lot of detailed information about the asteroid's gravitational field. We'll learn about Vesta's mass and interior structure, including its core and potential mascons (lumpy concentrations of mass). As you read this, the spacecraft is gently thrusting closer to its target. And with the navigation images alone we're already watching a never-before-seen world grow ever larger and clearer. The pictures are beginning to
Re: [meteorite-list] google checkout declare themselves themeteorite police
G'Day Everyone Decided to try and take on Google in this situation. I just received a response back, actually pretty fast. But I'm checking my head for air. The response is as follows and I also submitted Anne Black's rebuttal. Talk about a pain in the a** getting through to them. Give me a break. Actually, I might need to do a little driving in L.A. and approach their branch directly. It's not that too far away Cheers John Cabassi IMCA # 2125 Hello, We understand the urgent nature of your message and recommend that you visit the Gmail Privacy Security Help Center at https://mail.google.com/support/bin/topic.py?topic=12784 for immediate assistance. If you'd like to report a Gmail user who has sent messages that violate the Gmail Program Policies and/or Terms of Use, please fill out a report form at http://mail.google.com/support/bin/request.py?contact_type=abuse_phishin g. We'll investigate your report and may send a warning or discontinue Gmail service for users who violate our policies. If your issue is not related to abuse, please visit our Help Center at http://mail.google.com/support/ or click 'Help' at the top of any Gmail page for troubleshooting tips. Sincerely, The Google Team * This message was sent from a notification-only email address that does not accept incoming email. Please do not reply to this message. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Does Asteroid Vesta Have a Moon?
Hi Sterling, For your run of the mill asteroid and some random impact, that would be a pretty good summary ... But personally, I think in the case of Vesta is anything but run of the mill (i.e., commonplace) - anything could be possible. I think, whether a Moon is found or not, the answer to Richard's question regarding possibility could be figured out by looking at the ejecta pattern and size distribution. You may be right about the possibilities and you severely limit the case by supposing a 5 km size giant rock. I want to generalize this more - the article we commented on tenderly referred to the Dawn Spacecraft becoming a moon of Vesta - so in that spirit we are talking about a 2 meter diameter one ton cube with Solar Panels and antenna. Thinking about the Meteor Crater or even bridging it to Carancas (see the picture of the tossed bedmud ;-) ) e.g., Svend's first picture: http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/meteorite_carancas.htm Could one such boulder fall into the correct velocity range as you radiate outwards from the point of impact? Well, what is that velocity range? Well, Sterling: you gave us the escape velocity, but that is only one point. To better answer the question, we need to know the range. As you mentioned, the escape velocity is 350 m/s, so it would be less: but how much less to get our arms around this beast? I'll spare the calculation, all you need to do is divide 350 by square root of 2 to get the minimum velocity to attain orbit around Vest's surface. So it's 247 m/s. Thus the range of upward velocity (in is 247 to 350 m/s for Vesta. That's a big chunk of range. In English units 552 mph to 783 mph (cruising speeds for commercial airliners up to about Mach 1). You say: Only close moons are likely to be chips off the old block. I disagree with this too: since I don't see a reason that a 247 - 275 m/s velocity would be favored for example over 275 - 350 m/s in one of these events, but I suppose if you want to focus on the range close to escape velocity you could argue that point well ... and that more distant captures are more likely statistically so I'll leave that one alone since we are now talking about comparing two probabilities we don't know anything much about. It happens that the 247 - 350 m/s velocity range to launch from and orbit Vesta is right at the middle of the muzzle velocities of a the common .22 caliber rifle (which would make Vesta the ideal cartoon world to shoot bullets in ellipses and have them go around and put a hole in the back of the shooter's head.) Do I think a small chunk could be ejected and go into orbit? === Most definitely. Do I know the probability? No. Do I think piles of rubble in the 247 - 350 m/s range could have been ejected - yes. Could it have been hot from impact? Yes, hypothetically. Would it form a body - Maybe not, I don't know. But if Carancas and Meteor Crater are any indication I would think it wasn't as poor odds as your post might lead one to believe whether you believe in chunks or rubble piles. Especially considering there were a great deal more of kg's ejected from Vesta in that impact. It's thought 1% of the Asteroid's mass, which comes out to 2,500,000,000,000,000,000 kg. Could 1000 of them be included? Sure! Could anything a lot bigger be ejected in that velocity range. I dunno but there are many tons of mass to play with in different impact scenarios in a crater half the size of Germany. Kindest wishes Doug Think Meteor Crater -Original Message- From: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net To: Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net; Ron Baalke baa...@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov; Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thu, Jul 7, 2011 10:54 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Does Asteroid Vesta Have a Moon? Given Vesta's relatively low gravity -- 0.022 gee -- and its low escape velocity -- 350 m/s -- it would be very heard to smash Vesta hard enough to knock a chunk, oh, say, 5 km across off that hard rock and yet have it have so little energy that it moved slower than 350 m/s, which is a mere 783 mph. Much more likely scenario of a moon is a capture of a totally unrelated space rock. Lots of origin theory smoke, no data measurement fire. That is, we don't know the compositions of the minor planet moons we do know about, and we do know about quite a few: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minor_planet_moon Only close moons are likely to be chips off the old block. Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net To: Ron Baalke baa...@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov; Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 8:09 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Does Asteroid Vesta Have a Moon? List, Considering the possible plausibility of a pending companion
[meteorite-list] OT James Webb Space Telescope
Bummer! Does anyone have Bill Gates' phone number? http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/07/07/canadian-developed-space-telescope-nixed-by-u-s-congress/ http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/07/07/canadian-developed-space-telescope-nixed-by-u-s-congress/ Canadian developed space telescope nixed by U.S. Congress By Amy Chung and Max Harrold OTTAWA — Space researchers were reeling Thursday over a decision in the U.S. Congress to axe funding for the James Webb Space Telescope — a Canadian and European joint effort with NASA that would peer deeper into space. Canada has earmarked $147 million for the project. The U.S. House of Representatives Appropriations Subcommittee on Commerce, Justice and Science approved a yearly spending bill earlier in the day that includes no money for the JWST — the successor to the Earth-orbiting Hubble Telescope that was launched in 1990. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT James Webb Space Telescope
The Planetary Society's view: http://www.planetary.org/blog/article/3091/ patrick On 07 Jul 2011, at 23:02, Pete Pete wrote: Bummer! Does anyone have Bill Gates' phone number? http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/07/07/canadian-developed-space-telescope-nixed-by-u-s-congress/ http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/07/07/canadian-developed-space-telescope-nixed-by-u-s-congress/ Canadian developed space telescope nixed by U.S. Congress By Amy Chung and Max Harrold OTTAWA — Space researchers were reeling Thursday over a decision in the U.S. Congress to axe funding for the James Webb Space Telescope — a Canadian and European joint effort with NASA that would peer deeper into space. Canada has earmarked $147 million for the project. The U.S. House of Representatives Appropriations Subcommittee on Commerce, Justice and Science approved a yearly spending bill earlier in the day that includes no money for the JWST — the successor to the Earth-orbiting Hubble Telescope that was launched in 1990. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT James Webb Space Telescope
The JWST has turned into a long-term project, stretching out its schedule to later and later launch dates. That is not a bad thing because the project improves as it does so. The loss of a year's funding needs to be partly reversed so that the project and personnel can be maintained until the return of funding. It wouldn't matter if it took an extra year to complete. We're already three billion dollars into the job. Of course, Congress could always simply throw that money away; they ARE stupid enough. It's not like the SSC which we abandoned after spending two billion (1993) dollars in it. Oh, wait! It is exactly like that. Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: Pete Pete rsvp...@hotmail.com To: meteoritelist meteoritelist meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 12:02 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] OT James Webb Space Telescope Bummer! Does anyone have Bill Gates' phone number? http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/07/07/canadian-developed-space-telescope-nixed-by-u-s-congress/ http://news.nationalpost.com/2011/07/07/canadian-developed-space-telescope-nixed-by-u-s-congress/ Canadian developed space telescope nixed by U.S. Congress By Amy Chung and Max Harrold OTTAWA — Space researchers were reeling Thursday over a decision in the U.S. Congress to axe funding for the James Webb Space Telescope — a Canadian and European joint effort with NASA that would peer deeper into space. Canada has earmarked $147 million for the project. The U.S. House of Representatives Appropriations Subcommittee on Commerce, Justice and Science approved a yearly spending bill earlier in the day that includes no money for the JWST — the successor to the Earth-orbiting Hubble Telescope that was launched in 1990. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
