[meteorite-list] AD - NWA 7714 New Fresh Howardite!
Hello List, i have a new Achondrite - Howardite which has been recently classified. It's NWA 7714, a very beautiful and fresh HED. The most slices that i can offer now are nice fullslices, many of them show nice green crystals. There is not much of this material, (the TKW is low), only 119g. And because of the cut loss there is less of it available. Please take a look here: http://www.gi-po.de/ebayfolder/shop%202013/7714.html Don't hesitate to contact me if you are interested in any of these. All prices plus shipping. Many thanks for viewing, Carsten Giessler __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Membrane box wanted asap
Hi all, Does anyone have available one of the larger membrane boxes available to ship asap, specifically the 100mm x 100mm x either 50mm or 75mm?? Any help appreciated :-) Cheers Martin -- Martin Goff www.msg-meteorites.co.uk IMCA #3387 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] To extend asteroid-surveillance near to suns direction -Chelyabinsk meteoroid
Hello Ron, hi list, the Chelyabinsk 15-17m meteoroid was coming just ~15° from suns direction. Is there any space craft planned for incoming asteroid-surveillance near to the sun ? (Earth as the point of view) Which orbit would be the most effective to cover this space area ? How many of those satellites are needed to cover most of this dangerous area ? Which studies do already exist for such a mission ? Who is working on realization ? In the future, even if we would discover such an impactor few hours before entering the atmosphere (like TC3 asteroid in 2008), warnings to the people near impact side could prevent a lot of injuries. (and create a new kind of super bolide tourism ;-) Best Regards, Thomas Kurtz, Weil der Stadt (native town of J.Kepler) Germany __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Fwd: sharp protrusion from an iron meteorite
Martin, Please don't compare my knowledge about meteorites to Jorge's behavior. Eric nailed this one on the head. I have a degree in geology insofar as I am currently taking structural geology to complete the degree. For all intents and purposes, I am as qualified as anyone with a relevant degree, having taken mineralogy, petrology, and field-mapping, the only required courses that involve mineral and rock identification. Most scientists who study meteorites, regardless of their degree, would not be qualified to visually pair any meteorites in the fashion that Adam described for his NWA 4880 specimens. I suppose you could try to hold me to the arbitrary you don't have the degree on your wall yet, but I'll have it in two months. You're just attacking me ad nauseam. I don't get it. So, what constitutes an expert in such things? Perhaps someone with fifteen years' experience with meteorites? Someone who can look at an auction like Jorge's, see the texture of the crust, and know that it's not right? Perhaps someone who has done that sort of thing several times? I know there are other folks around who could discriminate between the relevant meteorites in those situations, but...I don't know any well-known 'scientists' who could. I've put photos of one of the NWA 7034-paired fragments on facebook. Painfully obvious that it's the same stuff. If you don't think it's enough proof, by all means take it to the IMCA. If they ask me to change the wording of anything, I suppose I'll have to. Until then, please stop quoting the rules to me. You were removed due to ethics violations, remember? Or did you resign before you could get booted? I forget. Jason On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 11:39 PM, Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: Hi Jason, Uff, slowly you seem to understand, what others smarter than we both got already from the 1st posting on. I say: - Your material has a different status than NWA 2975 and NWA 7034, especially a lower collector's (and therefore monetary) value. - You present your material in a way, which makes a possible buyer believe, that they are either part of the very stone(s) to which classifiers and the Meteoritical Society designed the numbers NWA 2975 and NWA 7034, or that they were confirmed by a professional meteorite scientist to be paired to them. - As long as you don't own a degree in that field and as long they don't undergo the formal classification and acceptationprocedures of the Meteoritical Society, you're not allowed to call them formally paired to these numbers, but you have to make it unmistakably clear, that this is only your personal guess. - It is good business practice to use the same conventions, how to label and name such material, like they are established among your dealers and collectors colleagues. - The way you present and describe your material breaks the binding rules of the International Meteorite Collectors Association, to which you agreed to abide as a member. In particular those, quoty quote: If members wish to sell or trade meteoritic specimens, then those items must be 'actually and exactly what is claimed.' (Merriam-Webster-Dictionary) Our members agree to adhere to the highest standards of meteorite identification and proper labelling practices. (...) I agree that it is the sole responsibility of each member to accurately describe meteoritic material for sale, trade or other related transactions without providing any misleading or false information. and especially (...) I agree that unclassified 'meteorites' purchased on eBay or other avenues from unknown sellers might not be meteorites. I will not sell or trade any meteorites I may have found (or any questionable meteoritic material) unless I first obtain verification from a meteorite expert. And especially: Verified but unclassified material should be specified as such. Meteoritical Society guidelines will prevail in the circumstance of meteorite naming and pairing (- mean point, therefore the brackets, would be, to remind you, that for you the way that Mr. Jorge authenticated his pseudo-Chelyabinsk wasn't sufficient - but nothing else did you with your Martians, i.e. to trust your source and to inspect them personally. There is the danger for you, to loose credibility in attacking others..) And see, Especially the last point regarding the Code of Ethics of IMCA makes it so comfort for both of us, cause we don't have to discuss, whether those procedures are necessary or meaningful or which properties of your material made you think to be able to verify it or whether evil Martin doesn't like your nose or whether your material is authentic ect.pp. that's all not of interest, of interest is, if you fulfill the formalities the IMCA set for you (and the standard of the MetSoc and the standard among collectors, dealers, hunters, researchers) in appraising your material. To me it seems not so. To you
Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: sharp protrusion from an iron meteorite
Hi Jason, don't make the old man tired. Please don't compare my knowledge about meteorites to Jorge's behavior. I can't compare you with Jorge, because I don't know Jorge at all. The same way like most people don't know a Jason Utas at all. And how many people will know a Jason Utas in hundred years? Have you once thought about that? And there is the big difference, between your stones and the stones who got a number. Still in hundred years, when nobody will know anymore, how and who the talented Mr.Utas jr. was, the collectors will have for their collection specimens the reference in the Bulletin and a reference mass in the once classifying institute. And that makes a difference in the collectors', the scientific and the monetary value. While your stones will have gone to nirwana, just like they never existed, cause they remained unanalyzed and unrecorded. And cause you emphasize science always so strongly. Very Practically, tell me - those, who made the destructive test with your material and those who worked on the maskelynites of your other Martians, what shall they do, if they want to publish papers about their work? They can't refer to the samples as NWA 7034 or NWA 2975 because it's not valid and incorrect. Well and if they'd write in their articles, that their research objects are said to be paired to 7034 and 2975, pers.comm. J.Utas, who visually compared them with 7034 and with photos of 2075... that would take a lot away from the weight of their results. Anyway, if you're so convinced of your meteoritic abilities, then I don't know, why you feel such an overwhelming reluctance instead to write the specimens are paired to NWA 7034, NWA 2975 in your advertising, to use the verb to pair transitively and to state: I paired the stones to NWA 7034, NWA 2975 That would be fair towards the buyers, cause they can then decide, whether a Jason is a Jorge for them or whether a Jason is just as good as a Dr.Irving regarding Martians. However, Imagine all would act like you. Everybody being self-convinced to recognize a meteorite. I take a corner of the curbstone and due to my 30+ years lasting occupation with meteorites, I decided to be expert enough and decide it to be a silica-rich ungrouped achondrite, similar to some photos I saw, or a sedimentary limestone from Neptune, and btw. because it is my birthday date, I bestow the curbstone with the name: NWA 21370 or I name it Heinz-Kevin. Want to say, in acting like you, why should anyone still let a meteorite classify? The Meteoritical Bulletin and the standards of the Meteoritical Society meteoricists of meteorite classification are then absolutely obsolete. Thank you for the allowance to bring it to the IMCA. Maybe tomorrow, have to work now. Best, Martin PS: Bad try. That I quitted IMCA had more than one reason, none of them you do know. -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jason Utas Gesendet: Freitag, 8. März 2013 02:00 An: Meteorite-list Betreff: [meteorite-list] Fwd: sharp protrusion from an iron meteorite Martin, Please don't compare my knowledge about meteorites to Jorge's behavior. Eric nailed this one on the head. I have a degree in geology insofar as I am currently taking structural geology to complete the degree. For all intents and purposes, I am as qualified as anyone with a relevant degree, having taken mineralogy, petrology, and field-mapping, the only required courses that involve mineral and rock identification. Most scientists who study meteorites, regardless of their degree, would not be qualified to visually pair any meteorites in the fashion that Adam described for his NWA 4880 specimens. I suppose you could try to hold me to the arbitrary you don't have the degree on your wall yet, but I'll have it in two months. You're just attacking me ad nauseam. I don't get it. So, what constitutes an expert in such things? Perhaps someone with fifteen years' experience with meteorites? Someone who can look at an auction like Jorge's, see the texture of the crust, and know that it's not right? Perhaps someone who has done that sort of thing several times? I know there are other folks around who could discriminate between the relevant meteorites in those situations, but...I don't know any well-known 'scientists' who could. I've put photos of one of the NWA 7034-paired fragments on facebook. Painfully obvious that it's the same stuff. If you don't think it's enough proof, by all means take it to the IMCA. If they ask me to change the wording of anything, I suppose I'll have to. Until then, please stop quoting the rules to me. You were removed due to ethics violations, remember? Or did you resign before you could get booted? I forget. Jason On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 11:39 PM, Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: Hi Jason, Uff, slowly you seem to understand, what others smarter
[meteorite-list] Massive Meteor Hits China in 1976 (Jilin Meteorite)
http://www.geekosystem.com/tigh-meteorite-hits-china/ Today in Geek History: Massive Meteor Hits China by Jeff LaSala March 8, 2013 Space debris is fascinating, fun, and sometimes scary. The meteorite pieces that rained down on Russia's Chelyabinsk region last month hit with the force of 30 atomic bombs, but these were not the largest we've seen or recovered. On this day in 1976, a meteor entered Earth's atmosphere, broke up, and erupted into a massive fireball over the outskirts of Jilin City in northern China. Around four metric tons of extraterrestrial rock - scattered radially in all directions. It must have been a fearsome event. The thunderous roar and the echoes that followed lasted 4 or 5 minutes and were heard by over a million people. The shower covered an area greater than 310 square miles. A survey team was sent out by the Chinese Academy of Science, who collected hundreds of meteorites ranging in size from 1 pound to 3,894 pounds - the latter was the largest modern meteorite we'd ever recovered. Samples from the meteorites were analyzed and identified as an H-group (olivine-bronzite) chondrite - chondrite being an accreted form of dust and grains from the depths of outer space, little tiny fragments of the young Solar System. The largest individual chunk of chondrite ever found remains the one recovered from China's 1976 meteorite shower. Not the largest piece of chondrite ever found, but chondrite nonetheless. Of course, there are larger, heavier meteorites on Earth, but the biggest among them - like Hoba, the 60-ton chunk of rock in southern Africa - hit the planet when humanity itself was still in diapers. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: March 4-8, 2013
MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES March 4-8, 2013 o Gullies (04 March 2013) http://themis.asu.edu/node/6105 o Channels (05 March 2013) http://themis.asu.edu/node/6106 o Graben (06 March 2013) http://themis.asu.edu/node/6107 o Channel (07 March 2013) http://themis.asu.edu/node/6108 o Coprates Labes (08 March 2013) http://themis.asu.edu/node/6109 All of the THEMIS images are archived here: http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University, Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Planetary Data System Releases MESSENGER Data from Third Mercury Solar Day
http://messenger.jhuapl.edu/news_room/details.php?id=236 MESSENGER Mission News March 8, 2013 Planetary Data System Releases MESSENGER Data from Third Mercury Solar Day The Planetary Data System (PDS), which archives and distributes data from all of NASA's planetary missions, today released data collected during MESSENGER's thirteenth through eighteenth month in orbit around Mercury. With this release, images and measurements are now available to the public for the third full Mercury solar day of MESSENGER orbital operations. NASA requires that all of its planetary missions archive data in the PDS, which makes available well-documented, peer-reviewed data to the research community. This ninth delivery of MESSENGER measurements includes raw and calibrated data from all seven of the mission's science instruments, plus radio science data from the spacecraft telecommunications system, from March 25 to September 17, 2012. The team has also provided, for the first time in this release, advanced products created with data collected through March 25, 2012, encompassing the first two full Mercury solar days of MESSENGER orbital operations. Those products include the first global mosaics of Mercury to be delivered to PDS. The two advanced image products in this release are an eight-color map and a higher-resolution monochrome map, says Mercury Dual Imaging System (MDIS) Instrument Scientist Nancy Chabot, of the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory (APL). They are both the products of thousands of images mosaicked together to reveal Mercury's global geology and color characteristics. These mosaics required considerable effort by many on the MESSENGER team, and we are all very proud to make these global maps available. Other advanced products include summed gamma-ray spectra and background-subtracted, geolocated neutron counts from the Gamma-Ray and Neutron Spectrometer; time-averaged magnetic field data from the Magnetometer; altimeter profiles, radiometry, and a northern hemisphere digital elevation map produced with data from the Mercury Laser Altimeter (MLA); limb tangent height and surface reflectance spectra from the Mercury Atmospheric and Surface Composition Spectrometer; pitch-angle and measured-flux distributions and energy spectra from the Energetic Particle and Plasma Spectrometer; and occultation data and spherical harmonic gravity and shape models derived from the radio science investigation and the MLA. Many in the public have been eagerly awaiting the release of the MESSENGER advanced products, and the MESSENGER team is excited to be able to provide them, says APL's Susan Ensor, MESSENGER's Science Operations Center lead. Extra analyses and processing are required to generate these products, which in many cases combine data over time and include maps, topography, and other global data. The team has also worked closely with the PDS in planning and documenting these new products to ensure their long-term usefulness to the science community. Mercury is a planet of many mysteries, adds MESSENGER Principal Investigator Sean Solomon, of Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory. With each increment of data, we have made discoveries that raised new questions. Finding answers to those questions requires further analysis. We hope that this latest release of MESSENGER data will induce more of our colleagues from the broader planetary science community to help us unravel the many stories that Mercury has yet to tell. The MESSENGER mission's ACT-REACT-QuickMap software, developed by Applied Coherent Technology Corporation, allows users to examine global mosaics constructed with high-resolution images from this and previous PDS deliveries. The tool also provides weekly updates of coverage for surface-observing instruments, as well as the status of specially targeted MDIS observations. Future enhancements to QuickMap will include simple data fusion, by which data sets from multiple elements of the payload may be combined. QuickMap can be accessed via links on the MESSENGER websites at http://messenger.jhuapl.edu/ and http://www.nasa.gov/messenger. The MDIS mosaics can be downloaded from http://messenger.jhuapl.edu/the_mission/mosaics.html. The data for this release are available online at http://pds.nasa.gov/subscription_service/SS-20130308.html, and all of the MESSENGER data archived at the PDS thus far are available at http://pds.nasa.gov. The team will submit two more data deliveries to PDS at six-month intervals from MESSENGER's extended mission. MESSENGER (MErcury Surface, Space ENvironment, GEochemistry, and Ranging) is a NASA-sponsored scientific investigation of the planet Mercury and the first space mission designed to orbit the planet closest to the Sun. The MESSENGER spacecraft launched on August 3, 2004
Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: sharp protrusion from an iron meteorite
Guys, I think the horse is way past dead on this one, let's end the thread. Thanks, Art -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Jason Utas Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2013 5:00 PM To: Meteorite-list Subject: [meteorite-list] Fwd: sharp protrusion from an iron meteorite Martin, Please don't compare my knowledge about meteorites to Jorge's behavior. Eric nailed this one on the head. I have a degree in geology insofar as I am currently taking structural geology to complete the degree. For all intents and purposes, I am as qualified as anyone with a relevant degree, having taken mineralogy, petrology, and field-mapping, the only required courses that involve mineral and rock identification. Most scientists who study meteorites, regardless of their degree, would not be qualified to visually pair any meteorites in the fashion that Adam described for his NWA 4880 specimens. I suppose you could try to hold me to the arbitrary you don't have the degree on your wall yet, but I'll have it in two months. You're just attacking me ad nauseam. I don't get it. So, what constitutes an expert in such things? Perhaps someone with fifteen years' experience with meteorites? Someone who can look at an auction like Jorge's, see the texture of the crust, and know that it's not right? Perhaps someone who has done that sort of thing several times? I know there are other folks around who could discriminate between the relevant meteorites in those situations, but...I don't know any well-known 'scientists' who could. I've put photos of one of the NWA 7034-paired fragments on facebook. Painfully obvious that it's the same stuff. If you don't think it's enough proof, by all means take it to the IMCA. If they ask me to change the wording of anything, I suppose I'll have to. Until then, please stop quoting the rules to me. You were removed due to ethics violations, remember? Or did you resign before you could get booted? I forget. Jason On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 11:39 PM, Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: Hi Jason, Uff, slowly you seem to understand, what others smarter than we both got already from the 1st posting on. I say: - Your material has a different status than NWA 2975 and NWA 7034, especially a lower collector's (and therefore monetary) value. - You present your material in a way, which makes a possible buyer believe, that they are either part of the very stone(s) to which classifiers and the Meteoritical Society designed the numbers NWA 2975 and NWA 7034, or that they were confirmed by a professional meteorite scientist to be paired to them. - As long as you don't own a degree in that field and as long they don't undergo the formal classification and acceptationprocedures of the Meteoritical Society, you're not allowed to call them formally paired to these numbers, but you have to make it unmistakably clear, that this is only your personal guess. - It is good business practice to use the same conventions, how to label and name such material, like they are established among your dealers and collectors colleagues. - The way you present and describe your material breaks the binding rules of the International Meteorite Collectors Association, to which you agreed to abide as a member. In particular those, quoty quote: If members wish to sell or trade meteoritic specimens, then those items must be 'actually and exactly what is claimed.' (Merriam-Webster-Dictionary) Our members agree to adhere to the highest standards of meteorite identification and proper labelling practices. (...) I agree that it is the sole responsibility of each member to accurately describe meteoritic material for sale, trade or other related transactions without providing any misleading or false information. and especially (...) I agree that unclassified 'meteorites' purchased on eBay or other avenues from unknown sellers might not be meteorites. I will not sell or trade any meteorites I may have found (or any questionable meteoritic material) unless I first obtain verification from a meteorite expert. And especially: Verified but unclassified material should be specified as such. Meteoritical Society guidelines will prevail in the circumstance of meteorite naming and pairing (- mean point, therefore the brackets, would be, to remind you, that for you the way that Mr. Jorge authenticated his pseudo-Chelyabinsk wasn't sufficient - but nothing else did you with your Martians, i.e. to trust your source and to inspect them personally. There is the danger for you, to loose credibility in attacking others..) And see, Especially the last point regarding the Code of Ethics of IMCA makes it so comfort for both of us, cause we don't have to discuss, whether those procedures are necessary or meaningful or which
Re: [meteorite-list] [met-list] Fwd: sharp protrusion from an iron meteorite
Except that I can't remember if we identified the protrusion. Long ago I remember someone suggesting that it might be a mineral inclusion that is differentially resistant to weathering, like silicates, or carbides, like the cohenite in this image: http://www.mindat.org/photo-8081.html But then the ID of the iron meteorite, itself, was brought into question. In recap, here is what we know: Baygorria and Uruaçu are actual iron meteorites that are compositionally similar to Campo del Cielo, but are not at all similar structurally. Uruaçu is a schreibersite-cohenite-rich IAB that is older than Campo. Uruaçu was found in Brazil; is unrelated to Baygorria (Uruguay) or Campo. Baygorria was found as a single mass (80 kg) that was cut into slices and the largest remaining mass (40kg) was donated to a university. Individual meteorites sold as 'Baygorria' are nothing more than Campo del Cielo from Argentina. These bogus whole irons need to be relabeled as Campo del Cielo. Even 'Baygorria' slices are suspect Campo unless it can be proven that provenance originated from the university or from Mr. J. Escomel, Roque Gra Seras 914, Montevideo 11300, Uruguay. Anything less would be considered self-pairing which we now know is a slippery-slope. Just my way of throwing dirt on the grave of the dead horse. Bob V. --- On Fri, 3/8/13, Art Jones art.jo...@iscs.com wrote: From: Art Jones art.jo...@iscs.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: sharp protrusion from an iron meteorite To: Jason Utas meteorite...@gmail.com, Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, altm...@meteorite-martin.de altm...@meteorite-martin.de Date: Friday, March 8, 2013, 1:34 PM Guys, I think the horse is way past dead on this one, let's end the thread. Thanks, Art ++ - Original Message - From: Randy Korotev koro...@wustl.edu To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 2:41 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] sharp protrusion from an iron meteorite I recieved a well prepared letter from a fellow with a question that I can't begin to answer. Maybe someone on the list has seen this kind of thing before. He bought a Baygorria (Iron, IAB complex) from a dealer 3 years ago. He picked it up recently to find a metal protrusion sticking out of the thing that was sharp enough to prick his thumb. Here's a jpg of his scanned photo. http://meteorites.wustl.edu/baygorria.jpg What's happened here? Randy Korotev St. Louis __ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] MI OH IL IN Fireball Meteor 08MAR2013
List, Site traffic data suggest that a meteor event just occurred over MI OH IL IN Fireball Meteor 08MAR2013. Details will be update at- http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.jp/2013/03/mi-oh-il-in-fireball-meteor-08mar2013.html Dirk Ross...Tokyo __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day
Today's Meteorite Picture of the Day: Sikhote Alin Contributed by: Paul Swartz http://www.tucsonmeteorites.com/mpod.asp __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
