Re: [meteorite-list] More California Meteorite Finds!
Ruben, Congratulations on a truly amazing couple of weeks!! Most collectors dream of finding ONE in their lifetime. It is inspiring to see what can happen when you get out there with enough knowledge to recognize a keeper when you see it. Make no mistake, it's not easy, but when preparation and circumstance meet, the face of the earth is a compound strewn field! Cheers, Norm --- Ruben Garcia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, Here's some recent California Meteorite Finds. http://www.mr-meteorite.com/californiafindspart2.htm The prior weeks finds: http://www.mr-meteorite.com/californiafindspart1.htm Ruben Garcia Ruben Garcia Phoenix, Arizona http://www.mr-meteorite.com Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] tips on transporting meteorites.
Graham, With heightened airport security, you may have trouble with carry-ons. I tried bringing a couple of good sized Campo del Cielo irons in that way. No problems in Argentina or Chile, but when I hit the USA they caused great consternation. The security screeners couldn't find anything about meteorites in their reference manuals, but they finally decided that big lumps of iron were dangerous weapons, and forced me to check them (which became my third piece of checked luggage and cost an additional $80!). Good luck! Norm http://tektitesource.com --- ensoramanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyone, We have now booked our flights to go to the Tucson show..so will be definately there. So now for a question to all you well travelled hunters and dealers. Now supposing I buy up several amazing specimens at the show :-) ...does anyone have any tips about transporting them back to the UK. Would it be best to ship themor it seems more sensible to bring them back on the plane...but what are the snags of carrying meteorites in luggage across the atlantic or within the USA...eg in stowed or hand luggage? What are the regulations? Any tips most welcomeand thanks already to all those who have helped me so far with planning my visit. Graham Ensor Near Barwell UK __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Close-up New Jersey Object
Thanks for the better picture Adam. From the random abrasions and percussion pits, it looks like a fragment from some heavy equipment part that self destructed, then got run over for a few months on a hard surface. How it came to fall out of the sky is a mystery though. Maybe it got stuck in the tire tread of an airplane--- Cheers/Happy new orbit to all Norm --- Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here is a close-up of the New Jersey object: http://themeteoritesite.com/Jersey.jpg Best Regards, Adam __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite List- Polite Request
Gary Foote, Just in case you don't get it, this is about you. You are spamming the list. Real questions? Great. Informative answers? Even better. Chit-chat? Fine, OFF list. There are over 600 of us. What if everyone posts something without content to every post? We do appreciate your enthusiasm. Don't destroy that. Mike and Mike, you are gentle souls and have been kind. Sometimes it has to be more direct. Thanks, Norm --- Mike Bandli [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have been thinking the same thing Mike, but have been hesitant to post anything with the fear of starting another flame war. It seems that some posts should not be 'Reply to all.' Not pointing fingers... just a little constructive criticism to free up the delete button. Kind regards, Mike Bandli -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Groetz Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 2:08 PM To: Meteorite List Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite List- Polite Request Hi Everyone- I don't know how the rest of you feel about it- but may I politely ask that when some of you have maybe 10 word personal responses to emails- please do not copy the entire meteorite list. I am still on dial up (can't get DSL, etc.. in my area yet) which I know is MY problem. But I wait for messages to open responding to an interesting meteorite subject only to find it is a few words between a couple list members that are irrelevent to others in the entire meteorite list. OK- I'll be quiet. I hope all of you had a good weekend and a good week coming up. Thanks for hearing me out. Take care Mike Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] First Cold find for 2007
Sonny, Waaay to go!!! Regards, Norm (http://TektiteSource.com --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, After spending about two hours of hunting I found a 34 gram fragment from an old weathered chondrite. The magnet jumped to it like a piece of steel. I spent about an hour walking around looking for the rest of the meteorite. From the looks of the fragment and surface that I was hunting it could not be too far. I decided to try the metal detector on the fragment, it was a real loud signal. Within minutes I found 4 more pieces 34,17,135 grams. All of the fragments were buried a couple inches deep. I had a loud signal about 6' from the first target. I started digging, the first 10 was hard dirt with fist sized rocks. The signal got louder and I thought it must have been a hot rock in the hole. Four more inches down under some more rocks was a 2.65lb chunk of meteorite. None of the smaller pieces fit onto the large meteorite. The chunk looks like a third of the meteorite.The fragments all look the same, my guess it is all from the same meteorite. I will have to bring a shovel and dig the hole deeper. The meteorite looks like it is a OC . The total weight so far is 3.16 lbs. The meteorite is from a new area with no previous finds in Nevada. I will post some pictures next week. Sonny Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Tucson Finds
Gang, I just posted a page on our website with pics of some of our Tucson acquisitions that will be of interest to some of you. Its biased towards tektites, but includes some NWAs and a Sikhote. Be sure to check out the little shatter cone we found in a box of NWAs. http://tektitesource.com/Tucson2007.htm There's a bit of verbiage regarding the supply-side status and pricing included. There are some very noticeable changes this year. Libyan Desert glass and Besednice moldavites were in short supply and mostly inferior quality. I saw two Aussie flanged buttons at an asking price of $2300 or $2500 each. No Billitons, Malaysians, Borneos, Ivory Coasts, Javans, Tibetans, Georgians, or Bediasites that I saw. Only a handful of Rizalites. One dealer had a couple of little Wabars and Irghizites. I saw one small lot each of Aouelloul, Darwin, and Monturaqui. Still good supplies of Indochinites. With the Moroccans, unclassified NWA stoneys were in greatly diminished abundance and general quality. I turned down one lot at $25/kg, and if they had been free I would've picked out one or two bits and left the rest! There was still some good stuff though(see pictures). One guy had three big stoneys over 25 kilos each. There were about half as many Sikhotes as last year, and bullets are now individually specimen priced. Last year I bought them by weight. I'll leave commentary regarding the fancier meteorites for those who know them better. Cheers, Norm http://TektiteSource.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] On Stretch Tektites
Ma Lan List, Stretch tektites are specimens that partly broke and bent after the skin had become brittle, but while the interior was still semi-molten and taffy-like. As commonly used, the term does not include starburst-ray skin splits even though their interpretation and significance is essentially identical. To fit common usage, a stretch tektite involves a triangular skin split associated with an equivalent angular bend in the long axis of the specimen. The material exposed within the split shows a plastic, stretched character, like pulled taffy. Nininger was first to publish on this subject, describing two bent teardrops from Vietnam. They are of special interest with respect to the debate on the origins of skin pitting in Indochinites. Nininger argued that the fact that the brittle part of the skin shows pitting, but the stretched plastic part does not (or very,very little), implies that the pitting predated the skin split. Since the skin split happened while the specimen was still mostly molten, the ornamentation disrupted by the split must have developed in the first few minutes of the tektite's journey. Conversely, the stretched part has experienced a few minutes less exposure to soil acids than the brittle skin. Say the brittle part is 780,000 years old. That's about 409,968,000,000 minutes. The stretched part is only about 409,967,999,995 minutes old. Could that difference in length of exposure to soil acids account for the observed difference in ornamentation? I would guess the total number in collections as a few dozen, but it is clear that they are more abundant than that would suggest. Cookie and I have found four good ones in the process of handling a few hundred thousand tektites, so the abundance is on the order of 1 in 100,000. I can't be sure about your specimen. In the photos I don't see a bend in the overall specimen matching the skin gaps. The gaps or saw cuts in some deeply ornamented specimens are due to ablation or terrestrial corrosion and do not involve plastic skin-splits. Unless there is an angulation in the specimen matching a triangular skin split, it is not a stretch tektite per common usage of the term. The most commonly confused tektite feature is what I call the starburst ray skin split that results from point impact while the specimen is still plastic inside. The difference is purely semantic. But ultimately, common usage dictates the definition of a word, and by this, starburst rays are not stretch tektites. There is a page on our website that discusses and illustrates stretch tektites. Cheers, Norm http://TektiteSource.com --- Email from Chinaren76 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi listees, On tektites, especially unusual tektites, for example, stretch tektites, i have several questions. 1. what's the definition of stretch tektites from the points of science? 2. How were the stretch tektites created? 3. How many are there the known stretch tektites found by meteorite/tektite collectors nowdays? In addition, i found one piece of tektite, with characteristics very similar to that of stretch-types, but i'm not sure. Please view photos from the link below: http://www.esnips.com/web/TektitefromChina 4. Is this piece a stretch one? Any tips will be deeply appreciated. Regards Miss Ma Lan Beijng, China The fish are biting. Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Hunting with a magnet; suspect stones; meteorwrongs; and ramblings.
Rockbiter list, I enjoyed your write-up. I've always viewed the magnet as a tool to test things seen by the eye rather than a collecting tool, but you've made your point well. Recently en route to Tucson, I spent a day in the Arizona desert. There are rainwater collection and dispensing systems out there for wildlife (guzzlers), and these include large concrete aprons to collect the rain. In one of these I noted a few gallons of particulates collected in a sediment trap at the bottom, so I ran a magnet through this material. In this magnetic fraction were dozens of tiny metallic to glassy spheres. It seemed to good to be true. While it WAS what I was hoping to see, it was just too easy. There had been some welding in the area building tanks and fences, so I'm concerned that some or all of these sphereoids might be particulates from the welding. Have you found such things away from civilization? Secondly, you said: How about a rock that looks like chrome when you grind off a small spot and polish it a little but it is totally not magnetic. You can't make it leave a streak, it never rusts and is very hard. I have not found but one piece of whatever it is and am glad to have that one to study even though it is not a meteorite. Believe me, I have researched this one and although I have my suspicions about it being Hematite, I still am not positive about it. For sure it is not hematite. Hematite has the most distinctive streak in the mineral kingdom (rusty vermillion red even when the hematite is bright and metallic as a silver mirror). I am confused how you collected it with a magnet if it is absolutely not attracted to a magnet. Whatever the case, there are lots of hard, silver minerals not attracted to a magnet, A good bet would be ilmenite. Cheers, Norm http://TektiteSource.com --- Michael Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been hunting meteorites with supermagnets for a little over four years now. As I am sure everyone knows, when you drag a magnet you pick up all sorts of stuff including a lot of magnetite, at least here where I hunt you do. If you're interested in this type of hunting, here is how I deal with all the metal junk, the magnetite and the small stones. I clean the magnet off into a gold pan. I then screen it all through a very fine screen to remove the magnetite particles. I dump the stuff left in the screen back into the pan and I add water with a drop of dish soap and wash. I use a swirl and dump motion to get rid of the dirt and trash only. I usually repeat this process with clean water at least a couple time until the water remains fairly clean. I pass a magnet (not a supermagnet) over the stones at about 1/2 to 3/4 above and pull out all the bits of metal and examine them somewhat closely before getting rid of those pieces. Don't want to inadvertently pick up a suspect stone and through it out with the scrap.Now to have a look at all the little stones left. I will leave just a small amount of water in the pan with the material so that I can still swirl the contents if I want. Then I take it outside in the sunlight and take my first look. If I don't see anything right away that gets my attention, I'll drain all the water off and let the contents of the pan dry completely. Usually I just leave it sit for a day or so. So when it is dry, I take the pan in and put it under my mscope and go through the contents with close scrutiny. Sometimes, I have even done this when the contents were still wet. Anyway, if I see something that sticks out as unusual and interesting, I pick it out and take a closer look. One quick way to separate the magnetic stones is to place a strong magnet on the underside of the pan then swirl the rocks for a bit over the area where the magnet is located. All the strongly magnetic rocks will collect in one spot. Then just take the magnet over them from above and lift them out. This lets you get down to taking a look at the magnetic rocks in a hurry if you so wish. I realize none of this is very scientific. It's a hobby for me and gives me something relaxing to do in my spare time and I get exercise from the walks. The thrill in it all comes when I actually have something of extraterrestrial origin to look at and hold in my hand. Then I also get a lot more enjoyment out of studying the suspect rock to find out what it could be. After you have been through about a five gallon bucket full of these pea-size rocks you have a real good feel for what is a suspect meteorite or is actually a terrestrial stone (I guess you could call some of these meteorwrongs). I have studied the many, many, many little meteorwrongs to a fairthywell. To have a good meteorwrong to study can be a good learning tool. I have a collection of small rocks that I keep
[meteorite-list] Sharing a positive
List, Just a brief note to temper recent topics. I made a deal a while back to trade for a tektite from a deep jungle location. My contact had never attempted an international shipment before, so I agreed to send my part of the trade first. Both of us were nervous whether it would make it through the mail. Finally, it did. Today I received the following: Im very happy right now because the meteorite and meteoritic glasses have been arrived this saturday. I will send the tektite and some unknown material that chapadmalal-like material. Im in hurry to send the items to you this day.. Thanks 'cause made me happy! (name) This note made me happy too, so I thought I'd pass it along. Newbies might wonder about some of the negative emotions visible on the list from time to time, but there's some heart-warming good stuff that more than makes up for it. Along that line, part of the fun of Tucson is shaking hands with people we know from the list but are meeting face to face for the first time. This is a very unique community! Thanks to all! Cheers, Norm (http://TektiteSource.com) __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] you really never know what you have, till you really look at it
Gang, It'll be fun to see who can type fastest when it is posted with a $0.01 Buy-it-now!! Regarding the fusion crust, I have been shopping for a nice Tatahouine, and I have been surprised at how many little fragments actually do have tiny patches of fusion crust. It's mostly at a hand-lens scale, but more often than not, there is a bit present. Cheers (and fast typing!) Norm http://TektiteSource.com --- Howard Steffic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Steve Great Specimen. Be sure and give us all a heads up when you put it on ebay. Thanks dude.. Howard Steffic From: steve arnold [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] you really never know what you have,till you really look at it Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 16:28:00 -0800 (PST) Good evening list.After finally taking time to really look at my new 62 gram tatahouine,I see it is covered with 50% black fusion crust.It is simply amazing.I have seen many sizes of tatahouine in the last 5 years,but NEVER have I seen a beaut with this much fusion crust.I think I got a GREAT DEAL and somehow this one just got away.I wish my camera could take real close up's of this beauty,but the one on my website will have to do for now.This piece is just amazing.Oh and please ignore the last post.That one got away from me. steve arnold Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!! Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999!! www.chicagometeorites.net Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ Mortgage rates as low as 4.625% - Refinance $150,000 loan for $579 a month. Intro*Terms http://www.NexTag.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Eastern Oregon Meteorite on Ebay
Mike all, That did look like a winner, but too bad about the crumby documentation. The seller didn't seem very interested in providing anything but platitudes. The caliche crusts were right for eastern Oregon. Cheers, Norm --- Mike Fowler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi List, Did any of you see this meteorite on ebay? 23 oz sold for $1026 to peterutas. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=200077988565 I bid, but not that much. Mike Fowler Chicago ebay--starsandrocks __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Eastern Oregon Meteorite on Ebay
Martin, For an extra thousand dollars, rocks in Arizona could crawl to Oregon! Maybe this is the beginning of a migration! Regards, Norm http://TektiteSource.com --- Martin Altmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But how did that Canyon Diablo found its way to Oregon?? Buckleboo! -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Norm Lehrman Gesendet: Samstag, 17. Februar 2007 23:11 An: Mike Fowler; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Mike Fowler Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Eastern Oregon Meteorite on Ebay Mike all, That did look like a winner, but too bad about the crumby documentation. The seller didn't seem very interested in providing anything but platitudes. The caliche crusts were right for eastern Oregon. Cheers, Norm --- Mike Fowler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi List, Did any of you see this meteorite on ebay? 23 oz sold for $1026 to peterutas. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=200077988565 I bid, but not that much. Mike Fowler Chicago ebay--starsandrocks __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] the price per gram of tatahouine
Mark list, Tatahouine is an exception to the bigger costs less per gram pattern. Due to the large crystal size in this material and the well-developed cleavages of pyroxene, Tatahouine shattered when it hit the atmosphere. Small bits dominate, biggerr pieces are rare. As a consequence, there is a sliding price scale for Tatahouine, with a premium for over 5 gms, more of a premium over 8 grams, more yet over 10, etc. The curve rises quickly! Cheers, Norm --- mark ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve, I think you'll find it usually works the other way a lower$/g for larger pieces and Higher $/g for smaller (Otherwise there would be no reason for anyone to cut rocks into smaller pieces, and that would make a main mass worth less than the total cost of the cut pieces!). Mark. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of steve arnold Sent: 27 February 2007 00:54 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] the price per gram of tatahouine Good evening list.I was wondering what is the going price of tatahouine?I heard from one dealer who said it was going for between $10 to $15 per gram.I think that would be for the pieces under 10 grams.Then I have heard as high up as $55 per gram.Of course that would be for the larger ones.I would like to know. steve Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!! Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999!! www.chicagometeorites.net Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites TV dinner still cooling? Check out Tonight's Picks on Yahoo! TV. http://tv.yahoo.com/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] HELP ! and, Who's still got their first meteorite?
Jerry, A superb and exemplary contribution to the list! A great story, informative, and exactly on-topic. The links were a great touch. Thanks and well done. I still have my first (central Nevada) find, and will be keeping it till my last rock moves on. It likely will be the last rock to go. (No small thing for a career exploration geologist with thousands of specimens!). Most of you have seen it, but for any that haven't, the story, with photos, is on our website at http://tektitesource.com/First%20Meteorite.html I may be slow. It took over 30 years in the field with a reasonably trained eye for the unusual before I plucked number one from the ground with trembling hands. Now, my best single day stands at 49 pieces (I stopped at 50, but one flunked closer inspection-). Regards, Norm --- Jerry A. Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Kevin, List, That brings to mind a fond memory. It was in the late winter of '57 and the sun was barely beginning its work day in West Texas by starting to illuminate the landscape through the cold, gray, dismal, misty, low overcast morning. I was with my mineralogical mentor on yet another trip to raid the agate beds at Marfa, Texas. I was in the seventh grade at that time, so I was probably still about 13, and an eager learner about anything mineralogical. My good friend, Mr. V. C. Wiggins (a former mayor of Odessa in the '30's) had promised me for several months that he would take me to the Odessa meteorite crater some day, and this was the day. Mr. Wiggins at that time had the one and only rock shop in Odessa and it was conveniently located only a half block from the Junior High School I attended. Needless to say, most of my brown bag lunches were eaten in his shop. Then, too, he had to push me out the door in the evenings so he could close and go home. He was a fine gentleman that I will always miss. We bounced down the narrow fence line dirt road for miles in Mr. Wiggins old '51 Buick until we finally arrived at what appeared to be a large muddy hump in the otherwise flat landscape. He parked with his headlights aimed at the geological anomaly and proudly exclaimed, That's it! I'm not sure what I was expecting, but I do recall being sorely disappointed in the sight. That's just another example of reality rarely meeting expectations. But what the heck, I was thrilled to be there. I took off at a dead run up the muddy slope, promptly slipped and found myself rolling back down the muddy slope. I'm sure Mr. Wiggins was both amused and somewhat wary at the thought of me getting back into his Buick as a mud blob. We worked that out later with old newspapers from his trunk. Once inside the floor of the crater, I was advised about more of the crater's history and given a mental picture of what I should be looking for. In the excitement of finally being there, I had forgotten to bring my rock pick or flashlight from the car. So I took off across the crater floor kicking at muddy lumps. All but one of those lumps turned out to be caliche. This one piece that wasn't caliche I took over to Mr.Wiggins for identification. It was about seven inches long by three inches wide with tapered ends. Turns out that it was indeed a part of the meteorite. A very rusty, crumbly part of the old meteorite, but it was mine. I then moved to the southern side of the crater and began clawing away at it with a broken branch of old mesquite. After sifting through the muck with my cold fingers I found a small black piece of something that obviously wasn't the prevalent caliche. Another fast run over to the expert and I got the good news that this was a keeper. I turned to resume my muckraking for more keepers but was cut short by the order to return to the Buick so we could get on with the business of the day which was to extract as much of that fine Marfa agate as humanly possible and still get back to Odessa without the expense of spending the night on the road somewhere. As was typical of our agate hunting trips, despite our best intentions of leaving the hunting area earlier so as to get home earlier, we left well after dark for the three hour trip back to Odessa. We bounced along with a trunk and rear floorboard full of the prized agate, and my two pieces of the Odessa meteorite. As usual, the headlights of the Buick were pointlessly pointed towards the stars. That always made our trips more exciting by only having a faint glow of light on the highway. So, to keep this short (HA), yes, I still have my first pieces of the fabulous Odessa meteorite. Wouldn't trade them for Mr. Arnold's new Brenham. Well, maybe the shale piece. The solid piece that I recovered weighed in at 2.1g. Never weighed the rust. I surely had one of the prized specimens that Prof. Ninninger and the earlier hunters missed. The crater is
Re: [meteorite-list] Seeking Knowledge and Dealing with Meteorwrong Owners was Classification Q
Elton and all, Well said. I too have been holding back on this subject, but I agree strongly that to send a certain meteor-wrong in to be examined by our small and over-taxed group of classifiers is unconscionable. The vision rock is a nice rock and has value as a landscape boulder. Most of the typical cost for such boulders is associated with their transport costs. I agree with Elton: why in the world would anyone assume that this rock has any value beyond that? Gary, please rethink the idea of wasting the time of any reputable lab. You are being a nice guy and are very charitable towards a scam artist. They all seem sincere. That's how their business works. It is wrong to represent such a rock as a meteorite, let alone a Martian. These guys hurt the credibility of the entire meteorite community. Deep enough, Norm http://TektiteSource.com --- E J [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Gary, Pete, List I've held back discussing this again as I am not the one on the vision quest. However, you've raised the issue of getting this classified aka lab tested--at a meteorite lab amongst other things. You think he can sell this for a sum and rebuild his failing ministry. He'll make more in bake sales. For Pete's sake...and mine , please tell us why you remain convinced that this is valuable specimen beyond a that of landscaping boulder? Interesting doesn't equate to rare and valuable. If it were, my collection would be worth millions. I also want to say I loathe going out on a limb especially working with photographs--there will always be someone near by with pruning shears and they have a long memory for when you made a bad call. Old Man's ambush of the whipper snapper: There are 3 straight up reasons not requiring lab work that show this can't be a Martian meteorite-- name one? How to Beef Up your Knowledge Base: In a nut shell, a way to improve your identification knowledge is to get out and see all the rocks you can, So when one does come up that you haven't seen before, you'll have a better basis to judge if it is rare or if it is just interesting. Additionally: read, read, read. Google is your friend. Get Norton's Cambridge Encyclopedia of Meteorites and McSween's Meteorites and their Parent Bodies Read them three times. Study your own collection, practice describing each specimen to your self. Advice from the Good Ole Boy Girl Network: As far as seeking classification(?) Trust me on this , your credibility is on the line every time you refer a specimen for meteorite identification and that credibility slips down the toilet when you send in an obvious meteorwrong. The way I see it is, you owe a duty to the astro-geologist you contact to not waste his/her time. If you do a field accessment and are unable to eliminate/ exclude an object as a meteorite, only then do you start considering recommending it to a meteorite lab and that only after you've floated it to your other colleagues for their input. If you hold yourself out as a meteorite expert then you better be able to back it up with several the reasons it is not likely a meteorite or these meteorwrong owners will eat your lunch and send you packing with your tail twixed your legs--Because you did not confirm their rock as a meteorite--They obviously know more than you do!. I re-learn the following lesson each day: You should not interfere with another's right to remain ignorant. No matter how much wishing, hoping, or praying it isn't going to turn this water into wine. No matter how sincere you believe this pastor is--his hidden agenda is to keep this dream alive until he can explain it away and face the reality that this was not a God send. I assure you it has nothing to do with mineralogy. Some churches die on the vine for good reasons! Check out Luke's Gospel?--it has been a while since I did any church preaching. I feel for you but your Dutch Uncle would likely advise you to get away from this situation as soon as you can extract yourself honoring whatever commitments you've made. Read what Randy Korotev has to say after dealing with 1000's of meteorwrong owners http://epsc.wustl.edu/admin/resources/meteorites/what_to_do.html The Quest New Hampshire isn't a large state(nor is Vermont ) and seems you would have scoured the state by now if not in person via google. Google the Chlorite mineral group (esp. Clinochlore) and the rock types greenschist , blueschist, and syenite. (See the links way below) I only have state for location, cursory description and photos(needing a reference object--coin, ruler, etc.) which you've taken down to go on. The new photo makes me go back to Actenolite-Tremolite as I can see large crystals and to me this looks like other occurrences I have seen. The flaky granules point to Clinochlore or any of several Chlorite group minerals. I think this rock is not
Re: [meteorite-list] Ebay is ripping everybody off at least once! (OT)
Johnny, Moody Blues, circa 1969: First Man: I think, I think I am, therefore I am, I think. Establishment: Of course you are my bright little star, I've miles And miles Of files Pretty files of your forefather's fruit and now to suit our great computer, You're magnetic ink. First Man: I'm more than that, I know I am, at least, I think I must be. (End quote) I always find it exhilirating when I realize that the cosmos is fiddling with the whole fabric of reality just to get at me. There's a real sense of significance in all that. And for Ebay to mess with their whole search engine just for you? What can I say? You are truly honored. Regards, Norm --- Johnny Rieben [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Darren, I just sent an email a while ago stating why ebay would do this. 1. they are protecting the limited server space for bigger sales 2. they raised store and listing fees saying it 'was costing them more in hosting than it was worth'.(a clue) 3. they are a monopoly and do not care about the little guys. Everyone thinks eBay would never turn down money but I say they wouldin exchange for BIGGER money! P.S. I do sing it...I also shout it and scream it! Regards, Johnny - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Johnny Rieben [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2006 5:21 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ebay is ripping everybody off at least once! (OT) On Sat, 29 Jul 2006 17:14:33 -0600, you wrote: guys because of 'server issues'. They arent trying to get rich off of this they are trying to protect the server space of higher paying customers! But the way to become a higher paying customer is to have more people see and bid on your auctions. Intentionally making people get low closing costs doesn't make sense in that context. amounts of money than mine. I say RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE!!! But do you sing it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qqb-D8fcFw __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites????
Michael, Nothing in your photos looks remotely suspicious. Most look to be stream-rounded quartzite pebbles. Disseminated magnetite is the likely culprit. Some of today's magnets are just too good. I've put away my big hard-drive monster that will pull nails out of fences and opted for a small telescoping neodymium magnet. Still very strong, but it produces a better contrast between meteorites and wannabes. Like Chris said in another reply to your post, with a monster magnet it is not uncommon to find areas where nearly everything gives a response. I've seen places in Arizona with nuggets of pure magnetite. One thing that will usually help is to check the streak color (rub the specimen against unglazed porcelain or give it a stroke on your diamond hone). Most of the winners will give a rust red-brown powder (and so will some losers), while magnetite will give a black streak and a lot of the common wannabes will give slate gray. Good luck, Norm (http://TektiteSource.com) --- Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm new to hunting for meteorites. I found a magnetic rock and from what I understand this could be a meteorite but I would like some input from y'all. Go to http://www.ladyofgreys.org/meteorites.htm and please let me know if there is another explanation for a rock being magnetic and so on Help is greytly appreciated. Michael The Krachen http://www.ladyofgreys.org - Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] what could this be?
Harlan all, My best guess is that it might be a fragment of petrified palm or cycad root. There is a pattern of dark circular features at the bottom edge that look like vascular tissues. Note that the analytical report pictured says 2 ppm iridium, which is to say iridium was absolutely undetectable with the technique employed, despite the seller's verbage to the contrary. I guess they are not familiar with the less than symbol. The part of the newspaper article you can see in one of the photos says that the rock is mostly white calcite. Hardly a meteorite candidate, but apparently good enough to suck in several bidders! Cheers, Norm (http://TektiteSource.com ) --- harlan trammell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemcategory=3239item=6534208368rd=1 i will be gradually switching over to yahoo mail (it has 100 FREE megs of storage). please cc to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - June 4, 2005
Guys, That look on the Nininger's faces followed the sad realization that the tektites weren't lunars after all. Imagine your expression if your coveted tablefull of lunars all turned terrestrial! Cheers, Norm (http://tektitesource.com) --- AL Mitterling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Jerry and all, Jerry, your Superman and the tektite is kirptonite! :-) --AL Jerry A. Wallace wrote: Hi Dave, You were absolutely right about there being little joy in the lives of most folks in the old days. Times were hard, living was tough. Most found their rare joys in the simple things that were free yet priceless. However, I don't think that's what's causing the sour expressions on the faces of Harvey and Addie in the photo of June 4th. Exposure to that many tektites clustered in one place can cause catastrophic sadness, illness, and dismay to a human. Although 'New Age' advocates claim miraculous healing and curative powers to be associated with these strange glass objects, actually the exact opposite is true. A friend of mine who is a teacher of geology at one of our local colleges gave me a very nice Chinese tektite several years ago. In that it was my first tektite I was fascinated by it and began studying the controversial subject as well as the object itself. I left it placed in front of my monitor when not actually handling it. Within a couple of hours of doing this I began thinking that my monitor was going bad because the images and text it displayed began appearing blurry. But then I noticed that other things that I looked at were also a bit blurry and distorted when I sat at my computer desk. Time for new glasses, I thought. My friendly, overpriced optometrist assured me that my current eyeglass prescription should work fine and that perhaps my vision problem might be caused by something else and maybe I should give it a little time to see if would clear up on its own. If my vision didn't improve in a week or two I should go to an opthamologist he could recommend for further tests. Thank you and that'll be $75.00, said he. About the same thing as an MD saying, Take two aspirin and call me in the morning. We'll send a bill. A couple of days after that, I decided to put the tektite in a labeled collection box and move it to a back room where I store most of my meteorite collection. Within hours of doing that my eyesight began improving when reading my monitor or books and papers. Whatever the problem had been it now appeared to have passed. I was thankful. There was no recurrence of the problem so I put it out of my mind. A couple of months later there was to be a rare meeting of several of the local meteorite enthusiasts at a coffee shop. On perusing my collection for the show-and-tell I decided to take a couple of my latest Texas acquisitions and, almost as an afterthought, I slipped the beautiful tektite specimen that my friend had given me into my pocket, the four and one-half inch tubular Wangdong. At the gathering, while having my second cup of coffee, I began feeling distinctly nauseous, so much so, in fact, that I regretfully excused myself and drove immediately home. Once home, I only wanted to lie down for awhile until I felt better. After about thirty minutes of misery, I went to the bathroom to wash my face. I noticed several things had fallen: my arches, some of my hair, and it seemed that some of my teeth were about to fall out as well. While leaning over the sink counter to get a closer look in the mirror at my considerably bloodshot eyes, I felt the Wangdong tektite in my pocket that I had forgotten to remove. Not wanting any harm to befall it, I took it and the Texas specimens and replaced them in their boxes in the back room. On the way back I felt the need to lie down again. After an hour or so of some (finally) restful sleep, I awakened feeling considerably better. I went back to the bathroom to again check my eyes. They looked much better though still having some streaked veins. The nausea had mostly passed and my color had returned pretty much to normal from the hideous shade of green that I had been colored earlier. I sat in my darkened, cool living room reflecting on the disastrous evening. I thought back to the meeting at the coffee house and regretted not being able to show the other collectors my new Texas specimens and especially my outstanding Wangdong tektite. Tektite. TEKTITE! Wait a minute. I suddenly made the association between my ill feelings and that TEKTITE. Every time I had been in close proximity with that tektite for any real length of time that's when I was having my problems. Could that truly be the answer? To be honest I'm not certain. But I haven't yet worked up the necessary bravery
Re: [meteorite-list] What is It?
Dave, In a career working frequently with basalts, I've never seen megascopic free metal. I also have never heard of the same. Basalts are, by nature, iron rich, but for all practical purposes, most of the iron is present in silicate phases. This thing isn't a basalt. I don't have any better ideas. I think it might be what the seller claims it to be Norm (http://tektitesource.com) --- Dave Freeman mjwy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe that a week ago we determined this to be a crackpot. Iron rich olivine basalt is my blind guess at what it may be. I have some somewhere. DF [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello List, Anyone checked this out in person? Any idea what it is? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemcategory=3239item=6538683982rd=1 -Larry __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] What is It?
Slow down Dave, I didn't say it is a winner; I just don't know what it is. I can't seem to get the picture back up (I think the auction has been cancelled), but it looked to me like all the phases were very coarsely crystalline. In this case, metal or no metal, it couldn't be a basalt (which is by definition aphanitic except for possible phenocrysts). With slower crystallization, you can get gabbros and other coarsely crystalline ultramafics with segregated sulfides, but once again, the rapid crystallization leading to basalt formation has little chance to segregate anything beyond micro-blebs of sulfide. I can't believe it could be a basalt. Norm (http://tektitesource.com) --- Dave Freeman mjwy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Geeze Norm, I better buy it! I see 420 others have seen the auction and no one has bid yet. I have seen olivine basalt's with free iron flakes . and larger courtesy: Wind River glacial till, and yes they do look like meteorites but one highly respected meteorite person noted mine was not meteorite but an interesting wrong! Won't discuss my career here but I have 15 years of Rocky Mountain geology experience in the field.long before I discovered meteorites were cool. Look closely at the pictures, these are flakes and may not even be iron, or even metal for that matter. Olivine flakes will lay like that sometimes even, comes from very slow igneous cooling. This rock could even be metamorphic in origin for all we know. . Back about 1999 one of my iron specked olivine basalt's went to Bob Haag and from him, bypassed his discard pile and was sent over to ASU for a second look before determination of a very rich iron-olivine basalt. Tell me that if this was really a meteorite that the seller with a feed back of 75% and only sold three Canyon Diablo' s is a meteorite expert. I go with a real meteorite and a real person going to a real meteorite dealer and phony going with phony and going to eBay. Doh, Dave pebble-pup. Norm Lehrman wrote: Dave, In a career working frequently with basalts, I've never seen megascopic free metal. I also have never heard of the same. Basalts are, by nature, iron rich, but for all practical purposes, most of the iron is present in silicate phases. This thing isn't a basalt. I don't have any better ideas. I think it might be what the seller claims it to be Norm (http://tektitesource.com) --- Dave Freeman mjwy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I believe that a week ago we determined this to be a crackpot. Iron rich olivine basalt is my blind guess at what it may be. I have some somewhere. DF [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello List, Anyone checked this out in person? Any idea what it is? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemcategory=3239item=6538683982rd=1 -Larry __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] libyan desert glass
Pete, Thanks for the heads up on this guy. He has been trying to seduce me (off list) with offers to sell the same material now listed on ebay for very reasonable prices. Something spooked me though---the prices were a bit too good and he was a bit too persistent. With nothing more than a gut feeling that something wasn't right, I declined the deal. As always, buyer beware out there. If it's too good to be true---you know how it goes. Buy from those you know and trust. Cheers, Norm (http://TektiteSource.com) --- Dippl Family [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Further to the previous post. This seller (abusalem1) has about 20 items up at the moment most of which were pulled by ebay for the shill bidding or were won by this gentleman with his own shill bids. He used 3 buyer ids to push the bids up to a couple of bucks above the current bids and then followed up the auction with private after sale offers. Fortunately in my case anyway no money changed hands and in fact he would not even acknowledge my requests for a total after the event but only came back with requests for a higher offer.The other legit buyer did send money but did end up getting most of it back. Cheers Pete __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] xenolithic breccia's?
All, Maybe someone can elucidate on the terms specifically as they are used in meteorites, but in geology polymict implies varied clast composition (poly = many), while xenolith (= foreign rock), implies clasts from an external source. Cheers, Norm (http://tektitesource.com) --- Walter Branch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What is the difference between a polymict breccia and xenolithic breccia? -Walter Branch - - Original Message - From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: met list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 9:06 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] xenolithic breccia's? On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 17:28:34 -0700, Tom Knudson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello good people of the list!!! Sure is slow today!!! So, what is a xenolithic breccia? What meteorites are considered a xenolithic breccia? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenolith http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breccia On Google, I only find Ghubara, but that can't be the only one. One of my favorites was just mentioned a few days back-- NWA 3119 http://www.meteorites.com.au/features/nwa3119.html and my much more modest piece http://webpages.charter.net/garrison6328/nwa3119_both.jpg __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Next vacation: Rajasthan.
Steve #1, Now that's fine post. Thoughtful. Educational. Keep 'em coming. Cheers, Norm (http://TektiteSource.com) --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How many errors can we find in this story? 10? 15? 20? Let's count them: * Clue to life in Thar meteorite rain Sandipan Sharma jaipur, july 9 Geologists in Rajasthan are baffled by large meteorites falling on western Rajasthan at regular intervals over the past few years. ** Error #1 large meteorites what is their definition of large? Error #2 regular intervals ** Scientists struggling to identify the cause of this celestial shower, * Error #3 not knowing the cause? Error #4 a 10 year long shower have found the presence of amino acids and other life-supporting organic compounds in the meteorites, which has led to an interesting hypothesis: Life could have originated outside earth. *** Error #5 lead to an interesting hypothesis as if no one else thought of this before. Since 1995, at least 10 meteorites have fallen on various villages in western Rajasthan. The number could be more as many such incidents go unreported. This is strange. Generally, chances of a meteorite falling in an area is once in 2000 years, says Prof B S Paliwal, head, Department of Geology, Jodhpur University. *** Error #6 once in 2000 years how big is Rajasthan? If it were only 3 miles by 3 miles, but isn't it about the size of Texas? Also, the meteorites usually fall around the equator. *** Error#7 usually fall around the equator LOL, who is writing this stuff? The regular fall in Thar is thus unexplained. * Error #8 regular fall Error #9 Unexplained OK, maybe no one the reporter talked with is smart enough to explain it to him. * The first such fall was reported in 1994. * Error #10 The 1984 BMNH Catalogue shows 12 falls from Rajasthan. * The meteorites usually fall between April-July. Perhaps this is the time when these bodies come into earths sphere of attraction Error #11 meteorites are not attracted they either run into Earth or Earth runs into them (or both) * and fall on this region because of its position at that time. * Error #12 While maybe that is someone's theory but it is still in error. ** This is a theory that needs to be analysed, ** Error #13 Really, it does NOT need to be analyzed. ** says Dr M S Sisodia, a geologist at Jodhpur University, who has been studying the phenomenon. *** Error #14 Trust me, he hasn't been studying the phenomenon all that much. *** It may sound funny *** TRUE FACT #1: Yes, this article does sound funny! *** but there are possibilities that life may have originated on some other planet like Mars, *** Error #15 The theory (as pointed out by MexicoDoug) points out that the theory is not all that funny. *** says Dr Sisodia, who presented a paper on the subject at NASA. ** Would someone find the paper that the esteemed Dr. Sisodia presented at NASA? I would like to know what all it said. I would also like to know how much NASA grant money this researcher made on this project? Steve Arnold #1 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Moldavite
Jeff and list, I have been sent some identical material from a source (? the same ??) in Hong Kong for examination. What I saw, which was virtually identical to this, is melted bottle glass. Cheers, Norm (http://TektiteSource.com) --- Jeff Kuyken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Doesn't look quite right to me but maybe it's just the photo. Opinions? http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=6546741201 Cheers, Jeff __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Amazing Australite!
List, I finally got around to posting pics of one of the coolest Australites in our collection. I call it the Rosetta Core, as it provides fantastic insight into thermal ablation core formation. Enjoy! Here's the link: http://tektitesource.com/Australite%20cores.htm Cheers, Norm http://tektitesource.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Moldavite Update
All, I have access to a PIMA (portable infrared mineral analyzer). These operate on spectral reflectance in the SWIR spectrum (1300-2500 nanometers). There are excellent water absorption features in this range. I'm sure I've run tektites before, but never in direct comparison with volcanic and man-made glasses. I'll do this next time I'm back in the office and report back. I do still have one of the chinese bottle-glass pseudotektites somewhere if I can find it-- Regards, Norm http://TektiteSource.com --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings Doug and List There may be a non-destructive test that isn't as costly as a microprobe for tektites. XRF was used by the Geology Archaeology departments at WWU to check a flake (known artifact) against normally prepard XRF samples for composition similarities (for tracing the source outcropping of the material that flake was made of). This proved to be a viable alternative to destructive testing of artifacts, as long as exact results were not required and a relatively flat surface could be presented to the XRF and the sample would fit into the recepticle. It was thought that XRD would also work as well, given the same restrictions. Many universities would have these devices, as opposed to those that have microprobes. And it would be a matter of setting up a database with known trace elements/minerals and look for the same in the XRD or XRF results. Just a thought. Mark Ferguson On July 21, 8:55 pm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John G. wrote: Since moldavites are made basically of the same material as green pop bottles, checking the refractive index of a faceted stone wouldn't turn up anything suspicious...looking for new technology to tell the difference between the fakes and the real stones. Hola John, List, Not as easy as looking at a Shirokovsky 'pallasite', either, where just one fake is well known. This seems a lot scarier than getting a synthetic diamond in place of a real one since an appreciation of history is what makes the glass authentic for the owner, like a winning game ball, and for the sake of science a confidence in it being of tektite origin necessary for future ability to study composition of a real sample is at stake. In the case of tektites, unless you have the ability to make non-destructive measurements with expensive microprobes, I guess the technique of choice will need to hinge on the difference tektites have over man-made glasses: low water content. Water has major IR absorbance peaks at 3550, 3425, 3295, 1630 and 1455 /cm. An appropriately set IR analyzer at one or more of these frequencies ought to be able to able to make a positive identification vs. other glasses (and confirming your refractive index wouldn't hurt at all). While I've never done these types of IR measurements in glasses, it would seem that all you just need to watch out for would be humidity, and to know your sample path length reasonably. Other tests would rely more on variable criteria depending on recognizing characteristics of the fake, sometimes easy, but sometime not. Tektites should yield about 0.001% to 0.03% water, with moldavites a very typical 0.01% (100 ppm). I don't know what % water recast glass from coke bottles, etc., but I am guessing it would be much higher unless great pressures and long times in the casting furnace were used. Anyone know the solubility of water in glass at melt conditions? I'm guessing - 10 - 100 times that amount? Saludos, Doug (where the neighborhood streets are still a grid of rivers, in the aftermath of the fight between Emily and our mountains. Emily lost decisively as her Eye passed 80 km south.) It is refreshing to see water under the USD 50,000,000 bridge we just built over the otherwise dry riverbed. The collosal bridge is a copy of the one in Rotterdam for our inland city nicknamed City of Mountains nestled in the Sierra Madre:). __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Heating moldavites and tektite look-alikes
All, Most of you will remember, but there may be some new members on the list that did not participate in the last round of How do you recognize a real tektite? list discussions. A sysnopsis of the results is posted on my website, including pics of a heated Arizonaite provided by Jim Tobin (this one did foam--). http://tektitesource.com/Tektite_tests.html Regards, Norm http://TektiteSource.com --- JKGwilliam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Many of use did a lot of speculating about these Arizonaites or Grahamites that were found in Eastern Arizona. Both Jim Kriegh and John Blennert told me the same story that Bernd just related here. I believe they even tried heating the test specimens with a torch to see what specimens would froth and which ones wouldn't. I figured that they were Apache Tears since we were within 50 miles of an area that is known worldwide for it's Apache Tear deposits. JKGwilliam At 12:57 PM 7/21/2005, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: AL wrote: Someone mentioned one time of putting tektites in a microwave oven for a bit (on high) to try to determine if it is an Earth based specimen or a possible tektite ... Hello AL, Doug, Norm, and List, Back in the year 2000, Jim Kriegh experimented with Apache tears and those tektite look-alikes from Arizona that I chose to simply call Arizonaites (there are 18 of these in my collection which I got from Jim and Twink). Here is what Jim wrote: ... Thought there is something you should know about the Arizona 'whatevers'. I had a chemist friend (he also has studied geology) heat one of them in an oven along with an Apache tear. The Apache tear foamed as the water started coming out of it. The Arizonaite showed no signs of water. He even raised the temperature another 500 degrees F above what the Apache tear started foaming and all the Arizonaite did was glow red. After cooling it looked the same as before. I am going to test some more to see if any moisture shows up. Dr. Kring decided to look at some after I told him about no moisture in them but he said he still thinks they must be volcanic in source. This should also be applicable to real, genuine tektites and moldavites, and those man-made glasses we are talking about. but, please, be careful in case anyone should try (safety goggles, etc.!) Best wishes, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Moldavite Update
List, A final note on this auction: I contacted the seller, Gao Fu Development Ltd, (who had several other fakes listed in his ebay store). He was glad for the heads-up and has removed all the items. He said he had purchased them from a new dealer in Hong Kong, and was already suspicious that they might not be authentic. It's always nice to find an honest seller. Not everyone responds so graciously. This guy is okay. Cheers, Norm (http://TektiteSource.com) --- Jeff Kuyken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: G'day Folks, Some of you will remember the questionable Moldavite auction mentioned earlier in the week. Well after speaking with mineral dealer today I discovered that it may be what is being termed as 1st Generation Moldavite fakes coming mainly from China. The scary thing is that there is now apparently a Gen 2 which are very difficult to pick from the real thing (although someone with a lot of Moldavite experience may not have so much trouble.) And to top it all off, the Gen 2's are now also being faceted into stones which are virtually impossible to tell from the real thing. Caveat Emptor. Cheers, Jeff __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ad; Superb new shipment of Besednice moldavites posted
List, Either my email died or it has gone really quiet out there--- Against all odds, I just got one of our best shipments of QUALITY Besednice hogs ever. This is old stock directly out of the Czech Republic. We found hardly any of this quality at Tucson, and no more are being mined. Have a look: http://tektitesource.com/Besednice%20Moldavites.html Cheers, Norm http://TektiteSource.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Q: Good Source for Plastic Display Stands?
John list, Try http://www.amlap.com/alw/page4.html for starters. Regards, Norm http://TektiteSource.com --- Arizona Skies Meteorites [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all...does anyone know of a good website for plastic display stands? Thanks in advance! -John Arizona Skies Meteorites __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Apologies
Tracy, No problems here. I was glad to be reminded of the fine word pulchritudinous. Webster says having or marked by physical comeliness. Without question that is an appropriate word for the meteorite community's use, hence, not OT. There should be a special category for pulchritudinous meteorites. But, you were right. Doug wasn't looking at rocks. (Thanks Doug for the dreams. We all wish we were there!) (I'm talking about the beach, and ocean, and food and shells and butterflies and rocks---) Garcias, Norm http://tektitesource.com --- tracy latimer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I appear to have spammed the list with what I intended to be a non-public message for Doug. Sorry to all concerned. Tracy Latimer __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] OT: HOW MANY PLANETS?
Doug, Sterling, and all you other amazing brains, (Deity or planetary name of your choice), it's good to to listen to you guys with IQs in the clouds. Some people do word-searches or crosswords to exercize their brains. For some of us, it's the MetList. Thanks (and Garcias to you, Doug---) Norm http://tektitesource.com --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ron B. wrote: Incidently, if you demote Pluto from being a planet, then the definition for a planet becomes much easier. If you include Pluto as a planet, then the definition is going to get more complicated. Complicated it can be, not dumbed down, with or without Pluto. Arbitrary numerical criteria are useless to science in the long run whether they be 9 units, 20 degrees or 3025 miles. They are more like taxing authorities saying...if you own more than 20% of the company's stock, you must make special declarations. That is a foolish angle for the IAU to put itself in, and more typical of the thinking of mediocre government employees or bureacrats looking to reduce their workloads (not that we aren't all guilty at times). My personal thoughts of a planet rely on a permanent atmosphere or proven or potential geological process (major igneous activity, liberally considered) basis and prime orbit about the Sun. If Earth suddenly was catapulted into a 25 degree inclination ...would it cease being a planet? Perhaps my definition even excludes Pluto by not for a senseless inclination cutoff, especially after its hypothetical encounter with Neptune sent it there, or perhaps not. Vesta is always as bright or brighter than Neptune, and occasionally trumps Uranus, so something is out of wack here...the ancients would have called Vesta a wanderer if they didn't carelessly overlook documenting it. (It owes that brightness to 'geo'logical processes, namely the reflectivity of eucrite.) If Earth were catapulted into the Kuiper Belt would it cease being a planet? Wait until an Earth sized ball is found out there...How about Differentiated Planets, Gaseous Planets, and Frozen Planets to replace the inner and outer planets? Remember - for minor planets, a comet for all practical purposes becomes an asteroid - but it is still a minor planet, under current use... Kids can still memorize the Inner, Gaseous and Pluto (because Pluto is sometimes closer than Neptune, a very very important criterion from an earthly viewpoint of numbering successively the billiard balls starting with the bright white cue, and all you have to do is say the first 9 planets out..) Saludos, Doug __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Mars event
All, I've been getting calls on this. Newspapers are reporting that Mars will appear as large as the moon! Note that the story Bob forwarded says: ((At a modest 75-power magnification )) Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. That first part is pretty important. The moon appears about a half degree, or 1800 arc seconds wide, and Mars is typically closer to 12 arc seconds. At best during the coming period, Mars will reach about 25.1 arc seconds. Use a 75X scope and you get 25.1 X 75 = 1882.5; i.e., under 75 power magnification, Mars will look about the naked eye size of the moon. Mars will NOT look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Cheers, Norm http://TektiteSource.com --- Bob Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Watch for Mars next month. The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next, Earth is catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in the closest approach between the two planets in recorded history. The next time Mars may come this close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter's gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only be certain that Mars has not come this close to Earth in the Last 5,000 years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years before it happens again. The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to within 34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the brightest object in the night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and will appear 25.11 arc seconds wide. At a modest 75-power magnification Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars will be easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east at 10p.m. and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m. By the end of August when the two planets are closest, Mars will rise at nightfall and reach its highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m.That's pretty convenient to see something that no human being has seen in recorded history. So, mark your calendar at the beginning of August to see Mars grow progressively brighter and brighter throughout the month. Share this with your children and grandchildren. NO ONE ALIVE TODAY WILL EVER SEE THIS AGAIN __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] persieds meteors
All, It is important to understand that the Persieds are quite different from the Perseids. There are two accepted meanings. Some hold that the persi- is derived from persifler (to banter, i.e, good- natured and usually witty animated discourse) + eds, obviously a contracted form of educational system. Others argue that, in this context, it must come from the Latin per (thoroughly)+sistere (to take a stand) + D's(with reference to the common ABCD grading system). Hence, Persieds becomes thoroughly founded on solid Ds. Just in case any were confused, Norm --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve A. (Elgin, IL) wrote: Hello list and good evening.Do not forget,next friday the 12th,is the annual persied meteor swarm.It will be able to be seen in the constellation of pegasus.Best viewing will be on the 12th,but viewing will also be possible a day before the 12th,and a couple of days after.I like to get the old binoculars and look at those old shooting stars.It usually is quite the view. Thanks Ron and Steve for the heads up. I am not sure what Steve (Elgin, IL) means about the shower of Tears of Saint Lawrence being seen in Pegasus, though this is true and may be a nice view, these are the Perseids, of course, and no constellation negotiated an exclusive... Pegasus was born from Neptune's foamy seed and the blood of Medusa, who used to be an object of Poseidon's (Neptune) desire until they made love in Athena's temple, defiling it and involking Athena's wrath. When Perseus had decapitated her as a sort of labor (Perseus was a grandfather of Hercules), and was then able to mount the flying horse to free sacrificial Andromeda, the daughter of the Vain!y Boastfu! African Queen Cassiopeia, Perseus and Pegasus are different constellations and there is little need to be constellation saavy if you casually want to join the fun. The Great Square of Pegasus will probably be the most recognizable asterism two or three dozen degrees (1/6 of the visible sky) above the radiant of the shower in Perseus (between the very bright star Capella and Mars), and if you pick the right diagonal it will point there, but then again, so will the meteors! Taurus, Pisces, Cygnus (the bright cross also points to Perseus), and Draco, Aries, Andromeda, and Cassiopeia (the obvious W) as well as the rest of the sky ought to be good as well. Queen Cassiopeia's W, near the radiant, Capella and Mars form a triangle around Perseus. I wouldn't recommend binoculars unless they were of the Cetus-eye variety (whale-eye lenses)...or after you've had your own eyeful of the natural feel. The Perseids are the kind of meteors that are impressive by the unaided, alert, scanning and darting eye, if you can just find a nice, reasonably dark spot! These are bright, fast meteors, and only someone with Cowboy Charlie Brown would have the reflexes to grab the binocs and catch a meteor he first located with his eye. Some nice nights ahead, now's the time to get a date with a companion or two, to share in the fun... Saludos, Doug __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] In Memoriam Darryl Futrell
Bernd and all, As you may know, I am acting as an agent for the Futrell family in finding a new home for Darryl's tektite collection. I am periodically in contact with his daughter Kathy Lee, and have forwarded your email to her. I am sure it will mean a lot to the family to know that, while gone, he's not forgotten. If any of the others of you have memories or thoughts you would like forwarded, send them to me on or off list as you see appropriate. Regards, Norm (http://TektiteSource.com) --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday, August 13, 2001, our esteemed list member and tektite expert, D a r r y l F u t r e l l passed away after years of suffering But his love for tektites, and his enjoyment of this list kept him going for over a year and a half as he suffered many things, wrote his daughter Kathy Lee Barrio to our list on Wednesday, August 15. I still miss him sorely, Bernd Excerpts from the Montebello News, Vol. 70, No. 112, Sunday, March 3, 1985: He follows science's rocky road to moon (by Mary Ann Bolyea) When he was 6, Darryl Futrell had a dream. He was walking down the southside of Whittier Boulevard east of Goodrich, past what was then a giant vacant lot when he saw the page of a newspaper blowing along the ground. He stooped to pick it up, and it began putting him toward the moon, and the moon kept getting bigger and bigger and ... He woke up. Could the nightmare have been prophetic? Did it indicate even then that Futrell's future would revolve around newspapers and the moon? Certainly, in a sense, that's what happened. .. he's been intent on verifying a theory that is moon-focused: he wants to help prove that tektites - natural glass stones that are found in some geographical areas, but nowhere else - come from silicic volcanic eruptions on the moon. If you're not into geology like Futrell, the tektite question probably doesn't seem too earth-shaking, but in the scientific world it's a controversy that has been the subject of several books, more than 1,000 dissertations (Futrell owns 500 of these), theses and many barbs. With many, it's become an emotional issue, Futrell said, just like a fanatic attachment to a certain make of automobile and their disdain for all others. Now, Futrell is not an official member of the world of geology. He holds no degree, he is not a professor, but he is an acknowledged expert on the subject of tektites, and owner of one of the top five or 10 tektite collections in the world. Anybody can hand you a bagful of tektites, but Darryl's first rate. He's an intelligent and fascinating person. When he gives you specimens they are carefully labeled and tell you what to look for. He's read and understands the literature. I saw him at a meeting at Alfred University in 1983 at which he showed his specimens and it was a very impressive presentation. His collection is better than anything the Smithsonian has. A lot of people, including myself, owe a lot to Futrell. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] meteorite lands near Mt. Fuji Japan
Dirk, Do you think the meteor had anything to do with the three month local time regression? Best regards, Norm (http://TektiteSource.com) --- drtanuki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: List, At 8:05pm local time on May 19, about 9 minutes ago, I observed a meteorite entering the atmosphere and the luminescence ended at about 10,000 feet. It appeared to have terminated in the area of Mt. Fuji. Dirk Ross..Tokyo Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Advice please; new AZ meteorite classification
List, I just checked on the status of the new Arizona meteorite I sent to Alan Rubin for classification about 6 months ago. He never received it. Lost in the mail! It breaks my heart to cut off another 25 gm slice to start over again. Your counsel please. I planned to sell the specimen, whole or in slices after classification. Should I get it classified with a further loss of mass, or just sell it right now, as is??? Pictures and details at: http://tektitesource.com/New%20AZ%20meteorite.htm Thanks for your thoughts, Norm (http://tektitesource.com) __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] From the Admin - update on List Policies
Art, As the juvenile stuff ebbs and flows, I have been continuously impressed by your apparent restraint. It is impossible to step into the middle of every dogfight. Many (most?) would get sick and tired of the mental drain involved when people expect a referee to step in and chastise others for every perceived infraction. Maybe there's action off-list that I don't see, but that's also the proper place. These restated policies are clear, logical, reasonable, concise, and simple. Bravo! Thanks for making this community. Behind all the noise and mud-slinging, there are hundreds of us that simply enjoy the education and the contact with others who share our interests and passions. Keep on doing what you do so well. With full support and best regards, Norm (http://TektiteSource.com) P.S., feel free to contact me when you're headed for Nevada. I'll share a sun-glazed playa with you anytime I can. --- Art [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good Evening; Here are the latest updates of the List policies (note # 7 regarding frequency of advertisement posts) : 1. All posts should be related to meteorites in some way. 2. All posts should be courteous and professional (profanity will result in removal). 3. Do NOT post private messages or personal attacks to the list. 4. Include a relevant -subject- in the subject field of the email on all posts. 5. Do NOT send HTML or Rich Text formatted emails; only TEXT will be posted. 6. Do NOT send emails with files attached (include a web link to the file). 7. Advertisement posts should be limited to once a week - per member. 8. All Advertisement posts should have the word AD in the subject of the email. Your support of these policies will lead to the continued success of this interesting and positive forum environment, thank you! Art Jones - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Meteorite Mailing List Admin __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] From the Admin - update on List Policies,part 2
Sorry. I know this was sort of a #3(private message), but I'm willing to bet I speak for a whole bunch of us on the list, so it's not all that private. Blurtheline! --- Norm Lehrman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Art, As the juvenile stuff ebbs and flows, I have been continuously impressed by your apparent restraint. It is impossible to step into the middle of every dogfight. Many (most?) would get sick and tired of the mental drain involved when people expect a referee to step in and chastise others for every perceived infraction. Maybe there's action off-list that I don't see, but that's also the proper place. These restated policies are clear, logical, reasonable, concise, and simple. Bravo! Thanks for making this community. Behind all the noise and mud-slinging, there are hundreds of us that simply enjoy the education and the contact with others who share our interests and passions. Keep on doing what you do so well. With full support and best regards, Norm (http://TektiteSource.com) P.S., feel free to contact me when you're headed for Nevada. I'll share a sun-glazed playa with you anytime I can. --- Art [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good Evening; Here are the latest updates of the List policies (note # 7 regarding frequency of advertisement posts) : 1. All posts should be related to meteorites in some way. 2. All posts should be courteous and professional (profanity will result in removal). 3. Do NOT post private messages or personal attacks to the list. 4. Include a relevant -subject- in the subject field of the email on all posts. 5. Do NOT send HTML or Rich Text formatted emails; only TEXT will be posted. 6. Do NOT send emails with files attached (include a web link to the file). 7. Advertisement posts should be limited to once a week - per member. 8. All Advertisement posts should have the word AD in the subject of the email. Your support of these policies will lead to the continued success of this interesting and positive forum environment, thank you! Art Jones - [EMAIL PROTECTED] Meteorite Mailing List Admin __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Siena on Ebay: a record
Rob, A yes! but this have re-start to broken to me with no sense... I concur with your comments with this provisio, I think--- Norm --- Rob Wesel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: mo sense lose words with a person that it does not reason I concur Rob Wesel http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com -- We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of the dreams. Willy Wonka, 1971 - Original Message - From: M come Meteorite Meteorites [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2005 9:11 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Siena on Ebay: a record 3. Do NOT post private messages or personal attacks to the list. a yes yes I have understandFarmer its untouchablethe Holy.Probably you not have see Jones, I have stoped to attack Farmer in the list many time ago - mo sense lose words with a person that it does not reason -, but this have re-start to broken to me with no sense...its the time to give a regulated to the boiling spirits of Farmer Matteo --- Elton Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: M come Meteorite Meteorites wrote: I ask to the moderator of the list to take off Farmer from the list, he attack without not any motive the persons - and here in this message its visible! Rolling on the floor laughing my a$$ off (ROFLMAO) ! This from the person who was banned and bragged about having so many list subscriptions and pen names they he could never be effectively banned? How can you tell when Matteo is whinning? His mouth is moving and/or he is emailing the meteorite central list. Mike made a good point Matteo--if you go back and look at the archives of your posts they fall into 5 categories Whine about Ebay (40%) Whine about High Prices (2%) Whine about low prices(4%) Whine about the list (33%) Brags about your adds, sales, finds, collection, or acquisitions(19%) Always followed by a whinne! Try to get control of yout attitude and your reality. There is mnore to life then meteorites. Most Sincerely, Elton M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.it Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info MSN Messanger: spacerocks at hotmail.com EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/ ___ Yahoo! Messenger: chiamate gratuite in tutto il mondo http://it.beta.messenger.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Orbicular granite and chondrites
Anne, There's not much chance for confusion. Orbicular granite, especially like the West Aussie stuff that Kevin may have seen, typically has orbs no smaller than about 4 cm, and sometimes much bigger. Pretty big chondrules! Cheers, Norm http://tektitesource.com --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 9/10/2005 6:15:08 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Kevin Forbes wrote: Hi list, has anyone ever seen orbicular granite? yes it is a popular dimension stone for construction Is the formation of this material related to the formation of chondritic meteorites in any way? NOPE--can't even stretch a connection as to similar formation. Chondrules apparently formed molecule by molecule out of primordial, proto-solar-disk soup flash melted by really huge lightening bolts Orbicular granite is a partial remelt of older granitoid material -- Elton __ But could one (orbicular granite) be mistaken for the other (chondritic meteorites)? It could explain some meteorwrongs. Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] President, I.M.C.A. Inc. www.IMCA.cc __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 1848: light produced when meteorite sawn - possible or impossible?
Chris list, Possible or impossible? Possible. Quite a few minerals can emit light on being crushed or scratched. This is termed triboluminescence. Additionally, some minerals can emit light when heated to temperatures still well below red heat. This is thermoluminescence. I don't know the composition of this particular stone, but if it has some non-metallic minerals, the action of the saw might cause light emission. --- chris aubeck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ohio | Sandusky | The Sandusky Clarion | 1848-01-25 A REMARKABLE AEROLITE. On the 14th July last, a remarkable aerolite fell at Brannan, at Bohemia. Two fragments were found, one weighing fifteen, the other twenty-one kilogrammes. The aeorilite [sic] appeared to proceed, as is very often the case, from a small black cloud. The smaller fragment fell upon a house, pierced the roof, struck a beam which caused it lo deviate slightly from its course, passed through a ceiling composed of white clay and straw, and entered a room where several persons were assembled, but fortunately, noone was hurt. A circumstance worthy of remark was, that the straw of the ceiling traversed by the meteor was not in the least carbonized: it only appeared of a brighter yellow, with semi-metalic lustre; pieces of straw even adhering to the stone, presented no trace of carbonization. A fragment has been analysed by M. Fischer, of Breslau, who found in it, besides sulphuretted iron, carbon, phosphorus and bromine. In sawing the mass, globules were inflamed by the friction of the teeth of the saw, and a bright light produced. Literary Gazette. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] 1848: light produced when meteorite sawn - possible or...
Anne all, The types of luminescence that I described are restricted to non-metallics. One thing I've wondered: what sort of saws would they have used in the olden days? Probably soft iron plus a particulate abrasive. It wouldn't be too hard to frictionally heat a cut to red heat if inadequate lubrication was employed. They probably also used an abrasive inferior to diamond, which would've contributed to heat accumulation. Cheers, Norm (http://tektitesource.com) --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Norm, Chris and List, Looking on the Calendar of Falls, I found this one: Braunau: Fell July 14, 1847 at 3:45am, near Trutnov, Bohemia, Czech Republic. 2 masses, 22kg and 17kg, and it is an hexahedrite. Could cutting an iron create light? Anne M. Black _www.IMPACTIKA.com_ (http://www.IMPACTIKA.com) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) President, I.M.C.A. Inc. _www.IMCA.cc_ (http://www.IMCA.cc) In a message dated 9/12/2005 6:41:14 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Chris list, Possible or impossible? Possible. Quite a few minerals can emit light on being crushed or scratched. This is termed triboluminescence. Additionally, some minerals can emit light when heated to temperatures still well below red heat. This is thermoluminescence. I don't know the composition of this particular stone, but if it has some non-metallic minerals, the action of the saw might cause light emission. --- chris aubeck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ohio | Sandusky | The Sandusky Clarion | 1848-01-25 A REMARKABLE AEROLITE. On the 14th July last, a remarkable aerolite fell at Brannan, at Bohemia. Two fragments were found, one weighing fifteen, the other twenty-one kilogrammes. The aeorilite [sic] appeared to proceed, as is very often the case, from a small black cloud. The smaller fragment fell upon a house, pierced the roof, struck a beam which caused it lo deviate slightly from its course, passed through a ceiling composed of white clay and straw, and entered a room where several persons were assembled, but fortunately, noone was hurt. A circumstance worthy of remark was, that the straw of the ceiling traversed by the meteor was not in the least carbonized: it only appeared of a brighter yellow, with semi-metalic lustre; pieces of straw even adhering to the stone, presented no trace of carbonization. A fragment has been analysed by M. Fischer, of Breslau, who found in it, besides sulphuretted iron, carbon, phosphorus and bromine. In sawing the mass, globules were inflamed by the friction of the teeth of the saw, and a bright light produced. Literary Gazette. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Opinion - Purple in a Meteorite
Pete, I don't know if it's been reported in meteorites, but if this was earth material, my first guess would be vivianite, a hydrous iron phosphate. It can look exactly like that (and is often photosensitive: with exposure to sunlight it will darken and often turn dark green). Maybe someone on the list knows or can check their references regarding vivianite in meteorites. Cheers, Norm (http://tektitesource.com) --- Pete Pete [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, all, I've mentioned before that my interest in meteorites is new, and have just started collecting. I've enjoyed buying quantities of (very affordable) Unclassified NWA's from some fellow list members, then cutting, polishing, and spending hours looking at them through my recently acquired stereoscope microscope. A whole new appreciation for chondrules when they're in 3-D! Getting to the point; one stone I recently cut, and polished down to a 400 grit wet sand cloth, then examined through the microscope, revealed that one metallic area (troilite?) has a cavity, and in the cavity is a very vibrant purple to navy blue substance. http://pskills.onfinite.com/album/185698/628054/ http://pskills.onfinite.com/album/185698/628055/ The only information I've turned up on the internet thus far indicates that sodium chloride in meteorites is purple and blue, but it's been found just in the matrix. Is it more likely that this substance is some type of oxide that formed in a manner similar to a geode? I can't imagine salt forming or surviving inside a metallic area like this. I have some more close-up pics in hi-res , if required. Cheers, Pete __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Very small Majuba impact site discovered!
All, I couldn't resist playing off the fantastic Franconia announcement. Hats of to Asher, Baird, and Ortega! While trying to replicate their luck at the Majuba, Nevada find area, I recovered what I think may go down in history as the smallest Majuba granule likely to ever be recovered. With a maximum dimension of about 4 mm and a weight of about 0.5 gms, this one is really, really small. Story and photos at: http://tektitesource.com/Majuba5.htm Cheers, Norm http://TektiteSource.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] More on Brenham Story
Steve all, I've always wondered whether the old meteorite farm was truly farmed out! You went the next step beyond just wondering. Congratulations. H.H.N. is looking down with a huge smile on his face, probably the biggest since he left us. Now, you absolutely MUST follow Nininger's footsteps into the next footprint: this monumental discovery has to be written up blow by blow as Harvey would've written it! We're all waiting. Way to go! Norm (http://TektiteSource.com) --- drtanuki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve and List, Steve congratulations on your super catch. How did you locate the meteorite? What type of metal detector were you using or were you using something else? Will you have a video CD on the excavation process? I hope so. This is a find of a lifetime and it and you will go down in the meteorite history books!!! Best to you and All, Dirk Ross...Tokyo --- Notkin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings All: Well it's been a long, tiring, and exciting day. I offered to help Steve handle the P.R. related to his find, so there have been a lot of calls from TV stations and newspapers, and a lot of running around today for me, and even more so for Steve. I just spoke with him. He got back to his motel room and was able to read all your emails. I'm sure your congratulations meant a lot to him, and I certainly enjoyed them. It's great to be able to share this with friends and fellow enthusiasts. I received many private emails today from List members, and I apologize for not answering them yet. I have been on the phone all day with CNN, ABC, and multiple newspapers. One request from Steve: anyone around the country who happens to see a news story about the big Brenham, would you please email the details to me (Geoff) off-List. We're trying to keep track of which cities have aired the piece. I now have the okay to say that I was up in Brenham with Steve for five days while many of you were at the Munich show, though I was not allowed to say anything to anyone until now. You can imagine how difficult that was! I got to hang out with the big rock in person, and we zoomed all over the strewn field on Steve's ATV and had many adventures. Our good friend Dr. Art Ehlmann of the Monnig Gallery also visited the strewn field and the big pallasite. It is definitely oriented, but you cannot really tell from the first batch of photos, as you're seeing the trailing end. In Greensburg, KS, there is a charming little museum with Stockwell's 1,000 lb Brenham on display. The front of the museum proudly displays a hand painted sign with shooting star and states that it is home to THE WORLD'S LARGEST PALLASITE. We just couldn't resist. Steve made up a little handwritten sign that said 2nd and held it up in front of Largest. Got photos, will share. Thanks to everyone who wrote emails of support to Steve. More news when we have it. Regards to all, Geoff N. Brenham photos: http://www.aerolite.org/brenham.htm __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] oriented vs orientated
Neil, In the USA, it's oriented. Cheers, Norm http://tektitesource.com --- Neil Caliva [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyone I'm new but have been watching for a month or so. Which way is right for meteorites oriented or orientated? _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Warning: ebay Moldavite faceting rough and associated gems
List, Sorry if I'm boring you, but this is driving me nuts! The moldavite faceting rough that is constantly listed on ebay, so gorgeously apple green but devoid of normal moldavite skin character IS NOT REAL. I can only presume that the faceted gems offered by the same sellers are also man-made glass. Please don't support these scam artists. There are real faceted moldavites out there. I can only suggest that you look for IMCA credentials. If in doubt, I will always offer an opinion (for what it's worth---) Norm, C.G.S. (cumo gran salis) http://tektitesource.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] BBC Radio 4 - In Our Time - Asteroids (051103)
Matt, Thanks for that link! It was well worth the time. Any of you that haven't listened, give it a shot. Every Christmas season, the Geological Society of Nevada looks for presentations that might be of general interest to kids and spouses as well as the geos in the family. I have been making the rounds year after year to the different chapters telling of the hidden meteorite rush to the remote dry lakes of this state. I always take meteorite bits that kids (only!) can buy for as little as 25 cents. (We bring a selection of top end stuff as well---). Last year we sold over $1000 in less than an hour, and turned on a whole new wave of enthusiasts. This audio presentation gave me some great new bits and pieces. Any of you that do the same sort of thing will find some new inspirations here. Thanks again, Matt. We are here for this sort of communication, not for the feces-slingers who pre-emt us from time to time. Cheers, Norm http://TektiteSource.com --- Matthew Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi list... 'BBC Radio 4 - In Our Time - Asteroids - Celestial Bodies from the Beginning of Time' This aired on BBC Radio 4 in the UK on 3rd November, but I only came across it earlier this week and a quick check back suggests it wasn't mentioned on the list at the time (apologies if it has, and I failed to spot it). I'm sure it'd be of interest to quite a few of you, although it barely scrapes the proverbial surface of the topic it did keep me listening for 43 minutes. Among the contributors is Monica Grady. Melvyn Bragg does make a comment about only briefly talking about meteorites, even though Dr Grady has a couple of samples in the studio. The particularly good news is that it's still available to 'listen again' from a link on the shows page at: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/inourtime_20051103.shtml Enjoy this relatively on-topic and flame free post! Matt. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Dimethylglyoxime source?
All knowing list, A while back I visited Mike Martinez in Chile. He had some dimethylglyoxime nickel test papers (like pH or litmus strips). You hit the suspect iron with a bit of acid, neutralize it with ammonia, and touch a test strip to it to get a yes/no on nickel. Does anybody know of a source for these test strips? Thanks, Norm Lehrman (http://TektiteSource.com) P.S., Stay tuned! I found 6 nice Nevada stonys Monday and I'm headed back out tomorrow. I'm betting on 20 or 30 more! Full story coming--- __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Still glowing---32 Nevada finds this week!
List, I had a meteorite talk to give this past Wednesday about the remarkable new meteorite finds in Nevada, and I wanted to be able to say we've already found X more this week, so Monday I took a newbie out and we found eleven in about 5 hours. That felt so good we went back out today and found 21 more! This is not a new find, but proof that it's always worth going back to the old ones one more time. The science is even more cool. I have coordinates for 23 previous finds. Plotted together with ours, these form a tight strewn field about 0.8 miles long and 0.4 miles wide. The tight scatter suggests a low final explosion, and as would then be predicted, most of the fragments have sharply angular faces and no secondary fusion crust. A small percentage of the pieces have remnants of the primary crust. It is a squeeeky clean story, and I'll write it up in detail when and if the previous finders share any additional info there might be. As an interesting aside, I was all focused on fusion crusts and sensuous rounded shoulders and was finding nothing. My neophyte buddy was checking every pebble with a magnet, and predictably, he found the first two. I started using the magnet more liberally and quickly caught up. Before long, both of us had our eye tuned to the beautiful mahogany browns (and sharp angularity!) and then started really making progress. This story is going to raise another interesting issue. The 8 pieces that have been classified from this tiny scatter have gotten L6, H4, H5, and H6 designations. How much variability can you get from a single fall (when working with 10 gm fragments)? This little patch is not likely composed of multiple falls. Has this matter been addressed before? Still glowing, Norm (http://tektitesource.com) __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Newbie needs help identifying a meteorite(?)
Ron, Just an afterthought. (I think I failed to include the list in my previous response, but it said, in short, that this absolutely does NOT sound like a meteorite (or tektite, in reference to another reply). But, what about a fulgurite??? These are never metallic, but the metallic silica compound description is broad enought to include lechatelierite, And the sand grains fused to the exterior fit just fine. Does it have a hollow glassy interior? As for the charred zone around it, I have never seen such a thing in lightning-struck soils, but I have seen essentially those exact dimensions in solid rock on Ayers Rock, Australia. Cheers, Norm http://tektitesource.com --- Ron Kaye [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: About 30 years ago, I found a piece of metallic rock deeply embedded in hard-packed earth out in the woods, with the ground around it charred to a radius of about 18. Having extensive experience in foundry science, I could ascertain that the item had been in a semi-plastic state upon impact, with sand embedded in the face, and gas bubbles trailing along the outer surface to a tapered rear edge. I have had several geologists look at it, and none could identify it, except to determine that it was non-ferrous and had no nickel alloys. Finally, a metallurgist analyzed a small piece, and told me it was a metallic silica compound. This was surprising, since at that time, there were only a few places in the world with the capability of creating such a compound, and none anywhere East Texas, where I found it. And no explanation could be offered as to how it would come to be embedded in the ground with the perimeter charred. I have a couple of high-resolution scans of it, which I will either e-mail or post if anyone is interested in seeing it. The story behind my finding it is pretty interesting, which has played a significant role in my keeping the piece all these years. I won't belabor the list with the story, as it has little to do with meteorites, beyond my activities leading up to the discovery. If anyone on the list would be willing to help me determine just what the thing is, please ping me privately. Thanks in advance for any assistance, or just for listening. Ron Kaye __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Gary K. Foote and a little Esquel
Dana, Your first paragraph is VERY well worded. Many of us feel the same. Amen. I can't comment on bikers, but you guys and your machines should work okay on our dry lakes--- Watch out for soft spots. As for the circumstances of your Esquel search, sorry. What a nice thought. I'd like that--- Thanks for the good words, Norm http://tektitesource.com --- Dana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Howdy, howdy... Welcome to the list. First off just let me tell you I have been following this list for about two years and I still have questions compiled upon questions when it comes to this hobby. Some people on the list have little or no sense of humor, some seem to only post to pick fights with others on the list, and then there is this rare small percent of the group that are truly here to help others learn about this hobby/trade (depending on what angle your playing) and they are really great guys... wonderful to know and loads to brain pick from. Guess what I am saying to ya is take the BS petty fights with a grain of salt because the friendships and knowledge make it worthwhile is what I have found thru the years. Try to make it to Tucson if you can! Everyone is always willing to talk turkey there and seem to have lots of time on their hands to do so once they get settled in. Its a good time to learn lots and find great deals. Secondly, always love to have another biker to chuckle with on the list... I ride an 87' Heritage Harley myself. Third, anyone got a nice small Esquel they are looking to get rid of? I am looking for 4 grams or less. I am wanting to have it to use in a tombstone setting for a very special friend who is about to pass away. Thanks! ~Dana Hawn Louisville, IL __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Exogenic Fulgurites
List, A guy came in today with a flat of shiny black glass that looks identical to Wabar or Irghizite impactites. It has been studied and published, and was spewn from a monster fulgurite tube! Most dealers, curators, academics, and collectors are bombarded with stuff like this. I didn't believe the story when I heard it, but it's for real. This is the first described example of this and is the designated type locality. There has to be more somewhere. I've posted the reference info and a pic here: http://tektitesource.com/Exogenic%20Fulgurites.htm I'm now faced with a dilemma. Tucson is coming. We're hoarding our cash. But this is totally unique stuff. They want a lot for it. What would you do Thanks, Norm (http://tektitesource.com) __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New Monthly Favourite Happy New Year
Jeff, Thanks for the shift in focus! That is one amazing iron. I've never seen anything vaguely resembling those textures! Nice. Norm http://tektitesource.com (and still sitting by the computer waiting for a reply to my counter-offer on the exogenic fulgurites) --- Jeff Kuyken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: G'day folks, Let's kick off the New Year with the funkiest little piece of iron I've seen! www.meteorites.com.au/favourite.html Happy New Year, Jeff Kuyken Meteorites Australia www.meteorites.com.au __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Rock in your Pocket?
Gary list, Nice thread. My pockets have been full of rocks since childhood, and the space rock thing hasn't improved matters. I typically carry a nice crusted NWA chondrite and a little Sikhote or Canyon Diablo (today it was the latter). Being a tektite guy, I usually carry a nice little Indochinite teardrop or dumbell as well. It's pretty much inevitable that ANY conversation involving one or more meteorite freaks will get around to the key topic, so one must be prepared. I think this is another thing directly traceable to Harvey Nininger, who commonly passed meteorites around bars or any other gatherings he could find. As WE are the result, it's wholly appropriate that we should be packin' as well! Cheers, Norm http://TektiteSource.com P.S., As most would've guessed, I let the moths out of my wallet and bought the lot of Exogenic Fulgurites. They should be on our website by Monday night or Tuesday. Check in. The chance will be short and sweet--- --- Gary K. Foote [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you carry a meteorite in your pocket regularly? If yes, what is your favorite piece to carry? Gary http://www.meteorite-dealers.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ad Exogenic Fulgurites now posted and going fast
List, I went ahead and bought the Exogenic Fulgurites I wrote about a couple of weeks ago and they are now posted on the TektiteSource website. You'll need to move fast if you are interested. I gave those who asked to be placed on a waiting list first chance, and about half of the specimens are gone. For any who missed the previous discussion, Exogenic Fulgurites are glass that literally sprayed out of a world class soil fulgurite with branches up to 3 meters long. The glass spray formed droplets, threads, and spatters that accumulated around the soil fulgurite crater. Some glass threads were found draped over the local sagebrush. This material is significant to meteorite enthusiasts in that it very strongly resembles Wabar glass and Irghizites. If this glass was found in the geologic record, it could easily be confused with impactite. This is the first published occurrence of lightning-related vitreous ejecta, a whole new way to generate glass spatters. My material is from the published type locality. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ad Exogenic Fulgurites now posted and going fast
List, I went ahead and bought the Exogenic Fulgurites I wrote about a couple of weeks ago and they are now posted on the TektiteSource website ( http://tektitesource.com/Exogenic%20Fulgurites.htm ) . You'll need to move fast if you are interested. I gave those who expressed interest to my earlier post first chance, and about half of the specimens are gone. For any who missed the previous discussion, Exogenic Fulgurites are glass that literally sprayed out of a world class soil fulgurite with branches up to 3 meters long. The glass spray formed droplets, threads, and spatters that accumulated around the soil fulgurite crater. Some glass threads were found draped over the local sagebrush. This material is significant to meteorite enthusiasts in that it very strongly resembles Wabar glass and Irghizites. If this glass was found in the geologic record, it could easily be confused with impactite. This is the first published occurrence of lightning-related vitreous ejecta, a whole new way to generate glass spatters. My material is from the published type locality. Be sure and have a look at it. It is amazing shiny tar-black glass with a slight carnival glass patina and some very aesthetic sculptural forms. Cheers, Norm (http://TektiteSource.com) __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] G�ran Lindfors again!!
Tom, I got it as well. He forgot to take his meds. He does this everytime he forgets. For the record, the first name is Urine. Forward his spam back to him. If we all do that everytime, we can at least stuff his mailbox. He won't quit with a polite request. I've tried that. Cheers, Norm http://tektitesource.com --- Tom Teters [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 01:35 AM 1/11/2006 +0100, you wrote: send him back his 1mb email x20 I've been the recipient of his fruitcake images, being new...what's the deal? ?.?. TomT __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] NASA's Comet Tale Draws to a Successful Close in Utah Desert
Fantastic! If you haven't been to the NASA website yet, go there! There's streaming video replays of Stardust's re-entry and recovery, great interviews, particularly with Brownlee. I found it all really emotional Congrats to all involved, Norm Http://TektiteSource.com P.S., notice how much the recovery capsule looks like an Australite core in profile? No accident. --- Ron Baalke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: MEDIA RELATIONS OFFICE JET PROPULSION LABORATORY CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION PASADENA, CALIF. 91109 TELEPHONE (818) 354-5011 http://www.jpl.nasa.gov D.C. Agle (818) 354-5011 Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. Erica Hupp/Merrilee Fellows (202) 358-1237/(818) 393-0754 NASA Headquarters, Washington 2006-009 NASA's Comet Tale Draws to a Successful Close in Utah Desert January 15, 2006 NASA's Stardust sample return mission returned safely to Earth when the capsule carrying cometary and interstellar particles successfully touched down at 2:10 a.m. Pacific time (3:10 a.m. Mountain time) in the desert salt flats of the U.S. Air Force Utah Test and Training Range. Ten years of planning and seven years of flight operations were realized early this morning when we successfully picked up our return capsule off of the desert floor in Utah, said Tom Duxbury, Stardust project manager at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. The Stardust project has delivered to the international science community material that has been unaltered since the formation of our solar system. Stardust released its sample return capsule at 9:57 p.m. Pacific time (10:57 p.m. Mountain time) last night. The capsule entered the atmosphere four hours later at 1:57 a.m. Pacific time (2:57 a.m. Mountain time). The drogue and main parachutes deployed at 2:00 and 2:05 a.m. Pacific time, respectively (3:00 and 3:05 a.m. Mountain time). I have been waiting for this day since the early 1980s when Deputy Principal Investigator Dr. Peter Tsou of JPL and I designed a mission to collect comet dust, said Dr. Don Brownlee, Stardust principal investigator from the University of Washington, Seattle. To see the capsule safely back on its home planet is a thrilling accomplishment. The sample return capsule's science canister and its cargo of comet and interstellar dust particles will be stowed inside a special aluminum carrying case to await transfer to the Johnson Space Center, Houston, where it will be opened. NASA's Stardust mission traveled 2.88 billion miles during its seven-year round-trip odyssey. Scientists believe these precious samples will help provide answers to fundamental questions about comets and the origins of the solar system. NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif., manages the Stardust mission for NASA's Science Mission Directorate, Washington. Lockheed Martin Space Systems, Denver, developed and operated the spacecraft. For information about the Stardust mission on the Web, visit www.nasa.gov/stardust . For information about NASA and agency programs on the Web, visit http://www.nasa.gov/home . __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Niningers Birthday
Keith list, Thanks for that. We all wouldn't be here talking to each other without Harvey. What a legacy! Truly a man with a passion. cheers, Norm http://TektiteSource.com --- Arizona Keith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello All I just like to say, today was Harvey Nininger Birthday 1-17-1887 A day I like to remember. Thanks for your time Keith Chandler AZ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Re: Dronino Steve Schoner's meteorite anti-rust treatment.
Mike list, I haven't seen any responses come through on this and it's a bit of meteorite lore that many might find occasion to need. I don't know anything about the Schoner post you mentioned, but last year I had a chance to go to Argentina and acquire some Campos directly from the family who's estancia includes part of the strewn field. They have recovered more than a tonne from the family garden plot! This is an extreme case, and for lesser rust you can be less aggressive. The pieces I got were very rusty. The locals coached me on cleaning them, and this approach worked very well. 1) pound all the scaly areas with a hammer. It sounds brutal, but you won't be able to mark the solid metal (remember the Tucson ring/anvil!). Only the scaling rust will flake off, and you need to get rid of it. I used my geologist's pick. The pointy end works well for getting into regmaglypts. Spend some energy at this stage. I was stuck in a field camp in the high Andes, so I pounded on my meteorites every evening for a couple of weeks. Rust everywhere! This is an outside job. 2) Immerse it in a strong sodium hydroxide solution for as long as it takes. Two weeks is common, a month is not uncommon. You will see an amazing amount of rust flakes spall off and fall to the bottom. After a couple of weeks transfer the iron to another pail and decant the lye solution onto it. When stuff quits falling off, you're done. You will lose some mass, but this story is about a real rust bucket, and anything that will come off by this process needs to come off. 3) Rinse it well. I used water, and I really think it's okay at this stage. Anything that was porous or cracked will have come off in steps 1 or 2. You need to get rid of the lye. You can deal with the water in step 4. 4) Immerse in anhydrous isopropyl alcohol for about a week. 5) Air dry, then dry in the oven under low heat, oven door cracked open for an hour or so. 6) While it's still warm (but no longer hot) treat with a rust inhibitor. The Argentines suggested simple mineral oil, which I used with fine results. A thread on the metlist a year or so ago recommended Paraloid dissolved in acetone (used for conservation of archaeological materials). Type B72 for irons, B42 for stones. Hope this helps someone out there. Cheers, Norm, squirrely as a first-grader on the day before Christmas!!! Heading for Tucson the day after tomorrow--- (http://TektiteSource.com) --- Mike Fowler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (Don't know if this made it thru the other day) Hi List, Went to my local hardware store to buy Red Devil Lye, but couldn't find any so I bought some (where else!) on ebay. I will be trying it out on some smaller irons that show some rust, including at least one Dronino. I was curious about Steve Schoner's 150 lb Campo mentioned in the post from November, 2003. Was the treatment successful, and what are the details? How long etc? I have one 13 lb Campo that could use a little help after I practice an a couple 100 gram slices first. Mike Fowler Chicago Bob King's post regarding Dronino: Hello Bernd, Marcin and all, I, too have had problems with Dronino until I used Steve Schoner's NaOH method. I left my slice in solution in a jar for two weeks. Every so often I'd pick up the jar and swirl the contents around to keep the chemicals mixed and monitor the process . The solution gradually became as dark as maple syrup as rust was dissolved. Then I removed the slice, washed it in distilled water (the lye makes the pieces very slippery.) and baked it in the oven for an hour at around 200 degrees. I still keep my Dronino with dessicant but I have not seen a speck of rust since this treatment. Marcin, you asked about dissolving the lye. I fill the jar halfway with regular isopropyl alcohol (off-the-shelf drugstore variety) which contains water. Then I add about 5 tablespoons of lye (Red Devil brand here in the U.S.) and stir and stir. It takes a while for the lye to dissolve in the alcohol. While this is happening you get an interesting exothermic chemical reaction and the jar warms up. Anyway, this is the only thing that's worked for really stubborn irons. Best to all, Bob Post from Steve Schoner, November 2003 s.gif By popular request, and a huge amount of e-mails regarding it, I post it now and for as long as the internet exists at: http://www.geocities.com/american_meteorite_survey/naoh.htm You can post it anywhere, share it, distribute it widely, and do so with the intent of preserving stubborn rusting meteorites that would otherwise snap crackle and pop as they flake away on the shelves, keeping one awake at night in the never ending cycle of terrestrialization. This anti-rusting process will help slow that down so that we can enjoy our specimens a bit longer. Currently I am soaking a
Re: [meteorite-list] Harvey Awards - New Catagory
That's a big Yes from here! Norm --- Greg Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear List Members, A month or two ago I posted to the list that I felt that Steve Arnold - IMB and Phil Mani should be nominated for a Harvey Award for their Huge Brenham Main Mass discovery and also Geoff Notkin for his tireless work on behalf of the Hurricane Katrina Fund Raiser among other too-numerous to list meteorite-related activities. I know that Geoff and Steve originally set up the Harvey Awards where they could not nominate themselves for an award. I would like all list members to join me here on the list to nominate these fine gentleman for a Harvey Award an encourage them to make a new category where they could receive an award if enough of us voted YES to this. Maybe they could create a People's Choice award or something along these lines. Everyone in favor, send the list a resounding YES and lets acknowledge their contributions and achievements in public. Consider this my YES vote... Best regards, Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) [EMAIL PROTECTED] IMCA 3163 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Our best Tucson find: an amazingly oriented Sikhote!
List, We just got back from Tucson. What a place. We overheard a little 5 year old tell his mom: I get it! If you make more money you can buy more rocks!---which about sums it all up. I wanted to share some pics of a remarkable little Sikhote we found. The best find of the show for us, and we found a lot of fine stuff! http://tektitesource.com/Sikhote-Alin%20Meteorites.htm Enjoy! Norm (http://TektiteSource.com) __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Our best Tucson find: an amazingly oriented Sikhote!
List, We just got back from Tucson. What a place. We overheard a little 5 year old tell his mom: I get it! If you make more money you can buy more rocks!---which about sums it all up. I wanted to share some pics of a remarkable little Sikhote we found. The best find of the show for us, and we found a lot of fine stuff! http://tektitesource.com/Sikhote-Alin%20Meteorites.htm Enjoy! Norm (http://TektiteSource.com) __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Airport Security, Brenham, and Hammerheads (funny?)
Martin list, I had a related experience a couple of years ago. I acquired a couple of 7 kg Campos in Buenos Aires, and not wanting to push my checked bags over the weight limits, I wrapped the meteorites in bubble wrap and packed them in a heavy-duty carry-on. I then flew to Chile, no problems. Then a couple of domestic legs in Chile, no problems. Then Santiago to Dallas, no problems. But it all ended in Dallas. They unpacked them at security, passed them around, called in a supervisor, and decided that they constituted lethal weapons. Apparently they've had a lot of problems with bad guys beating people up with big iron meteorites. I had to check them, but since I already had my full allowance of checked luggage, the meteorites were over-limit and cost me $80 for the final leg of the trip home! Cheers, Norm (http://TektiteSource.com) --- Martin Horejsi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, I had a funny thing happen as I was flying out from Tucson Sunday evening. Apparently one of the items banned from carry-on luggage is a hammer. I usually don't carry one with me when I fly so I was unaware of this restriction. However, I do agree with the TSA in their decision. You know, Maxwell and all. Anyway, it happened that I bought a hammerhead from Steve Arnold of Brenham Meteorite fame. The hammerhead was one of the non-meteorite artifacts that Steve extracted from the rich Kansas soil in his quest for rocks from space. Since I was saving my money for the Lang and Blood auctions, I passed on Steve's Brenham main mass and instead bought the hammerhead. Plus I figured, it would be easier to fly home with given the picky check-in clerks who weigh everything. So when my hammerhead lit up the airport x-ray machine, the frown on the security guy was enough to tell me that maybe these TSA folks in Tucson had not seen it all. I helped agent locate the hammer amongst other interesting objects including some large cactus pedals with extremely small and sharp spines courtesy to a visit to Geoff N's home. The agent unwrapped the hammer and studied it. Being who I am, I launched into an educational presentation about Steve Arnold, about the Brenham meteorite and about its amazing discovery. I would have used a PowerPoint on the nice white walls of the security hall, but the x-ray machines had used up all the electrical outlets. As I tried to explain the significance of the hammerhead, the agent, let's call him Mr. Deer-in-the-headlights, stared at me likely assessing my mental profile. He had never heard of the famous meteorite, Steve Arnold, nor it appears, meteorites in general. Lucky, the passengers surrounding me had, and were excited about it as they pelted me with questions straining see the hammerhead! The glaze over Mr. Dith's eyes lifted, and he referred my case to the head of security. It was at that moment that I played my trump card. When I bought the hammerhead from Steve, he wrote up a Certificate of Authenticity which I produced for the head security agent. This particular agent sat a desk and studied the hammer and the COA. After a minute or two, he pronounced the hammerhead not a hammer since there was no handle. Instead, it was a historic artifact and perfectly acceptable as a carry-on. I thanked him kindly, and wished I had given him one of Steve's postcards as a gift. So, should anyone be flying out of Tucson post this reading, and departing from one of the lower numbered gates, if you could leave a copy of Steve's fabulous postcard on the security desk, I would appreciate it. Here is a link to the hammer and COA. http://www.geocities.com/planetwhy/brenhamhammer.jpg Cheers, Martin __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Strange two-tone rock on Mars
Mark and all, This really is a cool image. Thanks for bringing it to our attention. I'm guessing you might appreciate a serious reply or two. On earth, this is immediately reminiscent of a weathered lahar fragment. Volcanic mudflows involving big blocks in an ashy matrix are almost universal in the sorts of volcanic environments for which Mars holds all the solar system records. Add some wind ablation to sculpt both the block and the matrix, and this image depicts the result. This scenario would benefit from some liquid (water?) but could be seen in a dry pyroclastic ash flow. There are other possibilities, but this seem an obvious first guess for Mars. Regards, Norm (http://TektiteSource.com) --- MARK BOSTICK [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap060126.html Hello all, I didn't see this posted, but with Tucson and all, forgive me if it slipped by my screen unnoticed. Any thoughts? Clear Skies, Mark Bostick www.meteoritearticles.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Friday Photo Fun and Scale Cubes
Greg, I'll bite. That is one stupendous photo, not for a minute forgetting the memories of the chance at Tucson to fondle that sweet beauty! How did you make that pic? I'm totally sure I'm not the only one who wants to know. Verrry nice. Best regards, Norm (http://TektiteSource.com) --- Greg Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear List Members, Thank you all who replied about the only three scale cubes I had available. They are all spoken for. Wish I had more to share. Speaking of scale cubes, Check out this photo I took this afternoon using the new photo studio I built today. I learned a new technique recently. Nice cube, eh! http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa3163/nwa3163a.jpg Best regards, Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) [EMAIL PROTECTED] IMCA 3163 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Re: Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 26, Issue 30
Sterling, I too got drawn into tektites by the mystery. They often tell their individual stories plainly, but we still can't get the big picture out of them! One comment on your comments though. Tektites (australites) ARE very often emu gizzard stones. In the dry lakes where they are most abundant there are typically only two rock types surviving. Sharply angular little bits of quartz shattered by halite growth and the relatively smooth and conspicuous little australites. The latter are selectively picked by the emus. The aboriginees always check the gizzards of emus taken hunting for australites---and I always checked emus killed on the roadways! That theory is not a theory. Best regards, Norm http://TektiteSource.com --- Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve, List, It's why I love tektites, as a puzzle. Every theory explains some features; no theory explains all the features of those little devils. I regard them as still a wide open mystery, the only scientific mystery still going strong after more than 200 years of hypothesis. (The first tektite theory was published in 1788, long before the first scientific theory of meteorites, which had not even been accepted as real yet.) I keep a table of all the theories of tektites, ancient and modern, and I have 39 listed, including the one that assays that they are the gizzard stones of emus! There are several lunar theories. Nininger (at one time) believed them to be Lunaites, or ejecta from lunar meteoroid impact. Chapman suggested that they were the material that makes up the bright rays that a few young lunar craters display, ejected all the way to the Earth, thinking this would account for their terrestrial distribution pattern (it doesn't). Lunar vulcanism of the ordinary volcanic variety has been suggested several times, the last time by John O'Keefe, who refined it to a suggestion of deep hydrogen volcanoes with hypersonic hot gas plumes, before moving on to another theory. I am not, BTW, denigrating O'Keefe for changing theories in mid-stream. O'Keefe put forward FIVE theories by my count, which gives him more theories than any one else on my list. He spent his not inconsiderable talents on the problem, but all the theory buckets have holes in them and leak like crazy, not just his, but all of them. Today, we have the impact consensus theory, which is actually not a consensus at all, because every impact theorist of note has a tektite impact origin theory of his own which is not compatible with any other impact theorist's tektite theory! But it's called a consensus because the real consensus is that there is no point in wasting any more time on tektites. We've done them to death, performed every test; it's time to move on and just accept the least whacky answer by (unspoken) default. Don't get me started; I wrote that post chewing over the impact theories a long time ago... I even have a pet theory of my own (I call him Bruno and feed him regularly) that manages to explain a lot of tektite puzzles that the other 39 theories don't, but --- guess what? My pet theory has different but glaringly obvious flaws all its own, so it's DOA, just like all the other tektite theories. They're a paradox. They're a problem. They're like the jigsaw that seems to going so well until somebody holds up a piece you'd forgotten about and innocently says, Where's this go? Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: Steve Schoner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 2:41 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 26, Issue 30 As Sterling Webb wrote, if the reasoning he posited follows then there is no way that tectites came from the moon. The distribution on the earth, the ablation shapes, stretch forms, and lack of cosmic ray exposure pretty much eliminate the moon as the source. Steve Schoner IMCA #4470 Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 03:00:46 -0600 From: Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Orbital debris watching radar To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Hi, Darren, I gather from the phrase about having their orbits decay, that by Earth orbit, you mean in orbit about the Earth. Orbits around the Earth only decay because the orbit touches the uppermost atmosphere enough to cause drag which, however minute, reduces orbital velocity. It may seem logical that materials kicked off the Moon would easily and immediately end up in an orbit around the Earth, or at least some of them would. But the truth is that it is nearly impossible to get from the Moon to the Earth, and that lunar
Re: [meteorite-list] Re: Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 26, Issue 30 (Schoner's theory)
Steve, Everything sounds fine till that last couple of paragraphs where every other proposal also stumbles. Just where is all this silicate material in our oceans or atmosphere? I still see a mass balance problem. I'm open for a good answer, but if you just described it, I didn't understand. Regards, Norm http://tektitesource.com --- Steve Schoner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My theory on tektite formation: Go back to the impacts of cometary material on Jupiter in July of 1994. I think in this there is a clear demonstration of how tektites are formed. There were huge plumes of plasma extending out into space, and large dark clouds of re-condensed dust from the impacts after-wards. Now, I remember seeing an abstract regarding those plumes put out by I think Dr. Shoemaker. In this abstract it was posited that the plasma cloud achieved temps at nearly a million or more, such that water molecules and all organic molecules were disrupted so that hydrogen separated from its oxygen bonds. Now, it was stated in this abstract that the hydrogen escaped out into space but the free oxygen remained and fell back with the remnants of the plasma plume. In other words, the hydrogen was fractionated from the oxygen and ejected away from the plume. Now consider this. Tektites are virtually free of water. The remaining cometary plasma was mostly vaporized silicates and oxygen, and both were in a environment with a paucity of hydrogen which had escaped out into space. The rock vapor latched onto free oxygen. The result would be a glass with very little if any water. And that would explain the huge dust clouds (nanomicro-tektites)remaining. But I wonder if any large tektites condensed from those plasma plumes and fell into Jupiter's depths. No craters were produced, yet huge dust clouds floated in Jupiter's atmosphere for months. I ran this by Dr. Shoemaker sometime before his untimely death, and shortly later he was taken from us, thus I never got a response. Could such happen here on earth? Just imagine a huge cometary impact into our atmosphere. A complete disruption, with a plume of cometary plasma erupting out into space. Hydrogen fractionated from the plasma cloud, the remaining silicate material and oxygen re-combining to form a glass, and the glass then falling back to earth in some cases several thousands of miles form the impact point. No crater produced because the impact may have happened over the ocean, or simply because the comet disrupted in the air and never reached the ground. Steve Schoner #4470 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ad: page of great Sikhote BULLETS just posted to our website
List, With all the talk about oriented stones, I thought I'd get some great new strongly flight-oriented Sikhote Alin bullets posted. Check out the Sikhote Alin page at http://TektiteSource.com I'll be posting these to ebay over the next few months, but they are available from the website untill then. Thanks, Norm http://TektiteSource.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Why are Esquel slices Transparent Blue?
Gary, No one has bothered to explain it because it doesn't happen. What do you smoke just before you see this phenomenon? Regards, Norm http://TektiteSource.com --- Gary K. Foote [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't seem to fnid an explanation online anywhere. Gary http://www.meteorite-dealers.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] THEORIES OF THE ORIGIN OF TEKTITES, Part Two
Sterling, Thanks for posting this series! One question though: Item #5: It would also appear that no one tried breaking a specimen of each, as the fracture morphology of each differs. In what way? I've never tried breaking specimens, but I've seen plently of broken ones and have never noticed a difference. As amorphous glass, both obsidian and tektites have a nice conchoidal fracture. However, now that you bring it to my attention, I can imagine a theoretical difference: since most obsidian does have tiny crystallites, and tektites have absolutely none, tektites should have a smoother fracture surface, relatively free of stair-steps. I'll have to go check as soon as I get this written. As an interesting aside, various obsidians were esteemed for varied uses in the stone age. Varieties packed with incipient crystals flaked more crudely than more pure glasses, but because the tiny crystals obstructed the growth of fractures, tools made of such impure material were tougher. Better coarse, heavy duty implements could be made of this. More pure glasses made for perfectly flaked extra sharp arrowheads, but they were essentially one-use items as they broke very easily (there being no crystallites to interfere with fracture growth). Is this the sort of difference in fracture morphology to which you refer? Thanks, Norm http://tektitesource.com --- Sterling K. Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Part Two of THEORIES OF THE ORIGIN OF TEKTITES Passing through the Colossally Silly Entrance Hall, we next enter the extensive and colorful Volcanic Tektite Exhibition. 5. The Terrestrial Volcanic Origin of Tektites: Mayer, in 1788, published the first scientific tektite theory; he called moldavites glassy lavas. Charles Darwin, in 1844 (The Voyage of the H.M.S. Beagle), first described australite buttons and identified them as obsidian. He wondered a great deal about their unique shape, but became distracted by some issue or other in biology, so the world lost a great tektite theorist. The volcanic theory became as predominant in the 19th Century as the Impact Theory is today. It was endorsed by Wickman, 1893; van Dijk, 1879; W. D. Campbell, 1906; La Conte, 1902; and Moore, 1916 (who said tektites were identical to Pele's Tears); Simpson , 1902, proposed Australite tektites came from Krakatoa. Dunn, 1908 and 1912, proposed a complicated formation of tektites inside of gas bubbles in fresh lava, a suggestion further developed and complicated by Buddhue in 1940, while Dunn then later (1935) suggested tektites were formed by rain and snow falling on molten lava. The volcanic theories all died when geochemical analysis advances in the 20th Century, as tektites have a composition that is quite different from any terrestrial volcanic rock, and tektites are easily distinguishable from obsidian. It should be pointed out, in defense of Darwin and all the early geologists, that just from the standpoint of holding a tektite and obsidian in your hand and looking at them, they appear to be materially identical. Chemical and physical analysis is required to distinguish them. It would also appear that no one tried breaking a specimen of each, as the fracture morphology of each differs. However, the last Terrestrial Volcanic Theory was proposed in 1976! It is: 6. The Cryptovolcanic Origin of Tektites: McCall, 1976: To understand this at all, we need to dig into the strange tribal relationships of science. British geologists (we invented geology, you know) were firmly wedded (possibly even welded) to the volcanic origin of craters, all craters, of all kinds, on all worlds. An immense amount of energy and thought had been invested in lunar volcanic theory in particular, up through the 1950's. Those who learned their geology at British institutions (Australians, New Zedders, and so forth) were trained in this tradition. The notion of that some craters on the Earth or elsewhere might have been formed by heavy objects falling out of the sky was regarded as a crackpot theory put forward entirely by brash and uninformed colonials of the American variety who were well-known to be fond of whizz-bangs (child-like, you know), and the impact theory was resolutely resisted as errant nonsense up until the moment of the Moon landings, when it all unraveled in a snap. A volcanic explanation was handy; there had always been craters from which volcanic characteristics were absent. They were called by these geologists cryptovolcanic, meaning that their volcanic origins were hidden. This was a theory built on the absence of evidence as a proof of the theory, always a dangerous logical method. Cryptovolcanic craters were postulated to be the result of direct venting of very deep, very hot, high pressure gassy magma to the surface of the planet in a manner analogous to kimberlite pipes.
[meteorite-list] Fight extreme lunar spam
List, If you, like me, are one of the chosen, you'll be receiving another edition of Göran Lindfors' extreme lunar fakes spam about now. Please forward several copies of his message back to him. As I recall, we shut down his mailbox for a few days the last time. He seems to be a slow learner. Regards, Norm http://TektiteSource.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Experiment Update #1
Göran all, I don't understand the chemistry involved, but I have personally used a concentrated sodium hydroxide bath to remove rust from very rusty Campos. It took weeks, but scales of rust just kept detaching untill the bottom of the pail was a centimeter deep in rust flakes. I did do a final treatment with a wire brush, but ended with a beautiful metallic specimen. This treatment wasn't just a rust stopper. It removed rust in large quantities. The solution didn't discolor as if iron was being dissolved. Flakes just popped off and fell to the bottom. Cheers, Norm http://tektitesource.com --- Göran Axelsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is not a rust cleaner treatment, it is a rust stopper treatment. To remove the rust you have to use more traditional methods, like polishing. Acidic solutions with a low Ph makes it easier to dissolv the iron hydroxides in rust but at the same time the iron will be unprotected against oxidation. Basic solutions with a high Ph stops the iron hydroxides to dissolv but protects the iron against oxidation by passivation, it becomes chemically inert. The idea behind the hydroxide solution is to protect the iron while chloride ions are leached out of the meteorite. I would recommend small volumes in the bath, maybe twice the volume of the meteorite but at least covering it, combined with numerous replacement of the solution. In the beginning it should be closer between the changes of the solution as it faster gets contaminated. When the chlorine levels in the meteorite and the solution is in balance it doesn't help to let it lie longer. Archeologists sometimes uses ordinary tapwater in the initial bath but at the end they use deionised or distilled water. And whatever you do, don't use chlorinated water, that could make it rust even faster. /Göran tracy latimer wrote: About 10 days ago I dunked my poor Fredericksburg in what I hoped would be a rust removal bath of half Liquid Drano and half anhydrous alcohol. Since then, I have swirled it about at least once a day, and some of the rust has come off, but not all. The bath is lightly tinged with brown and there is a fine peppering of rust flakes on the bottom of the glass jar. I will give it another week or so, but if there is not a significant change in the quantity of rust in suspension rather than on my meteorite, Freddy will be taken out of the bath and more old fashioned methods of getting rid of rust will be regretfully employed. Watch this space for more fast-breaking news! Tracy Latimer __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Largest Crater in the Sahara Desert and LDG
Bernd list, This is indeed exciting, and may finally justify LDG being recognized as a true tektite rather than a simple impactite. Although the article doesn't give us much for location beyond at the northern tip of the Gilf Kebir region, that's close enough, as the LDG strewn field is immediately north of the Gilf Kebir. The 28.5 ma date for LDG should be a good number (fission track). The 100 million year sandstone mentioned as the crater target rock is perfect. For years it has been argued that the Nubia group sandstones are the geochemically perfect precursor for LDG. Interestingly, this raised a problem for researchers looking for a local LDG source crater as there are good geological arguments that the Nubia sandstones were covered by younger formations in the LDG strewn field at 28.5 ma and would not have been available as target rocks. With the revelation that this newly recognized crater did indeed impact the sandstones, we're almost there. Now, all we have to do is eject the LDG a hundred km or so northwards and the picture works fine. (The long axis of the strewn field is roughly N-S). Where is the dividing line between impactite and tektite? I'd like to hear what others may understand, but my impression is that it fundamentally hinges on distance the glassy material is ejected from the crater. Material found only in and immediately around the source crater is impactite. Stuff blasted tens to hundreds of km or more crosses the definitional boundary into tektites. If this is the criterion, LDG was already home free in my book insofar as the known strewn field has a long axis of at least 150 km, so even if there was a now-erosionally removed crater at one end of the strewn field proper, some of the glass would've already required over 100 km ejection distance. Now, I'm guessing we may be talking a couple hundred km, maybe more. Is that sufficiently far to legitimize LDG as a true tektite? (From Ries-Norlingen to the Czech moldavite fields is about 300 km). Cheers, Norm http://tektitesource.com --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Ron and List, Like so many others, I was eagerly flying over the lines in search of a hint to LDG (Libyan Desert Glass),and, there it is (of course ;-): since its shape points to an origin of extraterrestrial impact, it will likely prove to be the event responsible for the extensive field of 'Desert Glass'-yellow-green silica glass fragments found on the desert surface between the giant dunes of the Great Sand Sea in southwestern Egypt. But: may have been formed by a meteorite impact tens of millions of years ago. How many *tens* of millions of years ago ??? If current age estimates are correct, LDG has an age of ~28 Ma. Any thoughts out there, ... Norm? Cheers, Bernd __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Largest Crater in the Sahara Desert and LDG
Doug, Good points all, but if you want to raise the water/purity issue, you can't dodge the Muong Nong issue. (The best answer is that they shouldn't be called tektites, BUT, they ARE so called by all authorities). With LDG, it can be reasonably argued that flight-related morphology has been erased by ventifaction. In the area where this stuff is found, it is literally reasonable that ALL of the material has seen the wind and its entrained sand. LDG is pretty fine, clean glass, albeit with a higher water content. (So, here again, people have dodged the issue by calling them Muong Nongs---) As for inclusion of impactor material in LDG, you've got to remember that iron spherules are found in Australasian tektites. Good chance that's impactor condensate. I truly have no argument with the water content criterion. That's probably the best definitional parameter we have. But it makes me a bit nervous to turn the whole matter over to such a narrow definition. Are we positive, given all that we don't know about tektites, that there can't be any wet ones? Should we now start calling Pyrex another variety of tektite? Clearly, we are including some process-related factors (even if just inferred) in our definition. It is very much like the planet issue. I keep thinking that there have been a lot of grade-school kids that got marked down on tests for answering the question: How many planets are in our solar system? wrong according to the erroneous wisdom of a given time. How many tektite-producing impacts have there been? I get weary of qualifying my answers with, Well, depending on whether or not you count LDG Cheers, Norm http://tektitesource.com --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Norm L. writes: Where is the dividing line between impactite and tektite? I'd like to hear what others may understand, but my impression is that it fundamentally hinges on distance the glassy material is ejected from the crater. Material found only in and immediately around the source crater is impactite. Stuff blasted tens to hundreds of km or more crosses the definitional boundary into tektites. If this is the criterion, LDG was already home free Hola Norm, yet again here's another one of those awkward definitions that when overyly analyzed starts falling apart. I think the distance criterion is not THE criterion, but rather a tektite differs from an impact glass in that the tektite has actually been exposed to general conditions of enough kinetic and thermal energy to create a greater melt uniformity where the original impactor has transmitted that energy cleanly, and in such a great quantity that the energy is also enough to propel tektites into the upper atmosphere and have them re-enter ablating like meteorites. These are a bunch of hand-waving concepts, but as we know, it seems the one factor that really distinguishes tektites is the low water content. LDG's have at least 5 times the typical water content of the cleaner tektites, and they contain inclusions including those of the impactor, and aerodynamic shapes are not really known I believe. In fact the water content of LDG's at the low end of 5 times the amount of the cleaner tektites actually goes practically as high as obsidian. They don't usually look very aerodynamic and they have meteorites inside them. They deserve some distinction, they are dirty glass. Now all of this about water content might be just an academic distinction, except for one exception. One of the greatest mysteries of tektites is derived from the mystery of exactly what physical laws were twisted to get that low water content and this more than anything else is the criterion as much as the mystery. Plus they are generally clean (OK, they have smalled fused cuartz. etc., but there there tends to be a bimodal distribution between clean tektites and impact glasses as far as inclusions = so far you have clean ones and dirty ones) Please don't bring up layered tektites I don't want the definition system to fail even more... But practically speaking, you would have to be right that there is a continuum, just like in the definition of a planet, etc., the world tends towards complexity just when you get it all figured out...and soon we will come to know of the impektite that bridges tektites, water and all, with LDGs and other impact glasses. Better yet how about just saying they are all impact glasses - which they are no matter who starts talking about flying - and that tektites just had a higher energy/diffusion/flux melt event which is witnessed in the record by water content...If cats could only talk they could tell us how long we have erred on visible light as they see into the near UV, don't they? What's the use of going at it with a cat over the definition of visible light?:) My 2 centavos...Doug
Re: [meteorite-list] Largest Crater in the Sahara Desert and LDG
Doug, I do enjoy your contributions. Always stimulating. I have no fundamental disagreements. Just a few hair-splitting points. Re: the partial pressures in Australasian bubbles. It has been argued that our numbers are bogus. As atmospheric water is absorbed into the hydrating tektite selvage lining a bubble, internal pressures can be considerably reduced, giving the false appearance of high altitudes. I have never seen anything about partial pressures in LDG glass. I'm not sure anything has ever been found sufficiently large to measure. Lacking such data, this argument is conceptual, not real. However it is a great research suggestion. With modern micro-techniques LDG bubbles should be revisited! As for a real strewnfield defined for LDGs as we find with other conceptually true to form tektites, yes, the finding area is quite sharply delimited at about 150 km X 50 km. If anything, the LDG area is atypically WELL defined relative to other tektites (I don't know much about Ivory Coast distribution. It may be comparable or smaller). I must admit, I have never seen anything even remotely resembling an erosionally-modified aerodynamically- shaped Libyan Desert Glass form. If you started with the typical morphologies of Australasians and sand-blasted them within an inch of their existence, we would still recognize some traces of original morphology. I must decline any hope of the Harvey Award on this matter. You are totally correct. LDG shows absolutely no hint of aerodynamic ablation modification. Deep enough, Norm http://tektitesource.com (a great place to view a huge selection of prime Libyan Desert Glass!) --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hola Norm, so it seems we actually agree on most of the points, including the most important one: the subjectivity of the definition. You are just wanting to be more liberal...and me more stoodgy...I wasn't dodging the layered tektite issue when I said not to bring it up (which you unfortunately did:)). Clearly layered tektites are closer to impact glasses in the continuum and I was just trying to cleanly conceptualize. The definition of 'tektite' is a human classification which like most, depends on a clear understanding of a concept, not a recipe. The Muong Nong glasses (vs. tektites) as many experts also call them deserve a category by themselves so if you want to point to experts calling them tektites as support for calling the LDG's also tektites, all I can say is we are pushing the concept even further. You do mention the meteoritic content of Indochinites (=Australasian tektites). Yes a small component of iron has been detected, but this is very rare, and no where near the content in LDG which can approach a 0.5%. You didn't mention that the partial pressure of the air in the bubbles of the Indochinites corresponds to the upper atmosphere, and that in LDG I am assuming it corresponds to the surface. This shouldn't be a surprise as the water should not be linearly independent - thus they ought to track similarly. Good point on the desert weathering, but is there a real strewn field defined for LDG's, as we find with other conceptually true-to-form tektites (pun:))? If any evidence could be found, your argument would be more solid, as a of evidence isn't any proof of anything. Try checking nobel gas ratios and I bet the tektite concept will be even further away... Where I must really agree with you and put all grammatical gymnastics and opinions aside, is where you make the best point of the whole discussion, imho. That maybe our definition of tektites whatever that concept may be is based on faulty ideas. With liberty taken, that maybe it will change as we learn more. Yes, I buy that, I believe that is a distinct possibility. Things were so much simpler when we all agreed they were blasted from the Moon and the aerodynamic shapes and low water content actually meant something more to the experts of that time. Gor the time being, I be conservative on the definitions for the distinctions mentioned. Show me one aerodynamically shaped LDG besides one sculpted by a Neanderthal, and I'll recommend you for a Harvey award which would be quite fitting:), and definitely a nobel prize in the meteoritical community...for the moment we think there is a crater now, well, we already called them impact glasses, and now we have all these years of human transport mucking it up for these highly prized special glasses. Perhaps little Norm and little Doug in the 100th century will follow in our footsteps. Norm will say, Doug, look at all the chondrites in the USA, and there are none in the Sahara. Looks like the major strewn field is into North America and then a minor one into Europe. And Doug will say, I don't know, they weren't witnessed falls Jokes aside, the concepts are pretty clear --- high energy, less
Re: [meteorite-list] Hunting hours vs recovery rate
Sonny list, My stats are not going to be what people want to hear. I have been collecting rocks, fossils, and artifacts since I could walk. I have been a continuously active exploration geologist for 35 years. I have been looking at the ground in front of me with something of a trained eye for something like 50 years. Unusual rocks came home with me without fail. When I joined Homestake Mining Company about 25 years ago, they had to pay to move something like 10 tons of rock. When I sheepishly apologized to my new boss, he said I guess if we hire a geologist who doesn't like rocks, we made a poor choice! This is the long way of saying: none of those were meteorites. When I became interested in the current subject, I spent (as for most of my life) on the order of 150 days in the field per year in my normal work routine. Always looking, but with very limited knowledge (none the less, a well trained eye for the unusual). Nothing. No memories at all of something I wish I could go back and view again. As the obsession grew, I gradually acquired a small collection of meteorites via purchase specifically to train my eye. I started looking where there were few or no rocks (thanks to Nininger's Find a Falling Star that had been given to me). I can't guess how long it took after that--- I'd say weeks of quality time before the big moment for #1 (described on our website and IMCA). Speaking only of dedicated meteorite-search time, I spent another three or four man-days in Nevada, then say 5 man-days in virgin country in the high Andes in Chile, then another 3 days in Nevada before my next tiny find at Majuba (also on the website). Learning from experience, my next effort was where meteorites had been found before, and I found 21 fragments in 2 days. The next page will be written soon, but I suspect no armchair quarterback has any idea what kind of patience and perserverance it takes to beat the odds on one of the longest shot endeavors on earth! I serve as living proof that you can go nuts before it happens. Cheers, Norm http://TektiteSource.com (where you can read the longer versions of #s 1 2) --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, Have you ever wondered how many hours you must spend before your first cold find ? Or how many hours after you find a new area with a new meteorite before your next find? I would like to say that you will find a meteorite every 40- 50 hours of searching for cold finds not counting driving or prep time. The only problem is once you find one you will spend 4-5 days or longer searching the area looking for the rest of the meteorite or the continuation of the strewn field. In my own experience in a know strewnfield ( Gold Basin) I spent 16 hours of hunting plus 6 hours driving time for my first meteorite. I might have recovered one faster if it was not for the 10 pounds of meterwrongs I was carrying in my pockets before I found one. On some of the new areas I have spent as little as 4 hours before a new find in a new location. I have also spent weeks before a new find at 8 to 10 hour days. In a strewnfield that I have been working there are times were you may not find one for a week and then find one or two. In one area a friend I spent 3 days hunting before the frist find. We spent 2 more days looking for the next find paired to the first find. We have done 3 more trips to the location for a few more pieces. Average hunting day 8 hours plus 4-8 hours driving time to get to location one way. I would like to say the average time to find a meteorite in a known is location 2-20 hours. For a new cold find from a area with no finds may take 50 plus hours of hunting not counting driving or prep time. I am interested in hearing input from other hunters especially from the Southwest. I have been asked by some new meteorite hunters what they can expect before they find their first meteorite. Thanks, Sonny __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ad A Stretch Moldavite---the first ever???
List, Czech out http://tektitesource.com/taffy_cored_tektites.html This is a gorgeous new stretch tektite from Chlum. I've never heard of any others. There is a chance that it is the first and only example of its kind! If any of you know of any other stretch Moldavites, please let me know. Cheers, Norm http://TektiteSource.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Cool Fresh Chondrites and Slick-n-Slide
Greg all, Nice specimens. Just a minor side point: the term is slickensides for the striated, movement-polished surface itself, or slickensided for a rock showing slickensides. Your version is a common, but erroneous, transliteration. Cheers, Norm http://tektitesource.com --- Greg Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear List Members, I have been going through the material I brought back from my Morocco trip last week. Here are some photos of some very nice fresh chondrites, an unusual thing these days coming out of Morocco. There are two pictures of some very good examples of Slick-n-Slide also. I have not seen chondrites this nice for a long time out of the Sahara. 4170 gram Large and Fresh Thumb Printed chondrite - VERY COOL !! http://www.lunarrock.com/3-9/dsc1.jpg 140 gram Individual - Neat Shape http://www.lunarrock.com/3-9/dsc00013.jpg 122.7 gram Slick-n-Slide (Best Example I have Seen for a Long Time) http://www.lunarrock.com/3-9/dsc00023.jpg 25.6 gram Slick-n-Slide (Unfortunately broke during airplane ride home) http://www.lunarrock.com/3-9/dsc00025.jpg Hope you enjoy the pictures. Best regards, Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) [EMAIL PROTECTED] IMCA 3163 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Cool Fresh Chondrites and Slick-n-Slide
Pete list, There are meteorites with slickenside?! It would have to be Martian, then, right? Yes, slickensided meteorites have been discussed several times on the list. But no, they don't have to be planetary. I would only be speculating on the actual limiting conditions, but the parent body just needs to be sufficiently large and cohesive to break and move in frictional contact with the opposing surface a few inches or less. I'm guessing that even in small bodies without enough gravity to hold breaks in frictional contact, the pressures of a hard impact could do the job. I've never really thought about it before, but I can't see any reason why the striated surfaces on Sikhote shrapnel wouldn't be appropriately termed slickensides. The Glossary of Geology gives this definition: A polished and smoothly striated surface that results from friction along a fault plane (a fault is a surface along which movement has occured). Hence, you take even a baseball-sized lump of iron and impact it so hard that it breaks and slips a little under the compression of impact, and you could expect surface features that would meet the definition of slickensides. Cheers, Norm http://tektitesource.com --- Pete Pete [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Norm all, There are meteorites with slickenside?! It would have to be Martian, then, right? Cheers, Pete From: Norm Lehrman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Greg Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED],meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Cool Fresh Chondrites and Slick-n-Slide Date: Thu, 9 Mar 2006 13:18:31 -0800 (PST) Greg all, Nice specimens. Just a minor side point: the term is slickensides for the striated, movement-polished surface itself, or slickensided for a rock showing slickensides. Your version is a common, but erroneous, transliteration. Cheers, Norm http://tektitesource.com --- Greg Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear List Members, I have been going through the material I brought back from my Morocco trip last week. Here are some photos of some very nice fresh chondrites, an unusual thing these days coming out of Morocco. There are two pictures of some very good examples of Slick-n-Slide also. I have not seen chondrites this nice for a long time out of the Sahara. 4170 gram Large and Fresh Thumb Printed chondrite - VERY COOL !! http://www.lunarrock.com/3-9/dsc1.jpg 140 gram Individual - Neat Shape http://www.lunarrock.com/3-9/dsc00013.jpg 122.7 gram Slick-n-Slide (Best Example I have Seen for a Long Time) http://www.lunarrock.com/3-9/dsc00023.jpg 25.6 gram Slick-n-Slide (Unfortunately broke during airplane ride home) http://www.lunarrock.com/3-9/dsc00025.jpg Hope you enjoy the pictures. Best regards, Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) [EMAIL PROTECTED] IMCA 3163 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Any interesting (?) Chinese tektite
Mark list, About five years ago, as Cookie and I were helping our main Chinese supplier unpack at Tucson we found a couple of dozen like you have pictured. The coloration is a surface patina like Carnival Glass. We never determined how it formed, but I have seen similar patinas developed on ghost town glass that has been through a fire. I always suspected that the tektites might have been through a warehouse fire. Others suggested that an overly aggressive acid treatment was used in cleaning, but I've tried a variety of acids over the years and have never seen anything like this happen. Ironically, we were just commenting between us this year that it is strange that we have never seen the phenomena again. Not a single piece. This convinces me we are talking about some non-natural feature. To find 20 or 30 in one crate, then no more in something on the order of 50,000 to 75,000 pieces that we have subsequently sorted certainly provides a clue. I looked into the commercial production of carnival glass, but I don't remember the whole story. Something about sublimation of a metal film on hot glass. If you want to pursue the subject, look into that manufacturing process for more clues. As I recall, I sold all our pieces to a single collector in Texas. We openly expressed our concerns that this was probably not a natural phenomenon. Regards, Norm http://tektitesource.com --- MARK BOSTICK [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello list, Hope everyone is doing well. This may or may not be interesting, as it may or may not be that unusual. However, I have sorted through and sold a lot of tektites over the years and this is the only tektite like it I have seen. A nice average sized dumbell tektite http://www.meteoritearticles.com/coltektitechin76g.html Photographs were taken under white photograph lights in a room with white walls. The color is more obvious in person and was hard to reproduce digitally. On the ends and in the surface dimples, you can see a very striking blue color. The ends also show a little purple color, but more of the blue. Not sure what has caused this colorling. Any thoughts? Clear Skies, Mark Bostick Wichita, Kansas www.meteoritearticles.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] An interesting (?) Chinese tektite
Dirk, As I wrote earlier, I have seen this patina on old ghost town bottles that have been through a fire. There IS some connection. Perhaps the common ground between our comments is that wood ash is strongly alkaline. I remember my grandma leaching ashes to get lye to make soap. Perhaps the accelerated chemical reactions produced by heat combined with the alkaline ash is the key--- Whatever the case, there is an empirical connection with fire. Norm http://tektitesource.com --- drtanuki [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mark, Save your time. As I stated earlier this is due to a chemical reaction by perhaps a natural process (alkaline salts) or a man caused chemical process. The devitrification process (a weathering process) is similar that you see on old glass bottles that have been buried or in alkaline salt environments and nothing to do with heat. Please do a google search for more details. Best, Dirk --- MARK BOSTICK [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for your comments Dirk, Kevin and Norm, Norms comments: The coloration is a surface patina like Carnival Glass. is better then mine previous. I imagine it is a man influenced feature. Perhaps I will burn a couple tektites to see what results that creates and try other ways to create the patinawith some of my lower grade tektites of course. Clear Skies, Mark www.meteoritearticles.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ignored or List Not Working?
Gary, That's just a thin translucent septum. What you are seeing is the normal transmitted light color of most australasians. You can only see it along thin edges or where there's a shallow internal bubble. Regards, Norm http://tektitesource.com --- Gary K. Foote [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Dirk, This is the best shot of the green ridge I could get. My camera kept wanting to focus on the body of the tektite or on the background. The green ridge is centered longititudinally along the specimen's axis in the middle of a smooth, shiny spot that looks like it may have remained melted for a time after the major portions of the piece solidified. Pic is here; http://www.meteorite-dealers.com/images/green-tektite.jpg Thanks, Gary On 10 Mar 2006 at 8:56, drtanuki wrote: Gary, If you have images of your green edged Indochinte I will gladly give it a look. Depending on the thickness of the glass some appears yellow-green to a blackish-green. Oxides of iron in indochines and other tekties usually produce greens, yellows, yellow greens, brown greens. The missing color for iron oxides in glass are reds and blues. Darryl Futrell once emailed me that he had a sample of a blue impact glass, later we lost contact so the exact location is unknown except Argentina (Patagonia). He claimed that there were 100+ pound masses of it. Messages are coming through but have been busy without sleep for more than 3 days at this moment. Dirk...Tokyo --- Gary K. Foote [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are my emails coming thru to the list? I seem to be getting ignored. Gary __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - April 3, 2006
Susan et al, I agree. And you've gotta give that baby a little credit too! Just kidding, Norm (http://tektitesource.com) --- batkol [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i don't think i've ever seen a cuter meteorite on this page . . . . take care susan - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, April 02, 2006 9:01 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - April 3, 2006 http://www.spacerocksinc.com/April_3.html __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorite Times tektite of the month
Paul, I tried to send this off list, but the email link doesn't work. With all due respect, you are selling an idea as fact. Ideas are fun and should be unconstrained. But don't present them as done deals. I have dozens of specimens of this sort. They are so uniform that they cannot be the random melding of two tektites. I don't claim to know what they are for sure (and I don't even deny that you could be right, but I don't think so). I have one that is developed on a bubble shard and the convex exterior feature corresponds with a concave interior feature, suggesting it was a bubble about to erupt. This is quite fatal to your interpretation. Tektites are particularly fun because there are still questions like this that even us kids have a shot at solving. But don't foist a simple idea, as fine as it may be, on the believing public as fact. It is a fine idea. And almost surely wrong. Sorry. But if you want to buy a whole bunch of these, let me know! Norm http://tektitesource.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] meteorite magnetic polarization?
List, I just received several nice big 0.5 - 1 kg stony NWAs (unclassified). One of them shows distinct magnetic polarity. One face repells the magnet. Is that common? Any particular significance? regards, Norm http://tektitesource.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ad: MetTimes Tektite of the Month specimens posted
List, I've built a new page offering some specimens of the controversial bubble blisters or impact welded tektites featured by Paul Harris in the current Meteorite Times Tektite of the Month column. Be sure to check the MetTimes archive for an earlier column in the March 2003 issue. I have included examples that I think are definitive. Have a look. http://tektitesource.com/Tektite%20Bubble%20blisters.htm Cheers, Norm http://TektiteSource.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ad: Nevada Meteorite as found IN MATRIX
List, Here's a heads up on something kind of neat. A few days ago I stopped at my favorite central Nevada dry lake and collected several specimens complete with the dessicated lake bed surface in which they were embedded. I just posted the first one to ebay. See it at: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=6624425370 This makes a really interesting display piece and comes with exact find coordinates. If anyone would like a bigger version of this---say a square foot or so of lake surface complete with a meteorite, let me know and I'll try to collect one for you on my next trip out. I'm still experimenting with approaches to stabilizing the material, but water-diluted Elmer's glue seems to work well without any obvious changes in appearance. This could make a really cool framed wall mount! Cheers, Norm http://tektitesource.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] RE: Self-Proclaimed Pairing Issues
Thomas, Take heart. Almost a year? Try never. The last piece I sent to UCLA they claim to never have received even though people visiting the lab asked about it and were told probable preliminary classifications. Now they want a second piece? Can anyone help me get the kick me sticker off my back? I don't know where the problem might be. US mail? UCLA mailroom? Met lab? I suspect the mail room. Packages going to this department might have valuable rocks. But that doesn't explain the verbal communications suggesting the material was in process. Lesson: if you can find a way, have your material hand carried into the hands of a respected scientist by someone who can vouch that it was delivered. I am very disheartened by the whole experience. Maybe you get what you pay for. It appears I did. Cheers, Norm http://tektitesource.com --- Thomas Webb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: List Members, There are a few people who seemingly are able to get meteorites classified in a matter of weeks. I have been waiting for almost a year now and don't even have a number much less a classification. Is this due to the volume supplied by some and the consequent revenue to the institution or what is the reason for the inequity? I would appreciate some answers to the list on this matter. Thank you, Thomas H. Webb __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD NWA individuals added to website
List, Although we specialize in tektites and impactites, I couldn't resist cherry picking some superb NWA unclassifieds at Tucson this year. Most are complete or nearly complete individuals, all unclassified. I finally got the page updated minutes ago. You may find some sleepers there. Cheers, Norm http://TektiteSource.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Some sick people!!!
--- Norm Lehrman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Tom, The list isn't your problem. After about day 2 when the blog went bad, I've never been back, and won't be going there. WITHOUT going there, I don't even know what you're talking about. Stay on the list. You're a good guy. The blog has nothing at all to do with the list! Get real man. All the best, Norm. (http://tektitesource.com) --- Tom Knudson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey List, in order to protect my daughter, I am leaving the list. Some people are so hateful they have to use my daughter as a subject in the Blog. If you have not seen the Blog and what type of people you buy your meteorites from, you should look to see how disrespectful these people are. http://meteoritehunters.blogspot.com/ I am not going to stay on the list so people can attack my kid. I would hope the Blog owner is man (or woman) enough to delete the posts that mention my daughter. They can make fun of me all they want, but dragging my daughter into it, I take that seriously!!! It's a sad world when you have to leave a place that you absolutely love to protect your kid. And I will not be coming back, so don't worry, I love my kid to much to ever come back. And to the blog poster, God bless you! Thanks, Tom peregrineflier http://www.frontiernet.net/~peregrineflier/Peregrineflier.htm http://fstop.proboards24.com/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Darryl Futrell on flanged button prices (Was: Spectacular Tektite on eBay)
All, There are a couple of key issues regarding flanged aussie buttons. First, the big money has always been for Port Campbell Victoria specimens which somehow seem always bright, fresh, and pristine. All the others are in another league. For years I have offered specimens from anywhere else for $900 to $1300, but I haven't been able to restock for over 5 years at any wholesale price under $1500. They simply aren't on the market. --- On Mon, 8/9/10, bernd.pa...@paulinet.de bernd.pa...@paulinet.de wrote: From: bernd.pa...@paulinet.de bernd.pa...@paulinet.de Subject: [meteorite-list] Darryl Futrell on flanged button prices (Was: Spectacular Tektite on eBay) To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Monday, August 9, 2010, 9:05 AM Hello Brian and List, Brian wrote: On this beautiful tektite, I stand corrected. On December 3rd, 2000, I asked our late Darryl Futrell (+ Aug 13, 2001) what a reasonable price for a perfect Australian button would be and the next day he responded like this: A perfect flanged button goes for about $2000 or more. Maybe a sandblasted one might turn up for $1000 or so. Best wishes from someone who wishes he had one too Bernd __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Darryl Futrell on flanged button prices (Was: Spectacular Tektite on eBay)
Sorry, I was typing in the dark and hit a button that sent the message before I was done. The one on Ebay is significantly over-priced. For $1800, I think I can still source a flawless specimen. With the rim chips, I would not pay $1000, but times are certainly changing. They haven't made any more of these for a very long time and the supply is getting very lean. I think I told the story on our website, but I traded my youngest daughter's hand in marriage for one fine flanged button. We were living in West Aus and spent lots of time out searching. On the fateful day, Derek (our great current son in law) came out with us, his first tektite hunt. Cookie and I had over 1000 finds each to our credit (australites that is, not a single fully flanged button) and had a pretty good eye. We know how to tell them from kangaroo droppings (bite them!). We were walking a dry stream channel southeast of Kalgoorlie and finding nothing. My daughter is American Indian, and I had been kidding Derek that if he wanted to marry her he was going to have to come up with a fine bunch of horses and blankets for the father of the bride. It was hot and dry and swarming with flies and kangaroo droppings were about as exciting as it got. Then Derek shouted hey norm, about those horses and sheep and stuff---would this do??? He was holding up a perfect, flawless flanged button. I accepted on the spot. He has my daughter and a fine family, I have a fine flanged Australite and some great grandkids. What's more, we're both happy with the deal. People sometimes ask what my daughter thinks of being sold for a flanged button, and I assure them that she understands their rarity and is honored to command such a premium! Three years has passed since we moved to Africa and suspended the Tektite Source. Cookie has now moved back to the USA and is getting the inventory unpacked; I'm still wandering Africa at least until the end of the calendar year. But within a few months we should have things up and running again. Thanks for waiting. We have a long list of clients to contact when she finds everything. If you have items of interest from the website, let us know and we'll get to you when we can--- I need to visit our own website, but unfortunately I think we are completely out of good flanged buttons (that are for sale--there's for sure on that isn't!) Cheers, Norm http://tektitesource.com --- On Mon, 8/9/10, bernd.pa...@paulinet.de bernd.pa...@paulinet.de wrote: From: bernd.pa...@paulinet.de bernd.pa...@paulinet.de Subject: [meteorite-list] Darryl Futrell on flanged button prices (Was: Spectacular Tektite on eBay) To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Monday, August 9, 2010, 9:05 AM Hello Brian and List, Brian wrote: On this beautiful tektite, I stand corrected. On December 3rd, 2000, I asked our late Darryl Futrell (+ Aug 13, 2001) what a reasonable price for a perfect Australian button would be and the next day he responded like this: A perfect flanged button goes for about $2000 or more. Maybe a sandblasted one might turn up for $1000 or so. Best wishes from someone who wishes he had one too Bernd __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Question for dealers re: displaying sold items
All, This is an interesting question with important nuances. I am one that does leave many sold items pictured (but I do endeavor to marke them sold ASAP). Here's why I do it: The items we sell, each and every one of them, are unique. It is not like listing a particular stock item that was mass produced. We do have categories and types and sub-types, but in the end, a whole long list of individuals. As a consequence, every specimen has a unique value. One displays this feature supremely well, another presents other aspects well. One glorious piece has it all. I leave pictures of sold items on the website to help collectors to develop a sense of perspective. How can you recognize a truly superb Besednice moldavite if you don't have some frame of reference for the range of attributes possible? So that is my why. But there is another question that has not been mentioned thus far, and I would appreciate your thoughts on this. For a long time, when I was updating a sold item, I left the asking price visible. The thought, in line with the preceeding paragraph, was to help provide perspective as to what other willing buyers had accepted as a fair price for a piece of a particular quality. However, I also recognize that the day comes when a buyer may wish to resell, and at that point, the price they paid for the piece should be a private matter. In fact, some buyers may not want their significant others finding out the buying price for that great specimen they just bought instead of paying the rent! So, I increasingly do remove the purchase price when I mark something sold (but I hope that potential buyers may be able to infer from my long listing of sold items that many collectors have judged my pricing reasonable---). Do you want the purchase price deleted or do you find value in being able to see what was actually paid for a specimen? Periodically, I do go through our listings and weed out most of the sold items, leaving only a selection of some of the best of the best sold items still pictured. But for those of you who don't maintain your own websites, it is worth noting that this involves identifying the particular thumbnail photo that links to particular blow-up, then deleting those images and changing the associated page to delete references to those images, etc, etc. Frankly, there comes a point where it is easier to just leave it all there. Lazy is part of the answer to the original question--- Cheers, Norm (http://tektitesource.com) (back home for a month, then back to Africa---) - Original Message From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, April 12, 2011 7:59:52 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Question for dealers re: displaying sold items Hi List, Martin and Shawn raised a couple of good points. Old-school collectors bought specimens via snail mail and telephone calls, sometimes without seeing a photo of a specimen. Some dealers like Bob Haag had catalogues with photos and descriptions, but many had simple price lists with nothing more than a line or two describing the specimen. Today, we have instant gratification and can shop online for meteorites as if we are buying shoes or a hat. But, meteorites are unique and unusual, so they are ill-suited for a quickie drive through type of sales medium. Some of the newer dealers have very nice and flashy websites that are quite effective, but much of the meteorite world is still operating by it's own rules, so change comes slowly. Heck, I still buy the occasional specimen via snail mail and price-list. I've bought specimens from Blaine Reed, sight-unseen with just a brief text description and price. Not one time have I been disappointed, and it's exciting to open the package and see the specimen for the first time. It's a thrill one can't really get when you have already seen a dozen hi-res photos from every possible angle before receiving it in hand. As for the dealers who still have archives or pages full of sold specimens, I have no problem with it, if the specimens are marked as sold on the website, and the website is updated on a regular basis or semi-regular basis. When I can't tell which specimens are sold and which are not, that can be frustrating. Best regards, MikeG -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 --- On 4/12/11, Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com wrote: I would say Dealers leave sold items on the website because it shows the buyers what they have sold in the
Re: [meteorite-list] Illinois, Indiana, Ohio glacial deposits
All, I fear this thread may be counter-productive for any that are just getting started in the search for meteorites. The glacier angle is, in this case, thin ice. First, Antarctica is a very special case: in general glacial moraines are an absolutely horrible place to look. I'm with Mike. If you've got genuine meteorites, they probably have nothing at all to do with the moraine deposits. Second, I'm also with Anne: the starting place here is to confirm the ID. This is one of those stories with to good to be true overtones. But back to moraines. As a lifelong exploration geologist, I spent many years living on the terminal moraines and outwash gravels of the Cordilleran ice sheet (in NE WA). Moraines are vast accumulations of rock, precisely what a meteorite hunter doesn't want. Nininger's pioneering success in the recovery of meteorites was a direct result of going places where there shouldn't be any rocks. The sand seas of the Sahara, same thing. The dry lakebeds of the Great Basin continue that tradition. And so does Antarctica. The latter, of course, is where the confusion arises. Glaciers are part of the story for the Antarctic meteorites, but only part. Starting at the simple end, Antarctica is a vast expanse of white and blue where the nearest bedrock is often 3000 m straight down. Rocks are easy to spot, and most that are there fell from the sky. On a snowmobile you can cover a lot of ground fast and not miss much. The driest air on earth (much dryer than that of hot deserts) adds to the story by lengthening meteorite shelf-life. Then there are the glaciers. Mainly, the ice flows to the coast and the meteorites sail away in their ice rafts until they are dumped unceremoniously into the depths of the ocean. However, where the flowing ice encounters mountains, like the Transantarctic range, it stalls, to be slowly eaten away by katabatic winds descending from the high country. More ice flows in to replace that lost, and with time, all of the entrained rocks accumulate in a relatively compact stranding zone. The terminal moraines of the North American ice sheets were quite different. They flowed into warmer climes, melted, thinned and dumped their contents like dirty plowed snowpiles in the spring. They advanced and retreated. Meltwaters reworked the lot. The ice was both a bulldozer and upside-down conveyor belt. Certainly, meteorites fell onto the surface of the ice, as they do on all the world, but in this case the glaciers provided vast dilution, not concentration. Of course you could find a meteorite in glacial deposits, but the dilution effects make the search much more difficult. So advice to would-be searchers: by all means do search wherever you can, but if you want to increase your odds of success, don't head for the moraines of the great continental ice sheets. Further, you don't need to run out and buy a metal detector, expensive or otherwise. Life is too short to do that anywhere but a strewn field. You need to cover ground to up the odds. Go where there are no rocks and use your eyes, by far the best tool available for routine cold searches Cheers, Norm (still on the far side of the globe) www.tektitesource.com - Original Message From: Dave Myers whitefalcons...@yahoo.com To: meteoriteguy.com m...@meteoriteguy.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; tracy latimer daist...@hotmail.com Sent: Fri, June 10, 2011 5:07:57 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Illinois, Indiana, Ohio glacial deposits Hi Mike you may be right. But the two chondrites are so different, I do not think there from the same fall. But they both could be from different falls?? And when you look at the glacier map I posted with all the iron finds in south west ohio, non of them are paired? just my thoughts. Thanks again Dave Myers - Original Message From: meteoriteguy.com m...@meteoriteguy.com To: Dave Myers whitefalcons...@yahoo.com Cc: tracy latimer daist...@hotmail.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thu, June 9, 2011 9:29:27 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Illinois, Indiana, Ohio glacial deposits Guys, It is very unlikely that these Chondrites are related to the glaciation. Just appears to be a strewnfield like any other. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Jun 9, 2011, at 6:26 PM, Dave Myers whitefalcons...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi Tracy All the green areas on the map are high glaicer morians It does not show the smaller ones in Butler county and other countys. There is a farm on the Butler-Hamilton county line most of it in Hamilton county, Has a perfect out line u shaped of a morian on that farm. I want to hunt that really bad. Will ask next them next year. Dave Myers - Original Message From: tracy latimer daist...@hotmail.com To:
Re: [meteorite-list] Illinois, Indiana, Ohio glacial deposits
Count, Muonionalusta is actually a good illustration regarding the potential effects of glaciation: --- the Muonionalusta meteorites have endured thousands of years' worth of glaciations and melting periods. As a result, thawing ice sheets have migrated the meteorites miles from their original impact site, making Muonionalusta among the largest and most challenging strewn fields on the planet. (quoted from the Meteorite Men episode description). I don't have any personal knowledge of the Muonionalusta research, but the suggestion inherint in the last part of the quote is that glacial effects have dispersed, enlarged, and confused the inferred original distribution pattern. Which is my general point: more often than not, glacial phenomena work against the meteorite hunter. Without the slightest doubt, meteorites fell on the continental ice sheets, were variously transported, and were ultimately deposited. This, however, does not make glacial deposits any more prospective for meteorites than your back yard. In fact, if you find one in your back yard, you will be well on your way to finding more. But if you find one in glacial till, your chances of expanding that find into multiple finds is greatly reduced, not enhanced. Cheers, Norm www.tektitesource.com - Original Message From: Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net To: Norm Lehrman nlehr...@nvbell.net; Dave Myers whitefalcons...@yahoo.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, June 10, 2011 6:31:30 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Illinois, Indiana, Ohio glacial deposits Hello Norm, List, Considering the exposition on Meteorite Men of the Muonionalusta strewn field and in particular the claims by the Swedish hunter that the meteorites were brought to the area by glaciers, could you comment? Best to all, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Norm Lehrman nlehr...@nvbell.net Sent: Jun 10, 2011 6:08 AM To: Dave Myers whitefalcons...@yahoo.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Illinois, Indiana, Ohio glacial deposits All, I fear this thread may be counter-productive for any that are just getting started in the search for meteorites. The glacier angle is, in this case, thin ice. First, Antarctica is a very special case: in general glacial moraines are an absolutely horrible place to look. I'm with Mike. If you've got genuine meteorites, they probably have nothing at all to do with the moraine deposits. Second, I'm also with Anne: the starting place here is to confirm the ID. This is one of those stories with to good to be true overtones. But back to moraines. As a lifelong exploration geologist, I spent many years living on the terminal moraines and outwash gravels of the Cordilleran ice sheet (in NE WA). Moraines are vast accumulations of rock, precisely what a meteorite hunter doesn't want. Nininger's pioneering success in the recovery of meteorites was a direct result of going places where there shouldn't be any rocks. The sand seas of the Sahara, same thing. The dry lakebeds of the Great Basin continue that tradition. And so does Antarctica. The latter, of course, is where the confusion arises. Glaciers are part of the story for the Antarctic meteorites, but only part. Starting at the simple end, Antarctica is a vast expanse of white and blue where the nearest bedrock is often 3000 m straight down. Rocks are easy to spot, and most that are there fell from the sky. On a snowmobile you can cover a lot of ground fast and not miss much. The driest air on earth (much dryer than that of hot deserts) adds to the story by lengthening meteorite shelf-life. Then there are the glaciers. Mainly, the ice flows to the coast and the meteorites sail away in their ice rafts until they are dumped unceremoniously into the depths of the ocean. However, where the flowing ice encounters mountains, like the Transantarctic range, it stalls, to be slowly eaten away by katabatic winds descending from the high country. More ice flows in to replace that lost, and with time, all of the entrained rocks accumulate in a relatively compact stranding zone. The terminal moraines of the North American ice sheets were quite different. They flowed into warmer climes, melted, thinned and dumped their contents like dirty plowed snowpiles in the spring. They advanced and retreated. Meltwaters reworked the lot. The ice was both a bulldozer and upside-down conveyor belt. Certainly, meteorites fell onto the surface of the ice, as they do on all the world, but in this case the glaciers provided vast dilution, not concentration. Of course you could find a meteorite in glacial deposits, but the dilution effects make the search much more difficult. So advice to would-be searchers: by all means do search wherever you can
[meteorite-list] 80th Anniversary of the arrival of a Green Alien from Space!
Listoids, June 27, 1931, 0130 hours, Foum Tatahouine, Tunisia June 26, 2030 hours, New York June 26, 1830 hours, Denver June 26, 1730 hours, Spokane In just a few hours it will be 1:30 AM, June 27 in Tunisia (but I am not going to stay up for it as that will be 3:30AM at my present location in East Africa). It’s a clear starry night at a balmy 24C/75F in Tunisia, much like the night in 1931. Eighty years ago today, after a very long voyage from a spaceport believed to be located in the south pole crater of asteroid 4 Vesta, a green alien shattered into tiny bits against the earth’s atmosphere. The fragments rained down about 2 ½ miles NE of Foum Tatahouine, Tunisia. On the same month and day, but differing numbers of years later, a couple of additional aliens survived re-entry and are quietly living amongst other earthlings to this day. Happy birthday, my diogenite brother Doug Dawn (aka MexicoDoug)! Happy earth-arrival anniversary Tatahouine! A great place to catch up on the story of Tatahouine is Doug’s website: (www.diogenite.com/tata1.htm) My favourite factoid regarding the green meteorite is the common presence of tiny shatter-cone horsetails decorating the coarse pyroxene crystals. A question for those more knowledgeable than I on impact cratering: could these shattercones have formed during the event that ejected the material from its source crater or are they artifacts of earlier impacts in the same location? Best regards, Norm Lehrman __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
