Re: [meteorite-list] uk meteor w/ at least one fragmentation- must be several videos?

[Chris Peterson via Meteorite-list]

Looks to be at least 50km off the coast over the North Sea.

Chris

***
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Cloudbait Observatory
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On 2/20/2024 3:53 PM, drtanuki via Meteorite-list wrote:

List,
   uk meteor w/ at least one fragmentation-- 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVTr64row18
May be rocks on the ground if over land.
Dirk Ross
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Re: [meteorite-list] Small, earth-impacting asteroid/meteoroid videos now showing up online

[Chris Peterson via Meteorite-list]

Meteorites have now been recovered.

Models suggest a single main mass of around 1kg from the terminal 
explosion and multiple small pieces from earlier fragmentation events 
along the meteor path.


Chris

***
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
https://www.cloudbait.com

On 2/15/2023 3:56 AM, Graham Ensor wrote:

Apologies for the last message. I misinterpreted the initial predictions
and it does appear to have been heading the other way and AMS has it
terminating near the coast slode to Dieppe and FRIPON even closer...other
models now showing that indeed it may have dropped material on land. Good
luck to my friends heading there for a search.

Graham

On Tue, Feb 14, 2023 at 3:55 PM Chris Peterson via Meteorite-list <
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> wrote:


It was heading generally eastward over the Channel and was still burning
when it crossed the French shoreline. It is likely to have dropped
meteorites on land.

Chris

***
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
https://www.cloudbait.com

On 2/14/2023 3:29 AM, Graham Ensor via Meteorite-list wrote:

It was heading from France and terminated it seems just as it reached the
channel so likely everything is in the sea if it did drop anything. Not
seen any predictions that it made landfall in France or the UK. So close
and yet so far.

Graham

On Mon, Feb 13, 2023 at 11:27 PM Darryl Pitt via Meteorite-list <
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> wrote:




Nice!   :-)

On Feb 12, 2023, at 11:10 PM, Matson, Rob D. [US-US] via Meteorite-list

<

meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> wrote:

A small (~1-meter) asteroid that astronomers have been tracking for
several hours earlier today crossed over the English Channel one hour

ago

(3:00 UT 13 February) and broke up over the coast of Normandy. Many

videos

of it are already appearing on the web. Here’s one taken from Brighton,

UK

(south coast of England) looking across the channel toward France:

https://twitter.com/KadeFlowers/status/1624967147708420103

Should be numerous meteorites on the ground – the meteoroid was at about
40-km altitude at the point it crossed the French coastline north of
Saint-Martin-aux-Buneaux, so nearly all of it should be over land.

--Rob

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Re: [meteorite-list] Small, earth-impacting asteroid/meteoroid videos now showing up online

[Chris Peterson via Meteorite-list]

It was heading generally eastward over the Channel and was still burning 
when it crossed the French shoreline. It is likely to have dropped 
meteorites on land.


Chris

***
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
https://www.cloudbait.com

On 2/14/2023 3:29 AM, Graham Ensor via Meteorite-list wrote:

It was heading from France and terminated it seems just as it reached the
channel so likely everything is in the sea if it did drop anything. Not
seen any predictions that it made landfall in France or the UK. So close
and yet so far.

Graham

On Mon, Feb 13, 2023 at 11:27 PM Darryl Pitt via Meteorite-list <
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> wrote:




Nice!   :-)

On Feb 12, 2023, at 11:10 PM, Matson, Rob D. [US-US] via Meteorite-list <
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> wrote:

A small (~1-meter) asteroid that astronomers have been tracking for
several hours earlier today crossed over the English Channel one hour ago
(3:00 UT 13 February) and broke up over the coast of Normandy. Many videos
of it are already appearing on the web. Here’s one taken from Brighton, UK
(south coast of England) looking across the channel toward France:

https://twitter.com/KadeFlowers/status/1624967147708420103

Should be numerous meteorites on the ground – the meteoroid was at about
40-km altitude at the point it crossed the French coastline north of
Saint-Martin-aux-Buneaux, so nearly all of it should be over land.  --Rob
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Re: [meteorite-list] NASA sending ship to asteroid worth 70, 000 times more than the global economy

[Chris Peterson via Meteorite-list]

To be fair, we are sitting right now on a planet worth a lot more than 
that! And we don't have to go anywhere to investigate it.


Resource quantity isn't really the problem. It's accessing those resources.

Chris

***
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
https://www.cloudbait.com

On 1/30/2023 2:16 PM, drtanuki via Meteorite-list wrote:

Dear List,
   Article in news, "NASA sending ship to asteroid worth 70,000 times more than the 
global economy".

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/world-news/nasa-set-spacex-launch-date-29085874

Best Always,
Dirk Ross...Tokyo
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Re: [meteorite-list] odd cloud, print error, meteor?

[Chris Peterson via Meteorite-list]

Chemical or liquid stain of some sort. Not part of the photographic image.

Chris

***
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Cloudbait Observatory
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On 3/25/2022 2:09 AM, drtanuki via Meteorite-list wrote:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RPPC-Dam-Construction-c-1910-MORAN-WYOMING-Teton-County-REAL-PHOTO-CARD-/134059182860?&_trksid=p2056016.m2516.l5255
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Re: [meteorite-list] Noblesville IN possible meteorite landing December

[Chris Peterson via Meteorite-list]

Once it enters dark flight it is largely subject to what the wind is 
doing. Within a few seconds it is simply falling at terminal velocity.


Of course, it depends on what we mean by "break up". I'm talking here 
about a terminal explosion, which is a common way that meteorite 
producing meteors end up. There are also meteors that break up over a 
long distance, in a series of explosions or disruptions. Those tend to 
drop meteorites along that path, producing long strewn fields.


In any case, if you see a fireball near the horizon, there is no way it 
can drop meteorites anywhere nearby.


Chris

***
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
https://www.cloudbait.com

On 1/20/2022 7:32 AM, Mendy Ouzillou wrote:

What velocity range to meteors decelerate to when they enter dark flight? It 
someone sees it breakup directly overhead (i.e. prior to entering dark flight) 
seems like it could still be at least tens (more?) of miles away when it hits 
the ground.

Mendy Ouzillou

-Original Message-
From: Meteorite-list  On Behalf Of 
Chris Peterson via Meteorite-list
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 8:24 AM
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Noblesville IN possible meteorite landing December

If you saw it break up near the horizon, any meteorites produced are 100 miles 
or more away from you. For meteorites to be within a few miles of your location 
you would have seen it break up directly overhead.

Chris

***
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
https://www.cloudbait.com

On 1/19/2022 6:09 PM, Chris Friedman via Meteorite-list wrote:

Hello all,

First week of December 2021, I was hanging out in my hot tub when a large 
blue/green trailing sighing that stretched from the left to right across the 
entire horizon and then broke apart into pieces and fell to the ground. We 
spend a lot of time back there staring at the skies and I have a good feeling 
that this landed approximately within 2 miles from our home. I’ve never seen 
anything like this in my life.

I feel like me and my family may be the only people that are aware of this 
sighting and I feel like I should share this with the group. There was nothing 
in the local news or social media about the sighting. If you are a serious 
hunter of meteorites and would like to reach out to me for more info, send me 
an email.

Thanks!
Chris

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [meteorite-list] Noblesville IN possible meteorite landing December

[Chris Peterson via Meteorite-list]

If you saw it break up near the horizon, any meteorites produced are 100 
miles or more away from you. For meteorites to be within a few miles of 
your location you would have seen it break up directly overhead.


Chris

***
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
https://www.cloudbait.com

On 1/19/2022 6:09 PM, Chris Friedman via Meteorite-list wrote:

Hello all,

First week of December 2021, I was hanging out in my hot tub when a large 
blue/green trailing sighing that stretched from the left to right across the 
entire horizon and then broke apart into pieces and fell to the ground. We 
spend a lot of time back there staring at the skies and I have a good feeling 
that this landed approximately within 2 miles from our home. I’ve never seen 
anything like this in my life.

I feel like me and my family may be the only people that are aware of this 
sighting and I feel like I should share this with the group. There was nothing 
in the local news or social media about the sighting. If you are a serious 
hunter of meteorites and would like to reach out to me for more info, send me 
an email.

Thanks!
Chris

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [meteorite-list] Washington SpaceX fall event: debris recovered

[Chris Peterson via Meteorite-list]

I'd be very surprised if ownership wasn't retained by the operator. If 
viewed as an accident scene, the rules would probably follow those of 
aircraft. At the other extreme, this doesn't seem different from a car 
that loses control and leaves a public street, crashing onto private 
property. The owner of the property typically has no claim to the 
vehicle wreckage.


Chris

***
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
https://www.cloudbait.com

On 4/3/2021 9:24 AM, Dennis Miller via Meteorite-list wrote:

I have not seen a Federal Regulation pertaining to Space craft debris.  Title 
49 part 830
only outlines the rules and laws concerning Aircraft wreckage.  Good question.  
We will
have to wait for 21st Century laws! 

Sent from my iPad


On Apr 3, 2021, at 8:50 AM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks via Meteorite-list 
 wrote:

Hi Marco and List,

I have a question about ownership and legality of these manmade
artifacts that fall from space and are found on private property.

What is the law regarding objects that originate from private entities?

I understand that if part of a NASA object falls on your land, that it
is still government property.

But, SpaceX is a private corporation, so would that change the legal
situation? Could a land owner keep such an object legally?

Best regards,

MikeG


On 4/2/21, Marco Langbroek via Meteorite-list
 wrote:

Marc Fries wrote:

I've posted some data on the Washington debris fall from last 26 March.
Radar signatures from this event persist for about two hours after the
event, and some early-arriving signatures appear to be massive objects.
The strewn field lies along a line which covers most of the state and
appears along a line which roughly connects Yakima and Spokane.




A COPV from this Falcon 9 reentry has been revovered on farmland in Grand
County, Washington:

https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/2/22364582/spacex-rocket-debris-falls-farm-washington

- Marco


Dr Marco Langbroek

e-mail:ma...@langbroek.org
web:   www.langbroek.org
Twitter:   @Marco_Langbroek

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--

Galactic Stone & Ironworks : https://www.galactic-stone.com
Twitter : https://twitter.com/GalacticStone
Meteorites, Ice Age Fossils, Minerals, and Artifacts

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Re: [meteorite-list] hot vs. cold meteorite falls

[Chris Peterson via Meteorite-list]

A meteoroid in space is nominally at or just above freezing (i.e. 0° C), 
but there is a fair range around that, especially toward the higher end, 
depending on its emissivity. It almost certainly will not be very cold. 
Space is not "cold". It is, of course, dominated by radiative heating 
and cooling. While it is radiating into something just barely above 
absolute zero, it is also absorbing the same amount of solar energy as a 
rock on the ground.


In most cases, I would expect a meteorite to be on the cold side when it 
impacts. The heating that occurs during its brief ablative phase will 
have almost no effect on its internal temperature. But it will spend 
several minutes falling through air at one or two hundred meters per 
second, and for almost all of that time the air will be on the order of 
-40° C. That will result in significant cooling of typical meteorites of 
a few hundred grams to a few kilograms.


I think that what can easily happen is that people who touch a freshly 
fallen meteorite actually experience cold as hot, due to their 
expectations. Whether we perceive something as hot or cold can be 
unrelated to the actual temperature. Remember that kids' game where you 
dare somebody to keep their back to you while you touch the back of 
their neck with a hot iron, and then actually touch them with an ice 
cube? Most people startle and believe you've burned them.


Chris

***
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Cloudbait Observatory
https://www.cloudbait.com

On 3/22/2021 1:37 PM, Eric Christensen via Meteorite-list wrote:

There was a recent discussion on a social media forum about a stone from the recent Punggur fall being warm enough on 
impact to melt a synthetic bedsheet.  I followed the discussion with interest but don't have an account on that 
platform - so wanted to post here.  The original poster also referenced the other recent Indonesian fall (Kolang), 
where a finder reported the stone felt as if it had been "cooked with sunlight".  There are many other 
references to freshly fallen meteorites being warm or hot to the touch, or sometimes cold to the touch.  The 
oft-repeated rebuttal is that meteoroids come from the icy void of space where they must be extremely cold, and that 
any brief heating experienced during the luminous ablative phase will dissipate during the few minutes of dark flight 
through the atmosphere.  Also, that the human brain will trick surprised finders into misinterpreting "very 
cold" for "very hot".  It seems to me that there's an obvious error in this argument - the initial 
condition of a meteoroid being very cold is not (necessarily) true.  In fact the opposite can be true - meteoroids (or 
asteroids) can actually be very hot prior to Earth impact.  "Cooked with sunlight" is an extremely good 
description.
Consider figure 1 from Delbo and Harris "Physical properties of near-Earth asteroids 
from thermal infrared observations and thermal modeling", published in 2002 in MAPS:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10./j.1945-5100.2002.tb01174.x

The sunlight side of a model asteroid at 1 AU has a temperature of about 400 
Kelvin = 127 C = 260 F.  The side facing away from the sun will be cooler; how 
much cooler will depend on the thermal inertia of the body, pole orientation, 
rotation speed, etc.  There may be steep temperature gradients across an 
asteroid at impact time, or it may be relatively equilibrated.  Most meteorite 
droppers should fall into the latter category, being small (sub-meter), fast 
rotators, and regolith free.
How much heat is gained during ablation, and retained during dark flight, ought 
to depend on the thermal inertia of the meteorite.  Metal-rich meteorites or 
those with low porosity ought to retain more heat, and be less efficiently 
cooled during dark flight.
So - are fresh meteorites hot or cold on impact?  I think the answer is, "it 
depends!".  One could even contrive a set of circumstances where an asteroid with a 
large thermal gradient drops two meteorites of equal sizes right next to each other, 
coming from different parts of the asteroid, where one lands hot and the other lands 
cold.  Tarp-melting hot?  I don't see why not.  Cold enough to form frost?  Sure.  Hot 
enough to ignite a grass fire?  No.
Regards,
Eric Christensen



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Re: [meteorite-list] Fireball 'as bright as full moon' spotted in night sky over Japan

[Chris Peterson via Meteorite-list]

One over Colorado on Thanksgiving morning, as well. May have been 100 
times brighter than the full Moon. I've only recorded three fireballs 
this bright in 20 years. Exploded high, and over rough terrain, so not 
much hope of finding any surviving material. But an impressive event.


http://www.cloudbait.com/fireball.php?fb=fb/fb_2020-11-26x.dat

Chris

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On 11/29/2020 5:35 AM, Steinar Midtskogen via Meteorite-list wrote:

Another one peaking much, much brighter than the full moon last night:

  http://norskmeteornettverk.no/wordpress/?p=3187

  http://norskmeteornettverk.no/bilder/2020/ildkule-20201128.mp4

  
http://norskmeteornettverk.no/meteor/20201128/173801/trondheim/cam1/trondheim-20201128173757-gnomonic.mp4

Apparently quite audible along the coast north of Gothenburg, Sweden.
Visible from most of southern Sweden, southern Norway and Denmark
desipite cloudy conditions most places.

Shallow angle, possibly around 13 km/s entry speed.  It went to sea,
though.

-Steinar

drtanuki via Meteorite-list 
writes:


Fireball 'as bright as full moon' spotted in night sky over Japan

https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2020/11/1630e7941a64-fireball-as-bright-as-full-moon-spotted-in-night-sky-over-japan.html
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Re: [meteorite-list] Seismic Event w/ Bolide?

[Chris Peterson via Meteorite-list]

I'd also like to point out that the description of "magnitude 2.0" is 
rather sloppy. Seismographic magnitude scales (e.g. Richter, 
moment-magnitude) attempt to provide a measure of the energy released by 
an earth movement, at the epicenter, focus, or along the moving section. 
It is completely separate from a measurement of intensity (e.g. modified 
Mercalli scale). For a geological seismic event, the magnitude is fixed 
but the intensity varies with distance and various geological factors.


What the seismometer was directly measuring here was intensity. Perhaps 
by "magnitude 2.0" they meant the intensity was the same at the 
measurement station as what would have been recorded if it were at the 
epicenter of a magnitude 2.0 earthquake.


Anyway, the useful information is apparent in the actual data which show 
the signature in terms of ground velocity versus time. From that it is 
possible to derive actual information about the energy dissipated in the 
atmosphere and delivered to the ground.


Typical kinetic energies for fireball events like this may be on the 
order of 10^11 joules or more- say, 100 tons TNT equivalent.


Chris

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On 1/17/2018 9:34 AM, Greg Redfern wrote:

Thanks, Chris, that is what I thought.

2.0 - that is still some serious kinetic energy release.

With fresh snow on the ground those space rocks will stick out like a sore
thumb in open areas.

Good luck to all hunters.

Sky Guy Greg

Greg Redfern
NASA JPL Solar System Ambassador <http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/ssa/home.cfm>
Daily Blog <http://www.whatsupthespaceplace.com>
Twitter <https://twitter.com/SkyGuyinVA>
WTOP <http://wtop.com/section/tech/the-space-place-tech/>

On Wed, Jan 17, 2018 at 11:03 AM, Chris Peterson via Meteorite-list <
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> wrote:


It's not uncommon for large fireballs to produce seismic signatures.
They're created by atmospheric shock waves hitting the ground. The bodies
themselves are nowhere near large enough to reach the ground intact, so all
that kinetic energy never results in cratering. ("Never" as in "only every
few hundred or thousand years".)

Chris

***
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Cloudbait Observatory
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On 1/17/2018 7:22 AM, Greg Redfern via Meteorite-list wrote:


List,

Has there been other bolide events that have had a seismic correlation? It
is being reported that USGS recorded a 2.0 magnitude seismic event with
this morning's Michigan et al bolide event.

I would think that would have to equate to enough kinetic energy upon
impact of the main body to create a crater of some size.

Thoughts from experts like Mr. Matson ;-)

Thanks.

Sky Guy Greg



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Re: [meteorite-list] Seismic Event w/ Bolide?

[Chris Peterson via Meteorite-list]

It's not uncommon for large fireballs to produce seismic signatures. 
They're created by atmospheric shock waves hitting the ground. The 
bodies themselves are nowhere near large enough to reach the ground 
intact, so all that kinetic energy never results in cratering. ("Never" 
as in "only every few hundred or thousand years".)


Chris

***
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Cloudbait Observatory
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On 1/17/2018 7:22 AM, Greg Redfern via Meteorite-list wrote:

List,

Has there been other bolide events that have had a seismic correlation? It
is being reported that USGS recorded a 2.0 magnitude seismic event with
this morning's Michigan et al bolide event.

I would think that would have to equate to enough kinetic energy upon
impact of the main body to create a crater of some size.

Thoughts from experts like Mr. Matson ;-)

Thanks.

Sky Guy Greg


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Re: [meteorite-list] Another fireball

[Chris Peterson via Meteorite-list]

Almost certainly not a Taurid.

Chris

***
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Cloudbait Observatory
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On 11/17/2017 1:40 PM, Finbarr Connolly via Meteorite-list wrote:

Hello,

These Taurid fireballs are really putting on a show, here's yet another one
-

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/science-environment-42033792/fireball-in-finland-sky-probably-a-meteorite

Finbarr



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Re: [meteorite-list] RSVP Ongoing rants

[Chris Peterson via Meteorite-list]

No, this isn't spam in the usual sense. It's clearly directed towards 
meteor and meteorite people- long rants about how unfair the meteorite 
classification system is. It's somebody who is very disgrunted, or 
mentally ill. Or both.


Chris

***
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

On 8/14/2017 12:29 PM, John Lutzon via Meteorite-list wrote:


Anne, Michael, et al

I've mentioned this problem for a couple of years - when this happened to me...
In my case, I would receive emails for aluminum siding, watches, food markets
etc. But all to Canadian companies. Luckily, for me, no rants or commentary.
Mine had the name of a bonified List member as the sender.

I'll surmise that this list member's address book was hacked and was parceled 
out
either in its entirety or by the A's, B's C's etc.  Blood/ Black. Mine always 
included
a string of "J" list member addresses with it. First name/last name ??. I did 
notify the original
list member that his address book appeared to have been compromised.

Fix ? don't see how to except to block. If yours do show a List members name as 
the
sender-- I would notify them that they may have been hacked.

John


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Re: [meteorite-list] RSVP Ongoing rants

[Chris Peterson via Meteorite-list]

A weird little dialog between that sender and another at yeah.net has 
been getting sent to the IMO info email address for the last week or so. 
Complete lunacy, apparently.


Chris

***
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

On 8/12/2017 2:18 PM, Michael Blood via Meteorite-list wrote:

I addressed this once but NO ONE responded…

Are other members of the list getting extremely long
Winded rants and raves that are anti-Meteoritical Society
from "Mary ” ?

If so, does ANYONE have any ideas about how to make this
...(Person)  remove me/us from his email list?

RSVP

Thanks,
Michael Blood
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Re: [meteorite-list] Hello From Joann

[Chris Peterson via Meteorite-list]

If you see a meteor that appears to strike the ground, it's probably 
over 100 miles away. Maybe much more. That's because they stop burning 
when they're a few tens of miles high.


Chris

***
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

On 7/22/2016 11:44 AM, Joanne Barton via Meteorite-list wrote:

 Don,t know who to talk to ,In June Was Standing Outside Looking Up To The Sky 
,While Waiting For A Friend Get Off Work ,At 8.30PM  While looking up here 
coming down by me is a shooting star ,couldn,t believe it !!! Like slow motion 
the tail with white ,red ,blue ,in color went down while my friend came out 
told him and showed him where at between to building ,So he and I went out 
Saturday to look on the hill for it ,Robert said I need  A metal detector ,I 
just want to know what showers was going on JUNE 29th or JULY 1st Do you know 
?THANK YOU ! JOANN


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Re: [meteorite-list] Hot vs Cold again...wasmMeteorite Crashes Through Thailand House Roof

[Chris Peterson via Meteorite-list]

The fusion crust will likely be warmer than the interior when the 
meteorite hits. Not because of residual heat from melting, but because 
for the last few tens of seconds of the fall the meteorite was being 
blasted with near-ambient temperature air. It was starting to warm up to 
ambient- it simply didn't have enough time for that process to proceed 
beyond the outer few millimeters.


Chris

***
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

On 6/29/2016 1:29 AM, Graham Ensor via Meteorite-list wrote:

Elton...I agree with most of thatbut the cooling starts straight after
hot flight miles up where the air temperature is around -30 -50
deg...surely any heat in the fusion crust would dissipate very quickly up
there and then the interior temperature would then equalize to bring it
down to well below freezing as it free-falls with minimum friction to
change thatso my thinking is that even the fusion crust would also be
very cold on landing unless somehow the friction from punching the hole
heats the surface briefly...but I doubt that it would last more than a
fraction of a second.

Graham


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Re: [meteorite-list] Hot vs. Cold again...

[Chris Peterson via Meteorite-list]

Also important is to consider that the body in space may well have been 
a good fraction of a meter (or more) across. But a meteorite producing 
body didn't just ablate, it most likely fragments. And the small 
fragments very, very rapidly drop below the speed necessary to sustain 
ablation. So what we have left is fragments that are probably a bit 
below freezing being blasted for several minutes with very cold air. 
Small fragments means not much volume, but lots of surface area, so the 
heat transfer is pretty efficient.


It's hard to imagine a scenario where a meteorite is warm on landing. 
The interior will be cold, and the outer few millimeters might be near 
ambient, simply because of the warmer air encountered over the last 
minute or so of dark flight. But within a minute I'd expect the outside 
to get colder again because of transfer to the cold interior.


Chris

***
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

On 6/28/2016 10:10 PM, Rob Matson via Meteorite-list wrote:

Hi Elton,


Any body arriving from space is at least -60�c and closer to -120�c to -180�c 
based on
some black body studies of asteroids-- IIRC


The temperature for a typical earth-crossing asteroid with a chondritic 
composition is
actually likely to be warmer than this -- perhaps -20 C. Depends on how "black" 
the
original meteoroid was. Equilibrium temperatures for irons are quite a bit 
warmer.


The radiative cooling during dark flight is probably calculable and a missing 
factor in
estimating the state of heat content upon landing.


Not just a missing factor -- perhaps the dominant factor. 3-5 seconds of 
ablation is nothing
compared to 2-8 minutes of freefall through atmospheric temperatures as low as
-70 C. Basically you have a frozen, baked Alaska situation:  pre-atmosphere, a 
cold body
through and through. Then (in the case of non-irons), you expose this 
low-thermal-
conductivity mass to a brief blast of extreme heat that boils off the exterior 
almost as
fast as the heat can be conducted to the cold interior. Bur almost as soon as 
it starts, it's
over. You have a thin crust of hot material surrounding the still ice-cold 
interior. And for
the final act, you refreeze the exterior for a time period 20 to 100 times 
longer than
the ablative phase. For stony meteorites, there just isn't enough time to raise 
the
bulk temperature of the body.

So I disagree with this statement:

"An immediately-recovered, newly-fallen silicate/stony meteorite is 
usually--but briefly
"hot/uncomfortably warm" to the touch. The rind is very hot but lacks much heat 
reservoir."

As long as there is an extended period of freefall through the atmosphere (a 
very
reasonable assumption for non-cratering events), atmospheric cooling will 
always win out
for a stony meteorite.  --Rob


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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Crashes Through Thailand House Roof

[Chris Peterson via Meteorite-list]

There's really no way for such a stone to be heated significantly by the 
energy dissipated when crashing through a roof.


In all likelihood, the reason that observed falls are reported as hot is 
because people expect hot, and confuse hot with cold. I don't think the 
incidence of reports of heat is significantly higher for hammers than 
for other falls.


FWIW, when you pull a nail the mass of the nail is very small, it has a 
high surface area compared with its volume, it's thermally conductive, 
the extraction is relatively slow, and the friction is very high. 
Contrast that with a meteorite: much smaller surface area compared with 
volume, low thermal conductivity, very high speed of impact, and very 
little friction (with most of the surface never even contacting the roof).


Chris

***
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

On 6/28/2016 2:29 PM, Peter Scherff via Meteorite-list wrote:

Hi Tom,

Yes, I think so. There are too many reports of meteorites being hot to the
touch. Those reports are almost always about meteorites that have punched
through something (building, vehicle or ground). I trust this mass of
anecdotal evidence. But we won't know for sure until some starts shooting
rocks through buildings for their doctoral thesis.

Thanks,

Peter

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Re: [meteorite-list] Very Bright Fireball Over Europe on Halloween Night

[Chris Peterson via Meteorite-list]

Hi Doug-

I don't think atmospheric extinction normally plays much of a role in 
color perception of bright meteors. You don't get a full magnitude 
difference between red and blue until you are about 15° above the 
horizon, or about four air masses. And even at a magnitude difference, 
I'd only expect a small impact on perceived color.


Angle, however, translates to apparent speed, and I do think that might 
be an important factor in how people perceive color. I will say, 
however, that I haven't found any sort of systematic shift in color 
reports based on the distance from the fireball to the witness.


Chris

***
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

On 11/4/2015 8:25 PM, Doug Ross wrote:

Thanks for the very informative and interesting discussion. Could the altitude, 
angle and distance from which a meteor is viewed also affect perceived color? 
Seems to me that the air between the fireball and the witness might 
significantly filter the colors, in the same way that the sun can appear red at 
sunset, viewed at a low angle through more atmosphere.

Doug Ross


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Re: [meteorite-list] Witness information that is more helpful than color

[Chris Peterson via Meteorite-list]

I seek color in submitted witness reports, not necessarily to provide 
additional scientific information (although it's data, so I wouldn't 
completely rule out that possibility), but rather, to understand how 
people see things differently, and to make for a more complete public 
report, since public education about fireball events is part of our 
function. Meteor color is as much a part of the phenomenon as 
brightness, speed, fragmentation, and everything else. The fact that we 
can't directly convert color into composition doesn't mean we shouldn't 
include this information in a complete report.


Chris

***
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

On 11/4/2015 4:48 PM, Matson, Rob D. via Meteorite-list wrote:

Hi John,

I think there are definitely things that can be learned by looking at the 
spectroscopy
of fireball emissions, but of course such data are rare. And human 
eyeballs/brains
are a poor substitute. We don't have the necessary spectral resolution, and of 
course
the optical response is far from flat. It is perhaps not coincidental that 
green-blue
(0.498 microns) is the peak of our scotopic response. Deep red (>0.63 microns)
sensitivity is almost non-existent in scotopic vision, so even if a fireball 
had a
significant red component, a much smaller green component would swamp it just
due to our spectral response.

Since nothing really diagnostic can be learned from a witness's perception of a
fireball's color (as far as the meteoroid's composition is concerned), I see 
little
point in asking them or encouraging them to report it. The next best thing
that a novice witness can report (other than an accurate time and duration)
is the slope of the meteor track relative to the horizon -- perhaps using a
clockface analogy to avoid scary geometry. If I know the approximate fall
zone reasonably accurately, a distant observer's slope approximation can
greatly narrow down the true flight bearing, even without azimuth information
(which can already be inferred from their location relative to the fall with
greater accuracy than they can report).

Mike Hankey has put together some very nice tools on the AMS site for
amateurs to contribute useful information, concentrating on those things
that non-technical people are reasonably good at. With enough witnesses,
the average solution can sometimes be fairly accurate, even if the individual
reports are all over the place.  --Rob


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Re: [meteorite-list] Very Bright Fireball Over Europe on Halloween Night

[Chris Peterson via Meteorite-list]

Meteor color is important. It's just not a very useful measure for 
determining composition. Color changes with meteor speed and meteor 
depth in the atmosphere. And certainly, the composition is a factor, 
both in terms of chemical composition and bulk properties. But the 
relationship is complex, so there's no simple correlation between these 
things and color that we can make much use of.


Common groups of factors tend to lead to common colors, which is why we 
see specific colors with specific showers.


Chris

***
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

On 11/4/2015 3:16 PM, kashuba via Meteorite-list wrote:

Rob, Marco,

OK, so color isn't important.  But why the different colors?  Not green
can't mean no oxygen. Is the green overwhelmed by other colors?  Why?

- John

John Kashuba
Bend, Oregon


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Re: [meteorite-list] Very Bright Fireball Over Europe on Halloween Night

[Chris Peterson via Meteorite-list]

The whole issue of meteor color is complex. We now have many examples of 
high resolution meteor spectra... but "color" is a physiological 
phenomenon that isn't always easy to relate to physical spectra.


The light of meteors consists mostly of thermally broadened atomic 
emission lines- lots of them- from both the meteoritic material and the 
atmosphere. As has been noted, the atmospheric contributions tend to 
dominate. But there are often strong lines from meteoritic material, as 
well. In the case of large fireballs (where we have much less 
spectroscopic data) there may be a blackbody contribution as well, 
either from the ablating surface or from a supercompressed plasma. And 
since this is mostly driven by thermal effects, the speed of the body 
makes a big difference in perceived color. Throw into all of this the 
complexities of human vision- differences in retinal response, 
persistence effects, psychological effects given typically short 
observation times- and it's little wonder this entire area remains 
poorly understood.


After large fireballs, when I get many witness reports submitted, I 
review color. It's common for about half the witnesses who report color 
to agree on one in particular (green is by far the most common), while 
the other half see red, orange, yellow, or blue.


My takeaway is that we should generally assume that most color is coming 
from atmospheric contributions, probably modified slightly by meteoritic 
components (often too subtly for people to report accurately), and that 
above all, it's almost impossible to make any assumptions about 
meteoroid composition from color.


Chris

***
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

On 11/4/2015 5:21 AM, Beatty, Kelly via Meteorite-list wrote:

Marco, Rob...

this discussion is timely. what you've noted is exactly my understanding. just 
yesterday I came across a high-profile blog about these fireballs, and the 
writer stated that most of the light comes from the superheated vaporized 
particle as it ablates. suspecting this was wrong, I looked in several places 
for the correct information -- IMO, AMS, RASC Handbook, etc -- and yet I didn't 
really find the physics spelled out explicitly. (maybe I was looking in the 
wrong places?) the closest I came was this post by Peter Jenniskens 
(http://leonid.arc.nasa.gov/meteor.html), which was equivocal.

clear skies,
Kelly

***
J. Kelly Beatty
Senior Editor, Sky & Telescope
SkyandTelescope.com
(a division of F+W, a Content + eCommerce Company)

617-864-7360 x22168
@NightSkyGuy


-Original Message-
From: Meteorite-list [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On 
Behalf Of Rob Matson via Meteorite-list
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 3:54 AM
To: 'meteorite-list'
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Very Bright Fireball Over Europe on Halloween 
Night

HI All,

Marco took the words out of my mouth. Getting tired of hearing that a green 
meteor tells you anything about its composition. I know that it's natural for 
people to think the most important thing they can report about a meteor is its 
color, but I wish various broadcast media would do the public a service and 
disabuse them of this notion. It would be far better if witnesses could be 
trained to get in the habit of counting the duration accurately, and noting the 
exact time of the meteor to the nearest minute. Seeing as how almost everyone 
has a cell phone these days, and all cell phones have accurate clocks, there 
really is no excuse to get the time wrong. Yet even a casual browse of the AMS 
fireball site reveals that people clearly don't think getting the time right is 
important. And even more obvious is that most people have no business reporting 
anything about fireball starting and ending bearings and elevation angles.  
--Rob

-Original Message-
From: Meteorite-list [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On 
Behalf Of Marco Langbroek via Meteorite-list
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 12:06 AM
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; baa...@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Very Bright Fireball Over Europe on Halloween 
Night


A lot of folks say it looked green to them, which means it may have
been metallic;



It is a perpetuated misunderstanding that meteor colours are primarily due to 
their composition. It's a science myth inspired by High School Bunsen burner 
experiments that appears hard to kill.

While composition in some cases does have some influence on the colour, it is 
actually the composition of the atmosphere that is usually dominant for our 
perception of meteor colours.

That certainly is true for green colours. Meteor spectra show that meteors usually are 
very strong at the "forbidden" Oxygen line at 5577 Angstrom (557.7 nm). This 
line is due to atmospheric Oxygen, the same atmospheric Oxygen exitation line also 
responsible for the green colours of Aurora.

Re: [meteorite-list] Did I Capture Bolide During SpaceX Launch?

[Chris Peterson via Meteorite-list]

Look closely at the full resolution video and you can see the meteor's 
wings flapping!


Chris

***
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

On 4/16/2015 10:48 PM, Stephen Thompson via Meteorite-list wrote:

Nice catch !!..The motion, speed, relative brightness, brief train... all 
look correct for a meteor.  I'm not even one
of the so called experts here, but you clearly snagged a daytime meteor in your 
video.

I hope you had as much fun at the launch as I have had at many since Apollo 17.

Congrats,
Steve


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Re: [meteorite-list] Science Journal: Earth's water didn't come from comets, scientists now say

[Chris Peterson via Meteorite-list]

There is nothing definitive about it. The paper describes many factors 
that could change the D/H ratio in different samples, and is much more 
cautious in its conclusions than the typical press reports suggest:


From the ROSINA measurements on comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko, we 
conclude that the D/H values of JFCs [Jupiter family comets] may be 
highly heterogeneous, possibly reflecting the diverse origins of JFCs. 
If this is the case, then the new measurement supports models advocating 
an asteroidal (i.e., carbonaceous chondrite-like), rather than cometary 
origin for the oceans, and by extension for the terrestrial atmosphere.


Chris

***
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

On 12/12/2014 1:50 PM, Michael Mulgrew via Meteorite-list wrote:

I am curious how such a definitive conclusion can be reached from the
analysis of a singular cometary body?  How many comets are out there
floating around the solar system?  I guess they are assuming all
comets have the same make-up?  Seems a bit short sighted to me,
considering, for example, how diverse asteroidal composition is.
Imagine if we landed a probe on one asteroid, then extrapolated the
results of that landing to apply to all asteroids, what a gross
neglect of diversity that would be.

Hopefully I'm missing something here and someone will chime in and
explain it to me.

Michael in so. Cal.


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Re: [meteorite-list] Video of meteor smoke ring

[Chris Peterson via Meteorite-list]

It's certainly real. That's a typical meteor train dissipation pattern.

Chris

***
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

On 11/19/2014 7:17 PM, Robert Woolard via Meteorite-list wrote:

List,

One of our local radio stations posted this link to a short video captured by an amateur astronomer 
that, if real (??),  seems to show a meteor producing a pretty cool  smoke ring upon 
disintegration and/or the train being twisted around by high altitude winds.  The train it produced 
appears to have lasted for several minutes in this sped up video.  I have had trouble in the past 
with my email provider in getting links to go thru to the list if I type it intact, so 
you will need to enter it as below, but obviously without any spaces at all between any of the 
parts. If you haven't seen this before, and if this is real event and not just computer generated, 
it is pretty cool, and only 10 secs long.

Robert Woolard

http://   vim eo.  com/  110535098


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Re: [meteorite-list] CO WY Meteor Approx. 2230 MDT 02SEP2014 long duration/fragmentation

[Chris Peterson via Meteorite-list]

I caught this nearly overhead from central Colorado on my camera. I 
believe it was probably the decaying COSMOS 2495 (Norad 39732). I should 
have two angles on it tomorrow confirming that this was not a meteor.


Chris

***
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

On 9/3/2014 3:01 PM, drtanuki via Meteorite-list wrote:

List,
CO WY Meteor Approx. 2230 MDT 02SEP2014

Long Duration w/ Fragmenttion!  Possible satellite re-entry? OR Meteorites 
PRODUCED?
http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.jp/2014/09/co-wy-meteor-02sep2014.html
Dirk Ross...Tokyo


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Re: [meteorite-list] Ohio man: Meteorite broke my Buick

[Chris Peterson via Meteorite-list]

Nope, I think not.

Chris

***
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

On 5/27/2014 4:52 PM, Art Jones via Meteorite-list wrote:

In the news from this am:

An Ohio man believes a meteorite hit his car early Sunday morning. Joe Massa of 
Kettering, Ohio, said he was driving home in the center lane on I-75 North when 
his Buick was struck by something around 2 a.m...

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/national/kettering-man-meteorite-broke-my-buick

-Art


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Re: [meteorite-list] List change

[Chris Peterson via Meteorite-list]

It may depend on the choice of email client. I'm not seeing any 
differences (using Thunderbird). I still see the sender in the From 
field. If I click Reply it still goes to the sender. If I click Reply 
all it still goes to the list and everyone else. If I click Reply 
list (which I'm using here) it just goes to the list email. No need to 
manually paste anything in.


Chris

***
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

On 5/9/2014 7:09 AM, Peter Scherff via Meteorite-list wrote:

Good Afternoon List;

The recent list issues regarding several email providers (Yahoo, AOL, etc.)
seem to be behind us and I have re-enabled all of those accounts.  Thanks to
input from Bob Falls I was able to take advantage of some changes my service
provider put into place and this should take care of the bounce problems.

Hi  Michael,

Here is a copy of an e-mail from Art:

The only downside from this fix is that if you click Reply or Reply All
to a posting the reply will only go to the member and not back to the list
as well.  If you would like to reply to an email and have it go to the list
as well please paste the list address meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
into the To field.  I apologize for this inconvenience and hopefully this
issue will be fixed as well at some point.

So remember, when replying to a list email that you want the list copied on,
please paste meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com into the To field.

Thanks again to IMCA's Bob Falls!

Best Regards, Art

Art Jones
Meteorite Central

-Original Message-
From: Meteorite-list [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On
Behalf Of Michael Blood via Meteorite-list
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2014 8:57 AM
To: Meteorite List
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] List change

Yesterday there seemed to be a BIG change in the list...
All posts were identified as coming from Meteorite List
Instead of from the sender as it has always done before.

Does anyone know why? It made it Much easier in the Past to quickly decide
what posts you wanted to read And often which you didn't care to read - or
which first, Etc.

I always read every post Bernd, Anne Black, Pual Harris, And several other
wrote, usually read most of the others And rarely read some and never read a
few (over the years).

This new system makes it so you don't know who wrote What until you are at
the end of the post and/or hit Resend All.

While one can still prioritize by topic one can no longer prioritize By
sender.

Is this temporary? Did I miss a post from Art about the change?
When I noticed it no one commented at all.
Whazzup?

Best to all,
Michael (Blood)



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