Re: [meteorite-list] UK/EU e-commerce tax party

2021-02-09 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Just catching up on my most favorite meteorite place in the universe. It looks 
to me like all the EU will have even stiffer bureaucracy than the UK starting 
July 1, 2021?

"be introduced in the EU from 1 July 2021 for consignments valued at less than 
€150"

Taxes are inherently a political football so 'No further comment.'


Cheers & keep the faith to my Continental and Isle European friends, and those 
who deal with them, 
Doug

-Original Message-
From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks via Meteorite-list 

To: Meteorite List 
Sent: Tue, Jan 12, 2021 11:39 am
Subject: [meteorite-list] All shipments to the UK are hereby suspended until 
further notice.

Hi List,

In light of new tax regulations brought on by Brexit in the UK, I will
no longer accept orders from the UK.

I don't want to do this, but it just isn't worth it for me to start
learning a whole new raft of regulations just to conduct a tiny sliver
of my business.

I have some good friends in the UK and I realize these new regulations
will impact their own ability to collect - it's probably a headache
for everyone involved.

Hopefully, cooler and more sensible heads will prevail and the UK will
reconsider this new policy. Until such a time, I cannot ship any more
orders to the UK.

Best regards and everybody try to keep your heads up in 2021.  :)

MikeG

-- 
---
Galactic Stone & Ironworks : www.galactic-stone.com
Meteorites, Ice Age Fossils, Minerals, and Artifacts
---
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Re: [meteorite-list] William H. Mason III

2020-08-10 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Bill was so kind to me as he was with everyone, and I will miss his always 
cheery smile. What a great person we've sadly lost. 
Kindest memories,
Doug


-Original Message-
From: tracie paleobond.com via Meteorite-list 

To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com 
Sent: Tue, Aug 4, 2020 1:26 pm
Subject: [meteorite-list] William H. Mason III

 It is with great sadness that we share our esteemed mentor and partnerWilliam 
H. Mason III passed peacefully Sunday evening August 2, 2020.Bill was a great 
friend and scientist. His contributions to the preservation of fossils,minerals 
and meteorites will be an everlasting legacy. He lived 88 years of fun, 
laughter and joyhelping people solve problems. He will be sorely missed by his 
friends and family.No plans have been made at this time due to Covid to honor 
him as a group.We encourage all of you to be kind and do something for your 
friend and neighbor in his honor.We’ll announce on the PaleoBOND website and 
facebook pagewhen a future celebration of his life will occur.Thank you in 
advance for your friendship and support of PaleoBOND for over the last 40 
years.John and I will strive to carry on in his footsteps.

Tracie Bennitt

PaleoBOND1067 E. US Highway 24 #191Woodland Park, CO 80863651-227-7000
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Re: [meteorite-list] In memoriam Darryl Futrell (+2001)

2019-08-14 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
October 26, 1935 - August 13, 2001

A humble giant for so many, and for all amateurs on a shoestring, especially 
with VW Beetles, excited by rocks! 

Cheers!
Doug

 I have been a rock collector since I was a kid, and that Bug finally provided 
me a car that would take me most anywhere in North America in my search for 
rare rocks.  Over the next two and a half decades, I drove my Beetles and 
related vehicles about 1.5 million miles on trips to Canada, Mexico, twice to 
Kentucky, twice to Georgia, about 10 times to eastern Texas, and several times 
to volcanic sites way up north. Also included were dozens of week-end trips to 
Southern California deserts to hunt meteorites on dry lakes.        

Best wishes,     
Bernd (in Germany)
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Re: [meteorite-list] greenland meteor strike

2019-03-21 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Thanks Bob, 

The BBC article was the only sane article in the bunch. Other UK sources were 
as crazy as our cable news broadcasters.

Reporting was crazy as both CNN and Foxnews were such a jumbled mess that any 
normal person could not follow since the videos accompanying the story top 
center were old videos with a new story text below -- and one would never know, 
and more likely think the videos wer ethe new story. CNN may have just followed 
Foxnews (or Fox copied them) in that the energy CNN originally quoted for the 
new event, incorrectly quoted the prior event energy, so CNN was flat wrong. 
MSNBC appears to have gotten the story right, but sensationalized it so badly 
that it appeared it was the Chelyabinsk explosion with their old video which, 
like Foxnews, would easily be confused with the actual new event, complete with 
people running and screaming. *SMH*

I was curious about Ron because he inadvertently started the ball rolling on 
the Greenland converted Thule/nuclear war event, and last time I checked his 
Twitter it was suspended, which seemed really odd, unless he got in trouble for 
just having a personal account with his JPL credentials unexpectedly pulling 
JPL into the mix of "experts" that were sources for the latest Chicken Little 
story!

 "A fireball was detected over Greenland on July 25, 2018 by US Government 
sensors at an altitude of 43.3 km. The energy from the explosion is estimated 
to be 2.1 kilotons. pic.twitter.com/EePuk14Pqd"
— Rocket Ron (@RonBaalke) July 31, 2018

So the media then ran with him as a spokesman of sorts from JPL's Solar 
Dynamics Laboratory, after Hans Kristensen, is the Director of Nuclear 
Information at the Federation of American Scientists replied to it setting the 
stage for the feeding frenzy. For example, from 
https://theoutline.com/post/5708/what-if-that-meteor-was-aliens?zd=1=zocrn74m

"The news of the explosion appears to have originated from Ron Baalke of NASA’s 
Jet Propulsion Laboratory (see the first of the two tweets above), and 
eventually made its way to a scientist whose handle is @nukestrat (see the 
second tweet), who pretty strongly implied that a meteor exploding near an Air 
Force base almost plunged us into nuclear war. @nukestrat, aka Hans Kristensen, 
is the Director of Nuclear Information at the Federation of American 
Scientists, so it makes sense that he would offer nuke-related commentary about 
whichever news story, pretty much whenever. But it seems as if his tweet began 
a weird feedback loop in which news outlets kept wondering why the Air Force 
didn’t acknowledge the explosion in the first place, giving the overall 
impression that something super fishy was going on.

This is how conspiracy theories start in 2018, I guess — with commentary that 
quickly spirals into context collapse."

Best Regards,
Doug



-Original Message-
From: Robert Verish 
To: MexicoDoug ; cetu...@shaw.ca ; 
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com 
Sent: Tue, Mar 19, 2019 11:35 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] greenland meteor strike

Hello Doug, 
Just to be clear, I was replying in regards to Paul Gessler's post and his 
title "greenland meteor strike", making it clear that the articles he 
referenced were about the Bering Sea meteor in December and not about the 
Greenland Meteor in July, (even though the Fox "News" used an old, meteor video 
involving the military base near Greenland in July).  
Contrary to the description accompanying that older FOX video, the US Air Force 
were the first to notify NASA about the December fireball over the Bering Sea.
I just figured that Paul's post (and title) and the reference to BOTH the BBC 
and Fox "News" articles (and their stark differences) were his Canadian-polite 
way of rubbing our collective US noses in our own "do-do" that is now US 
internet "journalism". 
With best regards, Bob V. P.S. - I must admit that I have no knowledge of Ron 
Baalke's status at JPL.
 


On Tuesday, March 19, 2019 1:00 PM, MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list 
 wrote:
  

 I saw the the same sensationalized story written up as a CNN report today:

"A meteor exploded in the Earth's atmosphere with 10 times the energy of the 
Hiroshima atomic bomb",

and CNN's article has buildings shaking and glass breaking on the autoplay 
video on top of the page (from Chelyabinsk).

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/18/us/meteor-blast-fireball-explosion-nasa-space-trnd/index.html

and they even screwed up the size of the explosion (since been revised in the 
story, ironic since the title was about the energy that then needed 
correction)! 

MSNBC did a slightly longer sensational version, which was interesting for a 
casual reader,

" Meteor blast over Russia's Bering Sea packed 10 times the power of Hiroshima 
bomb"

https://www.msn.com/en-sg/news/techandscience/meteor-blast-over-russia-s-bering-sea-packed-10-times-the-power-of-

Re: [meteorite-list] greenland meteor strike

2019-03-19 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
I saw the the same sensationalized story written up as a CNN report today:

"A meteor exploded in the Earth's atmosphere with 10 times the energy of the 
Hiroshima atomic bomb",

and CNN's article has buildings shaking and glass breaking on the autoplay 
video on top of the page (from Chelyabinsk).

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/18/us/meteor-blast-fireball-explosion-nasa-space-trnd/index.html

and they even screwed up the size of the explosion (since been revised in the 
story, ironic since the title was about the energy that then needed 
correction)! 

MSNBC did a slightly longer sensational version, which was interesting for a 
casual reader,

" Meteor blast over Russia's Bering Sea packed 10 times the power of Hiroshima 
bomb"

https://www.msn.com/en-sg/news/techandscience/meteor-blast-over-russia-s-bering-sea-packed-10-times-the-power-of-hiroshima-bomb/ar-BBUWcVc

To be fair, the BBC was a source of the report for all three of the cable 
"news" networks, where the unifying thread is only US cable news "journalism" 
which we all know is entertaining. 
Wonder what the discussion groups in say India, thing about our news.

Also, wonder how "Rocket Man" Ron Baalke a former active list member at JPL, 
who is missed, got suspended and if it was related to setting off the 
sensational narrative on the Greenland defense base last year? Bob?

Cheers,
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Robert Verish via Meteorite-list 
To: Paul Gessler ; Paul Gessler via Meteorite-list 
; meteorite-list 

Sent: Mon, Mar 18, 2019 2:33 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] greenland meteor strike

Regarding the Bering Sea meteor strike, the difference between the BBC 
reporting, versus the Fox"News" story, is the difference between a factual 
accounting, and another example of  anxiety-inducing "fake news". 

https://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2019/Bob V. 
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
   On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 3:07 AM, Paul Gessler via 
Meteorite-list wrote:   Apparently a large 
event has been detected in Greenland approximating the 
energy of Chelyabinsk.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-47607696
https://www.foxnews.com/science/us-detects-meteor-explosion-10-times-the-energy-as-atomic-bomb-report

paul gessler 


---
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Re: [meteorite-list] Educational presentations at Tucson?

2019-03-12 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
" I've not seen any proposals like this, but it's possible I have missed those 
threads.  If so, I would appreciate hearing about any "lessons learned" from 
previous attempts."

Hi Michael,

Time at Tucson is at a premium, and the purpose of it is to get around and see 
what's there. Tucson is an exciting place and there is just too much to see. 
While some people may have the luxury of time on their hands, with the Internet 
at everyone's disposal, you'd have to design things to really be fun or 
interesting, IMO.

We have had events at Tucson before so that is not at all true. Just not really 
a series of seminars and such. But we had Blood's auction and the Gold Basin 
Party, IMCA dinner, Parties organized by members of the community, and it is 
common for groups to get together for dinners for time to catch up with each 
other. What all these things had in common was that everyone was invited or can 
do them, they are fun, and they require no real time commitment. After all, we 
also have/had  resources like Meteorite! a now defunct magazine, we have a 
world class online publication Meteorite-Times.com, the list for discussion 
where everyone chimes in, though Facebook seems to have taken some critical 
mass from that. By all means, go for it if you would like to be a force in the 
community doing this! Just don't be surprised if the response is attenuated due 
to all the competing things going on, after all ... being in Tucson during the 
show is a pretty hands on collecting, trading, swapping experience and that's 
mostly why those from out of toown make the pilgrimage.

Hope this helps add to your thinking
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Michael Doran via Meteorite-list 
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com 
Sent: Tue, Mar 12, 2019 3:52 pm
Subject: [meteorite-list] Educational presentations at Tucson?

In my previous life as a systems librarian at a university, I regularly 
attended conferences and user group meetings.  An integral aspect of these 
conferences/meetings were educational presentations done by attendees. It 
occurred to me that presentations are something that might enhance the 
experience of attending the Tucson Show.  

For example, while I know that there's nothing I can teach the old hands, there 
are a number of things I'm figuring out as a newbie that I think would be of 
interest to other newbies.  Here are examples of presentations I would be 
willing to do, if the opportunity presented itself:

1) Meteorite collection development plans: what they are and why you should 
have one

2) Meteorite storage and display solutions for small (< 40 specimen) collections

And as an *attendee* I would really be interested in presentations from people 
doing actual meteorite science about the work they are doing (geared towards an 
educated lay audience).  Also, I would be interested in presentations from 
dealers about various aspects of meteorite acquisition, classification, and 
preparation.

To make this work would require:

A meeting room
--
A meeting room at one of the main meteorite venues at the Tucson Show that for 
certain times/days could be devoted to presentations.  The room would need to 
have a basic presentation set-up: a speaker's table and/or podium with a way to 
connect a computer to a projector and chairs for the audience.  The Tucson show 
lasts two weeks, but I would anticipate that the presentations part would only 
be for one or maybe two days.

Organization

Someone to:
- Put out a call for presenters, and
- Based on response, determine how many time slots were needed, and
- Assign presentations to time slots in schedule and notify presenters, and
- Put out a presentation schedule with titles/abstracts prior to Tucson show
- Prepare meeting room for presentations
- Assist presenters with use of meeting room equipment

While the organization of this could be done by volunteers (I would be willing 
to volunteer my time), reserving a meeting room would incur a cost.  Perhaps 
the IMCA would have funds in their budget to subsidize this and would consider 
taking this on. Another option would be to charge a nominal registration fee to 
attend this "seminar" portion of the show.  Again, I think this would only last 
a day or maybe two.

If you think this idea has merit, I have some questions for you...

As an attendee, what topics in meteoritics and/or meteorite collecting would 
you be interested in learning about?

Would you consider being a presenter?  If so, what topic(s) would you consider 
doing a presentation on?

Would you be willing to pay a registration fee to attend a short 
meteoritics/meteorite collecting seminar during the Tucson show?

If you would rather respond directly to me rather than the list, I can 
compile/summarize those responses for the list.

Thank you,

-- Michael

ps I've spent a fair amount of time going through the Meteorite Central list 
archive.  I've not seen any proposals like this, but it's 

Re: [meteorite-list] 'Heart-shaped' meteorite - Worth more than my house in Costa Rica?

2019-02-22 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Incredible. 
Thanks Anne, we were trying high and low to figure out what happened there and 
there were only crickets on the Internet! If true, Christie's deserves eggs and 
vegetables lobbed all over their faces!

As for the "worth" of any meteorite though, Kevin, there really is no market 
sale price, in my opinion, I think I read it in an Artful book once and agreed 
... On a (astro)geological timescale, we are all just renters and custodians 
and it's all about desire and wonder about our cosmic connection but I'll keep 
the rest of my 2 ctvos of philosophy where it belongs  ;-)

Que viva Allende!
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Anne Black via Meteorite-list 
To: marsrox ; meteorite-list 

Sent: Fri, Feb 22, 2019 8:56 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 'Heart-shaped' meteorite - Worth more than my 
house in Costa Rica?



Here is your answer Kevin. Enjoy!  :-(((
 
https://onlineonly.christies.com/s/deep-impact-martian-lunar-other-rare-meteorites/lots/1623#browse-lots
 
As for the heart-shaped iron, it was pulled from the auction. It was a Taza, 
not a Sikhote-Alin as represented. And I am sure your house is worth more 
anyway.
 

Anne Black
IMPACTIKA.com
impact...@aol.com


 
 
-Original Message-
From: Kevin Kichinka via Meteorite-list 
To: meteorite-list 
Sent: Thu, Feb 21, 2019 5:51 pm
Subject: [meteorite-list] 'Heart-shaped' meteorite - Worth more than my house 
in Costa Rica?



Team Meteorite:


(Not yet for sale) - Lux 1/1 120m2 cabina on 1750m2 of mountaintop at 1000m 
altitude in western Costa Rica. Perfect, always spring-like climate. Coffee 
removed and replaced with multiple tropical fruits and grafted Haas avocados 
thriving on manicured terraces sloping down to rain forest. Sits on huge 
aquifer generating endless water. Best sunset views in the country (Pacific 
Ocean). Separate rancho for witnessing Scarlet Macaw fly-overs and up to a 
dozen toucans sitting in the next tree. Double, concrete-block garage built to 
same earthquake-resistant standards as house and designed to be two more 
bedrooms and bath. Quartzite countertops, marble shower and coral-rock 
fireplace. Spanish floor tiles, wood ceiling beams throughout. The 17th century 
window 'bars' copied from a cathedral in Nimes, France were crafted by the same 
Italian brothers that did these on my first home here, 'LaQ'. Fifteen running 
meters of panoramic windows rise up to the 4.5m high ceilings, offering 
dramatic close-up views of mountains cascading-to-the-sea. Property located at 
the end of a dirt road and is hidden behind block wall for complete privacy 
(and security). Sat and cable TV, high-speed internet.


But in the always slow CR real estate market full of such 'trophy properties', 
getting $300,000 cash, same as the expected low-bid on the Iron meteorite 
Darryl offered for V-Day, would be difficult. 


Does anyone know what the Iron brought at last week's Christie's auction? 
Curious


Saludos a todo.


Kevin Kichinka
mars...@gmail.com
"The Art of collecting Meteorites", an ebook on Amazon.

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Re: [meteorite-list] Art Ehlmann's memorial service

2017-08-27 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
cc: ==> met-list share.

Dear Rhiannon,

With a heavy heart I hope you can receive as well as forward
my condolences to Carol and all of Art's friends and extended family. 

Art was the most generous and encouraging curator I can
contemplate, thoroughly engrossed and enjoying his profession.
Art inspired me when we met several times, and that generosity 
continues to inspire me today in it special way. 

Not only did he invite me into TCU's museum, but he and Carol
kindly had me over for dinner on an occasion and I thoroughly
enjoyed our conversations, which if I recalled, those migrated 
between meteorites to wild birds and then flew back some.

Please find attached three images I would like to share. 

#A is the three of us having a bite to eat in a cafe on campus I
believe you know well; 
#B is a picture inside the museum of a meteorite I had a long
and happy discussion with Art about, the pallasite Otinapa; and 
#C was Art in his infinite enthusiasm and generosity - driving 
me to Dallas to catch a bus home.  I always liked due to the 
three way reflections and Art's pleasant smile.

Art is now en-route to that place where we all eventually go, 
and he will be missed by those temporarily left behind.
 
I know we will eventually meet our mercurial gazes again 
in the living exhibition of the sky, and rest our feet upon a 
fascinating and warming hearthstone together.

In celebration of his beautiful life, and with respect and prayers to 
Carol and family,
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Mayne, Rhiannon via Meteorite-list 
To: meteorite-list 
Sent: Tue, Aug 22, 2017 5:40 pm
Subject: [meteorite-list] Art Ehlmann's memorial service

All the information I have so far:

Art Ehlmann's memorial will be on Monday August 28th at 2pm in the Robert Carr 
Chapel at TCU. There will be a reception at the Monnig Meteorite Gallery 
afterwards. 

I know Carol would appreciate it if some of his meteorite friends attended. 

Best,
Rhiannon
  

Dr. Rhiannon Mayne 
Oscar and Juanita Monnig Chair of Meteoritics and Planetary Science 
Curator of the Oscar E. Monnig Meteorite Collection 
School of Geology, Energy, and the Environment, Sid Richardson Building, M16 
P: 817.257.4172 | TCU Box 298830
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[meteorite-list] NASA humiliates elderly engineer's widow

2017-04-14 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Maybe this guy can get a job at United when this deeply saddening case is over. 
 A reputable Apollo engineer's 74-year old widow fell on hard times and tries 
to sell a legal memento for $2000 to help with the mounting medical and child 
expenses (as a single grandmother who lost her daughter also) and then is 
abused by bureaucrats at NASA.  Original article from the Washington Post:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/04/14/humiliating-sting-operation-against-elderly-widow-of-apollo-engineer-draws-court-rebuke/?tid=hybrid_collaborative_2_na_term=.43e1a6b38f82


NASA ‘sting’ operation against 74-year-old widow of Apollo engineer draws court 
rebuke
By Fred Barbash April 14 at 4:34 AM

Joann Davis of Lake Elsinore, Calif., in 2011. (Sarah Burge/The 
Press-Enterprise via AP)

Agents of the U.S. government are entitled to immunity from lawsuits for what 
they do in the line of duty, as long as they do it right, in accord with the 
Constitution.

But what one NASA investigator did to Joann Davis, a financially distressed 
widow of an engineer on the Apollo program who was trying to raise a little 
money, was too much for a federal court of appeals to stomach. And on Thursday, 
the judges let her suit against him go forward.

Here’s what happened, as described in an opinion issued by a panel of the U.S. 
Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit in Pasadena.

Robert Davis was, by all accounts, a brilliant engineer, employed by North 
American Rockwell as manager of NASA’s Apollo 11 program.

When he left, he took with him two mementos: One “contained a rice-grain-sized 
fragment of lunar material, or ‘moonrock;’ the other contained a small piece of 
the Apollo 11 heat shield.”

According to “family lore,” Neil Armstrong gave the paperweights to Davis in 
recognition of his service to NASA.

Robert Davis died in 1986. His widow, Joann, who later remarried, fell on hard 
times in 2011. Her son had become ill, requiring over 20 surgeries. Her 
youngest daughter died, and she found herself raising several grandchildren in 
her 70s.

In need of money, she thought of selling the paperweights, only to find that 
auction houses were uninterested.

She then contacted NASA for help in finding a buyer for what she described as 
“2 rare Apollo 11 space artifacts.”

Her innocent email inquiry produced a wholly unanticipated result when it 
arrived in the NASA bureaucracy. It wound up not in the hands of some kindly 
space veteran but in the office of NASA’s Inspector General at the Kennedy 
Space Center in Florida.

There, an agent smelled a crime. Perhaps, he thought, she was trying to unload 
purloined government property, a crime.
NASA ‘sting’ operation draws court rebuke
Embed Share
Play Video3:00
The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit in Pasadena allowed a suit 
against a NASA investigator to go forward. The NASA investigator conducted a 
"sting" operation against a 74-year-old widow of a Apollo engineer, who was 
attempting to sell moonrock and a piece of the Apollo 11 heat shield. (United 
States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit)

The IG’s office launched an investigation, getting a “confidential source” to 
call Davis pretending to be a broker. He called himself “Jeff.”

Jeff pretended to have previously worked at NASA and promised to help her sell 
the paperweights.

The two exchanged seven phone calls, during which Davis expressed concern that 
NASA would confiscate the paperweights unless she could prove they were a gift. 
She explained, according to court documents, that she wanted “to do things 
legally” because she was “just not an illegal person.”

Jeff said he was a legal person too, but reminded her that the sale of a moon 
rock “can’t be done publicly.”

After the phone calls, Norman Conley, a criminal investigator in the IG’s 
office, obtained a warrant stating that Davis was “in possession of contraband.”

They then planned a sting operation on the 74-year-old woman.

Jeff arranged to meet with Davis on May 19, 2011, at a Denny’s Restaurant in 
Lake Elsinore, Calif., for purposes, she was led to believe, of finalizing the 
sale of the paperweights.

Davis went with her second husband, Paul Cilley.

Greeting Davis, who is 4-foot-11, were three armed federal agents, with three 
Riverside County Sheriff’s officials present but not visible, apparently as 
backup.

The court opinion described what happened next:

Davis placed the paperweights on the table. Jeff said he thought the heat 
shield was worth about $2,000. Shortly thereafter, Conley announced himself as 
a “special agent,” and another officer’s hand reached over Davis, grabbed her 
hand, and took the moon rock paperweight. Simultaneously, a different officer 
grabbed Cilley by the back of the neck and restrained him by holding his arm 
behind his back in a bent-over position. Then, an officer grabbed Davis by the 
arm, pulling her from the booth. At this time, Davis claims that she felt like 
she was 

Re: [meteorite-list] (no subject)

2017-01-26 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Thanks Doug,
Got to really dig into this paper to make sense of the conclusion which is only 
speculative and needs 
to be further evaluated for positive confirmation bias and field and lab work 
around the world.  It was 
quite top heavy on analysis which appears well done!

The authors, or maybe it was the press, used the study's 270 kg dissolved 
sample of well-characterized 
"chronostratigraphic" sediments from a Russian deposit in the study which got 
approved for publication 
in the prestigious journal, "Nature", if I read it correctly.  

It would have been more rigorous for my taste if it had been reviewed by MAPS 
editors, or the like, where the focus
 would have been more on interpretation, than on methodology.  Just my opinion, 
as both are important.  
It is an interesting subject - do we call it paleo-meteoritics? Getting any 
paper into Nature deserves congrats
for sure but I expected to be more awed from their editorial staff choices.  
Luckily no one told that to the Alvarez'.

In the end the conclusion is that ordinary chondrites used to be a 
significantly lower proportion of finds, nearly a 
half billion years ago according to the results of their study.  Then 466 mya 
that all changed with the disruption
of an L parent body.  I didn't notice special mention of H- or L-chondrites, so 
the assumption IMO is that that another
event happened recently.  None of this seems remarkably insightful but perhaps 
the authors point of view is 
that here's a smattering of evidence that confirms the idea that the ratios of 
meteorite classes will vary throughout 
geological ages which is nice when things make sense and people begin to 
dimension it with the 'fossil' record.

Kindest wishes
Doug

-Original Message-
From: Doug Ross <d...@dougross.net>
To: mexicodoug <mexicod...@aol.com>
Cc: Meteorite List <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wed, Jan 25, 2017 1:38 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] (no subject)

Hi Doug,

Here is a link to the original paper:

http://www.nature.com/articles/s41550-016-0035

"Our data show that the meteorite flux has varied over geological time as 
asteroid disruptions create new fragment populations that then slowly fade away 
from collisional and dynamical evolution. The current flux favours disruption 
events that are larger, younger and/or highly efficient at delivering material 
to Earth."

Cheers from the “other” Doug,

Doug Ross







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Re: [meteorite-list] Happy 1st Birthday, Osceola!

2017-01-24 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Hey Rob, and fellow Osceolans :-)

Congrats to all Osceolans, Rob, Larry, and all friends and colleagues that 
ventured into the swamp, boots on the ground or virtually.  The grand totals 
stand at only 8 stones for the official TKW of 1099 grams!

https://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=63109

Buckleboo!
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Matson, Rob D. via Meteorite-list 
To: meteorite-list 
Sent: Tue, Jan 24, 2017 2:34 pm
Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy 1st Birthday, Osceola!

Doug's post reminded me -- hard to believe it's already been one year since the 
Osceola fall
into the swamps of northeast Florida!
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Re: [meteorite-list] (no subject)

2017-01-24 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
"Rare meteorites common in the Ordovician period"

Ordovician meteorite hunters must have been brachiopods (Team Brachinite).  

Do the authors understand or speculate how different the absolute "flux" was 
for achondrites, for anyone reading this?

In other words, are the ordinary chondrites just less common 467 mya making 
this a better title:

"Common meteorites rare in the Ordovician period"
"
Big difference ... Otherwise the hypothesis is sensible ... that through the 
ages the relative frequency of meteorite types goes up and down depending on 
the latest collisions and shipping lanes ...

Cheers
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Tommy via Meteorite-list 
To: meteorite-list 
Sent: Tue, Jan 24, 2017 1:04 pm
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rare meteorites common in the Ordovician period

http://www.nature.com/articles/s41550-016-0035


Regards!

Tom

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Re: [meteorite-list] Pallasite Crystals

2017-01-17 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Thanks Sean!

I just got your kind email reply to me and Rob, and wanted to say you are on 
the right track!  I just wanted to emphasize that one of the differences 
between a typical terrestrial gemstone in the jeweler market, and an 
extraterrestrial one from pallasite meteorites, represented from dealers, e.g. 
at gem shows and the like, is the essence of meteorite authenticity among 
collectors: its locality.

Authenticating a meteorite requires identification of its locality, since a 
great part of the value of a meteorite is the relative scarcity of the locality 
and in this case the corresponding issues with extracting suitable gemmy 
olivine crystals from said unique locality.  Extraterrestrial peridots, like 
their parent meteorites are likely from different small solar system bodies, or 
at least from different portions.  One pallasite locality can be easily sell 
for 10 times another and for the existing market of collectors, we collectors 
currently determine that value.

If a litmus test is suitable to distinguish among peridots being terrestrial 
vs. meteoritic, as you point out it is useful for some purposes to rule out 
obvious fakes, but beyond that, there is an extra all-important degree of 
sophistication needed to identify the locality.

If someone like GIA starts authenticating meteorites, they need to admit and 
openly disclose the limitations of their tests to their customers.  Meteorites 
are a little more complicated.  So this sort of testing has its place requires 
a high bar to be conclusive.  No doubt that using trace metals like nickel 
concentration,(which, interestingly is lower in space olivines, the opposite of 
what we find in their parent meteorites) can be done along with optical tests.  
But we meteorite folk have seen before that if someone really wants to fake 
something they can make life hard.  Look at the Shirokovsky pseudo-pallasite 
that got caught by nickel content.  

The meteorite community has a long history of battling fakes, misrepresented 
meteorites, and fakers, which is why developing a bustling commodity space 
peridot market from stuff at gem show and yes, eBay and every place else that 
finds its way into the mix...for innocent consumers willing to shell out big 
bucks... is a little different from the simple solution of having a pedigree 
from a trusted meteorite supplier.  Very, very few people are actually finding 
the pallasites.

Good luck with your project and I hope the discussion is useful! 
Doug
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Re: [meteorite-list] Pallasite Crystals

2017-01-11 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Sean, As mentioned earlier (I think by Carl Agee?) there are destructive and 
non-destructive (expensive) ways to do this and most are costly, unless as he 
suggested one of Blaine's X-ray geological sample filed analyzers works.  It's 
similar to proving your rare approved meteorite locality is actually the 
locality claimed.  

In my opinion the GIA is not currently competent to authenticate any kind of 
meteorites.  When they start to deal in isotopes, they can start classifying 
all kinds of meteorites for us.

It is practical to buy from a reputable meteorite person and consider their 
reputation your insurance - someone active with pallasites has no motive to 
make you buy a pig in a poke!  If you do faceting, make yourself an alliance 
with a meteorite person and go from there.  Then you have provenance from an 
approved meteorite.

I have one exquisitely gemmy pear faceted olivine from a Seymchan pallasite 
I'll sell as soon as I can figure out how to get my website online again.  It 
was made by the team that finds Seymchan.  Similar is the case for Admire which 
folks we all know have worked on and it appears Nakhla Dog is selling with 
provenance and I believe KD Meteorites, as well as Steve Arnold and Don 
Stimpson, and dealers they supply.  Pardon if I've omitted others I don't know 
about.  Also, though I haven't seen any recently, I believe Esquel and 
Krasnojarsk peridots were available at some time in the past.

JMO, hope that helps, & good luck Sean
Doug



-Original Message-
From: SR Brooks via Meteorite-list 
To: meteorite-list 
Sent: Wed, Jan 11, 2017 1:51 am
Subject: [meteorite-list] Pallasite Crystals

Hello list,   On the subject of fake pallasite crystals being tested.
If anyone has some authentic olivine peridot from a pallasite that
could be donated to the GIA the Gemological Institute of America's lab
to have tested they could find the difference between the terrestrial
and the meteoric type. They have a lab that studies and tests every
type of gemstone that exists including man-made simulants and fakes
and if they haven't already I'm sure they would love to study them and
come up with a test at no cost other than the donation.
  I'm a gem cutter as well as a meteorite collector and
enthusiast and have tried to find some unshattered pieces to cut for
myself. Usually, the person trying to sell me the meteorite material
has terrestrial gem material trying to be passed off as the pallasite
olivine for a high price. Luckily because of my gemology and meteorite
knowledge, I can tell the difference although a sure fire test for
everyone would be great.  If anyone has any they would like to donate
and have tested ( I'm sure they'd love to work on it )  contact the
GIA in Carlsbad, CA and maybe they can come up with a test to make it
easier to separate the two.
   Also if anyone has any unshattered crystals and would
like to have some material cut I can facet the material and even work
out a trade type situation to keep it affordable if it helps. Anyway
just a thought. I may look into it myself.

 Keep on Rockin Rock Heads,  Sean Brooks #7781

 finestkindsto...@gmail.com
 shockwaver...@gmail.com


i
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Re: [meteorite-list] Another eBay JERK - Block him!

2017-01-10 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Keep the faith Ruben.  If you can compete and do well on eBay over the long 
term, it is likely that you have a good product at a good price that appeals to 
a large segment.  In this you do a service to the other dealers by getting new 
collector recruits all the time ... kudos to all you meteorite eBayers for 
that!  I sincerely hope you and everyone burned by this Hong Kong Post scam 
artist get compensated.  EBay sounds weak in fraud protection but it is hard to 
ignore the Chinese market for a seller.  

Perhaps the best bet is to set a feedback requirement.  It looks like the scam 
artist in question has a feedback of only (5).  Let us know if eBay catches on 
to them and eventually makes amends after recognizing the scammer for what they 
are.  I get the feeling the case is not yet resolved and to be fair to eBay if 
they do something positive that should be posted for readers to understand 
whether it was only aggravation or also the lo$$ stuck.

The alternative is to block any bidder located where tracking is interrupted/or 
seller protection does not apply.  Sometime I think we are an overly optimistic 
bunch and so enthusiastic we take risks, banking on every Internet contact 
being a good, honest person.

Another auction website, like the one that was posted a year ago for free use 
to the list, got the cold shoulder here from what I saw, only because everyone 
was honest that used eBay and considered the glass at eBay half full when the 
question was posed as going to a new auction site. (and perhaps wanting to 
avoid yet another brokering site).

EBay may have its issues, but  not been a year I've been in Tucson, have I not 
heard grumbling somewhere that bad apples, thieves, or scammers  don't appear 
there, too.  On eBay, it is a double whammy, lost of common sense control, and 
usually razor thin margins plus paying commission like having the door hit you 
on the butt on the way out of a loss.   That's the faith or give up part!  

I haven't been on eBay in so many years I need to try it out again, I actually 
started missing it reading this!  I know plenty of other reputable dealers that 
do well but no one bats 1000 ... though it can be years till they get that bad 
apple, it is one person and the exception is not a reason to forsake a big 
convenient marketing platform.  

Unfortunately the occasional collector  isn't about to make an entire website 
to sell a few collection pieces probably to turn around and get new ones 
anyways with the sales...  So while eBay is not always good for specialty 
meteorites niches perhaps sophisticated collection pieces, where the risks are 
magnified and you need a learned audience of more than one interested.  There 
is something to be said about sellers having reputable buyers too and people 
that certainly !  Just random thoughts and commiserations

Cheers
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Ruben Garcia via Meteorite-list 
To: Galactic Stone & Ironworks 
Cc: Meteorite-list ; ruben garcia 

Sent: Mon, Jan 9, 2017 6:53 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another eBay JERK - Block him!

Hi,

I know that some smart people (you, Mike Farmer, Anne Black) do well
without eBay.

For me it works fine most of the time.  However, days like today make
me wonder how long I will continue to sell on ebay

On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 at 4:49 PM, Galactic Stone & Ironworks
 wrote:
> Hi Ruben Sr., and Ruben Jr,
>
> Well, just when I think I know everybody in the meteorite community, I
> learn something new. I had no idea there were two Rubens that are
> father and son.  :)
>
> I am sorry you have to put up with this nonsense, but eBay does not
> care at all. Over the years, eBay has made it abundantly clear that
> their only concern is profits. They do not care about the integrity of
> their marketplace, their reputation, or their members.
>
> It is a shame to see how far eBay has fallen from it's peak. When I
> first joined back in 1999, it was a great community. Now eBay has done
> everything in it's power to strip the community feeling from it's
> members - even going so far as to severely limit the ability of
> members to communicate with each other. (Again, out of fear of losing
> a dollar because members might arrange a sale outside of eBay).
>
> Until eBay starts doing something about the rampant fraud in it's
> marketplace, I will steer clear as a seller. I still buy things on
> eBay, but I would rather set an item on fire than sell it there.
>
> Best regards,
>
> MikeG
> --
> ---
> Galactic Stone & Ironworks : www.galactic-stone.com
> Facebook : www.facebook.com/galacticstones
> Instagram : www.instagram.com/galacticstone
> LinkedIn : www.linkedin.com/in/galacticstone
> Pinterest : www.pinterest.com/galacticstone
> Twitter : 

Re: [meteorite-list] Friends

2017-01-08 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Edwin, A sad reminder that we are all just a momentary frame in the infinitely 
animated Cosmos.  Carpe diem and  loving travels to Carlos and the spirit he 
leaves with us.

Atentos saludos
Doug

-Original Message-
From: Edwin Thompson via Meteorite-list 
To: meteorite-list 
Sent: Sun, Jan 8, 2017 4:07 pm
Subject: [meteorite-list] Friends

To all of those in our meteorite community, some very sad news. Our dear friend 
and the guy with the biggest smile, Carlos Oddi passed away on December 30th.

Carlos lost his battle with cancer but, he went out with pride, he was active 
and doing what he loved until nearly the end. 

Carlos was responsible for bringing to market: Rio Limay, Garabato, Laguna 
Manantiales and many other Argentine meteorites.

For many of us who knew and loved him, his passing will leave a hole in our 
lives.


Edwin
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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day

2017-01-02 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Krasnojarsk, a.k.a., the Pallas Iron!  MPOD just had some comments on this 
historical locality and then it falls in plain exhibition today, January 2nd 
like magic, or mind reading (Anne and the Carions sweet  :-! )

The only meteorite class named for a meteorite hunter that recovered it 
(right?), We could've been calling pallasites  krasnojarskites for their 
type specimen as is the overall scientific convention ... 

Paul,  fantastic job with MPOD as has been mentioned by other kind folks before 
me on this list, but never enough!  Thank you!

Cheers!
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Paul Swartz via Meteorite-list 
To: meteorite-list 
Sent: Mon, Jan 2, 2017 1:00 pm
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day

Today's Meteorite Picture of the Day: Krasnojarsk

Contributed by: Anne Black

http://www.tucsonmeteorites.com/mpodmain.asp?DD=01/02/2017
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Re: [meteorite-list] Happy New Year From Sunny Florida

2017-01-01 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Happy (Florida) New Year's Day, Greg.  Happy New Year to everyone throughout 
the lands of Shooting Stardom!
Cheers!
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Greg Hupe via Meteorite-list 
To: meteorite-list 
Sent: Sat, Dec 31, 2016 9:02 pm
Subject: [meteorite-list] Happy New Year From Sunny Florida

Happy New Year from sunny and warm Florida.  2017 is already promising to be 
stellar!  Wishing the best for everyone...

Best Regards,
Greg


Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
gmh...@centurylink.net
www.NaturesVault.net (Online Catalog & Reference Site)
www.LunarRock.com (Online Planetary Meteorite Site)
NaturesVault (Facebook, Pinterest & eBay)
http://www.facebook.com/NaturesVault
http://pinterest.com/NaturesVault
IMCA 3163

Click here for my current eBay auctions:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault



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Re: [meteorite-list] Bolivia Meteorite Adventure

2016-12-14 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Well Done Mike & Greg!!!

It seems like yesterday! Oh wait, it was. My suitcases are still on the living 
room floor.
Michael Farmer

Sent from my iPad

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Re: [meteorite-list] New fall in hand. Aiquile Bolivia.

2016-12-13 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
A few reasons, mostly relating to the excitement of the hunt in the altitude 
when you exert yourself ... increased heartbeat, breathing and full utilization 
of the lungs, thrill from a chase being lightheaded, especially for us coastal 
folk.  

And, if memory serves, for stones in particular,I think you could have them 
impacting 15-20% faster around 8000 feet.  That means anything much larger than 
a basketball can be in supersonic free fall, though very dependent on 
orientation and shape.  It makes witness accounts more spectacular with the 
less diffused sonic booms and then the ricocheting of them.  So for me, yes, 
very special unless you have to spend your time just shopping around to buy 
from the local hunters and finders.

Maybe not such a big deal at 6000 feet as over 8000 feet, so not another 
Carancas (altitude 12,000 feet, but Google that to be sure)... but the nice 
backdrop ought to have pick up the difference.

OK, hurry up and put up the story and stones :-) and congrats to Greg and you 
on the successful recovery!

Doug


-Original Message-
From: Michael Farmer <m...@meteoriteguy.com>
To: MexicoDoug <mexicod...@aol.com>; Meteorite Mailing List 
<meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tue, Dec 13, 2016 10:52 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New fall in hand. Aiquile Bolivia.

Why does they matter? 6000~ feet or so there. Nothing special about the air. 

Michael Farmer

> On Dec 13, 2016, at 8:04 AM, MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list 
> <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> wrote:
> 
> This should be interesting ... stony falls at high elevation where the air is 
> still thin!
> Doug
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Michael Farmer via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
> To: Meteorite Mailing List <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Mon, Dec 12, 2016 11:08 pm
> Subject: [meteorite-list] New fall in hand. Aiquile Bolivia.
> 
> Arriving home at midnight after whirlwind South America adventure with Greg 
> Hupe. 
> Story to come. Pieces for sale. I don't have that much.
> Incredible fall November 20, 2016.
> 
> 
> 
> Michael Farmer
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Re: [meteorite-list] New fall in hand. Aiquile Bolivia.

2016-12-13 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
This should be interesting ... stony falls at high elevation where the air is 
still thin!
Doug

-Original Message-
From: Michael Farmer via Meteorite-list 
To: Meteorite Mailing List 
Sent: Mon, Dec 12, 2016 11:08 pm
Subject: [meteorite-list] New fall in hand. Aiquile Bolivia.

Arriving home at midnight after whirlwind South America adventure with Greg 
Hupe. 
Story to come. Pieces for sale. I don't have that much.
Incredible fall November 20, 2016.



Michael Farmer
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Re: [meteorite-list] Sad News :-(

2016-12-09 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Dear "Community"

I join in hurting of this sad loss and in and celebrating Larry's life with 
this bad news.  Larry was a wonderful person to me and I will miss his 
enthusiasm, anecdotes personal ways, and kind friendship he he shared with me.  
A certain meteorite he gave me is now deeply special.  I hope all of Larry's 
extended friends and family stay as well as can be, in the face of his loss on 
this sad December day.

Saludos
Doug


-Original Message-
From: KD Meteorites via Meteorite-list 
To: meteorite-list 
Sent: Fri, Dec 9, 2016 12:31 pm
Subject: [meteorite-list] Sad News :-(

I'm sad to tell everyone that we lost one of the best men I ever met; Larry 
Sloan. He was a very well respected and loved man, always ready with a smile 
and some of his natural remedies! He loved everything meteorite and will be 
missed greatly at the shows.

After I lost my dad in 2006 Larry stepped up and became my second Dad; and he 
was always there with a smile and some advice.

The shows will be a little sadder without his smiling face but I'm sure he will 
do his best to send down some Meteorites from heaven just to keep us on our 
toes! :-)

Please send your thoughts and prayers to his family during this difficult time.

Thank you
Dana

Meteorite Lady Rocks!
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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day ***IMPORTANT***

2016-12-03 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Mendy you are really reputable, a gentleman, and a great scientist, too. This 
is an (uncommonly acquired) superbly prepared large full slice which must be 
such a treat to see in person. Large grain size and stark contrast in the 
matrix makes it a really interesting eucrite. Also high in titanium which for 
me conjures images of a mining base and space-faring outpost to be built based 
on Vesta one of these days Not to mention that the iron is so nickel free ... 
like happened on Earth?! ;-)

I appreciate you, and all who make the effort, and bear the expense, to 
classify these incredible stones and the opportunity to get MPOD thanks to kind 
folks like Suzanne and Paul who make the time to brighten so many people's days.

Kindest wishes
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Mendy Ouzillou <mendy.ouzil...@gmail.com>
To: 'MexicoDoug' <mexicod...@aol.com>; valparint <valpar...@aol.com>; 
meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>; 'Suzanne Morrison' 
<rainingro...@hotmail.com>
Sent: Sat, Dec 3, 2016 12:47 pm
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day ***IMPORTANT***

Doug,

You are absolutely correct.

Steve Witt handled that second stone and I had not updated my records to 
reflect that the classification had to be split for the two stones. Based on 
visual observations, there was at the time a (small) concern that they may be 
different. Final classification did prove that these were the same and thus 
paired, even though 7989 is listed as a polymict eucrite and the 8588 as an 
eucrite. So, my apologies to you. 

To be very clear, this mixup is my fault and I will update Suzanne and other 
clients as well. The website has already been updated as well to reflect the 
updated information. 

Thank you for the keen eye!

Best,

Mendy

-----Original Message-
From: MexicoDoug [mailto:mexicod...@aol.com] 
Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2016 11:10 AM
To: mendy.ouzil...@gmail.com; valpar...@aol.com; 
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day ***IMPORTANT***

Is this from stone #1 (510g), or stone #2 (1635g) which Steve Witt was involved 
with?

Your website listed the 16.7g slice coming from the stone #2 and described:

"New Eucrite: NWA 7989 a beautiful multi-colored shock melt eucrite 
(provisional) TKW = 2145g (510g stone 1, 1635g stone 2)

Stone 2: Slices for Sale at $27.50/g: (all slices expertly cut &  prepared my 
Marlin Cilz)"


Steve Witt held the 1635g stone according to the Meteoritical Bulletin, 
classified as NWA 8588. 

TKW of NWA 7989 is only 510g.
NWA 8588 TKW is 1635g.

The above TKWs according to the Meteoritical Bulletin.  Accept my deep apology 
if I have missed something.

Kindest wishes
Doug 




-Original Message-
From: Mendy Ouzillou <mendy.ouzil...@gmail.com>
To: 'MexicoDoug' <mexicod...@aol.com>; valparint <valpar...@aol.com>; 
meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sat, Dec 3, 2016 11:44 am
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day ***IMPORTANT***

I am the main mass holder of NWA 7989 and I am the one who provided this 
material to Suzanne during this year's Tucson show. So, it is 100% NWA 7989.

Mendy Ouzillou

-Original Message-
From: Meteorite-list [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On 
Behalf Of MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2016 10:16 AM
To: valpar...@aol.com
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day

This is NWA 8588 sold precipitately as NWA 7989.  All the buyers should have 
been contacted by the sellers with the approved classification.

Kindest wishes
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Paul Swartz via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
To: meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sat, Dec 3, 2016 2:00 am
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day

Today's Meteorite Picture of the Day: NWA 7989

Contributed by: Suzanne Morrison

http://www.tucsonmeteorites.com/mpodmain.asp?DD=12/03/2016
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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day ***IMPORTANT***

2016-12-03 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Is this from stone #1 (510g), or stone #2 (1635g) which Steve Witt was involved 
with?

Your website listed the 16.7g slice coming from the stone #2 and described:

"New Eucrite: NWA 7989 a beautiful multi-colored shock melt eucrite 
(provisional)
TKW = 2145g (510g stone 1, 1635g stone 2)

Stone 2: Slices for Sale at $27.50/g: (all slices expertly cut &  prepared my 
Marlin Cilz)"


Steve Witt held the 1635g stone according to the Meteoritical Bulletin, 
classified as NWA 8588. 

TKW of NWA 7989 is only 510g.
NWA 8588 TKW is 1635g.

The above TKWs according to the Meteoritical Bulletin.  Accept my deep apology 
if I have missed something.

Kindest wishes
Doug 




-Original Message-
From: Mendy Ouzillou <mendy.ouzil...@gmail.com>
To: 'MexicoDoug' <mexicod...@aol.com>; valparint <valpar...@aol.com>; 
meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sat, Dec 3, 2016 11:44 am
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day ***IMPORTANT***

I am the main mass holder of NWA 7989 and I am the one who provided this
material to Suzanne during this year's Tucson show. So, it is 100% NWA 7989.

Mendy Ouzillou

-Original Message-
From: Meteorite-list [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On
Behalf Of MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Sent: Saturday, December 03, 2016 10:16 AM
To: valpar...@aol.com
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day

This is NWA 8588 sold precipitately as NWA 7989.  All the buyers should have
been contacted by the sellers with the approved classification.

Kindest wishes
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Paul Swartz via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
To: meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sat, Dec 3, 2016 2:00 am
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day

Today's Meteorite Picture of the Day: NWA 7989

Contributed by: Suzanne Morrison

http://www.tucsonmeteorites.com/mpodmain.asp?DD=12/03/2016
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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day

2016-12-03 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
This is NWA 8588 sold precipitately as NWA 7989.  All the buyers should have 
been contacted by the sellers with the approved classification.

Kindest wishes
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Paul Swartz via Meteorite-list 
To: meteorite-list 
Sent: Sat, Dec 3, 2016 2:00 am
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day

Today's Meteorite Picture of the Day: NWA 7989

Contributed by: Suzanne Morrison

http://www.tucsonmeteorites.com/mpodmain.asp?DD=12/03/2016
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Re: [meteorite-list] iron meteorite natural color

2016-11-24 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
As hinted to by Marcin, putting a false surface on a meteorite is anything 
except natural!  It would not be an authentic surface.  You could as well 
electroplate it with gold.  Cleaning on the other hand removed the natural 
surface.  IMO if you clean it and get bare metal, it is best to learn to like 
the surface.  If it is too bright, rub it in a little mineral oil under the 
assumption that it is for 'protection' and removable anytime.  That can darken 
it.

Happy Holidays
Doug

-Original Message-
From: Francesco Moser via Meteorite-list 
To: Meteorite-list 
Sent: Thu, Nov 24, 2016 10:49 am
Subject: [meteorite-list] iron meteorite natural color

Hello, I have a question.As we know an iron meteorite, such like Campo del 
Cielo for example, have a black surface.I have here a deeply rusted Campo, I'm 
planning to remove rust with a sand blasting process.But with this I will 
obtain a greysh surface, like naked iron, the same color of a slice.Not really 
a natural color for the exterior of an iron meteorite and also not aestetically 
pretty, looks too artificial for me.There is something to do for restore the 
original black color?Or it's better to remove the rust with a traditional steel 
brush, maybe with a drill ???Tips for mechanical or chemical process are 
welkomme!!!I can try with the classical NaOh bath, I have also Phosphoric, 
Citric and Oxalic acid :)ThanksxxFrancesco---Questa e-mail è stata 
controllata per individuare virus con Avast 
antivirus.https://www.avast.com/antivirus__Visit
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[meteorite-list] Monze Day - Oct 5

2016-10-05 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Happy Fall Day anniversary to Monze - October 5, 1950 ... the 66th!

Here on Florida's coast a few kind words to Chief Monze Mukulukulu to go easy 
on us as we look down the barrel of Hurricane Matthew... with an offering of my 
first wild tomatoes from the volunteer fall crop.  

Monze Mukulukulu of the Tonga is legendary in that he was the first Monze Chief 
and has a special place as Sunshine and Rain Bringer to his people.  He's 
legendary in the sense that when he passed into the next world, no body was 
found and he is said in Tonga tradition to have ascended to the sky to regulate 
the rains after the dry season.  

Offerings are made to the current Chief Monze to honor Mukulukulu every year in 
early July during their very dry winter season when rains are crucial --- the 
offerings are of iron hand made hoeing implements and symbolically the current 
Chief Monze takes his role and eats the first harvest.

Monze is named for the ancient Monze Chief, and October begins the countdown to 
the end of the dry periods and the most pleasant weather.  Hopefully Chief 
Mukulukulu can bring some of the rain from here to his dry but fertile fields 
of Monze,

Kindest wishes
Doug
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Re: [meteorite-list] acid for pallasite

2016-09-20 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Resending see my opinion below interpreting your question to deal with 
extracting the olivines by consuming the metal matrix.

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail


-Original Message---


I have never wanted to consume an iron meteorite, but if I did, I would buy 
some inexpensive 37% (concentrated) muriatic acid for $5 a gallon or whatever 
it is costing now. 

Then buy both goggles an a face shield neoprene gloves and dilute the acid with 
water to as close to 20% as possible.  Put on the protection and cover all my 
skin with clothing.  Then I would simmer (hold just below boiling) a pot of 
water and put a second pot inside with the meteorite in 20% acid with a clear 
cover and keep the simmer until satisfied with the dissolution.
The 20% would be critical to me due to the properties of the acid, not more.  
Less would be slower so it depends on the job that needs to be done.

Muriatic acud is a common name for hydrochloric acid industrial low grade can 
be bought in places in the US for example to add to pools to lower pH or for 
cleaning some toilets and plumbing etc.

Never done this but it is what I'd do since HCl is probably the safest strong 
mineral acid that's cheap.  Other strong acids and more dilute or lower temps 
might be sufficient, so you can work up to your need if time is not an issue.

Be careful and famaliarize yourself withe the risks if you haven't already.
Best wishes
Doug
Sent from AOL Mobile Mail
-Original Message-
From: Francesco Moser via Meteorite-list 
To: Meteorite-list 
Sent: Tue, Sep 20, 2016 09:43 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] acid for pallasite
Hello!
Wich kind of acid I can use for dissolve the iron/rust in a Pallasite, so I
can save the Olivine?
Thanks a lot!
xx
Francesco
---
Questa e-mail è stata controllata per individuare virus con Avast antivirus.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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Re: [meteorite-list] The World's Second Largest Meteorite

2016-09-13 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
There may well have been a measurable depression of some sort in the Earth.  
Have you see the story of the circumstances of the find?  I haven't, but I 
believe the find was in part inspired by the activities of Bill Cassidy's 
project to map a Campo "crater field" over the last several decades.


-Original Message-
From: Count Deiro via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
To: Mattias Bärmann <majbaerm...@web.de>; almitt2 <almi...@localnet.com>; 
meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tue, Sep 13, 2016 5:44 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The World's Second Largest Meteorite



That had to have made a helluva thump when it hit.Surprised it didn't make 
a deeper hole...or a crater.
Count Deiro


-Original Message- 
From: Mattias Bärmann via Meteorite-list 
Sent: Sep 13, 2016 8:25 AM 
To: almi...@localnet.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com 
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The World's Second Largest Meteorite 




Nice pic of the newbie ...
http://cdn2.spiegel.de/images/image-1047905-galleryV9-xonf-1047905.jpg




Am 13.09.2016 um 16:10 schrieb almitt2--- via Meteorite-list:


 Hi List, 

 All sells of big iron meteorites of 28,000 kilos and over are now 
 suspended! 

 Ya I know, I don't like that cute joke anymore either but had to 
 "weigh" in. 

 --AL Mitterling 

 Mitterling Meteorites 

  Quoting Peter Scherff via Meteorite-list 
<meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>: 


Hi, 

My reading of the article, albeit through Google translate, talks 

about El 

Chaco being reweighed and its weight being reported at  28,840 

kilos. The 

newly discovered meteorite weighs 30,800 kilos. 

Thanks, 

Peter 

-Original Message- 
From: Meteorite-list 

[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On 

Behalf Of Bigjohn Shea via Meteorite-list 
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 6:05 AM 
To: metlist 
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The World's Second Largest Meteorite 



https://steemit.com/gancedo/@merlinesm/meteorite-record-the-gancedo-weighs-3 

0-8-tons-and-is-the-fourth-largest-in-the-world 

This article, with some great photos, lists it at 4th with 30,800kg 

as the 

official measure. 

Weighing the big ones like this and compairing them to others has 

always 

been confusing it seems. 

2nd or 4th is kkind of irrelevant in my book.  Still amazing... 

Cheers, 
John A. Shea, MD 
IMCA 3295 



Sent using the mail.com mail app 

On 9/13/16 at 2:01 AM, MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list wrote: 


Just a journalistic failure to fact check...  The original El 

Chaco is 

said to be 37.4 MT (37,400 kg).  They need to weigh this "Gancedo" 

more 

accurately perhaps, but it is over 14,500 pounds more to get from 

the 

Gancedo 30.8 MT to the El Chaco 37.4 MT: 


see the recovery of the find here: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7OGZpVbI6I 
Best 
Doug 


-Original Message- 
From: Rob Wesel via Meteorite-list 
<meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> 
To: Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net>; 

meteorite-list 

<meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> 
Sent: Tue, Sep 13, 2016 1:41 am 
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The World's Second Largest Meteorite 

I have seen this in the news a few times today. Amazing find but 

I'm 

confused. 

This new find is 34 tons. 

El Chaco weighs in at 37 tons and Hoba has them beat at 66. 

I missing a metric conversion in reference to El Chaco? 

Referencing the book 
The Campo Del Cielo Meteorites, Vol. II, Chaco Guillermo Faivovich 

and 

Nicolas Goldberg 
2012 
Page 45 


Rob Wesel 
-- 
Nakhla Dog Meteorites 
www.nakhladogmeteorites.com 
www.facebook.com/Nakhla.Dog.Meteorites 
www.facebook.com/Rob.Wesel 
-- 
We are the music makers... 
and we are the dreamers of the dreams. 
Willy Wonka, 1971 




-- 
From: "Sterling K. Webb via Meteorite-list" 
<meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> 
Sent: Monday, September 12, 2016 9:52 PM 
To: <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> 
Subject: [meteorite-list] The World's Second Largest Meteorite 

> List, 
> 
> A 34-ton iron has been found 
> in the Campo del Cielo region 
> of Argentina: 
> 

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/article/article_xinhua.aspx?id=332776 

> 
> The meteorite was found on 
> Sept. 10 in the town of Gancedo, 
> 1,085 km north of Buenos Aires, 
> Mario Vesconi, president of the 
> Astronomy Association of Chaco, 
> told the daily newspaper Clarin." 
> 
> "While we hoped for weights above 
> what had been registered, we did 
> not expect it to exceed 30 [metric] 
> tons," Vesconi noted, adding that 
> "the size and weight [about 68,000 
> pounds] surprised us." 
> 
> "The meteorite will be weighed 
> again to ensure an accurate 
> measurement. Th

Re: [meteorite-list] The World's Second Largest Meteorite

2016-09-13 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
John A. Shea, MD
IMCA 3295



Sent using the mail.com mail app

On 9/13/16 at 2:01 AM, MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list wrote:

> Just a journalistic failure to fact check...  The original El Chaco is
said to be 37.4 MT (37,400 kg).  They need to weigh this "Gancedo" more
accurately perhaps, but it is over 14,500 pounds more to get from the
Gancedo 30.8 MT to the El Chaco 37.4 MT:
> 
> see the recovery of the find here:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7OGZpVbI6I
> Best
> Doug
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Rob Wesel via Meteorite-list 
> <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
> To: Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net>; meteorite-list 
> <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Tue, Sep 13, 2016 1:41 am
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The World's Second Largest Meteorite
> 
> I have seen this in the news a few times today. Amazing find but I'm 
> confused.
> 
> This new find is 34 tons.
> 
> El Chaco weighs in at 37 tons and Hoba has them beat at 66.
> 
> I missing a metric conversion in reference to El Chaco?
> 
> Referencing the book
> The Campo Del Cielo Meteorites, Vol. II, Chaco Guillermo Faivovich and 
> Nicolas Goldberg
> 2012
> Page 45
> 
> 
> Rob Wesel
> --
> Nakhla Dog Meteorites
> www.nakhladogmeteorites.com
> www.facebook.com/Nakhla.Dog.Meteorites
> www.facebook.com/Rob.Wesel
> --
> We are the music makers...
> and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
> Willy Wonka, 1971
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> From: "Sterling K. Webb via Meteorite-list" 
> <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Monday, September 12, 2016 9:52 PM
> To: <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] The World's Second Largest Meteorite
> 
> > List,
> >
> > A 34-ton iron has been found
> > in the Campo del Cielo region
> > of Argentina:
> > http://www.shanghaidaily.com/article/article_xinhua.aspx?id=332776
> >
> > The meteorite was found on
> > Sept. 10 in the town of Gancedo,
> > 1,085 km north of Buenos Aires,
> > Mario Vesconi, president of the
> > Astronomy Association of Chaco,
> > told the daily newspaper Clarin."
> >
> > "While we hoped for weights above
> > what had been registered, we did
> > not expect it to exceed 30 [metric]
> > tons," Vesconi noted, adding that
> > "the size and weight [about 68,000
> > pounds] surprised us."
> >
> > "The meteorite will be weighed
> > again to ensure an accurate
> > measurement. The largest
> > meteorite ever found is Hoba,
> > weighing 66 tons, in Namibia."
> >
> > See also:
> > http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2016/sep/12/30-ton-meteor-discovere
> > d-in-arg
> > entina-at-ancient-m/
> >
> >
> > Sterling K. Webb
> >
> > __
> >
> > Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral 
> > and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> > https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> 
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Re: [meteorite-list] The World's Second Largest Meteorite

2016-09-13 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Just a journalistic failure to fact check...  The original El Chaco is said to 
be 37.4 MT (37,400 kg).  They need to weigh this "Gancedo" more accurately 
perhaps, but it is over 14,500 pounds more to get from the Gancedo 30.8 MT to 
the El Chaco 37.4 MT:

see the recovery of the find here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7OGZpVbI6I
Best
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Rob Wesel via Meteorite-list 
To: Sterling K. Webb ; meteorite-list 

Sent: Tue, Sep 13, 2016 1:41 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The World's Second Largest Meteorite

I have seen this in the news a few times today. Amazing find but I'm 
confused.

This new find is 34 tons.

El Chaco weighs in at 37 tons and Hoba has them beat at 66.

I missing a metric conversion in reference to El Chaco?

Referencing the book
The Campo Del Cielo Meteorites, Vol. II, Chaco
Guillermo Faivovich and Nicolas Goldberg
2012
Page 45


Rob Wesel
--
Nakhla Dog Meteorites
www.nakhladogmeteorites.com
www.facebook.com/Nakhla.Dog.Meteorites
www.facebook.com/Rob.Wesel
--
We are the music makers...
and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
Willy Wonka, 1971




--
From: "Sterling K. Webb via Meteorite-list" 

Sent: Monday, September 12, 2016 9:52 PM
To: 
Subject: [meteorite-list] The World's Second Largest Meteorite

> List,
>
> A 34-ton iron has been found
> in the Campo del Cielo region
> of Argentina:
> http://www.shanghaidaily.com/article/article_xinhua.aspx?id=332776
>
> The meteorite was found on
> Sept. 10 in the town of Gancedo,
> 1,085 km north of Buenos Aires,
> Mario Vesconi, president of the
> Astronomy Association of Chaco,
> told the daily newspaper Clarin."
>
> "While we hoped for weights above
> what had been registered, we did
> not expect it to exceed 30 [metric]
> tons," Vesconi noted, adding that
> "the size and weight [about 68,000
> pounds] surprised us."
>
> "The meteorite will be weighed
> again to ensure an accurate
> measurement. The largest
> meteorite ever found is Hoba,
> weighing 66 tons, in Namibia."
>
> See also:
> http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2016/sep/12/30-ton-meteor-discovered-in-arg
> entina-at-ancient-m/
>
>
> Sterling K. Webb
>
> __
>
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Re: [meteorite-list] Captain's Log - Jeff Grossman(?)

2016-09-08 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Yes Kevin, didn't you get the memo? ;-)  Jeff changed his email around August 
2015 from USGS to NASA HQ.

See for yourself in this current pic from them:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8244/28766247430_774d3cdd42.jpg

I always thought Jeff wanted to retire and hunt meteorites, but he's apparently 
wanting to go after more virgin material, and so he's now off to the asteroid 
Bennu to get the "Big Prize".  We wish him luck!

He's pretty good at it too so far, and you can see him all over NASA TV in the 
tradition of the Earthling meteorite hunters he left behind

Funny, this evening I was exercising on the beach after a long day and was 
interrupted by rocket blasting off from the not so far away Cape.  The pattern 
was corkscrew, btw.  I came home and looked it up OH! OH! OH! OSIRIS!

Congratulations to the OSIRIS-REx team for getting their act together in what 
to me appears record time, this mission is the very same, exploration headed by 
Dante Lauretta, principal investigator at the University of Arizona, Tucson who 
many here know.  In addition to Jeff, I believe Tim McCoy of the Smithsonian 
and several others will have a lot to say about how Jeff's "Big Prize" we 
anxiously await is handled.  The asteroid isn't relatively far so it will all 
go down quickly!

https://www.nasa.gov/subject/6880/bennu/

Happy Hunting
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Kevin Kichinka via Meteorite-list 
To: meteorite-list 
Sent: Thu, Sep 8, 2016 10:59 pm
Subject: [meteorite-list] Captain's Log - Jeff Grossman(?)


Team Meteorite:


An article today on CNN.com regarding a sample recovery NASA mission designated 
OSIRIS-REx to asteroid 'Bennu' quotes Program Scientist Jeff Grossman.


Is that THE/'our' Jeff Grossman?


Kevin Kichinka


Seemingly swarming with scorpions and snakes near Puriscal, Costa Rica


"The Art of Collecting Meteorites" available on Amazon or Nook

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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite hit pear on tree:)

2016-09-08 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
"But you know what it means in French when you tell somebody that he is Une 
Poire?"


gull-ible?

une pierre dans une poire?

une perdix dans un poirier?

... fun with synophones!

---D





-Original Message-
From: Anne Black via Meteorite-list 
To: majbaermann ; mike ; 
meteorite-list 
Sent: Tue, Sep 6, 2016 7:04 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite hit pear on tree:)

Very funny Mattias, and you will have to tell Marc Jost.But you know what it 
means in French when you tell somebody that he is Une Poire?  :-) Anne M. 
blackwww.impactika.comimpact...@aol.com-Original Message-From: Mattias 
Bärmann via Meteorite-list To: Michael 
Farmer ; Meteorite Mailing List 
Sent: Tue, Sep 6, 2016 4:36 pmSubject: Re: 
[meteorite-list] Meteorite hit pear on tree:)This is not a scam, Mike, it's old 
Swiss tradition. National hero Wilhelm Tell penetrated an apple on the head of 
his little son with an arrow made of Twannberg iron.Believe me : - )MatthiasAm 
07.09.2016 um 00:22 schrieb Michael Farmer via Meteorite-list:> This is a scam 
on a whole new level.>> 
http://m.wcvb.com/news/man-says-pear-on-tree-was-hit-by-meteorite/41536838>> 
Michael Farmer> __>> Visit our 
Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at 
http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com> Meteorite-list mailing list> 
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> 
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 our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives 
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Re: [meteorite-list] We Have A Neighbor

2016-08-27 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
"Not to be overly picky, but it's 
MR. WEBB, not Mrs. Webb...
 
Mr. Sterling Webb"

Maybe Messrs. Webb?  The Mr. Webb on the met-list at Venus Centauri (Proxima 
Centauri-b) has been excited lately posting about Earth (known there as 
Telemus-f).  Their buzz, led by their Sterling Webb-b, is that on Telemus-f 
meteorites have the potential to fall all over the planet.  On Venus Centauri, 
meteorite hunting strategy is to go to a Planet magnetic dipole, the only place 
where meteorites fall commonly.  

Meteorite hunters there bring a lounge chair and kick off their shoes at a safe 
distance and bring a few books to read or connect to their Exonet with their 
reading tablets.  Every few days, they are briefly interrupted by a freshly 
witnessed fall event and they charge in to collect the space rocks.  Meteorite 
hunting is dangerous though. Some achondrites (called mash stones, or more 
properly mashers) have been known to fall around the edges of the defined 
concentrated field fall zones.  They are the most valuable when they kill 
meteorite hunters, going for several times the value of their weight in fine 
purple quartz (on Earth known as amethyst), the most valuable, culturally 
important gemstone on their planet.

Kindest wishes
Doug





-Original Message-
From: Sterling K. Webb via Meteorite-list 
To: meteorite-list 
Sent: Sat, Aug 27, 2016 1:54 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] We Have A Neighbor

Hi, Paul, List,
 
Not to be overly picky, but it's 
MR. WEBB, not Mrs. Webb...
 
Mr. Sterling Webb 
---
From: Meteorite-list [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On
Behalf Of Paul via Meteorite-list
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2016 7:48 PM
To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] We Have A Neighbor

In "We Have A Neighbor," Mrs. Webb wrote: 
 
"Hi,"We have a neighboring planet
only 4 light years away. It's
small, earth-like, in the
habitable zone of its star,
yada-yada.

Everybody's going crazy...

Me too."

The paper is:

Anglada-Escudé, G., P. J. Amado, J. Barnes, and others, 2016, A
terrestrial planet candidate in a temperate orbit around Proxima
Centauri. Nature. vol. 536, pp. 437–440 (25 August 2016)
doi:10.1038/nature19106
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v536/n7617/full/nature19106.html

PDF file at
https://www.eso.org/public/archives/releases/sciencepapers/eso1629/eso1629a.
pdf

Yours,

Paul H.

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Re: [meteorite-list] FW: Incredible Wine Alert: Barry Schuler's Meteor

2016-08-21 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
"Barry Schuler's Meteor"

OK, I aslo had been hearing about this ... let me share what a quick check up 
on it yielded:  Nothing meteoric about this besides a 5 cent label (Does the 
owner collect meteorites?  I dunno).

Looks to me like the "meteor" name was was inspired from the company Medior, 
Inc. in the 1990's.  Mr. Schuler went bankrupt with his prior Internet bubble 
company.  Not content with that, Medior was incorporated as a company that took 
its name from adding *media* content ... mainly to Apple and AOL as it turned 
out.  Eventually AOL took it over and with him in management worked through 
inflating valuations until they could take over Time-Warner in the world's most 
lopsided, poorly made merger imaginable.

At that time AOL (which included Medior attempting to "develop AOL further) was 
widely hated by almost everyone on the Internet due to their marketing and 
billing practices.  When AOL crashed and burned, the owner's golden parachute 
and his 1990's sweet dream in life was to make it big and retire in a vineyard 
with his business partner he married then.  The first commercial single-origin 
bottles (vs sold to blenders) were produced in 2005 and and more quantities in 
2006.  Since 2013, the 2006 is supposed to be entering its prime, which should 
continue another 8 years or so.  Since the price has been edging down it looks 
like it is not doing as well as they hoped.

Anyway, the meteor business is purely a marketing label, unless you consider 
all the river rocks (could be viewed as meteor-wrongs!) that were scattered 
throughout the vineyard, there is nothing interesting here.

From the folks who brought you AOL, and made you hate it, over $100 per bottle 
shipped (at 59% off "list" today only), the only meteoric thing I can find to 
review about this wine is its price ... *gulp* (gulps on sale are $10 ea.)...

That said, if you think it tastes good, that would be thanks to the couple 
working the land that put their heart and soul into administering the place and 
I wish them well as all hard-working American farmers!  Disclaimer:  Never 
tasted it, and probably never will.

I predict that wine futures of this beverage will crash and burn in its time 
... like any good meteor, after the lights go out, just like AOL which 
incidentally is currently an excellent service for economical email under new 
management that is no longer looking at creating a modern-day tulipmania and 
cashing in before brick and mortar folk have time to mull over what's happening 
:-)

Kindest wishes
Doug



-Original Message-
From: Mendy Ouzillou via Meteorite-list 
To: meteorite-list 
Sent: Sun, Aug 21, 2016 11:02 am
Subject: [meteorite-list] FW: Incredible Wine Alert: Barry Schuler's Meteor

A little while back, someone was asking about bottles of wine from this winery. 
I can't remember who was asking, so here is a link for 59% off this very 
expensive wine. This offer is only good for today and no, I won’t be buying 
any. :-)Mendy 
Ouzillouhttp://winespies.us5.list-manage.com/track/click?u=c8fa2b61a591522276e10a4e4=a29666bf6e=15c17b2e2a
 DAILY DISPATCHToday’s Curated Wine:Meteor Vineyard2006 Napa Valley Cabernet 
Sauvignonhttp://winespies.us5.list-manage.com/track/click?u=c8fa2b61a591522276e10a4e4=f5747cb9f9=15c17b2e2aUPS
 Ground Shipping Included on 4+ bottles$215.00AVG. PRICE$89.00(59% 
off)__Visit our Facebook page 
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[meteorite-list] replying to/contacting posters in private

2016-08-05 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Hello Andries and all infrequent posters especially,

For what it's worth, based on my email program, upon receiving a post:

1. You probably can reply in private to a poster by simply opening the 
individual post in your email program and clicking reply.  If you are set up on 
the list to receive daily consolidated posts that obviously won't work.

2.  You probably can reply to both the original poster's private email and at 
the same time get the message copied to the 1700-member list by clicking on the 
"reply all" or equivalent in your email program.

Be smart to be especially careful when you intend to reply in private to 
verify, especially during the heat of the moment or when you are drowsy.  Hold 
the trigger click and carefully review the addresses in the To:, cc:, and bcc: 
fields in your email.

This is good practice everywhere.  It can avoid embarrassing situations of 
personal emails being sent to everyone worldwide.  It also avoids being forced 
to post your own email address just to get a reply.  Since it goes into the 
online Google-searchable archives it could cause spammers to get it and misuse 
it.

Note: This  is how my browser works with replying.  You can test your own 
browser to see if you get the same results, by experimenting with the reply and 
reply all functions of your individual browser.  I have not seen this described 
elsewhere so I am adding it to help those who don't post often, just for a 
helpful 2 centavos and to make sure you don't accidentally post private 
messages in violation of already very generous list policies, that on a 
personal level are going to follow Murphy's Law in that the one time you drop 
your attention and care, that will certainly be the one message you feel bad 
about posting.

Andries, I have typed your email in the Bcc: (blind carbon copy) field of this 
reply.  Probably this is the best way to reply when you want to post as well as 
make the original sender(s) on a thread get duplicate private messages to the 
post to alert someone privately that you'd especially like them to see the post 
you are making.  You preserve their privacy in this way from spambots that mine 
data, especially if they are not interested in advertising with their email 
address.

Kindest wishes
Doug


-Original Message-
From: andries goedhart via Meteorite-list 
To: M come Meteorite Meteorites via Meteorite-list 

Sent: Fri, Aug 5, 2016 3:44 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AD - Castiglione del Lago  slices





Hi Matteo,


I do not see your email adress...can you contact me at andriesam...@live.nl for 
weight and prices of the Castiglione del Lago specimens?


Best regards, Andries 





Verzonden vanaf mijn Samsung-apparaat



 Oorspronkelijk bericht 
Van: M come Meteorite Meteorites via Meteorite-list 

Datum: 05-08-2016 14:38 (GMT+01:00) 
Aan: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com 
Onderwerp: [meteorite-list] AD - Castiglione del Lago slices 



hello


I want inform I have for sale few slices of this meteorite under vacuum resin 
seen the high problems of rust of this meteorite, for who want the slice 
without resin, this is possible take off withthinners for resin




http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/index.php?sea=castiglione=namescontains=50=ge==Italy=year=All=All===0=Normal%20table=63246



For info write to me
regards


Matteo


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Re: [meteorite-list] Lucky teen inches from death as METEORITE crash lands next to him

2016-08-01 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Two and a half years ago down the highway from here in the West Palm Beach 
area, Wayne Lippard, started another one of these tall tales for his 7 year old 
kid gash in his head.

The press did a terrible job researching the story and focused on human 
interest instead of the facts.  Now it's in cyberland unanswered a long time 
since no one really cares to correct a story to a meteor-wrong...  You have to 
watch the test after 1:40 in the video to see how scientific the news report 
was!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_Kr2ECIgHE

kindest wishes
Doug



-Original Message-
From: Deborah Anne K. Martin via Meteorite-list 

To: meteorite-list 
Sent: Mon, Aug 1, 2016 11:27 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lucky teen inches from death as METEORITE crash 
lands next to him

Gerrit Blank anyone ?

Andre

From: Meteorite-list [meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] on behalf of 
Tommy via Meteorite-list [meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com]
Sent: August 1, 2016 11:48 AM
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Lucky teen inches from death as METEORITE crash   
lands next to him

Rght.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/534338/Lucky-teen-inches-death-METEORITE-crash-lands-next-him


Regards!


Tom

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Re: [meteorite-list] Lucky teen inches from death as METEORITE crash lands next to him

2016-08-01 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Thanks Dirk, it is hilarious how a dubious UK tabloid (the Daily Star) can 
recycle a real news story three days after its publication in an unrecognizable 
form, which was professionally reported in the Czech press - interestingly 
enough the professional reporting was by the Czech tabloid press.  

The original article was clear that the observatory person, Pavel Brom 
characterized it as likely slag nor said nothing about finding the particular 
orbit.  There were no mentions of near death (only that it was two meters 
away), but that someone might be tossing rocks.

The Daily Star goes viral and collects a wave of clicks based on their 
distorted fairy tale, it still stays invisible as the trashy rag it is.  Let's 
call the British Daily Star out for blatantly misreporting international events 
and perpetuating false meteorite event stereotyping.

...And for disrespecting journalism in the Czech Republic - there is no 
journalistic honor in taking the responsibly reported Czech story and with a 
heavy disingenuous hand, re-writing it into a science fantasy to line with 
cash, the pockets of  "Richard 'Dirty' Desmond".  

Desmond is criminal owner of the Star and learned his tabloid trade well by 
involvement with his rise in the porn industry.  By pursuing this tabloid 
strategy, he has become one of the world's newest billionaires, despite threats 
on the way up by Italo-American bosses to kill him for cheating them in New 
York (for cheating them in joint porn dealings).  He is reputed to have 
apologized for cheating them saying he didn't know who they were, and giving 
them over $3 million dollars in unmarked bills to settle his errors in a seedy 
meeting in a restaurant.

Kindest wishes
Doug




-Original Message-
From: drtanuki <drtan...@yahoo.com>
To: MexicoDoug <mexicod...@aol.com>; countdeiro <countde...@earthlink.net>; 
tommy58 <tomm...@hvc.rr.com>; meteorite-list 
<meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Mon, Aug 1, 2016 2:05 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lucky teen inches from death as METEORITE crash   
lands next to him

Doug, Thanks for the much clearer photograph!

Lunar Göranlindforite?!  One of the rarest of all Luna tics to have nearly 
struck him!  Looks like real deal to me. Too bad it missed; we could have had a 
wrong hammer-- 

Michael Blood, have your ears picked up?

Is this #3 or #4 of hear miss kids? Ah, the poor German lad did get cuts.

I am still waiting for my micro of the two Indian killer. 
Dirk Ross...Tokyo The Latest Worldwide Meteor/Meteorite News 
http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/



____
From: MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
To: countde...@earthlink.net; tomm...@hvc.rr.com; 
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com 
Sent: Tuesday, August 2, 2016 2:48 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lucky teen inches from death as METEORITE crash   
 lands next to him


Hola listers

If anyone wants to look at this bubbly mass of slag, since the dimensions are 
not clearly stated, it is much easier just to look at at clear picture rather 
than listen to the second hand poor photo from another source linked in Tommy's 
message.  

Guido, please don't criticize the Czech press when you are reading an English 
article from the sensationalists in the UK Daily Star.  

Original publication photo at higest rez:

http://img.blesk.cz/img/1/full/2789272_.jpg

The source article has three comments something like this:

1. If the scientist think it is a meteorite then it is
2. it is a piece of sh*t from an airplane toilet
3. will the government grab it from the owner

ref:  
http://www.blesk.cz/clanek/zpravy-udalosti/409629/zahada-na-mladoboleslavsku-pred-mateje-17-spadl-meteorit.html

Kindest wishes
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Count Deiro via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
To: Tommy <tomm...@hvc.rr.com>; meteorite-list 
<meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Mon, Aug 1, 2016 12:55 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lucky teen inches from death as METEORITE crash   
 lands next to him

Hi all,

This story is so full of unforced errors it is an insult to a reader's 
intelligence. Some, not all, are the photo of the specimen is deliberately 
blurred, but what we see is something with a lithography and color unlike a 
fresh fall.. and the weight is way less than what would be expected from the 
reported size..and he holds it with a cloth in one hand while touching it with 
his bare other.

Major Czech b.s...

Count Deiro
IMCA 3536 

-Original Message-
>From: Tommy via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
>Sent: Aug 1, 2016 8:48 AM
>To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>Subject: [meteorite-list] Lucky teen inches from death as METEORITE crash
>lands next to him
>
>
>Rght.
>
>http://www.dailystar.co.uk/n

Re: [meteorite-list] Lucky teen inches from death as METEORITE crash lands next to him

2016-08-01 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Hola listers

If anyone wants to look at this bubbly mass of slag, since the dimensions are 
not clearly stated, it is much easier just to look at at clear picture rather 
than listen to the second hand poor photo from another source linked in Tommy's 
message.  

Guido, please don't criticize the Czech press when you are reading an English 
article from the sensationalists in the UK Daily Star.  

Original publication photo at higest rez:

http://img.blesk.cz/img/1/full/2789272_.jpg

The source article has three comments something like this:

1. If the scientist think it is a meteorite then it is
2. it is a piece of sh*t from an airplane toilet
3. will the government grab it from the owner

ref:  
http://www.blesk.cz/clanek/zpravy-udalosti/409629/zahada-na-mladoboleslavsku-pred-mateje-17-spadl-meteorit.html

Kindest wishes
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Count Deiro via Meteorite-list 
To: Tommy ; meteorite-list 

Sent: Mon, Aug 1, 2016 12:55 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lucky teen inches from death as METEORITE crash   
lands next to him

Hi all,

This story is so full of unforced errors it is an insult to a reader's 
intelligence. Some, not all, are the photo of the specimen is deliberately 
blurred, but what we see is something with a lithography and color unlike a 
fresh fall.. and the weight is way less than what would be expected from the 
reported size..and he holds it with a cloth in one hand while touching it with 
his bare other.

Major Czech b.s...

Count Deiro
IMCA 3536 

-Original Message-
>From: Tommy via Meteorite-list 
>Sent: Aug 1, 2016 8:48 AM
>To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>Subject: [meteorite-list] Lucky teen inches from death as METEORITE crash  
>lands next to him
>
>
>Rght.
>
>http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/534338/Lucky-teen-inches-death-METEORITE-crash-lands-next-him
>
>
>Regards!
>
>
>Tom
>
>__
>
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Re: [meteorite-list] More Than Meteorites Fall from the Sky

2016-07-29 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
"Blue Ice meteorite" as quoted in the article, sounds like it could be an 
exciting find from The Antarctic!


-Original Message-
From: Paul Swartz via Meteorite-list 
To: meteorite-list 
Sent: Fri, Jul 29, 2016 12:42 pm
Subject: [meteorite-list] More Than Meteorites Fall from the Sky

Hmm. A meteorite from Uranus. Expect prices to be high!

Paul Swartz
IMCA 5204
MPOD Web Master (now accepting photo contributions)
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Re: [meteorite-list] Another warning re sales to Italy

2016-07-26 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Hi Michael,

Sorry you were aggravated by the situation, and understandably since it really 
is a labor of love you like it is for most dealers.  I'm glad the collector 
squared up despite the misunderstanding, out of the goodness of his heart, as I 
assumed he would. :-)

I tried to understand what he wrote, but I couldn't be sure.  It appears the 
final deal was a ~$350 Henbury (402 g) 
http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/Henbury402_6gA.jpg
to which Italian customs added $110 dlls plus the ~$40 (of $50 intended).  No 
matter any more except to understand the details ... now it's yesterday's news 
and life goes on only nominally pausing.  My respect to both of you guys for 
having persistence and patience!  The iron depicted in the link is a quite 
attractive one if it is the one in question, and worth it in the collection 
liquidation, in my opinion ... I love Henburys.  Paul posted a nice one on June 
30's MPOD too ...

Kindest wishes
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Michael Blood <mlbl...@cox.net>
To: MexicoDoug <mexicod...@aol.com>; Meteorite List 
<meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Mon, Jul 25, 2016 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another warning re sales to Italy

Hi Doug,
I am glad to hear your dealings with this individual have been
Positive. I cannot say the same. However, after denying he refused
To pay the shipment (this sounds like a refusal to me:

" So I must pay 110$ for shipment... More other 150 or more for Italian
custom with fedex..
No is impossible pay so much for Henbury.
Sorry
Davide" )

he finally did send me almost all the remainder of the shipping
cost. 
I still will never sell anything to anyone in Italy again due to all
the reports on their postal system and on individuals, including this
One (see Bessey post).
   Again, happy your dealings have been more positive.
Michael 

On 7/24/16 4:28 PM, "MexicoDoug" <mexicod...@aol.com> wrote:

> Thanks Captain B,
> 
> As we say, "A bad negotiation is better than a good fight."
> 
> 99% your customer is not the one you thought.  That suspicion is hurting you.
> You can Google the customer and find out one by his name has done a couple of
> exhibitions for Emilia-Romagna, lectures and belongs to a local astronomical
> society, gives advice on meteorites even including one case where there was a
> shipping question in which his reply was to work with the Seller to resolve
> it.  Try one more time, maybe a show of goodwill above and beyond what is
> required offer to split the $60, and do it face to face by calling dado_sanna
> on Skype ...   
> 
> Next time just collect shipping costs up front ... rather than exposing
> yourself.  I feel for your customer's situation, having been in a similar one
> for many years because of the unfortunate state of the local postal service
> and the rampant corruption and pilfering throughout the system.  I hope you
> will reconsider supporting our enthusiastic Italian (Brasilian, Russian and
> Mexican) friends so as to do a part in giving them access to reputable
> meteorite sellers.
> 
> Although your customer's expectations were misplaced, it is still a case of
> misunderstanding that could have been prevented - even if that meant two trips
> to FedEx if it was too difficult to calculate the shipping cost yourself.
> 
> In the case of Italy, ask if they can cough up a shipping address to a
> different EU nation to initially receive the shipment and from where they can
> be responsible to reship to the Italian address.  The situation is far less
> problematic if the parcel arriving in Italy originates in the current
> Eurozone, vs. the US and Canada which at this moment happen to be outside the
> walls surrounding Byzantium.  It will likely get their much faster too, so it
> can benefit them.
> 
> While this may not make sense to many people who take for granted less
> problematical postal services, or don't care about the little saintly
> collector, speaking from personal experience and cravings, sometimes there are
> specimens that are "must have" and being told "NO!  I don't ship to X" can be
> a huge depressant.
> 
> If the collector is conscientious about their situation, they can just adjust
> their purchases accordingly and save up for the moments that are truly
> special, and better yet, get a helping hand from other sympathetic European
> collectors.  I responded to this thread because too often I had the "We don't
> ship to X", door slammed in my face.  It never happened with meteorites but
> was a problem with larger companies.  You did a nice thing, btw, and I don't
> think you will end up burnt in the end since the collector had a
> misunderstanding and I am sure he will want to correct it

Re: [meteorite-list] Another warning re sales to Italy

2016-07-24 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Thanks Captain B,

As we say, "A bad negotiation is better than a good fight."  

99% your customer is not the one you thought.  That suspicion is hurting you.  
You can Google the customer and find out one by his name has done a couple of 
exhibitions for Emilia-Romagna, lectures and belongs to a local astronomical 
society, gives advice on meteorites even including one case where there was a 
shipping question in which his reply was to work with the Seller to resolve it. 
 Try one more time, maybe a show of goodwill above and beyond what is required 
offer to split the $60, and do it face to face by calling dado_sanna on Skype 
...   

Next time just collect shipping costs up front ... rather than exposing 
yourself.  I feel for your customer's situation, having been in a similar one 
for many years because of the unfortunate state of the local postal service and 
the rampant corruption and pilfering throughout the system.  I hope you will 
reconsider supporting our enthusiastic Italian (Brasilian, Russian and Mexican) 
friends so as to do a part in giving them access to reputable meteorite sellers.

Although your customer's expectations were misplaced, it is still a case of 
misunderstanding that could have been prevented - even if that meant two trips 
to FedEx if it was too difficult to calculate the shipping cost yourself.

In the case of Italy, ask if they can cough up a shipping address to a 
different EU nation to initially receive the shipment and from where they can 
be responsible to reship to the Italian address.  The situation is far less 
problematic if the parcel arriving in Italy originates in the current Eurozone, 
vs. the US and Canada which at this moment happen to be outside the walls 
surrounding Byzantium.  It will likely get their much faster too, so it can 
benefit them.

While this may not make sense to many people who take for granted less 
problematical postal services, or don't care about the little saintly 
collector, speaking from personal experience and cravings, sometimes there are 
specimens that are "must have" and being told "NO!  I don't ship to X" can be a 
huge depressant.  

If the collector is conscientious about their situation, they can just adjust 
their purchases accordingly and save up for the moments that are truly special, 
and better yet, get a helping hand from other sympathetic European collectors.  
I responded to this thread because too often I had the "We don't ship to X", 
door slammed in my face.  It never happened with meteorites but was a problem 
with larger companies.  You did a nice thing, btw, and I don't think you will 
end up burnt in the end since the collector had a misunderstanding and I am 
sure he will want to correct it in a positive manner.

As for Italy, firm cash up front, insurance (U-pic or InsurePost), and check 
registered FC mail rules on commercial sales to see what's permitted and what's 
not ...

Kindest wishes
Doug




-Original Message-
From: Michael Blood <mlbl...@cox.net>
To: MexicoDoug <mexicod...@aol.com>; Meteorite List 
<meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sun, Jul 24, 2016 2:31 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another warning re sales to Italy

Hi Doug,
Thanks for the kind words. However, I have saved all
The emails and believe me, there was absolutely no confusion
Re shipping - -clarified clearly (twice) that if Fed EX were
less than $50 I would refund him the difference and if it
were more than $50 he would have to agree to paypal me
the difference.
He stated I should  not have put the "real value" on the shipment -
AFTER I had sent it - When Fed Ex turned out to be more, then
He complained he would have to pay the import fee and wouldn't
Pay any more for the shipping.
Kind and gentle is always best and I tried that for several
Posts to no avail whatever.
No, this is a clear cut case of being ripped off. I suspect it is
Our old "friend" as his approach is nearly identical and his English
Is similarly distorted. But whether it is or not the results are identical.
I, too, like to think people are basically honest and live up to
Their commitments and I do deal with people that way and the vast
Majority of people in the meteorite community are that way.
Also, I do not believe for a second this is "typical of Italians" -
only two - and possibly only one - have/has acted this way. Every
Country has both the saintly and the cur.
Good to hear from you, Doug,
Michael

On 7/23/16 10:32 PM, "MexicoDoug" <mexicod...@aol.com> wrote:

> Michael,
> 
> How discouraging, as if doing what you love wasn't already a labor of love.
> Your customer appears to be a dedicated collector, exhibitor, lecturer, and
> dealer (involved with meteorites and as using them as raw materials for
> selling trinkets and watch dials, including to school c

Re: [meteorite-list] Another warning re sales to Italy

2016-07-23 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Michael,

How discouraging, as if doing what you love wasn't already a labor of love.  
Your customer appears to be a dedicated collector, exhibitor, lecturer, and 
dealer (involved with meteorites and as using them as raw materials for selling 
trinkets and watch dials, including to school children).  You could 
double-check if it is not a miscommunication from your message exchange 
defining who was supposed to pay for what.  The immediate problem was not 
Italy, as much as the expensive, secure shipping cost which you understood was 
to be paid by him as it sounds like he received the meteorite and you have a 
tracking receipt.

Or, next time you are in Rimini, stop by this hair salon and go collect if the 
friendly approach doesn't pan out.  Maybe settle for a seafood risotto.  I'd 
make an appointment first and bring a bottle of wine @ (+39)3485447938.  He 
really doesn't seem like a scammer!

Kindest wishes
Doug



-Original Message-
From: Michael Farmer via Meteorite-list 
To: Michael Blood ; Meteorite Mailing List 

Sent: Sat, Jul 23, 2016 9:37 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Another warning re sales to Italy

Why do people ignore warnings? Italy is notorious for 
scams and stolen packages. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 23, 2016, at 6:36 PM, Michael Blood via Meteorite-list 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
>You all may recall that several years ago multiple
> Dealers warned against sales to Italy. It seams at
> Least one buyer was claiming not to have received
> Shipments that were verified, not to have received
> Money that was sent him, etc.
> 
>Unfortunately, I failed to head warnings about
> Shipping to Italy. A different Italian contacted me (Or
> At least one using a different name and email) and
> I explained even Registered Mail seems to fail to
> guarantee delivery in Italy but I somehow allowed
> him to talk me into a Fed Ex shipment of a specimen.
> I agreed, providing he send $50 shipping and agree
> to pay any additional amount Fed Ex might charge.
> 
>   Perhaps it is the same fellow from several years ago
> Using a different name (he was so good at that Art could
> Not keep him off the list because he would just join again
> Using a different name and email). So, beware of:
> 
> "Davide Urbinati" 
> 
> 
>Even though I scanned the receipt and sent it to him
> He refused to pay the $59.79 Fed Ex charged me. So, I am
> Out that $.
> 
>Believe me, I will never ship to Italy again.
> 
>Better luck to all of you,
>Michael Blood
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
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> Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
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Re: [meteorite-list] Earth time dilation: minimal latitude-dependence

2016-07-21 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
> I'm now working through the math to figure 
> out the latitude on earth where you age the
> slowest. ;-)

Hi Rob, and fellow time pirates,

That's one interesting calculation and I'd have thought the latitude was 
slam-dunk 90 N, because that's over 20 km closer to the center of gravity all 
surface points on the equator according to the shapes that fit the spinning 
oblate globe!  

Time dilation at the north pole factory, and near-light speed travel (like over 
99.% the speed of light) could help explain how Santa's factory churns out 
all those toys in such a short time and easily delivers them, plus NORAD keeps 
a very close eye on him: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LppGorkw508

However given the speed he travels at, I would think Santa's waistline would be 
ablated after the run, and he would leave ionic trails. Not to mention, 
Rudolf's nose would be blue-shifted beyond UV the spectrum of visible light. 
(Which means the above NORAD video describes an inefficient tracking procedure) 
... so maybe they have ulterior motives.

How to define "aging"?  A loss of a few unhealthy isotopes?  Biological clocks 
are as complicated a finding the Fountain of Youth here in Florida (though it 
may exist in a deep sinkhole somewhere) ... and have a temperature dependence.

A meteoroid on the other hand can weather (suspended on autopilot) 4.57 billion 
years and be fresh aside from the isotope composition, unless it meets some 
heat, radiation, reactants such as oxygen, and/or solvents like water.

And even further back to meteorites:  Rob's comment that Earth's core is around 
a year or two younger helps motivate ballpark limits of aging in the context of 
the original discussion on meteorite age.  If the core of Earth is limited to 
be calculated as 2.5 years younger than the crust, this is the order of 
magnitude of the limit we are dealing with for time dilation for most 
meteoroids.

We can compare that to the age of the Solar System, which is peer reviewed from 
a refractory inclusion in NWA 2364 (CV3) that give the age as 4,568.2 million 
years.  Without looking up if they covered their error bars in the 
determination, just consider the significant figures alone they quote which 
leave us with an uncertainty of 100,000 years.   So before we have to worry 
about time dilation for native small Solar System objects forcing a time 
adjustment, we will have to know the age of the Solar System to within say, 10 
years or so.  Not that Rome was built in a day ;-)

Kindest wishes,
Doug



-Original Message-
From: Matson, Rob D. <robert.d.mat...@leidos.com>
To: MexicoDoug <mexicod...@aol.com>; meteorite-list 
<meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thu, Jul 21, 2016 4:13 pm
Subject: Earth time dilation: minimal latitude-dependence

Hi All,

> I'm now working through the math to figure out the latitude on earth where you
> age the slowest.

Turns out the combination of 1/r GR effect from mass, a latitude-dependent 
quadrupole
component, and the centripetal term (special relativity) due to the earth's 
rotation nearly
compensate for one another in such a way that there is very little change in 
clock speeds
at the earth's surface as a strict function of latitude. Clocks run slowest at 
the equator,
marginally faster at midlatitudes, and then slower again at the poles (but not 
quite as
slow as at the equator). Local changes in gravitational field strength probably 
dominate
over changes with latitude. And altitude plays a much stronger roll at any 
latitude.

--Rob


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Re: [meteorite-list] More fun with GR

2016-07-21 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Hi Rob and the other meteoroidal travelers,

I'd say a good mean altitude for government work would be about half of Earth's 
radius, and that ought to smooth out any technicalities to gain an 
understanding of the magnitudes which is what is interestng about the new 
question.

A shortcut to calculate that is to set the free fall velocity (no atmosphere) 
equal to the orbital (tangential) velocity; it avoids the calculus by using the 
velocity derived from the drop in potential from orbit altitude to surface 
level.

v^2 = GM/r'  (orbital)
v^2 = 2GM/r -2GM/r' (gravitational)

If you solve for the altitude simultaneously, r'-r, you get the altitude of 
half again Earth's diameter easily.

Unless there are more Golgafrinchans lurking somewhere in the thread history!

That is a Medium Earth Orbit.  In a perfect universe, 3189 km altitude.  
Nothing special orbit wise, unless you are temporally centric in which case it 
could be called a temporally synchronous orbit, which clearly the universe is 
notvery concerned about as we are ;-)

Kindest wishes
Doug








-Original Message-
From: James Beauchamp <falco...@sbcglobal.net>
To: Matson, Rob D. <robert.d.mat...@leidos.com>
Cc: MexicoDoug <mexicod...@aol.com>; meteorite-list 
<meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thu, Jul 21, 2016 10:31 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] More fun with GR

For the satellite, it varies according to the gravity field it flies over.

Technically none exists because the gravity field is never constant.  It 
dithers.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 21, 2016, at 2:01 AM, Matson, Rob D. via Meteorite-list 
<meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> wrote:

Hi Doug,

I think you would have come up with the correct answer if I had given
a more precise value for the clock slow down relative to a stationary
clock in deep space:  it should be 0.69693 parts per billion relative to
a clock at sea-level on the earth's equator, or 60.2 microseconds per
day. It is no accident that the distant rock's velocity would need to be
11.19 km/sec for its clock to remain synchronized with one on the
earth's equator. That value should be very familiar to meteorite folks. :-)

Here's a harder, but related problem:  at what altitude must a
satellite in a circular orbit fly for its clock to run at the same speed
as a clock on the earth's equator?

Another interesting GR factoid:  the core of the earth is actually
2 1/2 years younger than the crust (ignoring convection in the core,
plate tectonics, etc.) If the earth is modeled as having constant density,
the calculation works out to about 1 1/2 years younger, but of course
earth is much denser at the core, resulting in even greater time dilation
there.  --Rob
____
From: MexicoDoug [mexicod...@aol.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 4:03 PM
To: Matson, Rob D.; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] age of meteorites

Rob and all,

> For instance, even at solar system escape velocity
> at earth's distance from the sun (42 km/sec)

What is...The ultimate question of life and the answer to everything?

> Extra-credit question for the mathematically
> inclined:  at what velocity relative to the earth
> would a meteoroid have to travel to have its
> clock stay in sync with a clock at the earth's
> surface?  :-)

Given the figure you mention of 0.6 ppb (52 microseconds per day faster) this 
question asks be nullified, maybe 10 km/s velocity relative to earth?

A good relative velocity to hunt a flock of wild space geese coming to roost on 
Earth, wearing accurate Rolexes ...  But should the meteoroid transition to our 
gravity, the on-board Rolex might abandon its precision for a few spectacular 
minutes, and have an "error" of a couple of nanoseconds ;-)

Kindest wishes
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Matson, Rob D. via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
To: meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Mon, Jul 18, 2016 6:43 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] age of meteorites

It's not a bad idea, Pete, but unfortunately the time dilation is  really 
minimal unless you get up
to a substantial fraction of the speed of light. For instance, even at solar 
system escape velocity
at earth's distance from the sun (42 km/sec), a meteoroid's clock would be 
running at about
10 parts per billion slower than that of a stationary rock. (Additional note: 
due to general relativity,
a clock on a meteoroid would be running about 0.6 parts per billion *faster* 
than a clock at the
earth's surface, but that is more than made up for by the time dilation due to 
special relativity.)

Extra-credit question for the mathematically inclined:  at what velocity 
relative to the earth
would a meteoroid have to travel to have its clock stay in sync with a clock at 
the earth's
surface?  :-) --Rob

-Original Message-
From: Meteorite-list [mailto:m

Re: [meteorite-list] age of meteorites

2016-07-20 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Rob and all,

>For instance, even at solar system escape velocity 
>at earth's distance from the sun (42 km/sec)

What is...The ultimate question of life and the answer to everything?

>Extra-credit question for the mathematically 
>inclined:  at what velocity relative to the earth
>would a meteoroid have to travel to have its
>clock stay in sync with a clock at the earth's
>surface?  :-) 

Given the figure you mention of 0.6 ppb (52 microseconds per day faster) this 
question asks be nullified, maybe 10 km/s velocity relative to earth?

A good relative velocity to hunt a flock of wild space geese coming to roost on 
Earth, wearing accurate Rolexes ...  But should the meteoroid transition to our 
gravity, the on-board Rolex might abandon its precision for a few spectacular 
minutes, and have an "error" of a couple of nanoseconds ;-)

Kindest wishes
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Matson, Rob D. via Meteorite-list 
To: meteorite-list 
Sent: Mon, Jul 18, 2016 6:43 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] age of meteorites

It's not a bad idea, Pete, but unfortunately the time dilation is  really 
minimal unless you get up
to a substantial fraction of the speed of light. For instance, even at solar 
system escape velocity
at earth's distance from the sun (42 km/sec), a meteoroid's clock would be 
running at about
10 parts per billion slower than that of a stationary rock. (Additional note: 
due to general relativity,
a clock on a meteoroid would be running about 0.6 parts per billion *faster* 
than a clock at the
earth's surface, but that is more than made up for by the time dilation due to 
special relativity.)

Extra-credit question for the mathematically inclined:  at what velocity 
relative to the earth
would a meteoroid have to travel to have its clock stay in sync with a clock at 
the earth's
surface?  :-)  --Rob

-Original Message-
From: Meteorite-list [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On 
Behalf Of Pete Shugar via Meteorite-list
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2016 3:12 PM
To: The List
Subject: [meteorite-list] age of meteorites

greetings to all,
my background is in electronics. everything deals with either C or C2.
Einstein states that nothing goes faster than the speed of light and that as 
you approach the speed of light, things get older slower.
So this meteorite in it's travels is going at a rate that is a subtantual 
percentage of the speed of light. Has anyone taken this into consideration when 
placing an age on the meteorite?
Just a thought to tickle the old brain cells!!
Pete Shugar
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Re: [meteorite-list] Geometry and velocity trump gravity

2016-06-27 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Rob's is a great example to learn with.  

It significantly overestimates the bend (diversion) of the object's flyby.  Rob 
noted the acceleration at the initial point and final point were actually only 
subjected to 1/2 Earth's gravity that he applied when simplifying.  That was 
because he used the closest approach maximum acceleration throughout the 
encounter, rather than dealing with the acceleration weakening over the 6.6 
Earth diameter long trajectory.  The actual gravitational attraction 
experienced by the impactor is always lower than the gravity strength at 
closest approach.  

Let's have a little more fun using Rob's example.  He calculated bend was close 
to 2,000 km for the object whose close approach was roughly 36,000 km. Since 
his 70 minutes of interaction happened half before closest approach, and half 
after, let's see how much closer, under these generous assumptions, that the 
object got to Earth impact.  Just use Rob's distance formula with 35 minutes in 
place of 70 min:

X = 0.5 * 0.224 * (2108)^2  ... I've substituted 35 min (~2108 sec) where he 
had 70 min (~4216 sec)
X = 498,000 meters or about 500 km

Notice 1/4 of the bend happens before closest approach, and 3/4 after, since we 
are talking about constant acceleration. So if we calculate not only on the 
bend of the trajectory, but also take a snapshot at close approach to impact, 
it is actually a measly 500 km closer than the 36,000 km geosynchronous 
altitude.   That's less than 1.4% closer.  And this is at a very close approach 
compared to the Earth Moon distance, which is approximately 10 times greater 
than the incoming object's distance in Rob's example! 

Just to take it further and see how generously the example is biased to favor 
impact, the next big simplification he took was to consider the acceleration 
always perpendicular to travel, in other words, always 100% sideways on the 
Earth-side.  That of course is not the true case (as pointed out in his 
assumptions).  

The acceleration in the perpendicular direction is only at closest approach.  
Before and after, some of the acceleration can be considered along the 
trajectory.  This "lost" acceleration away from the impact further diminishes 
the 1/2 factor Rob mentioned (dividing it by another sq. root of 2).  That 
translates into the gravitational acceleration of the real encounter being only 
1/3 that used, at the beginning and end points.  The real bend and change in 
orbital parameters can be calculated accurately when addressing ever changing 
position along the trajectory.

Best wishes
Doug





-Original Message-
From: Rob Matson via Meteorite-list 
To: 'meteorite-list' 
Sent: Mon, Jun 27, 2016 12:01 am
Subject: [meteorite-list] Geometry and velocity trump gravity

Hi E.P.,

Doug's reply pretty much covers it, but I wanted to give you an example so
that you can see how your intuition is failing you on this problem. Let's take
the case of a slower-than-average asteroid closing velocity encounter of
20 km/sec. And let's say that in the absence of any gravitational attraction
from the earth or the Moon, the asteroid would come no closer than the
altitude of geosynchronous satellites -- 35786 km. (This is a rather close
encounter, I'm sure you'd agree. Any trajectory with a more distant
point of closest approach would obviously experience less trajectory
bending than this case.) If we "turn on" earth's gravity, how much will
the trajectory be diverted toward the earth's center? Without getting into
the calculus of actually solving the problem, let's make some simplifying
assumptions that are very ~generous~ in the amount of gravitational
acceleration we're going to apply.

The acceleration due to gravity at the height of geosync satellites is
around 0.224 m/sec^2. Let's assume that that amount of acceleration is
applied during the entire encounter, and that it is always directed
perpendicular to the asteroid's original velocity vector. Define the start
of the encounter as being when the earth is 45 degrees to the left
of the velocity vector (at range 59629 km -- the square root of 2 times
the distance to the earth's center). The midpoint is when the earth
is 90 degrees to the left of the velocity vector (point of minimum
range to the earth center), and the end is when the earth is 135 degrees
to the left of the velocity vector. To first order, the distance travelled
is 2*42164 km = 84328 km. How long would it take in the absence of
gravity?  84328 km / (20 km/sec) = 4216 seconds -- a little over 70 minutes.
Recall your basic distance equation under constant acceleration:
X = 1/2 * A * T^2. Here we've generously allowed A to be 0.224 m/sec^2
for the entire encounter (when in fact A at the start is only half that).
What does X work out to?

X = 0.5 * 0.224 * (4216)^2 = 1.99 million meters or 1990 km.

Compare that to the 35768 km altitude of the GEO belt, and you see
that 

Re: [meteorite-list] What killed off megafauna?

2016-06-26 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Hi Ed and thanks for spirited discussion,

I already covered most of what's wrong with your caricature of the Earth-Moon 
system when I discussed cosmic velocities in my original post.  In science 
terms, the kinetic energy swamps the Earth's gravitational potential you are 
relying upon to protect the Moon from impact.

Unfortunately the media continue to characterize the Earth and Moon as if they 
were these massive objects a whisper apart.  It is as bad a caricature as it 
gets.  Your first link to the Cassini image is confusing you and not 
representative of the relatives sizes and distances of Earth's and the Moon's 
disks.  You are looking a images of light closer to the limit of the resolution 
from Saturn, which for all I know as well were taken at that precise moment to 
capture a Moonrise ... when the moon emerges from being eclipsed, an aesthetic 
planetary imaging target.  You are then saying this is what at impactor sees.  
Saturn is around a billion miles away!  That I assure you is not what an 
impactor sees!

Your second video is a joke.  Here is the video I ask you watch in reply to 
your bad geometry/astronomy lessons. as it pertains to impact shielding, and to 
give you a better visualization of how big space is and how insignificant our 
little planet is, even in the scheme of the Moon.  Try to imagine how few 
objects approach the Moon after grazing Earth, or how few would reach it if not 
impacting Earth:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bz9D6xba9Og

As far as adjusting our models, lol, that would be Newton's department, not 
mine, though Rob might enjoy tweaking Newton ;-).  The apple reputedly impacted 
his head and was not sucked into the trunk of the of the massive apple tree 
that had him daydreaming.  Had it been otherwise, Newton's law of gravity might 
have been different and the gravitational constant might have allowed the Earth 
to protect the Moon from impacts with some practical significance.  You do not 
provide a reference for your claim about significant impact protection of the 
Moon by Earth I won't reply on that one.  It requires digging through your 
notions of why Rob and I may have defective understandings.   There may be some 
interesting discussion there as to your notions and interpretations, but the 
other references you gave don't convince me to be a grunt at the moment ;-)

Back to the concept of cosmic velocity (and the related law of conservation of 
momentum).  If you take Newton's law of gravity between Earth and a would-be 
impactor coming in, and set it equal to the kinetic energy at the top of 
Earth's atmosphere it would need to be captured, you will see that the velocity 
relative to Earth must be less than 11.1 km/sec.  That is an awfully slow 
moving rock.  That speed is known as an escape velocity.  Notice I said at the 
top of our atmosphere (100 km high).  The speed drops off.  Geosynchronous 
satellites have an escape velocity of just 4.3 km/sec.  Cosmic velocities can 
well over 10 times that.  The orbits can be bent, but unless they are on a very 
precise path to impact long before entering the Earth Moon system, they simply 
would fly right on by if they are moving faster than this velocity but not 
already headed for impact. As a matter of fact, beyond a geosynchronous orbit, 
I believe the Sun's gravitational pull is greater than Earth's.  That'
 s a cool fact to know, considering Earth and the Moon are still pockmarked 
regularly.

This is the hard part of space exploration.  Impact or orbital insertion can be 
much more precision maneuvers than uncontrolled flybys.  If you think 
differently, I recommend taking up golf, maybe putting is easier than they say!

Kindest wishes
Doug



-Original Message-
From: E.P. Grondine via Meteorite-list 
To: meteorite-list 
Sent: Sun, Jun 26, 2016 12:11 pm
Subject: [meteorite-list] What killed off megafauna?

Hi Rob, Doug - 

(Glad to hear that you're doing okay, Doug)  

What both of you need to do is to take the perspective of a potential impactor 
passing through the inner solar system,
as seen in the first few seconds of this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDrBIKOR01c

The basic geometry of the problem is set out here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTDcfI2dabk

If it makes it easier,
think of the Earth-Moon system as a pair of girls at a darkly lit party, 
and yourself as a young man.
(A variant of the famous mathematical problem of the drunk's walk at the frat 
party.)
While you may be attracted to the "prettier" (in terms of gravity/area) Moon,
you are far more likely to run into her much larger "wingman", the Earth.
Sorry, but that is just the way it is.

At first, you're getting a warm fuzzy feeling (gravity) from the combined 
Earth/Moon system.
That warm fuzzy feeling varies by the cubes of the radius of each of the two 
bodies, 
and is located somewhere amongst them.

On your approach to the 

Re: [meteorite-list] What killed off megafauna?

2016-06-24 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
I gave the Earth a 200 km high atmosphere, so the protective factor is less 
than half the increase over an atmosphere-less Earth.  When factoring the 
atmosphere/gravity with a 100 km atmosphere the bottom line is:

Solid Earth fails to block 99.9931% of Lunar impactors (1/14,500 blocked).
Earth plus atmosphere/gravity fails to block 99.9929% of Lunar Impactors 
(1/14,100 blocked) 

keeping in mind this is at the extreme of the atmosphere stopping everything in 
its tracks, and then Earth's gravity pulling it in for Earth Impact, for those 
objects heading originally toward Lunar impact ...


-Original Message-
From: MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
To: ROBERT.D.MATSON <robert.d.mat...@leidos.com>; epgrondine 
<epgrond...@yahoo.com>; meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Fri, Jun 24, 2016 3:10 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What killed off megafauna?

The following scenario estimates error in protection referencing Earth's 
atmosphere rather than gravity alone.  It assumes Earth's atmosphere extends 
100 km into space and treats everything as spherical or spherical shells.  If 
all impactors crossing through the atmosphere are assumed sucked into Earth (an 
exaggeration, but a way to get a handle for the error) due to the deceleration 
they experience, the protection Earth with its atmosphere offers the Moon is 
less than 10% additional than if there were no Earthly atmosphere.  Gravity 
itself is even less of an effect.  Think about the example the Grand Teton 
fireball of 1972 passed through the atmosphere at a close approach of only 57 
km above ground level but did not impact Earth.  The concept is to focus on the 
relative cosmic velocities involved - impactors are generally totally different 
animals going on their ways, compared to satellites placed in precision Earth 
centered orbits (net vector of relative velocity to Earth i
 s zero) 
 which decay into falling junk.  

We can assume Earth will change the trajectories of potential impactors, but 
there will be no favoring of diverting vs. sending onward to Lunar collision 
trend.  

The one exception is that the Earth indeed can protect the Moon against these 
quasi Moon type NEOs by establishing a safe zone, but only one quasimoon vs. 
the rest of the objects in the neighborhood is an extremely minute fraction, or 
effectively maybe zero at times, of potential impactors. 

The numbers:,

Earth-Moon distance = 384,400 km

Earth Radius = 6,371 km
Earth plus atmosphere Radius = 6,571 km
Atmosphere defined with height = 100 km)

Area of Lunar spherical celestial shell at E-M distance
1.853 X 10^12 km2

Cross Sectional Area of solid Earth
1.275 X 10^8 km2
Cross Sectional Area of Earth with atmosphere
1.356 X 10^8 km2

ratio to solid Earth
1/14,500
ratio to Earth with atmosphere
1/13,700


Best wishes
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Matson, Rob D. via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
To: E.P. Grondine <epgrond...@yahoo.com>; meteorite-list 
<meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thu, Jun 23, 2016 10:03 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What killed off megafauna?

Earth provides no real protection for the Moon from asteroid/meteoroid impact. 
I think the earth subtends something like one 15,000th of the celestial sphere 
from Luna's perspective. Yes, there is a gravitational factor that improves 
that a bit, but you're still talking a tiny fraction of a percent "protection". 
Doubt it's even measurable as far as earth impact rate vs. Moon's.  --Rob

From: Meteorite-list [meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] on behalf of 
E.P. Grondine via Meteorite-list [meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 4:39 PM
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] What killed off megafauna?

Hi Paul -

Two of the impact events are now pretty well known:

http://archaeologica.boardbot.com/viewtopic.php?f=9=3656
http://archaeologica.boardbot.com/viewtopic.php?f=9=3668

Of course, work is just beginning on the sequence of impacts for South America 
and their
related meltwater pulses.

It is really strange to watch the psychological process of denial going on here.
I wish I had just a small part of the money spent on this denial for more 
research into what actually occurred.

Or better yet, have your personal salary dependent on actual impact research.
That would certainly focus your own fine skills.

BTW, you can not use impact data from the Moon in a straight line to estimate 
the
impact hazard for the Earth.

The Earth usually protects the Moon from impactors.

E.P.
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Re: [meteorite-list] What killed off megafauna?

2016-06-24 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
The following scenario estimates error in protection referencing Earth's 
atmosphere rather than gravity alone.  It assumes Earth's atmosphere extends 
100 km into space and treats everything as spherical or spherical shells.  If 
all impactors crossing through the atmosphere are assumed sucked into Earth (an 
exaggeration, but a way to get a handle for the error) due to the deceleration 
they experience, the protection Earth with its atmosphere offers the Moon is 
less than 10% additional than if there were no Earthly atmosphere.  Gravity 
itself is even less of an effect.  Think about the example the Grand Teton 
fireball of 1972 passed through the atmosphere at a close approach of only 57 
km above ground level but did not impact Earth.  The concept is to focus on the 
relative cosmic velocities involved - impactors are generally totally different 
animals going on their ways, compared to satellites placed in precision Earth 
centered orbits (net vector of relative velocity to Earth is zero) 
 which decay into falling junk.  

We can assume Earth will change the trajectories of potential impactors, but 
there will be no favoring of diverting vs. sending onward to Lunar collision 
trend.  

The one exception is that the Earth indeed can protect the Moon against these 
quasi Moon type NEOs by establishing a safe zone, but only one quasimoon vs. 
the rest of the objects in the neighborhood is an extremely minute fraction, or 
effectively maybe zero at times, of potential impactors. 

The numbers:,

Earth-Moon distance = 384,400 km

Earth Radius = 6,371 km
Earth plus atmosphere Radius = 6,571 km
Atmosphere defined with height = 100 km)

Area of Lunar spherical celestial shell at E-M distance
1.853 X 10^12 km2

Cross Sectional Area of solid Earth
1.275 X 10^8 km2
Cross Sectional Area of Earth with atmosphere
1.356 X 10^8 km2

ratio to solid Earth
1/14,500
ratio to Earth with atmosphere
1/13,700


Best wishes
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Matson, Rob D. via Meteorite-list 
To: E.P. Grondine ; meteorite-list 

Sent: Thu, Jun 23, 2016 10:03 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] What killed off megafauna?

Earth provides no real protection for the Moon from asteroid/meteoroid impact. 
I think the earth subtends something like one 15,000th of the celestial sphere 
from Luna's perspective. Yes, there is a gravitational factor that improves 
that a bit, but you're still talking a tiny fraction of a percent "protection". 
Doubt it's even measurable as far as earth impact rate vs. Moon's.  --Rob

From: Meteorite-list [meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] on behalf of 
E.P. Grondine via Meteorite-list [meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 4:39 PM
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] What killed off megafauna?

Hi Paul -

Two of the impact events are now pretty well known:

http://archaeologica.boardbot.com/viewtopic.php?f=9=3656
http://archaeologica.boardbot.com/viewtopic.php?f=9=3668

Of course, work is just beginning on the sequence of impacts for South America 
and their
related meltwater pulses.

It is really strange to watch the psychological process of denial going on here.
I wish I had just a small part of the money spent on this denial for more 
research into what actually occurred.

Or better yet, have your personal salary dependent on actual impact research.
That would certainly focus your own fine skills.

BTW, you can not use impact data from the Moon in a straight line to estimate 
the
impact hazard for the Earth.

The Earth usually protects the Moon from impactors.

E.P.
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Re: [meteorite-list] Pot Coloring The Kettle Black

2016-06-19 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Captain Blood wrote:

"Hi all, Teaching Anthropology, which includes linguistics, I began over
30 years ago to collect the origins of phrases.
The original phrase in this instance is
"Pot calling the kettle black."

=
You are a cunning anthropologist Michael, but I disagree. The context is not at 
all my affair, so I only comment on the use of Adam's original aphorism or 
proverb he intended. Though there are even older proverbs capturing his 
thought, I think he might have preferred to use the Sufi proverb from the 
middle ages, hundreds of years before the pot/kettle abomination existed:

"Many of the faults you see in others, dear reader,
are your own nature reflected in them." (Rumi ca. AD 1250)

The pot and kettle saying is so butchered from its origin and barely resembles 
it, and yours is not the original. It is fair game to use as he did, since 
there is no authority on such idioms and the interpretation is supported, 
whether it sounds good to everyone's ear or only to some. I have traced the 
origin of the pot/kettle proverb undisputedly to the ancient Greek, "Snake and 
the Crab" and it intended hypocrisy, whereas the reflection/coloring suggests 
that the accused reserves the right to be pure and without fault, a different 
concept. Pot calling the kettle black is a late-comer, and already a poor 
corruption of a 3000 year old proverb that diminishes the original, so that is 
why I feel the writer can appropriate it as they feel convenient and not be 
beholden to any higher authority on its use due to the selection of an 
arbitrary point in time, and Adam has referenced his with a less common modern 
variant. English is always evolving, and this is a living example of how it happ
 ens.

Kindest wishes
Doug

-Original Message-
From: Michael Blood via Meteorite-list 
To: Paul Gessler ; Met. Adam Hupe 
; Meteorite List 

Sent: Sat, Jun 18, 2016 7:56 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pot Coloring The Kettle Black

Hi all,
Teaching Anthropology, which includes linguistics, I began over
30 years ago to collect the origins of phrases.
The original phrase in this instance is
"Pot calling the kettle black."
Michael Blood


On 6/16/16 8:11 PM, "Meteorite List" 
wrote:

> Pot Coloring The Kettle Black


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[meteorite-list] Service for Moon-Lovers

2016-06-17 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
"There are strange things done in the midnight sun by the men who moil for gold;
The Arctic trails have their secret tales that would make your blood run cold;"

"To know the Moon as few men may, one must be just a little fey".

The author was an adventurer who arrived in the Alaskan gold rush and worked in 
a bank there, so he had some stories to tell.  I recommend reading some of 
these to see if you like them, if your wings are ever clipped.  Hope the 
formatting goes through well as this should appear a wall of text.  I've given 
a link at the bottom in case that happens.

...As quiet as a toad I sit
And tell my tale of days to it;
The tessellated yarn I've spun
In thirty spells of star and sun.

And the Moon listens pensively,
As placid as a lamb to me;
Until I think there's just us two
In silver world of mist and dew.

In all of spangled space, but I
To share moon-struck in the sky;
Of billion beings I alone
To praise the Moon as still as stone.

And seal a bond between us two,
Closer than mortal ever knew;
For as mute masses I intone
The Moon is mine and mine alone.

...Until one night the Moon alone
Will look upon a graven stone. . . .
I wonder will it miss me then,
Its lover more than other men?

Or will my wistful ghost be there,
Down ages dim to stare and stare,
On silver nights without a stir--
The Moon's Eternal Worshipper?

(R.W. Service, Bar-Room Ballads, 1940)
complete verse available at:
http://www.robertwservice.com/modules/smartsection/item.php?itemid=334

Kindest wishes,
Doug
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Re: [meteorite-list] $20,000 for the Maine meteorite fall.

2016-05-23 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
"I guess there is a reward for a piece of the meteorite fall in Maine.
$20,000. I wonder if that's for the main mass, or a piece of the Lunar
meteorite?"

Shawn, the funny article you linked to says: 

"Researchers within the lab, in the bowels of the museum, are really hoping for 
the chance"

This musty place has a bunch of curious cats, theoretical scribblings and 
litter boxes ... 




-Original Message-
From: Shawn Alan via Meteorite-list 
To: Meteorite Central 
Sent: Mon, May 23, 2016 7:14 am
Subject: [meteorite-list] $20,000 for the Maine meteorite fall.

Hello Listers

I guess there is a reward for a piece of the meteorite fall in Maine.
$20,000. I wonder if that's for the main mass, or a piece of the Lunar
meteorite?

Link:
http://www.khou.com/news/weird/museum-offers-reward-and-tips-to-find-meteorite/202576172

Shawn Alan
IMCA 1633 
ebay store http://www.ebay.com/sch/imca1633ny/m.html
Website http://meteoritefalls.com 

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[meteorite-list] Butsura

2016-05-12 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Happy Birthday!
On this day in history:
Fall, May 12, 1861
Butsura H6

Professor Maskelyne's meteoritic poetry (1863):

AEROLITICS

The branch of science that treats meteorites has acquired sufficient importance 
to justify our giving it a special name, and I therefore propose for its 
denomination with which this article is headed.  Many reasons conspire to 
render this study of "Aerolitics" one of increasing interest, and to make it 
highly desirable that collections of meteorites should exist to illustrate it, 
as complete as possible, not only in the numbers of the different falls they 
represent, but also as regards the modes in which the specimens are prepared 
for exhibition.  These remarkable bodies will always command a general 
interest, from the fact that in them we see matter foreign in its origin and 
history to our own world, and handle, in them, the only tangible substances 
that belong to the space beyond our atmosphere. ...

Best wishes,
Doug
PS  I'd like a Butsura specimen, please so don't be shy if you have one.  This 
Indian meteorite was reported to have had 5 pieces fall at distances of up to 
several miles apart, yet all fit together with essentially minimal to no crust  
on the interlocking surfaces.


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Re: [meteorite-list] Invented words

2016-05-11 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
"I propose we start simplifying "regmaglypts" to "remagyps" until it catches 
on."


Ha!  When was this "regmaglypt" misnomer invented, anyway, and by whom?  My 
theory: It was a translation mistake from Krinov's Russian, by the translator 
of his work, happening around 10 years after Sikhote-Alin.  Really doubt this 
word entered the meteorite glossary in any way not accidental.

I prefer eggyglyphs.  Anyone can relate to it, meaning, eggy-groves, making 
eggyglyphs the more scientifically descriptive word :-)  

Regmaglypted means something like "sculpted by fractures".  Definitely should 
be glyph instead of glypt IMO.  I suppose thumbprinted is just as crazy, 
reminds me of a criminal investigation. Thumbdinted would be far more 
scientifically accurate and sounds close enough not to rock the boat, while 
we're ablating our language! 

Best wishes
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Bigjohn Shea via Meteorite-list 
To: Bob King via Meteorite-list ; 
meteorite-list 
Sent: Tue, May 10, 2016 1:23 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Invented words

Starting to wander off topic...

Unless we want to continue inventing more words that are related to 
meteoritics?  

I propose we start simplifying "regmaglypts" to "remagyps" until it catches on.

Also I propose that "Widmanstatten" now be shortened to "Widstatten" until it 
appears in a publication.

All those in favor say "yay", not "aye".   ;-)




Sent using the mail.com mail app

On 5/10/16 at 11:58 AM, Bob King via Meteorite-list wrote:

> In my mind, it all began with "prioritize". Now a very common word but
> I still choose not to use it.
> Bob
> 
> On Tue, May 10, 2016 at 11:55 AM, Anne Black via Meteorite-list
>  wrote:
> > I am with you Rob!
> > To me "cool" is still a temperature, somewhere between tepid and cold. 
> > Nothing else.
> >
> >
> > Anne M. Black
> > www.IMPACTIKA.com
> > impact...@aol.com
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Rob Matson via Meteorite-list 
> > To: 'Sterling K. Webb' ; pmodreski 
> > ; 'meteorite-list' 
> > Sent: Tue, May 10, 2016 1:16 am
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Invented words
> >
> > Ugh. It joins the ranks of "irregardless". Now that social media is a 
> > permanent
> > fixture,
> > it probably only takes a handful of modestly well-connected people to 
> > bastardize
> > an
> > existing word into a needless new synonym... I'm becoming a grumpier old man
> > with
> > each passing year, I guess!  --R
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Meteorite-list [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On
> > Behalf Of Sterling K. Webb via Meteorite-list
> > Sent: Monday, May 09, 2016 10:33 PM
> > To: 'Matson, Rob D.'; pmodre...@aol.com
> > Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Oriented vs Orientated
> >
> > Rob,
> >
> > You bet "desalinization" would
> > become one [a word], but the
> > world has beaten you to it:
> >
> > desalinization. (n.d.). The
> > American HeritageR New
> > Dictionary of Cultural Literacy,
> > Third Edition. Retrieved May 09,
> > 2016 from Dictionary.com: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/desalinization
> >
> > It's probably too late to stamp
> > it out...
> >
> > Sterling
> > -
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Meteorite-list [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On
> > Behalf Of Matson, Rob D. via Meteorite-list
> > Sent: Monday, May 09, 2016 8:35 PM
> > To: pmodre...@aol.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Oriented vs Orientated
> >
> > A related faux pas: desalinization. No such word, but I bet it will become
> > one so as not to embarrass the media members who like to use it. ;-). --Rob
> > 
> > From: Meteorite-list [meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] on behalf
> > of Pete Modreski via Meteorite-list [meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com]
> > Sent: Monday, May 09, 2016 10:46 AM
> > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Oriented vs Orientated
> >
> > My other favorite word that gets used by non-geologists: metamorphosized .
> > (Do you Brits use that one, by chance?)  I think it fits the rhythym better
> > in some songs and poems.
> >
> > Cheers, Pete
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: howardites via Meteorite-list 
> > To: meteorite-list 
> > Sent: Mon, May 9, 2016 11:16 am
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Oriented vs Orientated
> >
> > It certainly got everyone thinking ;-)
> >
> >
> > If you would like? for the sake of keeping the peace and despite the fact us
> > Brits widely use 

Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites - Oriented vs. Orientated: What’s the Difference?

2016-05-05 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
"I only see where the use is as a verb. In this meteoritic context it is an 
adjective. While 'orientated' may be correct, the historic and accepted use has 
always been 'oriented'.Orientated sounds wrong and doesn't flow off my tongue 
easily.Bob"

Bob, There is no required use.  It is a matter of personal preference, and 
oriented is simply far more common than orientated.  If someone has an 
orientated stone you like, believe me on this one, oriented by any other name 
is as sweet.

For example, 
Here's an early Martian, classified at NAU,  NWA 2800 
www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=33288
"orientated elongated crystals"

A historian and scientist describe the historical, first witnessed fall in the 
New World, Weston:
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=24249
"strewnfield orientated"

the Mount Margaret (Australia) meteorite, amazing, stunning meteorite
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=16781
"single, flight orientated stone"

The original post was false dichotomy.  Some people get annoyed over the 
silliest things.  And some respond to them with equally silly things when 
convalescing in bed ;-)  Please take a listen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2oEmPP5dTM#t=0m33s
(It's the original "to-may-to, to-mah-to" song)

Best wishes,
Doug
  

-Original Message-
From: drtanuki via Meteorite-list <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
To: Bob Holmes <bobhol...@cox.net>; Meteorite-list 
<meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thu, May 5, 2016 6:52 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites - Oriented vs. Orientated: What’s the 
Difference?

List,  Sorry the message was not sent in plain text and the link to the - ADJ. 
form was dropped.  Doug, I concur with you diatribe. Brit. English and American 
usage differ and both forms are correct.  I prefer oriented as it as Bob says 
and I think Farmer would agree just sounds less awkward. Missing 
Link-http://grammarist.com/usage/orientate/Dirk Ross...Tokyo The Latest 
Worldwide Meteor/Meteorite News 
http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/____From: 
Bob Holmes <bobhol...@cox.net>To: MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list 
<meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> Cc: "drtan...@yahoo.com" 
<drtan...@yahoo.com>Sent: Friday, May 6, 2016 6:25 AMSubject: Re: 
[meteorite-list] Meteorites - Oriented vs. Orientated: What’s the Difference?I 
only see where the use is as a verb. In this meteoritic context it is an 
adjective. While 'orientated' may be correct, the historic and accepted use has 
always been 'oriented'.Orientated sounds wrong and doesn't flow off my tongue 
easily.Bob-- Original message--From: MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list 
Date: Thu, May 5, 2016 11:42 AMTo: 
drtan...@yahoo.com;meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com;Cc: Subject:Re: 
[meteorite-list] Meteorites - Oriented vs. Orientated: What’s the 
Difference?"oriented-vs-orientated-differencePerhaps oriented?! or not?"Dirk, 
perhaps so, if "three men make a tiger".There are serious logical flaws lacing 
the arguments and opinions presented in your link.  There's an argument/appeal 
to a non-existent authority - the author is nobody remarkable.  The worst is an 
appeal to numbers ("It's usage is more common so it is right"). Many words are 
less common, yet thankfully exist and can be used even though shorter ones are 
workable substitutes.  Here's another grammar-assisting website:"But, once 
again, orientate is an accepted variant of orient and is not wrong."ref: 
http://grammarist.com/usage/orientate/Nowjust for fun, let's use an appeal to 
numbers to decide which site is more reliable.grammarist (my site.  look at the 
trend and my fancy graph):http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/grammarist.com+andthen 
writingexplained.org(your site.  fancy graph and numbers 
again)http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/writingexplained.org+SoI would conclude 
with fancy graphs and statistics (two above links) that because the link your 
site just popped out of nowhere in March 2016 and is in 73,500th place 
worldwide at this writing, and the site I linked to is in 9,300th place 
worldwide, and around for years and continually getting more popular in the 
rankings --for now perhaps 10x more consulted-- that we should avoid using your 
site as a reference.  "three men make a tiger"?Both words are grammatically 
correct in my book and it comes down to style which is strictly a personal 
decision of whoever is writing. IMO, Everyone understands them ...  There is no 
shame in word choice, and most people won't mind the extra t and a here and 
there.Kindest wishesDoug-Original Message-From: drtanuki via 
Meteorite-list To: Meteorite Mailing List Sent: Thu, May 5, 2016 9:48 
amSubject: [meteorite-list] Meteorites - Oriented vs. Orientated: What’s the 
Difference?List, Here you 
go-http://writingexplained.o

Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites - Oriented vs. Orientated: What’s the Difference?

2016-05-05 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
"oriented-vs-orientated-difference
Perhaps oriented?! or not?"

Dirk, perhaps so, if "three men make a tiger".

There are serious logical flaws lacing the arguments and opinions presented in 
your link.  There's an argument/appeal to a non-existent authority - the author 
is nobody remarkable.  The worst is an appeal to numbers ("It's usage is more 
common so it is right"). Many words are less common, yet thankfully exist and 
can be used even though shorter ones are workable substitutes.  

Here's another grammar-assisting website:

"But, once again, orientate is an accepted variant of orient and is not wrong."
ref: http://grammarist.com/usage/orientate/

Now just for fun, let's use an appeal to numbers to decide which site is more 
reliable.

grammarist (my site.  look at the trend and my fancy graph):
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/grammarist.com+

and then writingexplained.org (your site.  fancy graph and numbers again)
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/writingexplained.org+

So I would conclude with fancy graphs and statistics (two above links) that 
because the link your site just popped out of nowhere in March 2016 and is in 
73,500th place worldwide at this writing, and the site I linked to is in 
9,300th place worldwide, and around for years and continually getting more 
popular in the rankings --for now perhaps 10x more consulted-- that we should 
avoid using your site as a reference.  "three men make a tiger"?

Both words are grammatically correct in my book and it comes down to style 
which is strictly a personal decision of whoever is writing.  IMO, Everyone 
understands them ...  There is no shame in word choice, and most people won't 
mind the extra t and a here and there.

Kindest wishes
Doug







-Original Message-
From: drtanuki via Meteorite-list 
To: Meteorite Mailing List 
Sent: Thu, May 5, 2016 9:48 am
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorites - Oriented vs. Orientated: What’s the 
Difference?



List, Here you go-
http://writingexplained.org/oriented-vs-orientated-difference


 Perhaps oriented?! or not?


as an adjective-




Dirk Ross...Tokyo The Latest Worldwide Meteor/Meteorite News 
http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/

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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day

2016-04-30 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
" Oatmeal cream pies and strawberry treat cakes"

Hi Sonny and all,

Yep, Little Debbie branded treats were a life preserver, even if less sugar and 
fiber and more protein will be in the pack for next time!  I really appreciate 
your comments Sonny and bet you could relate to what was running through my 
head there, probably more than me :-)

As I found mine, I learned you were in Texas at the latest strewnfield, rolling 
the dice and busting your butt.  I still expected you to show up with a 
volunteer fire brigade to show up any minute!

Best luck,
Doug




-Original Message-
From: wahlperry--- via Meteorite-list 
To: valparint ; meteorite-list 

Sent: Sat, Apr 30, 2016 10:26 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day

Hi Doug and list,

Wow what a great meteorite hunting adventure. Thank god you had the survival 
pack of Oatmeal cream pies and strawberry treat cakes to help make it through 
the night!

Sonny


-Original Message-
From: Paul Swartz via Meteorite-list 
To: meteorite-list 
Sent: Sat, Apr 30, 2016 12:00 am
Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day

Today's Meteorite Picture of the Day: Osceola

Contributed by: Mexico Doug

http://www.tucsonmeteorites.com/mpodmain.asp?DD=04/30/2016
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Re: [meteorite-list] Mexico Doug Okay? (Alligator Tips for Meteorite Hunters)

2016-04-30 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Hi Mike, Ed and all,  Thanks for the nice notes I received from a bunch of you 
who wrote me about my accident and wishing me well.  Just to say after 7 weeks, 
I was able to stand up a few days ago.  Today I began walking in a gradual 
rehabilitation so things are now looking up.  I expect a complete recovery now, 
hopefully sooner than the 13 week estimate.

Also I wrote up the Osceola #7 finally as I promised I would.  It'll be on MPOD 
today with some of what happened to me while hunting in the swamp and wet 
pinelands till I got hurt.  The hunt meant a lot, but being alone and isolated, 
a lot of crazy things happened there as you can read about.

I wanted to thank Paul so much for hosting my story, and all the work he puts 
into his MPOD site in general which was something to look forward  to while 
trying to get better.  

Ed wrote:
"Certainly the real life adventures of you meteorite hunters should interest 
viewers."

Hope you enjoy the story, Ed, and that people enjoy reading too ;-)

Kindest wishes
Doug

-Original Message-
From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritem...@gmail.com>
To: MexicoDoug <mexicod...@aol.com>
Cc: epgrondine <epgrond...@yahoo.com>; meteorite-list 
<meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thu, Apr 21, 2016 2:00 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Mexico Doug Okay? (Alligator Tips for Meteorite 
Hunters)

Hi Doug and List,

There are large reptiles of the maneater variety within the confines
of Osceola National Forest, and specifically the Big Gum Swamp. The
further in you go off the beaten path, the wilder it gets.

For anyone considering searching this swamp for meteorites, refer to
this handy list of tips regarding alligators. I posted this in a
fossil forum, but it applies to anywhere in Florida :

---

Some words of general advice about alligators from a long-time Florida
resident and outdoors enthusiast. Some of this is common sense and
some of it is based on experience.

Alligators are the subject of much needless fear, and I want to try to
alleviate the fears of my fellow fossil (meteorite!) hunters.

First, unprovoked attacks are extremely rare. Consider how many
alligators there are in Florida, and then consider how many people
hunt, fish, hike, swim, and engage in watersports in Florida. Your
chances of having an alligator select you at random for an attack are
very very remote.

Most alligator attacks on humans involve some form of provocation or
proximity to prey behavior. If you see an alligator, just move away
from it and do not taunt or harass it. There is no need to slap your
paddle on the water, shout at it, or throw things at it. If you are in
a boat, just keep moving along. If you are wading in the water or
swimming, get out of the water without panicking.

Do not exhibit prey behavior - that means no splashing around. Having
splash fights is for kids in swimming pools, not adults in a river.
Alligators are attracted to prey behavior such as splashing and they
may investigate the source of the noise.

Do not bring your dog into the river. It's just a bad idea. Dogs like
to splash around and are generally clueless about gators. Leave the
dog at home or at the campground.

Do not allow your kids to frolick and splash in the river - it is
viewed as prey behavior.

Do not throw food, fish scrap, or bait into the water. This one is
common sense, but bears repeating.

Baby alligators are cute and more colorful than the adults. Resist the
urge to approach them or linger in their vicinity. Mama gators are
notoriously protective and take a dim view of humans near their
babies. If you see baby alligators, avoid them. Snap a quick photo if
you must, but don't hang around. And certainly don't go into the water
anywhere near them, because mama is certainly nearby. This is the only
exception to the "unprovoked attack" rules - any human presence near
the nest or babies is considered a provocation by mama. Just keep
moving along. If the babies become alarmed, they will start making
noises and mama will come quickly. If the babies start fussing - get
out of there.

Stay out of "gatory" areas - fallen trees in the river might snag and
collect fossils, but they are also choice areas for alligator nests.
Search the rootball on the banks, but stay out of the submerged area
of the tree top. This is probably an overabundance of caution, but why
tempt fate by hanging around areas that are attractive to gators?

Areas of the river that are busy with activity are generally free of
alligators. Lots of boat activity and noise will deter gators. They
generally avoid these areas. Your chances of being attacked near the
main boat ramp of a busy park is almost zero.

Alligators are most active at night - stay out of the river at night.
A midnight skinny dip might seem romantic, but you may end up in a
less-than-romantic situation.

If you are absolutely terrified of alligato

Re: [meteorite-list] WR Gallery Delay – U.S. World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery

2016-04-25 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
'Bikkurim L'HaShem Adonai Yeshua HaMashiach' (644.7g pile)

Baʿal Zebub would be an easier nickname for that mass.  Do you mean fusion 
crust or Krylon Fusion (R) paint?







-Original Message-
From: Ann Cain via Meteorite-list 
To: meteorite-list 
Sent: Sat, Apr 23, 2016 6:46 pm
Subject: [meteorite-list] WR Gallery Delay – U.S. World Record Mars Meteorite 
Discovery

Meteorite List,

I would like to apologize for not having The Gallery of World Record Mars 
Meteorites, from the US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery, ready and up for 
viewing for this Passover 4-23-16, as I said I would. Things have been very 
busy this school year. However, this summer I will finish. I now intend to have 
it ready on Rosh Hashanah 5777 AD/CE, (October 3-4, 2016), and I’m hoping a 3rd 
PR can be released at that time in addition. 


Rosh Hashanah 5777 AD/CE should be a good year of blessings, and I’m looking 
forward to a new U.S. administration.



Shalom,


Glyn Howard





The Gallery of US World Record Mars Meteorite specimens:
http://gfoundit-mars.com/GalleryOfImages.html


The Evidence for GSA and GSB Mars Meteorites and Relevant Essays and Articles
http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidence.html


The Evidence - G Found It - US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery
http://www.einpresswire.com/article/225047567/the-evidence-g-found-it-us-world-record-mars-meteorite-discovery


G Found It - U.S. World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery
http://www.gfoundit-mars.com/


G Found It – U.S. World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery
http://www.einpresswire.com/article/143477981/g-found-it-u-s-world-record-mars-meteorite-discovery





Recall: Both my sister Ann Cain (who opened the email account) and I, Glyn 
Howard, use the same email account …
Ann Cain, Glyn Howard
gfndit(at)hotmail.com



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Re: [meteorite-list] Mexico Doug Okay?

2016-04-21 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Thanks Ed for asking. I've been disabled for the last 5 weeks from an accident. 
 I hope I'll be able to stand again soon.  Walking might be a bit longer, and I 
hope for a complete recovery.

It wasn't caused by wrestling a 5 meter long gator attempting to rip a 
meteorite out of his jaws.  He wasn't out prowling for gastroliths and I don't 
believe he had a cache of a new class of meteorites in his gizzards.  I didn't 
have to outrun him at 80 kph across swamps, pinelands and through the 
palmettos.  He never sunk his teeth into my juicy leg. I didn't even, have to 
use my GPS unit to prop open his jaws to withdraw my shredded leg.  There was 
not a full row of his teeth ever embedded in my femur.  Not particularly 
interesting TV material.

I'd enjoy writing a full length meteorite hunting fantasy sometime.  Hope there 
will be no further opportunities to do it :-)

Kindest wishes
Doug

-Original Message-
From: E.P. Grondine via Meteorite-list 
To: meteorite-list 
Sent: Wed, Apr 20, 2016 1:19 pm
Subject: [meteorite-list] Mexico Doug Okay?

Hi all - 

I am just getting to my mail. How is Doug doing? 
What the hell happened?

Since "Meteorite Men" feel to $#!t, (geoff, Brenheim steve?)
I have thought that a new meteorite show is needed.
Certainly the real life adventures of you meteorite hunters should interest 
viewers.

goo hunting, all,
Ed

BTW, as some very cheap used copies of "Man and Impact in the Americas" have 
been showing up on amazon,
some of you may wish to invest in them now.
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Re: [meteorite-list] First look inside new meteorite from Crosbyton, TX fireball

2016-04-19 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Hi Sonny,
Can't really be sure from the pictures but it almost looks like chondrules in a 
breccia ...  Good luck on the classification and congratulations on the nice 
result of a fantastic effort to you and Terry!

Kindest wishes
Doug


-Original Message-
From: wahlperry--- via Meteorite-list 
To: meteorite-list 
Sent: Mon, Apr 18, 2016 10:52 am
Subject: [meteorite-list] First look inside new meteorite from Crosbyton, TX 
fireball

Hi List,

We just received this meteorite back from TCU. Here it is, a look inside this 
beautiful freshly fallen meteorite that Terry Scott and I recovered near 
Crosbyton, TX after the Feb. 18, 2016 fireball. The meteorite is pristine with 
a beautiful light grey matrix loaded with chondrules and metal flakes. Official 
name and classification still pending. The images are also on my Facebook page 
where they appear a little clearer.

http://www.nevadameteorites.com/nevadameteorites/Crosbyton_Texas_Fireball_2016.html


Sonny
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[meteorite-list] Osceola No. 7

2016-04-15 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Thanks so much Rob and Sonny, your comments especially made my week.

I just wanted to gratefully acknowledge Rob for his shared enthusiasm and 
scientific contribution on the Osceola fall.  I'd really like to congratulate 
Laura, Mike, Larry, Josh & Brendan.  I consider myself extremely fortunate to 
join the roster of the finds.  Everyone put in a lot of effort in less than 
ideal circumstances.  A few have wondered about the find Rob noted, so if Paul 
lets me, I'll submit to MPOD a "hello world" picture of it shortly.  

Cheers
Doug

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Re: [meteorite-list] "Meteor Stone" for sale in Lebanon call xxxxxxxxxxx

2016-04-04 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
In that "for sale" format, the "FREE" only means the seller didn't enter an 
amount into the "price" field.

As Brian mentioned ... not a meteorite, not  meteor.  Maybe not a stone either.

Best wishes
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Brian Cox via Meteorite-list 
To: meteorite-list 
Sent: Mon, Apr 4, 2016 9:58 am
Subject: [meteorite-list] "Meteor Stone" for sale in Lebanon call 


You might want to check out this piece of rock or most likely slag, or melted 
metal on Facebook, on the page; " Crystal/Mineral Specimens-Buy/Trade/Sell/Show 
and Tell! "
 Posted by Chady Hanna, for sale, it says FREE under the words Meteor Stone. 
It's Unlike any meteorite I have ever seen. I don't know anything about this 
guy, perhaps he needs some information and help on what is and isn't a meteor 
or meteorite. 


https://www.facebook.com/groups/363910383711929/?multi_permalinks=695196957249935_t=commerce_interesting_product_id=1459748091712662




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[meteorite-list] Osceola

2016-04-03 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Thanks Rob!  Does being there 4 days before the fall figure in anywhere? :-)

Though Larry may not have been first on the field, nor found the first, or for 
all I know, the last one ... his dedication and larger specimen is a fresh 
virgin princess IMO!  I really hope the temptation to expose the fresh interior 
never arises.

It would be very instructive to know the weight of the current main mass as 
found and then as well dried, as I can easily see 100 or more grams of water 
taken up by it, a real consideration for reporting the weights of most of these 
stones.

Kindest wishes
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Rob Matson via Meteorite-list 
To: 'meteorite-list' 
Sent: Sat, Apr 2, 2016 4:02 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Osceola Meteorite is Official!

Congratulations to Mike, Larry, Laura, Josh and Brendan for their 
aggressiveness ingetting to the fall location quickly and their persistence in 
the face of veryunfavorable searching conditions (SWAMP!)  It is an impressive 
feat that anythingwas found at all, even with the nice radar returns.I have one 
correction: I'm pretty sure Larry was the second on the scene. SteveArnold 
drove all night from Arkansas to arrive (I believe) the morning afterthe fall 
-- Monday, January 25.  --Rob-Original Message-From: Meteorite-list 
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Michael 
Gilmer via Meteorite-listSent: Saturday, April 02, 2016 11:00 AMTo: Meteorite 
ListSubject: [meteorite-list] Osceola Meteorite is Official!Osceola meteorite 
is official, approved by NonCom and entered into theMet Bull today - 
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=63109Osceola30�27.16�N, 
82�27.25�WFlorida, USAConfirmed fall: 2016 Jan 24Classification: Ordinary 
chondrite (L6)History: (Mike Hankey, Larry Atkins, Laura Atkins, Josh 
Adkins,Brendan Fallon, Robert Matson, Marc Fries) On Sunday Morning 24January 
at 10:27 EST (15:27 UTC) a large daytime fireball streakedacross the sky in 
northern Florida. Over 100 eyewitnesses reported theevent to the American 
Meteor Society (Event 2016-266), describing awhite sparkling head and plume of 
white smoke left behind. Fireballresearchers Marc Fries and Rob Matson, found 
the American MeteorSociety witness trajectory intersected with a group of radar 
returnsthat appeared shortly after the fall. The radar returns were 
strong,found at multiple altitudes and located on multiple stations: KJAX,KVAX 
and KTHL. Larry Atkins was the first on the scene. Mike Hankeyarrived 5 days 
after the fall with Brendan Fallon and joined Larry andLaura Atkins in the 
hunt. On the 6th day, Mike Hankey found the firststone at 8.5 g on the eastern 
edge of the primary radar return. Within2 hours Larry Atkins found the second 
stone (18.5 g) directly underthe radar. The next day, two more stones were 
found: a 5.5 g stone byLaura Atkins and a 48.5 g stone by Mike Hankey. Six days 
later over 2miles away from the first find, an 839 g mass was found by Josh 
Adkinsand Brendan Fallon. A week after that, Larry Atkins found the laststone, 
weighing 75.5 g. In total 6 stones were found over a three weekhunting period 
for a total weight of 990.5 g.Physical characteristics: Thin, well formed shiny 
fusion crust coversthe exterior of four of the stones, while two of them, the 
43 g andthe 839 g are matte black. This is likely due to submersion in wetsand 
and/or water prior to recovery. Some small rust spots are evidenton some of the 
stones as well. Small regmaglypts are present on the 43g and the 839 g stones, 
and the remaining stones are irregularlyshaped with little to no orientation. 
Some chondrules are visiblethrough the crust. The interior of the meteorites 
are slightlydarkened due to shock. Shock veins are present, some of which 
areblack while others are filled with metal, appearing as long "strings"up to 3 
mm long. Though most of the chondrules have been altered andare not well 
defined, some rare, large chondrules up to 0.8 mm arepresent.Petrography: 
Plagioclase grains are up to 100 �m in size, consistentwith type 6. No 
maskelynite was found. There are numerouschromite-plagioclase assemblages, 
consistent with moderately strongshock. Chromite grains are fractured. Troilite 
is polycrystalline.Metallic copper occurs as 2-�m-thick bands at the 
metal-troiliteinterface in an opaque assemblage. The chondrules are 
recrystallizedand poorly defined. The only discernible chondrules are large 
ones,800-1000 �m across; these are BO and PO textural types.Geochemistry: 
Olivine Fa23.7�0.3 (n=21), OrthopyroxeneFs20.2�0.2Wo1.6�0.2 (n=14). Also 
present are small grains of diopside:Fs7.4 Wo44.9 (n=1). Plagioclase has a mean 
composition of Ab71.7�1.6Or8.8�2.5 (n=8); the low Na and high K values are a 
result of shock.Specimens: 21.8 g at 
UCLA__Visit our Facebook page 

[meteorite-list] Caught For The First Time: The Early Flash Of An Exploding Star

2016-03-23 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Haven't seen this covered by Ron.  Maybe not like I expected but in our 
lifetimes!  Look what K2/Kepler is reporting!  They caught the moment -actually 
about 20 minutes- that a star goes supernova, *visibly*, twice.  Wow, 
meticulous persistence pays.  Tycho Brahe would be so impressed...  They go on 
to say expanding brightness reaches a maximum after 14 days, as all the 
elements (like iron and nickel) are manufactured and released that make life 
and geology (and nice pre-stellar nebulae) interesting:

abstract:
http://arxiv.org/abs/1603.05657

preprint pdf:
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1603.05657v1.pdf

NASA PR Summary:
http://www.nasa.gov/feature/ames/Kepler/caught-for-the-first-time-the-early-flash-of-an-exploding-star

Caught For The First Time: The Early Flash Of An Exploding Star

The brilliant flash of an exploding star’s shockwave—what astronomers call the 
“shock breakout”—has been captured for the first time in the optical wavelength 
or visible light by NASA's planet-hunter, the Kepler space telescope.

An international science team led by Peter Garnavich, an astrophysics professor 
at the University of Notre Dame in Indiana, analyzed light captured by Kepler 
every 30 minutes over a three-year period from 500 distant galaxies, searching 
some 50 trillion stars. They were hunting for signs of massive stellar death 
explosions known as supernovae.
The brightness of a Type II supernova shock breakout
The diagram illustrates the brightness of a supernova event relative to the sun 
as it unfolds. For the first time, a supernova shockwave has been observed in 
the optical wavelength or visible light as it reaches the surface of the star. 
This early flash of light is called a shock breakout. The explosive death of 
this star, called KSN 2011d, as it reaches its maximum brightness takes 14 
days. The shock breakout itself lasts only about 20 minutes, so catching the 
flash of energy is an investigative milestone for astronomers. The unceasing 
gaze of NASA's Kepler space telescope allowed astronomers to see, at last, this 
early moment as the star blows itself to bits. Supernovae like these — known as 
Type II — begin when the internal furnace of a star runs out of nuclear fuel 
causing its core to collapse as gravity takes over. This type of star is called 
a red supergiant star and it is 20,000 times brighter than our sun. As the 
supergiant star goes supernova, the energy traveling from the core reaches the 
surfaces with a burst of light that is 130,000,000 times brighter than the sun. 
The star continues to explode and grow reaching maximum brightness that is 
about 1,000,000,000 times brighter than the sun.
Credits: NASA Ames/W. Stenzel

In 2011, two of these massive stars, called red supergiants, exploded while in 
Kepler’s view. The first behemoth, KSN 2011a, is nearly 300 times the size of 
our sun and a mere 700 million light years from Earth. The second, KSN 2011d, 
is roughly 500 times the size of our sun and around 1.2 billion light years 
away.

“To put their size into perspective, Earth's orbit about our sun would fit 
comfortably within these colossal stars,” said Garnavich.

Whether it’s a plane crash, car wreck or supernova, capturing images of sudden, 
catastrophic events is extremely difficult but tremendously helpful in 
understanding root cause. Just as widespread deployment of mobile cameras has 
made forensic videos more common, the steady gaze of Kepler allowed astronomers 
to see, at last, a supernova shockwave as it reached the surface of a star. The 
shock breakout itself lasts only about 20 minutes, so catching the flash of 
energy is an investigative milestone for astronomers.

“In order to see something that happens on timescales of minutes, like a shock 
breakout, you want to have a camera continuously monitoring the sky,” said 
Garnavich. “You don’t know when a supernova is going to go off, and Kepler's 
vigilance allowed us to be a witness as the explosion began.”

Supernovae like these — known as Type II — begin when the internal furnace of a 
star runs out of nuclear fuel causing its core to collapse as gravity takes 
over.

The two supernovae matched up well with mathematical models of Type II 
explosions reinforcing existing theories. But they also revealed what could 
turn out to be an unexpected variety in the individual details of these 
cataclysmic stellar events.

While both explosions delivered a similar energetic punch, no shock breakout 
was seen in the smaller of the supergiants. Scientists think that is likely due 
to the smaller star being surrounded by gas, perhaps enough to mask the 
shockwave when it reached the star's surface.

“That is the puzzle of these results,” said Garnavich. “You look at two 
supernovae and see two different things. That’s maximum diversity.”

Understanding the physics of these violent events allows scientists to better 
understand how the seeds of chemical complexity and life itself have been 
scattered in space and time in 

Re: [meteorite-list] Wandering Jupiter Could Have Swept Inner Solar System Clean

2016-03-22 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
"Raymond says that might explain the origin of iron meteorites, which some 
researchers argue should have formed relatively close to the sun."

 "We're not saying it happened. Just if it happened, what would it do?"


H, and radioactive decay providing the heat for differentiation of all 
those different parent bodied iron meteorites? 

Or, how to we explain the 4.40 billion year old earth zircons found on Earth's 
surface in Australia? 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldest_dated_rocks#Oldest_terrestrial_material

We've had better pie-in-the-sky theories made up by list members-- and worse 
one too ;-)  With computers and discretional grants you can have transistors 
flip-flopping zillions of time testing theories that have no evidence, and they 
let you not only fit, but also publish your narrative!  

Let's grab a computer to show that not only *could* this be possible, but 
expand it, 

What if ... proto-life evolved on Jupiter when Jupiter was in Earth's place.  
Jupiter had several small moons at the time.  There was a collision and Jupiter 
began to migrate once we tweaked this just right.  Then, one small moon stayed 
behind as a result of the impact.  Some of the meteorites that fell on the moon 
continued the path to life while Jupiter got too cold and arrested the 
development and kept growing from material it slowly collected according to the 
theory.   Now the computer shows this is possible, we better publish that life 
may have started on Jupiter ... when Jupiter was where Earth is today, and 
Earth was but its moon.

"I'm not saying it happened.  Just if it happened, what would it do?" ;-)

Kind wishes
Doug

(Noting the journal has an average of only a 21 day review period from 
submission to a decision...also that the first author began his academic life 
as a math major in a small college in Maine and runs a press/publicity section 
on his website covering plenty more things like this ...)


-Original Message-
From: Ron Baalke via Meteorite-list 
To: Meteorite Mailing List 
Sent: Tue, Mar 22, 2016 6:54 pm
Subject: [meteorite-list] Wandering Jupiter Could Have Swept Inner Solar System 
Clean


https://www.sciencenews.org/article/wandering-jupiter-could-have-swept-inner-solar-system-clean

Wandering Jupiter could have swept inner solar system clean

On its way out, infant planet left only enough debris for four small planets, 
simulation suggests

By Christopher Crockett
Science News
March 15, 2016

A wandering baby Jupiter could help explain why there are no planets closer 
to the sun than Mercury and why the innermost planet is so tiny, a new 
study suggests.

Jupiter's core might have formed close to the sun and then meandered 
through the rocky planet construction zone. As the infant Jupiter moved, 
it would have absorbed some planet-building material while kicking out 
the rest. This would have starved the inner planets - Mercury, Venus, 
Earth and Mars - of raw materials, keeping them small and preventing 
any other planets from forming close to the sun, say planetary scientist 
Sean Raymond and colleagues online March 5 in Monthly Notices of the Royal 
Astronomical Society.

"When I first came up with it, I thought it was ridiculous," says 
Raymond, of the Laboratory of Astrophysics of Bordeaux in Floirac, France. 
"This model is kind of crazy, but it holds up."

Rocky planets snuggled up to their suns are common in our galaxy. Many 
systems discovered by NASA's Kepler space telescope have multiple planets 
- several larger than Earth - crammed into orbits smaller than Mercury's. 
Though Kepler is biased toward finding scrunched-up solar systems, researchers 
wonder why there is a large gap between the sun and Mercury.

Scientists suspect that the inner planets of our solar system formed 4.6 
billion years ago from a belt of debris that stretched between the current 
orbits of Venus and Earth. Mercury and Mars were built out of material 
along the edges of this belt, which explains why they are relatively small. 
Jupiter, traditionally thought to have formed much farther out, gets the 
blame for creating the belt's outer edge. What shaped the inner edge 
has remained difficult to explain (SN Online: 3/23/15).

Raymond and colleagues ran computer simulations to see what would happen 
to the inner solar system if a body with three times the mass of Earth 
started inside Mercury's orbit and then migrated away from the sun. 
They found that if the interloper didn't move too fast or too slow, 
it would sweep clean the innermost parts of the disk of gas and dust that 
encircled the young sun and leave just enough material to form the rocky 
planets.

Raymond and colleagues also discovered that young Jupiter could have corralled 
enough debris to form a second core - one that got nudged away from 
the sun as Jupiter migrated.  This second core could be the seed from 
which 

Re: [meteorite-list] ?jupiter meteorite

2016-03-19 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Matija writes:

"Does anybody has heard of meteorite from Jupiter? Does it exists? Does
anybody suspects that maybe he is in possesion of it?"

These are three distinct questions Matija.

Many of us have heard about meteorites from Jupiter, people make claims all the 
time, sometimes allowing words to do thinking instead of using their minds.

Nobody has seen a meteorite that has been scientifically reviewed and shown to 
be from Jupiter.  But this comes with a disclaimer (see disclaimer).

People suspect they are in possession of strange things all the time.  I'm sure 
 some people suspect they have a meteorite from Jupiter.  Especially, now that 
we are talking about this hypothetical piece of science fiction you've imagined 
in your mind's eye.  People have imagined meteorites from Mars with odd legged 
arachnids in them if you choose to believe them.  But even scientists thought 
they might have meteorites from Mercury.  A brilliant list member her has 
speculated some Venus meteorites may exist.  None of these have been proven and 
support for their existence vary from very interesting theoretical reasoning, 
to entertainment for an idle but creative mind, to delusional behavior by 
individuals that have more than one loose screw.

First, you must ask yourself, How would anybody recognize a Jupiter meteorite?  
Then ask, can a "Jupiter meteorite" exist on Jupiter?  Then, do you mean one 
that arrives on Earth?  And then, how and a piece of Jupiter going to be 
snatched from its inner guts, go back into space, and be delivered to Earth.

What if I asked you, has anyone heard of aliens ever landing on the Sun?  Even 
if no one heard of it, have aliens landed on the Sun?  Or, do anyone posted to 
Facebook pictures they suspect are  of aliens landing on the Sun?

Disclaimer:  A comet smashed into Jupiter not long ago.  As Jupiter tore it 
apart with its tremendous gravitational force, fragments we could call 
meteoroids crashed through Jupiter's dense gaseous atmosphere  As the gravity 
was so fierce and the atmosphere denser and denser as the pieces ablated into 
disintegration, maybe something started floating in a thick chemical stew. That 
could be your meteorite, but no one has gone to recover it yet...

Final words.  Nature is strange and saying something is impossible really isn't 
the strong point of the scientific method.  If you manage to find a Jupiter 
meteorite on Earth, someone will be sure to ask, hey, "anyone found a meteorite 
from a black hole?"  LOL

jk, final words are, most of our meteorites are from Jupiter.  Jupiter keeps 
the asteroid belt in line and occasionally its gravity snatches it out of orbit 
and slingshots it on a trajectory that eventually ends up on earth in a sort of 
solar system pinball.  In that sense we have many likely Jupiter meteorites :-)

Cheers
Doug



-Original Message-
From: matija bericic via Meteorite-list 
To: meteorite-list 
Sent: Wed, Mar 16, 2016 2:00 pm
Subject: [meteorite-list] ?jupiter meteorite

Does anybody has heard of meteorite from Jupiter? Does it exists? Does
anybody suspects that maybe he is in possesion of it?
Thanks,
Matija
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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite reveals rare unstable element

2016-03-11 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Zelimir writes:

"I was mainly intrigued by the pink CAI but nobody could provide me some 
explanation. I don't claim the same phenomenon (presence of curium) is 
responsible of that color in my sample but now I can't help imagining that the 
curium hypothesis could possibly also explain the color of my CAI."

Zelimir,  Lucky specimen!  I had some mullings on this:

I would rule out that the presence of curium lent the pink color to your CAI.  
Right, the authors do not claim that curium is responsible for the pink color 
in their sample, or that there is presently any curium in the sample either.  I 
think  the amounts of curium are quite tiny to yield any color, they are 
dealing with.

Just a wild guess, but if your beautiful pink CAI happens to be like the one in 
the citation, the "CAI" likely has a matrix of Iron-rich spinel fine crystals 
which just happen to be tinged by Cr(III) in them according to 35 year old 
analyses on a pink CAI, or more descriptively, a MASHI, that was formed from/as 
an altered CAI possibly on an extremely old parent body that had volatiles, 
lots of salts and acid floating around.  Note the rich Cr2O3 assay of the 
interior here:
http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1981LPI12...25A

An image I have is a radioactive heated proto-planet with nasty lakes and your 
pink CAI stuck festering and staining pink in a dirty, salty, pool on it until 
the day something smashed the protoplanet to little bits and only after that 
prehistory did Allende condense.  (I bet if you licked the inclusion it would 
taste like salt).  Whether the pool contained water I wonder, too.  For a nice 
spinel colored by Cr(III) look up the Timur "Ruby"... or click on this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinel#/media/File:Spinel2.jpg 

It was not clear for me where the samples were coming from in this paper.  It's 
fairly clear they are all Allende specimens, and going by the footnotes and 
guessing about the sample numbers, it looks like Chicago had two coarse grained 
CAIs that were extracted for the paper, and the rest of the samples were from 
the Fields Museum donations, where the researchers destructively analyzed 
pieces of the CAIs they extracted, looking for fine grained ones perhaps were 
reminiscent of the old "Pink Angel" an inclusion that was close to the heart of 
Jerry Wasserburg. 

IMO They would have been better off naming it "Curious Jerry" for Wasserburg, 
who helped open the Pandora's Box of CAI's and was a principal discoverer that 
radioactive aluminum provided early energy for the activities of forming early 
protoplanets along with explanations where the pre-sources of solar nebula 
material were.  This find of evidence of curium, IMO, is an extension of that 
in some ways and probably vindicates some of the speculation and scientific 
battles Wasserburg and colleagues dealt with after the Allende fall when using 
Allende, moon rocks and meteorites in general to figure out what created our 
local neighborhood  As for all the silly names, given that this is a non-FUN 
CAI that might be a MASHI, the only thing that is clear to me is that this is 
all the work of Lunatics ;) Anyway, I don't think Marie Curie's favorite color 
was pink in that day.  I picture her more pale green and beautifully glowing!

Blue skies & pink CAIs
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Zelimir Gabelica via Meteorite-list 
To: mineral 
Cc: Meteoritelist 
Sent: Wed, Mar 9, 2016 11:45 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite reveals rare unstable element

Hello Derek, ListVery exciting reading !For info, I have acquired in 2013 a 
14.7 g Allende fragment that also shows a nice 9.5x5 mm CAI exhibiting a neatly 
distinct pink color (and also a curious reddish-brown color on some of its 
(black) crust areas).I was mainly intrigued by the pink CAI but nobody could 
provide me some explanation. I don't claim the same phenomenon (presence of 
curium) is responsible of that color in my sample but now I can't help 
imagining that the curium hypothesis could possibly also explain the color of 
my CAI. Probably worth some further analysis ?Regards to all,Zelimir- Mail 
original - De: "mineral via Meteorite-list" 
 À: "Meteoritelist" 
 Envoyé: Mercredi 9 Mars 2016 15:15:28 
Objet: [meteorite-list] Meteorite reveals rare unstable element 
http://earthsky.org/space/meteorite-reveals-rare-unstable-element Thanks, 
Derek. __ Visit our Facebook page 
https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at 
http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list 
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com 
https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- -- Zelimir 
GABELICA Professeur  Université de Haute-Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC 3, Rue Alfred 
Werner - F-68093 Mulhouse 

Re: [meteorite-list] 2nd recovered U.S. fall of 2016

2016-02-25 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Congratulations both to Rob and to the intrepid discoverer(s) of this event!  
Can't wait till the exciting story is further revealed.  I have a hunch for no 
particular reason that this meteorite and the circumstances of recovery will be 
extra-special (as all are)!  Cheers,
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Rob Matson via Meteorite-list 
To: 'meteorite-list' 
Sent: Thu, Feb 25, 2016 4:27 am
Subject: [meteorite-list] 2nd recovered U.S. fall of 2016

[Resending from a different account since the first attempt has not
shown up. Apologies if this turns out to be a repeat...]

Hi All,

Just want to report that the west Texas bolide that occurred one week
ago on the evening of 17 February 2016 is officially a fall: the second
successful radar-enabled recovery of 2016 (following Osceola, Florida)
as well as Texas' second Doppler-cued recovery (the first of course
being Ash Creek almost exactly seven years ago). Congratulations to
the persistent meteorite recovery team who walked the many miles to
make this another success story! --Rob


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Re: [meteorite-list] Very Very cool Meteor video

2016-02-22 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list

 "Hi Mark and List, yes I showed Monash Uni also and they said its a fake based 
on similar things

Cheers from OZ"

G'Day Ian,

Fifi Box would have had a field day with this media stupidity!  Is it too late 
to send it to the Whole Shebang breakfast show? ;)

Doug

 

 

-Original Message-
From: ian macleod via Meteorite-list 
To: Mark Hammergren ; meteorite-list 

Sent: Mon, Feb 22, 2016 2:47 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Very Very cool Meteor video

Hi Mark and List, yes I showed Monash Uni also and they said its a fake based 
on similar things

Cheers from OZ

Ian


From: Mark Hammergren 
Sent: Monday, 22 February 2016 5:29 PM
To: ian macleod
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Very Very cool Meteor video

I'm sorry, but this is a terrible fake. One big red flag: why would he
compose the shot pointing the camera to a boring, cloudy scene --
precisely where the "meteor" would come down? And another: the time
delay between the "meteor" and sonic boom is less than around five
seconds, corresponding to a distance of around a mile or so to the
fireball itself! Not realistic at all.

On Sun, Feb 21, 2016 at 11:35 PM, ian macleod via Meteorite-list
 wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Hi all checkout this awesome video, that isnt no satellite 
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.msn.com/en-au/video/downtime/extremely-close-meteor-strike-caught-on-film/vi-BBpJilu?ocid=mailsignout
>
>
> This man was out testing his new camera mount when he happened to catch a 
> meteor entering the atmosphere. Not only is the bright light amazing, but the 
> sonic boom is ...
>
> Cheers
>
>
> Ian Macleod
>
> __
>
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> Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
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Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery

2016-01-15 Thread MexicoDoug via Meteorite-list
Why when making the discovery of meteorites in the field, why then give 
away the scientific analysis and identification process to another? Why not 
learn how to do it for yourself so that your knowledge of the science of 
meteoritics increases? Why give away that joy of this discovery process? Sure I 
understand that many can't do it or perhaps they aren't interested in the whole 
scientific process, but I am.

+++
Interesting questions if you are so inclined to do the 
mineralogy/classification and have or can develop the skills and resources to 
do it which are capable of withstanding peer review.  The angle I have to 
answer your questions...you are welcomed to claim anything you want if it is 
your rock, or for that matter someone else's rock.  The reason an independent 
party is brought in is to prevent a conflict of interests in "layperson's 
terms".

If it is a learning process for you, congratulations on your enthusiasm to 
learn more on the subject using your unknown specimen as a self-teaching aid 
and more.  Like learning to dance with what may turn out to be a broom instead 
of an authentic partner ;)

I have a concern with your self-promotion of your rock before it has met any 
formal scientific peer review, or at least publication in an accredited 
scientific journal with a responsible policy of editorial review covering 
whatever appears in their publications and bulletins.  Until this happens, your 
conclusions or interpretations are not validated and subject to a wide variety 
if biases, including but not limited to self-serving bias, confirmation bias, 
and optimism bias.

I wish you the greatest luck with your specimen and your studies, and like all 
other criticism you are likely to receive, that is a healthy part of the 
scientific process to be appreciated, which eventually will invalidate or 
support your budding studies.  Meteorite and meteor-wrong classification is 
based on the ability of a sample to be distributed to independent researchers 
with a stellar reputation in the meteoritical community for this reason.

Best of luck!



-Original Message-
From: Ann Cain via Meteorite-list 
To: meteorite-list 
Sent: Fri, Jan 15, 2016 2:59 am
Subject: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery


Meteorite List,


Recall: 
Both my sister Ann Cain (who opened the email account) and I, Glyn Howard, use 
the same email account:

Ann Cain, Glyn Howard
gfndit(at)hotmail.com



This has been a long time coming ... for many years now I have been a reader of 
the Meteorite List.

I know this discovery sounds Wow! Unbelievable. Surreal. Pick your adjective. 
But it is what is is. All the physical empirical evidences prove it. I'm not in 
fear of re-confirmation. I welcome it. I know what it is. It's all repeatable 
(empirical). 

I appreciate well-known PhD members from the Meteorite List who have contacted 
me off-line. I will respond. Please give me time.


The evidence for the typical Mars meteorite key type specimens for this 
discovery:

GSA and GSB

http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidence.html

http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidenceGSA.html

http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidenceGSB.html


The Gallery of US World Record Mars Meteorite specimens:

http://gfoundit-mars.com/GalleryOfImages.html


I will be putting-up/finishing the gallery of World Record Mars meteorite 
specimens by this Passover.



I do not want to hurt anyone's professional reputation. I'm not a mean or 
vengeful person. The full complete back story and certain people's identities 
will remain private. Just know there is a private history in the background of 
this incredible discovery and full story. Several very well known PhDs at 
Universities in the meteoritics community, who are meteorite analysts, members 
of the Meteoritcal Society, and perhaps at times over the years have even 
posted here on the Meteorite List, have held some of these specimens in their 
hands, have done tests. They know. I knew they were meteorites before I came to 
them. I knew that they were achondrites. However, at the time I couldn't prove 
the parent body. I didn't know how.

The moment I wasn't willing to share or reveal the discovery site is the moment 
the road-blocks, the walls, the disinformation began toward me. (Extrusive 
igneous Dacite, an evolved lava, is not a sedimentary rock! Lol.) We've seen 
this kind of behavior in the meteoritcs community before. It's nothing new, 
sadly. This is a dark history of the meteoritics world unfortunately. How many 
very rare important discoveries have been lost to the world of science and to 
mankind because those in research and academia  have played unethical games of 
gate-keeping and have refused to just do their job and just do pure science and 
do the analysis honestly and ethically without games, without gate-keeping, 
without attempting to wrestle 

Re: [meteorite-list] How is Tucson Going??

2014-01-27 Thread MexicoDoug

Great weather Larry, thanks Jim,

While everyone is holding their breath for the mountains of black stone 
to rise, from wiktionary.com:


The name Tucson comes from the O'odham name for the city, Chuk Shon, 
meaning Spring at the base of the black mountain.


Hope everyone gets a little piece of the black mountain who goes.

Part of the evolution of the name was due to Spanish military 
settlement which Hispanicized Chuk Shon into Tucson; however unlike 
common TWO-san pronunciations of today, the Spanish pronounced it 
Tuc-SON with the accent on the second syllable.  In my conversation 
with several Mexican academic types, they have pronounced it as 
Tuck-SON, but I really couldn't say if it is really how the original 
presidio was pronounced, or if it is just an artifact of modern 
difficulty of a native Mexican dealing with the CS combination which 
doesn't fit Castilian or Andalucian and their derivatives very well.


From the stuff you never wanted to know department, but I hope better 
than posting a “test” message with a “no-reply”


Kindest wishes
Doug






-Original Message-
From: lebofsky lebof...@lpl.arizona.edu
To: Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net
Cc: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Sat, Jan 25, 2014 8:33 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] How is Tucson Going?? Astronomy Event

Hi Jim:

From a local, I am looking forward to seeing old friends and other 

locals
who I do not see very often. By Saturday February 1, it will have cooled
down to a high of 71 (it may hit 80 at the end of the month) and there 
is

a small chance of rain (should we blame those Colorado folks who will be
arriving around then?).

Also, if you have a car and free time, on Saturday February 8, at Pima
Community College East Campus (near Davis Monthan Air Force Base) there
will be an all-day astronomy expo and evening observing (if it is clear)
hosted by Astronomy Magazine. I will be there (for Girl Scouts, 
Planetary

Science Institute, and James Webb Telescope) and the Tucson Amateur
Astronomy Association and people from OSIRIS-REx will be there, too.

http://cs.astronomy.com/asy/b/daves-universe/archive/2014/01/16/gearing-up-for-our-big-tucson-star-party.aspx

Larry


Hi List!

I have not heard much about Tucson this year.  Not much in the way of
people sharing anything.
So what's going on there for the show?  Any killer buys?  What are the
prices looking like?
Everyone loose their butts or what?


Jim



--
Jim Wooddell
jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net
http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/

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Re: [meteorite-list] OT: on a personal note

2012-08-10 Thread MexicoDoug

Hi Martin

Since you like Cats, to cheer you up Martin !!! ... brought to you by 
the Cat in the Hat, I hope you'll be back to health and of course 
meteorite dealing ... and wanted to remind you of its thrills, 
pleasures and intricacies as illustrated by Sylvester McMonkey McMean - 
get your star back on your belly soon!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3yJomUhs0g#t=2m37s

(One of them stopped in back yard to say hello ... a few days ago - see 
attached Anhinga image ;-)


Kindest wishes  Buckleboo!
Doug




-Original Message-
From: Chladnis Heirs n...@chladnis-heirs.com
To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thu, Aug 9, 2012 5:49 pm
Subject: [meteorite-list] OT: on a personal note


Dear list members,

to avoid possible irritations, I've to give out:

Due to a longsome disease I'm forced to take a downtime from meteorites.
How long it will take, I can't foresee, but I'm confident, to be there 
for

you, in the way you're used to, after recovery.

In the meantime I'd like to ask you to address with your meteoritical
concerns to Chladni's Heir Stefan:

ste...@meteoriten.com
or
n...@chladnis-heirs.com

Thank you for your understanding
and best regards,
Martin



Stefan  Martin

Chladni's Heirs
Munich - Berlin
Fine Meteorites for Science  Collectors

http://www.chladnis-heirs.com


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Re: [meteorite-list] Curiosity Update - August 8, 2012

2012-08-09 Thread MexicoDoug
Is that a USA flag on Curiosity's back bumper, just out of the field of 
view (Where a kid friendly cartoon sketch of curiosity accompanies its 
name in outlined visually friendly font?)  Is this the first mission 
that is a flagless ship or is it stowed away somewhere?


The new high resolution photos are just getting spectacular.  You can 
see how crisply JPL and NASA trumpets their logos (You didn't build 
this ... we did!), not to mention the treads having JPL printing its 
letters on each of the six wheels wherever it rolls mile after mile and 
kilometer aftwer kilometer we hope ;-).  Really gives a smirk of geek 
satisfaction!


But that symbolic gesture to the Stars and Bars so far is notably 
bsent, surprisingly, considering who footed the $2.6 dollar bill for 
such a feat that only is second to the Apollo Lunar Landings!


Kindest wishes
Doug
PS, the US flags on the Moon have all become bleached white flags




-Original Message-
From: Ron Baalke baa...@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov
To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thu, Aug 9, 2012 3:56 pm
Subject: [meteorite-list] Curiosity Update - August 8, 2012



http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/msl/news/whatsnew/index.cfm?FuseAction=ShowNewsNewsID=1298

Curiosity Continues Checking Herself Out; Takes Self Portrait
Jet Propulsion Laboratory
August 8, 2012

After waking up to the rousing refrains of the Beatles' Good
Morning Good Morning, a healthy Curiosity continued checking out her
systems and returning amazing imagery. The Sol 2 morning and afternoon
UHF communications passes from NASA's Mars Odyssey and Mars 
Reconnaissance

Orbiter spacecraft provided significant new data, including spectacular
full-frame images of the Mars Science Laboratory's descent through the
Martian atmosphere by Curiosity's Mars Descent Imager (MARDI) 
instrument.
Other imagery included full-frame views from the rover's navigation 
cameras,
or Navcams, looking at the rim of Gale Crater; the first, 
lower-resolution
thumbnail 360-degree view of Curiosity's new surroundings in Gale 
Crater;

deck pan images of the rover herself; and images of the Martian surface
next to the rover. Another image set, courtesy of the Context Camera,
or CTX, aboard NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter, has pinpointed the
final resting spots of the six, 55-pound (25-kilogram) entry ballast 
masses.

These tungsten masses impacted the Martian surface at high speed, about
7.5 miles (12 kilometers) from Curiosity's landing location.

The rover's high-gain antenna was successfully pointed toward Earth. 
Its
3.6-foot-tall (1.1-meter) remote sensing mast was deployed, and range 
of
motion was successfully tested. Surface radiation data were acquired 
from
the Radiation Assessment Detector (RAD) instrument but have not yet 
been

downlinked. Curiosity's temperatures are running a bit warmer than
expected; however, the flight team believes this is because Gale Crater
is simply a bit warmer than originally predicted.

Plans for Sol 3 include assessing the performance
of the high-gain antenna; uplinking files for the upcoming transition
of Curiosity's flight software to the surface-optimized version R10 on
Sol 5; Radiation Assessment Detector instrument observations; and 
Mastcam

calibration target and 360-degree color panorama images. In addition,
the rover's Alpha Particle X-ray Spectrometer (APXS), Chemistry  
Mineralogy
Analyzer (CheMin), Sample Analysis at Mars (SAM), and Dynamic Albedo 
Neutrons

(DAN) instruments will be checked out.

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[meteorite-list] Curiosity falling coordinates ;-) on Google Mars

2012-08-08 Thread MexicoDoug

Hello Martians

After all this talk about landing ellipses that sounded so Jamais vu 
in relation to meteorites:


Someone else might be interested in comparing the Curiosity bolide in 
parachuting freefall to the Martian surface - in Google Mars.  The 
exact *Martian* coordinates [using differential MPS 10 meter resolution 
;-)] of Curiosity itself imaged, which you can match up with the great 
HiRise picture from MRO of the parachuting descent of the Curiosity 
landing ensemble are:


Mars
4°32'52.02S
137°26'48.63E

Hopefully the landing site will prove more exotic than those 
coordinates on Earth 100 years ago.  Looks like there are a few bugs to 
be worked out with latitude and longitude - either that or Curiosity 
has landed in Indonesia, in the Papua province of the island of New 
Guinea, in the general area of the cannibals that live in tree houses 
known as the Korowai.  They live in tree house since traditionally 
those have better protection against the roving headhunters.  Such a 
culture, that until 1970 they believed they were the only humans on 
Earth... Hopefully the Martians will be better hosts for the human 
invasion.


Oops, I just changed my Google Earth to Google Mars (simply clicking on 
the little icon of Saturn on the toolbar and selecting Mars instead of 
Earth).  There are all my waypoints on Mars!  I'm currently staying up 
here in the northern hemisphere on the Labeatis Fossae among the most 
beautiful craters ;-)  Hope someone joins me; it's lonely on Mars, but 
strikingly beautiful in its own way...


Kindest wishes
Doug

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Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Questions

2012-08-04 Thread MexicoDoug

Not exactly the same Adam -

As you know better than anyone, in this business the profit is in the 
margin for the seller.


The 15/10 scheme is not as bad as the straight 25%.  As a buyer, I'd 
rather pay the 10% buyer's commission in the example you gave than no 
buyer commission and having the seller pay the entire 25% since that is 
more money.  So what you propose would actually add another 3% to the 
total cost grabbed by the auctioneer.


For a Total price of 100:

25% seller scheme:
Hammer price is 100 , the auction house take 25, seller get 75.

15%/10%:Seller/Buyer scheme:
Hammer price is 90.91, buyer pays 9.09 but the seller pays only 13.64 
yet nets 77.27.


The concept of two-side financing of the auction probably started 
innocently enough when some Dutch guys in wigs had to rent the 
facilities and thought it fair that everyone chipped in, sellers by a 
commission and buyers by an entry fee.  You know, like mall parking 
lots started at a flat $0.25 entry fee to pay the attendant.


Then, everyone complained that they needed their wives and husbands 
there to agree to ask permission, or their employees to help cart it 
away.  Also there were people who claimed they were there to help, but 
really did nothing and avoided the entrance fee.  Then the auctioneer 
said screw this, we'll just put a minor buyer's commission on the 
sales, and in any case the bigger the crowd the more likely bidders are 
likely to lose their head in the commotion with showboat bidding.


Phase three was when a change of business model miraculously occurred 
and plain greed took over: and the buyer's % fee was suddenly viewed as 
a source of income, and as you say has the benefit to obscure the bill 
so careless buyers paid more than they thought and could only grumble 
that the drinks at the bar weren't so cheap after all.


So my thought is that as long as the auctioneer is not gouging anyone 
it's ok.  Buyers are smart enough to add the buyer's commission if they 
are bidding responsibly and seriously.  The example is implemented no 
differently from a cooperative tax as you point out.  If you go to a 
restaurant, you wouldn't complain that tax was added to your bill, as 
long as the tax rate is reasonable.


In Mexico, where sales taxes are higher than the US, btw, all prices 
are quoted inclusive of tax, so WYSIWYG on the bill and customers are 
happy since they don't have to count what's in their wallet while 
figuring in taxesto see ifthey have enough after taxes.  It make for 
interesting accounting as it pushes the burden to the vendor to back 
out the tax.  So if something is 99.80 MXN pesos the accountant sets up 
a spreadsheet and determines 86.79 is the income and 13.01 is the tax 
due.  So everyone is running around with calculators all the time 
dividing everything by 1.15 to back out the 15% VAT.  It gets to be a 
real pain in the arse.


Kindest wishes
Doug






-Original Message-
From: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com
To: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Sat, Aug 4, 2012 9:53 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Questions




Hi Michael and List,

I think that 25% is a reasonable commission to charge the seller and 
see no need
whatsoever for a buyers premium.  The seller will still realize the 
same amount
at the end of the day.  15% plus 10% still equals 25% of the selling 
price going
to the party throwing the auction meaning the seller will still realize 
75%.  I
think 25% is reasonable considering the value added but playing games 
with
numbers only serves to confuse me. I commend you on be open about the 
real costs
and not hiding the buyers premium in small lettering on some obscure 
part of a

website.

A buyers premium feels like a tax to me.  I cannot understand why 
anybody would
pay 20% for the privilege of buying.   Imagine if gas stations added 
20% to the
advertised  pump price only to have buyers shocked when they realized 
how much

they really paid when it comes time to settle up the bill.  It is like
advertising fuel at $3.00/gallon when you are really paying 
$3.60/gallon.


I need to think about why this concept even exists.

Kind Regards,

Adam




Hi Adam and all,

        The short answer is it is increasingly costly to manage an
Auction - and sellers won't place items if the consignment fee
Is too high. Personally, I believe a 20% buyers' premium is far
Too high and I am determined to never go beyond 10%. However,
If auctions (not just mine) are to survive the MUST have sellers
Consigning items and, as I said, there is a limit to what a seller
Will be willing to sacrifice as a consignment fee.

        I am not really suggesting this - but just AS AN EXAMPLE,
if you wanted To place 20 items with me I would happily allow
you to pay me 10% MORE for your listing fee and let the buyers
bid on your items with No buyers premium. How would that
work for you? Not so good, eh? Not to worry, I really don't need
ANOTHER element to juggle at the 

Re: [meteorite-list] CURIOSITY POLL VOTE

2012-08-04 Thread MexicoDoug

Hey Paul,

Of course it will work!  100% !!!

What seemed to me the easiest point of failure is when it is lowered on 
the sky crane tether.  Worrysome to me was the incredible storm of fine 
crater silt would be kicked up and get into everything.  But 
remembering the 1% Earth's atmosphere has its benefits, too - so it's 
important to not terrestrialize the concept too much.  The rockets of 
the descent stage (crane) will be blowing such thin air that it will 
work!  It must! ;-)


If you are a Good Wife fan or a Bitcoin fan, this might have been 
amusing -


http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=147
... assuming it isn't a scam, had a bet running that closed on August 
1. (the bet the event date of Aug 21, which is the end of the window 
proposed several months ago)


The above bitcoinmoney is 77.6% for a landing success, where success is 
considered when Curiosity *establishes initial radio contact*.


I don't know about the legality of the bet or names of any other 
bookmakers running it.  After Beagle, it would seem to me an appealing 
bet in the UK to a certain segment.  If anyone want's to put some money 
up instead of beers, there's bound to be a few betting / oddsmaking 
markets online somewhere.


Kindest wishes
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Paul Gessler cetu...@shaw.ca
To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Sat, Aug 4, 2012 5:30 pm
Subject: [meteorite-list] CURIOSITY POLL VOTE


A bunch of my friends are waging bets on whether the mission is a 
success.
At least 3 cases of beer are involved and for NASA/JPL/Caltech over 
$2.5

BILLION (that's a lot of beer)

I am very curious as to what the people on this list think of the 
Curiosity

mission and it's chances?
I have a poll below. Please e-mail me directly with your vote or the
met-list if you want everyone to see.

Here is the link to the video posted earlier to bring you up to speed:

http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/Ki_Af_o9Q9s




A: Will work 100%


B: Won't work at all! Crash and Burn. Bad idea.


C: Something tells me it Won't work but hopeful it does.


D: Partial success, lands broken.


Be honest with yourself
I will post the results after we all know.

Thanks:
Paul Gessler

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[meteorite-list] Martian Meteor Curiosity

2012-08-02 Thread MexicoDoug

Hi Ron, Paul, Listers,

A 45 kg parachute capable of handling 9 earth g's on Mars and 65,000 
pounds of force ...


For those who haven't seen from Paul's newspaper link this awesome 
simulation of science fiction dreams of yesteryear in the capable hands 
of JPL Engineers of today...


Here's a youtube link to the seven minute entry of Curiosity in three 
days, and it's in HD full screen:


http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/Ki_Af_o9Q9s

pinch me when it's over and the sky crane jetting to safe distance ...

Kindest wishes
Doug




-Original Message-
From: Ron Baalke baa...@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov
To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thu, Aug 2, 2012 2:36 pm
Subject: [meteorite-list] Newest NASA Mars Mission Connects Past and 
Future





Aug. 2, 2012

Dwayne Brown/Steve Cole
Headquarters, Washington
202-358-1726/202-358-0918
dwayne.c.br...@nasa.gov
stephen.e.c...@nasa.gov

Guy Webster/D.C. Agle
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
818-354-6278/818-393-9011
guy.webs...@jpl.nasa.gov
a...@jpl.nasa.gov

RELEASE: 12-264

NEWEST NASA MARS MISSION CONNECTS PAST AND FUTURE

WASHINGTON -- NASA's newest Mars mission, landing in three days, will
draw on support from missions sent to Mars years ago and will
contribute to missions envisioned for future decades.

Curiosity is a bold step forward in learning about our neighboring
planet, but this mission does not stand alone. It is part of a
sustained, coordinated program of Mars exploration, said Doug
McCuistion, director of the Mars Exploration Program at NASA
Headquarters in Washington. This mission transitions the program's
science emphasis from the planet's water history to its potential for
past or present life.

As the Mars Science Laboratory spacecraft places the Curiosity rover
on the surface of Mars next week, NASA will be using the Mars Odyssey
orbiter, in service since 2001, as a relay for rapidly confirming the
landing to Curiosity's flight team and the rest of the world. Earth
will be below the Mars horizon from Curiosity's perspective, so the
new rover will not be in direct radio contact with Earth. Two newer
orbiters also will be recording Curiosity's transmissions, but that
data will not be available on Earth until hours later.

When Curiosity lands beside a mountain inside a crater at about 1:31
a.m. EDT, Aug. 6 (10:31 p.m. PDT Aug. 5), the 1-ton rover's two-year
prime mission on the surface of Mars will begin. However, one of the
rover's 10 science instruments, the Radiation Assessment Detector
(RAD), already has logged 221 days collecting data since the
spacecraft was launched on its trip to Mars on Nov. 26, 2011.

Our observations already are being used in planning for human
missions, said Don Hassler of Southwest Research Institute in
Boulder, Colo., principal investigator for Curiosity's RAD.

The instrument recorded radiation spikes from five solar flare events
spewing energetic particles from the sun into interplanetary space.
Radiation from galactic cosmic rays, originating from supernova
explosions and other extremely distant events, accounted for more of
the total radiation experienced on the trip than the amount from
solar particle events. Inside the spacecraft, despite shielding
roughly equivalent to what surrounds astronauts on the International
Space Station, RAD recorded radiation amounting to a significant
contribution to a NASA astronaut's career-limit radiation dose.

Curiosity's main assignment is to investigate whether its study area
ever has offered environmental conditions favorable for microbial
life. To do that, it packs a science payload weighing 15 times as
much as the science instruments on previous Mars rovers. The landing
target, an area about 12 miles by 4 miles (20 kilometers by 7
kilometers), sits in a safely flat area between less-safe slopes of
the rim of Gale Crater and the crater's central peak, informally
called Mount Sharp. The target was plotted to be within driving
distance of layers on Mount Sharp, where minerals that formed in
water have been seen from orbit.

Some deposits right inside the landing area look as though they were
deposited by water, too, said John Grotzinger of the California
Institute of Technology (Caltech) in Pasadena, project scientist for
Curiosity. We have a great landing site that was a strong science
contender for earlier missions, but was not permitted for engineering
constraints because no earlier landing could be targeted precisely
enough to hit a safe area inside Gale Crater. The science team feels
very optimistic about exploration of Mount Sharp and the surrounding
region that includes the landing ellipse.

Mission engineers designed a sky crane maneuver, lowering Curiosity on
nylon cords from a rocket backpack because the rover is too heavy to
use the airbag system developed for earlier rovers. We know it looks
crazy, said Adam Steltzner of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL)
in Pasadena, leader of the team that developed the system. It 

[meteorite-list] Email hacked

2012-07-11 Thread MexicoDoug

Dear list (real message)

Everyone, sorry I haven't had time to post, or even go online lately 
due to family health circumstances.  Unfortunately, just one month 
un-updated and it seems about a thousand people in my address book are 
receiving stupid 'h .e.llo' type messages.  Thanks to everyone for 
alerting me and please DO NOT CLICK ON ANY LINKS in any email from me.  
There are no viruses, the only problem is the embarrassing links sent 
out to the world by the scammer who got me, which will probably help 
him steal your address book too if you click on it without having you 
address book protected.


The only places I may have picked up this email scourage as far as I 
can guess, is the Wisconsin Humane Society's Play with a cat remotely 
on the their adopt a cat website, or some checker I ran on my computer 
because of the FBI DNS Changer scare a couple days ago.


A thousand apologies, an current in-depth virus check on my computer 
with Eset (zero virus result), a complete deleting/cleaning of the 
registries with CCleaner's maximum security settings, a run of the 
Windows updater to install all elements to date not installed, and 
double removal of all cookies and cache is what I did.  Any real email 
from me will not have any stupid Re:Greetings sort of subject.  I will 
put something personal in the subject line.


Sorry, sheesh, what bad timing, over 25 years using internet and let 
your guard down a moment and you can get slammed.  My best wishes to 
all as I've missed corresponding with so many.


Kindest wishes
Doug
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[meteorite-list] Venusian Moms (and Martian Apples)

2012-05-13 Thread MexicoDoug

Dear List;

http://www.diogenite.com/moms.jpg

Even though the day set aside for Mothers varies by country, it was 
this past Thursday in Mexico, Today in the USA and many Germanic 
nations, March 8 in Morocco, and two weeks from today in France, etc., 
I thought today would be a good day to post this lovely picture!


If She sends you to town to sell the cow, ask her beforehand if it's ok 
to exchange Bessie for a few beans that will grow stalks to the Moon 
you hope you can climb, and don't forget your LPS ;-)


Kindest wishes
Doug
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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite main mass hunting with a blimp

2012-05-03 Thread MexicoDoug
Sounds to me more like a publicity stunt from the blimp company, 
offered to scientists free for publicity they can get for their blimp 
rides.  Pretty good marketing on the company's part, IMO.  As for 
scientists, pretty sure they are going for free, just their fixed 
overhead expense will be lost to the government, their grant, private 
company or whatever combination they work under.  Surely they told 
their bosses they would do it on a weekend, or work the weekend to make 
it up, it's all funny money anyway and anyways, in their business and 
all of government in general Work expands so as to fill the time 
available for its completion., so nothing really lost and they will 
love their jobs more.  Who among us wouldn't go in a heartbeat, come'on.


Anyway if they follow the estimate trajectory line they conceivably 
might see something from a different perspective, like Tunguska :-P, 
but it really sounds more like they are goofing off. Well, they have 
the chance to get the last laugh.


Scientists routinely use expensive fitted jets to stay aloft many hours 
during meteor showers just to get better sampling of the action from 
the higher altitude.  I can see where one idea led to another.  At 
least Sky Adventures or whatever it's called will see a spike of 
business.


Best wishes
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com
To: karmaka karmaka-meteori...@t-online.de
Cc: met-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thu, May 3, 2012 8:09 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite main mass hunting with a blimp


My god, these are the people who can't pay a dime or samples but can 
piss away
our taxpayer  money on this? My wife is a pilot, I fly with her often, 
you can

not see a 50 gallon barrel from 500 ft up. Good luck with that plan.
Must be nice to work on the expense account!
Michael Farmer

Sent from my iPhone

On May 3, 2012, at 12:33 PM, karmaka karmaka-meteori...@t-online.de 
wrote:



Watch out for the blimp !

A new way of hunting the Sutter's Mill 'main mass':

 Scientists today are mounting a massive search in the Sierra Nevada

foothills for meteorite fragments [...]
Experts from NASA and the SETI institute are en route to Sacramento 

this
morning aboard a zeppelin provided by Airship Ventures, based at 
Moffett Field
in the Bay Area. They were expected to stop briefly at McClellan Park 
airfield
around 11 a.m., then lift off again to spend the afternoon surveying 
foothill

regions of Placer and El Dorado counties. 




http://www.sacbee.com/2012/05/03/4463578/scientists-on-the-hunt-for-meteorite.html


Track the ship here:

http://www.airshipventures.com/about/track-the-ship

GOOD LUCK !!

Martin



Postfach fast voll? Jetzt kostenlos E-Mail Adresse @t-online.de 

sichern und
endlich Platz für tausende Mails haben.

http://www.t-online.de/email-kostenlos


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Re: [meteorite-list] Asteroid Or Comet Sutters Mill

2012-05-02 Thread MexicoDoug

Hi Guys, great contributions;

Could we possibly be talking a 944 Hidalgo or something closer to an 
(old friend of Larry) 733 Irmintraud ?  Hidalgo specifically, Iis any 
possible path from it that leads to an intersection with Earth ...  
Hidalgo being historically a unicorn of a cometary/asteroid object with 
low albedo


Kindest wishes
Doug


-Original Message-
From: lebofsky lebof...@lpl.arizona.edu
To: aerubin aeru...@ucla.edu
Cc: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wed, May 2, 2012 11:47 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Asteroid Or Comet Sutters Mill


Hi Again:

One other place that seems to have abundant CM-like material, the 
surface

of Vesta. There are dark areas on Vesta that seem to be composed of
carbonaceous chondritic material (based again on albedo and spectrum). I
do not know all of the details (missed some of the papers at the Lunar 
and
Planetary Science Conference), but my impression is that the dark 
material

did have the spectral signature of material altered by water, implying
that Vesta has been hit over time by C-class asteroids. This is 
consistent

with what Alan is saying about clasts in howardites (which a thought to
come from Vesta).

To answer your question, Mike, once you alter (hydrate) the silicate
material and make a phyllosilicate, it is not that easy to get rid of 
the

water (need temperatures that are in the hundreds of degrees centigrade.
You just needed temperatures low enough when the asteroids formed for
water to condense out, probably the middle of the present asteroid belt.

Larry



CM chondrites are also ubiquitous.  The most abundant foreign
component of the lunar soil is chemically similar to CM chondrites.
If i recall, many fireballs also seem to be CM like, although other
list members would be better able to address this point.  More CM
chondrites would be in our meteorite collections if they weren't so
friable.  There are also many CM clasts in meteorite breccias, both
ordinary chondrite regolith breccias like Abbott, Plainview, Dimmitt
and Fayetteville, and howardites such as Kapoeta. This ubiquity
mandates a reliable local source, i.e., not a comet but an asteroid.
Some of the clasts in ordinary chondrites are unshocked, meaning that
they came in at low relative velocities, also very un-comet like. As
the asteroid guys say, the CM chondrites are probably from some types
of C asteroids located at the outer reaches of the main belt; at those
places ambient temperatures are low and volatiles are more likely to
remain on the parent body.  That is why CMs contain about 9 wt.% water
(within phyllosilicates) and CI chondrites contain appreciably more.


Quoting Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com:


Hi List,

This is great stuff.  Thanks to Alan and Larry for enlightening us on
this.

There has been some talk of the volatiles content of CM meteorites.
So, is it safe to assume that CM meteorites also originate from the
darker outer reaches of the asteroid belt where Tagish Lake hails
from?  Meteorites rich in volatiles presumably come from that region
where solar effects are minimized?

Best regards,

MikeG

--
---
Galactic Stone  Ironworks - MikeG

Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
---



On 5/2/12, lebof...@lpl.arizona.edu lebof...@lpl.arizona.edu wrote:

Hi Alan:

I would agree with you on the consensus that CMs would appear to 

come

from
asteroids. Based on spectra and albedo, CM meteorites look like 

C-class
(and possibly several other low-albedo classes) asteroids (very 

common

in
the Main Belt). These are asteroid that have surface compositions
showing
that they have been exposed to liquid water, phyllosilicates.

There is no (or little) evidence that comets have had interiors warm
enough to melt ice and create the water necessary to form
phyllosilicates.

Larry


I guess I've been goaded into responding.
First, at this point we don't know if the meteorite is a CM 

chondrite

or
not.  No meteorite researcher has completed an analysis of it yet
(perhaps
tomorrow or Friday) and I have not seen a piece.
But, on the more general question of CM chondrites, most 

researchers

believe
that the carbonaceous chondrites all are derived from asteroids.
There
is
more or less a continuum in properties across the chondrite 

groups; it

is
difficult to imagine that they are from different classes of parent
bodies,
i.e., asteroids vs. comets.  All chondrite groups (except CI) 

contain
chondrules, CAIs, matrix, metal and sulfide although the 

abundances of

these
phases can vary a lot among the groups.  Even CI chondrites 

contain a

few
olivine and pyroxene grains that seem to be chondrule fragments, a 

few
refractory mineral grains that seem to be CAI fragments, and even 

one

Re: [meteorite-list] [2] Asteroid Or Comet Sutters Mill

2012-05-02 Thread MexicoDoug

Or NEO (175706) 1996 FG3 !

(MPOD 24 Oct 2011)

Kindest wishes
Doug

-Original Message-
From: lebofsky lebof...@lpl.arizona.edu
To: aerubin aeru...@ucla.edu
Cc: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wed, May 2, 2012 11:47 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Asteroid Or Comet Sutters Mill


Hi Again:

One other place that seems to have abundant CM-like material, the 
surface

of Vesta. There are dark areas on Vesta that seem to be composed of
carbonaceous chondritic material (based again on albedo and spectrum). I
do not know all of the details (missed some of the papers at the Lunar 
and
Planetary Science Conference), but my impression is that the dark 
material

did have the spectral signature of material altered by water, implying
that Vesta has been hit over time by C-class asteroids. This is 
consistent

with what Alan is saying about clasts in howardites (which a thought to
come from Vesta).

To answer your question, Mike, once you alter (hydrate) the silicate
material and make a phyllosilicate, it is not that easy to get rid of 
the

water (need temperatures that are in the hundreds of degrees centigrade.
You just needed temperatures low enough when the asteroids formed for
water to condense out, probably the middle of the present asteroid belt.

Larry



CM chondrites are also ubiquitous.  The most abundant foreign
component of the lunar soil is chemically similar to CM chondrites.
If i recall, many fireballs also seem to be CM like, although other
list members would be better able to address this point.  More CM
chondrites would be in our meteorite collections if they weren't so
friable.  There are also many CM clasts in meteorite breccias, both
ordinary chondrite regolith breccias like Abbott, Plainview, Dimmitt
and Fayetteville, and howardites such as Kapoeta. This ubiquity
mandates a reliable local source, i.e., not a comet but an asteroid.
Some of the clasts in ordinary chondrites are unshocked, meaning that
they came in at low relative velocities, also very un-comet like. As
the asteroid guys say, the CM chondrites are probably from some types
of C asteroids located at the outer reaches of the main belt; at those
places ambient temperatures are low and volatiles are more likely to
remain on the parent body.  That is why CMs contain about 9 wt.% water
(within phyllosilicates) and CI chondrites contain appreciably more.


Quoting Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com:


Hi List,

This is great stuff.  Thanks to Alan and Larry for enlightening us on
this.

There has been some talk of the volatiles content of CM meteorites.
So, is it safe to assume that CM meteorites also originate from the
darker outer reaches of the asteroid belt where Tagish Lake hails
from?  Meteorites rich in volatiles presumably come from that region
where solar effects are minimized?

Best regards,

MikeG

--
---
Galactic Stone  Ironworks - MikeG

Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
---



On 5/2/12, lebof...@lpl.arizona.edu lebof...@lpl.arizona.edu wrote:

Hi Alan:

I would agree with you on the consensus that CMs would appear to 

come

from
asteroids. Based on spectra and albedo, CM meteorites look like 

C-class
(and possibly several other low-albedo classes) asteroids (very 

common

in
the Main Belt). These are asteroid that have surface compositions
showing
that they have been exposed to liquid water, phyllosilicates.

There is no (or little) evidence that comets have had interiors warm
enough to melt ice and create the water necessary to form
phyllosilicates.

Larry


I guess I've been goaded into responding.
First, at this point we don't know if the meteorite is a CM 

chondrite

or
not.  No meteorite researcher has completed an analysis of it yet
(perhaps
tomorrow or Friday) and I have not seen a piece.
But, on the more general question of CM chondrites, most 

researchers

believe
that the carbonaceous chondrites all are derived from asteroids.
There
is
more or less a continuum in properties across the chondrite 

groups; it

is
difficult to imagine that they are from different classes of parent
bodies,
i.e., asteroids vs. comets.  All chondrite groups (except CI) 

contain
chondrules, CAIs, matrix, metal and sulfide although the 

abundances of

these
phases can vary a lot among the groups.  Even CI chondrites 

contain a

few
olivine and pyroxene grains that seem to be chondrule fragments, a 

few
refractory mineral grains that seem to be CAI fragments, and even 

one
reported intact CAI.  Furthermore, the isolated olivine and 

pyroxene

grains
in CI chondrites have the same olivine Fa vs. CaO distribution as 

in

CM
chondrites suggesting that they are from a similar source.
I think that the CM chondrites are from an asteroid that was 

Re: [meteorite-list] Pojoaque Pallisite

2012-04-30 Thread MexicoDoug
Interesting though these are likely three different types of human 
weathering (wearing).


w1: Here's a nice picture of the Canyon Diablo (Camp Verde iron) piece 
in which listmembers can appreciate these comments regarding possible 
handling (rubbing, perhaps along these line suggested something similar 
to a tradition of receiving sacrament (Eucharist (sp?)) some Mexican 
Catholic churches when a transmuted plaster-Jesus is kissed by nearly 
everyone attending lined up single file - causing wear).


http://books.google.com/books?id=xCGpmoJl2dgCpg=PA118

w2: The perceptions of wear  on an ancient, recovered find are of a 
different nature than one with fresh fusion crust and flowlines plus, 
over the stony olivine crystals of the Glorieta Mountain (Pojoaque 
iron) piece what was claimed to be a thick, possible fresh fusion 
crust.  But as you say they could show different sorts of handling, in 
a case of a 61 kilos Camp Verde, not likely to have been carried about! 



w3: As for Anoka (Havana beads), as well as the Egyptian stuff, that's 
a different type of forming and wearing than Pojoaque and Camp Verde 
- the work in the literature and a poster on the Smithsonian website a 
few years ago pairing some of those to the Anoka meteorite suggests 
that the Smithsonian/UCLA/Iowa has access to two of the mentioned beads.


We conducted optical microscopy, SEM ele-mental and phase mapping, 
electron microprobe analy-ses, LA-ICP-MS and INAA analyses of Havana 
and Anoka for comparison.


ref:
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2008/pdf/1984.pdf


kindest wishes
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Regine P. fips_br...@yahoo.de
To: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com; Meteorite-list 
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com

Sent: Mon, Apr 30, 2012 2:00 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pojoaque Pallisite


Camp Verde comes to mind, of which one side, the backbone as Laurence 
Garvie
calls it, seems to have been rubbed smooth. But taken its weight it 
could hardly
have been carried around by a medicine man. Since I have first seen it 
I have
always imagined someone taking it for its deceased child which has 
fallen back
from the sky. It has a head, shoulders and a spine. Just a trifle heavy 
perhaps.




- Ursprüngliche Message -

Von: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com
An: fips_br...@yahoo.de; Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
CC:
Gesendet: 1:57 Montag, 30.April 2012
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Pojoaque Pallisite

 quot; the meteorite had been carried in a medicine bag? It doesn't 

sound

implausible, but what are the clues?

Hi, Regine, Carleton, Mike, Bernd, Jeff, David, Listers;

I would like to draw some attention to the carried in a medicine
pouch since Regine asked ;-)

These guys are all with the Great Spirit now, who did the 

excavations, so

we're stuck analyzing something that was contermplated in the 1920's
with the baggage of nearly an intervening century.

It is quite possible, like many things, that this medicine pouch 

comment is a
comment run amok as usual with meteorites, someone says something, 

then it
takes
on a life of its own due to tales getting taller,even among 

conservative
scientists, unintentionally, of course, everyone just takes away a 

different

idea and they follow natural 'election'.

The original comment seems to be that it was carried as medicine,
rather than in a medicine pouch.  While this seems to be a minor 

difference,

it's not.  One involves an inference and the other is more of an
observation.

Nininger later (1952) expounds on the comment when discussing Native 

American
meteorite collectors and the medicine pounch has by then become alive 

in its

own, through no one's fault.

The concept of medicine doesn't necessarily require a pouch, and
may not even be in the hands of a medicine man, why, it just as well 

could
have
been a chief, or a brave warrior ... and could just as well be from a 

great
deal

of handling.  The observation was simply that at least three of the
protuberances above the regmaglypts depressions were highly worn from 

what was

very plausibly a soft material.  To make the leap to call it a pouch, 

or just
a
lot of hands ... is a good philosophical theme for a room full of 

meteorite
collectors and archeaologists without Regine's magic powder burns 

evidence. 
But the fact was, the wear was supposedly caused from a lot of 

handling or
rubbing.  That said, ablation is a strange master and it would be 

very

interesting to revisit this wear which formed the basis of the
original archaeological comments.

What is for sure, apparently is that it was found inside the pottery 

and that
in
turn in a burial ground.  So there are some Spirits floating around 

it. 
Perhaps
Man  Impact Ed has a theory, it's his ballywick.  But we do need to 

see
it.  Carleton kindly mentions that a couple of grams were at ASU, 

that makes
sense that Nininger would take some.  My fear is that calling this 

pivotal
iron

just another synonym does

Re: [meteorite-list] Sutter's Mill/Lotus/? bolide physics at the time of breakup

2012-04-30 Thread MexicoDoug

Hi Mendy and Bob, Listees;

Yes, the explosion, which is not an explosion in a chemical sense, 
does involve an altering of trajectory, rather than arbitrarily saying 
toward the ground, theory goes it is in a direction perpendicular to 
the trajectory due to energy of the differential pressure on front vs. 
back faces of fragments. But that is thought to be spent in theoretical 
cases at about 5-10 times the diameter of the bolide - and the 
downfield projection on the ground is the elliptical sectioning which 
has the added fractionation of heavier pieces having more momentum to 
carry further forward..


So in actuality the explosion might better be termed a flowering.  
The so called kiloton energy widely quoted, has huge assumptions 
since each case is unique depending on the conditions of the meteoroid, 
but I think it is generally just some clever guess at how a pressure 
wave relates to size and how to estimate all of the 0.5mv^2 kinetic 
energy of the meteoroid projectile, which I doubt instruments can 
detect as an integrate whole, just a wild order of magnitude, and 
rather have to make assumptions how quickly the bolide-bud flowers.  
Just a guess, so hopefully someone who does can explain more.  But 
based on this theory, no provisions are for more than a symmetrical 
statistical distribution of fragments that I know.  Your question in a 
practical sense would be, is everything so uniform, or might a few 
outlying pieces get a disproportionate amout of energy to be sent out.  
I don't see why not.


kindest wishes
Doug




-Original Message-
From: Robert Verish bolidecha...@yahoo.com
To: Mendy Ouzillou ouzil...@yahoo.com
Cc: Meteorite-list Meteoritecentral 
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com

Sent: Mon, Apr 30, 2012 11:47 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Sutter's Mill/Lotus/? bolide physics at 
the time of breakup



Strewn field workers have an arkane phrase for this phenomenon called,
blow-back, which is used to explain anomalies such as reverse 
size-grading, or
exceptionally large fragments at the very fine-end of an otherwise 
well

size-graded strewn-field.

Bob V.

--- On Mon, 4/30/12, Mendy Ouzillou ouzil...@yahoo.com wrote:


From: Mendy Ouzillou ouzil...@yahoo.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Sutter's Mill/Lotus/? bolide physics at the 

time of
breakup
To: 'meteoritelist meteoritelist' 

meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com

Date: Monday, April 30, 2012, 8:21 AM
I was curious to know if the primary
bolide breakup event was explosive or
simple fragmentation?

By explosive I mean at the time of the breakup, energy is
converted somehow
that causes some pieces to alter their trajectory and
shoot down to the
ground instead of following a normal parabolic trajectory.

Thanks,

Mendy

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Re: [meteorite-list] Pojoaque Pallisite

2012-04-30 Thread MexicoDoug

the handling by many [Canyon Diablo (Camp Verde)]

Conjectures of course on everyone' part, peppered by our own biases or 
cultural assumptions (Would Native Americans even have the concept of 
private property vs. community property for such a large relic?), which 
is what makes it a great subject for a round table discussion ... 
whether meteorites or not, look at Kaaba's Black Stone or Ensisheim as 
possibilities, here - from wikipedia, on the Kaaba Black Stone:


Its physical appearance is that of a fragmented dark rock, polished 
smooth by the hands of millions of pilgrims. Islamic tradition holds 
that it fell from Heaven to show Adam and Eve where to build an 
altar...


One guy I know who picked up an Allende stone in 1969 had a strange 
belief and venerated his find in his own way, all by himself, over the 
years.  He somehow discovered his pristine stone would readily absorb 
(can't remember if it was water or oil, but I think oil), and he 
annointed it regularly with some strange fettish idea of that being 
good for it; nothing too serious but he believed it enough to do it 
regularly for decades.  He kept it trophy-mounted on a wooden base on 
his desk for many years.  If not for a witness, and had it been taken 
out of context, I wonder how the best meteoriticist might get the stone 
to talk (interpret the result)?


That's an excellent image of the profile of the Camp Verde iron - 
thanks for the followup ;-)


Kindest wishes
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Regine P. fips_br...@yahoo.de
To: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com; Meteorite-list 
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com

Sent: Mon, Apr 30, 2012 1:17 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pojoaque Pallisite


Other images are here:

http://spiralmemo.blogspot.de/p/blog-page.html

and here:

http://spiralmemo.blogspot.de/p/night-at-museum.html


Interesting, the handling by many somehow never occurred to me. I 
always
imagined just one person treating the meteorite as one of his own kids. 
Perhaps

because it was wrapped in a feather blanket and had its own grave.



- Ursprüngliche Message -

Von: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com
An: fips_br...@yahoo.de; Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
CC:
Gesendet: 16:22 Montag, 30.April 2012
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Pojoaque Pallisite

Interesting though these are likely three different types of human
weathering (wearing).

w1: Here's a nice picture of the Canyon Diablo (Camp Verde iron) 

piece

in which listmembers can appreciate these comments regarding possible
handling (rubbing, perhaps along these line suggested something 

similar

to a tradition of receiving sacrament (Eucharist (sp?)) some Mexican
Catholic churches when a transmuted plaster-Jesus is kissed by nearly
everyone attending lined up single file - causing wear).

http://books.google.com/books?id=xCGpmoJl2dgCpg=PA118

w2: The perceptions of wear  on an ancient, recovered find are of a
different nature than one with fresh fusion crust and flowlines plus,
over the stony olivine crystals of the Glorieta Mountain (Pojoaque
iron) piece what was claimed to be a thick, possible fresh fusion
crust.  But as you say they could show different sorts of handling, 

in
a case of a 61 kilos Camp Verde, not likely to have been carried 

about!



w3: As for Anoka (Havana beads), as well as the Egyptian stuff, 

that's
a different type of forming and wearing than Pojoaque and Camp 

Verde


- the work in the literature and a poster on the Smithsonian website 

a

few years ago pairing some of those to the Anoka meteorite suggests
that the Smithsonian/UCLA/Iowa has access to two of the mentioned 

beads.


We conducted optical microscopy, SEM ele-mental and phase mapping,
electron microprobe analy-ses, LA-ICP-MS and INAA analyses of Havana
and Anoka for comparison.

ref:
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2008/pdf/1984.pdf


kindest wishes
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Regine P. fips_br...@yahoo.de
To: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com; Meteorite-list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Mon, Apr 30, 2012 2:00 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pojoaque Pallisite


Camp Verde comes to mind, of which one side, the backbone as
Laurence
Garvie
calls it, seems to have been rubbed smooth. But taken its weight it
could hardly
have been carried around by a medicine man. Since I have first seen 

it

I have
always imagined someone taking it for its deceased child which has
fallen back
from the sky. It has a head, shoulders and a spine. Just a trifle 

heavy

perhaps.



- Ursprüngliche Message -

 Von: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com
 An: fips_br...@yahoo.de; Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 CC:
 Gesendet: 1:57 Montag, 30.April 2012
 Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Pojoaque Pallisite

 quot; the meteorite had been carried in a medicine bag? It doesn't


sound

 implausible, but what are the clues?

 Hi, Regine, Carleton, Mike, Bernd, Jeff, David, Listers;

 I would like to draw some attention to the carried in a medicine
 pouch

Re: [meteorite-list] Pojoaque Pallisite

2012-04-30 Thread MexicoDoug

hypothesis regarding Bonita Springs

Hi Mike, honestly, in the corrosive Florida coastal soils, it seems 
almost too good to be true considering the meteorite has a lot of iron 
through.  Seems the finder may not have been an academic.  You know 
these tall tales that can develop when somebody finds a space rock or 
wrong, the tales get bigger down the line.  I don't know anything about 
these two meteorites, as I avoid like the plague anthing that had been 
subjected to the likes of anything close to the disasterous effects of 
the Florida Intemperie that is both Bonita Springs and Grayton Beach, 
but both were supposedly found in midden mounds near skeletons (and the 
latter apparently seen by Povenmire after being found by two former 
Apollo guys treasure hunting by the beach, huh ;-).


If Hal didn't doubt the Grayton account it'll have to do okay but 
treasure seekers, salt soaked meteorite and space scientists, indian 
mounds make for colorful yarn, well, we have their word.


They are both H5, too, so perhaps they are paired?  I wonder if it has 
been checked.  That would be a coup if they were and your Florida (or 
Georgia or Alabama) strewn field suspicion might gain more steam!  
After metal detecting in coastal Florida soils myself, for years and 
years, I can personally tell you that any iron subjected to this in an 
aerobic or open environment is reduced to powder around a mineralized 
shale core in less than 100 years.


Kindest wishes
Doug

looks like your message made it through fine by itself


-Original Message-
From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com
To: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com
Cc: Meteorite-list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Mon, Apr 30, 2012 1:28 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pojoaque Pallisite


Hi Doug and List,

Your comments about the 61kg Camp Verde iron call to mind a similar
thought I had about the Bonita Springs chondrite.  Bonita Springs is a
42kg stone, and the current consensus is that the stone was
transported to it's eventual place of discovery in a pre-Calusa mound
in southern Florida.

I would argue against Bonita Springs being transported a great
distance for two reasons :

1) the pre-Calusa Indians of Florida were very war-like and did not
engage in trade with tribes from outside the region.

2) the weight of the stone seems (to me) to be too heavy to transport
great distances during a period prior to the introduction of horses to
North America by the Europeans.  I just cannot imagine an Indian
carrying around this ~100 pound rock for any extended period of time -
unless it was witnessed to fall.  Unlike a pallasite that has olivine
crystals visible on the outer surface, a typical stone chondrite would
not inspire worship as an other-wordly object - unless it was seen to
fall.

On the basis of those two points, I would argue that Bonita Springs is
a fall local to the general area where it was eventually found, or at
the very least from somewhere within the domain of the tribe who
buried it.

Given that ~100 pound chondrites rarely fall alone, it is not unlikely
that a lost strewnfield of H5 chondrites exists somewhere in Florida.

Whatever the case, I am greatly interested in the Indian folklore of
meteorites and would be keen to hear the thoughts of others on my
hypothesis regarding Bonita Springs.

Best regards,

MikeG

PS - my posts are not appearing on the List (I'm being moderated
perhaps?), so if Doug or someone else could please forward this to the
List, it would be appreciated.
--
---
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Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
---


On 4/30/12, MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com wrote:

Interesting though these are likely three different types of human
weathering (wearing).

w1: Here's a nice picture of the Canyon Diablo (Camp Verde iron) piece
in which listmembers can appreciate these comments regarding possible
handling (rubbing, perhaps along these line suggested something 

similar

to a tradition of receiving sacrament (Eucharist (sp?)) some Mexican
Catholic churches when a transmuted plaster-Jesus is kissed by nearly
everyone attending lined up single file - causing wear).

http://books.google.com/books?id=xCGpmoJl2dgCpg=PA118

w2: The perceptions of wear  on an ancient, recovered find are of a
different nature than one with fresh fusion crust and flowlines plus,
over the stony olivine crystals of the Glorieta Mountain (Pojoaque
iron) piece what was claimed to be a thick, possible fresh fusion
crust.  But as you say they could show different sorts of handling, in
a case of a 61 kilos Camp Verde, not likely to have been carried 

about!



w3: As for Anoka (Havana beads), as well as the Egyptian stuff, that's
a different type of forming and wearing than

Re: [meteorite-list] Pojoaque Pallisite

2012-04-30 Thread MexicoDoug
I'll look for a picture of it, but it is likely not in my present 
location.  I believe I posted a picture to the meteorite list though it 
has surely been at least five years.  The trophy-piece it is no longer 
with the finder as of about 10 years ago.  It is hazy in memory though 
I documented it extremely well photographically as it seemed like a 
priceless anecdote.  But the memory is coming back a bit as I mull it 
over.  I believe it was motor oil to be more specific  used motor 
oil!  It is hard to describe in a written form the invisible force that 
made him do this, but if fetish isn't the right word, which I think it 
is, a strong hankering or light obsession to annoint it because he 
perceived it required that, perhaps for its upkeep ... I didn't try to 
reason after I realized this was in the realm of beliefs, developed in 
an isolated case ... my Galapagos story of meteorite evolution in this 
miraculous world ... rather than shed tears for the stne itself, better 
to contemplate the meaning of this ;-)


Kindest wishes
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Regine P. fips_br...@yahoo.de
To: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com; Meteorite-list 
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com

Sent: Mon, Apr 30, 2012 5:12 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pojoaque Pallisite



What happened to the oily Allende trophy? He's not keeping it on his 
desk anymore?









 Von: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com
An: fips_br...@yahoo.de; Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Gesendet: 22:44 Montag, 30.April 2012
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Pojoaque Pallisite


the handling by many [Canyon Diablo (Camp Verde)]

Conjectures of course on everyone' part, peppered by our own biases or
cultural assumptions (Would Native Americans even have the concept of
private property vs. community property for such a large relic?), which
is what makes it a great subject for a round table discussion ...
whether meteorites or not, look at Kaaba's Black Stone or Ensisheim as
possibilities, here - from wikipedia, on the Kaaba Black Stone:

Its physical appearance is that of a fragmented dark rock, polished
smooth by the hands of millions of pilgrims. Islamic tradition holds
that it fell from Heaven to show Adam and Eve where to build an
altar...

One guy I know who picked up an Allende stone in 1969 had a strange
belief and venerated his find in his own way, all by himself, over the
years.  He somehow discovered his pristine stone would readily absorb
(can't remember if it was water or oil, but I think oil), and he
annointed it regularly with some strange fettish idea of that being
good for it; nothing too serious but he believed it enough to do it
regularly for decades.  He kept it trophy-mounted on a wooden base on
his desk for many years.  If not for a witness, and had it been taken
out of context, I wonder how the best meteoriticist might get the stone
to talk (interpret the result)?

That's an excellent image of the profile of the Camp Verde iron -
thanks for the followup ;-)

Kindest wishes
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Regine P. fips_br...@yahoo.de
To: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com; Meteorite-list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Mon, Apr 30, 2012 1:17 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pojoaque Pallisite


Other images are here:

http://spiralmemo.blogspot.de/p/blog-page.html

and here:

http://spiralmemo.blogspot.de/p/night-at-museum.html


Interesting, the handling by many somehow never occurred to me. I
always
imagined just one person treating the meteorite as one of his own kids.
Perhaps
because it was wrapped in a feather blanket and had its own grave.



- Ursprüngliche Message -

Von: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com
An: fips_br...@yahoo.de; Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
CC:
Gesendet: 16:22 Montag, 30.April 2012
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Pojoaque Pallisite

Interesting though these are likely three different types of human
weathering (wearing).

w1: Here's a nice picture of the Canyon Diablo (Camp Verde iron)

piece

in which listmembers can appreciate these comments regarding possible
handling (rubbing, perhaps along these line suggested something

similar

to a tradition of receiving sacrament (Eucharist (sp?)) some Mexican
Catholic churches when a transmuted plaster-Jesus is kissed by nearly
everyone attending lined up single file - causing wear).

http://books.google.com/books?id=xCGpmoJl2dgCpg=PA118

w2: The perceptions of wear  on an ancient, recovered find are of a
different nature than one with fresh fusion crust and flowlines plus,
over the stony olivine crystals of the Glorieta Mountain (Pojoaque
iron) piece what was claimed to be a thick, possible fresh fusion
crust.  But as you say they could show different sorts of handling,

in

a case of a 61 kilos Camp Verde, not likely to have been carried

about!



w3: As for Anoka (Havana beads), as well as the Egyptian stuff,

that's

a different type of forming and wearing than

Re: [meteorite-list] Pojoaque Pallisite

2012-04-29 Thread MexicoDoug

Hi Listers,

Paired - quite likely - It has a much more interesting history than to 
be lumped as a synonym and IMO value as a named iron in its own right:


This particular iron showed a lot of evidence of wear from human 
handling and Nininger supported Mera's suggestion that it was carried 
in a medicine pouch in Pojoaque, which makes a triangle geographically, 
roughly, with Santa Fe, Glorieta, Mountain locality and Pojoaque 
pueble.  According to the circumstances of the fine, it was found 
inside some old pottery during excavations at the Pueblo, i.e., 
protected, and exhibited beautiful flow lines and notable bluish fresh 
fusion crust, indicating it was a reasonable possibility that whoever 
found it saw it fall.  As it was found during excavations, it raises 
the possibility of using this to date the Glorieta Mountain fall.


It would be nice to know where this meteorite is now.  Did it make it 
to New Mexico's collection?  Nininger, in 1931, saw it in Santa Fe, 
specifically in the Department of Anthropology, where Mera may have 
been working.  But someone else needs to sleuth a bit further from here 
because I sure don't know where it is now, and it would be great to see 
it in its present condition ;-), as it was cut up a bit because 
Nininger and others used it to argue that Glorieta Mountain wasn't a 
siderite, but a sidero-pallasite combination as well as consolidate 
some of the names Bernd lists ... I think the paper was 1940.


Definitely a specimen with a very special, if not sacred, history ...

Kindest wishes
Doug




-Original Message-
From: Bernd V. Pauli bernd.pa...@paulinet.de
To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Sun, Apr 29, 2012 5:03 pm
Subject: [meteorite-list] Pojoaque Pallisite


Hello Jeff, Mike, David and List,

David wrote: It is indeed the synonym for Glorieta

... and only one out of several others:

Albuquerque
Canoncito
Glorieta
Pojoaque
Rio Arriba
Santa Fe
Santa Fe County
Trinity County

Cheers,

Bernd


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Re: [meteorite-list] Pojoaque Pallisite

2012-04-29 Thread MexicoDoug
 the meteorite had been carried in a medicine bag? It doesn't sound 
implausible, but what are the clues?


Hi, Regine, Carleton, Mike, Bernd, Jeff, David, Listers;

I would like to draw some attention to the carried in a medicine 
pouch since Regine asked ;-)


These guys are all with the Great Spirit now, who did the excavations, 
so we're stuck analyzing something that was contermplated in the 1920's 
with the baggage of nearly an intervening century.


It is quite possible, like many things, that this medicine pouch 
comment is a comment run amok as usual with meteorites, someone says 
something, then it takes on a life of its own due to tales getting 
taller,even among conservative scientists, unintentionally, of course, 
everyone just takes away a different idea and they follow natural 
'election'.


The original comment seems to be that it was carried as medicine, 
rather than in a medicine pouch.  While this seems to be a minor 
difference, it's not.  One involves an inference and the other is more 
of an observation.


Nininger later (1952) expounds on the comment when discussing Native 
American meteorite collectors and the medicine pounch has by then 
become alive in its own, through no one's fault.


The concept of medicine doesn't necessarily require a pouch, and may 
not even be in the hands of a medicine man, why, it just as well could 
have been a chief, or a brave warrior ... and could just as well be 
from a great deal of handling.  The observation was simply that at 
least three of the protuberances above the regmaglypts depressions were 
highly worn from what was very plausibly a soft material.  To make the 
leap to call it a pouch, or just a lot of hands ... is a good 
philosophical theme for a room full of meteorite collectors and 
archeaologists without Regine's magic powder burns evidence.  But the 
fact was, the wear was supposedly caused from a lot of handling or 
rubbing.  That said, ablation is a strange master and it would be 
very interesting to revisit this wear which formed the basis of 
the original archaeological comments.


What is for sure, apparently is that it was found inside the pottery 
and that in turn in a burial ground.  So there are some Spirits 
floating around it.  Perhaps Man  Impact Ed has a theory, it's his 
ballywick.  But we do need to see it.  Carleton kindly mentions that a 
couple of grams were at ASU, that makes sense that Nininger would take 
some.  My fear is that calling this pivotal iron just another synonym 
does no good to science if it is lost for inspection.  Apparently the 
piece weighed originally 3 ounces (about 85 g), and it was a complete 
individual subject to what was speculated to be a violent history, that 
is, after Nininger figured out how Glorieta ripped apart along of 
course with Kunz.


But not only is the mystery with the original piece, this piece is 
historical in that it was the first specimen that was used as a 
keystone to pair a pallasite fall to a siderite fall ... and help 
create the need to have a single name with synonyms ... how ironic, 
errr... palladoxical ;-)


Kindest wishes
Doug



-Original Message-
From: Regine P. fips_br...@yahoo.de
To: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com; bernd.pauli 
bernd.pa...@paulinet.de; meteorite-list 
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com

Sent: Sun, Apr 29, 2012 7:04 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pojoaque Pallisite


Hi Doug, Bernd and all,

I too would like to know where this one is being kept. What baffles me 
though,
how does one get to the conclusion the meteorite had been carried in a 
medicine
bag? It doesn't sound implausible, but what are the clues? Magic powder 
topping?

Is there any further info?


Regine



- Ursprüngliche Message -

Von: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com
An: bernd.pa...@paulinet.de; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
CC:
Gesendet: 23:54 Sonntag, 29.April 2012
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Pojoaque Pallisite

Hi Listers,

Paired - quite likely - It has a much more interesting history than 

to be
lumped

as a synonym and IMO value as a named iron in its own right:

This particular iron showed a lot of evidence of wear from human 

handling and
Nininger supported Mera's suggestion that it was carried in a 

medicine pouch
in Pojoaque, which makes a triangle geographically, roughly, with 

Santa Fe,

Glorieta, Mountain locality and Pojoaque pueble.  According to the

circumstances
of the fine, it was found inside some old pottery during excavations 

at the
Pueblo, i.e., protected, and exhibited beautiful flow lines and 

notable bluish

fresh fusion crust, indicating it was a reasonable possibility that 

whoever
found it saw it fall.  As it was found during excavations, it raises 

the

possibility of using this to date the Glorieta Mountain fall.

It would be nice to know where this meteorite is now.  Did it make it 

to New
Mexico's collection?  Nininger, in 1931, saw it in Santa Fe, 

specifically in

the Department of Anthropology, where

Re: [meteorite-list] Hunting the Coloma - Lotus video (was Sutter Mill Photos ... )

2012-04-29 Thread MexicoDoug

http://www.kcra.com/video/30973354/detail.html

Hi Ruben, Listees,

Great views of the terrain and the famous parking lot of the Lotus find.

Saw this video online of Thousands of people flocking to Coloma to 
hunt for meteorites and listmember Robert Wollard has a spot, in 
addition to I believe another listmember though it isn't clear, so I 
won't risk an error...


Thanks for the images Ruben - good luck to you and the other 75 
listfamily who are there ;-), someone please have mercy on me, I can't 
go for a bad health situation and CMs are one of my two collection 
dreams; at least I can do an anti-raindance here if it helps


Kindest wishes
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Ruben Garcia mrmeteor...@gmail.com
To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Sun, Apr 29, 2012 7:38 pm
Subject: [meteorite-list] Sutter Mill Photos


Oops! here is the correct link
http://www.mrmeteorite.com/

--
Rock On!

Ruben Garcia

Website: www.MrMeteorite.com
Articles: www.meteorite.com/blog/
Videos: www.youtube.com/profile?user=meteorfright#p/u
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Re: [meteorite-list] Jenniskens Sutter Mill Meteorite

2012-04-28 Thread MexicoDoug
Congratulations Brien, you lucky, skilled,  (fill in the blank ...) 
fortunate rasca...e... superfinder !!!


before we start naming it.

^^^

Do you know who's handling the classification and if anyone has 
submitted the specimen?


Golden wishes
Doug




-Original Message-
From: Brien Cook cont...@briencook.com
To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Sat, Apr 28, 2012 12:12 pm
Subject: [meteorite-list]  Jenniskens Sutter Mill Meteorite


Personally, I think it's too soon to be giving it a name. So far only 
fragments
have been found in Lotus and Coloma. I'd like to see where larger 
pieces are

located and a more accurate strewn field before we start naming it.



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Re: [meteorite-list] HED crater name (was Mercury's new names...)

2012-04-26 Thread MexicoDoug

Dear list,

Speaking of names, I don't recall any posting the 'official name' of 
the suspected source crater for the HED's on Vesta ...


It's ... Rheasilvia.

It's central uplift, Mount Rheasilvia (Rheasilvia Mons) is now the 
highest known mountain peak in the Solar sytem, on poor, pummeled, 
pockmarked petit planetoid Vesta.


What did it beat out (displace to #2)?  You guessed it, it kicked the 
Olympians off their acropodium: Mount Olympus (Olympia Mons), on Mars, 
a likely source crater for our igneous Martian meteorites ;-)  Vestalis 
Maxima rules, all hail!


Kindest wishes
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Ron Baalke baa...@zagami.jpl.nasa.gov
To: Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thu, Apr 26, 2012 2:29 pm
Subject: [meteorite-list] Dr. Seuss, Alvin Ailey among the Names 
Selected for 23 Mercury Craters




http://messenger.jhuapl.edu/news_room/details.php?id=219

MESSENGER Mission News
April 26, 2012

Dr. Seuss, Alvin Ailey among the Names Selected for 23 Mercury Craters

The International Astronomical Union (IAU) recently approved a proposal
from the MESSENGER Science Team to assign 23 new names to impact craters
on Mercury. The IAU has been the arbiter of planetary and satellite
nomenclature since its inception in 1919. In keeping with the
established naming theme for craters on Mercury, all of the newly
designated features are named after famous deceased artists, musicians,
or authors.

The newly named craters include:

   * Ailey, for Alvin Ailey (1931-1989), an American choreographer
 credited with popularizing modern dance and revolutionizing
 African-American participation in 20th century concert dance.

   * Aksakov, for Sergey Aksakov (1791-1859), a 19th-century Russian
 literary figure remembered for his semi-autobiographical tales of
 family life, as well as for his books on hunting and fishing.

   * Balanchine, for George Balanchine (1904-1983), one of the 20th
 century's most famous choreographers, a developer of ballet in the
 United States and the co-founder and ballet master of New York
 City Ballet; he wrote more than 400 ballets.

   * Ellington, for Edward Kennedy Duke Ellington (1899-1974), an
 American composer, pianist, and big-band leader who, over the
 course of a 50-year career, wrote more than 1,000 compositions. A
 major figure in the history of jazz, he also wrote music that
 stretched into other genres, including blues, gospel, film scores,
 popular, and classical.

   * Faulkner, for William Faulkner (1897-1962), considered one of
 the most important writers of U.S. Southern literature. A Nobel
 Prize laureate, he worked in a variety of media but is best known
 for his novels and short stories.

   * Fonteyn, for Margot Fonteyn (1919-1991), an English ballerina
 regarded as one of the greatest classical ballet dancers of all
 time. She spent her entire career as a dancer with the Royal
 Ballet, eventually being appointed Prima Ballerina Assoluta of
 the company by Queen Elizabeth II.

   * Grainger, for Percy Grainger (1882-1961), an Australian-born
 composer, arranger, and pianist who, during the course of a
 65-year career, played a prominent role in the revival of interest
 in British folk music in the early years of the 20th century.

   * Grotell, for Maija Grotell (1899-1973), a Finland-born ceramist
 and teacher known for her experiments in glaze technology and
 sometimes described as the mother of American ceramics.

   * Henri, for Robert Henri (1865-1929), an American painter and
 teacher. He was a leading figure of the Ashcan School, an early
 20th century artistic movement best known for works portraying
 scenes of daily life in New York's poorer neighborhoods.

   * Holst, for Gustav Theodore Holst (1874-1934), an English
 composer most famous for his orchestral suite, 'The Planets.

   * Kofi, for Vincent Akwete Kofi (1923-1974), a Ghanaian sculptor
 who borrowed extensively from traditional African concepts of
 stylization, emphasis, distortion and symbolism.

   * Lismer, for Arthur Lismer (1885-1969), a Canadian painter and
 member of the Group of Seven, a team of artists famous for its
 paintings inspired by the Canadian landscape and for initiating
 the first major Canadian national art movement.

   * Magritte, for René Magritte (1898-1967), a Belgian artist and
 one of the most prominent Surrealist painters, whose works were
 characterized by particular symbols, including the female torso,
 the bowler hat, the castle, the rock, and the window.

   * Mendelssohn, for Jakob Ludwig Felix Mendelssohn (1809-1847), a
 German composer, pianist, organist, and conductor of the early
 Romantic period. Among his most famous works is Overture to A
 Midsummer Night's Dream, which includes the Wedding March.

   * Nabokov, for Vladimir Nabokov (1899-1977), a 

Re: [meteorite-list] Moon rocks Cases and outcomes

2012-04-16 Thread MexicoDoug

so we better pass an all encompassing law against ownership by anyone
other than the US Government et.al. No one in the history of this list
was able to ever find that enactment and I have asked NASA repeatedly

Hi Elton,

I would conjecture that no such law exists.  It would be Draconian or 
unconstitutional at best, in the USA.  Theft laws are however are 
perfectly applicable and established, and are resolved by the 
judiciary,. not a self appointed do gooder policeman who thinks he can 
say NASA US Government or FBI and scare anyone into a trembling 
pile of jelly.  American should take pride in the fact that the little 
guy can stand up and be heard if he/she wants to.  To me, looking for a 
precedent is a non-issue, at least in the same sense for looking for 
one on whether someone can own a pre-treaty Antarctic meteorite.  Each 
case must be submitted to the judicial authority competent for its 
resolution: case by case, as would any theft law.  In the USA, it takes 
special legislation to enact emminent domain laws, which to my 
knowledge is the only route to depriving any citizen of his priovate 
property duly acquired.  Any circuimvention of the judicial review 
process ... is un-American.


The same applies to meteorites, and outside the national boundary of 
origin a different set of laws apply, meaning that if any locally 
authority government official, recipient of a moon plaque, e.g., in 
Timbucktu sells their plaque, US laws do not apply.  It gets murky if 
it crosses back into the US, or is abandoned in Antarctica.  ;-)


My two centavos
kindest wishes\
Doug



-Original Message-
From: MstrEman mstre...@gmail.com
To: D Miller danny...@aol.com
Cc: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Mon, Apr 16, 2012 12:23 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Moon rocks Cases and outcomes


This my recollection about the dust history.
I do not recall the story about accidental exposure but it is as likely 
as not.


Other than Bean's claim there were two incidences of dust escaping
government control.
One was the Hasselblad film magazine which was dropped into the dust
and was the one talked about in this story.  The other was the dry
cleaner in Coco Beach that had been awarded the contract to clean NASA
space suits.

The magazine was returned under purchase/work order to Hasselblad for
inspection and refurbishment as necessary. The dust was collected with
scotch tape as I recall. The purchase order did not include the
requirement for Hasslblad to return anything other than the hardware.
I do not remember the entire exchange but pretty much like Obama
asking pretty please give us our drone back Hasslblads and their
subcontractor said Nicht.

About this time congress decided ooops the samples could get pilfered
so we better pass an all encompassing law against ownership by anyone
other than the US Government et.al. No one in the history of this list
was able to ever find that enactment and I have asked NASA repeatedly
under Ignored FOIA to cite chapter and verse where private ownership
is disallowed.(sic)  I believe the US code or law says title remains
with the Government.

I believe-- armed with this new law, NASA went back to German court
where the German law regarding retroactive laws was not enforceable
and the contract stood as submitted and was fulfilled by
Hassleblad--OR so I read somewhere in collage in an international law
case study.

The enterprizing dry cleaner realized far ahead of NASA that dust
would be coming back and he could reap a fortune in resales if he got
the dry cleaning contract.  He low balled the contract and bidded his
time through all the early Apollo missions doing as contracted:
waiting on 11 and 12 and might have even been into cleaning 14s suits
when NASA got wind and came looking for the dust--which again had not
been addressed in the contract.  The dry cleaner lost in Federal
Court.  The Government cited the above law/regulations and exceptional
research potential that gave the public overriding interest. ( I did
not know that NASA ever has conducted the impact of moon dust on body
hair, sweat and urine mixtures) but that I understand was what
happened to the dry cleaning dust.

The scotch tape specimens were sold at a foreign auction several years
ago and was snipped into smaller slivers for subsequent sale.  I don't
know what became of the slivers but did see a webpage offering them
for sale-- POR: Price on request.

I may (or may not --wink wink) have a sample from a certain Soviet
mission return capsule that went to the surface of the moon and
returned to earth.  The ownership of said sample was in limbo owing to
the reorganization of the legal system post Soviet Era and at the time
of purchase, Russian law was silent on former soviet property.
However the provenance was back to the Soviet pilot who the sample was
officially awarded the cloth.

If anyone does find the case law, US Title/chapter or in the CFRs 
please share.

It may be that I 

[meteorite-list] A funny paper ... with applications (maybe)!

2012-04-16 Thread MexicoDoug

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/bib_query?arXiv:1204.0162

Dear List;

Just saw the above paper, which I'm convinced somewhere has a flaw, but 
I don't have a peaceful moment to go through it;


Basically it says,

If you are a policeman in a traffic-trap observing a clever physicist 
approaching a stop sign in his car who sneezes: because the car is 
somewhat distant, your mind is really not interpreting its speed, but 
rather its angular velocity.  The conclusion is that any minor 
distraction such as another car or bird, etc., can create a major 
misinterpretation to the brain which is tricked into filling in details 
to make sense of what you saw, but did not observe with absolute 
perfection.


The author claims special recognition by the government of California 
for his innovative analysis, which we expected to accept an official 
reviewer of physics papers.


Now, if the paper is actually not in error (which I am not saying is 
the case), it if you replace the policeman with an meteor observer, and 
the stop sign with the sudden deceleration upon hitting the ablation 
zone of the atmosphere ... and then disappearence into dark flight/fall,


... it would be fun to compare the results and see if his paper would 
have been more interesting had he been in a shooting star going 
incandescent and what the perception where it landed in relation to the 
meteoric counterpart of the stop sign.


Although it was posted on what in many countries is called The Day of 
the Innocents, April 1, and titled Proof of Innocence, in the USA 
the day is known as April Fool's, a quite disagreeable connotation, 
there may actually be something to it?  You can always think of the 
illusion the brain interprets when looking up a train track, when two 
rails in parallel instead look like they converge into a point ... the 
same illusion that give us a meteor radiant.  Now here's another 
practical example to compare, if true.


Kindest wishes
Doug
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Re: [meteorite-list] OT: For the Geologists and Math Wizards!

2012-04-14 Thread MexicoDoug

Jim,

In a practical sense, this is quite possible since there are more 
possibilities, where your question could be taken as too ambiguous.  
Specifics - what are you really after?  I'm thinking if this relates to 
meteorites you might have some concretions in mind as well, or perhaps 
melting and there are rarely just two minerals present in nature.  
When I mixed the concrete to fill the hole in the driveway, the 
hydration (a chemical modification) causes a structural change as well 
which contributes to a volume change, and it was certainly more slurry 
than the sum of the cement and sand, to adjust for the water.  Some 
hydrations are reversible and others aren't.  In nature for the 
organized mind, things usually go to hell in a handbasket since it is 
usually an open, complex system where everything and then some goes.


If you like math, some engineers probably are very concerned about 
shrinkage or expansion of concretions for the times we drive over 
bridges, etc:


maybe this gives further insight, I googled blindly:
http://www.byg.dtu.dk/upload/institutter/byg/nyheder/trb-06-1571-as%20submitted%20final.pdf

If two minerals are melted together, it is quite possible they will 
form a new crystal or amorphous structure, perhaps not even a clear 
chemical modification, but rather just reordering on a molecular scale 
that don't result in voids, but do result in a new density without 
adding gases, etc.  I guess it might be a new mineral, but I'm not sure 
I know the precise definition of a rock or mineral so I'd think of it 
this way.


Kindest wishes
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Chris Peterson c...@alumni.caltech.edu
To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Sat, Apr 14, 2012 2:08 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT: For the Geologists and Math Wizards!


If the two combine as some sort of conglomerate (like a breccia), and
the combination doesn't result in voids, then the bulk density can't be
lower than the density of the lowest density material. But if the two
combine chemically, resulting in an alloy or in the formation of
different minerals, certainly the bulk density could be lower than
either of the constituents (because you could have an increase in 
volume).


Chris

***
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com

On 4/13/2012 9:04 PM, Jim Wooddell wrote:

Hi all!

I have a question that relates to meteorites...sort of.


If I have two minerals that are combined that have two different
densities, could the bulk density ever be lower the density of the
mineral with the lowest density?

Examples (to make it easy) Mineral 1 = 3g/cc Mineral 2 = 15g/cc

IOWs could I ever have a density lower than 3g/cc???

If yes, can I please see the math?

Thanks

Jim


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Re: [meteorite-list] OT: For the Geologists and Math Wizards!

2012-04-14 Thread MexicoDoug

Hey Jim,

Gold, huh?  Break of a quarter sized piece and send it to me.  I don't 
return samples though because of the million I receive every day ;-)


Kidding aside, I guess there are nifty formulas floating around that 
make assumptions on the matrix composition and that you've long since 
figured out that your rock doesn't fi the composition assumptions.  If 
you have to know and that is more important than the whole specimen as 
a collectible or memento, ah the meteorite conflict rears its ugly head 
- I have to cut it to know what it is...


My thought would be make a nice slice right down the middle to make two 
matching halves you can polish for aesthetics.  Look at it for what 
that tells you as to the gold aggregation in it.  Maybe save the 
cutting dust to check for gold content of thar.  Then, check the 
density of each half to see if they agree.  If they don't that will be 
a clue that something's up with the rock.  Or you could just keep it as 
is to enjoy and imagine it as you wish!  Anyway good luck  ;-0  -doug



-Original Message-
From: Jim Wooddell nf11...@npgcable.com
To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Sat, Apr 14, 2012 11:28 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT: For the Geologists and Math Wizards!


Hi Doug and all!

Thanks for the answers.

My thought was, prior to posting the questions here, that you could not 
have

a calculation that would result in a density less than the less dense
material, if the formula was correct where you have known densities of 
two

specific minerals.
To add to that here, with melting or morphing or whatever, I contend 
you
could not have a calculation that would result in a lower density than 
any
of the known densities of any known minerals or mixtures there of.  
However,

if there are unknowns, then I do see where is it very possible where it
would totally hose the results.
I stated that in another forum and then thought about it for a while 
and
thought, Oh Shxx, I had better ask people way more knowledgeable than 
I.

I put the OT in the subject line cause it may or may not relate to
meteoritesI just knew some great minds are on this list.
Specifically, I have a 65g rock with a lot of gold in it.  While trying 
to
determine the percentage of gold in it, this particular rock is 
breaking all
the rules of engagement...to the point I am about ready to take a 
hammer to
it and simply do it the old fashion way with mercuryexcept I don't 
have

any mercury!  That would be the part that is totally off topic for this
list...except I found the gold when meteorite hunting!  Using some of 
these
wiz bang gold formulas (found on gold forums) I am coming up with 
negative
numbers and one with minus 130% gold!  I do not know how on earth I 
could be
off by that amount using any of the areas known minerals or 
combinations of.
Driving me nuts!  It is such an awesome specimen, I hate to take a 
hammer to

it...but two days of number crunching and testing is not panning out.

Jim



- Original Message -
From: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com
To: c...@alumni.caltech.edu; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2012 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] OT: For the Geologists and Math Wizards!



Jim,

In a practical sense, this is quite possible since there are more
possibilities, where your question could be taken as too ambiguous.
Specifics - what are you really after?  I'm thinking if this relates 

to
meteorites you might have some concretions in mind as well, or 

perhaps
melting and there are rarely just two minerals present in nature.  

When
I mixed the concrete to fill the hole in the driveway, the hydration 

(a

chemical modification) causes a structural change as well which
contributes to a volume change, and it was certainly more slurry than 

the
sum of the cement and sand, to adjust for the water.  Some hydrations 

are
reversible and others aren't.  In nature for the organized mind, 

things
usually go to hell in a handbasket since it is usually an open, 

complex

system where everything and then some goes.

If you like math, some engineers probably are very concerned about
shrinkage or expansion of concretions for the times we drive over 

bridges,

etc:

maybe this gives further insight, I googled blindly:


http://www.byg.dtu.dk/upload/institutter/byg/nyheder/trb-06-1571-as%20submitted%20final.pdf


If two minerals are melted together, it is quite possible they will 

form a

new crystal or amorphous structure, perhaps not even a clear chemical
modification, but rather just reordering on a molecular scale that 

don't
result in voids, but do result in a new density without adding gases, 

etc.
I guess it might be a new mineral, but I'm not sure I know the 

precise

definition of a rock or mineral so I'd think of it this way.

Kindest wishes
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Chris Peterson c...@alumni.caltech.edu
To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent

Re: [meteorite-list] Bicentenary of the meteorite of Toulouse

2012-04-12 Thread MexicoDoug
Hello Renaud, and all the kind listers who have been making all sorts 
of comments on this thread.  I hope the extra publicity gets a few more 
motivated to go to the Toulouse exhibit.


There is another odd tie to Toulouse, here in the USA can relate to.  
Meteorites seemed to be harbingers of a lot of Napoleons doings.  
Precisely two years to the day after the meteoritical fall in 
Napoleonic Toulouse 10 April 1812, the British led a force 10 April 
1814 in an epic meteoric irradication of Napoleon's empire in a key 
battle there.  Then those same high-stepping drum beating Brits that 
did this had management push its luck straight to American shores 
thinking if they could defeat Napoleon, that we would be shoo-fly pie 
and apple pan dowdy.  Well, unfortunately for them, our gator eaters 
avenged Napoleon's last stand here and as the oral history relates the 
shameful fate of these would be double conquerers in Napoleon's gift to 
Thomas Jefferson:


So we grabbed an alligator and we fought another round
We filled his head with cannon balls, and powdered his behind
And when we touched the powder off the gator lost his mind
Yeah, they ran through the briars
And they ran through the brambles
And they ran through the bushes
Where the rabbit couldn't go

(and rabbits can slip into the worse raspberry  poison ivy patch!)

And thus Napoleon's defeat was avenged hot Jambalaya style ...

OK, that was a great break during this lull, like the eye of a storm I 
can feel in my bones a whopper of a meteorite fall is nearing on the 
event horizon ...


Couldn't find the article in the 1836 antiquarian journal posted for 
the toadstorm but I got lost looking (page #?) - it was the table of 
contents that opened and I'm a slow reader ;-(


The jungle story via tropical photos was fun, thanks; and the Frog 
festival (which is just a 3-4 hour drive down the highway from here; 
comments on eating frogs; forgive me for assuming that in France all 
would be eating them fried like us, I see butter and garlic is 
preferred by some of our refined listmembers, but in these territories 
thanks to the Cajuns we like them fried and eat them with hush puppies 
and chitlins, which are misbehaved baby dogs and chitenous aggregations 
for those unfamiliar with other delicious exotics we eat down here 
(besides alligators and iguanas, which are all subnstituted for chicken 
when tourists without their knowledge since you can't tell the 
difference)


Since I can't go to France, the whole country is invited to Florida for 
some monster escargot that is a traditional Florida dish, only these 
snails are as big as human heads (we call 'em conch fritters - of 
course fried) and they combine well with Alligator tail steaks.


...and for anyone who would wonder wtf this has with meteorites, beats 
me but one hypothesis is that everyone interested in meteorites 
expresses a bottled up sense of adventure inside, just waiting to 
explode out.  When we look at meteorites, it is to experience through 
the senses first hand the different flavors developed in the Solar 
crockpot.  We chase a meteorite fall, whether with boots on the ground 
or a silver pick on eBay; it is that same emotion of seeking out what 
is different, whether it be a kolache, boudin ball, haggis (which I 
understand are little burrowing animals the Scots turn inside out and 
eat raw according to a bonnie Scottish lassie), Cui, and all kinds of 
interesting stuff.


Have a great time in Toulouse to all at the exhibit and thanks for the 
first link!


Kindest wishes
Doug


-Original Message-
From: rm31 r...@free.fr
To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Wed, Apr 11, 2012 10:47 am
Subject: [meteorite-list] Bicentenary of the meteorite of Toulouse


Hi List,

First pictures and links to local tv news here:

http://meteorites.superforum.fr/t4834p15-exposition-bicentenaire-de-chute-de-la-meteorite-de-toulouse

More to come!

Renaud

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Re: [meteorite-list] Bicentenary of the meteorite of Toulouse

2012-04-12 Thread MexicoDoug

Hi Anne !

Certainly there was a Battle of Toulouse ... on April 10, 1814 ... and 
Napoleon was still in all his splendour in charming Pari; he actually 
affirmed his defeat on April 13.  So, tomorrow is the 198th anniversary 
of this treaty.  The fiery tempered ex-emperor was sent home and 
arrived in his luxurious banishment island kingdom until May 1814.


Strategically the menace of the troups in South (and everywhere else) 
were the meat and potatos on this fine Tolosan landscape that delivered 
part of the punch which caused the abdication, and no one knew when the 
battle was started that the actual combat was unnecessary, since 
communications weren't that fast.  But though the battle was 
unnecessary, the superior military pressure was the driver.


Battle of Toulouse strategic map:
http://www.miklianmaps.com/rousseau-map-of-the-battle-of-toulouse-1853-p-2111.html

Painting:
http://napoleononline.ca/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Battle-of-Toulouse.jpg

Some guy was in Toulouse to videotape the battle ;-)\]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4SPn4kF-A8t=4m30s

Brief background:
http://www.napoleonguide.com/battle_toulouse.htm

all this, two years to the day - after the meteorite fell there ...

Kindest wishes
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Anne Black impact...@aol.com
To: mexicodoug mexicod...@aim.com
Sent: Thu, Apr 12, 2012 3:32 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bicentenary of the meteorite of Toulouse


Hhhuuuhhh


Napoleonic Toulouse 10 April 1812, the British led a force 10 April
1814 in an epic meteoric irradication of Napoleon's empire in a key
battle there

What are you talking about Doug?
 
There is no battle of Toulouse on April 10 1814.
Napoleon abdicated in Fontainebleau on April 7, 1814, so on the 10th he 
was on his way to the island of Elba.
The final battle, key if you wish, was in Waterloo, in present days 
Belgium just outside Bruxelles, on June 18, 1815. 

Goodnight
 

Anne M. Black
www.IMPACTIKA.com
impact...@aol.com
Vice-President of IMCA
www.IMCA.cc



-Original Message-
From: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com
To: rm31 r...@free.fr; meteorite-list 
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com

Sent: Thu, Apr 12, 2012 12:56 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Bicentenary of the meteorite of Toulouse


Hello Renaud, and all the kind listers who have been making all sorts
of comments on this thread.  I hope the extra publicity gets a few more
motivated to go to the Toulouse exhibit.

There is another odd tie to Toulouse, here in the USA can relate to.
Meteorites seemed to be harbingers of a lot of Napoleons doings.
Precisely two years to the day after the meteoritical fall in
Napoleonic Toulouse 10 April 1812, the British led a force 10 April
1814 in an epic meteoric irradication of Napoleon's empire in a key
battle there.  Then those same high-stepping drum beating Brits that
did this had management push its luck straight to American shores
thinking if they could defeat Napoleon, that we would be shoo-fly pie
and apple pan dowdy.  Well, unfortunately for them, our gator eaters
avenged Napoleon's last stand here and as the oral history relates the
shameful fate of these would be double conquerers in Napoleon's gift to
Thomas Jefferson:

So we grabbed an alligator and we fought another round
We filled his head with cannon balls, and powdered his behind
And when we touched the powder off the gator lost his mind
Yeah, they ran through the briars
And they ran through the brambles
And they ran through the bushes
Where the rabbit couldn't go

(and rabbits can slip into the worse raspberry  poison ivy patch!)

And thus Napoleon's defeat was avenged hot Jambalaya style ...

OK, that was a great break during this lull, like the eye of a storm I
can feel in my bones a whopper of a meteorite fall is nearing on the
event horizon ...

Couldn't find the article in the 1836 antiquarian journal posted for
the toadstorm but I got lost looking (page #?) - it was the table of
contents that opened and I'm a slow reader ;-(

The jungle story via tropical photos was fun, thanks; and the Frog
festival (which is just a 3-4 hour drive down the highway from here;
comments on eating frogs; forgive me for assuming that in France all
would be eating them fried like us, I see butter and garlic is
preferred by some of our refined listmembers, but in these territories
thanks to the Cajuns we like them fried and eat them with hush puppies
and chitlins, which are misbehaved baby dogs and chitenous aggregations
for those unfamiliar with other delicious exotics we eat down here
(besides alligators and iguanas, which are all subnstituted for chicken
when tourists without their knowledge since you can't tell the
difference)

Since I can't go to France, the whole country is invited to Florida for
some monster escargot that is a traditional Florida dish, only these
snails are as big as human heads (we call 'em conch fritters - of
course fried) and they combine well with Alligator tail steaks.

...and for anyone

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