[meteorite-list] Re: Recent Flash Floods

2003-09-11 Thread Robert Verish
Hello List,

Over the past several weeks I've had the opportunity
to visit 14 dry lakes in CA and NV.  I'm here to
report that I have some good news.  All of the 14 dry
lakes that I recon'd were in typically good shape
with only a couple having experienced marginal
flooding and minor resurfacing.  None of the lakes
experienced total inundation.  And only two lakes were
still wet with standing water (mostly pond-sized, and
close to the shore that is leeward of the summertime
predominant wind direction).

So, for those people who were changing their travel
plans, because of recent news reports about
flash-flooding, I hope this message lessens your
concerns.   

That's not to say that the news reports were
exaggerated.  Clearly, the inundation of Zzyzx was at
least a 25-year flood, caused by a cloudburst that
was localized over a single dry wash.  My original
message was a request for information in order to tell
whether any of these storms were producing 50-year, or
up to 500-year, flood effects in these basins.

Here are some images I took of large rocks on a dry
lake, the only evidence remaining of the catastrophic
effects of a 50- to 500-year flood surge:

http://www.geocities.com/bolidechaser/drylakes/ca030905.jpg

I've coined the term rock-garden to describe this
unique type of (boulder-sized) lag gravel.  The finer
clasts (pebbles, sand, silt, and mud) have long since
been dispersed across the lake by succeeding
high-water wave action:

http://www.geocities.com/bolidechaser/drylakes/ca030905b.jpg

Again, thanks to those who shared with me their pre- 
post-flood observations.

Bob V. 


[meteorite-list] Re: Recent Flash Floods 
Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Fri, 22 Aug 2003 09:25:55 -0700 (PDT) 

On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 12:30:11 -0700 (PDT) 
Robert Verish

This most recent influx of moisture 
into the deserts has caused severe 
flash-flooding.  Up until now, the
dry lakes have been overly wet with 
standing water, but flash-flooding 
has the energy to bring large volumes 
of mud and rock with that water, out 
into the middle of these playas and 
bury any promising surface with a new 
layer of sediment. 

First, the flooding is not going to carry
any rock of any size into the playa. 
== message truncated ==




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[meteorite-list] Re: Recent Flash Floods

2003-09-11 Thread Robert Verish
Hello List,

Over the past several weeks I've had the opportunity
to visit 14 dry lakes in CA and NV.  I'm here to
report that I have some good news.  All of the 14 dry
lakes that I recon'd were in typically good shape
with only a couple having experienced marginal
flooding and minor resurfacing.  None of the lakes
experienced total inundation.  And only two lakes were
still wet with standing water (mostly pond-sized, and
close to the shore that is leeward of the summertime
predominant wind direction).

So, for those people who were changing their travel
plans, because of recent news reports about
flash-flooding, I hope this message lessens your
concerns.   

That's not to say that the news reports were
exaggerated.  Clearly, the inundation of Zzyzx was at
least a 25-year flood, caused by a cloudburst that
was localized over a single dry wash.  My original
message was a request for information in order to tell
whether any of these storms were producing 50-year, or
up to 500-year, flood effects in these basins.

Here are some images I took of large rocks on a dry
lake, the only evidence remaining of the catastrophic
effects of a 50- to 500-year flood surge:

http://www.geocities.com/bolidechaser/drylakes/ca030905.jpg

I've coined the term rock-garden to describe this
unique type of (boulder-sized) lag gravel.  The finer
clasts (pebbles, sand, silt, and mud) have long since
been dispersed across the lake by succeeding
high-water wave action:

http://www.geocities.com/bolidechaser/drylakes/ca030905b.jpg

Again, thanks to those who shared with me their pre- 
post-flood observations.

Bob V. 


[meteorite-list] Re: Recent Flash Floods 
Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Fri, 22 Aug 2003 09:25:55 -0700 (PDT) 

On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 12:30:11 -0700 (PDT) 
Robert Verish

This most recent influx of moisture 
into the deserts has caused severe 
flash-flooding.  Up until now, the
dry lakes have been overly wet with 
standing water, but flash-flooding 
has the energy to bring large volumes 
of mud and rock with that water, out 
into the middle of these playas and 
bury any promising surface with a new 
layer of sediment. 

First, the flooding is not going to carry
any rock of any size into the playa. 
== message truncated ==




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Re: [meteorite-list] Re: Recent Flash Floods

2003-09-11 Thread moni waiblinger-seabridge
Hi Bob,

nice images of the *rock garden*!

i am still trying to see which one of the images show the meteorites.
You seemed to forget to describe for us where to look for them!  :-)
Sternengruss, Moni

ps. i remember you sending this along with the Nevada Meteorite Picture of 
the Day.
Explanation: Can't find the meteorite? Here's a hint - look down directly 
beside the driver-side front door for a small black rock.




From: Robert Verish [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Meteorite-list Meteoritecentral [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [meteorite-list] Re: Recent Flash Floods
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 14:18:28 -0700 (PDT)
Hello List,

Over the past several weeks I've had the opportunity
to visit 14 dry lakes in CA and NV.  I'm here to
report that I have some good news.  All of the 14 dry
lakes that I recon'd were in typically good shape
with only a couple having experienced marginal
flooding and minor resurfacing.  None of the lakes
experienced total inundation.  And only two lakes were
still wet with standing water (mostly pond-sized, and
close to the shore that is leeward of the summertime
predominant wind direction).
So, for those people who were changing their travel
plans, because of recent news reports about
flash-flooding, I hope this message lessens your
concerns.
That's not to say that the news reports were
exaggerated.  Clearly, the inundation of Zzyzx was at
least a 25-year flood, caused by a cloudburst that
was localized over a single dry wash.  My original
message was a request for information in order to tell
whether any of these storms were producing 50-year, or
up to 500-year, flood effects in these basins.
Here are some images I took of large rocks on a dry
lake, the only evidence remaining of the catastrophic
effects of a 50- to 500-year flood surge:
http://www.geocities.com/bolidechaser/drylakes/ca030905.jpg

I've coined the term rock-garden to describe this
unique type of (boulder-sized) lag gravel.  The finer
clasts (pebbles, sand, silt, and mud) have long since
been dispersed across the lake by succeeding
high-water wave action:
http://www.geocities.com/bolidechaser/drylakes/ca030905b.jpg

Again, thanks to those who shared with me their pre- 
post-flood observations.
Bob V.


[meteorite-list] Re: Recent Flash Floods
Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Fri, 22 Aug 2003 09:25:55 -0700 (PDT)
On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 12:30:11 -0700 (PDT)
Robert Verish
This most recent influx of moisture
into the deserts has caused severe
flash-flooding.  Up until now, the
dry lakes have been overly wet with
standing water, but flash-flooding
has the energy to bring large volumes
of mud and rock with that water, out
into the middle of these playas and
bury any promising surface with a new
layer of sediment.
First, the flooding is not going to carry
any rock of any size into the playa.
== message truncated ==


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[meteorite-list] Re: Recent Flash Floods

2003-08-22 Thread Paul
On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 12:30:11 -0700 (PDT) 
Robert Verish

This most recent influx of moisture 
into the deserts has caused severe 
flash-flooding.  Up until now, the
dry lakes have been overly wet with 
standing water, but flash-flooding 
has the energy to bring large volumes 
of mud and rock with that water, out 
into the middle of these playas and 
bury any promising surface with a new 
layer of sediment. 

First, the flooding is not going carry
any rock of any size into the playa. 
Any rock, except for pumice, of any 
size is going to drop out along the 
edges of the playa lake. Just the finer-
grained sediments, i.e. mostly silt and
clay will get carried out into the playa.
Along the edges of any playa, there 
might be a substantial accumulation of
sediments. However, the actual thickness
of accumulation will drastically decrease
towards the interior of any lake bed to 
the point where it can be quite thin.

Finally, the deposition of sediment is
not altogether a bad thing. Any of the 
clutter and garbage that has accumulated 
on the playa lake surfaces because of 
human activity should be buried, in a 
some cases just awhile, giving the 
meteorite hunter a clean surface on 
which a person can more easily find 
any meteorite falls after the lake 
dries out.

I qualify my statements with awhile 
because, in some lake beds, the 
pedoturbation of the lake sediments 
after the lake bed dries out might 
cause larger pieces of rock, older
meteorites, and human debris to 
resurface in the next decade or so 
if they are not too deeply buried.
Also, after a lake dries out, wind
action can significantly erode and
move any silt, clay,or fine sand that
might accumulated during these floods
and also expose, in time, objects
buried outside of the lake margins. 
Again, in time, some of stuff that 
was buried by these floods within the 
lake beds away from its margins will 
start to resurface in the next few 
years as wind erodes the new lake 
sediments and deflates the lake surface.

Yours,

Paul
Baton Rouge, LA

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[meteorite-list] Re: Recent Flash Floods

2003-08-22 Thread Robert Verish
First, I'd like to point out those areas in which we
agree.  Essentially, we agree on all points.

The main point that we both agree upon is that there
will be a new layer of sediment.  I wasn't specific
about the coarseness or the sorting of that sediment. 
And we both agree that it will take years for that
layer to deflate and exhume (or pedoturbate, I
really like that term:-) the original rocks (to
include the meteorites).

That is my concern or interest.  And that was the
point of my original question.  Which lakes have been
severely inundated?  Which lake beds have been
compromised?  Which dry lakes will I be wasting my
time (for the next few years) if I were searching for
meteorites? 

The minor points that we may disagree upon are of
little concern to me.  What concerns me more is
whether I can CONTINUE to bring home those meteorites.
:-)
Bob V.


[meteorite-list] Re: Recent Flash Floods 
Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Fri, 22 Aug 2003 09:25:55 -0700 (PDT) 


On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 12:30:11 -0700 (PDT) 
Robert Verish

This most recent influx of moisture 
into the deserts has caused severe 
flash-flooding.  Up until now, the
dry lakes have been overly wet with 
standing water, but flash-flooding 
has the energy to bring large volumes 
of mud and rock with that water, out 
into the middle of these playas and 
bury any promising surface with a new 
layer of sediment. 

First, the flooding is not going carry
any rock of any size into the playa. 
Any rock, except for pumice, of any 
size is going to drop out along the 
edges of the playa lake. Just the finer-
grained sediments, i.e. mostly silt and
clay will get carried out into the playa.
Along the edges of any playa, there 
might be a substantial accumulation of
sediments. However, the actual thickness
of accumulation will drastically decrease
towards the interior of any lake bed to 
the point where it can be quite thin.

Finally, the deposition of sediment is
not altogether a bad thing. Any of the 
clutter and garbage that has accumulated 
on the playa lake surfaces because of 
human activity should be buried, in a 
some cases just awhile, giving the 
meteorite hunter a clean surface on 
which a person can more easily find 
any meteorite falls after the lake 
dries out.

I qualify my statements with awhile 
because, in some lake beds, the 
pedoturbation of the lake sediments 
after the lake bed dries out might 
cause larger pieces of rock, older
meteorites, and human debris to 
resurface in the next decade or so 
if they are not too deeply buried.
Also, after a lake dries out, wind
action can significantly erode and
move any silt, clay,or fine sand that
might accumulated during these floods
and also expose, in time, objects
buried outside of the lake margins. 
Again, in time, some of stuff that 
was buried by these floods within the 
lake beds away from its margins will 
start to resurface in the next few 
years as wind erodes the new lake 
sediments and deflates the lake surface.

Yours,

Paul
Baton Rouge, LA

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[meteorite-list] Re: Recent Flash Floods

2003-08-21 Thread Robert Verish
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-rain21aug21003423,1,5097808.story?coll=la-headlines-california

Thanks to everyone who responded to me with their
eye-witness accounts.

It appears that Mother Nature is very quickly giving
back, that which she so very slowly has been taking
away. 

Bob V.


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