Re: [meteorite-list] Auction, Bash and All
Anita, and all, As posted by Michael on August 3... This coming Tucson Meteorite Auction will be held in the Same location as the last several years on Saturday, Feb. 9, 2013 His entire announcement is pasted below. Haven't heard anything on the B-day Bash, but isn't it traditionally on theWednesday prior to the auction? Geoff rarely drops in here, but perhaps his esteemed twin can chime in. ;^) See you there! Linton Dear fellow List members, This coming Tucson Meteorite Auction will be held in the Same location as the last several years on Saturday, Feb. 9, 2013. http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/AuctionTucson2013.html First, I would like to thank all of you for your past patronage in The Tucson Meteorite Auctions of the past. I appreciate it very much. Unfortunately the cost of putting on the auction has increased So significantly in the last several years that I have been walking a Narrow line just to stay in the black on these events, let alone make any money from them. On occasion, it has even cost me - after hundreds Of hours of prep (the on line catalog is quite time consuming)and money Up front. As you are probably aware, most auctions charge at least 25% Consignment fees while 35% is rapidly becoming the norm. In short, I must raise my consignment fee to 15% (for items submitted by Sept. 1) to be certain I will break even. In addition, most auctions now have a Buyers' Premium of 15% At least and often more. I will be holding that to 10%. I already have 15 items up and a personal collection of 17 pallasites and 38 other meteorites on the way - in the mail to me NOW As soon as they arrive I will get them photographed and listed in the On line catalog. That will make 70 lots from the get go. SEE HERE: http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/AuctionTucson2013.html Those who would like to submit items, please contact me off list. I hope you all will be continuing your involvement - I would certainly love to see this auction continue as the joyful event it has become as part of the overall Tucson Show experience for the meteorite community. Thanks, Michael - Original Message - From: Anita Westlake anitawestl...@att.net To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, December 03, 2012 8:29 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Bash and All Apologies in advance if this was already announced, but I'm looking for info on the Birthday Bash and the Auction. Dates, times and locations please. Need to make my flight reservations... Thanks much, Anita __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Questions
What a hoot! Yinan Wang's coherent explanation of auction house operations should satisfy the complaints of any potential seller, or buyer. I can add to his descriptions by mentioning consignor's can set a minimum to protect themselves in most situations. That being the case,the auction company has a risk that not enough items will sell in order to cover costs and profits, so they may charge additional fees to cover that exposure. What is a hoot.. is reading the whinings of our professional dealers claiming auction house greediness when they themselves practice the same techniques. I don't hear them shedding an ounce of compassion for the newbie's they sell .25 cent a gram OCs to for $5.00 a gram. Auction houses are like used car salesman..they prefer to do business with the uninformed and emotionally driven buyer. I know because I earned my living in both fields of endeavor. Count Deiro INCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Yinan Wang veom...@gmail.com Sent: Aug 4, 2012 11:08 PM To: Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com Cc: METEORITE LIST meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Questions I'm putting in my two cents on the pros of auctions; since I've been a consignor, buyer, and an employee in major auctions. Reasons to consign: One of the main reasons to consign something to a large auction house is that you have the potential to get several times what your piece is normally worth. The larger auction houses have literally tens of thousands of wealthy clients that you will not reach through normal methods. When several parties get into a bidding war, your piece sells quite well. I have found that 60% of the items I consign will sell, and out of those that sell, 1 out of 4 sells for significantly higher than I can get for it on the normal markets. I certainly have been burned on a few items but that's the risk you take, so the best thing is to make sure you're consigning enough pieces to mitigate potential losses. Reasons to bid: Even with the buyers premium, sometimes pieces from estates come up for auction that you cannot buy through normal channels. For example, last month I attended an auction of a collection of Victorian-era fossil pieces. Even with the buyers premium I got everything for 1/3 what it would normally sell for. So you can certainly find bargains. As for the buyers premium; the auction house is the middle men and they demand their cut for being the intermediary between the seller and the buyer. Without them in the deal, the seller would not be able to reach the buyers that the auction house knows, and the buyers would not have a trusted intermediary of cool stuff. The majority of these buyers do not shop on ebay, online, or at trade shows. They'll see something in an auction catalog that looks nice or has a good story and decide they want it. So yes, there are risks and benefits to auctions. It depends on the item you have and whether or not you're willing to gamble. -Yinan On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 10:30 AM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: I have consigned some things to high end auction houses. I got screwed over hard. Between their fees and outrageous shipping costs, in the end I got scraps. Ever bought from them and had to have items shipped? I had a piece of Norton County shipped from New York, sent priority mail in flat rate box, poorly packaged and cost me almost $50 for $10 shipping. Not too pleased with epic level of rip-off. Of course the high buyers premiums kill the bidding most of the time yet i see suckers loving it. Some people relish the atmosphere of showing off in public by bidding when they could buy the item cheaper down the street.. Michael Farmer Sent from my Ipad On Aug 4, 2012, at 7:20 AM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: I can see where this gimmick comes into play. You received 100% of the hammer price but maybe only received 75% of the real price realized for the object. I can see where this sounds good to a seller but in reality the auction house is still receiving up to 40% of the real price the item sold for. This does help clear things up for me. The hammer price means very little when when a buyers premium is put into play. To me, it is a gimmick to mislead buyers and sellers into thinking they got a good deal. I wonder if this started out as a way to daze and confuse buyers and sellers? Kind Regards, Adam - Original Message - From: petersche...@rcn.com petersche...@rcn.com To: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com; Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2012 7:08 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Questions Hi, I have sold stuff at auctions where I received 100% of the hammer price. The auction houses only cut was the buyers premium. Peter __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Questions
etting hit with all kinds of charges, do the math and buy or not. Auction houses hit you with hidden or poorly explained charges, photo fees, storage fees, insurance fees, catalog fees, seller commission, shipping and packing charges, handling fees, and in the end they get it all, sort of like a casino. Been screwed once too many times. I'm out. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Aug 4, 2012, at 11:57 PM, Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net wrote: What a hoot! Yinan Wang's coherent explanation of auction house operations should satisfy the complaints of any potential seller, or buyer. I can add to his descriptions by mentioning consignor's can set a minimum to protect themselves in most situations. That being the case,the auction company has a risk that not enough items will sell in order to cover costs and profits, so they may charge additional fees to cover that exposure. What is a hoot.. is reading the whinings of our professional dealers claiming auction house greediness when they themselves practice the same techniques. I don't hear them shedding an ounce of compassion for the newbie's they sell .25 cent a gram OCs to for $5.00 a gram. Auction houses are like used car salesman..they prefer to do business with the uninformed and emotionally driven buyer. I know because I earned my living in both fields of endeavor. Count Deiro INCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Yinan Wang veom...@gmail.com Sent: Aug 4, 2012 11:08 PM To: Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com Cc: METEORITE LIST meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Questions I'm putting in my two cents on the pros of auctions; since I've been a consignor, buyer, and an employee in major auctions. Reasons to consign: One of the main reasons to consign something to a large auction house is that you have the potential to get several times what your piece is normally worth. The larger auction houses have literally tens of thousands of wealthy clients that you will not reach through normal methods. When several parties get into a bidding war, your piece sells quite well. I have found that 60% of the items I consign will sell, and out of those that sell, 1 out of 4 sells for significantly higher than I can get for it on the normal markets. I certainly have been burned on a few items but that's the risk you take, so the best thing is to make sure you're consigning enough pieces to mitigate potential losses. Reasons to bid: Even with the buyers premium, sometimes pieces from estates come up for auction that you cannot buy through normal channels. For example, last month I attended an auction of a collection of Victorian-era fossil pieces. Even with the buyers premium I got everything for 1/3 what it would normally sell for. So you can certainly find bargains. As for the buyers premium; the auction house is the middle men and they demand their cut for being the intermediary between the seller and the buyer. Without them in the deal, the seller would not be able to reach the buyers that the auction house knows, and the buyers would not have a trusted intermediary of cool stuff. The majority of these buyers do not shop on ebay, online, or at trade shows. They'll see something in an auction catalog that looks nice or has a good story and decide they want it. So yes, there are risks and benefits to auctions. It depends on the item you have and whether or not you're willing to gamble. -Yinan On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 10:30 AM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: I have consigned some things to high end auction houses. I got screwed over hard. Between their fees and outrageous shipping costs, in the end I got scraps. Ever bought from them and had to have items shipped? I had a piece of Norton County shipped from New York, sent priority mail in flat rate box, poorly packaged and cost me almost $50 for $10 shipping. Not too pleased with epic level of rip-off. Of course the high buyers premiums kill the bidding most of the time yet i see suckers loving it. Some people relish the atmosphere of showing off in public by bidding when they could buy the item cheaper down the street.. Michael Farmer Sent from my Ipad On Aug 4, 2012, at 7:20 AM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: I can see where this gimmick comes into play. You received 100% of the hammer price but maybe only received 75% of the real price realized for the object. I can see where this sounds good to a seller but in reality the auction house is still receiving up to 40% of the real price the item sold for. This does help clear things up for me. The hammer price means very little when when a buyers premium is put into play. To me, it is a gimmick to mislead buyers and sellers into thinking they got a good deal. I wonder if this started out as a way to daze and confuse buyers and sellers? Kind
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Questions
Auction houses are like used car salesman..they prefer to do business with the uninformed and emotionally driven buyer. I know because I earned my living in both fields of endeavor. I couldn't agree more with this statement. I think saving the buyer a potential 40% is a good thing. Despite popular belief, there is not a lot of profits to be made dealing meteorites. Sure, you can lucky once in a while with a hot stone but have to deal with 99 other less desirable pieces to get one. The market is limited and prices are all of the board which makes it interesting for buyers, not so much for sellers. There are much easier ways of earning a living. I made more with a gross profit of only 11% selling volume internet infrastructure appliances whereas, if I was able to achieve 50% gross margin dealing meteorites, it would not begin to cover expenses. Take Care, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Questions
Dear Greg and List Members, The reality is: There may be about a dozen dealers that realize this type income. It would be extremely difficult in this economy to manage any sort of meaningful income like you suggest year after year. A $1,000,000.00 meteorite inventory can only be turned over about once every 10 years not counting one or two lucky stones. On the other hand, a $1,000,000.00 inventory in computer or car parts can be turned over 36 times or more in a single year, a much simpler way to generate a decent income, even at 11% gross margin. Properly marketing meteorites means that 20% or 20 grams has to be deposited to make it official, lab fees paid, around 28-32% cutting and polishing losses, travel, business and taxes expenses have to be incurred. This represents a greater than 50% lose before a meteorite is even ready to be marketed plus sometimes years waiting for classifications for those who do not piggyback. The addition of 40% auction fees can very easily push you into drawing red ink. The main reason for dealing meteorites has to be the love for the avocation, not the big bucks Kind Regards, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Questions
I'm putting in my two cents on the pros of auctions; since I've been a consignor, buyer, and an employee in major auctions. Reasons to consign: One of the main reasons to consign something to a large auction house is that you have the potential to get several times what your piece is normally worth. The larger auction houses have literally tens of thousands of wealthy clients that you will not reach through normal methods. When several parties get into a bidding war, your piece sells quite well. I have found that 60% of the items I consign will sell, and out of those that sell, 1 out of 4 sells for significantly higher than I can get for it on the normal markets. I certainly have been burned on a few items but that's the risk you take, so the best thing is to make sure you're consigning enough pieces to mitigate potential losses. Reasons to bid: Even with the buyers premium, sometimes pieces from estates come up for auction that you cannot buy through normal channels. For example, last month I attended an auction of a collection of Victorian-era fossil pieces. Even with the buyers premium I got everything for 1/3 what it would normally sell for. So you can certainly find bargains. As for the buyers premium; the auction house is the middle men and they demand their cut for being the intermediary between the seller and the buyer. Without them in the deal, the seller would not be able to reach the buyers that the auction house knows, and the buyers would not have a trusted intermediary of cool stuff. The majority of these buyers do not shop on ebay, online, or at trade shows. They'll see something in an auction catalog that looks nice or has a good story and decide they want it. So yes, there are risks and benefits to auctions. It depends on the item you have and whether or not you're willing to gamble. -Yinan On Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 10:30 AM, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: I have consigned some things to high end auction houses. I got screwed over hard. Between their fees and outrageous shipping costs, in the end I got scraps. Ever bought from them and had to have items shipped? I had a piece of Norton County shipped from New York, sent priority mail in flat rate box, poorly packaged and cost me almost $50 for $10 shipping. Not too pleased with epic level of rip-off. Of course the high buyers premiums kill the bidding most of the time yet i see suckers loving it. Some people relish the atmosphere of showing off in public by bidding when they could buy the item cheaper down the street.. Michael Farmer Sent from my Ipad On Aug 4, 2012, at 7:20 AM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: I can see where this gimmick comes into play. You received 100% of the hammer price but maybe only received 75% of the real price realized for the object. I can see where this sounds good to a seller but in reality the auction house is still receiving up to 40% of the real price the item sold for. This does help clear things up for me. The hammer price means very little when when a buyers premium is put into play. To me, it is a gimmick to mislead buyers and sellers into thinking they got a good deal. I wonder if this started out as a way to daze and confuse buyers and sellers? Kind Regards, Adam - Original Message - From: petersche...@rcn.com petersche...@rcn.com To: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com; Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2012 7:08 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Questions Hi, I have sold stuff at auctions where I received 100% of the hammer price. The auction houses only cut was the buyers premium. Peter __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Questions
The buyers premium ultimately comes out of the sellers pocket. Intelligent bidders bid accordingly so you, the consignor, realize less. I will not buy from or consign merchandise with an auctioneer that charges a buyers premium no matter how they claim to advertise/hype the goods. I wonder how long it will be before e--pay challenges us with this concept? Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 22:59:35 -0700 From: raremeteori...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Questions I found a good explanation on this website about buyers premiums at auctions: Here is a link that explains it: http://www.ganews.co.uk/premium.html Pretty interesting reading. He helped me greatly to understand the concept although I do not agree with it. Take Care Adam - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com To: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Friday, August 3, 2012 8:55 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Auction Questions Hi Michael and List Members, Your fees seem reasonable to me, especially after checking out some auction houses that charge a 20% seller premium plus a 20% buyer's premium equaling an outrageous 40%. Then catalog fees are added on top of that figure. Perhaps you can answer a few questions for me? Why do some auction houses charge a buyers premium to begin with? It seems that this practice confuses bidders and is misleading. I know it confuses me trying to make a quick multiplication in my head during live bidding. Why should the buyer have to pay this extra amount? It seems the seller should be pay a straight percentage like most auction sites do including eBay. When you bid on storage units, houses, cars or what have you, what you bid is what you pay. Seems pretty straight forward to me. Imagine if all businesses added a 20% buyers premium to their products and I am not talking about sales tax. What purpose does it serve? I believe in simplicity, Best Regards, Adam From: Michael Blood mlbl...@cox.net To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, August 3, 2012 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tucson Meteorite Auction 2013 (AD) Dear fellow List members, This coming Tucson Meteorite Auction will be held in the Same location as the last several years on Saturday, Feb. 9, 2013. http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/AuctionTucson2013.html First, I would like to thank all of you for your past patronage in The Tucson Meteorite Auctions of the past. I appreciate it very much. Unfortunately the cost of putting on the auction has increased So significantly in the last several years that I have been walking a Narrow line just to stay in the black on these events, let alone make any money from them. On occasion, it has even cost me - after hundreds Of hours of prep (the on line catalog is quite time consuming)and money Up front. As you are probably aware, most auctions charge at least 25% Consignment fees while 35% is rapidly becoming the norm. In short, I must raise my consignment fee to 15% (for items submitted by Sept. 1) to be certain I will break even. In addition, most auctions now have a Buyers' Premium of 15% At least and often more. I will be holding that to 10%. I already have 15 items up and a personal collection of 17 pallasites and 38 other meteorites on the way - in the mail to me NOW As soon as they arrive I will get them photographed and listed in the On line catalog. That will make 70 lots from the get go. SEE HERE: http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/AuctionTucson2013.html Those who would like to submit items, please contact me off list. I hope you all will be continuing your involvement - I would certainly love to see this auction continue as the joyful event it has become as part of the overall Tucson Show experience for the meteorite community. Thanks, Michael __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Questions
Hi Adam and all, The short answer is it is increasingly costly to manage an Auction - and sellers won't place items if the consignment fee Is too high. Personally, I believe a 20% buyers' premium is far Too high and I am determined to never go beyond 10%. However, If auctions (not just mine) are to survive the MUST have sellers Consigning items and, as I said, there is a limit to what a seller Will be willing to sacrifice as a consignment fee. I am not really suggesting this - but just AS AN EXAMPLE, if you wanted To place 20 items with me I would happily allow you to pay me 10% MORE for your listing fee and let the buyers bid on your items with No buyers premium. How would that work for you? Not so good, eh? Not to worry, I really don't need ANOTHER element to juggle at the Auction, so, please do not hear this as something directed at you, Personally or some ridiculous challenge for you to do that - I really don't want that additional confusion I just think if you look at it from the consignor's viewpoint it will be easier to understand. Also, by the way, for years I have actually had several people SUGGEST I raise the buyers' premium to 10% so it would be easier for them to calculate when bidding Again, I am very lucky to have had the Auction Nymphs SO on top of things this last auction when I was so ill I could barely sit up. They are a terrific crew and very sharp - and on top of that, very nice People. While I managed to call the auction I can't imagine if I had Tried to add peoples totals after the auction. I have always tried to keep both the premium and consignment Fees as low as possible - and I still do. Overhead has drastically risen in the last 14 years while my fees premium have increased minimally In comparison. I think the Tucson Meteorite Auction is a hoot, I just Have to be sure it doesn't COST me to put it on. By the way, I still haven't arranged for a speaker this year and if Any list members are one or know one who would present a casual 45 minutes or so presentation, please do let me know. We have had some Very interesting presenters in the past (I am told - I am always far too Busy to catch even a few minutes of any of the presentations). While we are at it, I want to again thank Twink for her wonderful Gold Basin cakes. I think this year she is considering an additional Frankonia cake She is really something. The meteorite community is Very lucky to have such a giving person. Hope I answered your question satisfactorily, Adam. If not, please Do feel free to give me a call we'll jaw about it. Best to all, Michael On 8/3/12 8:55 PM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi Michael and List Members, Your fees seem reasonable to me, especially after checking out some auction houses that charge a 20% seller premium plus a 20% buyer's premium equaling an outrageous 40%. Then catalog fees are added on top of that figure. Perhaps you can answer a few questions for me? Why do some auction houses charge a buyers premium to begin with? It seems that this practice confuses bidders and is misleading. I know it confuses me trying to make a quick multiplication in my head during live bidding. Why should the buyer have to pay this extra amount? It seems the seller should be pay a straight percentage like most auction sites do including eBay. When you bid on storage units, houses, cars or what have you, what you bid is what you pay. Seems pretty straight forward to me. Imagine if all businesses added a 20% buyers premium to their products and I am not talking about sales tax. What purpose does it serve? I believe in simplicity, Best Regards, Adam From: Michael Blood mlbl...@cox.net To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, August 3, 2012 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tucson Meteorite Auction 2013 (AD) Dear fellow List members, This coming Tucson Meteorite Auction will be held in the Same location as the last several years on Saturday, Feb. 9, 2013. http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/AuctionTucson2013.html First, I would like to thank all of you for your past patronage in The Tucson Meteorite Auctions of the past. I appreciate it very much. Unfortunately the cost of putting on the auction has increased So significantly in the last several years that I have been walking a Narrow line just to stay in the black on these events, let alone make any money from them. On occasion, it has even cost me - after hundreds Of hours of prep (the on line catalog is quite time consuming)and money Up front. As you are probably aware, most auctions charge at least 25% Consignment fees while 35% is rapidly becoming the norm. In short, I must raise my consignment fee to 15% (for items submitted by Sept. 1) to be certain I will break even.
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Questions 2
Sorry Adam all, I read and respond to posts chronologically and hadn't seen This. 1) I was amazed that the Brits charge significantly less than most Of the US auctions and 2) That they compound the buyers' premium, calling the difference The VAT - very kinky. Michael On 8/3/12 10:59 PM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: I found a good explanation on this website about buyers premiums at auctions: Here is a link that explains it: http://www.ganews.co.uk/premium.html Pretty interesting reading. He helped me greatly to understand the concept although I do not agree with it. Take Care Adam - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com To: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Friday, August 3, 2012 8:55 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Auction Questions Hi Michael and List Members, Your fees seem reasonable to me, especially after checking out some auction houses that charge a 20% seller premium plus a 20% buyer's premium equaling an outrageous 40%. Then catalog fees are added on top of that figure. Perhaps you can answer a few questions for me? Why do some auction houses charge a buyers premium to begin with? It seems that this practice confuses bidders and is misleading. I know it confuses me trying to make a quick multiplication in my head during live bidding. Why should the buyer have to pay this extra amount? It seems the seller should be pay a straight percentage like most auction sites do including eBay. When you bid on storage units, houses, cars or what have you, what you bid is what you pay. Seems pretty straight forward to me. Imagine if all businesses added a 20% buyers premium to their products and I am not talking about sales tax. What purpose does it serve? I believe in simplicity, Best Regards, Adam From: Michael Blood mlbl...@cox.net To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, August 3, 2012 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tucson Meteorite Auction 2013 (AD) Dear fellow List members, This coming Tucson Meteorite Auction will be held in the Same location as the last several years on Saturday, Feb. 9, 2013. http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/AuctionTucson2013.html First, I would like to thank all of you for your past patronage in The Tucson Meteorite Auctions of the past. I appreciate it very much. Unfortunately the cost of putting on the auction has increased So significantly in the last several years that I have been walking a Narrow line just to stay in the black on these events, let alone make any money from them. On occasion, it has even cost me - after hundreds Of hours of prep (the on line catalog is quite time consuming)and money Up front. As you are probably aware, most auctions charge at least 25% Consignment fees while 35% is rapidly becoming the norm. In short, I must raise my consignment fee to 15% (for items submitted by Sept. 1) to be certain I will break even. In addition, most auctions now have a Buyers' Premium of 15% At least and often more. I will be holding that to 10%. I already have 15 items up and a personal collection of 17 pallasites and 38 other meteorites on the way - in the mail to me NOW As soon as they arrive I will get them photographed and listed in the On line catalog. That will make 70 lots from the get go. SEE HERE: http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/AuctionTucson2013.html Those who would like to submit items, please contact me off list. I hope you all will be continuing your involvement - I would certainly love to see this auction continue as the joyful event it has become as part of the overall Tucson Show experience for the meteorite community. Thanks, Michael __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Questions
Hi Michael and List, I think that 25% is a reasonable commission to charge the seller and see no need whatsoever for a buyers premium. The seller will still realize the same amount at the end of the day. 15% plus 10% still equals 25% of the selling price going to the party throwing the auction meaning the seller will still realize 75%. I think 25% is reasonable considering the value added but playing games with numbers only serves to confuse me. I commend you on be open about the real costs and not hiding the buyers premium in small lettering on some obscure part of a website. A buyers premium feels like a tax to me. I cannot understand why anybody would pay 20% for the privilege of buying. Imagine if gas stations added 20% to the advertised pump price only to have buyers shocked when they realized how much they really paid when it comes time to settle up the bill. It is like advertising fuel at $3.00/gallon when you are really paying $3.60/gallon. I need to think about why this concept even exists. Kind Regards, Adam Hi Adam and all, The short answer is it is increasingly costly to manage an Auction - and sellers won't place items if the consignment fee Is too high. Personally, I believe a 20% buyers' premium is far Too high and I am determined to never go beyond 10%. However, If auctions (not just mine) are to survive the MUST have sellers Consigning items and, as I said, there is a limit to what a seller Will be willing to sacrifice as a consignment fee. I am not really suggesting this - but just AS AN EXAMPLE, if you wanted To place 20 items with me I would happily allow you to pay me 10% MORE for your listing fee and let the buyers bid on your items with No buyers premium. How would that work for you? Not so good, eh? Not to worry, I really don't need ANOTHER element to juggle at the Auction, so, please do not hear this as something directed at you, Personally or some ridiculous challenge for you to do that - I really don't want that additional confusion I just think if you look at it from the consignor's viewpoint it will be easier to understand. Also, by the way, for years I have actually had several people SUGGEST I raise the buyers' premium to 10% so it would be easier for them to calculate when bidding Again, I am very lucky to have had the Auction Nymphs SO on top of things this last auction when I was so ill I could barely sit up. They are a terrific crew and very sharp - and on top of that, very nice People. While I managed to call the auction I can't imagine if I had Tried to add peoples totals after the auction. I have always tried to keep both the premium and consignment Fees as low as possible - and I still do. Overhead has drastically risen in the last 14 years while my fees premium have increased minimally In comparison. I think the Tucson Meteorite Auction is a hoot, I just Have to be sure it doesn't COST me to put it on. By the way, I still haven't arranged for a speaker this year and if Any list members are one or know one who would present a casual 45 minutes or so presentation, please do let me know. We have had some Very interesting presenters in the past (I am told - I am always far too Busy to catch even a few minutes of any of the presentations). While we are at it, I want to again thank Twink for her wonderful Gold Basin cakes. I think this year she is considering an additional Frankonia cake She is really something. The meteorite community is Very lucky to have such a giving person. Hope I answered your question satisfactorily, Adam. If not, please Do feel free to give me a call we'll jaw about it. Best to all, Michael __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Questions
Hi, I have sold stuff at auctions where I received 100% of the hammer price. The auction houses only cut was the buyers premium. Peter __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Questions
I can see where this gimmick comes into play. You received 100% of the hammer price but maybe only received 75% of the real price realized for the object. I can see where this sounds good to a seller but in reality the auction house is still receiving up to 40% of the real price the item sold for. This does help clear things up for me. The hammer price means very little when when a buyers premium is put into play. To me, it is a gimmick to mislead buyers and sellers into thinking they got a good deal. I wonder if this started out as a way to daze and confuse buyers and sellers? Kind Regards, Adam - Original Message - From: petersche...@rcn.com petersche...@rcn.com To: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com; Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2012 7:08 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Questions Hi, I have sold stuff at auctions where I received 100% of the hammer price. The auction houses only cut was the buyers premium. Peter __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Questions
Hi, My guess is that it was a way to allow auction houses to better compete of consignments. I wouldn't be surprised if the final price of the item might be slightly higher for auctions where the buyer is charged a premium. Peter __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Questions
Not exactly the same Adam - As you know better than anyone, in this business the profit is in the margin for the seller. The 15/10 scheme is not as bad as the straight 25%. As a buyer, I'd rather pay the 10% buyer's commission in the example you gave than no buyer commission and having the seller pay the entire 25% since that is more money. So what you propose would actually add another 3% to the total cost grabbed by the auctioneer. For a Total price of 100: 25% seller scheme: Hammer price is 100 , the auction house take 25, seller get 75. 15%/10%:Seller/Buyer scheme: Hammer price is 90.91, buyer pays 9.09 but the seller pays only 13.64 yet nets 77.27. The concept of two-side financing of the auction probably started innocently enough when some Dutch guys in wigs had to rent the facilities and thought it fair that everyone chipped in, sellers by a commission and buyers by an entry fee. You know, like mall parking lots started at a flat $0.25 entry fee to pay the attendant. Then, everyone complained that they needed their wives and husbands there to agree to ask permission, or their employees to help cart it away. Also there were people who claimed they were there to help, but really did nothing and avoided the entrance fee. Then the auctioneer said screw this, we'll just put a minor buyer's commission on the sales, and in any case the bigger the crowd the more likely bidders are likely to lose their head in the commotion with showboat bidding. Phase three was when a change of business model miraculously occurred and plain greed took over: and the buyer's % fee was suddenly viewed as a source of income, and as you say has the benefit to obscure the bill so careless buyers paid more than they thought and could only grumble that the drinks at the bar weren't so cheap after all. So my thought is that as long as the auctioneer is not gouging anyone it's ok. Buyers are smart enough to add the buyer's commission if they are bidding responsibly and seriously. The example is implemented no differently from a cooperative tax as you point out. If you go to a restaurant, you wouldn't complain that tax was added to your bill, as long as the tax rate is reasonable. In Mexico, where sales taxes are higher than the US, btw, all prices are quoted inclusive of tax, so WYSIWYG on the bill and customers are happy since they don't have to count what's in their wallet while figuring in taxesto see ifthey have enough after taxes. It make for interesting accounting as it pushes the burden to the vendor to back out the tax. So if something is 99.80 MXN pesos the accountant sets up a spreadsheet and determines 86.79 is the income and 13.01 is the tax due. So everyone is running around with calculators all the time dividing everything by 1.15 to back out the 15% VAT. It gets to be a real pain in the arse. Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com To: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sat, Aug 4, 2012 9:53 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Questions Hi Michael and List, I think that 25% is a reasonable commission to charge the seller and see no need whatsoever for a buyers premium. The seller will still realize the same amount at the end of the day. 15% plus 10% still equals 25% of the selling price going to the party throwing the auction meaning the seller will still realize 75%. I think 25% is reasonable considering the value added but playing games with numbers only serves to confuse me. I commend you on be open about the real costs and not hiding the buyers premium in small lettering on some obscure part of a website. A buyers premium feels like a tax to me. I cannot understand why anybody would pay 20% for the privilege of buying. Imagine if gas stations added 20% to the advertised pump price only to have buyers shocked when they realized how much they really paid when it comes time to settle up the bill. It is like advertising fuel at $3.00/gallon when you are really paying $3.60/gallon. I need to think about why this concept even exists. Kind Regards, Adam Hi Adam and all, The short answer is it is increasingly costly to manage an Auction - and sellers won't place items if the consignment fee Is too high. Personally, I believe a 20% buyers' premium is far Too high and I am determined to never go beyond 10%. However, If auctions (not just mine) are to survive the MUST have sellers Consigning items and, as I said, there is a limit to what a seller Will be willing to sacrifice as a consignment fee. I am not really suggesting this - but just AS AN EXAMPLE, if you wanted To place 20 items with me I would happily allow you to pay me 10% MORE for your listing fee and let the buyers bid on your items with No buyers premium. How would that work for you? Not so good, eh? Not to worry, I really don't need ANOTHER element to juggle
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Questions Answered
Hi, Your disapproval of the protocols of a large, serious auction house fascinates. Given the depth of such feelings, I am surprised I received more than a half dozen emails from you the past three weeks in your desire to have the NWA 5000 main mass included in the upcoming Heritage Meteorite Auction…and when I felt I had no choice but to pass on your proposal, you then turned to someone else at Heritage---and the consignment was again rejected after multiple solicitations were again made. Given your note below, can we now expect to see the NWA 5000 main mass in Michael Blood's upcoming auction? d, Begin forwarded message: From: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Auction Questions Date: August 3, 2012 11:55:10 PM EDT To: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Reply-To: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com Hi Michael and List Members, Your fees seem reasonable to me, especially after checking out some auction houses that charge a 20% seller premium plus a 20% buyer's premium equaling an outrageous 40%. Then catalog fees are added on top of that figure. Perhaps you can answer a few questions for me? Why do some auction houses charge a buyers premium to begin with? It seems that this practice confuses bidders and is misleading. I know it confuses me trying to make a quick multiplication in my head during live bidding. Why should the buyer have to pay this extra amount? It seems the seller should be pay a straight percentage like most auction sites do including eBay. When you bid on storage units, houses, cars or what have you, what you bid is what you pay. Seems pretty straight forward to me. Imagine if all businesses added a 20% buyers premium to their products and I am not talking about sales tax. What purpose does it serve? I believe in simplicity, Best Regards, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Questions Answered
Hi Darryl. I was only exploring options when you and Heritage were contacted. It is obvious, in my opinion, that they are not up the task of marketing the world's best and most valuable lunar meteorite (NWA 5000). I am no longer interesting in offering NWA 5000 at any auction house and certainly not in Tucson. After studying the situation, I have come to feel Heritages 40% fees are unreasonable. It is my belief that their understanding of planetary meteorites is lacking. Using the same assigned price per gram values for NWA 5000 as a 1.8 kilogram weathered lunar breccia from Algeria demonstrates a serious lack of understanding. Kindest Regards, Adam - Original Message - From: Darryl Pitt dar...@dof3.com To: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com Cc: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2012 11:46 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Questions Answered Hi, Your disapproval of the protocols of a large, serious auction house fascinates. Given the depth of such feelings, I am surprised I received more than a half dozen emails from you the past three weeks in your desire to have the NWA 5000 main mass included in the upcoming Heritage Meteorite Auction…and when I felt I had no choice but to pass on your proposal, you then turned to someone else at Heritage---and the consignment was again rejected after multiple solicitations were again made. Given your note below, can we now expect to see the NWA 5000 main mass in Michael Blood's upcoming auction? d, Begin forwarded message: From: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Auction Questions Date: August 3, 2012 11:55:10 PM EDT To: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Reply-To: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com Hi Michael and List Members, Your fees seem reasonable to me, especially after checking out some auction houses that charge a 20% seller premium plus a 20% buyer's premium equaling an outrageous 40%. Then catalog fees are added on top of that figure. Perhaps you can answer a few questions for me? Why do some auction houses charge a buyers premium to begin with? It seems that this practice confuses bidders and is misleading. I know it confuses me trying to make a quick multiplication in my head during live bidding. Why should the buyer have to pay this extra amount? It seems the seller should be pay a straight percentage like most auction sites do including eBay. When you bid on storage units, houses, cars or what have you, what you bid is what you pay. Seems pretty straight forward to me. Imagine if all businesses added a 20% buyers premium to their products and I am not talking about sales tax. What purpose does it serve? I believe in simplicity, Best Regards, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Questions
I have consigned some things to high end auction houses. I got screwed over hard. Between their fees and outrageous shipping costs, in the end I got scraps. Ever bought from them and had to have items shipped? I had a piece of Norton County shipped from New York, sent priority mail in flat rate box, poorly packaged and cost me almost $50 for $10 shipping. Not too pleased with epic level of rip-off. Of course the high buyers premiums kill the bidding most of the time yet i see suckers loving it. Some people relish the atmosphere of showing off in public by bidding when they could buy the item cheaper down the street.. Michael Farmer Sent from my Ipad On Aug 4, 2012, at 7:20 AM, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: I can see where this gimmick comes into play. You received 100% of the hammer price but maybe only received 75% of the real price realized for the object. I can see where this sounds good to a seller but in reality the auction house is still receiving up to 40% of the real price the item sold for. This does help clear things up for me. The hammer price means very little when when a buyers premium is put into play. To me, it is a gimmick to mislead buyers and sellers into thinking they got a good deal. I wonder if this started out as a way to daze and confuse buyers and sellers? Kind Regards, Adam - Original Message - From: petersche...@rcn.com petersche...@rcn.com To: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com; Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Saturday, August 4, 2012 7:08 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Questions Hi, I have sold stuff at auctions where I received 100% of the hammer price. The auction houses only cut was the buyers premium. Peter __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Questions
I found a good explanation on this website about buyers premiums at auctions: Here is a link that explains it: http://www.ganews.co.uk/premium.html Pretty interesting reading. He helped me greatly to understand the concept although I do not agree with it. Take Care Adam - Original Message - From: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com To: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Sent: Friday, August 3, 2012 8:55 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] Auction Questions Hi Michael and List Members, Your fees seem reasonable to me, especially after checking out some auction houses that charge a 20% seller premium plus a 20% buyer's premium equaling an outrageous 40%. Then catalog fees are added on top of that figure. Perhaps you can answer a few questions for me? Why do some auction houses charge a buyers premium to begin with? It seems that this practice confuses bidders and is misleading. I know it confuses me trying to make a quick multiplication in my head during live bidding. Why should the buyer have to pay this extra amount? It seems the seller should be pay a straight percentage like most auction sites do including eBay. When you bid on storage units, houses, cars or what have you, what you bid is what you pay. Seems pretty straight forward to me. Imagine if all businesses added a 20% buyers premium to their products and I am not talking about sales tax. What purpose does it serve? I believe in simplicity, Best Regards, Adam From: Michael Blood mlbl...@cox.net To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, August 3, 2012 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tucson Meteorite Auction 2013 (AD) Dear fellow List members, This coming Tucson Meteorite Auction will be held in the Same location as the last several years on Saturday, Feb. 9, 2013. http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/AuctionTucson2013.html First, I would like to thank all of you for your past patronage in The Tucson Meteorite Auctions of the past. I appreciate it very much. Unfortunately the cost of putting on the auction has increased So significantly in the last several years that I have been walking a Narrow line just to stay in the black on these events, let alone make any money from them. On occasion, it has even cost me - after hundreds Of hours of prep (the on line catalog is quite time consuming)and money Up front. As you are probably aware, most auctions charge at least 25% Consignment fees while 35% is rapidly becoming the norm. In short, I must raise my consignment fee to 15% (for items submitted by Sept. 1) to be certain I will break even. In addition, most auctions now have a Buyers' Premium of 15% At least and often more. I will be holding that to 10%. I already have 15 items up and a personal collection of 17 pallasites and 38 other meteorites on the way - in the mail to me NOW As soon as they arrive I will get them photographed and listed in the On line catalog. That will make 70 lots from the get go. SEE HERE: http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/AuctionTucson2013.html Those who would like to submit items, please contact me off list. I hope you all will be continuing your involvement - I would certainly love to see this auction continue as the joyful event it has become as part of the overall Tucson Show experience for the meteorite community. Thanks, Michael __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin
That show was the second one like in the last little while that I have seen where a meteorite came up for auction. The other show was one where they had experts there and they looked at the items people brought and gave an evaluation. Then based on the evaluation they would decide if it went to auction. If i remember correctly, the meteorite was a stony in that one. Looked to weigh several pounds. I can't remember the selling price of it though. I told my wife at the time that I thought that was the wrong venue to sell something like a large stony meteorite. On Mar 23, 2012, at 8:38 AM, Michael Gilmer wrote: Hi Folks, So last night I was going through the channel guide on cable TV and I saw that a show called Auction Kings was going to have a segment featuring a meteorite. I had never watched this show before, but I was very curious to see what type of meteorite would be shown. Apparently, the show is about a local auction house somewhere (not sure where). People bring in unusual items and the auction house sells them at open auction while the cameras follow the action. The meteorite segment came and here is where the fun begins This guy walks in carrying a Pelican-style case about the size of a camera case. He opens it and brings out a Sikhote Alin shrapnel about the size of a grapefruit. The meteorite had a nice patina, but the shape was not very interesting or sculpted. In other words, it was what most of us would call a lump, but it was obvious from the appearance that it was a genuine Sikhote. First, the auction house guy was impressed because the meteorite had a certificate of authenticity. I thought this was laughable for obvious reasons and a man who runs an auction house should know that 99% of COA's are not worth the paper they are printed on. I can go outside, grab a rock from my driveway, and print up an official-looking COA for it. Next, the owner proceeds to demonstrate that the meteorite is magnetic because a magnet will stick to it and that is one of the key tests to determine if a meteorite is genuine. I'll skip comment on this misconception and use of improper terminology because the real kicker was still to come. So the owner tells the auction house that he is hoping to sell the meteorite to help pay for a vacation to Paris and he wants $1000 for it. Ok, at no point in the show was the weight of the specimen ever mentioned. So without knowing the weight, it is difficult to assign to solid value to the piece. But judging by what I saw (apparent size and shape), I'd guess the piece would sell on the meteorite market or eBay for about $250-$300. The owner's desired price of $1000 seemed unrealistic to me, but this is television and a bunch of people who don't know jack about meteorites, so anything is possible. The auction part comes, and they have a nice turn out with maybe two or three dozen potential bidders in attendance. The meteorite ignites a bidding war and the final price for the piece was.(*drumroll please*).. $2000! And the buyer was thrilled because he thought he got a good deal. Of course, once he gets home and does some Googling to learn more about his new meteorite, he might change his mind about the deal he got. He could have went on eBay and bought a half-dozen Sikhote shrapnels of that size for $2000. So the moral of this story is - if you have a local auction house near you, go down there with a meteorite and you might be pleasantly surprised how much money it will fetch. I'm opening up the yellow pages today and/or getting on the internet and see what kind of auction houses we have here in the Tampa area. I'll be more than happy to offer them all the $200 stones and irons they want, as long as they fetch $2000 each. Heck, even after the auction house takes it's percentage, that is still a great deal for the seller. And the best part is, once the buyer gets home and finds out he/she got burned on the price, they cannot get mad at the seller, because they are the ones who bid the item up. Dealers - check your local auction houses. Best regards, MikeG -- --- Galactic Stone Ironworks - MikeG Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings ( PROVENANCE COA's )
I think collectors might be confusing COAs with ID cards. We are lucky that ID cards suffice in the meteorite market most of the time. As far as I know, nobody has passed off counterfeit ID cards from my collection yet. This would be like poking a stick into a beehive as far as I am concerned. The only COAs I have provided that were printed by myself were for crumbs or cutting dust encased in laminated collectors cards. The pieces were so small that I felt collectors would appreciate a little more assurance. They are also serialized with the certification statement on the back. The only other COAs I have provided came with some NWA 5000 specimens. These COAs came from an immensely-qualified independent grader. I had no input whatsoever on how individual specimens would be graded since many factors were independently taken into account. I have never graded any specimens myself. I have however provided comments when I feel a special feature needs to be pointed out. The grades that came on my ID cards were provided by researchers approved by the Meteoritical Society's Nomenclature Committee and can be referenced in the Bulletin. Despite popular belief, there are a few errors in the Bulletin so no system is perfect. I hope this clears things up, Kind Regards, Adam From: John higgins geohigg...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 11:31 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings ( PROVENANCE COA's ) Hi Mike, Adam, and List, Interesting opinions. You guys touched on a major issue in the Meteorite Community, and there are parts of your statements I don't agree with. I would really like to share how I feel about the subject. First of all Mike you said, I thought this was laughable for obvious reasons and a man who runs an auction house should know that 99% of COA's are not worth the paper they are printed on. I can go outside, grab a rock from my driveway, and print up an official-looking COA for it. Mike with all due respect, I don't agree with this. Why would you try to knock a dealers reputation? For example a meteorite sold by Mike Farmer or Greg Hupe is worth more than a meteorite that is sold without any provenance or COA. For example lets say unknown dealer X is selling a Howardite, and well known dealer Y is selling the same Howardite. Who do you think is going to realize a higher price? The well know dealer. Now if that meteorite losses it's COA from the dealer who sold it, what happens? Usually the meteorite immediately looses value, how can you explain this if the COA is not worth the paper it's printed on? For example a meteorite said to be from from the Bob Hagg collection without Bob's paperwork has a much lower value than a meteorite from the Bob Hagg collection with his COA right? So please extrapolate exactly what you mean and how you come to this conclusion. I strongly disagree with your opinion. Much of the value in meteorites is locked up in the provenance and not the meteorite itself in my opinion. I think what is much too overlooked is that a meteorite dealers reputation is the most important factor in meteorite prices. That includes the following they create, the friends they make, impressions that collectors get all translate into value and that it why most collectors demand individual COA's be issued with each meteorite sold. I think this makes a lot of sense because the process it takes to build a good reputation takes years. The piece of paper adds value. Of course a paper from Hagg is worth more than a COA from Joe Schmo. But to say the paper has no value is the most insane thing I ever heard. How else would you know if your buying pedigree meteorites from dealers who stand for integrity, honor and strive to provide the customer the best experience. A lot of new comers think that the value is in the meteorite itself, and then when they try to sell them, they are greatly let down and wonder why their meteorites don't fetch the same price that the other more well known dealers get all day long. Because it comes down to more than just the meteorite itself and taking it for face value. You fail to consider the amount of friends the advanced dealers had made over the years, the networking they have done and the awareness they have created about their meteorite and the way they are presented. And most importantly the way they make their customers feel is the most important factor to me. Is it just a roughly cut rock, sloppily thrown in a bag with a sharpie marking? OR IS IT A EXPERIENCE FOR THE CUSTOMER? The experience adds value, making the customer feel good is an integral part of any business, even meteorite dealing. The COA and provenance conveys that feeling to the customer. It makes them say WOW! I can't wait to see what this dealer has to offer me next. It gives them something to hold
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings ( PROVENANCE COA's )
Yes Adam, provenance, COA, and ID cards can be very different things. Saying I got some specimens from Adam, Greg, or any number of the great people who do the collecting, purchasing, and classifying is never intended as a COA, but, it does assure others that it's not from the driveway, railway, or some cave somewhere. On 3:41:58 pm 03/24/12 Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: I think collectors might be confusing COAs with ID cards. We are lucky that ID cards suffice in the meteorite market most of the time. As far as I know, nobody has passed off counterfeit ID cards from my collection yet. This would be like poking a stick into a beehive as far as I am concerned. The only COAs I have provided that were printed by myself were for crumbs or cutting dust encased in laminated collectors cards. The pieces were so small that I felt collectors would appreciate a little more assurance. They are also serialized with the certification statement on the back. The only other COAs I have provided came with some NWA 5000 specimens. These COAs came from an immensely-qualified independent grader. I had no input whatsoever on how individual specimens would be graded since many factors were independently taken into account. I have never graded any specimens myself. I have however provided comments when I feel a special feature needs to be pointed out. The grades that came on my ID cards were provided by researchers approved by the Meteoritical Society's Nomenclature Committee and can be referenced in the Bulletin. Despite popular belief, there are a few errors in the Bulletin so no system is perfect. I hope this clears things up, Kind Regards, Adam From: John higgins geohigg...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecen tral.com Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 11:31 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings ( PROVENANCE COA's ) Hi Mike, Adam, and List, Interesting opinions. You guys touched on a major issue in the Meteorite Community, and there are parts of your statements I don't agree with. I would really like to share how I feel about the subject. First of all Mike you said, I thought this was laughable for obvious reasons and a man who runs an auction house should know that 99% of COA's are not worth the paper they are printed on. I can go outside, grab a rock from my driveway, and print up an official-looking COA for it. Mike with all due respect, I don't agree with this. Why would you try to knock a dealers reputation? For example a meteorite sold by Mike Farmer or Greg Hupe is worth more than a meteorite that is sold without any provenance or COA. For example lets say unknown dealer X is selling a Howardite, and well known dealer Y is selling the same Howardite. Who do you think is going to realize a higher price? The well know dealer. Now if that meteorite losses it's COA from the dealer who sold it, what happens? Usually the meteorite immediately looses value, how can you explain this if the COA is not worth the paper it's printed on? For example a meteorite said to be from from the Bob Hagg collection without Bob's paperwork has a much lower value than a meteorite from the Bob Hagg collection with his COA right? So please extrapolate exactly what you mean and how you come to this conclusion. I strongly disagree with your opinion. Much of the value in meteorites is locked up in the provenance and not the meteorite itself in my opinion. I think what is much too overlooked is that a meteorite dealers reputation is the most important factor in meteorite prices. That includes the following they create, the friends they make, impressions that collectors get all translate into value and that it why most collectors demand individual COA's be issued with each meteorite sold. I think this makes a lot of sense because the process it takes to build a good reputation takes years. The piece of paper adds value. Of course a paper from Hagg is worth more than a COA from Joe Schmo. But to say the paper has no value is the most insane thing I ever heard. How else would you know if your buying pedigree meteorites from dealers who stand for integrity, honor and strive to provide the customer the best experience. A lot of new comers think that the value is in the meteorite itself, and then when they try to sell them, they are greatly let down and wonder why their meteorites don't fetch the same price that the other more well known dealers get all day long. Because it comes down to more than just the meteorite itself and taking it for face value. You fail to consider the amount of friends the advanced dealers had made over the years, the networking they have done and the awareness they have created about their meteorite and the way they are presented. And most importantly the way they make their customers feel is the most important factor to me
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin
A lot of buyers judge the price of collectable items from eBay. EBay is not known for fetching top dollar, especially on collectables. A solid auction house will almost always fetch more than what would be realized on eBay. The problem with many auction houses is that their commissions are out of line, some charging in excess of 40%! Then some fleece the buyers with expensive shipping and handling fees. Don't get me wrong, there are a few great auction companies out there, I have used some of them. One problem I encountered is that if the item doesn't sell or the buyer can't pay for the item after bidding on it, then the seller can be out of some serious money including catalog and no-sell fees. They need to do a better job of vetting their bidders! A lot of dealers don't bother with middle men anymore since they can get wholesale prices right off of eBay. Some specialty shops get most of there product from eBay, mark it up considerably and put it on their shelves. The problem is that a lot the collectable items offered on eBay have no expertise behind them and are accidentally or purposely misrepresented. There are reputable independent companies that can authenticate and paper items so COAs are important to me. I wouldn't purchase a valuable coin, baseball card or any other collectable without first seeing that it has been papered through an independent grading and certificate service. A properly papered item will almost always bring in the big bucks in an auction house whereas it may not do so well on eBay where some dealers tend to print their own COAs and grade items themselves. Kind Regards and Happy Collecting, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin
Hi Adam and List, Some good points there. About COA's - even if a COA comes from a trusted grading or certification firm, the value in the COA is not the COA itself, it is the name of the grading or certification service on it that is known to collectors of that particular type of collectible. If you buy a rare collectible and the COA says Confirmed authentic by Acme Certification Services, Walla Walla Washington, Serial number #123456, then the value of the certificate is that the buyer or potential buyer can contact Acme Services, have them check their database and confirm that the item in question is indeed genuine. However, anyone can print a piece of paper that looks like it came from Acme Certification Services and the ruse will only be exposed if the buyer follows up on the info printed on the COA. The COA itself is worthless. In the world of meteorites, there is no certification service or central authority that can be relied upon to authenticate meteorites. Without an authoritative body backing a COA, it's just a pretty piece of paper. Otherwise, I agree 100% with the other things you said. :) Best regards, MikeG -- --- Galactic Stone Ironworks - MikeG Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 --- On 3/23/12, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: A lot of buyers judge the price of collectable items from eBay. EBay is not known for fetching top dollar, especially on collectables. A solid auction house will almost always fetch more than what would be realized on eBay. The problem with many auction houses is that their commissions are out of line, some charging in excess of 40%! Then some fleece the buyers with expensive shipping and handling fees. Don't get me wrong, there are a few great auction companies out there, I have used some of them. One problem I encountered is that if the item doesn't sell or the buyer can't pay for the item after bidding on it, then the seller can be out of some serious money including catalog and no-sell fees. They need to do a better job of vetting their bidders! A lot of dealers don't bother with middle men anymore since they can get wholesale prices right off of eBay. Some specialty shops get most of there product from eBay, mark it up considerably and put it on their shelves. The problem is that a lot the collectable items offered on eBay have no expertise behind them and are accidentally or purposely misrepresented. There are reputable independent companies that can authenticate and paper items so COAs are important to me. I wouldn't purchase a valuable coin, baseball card or any other collectable without first seeing that it has been papered through an independent grading and certificate service. A properly papered item will almost always bring in the big bucks in an auction house whereas it may not do so well on eBay where some dealers tend to print their own COAs and grade items themselves. Kind Regards and Happy Collecting, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin
Michael: I watch this show as I'm fascinated will all kinds of collectables, and this is an old episode which first aired about a year ago. The auction house is based in Atlanta GA. I agree that it was very high, but the is the nature of autions. Perhaps try one near and see what happens. Greg S -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer Sent: 23 Mar 2012 14:38:21 GMT To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin Hi Folks, So last night I was going through the channel guide on cable TV and I saw that a show called Auction Kings was going to have a segment featuring a meteorite. I had never watched this show before, but I was very curious to see what type of meteorite would be shown. Apparently, the show is about a local auction house somewhere (not sure where). People bring in unusual items and the auction house sells them at open auction while the cameras follow the action. The meteorite segment came and here is where the fun begins This guy walks in carrying a Pelican-style case about the size of a camera case. He opens it and brings out a Sikhote Alin shrapnel about the size of a grapefruit. The meteorite had a nice patina, but the shape was not very interesting or sculpted. In other words, it was what most of us would call a lump, but it was obvious from the appearance that it was a genuine Sikhote. First, the auction house guy was impressed because the meteorite had a certificate of authenticity. I thought this was laughable for obvious reasons and a man who runs an auction house should know that 99% of COA's are not worth the paper they are printed on. I can go outside, grab a rock from my driveway, and print up an official-looking COA for it. Next, the owner proceeds to demonstrate that the meteorite is magnetic because a magnet will stick to it and that is one of the key tests to determine if a meteorite is genuine. I'll skip comment on this misconception and use of improper terminology because the real kicker was still to come. So the owner tells the auction house that he is hoping to sell the meteorite to help pay for a vacation to Paris and he wants $1000 for it. Ok, at no point in the show was the weight of the specimen ever mentioned. So without knowing the weight, it is difficult to assign to solid value to the piece. But judging by what I saw (apparent size and shape), I'd guess the piece would sell on the meteorite market or eBay for about $250-$300. The owner's desired price of $1000 seemed unrealistic to me, but this is television and a bunch of people who don't know jack about meteorites, so anything is possible. The auction part comes, and they have a nice turn out with maybe two or three dozen potential bidders in attendance. The meteorite ignites a bidding war and the final price for the piece was.(*drumroll please*).. $2000! And the buyer was thrilled because he thought he got a good deal. Of course, once he gets home and does some Googling to learn more about his new meteorite, he might change his mind about the deal he got. He could have went on eBay and bought a half-dozen Sikhote shrapnels of that size for $2000. So the moral of this story is - if you have a local auction house near you, go down there with a meteorite and you might be pleasantly surprised how much money it will fetch. I'm opening up the yellow pages today and/or getting on the internet and see what kind of auction houses we have here in the Tampa area. I'll be more than happy to offer them all the $200 stones and irons they want, as long as they fetch $2000 each. Heck, even after the auction house takes it's percentage, that is still a great deal for the seller. And the best part is, once the buyer gets home and finds out he/she got burned on the price, they cannot get mad at the seller, because they are the ones who bid the item up. Dealers - check your local auction houses. Best regards, MikeG -- --- Galactic Stone Ironworks - MikeG Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 --- __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings ( PROVENANCE COA's )
, A properly papered item will almost always bring in the big bucks in an auction house whereas it may not do so well on eBay where some dealers tend to print their own COAs and grade items themselves. Adam, with all due respect, I don't understand this statement, where do you and your COA's fit into the picture? Don't you print the COA and describe/grade the meteorites you sell and classify? Sounds like you would be hesitant to buy meteorites from yourself? I think comparing baseball cards and antiques that hold cultural value to meteorites that hold both cultural and scientific value, is like comparing Apples to Oranges. To Everyone, I would like to go one step further, I urge the meteorite community at large to consider standardizing COA's and provenance. Each dealer should still have his/her own unique style but there should be a simple standardized field of data provided for each specimen. This will promote the science of studying them, adding value to all of our collections in the future. Thanks for taking the time to hear my opinion, Have a Great Day! Best Regards, John Higgins www.outerspacerocks.com IMCA # 9822 From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com Cc: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 11:51 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 SikhoteAlin Hi Adam and List, Some good points there. About COA's - even if a COA comes from a trusted grading or certification firm, the value in the COA is not the COA itself, it is the name of the grading or certification service on it that is known to collectors of that particular type of collectible. If you buy a rare collectible and the COA says Confirmed authentic by Acme Certification Services, Walla Walla Washington, Serial number #123456, then the value of the certificate is that the buyer or potential buyer can contact Acme Services, have them check their database and confirm that the item in question is indeed genuine. However, anyone can print a piece of paper that looks like it came from Acme Certification Services and the ruse will only be exposed if the buyer follows up on the info printed on the COA. The COA itself is worthless. In the world of meteorites, there is no certification service or central authority that can be relied upon to authenticate meteorites. Without an authoritative body backing a COA, it's just a pretty piece of paper. Otherwise, I agree 100% with the other things you said. :) Best regards, MikeG -- --- Galactic Stone Ironworks - MikeG Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 --- On 3/23/12, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: A lot of buyers judge the price of collectable items from eBay. EBay is not known for fetching top dollar, especially on collectables. A solid auction house will almost always fetch more than what would be realized on eBay. The problem with many auction houses is that their commissions are out of line, some charging in excess of 40%! Then some fleece the buyers with expensive shipping and handling fees. Don't get me wrong, there are a few great auction companies out there, I have used some of them. One problem I encountered is that if the item doesn't sell or the buyer can't pay for the item after bidding on it, then the seller can be out of some serious money including catalog and no-sell fees. They need to do a better job of vetting their bidders! A lot of dealers don't bother with middle men anymore since they can get wholesale prices right off of eBay. Some specialty shops get most of there product from eBay, mark it up considerably and put it on their shelves. The problem is that a lot the collectable items offered on eBay have no expertise behind them and are accidentally or purposely misrepresented. There are reputable independent companies that can authenticate and paper items so COAs are important to me. I wouldn't purchase a valuable coin, baseball card or any other collectable without first seeing that it has been papered through an independent grading and certificate service. A properly papered item will almost always bring in the big bucks in an auction house whereas it may not do so well on eBay where some dealers tend to print their own COAs and grade items themselves. Kind Regards and Happy Collecting, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings ( PROVENANCE COA's )
with the specimen is a big part of meteorites and collecting. I for one get very depressed when I buy a meteorite on eBay and it comes with no card! What happens if I lose the bag it's in or the marking wears off? what happens to the specimen, the value drops to 0. Cant sell it because you don't know what it is. And if you ever do want to sell it, how can you prove where it came from. The COA answers a lot of those questions, sure you can explain to kingdom come what it is, but it wont prove the origin for the 99% of meteorite collectors who demand provenance, and I don't blame them one bit. The value to any assigned meteorite is less without the papers. Now I will admit, it can all come down to perspective, when your dealing with small micro fragments, I sympathize with your view Mike, it's not worth the time or the expense to make a COA, but you can always give something, even a little piece of paper I hope, to say it came from you and what it is. Maybe comparing a micro to a macro is useless and it's like comparing Apples to Oranges... Two totally different perspectives that are neither right or wrong just are what they are, each of us our own independent opinions. Adam you said, A properly papered item will almost always bring in the big bucks in an auction house whereas it may not do so well on eBay where some dealers tend to print their own COAs and grade items themselves. Adam, with all due respect, I don't understand this statement, where do you and your COA's fit into the picture? Don't you print the COA and describe/grade the meteorites you sell and classify? Sounds like you would be hesitant to buy meteorites from yourself? I think comparing baseball cards and antiques that hold cultural value to meteorites that hold both cultural and scientific value, is like comparing Apples to Oranges. To Everyone, I would like to go one step further, I urge the meteorite community at large to consider standardizing COA's and provenance. Each dealer should still have his/her own unique style but there should be a simple standardized field of data provided for each specimen. This will promote the science of studying them, adding value to all of our collections in the future. Thanks for taking the time to hear my opinion, Have a Great Day! Best Regards, John Higgins www.outerspacerocks.com IMCA # 9822 From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com Cc: Adam meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 11:51 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 SikhoteAlin Hi Adam and List, Some good points there. About COA's - even if a COA comes from a trusted grading or certification firm, the value in the COA is not the COA itself, it is the name of the grading or certification service on it that is known to collectors of that particular type of collectible. If you buy a rare collectible and the COA says Confirmed authentic by Acme Certification Services, Walla Walla Washington, Serial number #123456, then the value of the certificate is that the buyer or potential buyer can contact Acme Services, have them check their database and confirm that the item in question is indeed genuine. However, anyone can print a piece of paper that looks like it came from Acme Certification Services and the ruse will only be exposed if the buyer follows up on the info printed on the COA. The COA itself is worthless. In the world of meteorites, there is no certification service or central authority that can be relied upon to authenticate meteorites. Without an authoritative body backing a COA, it's just a pretty piece of paper. Otherwise, I agree 100% with the other things you said. :) Best regards, MikeG -- --- Galactic Stone Ironworks - MikeG Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 --- On 3/23/12, Adam Hupe raremeteori...@yahoo.com wrote: A lot of buyers judge the price of collectable items from eBay. EBay is not known for fetching top dollar, especially on collectables. A solid auction house will almost always fetch more than what would be realized on eBay. The problem with many auction houses is that their commissions are out of line, some charging in excess of 40%! Then some fleece the buyers with expensive shipping and handling fees. Don't get me wrong, there are a few great auction companies out there, I have used some of them. One problem I encountered is that if the item doesn't sell or the buyer can't pay for the item after bidding on it, then the seller can be out of some serious money including catalog and no-sell fees. They need to do a better job of vetting
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin
Mike G wrote: He opens it and brings out a Sikhote Alin shrapnel about the size of a grapefruit. I'd guess the piece would sell on the meteorite market or eBay for about $250-$300. The owner's desired price of $1000 seemed unrealistic to me. Mike, very entertaining! I think I will start meteorite hunting on eBay. I sure would be easier than in the field if what this is true. A Sikhote the size of a grapefruit, if we use the United States Department of Agriculture's (USDA) definition for an average pink grapefruit size, is ... 3.61 kg. So less eBay and paypal commissions, we must be receiving $218 for these Sikhote grapefruits, because we have an addiction to giving stuff away on eBay. ;-) The problem with I caught a fish and it was *this big* is you are building a story around a supposition you have made, when in fact $1000 may have been a reasonable offering price for the meteorite, or it may not have. Do you think 2.29 kg Campo for $749 is a better deal? http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/campo-del-cielo-iron-meteorite--big-centerpiece-specimen-229kg and a bunch of people who don't know jack about meteorites ???: huh? What does an isolated sales price have to do with knowing about meteorites? Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, Mar 23, 2012 10:38 am Subject: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin Hi Folks, So last night I was going through the channel guide on cable TV and I saw that a show called Auction Kings was going to have a segment featuring a meteorite. I had never watched this show before, but I was very curious to see what type of meteorite would be shown. Apparently, the show is about a local auction house somewhere (not sure where). People bring in unusual items and the auction house sells them at open auction while the cameras follow the action. The meteorite segment came and here is where the fun begins This guy walks in carrying a Pelican-style case about the size of a camera case. He opens it and brings out a Sikhote Alin shrapnel about the size of a grapefruit. The meteorite had a nice patina, but the shape was not very interesting or sculpted. In other words, it was what most of us would call a lump, but it was obvious from the appearance that it was a genuine Sikhote. First, the auction house guy was impressed because the meteorite had a certificate of authenticity. I thought this was laughable for obvious reasons and a man who runs an auction house should know that 99% of COA's are not worth the paper they are printed on. I can go outside, grab a rock from my driveway, and print up an official-looking COA for it. Next, the owner proceeds to demonstrate that the meteorite is magnetic because a magnet will stick to it and that is one of the key tests to determine if a meteorite is genuine. I'll skip comment on this misconception and use of improper terminology because the real kicker was still to come. So the owner tells the auction house that he is hoping to sell the meteorite to help pay for a vacation to Paris and he wants $1000 for it. Ok, at no point in the show was the weight of the specimen ever mentioned. So without knowing the weight, it is difficult to assign to solid value to the piece. But judging by what I saw (apparent size and shape), I'd guess the piece would sell on the meteorite market or eBay for about $250-$300. The owner's desired price of $1000 seemed unrealistic to me, but this is television and a bunch of people who don't know jack about meteorites, so anything is possible. The auction part comes, and they have a nice turn out with maybe two or three dozen potential bidders in attendance. The meteorite ignites a bidding war and the final price for the piece was.(*drumroll please*).. $2000! And the buyer was thrilled because he thought he got a good deal. Of course, once he gets home and does some Googling to learn more about his new meteorite, he might change his mind about the deal he got. He could have went on eBay and bought a half-dozen Sikhote shrapnels of that size for $2000. So the moral of this story is - if you have a local auction house near you, go down there with a meteorite and you might be pleasantly surprised how much money it will fetch. I'm opening up the yellow pages today and/or getting on the internet and see what kind of auction houses we have here in the Tampa area. I'll be more than happy to offer them all the $200 stones and irons they want, as long as they fetch $2000 each. Heck, even after the auction house takes it's percentage, that is still a great deal for the seller. And the best part is, once the buyer gets home and finds out he/she got burned on the price, they cannot get mad at the seller, because they are the ones who bid the item up. Dealers - check your local auction houses. Best regards,
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin
Hi Doug, Ok, perhaps a cueball or baseball would be a better analogy. The specimen was about fist-sized and easily fit in the palm of the hand. I've seen similar-sized Sikhote shrapnels regularly sell for far less than $1000, less yet $2000. I can't state whether or not any meteorite, even my own, are a good deal or not - that is up to the buyer to decide. In the case of the Campo irons I sell on my website, they sell and every buyer has been happy with their purchase - not a single complaint or return. And some of those buyers were experienced collectors - they decided that a Campo that will never rust is worth the extra money. (barring putting it into a swimming pool) The Sikhote on the TV show was similar in size, shape, and quality to this one - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Collection-Meteorite-203Gr-Shaped-SIKHOTE-ALIN-Shrapnel-/370541768509?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2hash=item564602af3d Best regards, MikeG -- --- Galactic Stone Ironworks - MikeG Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 --- On 3/23/12, MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com wrote: Mike G wrote: He opens it and brings out a Sikhote Alin shrapnel about the size of a grapefruit. I'd guess the piece would sell on the meteorite market or eBay for about $250-$300. The owner's desired price of $1000 seemed unrealistic to me. Mike, very entertaining! I think I will start meteorite hunting on eBay. I sure would be easier than in the field if what this is true. A Sikhote the size of a grapefruit, if we use the United States Department of Agriculture's (USDA) definition for an average pink grapefruit size, is ... 3.61 kg. So less eBay and paypal commissions, we must be receiving $218 for these Sikhote grapefruits, because we have an addiction to giving stuff away on eBay. ;-) The problem with I caught a fish and it was *this big* is you are building a story around a supposition you have made, when in fact $1000 may have been a reasonable offering price for the meteorite, or it may not have. Do you think 2.29 kg Campo for $749 is a better deal? http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/campo-del-cielo-iron-meteorite--big-centerpiece-specimen-229kg and a bunch of people who don't know jack about meteorites ???: huh? What does an isolated sales price have to do with knowing about meteorites? Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, Mar 23, 2012 10:38 am Subject: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin Hi Folks, So last night I was going through the channel guide on cable TV and I saw that a show called Auction Kings was going to have a segment featuring a meteorite. I had never watched this show before, but I was very curious to see what type of meteorite would be shown. Apparently, the show is about a local auction house somewhere (not sure where). People bring in unusual items and the auction house sells them at open auction while the cameras follow the action. The meteorite segment came and here is where the fun begins This guy walks in carrying a Pelican-style case about the size of a camera case. He opens it and brings out a Sikhote Alin shrapnel about the size of a grapefruit. The meteorite had a nice patina, but the shape was not very interesting or sculpted. In other words, it was what most of us would call a lump, but it was obvious from the appearance that it was a genuine Sikhote. First, the auction house guy was impressed because the meteorite had a certificate of authenticity. I thought this was laughable for obvious reasons and a man who runs an auction house should know that 99% of COA's are not worth the paper they are printed on. I can go outside, grab a rock from my driveway, and print up an official-looking COA for it. Next, the owner proceeds to demonstrate that the meteorite is magnetic because a magnet will stick to it and that is one of the key tests to determine if a meteorite is genuine. I'll skip comment on this misconception and use of improper terminology because the real kicker was still to come. So the owner tells the auction house that he is hoping to sell the meteorite to help pay for a vacation to Paris and he wants $1000 for it. Ok, at no point in the show was the weight of the specimen ever mentioned. So without knowing the weight, it is difficult to assign to solid value to the piece. But judging by what I saw (apparent size and shape), I'd guess the piece would sell on the meteorite market or eBay for about $250-$300. The owner's desired price of $1000 seemed unrealistic to me, but this is television and a bunch of people who don't
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin
The Sikhote on the TV show was similar in size, shape, and quality to this one - http://www.ebay...; Something like this? http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/auction-kings-meteorite-man.html that is up to the buyer to decide Yes - so true! Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com Cc: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, Mar 23, 2012 4:01 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin Hi Doug, Ok, perhaps a cueball or baseball would be a better analogy. The specimen was about fist-sized and easily fit in the palm of the hand. I've seen similar-sized Sikhote shrapnels regularly sell for far less than $1000, less yet $2000. I can't state whether or not any meteorite, even my own, are a good deal or not - that is up to the buyer to decide. In the case of the Campo irons I sell on my website, they sell and every buyer has been happy with their purchase - not a single complaint or return. And some of those buyers were experienced collectors - they decided that a Campo that will never rust is worth the extra money. (barring putting it into a swimming pool) The Sikhote on the TV show was similar in size, shape, and quality to this one - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Collection-Meteorite-203Gr-Shaped-SIKHOTE-ALIN-Shrapnel-/370541768509?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2hash=item564602af3d Best regards, MikeG -- --- Galactic Stone Ironworks - MikeG Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 --- On 3/23/12, MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com wrote: Mike G wrote: He opens it and brings out a Sikhote Alin shrapnel about the size of a grapefruit. I'd guess the piece would sell on the meteorite market or eBay for about $250-$300. The owner's desired price of $1000 seemed unrealistic to me. Mike, very entertaining! I think I will start meteorite hunting on eBay. I sure would be easier than in the field if what this is true. A Sikhote the size of a grapefruit, if we use the United States Department of Agriculture's (USDA) definition for an average pink grapefruit size, is ... 3.61 kg. So less eBay and paypal commissions, we must be receiving $218 for these Sikhote grapefruits, because we have an addiction to giving stuff away on eBay. ;-) The problem with I caught a fish and it was *this big* is you are building a story around a supposition you have made, when in fact $1000 may have been a reasonable offering price for the meteorite, or it may not have. Do you think 2.29 kg Campo for $749 is a better deal? http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/campo-del-cielo-iron-meteorite--big-centerpiece-specimen-229kg and a bunch of people who don't know jack about meteorites ???: huh? What does an isolated sales price have to do with knowing about meteorites? Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, Mar 23, 2012 10:38 am Subject: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin Hi Folks, So last night I was going through the channel guide on cable TV and I saw that a show called Auction Kings was going to have a segment featuring a meteorite. I had never watched this show before, but I was very curious to see what type of meteorite would be shown. Apparently, the show is about a local auction house somewhere (not sure where). People bring in unusual items and the auction house sells them at open auction while the cameras follow the action. The meteorite segment came and here is where the fun begins This guy walks in carrying a Pelican-style case about the size of a camera case. He opens it and brings out a Sikhote Alin shrapnel about the size of a grapefruit. The meteorite had a nice patina, but the shape was not very interesting or sculpted. In other words, it was what most of us would call a lump, but it was obvious from the appearance that it was a genuine Sikhote. First, the auction house guy was impressed because the meteorite had a certificate of authenticity. I thought this was laughable for obvious reasons and a man who runs an auction house should know that 99% of COA's are not worth the paper they are printed on. I can go outside, grab a rock from my driveway, and print up an official-looking COA for it. Next, the owner proceeds to demonstrate that the meteorite is magnetic because a magnet will stick to it and that is one of the key tests to determine if a meteorite is genuine. I'll skip comment on this misconception and use of improper terminology because the real kicker was still to come. So the owner tells the auction house that he is hoping to sell
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin
Yup, that's it. :) My main point in posting that originally was to say that dealers might consider looking into their local auction houses as an alternate venue for sales. With eBay fees continually climbing, there might come a day when the local auction house's fees are not that much higher than selling on eBay. Combined listing, final value, and PayPal fees already have reached about 10% of the sale price, so we are well on our way. The auction market is a fickle mistress indeed. Best regards, MikeG -- --- Galactic Stone Ironworks - MikeG Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 --- On 3/23/12, MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com wrote: The Sikhote on the TV show was similar in size, shape, and quality to this one - http://www.ebay...; Something like this? http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/auction-kings-meteorite-man.html that is up to the buyer to decide Yes - so true! Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com Cc: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, Mar 23, 2012 4:01 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin Hi Doug, Ok, perhaps a cueball or baseball would be a better analogy. The specimen was about fist-sized and easily fit in the palm of the hand. I've seen similar-sized Sikhote shrapnels regularly sell for far less than $1000, less yet $2000. I can't state whether or not any meteorite, even my own, are a good deal or not - that is up to the buyer to decide. In the case of the Campo irons I sell on my website, they sell and every buyer has been happy with their purchase - not a single complaint or return. And some of those buyers were experienced collectors - they decided that a Campo that will never rust is worth the extra money. (barring putting it into a swimming pool) The Sikhote on the TV show was similar in size, shape, and quality to this one - http://www.ebay.com/itm/Collection-Meteorite-203Gr-Shaped-SIKHOTE-ALIN-Shrapnel-/370541768509?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2hash=item564602af3d Best regards, MikeG -- --- Galactic Stone Ironworks - MikeG Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 --- On 3/23/12, MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com wrote: Mike G wrote: He opens it and brings out a Sikhote Alin shrapnel about the size of a grapefruit. I'd guess the piece would sell on the meteorite market or eBay for about $250-$300. The owner's desired price of $1000 seemed unrealistic to me. Mike, very entertaining! I think I will start meteorite hunting on eBay. I sure would be easier than in the field if what this is true. A Sikhote the size of a grapefruit, if we use the United States Department of Agriculture's (USDA) definition for an average pink grapefruit size, is ... 3.61 kg. So less eBay and paypal commissions, we must be receiving $218 for these Sikhote grapefruits, because we have an addiction to giving stuff away on eBay. ;-) The problem with I caught a fish and it was *this big* is you are building a story around a supposition you have made, when in fact $1000 may have been a reasonable offering price for the meteorite, or it may not have. Do you think 2.29 kg Campo for $749 is a better deal? http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/campo-del-cielo-iron-meteorite--big-centerpiece-specimen-229kg and a bunch of people who don't know jack about meteorites ???: huh? What does an isolated sales price have to do with knowing about meteorites? Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, Mar 23, 2012 10:38 am Subject: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin Hi Folks, So last night I was going through the channel guide on cable TV and I saw that a show called Auction Kings was going to have a segment featuring a meteorite. I had never watched this show before, but I was very curious to see what type of meteorite would be shown. Apparently, the show is about a local auction house somewhere (not sure where). People bring in unusual items and the auction house sells them at open auction while the cameras follow the action. The meteorite segment came and here is where the fun begins This guy walks in carrying a Pelican-style case about the size of a camera case. He opens it and brings out a Sikhote Alin shrapnel about
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings ( PROVENANCE COA's )
, What a great response, thanks for that. I greatly appreciate your comments. Mike I really love and enjoy buying your meteorites and they all come with ID cards. You always give a nice one, I think this debate comes down to the confusion over what is a ID card, compared to what is a COA and the umbrella of provenance it all falls under. I really feel that the paper adds a Cultural and Historical dimension to otherwise what would only be a Scientific object. It's important because the provenance can help add to the scientific value as well, it's like a tracking number. And can help you find out more information about the specimen in the future if you want to find out more. Now this is where a standardized data form comes into play and would immediately add value to all meteorites sold in the future. Wouldn't it be worth it to have some of the historical background as to how the meteorite came about other than what is stored on the meteoritical society data base? What if Joe Schmo ends up with a rare meteorite that originated from another collection and it looks a little funny, what should you be expected to do, test every specimen or trust the Provenance that comes with it? You have to then make a judgment call, first you evaluate who is Joe Schmo? Then you evaluate all the documents as well as the story that comes along with it. Or like you said you can already know Joe Schmoe and trust the guy or not. Now you say it's a big world of all different kinds of people looking to buy meteorites. Sure there is a BIG WORLD of meteorite collectors from every echelon of existence. It's fine if you want to focus on the newbies or those who don't know enough about provenance and reputation or those that don't even care. It's a free World, thank God last time I checked, people are free to choose to and do whatever they want at least for the most part in some countries. But don't you want to stand out among and impress all the advanced collectors and buyers that do care? That's a huge percentage of potential customers that your shafting by not providing supporting documentation. That why I think COA's, ID, Provenance whatever you choose to call it should be provided with each and every specimen. It might not add value for everybody, but it will to the ones who care, and I don't think there is a shortage of collectors who are passionate and care enough to say it's important. You say, sure anyone can scan and copy and make a fake COA, but I don't think it's that easy, how can you get the same paper, the same patina that you only get with age on that paper? I truly beg to differ on this. And if your worried about someone copying your COA then you should go the extra mile to make it copy deterrent. You are only hurting yourself if you make a flimsy photocopy that someone can easily duplicate. That all comes back round to your reputation. That should be your job as the seller to make sure you customer is confident that they are getting what you say. I don't think this is a valid excuse to say because it can be copied it should not be done, you can easily make a excuse for anything, that doesn't make it right. I know there is great confusion about the differences between a Specimen Card, ID Card, COA. In my opinion they all fall under the same umbrella, provenance. I see the paper as the dealers reputation, when they do a good job on the COA, it shows me they care, they want to go the extra mile for the collector. I like that. The extreme position you can take for being against COA's. We know where the specimen comes from, Outer Space. But I think that statement can turn into another argument in and of itself. It sells the meteorite short in my opinion. I like to buy from dealers who care about presentation, don't mind spending a extra few minutes to build that WOW factor that nobody no matter how hard they try can duplicate. I agree with you Mike, when I get those packages in the zip-lock with no ID card or anything. It makes me wanna cry. makes me want to yell at the top of my lungs: SHOW SOME RESPECT FOR THE CULTURE AND THE SCIENCE! I urge other dealers to take the extra steps to advance our COA's together we can elevate meteorite collecting to the next level, and put our meteorites where they belong up on the pedestal. Yes you can say I'm passionate about meteorites in every respect. Sincerely Best Regards, John Higgins ww.outerspacerocks.com IMCA# 9822 From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: John higgins geohigg...@yahoo.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 3:25 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings ( PROVENANCE COA's ) Hi John and List, I was not knocking any dealer's reputation, just expressing an opinion about COA's in general. I think we are blurring the line here between
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings ( PROVENANCE COA's )
Hi Mike, I consider that little piece of paper you put inside the micros a valid provenance and COA. It's your design and has your name on it. Regardless of how small or cheap others perceive it to be, it's unique and it's the only provenance that comes from you. That in and of itself makes it special, and something worth being proud of. It adds a cultural and historic attribute to every meteorite you sell. You don't have to explain yourself, I consider you a friend, I like you and the meteorites you provide, I like your comments to the list, you and solely you, add a dimension to the meteorite world where there would otherwise be a empty space. When I see your post I don't always respond but I always take pleasure in reading what you have to say. People don't have to agree with you, who cares if they agree or not, you take pride in what you do and you make a incredible effort making great contributions to the meteorite community on a daily basis. And let me be the first to Thank you for being who you are, telling it like it is, and shooting from the hip, telling people how you feel,In my book that puts you near the top of the list. Not too many people put themselves out there like you do. Even though your not big on contributing great volumes of new meteorites, you more than make up for it in contributions you make elsewhere. Sincerely, John Higgins PS. I still am in support of standardization of provenance. From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: John higgins geohigg...@yahoo.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings ( PROVENANCE COA's ) Hi John, Some specimen cards or COA's would be easier to counterfeit than others. The best one I have seen, in regards to difficulty to duplicate, would be the cards issued by Martin Altmann and Stefan Ralew. Their specimen card is very glossy and professional, but it also has an embedded hologram. This adds an extra element of difficulty to reproducing their cards and would act as a solid deterrent. Truthfully, I don't issue COA's (or even specimen cards) with the vast majority of my specimens for one reason - cost. The bulk of my sales are specks, crumbs, and tiny pieces that cost $10 or less. It's just not financially viable for me to produce cards and COA's for every little micro I sell. At the rate I sell micros, I would need thousands of them over the course of time, and I just cannot afford the expense. When I have to choose between putting gas in my truck (or food in my belly) and ordering up a batch of specimen cards to be custom made, I have to pick the former. I operate on razor-thin margins and this is how I feed my family. I don't have a day job or income outside of meteorites. Also, my inventory has such a high turnover rate, that a meteorite I have in stock today might be gone tomorrow and might never be offered again. And I am a man of opportunity, most of my acquisitions are based on opportunity alone and are not planned. I have no idea what I will be offering tomorrow or next week. Frankly, I am flying by the seat of my pants. I'm not saying what I do is best or should be emulated by others. By the time I figure in the cost of packing-shipping materials (bubble mailers, baggies, gemjars, printer paper/ink, mailing labels) and other stuff like business cards, I am already spending about $2 on packaging each $5 micromount. Figure in PayPal fees and the profit gets even smaller. I have to draw a line somewhere and I draw it at COA's and specimen cards. Not to mention the 20% off coupons I throw around on the web. Every micro I sell comes in a 1.25 gemjar that has a paper label inside. The paper label states the meteorite name, locality, type, and my URL/name. That small piece of paper, is for all intents and purposes my specimen card. On larger or higher-dollar specimens, I do offer specimen cards. Or, if I am reselling a specimen I bought from another dealer, I pass along the original specimen card or a copy of it. Also, if a buyer requests it, I will provide a specimen card (of the conventional type) for any micro I sell. Most buyers don't request it. I am aware that I lose potential buyers because of how I present my meteorites in a spartan way. I have had several collectors contact me privately and tell me this. Honestly, I am not trying to compete with the big guys, the Hupes, Farmer, Cottingham, or any of you veteran dealers. I don't have the financial ability to compete and I have no desire either. I am quite happy in the small niche I have carved out for myself. I have a cadre of repeat customers who like what I offer and they come back again and again. If they are happy, then I am happy. They know what I offer, and if they want a big specimen, they go elsewhere. I often refer them to the other dealers for those big specimens
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin
Hi List, Most auctioneers and auction bidders wouldn't be able to tell a meteorite from a charcoal briquet. I think the rock in question sold cheap. The seller could have put $2,000 as the reserve and those bidders would have slugged it out to an even higher figure. Why do I say that? Because what they did proved They didn't know market prices, so they were being motivated by mystique, the Public misconception of value due to popular media BS... and finally...good ole competition between each other. Seen it happen a hundred times. It will keep happening until we screw it up by flooding the small auction houses with meteorites and telling everyone when they have paid too much. And if it bothers you to see someone pay more for something than you would. Then ask yourself...Am I upset because I could have been the seller and made that killing? Or am I upset because somebody made a bad buy? I thought so. Regards, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com Sent: Mar 23, 2012 12:43 PM To: meteoritem...@gmail.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin Mike G wrote: He opens it and brings out a Sikhote Alin shrapnel about the size of a grapefruit. I'd guess the piece would sell on the meteorite market or eBay for about $250-$300. The owner's desired price of $1000 seemed unrealistic to me. Mike, very entertaining! I think I will start meteorite hunting on eBay. I sure would be easier than in the field if what this is true. A Sikhote the size of a grapefruit, if we use the United States Department of Agriculture's (USDA) definition for an average pink grapefruit size, is ... 3.61 kg. So less eBay and paypal commissions, we must be receiving $218 for these Sikhote grapefruits, because we have an addiction to giving stuff away on eBay. ;-) The problem with I caught a fish and it was *this big* is you are building a story around a supposition you have made, when in fact $1000 may have been a reasonable offering price for the meteorite, or it may not have. Do you think 2.29 kg Campo for $749 is a better deal? http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/campo-del-cielo-iron-meteorite--big-centerpiece-specimen-229kg and a bunch of people who don't know jack about meteorites ???: huh? What does an isolated sales price have to do with knowing about meteorites? Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, Mar 23, 2012 10:38 am Subject: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin Hi Folks, So last night I was going through the channel guide on cable TV and I saw that a show called Auction Kings was going to have a segment featuring a meteorite. I had never watched this show before, but I was very curious to see what type of meteorite would be shown. Apparently, the show is about a local auction house somewhere (not sure where). People bring in unusual items and the auction house sells them at open auction while the cameras follow the action. The meteorite segment came and here is where the fun begins This guy walks in carrying a Pelican-style case about the size of a camera case. He opens it and brings out a Sikhote Alin shrapnel about the size of a grapefruit. The meteorite had a nice patina, but the shape was not very interesting or sculpted. In other words, it was what most of us would call a lump, but it was obvious from the appearance that it was a genuine Sikhote. First, the auction house guy was impressed because the meteorite had a certificate of authenticity. I thought this was laughable for obvious reasons and a man who runs an auction house should know that 99% of COA's are not worth the paper they are printed on. I can go outside, grab a rock from my driveway, and print up an official-looking COA for it. Next, the owner proceeds to demonstrate that the meteorite is magnetic because a magnet will stick to it and that is one of the key tests to determine if a meteorite is genuine. I'll skip comment on this misconception and use of improper terminology because the real kicker was still to come. So the owner tells the auction house that he is hoping to sell the meteorite to help pay for a vacation to Paris and he wants $1000 for it. Ok, at no point in the show was the weight of the specimen ever mentioned. So without knowing the weight, it is difficult to assign to solid value to the piece. But judging by what I saw (apparent size and shape), I'd guess the piece would sell on the meteorite market or eBay for about $250-$300. The owner's desired price of $1000 seemed unrealistic to me, but this is television and a bunch of people who don't know jack about meteorites, so anything is possible. The auction part comes, and they have a nice turn out with maybe two or three dozen potential bidders
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings ( PROVENANCE COA's )
Hi John, Thanks for the kind words. You must be one of the half-dozen people on this List that I have not alienated over the years with my big mouth. I like to think that I make positive contributions to the meteorite world, in my own small way. Now if I can just learn to keep my foot out of my mouth. But man, I love the taste of my boots. LOL. Maybe this issue of standardized provenance is an issue that the IMCA can tackle. It sounds like something right up their alley. And although I am not a member, I would be happy to comply with whatever rules might emerge as part of a solution. Best regards, MikeG -- --- Galactic Stone Ironworks - MikeG Web: http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter: http://twitter.com/GalacticStone RSS: http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 --- On 3/23/12, John higgins geohigg...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi Mike, I consider that little piece of paper you put inside the micros a valid provenance and COA. It's your design and has your name on it. Regardless of how small or cheap others perceive it to be, it's unique and it's the only provenance that comes from you. That in and of itself makes it special, and something worth being proud of. It adds a cultural and historic attribute to every meteorite you sell. You don't have to explain yourself, I consider you a friend, I like you and the meteorites you provide, I like your comments to the list, you and solely you, add a dimension to the meteorite world where there would otherwise be a empty space. When I see your post I don't always respond but I always take pleasure in reading what you have to say. People don't have to agree with you, who cares if they agree or not, you take pride in what you do and you make a incredible effort making great contributions to the meteorite community on a daily basis. And let me be the first to Thank you for being who you are, telling it like it is, and shooting from the hip, telling people how you feel,In my book that puts you near the top of the list. Not too many people put themselves out there like you do. Even though your not big on contributing great volumes of new meteorites, you more than make up for it in contributions you make elsewhere. Sincerely, John Higgins PS. I still am in support of standardization of provenance. From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: John higgins geohigg...@yahoo.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings ( PROVENANCE COA's ) Hi John, Some specimen cards or COA's would be easier to counterfeit than others. The best one I have seen, in regards to difficulty to duplicate, would be the cards issued by Martin Altmann and Stefan Ralew. Their specimen card is very glossy and professional, but it also has an embedded hologram. This adds an extra element of difficulty to reproducing their cards and would act as a solid deterrent. Truthfully, I don't issue COA's (or even specimen cards) with the vast majority of my specimens for one reason - cost. The bulk of my sales are specks, crumbs, and tiny pieces that cost $10 or less. It's just not financially viable for me to produce cards and COA's for every little micro I sell. At the rate I sell micros, I would need thousands of them over the course of time, and I just cannot afford the expense. When I have to choose between putting gas in my truck (or food in my belly) and ordering up a batch of specimen cards to be custom made, I have to pick the former. I operate on razor-thin margins and this is how I feed my family. I don't have a day job or income outside of meteorites. Also, my inventory has such a high turnover rate, that a meteorite I have in stock today might be gone tomorrow and might never be offered again. And I am a man of opportunity, most of my acquisitions are based on opportunity alone and are not planned. I have no idea what I will be offering tomorrow or next week. Frankly, I am flying by the seat of my pants. I'm not saying what I do is best or should be emulated by others. By the time I figure in the cost of packing-shipping materials (bubble mailers, baggies, gemjars, printer paper/ink, mailing labels) and other stuff like business cards, I am already spending about $2 on packaging each $5 micromount. Figure in PayPal fees and the profit gets even smaller. I have to draw a line somewhere and I draw it at COA's and specimen cards. Not to mention the 20% off coupons I throw around on the web. Every micro I sell comes in a 1.25 gemjar that has a paper label inside. The paper label states the meteorite name, locality, type, and my URL/name. That small piece of paper, is for all intents
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin
I've seen this show a number of times and there was no reserve, for some reason there just was a lot of bidding. Greg S -Original Message- From: Count Deiro Sent: 23 Mar 2012 21:54:25 GMT To: MexicoDoug,meteoritem...@gmail.com,meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com,meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin Hi List, Most auctioneers and auction bidders wouldn't be able to tell a meteorite from a charcoal briquet. I think the rock in question sold cheap. The seller could have put $2,000 as the reserve and those bidders would have slugged it out to an even higher figure. Why do I say that? Because what they did proved They didn't know market prices, so they were being motivated by mystique, the Public misconception of value due to popular media BS... and finally...good ole competition between each other. Seen it happen a hundred times. It will keep happening until we screw it up by flooding the small auction houses with meteorites and telling everyone when they have paid too much. And if it bothers you to see someone pay more for something than you would. Then ask yourself...Am I upset because I could have been the seller and made that killing? Or am I upset because somebody made a bad buy? I thought so. Regards, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com Sent: Mar 23, 2012 12:43 PM To: meteoritem...@gmail.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin Mike G wrote: He opens it and brings out a Sikhote Alin shrapnel about the size of a grapefruit. I'd guess the piece would sell on the meteorite market or eBay for about $250-$300. The owner's desired price of $1000 seemed unrealistic to me. Mike, very entertaining! I think I will start meteorite hunting on eBay. I sure would be easier than in the field if what this is true. A Sikhote the size of a grapefruit, if we use the United States Department of Agriculture's (USDA) definition for an average pink grapefruit size, is ... 3.61 kg. So less eBay and paypal commissions, we must be receiving $218 for these Sikhote grapefruits, because we have an addiction to giving stuff away on eBay. ;-) The problem with I caught a fish and it was *this big* is you are building a story around a supposition you have made, when in fact $1000 may have been a reasonable offering price for the meteorite, or it may not have. Do you think 2.29 kg Campo for $749 is a better deal? http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/campo-del-cielo-iron-meteorite--big-centerpiece-specimen-229kg and a bunch of people who don't know jack about meteorites ???: huh? What does an isolated sales price have to do with knowing about meteorites? Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, Mar 23, 2012 10:38 am Subject: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin Hi Folks, So last night I was going through the channel guide on cable TV and I saw that a show called Auction Kings was going to have a segment featuring a meteorite. I had never watched this show before, but I was very curious to see what type of meteorite would be shown. Apparently, the show is about a local auction house somewhere (not sure where). People bring in unusual items and the auction house sells them at open auction while the cameras follow the action. The meteorite segment came and here is where the fun begins This guy walks in carrying a Pelican-style case about the size of a camera case. He opens it and brings out a Sikhote Alin shrapnel about the size of a grapefruit. The meteorite had a nice patina, but the shape was not very interesting or sculpted. In other words, it was what most of us would call a lump, but it was obvious from the appearance that it was a genuine Sikhote. First, the auction house guy was impressed because the meteorite had a certificate of authenticity. I thought this was laughable for obvious reasons and a man who runs an auction house should know that 99% of COA's are not worth the paper they are printed on. I can go outside, grab a rock from my driveway, and print up an official-looking COA for it. Next, the owner proceeds to demonstrate that the meteorite is magnetic because a magnet will stick to it and that is one of the key tests to determine if a meteorite is genuine. I'll skip comment on this misconception and use of improper terminology because the real kicker was still to come. So the owner tells the auction house that he is hoping to sell the meteorite to help pay for a vacation to Paris and he wants $1000 for it. Ok, at no point in the show was the weight of the specimen ever mentioned. So without knowing the weight, it is difficult to assign to solid value to the piece. But judging by what I saw (apparent size
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin
Hi Adam, I was watching this show the other night (different episode) and did catch them say at the beginning that the auction house takes a 20% sellers premium. I have never worked with an auction house however this does not seem too bad based on the draw this auction seems to have. Best Regards, Bob Falls Colorado Springs, CO -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Adam Hupe Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 9:31 AM To: Adam Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin A lot of buyers judge the price of collectable items from eBay. EBay is not known for fetching top dollar, especially on collectables. A solid auction house will almost always fetch more than what would be realized on eBay. The problem with many auction houses is that their commissions are out of line, some charging in excess of 40%! Then some fleece the buyers with expensive shipping and handling fees. Don't get me wrong, there are a few great auction companies out there, I have used some of them. One problem I encountered is that if the item doesn't sell or the buyer can't pay for the item after bidding on it, then the seller can be out of some serious money including catalog and no-sell fees. They need to do a better job of vetting their bidders! A lot of dealers don't bother with middle men anymore since they can get wholesale prices right off of eBay. Some specialty shops get most of there product from eBay, mark it up considerably and put it on their shelves. The problem is that a lot the collectable items offered on eBay have no expertise behind them and are accidentally or purposely misrepresented. There are reputable independent companies that can authenticate and paper items so COAs are important to me. I wouldn't purchase a valuable coin, baseball card or any other collectable without first seeing that it has been papered through an independent grading and certificate service. A properly papered item will almost always bring in the big bucks in an auction house whereas it may not do so well on eBay where some dealers tend to print their own COAs and grade items themselves. Kind Regards and Happy Collecting, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin
Yeah, I initially had the same reaction as Count...maybe not a good idea to switch the paradigm from in-the-know-competitive-market-driven-values to a free-for-all-mystique-value which eventually would upset at least some of the participants when the competitive-market-driven-values are discovered. Yet, who knows...value is where one finds it. As our passion now enjoys front-stage TV recognition, I'd be wrong to assert that mystique-value, (and throw in celebrity-value, howdy Geoff and Steve!) isn't now a new element; simply check ebay to see how celebrity status carries the day (something I applaud.) I doubt that rare metoeriteswill ever even enter into this arena: imagine if the consigned piece was a 1 gram 100% crusted Tissint...we'd hear the silence in the roomand wish we'd been there to offer $600 for the tiny little thing. Hmmm...this is an interesting thread. Richard Montgomery - Original Message - From: Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net To: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com; meteoritem...@gmail.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin Hi List, Most auctioneers and auction bidders wouldn't be able to tell a meteorite from a charcoal briquet. I think the rock in question sold cheap. The seller could have put $2,000 as the reserve and those bidders would have slugged it out to an even higher figure. Why do I say that? Because what they did proved They didn't know market prices, so they were being motivated by mystique, the Public misconception of value due to popular media BS... and finally...good ole competition between each other. Seen it happen a hundred times. It will keep happening until we screw it up by flooding the small auction houses with meteorites and telling everyone when they have paid too much. And if it bothers you to see someone pay more for something than you would. Then ask yourself...Am I upset because I could have been the seller and made that killing? Or am I upset because somebody made a bad buy? I thought so. Regards, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com Sent: Mar 23, 2012 12:43 PM To: meteoritem...@gmail.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin Mike G wrote: He opens it and brings out a Sikhote Alin shrapnel about the size of a grapefruit. I'd guess the piece would sell on the meteorite market or eBay for about $250-$300. The owner's desired price of $1000 seemed unrealistic to me. Mike, very entertaining! I think I will start meteorite hunting on eBay. I sure would be easier than in the field if what this is true. A Sikhote the size of a grapefruit, if we use the United States Department of Agriculture's (USDA) definition for an average pink grapefruit size, is ... 3.61 kg. So less eBay and paypal commissions, we must be receiving $218 for these Sikhote grapefruits, because we have an addiction to giving stuff away on eBay. ;-) The problem with I caught a fish and it was *this big* is you are building a story around a supposition you have made, when in fact $1000 may have been a reasonable offering price for the meteorite, or it may not have. Do you think 2.29 kg Campo for $749 is a better deal? http://www.galactic-stone.com/product/campo-del-cielo-iron-meteorite--big-centerpiece-specimen-229kg and a bunch of people who don't know jack about meteorites ???: huh? What does an isolated sales price have to do with knowing about meteorites? Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Fri, Mar 23, 2012 10:38 am Subject: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin Hi Folks, So last night I was going through the channel guide on cable TV and I saw that a show called Auction Kings was going to have a segment featuring a meteorite. I had never watched this show before, but I was very curious to see what type of meteorite would be shown. Apparently, the show is about a local auction house somewhere (not sure where). People bring in unusual items and the auction house sells them at open auction while the cameras follow the action. The meteorite segment came and here is where the fun begins This guy walks in carrying a Pelican-style case about the size of a camera case. He opens it and brings out a Sikhote Alin shrapnel about the size of a grapefruit. The meteorite had a nice patina, but the shape was not very interesting or sculpted. In other words, it was what most of us would call a lump, but it was obvious from the appearance that it was a genuine Sikhote. First, the auction house guy was impressed because the meteorite had a certificate of authenticity. I thought this was laughable
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin
Speaking from experience with many auction houses: most houses stay around the 20% range but the bigger ones charge photo fees of $100-$400 and a buy back fee. So are they a better value than eBay? With the major auction houses, I find that about 40-60% of items I consign will sell. Most will sell at my reserve, but 1 in 4 will go for a crazy high price because of bidding wars. So I tend to use eBay for most of my low priced or specimens that are too specialized, while I consign more expensive or pretty items to auction houses. Pretty with a good story sells. - yinan Sent from my iPhone On Mar 23, 2012, at 8:13 PM, Bob Falls bcmeteori...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Adam, I was watching this show the other night (different episode) and did catch them say at the beginning that the auction house takes a 20% sellers premium. I have never worked with an auction house however this does not seem too bad based on the draw this auction seems to have. Best Regards, Bob Falls Colorado Springs, CO -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Adam Hupe Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 9:31 AM To: Adam Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Kings meteorite - $2000 Sikhote Alin A lot of buyers judge the price of collectable items from eBay. EBay is not known for fetching top dollar, especially on collectables. A solid auction house will almost always fetch more than what would be realized on eBay. The problem with many auction houses is that their commissions are out of line, some charging in excess of 40%! Then some fleece the buyers with expensive shipping and handling fees. Don't get me wrong, there are a few great auction companies out there, I have used some of them. One problem I encountered is that if the item doesn't sell or the buyer can't pay for the item after bidding on it, then the seller can be out of some serious money including catalog and no-sell fees. They need to do a better job of vetting their bidders! A lot of dealers don't bother with middle men anymore since they can get wholesale prices right off of eBay. Some specialty shops get most of there product from eBay, mark it up considerably and put it on their shelves. The problem is that a lot the collectable items offered on eBay have no expertise behind them and are accidentally or purposely misrepresented. There are reputable independent companies that can authenticate and paper items so COAs are important to me. I wouldn't purchase a valuable coin, baseball card or any other collectable without first seeing that it has been papered through an independent grading and certificate service. A properly papered item will almost always bring in the big bucks in an auction house whereas it may not do so well on eBay where some dealers tend to print their own COAs and grade items themselves. Kind Regards and Happy Collecting, Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction (ad))
Hi All, There are now 74 (or is it 76?) lots up and the vast majority now Have their photos in. Current rate for consignment is 14%, however, since there is room for 25 more at this late date, I am offering a ONE TIME deal - the next 25 accepted lots by THURSDAY at midnight, will be granted the rate prior to Dec. 16th, 12%. You must have your list of items (Name, type, location, Weight, description) in by Thurs. at midnight but have until BEFORE Saturday 3 PM all jpgs in. ONLY the first 25 items in will get this brake. Auctioneer (that would be me) has the right to decline any lot for any reason, including Low quality, size, value, desire to include a minimum bid, etc. See what;s up now at: http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/AuctionTucson12.html Thanks to all, Michael - Have a MERRY CHRISTMAS season! __ HAPPY HOLIDAYS!! Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Catalog now Up
The 2012 Tucson Auction Catalog is now UP and will continue to grow. People are submitting as I write. As of the moment there Are 60 specimens listed with 15 having Photos and the rest of The photos coming in between tomorrow to 10 days. (By the time all The photos for items currently listed are in there will be numerous Other items added. If you have something nice, now is the time to list it with Me to get it up for people to start drooling. To see the On Line Catalog go to: http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/AuctionTucson12.html NOTE: items are NOT in the order in which they will be listed in the Final catalog - @ mid Jan. when I will also provide an easy-print Version. Thanks, Michael Have a MERRY CHRISTMAS season! __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction
Hi all, Just got back late last night. I spent this afternoon reading how the auction had not gone as well as I had thought at the time. -- I would like to acknowledge it was an error mentioning an absentee bid had hit it's max, even if on a charity item and no such mention at all will be made in the future regardless of the nature of the lot. I also should have unrolled the Giclee print submitted by Michael Gilmer have apologized to him off list, where, of course, most if not all of Such issues would best be addressed. Future auction catalogs will simply state, With Reserve or No Reserve. There will be no indication of what the reserve may be. All consignors will be paid within 10 days or less, absentee bidders will all be contacted and the auction results will be posted on the net (said posting will identify price sold only, of course). -- I would like to thank Suzanne, Lisa Marie Leigh Anne for the Terrific job they all did... And of course a thank you to Ruben for his Making it possible for list members unable to attend in person to be Included. Hope most people enjoyed the show and the auction, Michael __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction
Hi there Captain, don't worry. I mean, almost every year there are complaints on the list about the auctions, about yours or remember about Lang's. I really don't know. As I understood, and as I perceived it, when we were there, your auction is a meteorite-scene-internal event, a fun, a come-together of the meteorite people, entertaining with a little thrill in a familiar atmosphere. Hence not first and foremost a commercial event to earn money. (For that, everyone can at anytime play in that anonymous ebay-thing or they can give their stuff to professional auction houses). I don't know, those who almost every year complain, I doubt that they would be happier if your auction wouldn't take place anymore. And to hire a professional auctioneer, adding additionally high surcharges on the hammer prices, makes no sense, especially because such one would always be a person, who can't have any ideas about the lots he is auctioning. So I find it a little bit weird, that there are less list-postings than rant-mails, which simply say: Thank you, Captain Blood and all the helpers, for doing that all each year. Best! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Michael Blood Gesendet: Mittwoch, 9. Februar 2011 10:02 An: Meteorite List Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Hi all, Just got back late last night. I spent this afternoon reading how the auction had not gone as well as I had thought at the time. -- I would like to acknowledge it was an error mentioning an absentee bid had hit it's max, even if on a charity item and no such mention at all will be made in the future regardless of the nature of the lot. I also should have unrolled the Giclee print submitted by Michael Gilmer have apologized to him off list, where, of course, most if not all of Such issues would best be addressed. Future auction catalogs will simply state, With Reserve or No Reserve. There will be no indication of what the reserve may be. All consignors will be paid within 10 days or less, absentee bidders will all be contacted and the auction results will be posted on the net (said posting will identify price sold only, of course). -- I would like to thank Suzanne, Lisa Marie Leigh Anne for the Terrific job they all did... And of course a thank you to Ruben for his Making it possible for list members unable to attend in person to be Included. Hope most people enjoyed the show and the auction, Michael __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction
Michael, You are a stand up guy. Very few men have the intestinal fortitude to acknowledge an error and announce that they are taking steps to better serve their clients. As our Aussie mates would say Good on ya!. Those lovelies that work so hard for you, Suzzane, Lisa Marie and Leigh Anne, put a great face on your sale and are admired by many. Ruben and his helpers did yeoman work in giving we absentee bidders a chance to participate (and criticize):0} See you next year, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Michael Blood mlbl...@cox.net Sent: Feb 9, 2011 1:02 AM To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Hi all, Just got back late last night. I spent this afternoon reading how the auction had not gone as well as I had thought at the time. -- I would like to acknowledge it was an error mentioning an absentee bid had hit it's max, even if on a charity item and no such mention at all will be made in the future regardless of the nature of the lot. I also should have unrolled the Giclee print submitted by Michael Gilmer have apologized to him off list, where, of course, most if not all of Such issues would best be addressed. Future auction catalogs will simply state, With Reserve or No Reserve. There will be no indication of what the reserve may be. All consignors will be paid within 10 days or less, absentee bidders will all be contacted and the auction results will be posted on the net (said posting will identify price sold only, of course). -- I would like to thank Suzanne, Lisa Marie Leigh Anne for the Terrific job they all did... And of course a thank you to Ruben for his Making it possible for list members unable to attend in person to be Included. Hope most people enjoyed the show and the auction, Michael __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Policies
I would hope not. Floor bidders don't announce how high they are willing to go unless they make a bid for that amount and just don't increase it. Telling all the bidders present how much absentee bidders are willing to pay gives those in attendance an unfair advantage, as they can decide whether or not to up their bid. Absentee bidders can't, unless they have arranged to follow the action and can bid remotely, and I don't think real-time absentee bids are a feature yet of our meteorite auction. Wish I could have been there! Best! Tracy Latimer To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com From: fallingfus...@wi.rr.com Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 16:56:40 + Subject: [meteorite-list] Auction Policies Good morning everyone. I am wondering what auction policies are for absentee bids placed in a live auction. Is the highest maximum absentee bid normally announced to the floor bidder(s) that is/are actively bidding on that particular lot? I would find such a practice to be of advantage to the bidders in attendance, especially when the amount is announced just moments before the hammer is being raised for last call. Ryan Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Policies
Hello, If I had been an absentee bidder, I would of been VERY angry as to how it went down. It is extremely unfair to absentee bidders to announce ...ok folks hear is the highest absentee bid, let's move pass it and get on with the auction for all those who are here. Best Wishes Michael Cottingham On Feb 6, 2011, at 10:10 AM, tracy latimer wrote: I would hope not. Floor bidders don't announce how high they are willing to go unless they make a bid for that amount and just don't increase it. Telling all the bidders present how much absentee bidders are willing to pay gives those in attendance an unfair advantage, as they can decide whether or not to up their bid. Absentee bidders can't, unless they have arranged to follow the action and can bid remotely, and I don't think real-time absentee bids are a feature yet of our meteorite auction. Wish I could have been there! Best! Tracy Latimer To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com From: fallingfus...@wi.rr.com Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2011 16:56:40 + Subject: [meteorite-list] Auction Policies Good morning everyone. I am wondering what auction policies are for absentee bids placed in a live auction. Is the highest maximum absentee bid normally announced to the floor bidder(s) that is/are actively bidding on that particular lot? I would find such a practice to be of advantage to the bidders in attendance, especially when the amount is announced just moments before the hammer is being raised for last call. Ryan Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Policies
I agree with Tracy and Michael regarding announcing the absentee bids during the auction, that absentee bids should NEVER be announced. Falling Fusion asked it as a neutral question for anyone to answer pro or con, but those watching through the live stream and those in the room have all mentioned they didn't think it was right to announce those amounts. I was watching via the online feed and everyone was able to post comments real time in the chat area to the right of the streaming video. There were a LOT of Unhappy People who had put in absentee bids and were upset that they were announced before the auction commenced. I've bid through several live online Auction Houses such as Heritage Auction House and if they ever gave out the absentee bids or any Houses such as Christie's or Sotheby's ever gave out absentee bid amounts and announced those before an auction, they'd all be bankrupt with lawsuits. Let's make sure next year that those PRIVATE absentee bid amounts, are indeed kept PRIVATE! Have a great day! Brian Cox IMCA # 6387 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] AUCTION POLICIES TECHNIQUES
Hi Count and List, So I guess this means that when selling artwork, one should remove it from the mailing tube during bidding? Best regards, MikeG On 2/6/11, Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net wrote: Dear List, I realize that this post is going to be painful and embarrassing for some to read, but more than a few attending and watching the auction last night were confused and critical of how it was conducted. Today more than a couple of Listers have asked on line for clarification of generally accepted auction policies. As I am uniquely qualified, not only as a participant in this auction, (I was bidding over the phone while watching on Ruben’s streaming video) but a professional auctioneer with over thirty five years of experience, I will offer these criticisms and explanations. I owned and have operated some of the largest auction firms in the nation since receiving my Certified Auctioneer Institute professional designation from Indiana University in 1985. Prior to that, I attended Missouri Auction School and served an apprenticeship at Sothebys in New York. I became licensed in eight states. I was the Charter President of the Nevada State Auctioneers Association. My firms have sold, and I have gaveled down, over a billion dollars in real and personal property, even some meteorites at this auction last year. I have sold my auction interests to family members and have been of counsel to our firms and other companies for the past 15 years. So the qualifying remarks having been made…here we go: SOME (NOT ALL) AUCTION POLICIES AND TECHNIQUES Auctioneers have a legal fiduciary obligation to Consignors. They should be knowledgeable of the items they sell and should be able to pronounce names and make accurate descriptions. An auctioneer has to know the retail value of every lot and have examples to quote to the audience, so that he can open the bid at a sum that encourages bidders to bid on the money. Opening a $500 item at $20 is incompetence. Getting an opening bid that is off the money...say $100 on a $500 item and then asking for $120 instead of $200 is something you learn not to do the first day at auction school. It is critical that auctioneers make the audience believe they know what they are selling, and what it’s worth, so that bidders will have confidence to bid what is being asked. Failing to answer legitimate questions from bidders ruins credibility. Never say “I have $200”. Auctioneers don’t have anything. Better to say “at $200”, or $200 is bid.” Taking a bid from an opening bidder, and then acquiring another bid and then not go immediately back to the opening bidder is insulting to him. Work the first to bidders dry…then take a competing bid. Saves time and respects the first bidders. All auctioneers should employ trained ring persons. They are invaluable in encouraging bidders, showing lots, and answering questions like “where we at?” or “what’s the bid?” It is not accepted practice for an auctioneer to bid on his own behalf, even if he does not own the goods being sold. If he does, he should never announce the fact, as it tends to discourage bidding and hurts his consignors and credibility. He should have several house numbers to sell a passed lot to, or a lot that didn’t meet an undisclosed reserve, or a lot he has bought. Do not disclose reserves. Do not announce the mail in bids. Give the mail bidder a number and use it as if in the audience. If you disclose the mail in bid maximum before selling the lot you are in deep kimchee. Phone bids should be handled by staff, with a bidder number and the auctioneer should not say “on the phone”. Merely acknowledge staff’s raised hand. You sell to a number…not a person. As a general rule do not identify bidders by calling out their name. It can do no good and may stop a bid because of a personal issue. Bid calling is an art form. One should develop a pleasing appearance and voice. Use rhythm chants on small amounts and walking chants on the big numbers. The audience gets comfortable in following you and entertained and the sale moves quickly. Start on time and be prepared. Inform the audience of the order of sale and the terms and conditions before calling for the first lot.Introduce your staff and mention who to see for check out and pick up. Arrange lots to develop and keep interest and drama. Don’t bunch smalls one after the other…bidders will get bored and not bid on these items hurting the consignor. Scatter smalls through the sale. Don’t place late entries at the end of a sale. Give them the respect they deserve and place them through the sale by saying “additional lot number so and so”. Give a proper description. If you add undisclosed lots at the end of a sale you will have lost the bulk of the bidders and hurt the consignor. Tell the audience that there are late entries scattered through the sale and that they are on display at the front. It
Re: [meteorite-list] AUCTION POLICIES TECHNIQUES
Goes without saying. That was sad. Count Deiro -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com Sent: Feb 6, 2011 2:06 PM To: Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net Cc: i...@imcamail.de, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AUCTION POLICIES TECHNIQUES Hi Count and List, So I guess this means that when selling artwork, one should remove it from the mailing tube during bidding? Best regards, MikeG On 2/6/11, Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net wrote: Dear List, I realize that this post is going to be painful and embarrassing for some to read, but more than a few attending and watching the auction last night were confused and critical of how it was conducted. Today more than a couple of Listers have asked on line for clarification of generally accepted auction policies. As I am uniquely qualified, not only as a participant in this auction, (I was bidding over the phone while watching on Ruben’s streaming video) but a professional auctioneer with over thirty five years of experience, I will offer these criticisms and explanations. I owned and have operated some of the largest auction firms in the nation since receiving my Certified Auctioneer Institute professional designation from Indiana University in 1985. Prior to that, I attended Missouri Auction School and served an apprenticeship at Sothebys in New York. I became licensed in eight states. I was the Charter President of the Nevada State Auctioneers Association. My firms have sold, and I have gaveled down, over a billion dollars in real and personal property, even some meteorites at this auction last year. I have sold my auction interests to family members and have been of counsel to our firms and other companies for the past 15 years. So the qualifying remarks having been made…here we go: SOME (NOT ALL) AUCTION POLICIES AND TECHNIQUES Auctioneers have a legal fiduciary obligation to Consignors. They should be knowledgeable of the items they sell and should be able to pronounce names and make accurate descriptions. An auctioneer has to know the retail value of every lot and have examples to quote to the audience, so that he can open the bid at a sum that encourages bidders to bid on the money. Opening a $500 item at $20 is incompetence. Getting an opening bid that is off the money...say $100 on a $500 item and then asking for $120 instead of $200 is something you learn not to do the first day at auction school. It is critical that auctioneers make the audience believe they know what they are selling, and what it’s worth, so that bidders will have confidence to bid what is being asked. Failing to answer legitimate questions from bidders ruins credibility. Never say “I have $200”. Auctioneers don’t have anything. Better to say “at $200”, or $200 is bid.” Taking a bid from an opening bidder, and then acquiring another bid and then not go immediately back to the opening bidder is insulting to him. Work the first to bidders dry…then take a competing bid. Saves time and respects the first bidders. All auctioneers should employ trained ring persons. They are invaluable in encouraging bidders, showing lots, and answering questions like “where we at?” or “what’s the bid?” It is not accepted practice for an auctioneer to bid on his own behalf, even if he does not own the goods being sold. If he does, he should never announce the fact, as it tends to discourage bidding and hurts his consignors and credibility. He should have several house numbers to sell a passed lot to, or a lot that didn’t meet an undisclosed reserve, or a lot he has bought. Do not disclose reserves. Do not announce the mail in bids. Give the mail bidder a number and use it as if in the audience. If you disclose the mail in bid maximum before selling the lot you are in deep kimchee. Phone bids should be handled by staff, with a bidder number and the auctioneer should not say “on the phone”. Merely acknowledge staff’s raised hand. You sell to a number…not a person. As a general rule do not identify bidders by calling out their name. It can do no good and may stop a bid because of a personal issue. Bid calling is an art form. One should develop a pleasing appearance and voice. Use rhythm chants on small amounts and walking chants on the big numbers. The audience gets comfortable in following you and entertained and the sale moves quickly. Start on time and be prepared. Inform the audience of the order of sale and the terms and conditions before calling for the first lot.Introduce your staff and mention who to see for check out and pick up. Arrange lots to develop and keep interest and drama. Don’t bunch smalls one after the other…bidders will get bored and not bid on these items hurting the consignor. Scatter smalls through the sale. Don’t place late entries at the end of a sale. Give them the respect they deserve and place them through the sale
Re: [meteorite-list] AUCTION POLICIES TECHNIQUES
In defense of the auction, I was there in person...as I have been for many other auctions of all kinds. While I was not LOOKING for any improprieties, I did not notice any.with the possible exception of the artwork in the tube. All in all, we had a wonderful time at the auction, and didn't feel that anything was done incorrectly. Just my opinion. Tucson has been a wonderful experience and I would not have traded this trip for anything. Thanks to everyone for making us feel right at home in the community. Barrett Roxanne Flowers SLC, UT Fallen Star Hunters -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Count Deiro Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 2:35 PM To: i...@imcamail.de; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] AUCTION POLICIES TECHNIQUES Dear List, I realize that this post is going to be painful and embarrassing for some to read, but more than a few attending and watching the auction last night were confused and critical of how it was conducted. Today more than a couple of Listers have asked on line for clarification of generally accepted auction policies. As I am uniquely qualified, not only as a participant in this auction, (I was bidding over the phone while watching on Ruben’s streaming video) but a professional auctioneer with over thirty five years of experience, I will offer these criticisms and explanations. I owned and have operated some of the largest auction firms in the nation since receiving my Certified Auctioneer Institute professional designation from Indiana University in 1985. Prior to that, I attended Missouri Auction School and served an apprenticeship at Sothebys in New York. I became licensed in eight states. I was the Charter President of the Nevada State Auctioneers Association. My firms have sold, and I have gaveled down, over a billion dollars in real and personal property, even some meteorites at this auction last year. I have sold my auction interests to family members and have been of counsel to our firms and other companies for the past 15 years. So the qualifying remarks having been made…here we go: SOME (NOT ALL) AUCTION POLICIES AND TECHNIQUES Auctioneers have a legal fiduciary obligation to Consignors. They should be knowledgeable of the items they sell and should be able to pronounce names and make accurate descriptions. An auctioneer has to know the retail value of every lot and have examples to quote to the audience, so that he can open the bid at a sum that encourages bidders to bid on the money. Opening a $500 item at $20 is incompetence. Getting an opening bid that is off the money...say $100 on a $500 item and then asking for $120 instead of $200 is something you learn not to do the first day at auction school. It is critical that auctioneers make the audience believe they know what they are selling, and what it’s worth, so that bidders will have confidence to bid what is being asked. Failing to answer legitimate questions from bidders ruins credibility. Never say “I have $200”. Auctioneers don’t have anything. Better to say “at $200”, or $200 is bid.” Taking a bid from an opening bidder, and then acquiring another bid and then not go immediately back to the opening bidder is insulting to him. Work the first to bidders dry…then take a competing bid. Saves time and respects the first bidders. All auctioneers should employ trained ring persons. They are invaluable in encouraging bidders, showing lots, and answering questions like “where we at?” or “what’s the bid?” It is not accepted practice for an auctioneer to bid on his own behalf, even if he does not own the goods being sold. If he does, he should never announce the fact, as it tends to discourage bidding and hurts his consignors and credibility. He should have several house numbers to sell a passed lot to, or a lot that didn’t meet an undisclosed reserve, or a lot he has bought. Do not disclose reserves. Do not announce the mail in bids. Give the mail bidder a number and use it as if in the audience. If you disclose the mail in bid maximum before selling the lot you are in deep kimchee. Phone bids should be handled by staff, with a bidder number and the auctioneer should not say “on the phone”. Merely acknowledge staff’s raised hand. You sell to a number…not a person. As a general rule do not identify bidders by calling out their name. It can do no good and may stop a bid because of a personal issue. Bid calling is an art form. One should develop a pleasing appearance and voice. Use rhythm chants on small amounts and walking chants on the big numbers. The audience gets comfortable in following you and entertained and the sale moves quickly. Start on time and be prepared. Inform the audience of the order of sale and the terms and conditions before calling for the first lot.Introduce your staff and mention who to
Re: [meteorite-list] AUCTION POLICIES TECHNIQUES
Lets stay on point here. The question on List from several members was what are acceptable auction practices? and asked that someone who knew respond. I knew, so I listed some acceptable auction practices. Nowhere in my dissertation is there a mention of last night's auction other than that more than a few consignors and bidders were confused and critical by their personal experiences and this prompted them to ask for an opinion of acceptable practices. I attended last night's sale online and bid through cell phone to the room. I opened at $500 without the block prompting and bid up to $860.00 for the Meteorite Men package solely to benefit IMCA. I did the same thing last year on the IMCA lot. This year I saw the lot knocked down to the only other bidder for a dollar more than my bid. Should we put in the non acceptable practices...don't sell out bidders who are bidding in three figure amounts by taking dollar bids? I think so. It encourages wags in the audience to cheap shot because they think it's humorous and if the auctioneer allows this, it lowers the price that can be obtained. An auctioneer with a lot that could bring a thousand has a hard row to hoe trying to get there after accepting a one dollar bid. It also pisses off the other legitimate bidder and they may stop bidding. I did. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Barrett Flowers barret...@comcast.net Sent: Feb 6, 2011 5:31 PM To: 'Count Deiro' countde...@earthlink.net, i...@imcamail.de, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] AUCTION POLICIES TECHNIQUES In defense of the auction, I was there in person...as I have been for many other auctions of all kinds. While I was not LOOKING for any improprieties, I did not notice any.with the possible exception of the artwork in the tube. All in all, we had a wonderful time at the auction, and didn't feel that anything was done incorrectly. Just my opinion. Tucson has been a wonderful experience and I would not have traded this trip for anything. Thanks to everyone for making us feel right at home in the community. Barrett Roxanne Flowers SLC, UT Fallen Star Hunters -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Count Deiro Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 2:35 PM To: i...@imcamail.de; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] AUCTION POLICIES TECHNIQUES Dear List, I realize that this post is going to be painful and embarrassing for some to read, but more than a few attending and watching the auction last night were confused and critical of how it was conducted. Today more than a couple of Listers have asked on line for clarification of generally accepted auction policies. As I am uniquely qualified, not only as a participant in this auction, (I was bidding over the phone while watching on Ruben’s streaming video) but a professional auctioneer with over thirty five years of experience, I will offer these criticisms and explanations. I owned and have operated some of the largest auction firms in the nation since receiving my Certified Auctioneer Institute professional designation from Indiana University in 1985. Prior to that, I attended Missouri Auction School and served an apprenticeship at Sothebys in New York. I became licensed in eight states. I was the Charter President of the Nevada State Auctioneers Association. My firms have sold, and I have gaveled down, over a billion dollars in real and personal property, even some meteorites at this auction last year. I have sold my auction interests to family members and have been of counsel to our firms and other companies for the past 15 years. So the qualifying remarks having been made…here we go: SOME (NOT ALL) AUCTION POLICIES AND TECHNIQUES Auctioneers have a legal fiduciary obligation to Consignors. They should be knowledgeable of the items they sell and should be able to pronounce names and make accurate descriptions. An auctioneer has to know the retail value of every lot and have examples to quote to the audience, so that he can open the bid at a sum that encourages bidders to bid on the money. Opening a $500 item at $20 is incompetence. Getting an opening bid that is off the money...say $100 on a $500 item and then asking for $120 instead of $200 is something you learn not to do the first day at auction school. It is critical that auctioneers make the audience believe they know what they are selling, and what it’s worth, so that bidders will have confidence to bid what is being asked. Failing to answer legitimate questions from bidders ruins credibility. Never say “I have $200”. Auctioneers don’t have anything. Better to say “at $200”, or $200 is bid.” Taking a bid from an opening bidder, and then acquiring another bid and then not go immediately back to the opening bidder is insulting to him. Work
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction UPDATE (ad)
Greetings all, Most unfortunately, the ever engaging Anita Westlake of Georgia will not be able to attend the Tucson Show this year, so we lost her as a presenter at the pre-auction activities - as well as the pleasure of her Company throughout the show(: HOWEVER: John Blennert has agreed to give the talk at 6PM at the Auction. John is the accepted King of Gold Basin. His accomplishments in that strewn field include but are not limited to: - Coordinated with Dr. Jim Kriegh in mapping the strewn field, recording the location of every find - Has donated hundreds of his GB finds to institutions - Is an accomplished gold finder - The guy is a magician! I swear I hunted 15 yards to his right and meteorites nearly jumped out of the ground into his pockets! In 20 minutes he had more than he could carry! - Has proven himself to be someone EVERYONE likes. IF GOLD BASIN INTERESTS, YOU THIS IS A MUST LECTURE. Other notes: - There are still spaces for 10 or more items if you have anything special. - Darryl Pitt will be entering 2 more special items (today or tomorrow?) And Twink will be entering several more pieces of meteorite jewelry. - Of the 81 items entered to date, only ONE has a minimum bid - and it is The entirely unique, Lovina (ANOM Iron). ALL OTHER ITEMS ARE NO MINIMUM. - Only a few more days remain to get in Absentee bids. Only a handful have come in to date. RSVP (off list, of course) Thanks, Michael __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Results
Hi All, The auction results are up and can be seen through Feb. at: http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/TucsonMetAuctionPRINT.html Best wishes, Michael __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction
Hi Meteorite folks, For those that missed it - results of the Auction can be seen a few more days at: http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/AuctionTucson09.html For sellers: Everyone has long since been PayPaled (for those that preferred that form of payment) or mailed A check. If you have not received a check, please let me know, As these all went out by Feb 8 9. The following have yet to provide me with an address: Chicago Steve Eric Olson Bob Verish's check is here, as per his request. If you want, I will be happy to drop it in a mailbox for you, Bob. Thanks to everyone that made the 10th annual Tucson Meteorite Auction a success. Best wishes, Michael __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Results now posted
Hi all, Given that in the past people have enthusiastically Requested auction results be posted, they are now up (at: http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/AuctionTucson09.html Again, auctions are NOT an indication of Market Value. They indicate the interests of the few people there AND the Limits of their pocket books (which are stretched to breaking At the Tucson Show) I passed on over 20 % of the offerings I wanted, primarily because regardless of the deal I could not, at that time, afford them. (I also do not like bidding against Participants except when outright theft is attempted (when People refuse to open the bidding WAY below value). Anyway, results are now up for whatever reason people Are driven to kick themselves for. Also, please note that the Last minute crash of my computer system resulted in a total Loss of absentee bids. A couple people phoned me at the last Minute, but they were out bid in the action. My nomination for the best price brought was the late Numbered thin Imilac slice. It was as close to perfect as one Could get and sold for over $18/g. Given its perfection, it might Also have been one of the best buys. The carbonado diamonds Were also VERY good deals, but the one people really missed On was likely the NWA2737 (Chassignite) at a minimum of only $1,500/g for a one gram slice. VERY nice and a steal compared To the $50K/g for Chassigny. A couple people snapped up a couple Of Jerry Armstrong Prints at below cost, as well. I was shocked To see the quality of his reproductions compared to the computer Image on my web page of his work - and I am told his talk was Both fun and very informative. Best wishes, Michael __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Results? - any word
Hi all. Since this is very related to meteorites, why not list the results on the meteorite list? After all, the info will probably not be available in the near future on their site. I know, this topic was talked about the last few auctions. Cheers, Roman Jirasek - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 9:22 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Results? - any word In a message dated 6/11/2008 7:41:49 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What you need to do is go to the Heritage web site, register, then you can gain access to the results. T. Bunch Thanks. Interesting results. I would assume that if a lot is not listed in the Auctions Results Archives it would mean that particular lot did not reach the reserve price, and did not sale, although I didn't read that explanation anywhere on the site. Seems like prices pretty much hit the expected prices, a few up above estimates, a few below. Steve Arnold #1 **Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg0005000102) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.1.322) Database version: 5.1 http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor/ E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.1.322) Database version: 5.10020e http://www.pctools.com/en/spyware-doctor/ __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Results? - any word
What you need to do is go to the Heritage web site, register, then you can gain access to the results. T. Bunch On 6/11/08 4:09 PM, Timothy Heitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi List, Any word on the results of the Auction yet? Tim Heitz NEW WEB SITE Midwest Meteorites - http://www.meteorman.org/ -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2008 1:50 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Auction Results? Hey Guys, Anyone with the results of the Auction this last weekend? All I saw in the news was that Michigan sold for $20,000, and the 3/4 ton Nantan went for $90,000. Steve Arnold #1 **Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg0005000102) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Results? - any word
In a message dated 6/11/2008 7:41:49 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What you need to do is go to the Heritage web site, register, then you can gain access to the results. T. Bunch Thanks. Interesting results. I would assume that if a lot is not listed in the Auctions Results Archives it would mean that particular lot did not reach the reserve price, and did not sale, although I didn't read that explanation anywhere on the site. Seems like prices pretty much hit the expected prices, a few up above estimates, a few below. Steve Arnold #1 **Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg0005000102) __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction at Bonhams on April 30 in New York.
All, I had a similar experience to Patrick's. Very well handled from front to finish... Dave www.fallingrocks.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 1:42 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction at Bonhams on April 30 in New York. I have bid on a number of items at the last Bonham auction, and everything went extremely well. I won 2 items with the opening bid, way below the maximum that I had bid online, and I won one other item while on the phone with them, bidding live. Shipping was handled via a shipping agent that Bonham had recommended. Within a day of the auction they picked my items up at the Bonham office, packed it up and shipped it with FedEx overnight. It cost a few hundred bucks, but for all that it seemed reasonable. That was my experience anyways. I am looking forward to the coming auction - looks like they have some good stuff lined up again. All the best...,... -- Patrick www.pallasite.ca -- Original Message --- From: mckinney trammell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Timothy Heitz [EMAIL PROTECTED], Meteorite Mailing List meteorite- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 07:11:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction at Bonhams on April 30 in New York. avoid like plague! i did on of those absentee bids and they shilled me right up to the penny. further more, the shipping was EXTREME price AND... when i got the items (shark teeth) they were SHORT!!! theyb LIED about the length!!! i f you can't be there, you are setting yourself up for dissaster !!! --- Timothy Heitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello List, Does anyone know if any other meteorites are being offered? Tim Heitz Midwest Meteorite - http://www.meteorman.org/ Go to Google News Rare meteorite goes under hammer 10 hours ago A meteorite is expected to fetch £500,000 at auction in New York this month. Weighing more than 925lbs, the object was discovered eight years ago in China's Xinjiang Uygar province. Its rare olivine crystals endured atmospheric and impact forces as it crashed down to Earth. Bonhams' Natural History Department director Thomas Lindgren said: Less than 1% of all meteorites are pallasites, the most alluring of all meteorites due to their aesthetic appeal. Pallasites - meteorites composed of around 50% olivine and peridot crystals and 50% nickel-iron - are thought to be relics of forming planets. The Fukang meteorite will go under the hammer at Bonhams on April 30 in New York. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ ___ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list --- End of Original Message --- __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction at Bonhams on April 30 in New York.
avoid like plague! i did on of those absentee bids and they shilled me right up to the penny. further more, the shipping was EXTREME price AND... when i got the items (shark teeth) they were SHORT!!! theyb LIED about the length!!! i f you can't be there, you are setting yourself up for dissaster !!! --- Timothy Heitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello List, Does anyone know if any other meteorites are being offered? Tim Heitz Midwest Meteorite - http://www.meteorman.org/ Go to Google News Rare meteorite goes under hammer 10 hours ago A meteorite is expected to fetch £500,000 at auction in New York this month. Weighing more than 925lbs, the object was discovered eight years ago in China's Xinjiang Uygar province. Its rare olivine crystals endured atmospheric and impact forces as it crashed down to Earth. Bonhams' Natural History Department director Thomas Lindgren said: Less than 1% of all meteorites are pallasites, the most alluring of all meteorites due to their aesthetic appeal. Pallasites - meteorites composed of around 50% olivine and peridot crystals and 50% nickel-iron - are thought to be relics of forming planets. The Fukang meteorite will go under the hammer at Bonhams on April 30 in New York. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction at Bonhams on April 30 in New York.
I've bid on several items - autograph letters of scientists - in auctions overseas (the Netherlands and Australia), and it's similar to the rules to follow with meteorite or any other dealers - know who you are dealing with and ask plenty of questions. In one Australian auction, I heard of the problem with expensive shipping costs - that appears to be how many auction houses make part of their money - they subcontract the shipping to an expensive shipper - I obtained an estimate of the shipping costs before bidding, and the final cost for shipping agreed with the quote. In another auction in the Netherlands, I submitted an absentee bid, and won significantly below my maximum bid. I know Bonhams is a well-known acution house, although I have never bid with them, but just because they are well known, doesn't mean that everything will go smoothly. Best thing, as Timothy mentions, is to inspect the merchandise before the bidding if at all possible and get a quote for the shipping. If you can't attend, don't bid too much and ask plenty of questions and for photos. If you don't get satisfactory answwers, don't bid. The good acution houses will accomodate your questions. If I did not take the chance to bid on many of the overseas items sight unseen, I wouldn't have some great items in my collection. So, you have to way the costs and benefits. Just my two cents. Mark Grossman - Original Message - From: mckinney trammell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Timothy Heitz [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite Mailing List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 10:11 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction at Bonhams on April 30 in New York. avoid like plague! i did on of those absentee bids and they shilled me right up to the penny. further more, the shipping was EXTREME price AND... when i got the items (shark teeth) they were SHORT!!! theyb LIED about the length!!! i f you can't be there, you are setting yourself up for dissaster !!! --- Timothy Heitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello List, Does anyone know if any other meteorites are being offered? Tim Heitz Midwest Meteorite - http://www.meteorman.org/ Go to Google News Rare meteorite goes under hammer 10 hours ago A meteorite is expected to fetch £500,000 at auction in New York this month. Weighing more than 925lbs, the object was discovered eight years ago in China's Xinjiang Uygar province. Its rare olivine crystals endured atmospheric and impact forces as it crashed down to Earth. Bonhams' Natural History Department director Thomas Lindgren said: Less than 1% of all meteorites are pallasites, the most alluring of all meteorites due to their aesthetic appeal. Pallasites - meteorites composed of around 50% olivine and peridot crystals and 50% nickel-iron - are thought to be relics of forming planets. The Fukang meteorite will go under the hammer at Bonhams on April 30 in New York. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction at Bonhams on April 30 in New York.
yikes. while i appreciate your frustration, a few tips: ---if at all possible, you do want to rely on shipping organized by an auction house. this is typically subcontracted to bonded art shippers (i.e., expensive shippers) or the buyer is provided a list of such bonded shippers from which to choose. ---if the value of a purchased lot is predicated and the length of the specimen (e.g., shark's tooth), and the measurement is significantly off (and i assure you it's not bonhams which has made the error but a misrepresentation on the part of the consignor), you have every right to return the specimen as being falsely represented. in some instances, you may even be able to negotiate a better deal. --finally, (and sometimes i have trouble remembering this one) only bid an amount at which you will be delighted if your bid is successful---even if your success was achieved by your paying the full amount of your absentee bid. all best to my friends in meteorites dp On Apr 7, 2008, at 10:11 AM, mckinney trammell wrote: avoid like plague! i did on of those absentee bids and they shilled me right up to the penny. further more, the shipping was EXTREME price AND... when i got the items (shark teeth) they were SHORT!!! theyb LIED about the length!!! i f you can't be there, you are setting yourself up for dissaster !!! --- Timothy Heitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello List, Does anyone know if any other meteorites are being offered? Tim Heitz Midwest Meteorite - http://www.meteorman.org/ Go to Google News Rare meteorite goes under hammer 10 hours ago A meteorite is expected to fetch £500,000 at auction in New York this month. Weighing more than 925lbs, the object was discovered eight years ago in China's Xinjiang Uygar province. Its rare olivine crystals endured atmospheric and impact forces as it crashed down to Earth. Bonhams' Natural History Department director Thomas Lindgren said: Less than 1% of all meteorites are pallasites, the most alluring of all meteorites due to their aesthetic appeal. Pallasites - meteorites composed of around 50% olivine and peridot crystals and 50% nickel-iron - are thought to be relics of forming planets. The Fukang meteorite will go under the hammer at Bonhams on April 30 in New York. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ __ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction at Bonhams on April 30 in New York.
Hi all I just emailed them about two photos that were incorrect (Ness County and Barwell). Both have been taken down. Hopefully they will put up the correct pictures soon. I also wish they would just use the correct approved names for the meteorites. Mike Mike Jensen Jensen Meteorites 16730 E Ada PL Aurora, CO 80017-3137 303-337-4361 IMCA 4264 website: www.jensenmeteorites.com On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 8:45 AM, Darryl Pitt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: yikes. while i appreciate your frustration, a few tips: ---if at all possible, you do want to rely on shipping organized by an auction house. this is typically subcontracted to bonded art shippers (i.e., expensive shippers) or the buyer is provided a list of such bonded shippers from which to choose. ---if the value of a purchased lot is predicated and the length of the specimen (e.g., shark's tooth), and the measurement is significantly off (and i assure you it's not bonhams which has made the error but a misrepresentation on the part of the consignor), you have every right to return the specimen as being falsely represented. in some instances, you may even be able to negotiate a better deal. --finally, (and sometimes i have trouble remembering this one) only bid an amount at which you will be delighted if your bid is successful---even if your success was achieved by your paying the full amount of your absentee bid. all best to my friends in meteorites dp On Apr 7, 2008, at 10:11 AM, mckinney trammell wrote: avoid like plague! i did on of those absentee bids and they shilled me right up to the penny. further more, the shipping was EXTREME price AND... when i got the items (shark teeth) they were SHORT!!! theyb LIED about the length!!! i f you can't be there, you are setting yourself up for dissaster !!! --- Timothy Heitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello List, Does anyone know if any other meteorites are being offered? Tim Heitz Midwest Meteorite - http://www.meteorman.org/ Go to Google News Rare meteorite goes under hammer 10 hours ago A meteorite is expected to fetch £500,000 at auction in New York this month. Weighing more than 925lbs, the object was discovered eight years ago in China's Xinjiang Uygar province. Its rare olivine crystals endured atmospheric and impact forces as it crashed down to Earth. Bonhams' Natural History Department director Thomas Lindgren said: Less than 1% of all meteorites are pallasites, the most alluring of all meteorites due to their aesthetic appeal. Pallasites - meteorites composed of around 50% olivine and peridot crystals and 50% nickel-iron - are thought to be relics of forming planets. The Fukang meteorite will go under the hammer at Bonhams on April 30 in New York. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction at Bonhams on April 30 in New York.
I have bid on a number of items at the last Bonham auction, and everything went extremely well. I won 2 items with the opening bid, way below the maximum that I had bid online, and I won one other item while on the phone with them, bidding live. Shipping was handled via a shipping agent that Bonham had recommended. Within a day of the auction they picked my items up at the Bonham office, packed it up and shipped it with FedEx overnight. It cost a few hundred bucks, but for all that it seemed reasonable. That was my experience anyways. I am looking forward to the coming auction - looks like they have some good stuff lined up again. All the best...,... -- Patrick www.pallasite.ca -- Original Message --- From: mckinney trammell [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Timothy Heitz [EMAIL PROTECTED], Meteorite Mailing List meteorite- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 07:11:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction at Bonhams on April 30 in New York. avoid like plague! i did on of those absentee bids and they shilled me right up to the penny. further more, the shipping was EXTREME price AND... when i got the items (shark teeth) they were SHORT!!! theyb LIED about the length!!! i f you can't be there, you are setting yourself up for dissaster !!! --- Timothy Heitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello List, Does anyone know if any other meteorites are being offered? Tim Heitz Midwest Meteorite - http://www.meteorman.org/ Go to Google News Rare meteorite goes under hammer 10 hours ago A meteorite is expected to fetch £500,000 at auction in New York this month. Weighing more than 925lbs, the object was discovered eight years ago in China's Xinjiang Uygar province. Its rare olivine crystals endured atmospheric and impact forces as it crashed down to Earth. Bonhams' Natural History Department director Thomas Lindgren said: Less than 1% of all meteorites are pallasites, the most alluring of all meteorites due to their aesthetic appeal. Pallasites - meteorites composed of around 50% olivine and peridot crystals and 50% nickel-iron - are thought to be relics of forming planets. The Fukang meteorite will go under the hammer at Bonhams on April 30 in New York. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ ___ You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list --- End of Original Message --- __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction at Bonhams on April 30 in New York.
This may be just a wild guess, but maybe Bonhams has the auction listed on their website since it is less than a month away. --- Timothy Heitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello List, Does anyone know if any other meteorites are being offered? Tim Heitz Midwest Meteorite - http://www.meteorman.org/ Go to Google News Rare meteorite goes under hammer 10 hours ago A meteorite is expected to fetch £500,000 at auction in New York this month. Weighing more than 925lbs, the object was discovered eight years ago in China's Xinjiang Uygar province. Its rare olivine crystals endured atmospheric and impact forces as it crashed down to Earth. Bonhams' Natural History Department director Thomas Lindgren said: Less than 1% of all meteorites are pallasites, the most alluring of all meteorites due to their aesthetic appeal. Pallasites - meteorites composed of around 50% olivine and peridot crystals and 50% nickel-iron - are thought to be relics of forming planets. The Fukang meteorite will go under the hammer at Bonhams on April 30 in New York. __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Don Rawlings You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Update (AD)
The long awaited Adam Hupe surprise ( Lot 8 AH 8) is now up.Stinkin' spectacular! Also, Mike Farmer is placing some exceptional additions which are going up even now - I expect to have them all up by later in the day. In addition, Steve Arnold is submitting what he describes as a spectacular full slice of a choice Brenham he has discovered (uncovered) in his field work and expects To have a photo to me be Sunday evening. I am leaving next week, so, Anyone else interested in absentee bidding should submit their bids By Sunday night - Monday at the very latest. The For Print catalog has been streamlined, but people are encouraged to print Tuesday or, if they leave before that, right before they leave, as I will be putting stuff up through Monday. For a slow start, some spectacular lots are being offered with Price ranges from 2 to 5 digits. Really some spectacular stuff - and The vast majority of it starts with no minimum. Check it out - and later today at: http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/TucsonAuction08.html Best wishes, Michael __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Catalog all up (AD)
OK, I now have 93 items up, with photos and a Print Catalog as Well. Other than Steve's Brenham slice, this looks to be it until I Get to Tucson - and no entries then will make the catalog. Only 6 of the 93 items have ANY minimum. Getting there is easy, just take Speedway and go a couple blocks past Beverly (where the auction was the last 3 years) and Turn Right on Craycroft - then go to 1884 So. Craycroft and park. Only two people have sent in absentee bids, so, if you won't Be there, now is the time to put your bids in. Have a look at the catalog and drool, drool, drool (I am). http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/TucsonAuction08.html Best wishes, Michael __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Update (AD Info)
Hi all List members, If you go to http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/TucsonAuction08.html You will see I now have all the entries up to date. However, That is only 48 lots and the auction will be over quite quickly If no one else enters items soon. To that end - I am offering a 5 day, original 10% commission To any entries of value with no minimum. If you get your goodies Listed and jpgs to me by Sunday, you will get the same 10% rate As those that got in early. After that, the increases stand. I know I can rustle up some entries at the Show that will be quite worth While. Also, Moni Waiblinger had something come up that will prevent Her from attending, but Floyd Griffith has stepped up to do checkout During the auction, so, if anyone wants to bid on a specific item, then Leave, they can do so. Griff will also be helping me check out people After the auction, so that will go twice as fast as in the past. I still need 2 more volunteers to help out to make things go Smoothly. I pay a paltry $100. So, I know it is volunteer work, but at Least you get a little to buy with - and helpers are entirely welcome To bid. All the remaining positions are easy as pie, but I do need people I can count on. Please contact me off list for a position or to enter pieces for the auction. Thanks, Michael __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction program (AD)
Thanks to those of you who Pointed out problems with my initial program post. Auction program is now progressed. I will be adding about 10 other items later tonight, if I have the energy, and will soon make the Print version available(Right now I think it takes you to the 2007 auction). I believe only the correct address is now shown. You can check it out at: http://michaelbloodmeteorites.com/TucsonAuction08.html Thanks, Michael __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction ad
Hi All, Bad new is my Dreamweaver program suddenly went BLANK and I cannot Upload ANYTHING at this time - and who knows when. The good news is the first part of the Auction Catalog is (with much More stuff already in. but not posted) up in a very incomplete way - but At least you can see SOME of the goodies. Go to: http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/TucsonAuction08.html Best wishes, Michael __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction ad
Michael, Nice job on the auction website. That's a bunch of work. Best to you, Griff Parker, Colorado - Original Message - From: Michael L Blood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, January 12, 2008 9:40 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction ad Hi All, Bad new is my Dreamweaver program suddenly went BLANK and I cannot Upload ANYTHING at this time - and who knows when. The good news is the first part of the Auction Catalog is (with much More stuff already in. but not posted) up in a very incomplete way - but At least you can see SOME of the goodies. Go to: http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/TucsonAuction08.html Best wishes, Michael __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction update
1) I am pleased to announce that Moni Waiblinger-Seabridge will be checking people out early at my auction starting 2008. Those of you who are privileged to know Moni know she is a person of high character. She will also assist at the end to make final payments go twice as fast. 2) I have heard from numerous collectors regarding posting auction prices. However, I have never questioned whether collectors were interested in seeing price results. on the other hand, I have heard from only 3 dealers on the matter. If I do not hear from at least 10 dealers one way or the other, my policywill remain unchanged for the following reasons: A) I have, in the past, heard from dealers at the show that they felt the auction prices were being irrationally used by collectors as a reason not to buy from them. B) Most buyers are dealers who wish to resell the items purchased. What they paid is their own business However, Tucson is becoming more of the Wholesale show it used to be, in spite of clearly rising prices for nearly every category of meteorite and my auction has become nearly exclusively a wholesale auction. Therefore, I am open to hearing from dealers their attitude about posted sale prices. So, bring it on, boys. I need input to make a well considered decision. Best wishes to all, and thanks again to Moni (I was only teasing Jim Strope yesterday, for those of you who didn't get it). Michael __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS - Blood and Lang
Hi Jim, list, I disagree. What concerns all important international auction houses the public posting of auction results is a matter of course. Auction prices are of course no indication of true market values: they a r e definitely a certain manifestation of market values themselves. Regards, Matthias Baermann - Original Message - From: Jim Strope [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Central meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 3:57 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS - Blood and Lang I agree with Michael Blood's position that the public posting of final auction prices is a bad idea. Auction prices are NOT an indication of true market values, either high or low. Jim Michael Farmer Wrote: This is simple auction procedure. I will post my list first thing in the morning. I have the hammer prices for every last item. Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS - Blood and Lang
While I agree with you in principle for big professional auction houses, you need to attend an auction in Denver or Tucson before reserving judgement. Some of them are very informal and not like a normal auction situation. In at least one auction that I attended, the procecure is unlike a normal auction in such a way that tends to depresses the prices in my opinion. For example, in a normal auction if I buy item number 10 out of 200 items offered and want to go home, then I just check out, pay and go home. At at least one Tucson auction that I attended, I would have to wait until the end of the auction to pay and then pay in bidder number order. So instead of going home at 8:00 when I am done buying I have to wait until until all bidding on all items is completed before I can go home which could be well after midnight. This makes it so that people don't tend to bid unless they REALLY, REALLY want the item. So prices are certainly not representative to prices much may have been realized in one of the big auction houses. Just my two cents... Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com - Original Message - From: Matthias Bärmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jim Strope [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 10:39 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS - Blood and Lang Hi Jim, list, I disagree. What concerns all important international auction houses the public posting of auction results is a matter of course. Auction prices are of course no indication of true market values: they a r e definitely a certain manifestation of market values themselves. Regards, Matthias Baermann - Original Message - From: Jim Strope [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Central meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 3:57 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS - Blood and Lang I agree with Michael Blood's position that the public posting of final auction prices is a bad idea. Auction prices are NOT an indication of true market values, either high or low. Jim Michael Farmer Wrote: This is simple auction procedure. I will post my list first thing in the morning. I have the hammer prices for every last item. Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS - Blood and Lang
There's no proof of existence of normal and unnormal auctions. The principle of auction is very clear and internationally accepted, any auction is per definitionem a special form of finding out the market values of things. The final publication of auction results as confirmation of this value is a main aspect of this principle. It is transparency which makes the mechanism function. Just my 1 Euro ;-) Matthias Baermann - Original Message - From: Jim Strope [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 4:52 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS - Blood and Lang While I agree with you in principle for big professional auction houses, you need to attend an auction in Denver or Tucson before reserving judgement. Some of them are very informal and not like a normal auction situation. In at least one auction that I attended, the procecure is unlike a normal auction in such a way that tends to depresses the prices in my opinion. For example, in a normal auction if I buy item number 10 out of 200 items offered and want to go home, then I just check out, pay and go home. At at least one Tucson auction that I attended, I would have to wait until the end of the auction to pay and then pay in bidder number order. So instead of going home at 8:00 when I am done buying I have to wait until until all bidding on all items is completed before I can go home which could be well after midnight. This makes it so that people don't tend to bid unless they REALLY, REALLY want the item. So prices are certainly not representative to prices much may have been realized in one of the big auction houses. Just my two cents... Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com - Original Message - From: Matthias Bärmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jim Strope [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 10:39 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS - Blood and Lang Hi Jim, list, I disagree. What concerns all important international auction houses the public posting of auction results is a matter of course. Auction prices are of course no indication of true market values: they a r e definitely a certain manifestation of market values themselves. Regards, Matthias Baermann - Original Message - From: Jim Strope [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Central meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 3:57 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS - Blood and Lang I agree with Michael Blood's position that the public posting of final auction prices is a bad idea. Auction prices are NOT an indication of true market values, either high or low. Jim Michael Farmer Wrote: This is simple auction procedure. I will post my list first thing in the morning. I have the hammer prices for every last item. Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS - Blood and Lang
Hi Jim and All, I also go to an auction and it is the same as you describe. I think if you have to wait until all the auction is done, it is simply because there isn't enough staff. At the auction I attend, there is two auctioneers that take turns and then about three people helping with showing, putting the items on the back table and as you wrote, getting the items and handing them to the winner after his purchase. Also if someone has called in a bid, the auctioneer just starts with that price and if he gets more, then the other bidder who bid higher wins the item. With best regards, Moni From: Jim Strope [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS - Blood and Lang Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 10:52:15 -0500 While I agree with you in principle for big professional auction houses, you need to attend an auction in Denver or Tucson before reserving judgement. Some of them are very informal and not like a normal auction situation. In at least one auction that I attended, the procecure is unlike a normal auction in such a way that tends to depresses the prices in my opinion. For example, in a normal auction if I buy item number 10 out of 200 items offered and want to go home, then I just check out, pay and go home. At at least one Tucson auction that I attended, I would have to wait until the end of the auction to pay and then pay in bidder number order. So instead of going home at 8:00 when I am done buying I have to wait until until all bidding on all items is completed before I can go home which could be well after midnight. This makes it so that people don't tend to bid unless they REALLY, REALLY want the item. So prices are certainly not representative to prices much may have been realized in one of the big auction houses. Just my two cents... Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com _ Valentines Day -- Shop for gifts that spell L-O-V-E at MSN Shopping http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8323,ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24095tcode=wlmtagline __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS - Blood and Lang
Obviously, a lack of staff results in less than optimum customer service. Perhaps spending an extra $100- to hire someone to check out bidders who want to leave would have a positive impact on the auction results as a whole. I personally know of at least two collectors who refused to attend an auction because of lack of customer service. I also personally know of one collector who left without paying because he got tired of waiting. Hopefully, next year will be a more pleasant experience. Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com - Original Message - From: Moni Waiblinger-Seabridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 11:31 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS - Blood and Lang Hi Jim and All, I also go to an auction and it is the same as you describe. I think if you have to wait until all the auction is done, it is simply because there isn't enough staff. At the auction I attend, there is two auctioneers that take turns and then about three people helping with showing, putting the items on the back table and as you wrote, getting the items and handing them to the winner after his purchase. With best regards, Moni From: Jim Strope [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS - Blood and Lang Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 10:52:15 -0500 While I agree with you in principle for big professional auction houses, you need to attend an auction in Denver or Tucson before reserving judgement. Some of them are very informal and not like a normal auction situation. In at least one auction that I attended, the procecure is unlike a normal auction in such a way that tends to depresses the prices in my opinion. For example, in a normal auction if I buy item number 10 out of 200 items offered and want to go home, then I just check out, pay and go home. At at least one Tucson auction that I attended, I would have to wait until the end of the auction to pay and then pay in bidder number order. So instead of going home at 8:00 when I am done buying I have to wait until until all bidding on all items is completed before I can go home which could be well after midnight. This makes it so that people don't tend to bid unless they REALLY, REALLY want the item. So prices are certainly not representative to prices much may have been realized in one of the big auction houses. Just my two cents... Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com _ Valentine's Day -- Shop for gifts that spell L-O-V-E at MSN Shopping http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8323,ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24095tcode=wlmtagline __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS - Blood and Lang
Hi once more, I don't agree with this position simply because isn't that why one goes to an auction? Too deal and get a deal. So if you display the prices it should not matter at all. Actually I would think, what a steal people got purchasing the meteorites for a low price and if I look for a specific one, check the next time there is an auction and if it is offered, see if I couldn't win it at a low price too. Auction prices don't reflect the true market values. I am sure everyone knows that! Regards, Moni From: Jim Strope [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Central meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS - Blood and Lang Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 09:57:49 -0500 I agree with Michael Blood's position that the public posting of final auction prices is a bad idea. Auction prices are NOT an indication of true market values, either high or low. Jim Michael Farmer Wrote: This is simple auction procedure. I will post my list first thing in the morning. I have the hammer prices for every last item. Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ Check out all that glitters with the MSN Entertainment Guide to the Academy Awards® http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?icid=ncoscartagline2 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS - Blood and Lang
Auctions are where you would hope to get bargains, and not pay market value. Isn't Ebay an auction? Cheers, Pete From: Matthias Bärmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jim Strope [EMAIL PROTECTED],meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS - Blood and Lang Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 16:39:25 +0100 Hi Jim, list, I disagree. What concerns all important international auction houses the public posting of auction results is a matter of course. Auction prices are of course no indication of true market values: they a r e definitely a certain manifestation of market values themselves. Regards, Matthias Baermann - Original Message - From: Jim Strope [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Central meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 3:57 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS - Blood and Lang I agree with Michael Blood's position that the public posting of final auction prices is a bad idea. Auction prices are NOT an indication of true market values, either high or low. Jim Michael Farmer Wrote: This is simple auction procedure. I will post my list first thing in the morning. I have the hammer prices for every last item. Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ Your Space. Your Friends. Your Stories. Share your world with Windows Live Spaces. http://discoverspaces.live.com/?loc=en-CA __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS - Blood and Lang
Hi Peter, Yes, eBay is a GREAT place to get awesome bargains for anything from fragments all the way up to large museum quality specimens, from reputable dealers and collectors alike! Like other auctions, eBay does have its share of frauds to look out for! Best regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 - Original Message - From: Pete Pete [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 12:33 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS - Blood and Lang Auctions are where you would hope to get bargains, and not pay market value. Isn't Ebay an auction? Cheers, Pete From: Matthias Bärmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jim Strope [EMAIL PROTECTED],meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS - Blood and Lang Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 16:39:25 +0100 Hi Jim, list, I disagree. What concerns all important international auction houses the public posting of auction results is a matter of course. Auction prices are of course no indication of true market values: they a r e definitely a certain manifestation of market values themselves. Regards, Matthias Baermann - Original Message - From: Jim Strope [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Central meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 3:57 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS - Blood and Lang I agree with Michael Blood's position that the public posting of final auction prices is a bad idea. Auction prices are NOT an indication of true market values, either high or low. Jim Michael Farmer Wrote: This is simple auction procedure. I will post my list first thing in the morning. I have the hammer prices for every last item. Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ Your Space. Your Friends. Your Stories. Share your world with Windows Live Spaces. http://discoverspaces.live.com/?loc=en-CA __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS - Blood and Lang
All this discussion has convinced me that perhaps I have been looking at the posting of auction hammer prices incorrectly. I now SUPPORT the posting of the prices. However, I do feel that they should be posted by the people actually running the auction as an OFFICIAL record of the auction results. This should be done with the specifications of the auction lot as well for claification on the quality of the piece offered. Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com - Original Message - From: Pete Pete [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 12:33 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS - Blood and Lang Auctions are where you would hope to get bargains, and not pay market value. Isn't Ebay an auction? Cheers, Pete From: Matthias Bärmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jim Strope [EMAIL PROTECTED],meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS - Blood and Lang Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 16:39:25 +0100 Hi Jim, list, I disagree. What concerns all important international auction houses the public posting of auction results is a matter of course. Auction prices are of course no indication of true market values: they a r e definitely a certain manifestation of market values themselves. Regards, Matthias Baermann - Original Message - From: Jim Strope [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite Central meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 3:57 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS - Blood and Lang I agree with Michael Blood's position that the public posting of final auction prices is a bad idea. Auction prices are NOT an indication of true market values, either high or low. Jim Michael Farmer Wrote: This is simple auction procedure. I will post my list first thing in the morning. I have the hammer prices for every last item. Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ Your Space. Your Friends. Your Stories. Share your world with Windows Live Spaces. http://discoverspaces.live.com/?loc=en-CA __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS - Blood and Lang
Jim wrote All this discussion has convinced me that perhaps I have been looking at the posting of auction hammer prices incorrectly. I now SUPPORT the posting of the prices. However, I do feel that they should be posted by the people actually running the auction as an OFFICIAL record of the auction results. This should be done with the specifications of the auction lot as well for clarification on the quality of the piece offered. I agree with Jim. I understand the problems with posting prices. People seem to think the lowest price they ever see a meteorite sell is what it is worth, which is strange, as they understand the highest price is a fluke. So while I saw no problems in the past, I now think auction prices should be posted to keep things clear and honest. One can also ask, should my absentee bid be what I pay if I won, or should it be the next increment over the previous highest bid? Clear Skies, Mark __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS - Blood and Lang
Hi All, Just got back from the big one. Haven't come close to reading all my 473 emails, but I am more convinced than ever that the lack of an additional check out person at my auction is, indeed, a situation in need of correcting. My plan for this year fell through at the last minute but I am now more determined than ever to correct this problem once and for all. Imagine my delight in hearing Jim Strope is willing to perform that duty for only $100! Yippie! You're hired, Jim! Please, everyone, let Jim know how grateful you are for being willing to take care of this for us all. It will make the final buy outs go twice as quickly, as well. I also read that people are increasingly wanting auction prices listed and even show dealers are chiming in in favor of this (at least in one instance - haven't been able to read all posts, as mentioned - and I do see that as another appropriate list topic) and I am, therefore, reconsidering this, as my major issue in the past has been regarding the feelings of the show dealers on this issue. I will make a decision in the next day or two and, if in favor of posting prices, will do so via the on-line catalog. I am currently leaning in favor of doing so, but if I do, the list will remain posted for like 30 days, not all year. I would like to hear PRIVATELY from any and all dealers on this issue in the next 24 hrs. Please contact me directly via email with POSTING AUCTION PRICES in the subject box so that I read your opinion immediately. While I am not stating I will automatically go with the majority opinion on this, it will be the major determining factor in making up my mind on this particular issue - and there is no need for this particular topic to be bantered about on the list. As for all other details (timing of sellers being paid, buyers' credit card processing, absentee bidders being notified, etc) will be handled one on one, as per announcements prior to the auction - not via the Meteorite List newsletter where these are not appropriate topics. Best wishes to all, Michael (PS: My name is not Blood, it is Michael Blood. If you do not choose to use my first name it is then appropriate to place Mr. in front of my family name. We are not raw recruits in the military nor High School jerks - though some times I wonder about the latter) on 2/8/07 8:41 AM, Jim Strope at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Obviously, a lack of staff results in less than optimum customer service. Perhaps spending an extra $100- to hire someone to check out bidders who want to leave would have a positive impact on the auction results as a whole. I personally know of at least two collectors who refused to attend an auction because of lack of customer service. I also personally know of one collector who left without paying because he got tired of waiting. Hopefully, next year will be a more pleasant experience. Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com - Original Message - From: Moni Waiblinger-Seabridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 11:31 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS - Blood and Lang Hi Jim and All, I also go to an auction and it is the same as you describe. I think if you have to wait until all the auction is done, it is simply because there isn't enough staff. At the auction I attend, there is two auctioneers that take turns and then about three people helping with showing, putting the items on the back table and as you wrote, getting the items and handing them to the winner after his purchase. With best regards, Moni From: Jim Strope [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS - Blood and Lang Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 10:52:15 -0500 While I agree with you in principle for big professional auction houses, you need to attend an auction in Denver or Tucson before reserving judgement. Some of them are very informal and not like a normal auction situation. In at least one auction that I attended, the procecure is unlike a normal auction in such a way that tends to depresses the prices in my opinion. For example, in a normal auction if I buy item number 10 out of 200 items offered and want to go home, then I just check out, pay and go home. At at least one Tucson auction that I attended, I would have to wait until the end of the auction to pay and then pay in bidder number order. So instead of going home at 8:00 when I am done buying I have to wait until until all bidding on all items is completed before I can go home which could be well after midnight. This makes it so that people don't tend to bid unless they REALLY, REALLY want the item. So prices are certainly not representative
Re: [meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS -MR. Blood and MR Lang
I did NOT volunteer to offer my services for $100- to be your check out person but I am sure you can find some intelligent college student at the U of A that would be happy to do the service for a Hundred Bucks and free beer. (Beer to be consumed after the auction, of course). Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com - Original Message - From: Michael L Blood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Jim Strope [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 3:45 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS - Blood and Lang Hi All, Just got back from the big one. Haven't come close to reading all my 473 emails, but I am more convinced than ever that the lack of an additional check out person at my auction is, indeed, a situation in need of correcting. My plan for this year fell through at the last minute but I am now more determined than ever to correct this problem once and for all. Imagine my delight in hearing Jim Strope is willing to perform that duty for only $100! Yippie! You're hired, Jim! Please, everyone, let Jim know how grateful you are for being willing to take care of this for us all. It will make the final buy outs go twice as quickly, as well. I also read that people are increasingly wanting auction prices listed and even show dealers are chiming in in favor of this (at least in one instance - haven't been able to read all posts, as mentioned - and I do see that as another appropriate list topic) and I am, therefore, reconsidering this, as my major issue in the past has been regarding the feelings of the show dealers on this issue. I will make a decision in the next day or two and, if in favor of posting prices, will do so via the on-line catalog. I am currently leaning in favor of doing so, but if I do, the list will remain posted for like 30 days, not all year. I would like to hear PRIVATELY from any and all dealers on this issue in the next 24 hrs. Please contact me directly via email with POSTING AUCTION PRICES in the subject box so that I read your opinion immediately. While I am not stating I will automatically go with the majority opinion on this, it will be the major determining factor in making up my mind on this particular issue - and there is no need for this particular topic to be bantered about on the list. As for all other details (timing of sellers being paid, buyers' credit card processing, absentee bidders being notified, etc) will be handled one on one, as per announcements prior to the auction - not via the Meteorite List newsletter where these are not appropriate topics. Best wishes to all, Michael (PS: My name is not Blood, it is Michael Blood. If you do not choose to use my first name it is then appropriate to place Mr. in front of my family name. We are not raw recruits in the military nor High School jerks - though some times I wonder about the latter) on 2/8/07 8:41 AM, Jim Strope at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Obviously, a lack of staff results in less than optimum customer service. Perhaps spending an extra $100- to hire someone to check out bidders who want to leave would have a positive impact on the auction results as a whole. I personally know of at least two collectors who refused to attend an auction because of lack of customer service. I also personally know of one collector who left without paying because he got tired of waiting. Hopefully, next year will be a more pleasant experience. Jim Strope 421 Fourth Street Glen Dale, WV 26038 http://www.catchafallingstar.com - Original Message - From: Moni Waiblinger-Seabridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 11:31 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS - Blood and Lang Hi Jim and All, I also go to an auction and it is the same as you describe. I think if you have to wait until all the auction is done, it is simply because there isn't enough staff. At the auction I attend, there is two auctioneers that take turns and then about three people helping with showing, putting the items on the back table and as you wrote, getting the items and handing them to the winner after his purchase. With best regards, Moni From: Jim Strope [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] AUCTION RESULTS - Blood and Lang Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 10:52:15 -0500 While I agree with you in principle for big professional auction houses, you need to attend an auction in Denver or Tucson before reserving judgement. Some of them are very informal and not like a normal auction situation. In at least one auction that I attended, the procecure is unlike a normal auction in such a way that tends
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Catalog Complete
Greetings all, I completed the Tucson Meteorite Auction catalog today, adding the two final items: 109 Book - Meteorites: A Photographic Study of Surface Features:Part One Shapes - Signed by Ninninger No Minimum and: 110 Book - Meteorites: A Photographic Study of Surface Features:Part Two: Orientation by Ninninger No Minimum Both these books are in very good condition, are highly prized, and are full of hundreds of the most spectacular photos of fantastic meteorites ever taken and both books are nearly impossible to get. When I first started collecting, I was lucky enough to get one of them (I cannot remember which one) after about two years - but it took me nearly 8 years to get its companion. Anyway, anyone wanting to add any items will now have to do so at the auction - and I need to get any remaining absentee bids in in the next 24 hrs or so. Looking foreword to seeing you all there! Best wishes, Michael __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Photos up
Hi All, McCartneyTaylor was kind enough to send me a bunch of photos he took at the auction. You can view them at: http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/AuctionOLCat.html Click each to enlarge. Best wishes, Michael -- You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are. -Herb Cohen -- If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Photos up
Hi All, McCartneyTaylor was kind enough to send me a bunch of photos he took at the auction. You can view them at: http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/AuctionOLCat.html Hmm Maybe I'm little nervous, but I will be more happy to know at least if I sell anything on Your auctions or not. Its more than one week and still no info. Impatient person -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- http://www.Meteoryt.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.PolandMET.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM +48(607)535 195 [ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Photos up
Mr. CIMALA, Below is the post I sent you in private, yesterday. - Michael - Here are the results: MC-78 SOLD = $1,000- MC-79 SOLD = 130- MC80 SOLD = 170- MC-81 NO SALE MC-82 NO SALE I will be sending out all payments tomorrow. What is your address? If you want to sell the Zaklodzie Brahin on ebay, it will likely go to someone in the US and I can ship it directly to them and save you some money. RSVP Thanks, Michael on 2/14/05 3:16 PM, Meteoryt.net at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Mr Blood Can u only tell me if You sell on Your auctions my specimen of Zaklodzie E-ungr 53g, Lowicz MES 23g ?? Becouse I want send them to eBay (5cent sale tooday) but if they was sold then I should not do that. -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- http://www.Meteoryt.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.PolandMET.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM +48(607)535 195 [ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ] - Original Message - From: Michael L Blood [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteoryt.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 8:50 AM Subject: RSVP re confimation I have the following pieces (with jpgs) listed (please confirm - RSVP): MC-78 Lowicz (Mesosiderite) Fell March 11, 1935 Lowicz, Poland TKW:+110kg 22.9g endpiece with fresh crust 27x22x16mm reserve 1,000- MC-79 Kilabo (LL6) breccia S3/W0 FDLL: 21 July21, 2002, 19:30 Kilabo, Nigeria 42.8g half specimen with crust 44x31x25 mm reserve 300- MC-80 Bjurböle (L/LL4) S1/W0 FELL March 12, 1899, 22:30 Borga, Nyland, Finland 21.03g 33x24x18 mm reserve 200- MC-81 Zaklodzie (Enstatite) Ungr. Primitive Achondrite S1/W1 1998 Zamosc, Poland TKW:8.68kg 53.5g 50x47x8 mm Reserve: 3,500- -- You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are. -Herb Cohen -- If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. on 2/15/05 2:37 PM, Meteoryt.net at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All, McCartneyTaylor was kind enough to send me a bunch of photos he took at the auction. You can view them at: http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/AuctionOLCat.html Hmm Maybe I'm little nervous, but I will be more happy to know at least if I sell anything on Your auctions or not. Its more than one week and still no info. Impatient person -[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]- http://www.Meteoryt.net [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.PolandMET.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.Gao-Guenie.com GSM +48(607)535 195 [ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- You and I do not see things as they are. We see things as we are. -Herb Cohen -- If a million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Update
Howdy Folks, DNA Dave brings up an interesting point in his request for a large stone in Michael Bloods Tucson Auction. As the largest single contributor of non-NWA pieces in Michaels auction, I put considerable thought and effort into both what I would offer and the reserve price if any placed on the piece. My choices were based upon the belief that the auction format works best when material is offered that cannot be readily acquired from other sources. Large unclassified stones are, for meteorites anyway, somewhat common with one Canadian dealer recently offering Humongous pieces at rather low prices. While the largest piece I have in Michaels auction is only 272g, I did try to include a variety of pieces covering many of the collecting threads pursued by those who fancy meteorites. Here are some statistics for the 38 pieces I have in Michaels auction: 10 Witnessed falls 11 Specimens with notable collection numbers and/or labels 6 pieces with Nininger numbers 2 E ucrites 2 Howardites 1 Diogenite 1 Ureilite 2 Mesosiderites 4 irons 1 Silicated anomalous iron 1 Enstatite chondrite 3 Carbonaceous chondrites including two type 3.0 specimens! 21 Ordinary chondrites including an LL4 fall 2 stones with a total known weight of ~200g or less 5 Other stones with at TKW of 5kg or less 1 Historic Nininger Star 7 Pieces that fell or were found in the 1800s 2 Pieces that fell or were found in the 1700s 14 Pieces with no reserve $50 is the lowest reserve $7000 the highest reserve 6 Specimens are half or complete individuals 4 Specimens are end sections 4 Specimens are fragments 22 Specimens are complete or partial slices So in a nutshell, while I cannot please everyone, I did make a conscious effort to please as many people as I possible. It is my hope that the rarity of most of these pieces will be recognized before or during the auction instead of after. Often when I review old auction outcomes whether the King Auction or Darryls auctions, I kic k myself saying, What was I thinking? I cannot believe I let that piece go! Cheers, Martin - Original Message - From: DNAndrews [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Friday, January 28, 2005 1:11 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auction Update (AD) ) I am surprised I don't have a good many more. I will be leaving Monday, so, absentee bids will be accepted up to midnight Sunday, Jan. 30th. Michael, I'll be there and will have more money than I usually have to indulge in. What I notice this year, is there is nothing BIG. No big stones, no big irons, just little piddly rare stuff...eucrites, howardites, achondrites, luanites,etc. I am looking for a BIG meteoriteunclassifiedclassifiedI don't care. Like the one I scarfed last year...very nice. I want something I can display to non-meteorite folk and have them go WOW! So, if there are some late seller with some decent sized stones or iro ns...let them in please! Maybe that HB oriented piece looks good to me, but I'm sure I'll get outbid on that one. Sorry to bitch, Dave __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction list for tonight. Many large items over $1000 up for one cent.
Hi Mike, A question related to your E-bay offer just received (though I am not an E-bay buyer). You are listing Oum Rokba. I purchased that one sometimes in the past, from Blaine Reed (incidently with an accurate descriptive label). I thought the name was officially recognized and the meteorite well documented but never found any official description in the Met. Bulls. later on. Blaine's label gives about about the same description as yours on E-Bay. I contacted Bleine recently for more info but he was not able to tell more. Could you (or anyone) tell me whether Oum Rokba is an official name and where is it described ? Or should that one rather belong to the vast NWA group (if so, which N° ?) Many thanks and best wishes, Zelimir A 08:31 14/09/04 -0700, vous avez écrit : Subject: Auction list for tonight. Many large items over $1000 up for one cent. Hi everyone, I have loaded alot of meteorites on eBay one cent auctions. They all end tonight. Take a look, grab some end of summer deals for a real bargain. http://members.ebay.com/ws2/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPageuserid=meteoritehunters http://members.ebay.com/ws2/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPageuserid=meteorite-hunter thanks Mike Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Auction list for tonight. Many large items over $1000 up for one cent.
Hi everyone, I have loaded alot of meteorites on eBay one cent auctions. They all end tonight. Take a look, grab some end of summer deals for a real bargain. for example, here is a small piece of Bilanga Diogenite, right now less than $3.00 per gram! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemrd=1item=2268593733 http://members.ebay.com/ws2/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPageuserid=meteoritehunters http://members.ebay.com/ws2/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPageuserid=meteorite-hunter thanks Mike Farmer __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] AUCTION ALERT: cat mountain on eBay for $.99 !!
Well, that lasted a long time...:-P Oh, well. Tracy Latimer From: Robert Verish [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list Meteoritecentral [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [meteorite-list] AUCTION ALERT: cat mountain on eBay for $.99 !! Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 18:06:50 -0700 (PDT) Auction Alert: Cat Mountain on eBay for $.99!! http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/bolide*chaser/ __ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] * AUCTION * Rocks from Space * AUCTION *
Michael Casper is anything but Normal . - Original Message - From: Matteo Chinellato [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Michael Casper [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 02, 2002 10:47 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] * AUCTION * Rocks from Space * AUCTION * 4 TIMES Normaly is only 1 Matteo --- Michael Casper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is it! My last 8 copies of Rocks from Space Signed by Richard and Dorothy!! Hurry and do it!! xoxox, MC http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItemitem=1090001476 Click the above linkand DO IT! = M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina 126/A - 30030 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.com Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info International Meteorite Collectors Association #2140 MSN Messanger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EBAY.COM:http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
