subject:"\[meteorite\-list\] 2\?"

List,

I haven't talked with either Sonny or Mike yet, but some of this story
smells a little fishy.

Not that you can believe anything you see or read in the media, as stories
seldom get confirmation before deadlines have to be reached, and stories tend
to get sensationalized for sales and ratings purposes. After all, the first
story just gave the teaser info and for only $28 more you can read the rest
of the story on the paper's website.

One thing that sticks out in the second story, was that it was reported that
Honorable Judge Jerry M. Daniel told the guys to each pay their $2,000 fine
then told them to get out of dodge.“ Now, if he actually said that, isn't
that a bit strange? I mean, after child molesters pay their debt to society,
even they still get to move back into their old communities. Does a judge
actually have authority to ban people from an entire county from the bench?

Does this imply that meteorite hunters are worse than child molesters?

It was mentioned that there often is a good ole boys network that
supercedes the rule of law in many places. I would never imply that this
might be
the case here, but it makes one wonder.

Of course, I can understand someone not wanting people on their property.
And that is why it is always good to get permission to hunt, and if that
permission is in writing, all the better.

I had an Aha experience when I was driving with a fellow meteorite hunter
at West a couple of weeks ago as we drove up on a land owner and I stopped,
got out and introduced myself, and asked for permission to hunt on his ground.
The man said quite plainly No. So I asked him Why not? And he could
not (or would not) give me a reason. We talked a little more, when I asked
him if he was planning to look himself, and he said he was too busy to do it
himself. Again, I asked him why I couldn't look.

He did not say I don't want you spooking my cattle. Or I don't want the
liability if you get hurt. Or I don't want you making money off of
something that I would just as soon let rust away.

He didn't offer a good reason or even a bad reason for that matter.

When it was obvious I wasn't going to get permission, I excused myself and
went back to the car to go find another land owner down the road to ask. When
I got in the car, my friend asked me: You know why he doesn't want to let
you hunt don't you? I said No, why? He stated matter of factly: He
didn't want you to find his Marijuana Patch.

Aha!!!

Of course I don't know if that was the real case, but if it was, it made a
lot of sense, and it would explain why he couldn't give me a logical reason on
why he didn't want me on his ground. If he had a $500,000 cash crop growing
out there, only bad could come out of someone wondering around his land.

I am not saying that Sonny and Mike almost stumbled onto a secret garden in
Georgia, or that the judge and other law enforcement personnel might have
been partners in some Southern Mafia where they would want ALL meteorite
hunters to stay out of the ENTIRE county and away from their retirement fund.

I am just saying something seems a little fishy with this story. I am sure
we will never know the full story.

Steve Arnold
Arkansas (some day soon I hope I can drop the Arkansas tag for good)

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Re: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My Car edition)

On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 17:20:46 EDT, you wrote:

I am not saying that Sonny and Mike  almost stumbled onto a secret garden in 
Georgia, or that the judge and other law  enforcement personnel might have 
been partners in some Southern Mafia where  they would want ALL meteorite 
hunters to stay out of the ENTIRE county and away  from their retirement fund.

Good thing you aren't saying that, because that's just silly.  They had wandered
onto private property, not on to the set of The Dukes of Hazzard.
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Re: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My Caredition)


Steve,

Read the article again.  A 66 year old lady confronted two burglers on her 
property last October. Given that, Sonny and Mike are lucky they only had to 
pay a $2K fine.  They might have been  shot.  I like and respect Sonny and 
Mike, but if they didn't ask permission in the first place, they had no 
business on the pproperty and they only have themselves to blame for the 
outcome.


Regarding the Judge and his Get out of Dodge statement.  That's not 
uncommon.  If you've ever seen some of the videos of cops in action, you'll 
see that they tell suspicious people to get out of neighborhoods all the 
time.


With regards to a land owner failing to give you a reason why you couldn't 
search his property... what makes you think he has an obligation to do so? 
It is enough that he owns the land and has said No.  With all due respect 
to you, persuing it further with the man is pretty arrogant.


Regards,

Dave

- Original Message - 
From: meteorh...@aol.com

To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My 
Caredition)




List,

I haven't talked with either Sonny  or Mike yet, but some of this story
smells a little fishy.

Not  that you can believe anything you see or read in the media, as 
stories
seldom  get confirmation before deadlines have to be reached, and stories 
tend
to get  sensationalized for sales and ratings purposes.  After all, the 
first
story  just gave the teaser info and for only $28 more you can read the 
rest

of the  story on the paper's website.

One thing that sticks out in the second  story, was that it was reported 
that
Honorable Judge Jerry M. Daniel told the  guys to each pay their $2,000 
fine
then told them to get out of dodge.“   Now, if he actually said that, 
isn't
that a bit strange?  I mean, after  child molesters pay their debt to 
society,
even they still get to move back into  their old communities.  Does a 
judge
actually have authority to ban people  from an entire county from the 
bench?


Does this imply that  meteorite hunters are worse than child molesters?

It was mentioned that  there often is a good ole boys network that
supercedes the rule of law in many  places.  I would never imply that this 
might be

the case here, but it makes  one wonder.

Of course, I can understand someone not wanting people on  their property.
And that is why it is always good to get permission to  hunt, and if that
permission is in writing, all the better.

I  had an Aha experience when I was driving with a fellow meteorite 
hunter
at  West a couple of weeks ago as we drove up on a land owner and I 
stopped,
got out  and introduced myself, and asked for permission to hunt on his 
ground.

The  man said quite plainly No.  So I asked him Why not?  And he could
not (or would not) give me a reason.  We talked a little more, when I 
asked
him if he was planning to look himself, and he said he was too busy to do 
it

himself.  Again, I asked him why I couldn't look.

He did not say I  don't want you spooking my cattle.  Or I don't want 
the

liability if you  get hurt.  Or I don't want you making money off of
something that I would  just as soon let rust away.

He didn't offer a good reason or even  a bad reason for that matter.

When it was obvious I wasn't going to get  permission, I excused myself 
and
went back to the car to go find another land  owner down the road to ask. 
When
I got in the car, my friend asked me:  You know why he doesn't want to 
let

you hunt don't you?  I said No,  why?  He stated matter of factly: He
didn't want you to find his  Marijuana Patch.

Aha!!!

Of course I don't know if that was the  real case, but if it was, it made 
a
lot of sense, and it would explain why he  couldn't give me a logical 
reason on
why he didn't want me on his ground.   If he had a $500,000 cash crop 
growing

out there, only bad could come out of  someone wondering around his land.

I am not saying that Sonny and Mike  almost stumbled onto a secret garden 
in

Georgia, or that the judge and other law  enforcement personnel might have
been partners in some Southern Mafia where  they would want ALL 
meteorite
hunters to stay out of the ENTIRE county and away  from their retirement 
fund.


I am just saying something seems a little  fishy with this story.  I am 
sure

we will never know the full  story.

Steve Arnold
Arkansas (some day soon I hope I can drop the  Arkansas tag for good)


**New Low Prices on Dell Laptops – Starting at $399
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220433304x1201394525/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubl
eclick.net%2Fclk%3B213540718%3B35046385%3Be)
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Re: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My Caredition)

On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 17:47:34 -0400, you wrote:

Read the article again.  A 66 year old lady confronted two burglers on her 
property last October. Given that, Sonny and Mike are lucky they only had to 
pay a $2K fine.  They might have been  shot.  I like and respect Sonny and 
Mike, but if they didn't ask permission in the first place, they had no 
business on the pproperty and they only have themselves to blame for the 
outcome.

As I just said to someone off-list:

I live in Anderson County, South Carolina (a few counties away from Burke,
Georgia, as you can see on a map.)  I also live down a private, unmarked,
ungated dirt road.  And in my experience, strangers coming on to your property
almost always are trying to sell you something that you don't want, or take away
something that you do.
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Re: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's MyCaredition)

2009-04-02 Thread Michael Bross

why don't you put a sign private road, trespassers will be 
fined/prosecuted

like in NY and many other states ?
I go often off road all around the world, I would have never imagined
that a private road wouldn't be marked... and have quite some experience
going off roads, or off the beaten paths.

I guess some parts in Southern USA are a real other world...
Glad I joined the Met-List... I know now ! and will avoid troubles out of 
common sense !


Michael B, France



- Original Message - 
From: Darren Garrison cyna...@charter.net

To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 1:12 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's 
MyCaredition)




On Thu, 2 Apr 2009 17:47:34 -0400, you wrote:


Read the article again.  A 66 year old lady confronted two burglers on her
property last October. Given that, Sonny and Mike are lucky they only had 
to

pay a $2K fine.  They might have been  shot.  I like and respect Sonny and
Mike, but if they didn't ask permission in the first place, they had no
business on the pproperty and they only have themselves to blame for the
outcome.


As I just said to someone off-list:

I live in Anderson County, South Carolina (a few counties away from Burke,
Georgia, as you can see on a map.)  I also live down a private, unmarked,
ungated dirt road.  And in my experience, strangers coming on to your 
property
almost always are trying to sell you something that you don't want, or 
take away

something that you do.
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Re: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's MyCaredition)

On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 00:24:29 +0200, you wrote:

why don't you put a sign private road, trespassers will be 
fined/prosecuted

I would guess because it is pretty much taken for granted (here, at least) that
a road that isn't paved and doesn't have signs is a private driveway leading to
a home or a business.
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Re: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My Caredition)

Dave (and list),
 
I will address the things point by point:
 
In a message dated 4/2/2009 4:47:22 P.M. Central Daylight Time,  
carother...@gmail.com writes:

Read the article again.  A 66 year old lady confronted two  burglers on her 
property last October. Given that, Sonny and Mike are lucky  they only had to 
pay a $2K fine.  They might have been   shot.  I like and respect Sonny and 
Mike, but if they didn't ask  permission in the first place, they had no 
business on the pproperty and  they only have themselves to blame for the 
outcome.

**
Dave,

Were they actually burglars, or were they just  knocking on her door asking 
to use the phone for their broken down car?  

I am sure they were probably burglars.  But my point is, just  because a 
newspaper says something, doesn't make it so.   Almost EVERY  meteorite story 
ever 
published has minor if not major flaws in them.  And  these are not typically 
stories where a reporter's bias could be blamed for the  bad journalism.  
Almost ALL journalism is shotty today.  I just don't  believe anything in 
print, 
just because it is in print.  

Maybe  Sonny and Mike are lucky to only have to pay $2,000.  Maybe they were  
unlucky to have to pay $2,000.  Yes, they might have been shot.  I  like and 
respect Sonny and Mike too.  I agree, without asking permission,  they did not 
belong there.  

***
Dave, you said:

Regarding the Judge and his Get out of Dodge statement.  That's  not 
uncommon.  If you've ever seen some of the videos of cops in  action, you'll 
see that they tell suspicious people to get out of  neighborhoods all the 
time.
 

Thanks for the correction Dave.  I think I have only seen  the phrase Get 
the hell out of Dodge in old western movies, usually relating  to Dodge City, 
Kansas.  But arrogant law men are slightly different than  judges sitting on a 
bench with a stenographer recording every statement.   Besides, is Hollywood's 
perspective always the way it really happens in  life?

Of course, IF Mike and Sonny had already made a plea agreement, or  simply 
plead guilty (whether they really were guilty or not) throwing themselves  at 
the mercy of the court, the judge I presume could puff up his chest and say  
about anything he wanted.  
 
And, I don't mean to imply that if either of them were arrested again, and  
brought before the same judge, that he would not be more strict the second time 
 around.  I don't doubt he would throw the book at them.

My preface  was that this story seemed a bit fishy to me, that is all.   

Do judges in Georgia run for public election?  Re-elect Judge  Daniel, he's 
tough on space crime! might be a good campaign  slogan.

***

With regards to a land owner failing to  give you a reason why you couldn't 
search his property... what makes you  think he has an obligation to do so? 
It is enough that he owns the land and  has said No.  With all due respect 
to you, persuing it further with  the man is pretty arrogant

Regards,

Dave

*
Dave, with all due respect to you, I like to  engage people in conversations. 
 Me doing so with that man had nothing to  do with me being arrogant.  If 
someone has an objection, in sales one  learns to flush out those objections.  
If 
you don't know  the objections, then how do you overcome them?  Often  times, 
people have very valid objections.  Other times, they  don't.

Unless a person comes out with their excuse, or if one asks, it is  hard to 
find out why they object.  Granted, people lie.  Sometimes  they will say they 
don't want you to hunt because 23 years ago, a fisherman left  a gate open and 
some cows got out.  But usually that isn't a valid reason  for never letting 
anyone ever come on their land again.

Yes, of  course, with private property, people don't have to have a reason.  
But  usually they do have a reason.  Unless it is brought out, it is often 
hard  to rationally talk with someone about a solution.  

In West, I was  hunting with a group when we got permission to hunt on a guys 
land for a couple  of days.  At the end of the couple of days I asked if we 
could keep  hunting.  The man said No, I told you that you could hunt for 2 
days, and  it has been two days.  His response seemed strange, so I engaged 
him 
as to  why?  A little later he expressed that his wife was nervous with 
strangers  on the property, and that she had gotten their pistol out and was 
keeping it on  the table to help with her nerves. 

Bingo.  The real reason.   Not that he wanted to be a jerk and kick us off 
after only 2 days, but he had a  real reason.  And a valid one I might point 
out.  I understood his  situation.  I told him that I wish we could hunt more, 
but that I  appreciated what time he gave us.   And I left.  No arrogance on  
my 
part at all.  Maybe I could have tried to find a way to reassure him and  his 
wife, but I didn't feel like it was probably going to be productive.   Maybe

Re: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My Car edition)

2009-04-02 Thread Michael Murray

Not saying anything against this farmer in particular but that's a
real possibility anywhere... to run onto a clandestine lab or weed
patch. Or, even a shroom growing operation. Not entirely impossible,
especially here in Colorado. The people involved in these types of
activities might react to your presence in any number of goofy ways.
I'd rather take my chances with a rattlesnake.

Mike in CO

On Apr 2, 2009, at 3:20 PM, meteorh...@aol.com wrote:

List,

I haven't talked with either Sonny or Mike yet, but some of this
story

smells a little fishy.

Not that you can believe anything you see or read in the media, as
stories
seldom get confirmation before deadlines have to be reached, and
stories tend
to get sensationalized for sales and ratings purposes. After all,
the first
story just gave the teaser info and for only $28 more you can read
the rest

of the story on the paper's website.

One thing that sticks out in the second story, was that it was
reported that
Honorable Judge Jerry M. Daniel told the guys to each pay their
$2,000 fine
then told them to get out of dodge.“ Now, if he actually said
that, isn't
that a bit strange? I mean, after child molesters pay their debt
to society,
even they still get to move back into their old communities. Does
a judge
actually have authority to ban people from an entire county from
the bench?

Does this imply that meteorite hunters are worse than child
molesters?

It was mentioned that there often is a good ole boys network that
supercedes the rule of law in many places. I would never imply
that this might be

the case here, but it makes one wonder.

Of course, I can understand someone not wanting people on their
property.
And that is why it is always good to get permission to hunt, and if
that

permission is in writing, all the better.

I had an Aha experience when I was driving with a fellow
meteorite hunter
at West a couple of weeks ago as we drove up on a land owner and I
stopped,
got out and introduced myself, and asked for permission to hunt on
his ground.
The man said quite plainly No. So I asked him Why not? And he
could
not (or would not) give me a reason. We talked a little more, when
I asked
him if he was planning to look himself, and he said he was too busy
to do it

himself. Again, I asked him why I couldn't look.

He did not say I don't want you spooking my cattle. Or I don't
want the

liability if you get hurt. Or I don't want you making money off of
something that I would just as soon let rust away.

He didn't offer a good reason or even a bad reason for that matter.

When it was obvious I wasn't going to get permission, I excused
myself and
went back to the car to go find another land owner down the road to
ask. When
I got in the car, my friend asked me: You know why he doesn't want
to let
you hunt don't you? I said No, why? He stated matter of
factly: He

didn't want you to find his Marijuana Patch.

Aha!!!

Of course I don't know if that was the real case, but if it was, it
made a
lot of sense, and it would explain why he couldn't give me a
logical reason on
why he didn't want me on his ground. If he had a $500,000 cash
crop growing
out there, only bad could come out of someone wondering around his
land.

I am not saying that Sonny and Mike almost stumbled onto a secret
garden in
Georgia, or that the judge and other law enforcement personnel
might have
been partners in some Southern Mafia where they would want ALL
meteorite
hunters to stay out of the ENTIRE county and away from their
retirement fund.

I am just saying something seems a little fishy with this story. I
am sure

we will never know the full story.

Steve Arnold
Arkansas (some day soon I hope I can drop the Arkansas tag for
good)

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Re: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My Caredition)

Okay, maybe they DID walk onto the set of Dukes of Hazzard:

http://webpages.charter.net/garrison6328/tmp/burke.jpg
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Re: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's MyCaredition)

2009-04-02 Thread Michael Bross


ok Darren, I have to minor my previous post

In NY state, when I see a mailbox in front of an unpaved road
I know that it is (at least partially) private and won't go, even if no 
sign.


USA being a rather new country, most of the roads go to a private 
property, I have to admit,
not like in France, and many other countries, where unpaved roads are common 
and rarely

private, unless advertised otherwise.
They are very ancient paths going thru fields, landscape, from one village 
to the other,

reminiscent of old middle age roads, and most of the time unpaved.

I feel that Mike Miller and Sonny never seriously thought they were on 
private property


Good evening everyone
Michael B, France


- Original Message - 
From: Darren Garrison cyna...@charter.net

To: elemen...@peconic.net
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 1:28 AM
Subject: Re: Re: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's 
MyCaredition)



On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 00:24:29 +0200, you wrote:


why don't you put a sign private road, trespassers will be
fined/prosecuted


I would guess because it is pretty much taken for granted (here, at least) 
that
a road that isn't paved and doesn't have signs is a private driveway leading 
to

a home or a business.



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Re: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's MyCaredition)

On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 01:57:17 +0200, you wrote:

I feel that Mike Miller and Sonny never seriously thought they were on 
private property

No, I make no claim at all that they had any intention of doing anything
wrong-- just that I can see the land owner's point of view.  (And I'm more
likely to trust the judgement of objective third parties like the police and
court system than those of the two sides of the case).
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Re: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's MyCaredition)

2009-04-02 Thread GeoZay


No, I make no claim at all that they  had any intention of doing anything
wrong-- just that I can see the land  owner's point of view.  (And I'm more
likely to trust the judgement of  objective third parties like the police and
court system than those of the  two sides of the case).

This all kinda reminds me of the movie,  My Cousin Vinny. :O)
GeoZay  

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less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood0001)
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Re: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where'sMyCaredition)

2009-04-02 Thread Michael Bross


I didn't say so Darren
+ the quote you answer to wasn't intended to you.

Michael, France

PS: although... be cautious with the objectivity of 3rd parties :)



- Original Message - 
From: Darren Garrison cyna...@charter.net

To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 3:40 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude--  
Where'sMyCaredition)




On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 01:57:17 +0200, you wrote:


I feel that Mike Miller and Sonny never seriously thought they were on
private property


No, I make no claim at all that they had any intention of doing anything
wrong-- just that I can see the land owner's point of view.  (And I'm 
more
likely to trust the judgement of objective third parties like the police 
and

court system than those of the two sides of the case).
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Re: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's MyCaredition)

I don't doubt that Mike and Sonny were on private land without permission,
they have admitted so.

Was there was grounds for an arrest buy an unbiased police men?

Sure.

It was for a court case to decide their guilt, had they wanted to plead Not
Guilty. As I understand, they decided to plead Guilty.

I assume they did this either because they were technically guilty as
charged, or because it was better for them to make such a plea than to take
their
chances and money to try to fight the charges. With the attitude of the judge
to go over the law and to order people out of his county, I think taking the
path of least resistance would have been very attractive to most anyone
found in the same situation.

To claim that such a judge was an objective third party in this case seems
to be a bit of a stretch.

And, not that we can believe the newspaper 100%, but it seemed that part of
the reason the judge was being so easy on them was because the land owner
wasn't wanting to push the issue. Which, coming from a gun toting, burglar
apprehending victim, that shows that maybe even she thought sending them to
jail was too extreme, even if such a jail sentence could have been within the
limits of the fullest extent of the law.

That is just my take.

Steve Arnold
Arkansas

In a message dated 4/2/2009 7:43:18 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
cyna...@charter.net writes:
On Fri, 3 Apr 2009 01:57:17 +0200, you wrote:

I feel that Mike Miller and Sonny never seriously thought they were on
private property

No, I make no claim at all that they had any intention of doing anything
wrong-- just that I can see the land owner's point of view. (And I'm more
likely to trust the judgement of objective third parties like the police and
court system than those of the two sides of the case).

Re: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My Caredition)

2009-04-02 Thread GeoZay


Regarding the Judge and his Get out  of Dodge statement.  That's not 
uncommon.  If you've ever seen  some of the videos of cops in action, you'll 
see that they tell suspicious  people to get out of neighborhoods all the 
time.

I was once a  fireman and many years ago, I recall being on a call for an 
unconscious  person. Well...the guy was faking it. Eventually he realized the 
jig was up and  came clean. He was trying to get arrested so he can spend a 
week or so in jail  to rest up. The story came out that the police dept in 
Dallas, Texas bought him  a bus ticket for southern california. So the 
California 
police department bought  him another bus ticket for Dallas. :O)
GeoZay  

**Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner for $10 or 
less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood0001)
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Re: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My Caredition)


Hi Steve,

I'll briefly reply in the same manner...

In a message dated 4/2/2009 7:05 PM
meteorh...@aol.com writes:

Steve said:

Were they actually burglars, or were they just  knocking on her door asking
to use the phone for their broken down car?

I am sure they were probably burglars.  But my point is, just  because a
newspaper says something, doesn't make it so.   Almost EVERY  meteorite 
story ever
published has minor if not major flaws in them.  And  these are not 
typically

stories where a reporter's bias could be blamed for the  bad journalism.
Almost ALL journalism is shotty today.  I just don't  believe anything in 
print,

just because it is in print.

Maybe  Sonny and Mike are lucky to only have to pay $2,000.  Maybe they 
were

unlucky to have to pay $2,000.  Yes, they might have been shot.  I  like and
respect Sonny and Mike too.  I agree, without asking permission,  they did 
not

belong there.


***
The point I was making about the landowner and the burglers was to 
illustrate that Sonny and Mike (or anyone in a similar position) doesn't 
necessarily know the background or local history of the area and what 
suspicions and fears may be present, hence, my follow-on about the 
possibility of their getting shot.  The bottom line is I think we all agree 
that getting permission first in the only way to go.


***

Steve said:

Thanks for the correction Dave.  I think I have only seen  the phrase Get
the hell out of Dodge in old western movies, usually relating  to Dodge 
City,
Kansas.  But arrogant law men are slightly different than  judges sitting on 
a
bench with a stenographer recording every statement.   Besides, is 
Hollywood's

perspective always the way it really happens in  life?

Of course, IF Mike and Sonny had already made a plea agreement, or  simply
plead guilty (whether they really were guilty or not) throwing themselves 
at

the mercy of the court, the judge I presume could puff up his chest and say
about anything he wanted.

And, I don't mean to imply that if either of them were arrested again, and
brought before the same judge, that he would not be more strict the second 
time

around.  I don't doubt he would throw the book at them.

My preface  was that this story seemed a bit fishy to me, that is all.

Do judges in Georgia run for public election?  Re-elect Judge  Daniel, he's
tough on space crime! might be a good campaign  slogan.

***

I've worked with the law enforcement community for 12 years and while the 
vast majority are there to serve the public interest, there are those 
(police, attorneys, and judges) who abuse their positions to the detriment 
of the public. In my previous post, I guess I was surprised by the fact that 
you appeard to find it unusual for such a comment to be made by a judge.


***

Steve said:

Dave, with all due respect to you, I like to  engage people in 
conversations.

Me doing so with that man had nothing to  do with me being arrogant.  If
someone has an objection, in sales one  learns to flush out those 
objections.  If
you don't know  the objections, then how do you overcome them?  Often 
times,

people have very valid objections.  Other times, they  don't.

Unless a person comes out with their excuse, or if one asks, it is  hard to
find out why they object.  Granted, people lie.  Sometimes  they will say 
they
don't want you to hunt because 23 years ago, a fisherman left  a gate open 
and

some cows got out.  But usually that isn't a valid reason  for never letting
anyone ever come on their land again.

Yes, of  course, with private property, people don't have to have a reason.
But  usually they do have a reason.  Unless it is brought out, it is often
hard  to rationally talk with someone about a solution.

[snip]

***

I thank you for the detailed explanation, but I still have issue with your 
idea that a land owner would owe you an explanation other than No when 
asked to search their property.  You state above that  Sometimes they will 
say they don't want you to hunt because 23 years ago, a fisherman left a 
gate open and some cows got out.  But usually that isn't a valid reason for 
never letting anyone ever come on their land again.  That is where the 
arrogance appears. If someone left a gate open 23 or 50 years ago and the 
property owner doesn't want anyone else to EVER come on the property again. 
So be it.  You may not like the reason, but who are you to judge the 
validity of the decision?  You also state Often  times, people have very 
valid objections.  Other times, they don't.  I'll say it again... If you 
own the property, you have no obligation to explain why you don't want 
someone on your property and you sure don't have to justify or validate any 
reason if you decide to provide more than a NO! answer.


I agree that conversation is useful, but can you also see that pushing the 
envelope and pressing soneone for a reason and not to say that you would 
actually do this, but potentially argue the

Re: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's MyCaredition)

That's a sorry state of affairs, but unfortunately, there are many such 
stories like this across the US every day.

Dave
- Original Message - 
From: geo...@aol.com

To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's 
MyCaredition)

Regarding the Judge and his Get out  of Dodge statement.  That's not
uncommon.  If you've ever seen  some of the videos of cops in action, 
you'll

see that they tell suspicious  people to get out of neighborhoods all the
time.

I was once a  fireman and many years ago, I recall being on a call for an
unconscious  person. Well...the guy was faking it. Eventually he 
realized the
jig was up and  came clean. He was trying to get arrested so he can spend 
a

week or so in jail  to rest up. The story came out that the police dept in
Dallas, Texas bought him  a bus ticket for southern california. So the 
California

police department bought  him another bus ticket for Dallas. :O)
GeoZay

**Feeling the pinch at the grocery store?  Make dinner for $10 
or

less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood0001)
__
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list 

__
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Re: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My Caredition)

Dave,

You said:

I thank you for the detailed explanation, but I still have issue with your
idea that a land owner would owe you an explanation other than No when
asked to search their property.

When I clearly stated in my last post:

Does he have an obligation to tell me why he said no? Of course not. And
did I even imply that he was obligated to? But if you don't ask, often you
don't get an answer.

So why do you still think that I think he OWES me an explanation?

I don't think he owes me to let me hunt on his land, but I still ask.

He didn't owe me an explanation, but I still asked for one.

Besides, if someone owes you something, you demand, you don't ask.

I didn't demand anything, I just asked. I wasn't rude. He wasn't rude. He
didn't kick me off his driveway. He didn't even ask me to leave nor did he
end the conversation. We had a short, 3 minute talk, then I left when it was
evident he didn't care if meteorites would be lost. Maybe if I offered him
$10,000 in exchange for hunting, he might have become interested. Then again,
if he had a $500,000 crop out in the trees growing, $10,000 for hunting
privileges wouldn't have probably interested him either.

I didn't waste his whole day, he was doing some work, and he kept working
while I was talking.

Now, maybe someone talked with him before I did and offended him in such a
way that he was sour to not me personally, but to meteorite hunters in
general. That could have been the case. And it was, I would have loved to
have
found that out.

But since he didn't say that, or give any reason, I just don't know.

Besides, I ended up hunting on one of his neighbors ground the next day
where we found the 1,673g specimen the day before the rains, so maybe it was a
blessing that he said No, and that he didn't tell me why, and that I didn't
overcome his objections?

Then again, I might have changed his mind and I might have found 5 kilo rock
on his ground instead.

Who knows? It is all water under the bridge, or should I say rocks under
the mud now.

Steve

Re: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My Caredition)