Re: [meteorite-list] ANSWER - whole stone concerns
What a mess. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ANSWER - whole stone concerns
Hi Listers: Recently we had an article in The New York Times about our hobby. Now we have this. Better smarten up folks or our little hobby will fall into a very nasty pit full of other kind of fraudsters. Chris. Spratt Victoria, BC __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ANSWER - whole stone concerns
How can I be sure that any whole stone be properly labeled as classified? -- Easy, We have only been saying this on the list since The list began: Buy from a dealer known for honesty And integrity. God bless the IMCA and the hard workers of the Board BUT I do not consider an IMCA number to be The equivalent of honesty and integrity. I know an example where two new dealers applied. One was accepted The other was told to, essentially, get some more experience Under his belt. Well, I knew him personally as a person Of honor. The irony was I also knew the other dealer and That individual had attempted to increase price on me AFTER I had sent money for a new fall. Between the Two, there was no question in my mind in whom I would Have confidence. So, no, I do not consider an IMCA logo Sufficient in and of itself to guarantee authenticity. (I DO consider it sufficient to pursue action if I am defrauded, However) Additionally, failing to KNOW people who have long Standing honorable dealings - such as ET, Mike Farmer, Anne Black, Geoff Notkin, etc, etc, etc, then I would take An unknown IMCA member over an entirely unknown entity. In fact, I would not deal with an entirely unknown Entity again - unless I KNEW what I was getting was What I was paying for through other sources than the Seller. (IE I could see by looking at it, it has distinctive Features unique to that fall, the seller bought his stash From someone I know, etc). So, the answer to your question is simple: Buy only From dealers you know AND TRUST or, at the very least from IMCA members. Warm regards, Michael On 5/8/11 8:54 AM, Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net wrote: Hello List. This latest Mifflin business has me very disturbed, and brings up a question I've been meaning to ask you all for a while now: How can I be sure that any whole stone be properly labeled as classified? Of course there are obvious stones like Camel Donga, (all those that stand alone with external character)...but up until now, only my trust in reputations has allowed me to be comfortable, along with provenance and labels, chain of custody, etc. Yet, now I'll hesitate to acquire whole stones (one of my favorites is to collect wholes and stand-up-by-themselves specimens)...without knowing the back-story comes from someone with honor. I will, however, not hesitate to buy specimens from those of you whole continue to demonstrate honor. Reputations are as important as thorough classifications. This recent incident is exactly what we don't need. If there is honor anywhere, it has been demonstrated by the refundings/returns of those unfortunate to have been affected. Congrats to those of you who did. Only finding the head of the snake will put this all to rest. Or, we all carry microprobes in our backpacks. Richard Montgomery __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Teachin' a pig to dance is a waste of time and it irritates the pig Mark Twain -- 1. Whenever you're wrong, admit it, 2. Whenever you're right, shut up. Shaquille O'Neal __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ANSWER - whole stone concerns
Hello Michael, It really is not that easy. As this example illustrates, even honest dealers can be duped. I purchase meteorites from a very small list of dealers. Very small. I have done business with some for 15 years; two I started buying from this year. All have earned my complete trust. However... While I trust these dealer to not intentionally dupe me, how do I know they trust their sources and they have done their due diligence in the same way I have? As an example, I applaud Anne Black for setting the example of providing provenance for her meteorites but how am I assured the person who sold a given specimen it to Anne did what Anne and I would have done? BTW, I trust Anne. I sold some meteorites recently. I listed the dealers I purchased the meteorites from. I sold one last week that I obtained from Matt Morgan. I told the purchaser I got it from Matt. Did Matt vett his source, as I have done Matt? I don't know. Did the person before them? I don't know. BTW, I trust Matt. Remember the, what was it, sandstone dinosaur egg incident? As we can see, the chain of custody can become quite complicated. I have been concerned for a long time now about this sort of thing happening. The surprising thing to me is that it did not happen sooner. This whole incident is really getting to me. I have had it on my mind all day. -Walter Branch - Original Message - From: Michael Blood mlbl...@cox.net To: Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net; Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 4:53 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ANSWER - whole stone concerns How can I be sure that any whole stone be properly labeled as classified? -- Easy, We have only been saying this on the list since The list began: Buy from a dealer known for honesty And integrity. God bless the IMCA and the hard workers of the Board BUT I do not consider an IMCA number to be The equivalent of honesty and integrity. I know an example where two new dealers applied. One was accepted The other was told to, essentially, get some more experience Under his belt. Well, I knew him personally as a person Of honor. The irony was I also knew the other dealer and That individual had attempted to increase price on me AFTER I had sent money for a new fall. Between the Two, there was no question in my mind in whom I would Have confidence. So, no, I do not consider an IMCA logo Sufficient in and of itself to guarantee authenticity. (I DO consider it sufficient to pursue action if I am defrauded, However) Additionally, failing to KNOW people who have long Standing honorable dealings - such as ET, Mike Farmer, Anne Black, Geoff Notkin, etc, etc, etc, then I would take An unknown IMCA member over an entirely unknown entity. In fact, I would not deal with an entirely unknown Entity again - unless I KNEW what I was getting was What I was paying for through other sources than the Seller. (IE I could see by looking at it, it has distinctive Features unique to that fall, the seller bought his stash From someone I know, etc). So, the answer to your question is simple: Buy only From dealers you know AND TRUST or, at the very least from IMCA members. Warm regards, Michael On 5/8/11 8:54 AM, Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net wrote: Hello List. This latest Mifflin business has me very disturbed, and brings up a question I've been meaning to ask you all for a while now: How can I be sure that any whole stone be properly labeled as classified? Of course there are obvious stones like Camel Donga, (all those that stand alone with external character)...but up until now, only my trust in reputations has allowed me to be comfortable, along with provenance and labels, chain of custody, etc. Yet, now I'll hesitate to acquire whole stones (one of my favorites is to collect wholes and stand-up-by-themselves specimens)...without knowing the back-story comes from someone with honor. I will, however, not hesitate to buy specimens from those of you whole continue to demonstrate honor. Reputations are as important as thorough classifications. This recent incident is exactly what we don't need. If there is honor anywhere, it has been demonstrated by the refundings/returns of those unfortunate to have been affected. Congrats to those of you who did. Only finding the head of the snake will put this all to rest. Or, we all carry microprobes in our backpacks. Richard Montgomery __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Teachin' a pig to dance is a waste of time and it irritates the pig Mark Twain -- 1. Whenever you're wrong, admit it, 2. Whenever you're right, shut up. Shaquille O'Neal
Re: [meteorite-list] ANSWER - whole stone concerns
OK, I think all of you are right. Therefore, you should all send me Your entire meteorite collections - then I will be stuck with any and All fakes in your collections. Just trying to be helpful, Michael On 5/8/11 5:17 PM, Walter Branch waltbra...@bellsouth.net wrote: Hello Michael, It really is not that easy. As this example illustrates, even honest dealers can be duped. I purchase meteorites from a very small list of dealers. Very small. I have done business with some for 15 years; two I started buying from this year. All have earned my complete trust. However... While I trust these dealer to not intentionally dupe me, how do I know they trust their sources and they have done their due diligence in the same way I have? As an example, I applaud Anne Black for setting the example of providing provenance for her meteorites but how am I assured the person who sold a given specimen it to Anne did what Anne and I would have done? BTW, I trust Anne. I sold some meteorites recently. I listed the dealers I purchased the meteorites from. I sold one last week that I obtained from Matt Morgan. I told the purchaser I got it from Matt. Did Matt vett his source, as I have done Matt? I don't know. Did the person before them? I don't know. BTW, I trust Matt. Remember the, what was it, sandstone dinosaur egg incident? As we can see, the chain of custody can become quite complicated. I have been concerned for a long time now about this sort of thing happening. The surprising thing to me is that it did not happen sooner. This whole incident is really getting to me. I have had it on my mind all day. -Walter Branch - Original Message - From: Michael Blood mlbl...@cox.net To: Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net; Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 4:53 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ANSWER - whole stone concerns How can I be sure that any whole stone be properly labeled as classified? -- Easy, We have only been saying this on the list since The list began: Buy from a dealer known for honesty And integrity. God bless the IMCA and the hard workers of the Board BUT I do not consider an IMCA number to be The equivalent of honesty and integrity. I know an example where two new dealers applied. One was accepted The other was told to, essentially, get some more experience Under his belt. Well, I knew him personally as a person Of honor. The irony was I also knew the other dealer and That individual had attempted to increase price on me AFTER I had sent money for a new fall. Between the Two, there was no question in my mind in whom I would Have confidence. So, no, I do not consider an IMCA logo Sufficient in and of itself to guarantee authenticity. (I DO consider it sufficient to pursue action if I am defrauded, However) Additionally, failing to KNOW people who have long Standing honorable dealings - such as ET, Mike Farmer, Anne Black, Geoff Notkin, etc, etc, etc, then I would take An unknown IMCA member over an entirely unknown entity. In fact, I would not deal with an entirely unknown Entity again - unless I KNEW what I was getting was What I was paying for through other sources than the Seller. (IE I could see by looking at it, it has distinctive Features unique to that fall, the seller bought his stash From someone I know, etc). So, the answer to your question is simple: Buy only From dealers you know AND TRUST or, at the very least from IMCA members. Warm regards, Michael On 5/8/11 8:54 AM, Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net wrote: Hello List. This latest Mifflin business has me very disturbed, and brings up a question I've been meaning to ask you all for a while now: How can I be sure that any whole stone be properly labeled as classified? Of course there are obvious stones like Camel Donga, (all those that stand alone with external character)...but up until now, only my trust in reputations has allowed me to be comfortable, along with provenance and labels, chain of custody, etc. Yet, now I'll hesitate to acquire whole stones (one of my favorites is to collect wholes and stand-up-by-themselves specimens)...without knowing the back-story comes from someone with honor. I will, however, not hesitate to buy specimens from those of you whole continue to demonstrate honor. Reputations are as important as thorough classifications. This recent incident is exactly what we don't need. If there is honor anywhere, it has been demonstrated by the refundings/returns of those unfortunate to have been affected. Congrats to those of you who did. Only finding the head of the snake will put this all to rest. Or, we all carry microprobes in our backpacks. Richard Montgomery __ Visit the Archives at http
Re: [meteorite-list] ANSWER - whole stone concerns
Well, Walter, I cannot speak for Matt, but I have found that getting complete provenance and Proof of provenance is not always all that easy. I just discussed with a collector who has been collecting for many years, but has moved several times in his life; he could tell me exactly what each piece was and who he had bought it from (and some were from Matt) but he has lost most of the paperwork. And 2 years ago I bought a whole collection (some 200 pieces) that had been boxed and stored in a closet for at least ten years. Again, some of the labels and receipts were there but not all of them, some were missing, some he just had little pieces of paper that he had handwritten and stuffed in the boxes. Since he had stopped collecting some ten years prior, much before meteorites got popular, I decided to take his word for it, but I had some of the pieces verified. So I believe I have the right stuff, but you will have to take my word for it, and you will only get my label. In other words, it is the same old story: know your dealer, and deal only with dealers you trust. Does that help? Anne M. Black _www.IMPACTIKA.com_ (http://www.IMPACTIKA.com) _IMPACTIKA@aol.com_ (mailto:impact...@aol.com) President of IMCA _www.IMCA.cc_ (http://www.IMCA.cc) In a message dated 5/8/2011 6:27:18 PM Mountain Daylight Time, waltbra...@bellsouth.net writes: Hello Michael, It really is not that easy. As this example illustrates, even honest dealers can be duped. I purchase meteorites from a very small list of dealers. Very small. I have done business with some for 15 years; two I started buying from this year. All have earned my complete trust. However... While I trust these dealer to not intentionally dupe me, how do I know they trust their sources and they have done their due diligence in the same way I have? As an example, I applaud Anne Black for setting the example of providing provenance for her meteorites but how am I assured the person who sold a given specimen it to Anne did what Anne and I would have done? BTW, I trust Anne. I sold some meteorites recently. I listed the dealers I purchased the meteorites from. I sold one last week that I obtained from Matt Morgan. I told the purchaser I got it from Matt. Did Matt vett his source, as I have done Matt? I don't know. Did the person before them? I don't know. BTW, I trust Matt. Remember the, what was it, sandstone dinosaur egg incident? As we can see, the chain of custody can become quite complicated. I have been concerned for a long time now about this sort of thing happening. The surprising thing to me is that it did not happen sooner. This whole incident is really getting to me. I have had it on my mind all day. -Walter Branch __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ANSWER - whole stone concerns
It's not that easy for the collector. There are some dealers out there who take offense when the collector asks about the provenance of the samples. And that includes some IMCA members as well. Mark Grossman Meteorite Manuscripts - Original Message - From: impact...@aol.com To: waltbra...@bellsouth.net; mlbl...@cox.net; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 10:14 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ANSWER - whole stone concerns Well, Walter, I cannot speak for Matt, but I have found that getting complete provenance and Proof of provenance is not always all that easy. I just discussed with a collector who has been collecting for many years, but has moved several times in his life; he could tell me exactly what each piece was and who he had bought it from (and some were from Matt) but he has lost most of the paperwork. And 2 years ago I bought a whole collection (some 200 pieces) that had been boxed and stored in a closet for at least ten years. Again, some of the labels and receipts were there but not all of them, some were missing, some he just had little pieces of paper that he had handwritten and stuffed in the boxes. Since he had stopped collecting some ten years prior, much before meteorites got popular, I decided to take his word for it, but I had some of the pieces verified. So I believe I have the right stuff, but you will have to take my word for it, and you will only get my label. In other words, it is the same old story: know your dealer, and deal only with dealers you trust. Does that help? Anne M. Black _www.IMPACTIKA.com_ (http://www.IMPACTIKA.com) _IMPACTIKA@aol.com_ (mailto:impact...@aol.com) President of IMCA _www.IMCA.cc_ (http://www.IMCA.cc) In a message dated 5/8/2011 6:27:18 PM Mountain Daylight Time, waltbra...@bellsouth.net writes: Hello Michael, It really is not that easy. As this example illustrates, even honest dealers can be duped. I purchase meteorites from a very small list of dealers. Very small. I have done business with some for 15 years; two I started buying from this year. All have earned my complete trust. However... While I trust these dealer to not intentionally dupe me, how do I know they trust their sources and they have done their due diligence in the same way I have? As an example, I applaud Anne Black for setting the example of providing provenance for her meteorites but how am I assured the person who sold a given specimen it to Anne did what Anne and I would have done? BTW, I trust Anne. I sold some meteorites recently. I listed the dealers I purchased the meteorites from. I sold one last week that I obtained from Matt Morgan. I told the purchaser I got it from Matt. Did Matt vett his source, as I have done Matt? I don't know. Did the person before them? I don't know. BTW, I trust Matt. Remember the, what was it, sandstone dinosaur egg incident? As we can see, the chain of custody can become quite complicated. I have been concerned for a long time now about this sort of thing happening. The surprising thing to me is that it did not happen sooner. This whole incident is really getting to me. I have had it on my mind all day. -Walter Branch __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ANSWER - whole stone concerns
Yes, Mark, I know, it has been discussed before and I believe that is wrong. And that goes back to what I just said: Know your dealer and buy only from dealers you trust. Anne M. Black _http://www.impactika.com/_ (http://www.impactika.com/) _IMPACTIKA@aol.com_ (mailto:impact...@aol.com) President, I.M.C.A. Inc. _http://www.imca.cc/_ (http://www.imca.cc/) In a message dated 5/8/2011 8:23:56 PM Mountain Daylight Time, mar...@westnet.com writes: It's not that easy for the collector. There are some dealers out there who take offense when the collector asks about the provenance of the samples. And that includes some IMCA members as well. Mark Grossman Meteorite Manuscripts __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ANSWER - whole stone concerns
Anne- Does that help? No problem, thus nothing to help. and Proof of provenance is not always all that easy Which was the point of my post. -Walter - Original Message - From: impact...@aol.com To: waltbra...@bellsouth.net; mlbl...@cox.net; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 10:14 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ANSWER - whole stone concerns Well, Walter, I cannot speak for Matt, but I have found that getting complete provenance and Proof of provenance is not always all that easy. I just discussed with a collector who has been collecting for many years, but has moved several times in his life; he could tell me exactly what each piece was and who he had bought it from (and some were from Matt) but he has lost most of the paperwork. And 2 years ago I bought a whole collection (some 200 pieces) that had been boxed and stored in a closet for at least ten years. Again, some of the labels and receipts were there but not all of them, some were missing, some he just had little pieces of paper that he had handwritten and stuffed in the boxes. Since he had stopped collecting some ten years prior, much before meteorites got popular, I decided to take his word for it, but I had some of the pieces verified. So I believe I have the right stuff, but you will have to take my word for it, and you will only get my label. In other words, it is the same old story: know your dealer, and deal only with dealers you trust. Does that help? Anne M. Black _www.IMPACTIKA.com_ (http://www.IMPACTIKA.com) _IMPACTIKA@aol.com_ (mailto:impact...@aol.com) President of IMCA _www.IMCA.cc_ (http://www.IMCA.cc) In a message dated 5/8/2011 6:27:18 PM Mountain Daylight Time, waltbra...@bellsouth.net writes: Hello Michael, It really is not that easy. As this example illustrates, even honest dealers can be duped. I purchase meteorites from a very small list of dealers. Very small. I have done business with some for 15 years; two I started buying from this year. All have earned my complete trust. However... While I trust these dealer to not intentionally dupe me, how do I know they trust their sources and they have done their due diligence in the same way I have? As an example, I applaud Anne Black for setting the example of providing provenance for her meteorites but how am I assured the person who sold a given specimen it to Anne did what Anne and I would have done? BTW, I trust Anne. I sold some meteorites recently. I listed the dealers I purchased the meteorites from. I sold one last week that I obtained from Matt Morgan. I told the purchaser I got it from Matt. Did Matt vett his source, as I have done Matt? I don't know. Did the person before them? I don't know. BTW, I trust Matt. Remember the, what was it, sandstone dinosaur egg incident? As we can see, the chain of custody can become quite complicated. I have been concerned for a long time now about this sort of thing happening. The surprising thing to me is that it did not happen sooner. This whole incident is really getting to me. I have had it on my mind all day. -Walter Branch __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ANSWER - whole stone concerns
No fakes in my collection! Well that's not entirely true. Mike Gilmer recently sent me some really cool looking iron meteoerwrongs but he identified them as such! Thanks Mike. I really don't collect meteorwrongs but they are interesting in their own right. There is a thread on one of the cloudy nights forums concerning a certain book which is passed from one amateur astronomer to another. The only requirement is that the person obtaining the book send it to someone else. No money exchanges hands - just the book. Anybody want to see these iron wrongs. Just email me and I will send them along but you have to do the same for someone else. -Walter Branch - Original Message - From: Michael Blood mlbl...@cox.net To: Walter Branch waltbra...@bellsouth.net; Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 9:48 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ANSWER - whole stone concerns OK, I think all of you are right. Therefore, you should all send me Your entire meteorite collections - then I will be stuck with any and All fakes in your collections. Just trying to be helpful, Michael On 5/8/11 5:17 PM, Walter Branch waltbra...@bellsouth.net wrote: Hello Michael, It really is not that easy. As this example illustrates, even honest dealers can be duped. I purchase meteorites from a very small list of dealers. Very small. I have done business with some for 15 years; two I started buying from this year. All have earned my complete trust. However... While I trust these dealer to not intentionally dupe me, how do I know they trust their sources and they have done their due diligence in the same way I have? As an example, I applaud Anne Black for setting the example of providing provenance for her meteorites but how am I assured the person who sold a given specimen it to Anne did what Anne and I would have done? BTW, I trust Anne. I sold some meteorites recently. I listed the dealers I purchased the meteorites from. I sold one last week that I obtained from Matt Morgan. I told the purchaser I got it from Matt. Did Matt vett his source, as I have done Matt? I don't know. Did the person before them? I don't know. BTW, I trust Matt. Remember the, what was it, sandstone dinosaur egg incident? As we can see, the chain of custody can become quite complicated. I have been concerned for a long time now about this sort of thing happening. The surprising thing to me is that it did not happen sooner. This whole incident is really getting to me. I have had it on my mind all day. -Walter Branch - Original Message - From: Michael Blood mlbl...@cox.net To: Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net; Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 4:53 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ANSWER - whole stone concerns How can I be sure that any whole stone be properly labeled as classified? -- Easy, We have only been saying this on the list since The list began: Buy from a dealer known for honesty And integrity. God bless the IMCA and the hard workers of the Board BUT I do not consider an IMCA number to be The equivalent of honesty and integrity. I know an example where two new dealers applied. One was accepted The other was told to, essentially, get some more experience Under his belt. Well, I knew him personally as a person Of honor. The irony was I also knew the other dealer and That individual had attempted to increase price on me AFTER I had sent money for a new fall. Between the Two, there was no question in my mind in whom I would Have confidence. So, no, I do not consider an IMCA logo Sufficient in and of itself to guarantee authenticity. (I DO consider it sufficient to pursue action if I am defrauded, However) Additionally, failing to KNOW people who have long Standing honorable dealings - such as ET, Mike Farmer, Anne Black, Geoff Notkin, etc, etc, etc, then I would take An unknown IMCA member over an entirely unknown entity. In fact, I would not deal with an entirely unknown Entity again - unless I KNEW what I was getting was What I was paying for through other sources than the Seller. (IE I could see by looking at it, it has distinctive Features unique to that fall, the seller bought his stash From someone I know, etc). So, the answer to your question is simple: Buy only From dealers you know AND TRUST or, at the very least from IMCA members. Warm regards, Michael On 5/8/11 8:54 AM, Richard Montgomery rickm...@earthlink.net wrote: Hello List. This latest Mifflin business has me very disturbed, and brings up a question I've been meaning to ask you all for a while now: How can I be sure that any whole stone be properly labeled as classified? Of course there are obvious stones like Camel Donga, (all those that stand alone with external character)...but up until now, only my trust in reputations has allowed me to be comfortable
Re: [meteorite-list] ANSWER - whole stone concerns
I have recieved some meteorites from list members with just the name of the meteorite hand written on a piece of paper and the weight . I WILL not mention any names because this may cause some problems on the list. It may however cause problems shold I die and the only documentation is the notes on the sample bag or box. The inside of one envelope actually had alongwith the sample in a riker box. A bunch of dirt in the envelope. The Carancas sample in the box did stick to a magnet and if it wasnt from an IMCA member I would still wonder if I had been ripped off. Cheers Steve Dunklee On Sun May 8th, 2011 10:39 PM EDT Walter Branch wrote: Anne- Does that help? No problem, thus nothing to help. and Proof of provenance is not always all that easy Which was the point of my post. -Walter - Original Message - From: impact...@aol.com To: waltbra...@bellsouth.net; mlbl...@cox.net; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 10:14 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] ANSWER - whole stone concerns Well, Walter, I cannot speak for Matt, but I have found that getting complete provenance and Proof of provenance is not always all that easy. I just discussed with a collector who has been collecting for many years, but has moved several times in his life; he could tell me exactly what each piece was and who he had bought it from (and some were from Matt) but he has lost most of the paperwork. And 2 years ago I bought a whole collection (some 200 pieces) that had been boxed and stored in a closet for at least ten years. Again, some of the labels and receipts were there but not all of them, some were missing, some he just had little pieces of paper that he had handwritten and stuffed in the boxes. Since he had stopped collecting some ten years prior, much before meteorites got popular, I decided to take his word for it, but I had some of the pieces verified. So I believe I have the right stuff, but you will have to take my word for it, and you will only get my label. In other words, it is the same old story: know your dealer, and deal only with dealers you trust. Does that help? Anne M. Black _www.IMPACTIKA.com_ (http://www.IMPACTIKA.com) _IMPACTIKA@aol.com_ (mailto:impact...@aol.com) President of IMCA _www.IMCA.cc_ (http://www.IMCA.cc) In a message dated 5/8/2011 6:27:18 PM Mountain Daylight Time, waltbra...@bellsouth.net writes: Hello Michael, It really is not that easy. As this example illustrates, even honest dealers can be duped. I purchase meteorites from a very small list of dealers. Very small. I have done business with some for 15 years; two I started buying from this year. All have earned my complete trust. However... While I trust these dealer to not intentionally dupe me, how do I know they trust their sources and they have done their due diligence in the same way I have? As an example, I applaud Anne Black for setting the example of providing provenance for her meteorites but how am I assured the person who sold a given specimen it to Anne did what Anne and I would have done? BTW, I trust Anne. I sold some meteorites recently. I listed the dealers I purchased the meteorites from. I sold one last week that I obtained from Matt Morgan. I told the purchaser I got it from Matt. Did Matt vett his source, as I have done Matt? I don't know. Did the person before them? I don't know. BTW, I trust Matt. Remember the, what was it, sandstone dinosaur egg incident? As we can see, the chain of custody can become quite complicated. I have been concerned for a long time now about this sort of thing happening. The surprising thing to me is that it did not happen sooner. This whole incident is really getting to me. I have had it on my mind all day. -Walter Branch __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
