[meteorite-list] Ensisheim tkw compilation: RESULTS
Dear list, I wish to thank many of you for having provided new or corrected data for my compilation of Ensisheim meteorite masses. Now that the reception of such data had slowed down significantly, I am ready to send you, on request, my provisional compilation list as updated by March 6, 2007. Just feel free to ask for a copy, off list. Note; this list could be found on the Ensisheim web site in a near future). I also made the first evaluations and here are the results with some comments: 1) So far there are 158 different repositories, 73 of them involving official institutes, museums and 85 being in private hands. 2) While the total mass in each repository is accurate (the weights are taken as received), it is difficult to evaluate how many pieces are deposited in each place. When the number of pieces held in a (mostly private) collection is known, this was indicated (if more than one). 3) Except in few cases (Paris, London museums), the precision is within one gram, meaning that the meteorite was probably never weighed with a higher accuracy, even if the mass is small. 4) The presently existing total mass computed so far reaches 69,046.385 grams, which represents 54.37% of the initial mass that is thought to be 127 kg, meaning that more than 45 % are still missing ! (or at least not on the present census). 5) The mass repartition is very inequivalent, thus: - Museums institutes: 67,735.126 g (98.1%) - Private collections: 1,311.259 g (1.9%) (Note that the 53,831 g held at the Regency Palace in Ensisheim represent almost 78% of the big total (Institutes + private)). 6) The largest mass held in a private collection is with Marlin Cilz (416 g, 6th rank), but this (old) number would require confirmation (see below). The smallest mass held in a private collection, 0.05 g, was so far reported by Rhett Bourland (Evansville, IN). The smallest mass held in an official institute (rank 133) is from Black Hills Inst Geol. Res. (SD) and weighs 0.946 g 7) As reported before, my compilation was based on previous repositories or set of data, basically stemming from MetBase (2003), BM catalog (Grady 2000), Ensisheim archives (Schmützer, 1993), more recently completed by data provided by R. Kempton, NEMS (2003), Jörn Koblitz (2007 MetBase edition) and Pierre-Marie Pelé (his own compilation achieved in 2006-2007 that allowed me to precise many old museum/institute old figures). Most of the private repositories come from your own data kindly sent on a regular basis through the list. Some reports came more recently from the subscribers of P.-M. Pelés Encyclopedia of Meteorites, upon specific call. I warmly thank again all of you for this extremely valuable help! 8) My compilation is being increased and improved permanently and your further help is always very much appreciated. Here are some data that Id like to complete and for which I could not contact the owner(s) directly, for various reasons. If anyone can help, this will be more than great. Some specific questions: A) I need the accurate masses held in the following museums, for which I have old data ( 20 years) and/or inaccurate masses (the masses (in grams) I have, are given in parentheses): Berlin (905), Vienna (660), Tübingen (316), US NM (WA) (258), Uppsala (SE) (210), Tempe (AZ) (209), Cambridge (GB) (133), AMS (NY) (111), Göttingen (111), Calcutta (77), Basel (77), Copenhagen (74), Strasbourg (FR) (74), Oxford (GB) (71), Paris Ecole des Mines (38), Freiberg (DE) (28), Harvard (MA) 21), Moscow Geol. Mus (11), Tallin (ES) (11), TCU Fort Worth (only 4.3 g ), St Petersburg (RU) (4) some museum in Holland (???) B) Same question, from the following private collections: Cilz (416), Labenne (88), Haag (85), Horejsi (28.2), Heinlein (26.5), Du Pont coll (8 g still exists ?) C) The repositories are classified by cities (as in MetBase). I need the following data: Is J. Schwade living in Kankakee or in Crystal Lake ? Is Marc Labenne living in Sarasota (FL) or in Tergnion (France) ? Which are the cities and US States where live: - R. C. Cavalieri (USA) ? - J.-M. Daillier (France) ? - P. Pibburns (USA) ? THANKS SO MUCH ONCE MORE ! Best wishes, Zelimir Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim tkw compilation: RESULTS
Dear Zelimir; I enjoyed reading your post. Just a thought, when is France going to pressure all colletors/collections to give their specimens back? Dave F. Zelimir Gabelica wrote: Dear list, I wish to thank many of you for having provided new or corrected data for my compilation of Ensisheim meteorite masses. Now that the reception of such data had slowed down significantly, I am ready to send you, on request, my provisional compilation list as updated by March 6, 2007. Just feel free to ask for a copy, off list. Note; this list could be found on the Ensisheim web site in a near future). I also made the first evaluations and here are the results with some comments: 1) So far there are 158 different repositories, 73 of them involving official institutes, museums…and 85 being in private hands. 2) While the total mass in each repository is accurate (the weights are taken as received), it is difficult to evaluate how many pieces are deposited in each place. When the number of pieces held in a (mostly private) collection is known, this was indicated (if more than one). 3) Except in few cases (Paris, London…museums), the precision is within one gram, meaning that the meteorite was probably never weighed with a higher accuracy, even if the mass is small. 4) The presently existing total mass computed so far reaches 69,046.385 grams, which represents 54.37% of the initial mass that is thought to be 127 kg, meaning that more than 45 % are still missing ! (or at least not on the present census). 5) The mass repartition is very inequivalent, thus: - Museums institutes: 67,735.126 g (98.1%) - Private collections: 1,311.259 g (1.9%) (Note that the 53,831 g held at the Regency Palace in Ensisheim represent almost 78% of the big total (Institutes + private)). 6) The largest mass held in a private collection is with Marlin Cilz (416 g, 6th rank), but this (old) number would require confirmation (see below). The smallest mass held in a private collection, 0.05 g, was so far reported by Rhett Bourland (Evansville, IN). The smallest mass held in an official institute (rank 133) is from Black Hills Inst Geol. Res. (SD) and weighs 0.946 g 7) As reported before, my compilation was based on previous repositories or set of data, basically stemming from MetBase (2003), BM catalog (Grady 2000), Ensisheim archives (Schmützer, 1993), more recently completed by data provided by R. Kempton, NEMS (2003), Jörn Koblitz (2007 MetBase edition) and Pierre-Marie Pelé (his own compilation achieved in 2006-2007 that allowed me to precise many old museum/institute old figures). Most of the private repositories come from your own data kindly sent on a regular basis through the list. Some reports came more recently from the subscribers of P.-M. Pelé’s “Encyclopedia of Meteorites”, upon specific call. I warmly thank again all of you for this extremely valuable help! 8) My compilation is being increased and improved permanently and your further help is always very much appreciated. Here are some data that I’d like to complete and for which I could not contact the owner(s) directly, for various reasons. If anyone can help, this will be more than great. Some specific questions: A) I need the accurate masses held in the following museums, for which I have old data ( 20 years) and/or inaccurate masses (the masses (in grams) I have, are given in parentheses): Berlin (905), Vienna (660), Tübingen (316), US NM (WA) (258), Uppsala (SE) (210), Tempe (AZ) (209), Cambridge (GB) (133), AMS (NY) (111), Göttingen (111), Calcutta (77), Basel (77), Copenhagen (74), Strasbourg (FR) (74), Oxford (GB) (71), Paris Ecole des Mines (38), Freiberg (DE) (28), Harvard (MA) 21), Moscow Geol. Mus (11), Tallin (ES) (11), TCU Fort Worth (“only” 4.3 g…), St Petersburg (RU) (4)…some museum in Holland (???) B) Same question, from the following private collections: Cilz (416), Labenne (88), Haag (85), Horejsi (28.2), Heinlein (26.5), Du Pont coll (8 g…still exists ?) C) The repositories are classified by cities (as in MetBase). I need the following data: Is J. Schwade living in Kankakee or in Crystal Lake ? Is Marc Labenne living in Sarasota (FL) or in Tergnion (France) ? Which are the cities and US States where live: - R. C. Cavalieri (USA) ? - J.-M. Daillier (France) ? - P. Pibburns (USA) ? THANKS SO MUCH ONCE MORE ! Best wishes, Zelimir Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim tkw compilation: RESULTS
The same case in the work I am under build on italian meteorite, of the Alfianello, on 228 kg. tkw, only at 70 kg. its know. For not speack of Vago... Matteo --- Zelimir Gabelica [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: Dear list, I wish to thank many of you for having provided new or corrected data for my compilation of Ensisheim meteorite masses. Now that the reception of such data had slowed down significantly, I am ready to send you, on request, my provisional compilation list as updated by March 6, 2007. Just feel free to ask for a copy, off list. Note; this list could be found on the Ensisheim web site in a near future). I also made the first evaluations and here are the results with some comments: 1) So far there are 158 different repositories, 73 of them involving official institutes, museums and 85 being in private hands. 2) While the total mass in each repository is accurate (the weights are taken as received), it is difficult to evaluate how many pieces are deposited in each place. When the number of pieces held in a (mostly private) collection is known, this was indicated (if more than one). 3) Except in few cases (Paris, London museums), the precision is within one gram, meaning that the meteorite was probably never weighed with a higher accuracy, even if the mass is small. 4) The presently existing total mass computed so far reaches 69,046.385 grams, which represents 54.37% of the initial mass that is thought to be 127 kg, meaning that more than 45 % are still missing ! (or at least not on the present census). 5) The mass repartition is very inequivalent, thus: - Museums institutes: 67,735.126 g (98.1%) - Private collections: 1,311.259 g (1.9%) (Note that the 53,831 g held at the Regency Palace in Ensisheim represent almost 78% of the big total (Institutes + private)). 6) The largest mass held in a private collection is with Marlin Cilz (416 g, 6th rank), but this (old) number would require confirmation (see below). The smallest mass held in a private collection, 0.05 g, was so far reported by Rhett Bourland (Evansville, IN). The smallest mass held in an official institute (rank 133) is from Black Hills Inst Geol. Res. (SD) and weighs 0.946 g 7) As reported before, my compilation was based on previous repositories or set of data, basically stemming from MetBase (2003), BM catalog (Grady 2000), Ensisheim archives (Schmützer, 1993), more recently completed by data provided by R. Kempton, NEMS (2003), Jörn Koblitz (2007 MetBase edition) and Pierre-Marie Pelé (his own compilation achieved in 2006-2007 that allowed me to precise many old museum/institute old figures). Most of the private repositories come from your own data kindly sent on a regular basis through the list. Some reports came more recently from the subscribers of P.-M. Pelés Encyclopedia of Meteorites, upon specific call. I warmly thank again all of you for this extremely valuable help! 8) My compilation is being increased and improved permanently and your further help is always very much appreciated. Here are some data that Id like to complete and for which I could not contact the owner(s) directly, for various reasons. If anyone can help, this will be more than great. Some specific questions: A) I need the accurate masses held in the following museums, for which I have old data ( 20 years) and/or inaccurate masses (the masses (in grams) I have, are given in parentheses): Berlin (905), Vienna (660), Tübingen (316), US NM (WA) (258), Uppsala (SE) (210), Tempe (AZ) (209), Cambridge (GB) (133), AMS (NY) (111), Göttingen (111), Calcutta (77), Basel (77), Copenhagen (74), Strasbourg (FR) (74), Oxford (GB) (71), Paris Ecole des Mines (38), Freiberg (DE) (28), Harvard (MA) 21), Moscow Geol. Mus (11), Tallin (ES) (11), TCU Fort Worth (only 4.3 g ), St Petersburg (RU) (4) some museum in Holland (???) B) Same question, from the following private collections: Cilz (416), Labenne (88), Haag (85), Horejsi (28.2), Heinlein (26.5), Du Pont coll (8 g still exists ?) C) The repositories are classified by cities (as in MetBase). I need the following data: Is J. Schwade living in Kankakee or in Crystal Lake ? Is Marc Labenne living in Sarasota (FL) or in Tergnion (France) ? Which are the cities and US States where live: - R. C. Cavalieri (USA) ? - J.-M. Daillier (France) ? - P. Pibburns (USA) ? THANKS SO MUCH ONCE MORE ! Best wishes, Zelimir Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Université de Haute Alsace ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC, 3, Rue A. Werner, F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato Via Triestina
[meteorite-list] Ensisheim tkw
Hello List, In late 2003, I started a compilation of the weights of all the Ensisheim meteorite fragments, slices...owned in museums, institutes, private collections... I received much help from the list and, after completing the official data, I came up by December 11, 2003 with the following list (see balow) that was most probably far from being complete but that represented so far the best approximation of what was where. In particular, I did not contact the official institutes, museums...to ask them to update their published data (in various journals, books, publications...) so that substantial discrepancies appeared when (only) 3 officiel sources were compared (see part I below). At that time, my call for the total mass of Ensisheim meteorite samples preserved in private and public collections was aimed at trying to find out whether there was a difference (gap) between the initial mass (127 kg) and the present total mass of all Ensisheim fragments dispersed in collections, including the main massheld in Regency Palace of Ensisheim (53.831 kg). To make a long story short, my preliminary compilation, although far from being exhaustive, strongly suggested that this difference is substantial and probably reflects various losses and destructions during 515+ years. The present similar call for the weights (masses) of Ensisheim represented in your collections has a double goal: 1) To complete, update and/or correct the 2003 compilation below, so as to allow Jörn Koblitz (Met Base) and others to update the official repository listings. 2) To add such an updated list to a pamphlet we wish to print and include in the catalog of the forthcoming Ensisheim 2007 meteorite show that will be distributed to all the participants next 15-17 June. This must be printed quite soon so I would very much appreciate a prompt answer from all those who are the happy owners of some Ensisheim piece(s) or also who know about pieces held elsewhere (out of the list influence). I'll keep you regularly informed with the results. THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH! All my best wishes, Zelimir --- Preliminary compilation of the Ensisheim meteorite weights, owned by different institutes or held in private collections, as compiled by Zelimir Gabelica (France). Last update: December 11, 2003, 12:00 GMT Part I: Comparison of data from 3 different sources: 1) List of repositories and private collection weights coming from database recently built by Russell Kempton (NEMS) and sent to me as per Dec. 1, 2003. 2) Weights listed in the BM. Catalog (M. Grady, Ed. 2000) 3) Weights reported in our own Red Book archiving the History of Ensisheim (ENSISHEIM, Son Histoire à travers les Pierres, edited by the Confrérie St Georges des Gardiens de la Météorite d'Ensisheim, Sept. 1993, 133 pp, Table p 25 (World Distribution of the Ensisheim Meteorite Fragments, as compiled by J. Schmutzer, Hamburg, Gremany), data that are probably fragmentary and that need updating. PlaceNEMS BM CatalogRed Book Ensisheim, Musée Régence (*) 54.51 kg 55.75kg 55.75kg Paris, Mus. d'Hist. Nat 10.2 kg 9.79 kg9.79kg London; Nat. Hist. Mus. 911g 911.2g689g (!) Berlin, Mus.Humboldt Univ. 906g 905g 905g Vienna, Naturhist. Mus. 660g 588g (!) 660g Washington, U.S. Nat. Mus.235g 258g (!) 458g (!!) Tübingen, Min.-Petrogr. Inst. 220g 316g (!) 316g (!) Uppsala Univ. Mus. - -210g (?) Malta, Montana, M. Cilz coll.- - 504g (?) Tempe, Arizona State Univ.155g 209g (!)209.5g (!) Brussels, Inst. Roy. Sci. Mus. 191g-191.4g Zürich, ETH 189g- - Modena, Min. Inst. Univ. 177g - 177g Tucson, Haag coll. (**). 176g-176g Cambridge, Univ.(GB)133g-147g Chicago, Field Mus. N. Hist. 115g109g 110g New York, Amer. Mus. N. Hist. 112g111g 127g Göttingen, Min. Inst. Univ. 111g-158.6g (!) Karlsruhe Univ. - - 142.0g (?) Stockholm, Naturhist. Riksmus.80g - 51.0g (!) Troyes, Mus. d'Hist. Nat. 79.1g - 82.0g (!) Calcutta, Mus. Geol. Surv. India 77g 77g 76.9g Copenhagen, Univ. Geol. Mus. 77g -77.0g Rome, Vatican
Re: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim tkw
Hello All, When I was inducted at the Ensisheim 2004 show, I acquired a small, 0.773-gram fragment from list member Peter Marmet. This piece originally came from Anne Black. It is small part slice, no crust, has a mottled appearance, abundant FeNi, melt veinlets, and abundant finely dispersed troilite. Cheers, Bernd To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim tkw
The similarities are amazing. Beautiful bars of multicolor with yellow bands at an angle to the bleish,greenish,reddish bands... Are all thin sections of like specimens this close or is this a fluke? Gary On 10 Jan 2007 at 21:03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello All, When I was inducted at the Ensisheim 2004 show, I acquired a small, 0.773-gram fragment from list member Peter Marmet. This piece originally came from Anne Black. It is small part slice, no crust, has a mottled appearance, abundant FeNi, melt veinlets, and abundant finely dispersed troilite. Cheers, Bernd To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim tkw
In a message dated 1/10/2007 2:07:09 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello All, When I was inducted at the Ensisheim 2004 show, I acquired a small, 0.773-gram fragment from list member Peter Marmet. This piece originally came from Anne Black. It is small part slice, no crust, has a mottled appearance, abundant FeNi, melt veinlets, and abundant finely dispersed troilite. Cheers, Bernd - And before me it came from Alain Carion, but now he refuses to cut anymore off his piece . Sorry. Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] President, I.M.C.A. Inc. www.IMCA.cc __ Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Ensisheim tkw compilation update
Dear list, I wish first to thank all of you who sent me data and weights of Ensisheim meteorites that are in your private collections. As many of you asked to be kept in touch about the progress of my compilation, I am enclosing herewith, as attachment, this updated listing. Please complete and correct if necessary. I would in particular appreciate knowing the city and country where your collection is stored. I am also continuing to look forward to hearing from new repositories as there by no means should be more among the list collectors or dealers. I also wanted to send again, in a more readable form than in my first mail, the big comparative Table, listing repositories and (some) private collection weights coming from database recently built by Russell Kempton (NEMS) and sent to ma as per Dec. 1, 2003. In this table, I have compared these values: 1) to those listed in the BM. Catalogue (M. Grady, Ed. 2000) (column 2 of the table) and also: 3) to those reported in our own Red Book archiving the History of Ensisheim (ENSISHEIM, Son Histoire à travers les Pierres, edited by the Confrérie St Georges des Gardiens de la Météorite d'Ensisheim, Sept. 1993, 133 pp, Table p 25 (World Distribution of the Ensisheim Meteorite Fragments, as compiled by J. Schmutzer, Hamburg, Gremany), data that are probably fragmentary and that need updating. Upon sending this table as attachmant by last Friday to all of you, the list moderator warned me that the so sent message was too long, (over 20 KB) and therefore this table is not included in the present message. I'd be happy to send it, as attachment, to anyone interested and asking me specifically to send it. Anyway, I will be sending this table to Russell who kindly provided me his own data and I'd appreciate to hear his comments about the discrepancies of the tkw's as listed in the 3 culumns of table. So far, I tend to consider Russell's data, that stem from recent compilation of various data bases, as the most reliable. However, this list is for sure not definite and probably many errors subsist in each comumn, as perhaps some of the official institutes did not report recent updatings. My next task will be then to contact each of the institutes, universities or museums individually. A heavy but stimulating task. Any help from any of you is always warmly welcome! Thank you very much and have a great day (or night) Zelimir Preliminary listing of the Ensisheim meteorite weights from private collections of some list members, as compiled by Zelimir Gabelica (France). (updated December 9, 2002, 18:00 GMT) Honolulu, Joseph Murakami coll. 45g Waldkirch, Renate Michael Buckler coll. 16.1g Oleye , Zelimir Gabelica coll. 15.82g City?, Rob Wezel coll. 12.82 NEMS sales stock about 9g City?, Fred Olsen coll.(15 pieces)6.850g City ?, Peter Scherff (2 pieces 5.25g Chicago, Steve Arnold coll. 3.7g City ?, Mauro Ianeselli 3.2g City ?, Eric Olson coll. 2.05g City ?, David Hardy coll. 1.8g Tessera, Matteo Chinellato coll.1.56g City?, Thomas Webb coll. 1.3885g City?, Charlie Devine coll. 1.346g City?, Steven Drummond coll.1.342g Linger, Guy Heinen coll.0.85g Helsinki, Frederick Janik coll. 0.3g City?, Julien Courtois coll. 0.22g Evansville (?), Rhett Bourland coll. 0.05g -- ** Prof. Zelimir Gabelica Groupe Sécurité et Ecologie Chimiques (GSEC) - ENSCMu 3, rue A. Werner F-68093 MULHOUSE Cedex, FRANCE Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94 FAX: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ** __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim tkw compilation update
thank you for the follow-up on an otherwise very intelligent, outstanding job in repsonse to my question about ens. provenance. it is interesting to note that suprisingly, and unlike in artifacts, that this meteorite is seldom faked. most artifact crooks go straight for the wallet -faking high-end paleos and florida coral pieces most often. a veryinteresting contrast indeed. i have been accosted by someone faking ga tektites with moldavites. as an owner of ga tektite, i rolled my eyes and walked way- restaining my burning desire to give a local reconstructive orthopedic surgeon some good business from that crook.
From: Zelimir Gabelica <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim tkw compilation update
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 18:43:47 +0100
Dear list,
I wish first to thank all of you who sent me data and weights of Ensisheim
meteorites that are in your private collections.
As many of you asked to be kept in touch about the progress of my
compilation, I am enclosing herewith, as attachment, this updated listing.
Please complete and correct if necessary. I would in particular appreciate
knowing the city and country where your collection is stored.
I am also continuing to look forward to hearing from new repositories as
there by no means should be more among the list collectors or dealers.
I also wanted to send again, in a more readable form than in my first mail,
the big comparative Table, listing repositories and (some) private
collection weights coming from database recently built by Russell Kempton
(NEMS) and sent to ma as per Dec. 1, 2003.
In this table, I have compared these values:
1) to those listed in the BM. Catalogue (M. Grady, Ed. 2000) (column 2 of
the table) and also:
3) to those reported in our own "Red Book" archiving the History of
Ensisheim ("ENSISHEIM, Son Histoire à travers les Pierres", edited by the
Confrérie St Georges des Gardiens de la Météorite d'Ensisheim, Sept. 1993,
133 pp, Table p 25 (World Distribution of the Ensisheim Meteorite Fragments,
as compiled by J. Schmutzer, Hamburg, Gremany), data that are probably
fragmentary and that need updating.
Upon sending this table as attachmant by last Friday to all of you, the list
moderator warned me that the so sent message was too long, (over 20 KB) and
therefore this table is not included in the present message.
I'd be happy to send it, as attachment, to anyone interested and asking me
specifically to send it.
Anyway, I will be sending this table to Russell who kindly provided me his
own data and I'd appreciate to hear his comments about the discrepancies of
the tkw's as listed in the 3 culumns of table.
So far, I tend to consider Russell's data, that stem from recent compilation
of various data bases, as the most reliable. However, this list is for sure
not definite and probably many errors subsist in each comumn, as perhaps
some of the official institutes did not report recent updatings.
My next task will be then to contact each of the institutes, universities or
museums individually.
A heavy but stimulating task. Any help from any of you is always warmly welcome!
Thank you very much and have a great day (or night)
Zelimir
Preliminary listing of the Ensisheim meteorite weights from private
collections of some list members, as compiled by Zelimir Gabelica (France).
(updated December 9, 2002, 18:00 GMT)
Honolulu, Joseph Murakami coll. 45g
Waldkirch, Renate Michael Buckler coll. 16.1g
Oleye , Zelimir Gabelica coll. 15.82g
City?, Rob Wezel coll. 12.82
NEMS sales stock about 9g
City?, Fred Olsen coll.(15 pieces) 6.850g
City ?, Peter Scherff (2 pieces 5.25g
Chicago, Steve Arnold coll. 3.7g
City ?, Mauro Ianeselli 3.2g
City ?, Eric Olson coll. 2.05g
City ?, David Hardy coll. 1.8g
Tessera, Matteo Chinellato coll. 1.56g
City?, Thomas Webb coll. 1.3885g
City?, Charlie Devine coll. 1.346g
City?, Steven Drummond coll. 1.342g
Linger, Guy Heinen coll. 0.85g
Helsinki, Frederick Janik coll. 0.3g
City?, Julien Courtois coll. 0.22g
Evansville (?), Rhett Bourland coll. 0.05g
--
**
Prof. Zelimir Gabelica
Groupe Sécurité et Ecologie Chimiques (GSEC) - ENSCMu
3, rue A. Werner
F-68093 MULHOUSE Cedex, FRANCE
Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94
FAX: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15
e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
**
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Re: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim tkw compilation update
thank you for the follow-up on an otherwise very intelligent, outstanding job in repsonse to my question about ens. provenance. it is interesting to note that suprisingly, and unlike in artifacts, that this meteorite is seldom faked. most artifact crooks go straight for the wallet -faking high-end paleos and florida coral pieces most often. a veryinteresting contrast indeed. i have been accosted by someone faking ga tektites with moldavites. as an owner of ga tektite, i rolled my eyes and walked way- restaining my burning desire to give a local reconstructive orthopedic surgeon some good business from that crook.
From: Zelimir Gabelica <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim tkw compilation update
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 18:43:47 +0100
Dear list,
I wish first to thank all of you who sent me data and weights of Ensisheim
meteorites that are in your private collections.
As many of you asked to be kept in touch about the progress of my
compilation, I am enclosing herewith, as attachment, this updated listing.
Please complete and correct if necessary. I would in particular appreciate
knowing the city and country where your collection is stored.
I am also continuing to look forward to hearing from new repositories as
there by no means should be more among the list collectors or dealers.
I also wanted to send again, in a more readable form than in my first mail,
the big comparative Table, listing repositories and (some) private
collection weights coming from database recently built by Russell Kempton
(NEMS) and sent to ma as per Dec. 1, 2003.
In this table, I have compared these values:
1) to those listed in the BM. Catalogue (M. Grady, Ed. 2000) (column 2 of
the table) and also:
3) to those reported in our own "Red Book" archiving the History of
Ensisheim ("ENSISHEIM, Son Histoire à travers les Pierres", edited by the
Confrérie St Georges des Gardiens de la Météorite d'Ensisheim, Sept. 1993,
133 pp, Table p 25 (World Distribution of the Ensisheim Meteorite Fragments,
as compiled by J. Schmutzer, Hamburg, Gremany), data that are probably
fragmentary and that need updating.
Upon sending this table as attachmant by last Friday to all of you, the list
moderator warned me that the so sent message was too long, (over 20 KB) and
therefore this table is not included in the present message.
I'd be happy to send it, as attachment, to anyone interested and asking me
specifically to send it.
Anyway, I will be sending this table to Russell who kindly provided me his
own data and I'd appreciate to hear his comments about the discrepancies of
the tkw's as listed in the 3 culumns of table.
So far, I tend to consider Russell's data, that stem from recent compilation
of various data bases, as the most reliable. However, this list is for sure
not definite and probably many errors subsist in each comumn, as perhaps
some of the official institutes did not report recent updatings.
My next task will be then to contact each of the institutes, universities or
museums individually.
A heavy but stimulating task. Any help from any of you is always warmly welcome!
Thank you very much and have a great day (or night)
Zelimir
Preliminary listing of the Ensisheim meteorite weights from private
collections of some list members, as compiled by Zelimir Gabelica (France).
(updated December 9, 2002, 18:00 GMT)
Honolulu, Joseph Murakami coll. 45g
Waldkirch, Renate Michael Buckler coll. 16.1g
Oleye , Zelimir Gabelica coll. 15.82g
City?, Rob Wezel coll. 12.82
NEMS sales stock about 9g
City?, Fred Olsen coll.(15 pieces) 6.850g
City ?, Peter Scherff (2 pieces 5.25g
Chicago, Steve Arnold coll. 3.7g
City ?, Mauro Ianeselli 3.2g
City ?, Eric Olson coll. 2.05g
City ?, David Hardy coll. 1.8g
Tessera, Matteo Chinellato coll. 1.56g
City?, Thomas Webb coll. 1.3885g
City?, Charlie Devine coll. 1.346g
City?, Steven Drummond coll. 1.342g
Linger, Guy Heinen coll. 0.85g
Helsinki, Frederick Janik coll. 0.3g
City?, Julien Courtois coll. 0.22g
Evansville (?), Rhett Bourland coll. 0.05g
--
**
Prof. Zelimir Gabelica
Groupe Sécurité et Ecologie Chimiques (GSEC) - ENSCMu
3, rue A. Werner
F-68093 MULHOUSE Cedex, FRANCE
Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94
FAX: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15
e-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
**
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[meteorite-list] Ensisheim TKW
Hi Anne, Joseph, Charlie, Eric, Steven, Julien, Thomas, Russ and list, I wrote a similar message a few days ago but it appears (at least to me) that it was not dispatched. I am trying again today but with much more updates. Many thanks to all of you who started to report the amount of Ensisheim meteorite that is resting in your collections. I especially appreciate when you tell me the source. The fact that, for example, Eric's piece comes from the Vatican collection and was before in that of the Marquis de Mauroy, is a nice story and a very interesting filliation. Knowing the former owners could perhaps soon result in a huge cobweb but this could also possibly help me in resolving many cross cuts and try to perhaps build one day a 510 years old family tree of the metorite. Nothing to loose to try. I was also impressed by the weight of the part slice owned by Joseph Murakami. 45 grams would put him close to the top of the hit parade of the meteorite lucky owners (excluding perhaps official museums that are by no means far on top). But so far, as the compilation of even tiny fragments can proove significant for the big total, may I suggest Joseph weighs his slice more accurately as every further fraction of gram is significant for us (and for him good to know). The milligrams of Charlie's or Steve's pieces mentioned for their accurately weighed pieces are significant to us as well and so is the 0.22 g fragment reported by Julien. Small gulches make big rivers. I also had in mind compiling the weights of Ensisheim meteorites owned by some official institutions and I'd appreciate curtators of these institutes or owners of the related private collections bring me their weights, corrections and/or additions. I was ready to start the official contacts but, in the meantime, Russ Kempton provided me with an invaluable list of repositories and private collection weights coming from his database. I am very grateful to him, as his list is a compilation of several data bases, probably recently updated. As many official data, it reflects only reported weights. At that stage, it is perhaps interesting to compare his data with those officially published in two other serious references, namely: 1) the BM. Catalog (M. Grady, Ed. 2000) and 2) our own Red Book archiving the History of Ensisheim (ENSISHEIM, Son Histoire à travers les Pierres, edited by the Confrérie St Georges des Gardiens de la Météorite d'Ensisheim, Sept. 1993, 133 pp, Table p 25 (World Distribution of the Ensisheim Meteorite Fragments, as compiled by J. Schmutzer, Hamburg, Gremany), data that are probably fragmentary and that need updating. Here is the result of my preliminary comparison of these 3 series of data: Place NEMSBM Catalog Red Book Ensisheim, Musée de la Régence 54.51 kg55.75kg 55.75kg Paris, Mus. d'Hist. Nat10.2 kg 9.79 kg 9.79kg London; Nat. Hist. Mus. 911g 911.2g 689g (!) Berlin, Mus. Naturk., Humboldt Univ. 906g 905g 905g Vienna, Naturhist. Mus. 660g 588g (!) 660g Washington, U.S. Nat. Mus. 235g258g (!) 458g (!!) Tübingen, Min.-Petrogr. Inst. 220g 316g (!) 316g (!) Uppsala Univ. Mus.- - 210g (?) Malta, Montana, Marlin Cilz Colln. - - 504g (?) Tempe, Arizona State Univ.155g 209g (!) 209.5g (!) Brussels, Inst. Roy. Sci. Mus. 191g- 191.4g Zürich, ETH 189g - - Modena, Min. Inst. Univ.177g - 177g Tucson, Haag Colln. 176g -176g Cambridge, Univ.(GB)133g - 147g Chicago, Field Mus. Nat. Hist. 115g 109g 110g New York, Amer. Mus. Nat. Hist. 112g 111g 127g Göttingen, Min. Inst. Univ. 111g - 158.6g (!) Karlsruhe Univ. - -142.0g (?) Stockholm, Naturhist. Riksmus. 80g - 51.0g (!) Troyes, Mus. d'Hist. Nat. 79.1- 82.0g (!) Calcutta, Mus. Geol. Surv. India77g 77g 76.9g Copenhagen, Univ. Geol. Mus. 77g - 77.0g Rome, Vatican Observatory Colln. 77g76g 77g Basel, Naturhist. Mus.
Re: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim TKW
Hello all This is my 2 pieces in my collection of Ensisheim...many nice the 0.46 piece http://it.geocities.com/meteoriti2000/ENSISHEIMGR.1.1.JPG http://it.geocities.com/meteoriti20002/Ensisheimgr.0.46.JPG Regards Matteo --- Zelimir Gabelica [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Anne, Joseph, Charlie, Eric, Steven, Julien, Thomas, Russ and list, Helo I wrote a similar message a few days ago but it appears (at least to me) that it was not dispatched. I am trying again today but with much more updates. Many thanks to all of you who started to report the amount of Ensisheim meteorite that is resting in your collections. I especially appreciate when you tell me the source. The fact that, for example, Eric's piece comes from the Vatican collection and was before in that of the Marquis de Mauroy, is a nice story and a very interesting filliation. Knowing the former owners could perhaps soon result in a huge cobweb but this could also possibly help me in resolving many cross cuts and try to perhaps build one day a 510 years old family tree of the metorite. Nothing to loose to try. I was also impressed by the weight of the part slice owned by Joseph Murakami. 45 grams would put him close to the top of the hit parade of the meteorite lucky owners (excluding perhaps official museums that are by no means far on top). But so far, as the compilation of even tiny fragments can proove significant for the big total, may I suggest Joseph weighs his slice more accurately as every further fraction of gram is significant for us (and for him good to know). The milligrams of Charlie's or Steve's pieces mentioned for their accurately weighed pieces are significant to us as well and so is the 0.22 g fragment reported by Julien. Small gulches make big rivers. I also had in mind compiling the weights of Ensisheim meteorites owned by some official institutions and I'd appreciate curtators of these institutes or owners of the related private collections bring me their weights, corrections and/or additions. I was ready to start the official contacts but, in the meantime, Russ Kempton provided me with an invaluable list of repositories and private collection weights coming from his database. I am very grateful to him, as his list is a compilation of several data bases, probably recently updated. As many official data, it reflects only reported weights. At that stage, it is perhaps interesting to compare his data with those officially published in two other serious references, namely: 1) the BM. Catalog (M. Grady, Ed. 2000) and 2) our own Red Book archiving the History of Ensisheim (ENSISHEIM, Son Histoire à travers les Pierres, edited by the Confrérie St Georges des Gardiens de la Météorite d'Ensisheim, Sept. 1993, 133 pp, Table p 25 (World Distribution of the Ensisheim Meteorite Fragments, as compiled by J. Schmutzer, Hamburg, Gremany), data that are probably fragmentary and that need updating. Here is the result of my preliminary comparison of these 3 series of data: Place NEMSBM Catalog Red Book Ensisheim, Musée de la Régence 54.51 kg 55.75kg 55.75kg Paris, Mus. d'Hist. Nat10.2 kg 9.79 kg 9.79kg London; Nat. Hist. Mus. 911g 911.2g 689g (!) Berlin, Mus. Naturk., Humboldt Univ. 906g 905g 905g Vienna, Naturhist. Mus. 660g 588g (!) 660g Washington, U.S. Nat. Mus. 235g 258g (!) 458g (!!) Tübingen, Min.-Petrogr. Inst. 220g 316g (!) 316g (!) Uppsala Univ. Mus.- - 210g (?) Malta, Montana, Marlin Cilz Colln. - - 504g (?) Tempe, Arizona State Univ.155g 209g (!) 209.5g (!) Brussels, Inst. Roy. Sci. Mus. 191g - 191.4g Zürich, ETH 189g - - Modena, Min. Inst. Univ.177g - 177g Tucson, Haag Colln. 176g -176g Cambridge, Univ.(GB)133g - 147g Chicago, Field Mus. Nat. Hist. 115g 109g 110g New York, Amer. Mus. Nat. Hist. 112g 111g 127g Göttingen, Min. Inst. Univ. 111g - 158.6g (!) Karlsruhe Univ. - -142.0g (?) Stockholm, Naturhist.
[meteorite-list] ensisheim tkw provenance
there seems to be W-A-A-A-Y to much ensisheim out there for sale on websites based on the tkw AND the amount that actually got pilfered off the thing shortly after arrival (which had to be actually curated and held on to for 508 years if my math is correct, for you to get your lovely little micro from a website w/ paypal). ever see "the red violin"? well, the same kinda thing would have to happen for you to get your slice IF your slice is infact, true ensisheim and not some other skyrock that looks like it visually and geochemically. why would peasant- class people even consider preserving a skyock? what are the odds of it making it all the way to websites from 1492? a legit purchase of this rock would demand EXCELLENT provenance. would some please elaborate on this provenance established and how these cute little slices of an otherwise ordinary chondrite make it to websites, shows, and ultimately into livingrooms via a VERY phat ride on the wallet express. most wallets that tote this skyrock were big, phat lazy, channel- surfing , potato chip-chomping, couch commanders but after toting even a small slice of ens. those wallets were reduced to lean and mean, fit'n'trim builds similar to the builds of usmc drill instructor. w/ that kind of weight , you'd think the stuff was a neutron star. nosey noses wanna know.MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] ensisheim tkw provenance
is this a joke Harlan? Mike - Original Message - From: harlan trammell To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2002 12:56 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] ensisheim tkw provenance there seems to be W-A-A-A-Y to much ensisheim out there for sale on websites based on the tkw AND the amount that actually got pilfered off the thing shortly after arrival (which had to be actually curated and held on to for 508 years if my math is correct, for you to get your lovely little micro from a website w/ paypal). ever see "the red violin"? well, the same kinda thing would have to happen for you to get your slice IF your slice is infact, true ensisheim and not some other skyrock that looks like it visually and geochemically. why would peasant- class people even consider preserving a skyock? what are the odds of it making it all the way to websites from 1492? a legit purchase of this rock would demand EXCELLENT provenance. would some please elaborate on this provenance established and how these cute little slices of an otherwise ordinary chondrite make it to websites, shows, and ultimately into livingrooms via a VERY phat ride on the wallet express. most wallets that tote this skyrock were big, phat lazy, channel- surfing , potato chip-chomping, couch commanders but after toting even a small slice of ens. those wallets were reduced to lean and mean, fit'n'trim builds similar to the builds of usmc drill instructor. w/ that kind of weight , you'd think the stuff was a neutron star. nosey noses wanna know. MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. __ Meteorite-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
