Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites(especiallyirons)
Hi Yinan First you need to realize that the heavier the elements the less abundant they are due to the stellar processes that form them. Once you get to the heavies, everything is in ppm and there are no selective element gold smelting operations that anyone has come up with in the generally violent yet docile forming solar system. There are variations of course, but within those variations there are practicval limits and generally Earth is the King of differential geological processes as the largest terrestrial planet, so we are unique. Now, we are talking of a factor of 1000 times; you will need an awsome concentrating mechanism for that ... which obviosuly doesn't exist except in fantasy as far as we chemists can tell. Raising gold concentrations while keeping all the other trace metals withing the normal parametersis completely illogical and therein lies the key to answering you. I mean, when you can find me a mountain range made of solid gold on earth, I'll take the idea more seriously ;-) Then we can explain how a mountain range of solid gold spontaneously formed and that would open the doors to even more golden age science fiction. Tahks Sterling for the links to my Dad's old favorite story, I still have his original pulp magazine here of The Girl from the Golden Atom, and a surprise in the yellowed pages in the letters to the editor - my Dad's having something to say about the stories he was being fed. Genetics trump environment! I posted something else here which was intended to clinch the gold situation, but it hasn't gone through. I will try reposting, so sorry if you get it twice. Kindest wishes SDoug -Original Message- From: Yinan Wang veom...@gmail.com To: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com Cc: meteoritemike meteoritem...@gmail.com; Meteorite-list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, Oct 4, 2011 1:25 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites(especiallyirons) But Doug, Who says the solar system is uniform and that this iron can't have a higher than average gold content? On Earth you certainly have ore bodies that have significantly high gold content (although much less than this meteorite) and then you have areas with no gold at all. Why can't this iron be from a source that just happened to have a higher than usual gold content? Btw, anyone got a sample of this stuff around? -Yinan On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 12:31 AM, MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com wrote: Hi Mike, Stuart and fellow astrochemisticists, The Bulletin is not a peer reviewed place, it is just the world being held on a few Atlas' shoulders who are nice enough to slave over it and an occasional inaccuracy could happen. Perhaps it was an issue of optical character recognition since mu, the prefix for micro (as in micrograms) looks a lot like an m, if you put your astronomer's cap on you'd suspect that the simple explanation it is just a run of the mill typo that will now be corrected. But ... since we haven't analyzed this meteorite, we can't be sure. For my argument that it is hogwash that this meteorite would have all that gold (so, the bigger picture is, that don't spread the idea that there are up to 48 grams of gold in a 32 Kg chunk of iron meteorite or folks will forget where it came from and the next thing we know the newspapers will be proclaiming that meteorites are loaded with gold). OK my argument, referencing Anders Ebihara, 1982, yes the same Anders that (karmaca) Martin kindly contacted not too long ago who invented the term poor man's space probe for meteorites, showed that in the Solar system there is nearly one hundred-million times more iron than gold in the elemental abundances in the Solar System. Well, if an iron meteorite has in round numbers, 900 mg/g of iron (90%), then moving the decimal over 7 zeros, we get 0.09 mg Au/g, which is 0.009 mg/g which is 9 ug/g. Granted, 9 is off by a factor of 6x more than is reported for the meteorite but at least we are not a factor of nearly 200 off (1500 ug/g = 1.5 mg/g). That's all I can say, based on a nice guy's work from 1982... but I'm less peer reviewed than the Bulletin so we need someone who is closer to the analysis. Or, perhaps go through a bunch of irons with published analyses and just see if anything is over say, 10 ug/g, in which case that would make a far more interesting story than a footnote to an analysis on what star made all that gold and why. Was it the home star of Girl from the Golden Atom? Did their society get obliterated? Did the incredible shrinking ray malfunction when reforming their marriage ring? And what of our adventurous and debonair young and gifted chemist? Stay tuned till next time ;-) Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com Cc: Meteorite-list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent
Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites(especiallyirons)
Mike referenced NWA 6932 (with the possible ug/g vs. mg/g issue): 4.12 μg/g Ir, and 1.49 mg/g Au ... ... no ungrouped iron has a Au content within 20% and only Guin and Laurens County have Ir contents within 20% ... Wasson also analyzed the tiny, weathered ungrouped iron Lewis Cliff 85369 (LEW 85369), TKW = 6.3 g; Antarctica, and determined: Iriduim 3.49 ug/g Gold 1.49 ug/g The Iridium is within 20% and the gold would seem to match exactly assumping this is not the golden iron as discussed*, so that comment also in the write-up would be interesting to follow-up upon. That, however, doesn't mean that these two distally spaced meteorites are a match since the Gallium differs by a factor of nearly two. Reference: http://www.sciencemag.org/content/249/4971/900.full.pdf Kindest wishes Doug *and if it were ...wow, what a marketing plug it will have -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com Cc: Meteorite-list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Mon, Oct 3, 2011 11:00 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites(especiallyirons) Hi Doug and List, It sounded awfully high to me also, but what do I know? LOL Quoted below is the text from the write-up. Notice, the gold content is the only element listed in milligrams. Here is the text from the Met Bull write-up : Northwest Africa 6932 (NWA 6932) (Northwest Africa) Found: 2008 Classification: Iron meteorite (ungrouped) History: Reportedly found in the Algerian Desert Petrography: Plessitic octahedrite with isolated (5% of area) sparks and spindles of kamacite; longest bands are ~8 mm long and 0.2 mm wide. The material may be reheated; the fine plessite has a granular appearance and there are small dark ellipses that may reflect resorption of phosphide. No heat altered rim was recognized. Stucture Opl. Geochemistry: Composition: 4.51 mg/g Co, 69.8 mg/g Ni, 82.4 μg/g Ga, 380 μg/g Ge, 12.0 μg/g As, 4.12 μg/g Ir, and 1.49 mg/g Au. The meteorite has no close compositional relatives. For example, in the Co range from 6.2 to 7.5 mg/g, no ungrouped iron has a Au content within 20% and only Guin and Laurens County have Ir contents within 20% of that in this iron, but these irons differ in several other compositional respects. Specimens: Several additional masses are known. Best regards, MikeG PS - I am having internet connectivity issues and my connection is running about as well as a 500-pound man right now. So I think I will sign off until tomorrow morning and hopefully it improves then. LOL -- - Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber (Michael Gilmer) Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 - c On 10/3/11, MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com wrote: No way Mike, that there are 48 grams of gold in that 32 Kg hunk of tkw. ... Unless this is such an anomoly that comes from the Star of the Woman of the Golden Atom, I think none of this makes any sense and that the units are micrograms per gram ( μg/g ), and if that is the case there is not 48 grams of gold in them thar TKW, haha, more like a total of 0.03 grams in the whole 32 Kg mass to go refining. And if you read it somewhere, there is the possibility that the reference is wrong. Was the article peer reviewed? (my comment isn't ;-)) Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Cc: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Mon, Oct 3, 2011 9:45 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites(especiallyirons) Hi Gang, I was just curious about exactly how much gold is bound up inside a meteorite with a higher than average content, like the one in this example. Personally, I share the same sentiment as most of you - it would be heresy to destroy a meteorite to extract something that is available here on Earth, even if it wasn't cost-prohibitive. At 41 years old, I have made it this far in life with terrible math skills, so this old dog isn't going to take any refresher courses. I was hoping one of the more skilled (and intelligent) members would act as a human calculator and cipher this question for me. :) So in this particular case, the 32kg iron meteorite contains ~1.5 troy ounces of gold, with a current market value of ~$2550. What sparked my curiosity was the apparently high gold content that was measured in milligrams and not the usual micrograms one expects to see. One last question, perhaps rhetorical in a sense, has anyone ever seen gold in a meteorite? I mean
Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites(especiallyirons)
I have not seen visible gold in meteorites but I have seen them with copper in them that is visible and more recently, something more exciting. More to come on this soon. Hope everyone is doing good! Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, October 3, 2011 9:45 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites(especiallyirons) Hi Gang, I was just curious about exactly how much gold is bound up inside a meteorite with a higher than average content, like the one in this example. Personally, I share the same sentiment as most of you - it would be heresy to destroy a meteorite to extract something that is available here on Earth, even if it wasn't cost-prohibitive. At 41 years old, I have made it this far in life with terrible math skills, so this old dog isn't going to take any refresher courses. I was hoping one of the more skilled (and intelligent) members would act as a human calculator and cipher this question for me. :) So in this particular case, the 32kg iron meteorite contains ~1.5 troy ounces of gold, with a current market value of ~$2550. What sparked my curiosity was the apparently high gold content that was measured in milligrams and not the usual micrograms one expects to see. One last question, perhaps rhetorical in a sense, has anyone ever seen gold in a meteorite? I mean, has there ever been a visible bleb or gold inclusion in a meteorite? Or is all of the gold bound up on a molecular level and invisible to the naked eye and 10x loupe? I guess there won't be a gold rush to the asteroid belt Best regards, MikeG -- - Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber (Michael Gilmer) Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 - On 10/3/11, Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net wrote: 1.49 mg per gram is one part in 671. 1/671 of 32 kg is 47.7 grams of gold. There are 31 grams per troy ounce; gold is priced in troy ounces; there are 1.537 troy ounces oif gold in that 32 kg, or $2551.94 at today's (10/03/11) price. Cost you more than that to extract it... Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: Stuart McDaniel actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com To: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites(especiallyirons) Oops, I was wrong.It would be 32,000gr / 1.49mg = 21475 mg 21,475/1000 = 21.475 gr Right, anyone?? Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC Secr., Cleve. Co. Astronomical Society IMCA #9052 Member - KCA, KBCA, CDUSA -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 8:33 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites (especiallyirons) Hi List, In perusing through the latest additions to the Met Bulletin today, I was reading the compositional data for NWA 6932 (iron, ungrouped). I noticed that the gold (Au) content was listed at 1.49mg/g. Is this sort of data as straight-forward as it appears, or is there more to it that this layman is missing? In other words, how much gold is in this meteorite? The TKW of this meteorite is 32kg. So, with 1000g in a kilo, and 1000mg in a gram, how much gold is in this celestial hunk of iron? (my math is horrible) Second question, what is highest known gold content in a meteorite and what meteorite is it? Third question, some meteorites also have high iridium content. What is the highest known iridium content in a meteorite? I am not suggesting in any way that meteorites should be refined or melted down to extract their precious metals content, but given the high value of metals such as gold and iridium, has any profiteer tried such an endeavour? Or would the process be too complex and expensive? Best regards, MikeG - Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber (Michael Gilmer) Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia
Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites(especiallyirons)
Hello Doug, All, We're looking at an iron meteorite, which is a piece of material in which predominantly heavy elements have been sorted and accumulated through processes that took place over billions of years. Saying that gold is uncommon in the solar system doesn't mean much; we know that differentiation has created meteorites with upwards of 50% Ni, so anomalous concentrations of various heavy elements don't strike me as strange at all. NWA 859 (Taza) is a perfect example with an average of ~2200 ppm Ge (observed range of 1500-5000 ppm). One might as well state that it is unlikely for iron meteorites to exist at all because hydrogen and helium make up such a large portion of the mass in the universe/solar system: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abundance_of_the_chemical_elements#Abundance_of_elements_in_the_Universe I'd prefer to trust the basic analytical work of one of the world's foremost experts on iron meteorites in this case. Of course, errors do make it into the bulletin with some regularity, often due to human error when the data is being transferred. If in doubt, contact the folks who manage the bulletin. Regards, Jason On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 9:31 PM, MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com wrote: Hi Mike, Stuart and fellow astrochemisticists, The Bulletin is not a peer reviewed place, it is just the world being held on a few Atlas' shoulders who are nice enough to slave over it and an occasional inaccuracy could happen. Perhaps it was an issue of optical character recognition since mu, the prefix for micro (as in micrograms) looks a lot like an m, if you put your astronomer's cap on you'd suspect that the simple explanation it is just a run of the mill typo that will now be corrected. But ... since we haven't analyzed this meteorite, we can't be sure. For my argument that it is hogwash that this meteorite would have all that gold (so, the bigger picture is, that don't spread the idea that there are up to 48 grams of gold in a 32 Kg chunk of iron meteorite or folks will forget where it came from and the next thing we know the newspapers will be proclaiming that meteorites are loaded with gold). OK my argument, referencing Anders Ebihara, 1982, yes the same Anders that (karmaca) Martin kindly contacted not too long ago who invented the term poor man's space probe for meteorites, showed that in the Solar system there is nearly one hundred-million times more iron than gold in the elemental abundances in the Solar System. Well, if an iron meteorite has in round numbers, 900 mg/g of iron (90%), then moving the decimal over 7 zeros, we get 0.09 mg Au/g, which is 0.009 mg/g which is 9 ug/g. Granted, 9 is off by a factor of 6x more than is reported for the meteorite but at least we are not a factor of nearly 200 off (1500 ug/g = 1.5 mg/g). That's all I can say, based on a nice guy's work from 1982... but I'm less peer reviewed than the Bulletin so we need someone who is closer to the analysis. Or, perhaps go through a bunch of irons with published analyses and just see if anything is over say, 10 ug/g, in which case that would make a far more interesting story than a footnote to an analysis on what star made all that gold and why. Was it the home star of Girl from the Golden Atom? Did their society get obliterated? Did the incredible shrinking ray malfunction when reforming their marriage ring? And what of our adventurous and debonair young and gifted chemist? Stay tuned till next time ;-) Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com Cc: Meteorite-list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Mon, Oct 3, 2011 11:00 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites(especiallyirons) Hi Doug and List, It sounded awfully high to me also, but what do I know? LOL Quoted below is the text from the write-up. Notice, the gold content is the only element listed in milligrams. Here is the text from the Met Bull write-up : Northwest Africa 6932 (NWA 6932) (Northwest Africa) Found: 2008 Classification: Iron meteorite (ungrouped) History: Reportedly found in the Algerian Desert Petrography: Plessitic octahedrite with isolated (5% of area) sparks and spindles of kamacite; longest bands are ~8 mm long and 0.2 mm wide. The material may be reheated; the fine plessite has a granular appearance and there are small dark ellipses that may reflect resorption of phosphide. No heat altered rim was recognized. Stucture Opl. Geochemistry: Composition: 4.51 mg/g Co, 69.8 mg/g Ni, 82.4 μg/g Ga, 380 μg/g Ge, 12.0 μg/g As, 4.12 μg/g Ir, and 1.49 mg/g Au. The meteorite has no close compositional relatives. For example, in the Co range from 6.2 to 7.5 mg/g, no ungrouped iron has a Au content within 20% and only Guin and Laurens County have Ir contents within 20% of that in this iron, but these irons differ in several other compositional
Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites(especiallyirons)
Hi Jason No, your example is so far from perfect, that you are comparing apples as oranges. but I do think you could find some data a little better somewhere to fit your argument if you try hard enough. Your Nickel and Iron example also is bad: 50% Nickel vs. a common 7% nickel is a factor of only 7 and quite believable - and see? For a measley fact of 7 you are citing it as a huge range. That alone should place you in my camp, so take a risk and agree or make a stand ... either way it is more interesting to argue with a champion (of a point of vie, which may well be all bollocks). We are talking about a factor of 1000 here. ...and: Check your periodic chart. Germanium is definitely much more closeluy related to Silicon and Carbon, and not the heavy elements (Atomic number 60 or so). Isolating heavy elements can be quite difficult. So, it may well be this characteristic that causes the seven fold range. Still, not 1000 fold. As for the unlikelyhood of iron meteorites existing by analogy, the fallacy of that observation is the nature of the elements. Hydrogen and helium don't usually make alloys and are nort particulary miscilbe with irons. If you put heavy metals in a centifuge they don't separate, though as they cool they can create crystal structures as we know. So unless there was a worldlet formed that perhaps along the octahedral crystal lattice lines squeezed all the gold out and left the Iridium (as one example) in, and then the concentrated gold solution dripped into this particular parent ... Additionally Iron is a well known anomoly of high abundance due to special super nova considerations I suppose ..,. and for that reason is famous. To suggest a 1000-fold increase in gold is possible, sure anything is possible and the particular meteorite in question then would be of enormous significance. You'd think we'd have heard something about the special golden meteorite by now with 1000 times the amount of gold of other gold bearing meteorites. No need to heap praises on Dr. Wasson foremost world expert stuff when mere mortals are just trying to have some fun and utilize their atrophying brains. I'm sure John hasn't made an analytical mistake, who would dare to suggest that?! If you would like to follow up with him or the folks at the Bulletin I think that's a great idea. I don't have any reasonable doubt, though. The thread started as Mike wondering about gold content of irons. and my particular focus was to have a little fun discussing gold in meteorites for anyone interested and it was great to provoke thought. It would be nioce if John would pass his lecture notes alsong to the lsit on the subject of trace metal separation in meteorites and the meaning of it in terms of classification tools. But then it wouldn't be much fun and I'd be better off just tryijg to audit one of his classes. If this particular meteorite is so exceptional, I'm sure someone will speak up and tell us about it. Is it Darryl's meteorite? He'd be the first I'd ask. Honestly, I just tried to look up who's it was now, but I don't really know. Now on to surviving the day Kindest wishes Do -Original Message- From: Jason Utas meteorite...@gmail.com To: Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tue, Oct 4, 2011 12:55 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites(especiallyirons) Hello Doug, All, We're looking at an iron meteorite, which is a piece of material in which predominantly heavy elements have been sorted and accumulated through processes that took place over billions of years. Saying that gold is uncommon in the solar system doesn't mean much; we know that differentiation has created meteorites with upwards of 50% Ni, so anomalous concentrations of various heavy elements don't strike me as strange at all. NWA 859 (Taza) is a perfect example with an average of ~2200 ppm Ge (observed range of 1500-5000 ppm). One might as well state that it is unlikely for iron meteorites to exist at all because hydrogen and helium make up such a large portion of the mass in the universe/solar system: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abundance_of_the_chemical_elements#Abundance_of_elements_in_the_Universe I'd prefer to trust the basic analytical work of one of the world's foremost experts on iron meteorites in this case. Of course, errors do make it into the bulletin with some regularity, often due to human error when the data is being transferred. If in doubt, contact the folks who manage the bulletin. Regards, Jason On Mon, Oct 3, 2011 at 9:31 PM, MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com wrote: Hi Mike, Stuart and fellow astrochemisticists, The Bulletin is not a peer reviewed place, it is just the world being held on a few Atlas' shoulders who are nice enough to slave over it and an occasional inaccuracy could happen. Perhaps it was an issue of optical character recognition since mu, the prefix for micro
Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites (especiallyirons)
Oops, I was wrong.It would be 32,000gr / 1.49mg = 21475 mg 21,475/1000 = 21.475 gr Right, anyone?? Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC Secr., Cleve. Co. Astronomical Society IMCA #9052 Member - KCA, KBCA, CDUSA -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 8:33 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites (especiallyirons) Hi List, In perusing through the latest additions to the Met Bulletin today, I was reading the compositional data for NWA 6932 (iron, ungrouped). I noticed that the gold (Au) content was listed at 1.49mg/g. Is this sort of data as straight-forward as it appears, or is there more to it that this layman is missing? In other words, how much gold is in this meteorite? The TKW of this meteorite is 32kg. So, with 1000g in a kilo, and 1000mg in a gram, how much gold is in this celestial hunk of iron? (my math is horrible) Second question, what is highest known gold content in a meteorite and what meteorite is it? Third question, some meteorites also have high iridium content. What is the highest known iridium content in a meteorite? I am not suggesting in any way that meteorites should be refined or melted down to extract their precious metals content, but given the high value of metals such as gold and iridium, has any profiteer tried such an endeavour? Or would the process be too complex and expensive? Best regards, MikeG - Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber (Michael Gilmer) Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 - __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites(especiallyirons)
1.49 mg per gram is one part in 671. 1/671 of 32 kg is 47.7 grams of gold. There are 31 grams per troy ounce; gold is priced in troy ounces; there are 1.537 troy ounces oif gold in that 32 kg, or $2551.94 at today's (10/03/11) price. Cost you more than that to extract it... Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: Stuart McDaniel actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com To: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites(especiallyirons) Oops, I was wrong.It would be 32,000gr / 1.49mg = 21475 mg 21,475/1000 = 21.475 gr Right, anyone?? Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC Secr., Cleve. Co. Astronomical Society IMCA #9052 Member - KCA, KBCA, CDUSA -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 8:33 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites (especiallyirons) Hi List, In perusing through the latest additions to the Met Bulletin today, I was reading the compositional data for NWA 6932 (iron, ungrouped). I noticed that the gold (Au) content was listed at 1.49mg/g. Is this sort of data as straight-forward as it appears, or is there more to it that this layman is missing? In other words, how much gold is in this meteorite? The TKW of this meteorite is 32kg. So, with 1000g in a kilo, and 1000mg in a gram, how much gold is in this celestial hunk of iron? (my math is horrible) Second question, what is highest known gold content in a meteorite and what meteorite is it? Third question, some meteorites also have high iridium content. What is the highest known iridium content in a meteorite? I am not suggesting in any way that meteorites should be refined or melted down to extract their precious metals content, but given the high value of metals such as gold and iridium, has any profiteer tried such an endeavour? Or would the process be too complex and expensive? Best regards, MikeG - Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber (Michael Gilmer) Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 - __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites(especiallyirons)
OK, I was right the first time...guess my math ain't that good either! LOL. Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC Secr., Cleve. Co. Astronomical Society IMCA #9052 Member - KCA, KBCA, CDUSA -Original Message- From: Sterling K. Webb Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 9:26 PM To: Stuart McDaniel ; Michael Gilmer ; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites(especiallyirons) 1.49 mg per gram is one part in 671. 1/671 of 32 kg is 47.7 grams of gold. There are 31 grams per troy ounce; gold is priced in troy ounces; there are 1.537 troy ounces oif gold in that 32 kg, or $2551.94 at today's (10/03/11) price. Cost you more than that to extract it... Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: Stuart McDaniel actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com To: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites(especiallyirons) Oops, I was wrong.It would be 32,000gr / 1.49mg = 21475 mg 21,475/1000 = 21.475 gr Right, anyone?? Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC Secr., Cleve. Co. Astronomical Society IMCA #9052 Member - KCA, KBCA, CDUSA -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 8:33 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites (especiallyirons) Hi List, In perusing through the latest additions to the Met Bulletin today, I was reading the compositional data for NWA 6932 (iron, ungrouped). I noticed that the gold (Au) content was listed at 1.49mg/g. Is this sort of data as straight-forward as it appears, or is there more to it that this layman is missing? In other words, how much gold is in this meteorite? The TKW of this meteorite is 32kg. So, with 1000g in a kilo, and 1000mg in a gram, how much gold is in this celestial hunk of iron? (my math is horrible) Second question, what is highest known gold content in a meteorite and what meteorite is it? Third question, some meteorites also have high iridium content. What is the highest known iridium content in a meteorite? I am not suggesting in any way that meteorites should be refined or melted down to extract their precious metals content, but given the high value of metals such as gold and iridium, has any profiteer tried such an endeavour? Or would the process be too complex and expensive? Best regards, MikeG - Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber (Michael Gilmer) Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 - __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites(especiallyirons)
Hi Gang, I was just curious about exactly how much gold is bound up inside a meteorite with a higher than average content, like the one in this example. Personally, I share the same sentiment as most of you - it would be heresy to destroy a meteorite to extract something that is available here on Earth, even if it wasn't cost-prohibitive. At 41 years old, I have made it this far in life with terrible math skills, so this old dog isn't going to take any refresher courses. I was hoping one of the more skilled (and intelligent) members would act as a human calculator and cipher this question for me. :) So in this particular case, the 32kg iron meteorite contains ~1.5 troy ounces of gold, with a current market value of ~$2550. What sparked my curiosity was the apparently high gold content that was measured in milligrams and not the usual micrograms one expects to see. One last question, perhaps rhetorical in a sense, has anyone ever seen gold in a meteorite? I mean, has there ever been a visible bleb or gold inclusion in a meteorite? Or is all of the gold bound up on a molecular level and invisible to the naked eye and 10x loupe? I guess there won't be a gold rush to the asteroid belt Best regards, MikeG -- - Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber (Michael Gilmer) Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 - On 10/3/11, Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net wrote: 1.49 mg per gram is one part in 671. 1/671 of 32 kg is 47.7 grams of gold. There are 31 grams per troy ounce; gold is priced in troy ounces; there are 1.537 troy ounces oif gold in that 32 kg, or $2551.94 at today's (10/03/11) price. Cost you more than that to extract it... Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: Stuart McDaniel actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com To: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites(especiallyirons) Oops, I was wrong.It would be 32,000gr / 1.49mg = 21475 mg 21,475/1000 = 21.475 gr Right, anyone?? Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC Secr., Cleve. Co. Astronomical Society IMCA #9052 Member - KCA, KBCA, CDUSA -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 8:33 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites (especiallyirons) Hi List, In perusing through the latest additions to the Met Bulletin today, I was reading the compositional data for NWA 6932 (iron, ungrouped). I noticed that the gold (Au) content was listed at 1.49mg/g. Is this sort of data as straight-forward as it appears, or is there more to it that this layman is missing? In other words, how much gold is in this meteorite? The TKW of this meteorite is 32kg. So, with 1000g in a kilo, and 1000mg in a gram, how much gold is in this celestial hunk of iron? (my math is horrible) Second question, what is highest known gold content in a meteorite and what meteorite is it? Third question, some meteorites also have high iridium content. What is the highest known iridium content in a meteorite? I am not suggesting in any way that meteorites should be refined or melted down to extract their precious metals content, but given the high value of metals such as gold and iridium, has any profiteer tried such an endeavour? Or would the process be too complex and expensive? Best regards, MikeG - Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber (Michael Gilmer) Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 - __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites (especiallyirons)
I believe that would be 47.68 grams. Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC Secr., Cleve. Co. Astronomical Society IMCA #9052 Member - KCA, KBCA, CDUSA -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 8:33 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites (especiallyirons) Hi List, In perusing through the latest additions to the Met Bulletin today, I was reading the compositional data for NWA 6932 (iron, ungrouped). I noticed that the gold (Au) content was listed at 1.49mg/g. Is this sort of data as straight-forward as it appears, or is there more to it that this layman is missing? In other words, how much gold is in this meteorite? The TKW of this meteorite is 32kg. So, with 1000g in a kilo, and 1000mg in a gram, how much gold is in this celestial hunk of iron? (my math is horrible) Second question, what is highest known gold content in a meteorite and what meteorite is it? Third question, some meteorites also have high iridium content. What is the highest known iridium content in a meteorite? I am not suggesting in any way that meteorites should be refined or melted down to extract their precious metals content, but given the high value of metals such as gold and iridium, has any profiteer tried such an endeavour? Or would the process be too complex and expensive? Best regards, MikeG - Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber (Michael Gilmer) Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 - __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites(especiallyirons)
No way Mike, that there are 48 grams of gold in that 32 Kg hunk of tkw. ... Unless this is such an anomoly that comes from the Star of the Woman of the Golden Atom, I think none of this makes any sense and that the units are micrograms per gram ( μg/g ), and if that is the case there is not 48 grams of gold in them thar TKW, haha, more like a total of 0.03 grams in the whole 32 Kg mass to go refining. And if you read it somewhere, there is the possibility that the reference is wrong. Was the article peer reviewed? (my comment isn't ;-)) Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Cc: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Mon, Oct 3, 2011 9:45 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites(especiallyirons) Hi Gang, I was just curious about exactly how much gold is bound up inside a meteorite with a higher than average content, like the one in this example. Personally, I share the same sentiment as most of you - it would be heresy to destroy a meteorite to extract something that is available here on Earth, even if it wasn't cost-prohibitive. At 41 years old, I have made it this far in life with terrible math skills, so this old dog isn't going to take any refresher courses. I was hoping one of the more skilled (and intelligent) members would act as a human calculator and cipher this question for me. :) So in this particular case, the 32kg iron meteorite contains ~1.5 troy ounces of gold, with a current market value of ~$2550. What sparked my curiosity was the apparently high gold content that was measured in milligrams and not the usual micrograms one expects to see. One last question, perhaps rhetorical in a sense, has anyone ever seen gold in a meteorite? I mean, has there ever been a visible bleb or gold inclusion in a meteorite? Or is all of the gold bound up on a molecular level and invisible to the naked eye and 10x loupe? I guess there won't be a gold rush to the asteroid belt Best regards, MikeG -- - Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber (Michael Gilmer) Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 - On 10/3/11, Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net wrote: 1.49 mg per gram is one part in 671. 1/671 of 32 kg is 47.7 grams of gold. There are 31 grams per troy ounce; gold is priced in troy ounces; there are 1.537 troy ounces oif gold in that 32 kg, or $2551.94 at today's (10/03/11) price. Cost you more than that to extract it... Sterling K. Webb - - - Original Message - From: Stuart McDaniel actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com To: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites(especiallyirons) Oops, I was wrong.It would be 32,000gr / 1.49mg = 21475 mg 21,475/1000 = 21.475 gr Right, anyone?? Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC Secr., Cleve. Co. Astronomical Society IMCA #9052 Member - KCA, KBCA, CDUSA -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 8:33 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites (especiallyirons) Hi List, In perusing through the latest additions to the Met Bulletin today, I was reading the compositional data for NWA 6932 (iron, ungrouped). I noticed that the gold (Au) content was listed at 1.49mg/g. Is this sort of data as straight-forward as it appears, or is there more to it that this layman is missing? In other words, how much gold is in this meteorite? The TKW of this meteorite is 32kg. So, with 1000g in a kilo, and 1000mg in a gram, how much gold is in this celestial hunk of iron? (my math is horrible) Second question, what is highest known gold content in a meteorite and what meteorite is it? Third question, some meteorites also have high iridium content. What is the highest known iridium content in a meteorite? I am not suggesting in any way that meteorites should be refined or melted down to extract their precious metals content, but given the high value of metals such as gold and iridium, has any profiteer tried such an endeavour? Or would the process be too complex and expensive? Best regards, MikeG - Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber (Michael Gilmer) Website - http://www.galactic
Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites(especiallyirons)
Hi Doug and List, It sounded awfully high to me also, but what do I know? LOL Quoted below is the text from the write-up. Notice, the gold content is the only element listed in milligrams. Here is the text from the Met Bull write-up : Northwest Africa 6932 (NWA 6932) (Northwest Africa) Found: 2008 Classification: Iron meteorite (ungrouped) History: Reportedly found in the Algerian Desert Petrography: Plessitic octahedrite with isolated (5% of area) sparks and spindles of kamacite; longest bands are ~8 mm long and 0.2 mm wide. The material may be reheated; the fine plessite has a granular appearance and there are small dark ellipses that may reflect resorption of phosphide. No heat altered rim was recognized. Stucture Opl. Geochemistry: Composition: 4.51 mg/g Co, 69.8 mg/g Ni, 82.4 μg/g Ga, 380 μg/g Ge, 12.0 μg/g As, 4.12 μg/g Ir, and 1.49 mg/g Au. The meteorite has no close compositional relatives. For example, in the Co range from 6.2 to 7.5 mg/g, no ungrouped iron has a Au content within 20% and only Guin and Laurens County have Ir contents within 20% of that in this iron, but these irons differ in several other compositional respects. Specimens: Several additional masses are known. Best regards, MikeG PS - I am having internet connectivity issues and my connection is running about as well as a 500-pound man right now. So I think I will sign off until tomorrow morning and hopefully it improves then. LOL -- - Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber (Michael Gilmer) Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 -c On 10/3/11, MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com wrote: No way Mike, that there are 48 grams of gold in that 32 Kg hunk of tkw. ... Unless this is such an anomoly that comes from the Star of the Woman of the Golden Atom, I think none of this makes any sense and that the units are micrograms per gram ( μg/g ), and if that is the case there is not 48 grams of gold in them thar TKW, haha, more like a total of 0.03 grams in the whole 32 Kg mass to go refining. And if you read it somewhere, there is the possibility that the reference is wrong. Was the article peer reviewed? (my comment isn't ;-)) Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Cc: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Mon, Oct 3, 2011 9:45 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites(especiallyirons) Hi Gang, I was just curious about exactly how much gold is bound up inside a meteorite with a higher than average content, like the one in this example. Personally, I share the same sentiment as most of you - it would be heresy to destroy a meteorite to extract something that is available here on Earth, even if it wasn't cost-prohibitive. At 41 years old, I have made it this far in life with terrible math skills, so this old dog isn't going to take any refresher courses. I was hoping one of the more skilled (and intelligent) members would act as a human calculator and cipher this question for me. :) So in this particular case, the 32kg iron meteorite contains ~1.5 troy ounces of gold, with a current market value of ~$2550. What sparked my curiosity was the apparently high gold content that was measured in milligrams and not the usual micrograms one expects to see. One last question, perhaps rhetorical in a sense, has anyone ever seen gold in a meteorite? I mean, has there ever been a visible bleb or gold inclusion in a meteorite? Or is all of the gold bound up on a molecular level and invisible to the naked eye and 10x loupe? I guess there won't be a gold rush to the asteroid belt Best regards, MikeG -- - Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber (Michael Gilmer) Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 - On 10/3/11, Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net wrote: 1.49 mg per gram is one part in 671. 1/671 of 32 kg is 47.7 grams of gold. There are 31 grams per troy ounce; gold is priced in troy ounces; there are 1.537 troy ounces oif gold in that 32 kg, or $2551.94 at today's (10/03/11) price. Cost you more than that to extract it... Sterling K. Webb
Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites(especiallyirons)
Curry didn't do this one did he?? LOL!! (ducks and backs away) Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC Secr., Cleve. Co. Astronomical Society IMCA #9052 Member - KCA, KBCA, CDUSA -Original Message- From: MexicoDoug Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 10:29 PM To: meteoritem...@gmail.com ; Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites(especiallyirons) No way Mike, that there are 48 grams of gold in that 32 Kg hunk of tkw. ... Unless this is such an anomoly that comes from the Star of the Woman of the Golden Atom, I think none of this makes any sense and that the units are micrograms per gram ( μg/g ), and if that is the case there is not 48 grams of gold in them thar TKW, haha, more like a total of 0.03 grams in the whole 32 Kg mass to go refining. And if you read it somewhere, there is the possibility that the reference is wrong. Was the article peer reviewed? (my comment isn't ;-)) Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Cc: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Mon, Oct 3, 2011 9:45 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites(especiallyirons) Hi Gang, I was just curious about exactly how much gold is bound up inside a meteorite with a higher than average content, like the one in this example. Personally, I share the same sentiment as most of you - it would be heresy to destroy a meteorite to extract something that is available here on Earth, even if it wasn't cost-prohibitive. At 41 years old, I have made it this far in life with terrible math skills, so this old dog isn't going to take any refresher courses. I was hoping one of the more skilled (and intelligent) members would act as a human calculator and cipher this question for me. :) So in this particular case, the 32kg iron meteorite contains ~1.5 troy ounces of gold, with a current market value of ~$2550. What sparked my curiosity was the apparently high gold content that was measured in milligrams and not the usual micrograms one expects to see. One last question, perhaps rhetorical in a sense, has anyone ever seen gold in a meteorite? I mean, has there ever been a visible bleb or gold inclusion in a meteorite? Or is all of the gold bound up on a molecular level and invisible to the naked eye and 10x loupe? I guess there won't be a gold rush to the asteroid belt Best regards, MikeG -- - Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber (Michael Gilmer) Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 - On 10/3/11, Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net wrote: 1.49 mg per gram is one part in 671. 1/671 of 32 kg is 47.7 grams of gold. There are 31 grams per troy ounce; gold is priced in troy ounces; there are 1.537 troy ounces oif gold in that 32 kg, or $2551.94 at today's (10/03/11) price. Cost you more than that to extract it... Sterling K. Webb - - - Original Message - From: Stuart McDaniel actionshoot...@carolina.rr.com To: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 7:57 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites(especiallyirons) Oops, I was wrong.It would be 32,000gr / 1.49mg = 21475 mg 21,475/1000 = 21.475 gr Right, anyone?? Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC Secr., Cleve. Co. Astronomical Society IMCA #9052 Member - KCA, KBCA, CDUSA -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 8:33 PM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites (especiallyirons) Hi List, In perusing through the latest additions to the Met Bulletin today, I was reading the compositional data for NWA 6932 (iron, ungrouped). I noticed that the gold (Au) content was listed at 1.49mg/g. Is this sort of data as straight-forward as it appears, or is there more to it that this layman is missing? In other words, how much gold is in this meteorite? The TKW of this meteorite is 32kg. So, with 1000g in a kilo, and 1000mg in a gram, how much gold is in this celestial hunk of iron? (my math is horrible) Second question, what is highest known gold content in a meteorite and what meteorite is it? Third question, some meteorites also have high iridium content. What is the highest known iridium content in a meteorite? I am not suggesting in any way that meteorites should be refined or melted down
Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites(especiallyirons)
Hi Mike, Stuart and fellow astrochemisticists, The Bulletin is not a peer reviewed place, it is just the world being held on a few Atlas' shoulders who are nice enough to slave over it and an occasional inaccuracy could happen. Perhaps it was an issue of optical character recognition since mu, the prefix for micro (as in micrograms) looks a lot like an m, if you put your astronomer's cap on you'd suspect that the simple explanation it is just a run of the mill typo that will now be corrected. But ... since we haven't analyzed this meteorite, we can't be sure. For my argument that it is hogwash that this meteorite would have all that gold (so, the bigger picture is, that don't spread the idea that there are up to 48 grams of gold in a 32 Kg chunk of iron meteorite or folks will forget where it came from and the next thing we know the newspapers will be proclaiming that meteorites are loaded with gold). OK my argument, referencing Anders Ebihara, 1982, yes the same Anders that (karmaca) Martin kindly contacted not too long ago who invented the term poor man's space probe for meteorites, showed that in the Solar system there is nearly one hundred-million times more iron than gold in the elemental abundances in the Solar System. Well, if an iron meteorite has in round numbers, 900 mg/g of iron (90%), then moving the decimal over 7 zeros, we get 0.09 mg Au/g, which is 0.009 mg/g which is 9 ug/g. Granted, 9 is off by a factor of 6x more than is reported for the meteorite but at least we are not a factor of nearly 200 off (1500 ug/g = 1.5 mg/g). That's all I can say, based on a nice guy's work from 1982... but I'm less peer reviewed than the Bulletin so we need someone who is closer to the analysis. Or, perhaps go through a bunch of irons with published analyses and just see if anything is over say, 10 ug/g, in which case that would make a far more interesting story than a footnote to an analysis on what star made all that gold and why. Was it the home star of Girl from the Golden Atom? Did their society get obliterated? Did the incredible shrinking ray malfunction when reforming their marriage ring? And what of our adventurous and debonair young and gifted chemist? Stay tuned till next time ;-) Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com Cc: Meteorite-list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Mon, Oct 3, 2011 11:00 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites(especiallyirons) Hi Doug and List, It sounded awfully high to me also, but what do I know? LOL Quoted below is the text from the write-up. Notice, the gold content is the only element listed in milligrams. Here is the text from the Met Bull write-up : Northwest Africa 6932 (NWA 6932) (Northwest Africa) Found: 2008 Classification: Iron meteorite (ungrouped) History: Reportedly found in the Algerian Desert Petrography: Plessitic octahedrite with isolated (5% of area) sparks and spindles of kamacite; longest bands are ~8 mm long and 0.2 mm wide. The material may be reheated; the fine plessite has a granular appearance and there are small dark ellipses that may reflect resorption of phosphide. No heat altered rim was recognized. Stucture Opl. Geochemistry: Composition: 4.51 mg/g Co, 69.8 mg/g Ni, 82.4 μg/g Ga, 380 μg/g Ge, 12.0 μg/g As, 4.12 μg/g Ir, and 1.49 mg/g Au. The meteorite has no close compositional relatives. For example, in the Co range from 6.2 to 7.5 mg/g, no ungrouped iron has a Au content within 20% and only Guin and Laurens County have Ir contents within 20% of that in this iron, but these irons differ in several other compositional respects. Specimens: Several additional masses are known. Best regards, MikeG PS - I am having internet connectivity issues and my connection is running about as well as a 500-pound man right now. So I think I will sign off until tomorrow morning and hopefully it improves then. LOL -- - Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber (Michael Gilmer) Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 - c On 10/3/11, MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com wrote: No way Mike, that there are 48 grams of gold in that 32 Kg hunk of tkw. ... Unless this is such an anomoly that comes from the Star of the Woman of the Golden Atom, I think none of this makes any sense and that the units are micrograms per gram ( μg/g ), and if that is the case there is not 48 grams of gold in them thar TKW, haha, more like a total of 0.03 grams in the whole 32 Kg mass to go refining. And if you read
Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites(especiallyirons)
Mike, You just need to upgrade the software from window 98 to something more modern like WinMe. Hehehe Pete Original Message Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites(especiallyirons) From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com Date: Mon, October 03, 2011 9:59 pm To: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com Cc: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Hi Doug and List, It sounded awfully high to me also, but what do I know? LOL Quoted below is the text from the write-up. Notice, the gold content is the only element listed in milligrams. Here is the text from the Met Bull write-up : Northwest Africa 6932 (NWA 6932) (Northwest Africa) Found: 2008 Classification: Iron meteorite (ungrouped) History: Reportedly found in the Algerian Desert Petrography: Plessitic octahedrite with isolated (5% of area) sparks and spindles of kamacite; longest bands are ~8 mm long and 0.2 mm wide. The material may be reheated; the fine plessite has a granular appearance and there are small dark ellipses that may reflect resorption of phosphide. No heat altered rim was recognized. Stucture Opl. Geochemistry: Composition: 4.51 mg/g Co, 69.8 mg/g Ni, 82.4 μg/g Ga, 380 μg/g Ge, 12.0 μg/g As, 4.12 μg/g Ir, and 1.49 mg/g Au. The meteorite has no close compositional relatives. For example, in the Co range from 6.2 to 7.5 mg/g, no ungrouped iron has a Au content within 20% and only Guin and Laurens County have Ir contents within 20% of that in this iron, but these irons differ in several other compositional respects. Specimens: Several additional masses are known. Best regards, MikeG PS - I am having internet connectivity issues and my connection is running about as well as a 500-pound man right now. So I think I will sign off until tomorrow morning and hopefully it improves then. LOL -- - Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber (Michael Gilmer) Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 -c On 10/3/11, MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com wrote: No way Mike, that there are 48 grams of gold in that 32 Kg hunk of tkw. ... Unless this is such an anomoly that comes from the Star of the Woman of the Golden Atom, I think none of this makes any sense and that the units are micrograms per gram ( μg/g ), and if that is the case there is not 48 grams of gold in them thar TKW, haha, more like a total of 0.03 grams in the whole 32 Kg mass to go refining. And if you read it somewhere, there is the possibility that the reference is wrong. Was the article peer reviewed? (my comment isn't ;-)) Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Cc: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Mon, Oct 3, 2011 9:45 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites(especiallyirons) Hi Gang, I was just curious about exactly how much gold is bound up inside a meteorite with a higher than average content, like the one in this example. Personally, I share the same sentiment as most of you - it would be heresy to destroy a meteorite to extract something that is available here on Earth, even if it wasn't cost-prohibitive. At 41 years old, I have made it this far in life with terrible math skills, so this old dog isn't going to take any refresher courses. I was hoping one of the more skilled (and intelligent) members would act as a human calculator and cipher this question for me. :) So in this particular case, the 32kg iron meteorite contains ~1.5 troy ounces of gold, with a current market value of ~$2550. What sparked my curiosity was the apparently high gold content that was measured in milligrams and not the usual micrograms one expects to see. One last question, perhaps rhetorical in a sense, has anyone ever seen gold in a meteorite? I mean, has there ever been a visible bleb or gold inclusion in a meteorite? Or is all of the gold bound up on a molecular level and invisible to the naked eye and 10x loupe? I guess there won't be a gold rush to the asteroid belt Best regards, MikeG -- - Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber (Michael Gilmer) Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia
Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites(especiallyirons)
The Girl in the Golden Atom can be read online here: http://www.bewilderingstories.com/issue21/atom1.html And it can be downloaded as an eBook in many formats here: http://www.manybooks.net/titles/cummingsr2109421094-8.html Unfortunately we can't ask Ray Cummings, who died in 1957, about the star and problems with the shrinking ray, but he would know -- he was Thomas Edison's publicist! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Cummings Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com To: meteoritem...@gmail.com Cc: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, October 03, 2011 11:31 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites(especiallyirons) Hi Mike, Stuart and fellow astrochemisticists, The Bulletin is not a peer reviewed place, it is just the world being held on a few Atlas' shoulders who are nice enough to slave over it and an occasional inaccuracy could happen. Perhaps it was an issue of optical character recognition since mu, the prefix for micro (as in micrograms) looks a lot like an m, if you put your astronomer's cap on you'd suspect that the simple explanation it is just a run of the mill typo that will now be corrected. But ... since we haven't analyzed this meteorite, we can't be sure. For my argument that it is hogwash that this meteorite would have all that gold (so, the bigger picture is, that don't spread the idea that there are up to 48 grams of gold in a 32 Kg chunk of iron meteorite or folks will forget where it came from and the next thing we know the newspapers will be proclaiming that meteorites are loaded with gold). OK my argument, referencing Anders Ebihara, 1982, yes the same Anders that (karmaca) Martin kindly contacted not too long ago who invented the term poor man's space probe for meteorites, showed that in the Solar system there is nearly one hundred-million times more iron than gold in the elemental abundances in the Solar System. Well, if an iron meteorite has in round numbers, 900 mg/g of iron (90%), then moving the decimal over 7 zeros, we get 0.09 mg Au/g, which is 0.009 mg/g which is 9 ug/g. Granted, 9 is off by a factor of 6x more than is reported for the meteorite but at least we are not a factor of nearly 200 off (1500 ug/g = 1.5 mg/g). That's all I can say, based on a nice guy's work from 1982... but I'm less peer reviewed than the Bulletin so we need someone who is closer to the analysis. Or, perhaps go through a bunch of irons with published analyses and just see if anything is over say, 10 ug/g, in which case that would make a far more interesting story than a footnote to an analysis on what star made all that gold and why. Was it the home star of Girl from the Golden Atom? Did their society get obliterated? Did the incredible shrinking ray malfunction when reforming their marriage ring? And what of our adventurous and debonair young and gifted chemist? Stay tuned till next time ;-) Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com Cc: Meteorite-list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Mon, Oct 3, 2011 11:00 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites(especiallyirons) Hi Doug and List, It sounded awfully high to me also, but what do I know? LOL Quoted below is the text from the write-up. Notice, the gold content is the only element listed in milligrams. Here is the text from the Met Bull write-up : Northwest Africa 6932 (NWA 6932) (Northwest Africa) Found: 2008 Classification: Iron meteorite (ungrouped) History: Reportedly found in the Algerian Desert Petrography: Plessitic octahedrite with isolated (5% of area) sparks and spindles of kamacite; longest bands are ~8 mm long and 0.2 mm wide. The material may be reheated; the fine plessite has a granular appearance and there are small dark ellipses that may reflect resorption of phosphide. No heat altered rim was recognized. Stucture Opl. Geochemistry: Composition: 4.51 mg/g Co, 69.8 mg/g Ni, 82.4 µg/g Ga, 380 µg/g Ge, 12.0 µg/g As, 4.12 µg/g Ir, and 1.49 mg/g Au. The meteorite has no close compositional relatives. For example, in the Co range from 6.2 to 7.5 mg/g, no ungrouped iron has a Au content within 20% and only Guin and Laurens County have Ir contents within 20% of that in this iron, but these irons differ in several other compositional respects. Specimens: Several additional masses are known. Best regards, MikeG PS - I am having internet connectivity issues and my connection is running about as well as a 500-pound man right now. So I think I will sign off until tomorrow morning and hopefully it improves then. LOL -- - Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber (Michael Gilmer) Website - http
Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites(especiallyirons)
But Doug, Who says the solar system is uniform and that this iron can't have a higher than average gold content? On Earth you certainly have ore bodies that have significantly high gold content (although much less than this meteorite) and then you have areas with no gold at all. Why can't this iron be from a source that just happened to have a higher than usual gold content? Btw, anyone got a sample of this stuff around? -Yinan On Tue, Oct 4, 2011 at 12:31 AM, MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com wrote: Hi Mike, Stuart and fellow astrochemisticists, The Bulletin is not a peer reviewed place, it is just the world being held on a few Atlas' shoulders who are nice enough to slave over it and an occasional inaccuracy could happen. Perhaps it was an issue of optical character recognition since mu, the prefix for micro (as in micrograms) looks a lot like an m, if you put your astronomer's cap on you'd suspect that the simple explanation it is just a run of the mill typo that will now be corrected. But ... since we haven't analyzed this meteorite, we can't be sure. For my argument that it is hogwash that this meteorite would have all that gold (so, the bigger picture is, that don't spread the idea that there are up to 48 grams of gold in a 32 Kg chunk of iron meteorite or folks will forget where it came from and the next thing we know the newspapers will be proclaiming that meteorites are loaded with gold). OK my argument, referencing Anders Ebihara, 1982, yes the same Anders that (karmaca) Martin kindly contacted not too long ago who invented the term poor man's space probe for meteorites, showed that in the Solar system there is nearly one hundred-million times more iron than gold in the elemental abundances in the Solar System. Well, if an iron meteorite has in round numbers, 900 mg/g of iron (90%), then moving the decimal over 7 zeros, we get 0.09 mg Au/g, which is 0.009 mg/g which is 9 ug/g. Granted, 9 is off by a factor of 6x more than is reported for the meteorite but at least we are not a factor of nearly 200 off (1500 ug/g = 1.5 mg/g). That's all I can say, based on a nice guy's work from 1982... but I'm less peer reviewed than the Bulletin so we need someone who is closer to the analysis. Or, perhaps go through a bunch of irons with published analyses and just see if anything is over say, 10 ug/g, in which case that would make a far more interesting story than a footnote to an analysis on what star made all that gold and why. Was it the home star of Girl from the Golden Atom? Did their society get obliterated? Did the incredible shrinking ray malfunction when reforming their marriage ring? And what of our adventurous and debonair young and gifted chemist? Stay tuned till next time ;-) Kindest wishes Doug -Original Message- From: Michael Gilmer meteoritem...@gmail.com To: MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com Cc: Meteorite-list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Mon, Oct 3, 2011 11:00 pm Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Gold and Iridium content of meteorites(especiallyirons) Hi Doug and List, It sounded awfully high to me also, but what do I know? LOL Quoted below is the text from the write-up. Notice, the gold content is the only element listed in milligrams. Here is the text from the Met Bull write-up : Northwest Africa 6932 (NWA 6932) (Northwest Africa) Found: 2008 Classification: Iron meteorite (ungrouped) History: Reportedly found in the Algerian Desert Petrography: Plessitic octahedrite with isolated (5% of area) sparks and spindles of kamacite; longest bands are ~8 mm long and 0.2 mm wide. The material may be reheated; the fine plessite has a granular appearance and there are small dark ellipses that may reflect resorption of phosphide. No heat altered rim was recognized. Stucture Opl. Geochemistry: Composition: 4.51 mg/g Co, 69.8 mg/g Ni, 82.4 μg/g Ga, 380 μg/g Ge, 12.0 μg/g As, 4.12 μg/g Ir, and 1.49 mg/g Au. The meteorite has no close compositional relatives. For example, in the Co range from 6.2 to 7.5 mg/g, no ungrouped iron has a Au content within 20% and only Guin and Laurens County have Ir contents within 20% of that in this iron, but these irons differ in several other compositional respects. Specimens: Several additional masses are known. Best regards, MikeG PS - I am having internet connectivity issues and my connection is running about as well as a 500-pound man right now. So I think I will sign off until tomorrow morning and hopefully it improves then. LOL -- - Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber (Michael Gilmer) Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564
