Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite'
Hi Shawn and all, If someone has already mentioned this, I'm sorry for the repeat. I have another 150 e-mails to catch up on. Some states in the US, including Colorado up until 7/2009, have a law that says that rainwater is owned by the state, not by the individual. So I couldn't put a bucket outside to catch the rain without breaking the law. So in Colorado, rain would basically fall into the same category as meteorites in some states, although I don't know about Australia. All four (rain, hail, lightning, meteorites) could be considered acts of God, but there can be specific stipulations for meteorites and rain depending on where they fall. Rain won't hurt if it hits you, but a meteorite could. But, governments could say that a meteorite isn't a meteorite until it hits the ground (or has come to a stop after hitting something on the ground, like the floor of your house), so the government doesn't own the meteorite yet when it hits you, so they are not liable for any damages that it causes, but as soon as it stops, then they become the owner of it. I'm not saying that this is the law, but it could be what some governments are thinking. In the case of Lorton, the lawyers for the landlord could argue that the first part of the building that was hit was the roof (which is undoubtedly owned by the landlord), so the landlord should own the meteorite. The meteorite came to rest on the floor inside the building that is being rented, but since the outside of the building was struck first, then the renters would have no say in the matter. Again, this is just a possible argument and I don't know if it would stand up in court. Just a thought. If the meteorite flew through an open window and came to rest on the floor, then I would think that the renters would have a much better case. Regards, Bob -Original Message- From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Alan Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 5:40 PM To: stanleygr...@hotmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock,not meteorite' Hello Greg and Listers, Great point that you brought up about the Act of God ruling but my question wasn't about rain or hail, my question is about a meteorite fall, which is the property of Australia. If Australia's property hits someone, I would say Australia is responsible for what damages the meteorite fall might cause, if its physical or psychological in my opinion... Its their property. Shawn Alan eBayshop http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=_armrs=1_from=_ipg=_trksid=p 4340 [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' Greg Stanley stanleygregr at hotmail.com Wed Apr 14 19:25:44 EDT 2010 Previous message: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] I would think this would fall under the Act of God ruling. I'm not sure about Australian law, but in the US an Act of God is used for damage caused by hail damage or lightning and such. So I would think you could not sue the government since it is an act of God. Greg S. Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 16:15:13 -0700 From: photophlow at yahoo.com To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' Hello Listers, I have a question about Alex's run in with being hit on the head by a rock that might have been a meteorite or not a meteorite. In any case, lets say this meteorite was bigger and hit him and caused some harm. And lets say Alex is from Australia , which from what I have read sounds like that is the case. Now from my understanding all meteorites are the property of the country, Australia . So in a since Australia is responsible for damages, harm, psychological and/or the well being of the citizens of Australia as a result from a meteorite fall. Now couldn't people sue if their town was hit by a meteorite because lets say if they had happen to be in that spot where it hit, they could have been murdered from the meteorite? Or lets say it did hit someone, then couldn't they hire a Johnnie Cochran lawyer and sue the day lights out of the state in Australia? Shawn Alan eBayShop http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=_armrs=1_from=_ipg=_trksid=p 4340 [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' Martin Altmann altmann at meteorite-martin.de Wed Apr 14 12:47:57 EDT 2010 Previous message: [meteorite-list] Time to revisit Lorton? Next message: [meteorite-list] meteorite from the sea Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author
Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite'
Dear Alex, I presume that you're from Western Australia, because you chose this thread to report your strange accident? The description of the stone sounds, as it is most probably no meteorite, but who knows? But if it is one, then be well aware - I know that it is difficult to understand - that in the millisecond the stone struck your head, it suddenly and instantaneously turned into a national natural or even cultural heritage of Australia. (yes, we know that a heritage is something old and traditional, but understand, that with such cosmic and astronomical things, the relativity of space and time comes into play). It might be painful to you, similar to the pain you felt, when the object hit you - but under no circumstances you are allowed to keep the stone, but you have the privilege to deliver it completely to the authorities, as it is property of the Western Australia Government, which rules also over the inner solar system. It may seem to you somewhat unjust and we know the Statute of Westminster and the Astralia Act, but here and there some isolated backslides into totalitarianism had obviously happened in your country. Now be pride to be allowed to deliver the object in person either to Mr. Ralph Martin from the observatory of Perth ralph.mar...@dec.wa.gov.au or to Mr. Alex Bevan at the Museum in Perth bev...@museum.wa.gov.au The latter will be able to explain you better than anybody else in your country, why this stone does not belong to you and why it is called a heritage, because he is said to be a famous meteorite philosopher. It is your duty as a patriot to bear the expenses of the delivery and to spend your time for handing over the object. In one point I can calm you: You can leave your head on. It hadn't became a cultural heritage and is not property of the WA government, neither the blain, because both items are reckoned to be so called impact materials and are not yet covered by legislation. To be sure that you can keep your head also in future, I recommend to let the incident being attested by a lawyer - for the case that Bevan and colleagues once will suggest to expand the meteorite laws also on impact materials. Best! Martin Von: alex rynkiewicz [mailto:aces...@live.com] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 14. April 2010 16:42 An: altm...@meteorite-martin.de; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Betreff: RE: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' dear meteorite hunters. iwork as a prison guard and on 9july09 940pm i was hit in the head by a bean sized and shaped stone, it is golden in color with small clear stones and has 2 dark stains bb sized, one on each side. it looks like staining (graphite) like under a fusion crust that has blown off. it has a carbide feel to the touch. need help in identifing it. any help is appreciated. alex j rynkiewicz __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite'
Steve, This St. louis Meteorite is interesting. What if the car had been driving on private land? As discussed previously on this list, this should be referred to in the Lorton Court Case. As that meteorite also never did hit actual Earth. It hit legally rented space and was found in much the same way as a car that hits a telephone pole. Do you say the pole found the car? I think not! Yes, Lorton was found but was much more than that. It was a Fall. Silly? http://www.meteorman.org/St_Louis_Meteorite.htm -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax meteorh...@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 4/13/2010 4:29:53 P.M. Central Daylight Time, veom...@gmail.com writes: Then, on the bounce, it touches the Earth and becomes the Property of The State. So if a meteoroid embeds itself into your car, or you catch it before it hits the ground (ya, improbable as it seems), or if bounces off a cow and you catch it, does it belong to you now since it did not become a meteorite? - YvW *** Veomega, As I understand, the St. Louis meteorite hit a car and stayed in it while it was being driven down a city street. On an aside, I don't think the City of St. Louis asserted any claim that it was their property. Steve Arnold of Meteorite Men __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite'
Carl, All, I wouldn't equate it at all to the pole analogy, because...well, it's different. The pole is already owned by someone to begin with. You can't really argue that, if I hit a pole with my car, I will gain the right to own it. Even if my car is parked and a telephone pole falls on it, that pole is still the property of whoever owned the pole - if it weren't, the pole would become mine and I would have to pay for the damages caused by *my* pole. And if anything that hits my car becomes mine...well, let's just say that I'm sorely tempted to try to drive my way into the lobby of the AMNH and give good ole' Willamette a nudge with my bumper. The only reason that this is debatable is because meteorites are different. They're not like anything terrestrial in that no one owns them before they hit the ground. If I pick anything up off of the surface of the earth, at this point in time, it already belongs to someone - unless I manage to find it in international waters, in which case I might be able to get away with claiming ownership with no strings attached (I'm excluding Antarctica, for obvious reasons). There are disputed borders and crap like that, granted, but everything has already been claimed, at least once. Not meteoroids. Existing meteorites, yes, but meteoroids, up there in space, destined to fall, are still unclaimed property. It's why they're different. In this case, I think the most relevant issue has to do with renters versus owners being able to claim meteorites. Ideally I think that it should depend on the existing contract - if the renter is liable to fix damages, it seems to me that they should have the right to the stone, and if the owner is responsible, surely they should get the stone. But then a question would arise - what about the owner who has made a contract that, while it holds the renter liable for damages, makes an exception for when a meteorite falls through their roof, offering to pay for the one-time-repairs and asking for the meteorite...in that case, wouldn't the renter have the option of saying no, and then keeping the stone if they paid for the repairs, as was contractually asked of them? Interesting stuff... Jason On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:24 AM, cdtuc...@cox.net wrote: Steve, This St. louis Meteorite is interesting. What if the car had been driving on private land? As discussed previously on this list, this should be referred to in the Lorton Court Case. As that meteorite also never did hit actual Earth. It hit legally rented space and was found in much the same way as a car that hits a telephone pole. Do you say the pole found the car? I think not! Yes, Lorton was found but was much more than that. It was a Fall. Silly? http://www.meteorman.org/St_Louis_Meteorite.htm -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax meteorh...@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 4/13/2010 4:29:53 P.M. Central Daylight Time, veom...@gmail.com writes: Then, on the bounce, it touches the Earth and becomes the Property of The State. So if a meteoroid embeds itself into your car, or you catch it before it hits the ground (ya, improbable as it seems), or if bounces off a cow and you catch it, does it belong to you now since it did not become a meteorite? - YvW *** Veomega, As I understand, the St. Louis meteorite hit a car and stayed in it while it was being driven down a city street. On an aside, I don't think the City of St. Louis asserted any claim that it was their property. Steve Arnold of Meteorite Men __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite'
Jason Utas meteorite...@gmail.com wrote: Carl, All, I wouldn't equate it at all to the pole analogy, because...well, it's different. The pole is already owned by someone to begin with. THERE YOU GO AGAIN! NOBODY WANTS THE POLE JASON. USING MY ANALOGY IT WOULD BE THE CAR OWNERSHIP THAT IS IN QUESTION HERE NOT THE POLE. THE POINT IS THAT THE CAR WAS NOT FOUND. NOR WAS THE LORTON METEORITE. You can't really argue that, if I hit a pole with my car, I will gain the right to own it. THINK HERE JASON . NOBODY IS SAYING THE LORTON METEORITE OWNS THE BUILDING BECAUSE IT HIT IT ANY MORE THAN THE POLE OWNS THE CAR . WE ARE TALKING THIRD PARTY HERE. THIS CONCEPT REQUIRE DEEP THOUGHT HERE. HAVE SOME COFFEE. Even if my car is parked and a telephone pole falls on it, that pole is still the property of whoever owned the pole - if it weren't, the pole would become mine and I would have to pay for the damages caused by *my* pole. And if anything that hits my car becomes mine...well, let's just say that I'm sorely tempted to try to drive my way into the lobby of the AMNH and give good ole' Willamette a nudge with my bumper. The only reason that this is debatable is because meteorites are different. AND A FALL IS ALSO DIFFERENT THAN A FIND. They're not like anything terrestrial in that no one owns them before they hit the ground. If I pick anything up off of the surface of the earth, at this point in time, it already belongs to someone AGAIN THIS IS NOT A FIND ON THE GROUND. IT NEVER HIT THE GROUND. IT HIT A MOVING CAR. - unless I manage to find it in international waters, in which case I might be able to get away with claiming ownership with no strings attached (I'm excluding Antarctica, for obvious reasons). There are disputed borders and crap like that, granted, but everything has already been claimed, at least once. Not meteoroids. Existing meteorites, yes, but meteoroids, up there in space, destined to fall, are still unclaimed property. ONLY UNTIL WA GOVERNMENT STEPS IN. It's why they're different. YES, THEY ARE WAY DIFFERENT. In this case, I think the most relevant issue has to do with renters versus owners being able to claim meteorites. Ideally I think that it should depend on the existing contract - if the renter is liable to fix damages, it seems to me that they should have the right to the stone, and if the owner is responsible, surely they should get the stone. But then a question would arise - what about the owner who has made a contract that, while it holds the renter liable for damages, makes an exception for when a meteorite falls through their roof, offering to pay for the one-time-repairs and asking for the meteorite...in that case, wouldn't the renter have the option of saying no, and then keeping the stone if they paid for the repairs, as was contractually asked of them? YES, IT COMES DOWN TO WHO ARGUES THE CASE BETTER IN COURT. I THINK THE PREVIOUS CASES HAD RATHER LIMP LAWYERS. ESPECIALLY THE HODGES CASE. THE LANDLORD HAD A LAWYER AND MRS. HODGES OBVIOUSLY DID NOT. GEE, I WONDER WHY THE LANDLORD WON THAT ONE. Interesting stuff.. YES IT IS. IN SOME CASES THEY ARGUED OWNERSHIP BASED ON THE METEORITE BECAME PART OF THE LAND BUT IN THESE CASES THE METEORITE SIMPLY COULD NOT HAVE BECAUSE IT NEVER TOUCHED THE GROUND. AS YOU SAY A DIFFERENT SITUATION. . Jason On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:24 AM, cdtuc...@cox.net wrote: Steve, This St. louis Meteorite is interesting. What if the car had been driving on private land? As discussed previously on this list, this should be referred to in the Lorton Court Case. As that meteorite also never did hit actual Earth. It hit legally rented space and was found in much the same way as a car that hits a telephone pole. Do you say the pole found the car? I think not! Yes, Lorton was found but was much more than that. It was a Fall. Silly? http://www.meteorman.org/St_Louis_Meteorite.htm -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax meteorh...@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 4/13/2010 4:29:53 P.M. Central Daylight Time, veom...@gmail.com writes: Then, on the bounce, it touches the Earth and becomes the Property of The State. So if a meteoroid embeds itself into your car, or you catch it before it hits the ground (ya, improbable as it seems), or if bounces off a cow and you catch it, does it belong to you now since it did not become a meteorite? - YvW *** Veomega, As I understand, the St. Louis meteorite hit a car and stayed in it while it was being driven down a city street. On an aside, I don't think the City of St. Louis asserted any claim that it was their property. Steve Arnold of Meteorite Men __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list
Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite'
If I pick anything up off of the surface of the earth, at this point in time, it already belongs to someone - unless I manage to find it in international waters, Not correct, Jason. There exists the concept of ownerless objects. The third stone of the Neuschwanstein-fall was such an object, said the court. Btw if we now start to discuss about to whom the dirt sticking on the bottom side of our shoe soles might belong, then I think we will converge the intellectual content of meteorite legislation. Cooee!! Meteorite laws are SILLY !! And very TRIVIAL. There is nothing to sophisticate about. Why there are meteorite laws and what is the simple intention of them? A few men and women decided: We want meteorites. We want them: 1) for free 2) without any efforts 3) we don't want to have to find them Plain and simple. With 2) and 3) everyone agrees, with 1) not. What the problem is, that some don't get it, that with 1), 2) and 3) together, they don't get no meteorites at all. Says the Meteoritical Bulletin published by the Meteoritical Society, London. And that some care, some not. That's the whole secret. Best. Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jason Utas Gesendet: Mittwoch, 14. April 2010 19:53 An: Meteorite-list Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock,not meteorite' Carl, All, I wouldn't equate it at all to the pole analogy, because...well, it's different. The pole is already owned by someone to begin with. You can't really argue that, if I hit a pole with my car, I will gain the right to own it. Even if my car is parked and a telephone pole falls on it, that pole is still the property of whoever owned the pole - if it weren't, the pole would become mine and I would have to pay for the damages caused by *my* pole. And if anything that hits my car becomes mine...well, let's just say that I'm sorely tempted to try to drive my way into the lobby of the AMNH and give good ole' Willamette a nudge with my bumper. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite'
that this is debatable is because meteorites are different. AND A FALL IS ALSO DIFFERENT THAN A FIND. The interesting thing is that you don't even address my comment in the paragraph above that deals with the pole hitting the car (as opposed to the idea of a car running into a pole, which apparently never happens and is a ridiculous thing to even say [sarcasm]). Yes, and fall are indeed 'different than finds.' I also elaborate on that below. I'll point out precisely when. They're not like anything terrestrial in that no one owns them before they hit the ground. If I pick anything up off of the surface of the earth, at this point in time, it already belongs to someone AGAIN THIS IS NOT A FIND ON THE GROUND. IT NEVER HIT THE GROUND. IT HIT A MOVING CAR. Before they hit the ground. Clarification enough? I suppose not. That's why I proceeded to clarify below. - unless I manage to find it in international waters, in which case I might be able to get away with claiming ownership with no strings attached (I'm excluding Antarctica, for obvious reasons). There are disputed borders and crap like that, granted, but everything has already been claimed, at least once. Not meteoroids. Existing meteorites, yes, but meteoroids, up there in space, destined to fall, are still unclaimed property. ONLY UNTIL WA GOVERNMENT STEPS IN. Meteoroids. Huh. I wonder why I used that word. I wonder what it could possibly mean. It might mean...a meteorite...before it hits the groundmaybe. I don't know, man. All this lingo is way too confusing for me. You don't seem to get that Martin's last post was satirical...that might be your problem. It's why they're different. YES, THEY ARE WAY DIFFERENT. Wait a sec. You bash me above for not saying it, and then agree with me when I say it down here? Do you even read a post in its entirety before replying to it? You literally insult me up above for not saying it [above in my post], and then simply agree when I do? I can't have an intelligent conversation with someone who doesn't even hear and argument out before trying to bash me for what I have to say (especially when you actually agree with it). I'm sorry, but in the future if you do continue to post as such, I'll simply ignore you. In this case, I think the most relevant issue has to do with renters versus owners being able to claim meteorites. Ideally I think that it should depend on the existing contract - if the renter is liable to fix damages, it seems to me that they should have the right to the stone, and if the owner is responsible, surely they should get the stone. But then a question would arise - what about the owner who has made a contract that, while it holds the renter liable for damages, makes an exception for when a meteorite falls through their roof, offering to pay for the one-time-repairs and asking for the meteorite...in that case, wouldn't the renter have the option of saying no, and then keeping the stone if they paid for the repairs, as was contractually asked of them? YES, IT COMES DOWN TO WHO ARGUES THE CASE BETTER IN COURT. I THINK THE PREVIOUS CASES HAD RATHER LIMP LAWYERS. ESPECIALLY THE HODGES CASE. THE LANDLORD HAD A LAWYER AND MRS. HODGES OBVIOUSLY DID NOT. GEE, I WONDER WHY THE LANDLORD WON THAT ONE. The landlord probably won because, in this country, a meteorite belongs to the owner of the land it falls on. It fell on the owner's land. Not knowing the terms of the rent/lease, I don't know how the scenario would unfold even *if* the court saw things in the same way that I do. And since neither I nor you actually know the details, presuming as much (and making the typical the rich person had a lawyer so they won the case unfairly sort of argument) doesn't get us anywhere. Interesting stuff.. YES IT IS. IN SOME CASES THEY ARGUED OWNERSHIP BASED ON THE METEORITE BECAME PART OF THE LAND BUT IN THESE CASES THE METEORITE SIMPLY COULD NOT HAVE BECAUSE IT NEVER TOUCHED THE GROUND. AS YOU SAY A DIFFERENT SITUATION. . I mean, by what you've been saying all along, if it never hit the ground, it wouldn't be a meteorite...so maybe I should get angry and just reply to you using all caps and only address your dictional inconsistency and lack of clarity/misuse of terminology. But, regardless of your hypocritical reference to these pseudo-meteorites, the new suggested definition of a meteorite would...suggest otherwise. http://www.mail-archive.com/meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com/msg84151.html I find it very interesting that this post/definition was so quickly forgotten - it was sent to the list barely a week and a half ago! At least I thought it was interesting Jason -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jason Utas Gesendet: Mittwoch, 14. April 2010 19:53 An: Meteorite-list Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation
[meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite'
Hello Listers, I have a question about Alex's run in with being hit on the head by a rock that might have been a meteorite or not a meteorite. In any case, lets say this meteorite was bigger and hit him and caused some harm. And lets say Alex is from Australia , which from what I have read sounds like that is the case. Now from my understanding all meteorites are the property of the country, Australia . So in a since Australia is responsible for damages, harm, psychological and/or the well being of the citizens of Australia as a result from a meteorite fall. Now couldn't people sue if their town was hit by a meteorite because lets say if they had happen to be in that spot where it hit, they could have been murdered from the meteorite? Or lets say it did hit someone, then couldn't they hire a Johnnie Cochran lawyer and sue the day lights out of the state in Australia? Shawn Alan eBayShop http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=_armrs=1_from=_ipg=_trksid=p4340 [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' Martin Altmann altmann at meteorite-martin.de Wed Apr 14 12:47:57 EDT 2010 Previous message: [meteorite-list] Time to revisit Lorton? Next message: [meteorite-list] meteorite from the sea Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Dear Alex, I presume that you're from Western Australia, because you chose this thread to report your strange accident? The description of the stone sounds, as it is most probably no meteorite, but who knows? But if it is one, then be well aware - I know that it is difficult to understand - that in the millisecond the stone struck your head, it suddenly and instantaneously turned into a national natural or even cultural heritage of Australia. (yes, we know that a heritage is something old and traditional, but understand, that with such cosmic and astronomical things, the relativity of space and time comes into play). It might be painful to you, similar to the pain you felt, when the object hit you - but under no circumstances you are allowed to keep the stone, but you have the privilege to deliver it completely to the authorities, as it is property of the Western Australia Government, which rules also over the inner solar system. It may seem to you somewhat unjust and we know the Statute of Westminster and the Astralia Act, but here and there some isolated backslides into totalitarianism had obviously happened in your country. Now be pride to be allowed to deliver the object in person either to Mr. Ralph Martin from the observatory of Perth Ralph.Martin at dec.wa.gov.au or to Mr. Alex Bevan at the Museum in Perth bevana at museum.wa.gov.au The latter will be able to explain you better than anybody else in your country, why this stone does not belong to you and why it is called a heritage, because he is said to be a famous meteorite philosopher. It is your duty as a patriot to bear the expenses of the delivery and to spend your time for handing over the object. In one point I can calm you: You can leave your head on. It hadn't became a cultural heritage and is not property of the WA government, neither the blain, because both items are reckoned to be so called impact materials and are not yet covered by legislation. To be sure that you can keep your head also in future, I recommend to let the incident being attested by a lawyer - for the case that Bevan and colleagues once will suggest to expand the meteorite laws also on impact materials. Best! Martin Von: alex rynkiewicz [mailto:acesand at live.com] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 14. April 2010 16:42 An: altmann at meteorite-martin.de; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: RE: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' dear meteorite hunters. iwork as a prison guard and on 9july09 940pm i was hit in the head by a bean sized and shaped stone, it is golden in color with small clear stones and has 2 dark stains bb sized, one on each side. it looks like staining (graphite) like under a fusion crust that has blown off. it has a carbide feel to the touch. need help in identifing it. any help is appreciated. alex j rynkiewicz Previous message: [meteorite-list] Time to revisit Lorton? Next message: [meteorite-list] meteorite from the sea Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] More information about the Meteorite-list mailing list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net
Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite'
I would think this would fall under the Act of God ruling. I'm not sure about Australian law, but in the US an Act of God is used for damage caused by hail damage or lightning and such. So I would think you could not sue the government since it is an act of God. Greg S. Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 16:15:13 -0700 From: photoph...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' Hello Listers, I have a question about Alex's run in with being hit on the head by a rock that might have been a meteorite or not a meteorite. In any case, lets say this meteorite was bigger and hit him and caused some harm. And lets say Alex is from Australia , which from what I have read sounds like that is the case. Now from my understanding all meteorites are the property of the country, Australia . So in a since Australia is responsible for damages, harm, psychological and/or the well being of the citizens of Australia as a result from a meteorite fall. Now couldn't people sue if their town was hit by a meteorite because lets say if they had happen to be in that spot where it hit, they could have been murdered from the meteorite? Or lets say it did hit someone, then couldn't they hire a Johnnie Cochran lawyer and sue the day lights out of the state in Australia? Shawn Alan eBayShop http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=_armrs=1_from=_ipg=_trksid=p4340 [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' Martin Altmann altmann at meteorite-martin.de Wed Apr 14 12:47:57 EDT 2010 Previous message: [meteorite-list] Time to revisit Lorton? Next message: [meteorite-list] meteorite from the sea Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Dear Alex, I presume that you're from Western Australia, because you chose this thread to report your strange accident? The description of the stone sounds, as it is most probably no meteorite, but who knows? But if it is one, then be well aware - I know that it is difficult to understand - that in the millisecond the stone struck your head, it suddenly and instantaneously turned into a national natural or even cultural heritage of Australia. (yes, we know that a heritage is something old and traditional, but understand, that with such cosmic and astronomical things, the relativity of space and time comes into play). It might be painful to you, similar to the pain you felt, when the object hit you - but under no circumstances you are allowed to keep the stone, but you have the privilege to deliver it completely to the authorities, as it is property of the Western Australia Government, which rules also over the inner solar system. It may seem to you somewhat unjust and we know the Statute of Westminster and the Astralia Act, but here and there some isolated backslides into totalitarianism had obviously happened in your country. Now be pride to be allowed to deliver the object in person either to Mr. Ralph Martin from the observatory of Perth Ralph.Martin at dec.wa.gov.au or to Mr. Alex Bevan at the Museum in Perth bevana at museum.wa.gov.au The latter will be able to explain you better than anybody else in your country, why this stone does not belong to you and why it is called a heritage, because he is said to be a famous meteorite philosopher. It is your duty as a patriot to bear the expenses of the delivery and to spend your time for handing over the object. In one point I can calm you: You can leave your head on. It hadn't became a cultural heritage and is not property of the WA government, neither the blain, because both items are reckoned to be so called impact materials and are not yet covered by legislation. To be sure that you can keep your head also in future, I recommend to let the incident being attested by a lawyer - for the case that Bevan and colleagues once will suggest to expand the meteorite laws also on impact materials. Best! Martin Von: alex rynkiewicz [mailto:acesand at live.com] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 14. April 2010 16:42 An: altmann at meteorite-martin.de; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Betreff: RE: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' dear meteorite hunters. iwork as a prison guard and on 9july09 940pm i was hit in the head by a bean sized and shaped stone, it is golden in color with small clear stones and has 2 dark stains bb sized, one on each side. it looks like staining (graphite) like under a fusion crust that has blown off. it has a carbide feel to the touch. need help in identifing it. any help is appreciated. alex j rynkiewicz Previous
[meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite'
Hello Greg and Listers, Great point that you brought up about the Act of God ruling but my question wasn't about rain or hail, my question is about a meteorite fall, which is the property of Australia. If Australia's property hits someone, I would say Australia is responsible for what damages the meteorite fall might cause, if its physical or psychological in my opinion... Its their property. Shawn Alan eBayshop http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=_armrs=1_from=_ipg=_trksid=p4340 [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' Greg Stanley stanleygregr at hotmail.com Wed Apr 14 19:25:44 EDT 2010 Previous message: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] I would think this would fall under the Act of God ruling. I'm not sure about Australian law, but in the US an Act of God is used for damage caused by hail damage or lightning and such. So I would think you could not sue the government since it is an act of God. Greg S. Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 16:15:13 -0700 From: photophlow at yahoo.com To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' Hello Listers, I have a question about Alex's run in with being hit on the head by a rock that might have been a meteorite or not a meteorite. In any case, lets say this meteorite was bigger and hit him and caused some harm. And lets say Alex is from Australia , which from what I have read sounds like that is the case. Now from my understanding all meteorites are the property of the country, Australia . So in a since Australia is responsible for damages, harm, psychological and/or the well being of the citizens of Australia as a result from a meteorite fall. Now couldn't people sue if their town was hit by a meteorite because lets say if they had happen to be in that spot where it hit, they could have been murdered from the meteorite? Or lets say it did hit someone, then couldn't they hire a Johnnie Cochran lawyer and sue the day lights out of the state in Australia? Shawn Alan eBayShop http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=_armrs=1_from=_ipg=_trksid=p4340 [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' Martin Altmann altmann at meteorite-martin.de Wed Apr 14 12:47:57 EDT 2010 Previous message: [meteorite-list] Time to revisit Lorton? Next message: [meteorite-list] meteorite from the sea Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] Dear Alex, I presume that you're from Western Australia, because you chose this thread to report your strange accident? The description of the stone sounds, as it is most probably no meteorite, but who knows? But if it is one, then be well aware - I know that it is difficult to understand - that in the millisecond the stone struck your head, it suddenly and instantaneously turned into a national natural or even cultural heritage of Australia. (yes, we know that a heritage is something old and traditional, but understand, that with such cosmic and astronomical things, the relativity of space and time comes into play). It might be painful to you, similar to the pain you felt, when the object hit you - but under no circumstances you are allowed to keep the stone, but you have the privilege to deliver it completely to the authorities, as it is property of the Western Australia Government, which rules also over the inner solar system. It may seem to you somewhat unjust and we know the Statute of Westminster and the Astralia Act, but here and there some isolated backslides into totalitarianism had obviously happened in your country. Now be pride to be allowed to deliver the object in person either to Mr. Ralph Martin from the observatory of Perth Ralph.Martin at dec.wa.gov.au or to Mr. Alex Bevan at the Museum in Perth bevana at museum.wa.gov.au The latter will be able to explain you better than anybody else in your country, why this stone does not belong to you and why it is called a heritage, because he is said to be a famous meteorite philosopher. It is your duty as a patriot to bear the expenses of the delivery and to spend your time for handing over the object. In one point I can calm you: You can leave your head on. It hadn't became a cultural heritage and is not property of the WA government, neither the blain, because both items are reckoned to be so called impact materials and are not yet covered by legislation. To be sure
Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite'
Hi Jason, it was only an example, that in different countries exist different legal conceptions regarding meteorites, and I chose it, because anyway there exist almost no court decisions about meteorites. (Was btw. ruled according Austrian law, cause found in Austria). Generally speaking, most countries... Dunnoh. I'd rather suppose, that from the 200+ countries a majority hasn't any laws regarding meteorites, simply because they are too rare and falls and finds happen there not often enough, that the legislative would care about such exotic stuff or would be able to spell the word meteorite. Nja well. Jason, my opinion is, that the data of the Bulletins as well as the 1st-hand figures we hear in such forums like here from finders, leave only a very narrow room for interpretation and for finding out, which methods are adequate and which are less adequate, if a country wants to get many new finds and falls into their national collections or more globally seen for new meteorites being (I almost wrote staying)available to research. Preservation and protection Sure this position has a good logic: What hasn't be found, that can't be lost. ...but whether it makes sense, is another question, which not all will answer in the same way. Well, I think during the last years, we discussed that topic here on the list at length, from all points of view, en detail and in general, and absolutely exhaustively. Different opinions were explicated, many different solutions were suggested. I think, I can now retire from that complex. Anyway, the future is not in our hands. Maybe I'm only to pessimist and chapfallen from these new prohibitive meteorite laws in many countries of the recent years and the decline of meteoritics in some countries, where restrictive laws were for a longer while in force... ...but we should rather enjoy all our new thrilling recoveries, as long as we're still allowed to do that. And who knows, perhaps there are some people with more influence than we all have, who are worried in the same wayand in the end a good way will be found. Well in that hope, this shall have been my last posting about heavenly bodies and their terrestrial ties :-) Best! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jason Utas Gesendet: Donnerstag, 15. April 2010 00:11 An: Meteorite-list Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock,not meteorite' To limit posts, Martin's is responded to above, Carl's, below: If I pick anything up off of the surface of the earth, at this point in time, it already belongs to someone - unless I manage to find it in international waters, Not correct, Jason. There exists the concept of ownerless objects. Actually, Martin, it's more correct than your answer. See below. The third stone of the Neuschwanstein-fall was such an object, said the court. Most countries don't classify meteorites as ownerless objects, so the fact that you can pick out a single exception is...well, it proves that, in Germany, a single court decision decided as much for a single meteorite. Generally speaking, most countries have laws or have come to legal decisions that give meteorite ownership to the landholder or to the country itself regardless of the private deed-holder. Btw if we now start to discuss about to whom the dirt sticking on the bottom side of our shoe soles might belong, then I think we will converge the intellectual content of meteorite legislation. Right! But we're talking about walking through someone's mine and coming out with diamonds stuck to the mud on the bottom of your shoe. Cooee!! Meteorite laws are SILLY !! And very TRIVIAL. Not so trivial if you consider their scientific importance, value, and rarity... There is nothing to sophisticate about. Why there are meteorite laws and what is the simple intention of them? A few men and women decided: We want meteorites. We want them: 1) for free 2) without any efforts 3) we don't want to have to find them Plain and simple. With 2) and 3) everyone agrees, with 1) not. Why are all laws made? A few people decided that it would be better for societies to have rules like 'you don't steal from other people,' or things like that. And I don't see you arguing with laws that protect vertebrate fossils from amateur fossil hunters in the United States - a similar law that I brought up in the past...that you never even addressed. What the problem is, that some don't get it, that with 1), 2) and 3) together, they don't get no meteorites at all. Says the Meteoritical Bulletin published by the Meteoritical Society, London. Well, it's interesting. While we all might benefit sooner from the influx of data, again, I think this is something of an issue with regards to negligent hunting methods, etc. There's something to having a scientist pick up the pieces of a fall
[meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite'
http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/special-features/museum-investigates-meteorite-claims/story-e6frg1ac-1225837470139 Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' SCIENTISTS investigating claims a meteor fragment the size of a cricket ball collided into a WA house have confirmed it was almost certainly a rock. The object hit the roof of the home about 4pm on Thursday in the north-eastern Perth suburb of Beechboro. A female occupant thought it was a meteor. The WA Museum today said the object may have fallen from a plane lowering its landing gear. The museum's head of Earth and Planetary Sciences, Dr Alex Bevan, yesterday inspected the object, which he did not suspect was from outer space. Alex did have a look at some photos of the object, but when he did look at it in person, he did not think it was from a meteorite, a museum spokesperson said. Sometimes rocks get caught in the wheels of planes and as they are lowering their gear they may fall, we just don't know. Perth Observatory said it had received a couple of reports on Thursday night from people phoning to say they had seen a light in the sky. At this stage no one seems to be able to put it all together, but if it was a meteor it belongs to the WA Government, observatory astronomer Ralph Martyn said. The reports at this stage are very sketchy. He said the observatory was waiting to inspect a photograph of the object. A lot of people find slag out of glass furnaces and think they are meteorites as well, they kind of look the same. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite'
A lot of people find slag out of glass furnaces and think they are meteorites as well, they kind of look the same. Because those people finding real meteorites, lunars and Martians aren't coming to Australia. :-( Why? Because: if it was a meteor it belongs to the WA Government. Other question, would WA Government have paid the fixing of the roof, if it would have been a meteorite? I mean, then the damage would have caused by a property of the state, wouldn't it? Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jeff Kuyken Gesendet: Dienstag, 13. April 2010 16:35 An: meteorite list Betreff: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock,not meteorite' http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/special-features/museum-investigates-meteori te-claims/story-e6frg1ac-1225837470139 Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' SCIENTISTS investigating claims a meteor fragment the size of a cricket ball collided into a WA house have confirmed it was almost certainly a rock. The object hit the roof of the home about 4pm on Thursday in the north-eastern Perth suburb of Beechboro. A female occupant thought it was a meteor. The WA Museum today said the object may have fallen from a plane lowering its landing gear. The museum's head of Earth and Planetary Sciences, Dr Alex Bevan, yesterday inspected the object, which he did not suspect was from outer space. Alex did have a look at some photos of the object, but when he did look at it in person, he did not think it was from a meteorite, a museum spokesperson said. Sometimes rocks get caught in the wheels of planes and as they are lowering their gear they may fall, we just don't know. Perth Observatory said it had received a couple of reports on Thursday night from people phoning to say they had seen a light in the sky. At this stage no one seems to be able to put it all together, but if it was a meteor it belongs to the WA Government, observatory astronomer Ralph Martyn said. The reports at this stage are very sketchy. He said the observatory was waiting to inspect a photograph of the object. A lot of people find slag out of glass furnaces and think they are meteorites as well, they kind of look the same. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite'
Hi Martin, I thought the last two lines in your email were great: Other question, would WA Government have paid the fixing of the roof, if it would have been a meteorite? I mean, then the damage would have caused by a property of the state,wouldn't it? Good pointI had to laugh at that one! Greg From: altm...@meteorite-martin.de To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 17:29:58 +0200 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' A lot of people find slag out of glass furnaces and think they are meteorites as well, they kind of look the same. Because those people finding real meteorites, lunars and Martians aren't coming to Australia. :-( Why? Because: if it was a meteor it belongs to the WA Government. Other question, would WA Government have paid the fixing of the roof, if it would have been a meteorite? I mean, then the damage would have caused by a property of the state, wouldn't it? Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jeff Kuyken Gesendet: Dienstag, 13. April 2010 16:35 An: meteorite list Betreff: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock,not meteorite' http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/special-features/museum-investigates-meteori te-claims/story-e6frg1ac-1225837470139 Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' SCIENTISTS investigating claims a meteor fragment the size of a cricket ball collided into a WA house have confirmed it was almost certainly a rock. The object hit the roof of the home about 4pm on Thursday in the north-eastern Perth suburb of Beechboro. A female occupant thought it was a meteor. The WA Museum today said the object may have fallen from a plane lowering its landing gear. The museum's head of Earth and Planetary Sciences, Dr Alex Bevan, yesterday inspected the object, which he did not suspect was from outer space. Alex did have a look at some photos of the object, but when he did look at it in person, he did not think it was from a meteorite, a museum spokesperson said. Sometimes rocks get caught in the wheels of planes and as they are lowering their gear they may fall, we just don't know. Perth Observatory said it had received a couple of reports on Thursday night from people phoning to say they had seen a light in the sky. At this stage no one seems to be able to put it all together, but if it was a meteor it belongs to the WA Government, observatory astronomer Ralph Martyn said. The reports at this stage are very sketchy. He said the observatory was waiting to inspect a photograph of the object. A lot of people find slag out of glass furnaces and think they are meteorites as well, they kind of look the same. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite'
Interesting thought Martin... I wonder what their position would be regarding a meteorite (that belonged to the state) hitting and injuring/killing somebody? Graham, UK Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: A lot of people find slag out of glass furnaces and think they are meteorites as well, they kind of look the same. Because those people finding real meteorites, lunars and Martians aren't coming to Australia. :-( Why? Because: if it was a meteor it belongs to the WA Government. Other question, would WA Government have paid the fixing of the roof, if it would have been a meteorite? I mean, then the damage would have caused by a property of the state, wouldn't it? Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jeff Kuyken Gesendet: Dienstag, 13. April 2010 16:35 An: meteorite list Betreff: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock,not meteorite' http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/special-features/museum-investigates-meteori te-claims/story-e6frg1ac-1225837470139 Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' SCIENTISTS investigating claims a meteor fragment the size of a cricket ball collided into a WA house have confirmed it was almost certainly a rock. The object hit the roof of the home about 4pm on Thursday in the north-eastern Perth suburb of Beechboro. A female occupant thought it was a meteor. The WA Museum today said the object may have fallen from a plane lowering its landing gear. The museum's head of Earth and Planetary Sciences, Dr Alex Bevan, yesterday inspected the object, which he did not suspect was from outer space. Alex did have a look at some photos of the object, but when he did look at it in person, he did not think it was from a meteorite, a museum spokesperson said. Sometimes rocks get caught in the wheels of planes and as they are lowering their gear they may fall, we just don't know. Perth Observatory said it had received a couple of reports on Thursday night from people phoning to say they had seen a light in the sky. At this stage no one seems to be able to put it all together, but if it was a meteor it belongs to the WA Government, observatory astronomer Ralph Martyn said. The reports at this stage are very sketchy. He said the observatory was waiting to inspect a photograph of the object. A lot of people find slag out of glass furnaces and think they are meteorites as well, they kind of look the same. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite'
They would call it an 'Act Of God. Warren Sansoucie Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 21:31:44 +0100 From: ensorama...@ntlworld.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; altm...@meteorite-martin.de Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' Interesting thought Martin... I wonder what their position would be regarding a meteorite (that belonged to the state) hitting and injuring/killing somebody? Graham, UK Martin Altmann wrote: A lot of people find slag out of glass furnaces and think they are meteorites as well, they kind of look the same. Because those people finding real meteorites, lunars and Martians aren't coming to Australia. :-( Why? Because: if it was a meteor it belongs to the WA Government. Other question, would WA Government have paid the fixing of the roof, if it would have been a meteorite? I mean, then the damage would have caused by a property of the state, wouldn't it? Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jeff Kuyken Gesendet: Dienstag, 13. April 2010 16:35 An: meteorite list Betreff: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock,not meteorite' http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/special-features/museum-investigates-meteori te-claims/story-e6frg1ac-1225837470139 Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' SCIENTISTS investigating claims a meteor fragment the size of a cricket ball collided into a WA house have confirmed it was almost certainly a rock. The object hit the roof of the home about 4pm on Thursday in the north-eastern Perth suburb of Beechboro. A female occupant thought it was a meteor. The WA Museum today said the object may have fallen from a plane lowering its landing gear. The museum's head of Earth and Planetary Sciences, Dr Alex Bevan, yesterday inspected the object, which he did not suspect was from outer space. Alex did have a look at some photos of the object, but when he did look at it in person, he did not think it was from a meteorite, a museum spokesperson said. Sometimes rocks get caught in the wheels of planes and as they are lowering their gear they may fall, we just don't know. Perth Observatory said it had received a couple of reports on Thursday night from people phoning to say they had seen a light in the sky. At this stage no one seems to be able to put it all together, but if it was a meteor it belongs to the WA Government, observatory astronomer Ralph Martyn said. The reports at this stage are very sketchy. He said the observatory was waiting to inspect a photograph of the object. A lot of people find slag out of glass furnaces and think they are meteorites as well, they kind of look the same. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite'
Any lawyer could argue his way out of this dilema with one simple slip. The meteorite, while falling, is a meteoroid, not a meteorite, hence it is under God's jurisdiction. You, your car, your house, your dead dog (or cow) are not the Earth. The meteorite only becomes a meteorite when it touches the Earth, after killing you, perforating your car, smashing your house, or killing your dog. Then, on the bounce, it touches the Earth and becomes the Property of The State. No harm, no fault. Hand it over, please. Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: ensorama...@ntlworld.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 3:31 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' Interesting thought Martin... I wonder what their position would be regarding a meteorite (that belonged to the state) hitting and injuring/killing somebody? Graham, UK Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: A lot of people find slag out of glass furnaces and think they are meteorites as well, they kind of look the same. Because those people finding real meteorites, lunars and Martians aren't coming to Australia. :-( Why? Because: if it was a meteor it belongs to the WA Government. Other question, would WA Government have paid the fixing of the roof, if it would have been a meteorite? I mean, then the damage would have caused by a property of the state, wouldn't it? Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jeff Kuyken Gesendet: Dienstag, 13. April 2010 16:35 An: meteorite list Betreff: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock,not meteorite' http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/special-features/museum-investigates-meteori te-claims/story-e6frg1ac-1225837470139 Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' SCIENTISTS investigating claims a meteor fragment the size of a cricket ball collided into a WA house have confirmed it was almost certainly a rock. The object hit the roof of the home about 4pm on Thursday in the north-eastern Perth suburb of Beechboro. A female occupant thought it was a meteor. The WA Museum today said the object may have fallen from a plane lowering its landing gear. The museum's head of Earth and Planetary Sciences, Dr Alex Bevan, yesterday inspected the object, which he did not suspect was from outer space. Alex did have a look at some photos of the object, but when he did look at it in person, he did not think it was from a meteorite, a museum spokesperson said. Sometimes rocks get caught in the wheels of planes and as they are lowering their gear they may fall, we just don't know. Perth Observatory said it had received a couple of reports on Thursday night from people phoning to say they had seen a light in the sky. At this stage no one seems to be able to put it all together, but if it was a meteor it belongs to the WA Government, observatory astronomer Ralph Martyn said. The reports at this stage are very sketchy. He said the observatory was waiting to inspect a photograph of the object. A lot of people find slag out of glass furnaces and think they are meteorites as well, they kind of look the same. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite'
Then, on the bounce, it touches the Earth and becomes the Property of The State. So if a meteoroid embeds itself into your car, or you catch it before it hits the ground (ya, improbable as it seems), or if bounces off a cow and you catch it, does it belong to you now since it did not become a meteorite? - YvW On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Any lawyer could argue his way out of this dilema with one simple slip. The meteorite, while falling, is a meteoroid, not a meteorite, hence it is under God's jurisdiction. You, your car, your house, your dead dog (or cow) are not the Earth. The meteorite only becomes a meteorite when it touches the Earth, after killing you, perforating your car, smashing your house, or killing your dog. Then, on the bounce, it touches the Earth and becomes the Property of The State. No harm, no fault. Hand it over, please. Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: ensorama...@ntlworld.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 3:31 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' Interesting thought Martin... I wonder what their position would be regarding a meteorite (that belonged to the state) hitting and injuring/killing somebody? Graham, UK Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: A lot of people find slag out of glass furnaces and think they are meteorites as well, they kind of look the same. Because those people finding real meteorites, lunars and Martians aren't coming to Australia. :-( Why? Because: if it was a meteor it belongs to the WA Government. Other question, would WA Government have paid the fixing of the roof, if it would have been a meteorite? I mean, then the damage would have caused by a property of the state, wouldn't it? Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jeff Kuyken Gesendet: Dienstag, 13. April 2010 16:35 An: meteorite list Betreff: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock,not meteorite' http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/special-features/museum-investigates-meteori te-claims/story-e6frg1ac-1225837470139 Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' SCIENTISTS investigating claims a meteor fragment the size of a cricket ball collided into a WA house have confirmed it was almost certainly a rock. The object hit the roof of the home about 4pm on Thursday in the north-eastern Perth suburb of Beechboro. A female occupant thought it was a meteor. The WA Museum today said the object may have fallen from a plane lowering its landing gear. The museum's head of Earth and Planetary Sciences, Dr Alex Bevan, yesterday inspected the object, which he did not suspect was from outer space. Alex did have a look at some photos of the object, but when he did look at it in person, he did not think it was from a meteorite, a museum spokesperson said. Sometimes rocks get caught in the wheels of planes and as they are lowering their gear they may fall, we just don't know. Perth Observatory said it had received a couple of reports on Thursday night from people phoning to say they had seen a light in the sky. At this stage no one seems to be able to put it all together, but if it was a meteor it belongs to the WA Government, observatory astronomer Ralph Martyn said. The reports at this stage are very sketchy. He said the observatory was waiting to inspect a photograph of the object. A lot of people find slag out of glass furnaces and think they are meteorites as well, they kind of look the same. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http
Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite'
I'd argue that a meteoroid becomes a meteor as soon as becomes incandescent and it becomes a meteorite at instant incandescence ends. -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 --- On Tue, 4/13/10, Yinan Wang veom...@gmail.com wrote: From: Yinan Wang veom...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Tuesday, April 13, 2010, 2:29 PM Then, on the bounce, it touches the Earth and becomes the Property of The State. So if a meteoroid embeds itself into your car, or you catch it before it hits the ground (ya, improbable as it seems), or if bounces off a cow and you catch it, does it belong to you now since it did not become a meteorite? - YvW On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Any lawyer could argue his way out of this dilema with one simple slip. The meteorite, while falling, is a meteoroid, not a meteorite, hence it is under God's jurisdiction. You, your car, your house, your dead dog (or cow) are not the Earth. The meteorite only becomes a meteorite when it touches the Earth, after killing you, perforating your car, smashing your house, or killing your dog. Then, on the bounce, it touches the Earth and becomes the Property of The State. No harm, no fault. Hand it over, please. Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: ensorama...@ntlworld.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 3:31 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' Interesting thought Martin... I wonder what their position would be regarding a meteorite (that belonged to the state) hitting and injuring/killing somebody? Graham, UK Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: A lot of people find slag out of glass furnaces and think they are meteorites as well, they kind of look the same. Because those people finding real meteorites, lunars and Martians aren't coming to Australia. :-( Why? Because: if it was a meteor it belongs to the WA Government. Other question, would WA Government have paid the fixing of the roof, if it would have been a meteorite? I mean, then the damage would have caused by a property of the state, wouldn't it? Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jeff Kuyken Gesendet: Dienstag, 13. April 2010 16:35 An: meteorite list Betreff: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock,not meteorite' http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/special-features/museum-investigates-meteori te-claims/story-e6frg1ac-1225837470139 Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' SCIENTISTS investigating claims a meteor fragment the size of a cricket ball collided into a WA house have confirmed it was almost certainly a rock. The object hit the roof of the home about 4pm on Thursday in the north-eastern Perth suburb of Beechboro. A female occupant thought it was a meteor. The WA Museum today said the object may have fallen from a plane lowering its landing gear. The museum's head of Earth and Planetary Sciences, Dr Alex Bevan, yesterday inspected the object, which he did not suspect was from outer space. Alex did have a look at some photos of the object, but when he did look at it in person, he did not think it was from a meteorite, a museum spokesperson said. Sometimes rocks get caught in the wheels of planes and as they are lowering their gear they may fall, we just don't know. Perth Observatory said it had received a couple of reports on Thursday night from people phoning to say they had seen a light in the sky. At this stage no one seems to be able to put it all together, but if it was a meteor it belongs to the WA Government, observatory astronomer Ralph Martyn said. The reports at this stage are very sketchy. He said the observatory was waiting to inspect a photograph of the object. A lot of people find slag out of glass furnaces and think they are meteorites as well, they kind of look the same. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http
Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite'
After a quick Google and Looking at all of the definitions of what a meteorite is. None of them say when. I think it's safe to say that the WA government has it planned this way and will eventually claim all Lunars as WA property.. As they will argue that the Moon was formed by a collision with Earth's WA region and bounced off. So, by WA law the moon is a meteorite and belongs to them. They will further argue that Earth itself was formed by meteorite collisions 4.6 billion years ago so WA also owns all of the Earth as well as it is just an older meteorite. Thank GOD for lawyers. WA was afraid they were going to miss out on something. sorry but this also makes the Moon a terran (Earth) meteorite doesn't it? -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Yinan Wang veom...@gmail.com wrote: Then, on the bounce, it touches the Earth and becomes the Property of The State. So if a meteoroid embeds itself into your car, or you catch it before it hits the ground (ya, improbable as it seems), or if bounces off a cow and you catch it, does it belong to you now since it did not become a meteorite? - YvW On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Any lawyer could argue his way out of this dilema with one simple slip. The meteorite, while falling, is a meteoroid, not a meteorite, hence it is under God's jurisdiction. You, your car, your house, your dead dog (or cow) are not the Earth. The meteorite only becomes a meteorite when it touches the Earth, after killing you, perforating your car, smashing your house, or killing your dog. Then, on the bounce, it touches the Earth and becomes the Property of The State. No harm, no fault. Hand it over, please. Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: ensorama...@ntlworld.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 3:31 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' Interesting thought Martin... I wonder what their position would be regarding a meteorite (that belonged to the state) hitting and injuring/killing somebody? Graham, UK Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: A lot of people find slag out of glass furnaces and think they are meteorites as well, they kind of look the same. Because those people finding real meteorites, lunars and Martians aren't coming to Australia. :-( Why? Because: if it was a meteor it belongs to the WA Government. Other question, would WA Government have paid the fixing of the roof, if it would have been a meteorite? I mean, then the damage would have caused by a property of the state, wouldn't it? Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jeff Kuyken Gesendet: Dienstag, 13. April 2010 16:35 An: meteorite list Betreff: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock,not meteorite' http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/special-features/museum-investigates-meteori te-claims/story-e6frg1ac-1225837470139 Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' SCIENTISTS investigating claims a meteor fragment the size of a cricket ball collided into a WA house have confirmed it was almost certainly a rock. The object hit the roof of the home about 4pm on Thursday in the north-eastern Perth suburb of Beechboro. A female occupant thought it was a meteor. The WA Museum today said the object may have fallen from a plane lowering its landing gear. The museum's head of Earth and Planetary Sciences, Dr Alex Bevan, yesterday inspected the object, which he did not suspect was from outer space. Alex did have a look at some photos of the object, but when he did look at it in person, he did not think it was from a meteorite, a museum spokesperson said. Sometimes rocks get caught in the wheels of planes and as they are lowering their gear they may fall, we just don't know. Perth Observatory said it had received a couple of reports on Thursday night from people phoning to say they had seen a light in the sky. At this stage no one seems to be able to put it all together, but if it was a meteor it belongs to the WA Government, observatory astronomer Ralph Martyn said. The reports at this stage are very sketchy. He said the observatory was waiting to inspect a photograph of the object. A lot of people find slag out of glass furnaces and think they are meteorites as well, they kind of look the same. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing
Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite'
...and it becomes a meteorite at instant incandescence ends. I've been saying this for years and met resistance every foot of the way. geozay __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite'
Hi Sterling, but then falls like Benld, Glanerbrug or the Barwells in the eaves wouldn't be meteorites in WA. Hmmm let's skip simply that WA-law. Quick Bulletin database search - WA had in the last 18 years only 2 new meteorites. But in the 40 years before 74 new meteorites in WA, So that law was a big bs. And really nobody in WA had any advantage from that. Preschool maths is required to understand that intellectually. Huh and we have to take care that those guys from Perth observatory or that Alex won't be dragged into a comedy show, when once a shower happens there or when the meteorite men are going on air there, that no press articles will be published, asking why exactly in Australia no meteorites are found, in contrast to the rest of the world and in contrast to the times before. Or do we have to wait for the next generations, as Jason suggested it? (But why should they find more meteorites then, if now none are found?) I beg your pardon of all of you, but that law stuff is so silly and I'm waiting for years now, that somebody could explain me, where the advantage of such laws would be, only a single reason, though nobody obviously could so. O Felix America - O Miser Australia! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Sterling K. Webb [mailto:sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net] Gesendet: Dienstag, 13. April 2010 23:07 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Warren Sansoucie; ensoramanda; Martin Altmann Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' Any lawyer could argue his way out of this dilema with one simple slip. The meteorite, while falling, is a meteoroid, not a meteorite, hence it is under God's jurisdiction. You, your car, your house, your dead dog (or cow) are not the Earth. The meteorite only becomes a meteorite when it touches the Earth, after killing you, perforating your car, smashing your house, or killing your dog. Then, on the bounce, it touches the Earth and becomes the Property of The State. No harm, no fault. Hand it over, please. Sterling K. Webb __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite'
That's nearly the definition I use, except... I consider a meteor to be just the luminous aspect, not the body itself. So in my usage, a meteoroid still exists during the meteor phase. That way I can distinguish between the incandescent aspects and the body itself. Chris * Chris L Peterson Cloudbait Observatory http://www.cloudbait.com - Original Message - From: Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 4:07 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock,not meteorite' I'd argue that a meteoroid becomes a meteor as soon as becomes incandescent and it becomes a meteorite at instant incandescence ends. -- Richard Kowalski __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite'
Well, if The State had used the touched the Earth argument to weasel out of State liability but still claim the stone, yes, you could counter- claim ownership if you caught it before it landed. But you'd have to be careful to never drop it outdoors, because at that moment, it would become the property of The State! Back in the real world, meteorite laws are few and vague and meteorite court cases are scarce indeed. In this reality, the State is usually successful in asserting whatever they wish to assert. Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: Yinan Wang veom...@gmail.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 4:29 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock,not meteorite' Then, on the bounce, it touches the Earth and becomes the Property of The State. So if a meteoroid embeds itself into your car, or you catch it before it hits the ground (ya, improbable as it seems), or if bounces off a cow and you catch it, does it belong to you now since it did not become a meteorite? - YvW On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Any lawyer could argue his way out of this dilema with one simple slip. The meteorite, while falling, is a meteoroid, not a meteorite, hence it is under God's jurisdiction. You, your car, your house, your dead dog (or cow) are not the Earth. The meteorite only becomes a meteorite when it touches the Earth, after killing you, perforating your car, smashing your house, or killing your dog. Then, on the bounce, it touches the Earth and becomes the Property of The State. No harm, no fault. Hand it over, please. Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: ensorama...@ntlworld.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 3:31 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' Interesting thought Martin... I wonder what their position would be regarding a meteorite (that belonged to the state) hitting and injuring/killing somebody? Graham, UK Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: A lot of people find slag out of glass furnaces and think they are meteorites as well, they kind of look the same. Because those people finding real meteorites, lunars and Martians aren't coming to Australia. :-( Why? Because: if it was a meteor it belongs to the WA Government. Other question, would WA Government have paid the fixing of the roof, if it would have been a meteorite? I mean, then the damage would have caused by a property of the state, wouldn't it? Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jeff Kuyken Gesendet: Dienstag, 13. April 2010 16:35 An: meteorite list Betreff: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock,not meteorite' http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/special-features/museum-investigates-meteori te-claims/story-e6frg1ac-1225837470139 Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' SCIENTISTS investigating claims a meteor fragment the size of a cricket ball collided into a WA house have confirmed it was almost certainly a rock. The object hit the roof of the home about 4pm on Thursday in the north-eastern Perth suburb of Beechboro. A female occupant thought it was a meteor. The WA Museum today said the object may have fallen from a plane lowering its landing gear. The museum's head of Earth and Planetary Sciences, Dr Alex Bevan, yesterday inspected the object, which he did not suspect was from outer space. Alex did have a look at some photos of the object, but when he did look at it in person, he did not think it was from a meteorite, a museum spokesperson said. Sometimes rocks get caught in the wheels of planes and as they are lowering their gear they may fall, we just don't know. Perth Observatory said it had received a couple of reports on Thursday night from people phoning to say they had seen a light in the sky. At this stage no one seems to be able to put it all together, but if it was a meteor it belongs to the WA Government, observatory astronomer Ralph Martyn said. The reports at this stage are very sketchy. He said the observatory was waiting to inspect a photograph of the object. A lot of people find slag out of glass furnaces and think they are meteorites as well, they kind of look the same. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http
Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite'
In a message dated 4/13/2010 4:29:53 P.M. Central Daylight Time, veom...@gmail.com writes: Then, on the bounce, it touches the Earth and becomes the Property of The State. So if a meteoroid embeds itself into your car, or you catch it before it hits the ground (ya, improbable as it seems), or if bounces off a cow and you catch it, does it belong to you now since it did not become a meteorite? - YvW *** Veomega, As I understand, the St. Louis meteorite hit a car and stayed in it while it was being driven down a city street. On an aside, I don't think the City of St. Louis asserted any claim that it was their property. Steve Arnold of Meteorite Men __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite'
Hi Carl, If Australia has signed the Moon treaty and the Space treaty, then not. I rather think the asteroid belt belongs to China, the Moon to Slovakia and Mars to Algeria. And the rest of the universe to the Philippines. Don't believe in the lunar land sellers, the Moon was once given by Frederick II. of Prussia to Mr. Aul Juergens. So I declare all lunar meteorites and Apollo rocks to be cultural and natural heritage of Germany - as long as no valid export papers are delivered, that they once were legally removes and exported from Moon and imported to Planet Earth. Let's be rather productive and design a meteorite law for Monaco, Andorra and Djibouti. The danger is not negligible that once a meteorite will be found there, and let it be after 2000 years. Slovakia and Denmark sharply recognized that danger and called together the most brilliant minds of their nation, to create a law to handle that danger and these most urgent and important problems of their times. ...sorry I can't help with that task, I have to generate tax money in selling meteorites for paying the fireball camera network, the Aussies got as a gift from the European Union to play with... And it wasn't directly cheap :-) Btw. lunars WA can have. They only have to hire a contract finder. No, we make jokes, but to see the meteoritic decline of Australia is painful for such collectors like me, who started in the beginning of the 1980ies; dear grandchildren, believe it or not, once upon the time, Australia was together with the USA the most important meteorite country of the whole wide world. But then SOMETHING horrible happened! All know about, but they are bound by a curse! The first man or woman in that land, who will name that SOMETHING, will find a Martian meteorite! So we never will get to know, what that SOMETHING was! Also some Australian scientists seem to suffer, I don't have it at hand, but one of them made a proposal for some new meteorite laws in Australia, it's somewhere on internet. So there are still some people of good reason to be found there and maybe not all is lost. Hope dies last. A small step for B. - a giant leap for Australia! And it doesn't cost a thing. (On contrary). Go West, meanwhile! Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von cdtuc...@cox.net Gesendet: Mittwoch, 14. April 2010 00:09 An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Yinan Wang Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' After a quick Google and Looking at all of the definitions of what a meteorite is. None of them say when. I think it's safe to say that the WA government has it planned this way and will eventually claim all Lunars as WA property.. As they will argue that the Moon was formed by a collision with Earth's WA region and bounced off. So, by WA law the moon is a meteorite and belongs to them. They will further argue that Earth itself was formed by meteorite collisions 4.6 billion years ago so WA also owns all of the Earth as well as it is just an older meteorite. Thank GOD for lawyers. WA was afraid they were going to miss out on something. sorry but this also makes the Moon a terran (Earth) meteorite doesn't it? -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Yinan Wang veom...@gmail.com wrote: Then, on the bounce, it touches the Earth and becomes the Property of The State. So if a meteoroid embeds itself into your car, or you catch it before it hits the ground (ya, improbable as it seems), or if bounces off a cow and you catch it, does it belong to you now since it did not become a meteorite? - YvW On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Any lawyer could argue his way out of this dilema with one simple slip. The meteorite, while falling, is a meteoroid, not a meteorite, hence it is under God's jurisdiction. You, your car, your house, your dead dog (or cow) are not the Earth. The meteorite only becomes a meteorite when it touches the Earth, after killing you, perforating your car, smashing your house, or killing your dog. Then, on the bounce, it touches the Earth and becomes the Property of The State. No harm, no fault. Hand it over, please. Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: ensorama...@ntlworld.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 3:31 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' Interesting thought Martin... I wonder what their position would be regarding a meteorite (that belonged to the state) hitting and injuring/killing somebody? Graham, UK Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: A lot of people find slag out
Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite'
Stering, You wrote: In this reality, the State is usually successful in asserting whatever they wish to assert. Yup, that's pretty much the way it is, Sterling. Greg From: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net To: veom...@gmail.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 17:26:46 -0500 Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' Well, if The State had used the touched the Earth argument to weasel out of State liability but still claim the stone, yes, you could counter- claim ownership if you caught it before it landed. But you'd have to be careful to never drop it outdoors, because at that moment, it would become the property of The State! Back in the real world, meteorite laws are few and vague and meteorite court cases are scarce indeed. In this reality, the State is usually successful in asserting whatever they wish to assert. Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: Yinan Wang veom...@gmail.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 4:29 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock,not meteorite' Then, on the bounce, it touches the Earth and becomes the Property of The State. So if a meteoroid embeds itself into your car, or you catch it before it hits the ground (ya, improbable as it seems), or if bounces off a cow and you catch it, does it belong to you now since it did not become a meteorite? - YvW On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Any lawyer could argue his way out of this dilema with one simple slip. The meteorite, while falling, is a meteoroid, not a meteorite, hence it is under God's jurisdiction. You, your car, your house, your dead dog (or cow) are not the Earth. The meteorite only becomes a meteorite when it touches the Earth, after killing you, perforating your car, smashing your house, or killing your dog. Then, on the bounce, it touches the Earth and becomes the Property of The State. No harm, no fault. Hand it over, please. Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: ensorama...@ntlworld.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 3:31 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' Interesting thought Martin... I wonder what their position would be regarding a meteorite (that belonged to the state) hitting and injuring/killing somebody? Graham, UK Martin Altmann altm...@meteorite-martin.de wrote: A lot of people find slag out of glass furnaces and think they are meteorites as well, they kind of look the same. Because those people finding real meteorites, lunars and Martians aren't coming to Australia. :-( Why? Because: if it was a meteor it belongs to the WA Government. Other question, would WA Government have paid the fixing of the roof, if it would have been a meteorite? I mean, then the damage would have caused by a property of the state, wouldn't it? Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jeff Kuyken Gesendet: Dienstag, 13. April 2010 16:35 An: meteorite list Betreff: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock,not meteorite' http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/special-features/museum-investigates-meteori te-claims/story-e6frg1ac-1225837470139 Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' SCIENTISTS investigating claims a meteor fragment the size of a cricket ball collided into a WA house have confirmed it was almost certainly a rock. The object hit the roof of the home about 4pm on Thursday in the north-eastern Perth suburb of Beechboro. A female occupant thought it was a meteor. The WA Museum today said the object may have fallen from a plane lowering its landing gear. The museum's head of Earth and Planetary Sciences, Dr Alex Bevan, yesterday inspected the object, which he did not suspect was from outer space. Alex did have a look at some photos of the object, but when he did look at it in person, he did not think it was from a meteorite, a museum spokesperson said. Sometimes rocks get caught in the wheels of planes and as they are lowering their gear they may fall, we just don't know. Perth Observatory said it had received a couple of reports on Thursday night from people phoning to say they had seen a light in the sky. At this stage no one seems to be able to put it all together, but if it was a meteor it belongs to the WA Government, observatory astronomer Ralph Martyn said. The reports at this stage are very
Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite'
Yes - and we could make very large impenetrable meteor Nets, to catch the meteors before they touch the ground. Greg S. From: meteorh...@aol.com Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2010 18:38:59 -0400 To: veom...@gmail.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Museum investigation: 'Probably a rock, not meteorite' In a message dated 4/13/2010 4:29:53 P.M. Central Daylight Time, veom...@gmail.com writes: Then, on the bounce, it touches the Earth and becomes the Property of The State. So if a meteoroid embeds itself into your car, or you catch it before it hits the ground (ya, improbable as it seems), or if bounces off a cow and you catch it, does it belong to you now since it did not become a meteorite? - YvW *** Veomega, As I understand, the St. Louis meteorite hit a car and stayed in it while it was being driven down a city street. On an aside, I don't think the City of St. Louis asserted any claim that it was their property. Steve Arnold of Meteorite Men __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _ Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your inbox. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_2 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
